GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: Homo Aestheticus on February 02, 2009, 07:57:33 PM

Title: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on February 02, 2009, 07:57:33 PM
This evening I was browsing  Operabase.com  and came across the following:

Composer                  Opera                                 Performances              Productions             Cities  

1. Mozart                    Die Zauberflote                           1083                           167                     115 
2. Mozart                    Don Giovanni                                 855                          147                      115 
3. Verdi                       La Traviata                                  867                             116                     94 
4. Mozart                    Le nozze di Figaro                         717                            129                        104 
5. Puccini                    La Boheme                                  644                              108                       87 
6. Mozart                    Cosi fan tutte                               640                             99                          74 
7. Bizet                       Carmen                                       637                             112                     89 
8. Puccini                    Madama Butterfly                          623                             102                         81 
9. Puccini                   Tosca                                         597                              111                           83 
10. Rossini                    Il barbiere di Siviglia                      585                                89                          76 
11. Verdi                      Rigoletto                                     478                                82                          65 
12. Mozart                   Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serial         373                                 66                             60 
13. Puccini                   Turandot                                     293                                  57                           47 
14. Donizetti                 Lucia di Lammermoor                     291                                  53                           47 
15. Donizetti                 L'elisir d'amore                             297                                   52                            46 
16. Verdi                      Macbeth                                     266                                  51                            35 
17. Wagner                  Der fliegende Holländer                  251                                50                           38 
18. Verdi                      Aida                                          248                                 51                           43 
19. Verdi                      Un Ballo in Maschera                    229                                   38                             35 
20. Leoncavallo             Pagliacci                                   213                                     44                             37 
21. Tchaikovsky            Eugene Onegin                           210                                   43                               35 
22. Verdi                      Il Trovatore                               204                                  36                              34 
23. Puccini                   Manon Lescaut                           203                                   35                                                                       
24. Verdi                      Falstaff                                     202                                 34
25. Verdi                      La Forza del destino                      197                        33                                25 
26. Beethoven               Fidelio                                        195                         37                                   30 
27. Gounod                   Faust                                         192                        44                               38 
28. Verdi                      Otello                                         191                     33                                  30 
29. Mascagni                Cavalleria rusticana                      188                      39                                   33 
30. Strauss                  Die Rosenkavalier                          182                     35                                 30 
31. Rossini                   La Cenerentola                              180                     35                                      33 
32. Gounod                  Romeo et Juliette                          180                        27                                    26 
33. Offenbach              Les contes d'Hoffmann                   177                      35                                   32 
34. Bellini                    Norma                                         172                      34                                     29 
35. Verdi                     Don Carlo                                     171                     36                                 29 
36. Wagner                 Das Rheingold                                171                      49                                     42 
37. Strauss                 Salome                                         160                      38                                    28
38. Janacek                Jenufa                                           134                      28                                     24 
39. Strauss                 Ariadne auf Naxos                           132                      27                                   24 
40. Wagner                Die Walkure                                    130                    44                                  38 
41. Wagner                Tristan und Isolde                          125                     34                                  25 
42. Massenet              Werther                                      123                      29                                25 
43. Rossini                  L'Italiana in Algeri                         120                      25                                  24 
44. Dvorak                  Rusalka                                      119                        21                                    17 
45. Wagner                 Parsifal                                       116                      31                                     21 
46. Strauss                  Elektra                                      114                     27                                  22 
47. Handel                  Giulio Cesare                                109                     21                               19 
48. Weber                  Der Freischutz                              107                    22                                18 
49. Wagner                Lohengrin                                    106                    18                               16 
50. Puccini                 Gianni Schicchi                             101                   22                                21 
51. Donizetti              Don Pasquale                                101                     24                                 22 
52. Tchaikovsky          The Queen of Spades                     101                    23                              15 
53. Mussorgsky            Boris Godunov                             99                       23                                20 
54. Berg                    Wozzeck                                      98                       21                                20 
55. Wagner                Tannhauser 
                                94                    24                                     21 


***************

I seriously need to go and lay down.

:'(   

Pelleas et Melisande  didn't even make the list for crying out loud and yet  Wozzeck  managed to sneak in there at  54.

???

What is going on here ? ? ?  Somebody please tell me there is a technical glitch in there somewhere.

:'(   





Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Brian on February 02, 2009, 08:07:26 PM
Maybe they knew that Pelleas was #56.  ;)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Sarastro on February 02, 2009, 09:12:49 PM
What an odd list. Can't believe Madama is more performed than Tosca. :o
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on February 02, 2009, 09:20:25 PM
Quote from: Sarastro on February 02, 2009, 09:12:49 PM
What an odd list. Can't believe Madama is more performed than Tosca. :o

Yeah, and  Falstaff  more than  Otello, although it is of course Verdi's best opera... (Falstaff that is)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: knight66 on February 02, 2009, 11:48:28 PM
Rusalka and Tristan come out with almost the same number of performances, I find that hard to accept.

Mike
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: T-C on February 03, 2009, 01:04:19 AM
Quote from: knight on February 02, 2009, 11:48:28 PM
Rusalka and Tristan come out with almost the same number of performances, I find that hard to accept.

I am not entirely surprised. Tristan is not an easy opera to cast.

Rusalka is a lovely opera. Good to know it is now performed relatively frequently.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Wendell_E on February 03, 2009, 03:42:57 AM
Quote from: The Unrepentant Pelleastrian on February 02, 2009, 07:57:33 PM
Pelleas et Melisande  didn't even make the list for crying out loud and yet  Wozzeck  managed to sneak in there at  54.

???

What is going on here ? ? ?  Somebody please tell me there is a technical glitch in there somewhere.

:'(   

Face it, man.  Pelléas et Mélisande is just too modernist for most folks.  They prefer operas more in the German Romantic mainstream, like Wozzeck and Tannhäuser.   >:D
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: marvinbrown on February 03, 2009, 04:45:50 AM
Quote from: T-C on February 03, 2009, 01:04:19 AM
I am not entirely surprised. Tristan is not an easy opera to cast.


  Agreed ! I mean how often does a singer like Kristen Flagstaad come along  0:)!  It does not surprise me that Wagner's operas are not topping the list, the vocal demands and the length make them difficult to cast and stage.  Also I think box office success  ::) yes money (the root fo all evil) governs how many performances operas get.  Need i remind everyone here that at one point in the history of opera Gonoud's Faust was the most performed opera ever  ::)- when in doubt perform Faust- I think Wagner just turned in his grave!!

  marvin   
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Wendell_E on February 03, 2009, 05:33:28 AM
I think that the fact that there are a lot of opera houses in smaller German towns that aren't really on the international circuit, but have a rather adventurous (and Germanic) repertory probably skews this list somewhat.  So upcoming performances of Wozzeck are listed for Gera, Innsbruck (I know, it's in Austria, not Germany.  Still), Koblenz, Mainz, Meiningen, and Regensburg with singers and conductors that probably never get mentioned here.  The only "major" house with an upcoming Wozzeck is Munich.

I think this also explains Die Zauberflöte being no. 1.  Sure, it's popular, but no. 1??
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: marvinbrown on February 03, 2009, 08:26:34 AM


  WHAT?? There is no mention of Wagner's Die Meistersinger  :o. This is upsetting  :( most upsetting  >:( >:(!

  Am I to believe that the average opera goer is so musically simple minded so as to necessitate so many productions of the Magic Flute  >:( yes I love the Magic Flute but technically speaking is this  lighthearted (admittedly great) sing-speil really an opera I ask you??

    marvin
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on February 03, 2009, 09:37:38 AM
I hear you Marvin, but it is hard to compete with a work such as 'Die Zauberlote' that appeals to both children and adults and which has so many catchy melodies, no ?
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: ChamberNut on February 03, 2009, 10:05:50 AM
Looks like people like their saccharine Puccini.  :P
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on February 03, 2009, 10:13:09 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on February 03, 2009, 10:05:50 AMLooks like people like their saccharine Puccini.  :P

It is disappointing to see so many performances of  Tosca  but don't knock Mr. Puccini; he wrote some mighty fine operas.   :)

Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on February 03, 2009, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: Wendell_E on February 03, 2009, 03:42:57 AMFace it, man.  Pelléas et Mélisande is just too modernist for most folks. 

They prefer operas more in the German Romantic mainstream, like Wozzeck and Tannhäuser.   >:D

Too modernist    ???

If you were to take a group of opera newbies and expose them to both  Wozzeck  and  Pelleas  I would assume that 99 percent of them would gravitate towards  P&M  if only for its harmonic textures.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on February 05, 2009, 06:09:26 AM
Quote from: marvinbrown on February 03, 2009, 08:26:34 AM

  WHAT?? There is no mention of Wagner's Die Meistersinger   This is upsetting   most upsetting 

  Am I to believe that the average opera goer is so musically simple minded so as to necessitate so many productions of the Magic Flute  >:( yes I love the Magic Flute but technically speaking is this  lighthearted (admittedly great) sing-speil really an opera I ask you??

On the other hand :

"I don't think it's such a great loss to Israeli audiences," he added. "I still conduct Wagner in other places around the world, but there are many other things that are worthwhile to conduct here"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123335355844034825.html




Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Tsaraslondon on February 06, 2009, 10:41:51 AM
I'm surprised Norma comes in as high as 34. There was a whole topic dedicated to casting this opera on the board recently, and the conclusion was that it was uncastable today. Much more difficult to cast than either Tristan or The Ring.

Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 06:16:32 AM
Quote from: The Unrepentant Pelleastrian on February 05, 2009, 06:09:26 AM

"I don't think it's such a great loss to Israeli audiences," he added. "I still conduct Wagner in other places around the world, but there are many other things that are worthwhile to conduct here"


Speaking of Wagner, I happen to agree after taking a course on him quite a few years ago. My term paper was the "Plagarization of Christian Symbolism in Parsifal". After delving deeply into that, I don't have much sympathy for its "purity of the blood" and lesser races including women that are supposed to "serve" (dienen). In a word, I think it is perverse. Music might be beautiful but it is connected to not only words but ideas here. And Wagner himself put them together.

But more than that, the question of having to spend so much money on intricate, lavish operas in countries that can ill afford it, oh well, this must satisfy someone's need for a cultural fix and/or pomp and ceremony. A friend of mine went to see Boito's "Mephistophele" and also questioned the absolute need for such extravaganzas.

About the list, it looks like the Italians account for about 50% and are more represented in the upper half.

ZB
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Josquin des Prez on February 11, 2009, 11:24:11 AM
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 06:16:32 AM
My term paper was the "Plagarization of Christian Symbolism in Parsifal". After delving deeply into that, I don't have much sympathy for its "purity of the blood" and lesser races including women that are supposed to "serve" (dienen). In a word, I think it is perverse.

Ho wow, so this is what Wagner subjects are all about? I never delved too deep into his dramatic side, i only focused on the music up to now. Please, tell me more.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 11, 2009, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: marvinbrown on February 03, 2009, 08:26:34 AM

  WHAT?? There is no mention of Wagner's Die Meistersinger  :o. This is upsetting  :( most upsetting  >:( >:(!

It is probably his most expensive opera to produce, but I would have expected a higher standing. Maybe it was 57.

But the list is meaningless unless it tells you the time frame involved, and you have some indication of the opera houses covered.

By comparison, this is a list of the Top 55 from the Metropolitan Opera since its inception, with dates of first and last performance:

1200 La Bohème 11/09/1900 04/18/2008
1103 Aida 11/12/1886 11/08/2007
945 Carmen 01/05/1884 03/01/2008
943 La Traviata 11/05/1883 03/22/2008
891 Tosca 02/04/1901 12/02/2006
818 Madama Butterfly 02/11/1907 10/27/2007
815 Rigoletto 11/16/1883 12/22/2006
733 Faust 10/22/1883 06/22/2007
705 Pagliacci 12/11/1893 02/10/2007
665 Cavalleria Rusticana 12/04/1891 02/10/2007

618 Lohengrin 11/07/1883 05/06/2006
599 Il Trovatore 10/26/1883 02/21/2003
574 Il Barbiere di Siviglia 11/23/1883 02/29/2008
569 Lucia di Lammermoor 10/24/1883 03/13/2008
518 Die Walküre 01/30/1885 02/09/2008
500 Don Giovanni 11/28/1883 06/23/2006
470 Tannhäuser 11/17/1884 12/18/2004
449 Tristan und Isolde 12/01/1886 03/28/2008
441 Le Nozze di Figaro 01/31/1894 12/01/2007
408 Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg 01/04/1886 03/13/2007

387 Die Zauberflöte 03/30/1900 11/24/2007
369 Der Rosenkavalier 12/09/1913 04/02/2005
322 Roméo et Juliette 04/16/1884 12/31/2007
314 Otello 11/23/1891 03/08/2008
288 Parsifal 12/24/1903 05/18/2006
287 Un Ballo in Maschera 12/11/1889 04/23/2008
282 La Gioconda 12/20/1883 10/21/2006
270 Turandot 11/16/1926 05/08/2007
264 Boris Godunov 03/19/1913 02/14/2004
257 Manon 01/16/1895 04/08/2006

252 Siegfried 11/09/1887 05/06/2004
252 L'Elisir d'Amore 01/23/1904 05/20/2006
248 Hänsel und Gretel 11/25/1905 01/31/2008
240 Les Contes d'Hoffmann 01/11/1913 01/08/2005
230 La Forza del Destino 11/15/1918 03/23/2006
230 Fidelio 11/19/1884 04/13/2006
226 Samson et Dalila 02/08/1895 03/02/2006
221 Götterdämmerung 01/25/1888 05/08/2004
215 Manon Lescaut 01/18/1907 02/23/2008
209 Die Fledermaus 02/16/1905 01/07/2006

190 Don Carlo 12/23/1920 12/23/2006
179 Andrea Chénier 03/01/1921 04/18/2007
175 Falstaff 02/04/1895 10/22/2005
171 Così Fan Tutte 03/24/1922 01/28/2006
150 Salome 01/22/1907 04/10/2004
149 Das Rheingold 01/04/1889 05/03/2004
147 Norma 02/27/1890 12/07/2007
147 Der Fliegende Holländer 11/27/1889 12/20/2000
131 Gianni Schicchi 12/14/1918 05/12/2007
129 Les Huguenots 03/19/1884 04/26/1915

128 Simon Boccanegra 01/28/1932 03/09/2007
128 Eugene Onegin 03/24/1920 03/03/2007
124 Don Pasquale 12/23/1899 04/28/2006
116 Martha 01/04/1884 02/03/1968
110 Mignon 10/31/1883 05/18/1949


Wozzeck is #83, with 60 performances between 03/05/1959 and 01/06/2006 (but note the time frame). Wanna know what 56 is? I swear I'm not making this up:

109 Pelléas et Mélisande 03/21/1925 02/08/2005  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: zamyrabyrd on February 11, 2009, 08:48:36 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on February 11, 2009, 11:24:11 AM
Ho wow, so this is what Wagner subjects are all about? I never delved too deep into his dramatic side, i only focused on the music up to now. Please, tell me more.

So as not to risk infuriating the Wagnerites here, I would probably have to PM you about the source material. I don't know if I still have a book written by a woman on Parsifal that connects up his racial diatribes with "purity of the blood" in that opera and most of the other symbolism. Wagner didn't exactly disguise his intentions, although, at times he embedded them deeply enough so even the Metropolitan Opera for years staged Parsifal on Good Friday!!! I don't know if ignorance is an excuse but a monastic devotion to "purity of blood" is an abomination which of course completely perverts the idea of Christian communion.

In my readings back then (1993), I came across Cosima's probable role in pushing Wagner to even greater extremes than he may have gone by himself. She was the one who disapproved of the conductor Levi. She seemed to be a real piece of work. I also read that she refused to see her father, Liszt, for an extended period of time, I think, for two years. It seems she more than aided and abetted any cultism around her husband and his works.

ZB
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: springrite on February 12, 2009, 01:04:43 AM
If this is any consolation, the number of performances is no indicator of quality.

For me, for the most part, the popularity ranking is within reasonable range. We can all state our own personal preferences, but the popularity ranking is not about any one person's personal taste, and one needs to take into account casting, cost of production, etc. Once a production is made, it is less costly to repeat it later.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: zamyrabyrd on February 12, 2009, 08:36:16 PM
Quote from: springrite on February 12, 2009, 01:04:43 AM
If this is any consolation, the number of performances is no indicator of quality.


I could not agree more. Also to add, lavishness of a production, gimmckry (various stages of undress, kinkiness), the pomp and circumstance of going to view "opera" as a cultural fix, the problem of language--the confusion of having two going at the same time, the original (sometimes garbled by locals) and a running text translation to be dutifully read (educational value!), a lot of bad singing (but most people don't know the difference anyway), which allegedly necessitates bringing in big names to attract attention but carries a huge bill, and last but not least, the musical and social irrelevance of operas (on the list precious few, if any, from our own time) that when composed had some relevance and resonance of current social values whether the Court or outside it--all this and more causes me to question this huge dinosaur of opera the way it is still presented in the 21st century.

ZB
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Homo Aestheticus on February 12, 2009, 10:11:38 PM
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on February 12, 2009, 08:36:16 PMAlso to add,

1. Lavishness of a production, gimmckry (various stages of undress, kinkiness).

2. The pomp and circumstance of going to view "opera" as a cultural fix,

3. The original (sometimes garbled by locals) and a running text translation to be dutifully read (educational value!)

***

Indeed...  And the above 3 are always exasperating in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: springrite on February 13, 2009, 06:01:56 AM
Quote from: marvinbrown on February 13, 2009, 05:44:57 AM

Somebody please get Daniel Barenboim on the phone so he can slap some sense into Stern!! 



That will make Danny Marvin's Sung Hero. ;D
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: ChamberNut on February 13, 2009, 06:02:29 AM
Marvin,

Long time no see!  Good to hear from you.  :)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: marvinbrown on February 13, 2009, 06:10:46 AM
Quote from: KammerNuss on February 13, 2009, 06:02:29 AM
Marvin,

Long time no see!  Good to hear from you.  :)

  I have been travelling a lot on business and have been absent for some time from GMG.  It's good to be back to discuss opera, Wagner of course, Verdi, Puccini etc al.   Puccini's Turandot is playing in London and I believe there is an English spoken (yes I know I am not thrilled about that!) production of La Boheme to start soon.  I'll have to see about getting tickets  8)!!

  marvin
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Bulldog on February 13, 2009, 06:15:47 AM
Quote from: marvinbrown on February 13, 2009, 05:44:57 AM

  Asked by a reporter whether he had any plans to program the operas of Richard Wagner in Tel Aviv, David Stern answered in the negative. "I don't think it's such a great loss to Israeli audiences," he added. "I still conduct Wagner in other places around the world, but there are many other things that are worthwhile to conduct here."

Warning: my reaction to the above quotation is bound to upset some GMG members but I write this with all honesty:

  What?? either David Stern is deaf (which I am quite sure he is not) or he is just a two faced liar and a cheat!  So he doesn't think that the ban on Wagner in Israel is "such a great loss to Israeli audiences" !Well Mr. Stern, I would like to ask you then why are you bothering to conduct Wagner elsewhere?   His statement is insulting to all opera fans and especially those in Israel who know what GREAT opera music is!  Not a great loss to Israeli audiences?? Please!  David stern knows that Wagner wrote the greatest operas in the repertoire and yet he panders to Jewish extremists set out to vilify Wagner!  Somebody please get Daniel Barenboim on the phone so he can slap some sense into Stern!! 

  Apologies are in order if this post has insulted anyone  $:)!

  marvin

I don't feel insulted, but I do think that Marvin's views are a little over-the-top (likely due to his passion for Wagner's operas.  Whether no Wagner is a great or small loss to Israeli audiences is an opinion; there's no basis for referring to Stern as a liar and cheat. 
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: marvinbrown on February 13, 2009, 06:58:52 AM
Quote from: Bulldog on February 13, 2009, 06:15:47 AM
I don't feel insulted, but I do think that Marvin's views are a little over-the-top (likely due to his passion for Wagner's operas.  Whether no Wagner is a great or small loss to Israeli audiences is an opinion; there's no basis for referring to Stern as a liar and cheat. 

  I can always rely on Don  8) for the sensible approach.  Perhaps I have been over the top in my criticism of Stern but here is a great opera composer, (albeit controversial) whose works have been sensored because of his very bad reputation.  I am just against all censorship especially when great works of art are at stake.  Let the Israeli public decide what they want to see and hear that's all I am saying.  When Daniel Barenboim asked the Israeli audience if they would like to hear Wagner the majority said yes. So let the public decide and let those who feel offended leave given prior notice.

  marvin
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Bulldog on February 13, 2009, 07:02:59 AM
Quote from: marvinbrown on February 13, 2009, 06:58:52 AM
  I can always rely on Don  8) for the sensible approach.  Perhaps I have been over the top in my criticism of Stern but here is a great opera composer, (albeit controversial) whose works have been sensored because of his very bad reputation.  I am just against all censorship especially when great works of art are at stake.  Let the Israeli public decide what they want to see and hear that's all I am saying.  When Daniel Barenboim asked the Israeli audience if they would like to hear Wagner the majority said yes. So let the public decide and let those who feel offended leave given prior notice.

  marvin

That sounds most reasonable.  Israel certainly has an extreme reaction to Wagner, probably due to the nation's "survival protection" mentality.  Hopefully, its citizens are able to enjoy Wagner's music through recordings.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Tsaraslondon on February 13, 2009, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: marvinbrown on February 13, 2009, 05:44:57 AM

  Wagner wrote the greatest operas in the repertoire

  marvin

Well that is a debatable point, Marvin. Some of the greatest operas in the repertoire, I warrant you, but, in my opinion, and the opinion of many others, Monteverdi, Handel, Mozart and Verdi wrote some that were at least as great.

Nice to see you back by the way.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: marvinbrown on February 13, 2009, 04:43:33 PM
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on February 13, 2009, 09:46:28 AM
Well that is a debatable point, Marvin. Some of the greatest operas in the repertoire, I warrant you, but, in my opinion, and the opinion of many others, Monteverdi, Handel, Mozart and Verdi wrote some that were at least as great.

Nice to see you back by the way.

  Yes Mozart and Verdi are also personal favorites of mine. But I view their operas differenly than those of Wagner.  Wagner's works are titanic works of art, and admittedly not very easy to digest nor stage for that matter,  which leads to fewer productions- but there is so much high quality music in practcally every opera Wagner wrote it saddens me that performances of his operas are not as many as they should be.  I find myself having to rely on DVD recordings of Wagnerian works which is a shame.  On the other hand you live in the UK it is quite easy to find a Verdi, Mozart, Puccini opera playing in theater near you!!

  PS: It's good to be back  :D!
  marvin
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Guido on July 15, 2010, 02:00:57 PM
Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serial is no.12? What the hell?
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Wendell_E on July 16, 2010, 02:54:41 AM
Quote from: Guido on July 15, 2010, 02:00:57 PM
Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serial is no.12? What the hell?

I imagine that includes performances at lots of small German theatres.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: False_Dmitry on July 16, 2010, 03:37:37 AM
Quote from: Wendell_E on February 03, 2009, 03:42:57 AM
Face it, man.  Pelléas et Mélisande is just too modernist for most folks.

And too dull.  Synopsis - "nothing happens, but it takes 2.5 hours to happen".  Lovely music, undoubtedly.  Great on disc.  Box office poison.

I'm not at all surprised by the list at all,  although I might have expected Janacek to have scored more highly.  What the public will come to in the theatre,  and what cd-buyers will purchase are two very different things.  Collectors will buy opera rarities to try them.  Audiences can rarely be tempted to theatres on the same basis. 

When I worked at ENO, George Harewood famously said "If all we want is full houses and that's our only criterion, then do BOHEME, TRAVIATA, DUTCHMAN, AIDA, MAGIC FLUTE, PORGY & BESS, FIGARO, and PATIENCE.  We'd need extra box-office staff to cope.  But we don't work like that, do we?"

Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: The new erato on July 16, 2010, 03:42:58 AM
Quote from: Guido on July 15, 2010, 02:00:57 PM
Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serial ...

Does that mean escape from the serial killer in English? No wonder it draws people at the box office!
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: kishnevi on July 16, 2010, 01:35:11 PM
Quote from: Wendell_E on July 16, 2010, 02:54:41 AM
I imagine that includes performances at lots of small German theatres.

There was a production here in Miami a couple of years ago; one of those that's shared with other opera companies around the country, so think of several performances in seveal American theatres.  Perhaps that's reflected in the figure.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on July 16, 2010, 06:12:43 PM
Quote from: erato on July 16, 2010, 03:42:58 AM
Does that mean escape from the serial killer in English? No wonder it draws people at the box office!

Especially since it's written in a totally serial idiom.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Superhorn on July 19, 2010, 07:40:54 AM
   Blaming Wagner for WW2 and the holocaust makes about as much sense as blaming Christ for the Spanish Inquisition. It's not his fault that Hitler appropriated him and his music for his nefarious purposes.
  Although Wagner disliked Jews and Judaism,it should be remembered that he never advocated genocide against them or any other group of people. His anti-semitism, as reprehensible as it was, never came remotely close to the maniacal evil of Hitler and the Nazis.
  It's understandable that Wagner's music is unofficially banned in Israel. There are still some holocaust survivors   there who heard Wagner's music blasted constantly from louspeakers during their horrible confinment, and it brings back unbearable meories to them.
  But Wagner is not to blame for this.
   And you should remember that Wagner's immortal Ring of the Nibelungen is NOT a glorification of Nazi ideology. Far from being this,it shows how Wotan and the gods are destroyed by lust for power and riches.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Franco on July 19, 2010, 07:50:39 AM
Quote from: Superhorn on July 19, 2010, 07:40:54 AM
   Blaming Wagner for WW2 and the holocaust makes about as much sense as blaming Christ for the Spanish Inquisition. It's not his fault that Hitler appropriated him and his music for his nefarious purposes.
  Although Wagner disliked Jews and Judaism,it should be remembered that he never advocated genocide against them or any other group of people. His anti-semitism, as reprehensible as it was, never came remotely close to the maniacal evil of Hitler and the Nazis.
  It's understandable that Wagner's music is unofficially banned in Israel. There are still some holocaust survivors   there who heard Wagner's music blasted constantly from louspeakers during their horrible confinment, and it brings back unbearable meories to them.
  But Wagner is not to blame for this.
   And you should remember that Wagner's immortal Ring of the Nibelungen is NOT a glorification of Nazi ideology. Far from being this,it shows how Wotan and the gods are destroyed by lust for power and riches.

While I would not go so far as to blame Wagner for Hitler, I also do not give him a complete pass for his ideas.  Wagner could have been a Nazi had he lived during that period and I certainly have no need to excuse him this toxic character flaw merely because he wrote some good operas.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: DavidRoss on July 19, 2010, 08:28:48 AM
What is it about Wagner that attracts such devoted proselytizers?  I cannot ever recall having seen, here or elsewhere, fans of any other composer making such vigorous efforts forcefully convert others to their faith as seems routine with a significant subset of Wagner lovers.  I swear that many of them seem quite willing to use the same tactics Hitler used with Poland if only they could! 

(Whoops.  I momentarily forgot about "E L G A R" and a similarly deranged Schumann fan on another site I used to frequent.)

The typical posts (or blog entries!) go something like this:  Wagner's the greatest ever, period, it's self evident, everyone with any sense knows it, and if you don't agree then you're just stupid--with tin ears!  It's hard to imagine those who greatly admire the music of Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Sibelius, Brahms, Debussy (well, that's a bit iffy!), or Poulenc going on in similar fashion (though, come to think of it, I have encountered two or three fans of the Darmstadt school who seem to be copying the Wagner fans' playbook).

Any ideas why this should be so?  (Note that I don't believe it has anything to do with anti-Semitism among Wagner's devotees.)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: BMW on July 19, 2010, 09:05:40 AM
Quote from: DavidRoss on July 19, 2010, 08:28:48 AM
What is it about Wagner that attracts such devoted proselytizers?  I cannot ever recall having seen, here or elsewhere, fans of any other composer making such vigorous efforts forcefully convert others to their faith as seems routine with a significant subset of Wagner lovers.  I swear that many of them seem quite willing to use the same tactics Hitler used with Poland if only they could! 

(Whoops.  I momentarily forgot about "E L G A R" and a similarly deranged Schumann fan on another site I used to frequent.)

The typical posts (or blog entries!) go something like this:  Wagner's the greatest ever, period, it's self evident, everyone with any sense knows it, and if you don't agree then you're just stupid--with tin ears!  It's hard to imagine those who greatly admire the music of Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Sibelius, Brahms, Debussy (well, that's a bit iffy!), or Poulenc going on in similar fashion (though, come to think of it, I have encountered two or three fans of the Darmstadt school who seem to be copying the Wagner fans' playbook).

Any ideas why this should be so?  (Note that I don't believe it has anything to do with anti-Semitism among Wagner's devotees.)

Wagner may have the most vehement defenders because he also has the most vehement attackers.  And unfortunately so much of the debate is the result of events he did not even witness.  Yes he was anti-Semitic, as were many others, including other much beloved composers (which is not to serve as an excuse for idea, just to put it in context).  The debate about his music will always be influenced by the fact that it does not seem possible to have it without being influenced by so much extramusical material.  Wagner set himself up for this fate by putting so many of his thoughts down on paper.  This practice could also contribute to the devoted proselytizing you ask about -- Wagner was constantly justifying his work and there are some today who have just taken up the torch.

Or it could simply be because Wagner is in fact the greatest ever.  It is self evident, everyone with any sense knows it, and anyone who does not agree is just stupid -- and has tin ears!  ;)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: DavidRoss on July 19, 2010, 09:20:43 AM
A belated welcome to the forum, Beemer!  It's wonderfully refreshing to encounter a Wagnerite with a sense of humor!  (Or perhaps you're not really a true devotee, grovelling at the feet of The Master, for they seem to have had their senses of humor excised, at least where Little Dickie is concerned!  Hmmm, makes me wonder which came first:  the surgical removal of the humor sites in the brain, or the Wagner worship? Oh, well, in either case it's what makes them so much fun to play with!)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Franco on July 19, 2010, 09:31:10 AM
QuoteYes he was anti-Semitic, as were many others, including other much beloved composers (which is not to serve as an excuse for idea, just to put it in context). 

Like who?  I can't think of any who were as outspoken as Wagner.  My opinion of his music has nothing to do with his anti-Semitism, but everything to do with the actual sound of the music.  But, I will, maybe once a decade, sit down and listen to one of his operas and end up getting something positive out of the experience.  The 2000s were taken care of last year with Das Rhiengold.  I've the next ten years to find time for Siegfried.

His is not an art I have much fondness for, but I can understand the appeal.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: BMW on July 19, 2010, 10:57:38 AM
Quote from: Franco on July 19, 2010, 09:31:10 AM
Like who?  I can't think of any who were as outspoken as Wagner. 

Exactly.  Chopin and Liszt have both been accused of being "casual" anti-Semites, but neither of them left behind pages and pages on the subject that others could use to their own ends.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: BMW on July 19, 2010, 11:01:13 AM
Quote from: DavidRoss on July 19, 2010, 09:20:43 AM
A belated welcome to the forum, Beemer!  It's wonderfully refreshing to encounter a Wagnerite with a sense of humor!  (Or perhaps you're not really a true devotee, grovelling at the feet of The Master, for they seem to have had their senses of humor excised, at least where Little Dickie is concerned!  Hmmm, makes me wonder which came first:  the surgical removal of the humor sites in the brain, or the Wagner worship? Oh, well, in either case it's what makes them so much fun to play with!)

:D
I am definitely a fan but cannot deny enjoying a little Anna Russell now and then.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Walther von Stolzing on July 19, 2010, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: Franco on July 19, 2010, 09:31:10 AM
Like who?  I can't think of any who were as outspoken as Wagner.

Frankly, the history of German literature from the Enlightenment to the fall of the Third Reich is a despicable catalog of anti-Jewish sentiment. Sympathizers were rare. In varying degrees both major and minor figures expressed hostility to or contempt for the Jews: The Grimm Brothers, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Karl Marx, and even Martin Luther who railed against the Jews and proposed the burning of their synagogues. Franz Liszt was another composer who was not inhibited in his expressions of anti-Semitism. In a publication of 1881, The Gypsy in Music, he termed the Jews "sullen, servile, cruel and avaricious."

The reality is that in countless ways he was an entirely characteristic symptom of his age, reflecting it's outlook, its prejudices and its neuroses. This in no way excuses his words, and I do not forgive him for them because of my appreciation of his music. Besides, the person he ended up hurting more than anyone else was himself and his legacy. However, his anti-Semitism is totally unimportant for an understanding and appreciation of his art.

Nevertheless, it is indeed important for an understanding of the man. It was a significant expression of his emotional make-up. And I think the more you learn about the sources of his particular brand of anti-Semitism, the less scary it becomes, and the less connected to the anti-Semitic movement of the 1870s and eventually to the attitudes of the Nazis it appears. Saying he would have been a part of the Nazi movement if he were around 50 years after his death is not only pure unfounded speculation, but doesn't add up with the facts of his life. Wagner's anti-Semitic attitude, writings, and comments did not appear until his late 30s. This was not some deep embedded prejudice from his youth. It seems that to Wagner his connection with the successful Jewish opera composer Giacomo Meyerbeer brought the misfortune that many people, friends included, had received the impression that he had something in common with Meyerbeer artistically. That notion had brought Wagner to despair and caused him to demonstrate publicly his distance from his former patron. His negative opinion of Meyerbeer was formed independently of his being a Jew, but he then used that fact to base his attack and argument against Meyerbeer's art. The artistic inferiority of Meyerbeer was not just an opinion, but a fact, because it was the product of a member of an inferior race. So see, Wagner used the common anti-Semitic outlooks and  speech of the time as the stick to beat Meyerbeer with. But after his infamous essay was published, it had the effect of creating a sort of paranoia in Wagner himself. He used it to explain any setbacks and failures he had in his life, and to explain harsh comments and reviews by members of the press. He started to believe it was their way at getting back at him for publishing his essay. Behind every obstacle, he truly believed was a Jew in hiding. And soon his outlook became that any opponent of his was a Jew.

Yet while he now had complete contempt for Jews as an abstract concept, he never became anything close to a Nazi. When the representatives of the anti-Semitic movement that arose in the 1870s came in hopes that they could claim Wagner as a famous herald of their doctrine, and asked him to sign a petition to the Reichstag protesting the recent grant of full rights of citizenship to Jews, twice he refused explaining that such actions were not really his style, that he preferred to just write, and to leave such mundane things to others. Never did he refuse the help or friendship of anyone because he or she was a Jew, or on any other racial or religious ground. He judged all individuals by their artistic talent and/or their understanding of himself and his aims. He was often surrounded by Jews aiding him in completing and staging his works, much to the consternation of others with a more practical hatred of Jews. That his name was later used as a central symbol of the anti-Jewish movement is no surprise, and a consequence of his writings. Again, his legacy suffers most of all from it. But to burden him with the actions of others is going too far.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Franco on July 19, 2010, 11:34:29 AM
Quote from: Walther von Stolzing on July 19, 2010, 11:19:04 AM
Frankly, the history of German literature from the Enlightenment to the fall of the Third Reich is a despicable catalog of anti-Jewish sentiment.

Splendid. 

I am not blaming Wagner for the actions of others - he has plenty enough to answer for merely for being responsible for his music.  I am acknowledging that whether or not you consider it just, his writings and the esteem surrounding his name offered the Nazis a patina of legitimacy for their noxious ideology.  If Wagner would rather spend his time writing his operas as opposed to joining an anti-Jewish group, the reason you cited was not because he found their mission deplorable, just a distraction from time spent writing his next work of genius - faint praise, IMO.

You can admire Wagner all you want.  I don't have a dog in that hunt, I'm expressing my own view about his reputation - which even if he were a Jew lover his music would still not be to my tastes.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Walther von Stolzing on July 19, 2010, 11:53:18 AM
Quote from: Franco on July 19, 2010, 11:34:29 AM
I am acknowledging that whether or not you consider it just, his writings and the esteem surrounding his name offered the Nazis a patina of legitimacy for their noxious ideology.

Obviously. And for that Wagner should be held accountable, no doubt. Yet is there ultimately any legitimizing the Nazis' ideology and their actions? I think not.

QuoteIf Wagner would rather spend his time writing his operas as opposed to joining an anti-Jewish group, the reason you cited was not because he found their mission deplorable, just a distraction from time spent writing his next work of genius - faint praise, IMO.

Faint praise it may be. What I was suggesting is that he way he wrote and spoke was often at odds with the way he lived, and he is hardly the monster many make him out to be.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Bulldog on July 19, 2010, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: Franco on July 19, 2010, 11:34:29 AM
Splendid. 

I am not blaming Wagner for the actions of others - he has plenty enough to answer for merely for being responsible for his music.  I am acknowledging that whether or not you consider it just, his writings and the esteem surrounding his name offered the Nazis a patina of legitimacy for their noxious ideology.  If Wagner would rather spend his time writing his operas as opposed to joining an anti-Jewish group, the reason you cited was not because he found their mission deplorable, just a distraction from time spent writing his next work of genius - faint praise, IMO.

Come on, Franco.  That was not the reason cited by Walther, not that it matters much.  This going back and forth about Wagner's anti-semetic views is getting very old and always was a waste of time as it has nothing to do with the man's musical artistry.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 19, 2010, 12:00:24 PM
Quote from: Bulldog on July 19, 2010, 11:56:01 AM
Come on, Franco.  That was not the reason cited by Walther, not that it matters much.  This going back and forth about Wagner's anti-semetic views is getting very old and always was a waste of time as it has nothing to do with the man's musical artistry.

Very true. If Franco wants to, he can join ME and just say "ya know, I don't get much out of his music so I am not going to waste my time with it any more". Antisemitism be damned anyway, if you don't like something you don't need that sort of reason. There's a bunch of music I don't like and not a hint of anti-anything in sight. :)

8)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Franco on July 19, 2010, 12:34:06 PM
I do listen to Wagner some, rarely, but I do listen to him more than Mahler or Bruckner, two composers with no hint of Antisemitism that I am aware of.  I suppose I listen to Wagner more than them because I am a fan of opera.  I get tired of the apologists, is all.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Maciek on July 19, 2010, 02:53:20 PM
Just a gentle reminder here that this isn't a thread dedicated to Wagner's anti-semitism, or anti-semitism in general.

(So, as much as I feel inclined to have my say as well, I will abstain.)

Currently listening to Purcell's Fairy Queen, which I don't see on the list, BTW.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Spineur on January 29, 2017, 05:53:46 AM
I ran again the top 50 most performed operas on opera.com database and this is what it came with

1   1   it (#1)   Verdi (#1)    La traviata    4190   (869)
2   2   at (#1)   Mozart (#1)    Die Zauberflote    3310   (561)
3   3   fr (#1)   Bizet (#1)    Carmen    3280   (691)
4   4   it (#2)   Puccini (#1)    La boheme    3131   (672)
5   5   it (#3)   Puccini (#2)    Tosca    2694   (608)
6   6   it (#4)   Puccini (#3)    Madama Butterfly    2641   (634)
7   7   it (#5)   Rossini (#1)    Il barbiere di Siviglia    2549   (591)
8   8   at (#2)   Mozart (#2)    Le nozze di Figaro    2483   (545)
9   9   at (#3)   Mozart (#3)    Don Giovanni    2299   (473)
10   10   it (#6)   Verdi (#2)    Rigoletto    2285   (523)
11   11   at (#4)   Strauss,J (#1)    Die Fledermaus    2207   (393)
12   12   it (#7)   Verdi (#3)    Aida    1639   (392)
13   13   de (#1)   Humperdinck (#1)    Hansel und Gretel [c]   1629   (299)
14   14   it (#8)   Donizetti (#1)    L'elisir d'amore    1574   (378)
15   15   at (#5)   Mozart (#4)    Cosi fan tutte    1538   (364)
16   16   ru (#1)   Tchaikovsky,P (#1)    Eugene Onegin    1522   (347)
17   17   it (#9)   Verdi (#4)    Nabucco    1280   (314)
18   18   it (#10)   Puccini (#4)    Turandot    1225   (255)
19   19   hu (#1)   Lehar (#1)    Die lustige Witwe    1202   (223)
20   20   it (#11)   Verdi (#5)    Il trovatore    1053   (285)
21   21   it (#12)   Leoncavallo (#1)    Pagliacci    1012   (252)
22   22   hu (#2)   Kalman,E (#1)    Die Csardasfurstin    1007   (177)
23   23   it (#13)   Verdi (#6)    Otello    985   (224)
24   24   de (#2)   Wagner,R (#1)    Der fliegende Hollander    957   (216)
25   25   it (#14)   Verdi (#7)    Un ballo in maschera    931   (210)
26   26   it (#15)   Donizetti (#2)    Lucia di Lammermoor    913   (247)
27   27   at (#6)   Mozart (#5)    Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail    855   (163)
28   28   it (#16)   Rossini (#2)    La cenerentola    854   (176)
29   29   it (#17)   Verdi (#8)    Macbeth    793   (183)
30   30   it (#18)   Verdi (#9)    Falstaff    759   (158)
31   31   fr (#2)   Offenbach (#1)    Les contes d'Hoffmann    730   (145)
32   32   it (#19)   Mascagni (#1)    Cavalleria rusticana    725   (198)
33   33   it (#20)   Donizetti (#3)    Don Pasquale    705   (159)
34   34   cz (#1)   Dvorak,A (#1)    Rusalka    641   (113)
35   35   it (#21)   Verdi (#10)    Don Carlos    635   (136)
36   36   fr (#3)   Gounod (#1)    Faust    567   (126)
37   37   de (#3)   Beethoven (#1)    Fidelio    560   (111)
38   38   de (#4)   Strauss,R (#1)    Der Rosenkavalier    548   (105)
39   39   hu (#3)   Kalman,E (#2)    Grafin Mariza    535   (90)
40   40   de (#5)   Strauss,R (#2)    Salome    512   (110)
41   41   it (#22)   Puccini (#5)    Gianni Schicchi    502   (133)
42   42   it (#23)   Bellini (#1)    Norma    491   (125)
43   43   de (#6)   Wagner,R (#2)    Lohengrin    490   (101)
44   44   de (#7)   Wagner,R (#3)    Tristan und Isolde    489   (132)
45   45   at (#7)   Benatzky (#1)    Im weissen Rossl    488   (63)
46   46   de (#8)   Gluck (#1)    Orfeo ed Euridice    485   (112)
47   47   de (#9)   Weber (#1)    Der Freischutz    453   (72)
48   48   ru (#2)   Tchaikovsky,P (#2)    Pikovaya Dama    438   (119)
49   49   de (#10)   Wagner,R (#4)    Tannhauser    433   (102)
50   50   de (#11)   Strauss,R (#3)    Ariadne auf Naxos    431   (95)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Spineur on January 29, 2017, 05:56:00 AM
Has anybody seen

Kalman,E (#1)    Die Csardasfurstin    1007   (177)
Kalman,E (#2)    Grafin Mariza    535   (90)
Benatzky (#1)    Im weissen Rossl    488   (63)

I havent even heard of them...
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: knight66 on January 29, 2017, 07:01:06 AM
Quote from: Spineur on January 29, 2017, 05:56:00 AM
Has anybody seen

Kalman,E (#1)    Die Csardasfurstin    1007   (177)
Kalman,E (#2)    Grafin Mariza    535   (90)
Benatzky (#1)    Im weissen Rossl    488   (63)

I havent even heard of them...

I was taken aback at these. Perhaps these are the total repertoire of a German light misic theatre which is performing twice daily 365 days a year. I was surprised at how high up the list Nabucco is, I have hardly ever seen it listed for performance in the UK and I have seen it only once.

Mike
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on January 29, 2017, 08:50:11 AM
Can't possibly be correct...I would think there would be more Wagner...like Walkure or Tristan.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Spineur on January 29, 2017, 09:55:19 AM
What biases the statistics are indeed the very large number of small opera houses performing operas in germany.  There is something like 6700 performances in Germany, roughly 40% of worldwide performances.  So you see what there are showing: Hansel and Gretel around christmas time, Die Fledermaus etc.  Is Wagner so popular in today Germany ?  These statistics seem to say not so much anymore.

I dont know if there is a way to substract Germany from the statistics.  I give it a try when I have time (need to prepare for next week work).
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: knight66 on January 29, 2017, 10:01:19 AM
Wagner is a hugh investment for an opera company and Tristan is there. Getting the singers is a real problem and my guess is that, as Spineur has indicated, the operetta will be from German/Austrian Folkopera houses.

Mike
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: mc ukrneal on January 29, 2017, 10:13:44 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on January 29, 2017, 08:50:11 AM
Can't possibly be correct...I would think there would be more Wagner...like Walkure or Tristan.
Well, I would not expect to see Wagner's Ring high on the list (or any of its components). Think about how the Ring is performed- Often four days (sometimes in a row, sometimes spaced out), each opera on one night and maybe 1-3 runs of the cycle. And that is it. So to get any of the Ring operas on the list would require it to be performed separately, and they rarely are. And they require an enormous number of singers, so not something smaller houses can logistically (or monetarily) support easily.

I have both Kalman operettas on disc - wonderful stuff...
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Jo498 on January 29, 2017, 01:00:34 PM
Quote from: knight66 on January 29, 2017, 07:01:06 AM

Kalman,E (#1)    Die Csardasfurstin    1007   (177)
Kalman,E (#2)    Grafin Mariza    535   (90)
Benatzky (#1)    Im weissen Rossl    488   (63)

I was taken aback at these. Perhaps these are the total repertoire of a German light misic theatre which is performing twice daily 365 days a year. I was surprised at how high up the list Nabucco is, I have hardly ever seen it listed for performance in the UK and I have seen it only once.

It is more like dozens of (often smallish) theatres in Germany and Austria (and maybe occasionally also Hungary, Czech republic, Switzerland?) having one of them every few years I'd say. Same for Fledermaus and Lustige Witwe (I think these two are by far the most popular operettas) and Hänsel and Gretel (although for this one one needs a fairly big orchestra, so the smaller theatres are not going do to it).

This could be seen as skewed but if Spineur's numbers are correct, it would also give a very skewed perspective to leave out the many performances in Germany.

FWIW I have not seen any of these three but "Im weissen Rössl" (a silly, somewhat ironic piece that contains several "hit tunes" that became very popular) is given in the current season at the theatre closest to where I live and Konwitschny created a big scandal in Dresden in 1999 with a controversial staging of The Csardasfürstin)

And of course the reason for relatively few Wagner stagings/performances is that the small provincial theatres do not have the means for his works, not lack of popularity. (Although there is certainly a section of the audience who is happy to see Kalman or Strauss operetta (or Zauberflöte or Barbiere) but finds Wagner too heavy; they are probably dying out but they are still there.)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: André on January 29, 2017, 07:08:56 PM
Konwitschny died in 1962  ???. I doubt very much he could possibly have caused a stir in 1999.   :)

It's been said (I heard it twice on the Saturday Met broadcasts) that the "ABC of opera"  for a company was Aïda, Bohème and Carmen. This is certainly borne out by the Met's own statistics.

The figures are surprising, but not that much. Any smallish, amateur company can stage Zauberflöte. With good reason of course: it's a great piece and it works well with all audiences, including children. Provided you can import a suitable coloratura for the Queen of the Night of course.

Actually if you look at the top 12 on that list, these operas are performed the world over. Whereas Pelléas, Wozzeck, Moses un Aron, Dialogues des Carmélites (heard this week in Montréal), From the House of the Dead, Boris Godunov are sparsely represented on the international opera houses programs, despite their fame.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Jo498 on January 30, 2017, 12:00:00 AM
It was of course the conductor's son Peter Konwitschny who is an opera director. Sorry, but I assumed that he was known as such, apparently not outside central Europe.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Marc on January 30, 2017, 08:53:17 AM
Quote from: Spineur on January 29, 2017, 05:56:00 AM
Has anybody seen

Kalman,E (#1)    Die Csardasfurstin    1007   (177)
Kalman,E (#2)    Grafin Mariza    535   (90)
Benatzky (#1)    Im weissen Rossl    488   (63)

I havent even heard of them...

Really?
Especially Die Csárdásfürstin is a major operetta hit.

Have fun!

https://www.youtube.com/v/E5y9ufSC1r4
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Jo498 on January 30, 2017, 10:40:13 AM
Some hit tunes probably known from singer's recitals of the 1930s-60s, easily findable at youtube with great singers from that period (if you check the youtube channel addiobelpassato you can drown yourself in that stuff)

Gräfin Mariza:
Komm, Zigan, komm, Zigan, spiel mir was vor
Komm mit nach Varasdin
Wenn es Abend wird... Grüß mir mein Wien
Einmal möcht ich wieder tanzen

Csardasfürstin:

Machen wir's den Schwalben nach
Tanzen möcht' ich, jauchzen möcht' ich
Ganz ohne Weiber geht die Chose nicht
Nimm Zigeuner deine Geige

As you can see, the topics are often close: love, love sickness, nostalgia, walzer, fiddling hungarian gypsies... but the music is often not so bad if taken in small doses...
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Figleaf on January 30, 2017, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: Sarastro on February 02, 2009, 09:12:49 PM
What an odd list. Can't believe Madama is more performed than Tosca. :o

I wonder if that's because the Japanese setting makes it more suited to minimalist (i.e. cheapo) sets. When I saw MB at Covent Garden there was just a bare black stage with a paper Japanese screen on it - at least, that was all that I could see from my restricted-view seat. In contrast, Tosca surely demands something more splendid and thus expensive... Agreed about the merits of the two works.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: knight66 on January 30, 2017, 11:08:15 AM
Joe, Thanks, all excellent points.

Mike
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: André on January 30, 2017, 11:11:22 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 30, 2017, 12:00:00 AM
It was of course the conductor's son Peter Konwitschny who is an opera director. Sorry, but I assumed that he was known as such, apparently not outside central Europe.

Sorry, I had no clue  :-[. . The only "son of" I know is Giancarlo Del Monaco. My bad.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: The new erato on January 30, 2017, 11:50:23 AM
Quote from: Spineur on January 29, 2017, 05:56:00 AM
Has anybody seen

Kalman,E (#1)    Die Csardasfurstin    1007   (177)
Kalman,E (#2)    Grafin Mariza    535   (90)
Benatzky (#1)    Im weissen Rossl    488   (63)

I havent even heard of them...
I have them all on disc. Very enjoyable and happy-go-lucky music.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Jo498 on January 30, 2017, 12:29:02 PM
In the newer stats Tosca is before Butterfly; I don't think such slight differences need special hypotheses for explanation.

These usual suspects by Puccini, Verdi, Rossini, Donizetti, Mozart as well as Carmen (which has often been claimed as most popular and most widely played/staged opera) have been fairly stable in the top 20 for quite a while, I believe. Although I admit that I am puzzled at Nabucco before Trovatore, Otello and some other placements, so I would not want to deny some strange fluctuations.

More interesting than this is certainly the huge dropoff in popularity for some German language operas outside of German-speaking countries. Zauberflöte seems to work best internationally, then probably Abduction/Entführung and Fidelio but Hänsel and Gretel, Freischütz and stuff like the operettas mentioned above seem to be largely restricted to the Germanosphere.
It is maybe not quite like Gilbert and Sullivan or Zarzuela but close and it is understandable that not all kinds of music and musical theatre travel equallly well. The same goes probably for some Russian (Rimsky and Glinka are not frequently staged in the West) and maybe also Czech operas. Not sure about the French beyond Carmen and Offenbach (and he was actually a German Jew); French Opera had very special traditions as we all know but I am not sure how much of this applies today.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Spineur on January 30, 2017, 02:04:18 PM
Hi Jo,

As soon as I find time I will run the statistics by country.  This should be interesting.  What are the most popular operas in the US, UK, germany, France...  I am pretty curious.
I dont think I will be able to do Japan as they are not covered completly.

To be followed
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on January 30, 2017, 04:11:57 PM
Quote from: Spineur on January 30, 2017, 02:04:18 PM
Hi Jo,

As soon as I find time I will run the statistics by country.  This should be interesting.  What are the most popular operas in the US, UK, germany, France...  I am pretty curious.
I dont think I will be able to do Japan as they are not covered completly.

To be followed
Don't know about other countries but this is a list for the Metropolitan Opera in NYC. Number 2 on the list is Aida, or grand opera epitomized. Also on the top 25 are such big productions like Die Walkure, Tristan, Lohengrin, Tannhauser, Meistersinger. Suffice to say NY audiences like their Wagner.
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Marc on January 30, 2017, 10:31:09 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 30, 2017, 10:40:13 AM
[...] but the music is often not so bad if taken in small doses...

Exactly my feelings about the genre, too.
One of my faves is "Hör' ich Zymbalklänge" from Léhar's Zigeunerliebe: "immer kann der Mensch nicht traurig sein"!

:)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Wendell_E on January 31, 2017, 03:20:37 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on January 30, 2017, 04:11:57 PM
Don't know about other countries but this is a list for the Metropolitan Opera in NYC. Number 2 on the list is Aida, or grand opera epitomized. Also on the top 25 are such big productions like Die Walkure, Tristan, Lohengrin, Tannhauser, Meistersinger. Suffice to say NY audiences like their Wagner.

Or liked, anyway.  Those statistics go back to the Met's opening in 1882, so they include periods when Wagner was a much bigger presence at the Met than he's been recently. Take Lohengrin, the most often performed opera at the Met: It falls between Barbiere and Lucia in number of performances (I also include the next two most-performed operas at the Met, to get the second-most performed Wagner):

622 Il Barbiere di Siviglia
618 Lohengrin
599 Lucia di Lammermoor
556 Don Giovanni
537 Die Walküre

But if we limit it to the last 50 years:

309 Il Barbiere di Siviglia
86 Lohengrin
240 Lucia di Lammermoor
287 Don Giovanni
139 Die Walküre

There hasn't been a Met Lohengrin in the last decade, though I'm guessing their Robert Wilson production is partly to blame. And the Wieland Wagner production from the opening season of the New Met (i.e., the beginning of the fifty-year period) wasn't a great success, and disappeared after two seasons.

Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Spineur on January 31, 2017, 04:37:43 AM
Quote from: Spineur on January 30, 2017, 02:04:18 PM
Hi Jo,

As soon as I find time I will run the statistics by country. 
To be followed
Sorry, it doe not appear possible.  It is possible to find the most performed operas worldwide by composers of a specific nationality, but not performed in a specific country.
Here are a few.  The first number on the right is the number of performances, the second the number of productions.  I ran only a few countries.  Overall, Italian operas are still the KING

ITALIAN OPERAS
it (#1)   Verdi (#1)    La traviata    4190   (869)
it (#2)   Puccini (#1)    La boheme    3131   (672)
it (#3)   Puccini (#2)    Tosca    2694   (608)
it (#4)   Puccini (#3)    Madama Butterfly    2641   (634)
it (#5)   Rossini (#1)    Il barbiere di Siviglia    2549   (591)
it (#6)   Verdi (#2)    Rigoletto    2285   (523)
it (#7)   Verdi (#3)    Aida    1639   (392)
it (#8)   Donizetti (#1)    L'elisir d'amore    1574   (378)
it (#9)   Verdi (#4)    Nabucco    1280   (314)
it (#10)   Puccini (#4)    Turandot    1225   (255)

AUSTRIAN OPERAS

at (#1)   Mozart (#1)    Die Zauberflote    3310   (561)
at (#2)   Mozart (#2)    Le nozze di Figaro    2483   (545)
at (#3)   Mozart (#3)    Don Giovanni    2299   (473)
at (#4)   Strauss,J (#1)    Die Fledermaus    2207   (393)
at (#5)   Mozart (#4)    Cosi fan tutte    1538   (364)
at (#6)   Mozart (#5)    Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail    855   (163)
at (#7)   Benatzky (#1)    Im weissen Rossl    488   (63)
at (#8)   Mozart (#6)    La clemenza di Tito    302   (65)
at (#9)   Strauss,J (#2)    Der Zigeunerbaron    293   (58)
at (#10)   Mozart (#7)    Idomeneo re di Creta    276   (62)

GERMAN OPERAS
de (#1)   Humperdinck (#1)    Hansel und Gretel [c]   1629   (299)
de (#2)   Wagner,R (#1)    Der fliegende Hollander    957   (216)
de (#3)   Beethoven (#1)    Fidelio    560   (111)
de (#4)   Strauss,R (#1)    Der Rosenkavalier    548   (105)
de (#5)   Strauss,R (#2)    Salome    512   (110)
de (#6)   Wagner,R (#2)    Lohengrin    490   (101)
de (#7)   Wagner,R (#3)    Tristan und Isolde    489   (132)
de (#8)   Gluck (#1)    Orfeo ed Euridice    485   (112)
de (#9)   Weber (#1)    Der Freischutz    453   (72)
de (#10)   Wagner,R (#4)    Tannhauser 433   (102)

RUSSIAN OPERAS

ru (#1)   Tchaikovsky,P (#1)    Eugene Onegin    1522   (347)
ru (#2)   Tchaikovsky,P (#2)    Pikovaya Dama    438   (119)
ru (#3)   Musorgsky (#1)    Boris Godunov    409   (109)
ru (#4)   Tchaikovsky,P (#3)    Iolanta    395   (105)
ru (#5)   Borodin (#1)    Prince Igor    294   (79)
ru (#6)   Stravinsky (#1)    The Rake's Progress    257   (52)
ru (#7)   Prokofiev (#1)    The Love for Three Oranges    233   (47)
ru (#8)   Rimsky-Korsakov (#1)    The Tsar's Bride    213   (73)
ru (#9)   Shostakovich (#1)    Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk    213   (42)
ru (#10)   Stravinsky (#2)    Le Rossignol    119   (28)


FRENCH OPERAS

fr (#1)   Bizet (#1)    Carmen    3280   (691)
fr (#2)   Offenbach (#1)    Les contes d'Hoffmann    730   (145)
fr (#3)   Gounod (#1)    Faust    567   (126)
fr (#4)   Bizet (#2)    Les Pecheurs de perles    377   (110)
fr (#6)   Offenbach (#2)    Orphee aux enfers    363   (76)
fr (#7)   Gounod (#2)    Romeo et Juliette    309   (109)
fr (#8)   Debussy (#1)    Pelleas et Melisande    265   (73)
fr (#9)   Poulenc (#1)    La Voix humaine    242   (80)
fr (#10)   Poulenc (#2)    Dialogues des Carmelites    241   (49)

CZECH OPERAS

cz (#1)   Dvorak,A (#1)    Rusalka    641   (113)
cz (#2)   Smetana (#1)    Prodana nevesta    416   (73)
cz (#3)   Janacek (#1)    Jenufa    371   (79)
cz (#4)   Janacek (#2)    The Cunning Little Vixen    356   (68)
cz (#5)   Janacek (#3)    Kat'a Kabanova    209   (61)
cz (#6)   Janacek (#4)    Vec Makropulos    154   (36)
cz (#7)   Nedbal (#1)    Polenblut    83   (15)
cz (#8)   Dvorak,A (#2)    Jakobin    62   (8)
cz (#9)   Ivanovic (#1) Carokraj    57   (6)
cz (#10)   Martinu (#1)    Juliette    52   (7)

UNITED KINGDOM

uk (#1)   Handel (#1)    Giulio Cesare in Egitto    273   (44)
uk (#2)   Handel (#2)    Alcina    271   (55)
uk (#3)   Britten (#1)    The Turn of the Screw    252   (64)
uk (#4)   Britten (#2)    Peter Grimes    250   (51)
uk (#5)   Britten (#3)    A Midsummer Night's Dream    235   (46)
uk (#6)   Purcell (#1)    Dido and Aeneas    223   (78)
uk (#7)   Purcell (#2)    King Arthur    162   (30)
uk (#8)   Handel (#3)    Serse    159   (36)
uk (#9)   Purcell (#3)    The Fairy Queen    143   (40)
uk (#10)   Britten (#4)    The Rape of Lucretia    140   (44)

UNITED STATES

us (#1)   Korngold (#1)    Die tote Stadt    180   (29)
us (#2)   Gershwin (#1)    Porgy and Bess    172   (24)
us (#3)   Bernstein (#1) Candide    146   (30)
us (#4)   Menotti (#1)    Amahl and the Night Visitors [c]   87   (25)
us (#5)   Bernstein (#2) Trouble in Tahiti 69   (19)
us (#6)   Barab (#1)    Little Red Riding Hood [c]   64   (3)
us (#7)   Menotti (#2)    The Telephone 61   (28)
us (#8)   Glass (#1)    Satyagraha 55   (7)
us (#9)   Heggie (#1) Dead Man Walking    51   (14)
us (#10)   Glass (#2) The Fall of the House of Usher 51   (10)

JAPAN

Hosokawa (#1) Matsukaze    23   (6)
jp (#2)   Hosokawa (#2)  Hanjo    15   (3)
jp (#3)   Osada (#1) Son of Heaven    12   (1)
jp (#4)   Matsumura (#1)    Silence    9   (2)
jp (#5)   Fujikura (#1) Solaris    7   (3)
jp (#7)   Dan (#1)    Yuzuru    5   (3)
jp (#8)   Hosokawa (#4)   Stilles Meer    5   (1)
jp (#9)   Ikebe (#1) Rokumeikan    4   (1)
jp (#10)   Narita (#1) [f]   Yume    3   (2)
Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: Jo498 on January 31, 2017, 05:47:21 AM
Yes, I found this confusing when I used operabase some years ago. Because first I thought "fr (#1)" meant the most-performed opera in France, not the most-performed by a French composer. And the nationalities are also confusing, even misleading, because most people tend to think of operas in terms of language, not the nationality of the composer, especially if it is adopted nationalities like Korngold. When he wrote "Die tote Stadt" Korngold was Austrian and the opera language is German, so this is not an American opera by any stretch. Similarly for Handel, whose operas belong to the Italian baroque, not the German or British.

One could probably get the stats for some countries from other sources, e.g. here for Germany from 2006/07 until 13/14. To get a better idea one should consider the column "Inszenierungen" (stagings) because e.g. L'italiana in Algeri is on 16 with 81 performances but they are from only 2 different stagings (or maybe there were also some unstaged performances). In any case in the list linked below the rather high placements of L'italiana, Nabucco, Werther and Nicolais Merry Wives of Windsor are somewhat surprising to me (And Peter & the wolf is not an opera...how does it get into the list). I miss Mozart's Entführung and Beethoven's Fidelio and am sure they would be top 30 in a long term statistics. Apparently they left out operettas, otherwise Fledermaus would have been up there.

http://www.miz.org/intern/uploads/statistik22.pdf

The top 10 are not surprising, though:

Zauberflöte
Hänsel & Gretel
La Boheme
La Traviata
Nozze di Figaro
Tosca
Don Giovanni
Cosi fan tutte
Carmen
Rigoletto

Title: Re: The Top 55 Most Performed Operas
Post by: knight66 on February 01, 2017, 04:53:03 AM
You would not get much info searching Scotland for this current year. From Jan Scottish Opera will do Bluebeard, Peleas, a new piece, The Trial, a Ravel in concert then a run of almost 40 performances of Mozart's Figaro. This is what happens when the company is left to struggle, not even a sniff for the once full time opera chorus and some of the Mozart is travelling chamber opera style. So the orchestra is not fully employed now either.

Mike