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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: KevinP on December 30, 2016, 03:45:51 PM

Title: Name that composer death
Post by: KevinP on December 30, 2016, 03:45:51 PM
I'm not optimistic I'll get a definite answer here, but I'll give it a shot.

Late 70s...possibly very early 80s...I'm watching the news before Carson came on. The anchor announced that a famous composer had died that day. Being a young musician, I was intrigued by this but the name meant nothing to me and I can't remember it now.

I'm pretty sure he was from Europe, but at that time of my life, I was young and untravelled so the world was pretty much the US and the non-US.

The anchor said the composer was known for his sense of humour and quips, one of which was, when asked about a certain woman, 'I knew her before she was a virgin.'

Not much to go on, I know. Any guesses?

Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: kishnevi on December 30, 2016, 04:04:16 PM
Google says the quote was made by Oscar Levant in reference to Doris Day. He died in 1972.
But it also points to Groucho Marx (died 1977) and Milton Berle. But you wouldn't think of them as obscure musicians, and Berle died in 2002.

Were you watching Carson in 1972?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Monsieur Croche on December 30, 2016, 08:20:40 PM
Oscar Levant, indeed.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: KevinP on December 30, 2016, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 30, 2016, 04:04:16 PM
Were you watching Carson in 1972?

When my mom would let me stay up with her. This is definitely later.

Clearly I'm misremembering something

I loved watching reruns of You Bet Your Life while Groucho was still alive and remember his death well (I've even watched  several this week on DVD).

Doris Day is still alive (news to me I much admit), so it's not her death I'm misremembering.

My best theory is that the news reported on a retrospective of Levant's work at the time. Maybe a fifth or tenth anniversary of his death.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on December 31, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
Who was the chap that was killed in a War? Not Butterworth, someone else?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Brian on December 31, 2016, 06:24:26 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 31, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
Who was the chap that was killed in a War? Not Butterworth, someone else?
Magnard? Webern? Butterworth did too.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mirror Image on December 31, 2016, 06:26:56 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 31, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
Who was the chap that was killed in a War? Not Butterworth, someone else?

Getting a bit obscure here: Cecil Coles?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mirror Image on December 31, 2016, 06:41:05 AM
This may be an easy one (for some): this composer died from an infection brought on by a bug bite.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mahlerian on December 31, 2016, 06:45:18 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 31, 2016, 06:41:05 AM
This may be an easy one (for some): this composer died from an infection brought on by a bug bite.

Alban Berg, naturally.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mirror Image on December 31, 2016, 06:49:41 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on December 31, 2016, 06:45:18 AM
Alban Berg, naturally.

Absolutely. That poor guy.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Brian on December 31, 2016, 12:55:39 PM
This composer died peacefully and happily, at a fulfilling old age and surrounded by loved ones.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Ken B on December 31, 2016, 02:35:16 PM
Quote from: Brian on December 31, 2016, 12:55:39 PM
This composer died peacefully and happily, at a fulfilling old age and surrounded by loved ones.
Haydn.
One hopes, Henning.
Boulez?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: North Star on December 31, 2016, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 31, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
Who was the chap that was killed in a War? Not Butterworth, someone else?
William Lawes died in the English Civil War, serving in the King's Life Guards.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on December 31, 2016, 05:54:49 PM
Quote from: North Star on December 31, 2016, 03:05:42 PM
William Lawes died in the English Civil War, serving in the King's Life Guards.
I might have been thinking about Webern:

On 15 September 1945, back at his home during the Allied occupation of Austria, Webern was shot and killed by an American Army soldier following the arrest of his son-in-law for black market activities. This incident occurred when, three-quarters of an hour before a curfew was to have gone into effect, he stepped outside the house so as not to disturb his sleeping grandchildren, in order to enjoy a few draws on a cigar given him that evening by his son-in-law. The soldier responsible for his death was U. S. Army cook Pfc. Raymond Norwood Bell of North Carolina, who was overcome by remorse and died of alcoholism in 1955.[66]
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Ken B on December 31, 2016, 07:32:25 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 31, 2016, 06:26:56 AM
Getting a bit obscure here: Cecil Coles?
He is the only one aside from Butterworth I know of. Debussy died during but not in the war of course.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mirror Image on December 31, 2016, 07:36:22 PM
Quote from: Ken B on December 31, 2016, 07:32:25 PM
He is the only one aside from Butterworth I know of. Debussy died during but not in the war of course.

Yeah, I can't think of any other Brit composers who died during WWI.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Rons_talking on January 11, 2017, 10:33:14 AM
Quote from: KevinP on December 30, 2016, 03:45:51 PM
I'm not optimistic I'll get a definite answer here, but I'll give it a shot.

Late 70s...possibly very early 80s...I'm watching the news before Carson came on. The anchor announced that a famous composer had died that day. Being a young musician, I was intrigued by this but the name meant nothing to me and I can't remember it now.

I'm pretty sure he was from Europe, but at that time of my life, I was young and untravelled so the world was pretty much the US and the non-US.

The anchor said the composer was known for his sense of humour and quips, one of which was, when asked about a certain woman, 'I knew her before she was a virgin.'

Not much to go on, I know. Any guesses?



The only reason Oscar Levant's passing was noteworthy was that he was under contract to MGM and appeared in several films with the big stars. Also, he had a radio show, "Information Please." As a pianist and part-time composer his name wouldn't have made the news...(he was American, a Gershwin specialist). He wrote two great books on his life in music.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Brian on January 11, 2017, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: Ken B on December 31, 2016, 02:35:16 PM
Haydn.
One hopes, Henning.
Boulez?
I honestly didn't know. I was hoping somebody would be able to name one!
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Dedalus on January 11, 2017, 08:23:31 PM
I heard this story some time ago so any detail may be wrong. So I remember being told that a long time ago, in baroque or perhaps even renaissance, conductors didn't use batons but big sticks that they beat on the ground or something to keep time. The story I remember is just that a conductor hit his toe with his conducting stick, it got infected, and he died like two weeks later.

I don't seem to remember this guy being a very important name but more of a grim but funny story. Really hits home the Hobbesian idea of life being nasty, brutal and short.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: DaveF on January 11, 2017, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: Dedalus on January 11, 2017, 08:23:31 PM
I heard this story some time ago so any detail may be wrong.

I don't seem to remember this guy being a very important name but more of a grim but funny story. Really hits home the Hobbesian idea of life being nasty, brutal and short.

No, your details are quite right - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Lully

In the French Baroque, a very important name.  Regarding unusual ways to die, quite unique.  Ironic too that the piece he was conducting was written to celebrate the king's recovery from illness.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2017, 08:21:53 AM
Hint: This composer died following quite a risky brain surgery.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 12, 2017, 08:34:43 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 12, 2017, 08:21:53 AM
Hint: This composer died following quite a risky brain surgery.

Ravel.

Now, who died gun in hand fighting Germans in WWI?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mahlerian on January 12, 2017, 08:36:06 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 12, 2017, 08:34:43 AM
Now, who died gun in hand fighting Germans in WWI?

Magnard, of course.

Who died saying "Mozartl"?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 12, 2017, 08:37:24 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on January 12, 2017, 08:36:06 AM
Who died saying "Mozartl"?

Mahler, of course.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 12, 2017, 08:52:21 AM
These three guys have been stabbed to death.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: listener on January 17, 2017, 12:35:06 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 12, 2017, 08:52:21 AM
These three guys have been stabbed to death.
Alesandro Stradella is one  (had to look up Flotow because I couldn't remember the name)
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 02:17:51 AM
Quote from: listener on January 17, 2017, 12:35:06 PM
Alesandro Stradella is one  (had to look up Flotow because I couldn't remember the name)

Right.

Hint for the other two: they were both French.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: ritter on January 18, 2017, 02:52:54 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 02:17:51 AM
Right.

Hint for the other two: they were both French.
Leclair & Vivier. The story of the Vivier's demise is particularly scabrous (with the piece he was working on when it happened being almost prophetic of the event  ::) )...

An easy one: which composer drowned, after jumping off a lifeboat in an attempt to save his wife's life? The boat on which they were crossing the English Channel had been torpedoed...
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 07:33:49 AM
Quote from: ritter on January 18, 2017, 02:52:54 AM
Leclair & Vivier. The story of the Vivier's demise is particularly scabrous (with the piece he was working on when it happened being almost prophetic of the event  ::) )...

Right on Leclair, wrong on Vivier who was Canadian.  :laugh:

Quote
An easy one: which composer drowned, after jumping off a lifeboat in an attempt to save his wife's life? The boat on which they were crossing the English Channel had been torpedoed...

Enrique Granados.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 08:55:41 AM
Died at the bottom of a steep hill on a bicycle.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 08:57:43 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 08:55:41 AM
Died at the bottom of a steep hill on a bicycle.

Chausson.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 10:21:49 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 08:57:43 AM
Chausson.

10/10 congratulations!  :)
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 10:24:04 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on December 31, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
Who was the chap that was killed in a War? Not Butterworth, someone else?
Ernest Farrar? The teacher of Finzi.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 10:24:44 AM
Crushed under a cupboard full of his music manuscripts.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 10:33:42 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 10:24:44 AM
Crushed under a cupboard full of his music manuscripts.

Alkan.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: North Star on January 18, 2017, 10:45:58 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 10:33:42 AM
Alkan.
Not quite.
QuoteFor many years it was believed that Alkan met his death when a bookcase toppled over and fell on him as he reached for a volume of the Talmud from a high shelf. This tale, which was circulated by the pianist Isidor Philipp,[75] is dismissed by Hugh Macdonald, who reports the discovery of a contemporary letter by one of his pupils explaining that Alkan had been found prostrate in his kitchen, under a porte-parapluie (a heavy coat/umbrella rack), after his concierge heard his moaning. He had possibly fainted, bringing it down on himself while grabbing out for support. He was reportedly carried to his bedroom and died later that evening.[76] The story of the bookcase may have its roots in a legend told of Aryeh Leib ben Asher, rabbi of Metz, the town from which Alkan's family originated.[77]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Valentin_Alkan#Death
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 10:33:42 AM
Alkan.
10/10 you should enter the Mastermind TV quiz programme choosing tragic deaths of composers as your special subject.  :)
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 10:47:40 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 12, 2017, 08:21:53 AM
Hint: This composer died following quite a risky brain surgery.
This could also, sadly, apply to Gershwin.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 10:48:37 AM
Quote from: North Star on January 18, 2017, 10:45:58 AM
Not quite.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Valentin_Alkan#Death
Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Jo498 on January 18, 2017, 11:02:04 AM
accidental mushroom poisoning?

drowning in a freak boating accident?


And not a composer, but one of my favorites (to defend sleeping in because rising too early in the morning can be lethal): having to rise too early (and in a climate he was not used to). There is a musical connection as the person responsible for these harsh conditions later lived in a warmer country and received the dedication of an historically somewhat important set of musical pieces.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 11:06:46 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 18, 2017, 11:02:04 AM
accidental mushroom poisoning?

Johann Schobert

Quote
And not a composer, but one of my favorites (to defend sleeping in because rising too early in the morning can be lethal): having to rise too early (and in a climate he was not used to). There is a musical connection as the person responsible for these harsh conditions later lived in a warmer country and received the dedication of an historically somewhat important set of musical pieces.

Descartes. Corelli's Violin Sonatas were dedicated to Christine of Sweden.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: KevinP on January 18, 2017, 03:48:05 PM
I was just asking about a half-remembered death. Never imagined this thread would take on a life of its own like this. :-)
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2017, 06:41:42 AM
Quote from: KevinP on January 18, 2017, 03:48:05 PM
I was just asking about a half-remembered death. Never imagined this thread would take on a life of its own like this. :-)
An obvious case of members of the GMG Forum coming to terms with their shadow side.  :blank:
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2017, 06:43:03 AM
Fell into the River Kenmare in Ireland?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mirror Image on January 19, 2017, 06:54:49 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 19, 2017, 06:43:03 AM
Fell into the River Kenmare in Ireland?

E. J. Moeran?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 10:51:13 AM
Who died while composing at his harpsichord?

And --- not a composer and technically speaking not a death: this guy simply vanished without a trace from contemporary records and nobody knows where, when and how he died.

And the other French composer stabbed to death is Jean Gabriel Guillemain.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Jo498 on January 19, 2017, 11:36:55 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 10:51:13 AM
And --- not a composer and technically speaking not a death: this guy simply vanished without a trace from contemporary records and nobody knows where, when and how he died.
This applies to surprisingly many people (not only in times and places from which historical information is sparse anyway), my first guess it Ambrose Bierce who disappeared in Mexico.

Another mystery although it concerns the whole biography is this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Traven#The_mystery_of_B._Traven.27s_biography
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Jo498 on January 19, 2017, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2017, 11:06:46 AM
Johann Schobert

Descartes. Corelli's Violin Sonatas were dedicated to Christine of Sweden.

Yes to both, only it was actually the trio sonatas op.1 (1681) that set the standard for the high/late baroque trio sonata.

The guy who drowned during a pleasure boat tour was Thomas Linley jr., the "English Mozart"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Linley_the_younger
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 19, 2017, 11:36:55 AM
This applies to surprisingly many people, my first guess it Ambrose Bierce who disappeared in Mexico.

I never knew that, thanks for the info.

No, it was not him that I had in mind. Hint: a poet.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Ken B on January 19, 2017, 11:54:56 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 11:44:07 AM
I never knew that, thanks for the info.

No, it was not him that I had in mind. Hint: a poet.
Homer.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: Ken B on January 19, 2017, 11:54:56 AM
Homer.

Fits in the bill, but no.

Supplementary hint: a Frenchman (yet another one  :laugh: ).
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Ken B on January 19, 2017, 12:02:30 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
Fits in the bill, but no.

Supplementary hint: a Frenchman (yet another one  :laugh: ).
For some odd reason I now want to re-read The Song of Roland.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: DaveF on January 19, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on January 18, 2017, 11:02:04 AM
drowning in a freak boating accident?

Might also be Robert Parsons, who drowned in the River Trent at Newark - whether boating or not is not recorded.  My theory is that he was pushed by Byrd - Newark is not far from Lincoln, where Byrd was based, and Parsons' death created a vacancy at the Chapel Royal that was filled by... Byrd.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: Ken B on January 19, 2017, 12:02:30 PM
For some odd reason I now want to re-read The Song of Roland.

Doesn´t help. The guy lived much later.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2017, 01:47:00 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 19, 2017, 06:54:49 AM
E. J. Moeran?

10/10
:)
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: kishnevi on January 19, 2017, 06:09:19 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 19, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
Fits in the bill, but no.

Supplementary hint: a Frenchman (yet another one  :laugh: ).

Sacre blue!

I think I know the individual you mean, but can't remember his name.
The one I'm thinking of lived during the 16th or 17th century, and came close to being hanged at one point because of his association with criminals.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Jo498 on January 19, 2017, 11:24:45 PM
Francois Villon who was a criminal (Brecht (or probably his mistress) translated some of his ballads for use in the Dreigroschenoper and they fit very well) and in fact vanished from the records in 1463. Although in the 15th century I'd call this less unusual than in the 20th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Villon
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 20, 2017, 01:00:33 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on January 19, 2017, 06:09:19 PM
Sacre blue!

I think I know the individual you mean, but can't remember his name.
The one I'm thinking of lived during the 16th or 17th century, and came close to being hanged at one point because of his association with criminals.

Quote from: Jo498 on January 19, 2017, 11:24:45 PM
Francois Villon who was a criminal (Brecht (or probably his mistress) translated some of his ballads for use in the Dreigroschenoper and they fit very well) and in fact vanished from the records in 1463. Although in the 15th century I'd call this less unusual than in the 20th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Villon

Yes, Villon. Well done!
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 12:17:38 AM
Whilst on holiday in Ireland having eaten a box of Turkish Delight which he had intended to take back to England.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Mirror Image on January 21, 2017, 07:00:09 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 12:17:38 AM
Whilst on holiday in Ireland having eaten a box of Turkish Delight which he had intended to take back to England.

This is a difficult one. Could you give another hint?
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 23, 2017, 01:42:01 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 21, 2017, 07:00:09 PM
This is a difficult one. Could you give another hint?

Of course  :)

Felt that Ireland was his spiritual home although born in Streatham in London.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 23, 2017, 01:45:09 PM
New one:

Gassed himself having put the cat out of doors.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 23, 2017, 01:48:13 PM
None of these are as good as Aretino, the Italian writer of the Renaissance period, who allegedly died laughing at an obscene joke.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 23, 2017, 01:54:07 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 23, 2017, 01:48:13 PM
None of these are as good as Aretino, the Italian writer of the Renaissance period, who allegedly died laughing at an obscene joke.

That is nothing compared to Donizetti, who allegedly died after prolonged self-abuse.  :o

The one who died composing at harpsichord: Leonardo Leo.

Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: vandermolen on January 23, 2017, 02:06:56 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 23, 2017, 01:54:07 PM
That is nothing compared to Donizetti, who allegedly died after prolonged self-abuse.  :o


He died by his own hand.

  :o
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Florestan on January 23, 2017, 02:26:23 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 23, 2017, 02:06:56 PM
He died by his own hand.

  :o

Hah, great one!  ;D

I am not sure it is true, though, actually I have a hard time imagining someone dying from that.

New one, quite easy: died from typhoid fever a few months after eating a contaminated sorbet.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Ken B on January 23, 2017, 03:40:44 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 23, 2017, 02:26:23 PM

I am not sure it is true, though, actually I have a hard time imagining someone dying from that.



I can imagine someone trying.
Title: Re: Name that composer death
Post by: Chronochromie on January 23, 2017, 06:31:56 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 23, 2017, 02:26:23 PMNew one, quite easy: died from typhoid fever a few months after eating a contaminated sorbet.

Lekeu.

This guy died of the plague.