GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: snyprrr on March 16, 2009, 07:33:00 PM

Title: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on March 16, 2009, 07:33:00 PM
This is in response to the lack of interest in the Ralph Shapey thread.

Roger Sessions.
After my initial dislike (I didn't like ANY scary music back then), and my subsequent full circle, I found Sessions to be one of the few composers I could get my "complexity" fix from.

Still not a big fan of Black Maskers and Sym no.1, but starting with Sym. no2 (mid 40s) his style begins to congeal.

Then, in the 50s, he adopted the 12tone with the Solo Violin Sonata, Str. Qrt no.2, Sym no.3, Piano Cto, and Str Quintet. He developed a "rocking" motive that he used many times (Sym 3, Sym 5, Piano cto) to great effect, and I find this his "caling card." I believe there is also a chamber orch piece from this era (on Pheonix cd w/Crumb) which I've only heard snippets of.

The Argo cd with Sym. 6,7 & 9, to me, is a high point for this kind of stuff (4-5 on NewWorld). Really gritty, huge, 1960s symphonies written and sounding like they came from a post-JFK/Vietnam world. To ME, IMO, the complimentary composer is Pettersson of Sym 9 and 13, meaning, there seems to be about as many notes in each (a very lot!), and the same kind of angst.

Only Sym no8 have I not heard, though recently recorded on NewWorld.

All the chamber/piano music has been recorded on Koch (except qrt. no2) in committed performances. The first qrt (1937) has a very Germanic, dark 1930s sound...Hindemith, Krenek, Hartmann??...maybe still early Pettersson (1940s). If anyone wants, I'll itemize the chamber, but not right now. 
The masterpiece is string quartet no.2. Along with Carter's first...just compare the two to see the wealth of ideas in 1951-2. I just can't say enough about this qrt. It is my fav to listen to around early dusk. And the VoxBox is infinitely preferable to the Julliard's dry acoustic on CRI, though the Julliards have some interesting touches.

Lilacs and the opera I have yet to hear.

cto. for orchestra, his last piece, received an awesome Hyperion recording w/Ozawa. I DO appreciate composers who retain their crankiness to the bitter end!

I might be missing something here, but top 3:

Str. Qrt no2
Piano cto.
Sym. no3

and for accumulative effect, dig it, Sessions=Pettersson. There, I said it.
Title: Re: Roger SESSIONS
Post by: Chafing Dish on March 16, 2009, 08:02:25 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on March 16, 2009, 07:33:00 PM
Sessions=Pettersson. There, I said it.
That is such an odd juxtaposition in my mind... I will have to give it some thought.  :o
Title: Re: Roger SESSIONS
Post by: springrite on March 16, 2009, 08:06:12 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on March 16, 2009, 07:33:00 PM
Sessions=Pettersson. There, I said it.

No.
Session: Cranky, but not much pain and suffering.
Pettersson: Lots of pain and suffering, but not that cranky.

Session is one of those composers I like but do not love. Have loads of his stuff. Only listened to some of his chamber music lately.
Title: Re: Roger SESSIONS
Post by: snyprrr on March 16, 2009, 10:34:23 PM
yes, i see what you say...cranky vs. suffrnin

but the general level of "tension" seems about...

and maybe the "monumental" aspects of both. though the monumental qualities of R. Simpson are totally different altogether (COSMIC)

maybe i was thinking to much of Pettersson's "Symph. Mvmt." (1979), only about 11min., not enough time for him to sad-out. however, i DO see a link between Honegger and Pettersson's Sym. 2-3 (of course).

i hope everyone does not hone in on that one quote, heehee.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: Dundonnell on March 17, 2009, 06:51:44 AM
Roger Sessions...hmm :-\

I have tried very hard with Sessions. Collected all the symphonies, the piano and violin concertos, the Cantata 'When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd', the Idyll of Theocritus for soprano and orchestra. He was a composer and teacher of huge intelligence and considerable influence but his music, even during his lifetime, was more respected than loved I would guess. It is not easy music(no reason why it should be, of course) but not easy for orchestras to play either. And a lot more complex and intractable than Pettersson's too :)

I like the American symphonists-Harris, Hanson, Piston, Schuman, Mennin, Diamond etc-but Sessions I just find too hard a nut to crack, I am afraid :(
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: karlhenning on March 17, 2009, 07:03:14 AM
I applaud your fairness, Colin!

I've long been curious about Sessions, but his music and I have simply never happaned to be in the same place at the same time.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on March 17, 2009, 05:49:23 PM
I recommend the Argo disc with syms. 6,7, & 9, though, there IS nothing easy to it.

Still, the most communicative pieces are Str. Qrt. no2, Sym. no3, and the Piano cto, and to a lesser extent, Sym. no2 (great recording by Blomstedt on london).

If Ferneyhough is the "New" complexity, is Sessions the "old"? I am surprised that not more people are....

Is there a composer MORE unfriendly? Is Sessions the last word in tuff nutz? I'm confused, cause i kind of think of him as a walk in the park (albeit during a thunderstorm).  I'm not THAT out there, am I?
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: some guy on March 17, 2009, 09:27:30 PM
The Concertino for chamber orchestra (the one coupled with the Crumb Songs, Drones, and Refrains of Death) is a very nice piece indeed. Both pieces are, for that matter.

As I hear it, Sessions is the easiest of the American symphonists to listen to over and over again. I love Piston dearly, but I have to leave long stretches in between listenings, or it just gets tedious. Same with Schuman. Schuman has the one or two tricks, tricks I love very much, but I can't listen to two pieces by Schuman back to back without getting restless. "Yes, yes, I've heard that already."

I don't know if what I just said about me is any help or not for someone else approaching Sessions. It's not difficult, I don't find. Various and interesting. Always some new little surprise.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on March 18, 2009, 12:48:01 AM
ahh, finally...

see? Sessions IS the easiest u.s. composer to listen to!!!!!
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: Dundonnell on March 18, 2009, 09:23:41 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on March 18, 2009, 12:48:01 AM
ahh, finally...

see? Sessions IS the easiest u.s. composer to listen to!!!!!

I beg to differ ;D
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: karlhenning on March 18, 2009, 09:33:43 AM
I don't mind a little push-back from the music  0:)
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on October 01, 2011, 07:49:46 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 18, 2009, 09:33:43 AM
I don't mind a little push-back from the music  0:)

mmm... 2 years :(


I was enjoying his Piano Sonata No.1,... wondering how it might compare with Persichetti...






I'm liking RS more than Pettersson these days,... I feel they 'sound' alike to me,... but Sessions is detached,... I'm having a hard time with those time spans and RS fits the bill with densely packed movements of reasonable length.

I'm listening to RS about 3-5 times a year,... was enjoying the Concerto for Orchestra (Ozawa/Hyperion), it's not really any mellower than the rest, but the closing pages do reveal an autumnal poetry, in the Sessions vernacular of course. The sound is is ripe!
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on October 02, 2011, 08:32:51 AM
I'm very fond of Roger Sessions's music, particularly the symphonies.  I actually find his music fairly easy to follow and enjoy, in contrast to, say, Carter or Gerhard.  Perhaps Sessions is just more on my wavelength.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on October 02, 2011, 06:41:33 PM
Quote from: Daverz on October 02, 2011, 08:32:51 AM
I'm very fond of Roger Sessions's music, particularly the symphonies.  I actually find his music fairly easy to follow and enjoy, in contrast to, say, Carter or Gerhard.  Perhaps Sessions is just more on my wavelength.

Thinking back to '60's Carter, and yea, he is pretty gnarly then. I am gearing up for the Gerhard Symphonies... haven't heard them yet,... but I can't imagine me not liking them.

Would you care to tell your fav Sesssions Symphonies? 3 & 5 HAVE MY FAVORITE 'ROCKING' THEME (whooops!). No.4 is just a touch lighter, and I do struggle a bit with 6,7 & 9, which are on that Argo disc. No.8 is on YouTube in both recordings, and that one may be the best of all.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on October 03, 2011, 06:01:25 AM
tap tap tap tap tap...


I'm not letting you go until you tell me how much you love Roger Sessions!! :-*
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on October 03, 2011, 01:03:43 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 02, 2011, 06:41:33 PM
Thinking back to '60's Carter, and yea, he is pretty gnarly then. I am gearing up for the Gerhard Symphonies... haven't heard them yet,... but I can't imagine me not liking them.

Would you care to tell your fav Sesssions Symphonies? 3 & 5 HAVE MY FAVORITE 'ROCKING' THEME (whooops!). No.4 is just a touch lighter, and I do struggle a bit with 6,7 & 9, which are on that Argo disc. No.8 is on YouTube in both recordings, and that one may be the best of all.

3 was the one that first grabbed me when I heard it on an RCA Lp.   After that, the New World CD with 4 & 5 is really good.  I think all the symphonies are now available on CD in stereo at arkivmusic and other places.  Collect them all.  There are also some broadcasts floating about, such as a broadcast of 2 by Previn and of 7 by Martinon. 

Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on October 03, 2011, 08:00:41 PM
Quote from: Daverz on October 03, 2011, 01:03:43 PM
3 was the one that first grabbed me when I heard on an RCA Lp.   After that, the New World CD with 4 & 5 is really good.  I think all the symphonies are now available on CD in stereo at arkivmusic and other places.  Collect them all.  There are also some broadcasts floating about, such as a broadcast of 2 by Previn and of 7 by Martinon.

7 by Martinon sounds interesting.

Did I forget to mention that I really like No.2 also? Blomstedt is tops here. What a great '40s Symphony, with a slow movemenrt inspired by the death of Roosevelt.

I must say though that I didn't like No.1 at all and haven't returned to it.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on October 05, 2011, 08:05:50 PM
     I've been listening to Sessions all week, and, my, how the tensions so rarely lets up! I'm finding Sessions extremely lucid in his development, with each strand standing out. He seems to only have portions playing at a time, so things almost move by like a kaleidoscope.

The atmosphere may not necessarily always be oppressive, but is frankly astounding at the stringency Sessions evokes. The strings always seem to be coming from some overheated thriller, and Sessions like instruments like the xylophone, though, amazingly, he does not evoke your typical stereotypes. Sessions's peculiarities are unique, as his use of maracas and tambourine like sounds, lots of almost strange hissing sounds coming from the percussions and the winds and brass.

The emotions in Sessions always seem detached, like a meta-emotion, a yearning for the Nation in Time of Crisis. More and more he seems like the antipode to Pettersson.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on October 06, 2011, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on October 03, 2011, 08:00:41 PM
7 by Martinon sounds interesting.

Did I forget to mention that I really like No.2 also? Blomstedt is tops here. What a great '40s Symphony, with a slow movemenrt inspired by the death of Roosevelt.

You might still be able to get the Previn here:

http://boomboomsky.blogspot.com/2009/06/roger-sessions-symphonies-nos2-7.html

If not, let me know.

Quote
I must say though that I didn't like No.1 at all and haven't returned to it.

This one is overdue for a new recording.  As are most of the symphonies, really.  I wonder why the usual suspects like Naxos, CPO, Chandos, Albany etc. haven't stepped up.  It's not like they haven't recorded difficult music before.  But perhaps the music is very difficult to play.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on October 06, 2011, 08:40:08 PM
Quote from: Daverz on October 06, 2011, 11:23:14 AM
You might still be able to get the Previn here:

http://boomboomsky.blogspot.com/2009/06/roger-sessions-symphonies-nos2-7.html

If not, let me know.

This one is overdue for a new recording.  As are most of the symphonies, really.  I wonder why the usual suspects like Naxos, CPO, Chandos, Albany etc. haven't stepped up.  It's not like they haven't recorded difficult music before.  But perhaps the music is very difficult to play.

Thanks, and yea, Davies should do No.3 at least for Albany most likely.

I was just listening to that 'Symphoniae Cum Fluxae'(?) :o by Carter and noticed a similarity to Sessions, though the difference was striking also. Sounded like Sessions No.13.
Title: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on January 27, 2013, 06:51:48 AM
I just acquired the symphonies of Roger Sessions on a whim, haven't heard Session's music, but I have a good feeling about these works, don't have the disks in front of me at the moment, but will report back when I can.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on January 27, 2013, 08:24:37 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on January 27, 2013, 06:51:48 AM
I just acquired the symphonies of Roger Sessions on a whim, haven't heard Session's music, but I have a good feeling about these works, don't have the disks in front of me at the moment, but will report back when I can.

Ahh, I was JUST listening to Symphony No.3, the first American 12-tone Symphony. Sessions's trademark is a 'rocking' theme that can be discerned at the beginnings of Nos.3 and 5, and the Piano Concerto.

I assume you also got the Davies set of 6/7/9? That is ONE meaty record there! ;)

Also, No.8 is a perfect distillation of his style.

Also, 4-5 on NewWorld.

No.2 is a wonderful Symphony from the '40s. Non-fans would do well to look here (Blomstedt on Decca!). No.1 I don't like at all.


I find a lot of similarities between Sessions and Pettersson, though, Sessions has NONE of the lyrical interludes,... yet, Sessions's tumult is a lot more controlled than AGP's. I hope you 'take' to Sessions: no one else around here seems to like him.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on January 27, 2013, 08:48:33 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 27, 2013, 08:24:37 AM
Ahh, I was JUST listening to Symphony No.3, the first American 12-tone Symphony. Sessions's trademark is a 'rocking' theme that can be discerned at the beginnings of Nos.3 and 5, and the Piano Concerto.

I assume you also got the Davies set of 6/7/9? That is ONE meaty record there! ;)

Also, No.8 is a perfect distillation of his style.

Also, 4-5 on NewWorld.

No.2 is a wonderful Symphony from the '40s. Non-fans would do well to look here (Blomstedt on Decca!). No.1 I don't like at all.


I find a lot of similarities between Sessions and Pettersson, though, Sessions has NONE of the lyrical interludes,... yet, Sessions's tumult is a lot more controlled than AGP's. I hope you 'take' to Sessions: no one else around here seems to like him.

Thanks snyprr, this is going to be a very interesting journey based on what I'm hearing now, this is my introduction to Sessions:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511NX8XCNHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I am listening to the First Symphony on this recording. The first movement was a mind-blower. Instantly accessible, great rhythms, and good and loud. We need a modern recordings of these works, but this will fill the bill in the meantime. The piccolo drives the finale by dancing demonically over staccato horns and trading solos with oboe and clarinet. The Largo features a heart-rending string theme developed with patience and sensitivity. A pastoral theme for oboe lightens the mood somewhat until the string theme returns to end the movement in despair. His neoclassical First (1927) shouldn't scare away anyone even mildly familiar with American symphonists like Piston. The energetic opening is rhythmically complex, yet contains the surreal woodwind interlude that I read would become a Sessions trademark.

Onwards to No.2 (1946)...The music contains solid statements of intent from a master of symphonic forces, no throwbacks to an old-fashioned musical tradition, nor a perverse anti-symphony meant to deconstruct the definition of vision, invention, and optimism for a more spacious artistic century. Can't wait to explore more!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on January 27, 2013, 02:27:48 PM
Quote from: Leo K. on January 27, 2013, 08:48:33 AM
Thanks snyprr, this is going to be a very interesting journey based on what I'm hearing now, this is my introduction to Sessions:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511NX8XCNHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I am listening to the First Symphony on this recording. The first movement was a mind-blower. Instantly accessible, great rhythms, and good and loud. We need a modern recordings of these works, but this will fill the bill in the meantime. The piccolo drives the finale by dancing demonically over staccato horns and trading solos with oboe and clarinet. The Largo features a heart-rending string theme developed with patience and sensitivity. A pastoral theme for oboe lightens the mood somewhat until the string theme returns to end the movement in despair. His neoclassical First (1927) shouldn't scare away anyone even mildly familiar with American symphonists like Piston. The energetic opening is rhythmically complex, yet contains the surreal woodwind interlude that I read would become a Sessions trademark.

Onwards to No.2 (1946)...The music contains solid statements of intent from a master of symphonic forces, no throwbacks to an old-fashioned musical tradition, nor a perverse anti-symphony meant to deconstruct the definition of vision, invention, and optimism for a more spacious artistic century. Can't wait to explore more!

You'll be craving a digital No.3 when you're done. No.2 is well served on Decca.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on January 28, 2013, 02:01:43 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 27, 2013, 02:27:48 PM
You'll be craving a digital No.3 when you're done.

Really?  That RCA recording is very good, though I'm sure CRI's transfer is not the last word.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on January 28, 2013, 08:09:49 AM
Quote from: Daverz on January 28, 2013, 02:01:43 AM
Really?  That RCA recording is very good, though I'm sure CRI's transfer is not the last word.

I'll admit that I came to the work through the LP, from the library, (can't remember), but the CRI transfer (if that's what it is) does make one long for DR Davies, and an Albany digital recording.

A digital 3rd might win Sessions some new listeners?
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on January 28, 2013, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 28, 2013, 08:09:49 AM
I'll admit that I came to the work through the LP, from the library, (can't remember), but the CRI transfer (if that's what it is) does make one long for DR Davies, and an Albany digital recording.

A digital 3rd might win Sessions some new listeners?

Yeah, I don't get it.  There are spectacular recordings of all the Gerhard symphonies, for example, on Lyrita and Chandos, but I just can't connect with his later works at all, for all their surface brilliance.  I find Sessions is much more accessible, but he seems to have acquired a forbidding reputation.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on January 29, 2013, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: Daverz on January 28, 2013, 09:17:46 PM
Yeah, I don't get it.  There are spectacular recordings of all the Gerhard symphonies, for example, on Lyrita and Chandos, but I just can't connect with his later works at all, for all their surface brilliance.  I find Sessions is much more accessible, but he seems to have acquired a forbidding reputation.

Well, around HERE :o... haha, it's you & me buddy!! ;) and Leo K., maybe springrite,... don't see MI here do ya?!?!?! ;D

Yes, if you can 'handle' Sessions, that's one thing, but to actively listen whilst driving and liking it, well, you are in an Elite Club fo' sho'!

(Do you have huge balls too? :o) :P

I'm about to pull for that No.8...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on January 29, 2013, 12:44:53 PM
I'm still wondering if even I have the testicular fortitude for that Divertimento/Idyll of Theocratus disc from the Lousiville(sic) folks? scurrred ???
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on February 02, 2013, 11:33:31 AM
Still listening and amazed by Roger Sessions! Listeing to 3rd, 4th, and 5th symphonies (Dennis Russell Davies) at the moment.



Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on February 03, 2013, 02:30:23 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 29, 2013, 12:44:53 PM
I'm still wondering if even I have the testicular fortitude for that Divertimento/Idyll of Theocratus disc from the Lousiville(sic) folks? scurrred ???

I saw rather nasty reviews, so I skipped that one.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: lescamil on February 03, 2013, 08:48:03 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 29, 2013, 10:38:06 AM
Yes, if you can 'handle' Sessions, that's one thing, but to actively listen whilst driving and liking it, well, you are in an Elite Club fo' sho'!

Actually, with me personally, I get my best listening done while driving. It also helps that I drive a few hundred miles a week and have plenty of things to listen to. Sessions has made its way on to my playlists on occasion. Great driving music!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on February 04, 2013, 06:02:44 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 29, 2013, 10:38:06 AM
Well, around HERE :o... haha, it's you & me buddy!! ;) and Leo K., maybe springrite,... don't see MI here do ya?!?!?! ;D

Yes, if you can 'handle' Sessions, that's one thing, but to actively listen whilst driving and liking it, well, you are in an Elite Club fo' sho'!

(Do you have huge balls too? :o) :P

I'm about to pull for that No.8...

Hmmm, I don't remember saying anything about listening to Sessions while driving.  I did mention in another thread that I had a tape of the Martin Violin Concerto in the car for a while.  I don't drive as much these days.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on February 04, 2013, 07:34:53 AM
Quote from: Daverz on February 04, 2013, 06:02:44 AM
Hmmm, I don't remember saying anything about listening to Sessions while driving.  I did mention in another thread that I had a tape of the Martin Violin Concerto in the car for a while.  I don't drive as much these days.

I'm the driving listener!

Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on February 05, 2013, 07:25:35 PM
Again pulled out the Concerto for Piano (Piano Concerto?),... I do love Sessions's 'rocking' theme. It figures just about everywhere is his music, most notably here, Sympgies (?!?!?!) 3, 5, 8, and... mm...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on February 06, 2013, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on February 05, 2013, 07:25:35 PM
Again pulled out the Concerto for Piano (Piano Concerto?),... I do love Sessions's 'rocking' theme. It figures just about everywhere is his music, most notably here, Sympgies (?!?!?!) 3, 5, 8, and... mm...

His music often reminds me of bebop.
Title: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on February 07, 2013, 03:09:08 PM
Quote from: Daverz on February 06, 2013, 04:32:16 PM
His music often reminds me of bebop.

That is a fantastic insight! Thanks for
that :)
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on February 08, 2013, 08:07:07 AM
Quote from: Daverz on February 06, 2013, 04:32:16 PM
His music often reminds me of bebop.

Whaaaaat?????? 'Splain. Isn't his music a little to jagged for that? That Ralph Shapey cd on CRI does have what sounds like... oh,... nevermind,... please, 'splain. :-[
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on February 11, 2013, 04:33:32 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on February 08, 2013, 08:07:07 AM
Whaaaaat?????? 'Splain. Isn't his music a little to jagged for that? That Ralph Shapey cd on CRI does have what sounds like... oh,... nevermind,... please, 'splain. :-[

I'm talking about the post-Swing Jazz style called Bebop, not Gene Vincent, if that's the confusion.  It's probably a combination of Sessions use of brass, the rhythms he uses, and the the nervous energy of the music.

From Wikipedia:

"Bebop differed drastically from the straightforward compositions of the swing era, and was instead characterized by fast tempos, asymmetrical phrasing, intricate melodies, and rhythm sections that expanded on their role as tempo-keepers. The music itself seemed jarringly different to the ears of the public, who were used to the bouncy, organized, danceable tunes of Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller during the swing era. Instead, bebop appeared to sound racing, nervous, and often fragmented."

[asin]B000089YB7[/asin]
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 18, 2013, 08:07:42 AM
Symphony No.8 (1968)

At 14 minutes, this is Sessions' most concentrated work (in two movements). It begins with the most curious sounding shakers, sounding like a rake through sand, with the foreboding strings. I think there is another work where Sessions used these 'shakers'.

Apparently it is his only total serialist work? It certainly has no time to waste on anything, and is marked by an extreme tightness, which sometimes loosens its texture to reveal a little violin solo, or what have you. All the same Sessions signposts are here, including the xylophone, the etched orchestrations, with punctuating bass drum, the angular melodies and tight strings.

Symphonies 6-8 were Sessions' 'War Symphonies' (Vietnam), and one certainly hears the darkness in all three. No. 8 has a particular foreboding which feels like the aftermath to some great nuclear accident.

I realize as I'm writing that I can't tell one apart from the other (6-9; Concerto for Orchestra (Symphony 10)) because Sessions' language is so integrated that he obviously has to reuse all his tricks all the time. The main reason I used the last of my unemployment money on Sessions is because there's enough MEAT here to keep me busy so I don't fret about not having anything new to listen to. When the chips are down, go for a tough nut!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 21, 2013, 06:50:47 PM
Piano Concerto

We all know this piece by way of a classic old NewWorld recording. Being on a Sessions roll, I pulled it out today.

My what a delicate piece. It's like Schoenberg's in its chamber-like quality, but the melody and rhythm have been totally liberated from the older forms. The piece is quite transparent, and has an almost magical garden feel to it (though, it's by no means Szymanowski!). It begins with the classic Sessions 'rocking' motion that I love so much, and grows fairly organically. One is drawn to its complexity, and follows the argument fairly easily. Melody has been most turned into dramatic gesture, percolating bubbles from the piano, dramatic shards tossed of only to wilt into the tapestry.

I might have to rate this my single favorite PC of the War Generation.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 22, 2013, 08:51:42 AM
I'm not going to let you ignore Sessions, haha! :laugh:
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2013, 04:22:12 AM
Thanks for the nudge.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2013, 04:45:25 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on May 21, 2013, 06:50:47 PM
Piano Concerto

We all know this piece by way of a classic old NewWorld recording.

There's also a recording led by Jimmy (same soloist, Robert Taub), which ought to be better still. Agreed, an outstanding piece!

On its strength, I've run not walked to download the Symphonies nos. 6, 7 & 9.

Sorry to be late, but it's a heck of a party, innit?
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 23, 2013, 06:23:08 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 23, 2013, 04:45:25 AM
There's also a recording led by Jimmy (same soloist, Robert Taub), which ought to be better still. Agreed, an outstanding piece!

On its strength, I've run not walked to download the Symphonies nos. 6, 7 & 9.

Sorry to be late, but it's a heck of a party, innit?


I just saw the Levine/Taub yesterday. Yes, lots of good stuff there. The PC IS a very delicate piece.

ALSO checked the samples for his Violin Concerto. WoW!, it's quite something beautiful. I'd go with Zukofsky.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Sean on May 23, 2013, 09:12:22 AM
Sessions is American swagger and spirit added to serial fecklessness.

Not to be too dampening guys but he's another talent as going back to Schoenberg signing up with the wrong crowd.

Best, Sean
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2013, 09:17:01 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on May 23, 2013, 06:23:08 AM
I just saw the Levine/Taub yesterday. Yes, lots of good stuff there. The PC IS a very delicate piece.

ALSO checked the samples for his Violin Concerto. WoW!, it's quite something beautiful. I'd go with Zukofsky.

When you're right, you're right. Nice to see Gunther Schuller on his game!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Octave on May 23, 2013, 09:17:46 AM
Quote from: Sean on May 23, 2013, 09:12:22 AM
Sessions is American swagger and spirit added to serial fecklessness.

Sign me up!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2013, 09:22:26 AM
And the low-fi YouTube edition:

http://www.youtube.com/v/HZwndZGzTPM
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2013, 09:38:03 AM
I love little bits like, the five notes of an ascending minor scale in the unison brasses at 06:19
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2013, 10:00:37 AM
I'd officially call the Vn Cto a keeper, what do you say, snypsss?
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
A little trippy, isn't it, that both Ives and Sessions studied with Horatio Parker?
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 23, 2013, 01:34:50 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 23, 2013, 10:00:37 AM
I'd officially call the Vn Cto a keeper, what do you say, snypsss?

Yea, I'm listening, and, EVERYBODY should love this one. Stack it up against Prokofiev, Bartok, Berg, Shosty, etc.,... not to mention Barber,... I mean, this thing is American Gothic! Not quite the intensity of Ruggles, which is good! Yea, the bell needs to be rung on this one. The 1st String Quartet is also wonderfully dark (you have that old Koch disc?).

If you hate Sessions, try the Violin Concerto.


I had the Argo disc (6, 7, & 9) in the car today. One of the Amazon Reviewers wasn't too kind to this performance, but, I'm not gonna hear it. I concentrated on 6: there are some felicitous moments of orchestration that reveal Sessions's ear for detail. This Argo disc is a monster!

I also listened to the slow movement of No.3 (CRI). You have this one Karl? No.3 is really a huge Symphony, very well balanced. It also has some of the American Gothic (which I think Sessions lost in the '60s). Sessions's 3rd ranks up there with me.

I might need to pull the Piano Sonatas next...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 23, 2013, 02:14:59 PM
Getting ready to take the Concerto for Orchestra (Hyperion) for a spin.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: lescamil on May 23, 2013, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on May 23, 2013, 02:14:59 PM
Getting ready to take the Concerto for Orchestra (Hyperion) for a spin.

The Panufnik Sinfonia Votiva is well worth your time as well! It makes for a nice breath of fresh air after the Sessions.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Sean on May 24, 2013, 12:01:13 AM
Snyprrr, the Concerto for orchestra is a memorable work in its own way, as indeed with much of Session's stirring output; however its logic's been rightly described as easier to sense than follow, ie intellectually manufactured rather than tonally intuitive. No bun fights though- it's very nice to know someone into this repertory.

By the way Naxos has a recording of the Divertimento- d'you know without me researching how significant a work it is, if I find time to invest for it?

Quote from: snyprrr on May 23, 2013, 02:14:59 PM
Getting ready to take the Concerto for Orchestra (Hyperion) for a spin.

Title: Re: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 24, 2013, 02:55:11 AM
Quote from: Sean on May 24, 2013, 12:01:13 AM
... By the way Naxos has a recording of the Divertimento- d'you know without me researching how significant a work it is, if I find time to invest for it?

Dude, just listen to it! ; )

I don't know how significant it is, but I listened to the first movement yesterday, and it is a piece I'll return to.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 24, 2013, 07:15:01 AM
Quote from: Sean on May 24, 2013, 12:01:13 AM
Snyprrr, the Concerto for orchestra is a memorable work in its own way, as indeed with much of Session's stirring output; however its logic's been rightly described as easier to sense than follow, ie intellectually manufactured rather than tonally intuitive. No bun fights though- it's very nice to know someone into this repertory.

By the way Naxos has a recording of the Divertimento- d'you know without me researching how significant a work it is, if I find time to invest for it?

That's the line from The Penguin Guide, isn't it?? I remember that, haha!!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Sean on May 24, 2013, 11:51:03 AM
Karl, indeed one should just listen- couldn't agree more; I guess I was just wondering if it's a particularly well thought of effort...

Snyprrr, yes that's right. I first bought the 1984 Penguin and still like the books.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 25, 2013, 07:29:10 AM
Nor do I believe that easier to sense than follow maps onto intellectually manufactured rather than tonally intuitive. In fact, the phrase seems to me to suggest that the composer succeeded in creating music which the listener can perceive, without requiring the 'road map'.

snypsss, I do think the Vn Cto is more successful than the Schuman (and largely, I think the Schuman a fine, fine piece).
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Sean on May 25, 2013, 08:36:15 AM
The phrase is ambiguous, yes.

What I do find striking about Sessions is his huge American confidence and panache- the symphonies I've tried are some of the most assured atonal writing there is.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on May 25, 2013, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Sean on May 25, 2013, 08:36:15 AM
The phrase is ambiguous, yes.

What I do find striking about Sessions is his huge American confidence and panache- the symphonies I've tried are some of the most assured atonal writing there is.

That's the impression I'm left with. I'm wondering now about Searle, Frankel, Toch, Wellesz, Krenek, and the like.

I was listening again to Symphony No.3. There's a wondrous amount of stuff going on here, making me think of a tapestry. Though Sessions may be employing Schoenberg, I'm thankful that Sessions has his own toolbox of melodic and rhythmic invention. Session's rocking/ticking theme is interwoven in most all of his mature works, like a motto, and perhaps it is this seizing on a 'trademark' that I love so much. It got somewhat tiresome with me with Shostakovich, perhaps because of the programme, but with Sessions, it seems the motto is more abstractly based, so that my enjoyment of it isn't linked to any particular visual stimulus.

btw- have you gone hari hari on us?? :-* ;)
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Sean on May 25, 2013, 10:27:36 AM
I haven't got to know much by Sessions, only

Concerto for orchestra, Symphonies Nos.7-9, The Black maskers suite & String quartet No.2

I didn't really like Searle's symphonies, very continental, and Frankel's expressionism wears off after a while; I do know that great long dull symphony by Kreneck, and I'll have to check my lists for the other two- again they didn't make a huge impact. Toch kept a rather lighter palate if I remember though.

Shostak's ticking in the 4th & 15th is great stuff...

And no, I'm not in the Hare Krishna movement, I'm just Hindu. Best, Sean
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on May 25, 2013, 10:36:59 AM
Quote from: Sean on May 25, 2013, 08:36:15 AM
[T]he symphonies I've tried are some of the most assured atonal writing there is.

I think, that if you did not blinker yourself with the needless and erroneous idea that all music has gone downhill after Wagner, you would find that there is a wealth of assured atonal writing. And that it's good for the soul.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Sean on May 25, 2013, 05:46:27 PM
Going downhill and at an ever greater angle of attack, soon to hit the ground.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Rons_talking on June 23, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
Ever since I heard thrilling 2nd piano sonata of Sessions I've been a fan. His works have complex rhythms, but not for the sake of being difficult; colorful orchestrations, but not for the sake of being more accessable, highly dense harmonies, but not for the sake of being modern. Nearly all of his mature works are 1st rate and have the composer's distinctive sound. My favorites are his 5-9th Symphonies and most of his solo piano works, esp. the 2nd Sonata. They're all so powerful and brilliantly structured.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on June 24, 2013, 03:45:38 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on June 23, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
Ever since I heard thrilling 2nd piano sonata of Sessions I've been a fan. His works have complex rhythms, but not for the sake of being difficult; colorful orchestrations, but not for the sake of being more accessable, highly dense harmonies, but not for the sake of being modern. Nearly all of his mature works are 1st rate and have the composer's distinctive sound. My favorites are his 5-9th Symphonies and most of his solo piano works, esp. the 2nd Sonata. They're all so powerful and brilliantly structured.

Thanks, and nice to meet you!

Anyone know what the actual marking is for the third movement of the Ninth Symphony?  The Amazon mps have Allegro e tranguillo for the third movement of each of the Sixth, Seventh & Ninth; and apart from the misspelling of tranquillo, it's got to be a mistake in all three cases.

TIA.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Parsifal on June 24, 2013, 07:08:00 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 24, 2013, 03:45:38 AM
Thanks, and nice to meet you!

Anyone know what the actual marking is for the third movement of the Ninth Symphony?  The Amazon mps have Allegro e tranguillo for the third movement of each of the Sixth, Seventh & Ninth; and apart from the misspelling of tranquillo, it's got to be a mistake in all three cases.

TIA.


Symphony No.6 - I. Allegro
Symphony No.6 - II. Adagio e tranquillo    
Symphony No.6 - III. Allegro moderato    
Symphony No.7 - I. Allegro con fuoco    
Symphony No.7 - II. Lento e dolce
Symphony No.7 - III. Allegro misurato    
Symphony No.9 - I. Allegro: Impetuoso - Tranquillo
Symphony No.9 - II. Con movimento adagio - Doppio movimento quasi allegretto -
Symphony No.9 - III. Allegro vivace
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on June 24, 2013, 07:17:42 AM
Thank you.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on June 25, 2013, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on June 23, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
Ever since I heard thrilling 2nd piano sonata of Sessions I've been a fan. His works have complex rhythms, but not for the sake of being difficult; colorful orchestrations, but not for the sake of being more accessable, highly dense harmonies, but not for the sake of being modern. Nearly all of his mature works are 1st rate and have the composer's distinctive sound. My favorites are his 5-9th Symphonies and most of his solo piano works, esp. the 2nd Sonata. They're all so powerful and brilliantly structured.

When I need 'it', Sessions is one of the few... if not... well, he's one of the few who satisfies that need for a pure abstraction. I equate the 'feeling' with Xenakis too.

I do find some similarities between Pettersson and Sessions, though, as others have noted, it is superficial.

Welcome to The Roger Sessions!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on April 01, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
This week is going to be mostly devoted to Sessions. I've acquired some broadcasts (Ormandy/no.5 and Martinon/no.7 to name a few). Can't wait!

Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on April 01, 2014, 03:30:03 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 23, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
A little trippy, isn't it, that both Ives and Sessions studied with Horatio Parker?

I know right? I just finished Gayle Sherwood Magee's book on Ives, and again I'm impressed by Parker's exhausting efforts to educate the next generation of composers (he died young as a result I think).
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on April 02, 2014, 07:59:22 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on April 01, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
This week is going to be mostly devoted to Sessions. I've acquired some broadcasts (Ormandy/no.5 and Martinon/no.7 to name a few). Can't wait!

Yes, please compare and report!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on April 02, 2014, 08:04:44 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on April 01, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
This week is going to be mostly devoted to Sessions. I've acquired some broadcasts (Ormandy/no.5 and Martinon/no.7 to name a few). Can't wait!

Where did you get the Ormandy?  I have the Martinon broadcast, and also a broadcast of Previn conducting Symphony No. 2.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on April 02, 2014, 08:27:45 AM
Quote from: Daverz on April 02, 2014, 08:04:44 AM
Where did you get the Ormandy?  I have the Martinon broadcast, and also a broadcast of Previn conducting Symphony No. 2.

I  must say, I really like Blomstedt's 2nd. All of Sessions' "major label" appearances have been sonically well taken care of (not to mention performances). One could certainly use an Albany/New World recording of No.3!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on April 14, 2014, 07:38:06 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on April 01, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
This week is going to be mostly devoted to Sessions. I've acquired some broadcasts (Ormandy/no.5 and Martinon/no.7 to name a few). Can't wait!

How did all that go? I need some Sessions Tonic after all this fluffy music this week!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on April 14, 2014, 01:47:18 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on April 14, 2014, 07:38:06 AM
How did all that go? I need some Sessions Tonic after all this fluffy music this week!

It was excellant! I haven't heard the Martinon yet, but the Ormandy S5 and de Waart S6 are fantastic performances, with pretty good sound, especially de Waart's S6, where the sound is more open and less compressed than Davies' commercially released recording.

I was so inspired I ordered a couple OOP Sessions books by Sessions scholar Andrea Olmstead. Her 'Music of Roger Sessions" is a great reference!

Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on February 04, 2015, 07:38:01 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on April 14, 2014, 01:47:18 PM
It was excellant! I haven't heard the Martinon yet, but the Ormandy S5 and de Waart S6 are fantastic performances, with pretty good sound, especially de Waart's S6, where the sound is more open and less compressed than Davies' commercially released recording.

I was so inspired I ordered a couple OOP Sessions books by Sessions scholar Andrea Olmstead. Her 'Music of Roger Sessions" is a great reference!

Time for the yearly Sessions bump
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Cato on February 04, 2015, 08:13:30 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on February 04, 2015, 07:38:01 AM
Time for the yearly Sessions bump

emusic.com offers a fairly nice selection of works by Roger Sessions and lesser known American composers.

http://www.emusic.com/browse/album/all/composer:29/ (http://www.emusic.com/browse/album/all/composer:29/)
Title: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Leo K. on February 04, 2015, 08:38:11 PM
It's definitely time to hear some Sessions again!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Rons_talking on February 05, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
I've been revisiting the Sessions symphonies after a couple years of abstanance. I'm not as entranced with his complexity as I once was. Too many blatently disjunct intervals and more layers than necessary, at times (IMO). Also, the harmony often seems only a by-product of short-lived simultanaeties (not in all his symphonies). Not that I object to any of that in moderation. But a long symphonic work that seemingly rarely breaths is a lot to take in. In the past, I'd replay the same movement a few times until I could really hear it. I no longer believe that should be required of a well-trained listener.
But I've been a fan of Sessions's music for decades. The 7th S is my clear-cut favorite today. I like its use of quiet and the harp/ww ostinati that adds flavor on occasion.
I'll listen some more...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on February 06, 2015, 08:44:05 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 05, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
I've been revisiting the Sessions symphonies after a couple years of abstanance. I'm not as entranced with his complexity as I once was. Too many blatently disjunct intervals and more layers than necessary, at times (IMO). Also, the harmony often seems only a by-product of short-lived simultanaeties (not in all his symphonies). Not that I object to any of that in moderation. But a long symphonic work that seemingly rarely breaths is a lot to take in. In the past, I'd replay the same movement a few times until I could really hear it. I no longer believe that should be required of a well-trained listener.
But I've been a fan of Sessions's music for decades. The 7th S is my clear-cut favorite today. I like its use of quiet and the harp/ww ostinati that adds flavor on occasion.
I'll listen some more...

Oh, such a well written critique,... yes, one cannot really JUST dismiss Sessions out-of-hand without at least a grudging nod to the sheer AMOUNT of information being presented (like Pettersson superficially, perhaps?). I have been gearing up for a revisit, but, because I know what I'm in for, I make sure I'm in the mood. I can sympathize with your too-many-notes weariness, and it would weary me too if I don't "exercise" BEFORE I jump in to a Sessions bloodbath.

Composers who use "too many notes" (like Pettersson, Barrett,... the "profusion" camp (Boulez's theory))I reserve for those times when I REALLY need the cobwebs out,... but, yes, one can't listen to Sessions every day,... he is like a tonic...


Do you have No.8? Both recordings are on YT. It is echt-Sessions in 15 minutes, with lots of eddies... and I believe harp and 'misterioso' rumblings...Sessions is the man who has turned the Devil Into Numbers, taking... then putting back, the terror into music.

Nos. 6-7 are supposed to be Vietnam "War" Symphonies. Can one hear this?

I do like the No.5 on that Badea/New World disc,... always waiting on a modenr No.3 (Albany!!!! shame on you... Davies!!! shame on you!!!)

One just doesn't get the pound-for-pound note-mileage that one gets from the likes of Sessions. Sure, he deals in an anachronistic "Dodecaphonic" (read: blatantly "pro"Schoenberg (hint hint)) style,... ahhh, nostalgia,... Sessions is like an old b+w movie to me, comforting,... like looking back on Sciene's Mistakes and feeling smug,...

aye, wish I had my Sessions stash here,... maybe No.8???.... (goes on recon)...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Rons_talking on February 07, 2015, 09:26:17 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on February 06, 2015, 08:44:05 AM
Oh, such a well written critique,... yes, one cannot really JUST dismiss Sessions out-of-hand without at least a grudging nod to the sheer AMOUNT of information being presented (like Pettersson superficially, perhaps?). I have been gearing up for a revisit, but, because I know what I'm in for, I make sure I'm in the mood. I can sympathize with your too-many-notes weariness, and it would weary me too if I don't "exercise" BEFORE I jump in to a Sessions bloodbath.

Composers who use "too many notes" (like Pettersson, Barrett,... the "profusion" camp (Boulez's theory))I reserve for those times when I REALLY need the cobwebs out,... but, yes, one can't listen to Sessions every day,... he is like a tonic...


Do you have No.8? Both recordings are on YT. It is echt-Sessions in 15 minutes, with lots of eddies... and I believe harp and 'misterioso' rumblings...Sessions is the man who has turned the Devil Into Numbers, taking... then putting back, the terror into music.

Nos. 6-7 are supposed to be Vietnam "War" Symphonies. Can one hear this?

I do like the No.5 on that Badea/New World disc,... always waiting on a modenr No.3 (Albany!!!! shame on you... Davies!!! shame on you!!!)

One just doesn't get the pound-for-pound note-mileage that one gets from the likes of Sessions. Sure, he deals in an anachronistic "Dodecaphonic" (read: blatantly "pro"Schoenberg (hint hint)) style,... ahhh, nostalgia,... Sessions is like an old b+w movie to me, comforting,... like looking back on Sciene's Mistakes and feeling smug,...

aye, wish I had my Sessions stash here,... maybe No.8???.... (goes on recon)...

Thanks for the complement. I did indeed listen to S8  and it's a more lyrical piece than many of Sessions's Symphonic works ( hard to describe Sessions as "lyrical"). Though these works (after the early 50s) are 12-tone, he seems to employ a personal motivic style where rhythm and color are important structural entities; he's still a little Romantic in that sense. But every note has a function, and that's what frustrates me as a listener: there is so much to digest. On you tube there is an interesting recorded seminar with Milton Babbit and David Diamond (both Sessions pupils), and as disperate as their careers and output is, they agree that Sessions is America's finest compositional mind. That says a lot to me...Babbit and Diamond would not agree on ANYTHING musical...seemingly. Someone needs to make a great recording of his sumphonies, since it's so hard to lock-in to what he is getting at. Maybe there are some I don't know about. I'd like to know.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on February 28, 2015, 07:23:44 AM
just got the whole Sessions collection from the storage... feasting soon... start with no.8...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions SYMPHONY NO.8
Post by: snyprrr on March 01, 2015, 01:49:16 PM
Symphony No.8

The last of the three 'War Symphonies' from the '60s, this mercurial, lithely limbed and glitteringly coloured is a 15 minute, single movement Masterpiece that opening with... is it maracas? Sessions has such a way that, the seemingly random percussive shaking/rustling comes as the brilliant stroke of genius one could muster, such triviality underscoring an instant gloom as the music gains momentum.

Along with the Piano Concerto and the Symphony No.5, shows up Sessions's Art in the classic one-movement designs, where his total integration principle is most usefully set forth. If one simply listens one-note-after-another, one should have no problem following the trajectories of his musical games.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions SYMPHONY NO.8
Post by: Rons_talking on March 01, 2015, 04:24:23 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on March 01, 2015, 01:49:16 PM
Symphony No.8

The last of the three 'War Symphonies' from the '60s, this mercurial, lithely limbed and glitteringly coloured is a 15 minute, single movement Masterpiece that opening with... is it maracas? Sessions has such a way that, the seemingly random percussive shaking/rustling comes as the brilliant stroke of genius one could muster, such triviality underscoring an instant gloom as the music gains momentum.

Along with the Piano Concerto and the Symphony No.5, shows up Sessions's Art in the classic one-movement designs, where his total integration principle is most usefully set forth. If one simply listens one-note-after-another, one should have no problem following the trajectories of his musical games.

You're right! Session's music seems to gain momentum through rhythmic layering and the sometimes almost theatrical use of percussion. It has always seemed to me that his movements are just longer pauses; often his pitch material resumes at mid-sentence with new movements. But the wacky use of percussion--which is a part of his style--is a sinister irony that always pushes the music forward. I smile when I think about it.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions SYMPHONY NO.8
Post by: snyprrr on March 03, 2015, 05:01:56 PM
Quote from: Rons_talking on March 01, 2015, 04:24:23 PM
You're right! Session's music seems to gain momentum through rhythmic layering and the sometimes almost theatrical use of percussion. It has always seemed to me that his movements are just longer pauses; often his pitch material resumes at mid-sentence with new movements. But the wacky use of percussion--which is a part of his style--is a sinister irony that always pushes the music forward. I smile when I think about it.

will preview 6-7 over the coming weekishness
Title: Re: Roger Sessions
Post by: vandermolen on February 03, 2016, 12:05:39 PM
Quote from: Daverz on October 02, 2011, 08:32:51 AM
I'm very fond of Roger Sessions's music, particularly the symphonies.  I actually find his music fairly easy to follow and enjoy, in contrast to, say, Carter or Gerhard.  Perhaps Sessions is just more on my wavelength.
Have been listening to 'The Black Maskers' today which I like very much - have ordered a CD of his symphonies 1-3.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: bhodges on February 04, 2016, 05:43:10 AM
This recent recording (2014) by Miranda Cuckson has Sessions's Sonata for Solo Violin (1953), which I have also heard her do live. Highly recommended for those who like the composer, and Cuckson is fantastic in this kind of repertoire. The Carter and Eckardt works are excellent, too, with Blair McMillen, a formidable new music pianist.

[asin]B00HZMRUT0[/asin]

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on February 04, 2016, 06:12:43 AM
Oh, that does look mighty tasty, Bruce!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: bhodges on February 04, 2016, 06:20:07 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on February 04, 2016, 06:12:43 AM
Oh, that does look mighty tasty, Bruce!

8)

Not to digress from Sessions, but this recording with Cuckson is also pretty swell. It's also on Urlicht, a relatively new label.

[asin]B00N5ND5II[/asin]

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Rons_talking on February 05, 2016, 05:35:37 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on February 04, 2015, 08:38:11 PM
It's definitely time to hear some Sessions again!

As complex as some ...all of his music can be what pulls me into the Sessions sound world is the pure energy(must be the rhythms). I never hear serenity in his music--there's always tension and excitement... Kind of classical heavy metal with something new to hear with each listen and no holds barred. Not to oversimplify his work; it's the complexity that generates the power. I've been known to crank his music when driving...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on February 05, 2016, 06:41:04 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 05, 2016, 05:35:37 AM
As complex as some ...all of his music can be what pulls me into the Sessions sound world is the pure energy(must be the rhythms). I never hear serenity in his music--there's always tension and excitement... Kind of classical heavy metal with something new to hear with each listen and no holds barred. Not to oversimplify his work; it's the complexity that generates the power. I've been known to crank his music when driving...

Sessions & Babbitt... mm mm mm... I seem to love the apparent cool distancing of the US Total Serialists, as, say, opposed to Stockhausen- the Americans are more... what?... "up front"? Lots of tension without human emotions- movement, activity, life force...momentum... just the elements that keep you going- even in the face of such, technically, alien musics.
Title: Re: Roger Sessions (1896-1985)
Post by: Scion7 on March 14, 2016, 09:00:41 AM
Didn't Hahn state in an interview she planned to tackle the Violin Concerto?
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Scion7 on March 14, 2016, 10:11:05 PM
The Sonata for (solo) Violin ç1953 on this LP from 1963 is impressive:

(https://cdn.discogs.com/sDtrzWjXOM5_xY7eOckiZQAkJeg=/fit-in/500x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(96)/discogs-images/R-1322230-1395714807-6813.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions - unrecorded?
Post by: Scion7 on March 15, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
While there is a piano piece here and there that hasn't had an official release,
this (to me) seems to be a glaring omission:

Concerto for Violin, Violoncello, and Orchestra  (1971) - which is some 20 minutes long

The Double Concerto, commissioned by Juilliard for its sixty-fifth anniversary (in 1970), was premiered on November 5, 1971. Its two soloists were violinist Paul Zukofsky and cellist John Sessions (son of the composer); the two also played the work at Northwestern University and at the Aspen Music Festival.*

* from Roger Sessions: A Biography, by Olmstead

Title: Re: Roger Sessions (1896-1985)
Post by: Mahlerian on September 16, 2016, 11:38:37 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on March 14, 2016, 09:00:41 AM
Didn't Hahn state in an interview she planned to tackle the Violin Concerto?

Oh, I hope she does.  That would give the work a much-needed boost.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions - unrecorded?
Post by: snyprrr on September 16, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on March 15, 2016, 03:42:15 PM
While there is a piano piece here and there that hasn't had an official release,
this (to me) seems to be a glaring omission:

Concerto for Violin, Violoncello, and Orchestra  (1971) - which is some 20 minutes long

The Double Concerto, commissioned by Juilliard for its sixty-fifth anniversary (in 1970), was premiered on November 5, 1971. Its two soloists were violinist Paul Zukofsky and cellist John Sessions (son of the composer); the two also played the work at Northwestern University and at the Aspen Music Festival.*

* from Roger Sessions: A Biography, by Olmstead

I'm sure if you use your imagination, you can picture a NewWorld disc from 1987 (it would look something like the Babbitt PC disc)... yea, sadly that is probably just not going to happen (maybe Bridge?), ...I do believe that that is the only real omission, however... maybe the tape sucked? ahhhhh....

I'm always so glad to see this Thread,... isn't it curious how so many of us cite RS at the very very top?
One can still enjoy the Piano Concerto...
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions PIANO SONATA NO.2
Post by: snyprrr on January 09, 2017, 06:38:07 AM
Piano Sonata No.2 (1946)

I'm comparing three different recordings, Salwen (Koch), Lawson (Virgin), and Hodgkinson (NewWorld). Frankly, there's not much to compare. Lawson takes the 'Lento' much slower than the other two, almost to compel listening, whereas it goes by before you know it with the other two, but otherwise, all three hit the same notes- I might give the nod to Lawson, who, though he gives a little more space to the notes, doesn't sound any less frenetic in the more violent moments of the outer movements. All have different sounding recordings, but all seem to absorb all the "crunchy" notes without any harshness, and this is a work that has a lot of spikes.

Musically, it's not something I'm all that fond of. It's a 12 minute Serial work in a 1940s guise. Three movements. Lots of activity, but- well, if I were to compare, I might prefer Boulez's Sonata No.1 just for the extra imagination. Sessions is a little "hammery", - if this is what musical anger sounds like, I don't know, maybe it's just the violence of the musical argument itself?

Session's Piano Music is the epitome of somewhat ugly Serialism. He just doesn't care, he's doing what he's doing, and that's that. I have to be in the mood for this much banging around. I much prefer Babbitt's more delicate complexity.

Still, and I do like Session's Sonata No.1 a lot, there is a lot to like in Session's Piano Music. If you're in the mood, the Salwen complete set is great- the only other pianist to tackle these is David Holzman (Albany/Bridge), but I'm not sure if I heard on the samples that his recording and playing were just a bit too incisive and brutal for me- the recording seemed quite bright, though, it also seemed as if the notes were "absorbed" and not sticking out of the recording like rose thorns. This is music that seems difficult to reign in in a recording.

Anyone?
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Mahlerian on January 09, 2017, 06:47:50 AM
The Second Sonata isn't serial at all.  Of the three, only the Third uses Sessions's personal adaptation of the 12-tone technique.  For that matter, I don't find it ugly; it is violent, to be sure, and the final movement's grotesque march is intentionally quite "crunchy," but the middle movement adagio is extremely delicate, and the first movement has some remarkable flights of fantasy.

Also, Sessions' music is really written from a Romantic perspective of expression.  Like Schoenberg, his music is supposed to be played with emotion and feeling, and this does indeed put him in contrast to the cooler, wittier Babbitt.

I enjoyed Holzman's recordings of all three sonatas, personally, and his Second comes with fine recordings of works featuring the violin as well.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions PIANO SONATA NO.2
Post by: Cato on January 09, 2017, 06:54:01 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on January 09, 2017, 06:47:50 AM
The Second Sonata isn't serial at all.  Of the three, only the Third uses Sessions's personal adaptation of the 12-tone technique.  For that matter, I don't find it ugly; it is violent, to be sure, and the final movement's grotesque march is intentionally quite "crunchy," but the middle movement adagio is extremely delicate, and the first movement has some remarkable flights of fantasy.

Also, Sessions' music is really written from a Romantic perspective of expression.  Like Schoenberg, his music is supposed to be played with emotion and feeling, and this does indeed put him in contrast to the cooler, wittier Babbitt.


Amen!

Snyprr:  check out Beveridge Webster on YouTube!  See if you change your mind about the "ugliness" of the piece!

I have not listened to it in years, but the oldie LP recording by Beveridge Webster still sounds great!

https://www.youtube.com/v/GZoRszmzw2g
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: snyprrr on January 10, 2017, 06:23:01 AM
Quote from: Cato on January 09, 2017, 06:54:01 AM
Amen!

Snyprr:  check out Beveridge Webster on YouTube!  See if you change your mind about the "ugliness" of the piece!

I have not listened to it in years, but the oldie LP recording by Beveridge Webster still sounds great!

https://www.youtube.com/v/GZoRszmzw2g

Quote from: Mahlerian on January 09, 2017, 06:47:50 AM
The Second Sonata isn't serial at all.  Of the three, only the Third uses Sessions's personal adaptation of the 12-tone technique.  For that matter, I don't find it ugly; it is violent, to be sure, and the final movement's grotesque march is intentionally quite "crunchy," but the middle movement adagio is extremely delicate, and the first movement has some remarkable flights of fantasy.

Also, Sessions' music is really written from a Romantic perspective of expression.  Like Schoenberg, his music is supposed to be played with emotion and feeling, and this does indeed put him in contrast to the cooler, wittier Babbitt.

I enjoyed Holzman's recordings of all three sonatas, personally, and his Second comes with fine recordings of works featuring the violin as well.

OK, it's not Serial, but,... mm,... it's just got TOO MANY NOTES for me, lol. I listened to the Webster, but it sounded no different than the three from yesterday,... which, I suppose, shows the consistency of the piece!?! I think I would need the delicacy of a Ranki to fully appreciate the fist fulls of notes,... it seems the music demands an airtight recording venue and crystalline and uber delicate playing. However, I'm not arguing here...

I do like the 'Lento', sure. I think I just don't like the outer movements' themes, perhaps? It all sounds "plonky, bonky" to me, kind of like Boulez No.2 (Pollini), but that piece does the "flaying" more to my liking. Here it seems as if Sessions is in between two worlds, not able (because the language hasn't advanced that far in 1946?) to go fully over the top.

I mean, sorry if I hear just a touch of the "clangy",... no matter who plays it, I'm still hearing the same things,... I'll see if Holzman's on YT...

Yea, I suppose I need my AvantGarde to be more cerebral and less overtly "emotional",... maybe I'm just done with Germanic Expressionism as Music? The only "emotion" I ever seem to hear is hysterical anger and/or horror (Schoenberg writing his String Trio as an "ode to heart attack").

Yes, the Sessions isn't the most "bangy, clanky" piece in existence, it does have delicacy,... I mean,... I mean,... I wasn't having the same issues with Carter's Sonata (of the same year?).

Could you compare the Sessions with the Carter for me? Yea, the Carter doesn't really start off with all the busy activity...


I think again, the Lawson, with the tighter and "duller" Virgin sound, seems to absorb this piece the best for me. And, he does stretch out the 'Lento' by two minutes to no ill effect.



I think the main problem I'm having is "mid range fatigue": the violence does seem to all occur in that mid range where it "attacks my ear", kind of wanting to induce a "concentration migraine"??!! oy vei, I'm sure I'm just digging my hole deeper now, haha...

OK, ... UNCLE!! UNCLE!!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on January 10, 2017, 06:26:37 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 10, 2017, 06:23:01 AM
OK, it's not Serial, but,... mm,... it's just got TOO MANY NOTES for me, lol.

[ snip ]

OK, ... UNCLE!! UNCLE!!

Cleaned that up for you  0:)
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Mahlerian on January 10, 2017, 06:36:24 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 10, 2017, 06:23:01 AMI do like the 'Lento', sure. I think I just don't like the outer movements' themes, perhaps? It all sounds "plonky, bonky" to me, kind of like Boulez No.2 (Pollini), but that piece does the "flaying" more to my liking. Here it seems as if Sessions is in between two worlds, not able (because the language hasn't advanced that far in 1946?) to go fully over the top.

The two pieces are very different, and the Sessions is indeed the more traditional of the two in its treatment of form and development.  But going "over the top" is not the point.  Would we criticize Mendelssohn for not being as "out there" as Berlioz or Schumann?  Mendelssohn has his own things to say, separate from them, and likewise Sessions.

Quote from: snyprrr on January 10, 2017, 06:23:01 AMYea, I suppose I need my AvantGarde to be more cerebral and less overtly "emotional",... maybe I'm just done with Germanic Expressionism as Music? The only "emotion" I ever seem to hear is hysterical anger and/or horror (Schoenberg writing his String Trio as an "ode to heart attack").

That's true of some people's reactions, but I certainly find that there's a much wider range of emotion in the music of Schoenberg and Sessions (who are now only as avant-garde as Mozart, and both of whom were traditionalists from the beginning anyway): anger and violence, yes, but also tenderness, nostalgia, melancholy, mystery, awe, bliss, and so forth.  The String Trio, particularly, traverses a very broad swath of moods.

As with Mahler, some people interpret "many different emotions" as neurotic or as universally negative.  So be it.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on January 10, 2017, 06:42:37 AM
Oh, you'll have fun trying to make sense of our snypssss's responses.  Good luck!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Mirror Image on January 10, 2017, 09:11:44 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 10, 2017, 06:42:37 AM
Oh, you'll have fun trying to make sense of our snypssss's responses.  Good luck!

Unless one is an expert decoder, it can prove quite difficult indeed. :)
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions PIANO SONATA NO.2
Post by: Rons_talking on January 11, 2017, 04:52:12 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 09, 2017, 06:38:07 AM
Piano Sonata No.2 (1946)

"I'm comparing three different recordings, Salwen (Koch), Lawson (Virgin), and Hodgkinson (NewWorld). Frankly, there's not much to compare. Lawson takes the 'Lento' much slower than the other two, almost to compel listening, whereas it goes by before you know it with the other two, but otherwise, all three hit the same notes- I might give the nod to Lawson, who, though he gives a little more space to the notes, doesn't sound any less frenetic in the more violent moments of the outer movements. All have different sounding recordings, but all seem to absorb all the "crunchy" notes without any harshness, and this is a work that has a lot of spikes.

Musically, it's not something I'm all that fond of. It's a 12 minute Serial work in a 1940s guise. Three movements. Lots of activity, but- well, if I were to compare, I might prefer Boulez's Sonata No.1 just for the extra imagination. Sessions is a little "hammery", - if this is what musical anger sounds like, I don't know, maybe it's just the violence of the musical argument itself?

Session's Piano Music is the epitome of somewhat ugly Serialism. He just doesn't care, he's doing what he's doing, and that's that. I have to be in the mood for this much banging around. I much prefer Babbitt's more delicate complexity."



Oh! So painful to read! Piano Sonata 2 has always, from first hearing, been a favourite of mine. It is in no way serial, though Sessions does run through the aggregate from time to time. This is a complex work, in both harmonic and rhythmic development, but once you hear all that's going on, it's clearly  a highly emotional, bold 1940s statement. It makes frequent use of the 016 trichord (i.e. C, Db Gb) as well as harmonies built on seconds and fourths. The constant changing meter and overlapping statements give one a strong suspicion that ordered sets (serial) are going to a part of his future. But Sessions also makes use of Jazzy phrases that harken back to the 20s-30s, yet the work is internally consistent. It's to be performed w/out interruption and the harmonic and melodic flow links the movements so that, except for tempo change, it really is a one-movement-like work. The use of near-cluster sounding figures is not for effect; it really is a work that bases harmony and melody out of identical materials, and the tight voicing are not gratuitous.

For me, it a controlled frenzy consistent with the times, and as such is a remarkable work. I hope somebody out there likes it. It's really his last work that to me, has a lot of the classic mixed in with the contemporary. Pure energy!
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions PIANO SONATA NO.2
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: Rons_talking on January 11, 2017, 04:52:12 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 09, 2017, 06:38:07 AM
Piano Sonata No.2 (1946)

"I'm comparing three different recordings, Salwen (Koch), Lawson (Virgin), and Hodgkinson (NewWorld). Frankly, there's not much to compare. Lawson takes the 'Lento' much slower than the other two, almost to compel listening, whereas it goes by before you know it with the other two, but otherwise, all three hit the same notes- I might give the nod to Lawson, who, though he gives a little more space to the notes, doesn't sound any less frenetic in the more violent moments of the outer movements. All have different sounding recordings, but all seem to absorb all the "crunchy" notes without any harshness, and this is a work that has a lot of spikes.

Musically, it's not something I'm all that fond of. It's a 12 minute Serial work in a 1940s guise. Three movements. Lots of activity, but- well, if I were to compare, I might prefer Boulez's Sonata No.1 just for the extra imagination. Sessions is a little "hammery", - if this is what musical anger sounds like, I don't know, maybe it's just the violence of the musical argument itself?

Session's Piano Music is the epitome of somewhat ugly Serialism. He just doesn't care, he's doing what he's doing, and that's that. I have to be in the mood for this much banging around. I much prefer Babbitt's more delicate complexity."



Oh! So painful to read! Piano Sonata 2 has always, from first hearing, been a favourite of mine. It is in no way serial, though Sessions does run through the aggregate from time to time. This is a complex work, in both harmonic and rhythmic development, but once you hear all that's going on, it's clearly  a highly emotional, bold 1940s statement. It makes frequent use of the 016 trichord (i.e. C, Db Gb) as well as harmonies built on seconds and fourths. The constant changing meter and overlapping statements give one a strong suspicion that ordered sets (serial) are going to a part of his future. But Sessions also makes use of Jazzy phrases that harken back to the 20s-30s, yet the work is internally consistent. It's to be performed w/out interruption and the harmonic and melodic flow links the movements so that, except for tempo change, it really is a one-movement-like work. The use of near-cluster sounding figures is not for effect; it really is a work that bases harmony and melody out of identical materials, and the tight voicing are not gratuitous.

For me, it a controlled frenzy consistent with the times, and as such is a remarkable work. I hope somebody out there likes it. It's really his last work that to me, has a lot of the classic mixed in with the contemporary. Pure energy!


Yer killin me! ;D

OK, OK,..;. whew... tough crowd around here!!

OK, please name five piano musics that are more frenetic and raging...  (I need some contexts)...of the same ilk...

I mean, I don't really call it an "angry" piece or anything, it's just all that activity in the mid-range that's wearing me out in a way.


Oy... I've stepped in it here, eh? :laugh:




I'm just feeling a little suspicious that this is everyone's fav piece or something... I mean, really, it's not all THAT, is it???

:o :o :o
:o :o :o
:o :o :o


Anyhow, I know it's not cool to criticize RS,...           badminton anyone?? :-\
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions PIANO SONATA NO.2
Post by: Cato on January 12, 2017, 02:44:54 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 02:15:31 PM
Yer killin me! ;D

OK, OK,..;. whew... tough crowd around here!!

OK, please name five piano musics that are more frenetic and raging...  (I need some contexts)...of the same ilk...

I mean, I don't really call it an "angry" piece or anything, it's just all that activity in the mid-range that's wearing me out in a way.


Easy, dude!

Ferrucio Busoni: Toccata (Especially the last 3 minutes or so)

Leo OrnsteinWild Man's Dance and Suicide in a Diving Airplane

Sergei Protopopov: Piano Sonatas I and II

Sergei Rachmaninov: the Cadenza in the First Movement of the Third Piano Concerto

Alexander Scriabin: Piano Sonata IX

e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/v/yUuzW9DHsRo
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions PIANO SONATA NO.2
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 03:25:16 PM
Quote from: Cato on January 12, 2017, 02:44:54 PM
Easy, dude!

Ferrucio Busoni: Toccata (Especially the last 3 minutes or so)

Leo OrnsteinWild Man's Dance and Suicide in a Diving Airplane

Sergei Protopopov: Piano Sonatas I and II

Sergei Rachmaninov: the Cadenza in the First Movement of the Third Piano Concerto

Alexander Scriabin: Piano Sonata IX

e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/v/yUuzW9DHsRo

Busoni 'Toccata' IS Piano Music for me!! ;) Thanks for the List,... hey, gimme gimme moreMoreMORE!!


I mean, when it comes to banging, it seems I can handle Sciarrino better than Sessions...
lol, nevermind, ...

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 10, 2017, 06:42:37 AM
Oh, you'll have fun trying to make sense of our snypssss's responses.  Good luck!

what did I just write????? you're not the only one, lol!! ;)

Do you have anything intelligent to say about Piano Sonata No.2 to further the discussion? 0:)
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions My Sessions Top5
Post by: snyprrr on January 12, 2017, 03:32:29 PM
Sessions Top5

1 String Quartet No.2 (VoxBox ONLY!!)- the greatest thing you've ever heard
2 The Orchestral Works: Symphonies 2-9, Concerto for Orchestra, Piano Concerto
3 Late Chamber Works: piano, cello, string quartet
4 Piano Sonata No.1
5 String Quartet No.1 - String Quintet
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Mahlerian on June 23, 2020, 05:50:46 PM
There's a new recording of the Sessions Piano Concerto on Albany Records, with Barry David Salwen and the Polish Radio National Symphony:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91bUtVR3nmL._SX425_.jpg)

I don't know anything about Winham's music.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Karl Henning on June 23, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
You remind me to revisit the Sessions pf cto....
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Mahlerian on June 24, 2020, 06:28:33 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 23, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
You remind me to revisit the Sessions pf cto....

It's a good one, and there are several recordings on the market.  More choice than the Violin Concerto, for sure.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Maestro267 on June 24, 2020, 09:02:50 AM
Why's it so hard to find recordings of Sessions' works on Amazon? He has a generic name, or a name with words used in a lot of other albums. I don't want a Pink bloody Floyd album showing up!

It's the same when I search for recordings of percussion concertos. All I get is an endless list of recordings that pair Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra and Music for strings, percussion and celesta.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: kyjo on June 28, 2020, 09:36:35 AM
The only Sessions work I know is the early (1928) The Black Maskers Suite, which is characterized by edgy, rhythmic music a la Stravinsky but also has touching moments of poignant lyricism:

https://youtu.be/3BeLXCISzbw

Not being a particular fan of the non-tonal works of the 2nd Viennese School, I'm not sure if I would respond to Sessions' later style, though. (And no, I do not wish to get into arguments about what is tonal and what isn't. :))
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Mahlerian on June 28, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 28, 2020, 09:36:35 AM
The only Sessions work I know is the early (1928) The Black Maskers Suite, which is characterized by edgy, rhythmic music a la Stravinsky but also has touching moments of poignant lyricism:

https://youtu.be/3BeLXCISzbw

Not being a particular fan of the non-tonal works of the 2nd Viennese School, I'm not sure if I would respond to Sessions' later style, though.

You shouldn't find much to dislike in the First Symphony and the Duo for Violin and Piano, neither of which is as "difficult" as Sessions' later music.

https://www.youtube.com/v/qxH1zS5_H8A

https://www.youtube.com/v/vGcoVL8MyBo

Sessions' fundamental style never really changed. His rhythmic drive and long melodic lines are consistent from his earliest works to his last, but I guess that the early works sound more conventional.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: kyjo on June 29, 2020, 05:54:51 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on June 28, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
You shouldn't find much to dislike in the First Symphony and the Duo for Violin and Piano, neither of which is as "difficult" as Sessions' later music.

https://www.youtube.com/v/qxH1zS5_H8A

https://www.youtube.com/v/vGcoVL8MyBo

Sessions' fundamental style never really changed. His rhythmic drive and long melodic lines are consistent from his earliest works to his last, but I guess that the early works sound more conventional.

Cool, thanks; I'll check them out.
Title: Re: The Roger Sessions
Post by: Daverz on June 29, 2020, 06:02:12 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on June 28, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
You shouldn't find much to dislike in the First Symphony and the Duo for Violin and Piano, neither of which is as "difficult" as Sessions' later music.

The Violin Concerto, too, is in a neo-Classical style.