Composers you have disliked for as long as you have been a music-lover, composers you have dismissed and even abused with fredquency, and composers who had caused physical pain when you last listened...
Hey! Maybe time have changed? Maybe you have changed? Maybe it is time to be more open-minded and give the fella another chance, and give yourself another chance at opening up your horizon?
For me, right now:
John harbison: Ulysse's Bow
Sounds like a great idea, Paul! :)
Quote from: springrite on February 03, 2013, 06:27:14 AM
Composers you have disliked for as long as you have been a music-lover, composers you have dismissed and even abused with fredquency, and composers who had caused physical pain when you last listened...
NO! NO! ...please don't make me listen to Stockhausen!
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 03, 2013, 07:05:29 AM
NO! NO! ...please don't make me listen to Stockhausen!
Sarge
???
With that statement, the image of a bazooka-toting gritty veteran of Vietnam dissipates into thin air. :'(
Quote from: Opus106 on February 03, 2013, 07:13:44 AM
???
With that statement, the image of the bazooka-toting gritty veteran of Vietnam dissipates into thin air. :'(
Yeah, it's lucky I was never captured by the enemy. It would have been easy to break me: just play the Helicopter Quartet on repeat.
sarge
I listened to 4 discs of Delius yesterday and found a few works I liked (the Cello Sonata, Sea Drift), aside from that and a couple of isolated movements here and there, I found much of the rest to be inoffensive sonic wallpaper, just as I remembered it. But I count the works I mention here as signs it wasn't a total waste of time.
Disc 2-5 of this set:
[asin]B005SBR76Q[/asin]
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 03, 2013, 07:15:23 AM
Yeah, it's lucky I was never captured by the enemy. It would have been easy to break me: just play the Helicopter Quartet on repeat.
sarge
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wtDvuAkNgGI/UNE6VhQ2cKI/AAAAAAAAocs/bIlKaoZcHH8/s1600/apocalypse-now2.jpg)
They aren't coming over to play Wagner.
Quote from: Opus106 on February 03, 2013, 07:21:01 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wtDvuAkNgGI/UNE6VhQ2cKI/AAAAAAAAocs/bIlKaoZcHH8/s1600/apocalypse-now2.jpg)
They aren't coming over to play Wagner.
The horror...the horror....
Sarge
Quote from: Opus106 on February 03, 2013, 07:21:01 AM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wtDvuAkNgGI/UNE6VhQ2cKI/AAAAAAAAocs/bIlKaoZcHH8/s1600/apocalypse-now2.jpg)
They aren't coming over to play Wagner.
That looks like a HIP performance (4 helicopters). :laugh:
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 03, 2013, 07:27:27 AM
The horror...the horror....
Sarge
That's what I said after watching
Last Tango in Paris.
Feb. is "What the hell, I'll give it a try" month!
Does this only imply music? :o
;D
Good idea, Paul!
Will perhaps return to several modern pieces I listened to when I was younger and hated to see how my attitudes have changed since. :)
Quote from: The new erato on February 03, 2013, 07:20:12 AMI found much of the rest to be inoffensive sonic wallpaper
Much how I feel about Mozart and Bach. :-\ Just background noise with no distinction or purpose.
Personally, I'm preparing myself for the Ives Of March! Will definitely be giving this great composer some attention next month.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 03, 2013, 07:58:46 AM
Much how I feel about Mozart and Bach. :-\ Just background noise with no distinction or purpose.
Why not give one composition each from those two a try (again) this month? Bach's Cello Suite #1 and Mozart's Clarinet Quintet, say...
Quote from: springrite on February 03, 2013, 08:04:43 AM
Why not give one composition each from those two a try (again) this month? Bach's Cello Suite #1 and Mozart's Clarinet Quintet, say...
I guess I could listen on YouTube. I don't own
any of Bach's music and the only Mozart I own are a few recordings of his
Requiem and the Bohm box set of symphonies on DG.
The most popular composers I tend to neglect are Tchaikovsky and Mahler. It's not a dislike, or a lack of respect for their abilities, it's just an uninterested feeling.
César Franck, what seems to be his most well-known piece (Symphony in D minor) has never grabbed my attention, and neither has anything else.
I'm very split on British composers...Byrd, Purcell, Elgar, Britten I adore. Holst, Bax, Walton, Delius I don't give much time too.
Ravel is another one whom I know the work, but have never felt compelled to return to.
Bach and Haydn I don't mess with, and not the ones you may be thinking, C.P.E. and Michael. ;)
Let me say that I am no way downgrading these composers, it's more of a I would rather not listen to them.
But instead of diving into a bunch of works, I would be willing to "What the hell, I'll give it a try" with the right recommendations, preferably pieces that I have not heard (The Planets, Bolero, etc..).
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 03, 2013, 08:10:31 AM
The most popular composers I tend to neglect are Tchaikovsky and Mahler. It's not a dislike, or a lack of respect for their abilities, it's just an uninterested feeling.
César Franck, what seems to be his most well-known piece (Symphony in D minor) has never grabbed my attention, and neither has anything else.
I'm very split on British composers...Byrd, Purcell, Elgar, Britten I adore. Holst, Bax, Walton, Delius I don't give much time too.
Ravel is another one whom I know the work, but have never felt compelled to return to.
Bach and Haydn I don't mess with, and not the ones you may be thinking, C.P.E. and Michael. ;)
Let me say that I am no way downgrading these composers, it's more of a I would rather not listen to them.
But instead of diving into a bunch of works, I would be willing to "What the hell, I'll give it a try" with the right recommendations, preferably pieces that I have not heard (The Planets, Bolero, etc..).
Get a BPO Digital Concert Hall ticket and listen to Nelsons' Ravel La Valse, Greg! It's incredible! La Valse is just such an incredible work. I would also recommend the piano concerti to you for Ravel. But I'm not quite sure which works you have heard so far?
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 03, 2013, 07:58:46 AM
Much how I feel about Mozart and Bach. :-\ Just background noise with no distinction or purpose.
I didn't say noise. If there actually was some noise (aka dynamics, tension, contrast) in it, I would like it much better. It's pretty but too much of it doesn't
go anywhere. And just note that I found two works with some personality that I actually like there. That's a breakthrough for me.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 03, 2013, 08:10:31 AM
César Franck, what seems to be his most well-known piece (Symphony in D minor) has never grabbed my attention, and neither has anything else.
Ravel is another one whom I know the work, but have never felt compelled to return to.
Greg, I hope you will revisit both of these marvelous French composers. They are so bloody awesome.
Maybe try some of the chamber works for Franck, and some of the orchestral works by Ravel? :)
Franck
Sonata for violin and piano
Piano Quintet
String Quartet
Ravel (orch.)
Ma Mere l'Oye
Daphnis et Chloe
Piano Concertos
Le Tombeau de Couperin
Ravel (chamber)
String Quartet
Piano Trio
Introduction et allegro for harp and strings
For what it's worth Greg, I have yet to listen to Franck's Symphony. I must do this in 2013! :)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 03, 2013, 08:10:31 AM
I'm very split on British composers...Byrd, Purcell, Elgar, Britten I adore. Holst, Bax, Walton, Delius I don't give much time too.
...
Let me say that I am no way downgrading these composers, it's more of a I would rather not listen to them.
You can respect a composer's originality and seminal influence, without liking the music. With me, it's Mozart I'm sorry to say.
Out of the 2nd names in your list above, I'd suggest
Holst is very under-rated (perhaps because his Planets may seem overrated or at least overexposed). His output's rather limited, but what there is sounds a bit ahead of its time to me.
Quote from: The new erato on February 03, 2013, 08:20:20 AM
I didn't say noise. If there actually was some noise (aka dynamics, tension, contrast) in it, I would like it much better. It's pretty but too much of it doesn't go anywhere. And just note that I found two works with some personality that I actually like there. That's a breakthrough for me.
That's the beauty of Delius' a lot of his music: the journey is its' own reward. Too much Delius, for many, can be fatal like a drug overdose. For me, there's so much depth to the music and the way it can subtly change harmonically is, quite simply, nothing short than marvelous. But I'm certainly glad you found some works you enjoy, erato.
Maybe I can find something I enjoy by Bach or Mozart? Who knows, stranger things have happened.
Mirror John's gonna give me a nasty look for saying this, but I guess this means that for me, February will be devoted to... Bartok ??? ???
Monkey Greg, for Ravel a safe bet is Boulez: the three DG CDs (Daphnis, Bolero, concertos w/ Zimerman) are my faves. :) But if you want your port of entry to be Ravel's "dark side," the disturbing side of his music rather than the velvety ballet side, you should start with the left-hand piano concerto and Gaspard de la nuit. Ravel's in my personal top five so...
I'm working on it John, and you give a good explanation for why you like it. After 40 years of listening to classical music I still discover works I didn't know I liked (last case: Mendelssohn's Elijah); that's the wonder of it. With 40 years (?) of listening in front of you and an open mind, I wouldn't discount the possibility that you will find something in Bach or Mozart and look back in amusement on some of your posts.
While Bach was an instant hit with me, with Mozart it took me 30 years to discover that "there's so much depth to the music and the way it can subtly change harmonically is, quite simply, nothing short than marvelous". Before that it often (though there were exceptions like Don Giovanni) seemed simply like "too little was happening". But it does, to the open mind.
Quote from: Brian on February 03, 2013, 08:52:39 AM
Mirror John's gonna give me a nasty look for saying this,
You mean the Mirror Man?:
(http://img12.nnm.ru/9/1/a/4/3/91a432da6af487f48b4dde2a6ed827c6_full.jpg)
Quote from: springrite on February 03, 2013, 06:27:14 AM
Composers you have disliked for as long as you have been a music-lover, composers you have dismissed and even abused with fredquency, and composers who had caused physical pain when you last listened...
Hey! Maybe time have changed? Maybe you have changed? Maybe it is time to be more open-minded and give the fella another chance, and give yourself another chance at opening up your horizon?
For me, right now:
John harbison: Ulysse's Bow
No! NO! This is a TERRIBLE idea. This means I will have to listen to
SCHOENBERG and his 12 Tone cronies again. Oh well. What the hell. I'll give him ANOTHER try. It may be a different experience altogether this time due to much improved audio hardware (even if it is 19 years old!) and speaker placements in my home. In fact, I'm turning off the news on TV right now and I'm going to try it, perhaps the new acoustical experience will turn me around. I have had oodles of help and suggestions in my quest to understand and appreciate his music, I will revisit those helpful posts and listen and see what happens.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T4EClyBPC0Q/T-n_8b5BeNI/AAAAAAAAHYs/MURKJGutDlk/s1600/Schoenberg+Matrix.jpg)
My ever ongoing nemesis...
Quote from: Brian on February 03, 2013, 08:52:39 AM
Mirror John's gonna give me a nasty look for saying this, but I guess this means that for me, February will be devoted to... Bartok ??? ???
Excellent, Brian! One of my favorite composers. I could never give anybody a nasty look for
trying to get into music that they haven't connected with yet.
Quote from: Scots John on February 03, 2013, 09:00:05 AM
No! NO! This is a TERRIBLE idea. This means I will have to listen to SCHOENBERG and his 12 Tone cronies again. Oh well. What the hell. I'll give him ANOTHER try. It may be a different experience altogether this time due to much improved audio hardware (even if it is 19 years old!) and speaker placements in my home. In fact, I'm turning off the news on TV right now and I'm going to try it, perhaps the new acoustical experience will turn me around. I have had oodles of help and suggestions in my quest to understand and appreciate his music, I will revisit those helpful posts and listen and see what happens.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T4EClyBPC0Q/T-n_8b5BeNI/AAAAAAAAHYs/MURKJGutDlk/s1600/Schoenberg+Matrix.jpg)
My ever ongoing nemesis...
;D
Out of interest, John, do you feel the same about Berg that you do Schoenberg?
Quote from: The new erato on February 03, 2013, 08:53:16 AM
I'm working on it John, and you give a good explanation for why you like it. After 40 years of listening to classical music I still discover works I didn't know I liked (last case: Mendelssohn's Elijah); that's the wonder of it. With 40 years (?) of listening in front of you and an open mind, I wouldn't discount the possibility that you will find something in Bach or Mozart and look back in amusement on some of your posts.
While Bach was an instant hit with me, with Mozart it took me 30 years to discover that "there's so much depth to the music and the way it can subtly change harmonically is, quite simply, nothing short than marvelous". Before that it often (though there were exceptions like Don Giovanni) seemed simply like "too little was happening". But it does, to the open mind.
You see I had a similar situation, though certainly not 30 years, of being instantly struck by Delius and having to work hard at Shostakovich. Suffice to say that, in the end, both came out on top. :)
Quote from: madaboutmahler on February 03, 2013, 09:04:22 AM
;D
Out of interest, John, do you feel the same about Berg that you do Schoenberg?
Yes. All of them. Senseless cacophonies and irregular rhythms and bizarre moments. I am listening to Webern right now, loud, and why I bought this a couple of years ago may yet take me some more years to find out. I have visions of death, hellfire, strange and lonely people in vast surroundings when I listen to this kind of stuff. Even as I listen, my body is experiencing certain mutations and irregular pulse. LOL But I will keep listening at the moment.
Quote from: Scots John on February 03, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Yes. All of them. Senseless cacophonies and irregular rhythms and bizarre moments. I am listening to Webern right now, loud, and why I bought this a couple of years ago may yet take me some more years to find out. I have visions of death, hellfire, strange and lonely people in vast surroundings when I listen to this kind of stuff. Even as I listen, my body is experiencing certain mutations and irregular pulse. LOL But I will keep listening at the moment.
quote of the day*
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 03, 2013, 07:40:00 AM
That's what I said after watching Last Tango in Paris.
Maria Schneider is a fine memory...if only I could get Brando out of my head!!! ARGGGHHHH!
Sarge
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 03, 2013, 08:06:31 AM
...the only Mozart I own.... the Bohm box set of symphonies on DG.
Geez...no wonder you hate Mozart, John. If I only had Böhm's lumbering, sleepy performances, I'd hate Mozart too :D
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 03, 2013, 09:36:17 AM
Geez...no wonder you hate Mozart, John. If I only had Böhm's lumbering, sleepy performances, I'd hate Mozart too :D
Sarge
Böhm's Mozart is one of the first CDs I ever got rid of, one of the first times I ever decided to cull my collection.
And, like Scots John, I'll have to make some kind of effort with the Second Viennese School this month. Hey, it will be worth it if Gurn is by my side and Mirror John is listening to Vivaldi nonstop!
Mirror John, you should place trust in Charles Mackerras with Mozart, just like you would with Janacek. The Scottish Chamber Orchestra recordings, which were his very last recordings, inspired him to say in one of his final interviews that he'd finally done all he'd wanted to do. I also think you'd profit greatly from hearing HIP ensembles which inject some danger and sharpness into the music, like Europa Galante in Vivaldi or Cafe Zimmermann in Bach or Jordi Savall's people in just about anything. Baroque music doesn't have to be a bland snooze.
Quote from: Scots John on February 03, 2013, 09:14:56 AM
Yes. All of them. Senseless cacophonies and irregular rhythms and bizarre moments. I am listening to Webern right now, loud, and why I bought this a couple of years ago may yet take me some more years to find out. I have visions of death, hellfire, strange and lonely people in vast surroundings when I listen to this kind of stuff. Even as I listen, my body is experiencing certain mutations and irregular pulse. LOL But I will keep listening at the moment.
haha, I kind of share the same thoughts about Webern! ;D
I think that Berg has a far more sensitive, romantic streak through his music though which is why he is my favourite of the three. Do you know his violin concerto, John? :)
Quote from: Brian on February 03, 2013, 10:00:18 AM
Mirror John, you should place trust in Charles Mackerras with Mozart, just like you would with Janacek. The Scottish Chamber Orchestra recordings, which were his very last recordings, inspired him to say in one of his final interviews that he'd finally done all he'd wanted to do. I also think you'd profit greatly from hearing HIP ensembles which inject some danger and sharpness into the music, like Europa Galante in Vivaldi or Cafe Zimmermann in Bach or Jordi Savall's people in just about anything. Baroque music doesn't have to be a bland snooze.
+1000
And Freiburg Barockorchester's Mozart, too.
Quote from: Brian on February 03, 2013, 10:00:18 AM
And, like Scots John, I'll have to make some kind of effort with the Second Viennese School this month.
That's a surprise, Brian, to hear that you haven't yet made piece with this group. Not that I take a dive in their music every day -- in fact, most of what I've listened more than a few times is not entirely the archetypical output from this school. Still, I think I'm 'okay' with Berg, even with the operatic excerpts and some of the songs, when I'm in the mood. And just a few weeks ago, I made a mental note to start listening to all of Schoenberg's quartets. This thread has served as a reminder to me. :)
QuoteMirror John is listening to Vivaldi nonstop!
He
might do that, you know. The real emotion and complexity, which sadly is lacking in Bach's and often in Mozart's
music trivial noise, is what makes him a fan of the instrumental Italian Baroque. Like, really! :D
Quote from: madaboutmahler on February 03, 2013, 10:06:33 AM
haha, I kind of share the same thoughts about Webern! ;D
I think that Berg has a far more sensitive, romantic streak through his music though which is why he is my favourite of the three. Do you know his violin concerto, John? :)
Yes. MI John introduced it to me a while back.
It is now at home in a particularly small section of my music collection which I strategically called "NOT" - NOT being
NOT music I have bonded with, which is where I fished out the Webern...and quickly fished it back in again. :(
Quote from: Scots John on February 03, 2013, 10:17:58 AM
Yes. MI John introduced it to me a while back.
It is now at home in a particularly small section of my music collection which I strategically called "NOT" - NOT being NOT music I have bonded with, which is where I fished out the Webern...and quickly fished it back in again. :(
For a few years, Berg's violin concerto was my least favorite piece in the classical repertoire. But a combination of my maturity and Isabelle Faust means that now I can tolerate it, or mostly tolerate it. I'm at peace with Schoenberg's Chamber Symphonies, but with the weird exception of K.A. Hartmann's Sixth Symphony, I still find the Second Viennese, and almost everything they inspired, to be very tough sailing. Not even a fan of Shostakovich's First Symphony.
I gave a chance to Verdi's music and I listened to Nabucco which was broadcast on last Friday, from Teatro alla Scala. I'm afraid the experiment didn't go very well, the music wasn't able to involve me at all, except for some parts; I've found it too melodramatic, not thrilling, passionate and overwhelming enough. The only Verdi I seem to appreciate is the orchestral one (Requiem, the prestissimo from Don Carlos).
Give the chance to Benjamin Frankel? I'll rather assume that I was wrong when I was bored.
Quote from: mszczuj on February 03, 2013, 02:14:24 PM
Give the chance to Benjamin Frankel? I'll rather assume that I was wrong when I was bored.
I like his violin concerto, but found the symphonies relatively tough going - but I need to try again.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 03, 2013, 01:14:21 PM
I gave a chance to Verdi's music and I listened to Nabucco which was broadcast on last Friday, from Teatro alla Scala. I'm afraid the experiment didn't go very well, the music wasn't able to involve me at all, except for some parts; I've found it too melodramatic, not thrilling, passionate and overwhelming enough. The only Verdi I seem to appreciate is the orchestral one (Requiem, the prestissimo from Don Carlos).
You don't drink wine...you don't like Verdi. Are you sure you're really Italian? ;) Please tell me you at least like Penne all' Arrabiata! 8)
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 04, 2013, 01:07:19 AM
You don't drink wine...you don't like Verdi. Are you sure you're really Italian? ;) Please tell me you at least like Penne all' Arrabiata! 8)
Sarge
Hahaha, yeah, I seem to be definitely a would-be German citizen. :laugh: Sure, I like it very much.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 03, 2013, 01:14:21 PM
I gave a chance to Verdi's music and I listened to Nabucco which was broadcast on last Friday, from Teatro alla Scala. I'm afraid the experiment didn't go very well, the music wasn't able to involve me at all, except for some parts; I've found it too melodramatic, not thrilling, passionate and overwhelming enough . . . .
Mi dispiace, mi amica cara, ma . . . I shouldn't write Verdi's operas off, based on Nabucco, any more than I should write Mozart's operas off, based on Mitridate, re di Ponto. Both are comparatively early examples of the composer writing into a certain fashion of the time, neither is considered a particularly sublime masterpiece in the genre by either composer.
Have you tried Falstaff?
Quote from: karlhenning on February 04, 2013, 05:20:06 AM
Mi dispiace, mi amica cara, ma . . . I shouldn't write Verdi's operas off, based on Nabucco, any more than I should write Mozart's operas off, based on Mitridate, re di Ponto. Both are comparatively early examples of the composer writing into a certain fashion of the time, neither is considered a particularly sublime masterpiece in the genre by either composer.
Have you tried Falstaff?
No, I've never listened to Verdi's
Falstaff (although I know Karajan recorded it more than once :)), only
Nabucco,
Otello,
La traviata and
Rigoletto. Yes, the opera reflects a certain fashion of the time, but my problem with this music, as well as with Verdi's works in general, is that I find it too theatrical, too softly atmospheric and lacking in passionate intensity, overwhelming energy and deep psychological introspection. Wagner's
Der fliegende Holländer premiered only one year later than
Nabucco, but I think it has much more poetical tragedy, brilliance and timbric colour, while its characters express a much deeper sensuality.
things i downloaded this month that i had previously written off—
Schnittke (the symphonies)
Davies (the Naxos Quartets; listening to no. 7 now)
Alexander Tcherepnin (the symphonies)
Gloria Coates (various things i found on naxos online)
Rautavaara (the symphonies)
will report back... eventually... that's a lot of stuff to listen to
composers who've worn out all their chances already include Bruckner, Mahler and Wagner, the unholy trinity :lol: and Rossini.
Looks like February will be Saint-Saens month. Thank goodness it's not a leap year.
I suppose February is going to be a month of French music for me. I like Franck's Symphony in D minor and some Ravel, and that's about it.
I never warmed up to any of the French composers and as a massive opera fan, I find all French opera excruciatingly boring.
I would appreciate any suggestions of the musical gems I have been missing. 8)
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 04, 2013, 01:55:43 PM
No, I've never listened to Verdi's Falstaff (although I know Karajan recorded it more than once :)), only Nabucco, Otello, La traviata and Rigoletto. Yes, the opera reflects a certain fashion of the time, but my problem with this music, as well as with Verdi's works in general, is that I find it too theatrical, too softly atmospheric and lacking in passionate intensity, overwhelming energy and deep psychological introspection. Wagner's Der fliegende Holländer premiered only one year later than Nabucco, but I think it has much more poetical tragedy, brilliance and timbric colour, while its characters express a much deeper sensuality.
Verdi obviously cannot be compared to Wagner, they are both products of completely different musical heritages. Of course, Verdi is theatrical, it is after all Italian opera, but specifically Otello, I would not say is "
lacking in passionate intensity, overwhelming energy and deep psychological introspection". If there is one opera by Verdi that abounds in those qualities, it is Otello. La Traviata also has brilliant moments of poetical tragedy.
I would recommend you try Simone Boccanegra, and especially the finale of Act 1 (
"Plebe! Patrizi! Popolo!"). I regard that as one of the finest pieces of music Verdi ever wrote.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
I would appreciate any suggestions of the musical gems I have been missing. 8)
Rameau and Couperin (fathers, uncles, nephews and whathaveyou)
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
I suppose February is going to be a month of French music for me. I like Franck's Symphony in D minor and some Ravel, and that's about it.
I never warmed up to any of the French composers and as a massive opera fan, I find all French opera excruciatingly boring.
I would appreciate any suggestions of the musical gems I have been missing. 8)
A tough one. I love French music, but it is hard to recommned without being sure why you dislike it and knowing what you have heard. One composer I love is Adam - he wrote many ballets, the most famous of which is Giselle. That may be a place to start. Offenbach has wonderful melodies. His opera, Tales of Hoffman, is a classic, but there are orchestral discs as well that you could find. Bizet would be a natural place to start for many, and here I'd recommend the L'arlesienne and Carmen Suites. Debussy is wonderful, but not everyone likes this style. His La Mer is great as are numerous other pieces. Faure is famous for his Requiem, which I think is probably the prettiest of all the most famous requiems. Of course, Saint Saens has wonderful Piano Concertos (among lots of other great stuff) that is worth seeking out. If you like Franck, you might seek out a piano disc on Hyperion that I have always liked.
But I can go on and on with Hahn, Massenet, Gounod, Auber, Thomas, Boieldieu, Herold, etc. Anything you could add might help to narrow down a few choices.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 05, 2013, 02:05:16 AM
A tough one. I love French music, but it is hard to recommned without being sure why you dislike it and knowing what you have heard. One composer I love is Adam - he wrote many ballets, the most famous of which is Giselle. That may be a place to start. Offenbach has wonderful melodies. His opera, Tales of Hoffman, is a classic, but there are orchestral discs as well that you could find. Bizet would be a natural place to start for many, and here I'd recommend the L'arlesienne and Carmen Suites. Debussy is wonderful, but not everyone likes this style. His La Mer is great as are numerous other pieces. Faure is famous for his Requiem, which I think is probably the prettiest of all the most famous requiems. Of course, Saint Saens has wonderful Piano Concertos (among lots of other great stuff) that is worth seeking out. If you like Franck, you might seek out a piano disc on Hyperion that I have always liked.
But I can go on and on with Hahn, Massenet, Gounod, Auber, Thomas, Boieldieu, Herold, etc. Anything you could add might help to narrow down a few choices.
Thanks for the tips. I will give it a try.
There is no particular reason for me to dislike French music. I suppose I kind of formed an unconscious bias after several unsatisfactory encounters, and I have never really been seeking out French composers ever since. I like Giselle even though I never listened to the music alone, without the ballet. Faure's Requiem has been on my todo list for a while.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 01:38:04 AM
Verdi obviously cannot be compared to Wagner, they are both products of completely different musical heritages. Of course, Verdi is theatrical, it is after all Italian opera, but specifically Otello, I would not say is "lacking in passionate intensity, overwhelming energy and deep psychological introspection". If there is one opera by Verdi that abounds in those qualities, it is Otello. La Traviata also has brilliant moments of poetical tragedy.
I would recommend you try Simone Boccanegra, and especially the finale of Act 1 ("Plebe! Patrizi! Popolo!"). I regard that as one of the finest pieces of music Verdi ever wrote.
Maybe it expresses those qualities more than other Verdi's operas, it has many wagnerian influences; but not enough to strike fire from my heart, I'm afraid.
I could give
Otello another try though, or
Simone Boccanegra; thank you for the suggestion.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
I never warmed up to any of the French composers and as a massive opera fan, I find all French opera excruciatingly boring.
I would appreciate any suggestions of the musical gems I have been missing. 8)
Carmen ! ! !
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 05, 2013, 03:45:35 AM
Maybe it expresses those qualities more than other Verdi's operas, it has many wagnerian influences; but not enough to strike fire from my heart, I'm afraid.
I could give Otello another try though, or Simone Boccanegra; thank you for the suggestion.
Yes, late Verdi has many wagnerian influences and the Simone Boccanegra ensemble I mentioned is one of the additions made to the 1881 version of the opera.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 05, 2013, 02:05:16 AM
A tough one. I love French music, but it is hard to recommned without being sure why you dislike it and knowing what you have heard. One composer I love is Adam - he wrote many ballets, the most famous of which is Giselle. That may be a place to start. Offenbach has wonderful melodies. His opera, Tales of Hoffman, is a classic, but there are orchestral discs as well that you could find. Bizet would be a natural place to start for many, and here I'd recommend the L'arlesienne and Carmen Suites. Debussy is wonderful, but not everyone likes this style. His La Mer is great as are numerous other pieces. Faure is famous for his Requiem, which I think is probably the prettiest of all the most famous requiems. Of course, Saint Saens has wonderful Piano Concertos (among lots of other great stuff) that is worth seeking out. If you like Franck, you might seek out a piano disc on Hyperion that I have always liked.
But I can go on and on with Hahn, Massenet, Gounod, Auber, Thomas, Boieldieu, Herold, etc. Anything you could add might help to narrow down a few choices.
Great suggestions. I would add Ernest Chausson, Vincent d'Indy and Darius Milhaud.
Quote from: Florestan on February 05, 2013, 03:49:08 AM
Carmen ! ! !
Yes, Carmen. I have to give it another try. I have yet to watch the latest MET production with Elina Garanča.
Well, I suppose my problem with French opera is the same Ilaria has with Verdi. I find it mannered and devoid of real passion. It has fine moments, but not enough to sustain my attention for the whole thing.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 02:24:19 AM
Thanks for the tips. I will give it a try.
There is no particular reason for me to dislike French music. I suppose I kind of formed an unconscious bias after several unsatisfactory encounters, and I have never really been seeking out French composers ever since. I like Giselle even though I never listened to the music alone, without the ballet. Faure's Requiem has been on my todo list for a while.
Ah, well, if you liked Adam, you might give some of his other ballets a shot. There is La Filleule des Fées on Marco Polo and La Jolie Fille de Gand also on Marco Polo that could be worth a try. La Corsaire is another one.
Faure's Requiem is a real beauty. No guarantee that you will like it, of course, but it has some exquisite moments. His pavanne is quite famous (and a short piece), which you could probably find on youtube (to give you an idea of his style).
But I wouldn't worry too much. One day you'll hear something you like and it will open a hole in your wallet! :)
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 03:54:48 AM
Well, I suppose my problem with French opera is the same Ilaria has with Verdi. I find it mannered and devoid of real passion.
Carmen is anything but.
Quote
It has fine moments, but not enough to sustain my attention for the whole thing.
My exact sentiments about
Wagner. ;D
I gave a new try to Bruckner's Eighth, this time with Haitink / RCO. After 10 minutes (and knowing I have more than a whole hour ahead) I gave up in despair. ;D
Quote from: Florestan on February 05, 2013, 04:13:05 AM
I gave a new try to Bruckner's Eighth, this time with Haitink / RCO. After 10 minutes (and knowing I have more than a whole hour ahead) I gave up in despair. ;D
I tried Stockhausen's
Licht but after less than 10 minutes (and knowing I have more than 28 hours and 50 minutes ahead) gave up, not in despair, but blesséd relief.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 05, 2013, 04:19:57 AM
I tried Stockhausen's Licht but after less than 10 minutes (and knowing I have more than 28 hours and 50 minutes ahead) gave up, not in despair, but blesséd relief.
Sarge
♫ Know when to fold 'em . . . .
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 05, 2013, 04:19:57 AM
I tried Stockhausen's Licht but after less than 10 minutes (and knowing I have more than 28 hours and 50 minutes ahead) gave up, not in despair, but blesséd relief.
pfffffffff...
Quote from: Florestan on February 05, 2013, 04:13:05 AM
I gave a new try to Bruckner's Eighth, this time with Haitink / RCO. After 10 minutes (and knowing I have more than a whole hour ahead) I gave up in despair. ;D
As someone who has never really liked Bruckner, I have about 6 or 8 versions, and gave each no less than the full 80+ minutes. I have to say, after the Gielen and the Wand DVD, I am beginning to more than tolerate most of symphony and, in fact, like parts of it. Progress! Growth! Expanding horizon!
i've given Bruckner's various symphonies as much of their full duration as i could keep awake for, & found them on balance dull, bombastic, unmemorable, repetitive and generally dreadful.
>.>
Quote from: springrite on February 05, 2013, 04:32:54 AM
As someone who has never really liked Bruckner, I have about 6 or 8 versions, and gave each no less than the full 80+ minutes. I have to say, after the Gielen and the Wand DVD, I am beginning to more than tolerate most of symphony and, in fact, like parts of it. Progress! Growth! Expanding horizon!
You will learn to like it when Kimi enters her Bruckner phase. 8)
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 04:39:25 AM
You will learn to like it when Kimi enters her Bruckner phase. 8)
A reason for the urgency is that I am afraid of Kimi going ahead of me before she enters grade school! Ugh!
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 05, 2013, 03:57:37 AMLa Corsaire is another one.
Whoa, hold on.
La Corsaire? That I gotta see!
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 05, 2013, 03:57:37 AM
Ah, well, if you liked Adam, you might give some of his other ballets a shot. There is La Filleule des Fées on Marco Polo and La Jolie Fille de Gand also on Marco Polo that could be worth a try. La Corsaire is another one.
Another French ballet I like is Sylvia by Delibes although I must admit I was always paying more attention to Darcey Bussel than the music. I should listen to it with the display off.
Quote from: dyn on February 05, 2013, 04:38:06 AM
i've given Bruckner's various symphonies as much of their full duration as i could keep awake for, & found them on balance dull, bombastic, unmemorable, repetitive and generally dreadful.
>.>
Thank you for expressing exactly my thoughts. :)
Quote from: Brian on February 05, 2013, 04:43:21 AM
Whoa, hold on. La Corsaire? That I gotta see!
Here you are. ;D
(http://hercmerc.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/jesse-jane-pirates.jpg)
Quote from: Florestan on February 05, 2013, 04:53:46 AM
Quote from: dyn on February 05, 2013, 04:38:06 AM
i've given Bruckner's various symphonies as much of their full duration as i could keep awake for, & found them on balance dull, bombastic, unmemorable, repetitive and generally dreadful.
>.>
Thank you for expressing exactly my thoughts. :)
Those were likely my own thoughts, up to about three years ago.
So far as I know, aliens have not scrambled my brain since. But then, that would be what they want me to believe, wouldn't it? : )
Quote from: Brian on February 05, 2013, 04:43:21 AM
Whoa, hold on. La Corsaire? That I gotta see!
Quote from: Florestan on February 05, 2013, 04:59:08 AM
Here you are.
(http://hercmerc.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/jesse-jane-pirates.jpg)
Amazing what a difference one vowel can make ;D
Sarge
Va vowel voom!
[self-promotion disclaimer]
Quote from: Florestan on February 05, 2013, 04:59:08 AM
Here you are. ;D
(http://hercmerc.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/jesse-jane-pirates.jpg)
I was gonna respond, but I like your answer much better, so let's stick with that! :)
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
I suppose February is going to be a month of French music for me. I like Franck's Symphony in D minor and some Ravel, and that's about it.
I never warmed up to any of the French composers and as a massive opera fan, I find all French opera excruciatingly boring.
I would appreciate any suggestions of the musical gems I have been missing. 8)
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Nobody has mentioned
Berlioz?
Here are some suggestions,
Les Troyens is 4 hours long, though, so it might not be the ideal piece to start with. 8)
Roméo et Juliette,
Symphonie fantastique,
Harold en Italie,
Les nuits d'été,
Faust,
Les Troyenshttps://www.youtube.com/v/2FIWP3r0KLM
Quote from: North Star on February 05, 2013, 08:13:56 AM
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Nobody has mentioned Berlioz?
Berlioz is German... ;D
Quote from: Florestan on February 05, 2013, 09:28:29 AM
Berlioz is German... ;D
According to the French and judging by how they treat him, he can be anything except French.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
I suppose February is going to be a month of French music for me. I like Franck's Symphony in D minor and some Ravel, and that's about it.
I'm quite the Francophile so I have to say KEEP LISTENING! You'll find something. Besides Ravel and Debussy, have you bothered with any music from members of
Les Six? Particularly, Honegger and Poulenc? Milhaud is definitely a little tough going for starters, so I won't suggest him just yet. Have you tried any of Roussel's music? He wrote in a deeply personal Neoclassical style, but his early works are Impressionistic. He wrote some ballet music that will knock your socks off like
Le festin de l'araignée and
Bacchus et Ariane. His symphonies are also quite powerful. Check out
Symphony No. 3. If you can find Bernstein's performance, then don't hesitate to give it a listen. Faure, Berlioz, and Saint-Saens, of course, are always a great listen for me. Dutilleux has been a favorite for quite some time. His music is seen as an extension of Debussy and Ravel, but I also hear some Bartok and even a little Messiaen in his music from time to time. Check out Durufle's
Requiem at some point. It's quite a moving work. Magnard is another composer I've come to really love. His four symphonies are outstanding. Pierne is also another good one to check out.
Well, I admire that people who are not finding Bruckner to their tastes, giving him another try.
It took me a while, but he has for a few years now, been my favourite symphonic composer.
Vanessa, giving a composer she did not like previously another try.
"It is worse than I remembered!"
I will not name the composer in question.
She's going back to Mahler but promises to try another one of those disliked composer tomorrow.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 05, 2013, 09:43:30 AM
I'm quite the Francophile so I have to say KEEP LISTENING! You'll find something. Besides Ravel and Debussy, have you bothered with any music from members of Les Six? Particularly, Honegger and Poulenc? Milhaud is definitely a little tough going for starters, so I won't suggest him just yet. Have you tried any of Roussel's music? He wrote in a deeply personal Neoclassical style, but his early works are Impressionistic. He wrote some ballet music that will knock your socks off like Le festin de l'araignée and Bacchus et Ariane. His symphonies are also quite powerful. Check out Symphony No. 3. If you can find Bernstein's performance, then don't hesitate to give it a listen. Faure, Berlioz, and Saint-Saens, of course, are always a great listen for me. Dutilleux has been a favorite for quite some time. His music is seen as an extension of Debussy and Ravel, but I also hear some Bartok and even a little Messiaen in his music from time to time. Check out Durufle's Requiem at some point. It's quite a moving work. Magnard is another composer I've come to really love. His four symphonies are outstanding. Pierne is also another good one to check out.
I do like Honegger's Symphonie Liturgique, but Honegger is Swiss. ;D
Thanks for the other tips.
Quote from: North Star on February 05, 2013, 08:13:56 AM
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Nobody has mentioned Berlioz?
I do have a couple recordings of Symphonie Fantastique, but I never warmed up to it. I will definitely give it (and the other pieces) another try.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 09:51:42 AM
I do like Honegger's Symphonie Liturgique, but Honegger is Swiss. ;D
He's Swiss by birth, yes, but spent most of his life in France and wrote his great masterpieces there like
Symphony No. 3 "Liturgique". Also was also born in Le Havre, France to Swiss parents.
Quote from: springrite on February 05, 2013, 09:47:23 AM
I will not name the composer in question.
I weep to think that the name may be Henning . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on February 05, 2013, 09:58:41 AM
I weep to think that the name may be Henning . . . .
Cheer up, Meister Henning. I sent the "Love is the Spirit" YouTube link to Mrs. Rock. She loves the music.
Sarge
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 05, 2013, 09:55:07 AM
He's Swiss by birth, yes, but spent most of his life in France and wrote his great masterpieces there like Symphony No. 3 "Liturgique".
Martinů spent most of his adult life in France, he wrote all six of his symphonies in the States, and he is still a Czech composer. 8)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 05, 2013, 10:03:22 AM
Cheer up, Meister Henning. I sent the "Love is the Spirit" YouTube link to Mrs. Rock. She loves the music.
Sarge
:-)
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 10:06:03 AM
Martinů spent most of his adult life in France, he wrote all six of his symphonies in the States, and he is still a Czech composer. 8)
Like I said, Honegger wasn't even born in Switzerland. He was born in Le Havre, France.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 05, 2013, 09:43:30 AM
Magnard is another composer I've come to really love. His four symphonies are outstanding.
And his chamber music is even better - in my opinion of course.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 09:51:42 AM
I do like Honegger's Symphonie Liturgique, but Honegger is Swiss. ;D
Thanks for the other tips.
I do have a couple recordings of Symphonie Fantastique, but I never warmed up to it. I will definitely give it (and the other pieces) another try.
Roméo & Juliette is just brilliant (well, at least the orchestral parts).
Definitely try Poulenc (mentioned by MI), specifically the late wind sonatas and cello sonata.
Quote from: Fafner on February 05, 2013, 11:29:43 AM
Now off to the MET to see Carmen
(http://link.metoperafamily.org:90/Video_BB/BB_811357013533.jpg)
Nézet-Séguin; Frittoli, Garanča, Alagna, Tahu Rhodes
Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, Chorus and Ballet
I got rather excited during the overture, then quite sceptical over the course of Act 1. By the end of the fourth act, I was
almost won over. Garanča as Carmen is sex on legs. The production is spectacular; it is quite exciting with some very physical acting and everything really is playing to its favour. Then why is the magic not happening for me? (Not just yet, but barely. I am getting there, but I probably need a little more time.)
Carmen has a lot of magnificent moments (quite a lot more than any Gounod) connected by long minutes of unbearable fluff. I am aware that the same could be said of Wagner (and to a much larger extent) or practically any Italian opera. I got accustomed to it in Italian and German opera and I learned to listen to it and deal with the "boring bits". The French diction is just different. I suppose there is no other solution than to listen to more French opera and get used to it by pure repetition. 8)
I wouldn't be surprised if you were a victim of the conducting of Nezet-Seguin, whom I've found boring on several occasions in the past. For me, Carmen passes by with only a handful of dull moments, and I don't even like opera.
Opera isn't one of my favorite genres, but here are some favorites of mine:
Janacek: From the House of the Dead
Janacek: The Makropoulos Affair
Janacek: Katya Kabanova
Delius: A Village Romeo & Juliet
Delius: Koanga
Delius: Fennimore and Gerda
Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle
Wagner: Das Rheingold
Wagner: Tristan und Isolde
Wagner: Gotterdammerung
Ravel: L'enfant et les sortileges
Debussy: Pelleas et Melisande
Shostakovich: Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District
Mussorgsky: Khovanshchina
What are you giving a try this month, John?
Quote from: Brian on February 05, 2013, 06:35:31 PM
What are you giving a try this month, John?
A Beethoven String Quartet marathon, I naturally assume!! $:) :laugh:
Quote from: Brian on February 05, 2013, 06:35:31 PM
What are you giving a try this month, John?
Not sure yet. I'll probably revisit some Holmboe or Messiaen. Both of these composers have given me a lot of trouble.
Quote from: ChamberNut on February 05, 2013, 06:40:39 PM
A Beethoven String Quartet marathon, I naturally assume!! $:) :laugh:
Oh no, I like Beethoven's SQs. Much, much more than any of his orchestral works. Someone told me that their favorite Beethoven was the chamber music and I'm starting to understand why. :)
Great idea!
This month I am going to endeavour to actually listen to Mahler, Bruckner, Delius, Schoenberg and John Rutter.
Oh, and Before Daniel Hogan destroys me for having ne'er given Mahler my time, I quite like his work, just have never sat down to properly listen to it!
Also, if anyone out there dislikes Mozart, the Piano Quartet in G Minor is a great starting point for a work with personality IMHO, a rather striking work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ylhsp8rZ8
Quote from: ElliotViola on February 05, 2013, 11:25:13 PM
. . . Mahler, Bruckner, Delius, Schoenberg and John Rutter.
♫ One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on February 06, 2013, 01:55:12 AM
♫ One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong . . . .
I assume you mean Schoenberg of course! ::) Am I the only one on these forums who doesn't have an allergy to Rutter?
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 06, 2013, 01:57:47 AM
I assume you mean Schoenberg of course! ::) Am I the only one on these forums who doesn't have an allergy to Rutter?
(* chortle *)Just as a point of information, this is no auto-pilot: we sang a short Rutter thing just this Sunday morning past. And it was someone else who carped that its chief virtue was, that at least it was short.
You can find the odd piece which is actually good; but there's scads of boilerplate, and some people won't find the effort to find the rare good bit worthwhile.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 05, 2013, 08:58:26 PM
Oh no, I like Beethoven's SQs. Much, much more than any of his orchestral works. Someone told me that their favorite Beethoven was the chamber music and I'm starting to understand why. :)
8) Must have been some nut. ;)
Quote from: karlhenning on February 06, 2013, 01:55:12 AM
♫ One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong . . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0ftfKFEJg
Quote from: karlhenning on February 05, 2013, 09:58:41 AM
I weep to think that the name may be Henning . . . .
It is a name known to most people who don't know anything about classical music.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 06, 2013, 02:10:43 AM
(* chortle *)
Just as a point of information, this is no auto-pilot: we sang a short Rutter thing just this Sunday morning past. And it was someone else who carped that its chief virtue was, that at least it was short.
You can find the odd piece which is actually good; but there's scads of boilerplate, and some people won't find the effort to find the rare good bit worthwhile.
I picked up a disc of his work on Naxos last year at one of the various label sales, and I have to say that I quite enjoy it. I don't think it is boilerplate, though it has clear references (in my mind anyway) to other composers (Walton immediately comes to mind in some of it, for example). But it is fashionable to dislike him, Jenkins, and a few others. I guess this is not the right place for this discussion exactly, but I feel there are a number of people (not referencing anyone here) who simply jump on the bandwagon of vitriol without really trying to understand the music. I'll also be the first to admit, that there can be a certain 'sameness' to the sound that I find wearying sometimes (particularly in the choral sound). As a result, I tend to listen to pieces at a time (rather than the whole disc).
EDIT: HEre, for example, is a piece I quite like and can listen to repeatedly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKNQBOeQqQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKNQBOeQqQ)
Quote from: springrite on February 06, 2013, 02:44:40 AM
It is a name known to most people who don't know anything about classical music.
Oh, this is a quiz!
Does the name belong to a man?
Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 06, 2013, 03:29:56 AM
I picked up a disc of his work on Naxos last year at one of the various label sales, and I have to say that I quite enjoy it. I don't think it is boilerplate, though it has clear references (in my mind anyway) to other composers (Walton immediately comes to mind in some of it, for example). But it is fashionable to dislike him, Jenkins, and a few others. I guess this is not the right place for this discussion exactly, but I feel there are a number of people (not referencing anyone here) who simply jump on the bandwagon of vitriol without really trying to understand the music. I'll also be the first to admit, that there can be a certain 'sameness' to the sound that I find wearying sometimes (particularly in the choral sound). As a result, I tend to listen to pieces at a time (rather than the whole disc).
EDIT: Here, for example, is a piece I quite like and can listen to repeatedly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKNQBOeQqQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKNQBOeQqQ)
Thanks, Neal. Thought we should take it elsewhere (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19528.msg695050.html#msg695050) : )
Quote from: springrite on February 06, 2013, 02:44:40 AM
It is a name known to most people who don't know anything about classical music.
Mozart, Beethoven, Bach?
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 05, 2013, 08:57:16 PM
Not sure yet. I'll probably revisit some Holmboe or Messiaen. Both of these composers have given me a lot of trouble.
Are you allowed to spend on books? Since Sunday I've been reading essays by Holmboe, and aside from being filled with interesting thoughts and insights, they're making me very eager to hear his music. You get a direct, honest look at his writing process, as well as a discussion of various ways of listening and his appreciations of fellow composers like Nielsen and Haydn.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4184R60G7SL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Looks good, Brian.
Quote from: Brian on February 06, 2013, 04:56:36 AM
Are you allowed to spend on books? Since Sunday I've been reading essays by Holmboe, and aside from being filled with interesting thoughts and insights, they're making me very eager to hear his music. You get a direct, honest look at his writing process, as well as a discussion of various ways of listening and his appreciations of fellow composers like Nielsen and Haydn.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4184R60G7SL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I can buy books, sure. I've just devoted myself to not buying any CDs, although as I ruled out that birthday and Christmas money doesn't count. Thanks for the recommendation.
Quote from: ChamberNut on February 06, 2013, 04:06:10 AM
Mozart, Beethoven, Bach?
You are batting .667 at the moment.
Vaughan Williams Oboe Concerto was my I'll give it a try this month. Yup it's good.
Quote from: springrite on February 06, 2013, 06:18:47 AM
You are batting .667 at the moment.
And is this -- http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21401.msg692622.html#msg692622 -- what one would call a home run?
Quote from: DavidW on February 06, 2013, 06:23:37 AM
Vaughan Williams Oboe Concerto was my I'll give it a try this month. Yup it's good.
One of my favourite works. Welcome back #621, Dave. ;D
Quote from: DavidW on February 06, 2013, 06:23:37 AM
Vaughan Williams Oboe Concerto was my I'll give it a try this month. Yup it's good.
Hey, welcome back!
Quote from: DavidW on February 06, 2013, 06:23:37 AM
Vaughan Williams Oboe Concerto was my I'll give it a try this month. Yup it's good.
'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son... he was lost and is found. :)
Quote from: Gordon Shumway on February 06, 2013, 06:29:48 AM
'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son... he was lost and is found.
:)
There, grasp quickly! Capture the toad!Well met, Dave. ;)
Quote from: DavidW on February 06, 2013, 06:23:37 AM
Vaughan Williams Oboe Concerto was my I'll give it a try this month. Yup it's good.
Good on ye, Davey!
Quote from: Opus106 on February 06, 2013, 06:26:45 AM
And is this -- http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21401.msg692622.html#msg692622 -- what one would call a home run?
Inside-the-park homerun, which I would rather call a Quadruple.
What the hell! I'm giving the Finzi Eclogue a fresh try!
Looking at my CD shelves, a few items I should revisit after unfavourable first impressions :
- Martinu Symphonies
- Some Samuel Barber (already in progress this one - although I adore Knoxville)
- Organ Music
- Piano concerti (Brahms, LvB, Rachmaninov) and Violion concerti (Bruch, Brahms, Barber)... just 2 families of works that don't do it for me somehow...
- Ravel Piano Music
- Bartok SQ
and a few struggles from live concerts or BPO concert hall on top of my head: Knussen, Ives, some Webern, some Berg, Pierrot Lunaire, some Wuorinen...
on "Shuffle All" i heard John Adams's My Father Knew Charles Ives which to my surprise was actually enjoyable. Generally i find that Adams combines two of my least favourite things (namely, Bruckner and Glass), but maybe there's some more stuff in there i should revisit.
It is my hope that one day, some of you will look back upon this thread fondly and be glad that you participated as it helped initiate something that opened your horizon.
For me, right now:
Schubert Quintet (ugh!)
Quote from: Florestan on February 07, 2013, 06:30:32 AM
What does Kimi say?
I wouldn't be so cruel as to...
Wait, wrong attitude...
Quote from: springrite on February 07, 2013, 06:29:28 AM
It is my hope that one day, some of you will look back upon this thread fondly and be glad that you participated as it helped initiate something that opened your horizon.
For me, right now:
Schubert Quintet (ugh!)
You must mean that fishy one?
Paul, YHM
Quote from: springrite on February 03, 2013, 06:27:14 AM
Composers you have disliked for as long as you have been a music-lover, composers you have dismissed and even abused with fredquency, and composers who had caused physical pain when you last listened...
I don't think there are any
serious composers who qualify, but John Tesh and Yanni fit the bill. Life is too short to give either another try, however! ;)
I also think life is too short (especially as a 60 year-old cancer survivor) to put a lot of effort into liking those whom both history and my independent judgment have found wanting, though I do occasionally listen to music by such fellows, many of whom penned one or two noteworthy works even if most of their output remains unmemorable. My tastes have changed over the years as I've learned and grown and experienced more -- not just of music, but of life -- and several of the composers I now love most are fellows I had little respect for in adolescence.
Consequently, I feel that my efforts to broaden/deepen appreciation are more likely to pan out if I focus on composers whom the weight of informed opinion regards highly but who haven't yet spoken to my soul with the depth or consistency of those I love. Continued listening over several decades with an open mind has yielded love for Debussy, Stravinsky, Sibelius, Prokofiev, Brahms, and Schubert (among others) and increased appreciation (if not love) of Bruckner, Schumann, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, and others. Since it is among this latter group that I believe lasting satisfaction is most likely to be found, this is where I keep trying most often.
I like a wide range of classical music, spanning all eras and mediums. Of course, I don't love everything, and one style I haven't quite warmed up to is Minimalism.
So I'm giving this a listen on Naxos Music Library:
Philip Glass
Concerto for saxophone quartet
Rascher Saxophone Quartet
Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra
Dennis Russell Davis, conductor
[asin]B000006E4I[/asin]
I enjoyed the lyrical first movement, but found the jazz/rock-inspired second movement a bit less to my taste. The third movement is off to a good start to my ears, though - 'haunting' or 'melancholy' would seem to be good words to describe it.
Quote from: Papy Oli on February 06, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
Looking at my CD shelves, a few items I should revisit after unfavourable first impressions :
- Martinu Symphonies
You do that - and crank it up!
I'll probably play it safe and give Berlioz another go. Or maybe, finally, listen to some Tchaikovsky.
Quote from: Rinaldo on February 07, 2013, 02:17:08 PM
Or maybe, finally, listen to some Tchaikovsky.
You do that - and crank it up! 8)
Thanks guys for the warm welcome! ;D Can't promise a big upsurge in activity, this continues to be the busiest year I've had in a long time. Perhaps the busiest year I've ever had.
Quote from: DavidW on February 10, 2013, 04:32:07 AM
Thanks guys for the warm welcome! ;D Can't promise a big upsurge in activity, this continues to be the busiest year I've had in a long time. Perhaps the busiest year I've ever had.
Busy is good!
How about this one bit of Verdi, Ilaria?
http://www.youtube.com/v/5xVobL-I8oo
Victor Hugo allegedly said that he wished he could have four people speaking on the stage at the same time and achieve the same effect of conveying four completely different emotional states.
Anyway, it is brilliant music.
And by the way, I find it amazing that Domingo is 70 years old and he still sings better than many contemporary stars at the peak of their careers.
Tried
Bruckner and
Delius again, after a long time, both worked wonderfully.
Quote from: classicalgeek on February 07, 2013, 12:57:39 PM
I like a wide range of classical music, spanning all eras and mediums. Of course, I don't love everything, and one style I haven't quite warmed up to is Minimalism.
So I'm giving this a listen on Naxos Music Library:
Philip Glass
Concerto for saxophone quartet
Rascher Saxophone Quartet
Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra
Dennis Russell Davis, conductor
I enjoyed the lyrical first movement, but found the jazz/rock-inspired second movement a bit less to my taste. The third movement is off to a good start to my ears, though - 'haunting' or 'melancholy' would seem to be good words to describe it.
Have you tried
Pärt?
[asin]B003TT733G[/asin]
https://www.youtube.com/v/fbTK-uY_dIQhttps://www.youtube.com/v/4Rz6umeKw0Q
Quote from: North Star on February 19, 2013, 12:42:33 PM
Tried Bruckner and Delius again, after a long time, both worked wonderfully.
This is good news. Two of my absolute favorite composers.
What the heck, I Downloaded Verdi's Requiem to give Verdi another try, always liked Othello, but it's been years.
Quote from: Leo K. on February 19, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
What the heck, I Downloaded Verdi's Requiem to give Verdi another try, always liked Othello, but it's been years.
What the hell, I might listen to Mozart tonight...on second thought, no, I'm not
that desperate yet. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 19, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
What the hell, I might listen to Mozart tonight...on second thought, no, I'm not that desperate yet. :)
Wimp!
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 19, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
What the hell, I might listen to Mozart tonight...on second thought, no, I'm not that desperate yet. :)
If it's any consolation, I expect never to be desperate enough to listen to Delius (d/b/a The Poor Man's Debussy) ; )
Quote from: karlhenning on February 20, 2013, 04:48:00 AM
If it's any consolation, I expect never to be desperate enough to listen to Delius (d/b/a The Poor Man's Debussy) ; )
Double wimp(s)!
Quote from: springrite on February 20, 2013, 04:59:20 AM
Double wimp(s)!
Oh, yeah, buddy? Listen to some Holmboe with me! : )
Quote from: karlhenning on February 20, 2013, 05:02:53 AM
Oh, yeah, buddy? Listen to some Holmboe with me! : )
Well do. Quartets, OK?
What the h..., I've been listening to Carl Czerny lately!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003OCM3MY/
Symphonies nos 1 & 5, Brandenburgisches Staatsorchester Frankfurt conducted by Nikos Athinäos.
Despite the rather one-dimensional approach and interpretation, I rather enjoyed it.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 20, 2013, 05:24:37 AM
Excellent!
BTW, that recording of De Staat rocks! Awesome!
Glad you like it, Paul!
And for the important question: what does Kimi think? : )
Quote from: karlhenning on February 20, 2013, 05:34:19 AM
Glad you like it, Paul!
And for the important question: what does Kimi think? : )
"This is no Mahler!" is her reaction. But she did not dislike it. In fact I think she liked it OK. It is just that she loves Mahler so much (and Beethoven just below Mahler) that she measures everything to Mahler.
:-)
Here is a short Mozart opera for John:
http://www.youtube.com/v/KZ4ZNbiO15M
:P
Quote from: Fafner on February 20, 2013, 09:37:36 AM
Here is a short Mozart opera for John:
http://www.youtube.com/v/KZ4ZNbiO15M
:P
:D
I do hope I don't get shot for this, but the composer I like least...
...is Chopin. (Second is Arvo Part)
Do I have to listen to both??!
Quote from: huntsman on February 21, 2013, 05:39:44 AM
I do hope I don't get shot for this, but the composer I like least...
...is Chopin. (Second is Arvo Part)
Do I have to listen to both??!
Only if you posted this on a Thursday in a year ending in an odd number! :) Seriously, with Chopin, I do find that the person playing can have a major impact on my enjoyment sometimes. Maybe you just need to try someone else playing? Who have you heard?
Quote from: huntsman on February 21, 2013, 05:39:44 AM
I do hope I don't get shot for this, but the composer I like least...
...is Chopin. (Second is Arvo Part)
Do I have to listen to both??!
Now, if Arvo Part would only compose a "
Repetitive Chant on a Theme of Chopin".
Quote from: springrite on February 21, 2013, 05:43:56 AM
Now, if Arvo Part would only compose a "Repetitive Chant on a Theme of Chopin".
EEeeeeuw! ???
Cruel and unjust punishment...!
What the hell! — I'll give Glazunov a fresh try. Which for me . . . well, the fresh try will in part be Stenka Razin, of which the recording on Naxos did not appeal to me, back in the day. So: I shall both try Stenka in a different recording . . . and will give the symphonies a try. Who knows? They might just sing to me, now . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on February 24, 2013, 02:37:53 PM
What the hell! — I'll give Glazunov a fresh try. Which for me . . . well, the fresh try will in part be Stenka Razin, of which the recording on Naxos did not appeal to me, back in the day. So: I shall both try Stenka in a different recording . . . and will give the symphonies a try. Who knows? They might just sing to me, now . . . .
Fantastic, Karl - I look forward to hearing what you think. I'd definitely recommend giving the 4th symphony a listen, plus The Seasons. :)
For me this means Mozart. I can't explain why I don't like Mozart. I don't listen to the Classical Period very much, but when I do, I find Haydn much more engaging.
I'll start with Gould's Mozart Sonatas, I liked those. . . Maybe it's because Gould didn't like Mozart, either? :-\
Edit:
I have the same problems with Mendelssohn, also.
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on February 24, 2013, 11:48:37 PM
For me this means Mozart. I can't explain why I don't like Mozart. I don't listen to the Classical Period very much, but when I do, I find Haydn much more engaging.
I'll start with Gould's Mozart Sonatas, I liked those. . . Maybe it's because Gould didn't like Mozart, either? :-\
Edit:
I have the same problems with Mendelssohn, also.
True，Gould disliked Mozart, at least the piano music.
You have a soulmate here in John (Mirror Image)!
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on February 24, 2013, 11:48:37 PM
For me this means Mozart. I can't explain why I don't like Mozart. I don't listen to the Classical Period very much, but when I do, I find Haydn much more engaging.
I'll start with Gould's Mozart Sonatas, I liked those. . . Maybe it's because Gould didn't like Mozart, either? :-\
That is really weird! For many, Gould is their 'Go to' fellow for WAM's music...yet he didn't even like it??!
Try to my word, if not my desires, I have obtained an LP of Chopin's 24 Preludes OP. 28 with Maurizio Pollini, and will punish myself with this for the next 3 days.
Hey, what about a few more report-backs? 8)
Quote from: huntsman on February 25, 2013, 05:30:56 AM
. . . Hey, what about a few more report-backs? 8)
I found the one Glazunov symphony I've listened to so far (the Fourth) entirely enjoyable. So the thread is doing its job ; )
I haven't lived up to the spirit of the thread title yet. :( Am trying many, many new things, but not things I previously actively disliked or misunderstood.
Quote from: Brian on February 25, 2013, 07:25:08 AM
I haven't lived up to the spirit of the thread title yet. :( Am trying many, many new things, but not things I previously actively disliked or misunderstood.
Passively disliked or correctly understood also counts.
Quote from: springrite on February 25, 2013, 07:37:21 AM
Passively disliked or correctly understood also counts.
LOLOLOL!
Quote from: karlhenning on February 25, 2013, 05:45:22 AM
I found the one Glazunov symphony I've listened to so far (the Fourth) entirely enjoyable. So the thread is doing its job ; )
Really glad to hear that, Karl. Love that piece! :)
Quote from: Brian on February 25, 2013, 07:25:08 AM
I haven't lived up to the spirit of the thread title yet. :( Am trying many, many new things, but not things I previously actively disliked or misunderstood.
Me neither, Brian! I really should at least listen to the single work I had in my when I signed upto the this thread: Chin's Cello Concerto. Will try and fit in some Ligeti also perhaps. :)
Jumping in at the very end, I've listened to nothing but old nemeses today: Bach's WTC, Ligeti, Cage, and Schnittke.
Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
old opinion (2010ish): boring
new opinion: mesmerizing! Had no trouble getting through Book I in one sitting, can imagine a lifetime of exploration of this music
Ligeti: Lontano
old opinion (college years): hard, ugly composer
new opinion: this is really cool
Cage: Dream (for solo piano)
old opinion: composer of joke music
new opinion: lovely piece, atmospheric sound-picture
Schnittke: Violin Sonata, arr. for violin and chamber orchestra
old opinion: composer of 100% depressing nihilist stuff
new opinion: not going to rush to hear this piece again, but it is more entertaining than I'd expect
Quote from: Brian on February 25, 2013, 07:25:08 AM
I haven't lived up to the spirit of the thread title yet. :(
I haven't either...nor do I plan to. No Stockhausen for me.
Sarge
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on February 24, 2013, 11:48:37 PM
For me this means Mozart. I can't explain why I don't like Mozart. I don't listen to the Classical Period very much, but when I do, I find Haydn much more engaging.
I'll start with Gould's Mozart Sonatas, I liked those. . . Maybe it's because Gould didn't like Mozart, either? :-\
Edit:
I have the same problems with Mendelssohn, also.
There are a lot of composers I enjoy but Mozart has never been one of them. His music I find trite, meaningless, dispassionate, and completely disengaging. I loathe this composer, but, in other news, I'm finding Beethoven to much more of
my thing. I used to not care much about Beethoven, but his SQs have been opening my ears, especially the late SQs. I don't care much about his orchestral music. I don't think he had a great command over the orchestra nor do I think his orchestral music is particularly interesting. Beethoven, for me, is better suited in chamber music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 26, 2013, 01:11:38 PM
There are a lot of composers I enjoy but Mozart has never been one of them. His music I find trite, meaningless, dispassionate, and completely disengaging. I loathe this composer
I think that means you have to listen to Mozart this month! May I suggest the Piano Concerto No. 20, Clarinet Quintet, and Symphonies 39 and 40?
By the way, I'm now revisiting one of the very few things I remember actively disliking: the symphonies of Max Bruch.
Quote from: Brian on February 26, 2013, 01:14:34 PM
I think that means you have to listen to Mozart this month! May I suggest the Piano Concerto No. 20, Clarinet Quintet, and Symphonies 39 and 40?
Hell no I don't! :D I'm not participating in the "What the hell, I'll give it a try" month. I will continue to listen to music that inspires me and stimulates my heart and mind.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 26, 2013, 01:11:38 PMBeethoven....I don't think he had a great command over the orchestra nor do I think his orchestral music is particularly interesting.
You are so funny, John. Someday, probably sooner than later, you are going to cringe in abject embarrassment, remembering what you once thought about Beethoven :D
Sarge
Been away for a bit and came back to find this thread. Ooh - just what I want. I've had this problem with solo piano all my life; couldn't cope with the sound of the clinking and binking at the top end and the banging and donging at the bottom. Discovering the fortepiano a few years ago was a treat - suddenly I could enjoy Mozart's piano concertos and all sorts of stuff. And then somehow, gradually, the sound of the piano became tolerable. I don't understand this, but I don't care. Suddenly I'm listening to Chopin Nocturnes, Waltzes, Preludes with pleasure for the first time in my life.
In fact I've gone Chopin mad. On a recent visit to Bath Compact Discs I emerged with armsful of Chopin and nothing else! Ladies and Gentlemen, I stand before you a Chopin convert. That which I detested, now I love. Life is the better for it.
One day, John (MI) will be enjoying some sweet tea on his back porch, watching the sunset, when the Adagio from Mozart's Gran Partita for Winds will come on the radio, and it will bring a tear to his eye, as he whispers, "I'm sorry, Wolfie. I never should have doubted you."
Quote from: Elgarian on February 26, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
Been away for a bit and came back to find this thread. Ooh - just what I want. I've had this problem with solo piano all my life; couldn't cope with the sound of the clinking and binking at the top end and the banging and donging at the bottom. Discovering the fortepiano a few years ago was a treat - suddenly I could enjoy Mozart's piano concertos and all sorts of stuff. And then somehow, gradually, the sound of the piano became tolerable. I don't understand this, but I don't care. Suddenly I'm listening to Chopin Nocturnes, Waltzes, Preludes with pleasure for the first time in my life.
In fact I've gone Chopin mad. On a recent visit to Bath Compact Discs I emerged with armsful of Chopin and nothing else! Ladies and Gentlemen, I stand before you a Chopin convert. That which I detested, now I love. Life is the better for it.
Brilliant, Alan!
The
mazurkas are some of my very favourite music.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 26, 2013, 01:31:46 PM
One day, John (MI) will be enjoying some sweet tea on his back porch, watching the sunset, when the Adagio from Mozart's Gran Partita for Winds will come on the radio, and it will bring a tear to his eye, as he whispers, "I'm sorry, Wolfie. I never should have doubted you."
There's only one problem with this, Greg, I don't listen to the radio. :D
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 26, 2013, 01:40:13 PM
There's only one problem with this, Greg, I don't listen to the radio. :D
I figured that would be the only way Mozart would be playing near you. ;)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 26, 2013, 01:19:43 PM
You are so funny, John. Someday, probably sooner than later, you are going to cringe in abject embarrassment, remembering what you once thought about Beethoven :D
Sarge
I do like Beethoven's chamber works, Sarge, so that's a start I suppose. Mozart's music, on the other hand, reeks of body odor and dead fish. :D
Quote from: Elgarian on February 26, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
Been away for a bit and came back to find this thread. Ooh - just what I want. I've had this problem with solo piano all my life; couldn't cope with the sound of the clinking and binking at the top end and the banging and donging at the bottom. Discovering the fortepiano a few years ago was a treat - suddenly I could enjoy Mozart's piano concertos and all sorts of stuff. And then somehow, gradually, the sound of the piano became tolerable. I don't understand this, but I don't care. Suddenly I'm listening to Chopin Nocturnes, Waltzes, Preludes with pleasure for the first time in my life.
In fact I've gone Chopin mad. On a recent visit to Bath Compact Discs I emerged with armsful of Chopin and nothing else! Ladies and Gentlemen, I stand before you a Chopin convert. That which I detested, now I love. Life is the better for it.
I'm very pleased to hear that, Alan, Chopin's music is absolutely wonderful!
Which pianists are you listening to?
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 26, 2013, 01:11:38 PM
There are a lot of composers I enjoy but Mozart has never been one of them. His music I find trite, meaningless, dispassionate, and completely disengaging. I loathe this composer
John, I will not force you (of course, to relisten or revisit Mozart). I do encourage you to revisit his music someday. If you enjoy some of Haydn and some of Beethoven, I cannot fathom that at least a few pieces will hit home with you, regarding Mozart.
If I can only recommend one work, it is:
Great Mass in C minor, K.427. It certainly is anything but trite, meaningless, dispassionate. :)
I also recommend Symphony No. 39 or 40.
For chamber music, try the String Quintet K.515 in C major or K.516 in G minor. Or, the String Trio in E flat, K.563 (Grumiaux Trio)
Do as you wish, John. Just don't forever shut out the possibility of revistation of Mozart's music in the near or distant future. :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on February 26, 2013, 02:53:31 PM
John, I will not force you (of course, to relisten or revisit Mozart). I do encourage you to revisit his music someday. If you enjoy some of Haydn and some of Beethoven, I cannot fathom that at least a few pieces will hit home with you, regarding Mozart.
If I can only recommend one work, it is: Great Mass in C minor, K.427. It certainly is anything but trite, meaningless, dispassionate. :)
I also recommend Symphony No. 39 or 40.
For chamber music, try the String Quintet K.515 in C major or K.516 in G minor. Or, the String Trio in E flat, K.563 (Grumiaux Trio)
Do as you wish, John. Just don't forever shut out the possibility of revistation of Mozart's music in the near or distant future. :)
Don't forget disengaging. ;) ;D Thanks, Ray. I haven't completely shut the door on Mozart like many people here have done with my favorite composer, Delius. I guess this shows that I continue to have an open-mind while these people simply do not. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 26, 2013, 04:18:56 PM
Don't forget disengaging. ;) ;D Thanks, Ray. I haven't completely shut the door on Mozart like many people here have done with my favorite composer, Delius. I guess this shows that I continue to have an open-mind while these people simply do not. :)
"John said what?!" - Dimitri, searching for proof in the local newspaper of John's betrayal ;D
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2571/3909222307_bc805ee3bd.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 26, 2013, 04:34:03 PM
"John said what?!" - Dimitri, searching for proof in the local newspaper of John's betrayal ;D
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2571/3909222307_bc805ee3bd.jpg)
:laugh:
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on February 26, 2013, 04:34:03 PM
"John said what?!" - Dimitri, searching for proof in the local newspaper of John's betrayal ;D
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2571/3909222307_bc805ee3bd.jpg)
Lol...
To be fair to both of them, it's really a tie. Both of them appeal to different sides of my personality. Sorry Dmitri! I love them both equally.
Quote from: Brian on February 26, 2013, 01:04:02 PM
Jumping in at the very end, I've listened to nothing but old nemeses today: Bach's WTC, Ligeti, Cage, and Schnittke.
Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
old opinion (2010ish): boring
new opinion: mesmerizing! Had no trouble getting through Book I in one sitting, can imagine a lifetime of exploration of this music
Ligeti: Lontano
old opinion (college years): hard, ugly composer
new opinion: this is really cool
Cage: Dream (for solo piano)
old opinion: composer of joke music
new opinion: lovely piece, atmospheric sound-picture
Schnittke: Violin Sonata, arr. for violin and chamber orchestra
old opinion: composer of 100% depressing nihilist stuff
new opinion: not going to rush to hear this piece again, but it is more entertaining than I'd expect
If we were to award a medal at the end of the month, you are, currently speaking, the leading contender. (The only way you may be overtaken is if John converts to Mozart or Sarge converts to Stockhausen!)
Quote from: Elgarian on February 26, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
Been away for a bit and came back to find this thread. Ooh - just what I want. I've had this problem with solo piano all my life; couldn't cope with the sound of the clinking and binking at the top end and the banging and donging at the bottom. Discovering the fortepiano a few years ago was a treat - suddenly I could enjoy Mozart's piano concertos and all sorts of stuff. And then somehow, gradually, the sound of the piano became tolerable. I don't understand this, but I don't care. Suddenly I'm listening to Chopin Nocturnes, Waltzes, Preludes with pleasure for the first time in my life.
In fact I've gone Chopin mad. On a recent visit to Bath Compact Discs I emerged with armsful of Chopin and nothing else! Ladies and Gentlemen, I stand before you a Chopin convert. That which I detested, now I love. Life is the better for it.
I find Chopin Madness entirely understandable, dear chap!
Quote from: springrite on February 26, 2013, 05:06:27 PM
If we were to award a medal at the end of the month, you are, currently speaking, the leading contender. (The only way you may be overtaken is if John converts to Mozart or Sarge converts to Stockhausen!)
Or Ray converts to Vaughan Williams 'A Sea Symphony'. ;D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 26, 2013, 01:19:43 PM
You are so funny, John. Someday, probably sooner than later, you are going to cringe in abject embarrassment, remembering what you once thought about Beethoven :D
Sarge
Worth quoting. ;D
Quote from: North Star on February 26, 2013, 01:35:32 PM
Brilliant, Alan!
The mazurkas are some of my very favourite music.
Not quite into the Mazurkas yet (except occasional examples), but it's just a matter of time. I have a lifetime of catch-up to do.
Okay, I've tried, but I'm getting nowhere. Piano sonatas, concertos, symphonies: nothing by Mozart clicks for me. I think I even like him less than when I started! Is there something wrong with me? I like Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms, (and Bartok and Berg :D) isn't that enough? I can't appreciate Mozart, yet. His music seems too detached, with a certain sameness to it all. When emotion is expressed it seems cloying, and anger very petty. I know this is my fault, and not the music's, but at the moment I don't see myself ever liking Mozart. I can't even listen to the "beautiful" second movement of the 21st Piano Concerto without feeling uncomfortable. Music doesn't usually make me uncomfortable! Bored, maybe, but never anything like this. Maybe this means there's hope, if the music sparks some sort of intense emotion? Still, I can't see much hope when that emotion is detest. The best I can do is kind of enjoy the Clarinet Concerto. I'll keep trying, at least until the end of February. . . even if it kills me. But you'll all feel bad if at my death bed it's discovered I was literally allergic to Mozart. :P
Plus, this excerpt from a "poem" by Mozart makes me feel very uncomfortable . . . Weber is my last name! :o
". . . The concerto for Paris I'll keep, tis' more fitting.
I'll scribble it there someday when I'm shitting.
Indeed I swear 'twould be far more fun
With the Webers around the world to run
Then go with those bores, you know whom I mean.
When I think of their faces, I get the spleen.
But I suppose it must be and off we shall toddle,
Though Weber's arse I prefer to Ramm's noodle.
A slice of Weber's arse is a thing . . ."
So, at least I have an "excuse" for not liking him, now. ;D
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on February 26, 2013, 01:43:11 PM
I'm very pleased to hear that, Alan, Chopin's music is absolutely wonderful!
Which pianists are you listening to?
I started with the Pires set of Nocturnes, and they made the breakthrough, really. Then I bought the DG Martha Argerich solo box, which has quite a bit of Chopin in it:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41xvucErbdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BU46ys6vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Then a few weeks later I was in Bath for a couple of days, and spent ages in Bath Compact Discs before emerging with the following:
Perez Ashkenatzy
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41rXLrh-B3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NF29D7N7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Kissin Fliter
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519-qPwMHnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SJST64D5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Igoshina Barenboim
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qoPv4djZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NOTnvtvVL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
That's a lot to absorb, and I can't honestly say that I've found any reason to prefer one pianist to another, so far. They all seem pretty marvellous, but then, coming from where I'm coming from, I'd expect not to be sensitive to the various nuances of performance - simply because I don't know the work very well.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 26, 2013, 05:08:27 PM
I find Chopin Madness entirely understandable, dear chap!
Yes, but you know me well enough by now to understand
any sort of madness on my part, Karl.
Quote from: Brian on February 26, 2013, 01:04:02 PM
Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier
old opinion (2010ish): boring
new opinion: mesmerizing! Had no trouble getting through Book I in one sitting, can imagine a lifetime of exploration of this music
What performance? Hearing it on harpsichord was a torture for me, but
Edwin Fischer changed all that in the blink of an eye. Now it is one of my favorite keyboard music. :)
Quote from: Elgarian on February 26, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
In fact I've gone Chopin mad. On a recent visit to Bath Compact Discs I emerged with armsful of Chopin and nothing else! Ladies and Gentlemen, I stand before you a Chopin convert. That which I detested, now I love. Life is the better for it.
Great news! :)
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on February 27, 2013, 12:19:17 AM
Plus, this excerpt from a "poem" by Mozart makes me feel very uncomfortable . . . Weber is my last name! :o
". . . The concerto for Paris I'll keep, tis' more fitting.
I'll scribble it there someday when I'm shitting.
Indeed I swear 'twould be far more fun
With the Webers around the world to run
Then go with those bores, you know whom I mean.
When I think of their faces, I get the spleen.
But I suppose it must be and off we shall toddle,
Though Weber's arse I prefer to Ramm's noodle.
A slice of Weber's arse is a thing . . ."
So, at least I have an "excuse" for not liking him, now. ;D
But he liked the Webers! (And their arses. 18th century Austrians had a weird way of expressing themselves, I'll give you that.) Heck, he fell in love with one and ended up marrying her sister! ;D
Quote from: Opus106 on February 27, 2013, 12:33:09 AM
But he liked the Webers! (And their arses. 18th century Austrians had a weird way of expressing themselves, I'll give you that.) Heck, he fell in love with one and ended up marrying her sister! ;D
I know that, but it doesn't exactly help. . . :-\ ;D
Quote from: Adam of the North(west) on February 27, 2013, 12:19:17 AM
Okay, I've tried, but I'm getting nowhere. Piano sonatas, concertos, symphonies: nothing by Mozart clicks for me. I think I even like him less than when I started! Is there something wrong with me? I like Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms, (and Bartok and Berg :D) isn't that enough? I can't appreciate Mozart, yet. His music seems too detached, with a certain sameness to it all. When emotion is expressed it seems cloying, and anger very petty.
I know it's no consolation, but I've been there and done that, myself. For years and years I found the same brick wall to bang my head against that you're finding now. I think the breakthrough came via the operas - have you tried listening to highlights from
Don Giovanni, for instance? Or
Cosi Fan Tutte? This, for example, is sometimes claimed as the most beautiful three minutes in the whole of opera, and, while I'm listening, I believe it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wi7UsXW1As (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wi7UsXW1As)
I think above all for me, though, it was a matter of waiting for the time to be right.
The man that loathe Mozart in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of his sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.
Sorry, John (MI), couldn't resist. ;D :D
Quote from: Elgarian on February 27, 2013, 12:20:18 AM
. . . Then I bought the DG Martha Argerich solo box, which has quite a bit of Chopin in it:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BU46ys6vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(* pounds the table *)
Alan, so happy to hear about your Chopin discovery! You're right, specific pianists are something you'll hone in on later, but for now you have so many glorious new things to fall for. There's nothing else like Chopin, for better or worse.
Quote from: Florestan on February 27, 2013, 12:29:16 AM
What performance? Hearing it on harpsichord was a torture for me, but Edwin Fischer changed all that in the blink of an eye. Now it is one of my favorite keyboard music. :)
Some dude named Sviatoslav Richter ;)
Quote from: karlhenning on February 26, 2013, 05:08:27 PM
I find Chopin Madness entirely understandable, dear chap!
To not have (or at least have had)
Chopin Madness would be unfathomable!
Quote from: Elgarian on February 26, 2013, 11:55:08 PM
Not quite into the Mazurkas yet (except occasional examples), but it's just a matter of time. I have a lifetime of catch-up to do.
Absolutely!
Quote from: Brian on February 27, 2013, 04:30:10 AM
Alan, so happy to hear about your Chopin discovery! You're right, specific pianists are something you'll hone in on later, but for now you have so many glorious new things to fall for. There's nothing else like Chopin, for better or worse.
+1
Thanks to all for sharing my new-found pleasure. Given my present Chopin collection listed above (i.e. here at this link) ...
(http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21440.msg700674.html#msg700674 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21440.msg700674.html#msg700674))
... which was put together largely as a result of consulting reviews, pure whim, taking a gamble on half-price sales, chatting to the staff at Bath Compact discs, and limited by the stock they happened to have in the shop, are there any really urgent and blindingly obvious 'must-haves' that I should add to those sooner rather than later?
Now we are starting countdown to the end of WTHIWGIAT Month. THis is your last chance to make that life-changing step to expand your horizon!
Last chance (especially in certain time zones)
Quantities are limited
Your mileage may vary
Some restrictions may apply
So what are you waiting for!
Now I am going for Lajtha!
Quote from: Florestan on February 27, 2013, 12:52:35 AM
The man that loathe Mozart in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of his sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.
Sorry, John (MI), couldn't resist. ;D :D
:P
Quote from: Elgarian on February 27, 2013, 07:12:52 AM
... which was put together largely as a result of consulting reviews, pure whim, taking a gamble on half-price sales, chatting to the staff at Bath Compact discs, and limited by the stock they happened to have in the shop, are there any really urgent and blindingly obvious 'must-haves' that I should add to those sooner rather than later?
That's quite a rich lode you've mined there, Alan . . . that lot plus the Argerich box covers a lot of territory, and covers it very well. No obvious gaps that I can see. (Gosh, that was not helpful, wasn't it? . . .)
a helpful website provided me with Chopin's Preludes arranged for orchestra by Jean Françaix. Some of them work better than others, but it's intriguing listening either way—i have somewhat of an inordinate fascination with this sort of thing
Quote from: karlhenning on February 27, 2013, 07:36:11 AM
That's quite a rich lode you've mined there, Alan . . . that lot plus the Argerich box covers a lot of territory, and covers it very well. No obvious gaps that I can see. (Gosh, that was not helpful, wasn't it? . . .)
It certainly
was, my dear chap. It means I can give my credit card a well-earned rest, and with a clear conscience!
Quote from: Elgarian on February 27, 2013, 08:13:40 AM
It certainly was, my dear chap. It means I can give my credit card a well-earned rest, and with a clear conscience!
Yes, my own credit card has recently stopped glowing, and soon it will be positively cool.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 27, 2013, 08:49:00 AM
Yes, my own credit card has recently stopped glowing, and soon it will be positively cool.
It is decidedly un-American to let your credit card freeze, though.
Quote from: Elgarian on February 27, 2013, 08:13:40 AM
It certainly was, my dear chap. It means I can give my credit card a well-earned rest, and with a clear conscience!
Incidentally, apart from her Chopin (which is exquisite) . . . when you get around to it, one of the (apparently counterintuitive) treasures in that Argerich solo box to this musician's ears, is the Bach disc. I don't know that I would want everyone to play Bach as she does, but I could listen to her play Bach all day . . . .
Quote from: springrite on February 27, 2013, 08:50:33 AM
It is decidedly un-American to let your credit card freeze, though.
Considering physical placement, my credit card couldn't freeze, unless I were exceptionally careless where I sit . . . .
Quote from: Elgarian on February 27, 2013, 12:20:18 AM
I started with the Pires set of Nocturnes, and they made the breakthrough, really. Then I bought the DG Martha Argerich solo box, which has quite a bit of Chopin in it:
Then a few weeks later I was in Bath for a couple of days, and spent ages in Bath Compact Discs before emerging with the following:
Perez Ashkenatzy
Kissin Fliter
Igoshina Barenboim
That's a lot to absorb, and I can't honestly say that I've found any reason to prefer one pianist to another, so far. They all seem pretty marvellous, but then, coming from where I'm coming from, I'd expect not to be sensitive to the various nuances of performance - simply because I don't know the work very well.
Certainly, you'll make you ear more refined and more sensitive later after improving your Chopin knowledge. :)
The Ashkenazy set is beautifully performed, it was my first introduction to Chopin's music and it contains my favourite recording of the
Grand Valse Brillante. Pires'
Nocturnes are also great, so passionate and atmospheric. I haven't listened to the Argerich and the Barenboim, but they are two wonderful pianists and I think their performances must be very fine.
Quote from: karlhenning on February 27, 2013, 08:53:33 AM
Considering physical placement, my credit card couldn't freeze, unless I were exceptionally careless where I sit . . . .
Unless it's in a slim card holder (and perhaps even then), it's not healthy to sit with having the wallet pressing your nerves and obstructing blood flow, though!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2664615.stm
It's February: What the Hell! I'll try Corelli . . . .
I'm sort of surprised that when Mozart recommendations are being thrown, ye good ol' Eine kleine Nachtmusik never comes up. Is it just because of its obnoxiousity or is it considered a lesser work by people in the know?
Because even though it's been spoiled by over-usage, I still find it to be one of the most charming musical pieces ever written, perfectly representative of what Mozart (to me) is about.
I love that piece. Period.
;D
One beautiful piece of music. Wish I'd written it.
Quote from: sanantonio on March 17, 2013, 05:17:17 AM
A string orchestra is okay, IMO, but I really prefer a small ensemble sound for this work.
Same here, although I have a very fond relationship with an old record by the Slovak Chamber Orchestra, which is as romanticized as you can get and it still works.
My current favourite is Hogwood with the AAM (that's the quintet arrangement if I remember correctly). I've yet to acquire the celebrated Manze, though. And thanks for the Amadeus Quartet tip, I'll definitely check it out.
Quote from: Rinaldo on March 16, 2013, 11:11:58 PM
I'm sort of surprised that when Mozart recommendations are being thrown, ye good ol' Eine kleine Nachtmusik never comes up. Is it just because of its obnoxiousity or is it considered a lesser work by people in the know?
Because even though it's been spoiled by over-usage, I still find it to be one of the most charming musical pieces ever written, perfectly representative of what Mozart (to me) is about.
It is both charming and representative of one side of Mozart. But it is also comparably lighweight, modest and because of its ubiquitious presence it seems precisely one of the pieces people who find Mozart shallow or boring have in mind.
It does hardly show the passionate, operatic side of Mozart that is present also in some instrumental pieces like the g minor symphony, nor the "intellectual" side of some string quartets, quintets, or the "Jupiter", nor the brilliant instrumentation for winds like in the "Gran partita" or the piano concertos K 482 and 491, nor the grand choral writing of the Requiem and c minor mass. As there are so many great works by Mozart, the Kleine Nachtmusik has to count as a lesser one (it even says so in the name!), despite its not unjustified popularity.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 03, 2013, 07:05:29 AM
NO! NO! ...please don't make me listen to Stockhausen! Sarge
I agree, Sarge, and I would like to add Hans Werner Henze. I went to a Friday matinee concert of the Chicago Symphony in the early 1970's in which Solti conducted Henze's Heliogabalus imperator. It had been commissioned by the Chicago Symphony, and Solti had conducted the world premiere the night before. People started leaving a few minutes in, and by the end, about 70% of the original audience had left, and the performance only received polite, tepid applause.
Quote from: RebLem on October 23, 2016, 10:21:12 PM
I agree, Sarge, and I would like to add Hans Werner Henze. I went to a Friday matinee concert of the Chicago Symphony in the early 1970's in which Solti conducted Henze's Heliogabalus imperator. It had been commissioned by the Chicago Symphony, and Solti had conducted the world premiere the night before. People started leaving a few minutes in, and by the end, about 70% of the original audience had left, and the performance only received polite, tepid applause.
The audience reaction, alas, is not conclusive.
Quote from: RebLem on October 23, 2016, 10:21:12 PM
I agree, Sarge, and I would like to add Hans Werner Henze. I went to a Friday matinee concert of the Chicago Symphony in the early 1970's in which Solti conducted Henze's Heliogabalus imperator. It had been commissioned by the Chicago Symphony, and Solti had conducted the world premiere the night before. People started leaving a few minutes in, and by the end, about 70% of the original audience had left, and the performance only received polite, tepid applause.
Still a better reception than the premiere of Bruckner's Third!
You'd have to offer me at least a small fortune to sit through the utterly revulsive damned Franck Violin Sonata... again. Yeah, I've essayed it a number of times over many years, and it does not get any better. It is the essence of truly obnoxious music.
Quote from: Monsieur Croche on October 25, 2016, 08:19:47 AM
You'd have to offer me at least a small fortune to sit through the utterly revulsive damned Franck Violin Sonata... again. Yeah, I've essayed it a number of times over many years, and it does not get any better. It is the essence of truly obnoxious music.
I'm having the devil of a time trying to raise money for that proposal. Have you tried Kickstarter?
0:)