GMG Classical Music Forum

Though I should start off any discussion about Magnus Lindberg's music with a long explanation of his style and why I like him so much, I'm a bit pressed for time, so I'll limit myself to the news I wanted to share.

At the beginning of this month Naxos released a CD (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DELX94?ie=UTF8&tag=3636363-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B001DELX94) featuring Magnus Lindberg's works for piano solo and two pianos:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nI5x7S0TL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

What is interesting about this disc is that it features some juvenalia which I had never before seen mentioned in catalogues of the composer's work.

It's a pity Lindberg himself has not recorded these pieces (perhaps an Ondine disc will eventually appear?), though he is a capable pianist and premiered a few of these in concert. Ralph van Raat, however, is far from the sort of marginal musician Naxos often records, having trained under Oppens and Aimard and currently enjoying some acclaim in the Netherlands.

Thanks for starting a Lindberg thread.  I'm a big fan of his work, too, and coincidentally, just got this new CD a couple of days ago, Abandoned Time, with the International Contemporary Ensemble playing Lindberg's Linea d'ombra (1981).  The disc also has works by Dai Fujikura, Mario Davidovsky, Kaija Saariaho and Du Yun.

Other Lindberg favorites: Corrente (1992), Related Rocks (1997) and his Clarinet Concerto (2002).

That Naxos CD looks very interesting; I haven't heard any of his solo piano music.

--Bruce

I too am a (moderately big) fan of Lindberg. I love those in-yer-face big orchestral scores: Aura; Cantigas; Fresco and the like. The earlier, punkish stuff (like Kraft) is entertaining but too experimental to bring me back for repeated listening.

While I enjoy his Clarinet Concerto (which has received tons of praise), it feels like he is curbing his natural instincts there in the interests of populism. Nothing wrong with that, and if it helps him catch on, so much the better. But I prefer the more aggressive and daring earlier works overall.

Quote from: Spitvalve on October 03, 2008, 06:18:00 AM
While I enjoy his Clarinet Concerto (which has received tons of praise), it feels like he is curbing his natural instincts there in the interests of populism. Nothing wrong with that, and if it helps him catch on, so much the better. But I prefer the more aggressive and daring earlier works overall.

It might be just getting older instead of deliberately selling out. Anecdotes from the 1980s and 1990s portray him as a man of boundless energy, always moving about, never sleeping during festivals, and perhaps that expressed itself in his music. I love Anssi Karttunen's story that the cabin in which Lindberg wrote Cantigas and the Cello Concerto was strewn about without empty energy drink cans, vitamin bottles and cigar stubs. I've met Lindberg twice now, and he doesn't seem like the old legend.

My favourite work of his is Cantigas followed closely by Kinetics (though it's a pity there's no really good recording of the that) and the Concerto for Orchestra.

Quote from: Spitvalve on October 03, 2008, 06:18:00 AM
The earlier, punkish stuff (like Kraft) is entertaining but too experimental to bring me back for repeated listening.

I forgot that I have the recording of Kraft, coupled with Action-Situation-Signification on the disc below (the only scan I could find quickly).  I'm kind of with you on this one: Kraft is fun but I don't find myself returning to it often.

Quote from: CRCulver on October 03, 2008, 06:23:42 AM
I love Anssi Karttunen's story that the cabin in which Lindberg wrote Cantigas and the Cello Concerto was strewn about without empty energy drink cans, vitamin bottles and cigar stubs. I've met Lindberg twice now, and he doesn't seem like the old legend.

Cool, where did you meet him?  :D

--Bruce

Quote from: CRCulver on October 03, 2008, 06:23:42 AM
It might be just getting older instead of deliberately selling out.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply anything pejorative in my comment ("selling out" would imply that, yes?). I have no problem with a composer writing deliberately populist and audience-friendly works at times, even if they don't reflect his "true voice." (On the other hand, if he consistently repressed his true voice - I guess that would be selling out.)

But you may be right, it might just be natural mellowing - I believe he turns 50 this year.

Thanks for the thread.  :D

Lindberg and his firebrand group of classmates at the Sibelius Academy (the Ears Open group) all modified their styles as they got older, which is something I find really interesting, as there seem to be various different reasons in each case. This is an area I've done some research in lately. Some did it very abruptly, while for Lindberg it was more gradual. I feel it has something to do with his time outside Finland, in Paris, but am not quite sure. I don't think it has anything to do with selling out - I believe he doesn't feel his true voice is high modernist anymore, but that it has changed as he has grown older. In fact, his language has about caught up styles now with his compatriots of the same age.

It is quite evident in the language of his new Violin Concerto (who has heard it? :)), his Clarinet Concerto, and also his Concerto for Orchestra. And even his high-octane pieces like Cantigas, Fresco, etc show a move away from his earlier language of the 80s.

Lindberg is a really interesting composer, as is the background he developed out of, which was very much a reaction to and challenging of the Finnish music of before. He studied extensively in Paris, as Saariaho did, and this has been an influence on his music. There is a spectral element in his writing, in the way he uses color and harmony, which makes his works fascinating to listen to.

I find much of his music also challenging to listen to however, as it is often in love with elements other than melody, but I do find it very well-written in structure and orchestration.

I could also get into a long discussion here about what I like about his different periods, but I will just say that there is a lot of great stuff to explore in his output. Perhaps also things to stay away from too.

His early musique concrete stuff is still fun, such as Action-Situation-Signification, Kraft is now not much more than a curiosity, representing a stage (thankfully) long past. I like some of the Piano Concerto (which is on my disc of Kraft), such as the lovely 2nd mvmt, but it doesn't connect with me as a whole.

Kinetics-Marea-Joy, and Aura (in memoriam of Lutoslawski), I love those pieces, I think they are among some of the best things he has written. Cantigas and Fresco, all of the disc they are on - I have listened to those often as there is just so much going on - they are excellent works, but will also wear you out. ;)

Of his more recent stuff, it is consistently very enjoyable, but for me the Concerto for Orchestra (2003) deserves a special mention. I don't have a decent recording of it though.  :'(  Does one even exist?

This piece shows his unique way of writing space, and it equally features all sections, all instruments of the orchestra. It has a lot of chamber music type-writing, and a juxtaposition of brassy chorales and percussive rhythms with delicate impressionistic, almost Messiaenic filigreed figurations. Harmonically I would say it is very representative of his style as well. There are also some places about halfway through where he alludes strongly to his Clarinet Concerto in the woodwind solos.

An attempt to crystallize a work that kind of defies a short description...but it is a very engaging listen, and a work that desperately is in need of a good recording.

I really want to hear his new piece Seht Die Sonne.... 

Quote from: Senta on October 03, 2008, 10:07:44 AM
It is quite evident in the language of his new Violin Concerto (who has heard it? :)),

I heard the premiere in 2006, at the Mostly Mozart Festival, where it was the festival's first-ever commission by a living composer (albeit one surrounded by Mozart on all sides  ;D).  Excellent piece, with some echoes of Sibelius here and there, which is interesting since Lisa Batiashvili's recording of it is coupled with the Sibelius concerto.

And an excellent post, Senta!

--Bruce

Quote from: Senta on October 03, 2008, 10:07:44 AM
Thanks for the thread.  :D

Lindberg and his firebrand group of classmates at the Sibelius Academy (the Ears Open group) all modified their styles as they got older, which is something I find really interesting, as there seem to be various different reasons in each case. This is an area I've done some research in lately. Some did it very abruptly, while for Lindberg it was more gradual. I feel it has something to do with his time outside Finland, in Paris, but am not quite sure. I don't think it has anything to do with selling out - I believe he doesn't feel his true voice is high modernist anymore, but that it has changed as he has grown older. In fact, his language has about caught up styles now with his compatriots of the same age.

It is quite evident in the language of his new Violin Concerto (who has heard it? :)), his Clarinet Concerto, and also his Concerto for Orchestra. And even his high-octane pieces like Cantigas, Fresco, etc show a move away from his earlier language of the 80s.

Lindberg is a really interesting composer, as is the background he developed out of, which was very much a reaction to and challenging of the Finnish music of before. He studied extensively in Paris, as Saariaho did, and this has been an influence on his music. There is a spectral element in his writing, in the way he uses color and harmony, which makes his works fascinating to listen to.

I find much of his music also challenging to listen to however, as it is often in love with elements other than melody, but I do find it very well-written in structure and orchestration.

I could also get into a long discussion here about what I like about his different periods, but I will just say that there is a lot of great stuff to explore in his output. Perhaps also things to stay away from too.

His early musique concrete stuff is still fun, such as Action-Situation-Signification, Kraft is now not much more than a curiosity, representing a stage (thankfully) long past. I like some of the Piano Concerto (which is on my disc of Kraft), such as the lovely 2nd mvmt, but it doesn't connect with me as a whole.

Kinetics-Marea-Joy, and Aura (in memoriam of Lutoslawski), I love those pieces, I think they are among some of the best things he has written. Cantigas and Fresco, all of the disc they are on - I have listened to those often as there is just so much going on - they are excellent works, but will also wear you out. ;)

Of his more recent stuff, it is consistently very enjoyable, but for me the Concerto for Orchestra (2003) deserves a special mention. I don't have a decent recording of it though.  :'(  Does one even exist?

This piece shows his unique way of writing space, and it equally features all sections, all instruments of the orchestra. It has a lot of chamber music type-writing, and a juxtaposition of brassy chorales and percussive rhythms with delicate impressionistic, almost Messiaenic filigreed figurations. Harmonically I would say it is very representative of his style as well. There are also some places about halfway through where he alludes strongly to his Clarinet Concerto in the woodwind solos.

An attempt to crystallize a work that kind of defies a short description...but it is a very engaging listen, and a work that desperately is in need of a good recording.

I really want to hear his new piece Seht Die Sonne.... 

Excellent post - I have a couple of recordings of the Concert for Orchestra with the BBC SO. They are both good for radiocasts but of course not cd quality. Also have a recording of the Violin Concerto and Seht Die Sonne.

Kinetics. That's all I have to say.  0:)

Quote from: CRCulver on October 03, 2008, 04:49:25 AM
It's a pity Lindberg himself has not recorded these pieces (perhaps an Ondine disc will eventually appear?), though he is a capable pianist and premiered a few of these in concert. Ralph van Raat, however, is far from the sort of marginal musician Naxos often records, having trained under Oppens and Aimard and currently enjoying some acclaim in the Netherlands.

Perhaps once upon a time Naxos tended to use some marginal musicians; that's no longer the situation. 

Quote from: Bulldog on October 03, 2008, 12:29:42 PM
Perhaps once upon a time Naxos tended to use some marginal musicians; that's no longer the situation. 

Also I don't know what "marginal" is suppposed to mean here. There are plenty of musicians who are excellent despite being little-known.

Lindberg's Concerto for Orchestra is now available. Here's a glowing review from Everyone's Favorite Critic:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11999

Anyone heard this disc yet?

Quote from: Spitvalve on November 28, 2008, 11:46:04 PM
Lindberg's Concerto for Orchestra is now available. Here's a glowing review from Everyone's Favorite Critic:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11999

Anyone heard this disc yet?

I've heard the disc, although I've already known the Concerto for Orchestra for years from a radio recording of its premiere under the BBC SO, as well as a performance of it in Helsinki last spring. I think it's Lindberg's masterpiece, constantly in motion and abounding in ideas, but with a clearer form than his work of the '90s. Nothing he has done sense has really pleased me that much. He seems too mellowed now, when he used to be the caffeinated wonder composer.

Thanks CR - I guess this one goes on the wish list  :)

"Caffeinated wonder composer" - very nice description.

Quote from: Spitvalve on November 29, 2008, 10:27:52 AM


"Caffeinated wonder composer" - very nice description.

Yes, and I wish he'd go back to that. I've tried that disc with Aura, the Cello Concerto, Parade, and Fresco several times, and twice I've fallen asleep to it.  :P

In contrast, Kinetics is just a masterpiece of new music.

I must be still really really young at heart. I do listen to KRAFT often!

Quote from: springrite on November 30, 2008, 07:41:05 PM
I must be still really really young at heart. I do listen to KRAFT often!

It goes good with a certain brand of macaroni and cheese.  8)

No one has mentioned my favorite Clarinet Quintet, which I have on the Arditti disc (the other version, I hear, is NOT to be preferred).

I went through the Lindberg phase, snapping up all those ondine cds, and...uh...yea, I don't have them anymore. I did enjoy his "never wrote a slow mvmt." style, but, apparently, they wasn't anything beyond the kinetic energy for me. Still, the Clarinet Quintet is perfectly within my sweet spot.

By Lindberg I've persevered with Arena, Away, Fresco, Grand duo, Kinetics, Marea & ...de Tartuffe, je crois... (piano quintet) & Six Piano jubilees (piano).

He's another socially well-placed musical nobody with very very little to say, one more example of the massive decline of the art of music. In any earlier time since the medieval such a small talent would hardly have even been retained on paper. God help us, and the likes of the misguided posters here.

Quote from: Sean on January 09, 2010, 09:50:30 AM
He's another socially well-placed musical nobody...

Lindberg first came to the attention of the media when he and his chums were outsiders without any social connections to speak of. The sheer visceral power of his music is what catapulted him to where he is now. Go back in the Finnish press and read reviews of some of those early 1980s concerts and how shocked the critics were that must this powerful and mature was coming from a student. Stenius' biography Chaconne: En bok om Magnus Lindberg och den nya musiken (Helsinki: Söderströms, 2006) has a good amount of detail about how Lindberg got to where he is, and it wasn't because he just knew the right people all along.

I take a different view to those critics.

Quote from: Sean on January 09, 2010, 02:01:28 PM
I take a different view to those critics.

Disagreeing with critics comes down to arbitrary personal taste, that's fine. However, your assertion that Lindberg found success just because of his social connections is demonstrably false. Be a man and retract your claim.

Quote from: CRCulver on January 09, 2010, 02:45:11 PM
Disagreeing with critics comes down to arbitrary personal taste, that's fine. However, your assertion that Lindberg found success just because of his social connections is demonstrably false. Be a man and retract your claim.

Indeed I don't know about his social connections. However find it impossible to understand how basically uncommunicative music can be said to be justified on the basis of communicating with an audience, and thus there must be other reasons...

Sean, you keep universalising your own experience and mistakingly thinking that your experience is the experience of the music and that of everyone else. Personally, I adore the cello concerto - I think it's one of the most inventive and compelling works in the genre since the Lutoslawski and Dutilleux concertos. It moves me. I think it's beautiful. I am an audience. I find it communicative. I cannot be wrong about this because it is a subjective judgement.

It may not speak to you, but it does speak to other people, and it's such a dull and tired pseudo-intellectual trick to fit ones personal likes and dislikes into some grand theory of music, especially one that is a more general theory about the decay of culture etc. etc. People were saying the same thing when Mozart was alive, when Mendelssohn was alive, when Wagner wrote his operas, when Brahms' music reached unsympathetic ears, early Stravinsky, Bartok, Berg etc. etc. etc...

In any case, when your judgement about contemporary music always seems to be negative, that the composer doesn't understand art, is working with whatever scraps of tonality he/she can salvage etc. etc. - it seems disingenuous! I can't believe that you really believe all this stuff or you wouldn't devour so much new music. If you thought it was that bad, there's no reason that you'd put yourself though the pain of listening. Or do you enjoy it despite its degeneracy?

Hi Guido, hope you're alright there, the point about art is that it isn't subjective, just experienced by subjects individually- if it was subjective there'd be no aesthetic category, the interesting thing. I don't know the Cello concerto, so maybe you're right about it.

I'm surprised if you don't even get the feeling that aesthetic experiences are universalizable though- you're happy to relegate deeply meaningful art to your personal response and respect the next fool who experiences nothing? Don't worry though- I don't like this debate and it's very well worn ground.

Regarding my critiques of new music, I'm usually just putting things into perspective- contemporary works are often limited and unwittingly conceited but still worth something, even if it's in little more than making sense of the degeneracy: the thing is that the immense artistic achievements of the tonal repertory must be kept absolutely in focus- and anyone coming to new music making judgements about it but who's innocent of really great music must remain benighted.

I am good. Hope you're well. How's the PhD?

Quote from: Sean on January 11, 2010, 02:22:33 AM
Hi Guido, hope you're alright there, the point about art is that it isn't subjective, just experienced by subjects individually- if it was subjective there'd be no aesthetic category, the interesting thing. I don't know the Cello concerto, so maybe you're right about it.

I do think that some art is better than other art of course - I don't think someone when someone feels that Carson Cooman's Psalm 66 is better than The Mass in B minor, that that really reflects a truth about the music - so I don't think quality is a subjective thing, but it is based on subjective experience. For this reason I cannot be wrong when I say that the cello concerto moves me, is expressive and satisfying and I find it beautiful and I keep returning to it -  even if you think its trash and inexpressive.

So I think that the aesthetic experience is universal in some senses - lots of people like Bach because it's great music and has the power to produce a very great subjective response in a huge amount of people. (i.e. it's emphatically not the other way round, which some sceptics on this forum claim - that Bach is just considered one of the greats because he is loved by so many people - it's not a democratic thing!). However, I don't think my own aesthetic experience is universalizable to everyone else - I have my own tastes and its all refracted through my ears and brain... so when I listen to the B minor mass it seems that I am taking the universal experience it offers and refracting it through my own experience and understanding, as all the other listeners are. What I don't do is take my subjective experience as the subjective experience of the work and then claim that other people are wrong when they like things that I don't.

Hope this makes sense. I agree this is a tired subject, but I just think you are making a slight mistake with some of your pronouncements, even if I agree that art does have some objective grounding. Obviously also, I'm an optimist about life and art so I can't take your doom laden pronouncements very seriously!

Hi, as I say I don't know the concerto and I'd expect any two receptive people to agree on aesthetic judgements- as does Kant for instance. We can't point to our experience of art as we can to a colour say, because the cognitive faculties are involved in the formation of aesthetic experience- but this subjectivity or intersubjectivity is a form, the highest form, of objectivity.

QuoteWhat I don't do is take my subjective experience as the subjective experience of the work and then claim that other people are wrong when they like things that I don't.

This is incorrect- you can take it as the experience.

I have to travel to Edinburgh tomorrow, where I don't really want to be to do some more study, so until then...

Quote from: Sean on January 11, 2010, 05:25:14 AM
This is incorrect- you can take it as the experience.

I don't agree. We each filter our emotional and aesthetic response through our own understanding which is a function and result of our psychology, upbringing, tastes, age, previous experiences, intelligence, musicality, technical knowlege etc. etc. Although we are similar in these things (most of us on this forum are western for instance, or strongly influenced by Western thought) we are not identical (chemically in our brains will be different) and therefore there is no reason that we should experience things in exactly the same way, nor can our experience be normative (or even prespcriptive as you're suggesting your own experience is).

What about when you change your mind about music - sometimes music grows on you and sometimes it gets less significant with each hearing... Also, it might change with age - you hear certain truths in the music that speak to your current person in a way that you couldn't experience before various life experiences... What I'm saying is that the subjective experience is not fixed and will partially depend on what the listener is receptive to at that moment.

Quote from: CRCulver on January 09, 2010, 12:28:44 PM
Lindberg first came to the attention of the media when he and his chums were outsiders without any social connections to speak of. The sheer visceral power of his music is what catapulted him to where he is now. Go back in the Finnish press and read reviews of some of those early 1980s concerts and how shocked the critics were that must this powerful and mature was coming from a student. Stenius' biography Chaconne: En bok om Magnus Lindberg och den nya musiken (Helsinki: Söderströms, 2006) has a good amount of detail about how Lindberg got to where he is, and it wasn't because he just knew the right people all along.

Good post, thank you.  Lindberg (currently composer-in-residence at the NY Phil) may not appeal to all tastes--even I don't like everything he's done--but he's hardly writing "basically uncommunicative music." 

Quote from: Guido on January 11, 2010, 06:11:24 AM
I don't agree. We each filter our emotional and aesthetic response through our own understanding which is a function and result of our psychology, upbringing, tastes, age, previous experiences, intelligence, musicality, technical knowlege etc. etc. Although we are similar in these things (most of us on this forum are western for instance, or strongly influenced by Western thought) we are not identical (chemically in our brains will be different) and therefore there is no reason that we should experience things in exactly the same way, nor can our experience be normative (or even prespcriptive as you're suggesting your own experience is).

What about when you change your mind about music - sometimes music grows on you and sometimes it gets less significant with each hearing... Also, it might change with age - you hear certain truths in the music that speak to your current person in a way that you couldn't experience before various life experiences... What I'm saying is that the subjective experience is not fixed and will partially depend on what the listener is receptive to at that moment.

Well put.

--Bruce

You're totally wrong Guido and if you read you posts, like others in your position, you'll find they're very contradictory: what you're basically trying to do is relativize truth, which is something fixed and absolute, and given access to by art.

Quote from: Sean on January 11, 2010, 06:37:07 AM
...what you're basically trying to do is relativize truth, which is something fixed and absolute, and given access to by art.

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z245/tapiola/blank_facepalm_224.gif)

Quote from: Sean on January 11, 2010, 06:37:07 AM
You're totally wrong Guido and if you read you posts, like others in your position, you'll find they're very contradictory: what you're basically trying to do is relativize truth, which is something fixed and absolute, and given access to by art.

Erm...no.  I don't see anyone here trying to "relativize truth" (if that were even possible).  Truth is, well, truth.  But if you see yourself as the sole standard-bearer, or the only one able to see what others cannot (in your eyes), I can only offer, "Good luck with that."

--Bruce

Quote from: Sean on January 11, 2010, 06:37:07 AM
You're totally wrong Guido and if you read you posts, like others in your position, you'll find they're very contradictory: what you're basically trying to do is relativize truth, which is something fixed and absolute, and given access to by art.

Could the mods please move this to a separate discussion in the general forum? There's no reason people looking for discussion specifically about Magnus Lindberg should have to wade through so many posts on general aesthetics.

Quote from: Sean on January 11, 2010, 06:37:07 AM
You're totally wrong Guido and if you read you posts, like others in your position, you'll find they're very contradictory: what you're basically trying to do is relativize truth, which is something fixed and absolute, and given access to by art.

I'm not sayng that - read my posts again.

Quote from: Corey on January 11, 2010, 06:48:35 AM
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z245/tapiola/blank_facepalm_224.gif)

You're all welcome to your insecure views.

Quote from: Guido on January 11, 2010, 10:44:08 AM
I'm not sayng that - read my posts again.

Guido, as with others before you I don't understand how you can accommodate relativism or subjectivism and objectivity, apart from endless shuffing around... Yours, S

Ondine has announced (http://www.ondine.net/img/en.button.readmore.gif) that it will issue a recording in February or March of Lindberg's GRAFITTI for orchestra and choir, settings of inscriptions found at Pompeii that depict many different strands of Roman everyday society. I attended the world premiere of this piece in Helsinki last spring and was very impressed by it. It maintains the strengths of Lindberg's idiom while at the same time throwing in a lot of scenes which will surprise longtime fans.

In any event, a a classical piece where the choir signs "You give good head" (Myrtis bene fellas) is always a novelty. I wonder how much criticism this will invoke from the conservatives, like when David Hurwitz was really pissed off that Thomas Ades included a musical description of fellatio in his opera Powder Her Face.

And I thought Lindberg was cool... what happened?  :-\

Quote from: CRCulver on January 13, 2010, 05:33:40 PMIn any event, a a classical piece where the choir signs "You give good head" (Myrtis bene fellas) is always a novelty. I wonder how much criticism this will invoke from the conservatives, like when David Hurwitz was really pissed off that Thomas Ades included a musical description of fellatio in his opera Powder Her Face.

Good fellas?

Quote from: CRCulver on January 13, 2010, 05:33:40 PM
Ondine has announced (http://www.ondine.net/img/en.button.readmore.gif) that it will issue a recording in February or March of Lindberg's GRAFITTI for orchestra and choir, settings of inscriptions found at Pompeii that depict many different strands of Roman everyday society. I attended the world premiere of this piece in Helsinki last spring and was very impressed by it. It maintains the strengths of Lindberg's idiom while at the same time throwing in a lot of scenes which will surprise longtime fans.

In any event, a a classical piece where the choir signs "You give good head" (Myrtis bene fellas) is always a novelty. I wonder how much criticism this will invoke from the conservatives, like when David Hurwitz was really pissed off that Thomas Ades included a musical description of fellatio in his opera Powder Her Face.

It turns out that very same Hurwitz is in ecstasy over the piece, or at least the recording thereof:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12803

Has anyone heard Magnus Lindberg's latest piece "Al Largo"? I have a recording, but have not yet gotten around to it. I am sure hoping to hear something with a bit more substance than EXPO (Al Largo is much longer anyways) and with a bit more spice to it than GRAFFITI, which I thought was a bit too static and soft, even for Lindberg's latest music. Even his Clarinet Concerto was more abrasive than GRAFFITI. Not that it was a terrible piece (it was actually quite engaging), but I really miss the style he employed in the early to mid 90s.

Yes, I was at the third performance of Al largo, and liked it very much.  You can still listen to it for a few more hours, until noon on Monday, here:

http://nyphil.org/broadcast/broadcast_main.cfm

I liked it much better than EXPO, although I was very glad that the orchestra did a world premiere on opening night.  But give the new one a listen, and see what you think.

--Bruce

Leaving shortly to go hear Alan Gilbert and the New York Philharmonic play Lindberg's Kraft (1983-85), which I'm hoping is going to be a really fun experience.  For weeks, the orchestra has been publicizing Gilbert and the percussionists, and their visit to a Staten Island junkyard, where they were looking for pieces of scrap metal.  ;D

--Bruce

Quote from: bhodges on October 08, 2010, 01:41:55 PM
Leaving shortly to go hear Alan Gilbert and the New York Philharmonic play Lindberg's Kraft (1983-85), which I'm hoping is going to be a really fun experience.  For weeks, the orchestra has been publicizing Gilbert and the percussionists, and their visit to a Staten Island junkyard, where they were looking for pieces of scrap metal.  ;D

--Bruce

What did you think of it, Bruce? I just got back from tonight's performance, and it was certainly a thrilling (and very loud) spectacle. Even so, what remains most in this memory is the exquisite treatment of Debussy's Faune.

I can't wait to hear Gilbert's rendition of Kraft when they put it online in November. I doubt it will be able to beat either of Salonen's recording of the work, though. Also, the Toimii ensemble's virtuosity in those recordings will be hard to top also.

Quote from: Sforzando on October 12, 2010, 08:35:33 PM
What did you think of it, Bruce? I just got back from tonight's performance, and it was certainly a thrilling (and very loud) spectacle. Even so, what remains most in this memory is the exquisite treatment of Debussy's Faune.

Sorry I missed this post!  I thoroughly enjoyed it, and was just so proud of Gilbert and the musicians for even tackling the piece to begin with.  I liked it very much, but have only heard the CD below (which was one of the first CDs I ever bought!), and I haven't listened to it in a very long time.  My hunch is that the piece really has to be heard live (unless a surround-sound recording is in the works), and the NY Philharmonic did a splendid job as far as I could tell.  Certainly from a logistical standpoint it was a big achievement on those terms alone.

I also thought the Debussy performance was something special--caught me a little off guard, since I was really at the concert for Lindberg's piece.  And the Sibelius Violin Concerto also surprised me, since I'm not a big fan of it, but it seemed to blossom in Joshua Bell's hands. 

But back to Kraft: I'm just so happy that they did it, that they did it so well, and that the audience reaction at the end was so incredibly positive.  The night I went, most were standing and cheering, and brought the musicians back 4 or 5 times.

--Bruce

On the subject of Kraft, I would highly recommend this recording, which is better than the old recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515edmjRBrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

The sound is just so much more explosive and detailed than the older recording, which sounds a bit dull to my ears. The piano concerto is also a top notch piece that isn't worth missing. Lindberg is a world class pianist that I would love to hear play other contemporary music.

For anyone that is interested, you can now hear Alan Gilbert's performance of Kraft from October, which was met with great reviews. I haven't heard it yet, but I hope it can compete with Salonen's aforementioned performance(s). Hear it on www.nyphil.org while you can.

Last weekend Alan Gilbert led the NY Philharmonic in another Lindberg world premiere, Souvenir (in memoriam Gérard Grisey), which I mostly liked very much.  (If it suffered in comparison with the amazing Grisey Quatre chants that followed, it's not Lindberg's fault.)  Written for large chamber ensemble, Souvenir is relatively slow-moving but with flashes of activity, and closes on a beautiful, radiant chord.

I think of the three Lindberg premieres here in the last year or so, Al largo might be the one to return to, but of course only time and further hearings will tell.

--Bruce

Quote from: bhodges on November 24, 2010, 08:07:53 AM
Souvenir is relatively slow-moving but with flashes of activity, and closes on a beautiful, radiant chord.

In other words - it's like pretty much every Lindberg piece I've heard since the mid-90s. He does seem to be repeating himself a bit too much for my taste.

Quote from: Velimir on November 24, 2010, 08:51:48 AM
In other words - it's like pretty much every Lindberg piece I've heard since the mid-90s. He does seem to be repeating himself a bit too much for my taste.

That was exactly the opinion of a friend I spoke to afterward.  She liked it, but thought it didn't have that last bit of inspiration that would make it really memorable.

--Bruce

Just got this all-orchestral 4-CD box yesterday, though haven't played it yet.

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Will delve into it as soon as I find some mental bandwidth.

I have all of those pieces in that box set, just in their original releases. I am a bit shocked that they left off some of the instrumental concertos. I would rank the Piano Concerto as one of Lindberg's best works. It was written before he became the predictable composer he seems to be today, not that I have a problem with that! I've heard most of his new works, and while they are predictable, I think his brand of music is never sickening to listen to, simply because he is such a master of orchestral color. I hope to hear Souvenir soon. I just don't want to have to shell out $50 for a NYPhil iTunes pass just to hear that one piece.

Quote from: lescamil on May 07, 2011, 10:25:29 PM
I have all of those pieces in that box set, just in their original releases. I am a bit shocked that they left off some of the instrumental concertos. I would rank the Piano Concerto as one of Lindberg's best works. It was written before he became the predictable composer he seems to be today, not that I have a problem with that! I've heard most of his new works, and while they are predictable, I think his brand of music is never sickening to listen to, simply because he is such a master of orchestral color. I hope to hear Souvenir soon. I just don't want to have to shell out $50 for a NYPhil iTunes pass just to hear that one piece.

Leaving out the concertos was a definite deal-breaker for me. I think it was bad judgement on Ondine's part to leave them out imho.

I have a good bit of Lindberg on the way...

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Doesn't seem like Lindberg gets a lot of love around here and I think that's a shame because he's a highly inventive composer with some intriguing ideas about music. It seems that so many people are stuck in the past and simply can't bring themselves to listening to newer music. Is our fellow GMG member Karl Henning being ignored because he's a contemporary composer? I think this kind of mindset is what is killing classical music. There are too many snobs in the audiences.

Somebody asked me one time why don't I go see the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra? The reason I don't is because I can listen to the same old workhorses at home. I want to hear music I can't hear anywhere else and this speaks volumes about the state the ASO is in right now. They play music that sells, but don't offer enough "meat" to people who are hungary for something fresh.

I have a cd of Lindberg and I enjoy it.  I don't see why you're bringing snobbery into the picture, he is a minor composer.  Just the fact that his music is performed, recorded, listened to and discussed on an internet forum says that he has not been ignored.  As for Karl, well there are literally thousands of active composers around the world, it's hard to become famous or even well received when you can't even grab attention.

As for the state of the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, since many orchestras are in financial straits I'm not surprised they chose war horses to play.

I'm only mentioning these things because you're making a habit of drawing a picture of snobs dismissing your composer for every composer that you like.  Maybe that is not actually the case, and even if it is, maybe you can enjoy the music without needing an imaginary audience sneering at it to make you feel validated. :P

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 03, 2011, 07:51:53 AM
Doesn't seem like Lindberg gets a lot of love around here and I think that's a shame because he's a highly inventive composer with some intriguing ideas about music. It seems that so many people are stuck in the past and simply can't bring themselves to listening to newer music. Is our fellow GMG member Karl Henning being ignored because he's a contemporary composer? I think this kind of mindset is what is killing classical music. There are too many snobs in the audiences.

Somebody asked me one time why don't I go see the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra? The reason I don't is because I can listen to the same old workhorses at home. I want to hear music I can't hear anywhere else and this speaks volumes about the state the ASO is in right now. They play music that sells, but don't offer enough "meat" to people who are hungary for something fresh.

If I was a famous Composer, I'd want the rugged, good looking Nordic features like Lindberg. Haha, he looks so... trustworthy? I don't know, I've always been impressed with his looks, haha.

I got into the Lindberg fray early in the Ondine blitz,... but, like so many Ondine/Chandos/BIS Composers, I got too much and cooled to a lukewarm. I do still stand by the, IMO, absolutely wonderful Clarinet Quintet (get ONLY the Arditti version!): that is a Masterpiece, I think.

I hope MI doesn't overdose and get sick. :-* :'(

Quote from: DavidW on June 03, 2011, 08:11:23 AMI don't see why you're bringing snobbery into the picture, he is a minor composer.

And this is a minor post.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 03, 2011, 07:51:53 AM
Somebody asked me one time why don't I go see the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra? The reason I don't is because I can listen to the same old workhorses at home. I want to hear music I can't hear anywhere else and this speaks volumes about the state the ASO is in right now. They play music that sells, but don't offer enough "meat" to people who are hungary for something fresh.

A quick look at the ASO 2011-2012 season online looks pretty more than decent to me, e.g., Spano is conducting a new Salonen piece, on a concert that doesn't look very commercial at all:

Thu, October 27, 2011
Sat, October 29, 2011

Esa-Pekka Salonen: New Work
Scriabin: Poem of Ecstasy
Rachmaninov: The Bells

Robert Spano, Conductor
Tatiana Monogarova, Soprano
Sergey Romanovsky, Tenor
Denis Sedov, Bass
Atlanta Symphony Orchestra Chorus
Atlanta Symphony Orchestra

Just sayin'...

--Bruce

Quote from: DavidW on June 03, 2011, 08:11:23 AMI'm only mentioning these things because you're making a habit of drawing a picture of snobs dismissing your composer for every composer that you like.  Maybe that is not actually the case, and even if it is, maybe you can enjoy the music without needing an imaginary audience sneering at it to make you feel validated. :P

I don't make a habit of anything but sharing my opinion and listening to the music. I'm speaking about a general problem with classical audiences and not just about Lindberg.

Yes, Lindberg gets recordings, but so does Xenakis and Boulez and Koechlin. WTF?!?!? ???

Also just noticed (to stay on topic) they're doing Lindberg's Arena next May.

--Bruce

Well I wish I was in driving distance of that orchestra! :)

Getting back on topic, what are everybody's impressions of his Violin Concerto?

The Violin Concerto to me is similar to the Clarinet Concerto in that it doesn't demand a lot from its audience. I am not hugely familiar with it, but it seems to have that same sort of quasi-folk music influence in it and there is almost a hint of Mozartean influence, especially in the orchestra, which is of Classical proportions, and is a far cry from his other concertos in forces (except for the Piano Concerto, which has a small orchestra also). It didn't leave a huge impression on me like the other concertos did, and perhaps I need to listen to it a bit more.

Quote from: lescamil on June 03, 2011, 07:04:13 PM
The Violin Concerto to me is similar to the Clarinet Concerto in that it doesn't demand a lot from its audience. I am not hugely familiar with it, but it seems to have that same sort of quasi-folk music influence in it and there is almost a hint of Mozartean influence, especially in the orchestra, which is of Classical proportions, and is a far cry from his other concertos in forces (except for the Piano Concerto, which has a small orchestra also). It didn't leave a huge impression on me like the other concertos did, and perhaps I need to listen to it a bit more.

It will be interesting to the hear his VC. I heard an excerpt from it on YouTube and loved the sound of it.

The NYP is premiering Lindberg's Piano Concerto No.2 (written for Yefim Bronfman) in San Francisco next May--if it's not sold out, I'll be there!

Quote from: Toccata&Fugue on June 03, 2011, 10:34:06 PM
The NYP is premiering Lindberg's Piano Concerto No.2 (written for Yefim Bronfman) in San Francisco next May--if it's not sold out, I'll be there!

That should be interesting. I'm assuming Alan Gilbert will be conducting correct?

Did anyone catch the exchange between Alec Baldwin and Alan Gilbert in regards to Tchaikovsky and Lindberg?

http://www.youtube.com/v/4-m6SbZQllc

I totally lost where both people were going once Lindberg was brought up. I think it might have been a bit over Baldwin's head after a certain point, so a bunch of rambling was inevitable.

Quote from: lescamil on June 04, 2011, 01:16:23 PM
I totally lost where both people were going once Lindberg was brought up. I think it might have been a bit over Baldwin's head after a certain point, so a bunch of rambling was inevitable.

Yeah, it didn't make a whole lot of sense. Both men are obviously intelligent, but the title of this YouTube video made it sound as if there was some kind of rigorous debate between the two of them.

What I got from Baldwin's point of view is that Lindberg and many modern composers today are not for a typical audience, I think, whereas Gilbert disagreed. I think you can safely say that Lindberg's works from the last 10 years would fall into the category of "pieces for a wider audience", but not his other works.

Quote from: lescamil on June 04, 2011, 06:55:37 PMWhat I got from Baldwin's point of view is that Lindberg and many modern composers today are not for a typical audience, I think, whereas Gilbert disagreed. I think you can safely say that Lindberg's works from the last 10 years would fall into the category of "pieces for a wider audience", but not his other works.

Yes, but I think the comparisons made between Tchaikovsky and Lindberg were kind of far-fetched and not very well-thought through, but as Alec said that's the beauty of a live interview.

I've really been enjoying the Lindberg recordings I own and I think I have heard them all now. So far these are my favorites:

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All of the works on these two recordings really have connected with me, especially Graffiti, which I think is absolutely astonishing. I'm having a harder time with some of his early 80s/90s works, though parts of his Piano Concerto and Kraft were very interesting. I did not connect with the recording with Kinetics, Marea, and Joy. Of the mid-90s and 00s, I really loved his concertos for violin, cello, and clarinet. Pretty much all the works for the Salonen/Philharmonia disc were good.

BUMP!

bump

Quote from: snyprrr on July 18, 2011, 10:29:14 AM
bump

Do you have any favorite Lindberg compositions, snyprrr?

Anyone know a way I can get a recording of Souvenir without shelling out ~$50 on iTunes for a New York Phil pass? I really want to hear this work, especially after perusing the score. It looks like a condensed version of the Concerto for Orchestra.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 18, 2011, 11:06:16 AM
Do you have any favorite Lindberg compositions, snyprrr?

I think the Clarinet Quintet is a Masterpiece! The one with the Arditti is the The One.

The atmosphere in this piece reminds me of Tarkovsky, though it is by no means slow moving. I like the 'cool', 'icy' treatment,... I don't know, I had a few of those Ondine discs when they came out, and, Lindberg did have a 'Poster Child' sound (meaning very 'up-to-date- and-in-the-know-wink-wink) sound at the time which, I liked, but not enough to keep the cds (I'm being unfair,... I think I just needed the money!,... I would readily try some again). The CQ, however, I find very singular (I suppose since, at the time, it was to be his 'String Quartet' piece).

Yea, sign me up for the Clarinet Quintet, by the Arditti.

Typical snyprrr, going first for the piece with the string quartet in it. Don't forget about Kari Kriikku! He is perhaps one of the best clarinetists alive. He is perhaps one of the few people out there (other than possibly Martin Fröst) who could play some of these crazy clarinet concertos being written today. Lindberg's is far from crazy, but it has some real hair-raising passages. I've talked bad about it in the past, saying that he was selling out to his audience in it, but its a lovely work that departs from his style a bit, even nowadays when he has noticeably let down the reins a bit. The Clarinet Quintet is lovely, too, but in a much different way. I'd like to hear him write for JUST a string quartet.

Quote from: lescamil on July 20, 2011, 07:29:29 PM
Typical snyprrr, going first for the piece with the string quartet in it. Don't forget about Kari Kriikku! He is perhaps one of the best clarinetists alive. He is perhaps one of the few people out there (other than possibly Martin Fröst) who could play some of these crazy clarinet concertos being written today. Lindberg's is far from crazy, but it has some real hair-raising passages. I've talked bad about it in the past, saying that he was selling out to his audience in it, but its a lovely work that departs from his style a bit, even nowadays when he has noticeably let down the reins a bit. The Clarinet Quintet is lovely, too, but in a much different way. I'd like to hear him write for JUST a string quartet.

I think there's many composers who "sellout" at some point. Look at Stravinsky, for example, he could have expanded so much on The Rite of Spring, but he didn't, he went the Neoclassical route, which is fine by me, the man was a master composer regardless of what direction he went in. I think the same applies to Lindberg. His early works are some spitfire, hell-raising stuff with some avant-garde cross-currents weaving in and out of the sonic tapestries. I'm not too impressed with his earlier output. I like the direction his music is going in now --- more tonal. He still sounds unmistakably like himself as his harmonic language is a particular one as his friend and colleague Salonen pointed out in an interview.

I think it was a famous jazz guitarist, Jim Hall, who said "Where can I go to sell out?" In my opinion, if I like the direction a composer is going in, I'm going to stick with them.

Well, I don't have much of a problem anymore with Lindberg's "selling out" as of late. He is still a very good composer who can write excellent music. I thought his latest work Al Largo was a nice, engaging piece. Lindberg really is, to me, one of the composers today I have the least amount of problems with. I even like his earlier works like KRAFT, UR, and the Kinetics-Marea-Joy trilogy. The Piano Concerto continues to be my favorite work of his (hell, I'd maybe even consider playing it someday). I don't think negatively of his more recent works anymore, like I used to about the Clarinet Concerto and Seht die Sonne (when I heard the premiere).

Quote from: lescamil on July 20, 2011, 10:16:09 PM
Well, I don't have much of a problem anymore with Lindberg's "selling out" as of late. He is still a very good composer who can write excellent music. I thought his latest work Al Largo was a nice, engaging piece. Lindberg really is, to me, one of the composers today I have the least amount of problems with. I even like his earlier works like KRAFT, UR, and the Kinetics-Marea-Joy trilogy. The Piano Concerto continues to be my favorite work of his (hell, I'd maybe even consider playing it someday). I don't think negatively of his more recent works anymore, like I used to about the Clarinet Concerto and Seht die Sonne (when I heard the premiere).

I just think that Lindberg is mellowing out and, this, for me, is a good thing as I've been doing the same.

Quote from: lescamil on July 20, 2011, 07:29:29 PM
Typical snyprrr, going first for the piece with the string quartet in it. Don't forget about Kari Kriikku! He is perhaps one of the best clarinetists alive. He is perhaps one of the few people out there (other than possibly Martin Fröst) who could play some of these crazy clarinet concertos being written today. Lindberg's is far from crazy, but it has some real hair-raising passages. I've talked bad about it in the past, saying that he was selling out to his audience in it, but its a lovely work that departs from his style a bit, even nowadays when he has noticeably let down the reins a bit. The Clarinet Quintet is lovely, too, but in a much different way. I'd like to hear him write for JUST a string quartet.

No, not just a 'String Quartet Thing',... not only is this my fav ML piece, it's also my fav CQ!! The one 'hair raising' part I like the best is when the clarinet makes that looong note,... yes, this is definitely a 'Clarinet Quintet'. If you've heard the Kimmo Hakola/Ondine disc with KK, then you know that not everyone is writing Masterpieces for CQ!! Hakola goes on for just waaay too long considering the general lack of materials used (IMO!!).

No, I just think ML wrote this piece a) at the right time, and, b) for the right people,... this is the height of what I like about ML's earlier phase. He claimed that he's never written an Adagio, and this CQ really zips along, taking us on a journey (albeit, in a fairly claustrophobic environment of 'cool passion').

i checked out a lot of lindberg's CDs from local libraries and etc a while back on a recommendation from someone that i explore his music, (or more accurately a critique of my, at the time, highly reactionary compositions: "stop listening to shostakovich and john williams" [two composers i've never actually liked] "and check out some really worthwhile composers, like magnus lindberg")

i listened to quite a lot and found most of it... on the inaccessible side. idk. the pieces seemed to be filled with lots and lots of relatively empty pattern-making, thick and dull-sounding orchestration and musical ideas that all sound basically the same. they are well crafted—the more recent works in particular—but it's difficult to tell what to pay attention to, & the 'sameness' makes a lot of the music rather boring after awhile; a piece like the widely-praised Clarinet Concerto i found a pretty laboured listen with only an appreciation of great technical skill to mitigate. it follows the letter, but not the spirit, of Romanticism.

i will put in a good word for this disc though - despite the higher level of dissonance, i found that the rhythmic propulsiveness and greater variety of ideas made these pieces much more accessible than his work from e.g. Corrente onwards. they stimulate the mind somewhat more. maybe i'm the only person who's found this. i can't speak for any more lasting impact than his more "consonant" pieces—no idea which of these i'd return to—but they are at least more engaging on a superficial level.
(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/825646723065.jpg)

the only pieces of lindberg's i've found myself really returning to are Tendenza (to an extent) and Action-Situation-Signification, which is like nothing else in his output and much the better for it >:)

I'm pretty surprised to see you lump Shostakovich and a hack like John Williams together. I definitely don't think John Williams is a worthwhile composer. Shostakovich, on the other hand, was a serious, troubled composer who, while not necessarily an innovator, is a very worthwhile composer IMHO. You're obviously free to feel any way you want about the music, but history has proven Shostakovich's worth as a composer and, in turn, has been quite kind to him. I can't predict the future, but I can honestly say that Shostakovich will probably enjoy a nice, fruitful existence in the concert hall unlike someone like John Williams who didn't compose anything that could be taken as a piece of art. All in my opinion of course.

As far as Lindberg goes, I found his early music to not be very distinctive. It's just one wash to me. There's no substance or variety in the music. It works completely on a dissonant level, which doesn't necessarily appeal to me. I like composers who can provide relief from the dissonance. Thankfully, for me,  Lindberg's later music has proven to be quite good and contain plenty of melodic ideas that help me access the music. There's still dissonance, but there's plenty of access points that help guide the listener along. For me, Graffiti is one of his better newer compositions. Concerto for Orchestra is also enjoyable. Of his early music, I do like Kraft. I think that's one of his better works from this period.

Anyway, we enjoy what we enjoy and that's all that matters in the end.

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 02, 2013, 08:16:11 AM
I'm pretty surprised to see you lump Shostakovich and a hack like John Williams together. I definitely don't think John Williams is a worthwhile composer. Shostakovich, on the other hand, was a serious, troubled composer who, while not necessarily an innovator, is a very worthwhile composer IMHO. You're obviously free to feel any way you want about the music, but history has proven Shostakovich's worth as a composer and, in turn, has been quite kind to him. I can't predict the future, but I can honestly say that Shostakovich will probably enjoy a nice, fruitful existence in the concert hall unlike someone like John Williams who didn't compose anything that could be taken as a piece of art. All in my opinion of course.

well, i wasn't the one who lumped them together; that was the person who told me to stop composing in "that style" (which apparently to them meant "anything with consonance in it"). all i said was that neither one was a composer i was especially interested in. williams's concert music has made no impression on me (i don't really watch movies so i don't know his film scores) and shostakovich's music is, well. formulaic? idk, i feel that a lot of his compositions consist of re-arranging four or five standard "topics" over and over again in different ways. certainly history's been kind to him, but that's because Shostakovich the composer has become largely intertwined with Shostakovich the anti-communist icon. had he lived in England or Germany rather than the Soviet Union i suspect history would have a rather different assessment (although audiences, i think, wouldn't care much either way).

the cello concertos are nice tho

Quote
As far as Lindberg goes, I found his early music to not be very distinctive. It's just one wash to me. There's no substance or variety in the music. It works completely on a dissonant level, which doesn't necessarily appeal to me. I like composers who can provide relief from the dissonance. Thankfully, for me,  Lindberg's later music has proven to be quite good and contain plenty of melodic ideas that help me access the music. There's still dissonance, but there's plenty of access points that help guide the listener along. For me, Graffiti is one of his better newer compositions. Concerto for Orchestra is also enjoyable. Of his early music, I do like Kraft. I think that's one of his better works from this period.

Anyway, we enjoy what we enjoy and that's all that matters in the end.

indeed. it's interesting that your reactions to Lindberg's earlier and more recent works are practically the mirror image of mine ;P

i don't know Graffiti. people have also told me Al largo is good, and more of a departure from the standard "Lindberg sound". so who knows, might give it a go.

Quote from: dyn on January 02, 2013, 08:58:19 AM
well, i wasn't the one who lumped them together; that was the person who told me to stop composing in "that style" (which apparently to them meant "anything with consonance in it"). all i said was that neither one was a composer i was especially interested in. williams's concert music has made no impression on me (i don't really watch movies so i don't know his film scores) and shostakovich's music is, well. formulaic? idk, i feel that a lot of his compositions consist of re-arranging four or five standard "topics" over and over again in different ways. certainly history's been kind to him, but that's because Shostakovich the composer has become largely intertwined with Shostakovich the anti-communist icon. had he lived in England or Germany rather than the Soviet Union i suspect history would have a rather different assessment (although audiences, i think, wouldn't care much either way).

the cello concertos are nice tho

Well, the history of Shostakovich can't help but to be intertwined with what he composed considering Stalin was breathing down his neck for what 30 years? He's my absolute favorite composer, so my opinion may be a little biased. ;) If hypothetically, Shostakovich lived in England or Germany, he would have become a much more experimental composer I imagine which his early music points to this direction, but the fact that he had to reinvent his style almost overnight to please the Soviet authorities, while retaining an original compositional voice, is, quite frankly, astonishing. Regardless of what your friend says and what he continues to tell you, he was a remarkable composer and is acknowledged as one by scholars, critics, musicians, and listeners around the world.

FYI, I don't think much of the Cello Concertos. :)

Quote from: dyn on January 02, 2013, 08:58:19 AMindeed. it's interesting that your reactions to Lindberg's earlier and more recent works are practically the mirror image of mine ;P

i don't know Graffiti. people have also told me Al largo is good, and more of a departure from the standard "Lindberg sound". so who knows, might give it a go.

Lindberg isn't a composer I listen to a lot of these days, but, again, Graffiti and the Violin Concerto have remained works that I play more than any others.

Now on Dacapo's release schedule is a collection of Lindberg orchestral works (http://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/recording-magnus-lindberg--orchestral-works.aspx). Alan Gilbert leads the NY Philharmonic, and from the presence of soloist Yefim Bronfman, it's clear that one of the pieces will be Lindberg's Piano Concerto No. 2.

It's strange that this is appearing on Dacapo, as Lindberg is not Danish. There is however a preexisting relationship between the NY Philharmonic under Gilbert and Dacapo, as they are recording the Nielsen symphonies. If Dacapo is looking to become a more general Nordic label, I wonder if this means Ondine is pretty much finished (their release schedule has been decimated).

Just listened to the world premiere of what I think is Magnus Lindberg's newest orchestral work, Era, written in 2012 for the 125th anniversary of the Concertgebouw, orchestra and concert hall together. A very enjoyable work with lots of moods, and some stuff that I haven't heard in him before, including some quasi-jazzy moments. However, the work is unmistakeable Lindberg, and those of us that know his recent works know what to expect for the most part.

Coming soon! Finally!

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I've heard all three of those works and I can say that this new, most recent Lindberg is decent, but not anywhere near his greatest works of the 90s like the first Piano Concerto, Feria, etc. EXPO is a vapid, empty concert-raiser that is easily forgotten after you hear it. The Piano Concerto No. 2 is a great work that reminds me quite a bit of Salonen's Piano Concerto, which should be no coincidence since both were written for Yefim Bronfman, only it doesn't have the awkward piano writing of the Salonen, since Lindberg himself is a great pianist. In the cadenza at the end are some some not-so-obvious but hilarious indirect quotations from a few famous piano concertos. Al Largo is a great work, but perhaps a bit too long. It reminds me of the Concerto for Orchestra a bit. Too bad the Souvenir in Memoriam Gérard Grisey didn't make it on the disk. That is perhaps Lindberg's best work from the past 5 years.

Quote from: lescamil on April 26, 2013, 09:13:05 PM
I've heard all three of those works and I can say that this new, most recent Lindberg is decent, but not anywhere near his greatest works of the 90s like the first Piano Concerto, Feria, etc. EXPO is a vapid, empty concert-raiser that is easily forgotten after you hear it. The Piano Concerto No. 2 is a great work that reminds me quite a bit of Salonen's Piano Concerto, which should be no coincidence since both were written for Yefim Bronfman, only it doesn't have the awkward piano writing of the Salonen, since Lindberg himself is a great pianist. In the cadenza at the end are some some not-so-obvious but hilarious indirect quotations from a few famous piano concertos. Al Largo is a great work, but perhaps a bit too long. It reminds me of the Concerto for Orchestra a bit. Too bad the Souvenir in Memoriam Gérard Grisey didn't make it on the disk. That is perhaps Lindberg's best work from the past 5 years.

Considering I'm not fond of 90s Lindberg, this should be right up my alley. :) I like the new direction Lindberg has gone in while some others apparently don't. I do need to revisit the early works, but I generally found them unmemorable with Kraft being perhaps the best written of them all.

Just as a quick heads up re: lescamil's comment about Souvenir in memoriam Gerard Grisey, this disc comes out next week:

[asin]B00DU63350[/asin]

Nice to see a second recording of a new violin concerto, and this coupling is more useful than Batiashvili's.

I'll assume that Jubilees is related to the piano work of the same name.

Jubilees is basically an orchestrated version of the piano work by the same name. There isn't much musical elaboration, and the timings of the pieces are similar. Still, I'm excited to get Souvenir on disk, finally. All we need is a recording of Era and the Aldeburgh Trio (Bubo Bubo, Counter Phrases, and Red House). Red House and Souvenir are perhaps my favorite pieces by Lindberg that he has composed in the past 10 years. Perhaps it's no coincidence that these pieces are for chamber ensemble, not full orchestra?

Quote from: edward on August 24, 2013, 07:06:18 AM
Nice to see a second recording of a new violin concerto, and this coupling is more useful than Batiashvili's.

This may very well be the case but will the performance be as magnificent as Bastiashvili's? That's yet to be determined. Plus, her recording can be bought for next to nothing.

LIGHTNING ROUND!!

The rabbit trail led to Lindberg today (how diiid that happen?) and, since I noticed there hasn't been any new news, I thought that an Emergency Re-Evaluation was in order. What Is the Most Essential Lindberg?

1) Sony w/Cello Concerto

2) Sony w/Violin Concerto

3) Clarinet Cto. (Ondine)

4) Piano Cto./KRAFT (Ondine)

5) Finlandia 2-cd

6) Ondine Box

7) Ondine 1 Marea/Kinetics/Joy... I had this once and let it go. Maybe I'm like MI and just didn't respond?

8) Ondine 2... I remember being disappointed when this came out

9) Ondine 3... I remember being disappointed when this came out

10) Ondine 4

11) Ondine 5

12) Ondine 6

13) DG Engine/Aura... I remember being disappointed when this came out

14) Eotvos... Corrente/Ur/Dup Concertante/Joy


I'm pretty sure that's it (except for the PC 2 disc which I'm not interested in). What happened to Lindberg in my heart? He was... then he isn't... now he looks like Skellan Skasgaard?... what's going on? One work. Maybe two. I just don't even want to bother, wtf?

Lindberg is now composer-in-residence with the London Philharmonic. A concert (http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/lpo-150128-80908?dt=2015-01-28) in January 2015 will be the world premiere of a work he has written for soprano and orchestra. This should be interesting, as Lindberg has paid almost no attention to voices in his almost 4-decade career.

Remember, snyprrr, you used to have a bunch of Lindberg,... just forget about it,... move on,...

Quote from: snyprrr on April 13, 2014, 01:59:55 PM
LIGHTNING ROUND!!

The rabbit trail led to Lindberg today (how diiid that happen?) and, since I noticed there hasn't been any new news, I thought that an Emergency Re-Evaluation was in order. What Is the Most Essential Lindberg?

1) Sony w/Cello Concerto

2) Sony w/Violin Concerto

3) Clarinet Cto. (Ondine)

4) Piano Cto./KRAFT (Ondine)

5) Finlandia 2-cd

6) Ondine Box

7) Ondine 1 Marea/Kinetics/Joy... I had this once and let it go. Maybe I'm like MI and just didn't respond?

8) Ondine 2... I remember being disappointed when this came out

9) Ondine 3... I remember being disappointed when this came out

10) Ondine 4

11) Ondine 5

12) Ondine 6

13) DG Engine/Aura... I remember being disappointed when this came out

14) Eotvos... Corrente/Ur/Dup Concertante/Joy


I'm pretty sure that's it (except for the PC 2 disc which I'm not interested in). What happened to Lindberg in my heart? He was... then he isn't... now he looks like Skellan Skasgaard?... what's going on? One work. Maybe two. I just don't even want to bother, wtf?

I chanced the SONY disc, and am listening to the Cello Concerto.

I like it,- somewhat an up-dated Lutoslawski?,...more adventurous than WL,... I'm not done yet, but this is just what I would expect a Modern CC to sound like,... it has some balls goin'! Again, a very attractive piece. I haven't yet tried the rest of the disc

Quote from: snyprrr on October 10, 2015, 01:36:59 PM
I chanced the SONY disc, and am listening to the Cello Concerto.

I like it,- somewhat an up-dated Lutoslawski?,...more adventurous than WL,... I'm not done yet, but this is just what I would expect a Modern CC to sound like,... it has some balls goin'! Again, a very attractive piece. I haven't yet tried the rest of the disc

Finishing up that SONY disc, enjoyed the bubbling 'Fresco' and 'Parada', on to the 'Cantigas'. Frankly, right now, this seems to be the only ML I'll need for a while. The only work I'm interested in now is 'KRAFT' (which recording???), and, I don't know, I'd even go so far as to try that Ondine 'Marea-Joy-Kinetics' disc again.

BUT THAT'S IT BRUTHA!!

How do you all like the Violin Concerto?

I wasn't all that taken with with of the Piano Concert...i...

I did enjoy the Cello Concerto which I got TWO YEARS AGO!! (what's up with this Thread??)

Quote from: snyprrr on October 21, 2017, 07:46:49 AM
How do you all like the Violin Concerto?

I wasn't all that taken with with of the Piano Concert...i...

I did enjoy the Cello Concerto which I got TWO YEARS AGO!! (what's up with this Thread??)

Finally listening now to LisaB's Violin Concerto. Wait... have I heard this before? The opening seems to remind me an awful lot of Lutoslawski,... I'm up to the gliss slides, and now the music begins to build some momentum...

So far, it's "ok", but I can't help but compare this to Late Lutoslawski, which we all know represents a step back from the pure High Modernism of the 60s and 70s. I think I'm listening to a more refined 'Chain' or 'Partita'...

Isn't the Cello Concerto much more adventurous? (I have it here somewhere...)


I'm almost feeling... Debussy?,... but definitely Lutoslawski and Dutilleux... in their more conservative moments...


I'm 7mins. in and I'm glad I listened before I bought. It just sounds too much like a regular ol' VC,... how does it compare with Ligeti or Norgard? Obviously, both of those are more adventurous. At 8:30 I feel like I'm in the alps with Strauss!

or even a mild Szymanowski... I'm also hearing lots of 4ths and 5ths, making it sound like Nielsen's "court music"...




I guess it's trying to be somewhat "cosmic", but... mm... I mean, it's ok... trying to be mysterious but not enough for me... it reminds me a little of LOTR, or 1916 Romanticism...


meh

I'm at the cadenza...

Had it been by Rautavaara I might have esteemed it more? The ending just sounds kind of regular to me...

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81UkE52uPRL._AC_SL425_.jpg)

This 4 cd set is made up of reissued Ondine performances. The publisher chose not to replicate the original disc contents - some pieces of which are not included, like the piano concerto, originally paired with Kraft. Instead, the arrangement of works is a strictly chronological one, starting in 1982 (Tendenza) and ending in 2005 (Sculpture). Post-2005 works can be found on newer discs - Lindberg is still very much active.

The booklet notes take this chronological view in perspective to assess the place of the early works: « Lindberg's early works are the product of an angry young Modernist ». The danger of building a cereer as an angry young Modernist is that someone younger will come after you, and will take the edge off your brand of anger and modernism. The young Mark Anthony Turnage (b. 1960) for example sounds more 'modern' to me than the young Lindberg, his own anger more punkish and provocative while not afraid to sound like an unashamed tout.

That is not to say that Lindberg remained an 'angry young Modernist' forever. « For me, the inspiring thing about composition is that every work contains something completely new but also something from the previous work » (from a 1995 interview). IOW he sees his work as in a constant flux, evolving over a long period of time, without abrupt transitions. This helps put a stamp on every work, a recognizable idiom: « Lindberg's music is definitely goal-oriented and as inexorable in its progress as a natural force. »

Disc 1 contains Tendenza (1982), Kraft (1985), Kinetics (1989) and Marea (1990). The first piece is certainly angry and turbulent. Kraft too is quite agitated, but it is also more organized and much more expansive. Lindberg was clearly making a major statement. He devoted lavish care in the design of the work, devising a computer program to manage its complex rythms and harmonies. It is not surprising that it has been one of his most often played works.

With Kinetics and Marea, Lindberg assimilated some of the influence of the spectralists (Murail, Grisey). «I used to write music like chiselling stone, but now I am softer, moulding clay instead ». This is an interesting statement. Kinetics is not all that different in sound world than Kraft, but the narrative is clearer, the textures darker (low winds, brass and percussion have a field day), some big chords held for a long time, as if to impress by the sheer weight of their sonority. The music is still restless, but less agitated. Marea takes the opposite direction, the music evolving toward ever brighter sonorities. These two works were composed as a trilogy, the third part being Joy (1990), which is longer (26 minutes) than the other two combined. Written for large instrumental ensemble, it has parts for electronics. This was Lindberg's most consonant work to date. He would not pursue in that direction, stating jokingly that « the next step would be Hollywood ! ». That of course is a pun, as there is nothing traditional in any sense in the work. I find it post-bergian.

(NB: quotes in italics are from the Ondine booklet).

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81UkE52uPRL._AC_SL425_.jpg)

Discs 3 and 4 comprise the following works:

Arena (1995) for large orchestra.
Arena II (1996) for chamber orchestra.
Feria (1997).
Grand Duo (2000) for woodwinds and brass.
Chorale (2002), written as a prelude to a performance of Berg's violin concerto.
Concerto for Orchestra (2003).
Sculpture (2005).

These works come from a slightly later phase in the composer's development. Textures are more shimmering but also weightier. Lindberg's idiom is still distinctly modern sounding, but it becomes more symphonic in the traditional sense. The major works here are Arena, Feria, the concerto for orchestra and Sculpture. Each comes across as a grand statement, with a distinctive compositional design and orchestral sound. Particularly original is the last work, where Lindberg deploys a very large orchestra (quadruple wwinds, large percussion section, Wagner tubas, organ, 2 pianos, 2 harps) but dispenses with the violins altogether. The sound is dark, weighty, the mood ominous. Commissioned by fellow finn composer Esa-Pekka Salonen for the inauguration of the Walt Disney Hall, for which occasion the wind players were distributed around the hall.

Arena and Feria are conducted by Jukka-Pekka Saraste, all the rest by Sakari Oramo. An all-Finn affair.

I respond better to Lindberg's later works, where gestures are bigger and the sound world very sophisticated, with no trace of aggressiveness