I have only the Karajan/EMI recording of this work, which I was sent as a wonderfully gracious gift by a GMG forum member. So I have nothing to compare the recording to (being that it's Karajan I'm guessing it's at least one of the best recordings, period). So I'm aiming at commenting mainly on the work itself.
One can see where the advanced harmonic complexities that distinguished Richard Wagner's later works have been both assimilated and turned into something different...for serious lack of a better term, DeBussy-ian. Particularly in the second and third acts, the melodic content can only be identified after one takes a big step back from the piece. DeBussy is quoted as saying that he wrote most of the melody for the orchestra, not voice, but there are subtle juxtapositions throughout the aforementioned acts. At times it seems that the 1st act is the least accessible, and one wonders whether DeBussy was extra concerned over starting things "with a blast", that is, to scare away the "easy listening" crowd of his day. The young Strauss certainly loved that sort of thing, and they were rough contemporaries.
After having checked out the score, I see how relatively few instruments were written for the opera, particularly for one in the late 19th century. This is itself distances the work from Wagner's works. The actual dynamics concerning the orchestra ("tutti" passages, etc.) are overall on a smaller scale, but not entirely abberant in light of the scaled down number of instruments. At times it does feel more intimate between the singers and groups of instruments because of this streamlining technique.
Finally, the motifs showcased throughout this piece are often frustratingly subtle, but after several listens they become apparent...well, mostly. This is one of those pieces that it pays to play it repeatedly, because it can be much like a puzzle. Little bits add up to big bits. It took me five listens to finally "get" this opera at all, and by that I mean the 2nd and 3rd acts. The first act is still beyond me due to its seemingly intentional, obfuscatory layout. It reminds me of the second act of Tristan und Isolde, to this day I end up mystified three-quarters-of-the-way through it, despite enjoying immensely the rest of the opera.
I have been comparing this alot to Wagner, and for good reason. I believe that DeBussy himself was quite the sycophant for Parsifal, and I think that the 2nd and 3rd acts show that influence most obviously. But I'm mostly talking about the more byzantine, complex parts of Parsifal...not the more accessible motifs we are all aware of . In fact, the third act itself brings to mind the second act of Wagner's crowning achievement.
So, I feel a bit impudent in writing this, when I'm still only five listens in. I'd love for anyone to elaborate further, particularly those whom have been listening to the piece longer.
You probably hear a lot of "Wagnerizing" in Karajan's performance because that's precisely how he spins the music. This is Debussy through a Wagner prism.
I used to have Karajan's recording and while he makes a case for the work as late romantic, others I feel tend to find more modernism in it. Especially the French recordings from the middle of 20th century, starting with Desormière's pioneering account, to Ansermet, to Cluytens, to Baudo.
Each of these have that eminent "French" quality in that they downplay weight and grandeur and emphasize the subtle play of light and shade. Which I think perfectly complements the whispery quality of the libretto.
I think if you're looking for a recording to put on the shelf next to Karajan with a suitably contrasting style you can't do any better than Cluytens. The orchestra, the cast, the execution, all add up to highest quality. The sound is mono, recorded in 1956, but it's amazingly realistic and full.
FWIW, this is a work I love immensely and currently own five recordings of it (Cluytens, Baudo, Dutoit, Abbado, and Haitink).
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a5/20/948b793509a0197510bd2110.L.jpg)
Pelleas ideally ought not to sound like Wagner. It's lighter and more delicate, more beautiful,and more elusive. And Clarity is crucial. The Karajan recording actually isn't too bad - but as donwyn points out, it presents the work as more of a late romatic work. I prefer French conductors here, as well, and above all Desormière and Boulez. The Desormière set is in superb sound for its age (it's from 1941), with a definite focus on voices. The Boulez DVD is pistine and slightly cool, and as transparent as one could wish for, and has in Alison Hagley an appealing Melisande I do have to sample that Cluytens recording, I think.
Todd,
Actually, I would recommend the 1970 Boulez on EMI with Elisabeth Soderstrom, George Shirley and Donald McIntyre before his DVD.
Quote from: Todd on September 06, 2008, 05:21:30 PM
The Desormière set is in superb sound for its age (it's from 1941), with a definite focus on voices.
Yes, this is essentially how Cluytens approaches the work, too. But the orchestra definitely plays an active role.
I actually have the Abbado recording, but never got around to listening to all of it.
These are all excellent reccomendations, thanks to all of you. I found Todd's post in particular to be really interesting in regard to the Wagner comparison.
I have thought of DeBussy's work as straddling the late-Romantic-to-"atonal" era. Now I see that he possibly could have been the essential break from the Romantic. Perhaps even morese than Strauss (though Strauss definitely had a big part in it, in my opinion).
Quote from: AndyD. on September 07, 2008, 03:39:48 AM
These are all excellent reccomendations, thanks to all of you. I found Todd's post in particular to be really interesting in regard to the Wagner comparison.
I have thought of DeBussy's work as straddling the late-Romantic-to-"atonal" era. Now I see that he possibly could have been the essential break from the Romantic. Perhaps even morese than Strauss (though Strauss definitely had a big part in it, in my opinion).
Andy,
I have always found it very puzzling how many commentators like to situate Debussy's 'Pelleas et Melisande' firmly within the scope of Modernism. They see it as a modernist drama par excellence that should be linked closely to say, Bartok's 'Bluebeard's Castle' or Berg's 'Wozzeck'. They also refer to 'Pelleas' as a 20th century opera. But it was composed between September 1893 and August 1898!
Yes, Debussy cared a lot about creating a kind of music that sounded uniquely French (i.e. that wasn't too much in the thrall of Wagner and other 19th century Germans) and he was interested in creating a musical language that reflected the subtle, elusive meanings of symbolist poetry. But 'Pelleas' predates a lot of the techniques found in early 20th century music by quite a bit. I suppose the only thing one can say is that Bartok's opera is as Hungarian as 'Pelleas' is French. 'Wozzeck' too is strikingly dissimilar to me, it is truly modern. To my ears it has nothing in common with either Bartok's 'Bluebeard's Castle' or Berg's 'Wozzeck'.
I have always viewed
P&M as the most sophisticated of all operas... A uniquely beautiful and exquisite work of late 19th century romanticism.
Quote from: Homo Aestheticus on September 07, 2008, 07:19:39 AM
I have always found it very puzzling how many commentators like to situate Debussy's 'Pelleas et Melisande' firmly within the scope of Modernism. They see it as a modernist drama par excellence that should be linked closely to say, Bartok's 'Bluebeard's Castle' or Berg's 'Wozzeck'. They also refer to 'Pelleas' as a 20th century opera. But it was composed between September 1893 and August 1898!
Well, Pink, if many commentators see Pelleas as modernist then they are simply acknowledging the work for what it is.
Debussy sought to move away from the Wagnerian ethos in the theater - something you acknowledge. And most French recordings echo this shift.
Like it or not by the 1890's modernism was sprouting up everywhere, and it's long been established Debussy was at the
forefront of this movement. Pelleas fell naturally into place.
Downyn,
Well, those commentators/critics should then also acknowledge that 'Pelleas', 'Wozzeck' and 'Bluebeard' are radically different works - in both aesthetic and technique.
Quote from: Homo Aestheticus on September 07, 2008, 08:34:47 AM
Downyn,
Well, those commentators/critics should then also acknowledge that 'Pelleas', 'Wozzeck' and 'Bluebeard' are radically different works - in both aesthetic and technique.
Yes, because those other works aren't "sophisticated" enough. I get it.
Quote from: donwyn on September 07, 2008, 09:12:30 AM
Yes, because those other works aren't "sophisticated" enough. I get it.
Downyn,
I was not implying that.
Yes, the term Modernism refers to a vast range of styles : French Symbolism, Surrealism, and German Expressionism (Dada, Futurism, etc.) but do you seriously think that those 3 operas are similar in aesthetic and technique ?
Quote from: Todd on September 06, 2008, 05:21:30 PM
Pelleas ideally ought not to sound like Wagner. It's lighter and more delicate, more beautiful,and more elusive. And Clarity is crucial. The Karajan recording actually isn't too bad - but as donwyn points out, it presents the work as more of a late romatic work. I prefer French conductors here, as well, and above all Desormière and Boulez. The Desormière set is in superb sound for its age (it's from 1941), with a definite focus on voices. The Boulez DVD is pistine and slightly cool, and as transparent as one could wish for, and has in Alison Hagley an appealing Melisande I do have to sample that Cluytens recording, I think.
Todd,
Karajan's version is the best as far as the orchestra goes... Dark, heavy, ominous, superheated and gorgeous.
No one luxuriates in the score's physical sound as he does.... He makes this music sound so different as if some treasure had remained undiscovered for years and years.
I read an interview in which he said that the 1978 recording was his finest achievement.
Quote from: M forever on September 06, 2008, 07:46:58 PM
I actually have the Abbado recording, but never got around to listening to all of it.
M,
Just a suggestion:
You really ought to put aside whatever it is you are listening to right now and make the exploration of
Pelleas et Melisande your first priority because, my friend, Debussy's opera is one of the absolute wonders of Western music...
(Just make sure that your first exposure to it is with Karajan EMI (1978)
Quote from: donwyn on September 07, 2008, 09:12:30 AM
Yes, because those other works aren't "sophisticated" enough. I get it.
Downyn,
Pelleas, Bluebeard and Wozzeck are similar in aesthetic and technique... Is that what you're saying ?
Quote from: M forever on September 06, 2008, 07:46:58 PM
I actually have the Abbado recording, but never got around to listening to all of it.
Same here. I have had it for as long as I remember but never gotten around to listening to it. I sampled it here and there but nothing really attracted me.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on September 10, 2008, 05:40:23 PM
Same here. I have had it for as long as I remember but never gotten around to listening to it. I sampled it here and there but nothing really attracted me.
PW,
Well that's understandable for 2 reasons:
1) Abbado should never have tried his hand with this opera; he doesn't understand it.... There is no lushness, no
Parsifalian reminisces... nothing.
2) Pelleas here (Le Roux) has the most annoying voice.
Btw, I am very surprised to hear an ardent Wagnerian such as yourself say that nothing in this most exquisite of operas attracted you. That is very sad.
Thanks to whoever it was who unmasked the "Pink Harp" behind this new username. At least that way we won't be tempted to waste any time corresponding with him.
I want to see Pelleas et Melisande performed at Bayreuth every summer. The Germans need to make just one exception and lift the ban to include this most sincere, sensitive, subtle, sophisticated, eloquent and exquisite of all operas.
Quote from: Homo Aestheticus on September 10, 2008, 08:16:43 PM
I want to see Pelleas et Melisande performed at Bayreuth every summer.
(Envy)
Envy what? He said "want", not "went".
I don't know why a capital B in the name Debussy jars as much as it does . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on September 11, 2008, 12:06:15 PM
I don't know why a capital B in the name Debussy jars as much as it does . . . .
I was waiting for someone to say that - desperately hoping it wasn't just me!
Quote from: Homo Aestheticus on September 10, 2008, 08:16:43 PM
I want to see Pelleas et Melisande performed at Bayreuth every summer.
Now you know that will never happen. Set your sights on a goal that has some viability.
Quote from: Don on September 12, 2008, 12:07:55 PM
Now you know that will never happen. Set your sights on a goal that has some viability.
For some folks, there's Fantasy Football; I don't mind allowing
Eric this pipedream 8)
Quote from: AndyD. on September 06, 2008, 02:10:06 PMI have only the Karajan/EMI recording of this work, which I was sent as a wonderfully gracious gift by a GMG forum member.
;)
0:)
(* Jeevesian cough *) (http://npw-opera-concerts.blogspot.com/2008/09/debussy-pellas-et-mlisande.html)
Especially noteworthy:
Quote from: nwFor lovers of the work (they exist: the worldwide web has made public all manner of eccentricities. I confess it does absolutely nothing for me) . . . .
In the Opera on DVD topic is a P&M mentioned by T-C, making it almost worth a trip to Vienna next year: Laurent directs it and it's with Dessay, Naouri and the new sensational French baritone Decout. 8)
Quote from: karlhenning on November 05, 2008, 12:51:01 PM
(* Jeevesian cough *) (http://npw-opera-concerts.blogspot.com/2008/09/debussy-pellas-et-mlisande.html)
Especially noteworthy:
Karl,
I'll see your npw quote and raise you this:
Quote from: lukeottevanger on October 12, 2008, 11:15:33 PM
Nothing wrong with loving P+M - there are few works I love more myself.
;D
Quote from: donwyn on September 06, 2008, 04:18:04 PM
You probably hear a lot of "Wagnerizing" in Karajan's performance because that's precisely how he spins the music. This is Debussy through a Wagner prism.
I used to have Karajan's recording and while he makes a case for the work as late romantic, others I feel tend to find more modernism in it. Especially the French recordings from the middle of 20th century, starting with Desormière's pioneering account, to Ansermet, to Cluytens, to Baudo.
Each of these have that eminent "French" quality in that they downplay weight and grandeur and emphasize the subtle play of light and shade. Which I think perfectly complements the whispery quality of the libretto.
I think if you're looking for a recording to put on the shelf next to Karajan with a suitably contrasting style you can't do any better than Cluytens. The orchestra, the cast, the execution, all add up to highest quality. The sound is mono, recorded in 1956, but it's amazingly realistic and full.
FWIW, this is a work I love immensely and currently own five recordings of it (Cluytens, Baudo, Dutoit, Abbado, and Haitink).
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a5/20/948b793509a0197510bd2110.L.jpg)
Thanks much, Donwyn. I just clicked "Complete Your Order". ;) de los Angeles was the kicker.
Pelléas et Mélisande is the one opera I have no problem listening to on a whim -- love it! I have the Dutoit recording.
Quote from: moldyoldie on November 16, 2008, 02:53:04 PM
Thanks much, Donwyn. I just clicked "Complete Your Order". ;) de los Angeles was the kicker.
Pelléas et Mélisande is the one opera I have no problem listening to on a whim -- love it! I have the Dutoit recording.
I think you've got yourself a good one, moldy. Yes, de los Angeles is great. Keep us posted!
Is the Libretto with an English translation available online?
Oh, I hope not.
Ah - IMSLP has them, naturally!
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=post;topic=8963.20;num_replies=33
Quote from: Guido on August 21, 2009, 09:25:19 AM
Ah - IMSLP has them, naturally!
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=post;topic=8963.20;num_replies=33
Hmmm. That link just makes a reply to this thread. Here's the IMSLP page: http://imslp.org/wiki/Pell%C3%A9as_et_M%C3%A9lisande_(Debussy,_Claude) (http://imslp.org/wiki/Pell%C3%A9as_et_M%C3%A9lisande_(Debussy,_Claude))
That translation's pretty dated. Decca used to have the booklet for the Ansermet recording in their "Compact Opera Collection" series online, but I can't find it (the libretto, I can find the recording) at their website. I'll check the recording when I get home and see if the address they give still works.
Edit: The Decca libretto is at http://www.deccaclassics.com/compactoperacollection/libretti/ (http://www.deccaclassics.com/compactoperacollection/libretti/).
Quote from: Wendell_E on August 21, 2009, 10:22:52 AM
Edit: The Decca libretto is at http://www.deccaclassics.com/compactoperacollection/libretti/ (http://www.deccaclassics.com/compactoperacollection/libretti/).
Anyone have this?
It indicates that the page is not available. I assume you are looking for the libretto.
I have had a look around. On-line, I can see the following.
http://www.naxos.com/education/opera_libretti.asp?pn=&char=ALL&composer=Debussy&opera=Pelleas_et_Melisande&libretto_file=Act_I.htm
However, it is not translated, so I am not sure it is what you want.
Mike
Quote from: knight on December 19, 2010, 12:27:38 PM
However, it is not translated, so I am not sure it is what you want.
Mike
Thanks for your help. Yes, I was hoping someone who has the Ansermet set had downloaded the libretto while the page was still up.
Quote from: Clever Hans on December 19, 2010, 04:34:23 PM
Thanks for your help. Yes, I was hoping someone who has the Ansermet set had downloaded the libretto while the page was still up.
I found a French/English libretto here: http://imslp.org/wiki/File:PMLP09094-Debussy-PelleasLibrettoFE.pdf
The translation's a bit old and musty ("How old may you be?"). I
may have a copy of the libretto from the Decca recording on my home computer. I'll check and see when I get home this afternoon.
Quote from: Wendell_E on December 20, 2010, 08:00:20 AM
I found a French/English libretto here: http://imslp.org/wiki/File:PMLP09094-Debussy-PelleasLibrettoFE.pdf
The translation's a bit old and musty ("How old may you be?"). I may have a copy of the libretto from the Decca recording on my home computer. I'll check and see when I get home this afternoon.
Thanks!
You're welcome. I checked, and no longer have that Decca/Ansermet libretto.
I appreciate your checking and thanks for the imslp.org tip.
in reply to a post in the "what are you listening to" thread, but I thought it's more appropriate over here (got to read through this thread now):
Quote from: ritter on May 27, 2016, 10:21:49 AM
Debussy+Pelléas+Boulez=Merveilleux!!!! :)
Yes indeed!
But even better was last night's live event at Zurich Opera:
PELLÉAS ET MÉLISANDE
Opera by Claude Debussy
Conductor Alain Altinoglu
Orchestra Philharmonia Zürich
Choir Zusatzchor der Oper Zürich, SoprAlti
Arkel, König von Allemonde Brindley Sherratt
Pelléas, Arkels Enkel Jacques Imbrailo
Golaud, Arkels Enkel Kyle Ketelsen
Yniold, Golauds Sohn aus erster Ehe Damien Göritz
Ein Arzt Charles Dekeyser
Mélisande Corinne Winters
Geneviève, Mutter von Golaud Yvonne Naef
Pelléas' Vater Reinhard Mayr
Inszenierung und Bühne Dmitri Tcherniakov
Costumes Elena Zaytseva
Light-Design Gleb Filshtinsky
Video-Design Tieni Burkhalter
Chorus master Jürg Hämmerli
Dramaturgy Beate Breidenbach
As so often, getting visuals really helped me getting into this opera, which is sort of uneventful after all ... and I still have a bit of a hard time hearing the many qualities of the piece when listening at home. But the staging here in Zurich got very good reviews, good enough for me to end up snatching the last ticket of the cheapest category ... best thing: I had checked in the afternoon, I had the seventh and last place in a box with two times three seats in front of me, and only one of those was sold - that person never turned up, so I had the box for myself (the seat I ended up on would have cost 200$, I paid around 35 ;D, second cheapest would be in the 100$ region already, so there's not much of a choice for mere mortals that attend concerts on a regular basis and not just every three or four months as a special event).
Anyway, Altinoglu really brought the music alive, it was glooming and glowing on low blue flame, at times bursting out (sometimes covering the singers almost completely for a very short moment, but I guess that was part of the effect they aimed at). And the singing was superb all 'round, I though.
They video-recorded last night's performance, so it might be either on one of those private pay tv channels or on DVD, eventually (though I wonder if they can get rid of all the coughing? I am still ill and dragged myself there to not miss anything, and I managed to cough only in breaks or when it was really loud ... and I ate a whole box of cough pastilles, but hey, suffering for art, right? After all, this is protestant Zurich, everything has its price ;))
Either way, I was totally floored and crushed and could have gone into the lake after the performance. Truly outstanding!
The thing that made me think - after all, this seems to be the beginning of modern opera, right? So, the plot is empty, or rather, oblique, half of the dramatis personae is absent (blanks), the characters you get to see remain empty (think Robert Walser, think Samuel Beckett), projections maybe ... so the devastating sadness that is left behind cannot, ultimately, be one induced by the plot itself - which is silly, childish, abstruse, obscure ... you name it, but don't try and pretend you have figured out the one reading of it that holds up against any scrutiny! So that sadness, rather, is the reaction to realizing the emptiness of life as modern age has brought it to the fore. It's the sadness of the drifter (what's that again, Deleuze/Guattari, right? To me, it's Jakob von Gunten) becoming aware of himself. Something like that, which may now sound abstruse and obscure, too.
Pelleas! My secret favorite as a Wagnerian :)
There's a really good one conducted by Désiré-Émile Inghelbrecht.
This one. I have seen other covers as well
Quote from: king ubu on May 27, 2016, 10:59:41 PM
But even better was last night's live event at Zurich Opera:
PELLÉAS ET MÉLISANDE
Opera by Claude Debussy
Conductor Alain Altinoglu
Orchestra Philharmonia Zürich
Choir Zusatzchor der Oper Zürich, SoprAlti
Arkel, König von Allemonde Brindley Sherratt
Pelléas, Arkels Enkel Jacques Imbrailo
Golaud, Arkels Enkel Kyle Ketelsen
Yniold, Golauds Sohn aus erster Ehe Damien Göritz
Ein Arzt Charles Dekeyser
Mélisande Corinne Winters
Geneviève, Mutter von Golaud Yvonne Naef
Pelléas' Vater Reinhard Mayr
Inszenierung und Bühne Dmitri Tcherniakov
Costumes Elena Zaytseva
Light-Design Gleb Filshtinsky
Video-Design Tieni Burkhalter
Chorus master Jürg Hämmerli
Dramaturgy Beate Breidenbach
...
Either way, I was totally floored and crushed and could have gone into the lake after the performance. Truly outstanding!
The thing that made me think - after all, this seems to be the beginning of modern opera, right? So, the plot is empty, or rather, oblique, half of the dramatis personae is absent (blanks), the characters you get to see remain empty (think Robert Walser, think Samuel Beckett), projections maybe ... so the devastating sadness that is left behind cannot, ultimately, be one induced by the plot itself - which is silly, childish, abstruse, obscure ... you name it, but don't try and pretend you have figured out the one reading of it that holds up against any scrutiny! So that sadness, rather, is the reaction to realizing the emptiness of life as modern age has brought it to the fore. It's the sadness of the drifter (what's that again, Deleuze/Guattari, right? To me, it's Jakob von Gunten) becoming aware of himself. Something like that, which may now sound abstruse and obscure, too.
Thanks for the report,
king ubu! Must have been quite an experience.
Altinoglu is a very interesting conductor (his DVD of
Honneger's
Jeanne d'Arc from Montpellier is excellent), and Therniakov can be erratic on occasions, but sometimes provides stunning new inights into pieces that one
thinks one knows very well... And
Pelléas et Mélisande is a simply stunning work, elusive and mysterious..
Quote from: Spineur on May 28, 2016, 05:44:24 AM
This one. I have seen other covers as well
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/480/MI0003480947.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
AFAIK, there's two Ingelbrecht recordings of the opera. the one you mention, Spineur (which I bought some time ago and was not overwhelmed by), and another uerly French effort, originally available in the "golden" series of Montaigne, and in this more recent (but also OOP) release:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/040/MI0001040689.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
The leads are Jacques Janssen, Micheline Grancher and Michel Roux...
for the German-reading crowd, I put up a slightly longer write-up here:
http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/2016/05/pelleas-et-melisande-27-mai-2016.html
The Ingelbrecht (the Testament one) recording is on my pile of yet-unplayed ones (that includes the HvK, the second Ansermet, the Cluytens and - bought because it was mentioned a few days ago somewhere on this site - the Met/Cooper one on Naxos). Heard so far: Desormière, Ansermet 1, Boulez/Sony (seems there's a DVD with a different cast as well).
Thank you for correcting me. There are indeed a 1951 and a 1962 (Théatre des Champs Elysées) recordings. I actually have the gold edition (1962). One can find it on the secondary market for some pretty steep price.
It took me a long time to get into Pelleas. I had attended several live performances over the past two decades and its only in the past year that I was able to turn the key to this opera open. As Ubu said, the libretto of Maurice Maeterlinck, is underwhelming as opera material and this is why its not easy to get into.
Since I saw in the thread that some of you were looking for its actual text, here is a link for you.
http://operacritiques.free.fr/sylvie_maet.pdf (http://operacritiques.free.fr/sylvie_maet.pdf)
Quote from: ritter on May 28, 2016, 06:04:49 AM:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/040/MI0001040689.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
The leads are Jacques Janssen, Micheline Grancher and Michel Roux...
I have this one. I quite like the touch of how music was handled. Good quality of recording, too.
I really enjoyed this short clip, played it over and over again:
https://www.youtube.com/v/wlQRUIWiXxA