GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 01:07:53 AM

Title: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 01:07:53 AM
Tchaikovsky and his teacher Anton Rubinstein were the main composers in Russia in 19 century. I find that it is true and today, but most of Anton's music is unknown
today. For me he is like Vivaldi, that was forgotten for some centuries and now we have an opportunity to rediscover him. I decided to open personal topic of
A.G. Rubinstein with the aim to communicate with the fans of his music, and to share rare recordings between each other.
I have written rather intersting review of his main works in my native language (Russian). Perhaps I will find people who can help me to translate this information for the forum. 
I'm still in proccess because most of his music is not recorded.


(http://c.radikal.ru/c11/1803/8f/6474e31ab63e.png)

And just for newbies, listen to this two remarkable melodies from Anton's music and you will be surprised how this was forgotten:
First clip: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/MAgq/5jxSZDmrm
Second clip: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/FvyX/AhBd2Vb3r
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Biffo on May 12, 2018, 01:58:03 AM
I have to admit I know very little about Rubinstein. For many years the only piece I knew was an orchestral version of one of Kammeniy-ostrov. A few years ago I downloaded a free app onto my tablet and it contained several works by Rubinstein including the complete Kammeniy-ostrov played by Joseph Banowetz; I believe the recording is Russian in origin as some of the metadata is in the Cyrillic alphabet.

I also saved the Ocean Symphony from the app and transferred it to my PC; I still haven't got round to listening to all of it but will do shortly now your posting has prompted me.

Good luck with your research.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 02:15:19 AM
Quote from: Biffo on May 12, 2018, 01:58:03 AM
I have to admit I know very little about Rubinstein. For many years the only piece I knew was an orchestral version of one of Kammeniy-ostrov. A few years ago I downloaded a free app onto my tablet and it contained several works by Rubinstein including the complete Kammeniy-ostrov played by Joseph Banowetz; I believe the recording is Russian in origin as some of the metadata is in the Cyrillic alphabet.

I also saved the Ocean Symphony from the app and transferred it to my PC; I still haven't got round to listening to all of it but will do shortly now your posting has prompted me.

Good luck with your research.
Thank you. Is it alloweded to post here links to full recordings in mp3, like I have made it with clips in the first post? I have some unpublished recordings made from concerts, radio and so on. 
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 12, 2018, 02:42:27 AM
I actually quite like his "Dramatic" symphony. I rather like the brooding,slightly mysterious atmosphere of it's best moments. The fact that it doesn't sound specifically Russian doesn't bother me. I think I'm about the only person in the world who enjoys it,though! ;D I also rather like his "Ocean" symphony. I remember getting the old Turnabout recording,from the local library,and enjoying it. As far as I can make out the recording has never been reissued on a cd;which is a pity. I think his First symphony has got it's good points,too. I used to post on the old,defunct Chandos forum about the these symphonies;hoping I could persuade them to record one or two! I think they were probably bemused;that's if they took any notice at all?! Rubinstein's compositions get such a bad rap (with his opera,The Demon,a notable exception) that they probably thought,"Who's this nutbag who wants us to record Rubinstein symphonies?!" ::) ;D But if labels like Hyperion and Chandos can record symphonies by composers like Raff or Spohr;why not Rubinstein? I'm sure some members here will give me a good reason,though?!! ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/GrlihWx.jpg)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 12, 2018, 02:51:55 AM
The complete cycle of symphonies is available on the Naxos,and Marco Polo labels (secondhand),of course. I just think they would benefit from better performances and sound. Howard Griffiths' Cpo recordings of Spohr symphonies,for example,really turned me into a bit of a fan after those okay,but workmanlike Marco Polo recordings in thin,undernourished sound.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 12, 2018, 02:53:36 AM
Rubinstein is a composer I always want to like more than I do after listening to a work by him.  On paper they should be great; big boned Romantic, sweeping melodies, passionate climaxes.  What I hear seems so much less exciting than that.  I've tried the complete 7 movement version of the Ocean Symphony as well as the oddly curtailed 4 movement version - & I'm not sure I've ever heard as undramatic a work as the Dramatic Symphony!

But you are right - perhaps a well-engineered, played to the hilt recording would drop the veil from my ears!
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 03:00:09 AM
I would like to say, Ocean symphony is not the best way to get acquainted with Rubinstein. It is his first big composition, that he wrote when he was young
- 22 years old. It's the same if you begin to study Beethoven and choose for that 1st Symphony. If you like symphonies try to listen his 5th Symphony it is named "Russian". It's a masterpiece.
You can listen it here (this recording dates to 1987), conductor Valentin Zverev, Large symphony orchestra of Central Radio and TV, Russia from LP.

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/69AW/ZwxRW6h4n
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: vandermolen on May 12, 2018, 03:05:39 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 12, 2018, 03:00:09 AM
I would like to say, Ocean symphony is not the best way to get acquainted with Rubinstein. It is his first big composition, that he wrote when he was young
- 22 years old. It's the same if you begin to study Beethoven and choose for that 1st Symphony. If you like symphonies try to listen his 5th Symphony it is named "Russian". It's a masterpiece.

I only know the 'Ocean' Symphony and didn't like it very much - so this advice is interesting and I'll look out for Symphony 5.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 03:10:14 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 12, 2018, 03:05:39 AM
I only know the 'Ocean' Symphony and didn't like it very much - so this advice is interesting and I'll look out for Symphony 5.
Hi, I have added great recording of it in the previous post. I think it's legal because this recording is also can be downloaded from memorial site of this musician (V.Zverev - in Russia he is known mostly as flutist).
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: zamyrabyrd on May 12, 2018, 03:23:38 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 12, 2018, 01:07:53 AM
Tchaikovsky and his teacher Anton Rubinstein were the main composers in Russia in 19 century. I find that it is true and today, but most of Anton's music is unknown today.

Hi Dima, I see you are new here, so welcome. It is interesting to have someone from Russia who can report on the music scene there.
I wanted to refer to your comment about Tchaikovsky and Anton Rubinstein. Is it really true that they were regarded more than Glazunov, Glinka, Cui, Borodin, Moussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Balakirev, in what I presume is the late 19th century?
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: vandermolen on May 12, 2018, 03:42:48 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 12, 2018, 03:10:14 AM
Hi, I have added great recording of it in the previous post. I think it's legal because this recording is also can be downloaded from memorial site of this musician (V.Zverev - in Russia he is known mostly as flutist).
Many thanks!
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Florestan on May 12, 2018, 03:43:43 AM
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on May 12, 2018, 03:23:38 AM
Is it really true that they were regarded more than Glazunov, Glinka, Cui, Borodin, Moussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Balakirev, in what I presume is the late 19th century?

I think the answer depends on where you'd have asked this question back then: in Moscow or in Saint-Petersburg. Yet I'm sure Glinka was venerated in both locations. 
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 12, 2018, 04:10:23 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 12, 2018, 03:00:09 AM
If you like symphonies try to listen his 5th Symphony it is named "Russian". It's a masterpiece.

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/69AW/ZwxRW6h4n

Thankyou Dima for the link and the recommendation - greatly appreciated.  I will enjoy listening to this!
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 04:25:50 AM
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on May 12, 2018, 03:23:38 AM
Hi Dima, I see you are new here, so welcome. It is interesting to have someone from Russia who can report on the music scene there.
I wanted to refer to your comment about Tchaikovsky and Anton Rubinstein. Is it really true that they were regarded more than Glazunov, Glinka, Cui, Borodin, Moussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Balakirev, in what I presume is the late 19th century?
I have not mentioned the name of Glinka as a God of Russian music and for most russians. The second one after Glinka in the development of russian music was Anton Rubinstein. Tchaikovsky (composer number one in the world in my view) was not only a student of Rubinstein he was stylistically the follower of Rubinstein. Every big work of Rubinstein infuenced Tchaikovsky music. Anton Rubinstein was a jew, it was a shame to be jew in Russia in these time but Rubinstein had good communications with Tsar family,  for these reasons after Bolshevik revolution in 1917 everything that was devoted to him was neglected. It was ruined memorial on his grave, his house was not saved. The notes does not published and it was published only bad reviews on his compositions so on. And after everybody succesfully forgot about him, the first Russian conservatory (in Sanct-Petersburg) that Rubinstein opened on own money was named not after Anton Rubinstein, but after Rimsky-Korsakov.
Situation does not change till our time but I hope it will be changed one day because (question you ask me) he really one of the great composers.

You can see the photo of memorial on the grave of Rubinstein how it was and today. 
(http://i013.radikal.ru/1710/c0/da6fcf8ce3b1.png)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: zamyrabyrd on May 12, 2018, 04:38:23 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 12, 2018, 04:25:50 AM
I have not mentioned the name of Glinka as a God of Russian music and for most russians. The second one after Glinka in the development of russian music was Anton Rubinstein. Tchaikovsky (composer number one in the world in my view) was not only a student of Rubinstein he was stylistically the follower of Rubinstein. Every big work of Rubinstein infuenced Tchaikovsky music. Anton Rubinstein was a jew, it was a shame to be jew in Russia in these time and also Rubinstein had good communications with Tsar family,  that's why after Bolshevik revolution in 1917 everything that was devoted to him was neglected. It was ruined memorial on his grave, his house was not saved. The notes does not published and it was published only bad reviews on his compositions so on. And after everybody succesfully forgot about him the first Russian conservatory (in Sanct-Petersburg) that Rubinstein opened on own money was named not after Anton Rubinstein, but after Rimsky-Korsakov.
Situation does not change till our time but I hope it will be changed one day because he (question you ask me) just one of the great composers.

Thanks (spaseebo), Dima!
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Florestan on May 12, 2018, 04:48:38 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 12, 2018, 04:25:50 AM
Anton Rubinstein was a jew, it was a shame to be jew in Russia in these time and also Rubinstein had good communications with Tsar family

Sorry, but this is rather incongruous. It was shameful to be a Jew, yet somehow a Jew (Rubinstein) was well-connected to no less than the Tsar's family... What am I missing here?
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 12, 2018, 04:49:45 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 12, 2018, 02:53:36 AM
Rubinstein is a composer I always want to like more than I do after listening to a work by him.  On paper they should be great; big boned Romantic, sweeping melodies, passionate climaxes.  What I hear seems so much less exciting than that.  I've tried the complete 7 movement version of the Ocean Symphony as well as the oddly curtailed 4 movement version - & I'm not sure I've ever heard as undramatic a work as the Dramatic Symphony!

But you are right - perhaps a well-engineered, played to the hilt recording would drop the veil from my ears!
I think it has been said,more than once,that calling it the "Dramatic" was a mistake on Rubinstein's part. According to the booklet with my Russian Disc cd,it caused a good deal of debate at the time. Rubinstein's insistence on remaining "tight lipped",didn't help!
Maybe he would have been better of not giving it a name? Anyone who listen's to it is obviously predisposed to expect something dramatic. Even if it's well orchestrated and moderately melodious they are going to be disappointed in some way. Of course,maybe you just think it is dull? But maybe it raises expectations a little too much?  I have heard all six symphonies,though;and I prefer No's 4,2 & 1 to No 5 (in that order)the latter, supposedly,sounding more specifically Russian (as is,No 6),which,it does. Although,not as brazenly Russian as Borodin or Tchaikovsky,of course!  Incidentally,I just had a look at some reviews of these symphonies on the internet and some of the responses I found were less negative than I expected. Some quite positive. This one (see below) very enthusiastic indeed!! (Tchaikovsky,a "minor" composer,though?!! He's not one of my favourite composers,but.....................?!!! ???)  Fellow critic,Nick Barnard evidently disagrees! ;D I would, personally,welcome a really top notch cycle from Cpo,or some such label,though! Although,I don't know if it would change my opinion of some of them? The recording quality on those Marco Polo and Russian Discs really could be improved upon;and lush sweeping strings are a "must" in repertoire of this kind,imho!

Rave review! :)  http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Apr13/Rubinstein_sy4_DRD2012.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Apr13/Rubinstein_sy4_DRD2012.htm)

Really (very!) bad review! ??? :( ;D   http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Oct12/Rubinstein_dramatic_DRD2012.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Oct12/Rubinstein_dramatic_DRD2012.htm)

Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 05:07:43 AM
Quote from: Florestan on May 12, 2018, 04:48:38 AM
Sorry, but this is rather incongruous. It was shameful to be a Jew, yet somehow a Jew (Rubinstein) was well-connected to no less than the Tsar's family... What am I missing here?
You think logical, but there is russian tradition: when Jews (and not also Jews) are needed - they are rewarded, and when they do not needed - they can be smashed.
It's interesting but Tchaikovsky even composed little composition for chor in owner of Rubinstein with words: "Anton you are not an alien".
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Biffo on May 12, 2018, 05:28:33 AM
There is a fair amount of Rubinstein available on Spotify though as is sometimes the case it doesn't all show up immediately and you have click on the various albums for other stuff to appear. There is a performance of Symphony No 5 from the Slovak State Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Barry Kolman - enjoyable though I don't have anything to compare it with.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Florestan on May 12, 2018, 05:29:31 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 12, 2018, 05:07:43 AM
You think logical, but there is russian tradition: when Jews (and not also Jews) are needed - they are rewarded, and when they do not needed - they can be smashed.

:laugh:  :laugh: :laugh:

Well, I certainly see where you're coming from --- as a Romanian I know only too well how good are Russians at smashing others...  ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist --- nothing personal at all.  0:) (Culturally speaking, I am a huge Rusophile, and not only musically).
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Quote from: Biffo on May 12, 2018, 05:28:33 AM
There is a fair amount of Rubinstein available on Spotify though as is sometimes the case it doesn't all show up immediately and you have click on the various albums for other stuff to appear. There is a performance of Symphony No 5 from the Slovak State Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Barry Kolman - enjoyable though I don't have anything to compare it with.
Barry Kolman peformed well the slow 3d part of the symphony.
For other parts on spotify there is another good rendition of 5th Symphony Rubinstein op.107 (George Enescu Philharmonic, Andreescu). Here is the link (I don't know if it works):
https://open.spotify.com/album/5nQANNsxcJBt7Qmf3XofIO

But I still recommend rendition of Valentin Zverev.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 12, 2018, 06:40:53 AM
Quote from: Florestan on May 12, 2018, 05:29:31 AM
:laugh:  :laugh: :laugh:

Well, I certainly see where you're coming from --- as a Romanian I know only too well how good are Russians at smashing others...  ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist --- nothing personal at all.  0:) (Culturally speaking, I am a huge Rusophile, and not only musically).
Florestan, you are very correct, I'm also patriot of russian music (it's not a rule in our country).  And in my post about aliens and "russian tradition" it should be read - very bad russian traditon.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 12, 2018, 10:31:46 AM
I can't believe there was not a Rubinstein thread so far. He wrote some good stuff. If you don't feel too impressed by his orchestral works, try the chamber ones. There are some gems that can delight you.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: kyjo on May 14, 2018, 07:51:08 PM
I don't know much by Rubinstein, so far I've enjoyed his Fantaisie for piano and orchestra, Cello Sonata no. 1, and String Quartet no. 1 quite a bit.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 15, 2018, 02:53:55 AM
Well here's someone who does enjoy Rubinstein's orchestral music!!! :o ;D Or,at least,some of it. I listened to his Second (Ocean) and Fourth (Dramatic) symphonies (on Russian Disc) and enjoyed what I heard. The "Ocean" symphony went down particularly well. I like the tune in the first movement,and remember it from that old Vox Turnabout library Lp I posted about. The movement that follows,very graphically,portraying the movement of the sea. The sound quality seemed superior to the recording of the "Dramatic". I would love to hear these two symphonies with a really good orchestra and top notch,state of the art sound. Incidentally,Respighi's Belkis Queen of Sheba and Metamorphoseon got switched off in favour of the "Ocean" Symphony. I felt I needed something more restful. It was late at night and Rubinstein seemed to fit the bill!
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 15, 2018, 04:25:11 AM
I didn't realise this was a 2 cd set! I've got to listen  through quite allot of other pieces by Rubinstein before I get to the "Ocean" Symphony,though! Not keen on Cello Concertos generally;which shows my level of intellect. The Wuppertal/Hanson team recorded music by Felix Draeseke,though;and they were very good (as was the sound quality!). I wish they'd record the "Dramatic". Come on,you Wuppertal's!! ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/CqpTFgz.jpg)    (https://i.imgur.com/4AJl4W8.jpg)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: cilgwyn on May 15, 2018, 04:28:53 AM
Aharr! It's a two for the price of one reissue (like Iceland?!!)!! :) I may investigate at some point?!! Nice painting of him on the front,incidentally. He looks erm,quite formidable! ??? ;D
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 25, 2018, 09:48:28 AM
I think it may be interesting in UK to know relationship between music of Elgar and Rubinstein.
First of all Rubinstein has his own cycle of 24 secret portrets (as Enigma variations) of people but for piano (Kamenniy-Ostrov, Op. 10).
Secondly Nimrod is one of heroes of his work "The Tower of Babel" op.80.
But the main thing that music of Rubinstein influinced Elgar
(Elgar noticed in his diaries that he listened concert with Second symphony and opera The Maccabees of Rubinstein,
but today there is no even recording of that opera, that was in 19th known as one of his main achievments).
Next fragments sounds stylistical close in my view.
Fragment of Rubinstein's 4 symphony 3 part and Nimrod of Elgar: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/5PQs/yCxMQptqD
And here fragment from Rubinstein's 2 symphony 2 part and also Nimrod: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/LSpa/gGhsDjom1
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on June 09, 2018, 01:34:03 PM
Look on amazing playing the 3rd part of 4th piano conceto of A. Runinstein by Pavel Raikerus:
https://youtu.be/FUheiBD2VtM?t=5997
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: springrite on June 09, 2018, 06:50:27 PM
While acknowledging that some people like it, I have to say that I can't stand his orchestration.

However,

I love his Viola Sonata, Cello Sonatas and much of his piano music. They speak to me perfectly, much like Medtner.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Maestro267 on June 10, 2018, 01:23:27 AM
Quote from: Dima on May 25, 2018, 09:48:28 AM
Secondly Nimrod is one of heroes of his work "The Tower of Babel" op.80.

This is a rather tenuous link really. Nimrod is the main character in the Biblical tale of the Tower of Babel, called a mighty hunter. Elgar called his ninth Variation Nimrod because it was dedicated to Augustus Jaeger, "Jaeger" meaning "hunter" in German.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on June 10, 2018, 02:27:47 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on June 10, 2018, 01:23:27 AM
This is a rather tenuous link really. Nimrod is the main character in the Biblical tale of the Tower of Babel, called a mighty hunter. Elgar called his ninth Variation Nimrod because it was dedicated to Augustus Jaeger, "Jaeger" meaning "hunter" in German.
Thank you very much for information. And do you find close the music samples?
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on June 10, 2018, 01:41:30 PM
Quote from: springrite on June 09, 2018, 06:50:27 PM
While acknowledging that some people like it, I have to say that I can't stand his orchestration.
You can disagree with me but symphonic poem "Don Quixote" of A.Rubinstein is brilliantly orchestrated piece.
Thanks to the member of the site unsungcomposers.com we can listen it in very good recording (conductor Horst Neumann): https://cloud.mail.ru/public/3wZq/DLrKjKEsg
Tchaikovsky made a piano transcription for 4 hands of this work.
(http://b.radikal.ru/b39/1805/2a/6f3dbfe336fb.png)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Hattoff on June 10, 2018, 11:54:00 PM
Thank you very much for "Don Quixote". I have been a fan of Rubinstein for some time but had not heard this piece before. I also find it remarkable that he is not better known in the west, he was a very melodic composer.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on November 01, 2018, 02:20:00 AM
When I first heard the next composition I thought it is in style of Chopin but sounds very modern like music of 20th century.
It turned out Anton Rubinstein's composition of 1853 - his slow part from the 3rd piano concerto. From this time I love his music.
You can listen this part here: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/8wsH/YSkfkrKdo

As a fan of Rubinstein's music, I was pleased to know about the release of his unknown opera Moses on CD. The suite of the best moments from it sounds beautiful:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/GGY4/EmT2bGPmV

Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Hattoff on November 02, 2018, 01:52:31 AM
I have listened to Moses several times now, it is a great opera with wonderful melodies and some very powerful moments.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on November 05, 2018, 01:10:46 PM
Quote from: Hattoff on November 02, 2018, 01:52:31 AM
I have listened to Moses several times now, it is a great opera with wonderful melodies and some very powerful moments.
And have you already listened to new recording of Caprice russe, Op. 102 for piano and orchestra? As you may know this composition is dedicated to the future Prokofiev's piano teacher - Anna Esipova. And it has been never played so virtuously in my view as on this new recording with Neeme Jarvi and Anna Shelest.

(http://d.radikal.ru/d07/1809/53/ea27db4bb9e9.jpg)

You can listen it here: https://www.deezer.com/en/album/65011032
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on November 19, 2018, 02:46:14 AM
This is my video with an overview of several themes of the 1st piano concerto of Anton Rubinstein op.25, 1850 (don't forget to switch on english subtitles):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cTtjtckof8

And here you can listen very rare fist recording of this concerto made in 1979. It is zip archive with mp4.
Michael Fardink (piano), The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, conductor Paul Freeman: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/LNVB/sk21siqi8
(press "Скачать" if you want to download the music).

P.S. This concerto has the largest amount of melodies of all piano concertos I know.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: vandermolen on November 19, 2018, 04:14:03 AM
Quote from: Dima on November 19, 2018, 02:46:14 AM
This is my video with an overview of several themes of the 1st piano concerto of Anton Rubinstein op.25, 1850 (with english subtitles):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cTtjtckof8

And here you can listen very rare fist recording of this concerto made in 1979. It is zip archive with mp4.
Michael Fardink (piano), The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, conductor Paul Freeman: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/LNVB/sk21siqi8
(press "Скачать" if you want to download the music).

P.S. This concerto has the largest amount of melodies of all piano concertos I know.
The video is well worth watching.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Hattoff on November 19, 2018, 11:51:14 PM
Thanks for that, I didn't have the 1st concerto. I shall listen with pleasure. It is remarkably good sound for an LP of that vintage.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on November 30, 2018, 09:39:05 AM
The last recording of Caprice russe for piano and orchestra of Anton
Rubinshtein with with Neeme Jarvi and Anna Shelest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0UiHgUHn3k
It's very russian and beautiful composition (and some fragments Rachmaninov took to his concertos). This composition has very
modern orchestration and it's fantastic sounds reminds me Totentanz of Liszt.

Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Hattoff on December 01, 2018, 01:58:39 AM
Very nice. I've not heard this before. Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Irons on March 11, 2019, 08:06:27 AM
I know of Anton Rubinstein through his chamber works which are okay but nothing special, although I will revisit. He seems to be an unfashionable composer. Lauded in his own day but largely forgotten. I was not expecting too much from his 5th Symphony "The Russian" but as events turned out it was of greater interest then I thought. A late recording (1988) is one of the cleanest Melodiya LPs I have heard with Valentin Zverev conducting USSR TV & Radio SO. The 5th is a curates egg of a symphony. His symphonies are often (too often) accused of not going anywhere, I don't know about that, but the same could be said about Bax et al. The first movement I thought arresting with typically Russian themes. But the best bit by far is the Allegro non troppo second movement. If nothing else do listen to this movement as it is a delight. Unfortunately from there on in it is downhill, the third movement is all right but I rapidly lost interest during the finale - all ten minutes of it. Not a great symphony which is flawed but I will definitely listen again which is a recommendation of sorts.
(https://i.imgur.com/qIaAEZA.jpg)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 11, 2019, 08:08:04 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 11, 2019, 08:06:27 AMI know of Anton Rubinstein through his chamber works which are okay but nothing special, although I will revisit. He seems to be an unfashionable composer. Lauded in his own day but largely forgotten. I was not expecting too much from his 5th Symphony "The Russian" but as events turned out it was of greater interest then I thought. A late recording (1988) is one of the cleanest Melodiya LPs I have heard with Valentin Zverev conducting USSR TV & Radio SO. The 5th is a curates egg of a symphony. His symphonies are often (too often) accused of not going anywhere, I don't know about that, but the same could be said about Bax et al. The first movement I thought arresting with typically Russian themes. But the best bit by far is the Allegro non troppo second movement. If nothing else do listen to this movement as it is a delight. Unfortunately from there on in it is downhill, the third movement is all right but I rapidly lost interest during the finale - all ten minutes of it. Not a great symphony which is flawed but I will definitely listen again which is a recommendation of sorts.

(https://i.imgur.com/qIaAEZA.jpg)

Yet there's someone out there that probably worships the composer. Thank goodness I've never met any. ;)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Irons on March 11, 2019, 08:22:44 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2019, 08:08:04 AM
Yet there's someone out there that probably worships the composer. Thank goodness I've never met any. ;)

Come on! He is not that bad.

Second movement here. Not Tchaikovsky but made me smile. :)  https://youtu.be/eEdh7McTmyY
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 11, 2019, 08:24:52 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 11, 2019, 08:22:44 AM
Come on! He is not that bad.

Second movement here. Not Tchaikovsky but made me smile. :)  https://youtu.be/eEdh7McTmyY

I'm not going to say anything else that's derogatory. My point has been made. :)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Irons on March 11, 2019, 08:33:47 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2019, 08:24:52 AM
I'm not going to say anything else that's derogatory. My point has been made. :)

And you are more then entitled to make it - that what forums are for are they not?
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 11, 2019, 08:47:10 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 11, 2019, 08:33:47 AM
And you are more then entitled to make it - that what forums are for are they not?

This is true, but I probably shouldn't even have said anything, but my point, more or less, is that every lesser-known composer has some dedicated fan somewhere in the world.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 11, 2019, 11:55:06 AM
It's a pity that mostly critics of Rubinstein write here. I would like to find Rubinstein's fans...
:(
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 11, 2019, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: Dima on March 11, 2019, 11:55:06 AM
It's a pity that mostly critics of Rubinstein write here. I would like to find Rubinstein's fans...
:(

I think we found a Rubinstein fan! :) You see, I told you, Irons, that they're out there somewhere. ;)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2019, 01:14:44 AM
Quote from: Dima on March 11, 2019, 11:55:06 AM
It's a pity that mostly critics of Rubinstein write here. I would like to find Rubinstein's fans...
:(

I'm always suspicious when a composer or conductor is universally derided especially when the same critique is repeated over and over again. Not posters here who are a knowledgeable lot, but music critics with a herd mentality repeat the same old stuff - and get paid for it. "Klemperer is a plodder" "Suisse Romande is a poor orchestra" etc. The same with Rubinstein "He doesn't develop  themes". All this may have an element of truth but believe me I have heard my fair share of second-rate Russian music and Rubinstein's 5th is not that.

I would be delighted to share a pint with Mirror Image even if he would not be over the moon in meeting me. ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 12, 2019, 04:00:49 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 11, 2019, 08:06:27 AM
I know of Anton Rubinstein through his chamber works which are okay but nothing special, although I will revisit. He seems to be an unfashionable composer. Lauded in his own day but largely forgotten. I was not expecting too much from his 5th Symphony "The Russian" but as events turned out it was of greater interest then I thought. A late recording (1988) is one of the cleanest Melodiya LPs I have heard with Valentin Zverev conducting USSR TV & Radio SO. The 5th is a curates egg of a symphony. His symphonies are often (too often) accused of not going anywhere, I don't know about that, but the same could be said about Bax et al. The first movement I thought arresting with typically Russian themes. But the best bit by far is the Allegro non troppo second movement. If nothing else do listen to this movement as it is a delight. Unfortunately from there on in it is downhill, the third movement is all right but I rapidly lost interest during the finale - all ten minutes of it. Not a great symphony which is flawed but I will definitely listen again which is a recommendation of sorts.
The melodic of Rubinstein is so close to the style of pop music, for example Beatles. Try to listen to the 3 part of the 5th symphony with Barry Kolman on https://open.spotify.com. In this fragment you can listen song "Yesterday" of Beatles, and then the fragment of the 5th symphony 3 part:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/CcHv/k7ugHzMR9

The 4th movement is the most powerful, it is based on russian folklore. Try to listen this part with conductor Horia Andreescu also on spotify (on youtube clip is very bad quality of sound).

The second part that you mentioned is based on tatarian folklore and then from the middle appears  russian style theme. It may be symbolic because russians conquered tatars and now russians and tatars live together peacefully.

The first part of the symphony begins with same theme that opens opera Boris Godunov of Mussorgsky. It can be also folklore origin, may be not.
This "Russian" symphony is devoted to great women - Grand Duchess Elena Pavlovna. At the time when the symphony was written she have already died, but Rubinstein was obliged to her because she gave money on opening first conservatory of Russia in Saint-Petersburg. Rubinstein become the founder and the first director of conservatory. Thanks to him we know such names as Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev and Shostakovich who ended this conservatory. In Soviet times Rubinstein was criticized much and this conservatory was named after Rimskiy-Korsakov.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 12, 2019, 06:27:27 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 12, 2019, 01:14:44 AM
I'm always suspicious when a composer or conductor is universally derided especially when the same critique is repeated over and over again. Not posters here who are a knowledgeable lot, but music critics with a herd mentality repeat the same old stuff - and get paid for it. "Klemperer is a plodder" "Suisse Romande is a poor orchestra" etc. The same with Rubinstein "He doesn't develop  themes". All this may have an element of truth but believe me I have heard my fair share of second-rate Russian music and Rubinstein's 5th is not that.

I remember reading Rubinstein told Tchaikovsky that his Piano Concerto No 1 was dreck, so he gets points for that in my book. :)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Mirror Image on March 12, 2019, 06:30:46 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 12, 2019, 01:14:44 AMI would be delighted to share a pint with Mirror Image even if he would not be over the moon in meeting me. ;D  ;)

I don't drink alcohol, but would certainly be great meeting anyone who loves this music as much as I do.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 12, 2019, 07:49:54 AM
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 12, 2019, 06:27:27 AM
I remember reading Rubinstein told Tchaikovsky that his Piano Concerto No 1 was dreck, so he gets points for that in my book. :)
It was not Anton Rubinstein... That was Anton's brother - Nikolay Rubinstein (a friend of Tchaikovsky). Tchaikovsky planned to devote his 1st concerto to Nikolay, but after his words he refused and devoted it to Hans von Bulow. But after the death of Nikolay Rubinstein, Tchaikovsky decided to devote his 2nd piano concerto to him. Anton Rubinstein conducted the premiere of 2nd concerto of Tchaikovsky that was devoted to his younger brother.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 12, 2019, 07:50:57 AM
Quote from: Dima on March 12, 2019, 07:49:54 AM
It was not Anton Rubinstein... That was Anton's brother - Nikolay Rubinstein (a friend of Tchaikovsky). Tchaikovsky planned to devote his 1st concerto to Nikolay, but after his words he refused and devoted it to Hans von Bulow. But after the death of Nikolay Rubinstein, Tchaikovsky decided to devote his 2nd concerto to him. Anton Rubinstein conducted the premiere of 2nd concerto that was devoted to his younger brother.

[skulks away in shame]

:)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2019, 07:57:01 AM
Quote from: Dima on March 12, 2019, 04:00:49 AM
The melodic of Rubinstein is so close to the style of pop music, for example Beatles. Try to listen to the 3 part of the 5th symphony with Barry Kolman on https://open.spotify.com. In this fragment you can listen song "Yesterday" of Beatles, and then the fragment of the 5th symphony 3 part:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/CcHv/k7ugHzMR9

The 4th movement is the most powerful, it is based on russian folk. Try to listen this part with conductor Horia Andreescu also on spotify (on youtube clip is very bad quality of sound).

The second part that you mentioned is based on tatarian folk and then from the middle appears  russian style theme. It may be symbolic because russians conquered tatars and now russians and tatars live together peacefully.

The first part of the symphony begins with same theme that opens opera Boris Godunov of Mussorgsky. It can be also folk origin, may be not.
This "Russian" symphony is devoted to great women - Grand Duchess Elena Pavlovna. At the time when the symphony was written she have already died, but Rubinstein was obliged to her because she gave money on opening first conservatory of Russia in Saint-Petersburg. Rubinstein become the founder and the first director of conservatory. Thanks to him we know such names as Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev and Shostakovich who ended this conservatory. In Soviet times Rubinstein was criticized much and this conservatory was named after Rimskiy-Korkasov.

Is that right that one Rubinstein brother opened the Saint-Petersburg conservatory and the other the Moscow conservatory?
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Irons on March 12, 2019, 08:03:07 AM
Quote from: Dima on March 12, 2019, 07:49:54 AM
It was not Anton Rubinstein... That was Anton's brother - Nikolay Rubinstein (a friend of Tchaikovsky). Tchaikovsky planned to devote his 1st concerto to Nikolay, but after his words he refused and devoted it to Hans von Bulow. But after the death of Nikolay Rubinstein, Tchaikovsky decided to devote his 2nd piano concerto to him. Anton Rubinstein conducted the premiere of 2nd concerto of Tchaikovsky that was devoted to his younger brother.

Who Tchaikovsky dedicated his great Piano Trio too. One of his best works IMO.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 12, 2019, 08:08:45 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 12, 2019, 07:57:01 AM
Is that right that one Rubinstein brother opened the Saint-Petersburg conservatory and the other the Moscow conservatory?
Anton Rubinstein himself opened Saint-Petersburg conservatory it was the first professional music school in Russia  (Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich ended this conservatory) - now Saint-Petersburg conservatory is named after Rimskiy-Korsakov.
Anton's younger brother Nikolay Rubinstein also a famous musician (pianist and conductor, he wrote only several pieces) opened Moscow conservatory (Rachmaninov, Scriabin ended it) - now Moscow conservatory is named after Tchaikovsky. Brothers Rubinstein make very much for developing music in Russia. If you want to understand the roots of russian music - Anton Rubinstein is the way for that.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 12, 2019, 08:24:58 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 12, 2019, 08:03:07 AM
Who Tchaikovsky dedicated his great Piano Trio too. One of his best works IMO.
Tchaikovsky wrote Trio and Taneev wrote Requiem (in memory of Nikolay Rubinstein) it is his cantata "John of Damascus".
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Irons on March 13, 2019, 12:49:07 AM
Quote from: Dima on March 12, 2019, 08:24:58 AM
Tchaikovsky wrote Trio and Taneev wrote Requiem (in memory of Nikolay Rubinstein) it is his cantata "John of Damascus".

Listened to the Tchaikovsky Trio "In Memory of a Great Artist" last night. I own two recordings Suk/Chuchro/Panenka and Zhukov with the Feigin brothers. I chose the Suk recording for this massive work for small forces. To reprise the opening theme in the coda of the finale is so often done that it is a cliché but somehow Tchaikovsky makes it a stroke of genius.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 28, 2019, 05:00:20 AM
Unfortunately, the recordings of symphonic poem "Ivan the Terrible" of A.Rubinstein are made in tempos that usually used for learning composition.
I don't know if it will appear the right peformance with understanding of the stylistics of the author and the image of Tsar charachter, that is why I
I consider that it is important to present my version of this symphonic poem in a way it should sound.

I changed the tempos and it radically changed the impression. You can hear it by yourself.
Symphonic poem "Ivan the Terrible" op.79, 1869 (in russian "Ivan Grozny") of Anton Rubinstein here:
(press "Скачать" on page to Download)

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/N4Sp/wkiQVi2ZF

(http://a.radikal.ru/a18/1901/4d/bcfea4ab3d94.jpg)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on April 13, 2019, 10:15:56 AM
There are some compositions that are played in the way that I could ignore and miss them out.
But since these works belong to one of my favorites composer - Anton Rubinstein, I can not be indifferent to what is produced.

These time, I suggest you to get acquainted with the recording of Anton Rubinstein's Violin concerto in my version of tempos and sounding.
I think the change of tempos made it sound as if it have been played by a virtuoso and is among the best violin concertos in genre.
Download link: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/XwVw/2S9TCy71o 
(press "Скачать" to download zip archive, flac format inside).

Anton Rubinstein wrote this concerto in 1857 and dedicated it to Henryk Wieniawski.
Would be glad to know yours impressions about this concerto after listening.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Florestan on April 13, 2019, 10:37:13 AM
Are you familiar with this?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71u4sKDA9ML._SY355_.jpg)

I find it very bad --- I mean, playing Romantic piano music almost without any dynamic or tempo variation, and with no rubato whatsoever? That's like smelling a rose through a gas mask.  ;D
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on April 13, 2019, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 13, 2019, 10:37:13 AM
Are you familiar with this?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71u4sKDA9ML._SY355_.jpg)

I find it very bad --- I mean, playing Romantic piano music almost without any dynamic or tempo variation, and with no rubato whatsoever? That's like smelling a rose through a gas mask.  ;D
Banowetz try to do something as he can, you know that none beside him recorded this music.
I prefer if it were big artists, I think the time of Rubinstein will come one day.
Rubinstein is a very big composer. Have you listened the violin concerto from my link?
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 25, 2019, 06:29:23 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/4011790422121.jpg?1491897426)

I think the strength of this composer lies on his chamber music, and the Octet for piano, strings and winds in D minor is a clear proof of it. For fans of well-crafted romantic music this is a must hear (Andrei, are you there?  :D ). It was originally intended as a piano concerto, but it was reworked as this octet. One does notice the prominent piano part it has. I was very impressed by the quality of this piece, a kind of hidden gem (I think this is its only recording), each movement is really nice, but I was more fond of the inner movements. It's a lovely piece, very recommended for you all.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: kyjo on May 27, 2019, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 25, 2019, 06:29:23 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/4011790422121.jpg?1491897426)

I think the strength of this composer lies on his chamber music, and the Octet for piano, strings and winds in D minor is a clear proof of it. For fans of well-crafted romantic music this is a must hear (Andrei, are you there?  :D ). It was originally intended as a piano concerto, but it was reworked as this octet. One does notice the prominent piano part it has. I was very impressed by the quality of this piece, a kind of hidden gem (I think this is its only recording), each movement is really nice, but I was more fond of the inner movements. It's a lovely piece, very recommended for you all.

Thanks for the recommendation, Cesar!  I'm not too familiar with Rubinstein's music, but out of what I've heard, I very much enjoyed his generously melodic 1st Cello Sonata, which has been recorded by Steven Isserlis and Stephen Hough, of all people!

[asin]B000003FYJ[/asin]
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Florestan on June 06, 2019, 06:29:56 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 25, 2019, 06:29:23 PM
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/4011790422121.jpg?1491897426)

I think the strength of this composer lies on his chamber music, and the Octet for piano, strings and winds in D minor is a clear proof of it. For fans of well-crafted romantic music this is a must hear (Andrei, are you there?  :D ).

Duly noted, thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on August 25, 2019, 09:02:24 AM
The 3 symphony (1855) of Anton Rubinstein has never been recorded in Russia/Soviet as many other his works.
I decided to make a 3 minutes videoclip with this great music using english film Anna Karenina: https://vimeo.com/355829017
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on August 29, 2019, 07:03:19 AM
One more videoclip on music of Anton Rubinstein using scenes from film War and Peace (1967):
https://vimeo.com/356518108
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 29, 2020, 03:06:21 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 25, 2019, 06:29:23 PM

I think the strength of this composer lies on his chamber music, and the Octet for piano, strings and winds in D minor is a clear proof of it. For fans of well-crafted romantic music this is a must hear (Andrei, are you there?  :D ). It was originally intended as a piano concerto, but it was reworked as this octet. One does notice the prominent piano part it has. I was very impressed by the quality of this piece, a kind of hidden gem (I think this is its only recording), each movement is really nice, but I was more fond of the inner movements. It's a lovely piece, very recommended for you all.


New fantastic recording of Octet op.9 of Anton Rubinstein from Mariinsky Theatre (24.03.2019): https://youtu.be/vbhAw6_rk0U
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on March 29, 2020, 12:19:45 PM
Quote from: Dima on March 29, 2020, 03:06:21 AM
New fantastic recording of Octet op.9 of Anton Rubinstein from Mariinsky Theatre (24.03.2019): https://youtu.be/vbhAw6_rk0U

Good to know. The Octet has meant a lot of fun to me.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on April 16, 2020, 11:59:59 AM
Greatly staged opera "Demon" with english subtitles, conductor Leon Botstein.
Must see. Link: https://vimeo.com/407361193
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 22, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ztCyZIGHx34/XKKz3zDzCMI/AAAAAAAACdk/xIs17igBUjkAY7nY7jbI0nHBu8akuwz1gCLcBGAs/s1600/R.SON.L.H.JPG)

I've discovered these sonatas on the last days and I have to say they're impressive, committed pieces with very nice melodies, craft and bravura, showing how an expert composer for piano Rubinstein was, or at least showing when he was very inspired. The first and fourth sonatas made the strongest impression on me, the first one because of its great tunes and the latter because of its symphonic scope, a really dense and imposing work.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on September 23, 2020, 03:05:59 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 22, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
I've discovered these sonatas on the last days and I have to say they're impressive, committed pieces with very nice melodies, craft and bravura, showing how an expert composer for piano Rubinstein was, or at least showing when he was very inspired. The first and fourth sonatas made the strongest impression on me, the first one because of its great tunes and the latter because of its symphonic scope, a really dense and imposing work.
In my view they are on same level as Schumann, Sсhubert or Beethoven sonatas when played as well as they should (I mean they should be played by greater artists).
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 23, 2020, 11:44:02 AM
Quote from: Dima on September 23, 2020, 03:05:59 AM
In my view they are on same level as Schumann, Sсhubert or Beethoven sonatas when played as well as they should (I mean they should be played by greater artists).

I'm not sure if they have the same level of depth as those, but I do think they represent very fine music.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Scion7 on September 23, 2020, 01:46:31 PM
I'm sure.  They don't approach the level of Beethoven's mid and especially last period sonatas, which are [along with Bach] some of the highest achievements in music. 
They are very nice pieces of music, and I like Rubinstein quite a bit.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Figaro on March 03, 2022, 04:57:26 AM
Regarding the symphonies, and specifically #2 "Ocean", I understand that the original 1851 version is about 40 minutes long in four movements (some recordings are of this version) but that Rubinstein subequently revised it much later to add three additional movements and resulting in the 72-minute Bruckner sized monster you get on the Naxos/Marco Polo recording. Consequently it's not quite accurate to class it as a youthful work, as some parts were written when Rubinstein was in his 50s. One wonders whether Bruckner was an influence as the 4th (dating to 1874) clocks in at over an hour.
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: foxandpeng on March 03, 2022, 05:23:39 AM
Rubinstein was one of the first "non-obvious" composers I encountered in my early journey into classical music. I remember borrowing the whole symphony set and recording them on those early CD-R players, and then listening to them over and over.

Good memories.

Even though I was warned that Rubinstein "isn't very highly praised", and I think I was loaned them because the owner thought it was amusing to share the second rate composer with the overly eager young enthusiast, I still think he is well worth the time. This Marco Polo version of symphony #2 is the only one I know, but the whole set has tunes I still enjoy revisiting 😁

Time to create a new playlist for the sake of nostalgia, despite the lukewarm reception from others! Quoting an esteemed friend from another thread...

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 04, 2011, 06:42:13 PM

As for the critics, let them run their mouths. After all, it's what they're good at doing. I could careless what they say about this composer or any composer. Music is subjective from person to person. What affects me won't necessarily affect someone else. I'll just leave it at that.


Edit:10 hours of symphonies added to the playlist!
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on March 08, 2022, 05:40:01 PM
According to what I've heard by Anton "Frankenstein" Rubinstein, the weakest of the bunch [symphonies] are Nos. 3 and 4. The others sound more engaging and less prosaic. The Piano Concertos must be good as well (I don't know them at all).
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on March 27, 2023, 03:47:45 AM
Valse op.109 No.2 (1884) - the last written valse by Anton Rubinstein.
https://www.ganjing.com/video/1fnrogrtda21qc7nngG8z832M1d61c (https://www.ganjing.com/video/1fnrogrtda21qc7nngG8z832M1d61c)
To be or not to be the happy end?

Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: foxandpeng on March 27, 2023, 02:39:05 PM
Nice to see this thread open again 🙂

I came to Rubinstein very early in my discovery of classical music, not realising he wasn't viewed by many as amongst the greatest composers. I came to really appreciate him, and still do 😁
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: lordlance on April 06, 2023, 04:40:22 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on March 27, 2023, 02:39:05 PMNice to see this thread open again 🙂

I came to Rubinstein very early in my discovery of classical music, not realising he wasn't viewed by many as amongst the greatest composers. I came to really appreciate him, and still do 😁

Any absolute favorites?
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: foxandpeng on April 06, 2023, 06:04:26 AM
Quote from: lordlance on April 06, 2023, 04:40:22 AMAny absolute favorites?

3 is good, as is 6. I do like them all, to be fair. They may not be Myaskovsky or Shostakovich, but they are all a pleasure 😁
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Albion on April 06, 2023, 07:07:54 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on April 06, 2023, 06:04:26 AM3 is good, as is 6. I do like them all, to be fair. They may not be Myaskovsky or Shostakovich, but they are all a pleasure 😁

We really DO need a new Rubinstein orchestral survey with a top orchestra, excellent soloists and a conductor who actually believes that the music is worthwhile - which it certainly is. It's a shame that Neeme Jarvi didn't get his paws on it and is now unlikely to, likewise Serebrier would have given us the goods...

 ;D
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on April 23, 2023, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: Albion on April 06, 2023, 07:07:54 AMWe really DO need a new Rubinstein orchestral survey with a top orchestra, excellent soloists and a conductor who actually believes that the music is worthwhile - which it certainly is. It's a shame that Neeme Jarvi didn't get his paws on it and is now unlikely to, likewise Serebrier would have given us the goods...

 ;D
Using computer audio editing and today recordings I have made for myself many satisfied recordings of Rubinstein's music - without waiting 100 years more when somebody will do it.
You can listen just for example only the 4th part of his 4 symphony in such alternative recording (and if you like, then the 1st part) and decide yourself - if somebody in the world can be compared to his great music. Here is the link on alternative recoding of the 4th symphony (all 4 mp3 files are in one zip archive):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xGLCrGPYjTTXZQgX_qiz38JMNUcIbRwL
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: W.A. Mozart on May 04, 2023, 06:18:41 AM
What do you think about the fifth symphony?

Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 04, 2023, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: W.A. Mozart on May 04, 2023, 06:18:41 AMWhat do you think about the fifth symphony?


Rubinstein 5 is amongst my favourites in the cycle 🙂
Title: Re: Anton Rubinstein (1829-1894)
Post by: Dima on May 08, 2023, 06:08:35 AM
Knowing the context, may help to understand the music of Rubinstein.
For example, how great people in Russia captured the image of Russia in different arts.
In music, this image you can hear in the first Symphony (1850) of twenty-one year old Anton Rubinstien – in its third part.
About same phenomen eighth years later poet Nekrasov wrote a poem "Thoughts At A Vestibule":
"Go out to the Volga: hear whose moan
Rises over Russia's greatest river?
In our land, this moan is called a song-
It's the boatmen straining in their traces!"

And after twenty-three years, a painted analog appeared in 'Burlaki on the Volga' by Repin.
The "Barge Haulers on the Volga" or "Burlaki on the Volga" it is not only the form of old labor used for transporting ships (sometimes slavish). It is also known as the image of people in Russia.

Listen to this music of Anton Rubinstein and look on the painting of Repin: 
https://www.ganjing.com/ru-RU/video/1fjaqcnke5hAsIBgzPeRQAzjh19b1c