GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: tjguitar on April 16, 2007, 09:27:43 AM

Title: William Alwyn
Post by: tjguitar on April 16, 2007, 09:27:43 AM
His symphonies are some of my favorites, I have the Naxos cycle:

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000A17GGK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45442570_AA240_.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000E0VNWA.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V46486230_AA240_.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000C847FO.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45612635_AA240_.jpg)
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000JVSVEM.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45088848_AA240_.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000BWF75A.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45547168_AA240_.jpg)(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00005RT19.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 16, 2007, 09:40:54 AM
For some discussion & recommendations from the old forum see this thread on 20th Century English Composers (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4392.0.html) -  :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Harry on April 16, 2007, 10:41:21 AM
I have the Alwyn symphonies on Chandos, and think them very good.
And some Naxos issues.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: JoshLilly on April 16, 2007, 10:47:01 AM
Not "Sir"?  He should go spit on a sidewalk, or tie his shoes, or open a car door by himself... and go ahead and get his Knighthood for it.   ;D
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Catison on April 16, 2007, 02:15:43 PM
The brass band I played with in high school did Alwyn's Moor of Venice Overture.  It was amazing fun to play.  I am going to have to get into more of his music.

Here (https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/btstewart/Music/03-Overture%20The%20Moor%20of%20Venice%20%28William%20Alwyn%29.mp3?uniq=-kmkine) is a recording from our competition.  We weren't the best band, but I always remember Moor of Venice being one of our favorite pieces.  I am playing BBb tuba and all the pedal notes.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Lilas Pastia on April 16, 2007, 03:46:37 PM
I have the Lyrita set (well, they're single discs) under Alwyn (late 70s vintage, in superb sound). Like Arnold, Alwyn was a past master at orchestration and  a good conductor. His concerto Lyra Angelica is stunningly beautiful. Of the film music I only have the Chandos disc with The Odd Man Out and Fallen Idol. Mention should also be made of his string quartets (Chandos again). They're very good (but not as revelatory as those of Daniel Jones). Definitely one of the major british composers, almost on the same level as Arnold (who would not be as well known if he had written only his first 5 symphonies).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: springrite on April 16, 2007, 03:57:10 PM
I, too, I have Lyra Angelica under Alwyn and it is indeed beautiful.

Vanessa's favorite Alwyn piece is the violin concerto -- never recorded previously until the CHANDOS release.

Also, special mention should be made about two very much neglected works, championed for years by John Ogdon, of the Fantasy Waltzes and 12 Preludes, for piano. There is a John Ogdon recording on CHANDOS.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: btpaul674 on April 16, 2007, 07:45:47 PM
I love his 2nd piano concerto. I've always been a big Alwyn fan.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2007, 02:16:03 AM
Dutton have a fine CD of Barbirolli conducting symphonies 1 and 2.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Hector on April 17, 2007, 04:34:46 AM
I, sort of, fell into acquiring the Naxos cycle, including the piano concertos and the recent issue of the Elizabethan Dances etc.

2nd, 3rd and 4th symphonies are my favourites and the whole of the Elizabethan Dances disc.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Fëanor on October 26, 2007, 04:16:57 AM
I've only just begun to sample Alwyn's music.  But I must say that I have found his string quartets to extremely enjoyable.  His String Quartet No. 2, "Spring Waters", I'd place among my top 20 favorite quartets of all time at least ...

(http://ca.geocities.com/w_d_bailey/Alwyn_StrgQrts_Rasumovsky.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 27, 2007, 02:52:54 PM
Have just listened to the Naxos Lloyd-Jones recordings of symphonies 1 and 3. I would say that these terrific performances, as good or better than the full price alternatives. A great way to start an Alwyn collection.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alwyn-Symphonies-Nos-1-3/dp/B000C847FO/ref=sr_1_1/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193525608&sr=1-1
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2007, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 27, 2007, 02:52:54 PM
Have just listened to the Naxos Lloyd-Jones recordings of symphonies 1 and 3. I would say that these terrific performances, as good or better than the full price alternatives. A great way to start an Alwyn collection.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alwyn-Symphonies-Nos-1-3/dp/B000C847FO/ref=sr_1_1/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193525608&sr=1-1

I don't know Alwyn as well as I should. The Elizabethan Dances disc from Naxos is all I can claim to have heard. That Dutton (love their cover art ;)) CD looks interesting, though.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Szykneij on October 14, 2008, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on April 16, 2007, 03:46:37 PM
I have the Lyrita set (well, they're single discs) under Alwyn (late 70s vintage, in superb sound).

I was unfamiliar with Alwyn's work until this Lyrita CD arrived in today's mail:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/ab/12/3f72224128a0a568ffb1c010.L.jpg)

Very powerful music, and yes, the sound quality is superb!


Quote from: Feanor on October 26, 2007, 04:16:57 AM
I've only just begun to sample Alwyn's music.  But I must say that I have found his string quartets to extremely enjoyable.  His String Quartet No. 2, "Spring Waters", I'd place among my top 20 favorite quartets of all time at least ...

Based on what I'm hearing of his symphonies, I'm eager to experience his string quartets, too.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: drogulus on October 14, 2008, 01:16:26 PM

   
     (http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2319/chan9243wf8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

     Odd Man Out is a great film with a great score. I saw this film on a late show on TV one night many years ago and I was mesmerized.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 15, 2008, 12:00:50 AM
Quote from: drogulus on October 14, 2008, 01:16:26 PM
   
     (http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2319/chan9243wf8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

     Odd Man Out is a great film with a great score. I saw this film on a late show on TV one night many years ago and I was mesmerized.

Totally agree. It is a symphonic score; very moving... a kind of doomed processional.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: jowcol on October 16, 2008, 09:35:02 AM
That Naxos disc with Symphonies 1 and 3 is a real keeper!  The Third in particular, sums up for me all that is great in 20th Century Symphony. (You mileage may vary).  The variant of "12 tone" that Alwyn applied there is really effective. (Focusing on 8 tones in the first movement, the other 4 in the second, and combining them in the third.) The great thing is that it didn't sound at all like an academic exercise, and the slow second movement is a work of beauty in spite of the constraints placed on it.

The other disc of the Naxos Alwyn series that I loved most was the Symphony 5("Hydrotaphia") and Lyra Angelica.  The Symphony was much terser and angular for the the first 2/3s of its length, but the ending with the tolling bells is absolutely unreal.  (Browne's 17th Century essay that it is based on is a mind-boggling meditation on mortality-- worth looking up.)  And Lyra Angelica simply makes me melt.

I still haven't clicked with symphonies 2 and 4-- and I'll need to try the file scores.  A good film score is worth keeping.


A tangent-- but I just rediscovered Goldsmith's score for the orginal "Alien"-  although there is a lot of atonal freakout parts, the main theme is something that struck me between Prokofiev and Scriabin, and is really gorgeous.  I think the reason that movie pulled me in so deep when it first came out is that I felt that somebody wrote the soundtrack just for me.  Of course, being pulled into the S.S. Nostromo when the flesh-eating alien is on board may not be the kind of favor one would want.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Dundonnell on October 16, 2008, 04:15:55 PM
Alwyn has been fantastically lucky to have three such excellent sets of his symphonies on disc(Lyrita with the composer, Chandos-Hickox, and Naxos-Lloyd-Jones). You can't go wrong with any of these(or, of course, all of them if you are minted like...me?...as if ;D)

It is great that you have discovered such superb music :) Alwyn is a most rewarding composer whose music was totally eclipsed in the 60s and 70s but has been revived through the marvellous medium of disc. The concert hall, sadly, is another matter altogether!
I wonder when an Alwyn symphony was last played at-say-the Proms?

The 3rd is my favourite too, although, like yourself, I much admire the short 5th. I recall listening to the 3rd symphony whilst reading some book or other about a Himalayan mountaineering expedition which ended in tragedy(I think the German attempt on Nanga Parbat in 1934) and the work always now conjures up for me the doomed heroism of that story.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 30, 2008, 01:26:16 PM
Have been listening to Symphony No 2; my favourite (and Alwyn's) of the cycle. It is a rather sibelian score but oddly moving in a characteristically understated British way (Lloyd-Jones recording on Naxos). Alwyn is one of my favourite British composers. I must investigate SQ No 2 from the recommendations here.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Christo on December 30, 2008, 01:37:27 PM
Time to sleep, so the only thing you get from me being: that I agree with almost everything written here by almost everyone.  0:)

Hadn't observed this Alwyn thread before, but I'm happy so many (non-BSE  ;)) know and love his music. Me among them.  :D
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Dundonnell on December 30, 2008, 03:02:41 PM
Quote from: JoshLilly on April 16, 2007, 10:47:01 AM
Not "Sir"?  He should go spit on a sidewalk, or tie his shoes, or open a car door by himself... and go ahead and get his Knighthood for it.   ;D

Too late for Alwyn and Rubbra now, sadly.

Some far less talented composers than they got a knighthood!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 30, 2008, 03:15:01 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 30, 2008, 03:02:41 PM
Too late for Alwyn and Rubbra now, sadly.

Some far less talented composers than they got a knighthood!

Who do you have in mind Colin?  ;D
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Dundonnell on December 30, 2008, 03:26:38 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 30, 2008, 03:15:01 PM
Who do you have in mind Colin?  ;D

Ah.........nasty!

If you really force me.....Richard Rodney Bennett, John Tavener. I don't even happen to think-and it is only a purely personal opinion of course-that Lennox Berkeley was any better a composer than Alwyn or Rubbra. Malcolm Arnold? I think that he probably did deserve his 'gong'. I refuse-point blank-to make any comments whatsoever about Sir Harrison Birtwistle. >:D
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 31, 2008, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 30, 2008, 03:26:38 PM
Ah.........nasty!

If you really force me.....Richard Rodney Bennett, John Tavener. I don't even happen to think-and it is only a purely personal opinion of course-that Lennox Berkeley was any better a composer than Alwyn or Rubbra. Malcolm Arnold? I think that he probably did deserve his 'gong'. I refuse-point blank-to make any comments whatsoever about Sir Harrison Birtwistle. >:D

I would include the current Master of the Queen's Music  >:D
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 12, 2009, 01:15:23 PM
Have just listened to a very interesting CD in The Beecham Collection (SOMM-BEECHAM 23). It includes the first performance of Alwyn's Third Symphony (which John Ireland thought was the greatest British symphony since Elgar). The recording is from the Festival Hall concert on 10th October 1956 with Beecham conducting the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Despite the mono recording and it being over fifty years ago, the power of this fine work comes across more eloquently than in any other recording (and I have those on Lyrita, Naxos and Chandos). The end is especially poignant. Well worth looking out for.

Added later. I found a review of the CD:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2008/Apr08/Alwyn_Beecham_sommbeecham23.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2008/Apr08/Alwyn_Beecham_sommbeecham23.htm&usg=__QjIZig54KVSAglFm7LUPXMxCghk=&h=297&w=300&sz=27&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=ymq-J_sKGYuXzM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbeecham%2Bedition%2Balwyn%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26ie%3DUTF-8
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Dundonnell on January 12, 2009, 01:31:49 PM
There is a new biography of Alwyn which was well reviewed-

http://www.boydell.co.uk/4383412X.HTM

I am tempted by it but I find biographies of composers usually somewhat frustrating. They either tell one a lot about the composer's life but leave one dissatisfied by the incomplete coverage of his music or concentrate on technical descriptions of the music(which are sometimes over my head) and leave the man himself as a shadowy character.

The two I bought recently are a bit like that. Peter Dickinson's book on Lennox Berkeley is excellent in many ways but practically ignores some of the music(the Flute Concerto, the 4th Symphony). Leo Black's book on Rubbra has superb analyses of the symphonies but I would have liked more about Rubbra the man.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 13, 2009, 03:39:44 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 12, 2009, 01:31:49 PM
There is a new biography of Alwyn which was well reviewed-

http://www.boydell.co.uk/4383412X.HTM

I am tempted by it but I find biographies of composers usually somewhat frustrating. They either tell one a lot about the composer's life but leave one dissatisfied by the incomplete coverage of his music or concentrate on technical descriptions of the music(which are sometimes over my head) and leave the man himself as a shadowy character.

The two I bought recently are a bit like that. Peter Dickinson's book on Lennox Berkeley is excellent in many ways but practically ignores some of the music(the early Cello Concerto, the Flute Concerto, the 4th Symphony). Leo Black's book on Rubbra has superb analyses of the symphonies but I would have liked more about Rubbra the man.

I am tempted by the biography (and thanks Colin for alerting me to it), not least to read about 'the major crisis in Alwyn's life'. but not at £60. i agree with what you say about composer biographies. Honegger's 'I am a composer' which I am currently reading says very little about his life outside music, which I find frustrating. One of the best was 'A Heart at Fire's Center' about Bernard Herrmann.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Dundonnell on January 13, 2009, 06:33:46 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 13, 2009, 03:39:44 AM
I am tempted by the biography (and thanks Colin for alerting me to it), not least to read about 'the major crisis in Alwyn's life'. but not at £60. i agree with what you say about composer biographies. Honegger's 'I am a composer' which I am currently reading says very little about his life outside music, which I find frustrating. One of the best was 'A Heart at Fire's Center' about Bernard Herrmann.

£30, Jeffrey(60 US Dollars) ;D
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 14, 2009, 02:32:20 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on January 13, 2009, 06:33:46 AM
£30, Jeffrey(60 US Dollars) ;D
Oh! thanks Colin but will refrain for the moment having splurged out recently on CDs of music by Alan Bush, Leon Orthel, Simeon Ten Holt and pre-ordered Goossens Symphony No 1 on Chandos.  Maybe I'll see if the library will order a copy of the Alwyn biography.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: MDL on January 14, 2009, 03:15:52 AM
I've never heard any Alwyn, but I'd be curious to dip my toe. On holiday in China in 2002, I spent two weeks or so in the company of Alwyn's son from his first marriage, but we didn't talk much about his dad.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 14, 2009, 07:39:01 AM
Quote from: MDL on January 14, 2009, 03:15:52 AM
I've never heard any Alwyn, but I'd be curious to dip my toe. On holiday in China in 2002, I spent two weeks or so in the company of Alwyn's son from his first marriage, but we didn't talk much about his dad.

That's very interesting. I didn't know that Alwyn had any children.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Lilas Pastia on January 19, 2009, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 14, 2009, 02:32:20 AM
Oh! thanks Colin but will refrain for the moment having splurged out recently on CDs of music by Alan Bush, Leon Orthel, Simeon Ten Holt and pre-ordered Goossens Symphony No 1 on Chandos.  Maybe I'll see if the library will order a copy of the Alwyn biography.

Hello, Jeffrey  ;). Do you know Vernon Handley's account of the Goossens symphony? It's on ABC and quite a good account IMO (although I can't compare it to any other ::)). What will the Chandos be coupled with ?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 19, 2009, 11:38:13 PM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 19, 2009, 06:09:01 PM
Hello, Jeffrey  ;). Do you know Vernon Handley's account of the Goossens symphony? It's on ABC and quite a good account IMO (although I can't compare it to any other ::)). What will the Chandos be coupled with ?


Hi Andre  ;) Yes, I have the ABC CD and the old Unicorn LP. It's coupled with the Phantasy Concerto for piano and orch.

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Lilas Pastia on January 20, 2009, 08:22:28 PM
Keep us posted, then !  :D
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2009, 01:29:49 AM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 20, 2009, 08:22:28 PM
Keep us posted, then !  :D

Of course  8)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2010, 06:20:38 PM
William Alwyn is one of my favorite English composers. His music is so melodic and rhythmically enticing. Unfortunately, I do not own that much of his music. All I own is the Richard Hickox series, when they were released individually (7 recordings in all). This also includes the film music disc with "Odd Man Out," which is one of the great scores in film music.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2010, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 30, 2008, 01:26:16 PM
Have been listening to Symphony No 2; my favourite (and Alwyn's) of the cycle. It is a rather sibelian score but oddly moving in a characteristically understated British way (Lloyd-Jones recording on Naxos). Alwyn is one of my favourite British composers. I must investigate SQ No 2 from the recommendations here.

I like his Symphonies Nos. 3 and 4 the best. Of his other works, I love "Lyra Angelica," "Pastoral Fantasia," "Elizabethan Dances," all of his concerti, especially "Oboe Concerto" and "Violin Concerto." A truly great composer with a lyrical gift for music.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2010, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2010, 06:27:09 PM
I like his Symphonies Nos. 3 and 4 the best. Of his other works, I love "Lyra Angelica," "Pastoral Fantasia," "Elizabethan Dances," all of his concerti, especially "Oboe Concerto" and "Violin Concerto." A truly great composer with a lyrical gift for music.

We have similar tastes, although Symphony No 2 is my favourite (it was Alwyn's too). They are all good and I totally agree about 'Odd Man Out' - one of the greatest music scores and worthy to stand alongside the symphonies.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: springrite on July 01, 2010, 12:16:27 AM
I will find out about Symphony #2 and the Oboe Concerto, both of which I have ordered from Amazon via our own Just Jeff. Always loved Alwyn.  Can't wait!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Fëanor on July 01, 2010, 05:25:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2010, 06:20:38 PM
William Alwyn is one of my favorite English composers. His music is so melodic and rhythmically enticing. Unfortunately, I do not own that much of his music. All I own is the Richard Hickox series, when they were released individually (7 recordings in all). This also includes the film music disc with "Odd Man Out," which is one of the great scores in film music.
I like Alywn's string quartets in particular.  I own both the Rasumovsky and Maggini versions; both good though of the two I'd recommend the Maggini ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518WP4VZJ9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)    (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RZUTeG-6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

... ArkivMusic listing for the Maggini (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=240&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=212665)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2010, 06:12:42 AM
Quote from: Feanor on July 01, 2010, 05:25:45 AM
I like Alywn's string quartets in particular.  I own both the Rasumovsky and Maggini versions; both good though of the two I'd recommend the Maggini ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518WP4VZJ9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)    (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RZUTeG-6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

... ArkivMusic listing for the Maggini (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=240&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=212665)

Thanks - have just ordered the Maggini on the strength of this.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Fëanor on July 02, 2010, 03:07:09 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 01, 2010, 06:12:42 AM
Thanks - have just ordered the Maggini on the strength of this.
Let us know what you thing of them!  :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2010, 03:53:02 AM
Quote from: Feanor on July 02, 2010, 03:07:09 AM
Let us know what you thing of them!  :)

Of course I will   :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2010, 12:42:50 AM
Quote from: Feanor on July 02, 2010, 03:07:09 AM
Let us know what you thing of them!  :)

This is a fine CD. The SQ No 1 in particular, which I have played several times already - the Adagio is beutiful, as the notes say, unlike anything else in Alwyn. In some ways I think that the SQs are deeper works than the symphonies (apart from symphs 2 and 5), much as I like all the symphonies. The beautiful slow movement of SQ No 1 reminded me of Miaskovsky - this is searching and eloquent music. I look forward to getting to know the second and third string quartets - so thanks for the recommendation.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on December 14, 2010, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 27, 2007, 02:52:54 PM
Have just listened to the Naxos Lloyd-Jones recordings of symphonies 1 and 3. I would say that these terrific performances, as good or better than the full price alternatives. A great way to start an Alwyn collection.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alwyn-Symphonies-Nos-1-3/dp/B000C847FO/ref=sr_1_1/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193525608&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alwyn-Symphonies-Nos-1-3/dp/B000C847FO/ref=sr_1_1/202-9347871-3364610?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1193525608&sr=1-1)


I love Hickox's Alwyn series on Chandos, which I didn't pay full price for and got quite cheaply early last year (around $3-$8 from an Amazon Marketplace seller). Lloyd-Jones series on Naxos is proving to be really good as well. I don't think I can part ways with either conductor's series and why would I? Alwyn is one of my favorites.

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 15, 2010, 07:25:48 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 14, 2010, 04:44:56 PM

I love Hickox's Alwyn series on Chandos, which I didn't pay full price for and got quite cheaply early last year (around $3-$8 from an Amazon Marketplace seller). Lloyd-Jones series on Naxos is proving to be really good as well. I don't think I can part ways with either conductor's series and why would I? Alwyn is one of my favorites.

Me too. Do you know his movie score for 'Odd Man Out' (Chandos)? One of his greatest works I think and together with Symphony No 2, my favourite Alwyn score. The CD has a different cover image now (smaller picture below), but I prefer the original one below - a photograph from the film. The main title is available also, very cheaply, on the 'Byways of British Music' CD (same performance with Hickox).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: snyprrr on December 15, 2010, 08:58:50 AM
Quote from: Feanor on July 01, 2010, 05:25:45 AM
I like Alywn's string quartets in particular.  I own both the Rasumovsky and Maggini versions; both good though of the two I'd recommend the Maggini ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518WP4VZJ9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)    (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RZUTeG-6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

... ArkivMusic listing for the Maggini (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=240&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=212665)

Listening again to SQ No.2, and still not getting it. Was it you who was telling me about this a year or so ago? Will continue, though...
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on December 16, 2010, 06:58:13 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 15, 2010, 07:25:48 AM
Me too. Do you know his movie score for 'Odd Man Out' (Chandos)? One of his greatest works I think and together with Symphony No 2, my favourite Alwyn score. The CD has a different cover image now (smaller picture below), but I prefer the original one below - a photograph from the film. The main title is available also, very cheaply, on the 'Byways of British Music' CD (same performance with Hickox).

Oh yes, vandermolen, as I mentioned earlier, I own ALL of Hickox's Alwyn recordings. The individual releases that is. There's 7 or 8 CDs in total. Wonderful music and actually going back to one of the disc with the seldom heard Violin Concerto I'm actually enjoying this concerto a lot. Have you heard it?

Odd Man Out is one of the greatest film scores ever composed I think. There's something about composers of Alwyn's generation that wrote film music. It seemed like legitimate music and there wasn't this Hollywood sheen over the scores like there has been for the past 30 years or so.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 16, 2010, 07:33:13 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 16, 2010, 06:58:13 AM
Oh yes, vandermolen, as I mentioned earlier, I own ALL of Hickox's Alwyn recordings. The individual releases that is. There's 7 or 8 CDs in total. Wonderful music and actually going back to one of the disc with the seldom heard Violin Concerto I'm actually enjoying this concerto a lot. Have you heard it?

Odd Man Out is one of the greatest film scores ever composed I think. There's something about composers of Alwyn's generation that wrote film music. It seemed like legitimate music and there wasn't this Hollywood sheen over the scores like there has been for the past 30 years or so.

Right, I shall be listening to the Violin Concerto tonight!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 16, 2010, 02:02:42 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 16, 2010, 06:58:13 AM
Oh yes, vandermolen, as I mentioned earlier, I own ALL of Hickox's Alwyn recordings. The individual releases that is. There's 7 or 8 CDs in total. Wonderful music and actually going back to one of the disc with the seldom heard Violin Concerto I'm actually enjoying this concerto a lot. Have you heard it?

Odd Man Out is one of the greatest film scores ever composed I think. There's something about composers of Alwyn's generation that wrote film music. It seemed like legitimate music and there wasn't this Hollywood sheen over the scores like there has been for the past 30 years or so.

The Violin Concerto is indeed a fine work - not sure that I ever played it before.  I especially liked the lyrical section about 6 minutes into the slow movement.  Thanks for the recommendation.  I shall be playing it again soon.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: jowcol on December 16, 2010, 02:09:23 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 16, 2010, 06:58:13 AM
Odd Man Out is one of the greatest film scores ever composed I think. There's something about composers of Alwyn's generation that wrote film music. It seemed like legitimate music and there wasn't this Hollywood sheen over the scores like there has been for the past 30 years or so.

Strongly agree.  I've not seen the movie, but I love the suite.

And, I may have mentioned this earlier, but I really adore Alwyn's 3rd-- I consider that one of the great 20th Century Symphonies.

Glad that Vandermolen found a slow movement!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on December 16, 2010, 06:22:37 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 16, 2010, 02:02:42 PM
The Violin Concerto is indeed a fine work - not sure that I ever played it before.  I especially liked the lyrical section about 6 minutes into the slow movement.  Thanks for the recommendation.  I shall be playing it again soon.


I'm glad you enjoyed this work! It's very underrated I think even amongst Alwyn fans. Lydia Mordkovich does a fine job in this performance.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on December 16, 2010, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: jowcol on December 16, 2010, 02:09:23 PM
Strongly agree.  I've not seen the movie, but I love the suite.

And, I may have mentioned this earlier, but I really adore Alwyn's 3rd-- I consider that one of the great 20th Century Symphonies.


Alwyn's 3rd is a fine work indeed. I love it. I also find it interesting how Alwyn devised his own approach to the 12-tone technique in this symphony. He made it sound so lyrical.




Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 17, 2010, 02:43:28 AM
Quote from: jowcol on December 16, 2010, 02:09:23 PM
Strongly agree.  I've not seen the movie, but I love the suite.

And, I may have mentioned this earlier, but I really adore Alwyn's 3rd-- I consider that one of the great 20th Century Symphonies.

Glad that Vandermolen found a slow movement!

Yes, I'm glad to find it too! Although there was an insufficient sense of looming catastrophe and mad, hopeless defiance for my taste :D

Alwyn's 3rd is a fine work. John Ireland said that it was the best Bristish symphony since Elgar Symphony No 2 (but what about Walton's 1st, Vaughan Williams's 4-6 and Moeran's Symphony?). I recently found a great old performance with Thomas Beecham conductiong what I think was the premiere of Alwyn's 3rd and I also enjoy the Hickox, Lloyd-Jones and Alwyn performances too.  I like the Dutton CD of Barbirolli conducting Symphony No 1 and 2 (my favourites I think). All the symphonies are great - 3 and 4 have terrific opening movements but one of them has a repetitive scherzo (No 4 I think - I'm at work( :o) so can't check) which I fInd a bit tedious.  Fine composer though.

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: jowcol on December 17, 2010, 03:56:45 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 17, 2010, 02:43:28 AM
Yes, I'm glad to find it too! Although there was an insufficient sense of looming catastrophe and mad, hopeless defiance for my taste :D

Alwyn's 3rd is a fine work. John Ireland said that it was the best Bristish symphony since Elgar Symphony No 2 (but what about Walton's 1st, Vaughan Williams's 4-6 and Moeran's Symphony?). I recently found a great old performance with Thomas Beecham conductiong what I think was the premiere of Alwyn's 3rd and I also enjoy the Hickox, Lloyd-Jones and Alwyn performances too.  I like the Dutton CD of Barbirolli conducting Symphony No 1 and 2 (my favourites I think). All the symphonies are great - 3 and 4 have terrific opening movements but one of the has a repetitive scherzo (No 4 I think - I'm at work( :o) so can't check) which I fInd a bit tedious.  Fine composer though.

I think 4 is the one you are referring to.   3 has a really cool structure  as Mirror Image had pointed out, as it uses 8 tones in the first movement, the remaining 4 in the second, and bounces them against each other in the third.  And it really works-- it doesn't sound like an academic exercise. Also there is a nice SLOW movement in the middle that manages to get an impressive amount of lyrical content from a very limited palette.  It's worth another listen.
I must admit that I only keep the first movement of the 4th on my mp3 player.


The 5th is a different animal, but the last 5 minutes is incredible.  I really love the David Lloyd Jones disc with the 5th and Lyra Angelica-- although I've not compared versions with other conductors..
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on December 17, 2010, 06:18:30 AM
Quote from: jowcol on December 17, 2010, 03:56:45 AM
I think 4 is the one you are referring to.   3 has a really cool structure  as Mirror Image had pointed out, as it uses 8 tones in the first movement, the remaining 4 in the second, and bounces them against each other in the third.  And it really works-- it doesn't sound like an academic exercise. Also there is a nice SLOW movement in the middle that manages to get an impressive amount of lyrical content from a very limited palette.  It's worth another listen.
I must admit that I only keep the first movement of the 4th on my mp3 player.


The 5th is a different animal, but the last 5 minutes is incredible.  I really love the David Lloyd Jones disc with the 5th and Lyra Angelica-- although I've not compared versions with other conductors..

That is a lovely CD (Naxos) perhaps one of the best Alwyn CDs around.  I like the concentrated Symphony No 5.  I heard Alwyn conducting a live performance on the radio in the late 1970s I guess.  I sent him a fan letter about it and received a very warm hearted reply.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on September 14, 2011, 11:29:55 AM
Beecham's premiere performance of Alwyn's Third Symphony (the best British symphony since Elgar's 2nd, according to John Ireland - I don't agree) is a revelation. For some reason Barbirolli and Sargent wouldn't or couldn't conduct it - but this was fortunate, in a way, as Beecham's performance is in a class of its own - like the Koussevitsky recording of Hanson's Third Symphony - it has a sense of urgency unlike any other recorded performance.  I could have done without the Mozart and Grieg - but the Alwyn is sensational.
[asin]B0014FIHLO[/asin]
Been listening to this again today - such a fine performance (the first one ever). Apparently Alwyn rushe up to Beecham at the interval to say that he had never heard his music performed so brilliantly. Thought I'd bump the thread up anyway.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: tjguitar on October 30, 2011, 11:41:16 AM
There's been several Alwyn CDs on Naxos in the past couple years that I have not heard yet. Any thoughts?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41nmPi6KRGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ucYrf8giL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RFoqFbeEL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517-F69gZYL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tfQPFC%2BfL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51olhX4C0VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: madaboutmahler on July 12, 2012, 12:42:38 PM
At the music event I was talking about, which happened yesterday, Scarlet played Alwyn's Violin Sonatina, what a lovely piece. It interested me to listen to some more of his music, so I am youtube at the moment listening to various excerpts. Started off listening to some of the 3rd symphony which sounded absolutely great. Now, listening to the whole of the 'Four Elizabethan Dances' which I am enjoying incredibly much. Really wonderful, great music.

Definitely a composer I am very keen to explore! I'll make sure to purchase some of his music as soon as possible. Probably the Naxos Lloyd-Jones recording of the 3rd symphony to start with?

Really enjoying the 'Four Elizabethan Dances' at the moment! :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on November 11, 2013, 11:02:34 AM
Great new release of eloquent performances in historic recordings.

[asin]B00EXPCOKM[/asin]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on November 11, 2013, 11:28:41 AM
Quote from: tjguitar on October 30, 2011, 11:41:16 AM
There's been several Alwyn CDs on Naxos in the past couple years that I have not heard yet. Any thoughts?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41nmPi6KRGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ucYrf8giL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RFoqFbeEL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517-F69gZYL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tfQPFC%2BfL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51olhX4C0VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I have the very enjoyable Naxos CD with Autumn Legend - a lovely work but I like the newly issued Barbirolli recording even more, although allowances need to be made for the age of the recordings.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: snyprrr on June 08, 2014, 05:36:39 PM
I still haven't heard 'The' Alwyn work. The highly touted SQ2 certainly didn't move like the corresponding Arnold work,... what do you think?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: snyprrr on June 09, 2014, 07:15:04 AM
 :blank:
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Fëanor on June 09, 2014, 07:38:48 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 08, 2014, 05:36:39 PM
I still haven't heard 'The' Alwyn work. The highly touted SQ2 certainly didn't move like the corresponding Arnold work,... what do you think?

I like them both.  The Arnold SQ No. 2 is certainly more emotionally up-beat, the Alwyn more introspective, I's say.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: snyprrr on June 09, 2014, 11:48:54 AM
Quote from: Fëanor on June 09, 2014, 07:38:48 AM
I like them both.  The Arnold SQ No. 2 is certainly more emotionally up-beat, the Alwyn more introspective, I's say.

Wait ::)...

We've been having this conversation for a while now, haha! :laugh: I'll continue trying 'Quiet Waters', though my decades long expectation of it (through PenguinGuide) was shattered by the actual hearing. Will que up
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: snyprrr on June 10, 2014, 07:55:52 AM
sorry, must bump Alwyn with Arnold- it's the Rule
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Fëanor on June 11, 2014, 04:44:50 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 10, 2014, 07:55:52 AM
sorry, must bump Alwyn with Arnold- it's the Rule

Fine.  Maybe you should lay off the Penguin Guide.  ;)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 08, 2015, 01:10:32 PM
I have been listening to Symphony 4. I think that the opening movement is possible the best thing Alwyn wrote and, in a way, complete in itself:
[asin]B000000ALW[/asin]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Christo on June 08, 2015, 09:47:28 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 08, 2015, 01:10:32 PMI have been listening to Symphony 4. I think that the opening movement is possible the best thing Alwyn wrote and, in a way, complete in itself:
[asin]B000000ALW[/asin]

Agreed, the majestatic Fourth (1959) is his rightful claim to fame (though I always loved the very atmospheric Second, too).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 09, 2015, 01:20:31 PM
Quote from: Christo on June 08, 2015, 09:47:28 PM
Agreed, the majestatic Fourth (1959) is his rightful claim to fame (though I always loved the very atmospheric Second, too).

Me too and I think that No 2 is the greatest of Alwyn's symphonies. I am not that keen on the rather bombastic and repetitive second movement of Symphony 4 after the wonderful opening movement. Having said that I think it works better in the Hickox version than in the composer's own recording. No 2 is excellent throughout.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Christo on June 13, 2015, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 09, 2015, 01:20:31 PMMe too and I think that No 2 is the greatest of Alwyn's symphonies. I am not that keen on the rather bombastic and repetitive second movement of Symphony 4 after the wonderful opening movement. Having said that I think it works better in the Hickox version than in the composer's own recording. No 2 is excellent throughout.

I see. I missed Alwyn's own recording of the Fourth, in the old days, only knew his Lyrita recordings of the Second and also the Sinfonietta for Strings, both very well done IIRC. So, I only know the Fourth from the Chandos-Hickox version, and never had any problems with that obstinate second movement: in my ears, it works very well.  :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on February 27, 2016, 12:42:45 AM
I ordered the complete Alwyn symphony cycle on Naxos a few days ago, and two of the discs arrived this morning (as already posted in the Purchases thread). I've been meaning to get these discs for a while now, after hearing the Symphony No. 1 at the Proms a few years ago.

And yet another fine composer born in Northampton. With Malcolm Arnold and Edmund Rubbra hailing from that part of the world too, I'm beginning to think of Northampton as the second great hub of 19th/20th-century British composers, after the Three Choirs region, home of Elgar, Holst, RVW et al.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on February 27, 2016, 10:13:53 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on February 27, 2016, 12:42:45 AM
I ordered the complete Alwyn symphony cycle on Naxos a few days ago, and two of the discs arrived this morning (as already posted in the Purchases thread). I've been meaning to get these discs for a while now, after hearing the Symphony No. 1 at the Proms a few years ago.

And yet another fine composer born in Northampton. With Malcolm Arnold and Edmund Rubbra hailing from that part of the world too, I'm beginning to think of Northampton as the second great hub of 19th/20th-century British composers, after the Three Choirs region, home of Elgar, Holst, RVW et al.
Yes, interesting about all those composers from Northampton. I was sorry to miss that Prom performance of Alwyn's 1st Symphony. You should enjoy the fine Naxos cycle. I'd also recommend the Naxos CD with Alwyn's shorter orchestral music including 'The Magic Island' which is a very atmospheric tone poem depicting Prospero's island from The Tempest and the charming Elizabethan Dances and Aphrodite in Aulis:
[asin]B000JVSVEM[/asin]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on February 29, 2016, 12:48:24 PM
Having received the third disc of Alwyn symphonies this morning, I've just completed a full cycle of listening to all five symphonies. I think I'm really going to enjoy getting to know these fine works. Quite often the music reminded me of Walton, which is not a bad thing at all.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on March 01, 2016, 11:47:35 PM
Quote from: Maestro267 on February 29, 2016, 12:48:24 PM
Having received the third disc of Alwyn symphonies this morning, I've just completed a full cycle of listening to all five symphonies. I think I'm really going to enjoy getting to know these fine works. Quite often the music reminded me of Walton, which is not a bad thing at all.
Which is your favourite symphony? They are all strong. John Ireland thought that No.3 was the strongest Brirish symphony since Elgar's 2nd although I wouldn't agree. I think that the greatest is No.2 although the opening movement of Symphony 4 is magnificent - like a symphony in itself. No.1 is underrated I think.
Title: Re: William Alwyn (1905-1985)
Post by: Scion7 on April 11, 2016, 01:41:47 PM
Been checking out the CHANDOS "Chamber Music Vol.2" disc -

Sonata for Oboe & Piano
Sonata for Flute & Piano
Clarinet Sonata
Sonata Impromptu for Violin & Viola
   and
the Divertimento for solo Flute - Kate Hill does outstanding work on this

- from this set I like a lot. Nice work.

(http://s28.postimg.org/nqr5hkoi5/Alwyn_Cw2.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on April 12, 2016, 05:39:26 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 01, 2016, 11:47:35 PM
Which is your favourite symphony? They are all strong. John Ireland thought that No.3 was the strongest Brirish symphony since Elgar's 2nd although I wouldn't agree. I think that the greatest is No.2 although the opening movement of Symphony 4 is magnificent - like a symphony in itself. No.1 is underrated I think.

Having listened to all of them several times now, I think No. 2 might be my current favourite. But I find things I enjoy about all 5 symphonies.
Title: Re: William Alwyn - classic score
Post by: Scion7 on April 13, 2016, 09:27:55 PM
For a classic film. The Muir is fine but it was taken at a faster pace (with Alwyn's agreement) to 'fit' the runtime of the film - the CD has the music performed per the notation on the score.

(http://s30.postimg.org/c0giwadwh/titlecard.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 13, 2016, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 12, 2016, 05:39:26 AM
Having listened to all of them several times now, I think No. 2 might be my current favourite. But I find things I enjoy about all 5 symphonies.
I very much agree.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 13, 2016, 10:53:06 PM
I had the opposite experience to one of the contributors here, I listened to Alwyn's String Quartets and thought they were much better than Arnold's.

I haven't had much luck with appreciating the symphonies, they never seem to work. The 4th is the best though, in my opinion.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Scion7 on April 14, 2016, 07:46:06 AM
Swiss Family Robinson   1960  - now, this is a score that works best along with the movie rather than 'standalone' in my opinion - whereas Odd Man Out Suite  works as just a wonderful piece of music.  So does Fallen Idol.

(http://s22.postimg.org/x4rm1xmtt/Swiss_Family_Robinson_Title.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 14, 2016, 09:05:59 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 14, 2016, 07:46:06 AM
Swiss Family Robinson   1960  - now, this is a score that works best along with the movie rather than 'standalone' in my opinion - whereas Odd Man Out Suite  works as just a wonderful piece of music.  So does Fallen Idol.

(http://s22.postimg.org/x4rm1xmtt/Swiss_Family_Robinson_Title.jpg)
'Odd Man Out' is a marvellous score - a kind of doomed processional which reminds me of the Road to Calvary sequence from Miklos Rosza's score for 'Ben Hur'.
Title: Re: William Alwyn [1905-1985]
Post by: Scion7 on April 14, 2016, 06:18:22 PM
This week I've been on an Alwyn review - been a while since I listened to him.  Strong composer - very little that I have heard do I rate less than very good - mostly the film scores that are more bland than his masterful ones.

The Concerto Grosso Nr.3 (1964) is a fine piece of the mature composer.  (http://www.boydellandbrewer.com/store/catalog/bigs/9781843834120.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Scion7 on April 14, 2016, 06:36:43 PM
Alwyn with his first wife, Olive Pull (http://images.npg.org.uk/800_800/1/3/mw185313.jpg)

and wife no.2, the composer Doreen Carwithen (https://kantateposts.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/post/picture/1066/Doreen_Carwithendoreen-carwithen.jpg) (aka Mary Alwyn) - significantly younger than Bill.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on April 14, 2016, 06:46:35 PM
Alwyn is a composer that had impressed me in the past. I need to revisit his music. What series do you guys prefer: Hickox on Chandos or Lloyd-Jones on Naxos? The reason I'm asking is I own both. :) I remember the Hickox being my favorite.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: André on April 14, 2016, 06:55:15 PM
The Lyrita recordings under the composer are a must and a benchmark. Plus, they are gorgeously played and recorded.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on April 14, 2016, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: André on April 14, 2016, 06:55:15 PM
The Lyrita recordings under the composer are a must and a benchmark. Plus, they are gorgeously played and recorded.

Well, I don't own those and don't feel I need any more Alwyn at this juncture plus I asked about Hickox and Lloyd-Jones since these are the recordings I own.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Scion7 on April 14, 2016, 07:04:33 PM
All three are very fine - I can't really choose one over the other.
For authenticity, the ones on Lyrita under the Composer Himself.  :)

Naxos may have a slightly better sound sonically, but it won't be much as the Chandos sounds really good, too.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 14, 2016, 11:58:57 PM
I have a useful old CD guide at home called 'Third Ear' edited by Alexander Morin whose views I trust and tend to agree with. Here are his recommendations for Alwyn symphonies written before the Naxos cycle appeared:

Symphony 1: Hickox (the best in his series)

Symphony 2: Alwyn (the best in his series of recordings) but the Hickox is very good too - a bit slower and more moulded, concentrated and insightful but not as large-scale and powerful as Alwyn's recording.

Symphony 3: Hickox has a slightly more cohesive hold.

Symphony 4: Hickox is slightly more expansive and gripping than Alwyn.

Symphony 5: both Alwyn and Hickox give fine performances with Hickox a bit weightier and more cogent.

So, on balance Hickox is the No.1 choice and personally I don't think that the Naxos cycle changes this even though I enjoy those recordings too and love the combination of symphonies 2,5 and Lyra Angelica on the first release of that cycle. Frankly all three cycles are excellent but I would go for the Hickox cycle. I would not, however, want to be without Alwyn's own recording of Symphony 2 (my first experience of the composer's music on a Lyrita LP) and the Lyrita CD featuring symphonies 2,3 and 5 on a single CD is a winner. Unlike John I like historical recordings and was delighted to find a historic CD (Dutton/Barbirolli Society) of Barbirolli (the dedicatee of Symphony 1) conducting symphonies 1 and 2 complete with old BBC radio announcements (great photo of Alwyn and his record player on the cover). There is a biography of Alwyn called 'The Innumerable Dance' by Adrian Wright. It was well reviewed although I haven't read it yet. This review is interesting!

http://www.john-robert-brown.com/the-innumerable-dance.htm

[asin]B000BRPXNG[/asin]




Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on April 15, 2016, 03:30:10 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 14, 2016, 11:58:57 PM
I have a useful old CD guide at home called 'Third Ear' edited by Alexander Morin whose views I trust and tend to agree with. Here are his recommendations for Alwyn symphonies written before the Naxos cycle appeared:

Symphony 1: Hickox (the best in his series)

Symphony 2: Alwyn (the best in his series of recordings) but the Hickox is very good too - a bit slower and more moulded, concentrated and insightful but not as large-scale and powerful as Alwyn's recording.

Symphony 3: Hickox has a slightly more cohesive hold.

Symphony 4: Hickox is slightly more expansive and gripping than Alwyn.

Symphony 5: both Alwyn and Hickox give fine performances with Hickox a bit weightier and more cogent.

So, on balance Hickox is the No.1 choice and personally I don't think that the Naxos cycle changes this even though I enjoy those recordings too and love the combination of symphonies 2,5 and Lyra Angelica on the first release of that cycle. Frankly all three cycles are excellent but I would go for the Hickox cycle. I would not, however, want to be without Alwyn's own recording of Symphony 2 (my first experience of the composer's music on a Lyrita LP) and the Lyrita CD featuring symphonies 2,3 and 5 on a single CD is a winner. Unlike John I like historical recordings and was delighted to find a historic CD (Dutton/Barbirolli Society) of Barbirolli (the dedicatee of Symphony 1) conducting symphonies 1 and 2 complete with old BBC radio announcements (great photo of Alwyn and his record player on the cover). There is a biography of Alwyn called 'The Innumerable Dance' by Adrian Wright. It was well reviewed although I haven't read it yet. This review is interesting!

http://www.john-robert-brown.com/the-innumerable-dance.htm

[asin]B000BRPXNG[/asin]





Quote from: Scion7 on April 14, 2016, 07:04:33 PM
All three are very fine - I can't really choose one over the other.
For authenticity, the ones on Lyrita under the Composer Himself.  :)

Naxos may have a slightly better sound sonically, but it won't be much as the Chandos sounds really good, too.

Thanks guys. 8) It looks like I didn't misremember when I said Hickox was my favorite. Two of my favorite Alwyn works are Pastoral Fantasia and Lyrica Angelica.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Scion7 on April 15, 2016, 03:38:33 AM
Of the many very fine chamber works, the first movement of the Sonatina for Violin and Piano (1933) is sure to bring a smile to anyone that is not sitting around dressed like Genghiz Khan, snorting cocaine (to nick a phrase from another listener) and refusing to listen to anything beyond Stockhausen.

And thankfully Alwyn was not able to get his revisionist, self-destructive mits on the score for this and burn it like he did with so many other early works ...
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 15, 2016, 03:53:10 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 15, 2016, 03:30:10 AM
Thanks guys. 8) It looks like I didn't misremember when I said Hickox was my favorite. Two of my favorite Alwyn works are Pastoral Fantasia and Lyrica Angelica.
I assume that you have this great disc John:
[asin]B000000APK[/asin]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 15, 2016, 04:01:53 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on April 15, 2016, 03:38:33 AM
Of the many very fine chamber works, the first movement of the Sonatina for Violin and Piano (1933) is sure to bring a smile to anyone that is not sitting around dressed like Genghiz Khan, snorting cocaine and refusing to listen to anything beyond Stockhausen.

And thankfully Alwyn was not able to get his revisionist, self-destructive mits on the score for this and burn it like he did with so many other early works ...
Thanks very much for the recommendation. I've just ordered this for under £2.00:
[asin]B000REGIW8[/asin]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on April 15, 2016, 03:02:28 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 15, 2016, 03:53:10 AM
I assume that you have this great disc John:
[asin]B000000APK[/asin]

Yep, that's a great recording indeed, Jeffrey.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Scion7 on April 15, 2016, 04:58:07 PM
(http://s23.postimg.org/eh30c4sp7/Thesis.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn - 'Fallen Idol'
Post by: Scion7 on April 17, 2016, 09:47:14 AM
(http://s23.postimg.org/u84mjkwzf/creditcard_Fallen_Idol.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 23, 2016, 12:44:02 AM
Have discovered how good Alwyn's Violin Concerto is. Not sure why I never listened to it before. Actually I have just read through the thread and note that I had listened to it before ( ::)) thanks to John's (MI) recommendation but for some reason the Naxos CD has made an even greater impression on me. A beautiful and soulful lyrical work from 1937-39. It was never performed live and was rejected by the BBC (typical!) I think that it is his finest concerto alongside Lyra Angelica. There is a recording on Chandos too (the one I listened to before) but this is a fine CD.
[asin]B004OZRPIM[/asin]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on April 23, 2016, 05:32:06 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 23, 2016, 12:44:02 AM
Have discovered how good Alwyn's Violin Concerto is. Not sure why I never listened to it before. Actually I have just read through the thread and note that I had listened to it before ( ::)) thanks to John's (MI) recommendation but for some reason the Naxos CD has made an even greater impression on me. A beautiful and soulful lyrical work from 1937-39. It was never performed live and was rejected by the BBC (typical!) I think that it is his finest concerto alongside Lyra Angelica. There is a recording on Chandos too (the one I listened to before) but this is a fine CD.
[asin]B004OZRPIM[/asin]

It's funny you mentioned this recording, Jeffrey, because it's the ONLY one I'm missing from the Lloyd-Jones series. Your enthusiasm has certainly sparked my own interest. Thanks!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on April 23, 2016, 10:21:08 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 23, 2016, 05:32:06 AM
It's funny you mentioned this recording, Jeffrey, because it's the ONLY one I'm missing from the Lloyd-Jones series. Your enthusiasm has certainly sparked my own interest. Thanks!
I think you'd enjoy it John. The Miss Julie Suite is worthwhile too. One of my most listened to CDs at the moment.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on April 23, 2016, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 23, 2016, 10:21:08 AM
I think you'd enjoy it John. The Miss Julie Suite is worthwhile too. One of my most listened to CDs at the moment.

Great to hear, Jeffrey. 8)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on July 18, 2016, 05:50:53 PM
I'm going to try and promote Alwyn's music for awhile if not directly than indirectly through the composer's photo as my avatar. ;) I think he's shamefully neglected even though there are a good many recordings of his music available now. Works that spring immediately to mind as being favorites: Symphonies 2 & 3, Lyra Angelica, Pastoral Fantasia, and the Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 18, 2016, 06:49:47 PM
I have not heard any Alwyn before. I do love British music (a LOT) and I am fanatical about Helen Grime, Birtwistle, Knussen, Ferneyhough and Adès especially.....where should I start with Alwyn?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on July 18, 2016, 07:01:30 PM
Quote from: jessop on July 18, 2016, 06:49:47 PM
I have not heard any Alwyn before. I do love British music (a LOT) and I am fanatical about Helen Grime, Birtwistle, Knussen, Ferneyhough and Adès especially.....where should I start with Alwyn?

Check out Lyra Angelica, which is his 'harp concerto'. A gorgeous piece and one of my favorite pieces of music. Bear in mind that Alwyn is much more conservative than those composers you listed. I'd say he's a Modernist, but on the more friendly side of that coin. :)


Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 18, 2016, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 18, 2016, 07:01:30 PM
Check out Lyra Angelica, which is his 'harp concerto'. A gorgeous piece and one of my favorite pieces of music. Bear in mind that Alwyn is much more conservative than those composers you listed. I'd say he's a Modernist, but on the more friendly side of that coin. :)




Thank you. I will check this piece out. :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2016, 12:56:29 AM
All the symphonies are good - No.2 possibly the best and Alwyn's own favourite. I have just discovered his neglected Violin Concerto which is a marvellous and shame on the BBC for rejecting it. Also don't forget his magnificent film score for 'Odd Man Out'.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 19, 2016, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 19, 2016, 12:56:29 AM
All the symphonies are good - No.2 possibly the best and Alwyn's own favourite. I have just discovered his neglected Violin Concerto which is a marvellous and shame on the BBC for rejecting it. Also don't forget his magnificent film score for 'Odd Man Out'.
Thanks for this. I barely listen to film scores as I find most film scores rather pointless and derivative when taken away from the film itself, but sometimes there are some brilliantly original scores around. I will check it out in due time. :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 19, 2016, 01:15:38 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 18, 2016, 05:50:53 PM
I'm going to try and promote Alwyn's music for awhile if not directly than indirectly through the composer's photo as my avatar. ;) I think he's shamefully neglected even though there are a good many recordings of his music available now. Works that spring immediately to mind as being favorites: Symphonies 2 & 3, Lyra Angelica, Pastoral Fantasia, and the Violin Concerto.
Actually I really need to study some harp music. I have been asked to compose a piece for harp and percussion by a friend who adores playing new music. Unfortunately I am a complete n00b at anything harp...................................
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2016, 03:49:08 AM
Quote from: jessop on July 19, 2016, 01:10:32 AM
Thanks for this. I barely listen to film scores as I find most film scores rather pointless and derivative when taken away from the film itself, but sometimes there are some brilliantly original scores around. I will check it out in due time. :)
Odd Man Out is, to me, quite symphonic and Symphony 1 has echoes of Alwyn's film scores but I love both of these works
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Scion7 on July 21, 2016, 04:24:33 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 19, 2016, 03:49:08 AM
Odd Man Out is, to me, quite symphonic ...

Yes, by far his best score.  Great movie, too!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on July 21, 2016, 06:19:48 PM
Quote from: jessop on July 19, 2016, 01:15:38 AM
Actually I really need to study some harp music. I have been asked to compose a piece for harp and percussion by a friend who adores playing new music. Unfortunately I am a complete n00b at anything harp...................................

Study the harp parts to Debussy's Sonata for Flute, Viola, and Harp. Plenty of good stuff there.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on July 21, 2016, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 21, 2016, 06:19:48 PM
Study the harp parts to Debussy's Sonata for Flute, Viola, and Harp. Plenty of good stuff there.
Thanks, I will certainly be looking at that in the future. For now, I am looking at things by possibly the best composer for all things harp: Carlos Salzedo.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 17, 2017, 02:16:05 PM
Yesterday I knew the true meaning of beauty, at least one of the most outstanding examples of it: Lyra Angelica

I can't believe that a human being could compose such a heavenly piece of art. Alwyn had to be inspired by beings from another astral plane  :o

This splendid concerto is a milestone in music IMHO. It's like a weave of diaphanous clouds made by angels and cherubs.

I think I will not recover from this experience in a long time (maybe never).

Is there another work by Alwyn in that same style?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on May 17, 2017, 07:52:40 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 17, 2017, 02:16:05 PM
Yesterday I knew the true meaning of beauty, at least one of the most outstanding examples of it: Lyra Angelica

I can't believe that a human being could compose such a heavenly piece of art. Alwyn had to be inspired by beings from another astral plane  :o

This splendid concerto is a milestone in music IMHO. It's like a weave of diaphanous clouds made by angels and cherubs.

I think I will not recover from this experience in a long time (maybe never).

Is there another work by Alwyn in that same style?

Oh yes, Lyra Angelica is a gorgeous piece. Another work of his in a similar vein? You might want to try to Pastoral Fantasia.

https://www.youtube.com/v/MxzAjW0inQs
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 18, 2017, 05:08:24 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 17, 2017, 02:16:05 PM
Yesterday I knew the true meaning of beauty, at least one of the most outstanding examples of it: Lyra Angelica

I can't believe that a human being could compose such a heavenly piece of art. Alwyn had to be inspired by beings from another astral plane  :o

This splendid concerto is a milestone in music IMHO. It's like a weave of diaphanous clouds made by angels and cherubs.

I think I will not recover from this experience in a long time (maybe never).

Is there another work by Alwyn in that same style?

At the end of his life Alwyn's wife Mary asked him what worked he'd most like to be remembered by and it was 'Lyra Angelica'. His own favourite of his Symphonies was No.2 which is my own favourite of his works. John's (MI's) suggestion above is, I agree, the closest of Alwyn's works to Lyra Angelica and I've heard it described as Alwyn's 'Swan of Tuonela'.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 18, 2017, 08:03:28 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 18, 2017, 05:08:24 AM
At the end of his life Alwyn's wife Mary asked him what worked he'd most like to be remembered by and it was 'Lyra Angelica'. His own favourite of his Symphonies was No.2 which is my own favourite of his works. John's (MI's) suggestion above is, I agree, the closest of Alwyn's works to Lyra Angelica and I've heard it described as Alwyn's 'Swan of Tuonela'.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 17, 2017, 07:52:40 PM
Oh yes, Lyra Angelica is a gorgeous piece. Another work of his in a similar vein? You might want to try to Pastoral Fantasia.

https://www.youtube.com/v/MxzAjW0inQs

Many thanks for your responses! I'm gonna hear it
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 18, 2017, 08:28:01 PM
Pastoral Fantasia is lovely, it's more earthly than Lyra Angelica. In some fragments it reminded me of The Lark Ascending.

This composer is so interesting. I'm gonna explore more of his music. I think I will get big surprises.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2017, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 18, 2017, 08:28:01 PM
Pastoral Fantasia is lovely, it's more earthly than Lyra Angelica. In some fragments it reminded me of The Lark Ascending.

This composer is so interesting. I'm gonna explore more of his music. I think I will get big surprises.

Well, let's be fair, Lyra Angelica is a unique work and I was struggling a bit when you asked for a work that was similar to it. Alwyn's style varies from work to work but he does have a musical voice of his own. I wouldn't say he's anywhere near a favorite of mine, but he's written some excellent music.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 18, 2017, 09:22:03 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2017, 08:32:10 PM
Well, let's be fair, Lyra Angelica is a unique work and I was struggling a bit when you asked for a work that was similar to it. Alwyn's style varies from work to work but he does have a musical voice of his own. I wouldn't say he's anywhere near a favorite of mine, but he's written some excellent music.

It's true: Lyra Angelica is utterly phenomenal. On the other hand, I've seen some good comments about his symphonies and the film score 'Odd Man Out'. Perhaps I'll listen to them first when I can.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 18, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 18, 2017, 09:22:03 PM
It's true: Lyra Angelica is utterly phenomenal. On the other hand, I've seen some good comments about his symphonies and the film score 'Odd Man Out'. Perhaps I'll listen to them first when I can.
Actually I think that the 'Swan of Tuonela' comment above referers to 'Autumn Legend' (on the CD recommended by John/MI) rather than the eloquent Pastoral Fantasia, so you need to hear that one too. 'Odd Man Out' is a fine score.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on May 19, 2017, 12:32:59 AM
The symphonies are awesome! No. 5 is somewhat spicier than the other 4, but it's a wonderful condensing of the 4-movement symphonic form into a single 14-minute movement.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2017, 06:22:03 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on May 19, 2017, 12:32:59 AM
The symphonies are awesome! No. 5 is somewhat spicier than the other 4, but it's a wonderful condensing of the 4-movement symphonic form into a single 14-minute movement.
Yes, I very much agree.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 19, 2017, 07:35:09 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 18, 2017, 09:56:13 PM
Actually I think that the 'Swan of Tuonela' comment above referers to 'Autumn Legend' (on the CD recommended by John/MI) rather than the eloquent Pastoral Fantasia, so you need to hear that one too. 'Odd Man Out' is a fine score.

Quote from: Maestro267 on May 19, 2017, 12:32:59 AM
The symphonies are awesome! No. 5 is somewhat spicier than the other 4, but it's a wonderful condensing of the 4-movement symphonic form into a single 14-minute movement.

Perfect! All that sounds attractive to me
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2017, 11:08:42 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 19, 2017, 07:35:09 PM
Perfect! All that sounds attractive to me
It was hearing Alwyn conduct Symphony 5 on the radio, presumably in the late 1970s which encouraged me to write to him to say how much I liked his music. He sent a very charming reply. There is a recent biography 'The innumerable Dance'.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: 71 dB on May 20, 2017, 02:10:57 PM
I have been listening to Alwyn on Spotify. This is the first time I explore his music. Pretty pleasant experience. Alwyn has a nice velvet-y feel in his music and it's easy to listen, but not banal or too simple. It's just easy to follow. I ordered the Naxos discs of symphonies 2 & 5 + Harp Concerto, all works that I liked on Spotify.

I like Bax's chamber music for Harp and Alwyn's Harp Concerto was very nice. Seems like British composers know how to compose for harp!  0:)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 21, 2017, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 20, 2017, 02:10:57 PM
I have been listening to Alwyn on Spotify. This is the first time I explore his music. Pretty pleasant experience. Alwyn has a nice velvet-y feel in his music and it's easy to listen, but not banal or too simple. It's just easy to follow. I ordered the Naxos discs of symphonies 2 & 5 + Harp Concerto, all works that I liked on Spotify.

I like Bax's chamber music for Harp and Alwyn's Harp Concerto was very nice. Seems like British composers know how to compose for harp!  0:)
I agree. Bax's Harp Quintet is by far my favourite of his chamber works - a lovely, tuneful score.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: 71 dB on May 21, 2017, 10:43:36 AM
Now listening to Alwyn's String Quartets (Maggini Quartet) on Spotify.

Quote from: vandermolen on May 21, 2017, 10:34:10 AM
I agree. Bax's Harp Quintet is by far my favourite of his chamber works - a lovely, tuneful score.

I think I'll limit* my Bax collection to the two Naxos discs I have (Chamber music for Harp and the 6th symphony)

____________________________________
* I really need limits to mentally survive the abundance of classic music!

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 21, 2017, 09:19:01 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 21, 2017, 10:43:36 AM
Now listening to Alwyn's String Quartets (Maggini Quartet) on Spotify.

I think I'll limit* my Bax collection to the two Naxos discs I have (Chamber music for Harp and the 6th symphony)

____________________________________
* I really need limits to mentally survive the abundance of classic music!

You need to hear symphony 3 as well.  >:D   8)

Alwyn tended to get recommended to those who liked Bax's music - rightly so I think, although some find Alwyn's music less diffuse.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 12:17:47 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 21, 2017, 09:19:01 PM
You need to hear symphony 3 as well.  >:D   8)

Alwyn tended to get recommended to those who liked Bax's music - rightly so I think, although some find Alwyn's music less diffuse.

I listened to all 5 symphonies. The first one is weaker and the other 4 stronger imo.

I didn't find the String Quartets very interesting. Orchestral music is clearly Alwyn's forte. However, I did found Alwyn's Conversations interesting and good.

Of Alwyn and Bax I think I prefer Alwyn.

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2017, 04:08:54 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 12:17:47 AM
I listened to all 5 symphonies. The first one is weaker and the other 4 stronger imo.

I didn't find the String Quartets very interesting. Orchestral music is clearly Alwyn's forte. However, I did found Alwyn's Conversations interesting and good.

Of Alwyn and Bax I think I prefer Alwyn.
Sorry, I meant Bax's Third Symphony. I like all those by Alwyn including No.1 which was criticised for it's 'film-like' thematic material but that is no problem for me. I especially like the historic CD with Barbirolli conducting Alwyn's 1st and 2nd symphonies (he also recorded Bax's Third Symphony in a legendary performance).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 04:34:38 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2017, 04:08:54 AM
Sorry, I meant Bax's Third Symphony. I like all those by Alwyn including No.1 which was criticised for it's 'film-like' thematic material but that is no problem for me. I especially like the historic CD with Barbirolli conducting Alwyn's 1st and 2nd symphonies (he also recorded Bax's Third Symphony in a legendary performance).

I find all Alwyn's orchestral music "film-like" and that's not a problem at all. I just found the first symphony a bit dull compared to the rest.

I did listen to all 7 Bax symphonies, was it half a year ago, on Spotify and number 6 was my favorite by far so I bought that to my collection.  :)

At this point I have no plans to expand my Bax collection beyond the 2 Naxos discs I have (Chamber music for harp & Symphony 6). I'm cherry-picking hard!  ;)

To me Alwyn is more interesting composer than Bax, so I keep exploring him more, but soon I may move on to Bliss perhaps?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2017, 04:40:15 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 04:34:38 AM
I find all Alwyn's orchestral music "film-like" and that's not a problem at all. I just found the first symphony a bit dull compared to the rest.

I did listen to all 7 Bax symphonies, was it half a year ago, on Spotify and number 6 was my favorite by far so I bought that to my collection.  :)

At this point I have no plans to expand my Bax collection beyond the 2 Naxos discs I have (Chamber music for harp & Symphony 6). I'm cherry-picking hard!  ;)

To me Alwyn is more interesting composer than Bax, so I keep exploring him more, but soon I may move on to Bliss perhaps?
Bliss is not a 'great composer' but I find myself often returning to his music. His late-romantic Piano Concerto is good and the choral symphony 'Morning Heroes' and much else besides. For chamber music I'd recommend his lovely Oboe Quintet which you can get on Naxos.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on May 22, 2017, 06:07:13 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2017, 04:40:15 AM
Bliss is not a 'great composer'

Oh yes he is! And so is Alwyn, and so is Bax, and so is everyone who has a thread here. The canon of great composers is far more vast than the marketing men, critics and concert hall programmers would have you believe.

Meanwhile, I'm surprised no one's mentioned Walton yet with regards to an Alwyn similarity.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 06:13:00 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2017, 04:40:15 AM
Bliss is not a 'great composer'

So, ignorance is bliss?  :D

Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2017, 04:40:15 AMbut I find myself often returning to his music. His late-romantic Piano Concerto is good and the choral symphony 'Morning Heroes' and much else besides. For chamber music I'd recommend his lovely Oboe Quintet which you can get on Naxos.

Okay, these are welcome recommendation for the day I start to check out Bliss, thanks! Oboe Quintet sounds attractive!  ;)

Quote from: Maestro267 on May 22, 2017, 06:07:13 AM
Oh yes he is! And so is Alwyn, and so is Bax, and so is everyone who has a thread here. The canon of great composers is far more vast than the marketing men, critics and concert hall programmers would have you believe.


That's true. If it weren't, we would be listening to Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, ... only.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 11:34:51 AM
Listening to Alwyn's piano music on Spotify (Volume 2 on Naxos).
I didn't have high expectations, but to my surprise Alwyn's piano music works for me!
This is like listening to a "British" Granados.  :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2017, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: Maestro267 on May 22, 2017, 06:07:13 AM
Oh yes he is! And so is Alwyn, and so is Bax, and so is everyone who has a thread here. The canon of great composers is far more vast than the marketing men, critics and concert hall programmers would have you believe.

Meanwhile, I'm surprised no one's mentioned Walton yet with regards to an Alwyn similarity.

Isn't this the 'Good Music Group' rather than the 'Great Music Group?'  8)

There are great moments in Bliss I agree and I like his music very much. Walton's First Symphony is a great piece of music IMHO.

Yes, Bliss's Oboe Quintet is wonderful, especially in the version performed by the Melos Ensemble.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on May 23, 2017, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 06:13:00 AM
That's true. If it weren't, we would be listening to Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, ... only.

And what an incredibly dull and boring place that would be.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: JohnP on May 24, 2017, 07:38:27 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 22, 2017, 04:34:38 AM
I find all Alwyn's orchestral music "film-like" and that's not a problem at all. I just found the first symphony a bit dull compared to the rest.

I did listen to all 7 Bax symphonies, was it half a year ago, on Spotify and number 6 was my favorite by far so I bought that to my collection.  :)

At this point I have no plans to expand my Bax collection beyond the 2 Naxos discs I have (Chamber music for harp & Symphony 6). I'm cherry-picking hard!  ;)

To me Alwyn is more interesting composer than Bax, so I keep exploring him more, but soon I may move on to Bliss perhaps?


Hi 71dB

Hi

Have you tried the symphonies of Robert Simpson or Graham Whettam?

Re Alwyn, Steve Schwartz at Classical Net posits his string trio and clarinet sonatas as masterpieces

http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/n/nxs72425a.php

Similarly his violin concerto which he compares to Elgars' and his opera Miss Julie, based on Strindberg

http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/n/nxs70705a.php
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 24, 2017, 09:09:51 AM
Alwyn's Violin Concerto is one of his best works I think.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: 71 dB on May 24, 2017, 09:10:49 AM
Quote from: JohnP on May 24, 2017, 07:38:27 AM
Have you tried the symphonies of Robert Simpson or Graham Whettam?

No, I haven't.  :-\

Quote from: JohnP on May 24, 2017, 07:38:27 AMRe Alwyn, Steve Schwartz at Classical Net posits his string trio and clarinet sonatas as masterpieces

http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/n/nxs72425a.php

Similarly his violin concerto which he compares to Elgars' and his opera Miss Julie, based on Strindberg

http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/n/nxs70705a.php

Alwyn's Violin Concerto is good stuff, but for us Elgarians hardly even close to that of Elgar.  ;)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2017, 01:39:07 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 24, 2017, 09:10:49 AM
No, I haven't.  :-\

Alwyn's Violin Concerto is good stuff, but for us Elgarians hardly even close to that of Elgar.  ;)

I'm increasingly of the view that Alwyn's VC is one of his greatest scores (I know I've said this before) I find myself listening to it a great deal. Both the Chandos and Naxos versions are excellent. The work was totally neglected/rejected in Alwyn's lifetime.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 12, 2018, 05:32:22 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/17ZiXiAqch15ZYuc-38HfDdxE7E=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-12417213-1534867853-2939.jpeg.jpg)

Odd Man Out takes me to a state of important thrill. How terrific this work is! Some of the most aflame French horn writing is found in here. The music is rather touching, impressive. Along with Lyra Angelica, my favorite work by this gentleman.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2018, 12:47:31 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on October 12, 2018, 05:32:22 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/17ZiXiAqch15ZYuc-38HfDdxE7E=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-12417213-1534867853-2939.jpeg.jpg)

Odd Man Out takes me to a state of important thrill. How terrific this work is! Some of the most aflame French horn writing is found in here. The music is rather touching, impressive. Along with Lyra Angelica, my favorite work by this gentleman.
Delighted that you like this Cesar!
I consider 'Odd Man Out' to be one of Alwyn's finest works, alongside the unaccountably neglected Violin Concerto, 'The Magic Island' (after Shakespeare's 'The Tempest'), Lyra Angelica and all the symphonies, but especially nos 1 and 2. The Prelude to Odd Man Out - a kind of doomed processional which always appeals to me - is reminiscent of 'The Road to Calvary' from Miklos Rozsa's wonderful score for 'Ben-Hur'.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 14, 2018, 01:48:53 AM
I like all the Alwyn Symphonies but especially No.3 which is powerfully coupled on Chandos with the Violin Concerto.  Both very impressive works.....

[asin]B001MV91BK[/asin]

marketplace copies on Amazon UK are very cheap at the moment I see.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2018, 09:06:40 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 14, 2018, 01:48:53 AM
I like all the Alwyn Symphonies but especially No.3 which is powerfully coupled on Chandos with the Violin Concerto.  Both very impressive works.....

[asin]B001MV91BK[/asin]

marketplace copies on Amazon UK are very cheap at the moment I see.

That is a great CD which introduced me to the lovely VC. John Ireland thought that Alwyn's 3rd Symphony was the best British symphony since Elgar. I don't agree as it leaves out Bax, VW and Walton (not to mention Moeran) but it is still a fine symphony.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on October 03, 2019, 10:10:12 AM
A rare performance of Alwyn's opera Miss Julie is taking place this evening at London's Barbican Hall. From photos I've seen on Twitter it looks like it's a semi-staged performance, but it's still significant. Even more significant and perhaps more relevant for this thread is that it will be broadcast on BBC Radio 3 this Saturday evening.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: André on October 03, 2019, 01:31:25 PM
I still haven't opened that Lyrita set of Miss Julie  ::). I'm slowly catching up on my opera backlog though, so hopefully I will get to hear it before year end  :P
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 08, 2019, 06:57:30 AM
On these days I've listened to all the releases of his film music on Chandos. This gentleman wrote some truly inspired and inspiring scores! Later I'll post further comments about them. I heartily recommend them to any fan of this composer.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 08, 2019, 08:29:07 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on October 08, 2019, 06:57:30 AM
On these days I've listened to all the releases of his film music on Chandos. This gentleman wrote some truly inspired and inspiring scores! Later I'll post further comments about them. I heartily recommend them to any fan of this composer.

Other that 'Odd Man Out' which are your favourites Cesar? I have volumes 1 and 2 but not 3.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SymphonicAddict on October 09, 2019, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 08, 2019, 08:29:07 AM
Other that 'Odd Man Out' which are your favourites Cesar? I have volumes 1 and 2 but not 3.

According to my notes, these have been of great enjoyment for me (either suites or extracts from the whole scores):

They Flew Alone
Desert Victory
On Approval
Calypso from 'The Rake's Progress'
The Fallen Idol
The History of Mr. Polly
The Crimson Pirate
The Master of Ballantrae
Geordie
The Black Tent
Swiss Family Robinson
In Search of the Castaways
The Running Man

These ones were not as good as the previous ones:

Shake Hands with the Devil
The Winslow Boy
State Secret
The Magic Box
Manchester Suite
Penn of Pennsylvania

And there are 4 volumes of his film music on Chandos, I think all of them are more than good.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 10, 2019, 10:58:57 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on October 09, 2019, 09:53:58 AM
According to my notes, these have been of great enjoyment for me (either suites or extracts from the whole scores):

They Flew Alone
Desert Victory
On Approval
Calypso from 'The Rake's Progress'
The Fallen Idol
The History of Mr. Polly
The Crimson Pirate
The Master of Ballantrae
Geordie
The Black Tent
Swiss Family Robinson
In Search of the Castaways
The Running Man

These ones were not as good as the previous ones:

Shake Hands with the Devil
The Winslow Boy
State Secret
The Magic Box
Manchester Suite
Penn of Pennsylvania

And there are 4 volumes of his film music on Chandos, I think all of them are more than good.
Thanks very much Cesar. I certainly remember enjoying 'Desert Victory'.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on October 18, 2019, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on October 03, 2019, 10:10:12 AM
A rare performance of Alwyn's opera Miss Julie is taking place this evening at London's Barbican Hall. From photos I've seen on Twitter it looks like it's a semi-staged performance, but it's still significant. Even more significant and perhaps more relevant for this thread is that it will be broadcast on BBC Radio 3 this Saturday evening.

Great to know! Miss Julie is a fantastic opera, intensely lyrical and dramatic. I've seen it described as 'neo-Puccinian', a quite apt descriptor.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Christo on December 03, 2019, 05:00:40 AM
Quote from: kyjo on October 18, 2019, 08:44:49 AM
Great to know! Miss Julie is a fantastic opera, intensely lyrical and dramatic. I've seen it described as 'neo-Puccinian', a quite apt descriptor.
Didn't know one could get 'sweet sugar'.  ???
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on December 03, 2019, 09:05:17 AM
Quote from: Christo on December 03, 2019, 05:00:40 AM
Didn't know one could get 'sweet sugar'.  ???

Huh? ;)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Christo on December 03, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: kyjo on December 03, 2019, 09:05:17 AM
Huh? ;) *]

*] i.e. sweetened Puccini - I was thinking of the even sweeter Zuccherini - but I don't think Alwyn was capable of such a thing, being the fine composer that he always was.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on December 06, 2019, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: Christo on December 03, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
*] i.e. sweetened Puccini - I was thinking of the even sweeter Zuccherini - but I don't think Alwyn was capable of such a thing, being the fine composer that he always was.

By "neo-Puccinian" I merely meant that the music resembles an "updated" version of Puccini's dramatic lyricism. Alwyn, of course, has a compelling individual voice with recognizably 20th century harmonies marred to a Romantic concept of drama and emotion. Nothing "over-sweet" about it! :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Papy Oli on January 23, 2020, 06:11:47 AM
A new Lyrita release in March :

[asin]B082JQ3D5D[/asin]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 23, 2020, 06:46:43 AM
Quote from: Papy Oli on January 23, 2020, 06:11:47 AM
A new Lyrita release in March :

[asin]B082JQ3D5D[/asin]
Excellent!
Thanks for letting us know Olivier.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 24, 2020, 09:30:29 AM
Thanks Olivier for this. Only string quartets 4 and 5 would be missing to have his whole cycle recorded.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Klaatu on January 26, 2020, 07:30:40 AM
Just discovered on YouTube, this fine live performance of Alwyn's stunningly beautiful "Lyra Angelica":

https://youtu.be/3WI1bzaP_Ys
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Klaatu on January 26, 2020, 07:34:24 AM
......and this live performance of Alwyn's other beautiful harp composition, the solo piece "Crepuscule". (In the composer's words, "The evocation of a frosty winter night".)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOgiKHhNxog
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2020, 02:08:06 PM
Quote from: Klaatu on January 26, 2020, 07:30:40 AM
Just discovered on YouTube, this fine live performance of Alwyn's stunningly beautiful "Lyra Angelica":

https://youtu.be/3WI1bzaP_Ys

Stunningly beautiful indeed! Thanks for sharing it. A pity that it's only the 1st movement.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 26, 2020, 02:16:20 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2020, 02:08:06 PM
Stunningly beautiful indeed! Thanks for sharing it. A pity that it's only the 1st movement.

It's available in expensively on this fine collection of Alwyn's music:
(//)

PS I see from WAYLTN thread that you have this disc! Cesar. I like all three works very much.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2020, 03:06:41 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 26, 2020, 02:16:20 PM
It's available in expensively on this fine collection of Alwyn's music:
(//)

PS I see from WAYLTN thread that you have this disc! Cesar. I like all three works very much.

Yes, I have them, Jeffrey, including those on Chandos. Really stupendous works. Alwyn is one of my very favorites.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2020, 03:50:54 PM
I tend to consider his symphonies 2, 3 and 5 as his finest, and curiously being the most serious and intense. 1 and 4 have a more amiable mood but they're not as gripping as the former.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 26, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2020, 03:50:54 PM
I tend to consider his symphonies 2, 3 and 5 as his finest, and curiously being the most serious and intense. 1 and 4 have a more amiable mood but they're not as gripping as the former.
Playing No.3 (Hickox) at the moment. The Violin Concerto was a major discovery for me in the last couple of years. I wish that the Chandos 2 CD set of British Violin concertos performed by Lydia Mordkovitch had included it rather than the far less interesting one by Bax for example.
I like all of Alwyn's symphonies but 2,3 and 5 are especially strong. I also like No.1 (and 4 ::)). Odd Man Out (film score) is possibly the work that I play most often by Alwyn along with the Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: relm1 on January 27, 2020, 06:24:14 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 26, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Playing No.3 (Hickox) at the moment. The Violin Concerto was a major discovery for me in the last couple of years. I wish that the Chandos 2 CD set of British Violin concertos performed by Lydia Mordkovitch had included it rather than the far less interesting one by Bax for example.
I like all of Alwyn's symphonies but 2,3 and 5 are especially strong. I also like No.1 (and 4 ::)). Odd Man Out (film score) is possibly the work that I play most often by Alwyn along with the Violin Concerto.

I think I remember also enjoying his piano concerto (s?) and it seems there isn't much from him I don't enjoy.  We seem to have the same musical tastes, vandermolen.  From now on, we shall be known as vanderlm1. 
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 27, 2020, 06:35:27 AM
Quote from: relm1 on January 27, 2020, 06:24:14 AM
I think I remember also enjoying his piano concerto (s?) and it seems there isn't much from him I don't enjoy.  We seem to have the same musical tastes, vandermolen.  From now on, we shall be known as vanderlm1.
Excellent idea!  ;)
He wrote two piano concertos - you can get them together on one Chandos or Naxos CD or coupled with symphonies 1 and 5 I think. I recall enjoying them but don't think they are as memorable as the beautiful Violin Concerto. I must listen to them again.
[/img]
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on January 27, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
It's a bit of a shame the Piano Concertos are on the short side. Good job the Violin Concerto is a bit more weighty.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Klaatu on January 27, 2020, 07:32:30 AM
Symphony 5 is a wonderful score, from the "ghoulish rushing sound" (Peter Pirie's description) that opens the symphony, to the haunting final section with its tolling bells, impassioned strings and ambivalent, major/minor close.

The atmosphere of that concluding section very much reminds me of "Saturn" from Holst's Planets Suite - the "bringer of old age" and mortality; Alwyn's inspiration for No. 5 was the poem Hydriotaphia by Sir Thomas Browne, with its famous lines

Man is a Noble Animal, splendid in ashes, and pompous in the grave.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 27, 2020, 02:04:33 PM
Quote from: Klaatu on January 27, 2020, 07:32:30 AM
Symphony 5 is a wonderful score, from the "ghoulish rushing sound" (Peter Pirie's description) that opens the symphony, to the haunting final section with its tolling bells, impassioned strings and ambivalent, major/minor close.

The atmosphere of that concluding section very much reminds me of "Saturn" from Holst's Planets Suite - the "bringer of old age" and mortality; Alwyn's inspiration for No. 5 was the poem Hydriotaphia by Sir Thomas Browne, with its famous lines

Man is a Noble Animal, splendid in ashes, and pompous in the grave.

I heard Alwyn conduct it on the radio when I was on holiday in the Yorkshire Moors many decades ago. I wrote to him (c/o Lyrita I guess) saying how much I'd enjoyed the work and had a very nice reply from him.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: relm1 on January 27, 2020, 05:30:31 PM
Quote from: Maestro267 on January 27, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
It's a bit of a shame the Piano Concertos are on the short side. Good job the Violin Concerto is a bit more weighty.

But like Prokofiev's No. 1, I felt his short Piano Concerto's felt longer than they were...it's hard to explain.  But sometimes short is good too.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2020, 01:23:12 AM
Alwyn's Prelude for the film 'Odd Man Out' (arranged Christopher Palmer). This is actually one of my favourites works by Alwyn, much as I love the symphonies, the Violin Concerto, Lyra Angelica, Elizabethan Dances and The Magic Island etcetera. and should be heard by any Alwyn fan:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EwXCsS85OXY
(//)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Figaro on October 04, 2020, 09:00:46 AM
I am exploring Alwyn at the moment - I have the Symphonies and string quartets on naxos - and whilst I don't find anything to dislike, so far I can't honestly say I've heard much in the way of a signature "sound" or style which is easy to recognise (like with say Robert Simpson or Malcolm Arnold, both composers who I actually don't like as much as Alwyn), or anything which I can say is particularly typical of him or that he does better than anyone else. His sound seems to be what I consider the generic mid-century British tonal modernism - nothing that the likes of Tippett or Daniel Jones didn't do better.

Am I missing something or is my initial judgement correct - that his music is well crafted and inoffensive but not particularly distinctive or memorable?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on October 04, 2020, 09:42:04 AM
You're probably not wrong, but when I really fancy listening to some Alwyn, nothing quite beats Alwyn for that.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Klaze on October 04, 2020, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: Figaro on October 04, 2020, 09:00:46 AM
I am exploring Alwyn at the moment - I have the Symphonies and string quartets on naxos - and whilst I don't find anything to dislike, so far I can't honestly say I've heard much in the way of a signature "sound" or style which is easy to recognise (like with say Robert Simpson or Malcolm Arnold, both composers who I actually don't like as much as Alwyn), or anything which I can say is particularly typical of him or that he does better than anyone else. His sound seems to be what I consider the generic mid-century British tonal modernism - nothing that the likes of Tippett or Daniel Jones didn't do better.

Am I missing something or is my initial judgement correct - that his music is well crafted and inoffensive but not particularly distinctive or memorable?

In my opinion, no you aren't missing anything. I bought a bunch of recommended recordings but quickly sold them/gave them away. As you say, too generic. I find the days are usually too short to listen to Alwyn.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Daverz on October 04, 2020, 10:42:56 PM
Quote from: Figaro on October 04, 2020, 09:00:46 AM
Am I missing something

I can only recommend three favorite works: the Symphony No. 4, the Concerto Grosso No. 1, the Violin Concerto, and Lyra Angelica.  If none of those grab you, you have my official permission to move on.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Figaro on October 04, 2020, 11:40:24 PM
That's four works... I'll give s4 and the Lyra Angelica another go today.

It's not so much that it doesn't grab me - I can tell it's good music - just that I haven't yet been able to identify a signature style or point of difference that says "This is an Alwyn composition". Would someone who's a big fan be able to suggest something for me to listen out for?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Figaro on October 05, 2020, 12:26:45 AM
Lyra Angelica is lovely and would be a lot better known if it were by Ravel or Poulenc. Probably as good as any harp concerto out there, which isn't admittedly a crowded field. But I suppose that's my point - I struggle to say how it sounds like Alwyn more than like Ravel, just as I struggle to say how the symphonies sound more like Alwyn than late Vaughan Williams, or Malcolm Arnold.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 05, 2020, 12:36:40 AM
Actually the Prelude to 'Odd Man Out' is one of my favourite works by Alwyn. It only lasts 4 mins so I'd give it a listen to before giving up with Alwyn completely.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ToFHLmJpsFo

As to other works my favourites are Symphony No.2, Lyra Angelica and the inexplicably IMO neglected Violin Concerto. Actually I enjoy all the symphonies. John Ireland though that Symphony No.3 was the greatest British symphony since Elgar although I think that's overstating it a bit.

PS

Another short work by Alwyn which I thoroughly enjoy is his atmospheric 'The Magic Island' after Shakespeare's 'The Tempest':
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBMWwnJhtPE
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on October 05, 2020, 06:45:09 AM
Quote from: Daverz on October 04, 2020, 10:42:56 PM
I can only recommend three favorite works: the Symphony No. 4, the Concerto Grosso No. 1, the Violin Concerto, and Lyra Angelica.  If none of those grab you, you have my official permission to move on.

A great selection. I might suggest before moving on give Mrs Alwyn aka Doreen Carwithen a listen. A Chandos CD of her Piano Concerto amongst other pieces is excellent.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 05, 2020, 10:17:51 AM
Quote from: Irons on October 05, 2020, 06:45:09 AM
A great selection. I might suggest before moving on give Mrs Alwyn aka Doreen Carwithen a listen. A Chandos CD of her Piano Concerto amongst other pieces is excellent.
+1
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Daverz on October 05, 2020, 02:41:09 PM
Quote from: Figaro on October 05, 2020, 12:26:45 AM
Lyra Angelica is lovely and would be a lot better known if it were by Ravel or Poulenc. Probably as good as any harp concerto out there, which isn't admittedly a crowded field. But I suppose that's my point - I struggle to say how it sounds like Alwyn more than like Ravel, just as I struggle to say how the symphonies sound more like Alwyn than late Vaughan Williams, or Malcolm Arnold.

It doesn't sound like Ravel to me.  Does this struggle really affect your enjoyment of the music? 

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 05, 2020, 11:22:17 PM
I think that Alwyn has quite a distinct style. Although quite different, the composer that he reminds me of a bit is Bax. I think that because he composed a lot of film music and that works like Symphony No.1 (which I enjoy greatly) sound quite 'filmic' has lead to some disparagement of his concert music. Personally I've never regarded the fact that a symphony, for example, sounds like film music as criticism. Also I don't think that Alwyn sounds like late VW or Arnold.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on October 06, 2020, 04:06:48 AM
Bax sounds far more like Ravel than Alwyn does, to me personally. If anything, Alwyn sounds a bit like Walton to me. Not that comparison with other composers should dissuade anyone from listening to and enjoying Alwyn's music on its own terms.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 06, 2020, 05:23:45 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on October 06, 2020, 04:06:48 AM
Bax sounds far more like Ravel than Alwyn does, to me personally. If anything, Alwyn sounds a bit like Walton to me. Not that comparison with other composers should dissuade anyone from listening to and enjoying Alwyn's music on its own terms.
Yes, I think that you're right about the Alwyn/Walton comparison.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: springrite on October 06, 2020, 05:43:23 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 06, 2020, 05:23:45 AM
Yes, I think that you're right about the Alwyn/Walton comparison.
A slightly less imperialistic-sounding Walton...
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 06, 2020, 06:04:45 AM
Quote from: springrite on October 06, 2020, 05:43:23 AM
A slightly less imperialistic-sounding Walton...
Also true.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on October 06, 2020, 07:11:22 AM
Quote from: springrite on October 06, 2020, 05:43:23 AM
A slightly less imperialistic-sounding Walton...

Made me smile and is actually true.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on October 06, 2020, 08:15:36 PM
I'd say Alwyn is the love-child of Bax and Walton! :D

Although I enjoy Alwyn's music a good deal, I can sympathize with Figaro's view. IMO his music doesn't really have that instantly recognizable stamp that VW, Walton, Britten, Bax, Arnold, Lloyd, and Tippett have. That's, of course, not to say that he didn't write some powerful, beautiful music. My favorites of his are the Symphonies 2 and 3, Lyra Angelica, PC no. 2, VC, and the opera Miss Julie.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on October 07, 2020, 05:20:23 PM
I don't need that a composer has to have a super distinctive voice to find him/her great or enjoyable. I love Alwyn's music. The last works I heard from him were the string quartets, and quite rewarding they are. Not easy music most of them, but eventually they have substance and intrigued me a lot. Other works that are not mentioned yet I like are the 3 Concerti Grossi and the Elizabethan Dances.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on October 07, 2020, 05:21:27 PM
Quote from: kyjo on October 06, 2020, 08:15:36 PM
I'd say Alwyn is the love-child of Bax and Walton! :D

I also hear bits of VW in some works.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on October 07, 2020, 07:20:11 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on October 07, 2020, 05:20:23 PM
I don't need that a composer has to have a super distinctive voice to find him/her great or enjoyable.

I agree. In fact, it's sometimes the case that when certain composers have a very distinctive style, their music can become somewhat predictable to me, especially when I listen to it often.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on June 20, 2021, 06:15:10 AM
Cross post from the Film Music Thread


Alwyn: Film Music [Hickox]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~R0AAOSw40xfFzC3/s-l1600.jpg)


This is actually my first introduction to this composer. I am impressed thus far with his orchestration skills.

I will read this thread as a precursor to further exploration of this composer.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 20, 2021, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: aligreto on June 20, 2021, 06:15:10 AM
Cross post from the Film Music Thread


Alwyn: Film Music [Hickox]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~R0AAOSw40xfFzC3/s-l1600.jpg)


This is actually my first introduction to this composer. I am impressed thus far with his orchestration skills.

I will read this thread as a precursor to further exploration of this composer.
'Odd Man Out' is a magnificent score Fergus. I consider it to be one of Alwyn's finest works. There is a kind of 'doomed processional' about it which I find very moving.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on June 20, 2021, 10:35:36 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 20, 2021, 10:20:23 AM
'Odd Man Out' is a magnificent score Fergus. I consider it to be one of Alwyn's finest works. There is a kind of 'doomed processional' about it which I find very moving.

I am just beginning my exploration of a heretofore unknown composer to me, Jeffrey, and I am impressed thus far.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 20, 2021, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: aligreto on June 20, 2021, 10:35:36 AM
I am just beginning my exploration of a heretofore unknown composer to me, Jeffrey, and I am impressed thus far.
I like all of the symphonies Fergus and much else besides and find the Violin Concerto to be an extraordinarily underrated work.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 06:34:26 AM
Alwyn's music has always been in my memory thanks to the figure skater Michelle Kwan and her knockout performance at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano:

https://www.youtube.com/v/UdYPFKO0X1k

I still find the Lyra Angelica one of the most exquisite pieces of music I know. Also, unlike Kyle, I do find that Alwyn has his own unique compositional voice. A lot of the times you'll find this in a composer's harmonic language.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 06:49:57 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 06:34:26 AM
Alwyn's music has always been in my memory thanks to the figure skater Michelle Kwan and her knockout performance at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano:

https://www.youtube.com/v/UdYPFKO0X1k

I still find the Lyra Angelica one of the most exquisite pieces of music I know. Also, unlike Kyle, I do find that Alwyn has his own unique compositional voice. A lot of the times you'll find this in a composer's harmonic language.
What an amazing display! I see that we get a bit of Satie interspersed with the Alwyn, but what a great choice of music. Thanks for posting it John.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on June 21, 2021, 07:02:45 AM
Quote from: aligreto on June 20, 2021, 10:35:36 AM
I am just beginning my exploration of a heretofore unknown composer to me, Jeffrey, and I am impressed thus far.

I am yet to be convinced by Alwyn, and suspect that repeated listens may be required to appreciate the evident lyricism that others note in his work. Have just completed a first hearing of symphonies 2 and 5 with DLJ Naxos, and whether it is because I have been hearing the symphonies of Alla Pavlova earlier today (2, 4 and 1) and Imants Kalniņš (particularly 4, 6 and 7) which are clearly attractive and emotionally memorable, this hasn't made a huge impact. Perhaps context is important, and I need to come at them again without the lyrical immediacy of these works clouding my appreciation. The Baxian comparisons haven't broken upon me yet, but that is likely to be unfamiliarity and ignorance on my part rather than a lack in the works themselves.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 07:08:46 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 06:49:57 AM
What an amazing display! I see that we get a bit of Satie interspersed with the Alwyn, but what a great choice of music. Thanks for posting it John.

You're welcome, Jeffrey. Kwan was one of the greats. I was never a huge fan of the Winter Olympics, but I always loved figure skating.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on June 22, 2021, 12:29:52 PM
Continuing my exploration of the music of Alwyn:


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mKPZgVhbL._SX355_.jpg)


Autumn Legend: I found this to be a powerful and richly scored piece of music. I particularly like the tone of the work. The inert lyricism of the music is also very appealing and compelling.

Pastoral Fantasia: I like the contemplative tone of this work. Yes it is pastoral and lyrical but there is a depth to it that is not necessarily apparent on the surface, initially. There is a strong sense of poignancy to it. There is aso a subdued but ardent voice here which ultimately proclaims itself towards the conclusion of the piece.

Tragic Interlude: There is a wonderful atmosphere as well as a fine tension and the occasional drama in this work. Yes, it is pastoral and lyrical but there is also a sense of the pathetique about it.

Lyra Angelica: I am not usually given to Harp Concertos but this is definitely one of the best that I have come across. I like the musical language and the relatively sparse use of the instrument in the first movement. There is a dreamlike quality to the music, particularly in the second movement where the harp is prominent, but in a collaborative way with the orchestra. The Final movement is a wonderfully engaging piece of symphonic writing, melodically and harmonically rich and full. This is magnificent, enchanting and engrossing music.


Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 22, 2021, 11:32:49 PM
Quote from: aligreto on June 22, 2021, 12:29:52 PM
Continuing my exploration of the music of Alwyn:


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mKPZgVhbL._SX355_.jpg)


Autumn Legend: I found this to be a powerful and richly scored piece of music. I particularly like the tone of the work. The inert lyricism of the music is also very appealing and compelling.

Pastoral Fantasia: I like the contemplative tone of this work. Yes it is pastoral and lyrical but there is a depth to it that is not necessarily apparent on the surface, initially. There is a strong sense of poignancy to it. There is aso a subdued but ardent voice here which ultimately proclaims itself towards the conclusion of the piece.

Tragic Interlude: There is a wonderful atmosphere as well as a fine tension and the occasional drama in this work. Yes, it is pastoral and lyrical but there is also a sense of the pathetique about it.

Lyra Angelica: I am not usually given to Harp Concertos but this is definitely one of the best that I have come across. I like the musical language and the relatively sparse use of the instrument in the first movement. There is a dreamlike quality to the music, particularly in the second movement where the harp is prominent, but in a collaborative way with the orchestra. The Final movement is a wonderfully engaging piece of symphonic writing, melodically and harmonically rich and full. This is magnificent, enchanting and engrossing music.

An excellent Alwyn series from Chandos including many premiere recordings. I like the cover art too.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2021, 12:52:35 AM
Quote from: Irons on June 22, 2021, 11:32:49 PM
An excellent Alwyn series from Chandos including many premiere recordings. I like the cover art too.
+1; those are Alwyn's paintings on the covers of the Chandos series.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 23, 2021, 06:51:18 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 23, 2021, 12:52:35 AM
+1; those are Alwyn's paintings on the covers of the Chandos series.

Did not realise that, Jeffrey.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on June 26, 2021, 02:30:09 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 23, 2021, 12:52:35 AM
+1; those are Alwyn's paintings on the covers of the Chandos series.

I did not realize that either  8)

A multi talented artist then.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
Quote from: aligreto on June 26, 2021, 02:30:09 AM
I did not realize that either  8)

A multi talented artist then.
And the notes are by his wife!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on June 27, 2021, 04:03:58 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
And the notes are by his wife!

Wonderful!
I have it as a download and was not privy to all of that information.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 27, 2021, 07:25:13 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 02:54:56 AM
And the notes are by his wife!

That is interesting, Jeffrey. I immediately thought Doreen Carwithen but checking my Alwyn CD notes the author is in fact Mary Alwyn. So he was married twice. Doreen, 17 years younger then him, curtailed more then a promising career as a composer to be William Alwyn's amanuensis and then his (2nd) wife.



Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 27, 2021, 07:29:44 AM
Quote from: Irons on June 27, 2021, 07:25:13 AM
That is interesting, Jeffrey. I immediately thought Doreen Carwithen but checking my Alwyn CD notes the author is in fact Mary Alwyn. So he was married twice. Doreen, 17 years younger then him, curtailed more then a promising career as a composer to be William Alwyn's amanuensis and then his (2nd) wife.

A friend of mine is related to the Alwyn's.  I know few if any details but I seem to recall enduring bad blood over the manner of the move from Mrs Alwyn 1 to Mrs Alwyn 2 (apologies for sounding like a right old gossip!).  A touch of the Hopeless Hancocks perhaps......
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Big David on June 27, 2021, 10:24:54 AM
Currently listening to Alwyn's 5th symphony, from the Lyrita British Symphonies box.  The performance is by the LPO, conducted by Alwyn.  It's rather good.  I don't have any other Alwyn in my collection and will explore further.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: Irons on June 27, 2021, 07:25:13 AM
That is interesting, Jeffrey. I immediately thought Doreen Carwithen but checking my Alwyn CD notes the author is in fact Mary Alwyn. So he was married twice. Doreen, 17 years younger then him, curtailed more then a promising career as a composer to be William Alwyn's amanuensis and then his (2nd) wife.
Doreen Carwithen and Mary Alwyn are the same person (you may know all this already) - I don't know much about Alwyn's first wife but I have a biography about him so should check.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:06:04 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 27, 2021, 07:29:44 AM
A friend of mine is related to the Alwyn's.  I know few if any details but I seem to recall enduring bad blood over the manner of the move from Mrs Alwyn 1 to Mrs Alwyn 2 (apologies for sounding like a right old gossip!).  A touch of the Hopeless Hancocks perhaps......
I have a feeling that he left his first wife for his 'assistant' (remind you of anyone in the news recently?) Oh yes, I see that it did!  8)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 27, 2021, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 27, 2021, 07:29:44 AM
A friend of mine is related to the Alwyn's.  I know few if any details but I seem to recall enduring bad blood over the manner of the move from Mrs Alwyn 1 to Mrs Alwyn 2 (apologies for sounding like a right old gossip!).  A touch of the Hopeless Hancocks perhaps......

Funnily enough Hancock entered my mind too - which isn't the best of thoughts. I believe No.2 was a student of Alwyn's and he wasn't the first or last by any means who moved for a younger model.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: Irons on June 27, 2021, 11:07:03 PM
Funnily enough Hancock entered my mind too - which isn't the best of thoughts. I believe No.2 was a student of Alwyn's and he wasn't the first or last by any means who moved for a younger model.
Yes, very true. Martinu, for example.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 27, 2021, 11:14:12 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:03:38 PM
Doreen Carwithen and Mary Alwyn are the same person (you may know all this already) - I don't know much about Alwyn's first wife but I have a biography about him so should check.

Oh, I did not. Why the (christian) name change? I thought it unusual for an estranged wife to write programme notes. Wiki my usual font of information has next to nothing on Alwyn's personal life.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:16:11 PM
Quote from: Big David on June 27, 2021, 10:24:54 AM
Currently listening to Alwyn's 5th symphony, from the Lyrita British Symphonies box.  The performance is by the LPO, conducted by Alwyn.  It's rather good.  I don't have any other Alwyn in my collection and will explore further.
I wrote a fan letter to Alwyn (C/O Lyrita) after hearing him conduct his 5th symphony on the radio c.1980 - he sent a really nice letter back.

I like all of his symphonies very much.

The greatest I think is No.2 (which was Alwyn's own favourite of the five).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:20:41 PM
Quote from: Irons on June 27, 2021, 11:14:12 PM
Oh, I did not. Why the (christian) name change? I thought it unusual for an estranged wife to write programme notes. Wiki my usual font of information has next to nothing on Alwyn's personal life.

She was quite an interesting composer as well (there are some nice recordings on Chandos). Doreen Carwithen was the name that she chose as a composer, as she did not want to be confused as a composer with William, also she did not want to think that her music only attracted attention because of her husband.

If you like Alwyn's music this should appeal - a very enjoyable CD. The same CD can be found with a different cover image (of Doreen painted by WA I think) and there is an enjoyable Chandos CD of chamber music as well:
(//)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 27, 2021, 11:34:03 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:20:41 PM
She was quite an interesting composer as well (there are some nice recordings on Chandos). Doreen Carwithen was the name that she chose as a composer, as she did not want to be confused as a composer with William, also she did not want to think that her music only attracted attention because of her husband.

Thanks for explanation. I rate Doreen Carwithen highly as a composer.

Oddly the Wiki page for Carwithen is accurate  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doreen_Carwithen

and the one for Alwyn is not  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Alwyn
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 27, 2021, 11:37:34 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:20:41 PM


If you like Alwyn's music this should appeal - a very enjoyable CD. The same CD can be found with a different cover image (of Doreen painted by WA I think) and there is an enjoyable Chandos CD of chamber music as well:
(//)

I have that CD, Jeffrey. A favourite, also -

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:41:33 PM
Quote from: Irons on June 27, 2021, 11:34:03 PM
Thanks for explanation. I rate Doreen Carwithen highly as a composer.

Oddly the Wiki page for Carwithen is accurate  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doreen_Carwithen

and the one for Alwyn is not  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Alwyn
Interesting Lol - I see that WA's great grandson Joe Alwyn (actor and musician) is in a relationship with the American singer Taylor Swift. I wonder what his great grandfather would have thought of her music?  ;D

That Somm CD looks interesting.

Of course I have no interest in celebrity gossip you understand!  8)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 28, 2021, 07:25:44 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2021, 11:41:33 PM
Interesting Lol - I see that WA's great grandson Joe Alwyn (actor and musician) is in a relationship with the American singer Taylor Swift. I wonder what his great grandfather would have thought of her music?  ;D

That Somm CD looks interesting.

Of course I have no interest in celebrity gossip you understand!  8)

I too have no interest in celebrity gossip, Jeffrey. Did you know that Alan Rawsthorne married the widow of Constant Lambert who was the stepmother of Kit Lambert, famously manager of The Who, who :) died after being beat up and falling down a flight of stairs in a gay London night club? Allegedly.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 28, 2021, 07:30:11 AM
Quote from: Irons on June 28, 2021, 07:25:44 AM
I too have no interest in celebrity gossip, Jeffrey. Did you know that Alan Rawsthorne married the widow of Constant Lambert who was the stepmother of Kit Lambert, famously manager of The Who, who :) died after being beat up and falling down a flight of stairs in a gay London night club? Allegedly.
Oddly enough, I did know that Lol. Remember that I was born and brought up in Earl's Court!

And (OT) here is my favourite photo of Constant Lambert - I wonder if you can guess why?  8)
(//)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 30, 2021, 07:04:46 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 28, 2021, 07:30:11 AM
Oddly enough, I did know that Lol. Remember that I was born and brought up in Earl's Court!

And (OT) here is my favourite photo of Constant Lambert - I wonder if you can guess why?  8)
(//)

Lambert is looking at the cat lovingly and the cat could not care less! Dogs are below us and cats are above us.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on July 01, 2021, 01:54:41 AM
Alwyn: Conducted by the composer


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0IIAAOSwjdFefSJt/s-l1600.jpg)


I am finishing off this CD with Sinfonietta for Strings

This is a first listen to this work for me [as with everything else on this CD]. I like it. Obviously because of the scale of the work Alwyn allows himself time and space to develop his ideas which is where the meat of a composer's music can lie. The final movement is particularly interesting and compelling; it is terrific writing by any standard. Even with limited instrumentation the scoring is really interesting. The music has a voice and it is well presented. I am looking forward to hearing his symphonies as a result.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2021, 11:50:02 AM
Quote from: Irons on June 30, 2021, 07:04:46 AM
Lambert is looking at the cat lovingly and the cat could not care less! Dogs are below us and cats are above us.

Haha - quite right Lol '...and only pigs look us in the face' (Churchill).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2021, 11:52:08 AM
Quote from: aligreto on July 01, 2021, 01:54:41 AM
Alwyn: Conducted by the composer


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0IIAAOSwjdFefSJt/s-l1600.jpg)


I am finishing off this CD with Sinfonietta for Strings

This is a first listen to this work for me [as with everything else on this CD]. I like it. Obviously because of the scale of the work Alwyn allows himself time and space to develop his ideas which is where the meat of a composer's music can lie. The final movement is particularly interesting and compelling; it is terrific writing by any standard. Even with limited instrumentation the scoring is really interesting. The music has a voice and it is well presented. I am looking forward to hearing his symphonies as a result.
I think I'm right Fergus in saying that the Sinfonietta was written for the Music Dept at Lancaster University, where I studied (not in the Music Dept) from 1973-1976.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on July 01, 2021, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: aligreto on July 01, 2021, 01:54:41 AM
Alwyn: Conducted by the composer


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0IIAAOSwjdFefSJt/s-l1600.jpg)


I am finishing off this CD with Sinfonietta for Strings

This is a first listen to this work for me [as with everything else on this CD]. I like it. Obviously because of the scale of the work Alwyn allows himself time and space to develop his ideas which is where the meat of a composer's music can lie. The final movement is particularly interesting and compelling; it is terrific writing by any standard. Even with limited instrumentation the scoring is really interesting. The music has a voice and it is well presented. I am looking forward to hearing his symphonies as a result.

After your advocacy Fergus I will give the Sinfonietta a spin - for LP the work is coupled with the 2nd Symphony.

Jeffrey only just missed out as the Sinfonietta was completed in 1970 after a commission from the Music Department of Lancaster University.

If I may be so bold as recommend an Alwyn CD. On Chandos with Hickox and London Sinfonia, Three Concerti Grossi. I think you will enjoy it, I know I do! Picked it up cheaply too.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on July 01, 2021, 01:47:00 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 01, 2021, 11:52:08 AM
I think I'm right Fergus in saying that the Sinfonietta was written for the Music Dept at Lancaster University, where I studied (not in the Music Dept) from 1973-1976.

Thank you for that information, Jeffrey. The above CD is a download so I do not have the booklet.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: aligreto on July 01, 2021, 01:50:14 PM
Quote from: Irons on July 01, 2021, 01:36:34 PM
After your advocacy Fergus I will give the Sinfonietta a spin - for LP the work is coupled with the 2nd Symphony.

Jeffrey only just missed out as the Sinfonietta was completed in 1970 after a commission from the Music Department of Lancaster University.

If I may be so bold as recommend an Alwyn CD. On Chandos with Hickox and London Sinfonia, Three Concerti Grossi. I think you will enjoy it, I know I do! Picked it up cheaply too.

I am sure that you will enjoy the Sinfonietta Lol.
Thank you for the recommendation of the Three Concerti Grossi. I have his symphonies lined up next. He is a composer that I had not heard of until very recently and I am becoming more impressed with his music the more that I hear it.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 09, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
BOY, I'm coming late to the show!  ??? 8)  But I've been collecting Alwyn for years and now have about a dozen CDs - the first 4 up are shown below and now listening to the gorgeous Lyra Angelica to end my evening - will restart in the morning.  NOW, I know he is considered the Godfather of British Film composers and I have a number of those movies (e.g. Odd Man Out, Swiss Family Robinson, & In Search of the Castaways) - SO, maybe I should obtain some film CDs? Don't have any, but plenty of other recordings which I'll be posting soon.  Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716KqPFgsKL._SS500_PIPJStripe-Robin-Large-V2,TopLeft,0,0_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81NYMi00KlL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51vay2oa6UL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mKPZgVhbL.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Brian on August 09, 2021, 05:18:13 PM
Hello Dave! I really enjoyed that chamber music disc a while back, and of course Lyra Angelica too. I just bought a copy of Naxos "Piano Music Volume 1", with lots of romantic miniatures and a huge cycle of "fantasy waltzes." Unfortunately, the retailer was out of stock. But it should be along in a few weeks!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: amw on August 09, 2021, 05:38:12 PM
I have both (?) volumes of the piano music (or at least volumes 1 and 2). Ashley Wass is definitely a pianist who deserves to be better known, and the music is pretty substantial, even given that most of it consists of miniatures and cycles of miniatures. I'd probably recommend them.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 09, 2021, 10:47:13 PM
The Alwyn/Film Music series on Chandos is very fine - for me some of the best discs in that series. Famously Alwyn used the money he earned from writing film scores to self-fund the LPs he conducted of his own music on Lyrita.  Although the Chandos series of his orchestral works are very good indeed I must admit I usually turn to those Lyrita recordings first - stunning sound and thrilling music.  That said - the Naxos series of the Symphonies etc in Liverpool is very good too.  Alwyn is still shamefully under-represented in the concert hall.  In all my years of being a professional violinist I have never played a single orchestral piece by him in concert.  I've played some of his quartet and string orchestra music (because I could choose the music) but nothing else.  If you look at the Proms - 3 of his symphonies were played (once each) in the 1950's, one (No.5) in the 1980's and No.1 (for the 2nd time) in 2014.  No.2 has never been played.  The (gorgeous) violin concerto - never played.  Film music - once - THIS YEAR!! (early September).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2021, 11:31:16 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 09, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
BOY, I'm coming late to the show!  ??? 8)  But I've been collecting Alwyn for years and now have about a dozen CDs - the first 4 up are shown below and now listening to the gorgeous Lyra Angelica to end my evening - will restart in the morning.  NOW, I know he is considered the Godfather of British Film composers and I have a number of those movies (e.g. Odd Man Out, Swiss Family Robinson, & In Search of the Castaways) - SO, maybe I should obtain some film CDs? Don't have any, but plenty of other recordings which I'll be posting soon.  Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716KqPFgsKL._SS500_PIPJStripe-Robin-Large-V2,TopLeft,0,0_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81NYMi00KlL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51vay2oa6UL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mKPZgVhbL.jpg)
What strikes me as odd Dave is the almost total neglect of Alwyn's Violin Concerto - one of his greatest works IMO.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 10, 2021, 04:28:22 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 09, 2021, 11:31:16 PM
What strikes me as odd Dave is the almost total neglect of Alwyn's Violin Concerto - one of his greatest works IMO.

Well, just 4 so far of my dozen Alwyn CDs - more coming up later!  Dave
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Brian on August 10, 2021, 07:40:46 AM
The violin concerto is utterly beautiful and one of the Alwyn pieces I listen to most. In fact, I'm revisiting it now. At 5:00 in the finale (Naxos version), there is a passage where the orchestration sounds a lot like part of Holst's "Planets."

However, I do understand its relative failure to catch on in the concert hall setting. The melodies are lyrical and emotionally affecting, but not terribly memorable, the first movement contains some rambling, and - worst of all, from the point of view of a concert organizer - the endings of all three movements are a tiny bit disappointing. The first movement ends with the violin "resolving" the drama, but the rest of the orchestra does not provide the expected chord to finish the resolution. The violin's also playing alone at the end of the slow movement, and the finale ends on a satisfying, upbeat fanfare with a weird long pause before it.

In other words...it's perfect for CDs. We can listen all we want at home and enjoy the beauty and pleasure it provides, without worrying about whether it would "work" in concert.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2021, 07:49:56 AM
Quote from: Brian on August 10, 2021, 07:40:46 AM
The violin concerto is utterly beautiful and one of the Alwyn pieces I listen to most. In fact, I'm revisiting it now. At 5:00 in the finale (Naxos version), there is a passage where the orchestration sounds a lot like part of Holst's "Planets."

However, I do understand its relative failure to catch on in the concert hall setting. The melodies are lyrical and emotionally affecting, but not terribly memorable, the first movement contains some rambling, and - worst of all, from the point of view of a concert organizer - the endings of all three movements are a tiny bit disappointing. The first movement ends with the violin "resolving" the drama, but the rest of the orchestra does not provide the expected chord to finish the resolution. The violin's also playing alone at the end of the slow movement, and the finale ends on a satisfying, upbeat fanfare with a weird long pause before it.

In other words...it's perfect for CDs. We can listen all we want at home and enjoy the beauty and pleasure it provides, without worrying about whether it would "work" in concert.
Most interesting analysis - thanks.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Daverz on August 10, 2021, 08:26:12 AM
I love the Violin Concerto, particularly the McAslan recording, though I should try the Mordkovitch again.   Paul A. Snook in Fanfare is rather harsh on the work:

QuoteAs for the much earlier (1937-39) violin concerto, it was never performed with orchestra in the composer's lifetime, and, after struggling through its forty-minute length (the first movement alone almost half of this enormous span), this listener can readily understand why. The work is simply not as smooth and forceful as the even earlier piano concerto just issued also on Chandos. Focus and structure were often problems for the long-winded younger Alwyn, as this work illustrates vividly. Mordkovitch sounds vaguely tentative in what is in essence a modified sinfonia concertante, as the large orchestra wallows in an ocean of ideas—some of them quite striking—which soon begin to cancel each other out. If ever a piece needed rethinking and trimming, this is it, but nothing from the prodigious pen of Alwyn was ever without some interest. All lovers of modern British music will remain in Chandos's debt for bringing this rare work to the attention of a wider public.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 10, 2021, 08:36:43 AM
As stated before, I own about a dozen Alwyn CDs and listened to 4 yesterday; up for the morning are the 4 in the top row below - I likely will add Ashley Wass' V. 2 of piano music, unless there may be other recommendations?  The 3-disc Symphony Box for the afternoon.  From Jeffrey's & Brian's strong recommendations, I'd like to add the Violin Concerto, and there seems to be two contenders (bottom row, middle pics) - any thoughts would be appreciated, believe both have received good reviews.  Finally since he is kind of the 'Godfather' of English film music, I was thinking of the last pic w/ the 'Odd Man Out' although I own the Criterion BD of the film?  Thanks for any comments.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51CVG7c18QL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71zR3oe2qhL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pmn6ZRm8L.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81KEbUW74SL._SS500_PIPJStripe-Robin-Large-V2,TopLeft,0,0_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61LCRsXLyeL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71VABcBWO-L._SL1210_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51d5C%2BKZdmL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Nu--dBPYL.jpg)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Brian on August 10, 2021, 01:05:41 PM
The recording I know well is McAslan's - can't comment on any others but it is very good (the soloist is spotlit a bit but she is also good).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 10, 2021, 01:26:10 PM
Quote from: Daverz on August 10, 2021, 08:26:12 AM
I love the Violin Concerto, particularly the McAslan recording, though I should try the Mordkovitch again.   Paul A. Snook in Fanfare is rather harsh on the work:
Quote from: Brian on August 10, 2021, 01:05:41 PM
The recording I know well is McAslan's - can't comment on any others but it is very good (the soloist is spotlit a bit but she is also good).

Thanks Guys - I ordered the Naxos disc w/ McAslan because the reviews of both violinists were equally good and I already had the 3rd Symphony - the additional works on the Naxos recording were a better 'fit' for me - looking forward to hearing the violin work.  Dave :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2021, 10:53:35 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 10, 2021, 01:26:10 PM
Thanks Guys - I ordered the Naxos disc w/ McAslan because the reviews of both violinists were equally good and I already had the 3rd Symphony - the additional works on the Naxos recording were a better 'fit' for me - looking forward to hearing the violin work.  Dave :)
I have both of the CDs featuring the Violin Concerto and love both performances. If you already have Symphony No.3 it makes sense to get hold of the Naxos CD but, personally, I'm glad to have both recordings. You definitely need the 'Odd Man Out' film music CD. 'Odd Man Out' is one of my favourite works by Alwyn and the 'doomed processional' is worthy IMO to stand behind Miklos Rozsa's 'The Procession to Calvary' from his score for 'Ben Hur' - definitely not to be missed. I look forward to reading what you think of the VC Dave - it's neglect mystifies me but I take the points made by others here.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on August 13, 2021, 03:15:43 AM
I listened to the Violin Concerto the other day thanks to this thread. Really enjoyed it. Plenty of weight and variety in the orchestra, which makes a work more interesting for me. Slow movement was lovely.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on August 13, 2021, 03:55:20 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on August 13, 2021, 03:15:43 AM
I listened to the Violin Concerto the other day thanks to this thread. Really enjoyed it. Plenty of weight and variety in the orchestra, which makes a work more interesting for me. Slow movement was lovely.
Glad that you enjoyed it.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vers la flamme on August 14, 2021, 04:40:29 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/nLsLR6kT/image.jpg)

This Hickox/London Alwyn disc is really good! I'd love to collect the rest of the series but some of the other ones are a bit more expensive.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on August 18, 2021, 12:57:59 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 14, 2021, 04:40:29 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/nLsLR6kT/image.jpg)

This Hickox/London Alwyn disc is really good! I'd love to collect the rest of the series but some of the other ones are a bit more expensive.
I love the first movement - like a mini-symphony in itself. The Elizabethan Dances are good too. I think that release is arguably the best of the Hickox Alwyn cycle.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2021, 01:56:27 AM
From WAYLTN thread - I thought that this delightful CD needed more exposure!
William Alwyn
'Pastoral Fantasia' (1939)
Lovely early morning listening, with elements of 'The Lark Ascending' (like Milford's 'Darkling Thrush') about it. Somehow this work had passed me by until now. From the CD notes 'The Pastoral Fantasia for viola and string orchestra was composed between June and October 1939. As the clouds of war were gathering, it is clear that this gentle rhapsodic work is a nostalgic look back to an England of times past when things moved at a slower pace and life in general was more pleasant. However, with the onset of World War II this way of life would be shattered forever.'
(//)


Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vers la flamme on January 21, 2022, 05:46:07 AM
Alwyn's music has been clicking for me lately. I don't know what it is. I'd have a hard time describing his music to someone who's never heard it, and I'm not sure that he was exactly the most original composer in the world, but he was clearly talented. His orchestration was good. One can tell, listening to his symphonies, that he wrote a lot of film scores. By far my favorite work of his is Lyra Angelica, but I do also like the symphonies, especially 2 and 5 (I have the Naxos disc), and the Odd Man Out Suite, which I have the Hickox recording of on Chandos.

Anyone else listening?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on January 21, 2022, 06:23:16 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 21, 2022, 05:46:07 AM
Alwyn's music has been clicking for me lately. I don't know what it is. I'd have a hard time describing his music to someone who's never heard it, and I'm not sure that he was exactly the most original composer in the world, but he was clearly talented. His orchestration was good. One can tell, listening to his symphonies, that he wrote a lot of film scores. By far my favorite work of his is Lyra Angelica, but I do also like the symphonies, especially 2 and 5 (I have the Naxos disc), and the Odd Man Out Suite, which I have the Hickox recording of on Chandos.

Anyone else listening?

Yeah, I picked up the Naxos release with the VC, Miss Julie Suite etc., last night. He is one of the English composers that I ought to know really well, but confess to having somehow bypassed to listen to other things. I've been listening to lots of Bruckner this week, but need something on a slightly smaller scale to act as a foil. If Bruckner is my something old, Alwyn is a good choice for something new.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on January 21, 2022, 07:06:41 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 21, 2022, 05:46:07 AM
Alwyn's music has been clicking for me lately. I don't know what it is. I'd have a hard time describing his music to someone who's never heard it, and I'm not sure that he was exactly the most original composer in the world, but he was clearly talented. His orchestration was good. One can tell, listening to his symphonies, that he wrote a lot of film scores. By far my favorite work of his is Lyra Angelica, but I do also like the symphonies, especially 2 and 5 (I have the Naxos disc), and the Odd Man Out Suite, which I have the Hickox recording of on Chandos.

Anyone else listening?

Have you heard his 2nd Piano Concerto? It's not often discussed, even amongst Alwynites, but it's one of my favorite works of his. Big, bold, dramatic, and sweeping in the outer movements and touchingly, intimate lyrical in the central one. As per usual with Alwyn, there's excellent recordings on both Chandos and Naxos. Also, his substantial opera Miss Julie is quite wonderful in a passionate, "neo-Puccinian" sort of way.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 12:00:04 AM
Quote from: kyjo on January 21, 2022, 07:06:41 AM
Have you heard his 2nd Piano Concerto? It's not often discussed, even amongst Alwynites, but it's one of my favorite works of his. Big, bold, dramatic, and sweeping in the outer movements and touchingly, intimate lyrical in the central one. As per usual with Alwyn, there's excellent recordings on both Chandos and Naxos. Also, his substantial opera Miss Julie is quite wonderful in a passionate, "neo-Puccinian" sort of way.
Must give that another listen to Kyle. My Alwyn favourites are Symphony No.2 (actually I like all five symphonies), Pastoral Fantasia, The Magic Island, Lyra Angelica Autumn Legend and the unaccountably neglected Violin Concerto + the terrific score for 'Odd Man Out' (in the Chandos Film Music Collection).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on January 22, 2022, 06:30:03 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on January 22, 2022, 01:16:02 AM
William Alwyn
Symphony 2
David Lloyd Jones
RLPO
Naxos


I don't think I have heard Alwyn's symphonies more than two or three times through, so good to explore something basically new. .

Listening to #5 now, which I've enjoyed more than the rest of the symphonies so far. Had to look up the meaning of Hydriotaphia - it is a funeral urn. The symphony was apparently named in homage to a work written by Sir Thomas Browne in 1658 about the discovery of a number of Anglo-Saxon hydriotaphia. Alwyn enjoyed Browne's writing!

This is a great quote, which no doubt impacted Alwyn:

"But man is a Noble Animal, splendid in ashes, and pompous in the grave, solemnizing Nativities and Deaths with equal lustre, nor omitting Ceremonies of bravery, in the infamy of his nature. Life is a pure flame, and we live by an invisible Sun within us."

Hydriotaphia, Urn Burial, or, a Discourse of the Sepulchral Urns lately found in Norfolk is a work by Sir Thomas Browne, published in 1658
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on January 22, 2022, 08:08:31 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 12:00:04 AM
Must give that another listen to Kyle. My Alwyn favourites are Symphony No.2 (actually I like all five symphonies), Pastoral Fantasia, The Magic Island, Lyra Angelica Autumn Legend and the unaccountably neglected Violin Concerto + the terrific score for 'Odd Man Out' (in the Chandos Film Music Collection).

Yes, the PC no. 2 is mandatory listening for all Alwynites!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 09:19:05 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on January 22, 2022, 06:30:03 AM
Listening to #5 now, which I've enjoyed more than the rest of the symphonies so far. Had to look up the meaning of Hydriotaphia - it is a funeral urn. The symphony was apparently named in homage to a work written by Sir Thomas Browne in 1658 about the discovery of a number of Anglo-Saxon hydriotaphia. Alwyn enjoyed Browne's writing!

This is a great quote, which no doubt impacted Alwyn:

"But man is a Noble Animal, splendid in ashes, and pompous in the grave, solemnizing Nativities and Deaths with equal lustre, nor omitting Ceremonies of bravery, in the infamy of his nature. Life is a pure flame, and we live by an invisible Sun within us."

Hydriotaphia, Urn Burial, or, a Discourse of the Sepulchral Urns lately found in Norfolk is a work by Sir Thomas Browne, published in 1658
That's a very good CD release Danny - the first one in the Naxos cycle. All three works are first rate.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on January 22, 2022, 09:52:04 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 09:19:05 AM
That's a very good CD release Danny - the first one in the Naxos cycle. All three works are first rate.

I'm enjoying the Lloyd Jones cycle so far, although the Hickox #1 is really decent. Hoping to get my head round both cycles though 🙂

Need to familiarise myself with Alwyn!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 10:12:17 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on January 22, 2022, 09:52:04 AM
I'm enjoying the Lloyd Jones cycle so far, although the Hickox #1 is really decent. Hoping to get my head round both cycles though 🙂

Need to familiarise myself with Alwyn!
Without wanting to put more temptation in your way Danny, Alwyn's own recording of Symphony No.2 on Lyrita, is arguably the best of all:
(//)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on January 22, 2022, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 10:12:17 AM
Without wanting to put more temptation in your way Danny, Alwyn's own recording of Symphony No.2 on Lyrita, is arguably the best of all:
(//)

Gotcha. Saved to my William Alwyn Spotify playlist. Thanks, Jeffrey 🙂. Really value the pointers and recs, particularly of those recordings and threads highlighting the best of the best!

More Alwyn with this in the morning, I think.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 22, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
The Alwyn I enjoy the most comprises: Lyra Angelica, Symphonies 1-5, Concerti grossi 1-3, Sinfonietta, Autumn Legend, string quartets, film music. The Violin Concerto is pretty, but, personally, I don't find it as engrossing as other of his works.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on January 23, 2022, 07:11:03 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 22, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
The Alwyn I enjoy the most comprises: Lyra Angelica, Symphonies 1-5, Concerti grossi 1-3, Sinfonietta, Autumn Legend, string quartets, film music. The Violin Concerto is pretty, but, personally, I don't find it as engrossing as other of his works.

The first time I heard the VC I was enraptured by it, but when I revisited it recently I found it rather diffuse. Funny how that happens sometimes! As far as British VCs go, I prefer the ones by Elgar, Britten, Walton, Moeran, and Dyson. I'm also not too keen on the rather "generic" 1st Symphony.

What are your thoughts on the 2nd PC, Cesar? Am I the only one on GMG who likes this work?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 23, 2022, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: kyjo on January 23, 2022, 07:11:03 AM
The first time I heard the VC I was enraptured by it, but when I revisited it recently I found it rather diffuse. Funny how that happens sometimes! As far as British VCs go, I prefer the ones by Elgar, Britten, Walton, Moeran, and Dyson. I'm also not too keen on the rather "generic" 1st Symphony.

What are your thoughts on the 2nd PC, Cesar? Am I the only one on GMG who likes this work?

Almost my thoughts exactly, except for the "generic" Sym. No. 1. It's a work full of color and intense "Neo-Romantic" spirit IMO. You used the right word for the VC: diffuse. That was my perception the last time I revisited it.

As for the PC 2, I don't have vivid memories of it, so I'll need to give it a spin soon.

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vers la flamme on January 24, 2022, 02:57:48 AM
Not sure what it is about Alwyn's music that hooks me in. He was a talented orchestrator—one can see why he was so successful in the realm of film music—and his orchestral music seems to inhabit a unique sound world. But he's quickly becoming one of my favorite English composers, alongside Malcolm Arnold (another successful film-scorer/composer).
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: springrite on January 24, 2022, 05:05:55 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 12:00:04 AM
Must give that another listen to Kyle. My Alwyn favourites are Symphony No.2 (actually I like all five symphonies), Pastoral Fantasia, The Magic Island, Lyra Angelica Autumn Legend and the unaccountably neglected Violin Concerto + the terrific score for 'Odd Man Out' (in the Chandos Film Music Collection).
The second is my favorite as well.
The very first Alwyn work that I heard was actually the violin concerto, which may account for why I have a special attachment to it.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on January 24, 2022, 05:56:39 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 24, 2022, 02:57:48 AM
Not sure what it is about Alwyn's music that hooks me in. He was a talented orchestrator—one can see why he was so successful in the realm of film music—and his orchestral music seems to inhabit a unique sound world. But he's quickly becoming one of my favorite English composers, alongside Malcolm Arnold (another successful film-scorer/composer).

I am finding Alwyn more of a challenge than Arnold, Bax, RVW, Rubbra, Arnell, etc. Perseverance is the key, but I have found my mind wandering a little while listening to the symphonies. I'm sure it is just unfamiliarity, so once I have heard each work a few times, my appreciation will undoubtedly kick in.

Good job it isn't PMD Monday, huh?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on January 24, 2022, 08:48:38 AM
I find Alwyn difficult to quantify. I do not think it possible to compare him with his English contemporaries as there is nothing nationalistic in his music. His music is for me elusive but worth the trouble. It took at least three listens of the Violin Concerto before I fully appreciated the lyrical nature of the work. 
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Daverz on January 24, 2022, 04:17:25 PM
The easier entries for me were the Concerto Grossi, the Violin Concerto (yes, it's somewhat perambulatory in between those great lyrical moments) and the scherzo of Symphony No. 4 (well, it's the "Molto vivace" middle movement, but seems obviously a scherzo to me).  The other symphonies have been tougher (as in: I couldn't bring anything about them to mind at the moment, which I don't see as having any bearing on the quality of the music the way some here do.)  Part of the difficulty as that these are brooding works that require cranking up the volume in a way I can seldom do these days.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on January 24, 2022, 04:37:00 PM
Quote from: Irons on January 24, 2022, 08:48:38 AM
I find Alwyn difficult to quantify. I do not think it possible to compare him with his English contemporaries as there is nothing nationalistic in his music. His music is for me elusive but worth the trouble. It took at least three listens of the Violin Concerto before I fully appreciated the lyrical nature of the work.

Second time through today to get to grips with symphonies 2, 3 and 5.

I agree that the VC also needed 2-3 spins to come into its own.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 24, 2022, 11:42:16 PM
Quote from: Irons on January 24, 2022, 08:48:38 AM
I find Alwyn difficult to quantify. I do not think it possible to compare him with his English contemporaries as there is nothing nationalistic in his music. His music is for me elusive but worth the trouble. It took at least three listens of the Violin Concerto before I fully appreciated the lyrical nature of the work.

Not quite sure I understand what you mean - there areso many British composers who are contemporaries of Alwyn who - like him are not nationalist/pastoralist composers;  Joubert/ Rawsthorne/ Leighton/ Frankel/ Reizenstein/ Arnell/ Arnold/ Walton/ Tippett/ Simpson/ Daniel Jones etc etc...... for starters
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on January 25, 2022, 12:12:16 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 24, 2022, 11:42:16 PM
Not quite sure I understand what you mean - there areso many British composers who are contemporaries of Alwyn who - like him are not nationalist/pastoralist composers;  Joubert/ Rawsthorne/ Leighton/ Frankel/ Reizenstein/ Arnell/ Arnold/ Walton/ Tippett/ Simpson/ Daniel Jones etc etc...... for starters

Fair enough.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on January 25, 2022, 04:52:04 AM
That's not an explanation. Do all composers from a country have to be nationalistic?
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on January 25, 2022, 07:24:05 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on January 25, 2022, 04:52:04 AM
That's not an explanation. Do all composers from a country have to be nationalistic?

No.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2022, 08:10:42 PM
Hat tip to Kyle for reminding me of his PC 2. Just heard the Chandos recording, and wow, it is stunning indeed, in a Rachmaninovian spirit and vein. Also, André Mathieu's Piano Concertos 3 and 4 came to mind when heard this stirring and ultra-romantic concerto.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on January 27, 2022, 07:54:43 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 26, 2022, 08:10:42 PM
Hat tip to Kyle for reminding me of his PC 2. Just heard the Chandos recording, and wow, it is stunning indeed, in a Rachmaninovian spirit and vein. Also, André Mathieu's Piano Concertos 3 and 4 came to mind when heard this stirring and ultra-romantic concerto.

Glad you enjoyed it Cesar! Indeed, the Rachmaninov/Mathieu connection is quite apt. I can't help but love these big-boned, passionately Romantic PCs.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on February 02, 2022, 05:39:28 AM
Quote from: Irons on January 24, 2022, 08:48:38 AM
I find Alwyn difficult to quantify. I do not think it possible to compare him with his English contemporaries as there is nothing nationalistic in his music. His music is for me elusive but worth the trouble. It took at least three listens of the Violin Concerto before I fully appreciated the lyrical nature of the work.

I've been pondering this today while listening to the Naxos/Lloyd-Jones performances of the Alwyn symphonies.. Alwyn isn't difficult, but he is certainly elusive for me too - listening with fresh ears without looking for any English pastoral or excessively tuneful expectations has been better. He is hardly a PMD, Simpson or Birtwistle - all of whom I enjoy - but he is oddly in the same category as William Schuman for me ... I don't engage with him straight away as I would with Hanson/Piston et al., because that isn't what he is trying to accomplish, I don't think.

Apart from the Alwyn Conducts Alwyn series on Lyrita, which I think has merit (particularly in #2), the Lloyd-Jones set is likely to be my preferred version. In other news, #4 has supplanted #2 as my Alwyn symphony of choice.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on February 02, 2022, 05:57:17 AM
I tend to link Alwyn with Bax in my mind - neither being especially nationalistic composers.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on February 02, 2022, 07:29:26 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 02, 2022, 05:57:17 AM
I tend to link Alwyn with Bax in my mind - neither being especially nationalistic composers.

Agreed.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vers la flamme on February 02, 2022, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 02, 2022, 05:57:17 AM
I tend to link Alwyn with Bax in my mind - neither being especially nationalistic composers.

I certainly agree with this, though I rate Alwyn ahead of Bax personally. There is some kind of connection between these two, as well as the somewhat younger Malcolm Arnold. Arnold and Alwyn are probably my two favorite English symphonic composers—and there are many to choose from, and I've certainly not heard all of them (haven't heard a note of Rubbra, for instance).

(FWIW, I'm an American.)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on February 02, 2022, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on February 02, 2022, 01:30:36 PM
I certainly agree with this, though I rate Alwyn ahead of Bax personally. There is some kind of connection between these two, as well as the somewhat younger Malcolm Arnold. Arnold and Alwyn are probably my two favorite English symphonic composers—and there are many to choose from, and I've certainly not heard all of them (haven't heard a note of Rubbra, for instance).

(FWIW, I'm an American.)
Yes, I see that you live in Atlanta. My brother worked there, in a factory, for 6 months between school and university.

Bax and Alwyn are both very individual composers and I remember once thinking that if anyone asked me to recommend a composer who might appeal to Bax's admirers (they never have!) that I'd recommend Alwyn. I think that Bax is the more original of the two but I like Alwyn's music very much indeed - especially the symphonies 'Odd Man Out' and the Violin Concerto. As with Bax I love all the symphonies. Try Rubbra symphonies 4,5 or 7.  :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on February 03, 2022, 07:38:19 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 02, 2022, 10:40:58 PM
Yes, I see that you live in Atlanta. My brother worked there, in a factory, for 6 months between school and university.

Bax and Alwyn are both very individual composers and I remember once thinking that if anyone asked me to recommend a composer who might appeal to Bax's admirers (they never have!) that I'd recommend Alwyn. I think that Bax is the more original of the two but I like Alwyn's music very much indeed - especially the symphonies 'Odd Man Out' and the Violin Concerto. As with Bax I love all the symphonies. Try Rubbra symphonies 4,5 or 7.  :)

Running the risk of lighting the blue touch paper. I would put Alwyn with Rubbra rather then Bax. After hearing Tintagel I had to visit the place and I did. With Bax I think of rugged Irish coastlines or dark forests. Alwyn, in his symphonies and string quartets, like Rubbra, is more to admired for structure and musical thought rather then place. But he wrote pictorial film scores. :-\
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: springrite on February 03, 2022, 08:52:48 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 02, 2022, 10:40:58 PM
Try Rubbra symphonies 4,5 or 7.  :)
I also like 3 very much, and maybe 6.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on February 03, 2022, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: Irons on February 03, 2022, 07:38:19 AM
Running the risk of lighting the blue touch paper. I would put Alwyn with Rubbra rather then Bax. After hearing Tintagel I had to visit the place and I did. With Bax I think of rugged Irish coastlines or dark forests. Alwyn, in his symphonies and string quartets, like Rubbra, is more to admired for structure and musical thought rather then place. But he wrote pictorial film scores. :-\
A perfectly good point Lol. No blue touch paper going off here - after all it isn't Downing Street  8)
Actually Bax and Alwyn's music is quite different, although I feel that Alwyn's 3rd Symphony, for example, has something epic and Baxian about it. In some ways I see Rubbra as the successor to Vaughan Williams as there is a kind-of spiritual quality to his music.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on February 03, 2022, 10:56:41 AM
Quote from: springrite on February 03, 2022, 08:52:48 AM
I also like 3 very much, and maybe 6.
Me too, and eight.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on February 03, 2022, 04:56:49 PM
The composer who I associate Alwyn with is William Walton. There is something about the perky and lush orchestration and the rhythms they used that seem to me rather characteristic. Perhaps Alwyn is less ceremonial and less close to the "Queen", though.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: springrite on February 03, 2022, 10:22:58 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on February 03, 2022, 04:56:49 PM
The composer who I associate Alwyn with is William Walton. There is something about the perky and lush orchestration and the rhythms they used that seem to me rather characteristic. Perhaps Alwyn is less ceremonial and less close to the "Queen", though.
Yes, but Walton's music is "English" more in an "imperialistic" way. Alwyn is not like that at all.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Symphonic Addict on February 03, 2022, 11:10:06 PM
Quote from: springrite on February 03, 2022, 10:22:58 PM
Yes, but Walton's music is "English" more in an "imperialistic" way. Alwyn is not like that at all.

Exactly, there is that noticeable differentiation between both.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on February 04, 2022, 12:50:04 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 03, 2022, 10:55:50 AM
A perfectly good point Lol. No blue touch paper going off here - after all it isn't Downing Street  8)
Actually Bax and Alwyn's music is quite different, although I feel that Alwyn's 3rd Symphony, for example, has something epic and Baxian about it. In some ways I see Rubbra as the successor to Vaughan Williams as there is a kind-of spiritual quality to his music.

Coincidently Jeffrey, listening last night to a piece I know you like very much - but not your preferred recording - Alwyn's Pastoral Fantasia, I thought the same. A spiritual quality and the stamp of RVW all over it. So maybe there is more to connect Rubbra and Alwyn then separates them.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vers la flamme on February 04, 2022, 03:06:02 AM
The first piano concerto is really great. Quite neoclassical, very motivically oriented. I have the Howard Shelley/Hickox/LSO on Chandos. Thinking maybe I ought to get the Naxos recording with Peter Donohoe. I generally like his work.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on February 04, 2022, 06:58:47 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on February 04, 2022, 03:06:02 AM
The first piano concerto is really great. Quite neoclassical, very motivically oriented. I have the Howard Shelley/Hickox/LSO on Chandos. Thinking maybe I ought to get the Naxos recording with Peter Donohoe. I generally like his work.

Great, now listen to the 2nd PC! ;)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Roasted Swan on February 05, 2022, 04:35:52 AM
Quote from: kyjo on February 04, 2022, 06:58:47 AM
Great, now listen to the 2nd PC! ;)

are you sure you're not on royalties for the 2nd PC........!?!? :)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on February 05, 2022, 11:47:11 AM
Quote from: Irons on February 04, 2022, 12:50:04 AM
Coincidently Jeffrey, listening last night to a piece I know you like very much - but not your preferred recording - Alwyn's Pastoral Fantasia, I thought the same. A spiritual quality and the stamp of RVW all over it. So maybe there is more to connect Rubbra and Alwyn then separates them.
Good point Lol and I can see what you mean.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vers la flamme on February 06, 2022, 06:11:12 AM
Quote from: kyjo on February 04, 2022, 06:58:47 AM
Great, now listen to the 2nd PC! ;)

Need to get the Naxos disc with the two. But I've bought a ton of Alwyn lately. I ought to take a break. I'll get on that eventually.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 28, 2022, 01:20:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/m7psqaF.jpg)

A hugely enjoyable CD of Alwyn's works for solo piano. "Night Thoughts" although slight at 4.51 I thought a masterpiece but the biggest and most important work are the Fantasy-Waltzes. Fascinating to read that Alwyn wrote and dedicated them to the great New Zealand pianist Richard Farrell who played the first performance at Broadcasting House. The time-line is very short as Alwyn composed the waltzes in 1956/7 and Farrell was tragically killed aged 32 in a car accident at Arundel, Sussex in 1958.

     
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2022, 10:28:17 PM
Important piece of Alwyn news.
Joe Alwyn is the great grandson of the composer  ;D
https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/01/taylor-swift-plans-wedding-with-joe-alwyn-after-secret-engagement-16923904/
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: relm1 on July 20, 2022, 06:21:17 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 30, 2022, 10:28:17 PM
Important piece of Alwyn news.
Joe Alwyn is the great grandson of the composer  ;D
https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/01/taylor-swift-plans-wedding-with-joe-alwyn-after-secret-engagement-16923904/

Well, I can't say I predicted that.  Nice - wish them both well.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on July 20, 2022, 07:23:05 AM
The finale resting place of William Alwyn and Doreen Carwithen could not be more peaceful and yet at the same time more impressive.

(https://i.imgur.com/ebtwii9.jpg)

A massive medieval church Holy Trinity cannot but be the focal point of the tiny village of Blythburgh. I can honestly say I didn't see another human soul during our visit.

(https://i.imgur.com/VzF4xYu.jpg)

Just outside the church gate an angel atop of a high totem caught my eye. Below is a plaque bearing the names of residents of Blythburgh who perished in the two world wars. The list is not that long but as I say Blythburgh is small.

(https://i.imgur.com/QY6n2Cf.jpg)

Finding Alwyn's grave turned out to be much easier then Britten's last year although all we had to go on was the shape of the headstone. Coincidently the distance between Britten's and Alwyn's final resting places is only 12 miles. I did wonder if there was a closeness between the two men in life.

Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Papy Oli on July 20, 2022, 07:53:48 AM
Lovely pictures, Lol. That church in Blyhtburgh is gorgeous inside and out.

Enjoy your trip in Suffolk/East Anglia. It is a special neck of the woods.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on July 20, 2022, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: Papy Oli on July 20, 2022, 07:53:48 AM
Lovely pictures, Lol. That church in Blyhtburgh is gorgeous inside and out.

Enjoy your trip in Suffolk/East Anglia. It is a special neck of the woods.
+1 Great photos Lol. Good to see Alwyn's and Doreen's graves.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on July 21, 2022, 07:36:32 AM
Quote from: Papy Oli on July 20, 2022, 07:53:48 AM
Lovely pictures, Lol. That church in Blyhtburgh is gorgeous inside and out.

Enjoy your trip in Suffolk/East Anglia. It is a special neck of the woods.

I would have liked to have entered the church, Olivier. But unfortunately only open to the public on Thursdays.

As the rest of the UK sweltered we enjoyed a sea breeze off the coast of Aldeburgh. 8)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on July 21, 2022, 07:43:42 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 20, 2022, 10:32:10 PM
+1 Great photos Lol. Good to see Alwyn's and Doreen's graves.

I thought maybe seeking out composer's graves a bit odd, Jeffrey. But speaking to someone while away who combs the country looking for birdbaths I felt better. If nothing else a reason to visit a town or country.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Maestro267 on July 21, 2022, 07:47:01 AM
Nothing wrong with paying one's respects.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: DavidW on July 21, 2022, 08:26:52 AM
Quote from: Irons on July 21, 2022, 07:43:42 AM
I thought maybe seeking out composer's graves a bit odd, Jeffrey.

It provides a tangible connection to someone you admire but only knew abstractly.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on July 22, 2022, 02:57:42 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 21, 2022, 07:47:01 AM
Nothing wrong with paying one's respects.

Quote from: DavidW on July 21, 2022, 08:26:52 AM
It provides a tangible connection to someone you admire but only knew abstractly.

"Connection" is the right word. Something more then listening to the music. Two for the price of one in the case of Mr and Mrs Alwyn.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on November 19, 2022, 11:33:38 AM
On Friday I was showing my History of Art class a very old BBC TV documentary about the sculptor Henry Moore and I was pleased to note that the music was written by William Alwyn. I would imagine that they used existing chamber works by Alwyn rather than the music being specially composed for the documentary, but I may be wrong.
Here is the TV programme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZAde-PBoD8

Henry Moore's own work has occasionally been featured on LP/CD sleeves:
(//)
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on November 21, 2022, 12:07:45 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on November 19, 2022, 11:33:38 AM
On Friday I was showing my History of Art class a very old BBC TV documentary about the sculptor Henry Moore and I was pleased to note that the music was written by William Alwyn. I would imagine that they used existing chamber works by Alwyn rather than the music being specially composed for the documentary, but I may be wrong.
Here is the TV programme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZAde-PBoD8

Henry Moore's own work has occasionally been featured on LP/CD sleeves:
(//)

Enjoyed the documentary, Jeffrey. I have admired his work at Snape Maltings which is as far as my knowledge of Henry Moore goes. Alwyn's score is far too good to be just incidental music written for a television programme.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on November 21, 2022, 12:28:02 AM
Quote from: Irons on November 21, 2022, 12:07:45 AM
Enjoyed the documentary, Jeffrey. I have admired his work at Snape Maltings which is as far as my knowledge of Henry Moore goes. Alwyn's score is far too good to be just incidental music written for a television programme.
Yes, I agree Lol and I'm glad that you enjoyed the TV programme.
I like discovering, by accident, music that I've only come across when showing documentaries to my students; examples are the start of Britten's Violin Concerto (used as introductory music for an old BBC Schools TV programme on 20th Century History) and an extract from Copland's 'Statements for Orchestra' used as part of a fascinating, collage-like, programme about the Great Depression in the USA and the Wall Street Crash ('Buddy can you spare a dime?'). I once watched a documentary about Henry Moore which used Lutostawski's 'Concerto for Orchestra' and one about the Finnish Architect Alvar Aalto which made effective use of Klami's 'Kalevala Suite'.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on June 01, 2023, 09:20:26 AM
Was recently listening to this splendid disc:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51cwZy0O3zL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

The Oboe Concerto (accompanied by strings and harp) is an enchanting composition - dare I say I prefer it to RVW's? And the three Concerti Grossi are all splendidly concise yet meaty works - there's not a hint of desiccated neoclassicism about them. Despite their obvious tonal grounding there are passages of dark chromaticism throughout which are quite gripping. I particularly loved the prominent writing for trumpet and timpani in No. 1, and No. 2 could be counted amongst the great English works for string orchestra. No. 3 closes unexpectedly with a desolate, sorrowful slow movement, which at 7 minutes in length is the most extended movement in all three works. Just wonderful music all-around, in committed and full-bodied performances.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on June 01, 2023, 10:13:40 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 01, 2023, 09:20:26 AMWas recently listening to this splendid disc:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51cwZy0O3zL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

The Oboe Concerto (accompanied by strings and harp) is an enchanting composition - dare I say I prefer it to RVW's? And the three Concerti Grossi are all splendidly concise yet meaty works - there's not a hint of desiccated neoclassicism about them. Despite their obvious tonal grounding there are passages of dark chromaticism throughout which are quite gripping. I particularly loved the prominent writing for trumpet and timpani in No. 1, and No. 2 could be counted amongst the great English works for string orchestra. No. 3 closes unexpectedly with a desolate, sorrowful slow movement, which at 7 minutes in length is the most extended movement in all three works. Just wonderful music all-around, in committed and full-bodied performances.

Excellent, Kyle, thank you. Once I've digested the Lloyd Jones releases, the Hickox are next on the playlist.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on June 02, 2023, 06:24:03 AM
There is nothing quite like immersing yourself in the works of a composer, to learn to understand them, familiarise yourself with their work, and to learn to appreciate what previously hasn't grabbed your attention. I've been doing that for the last week or so with William Alwyn, because although I kind of know him, I haven't really ever felt connected to his writing or wanted to revisit it when the need for music is on me. I know he is good, but I can't say I have ever been hugely impressed with him. Not all composers grab everyone, I know, but I am really pleased to say that I am at the stage where familiarity is starting to make a difference. I felt the same with Bax years ago, and I now rate him incredibly highly, so am really glad this is happening. Alwyn's symphonies, in particular, are beginning to take real root, as are pieces like the Oboe & Harp Concerto, Lyra Angelica, the Sinfonietta for Strings, Elizabethan Dances, Concerto for Flute and 8 Wind Instruments, and more. Lots more listening to come, I think.

Particular appreciation goes to @Lisztianwagner and @Harry, whose recent postings made me shake myself and take the plunge!
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Lisztianwagner on June 02, 2023, 09:31:48 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on June 02, 2023, 06:24:03 AMThere is nothing quite like immersing yourself in the works of a composer, to learn to understand them, familiarise yourself with their work, and to learn to appreciate what previously hasn't grabbed your attention. I've been doing that for the last week or so with William Alwyn, because although I kind of know him, I haven't really ever felt connected to his writing or wanted to revisit it when the need for music is on me. I know he is good, but I can't say I have ever been hugely impressed with him. Not all composers grab everyone, I know, but I am really pleased to say that I am at the stage where familiarity is starting to make a difference. I felt the same with Bax years ago, and I now rate him incredibly highly, so am really glad this is happening. Alwyn's symphonies, in particular, are beginning to take real root, as are pieces like the Oboe & Harp Concerto, Lyra Angelica, the Sinfonietta for Strings, Elizabethan Dances, Concerto for Flute and 8 Wind Instruments, and more. Lots more listening to come, I think.

Particular appreciation goes to @Lisztianwagner and @Harry, whose recent postings made me shake myself and take the plunge!
You're welcome, sharing our musical impressions and learning from each other is one of the best aspects of this forum. That's great you've improved your opinion about Alwyn, he's a composer absolutely worth exploring; I've recently learnt to appreciate his music very much too, it's very compelling and beautifully suggestive.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 02, 2023, 11:45:17 PM
Quote from: kyjo on June 01, 2023, 09:20:26 AMWas recently listening to this splendid disc:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51cwZy0O3zL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

The Oboe Concerto (accompanied by strings and harp) is an enchanting composition - dare I say I prefer it to RVW's? And the three Concerti Grossi are all splendidly concise yet meaty works - there's not a hint of desiccated neoclassicism about them. Despite their obvious tonal grounding there are passages of dark chromaticism throughout which are quite gripping. I particularly loved the prominent writing for trumpet and timpani in No. 1, and No. 2 could be counted amongst the great English works for string orchestra. No. 3 closes unexpectedly with a desolate, sorrowful slow movement, which at 7 minutes in length is the most extended movement in all three works. Just wonderful music all-around, in committed and full-bodied performances.

Nicely summed up. I would add that there is not a smidgen of sameness between the three Concerti Grossi. They can be heard and enjoyed in one go. I found the Oboe Concerto more modern then expected. An instrument long associated with English pastoralism, Alwyn doesn't allow that to cramp his style.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on June 03, 2023, 06:41:11 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on June 01, 2023, 10:13:40 AMExcellent, Kyle, thank you. Once I've digested the Lloyd Jones releases, the Hickox are next on the playlist.

You're welcome, Danny! Not to knock Lloyd-Jones, but Hickox's Alwyn series is just fantastic, so I'm sure you'll find much to enjoy in it. Doing some brief comparisons, I noticed that Hickox's recordings have a richer string sonority than Lloyd-Jones' (partly due to Chandos' sonics, perhaps) which to me is an important factor.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: kyjo on June 03, 2023, 06:52:50 AM
Quote from: Irons on June 02, 2023, 11:45:17 PMNicely summed up. I would add that there is not a smidgen of sameness between the three Concerti Grossi. They can be heard and enjoyed in one go. I found the Oboe Concerto more modern then expected. An instrument long associated with English pastoralism, Alwyn doesn't allow that to cramp his style.

Indeed, each of the three Concerti Grossi is very distinct in character yet still all recognizably from the same pen. In these works and the Oboe Concerto, I was engrossed by Alwyn's piquant harmonic language which is warmly consonant at one moment and chromatically unstable the next.

Overall, Alwyn was a very consistent composer who rarely disappoints (except for perhaps his rather acerbic String Quartets nos. 2 and 3, I wasn't too taken with those). His Symphonies 2, 3, and 5, Piano Concerto no. 2 (probably my favorite work of his, just tremendous!!), Lyra Angelica, Concerti Grossi, String Quartet no. 1, Miss Julie (opera), and Odd Man Out (film score) are all firm favorites of mine.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vers la flamme on June 03, 2023, 07:49:21 AM
Personally, I prefer the Lloyd-Jones performances to the Hickox, though I do like both.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on June 03, 2023, 10:09:43 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 03, 2023, 06:41:11 AMYou're welcome, Danny! Not to knock Lloyd-Jones, but Hickox's Alwyn series is just fantastic, so I'm sure you'll find much to enjoy in it. Doing some brief comparisons, I noticed that Hickox's recordings have a richer string sonority than Lloyd-Jones' (partly due to Chandos' sonics, perhaps) which to me is an important factor.

I look forward to trying these. I love Hickox in Rubbra, so can't imagine these Alwyn symphonies will disappoint in any way. I do like Lloyd Jones, though 😁
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 03, 2023, 01:03:38 PM
Here's the definitive list  ;D
Symphony No.1 (Hickox)
Symphony No.2 (Alwyn)
Symphony No.3 (Hickox/Lloyd Jones)
Symphony No.4 (Hickox)
Symphony No.5 (Lloyd-Jones, Alwyn)
Actually all three complete cycles (Alwyn/Hickox/Lloyd-Jones) are very good but I think that Alwyn is best in No.2. Also, don't forget Barbirolli's historic performances of 1 and 2 (Dutton) and Beecham's recorded premiere of No.3.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on June 03, 2023, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 03, 2023, 01:03:38 PMHere's the definitive list  ;D
Symphony No.1 (Hickox)
Symphony No.2 (Alwyn)
Symphony No.3 (Hickox/Lloyd Jones)
Symphony No.4 (Hickox)
Symphony No.5 (Lloyd-Jones, Alwyn)
Actually all three complete cycles (Alwyn/Hickox/Lloyd-Jones) are very good but I think that Alwyn is best in No.2. Also, don't forget Barbirolli's historic performances of 1 and 2 (Dutton) and Beecham's recorded premiere of No.3.

This is immensely useful, Jeffrey, thank you. I've heard all the Lloyd Jones symphonies today, so will start to listen through the Hickox next, followed by the Alwyn. Just finished hearing #4 again... really connecting with it, I have to say.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: foxandpeng on June 05, 2023, 05:44:47 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 03, 2023, 01:03:38 PMHere's the definitive list  ;D
Symphony No.1 (Hickox)
Symphony No.2 (Alwyn)
Symphony No.3 (Hickox/Lloyd Jones)
Symphony No.4 (Hickox)
Symphony No.5 (Lloyd-Jones, Alwyn)
Actually all three complete cycles (Alwyn/Hickox/Lloyd-Jones) are very good but I think that Alwyn is best in No.2. Also, don't forget Barbirolli's historic performances of 1 and 2 (Dutton) and Beecham's recorded premiere of No.3.

Now playing Symphony 4 by Hickox from this fine list of recs. This is a great symphony, and one which made little impression on me at first, if I am brutally honest. I know familiarity through repeat listens always unlocks far more than initial plays, but I suspect I am a complete dope even after all these years, as it takes me forever to pick out tunes, nuances, fascinating runs, developmental shifts and recapitulations, and other highlights. It starts off as complete mush more often than I would like, and only later delivers any sort of coherence and value. The Lloyd Jones introduced #4 to me, so interested to see the difference with RH.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: Irons on June 05, 2023, 06:45:26 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 03, 2023, 06:52:50 AMIndeed, each of the three Concerti Grossi is very distinct in character yet still all recognizably from the same pen. In these works and the Oboe Concerto, I was engrossed by Alwyn's piquant harmonic language which is warmly consonant at one moment and chromatically unstable the next.

Overall, Alwyn was a very consistent composer who rarely disappoints (except for perhaps his rather acerbic String Quartets nos. 2 and 3, I wasn't too taken with those). His Symphonies 2, 3, and 5, Piano Concerto no. 2 (probably my favorite work of his, just tremendous!!), Lyra Angelica, Concerti Grossi, String Quartet no. 1, Miss Julie (opera), and Odd Man Out (film score) are all firm favorites of mine.


The first quartet is a fabulous piece, a slow movement to die for. I would add to your list Alwyn's works for piano which I believe his favoured medium. I listen to the CD below as much at least as any other Alwyn recording.
Title: Re: William Alwyn
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2023, 09:40:24 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on June 05, 2023, 05:44:47 AMNow playing Symphony 4 by Hickox from this fine list of recs. This is a great symphony, and one which made little impression on me at first, if I am brutally honest. I know familiarity through repeat listens always unlocks far more than initial plays, but I suspect I am a complete dope even after all these years, as it takes me forever to pick out tunes, nuances, fascinating runs, developmental shifts and recapitulations, and other highlights. It starts off as complete mush more often than I would like, and only later delivers any sort of coherence and value. The Lloyd Jones introduced #4 to me, so interested to see the difference with RH.
I love the first movement of the 4th Danny (a mini symphony itself) but I find the 2nd movement, with it's relentlessly repeating theme, rather banal but others will disagree. The 4th Symphony thus features my favourite and least favourite Alwyn symphony movement!