There looks to be something remarkable on the horizon in Sorabji land: a new Opus Clavicembalisticum recording by Jonathan Powell (who has given some acclaimed live performances while preparing for it), possibly on Altarus records. It may finally put to rest the issues people keep bringing up when recommending a recording of the work (the Madge/BIS in particular gets a lot of mud slung at it). This sort of makes up for Kevin Bowyer having to postpone the organ symphony no.2 premiere/recording due to (I think) ill health.
I am aware that this topic will die very quickly, as a) Sorabji fans are even less cool than Havergal Brian fans and b) unlike Brian, Sorabji doesn't even attract much mockery - just deadly silence :P
Wikipedia Sorabji article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaikhosru_Shapurji_Sorabji)
Wikipedia Opus C article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Clavicembalisticum)
Anyway, some Powell/Sorabji links for anyone interested (live performances):
http://rapidshare.com/files/19708076/Powell_live_Sorabji_Passeggiata_veneziana.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/19709640/Powell_live_Sorabji_Tango_Habanera.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/19712943/Powell_live_Sorabji_Djami.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/19714648/Powell_live_Sorabji_20_Frammenti.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/20667201/Powell_live_Sorabji_St_Betrand_de_Comminges.mp3
First part of Opus C posted on his website:
http://rapidshare.com/files/34048592/Sorabji_Opus_Clavicembalisticum_Powell_live_in_NYC_1_Introito.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/34052026/Sorabji_Opus_Clavicembalisticum_Powell_live_in_NYC_2_Preludio_Corale.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/34056176/Sorabji_Opus_Clavicembalisticum_Powell_live_in_NYC_3_Fuga_I.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/34059393/Sorabji_Opus_Clavicembalisticum_Powell_live_in_NYC_4_Fantasia.mp3
http://rapidshare.com/files/34065019/Sorabji_Opus_Clavicembalisticum_Powell_live_in_NYC_5_Fuga_II.mp3
Links only work for one file. :-\
Quote from: Lethe on September 11, 2007, 02:35:46 AM
a) Sorabji fans are even less cool than Havergal Brian fans
I'll never believe that! 8)
Great, thanks :-*
Have to admit not really giving much thought to Sorabji so far but this fairly sizable chunk of music looks like an opportunity to rectify that. It'll take some time to get all that from rapidshare but why not.
I've downloaded and listened to all of them since I made the post and must mention that there are a couple of crackles, but considering it's live, the clarity is very nice. I forgot the total strangeness of his sound world a little until they refreshed my memory - I found the OC first part so ridiculous that I had to listen to it two segments. I haven't really encountered anything like it before - not atonal, but dense and initially bewildering in a way comparable to some Schoenberg. The eclectic and eccentric sound world is also a bit like Messiaen, but instead of the spiritual, colourful playfulness of that composer, Sorabji can just be overpowering and occasionally oppressive. The most unusual thing is that it all has some kind of inner logic that keeps me listening. Truly weird...
The recent BIS disc of Etudes may be the best ever way to get into his work. The first quarter of the etudes collection (which would occupy around 7 CDs in total, apparently) are actually short pieces, his only sub-five minute ones that I am aware of (although with so much unperformed, I can hardly say that with confidence).
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 13, 2007, 11:40:38 AM
Links only work for one file. :-\
Hmm, I checked them again and all of them seem to be working okay for me - I can upload a couple somewhere else if you like (perhaps Mediafire)? It'll take a while as I don't have a super fast upload, but it's not bad enough to not want to do it at all.
Edit: Hope you like them too, Drasko.
I'll begin to rehost the files on MediaFire - less problematic than Rapidshare, and without the various downsides of places like Yousendit, Sendspace, Megaupload, etc.
Opus C, part 1
http://www.mediafire.com/?7pqgt11ltj2
http://www.mediafire.com/?fhbmsr0tgzc
http://www.mediafire.com/?0neginzsgj5
http://www.mediafire.com/?ft5o919tpws
http://www.mediafire.com/?0p2zsmz3szs
Random:
http://www.mediafire.com/?c9dyev0mz9h
http://www.mediafire.com/?5zsylbyge9y
http://www.mediafire.com/?8i49nx5xmx3
http://www.mediafire.com/?bxxmnz1yef2
http://www.mediafire.com/?dtmb3q7ftev
All added now.
"The quickkey you provided for file download was invalid. This is usually caused because the file is no longer stored on Mediafire. This occurs when the file is removed by the originating user or Mediafire."
Well, I am fricking cursed. I suppose the site thought I was spreading copyrighted material and pressed their Big Red Button. How irritating >:(
Quote from: Lethe on September 14, 2007, 03:49:39 AM
"The quickkey you provided for file download was invalid. This is usually caused because the file is no longer stored on Mediafire. This occurs when the file is removed by the originating user or Mediafire."
Well, I am fricking cursed. I suppose the site thought I was spreading copyrighted material and pressed their Big Red Button. How irritating >:(
Just tried some other mediafire links, none work, so you're not cursed 0:) it seems they have some problems.
edit: it works now
Everything works fine now. How about uploading the rest then? >:D
Fascinating stuff. Of course, i'm already acquainted with Sorabji but i never heard the OC before. Is he going to record the whole work?
Oh phew, it looks like it was just a blip on MediaFire's part. I wonder why they didn't use a "Under Maintenance" warning rather than "FILES DELETED", it was a bit scary :P I'll up the other three now.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 14, 2007, 07:14:07 AM
Is he going to record the whole work?
Yep, the recent live performances of it are apparently in preperation for a full recording. He's recorded some other Sorabji CDs for Altarus recently (two are very recent - the label looks to be stepping up production or something), so I assume it may appear on there, despite Ogdon's recording also being on that label - I imagine they may be seeking to supercede it, which is very likely given the quality of his interpretations versus Ogdon (plus more modern sound).
I'd like to listen to him, but I can't even say his name! :(
so if someone ever asks me "what is the hardest piano piece ever?" it's safe to say "Sorabji's Opus C" right?
(well, of course length is the main factor ;D )
Quote from: Corey on September 14, 2007, 07:38:36 AM
I'd like to listen to him, but I can't even say his name! :(
Fortunately I have yet to even try to say it out loud - the joy of ordering CDs online instead of in shops :D (plus very few friends with similar interests, of course)
Quote from: greg on September 14, 2007, 07:44:05 AM
so if someone ever asks me "what is the hardest piano piece ever?" it's safe to say "Sorabji's Opus C" right?
(well, of course length is the main factor ;D )
I guess so. These things can't really be "proven", as anybody can write a long piece, whether good or bad. The main thing that distinguishes OC as unusually difficult must be that it isn't a minimal or repetetive piece. It's dense as hell AND long.
He's of Indian descent, so I'm guessing the j in Sorabji is not silent, and therefore should be pronounced "Sor-ahb-jee". Can anyone confirm this?
I´m starting to explore this composer, and I decided to play one of his unperformed pieces one day! Perhabs the 5th sonata...I will try at least! Does anyone have any Sorabji scores, to make a copy? It´s a bit expensive for me as a student to buy them.
I have 4 different Sorabji scores, but not the 5th sonata.
Quote from: Bahamut on June 17, 2009, 02:57:00 PM
I have 4 different Sorabji scores, but not the 5th sonata.
wow :o Which ones? Is it possible to make a pdf scan? I would be very thankful if I could get them!
I have them all in pdf already- Piano Sonata 1, Opus C, 2 Piano Pieces, and Etudes 1-18 of the 100 Transcendental Etudes. PM if interested.
I have just got The 5th sonata OPUS ARCHIMAGICUM, and Symphonic nocturne as a copy of the manuscript. Very difficult to read! In the 5th sonata there are up to 7 staffs pr line. I just played the beginning of all the movements, and I was so moved by all of it! :D This is like the tradition of Liszt, Chopin, Scriabin, brought directly and perfectly into the atonal!
Tomorrow morning, the first thing I will do after break first is to start learning first mvt of the 5th sonata! :)
Great news! You will also have the honour of becoming one of the (probably less than) 100 people in the world who play Sorabji ;D
Quote from: Lethe on June 28, 2009, 02:36:21 PM
Great news! You will also have the honour of becoming one of the (probably less than) 100 people in the world who play Sorabji ;D
exactly! No one has ever played the 5th sonata. I just hope I can get permission to do it.
now I have studied almost one line of the 5th sonata! :D Then I just have around 1400 more lines left...
Lol, I think you might want to take this slowly. You do realize that you're playing some of the very hardest (if not the hardeset) piano works in the history of mankind, right?
hmmm it looks like it's never been publicly performed, as you say:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Kaikhosru_Sorabji#Works_for_solo_piano_2
unless there was an unknown performance in somebody's basement or something ;D
Quote from: Greg on July 01, 2009, 08:13:04 PM
Lol, I think you might want to take this slowly. You do realize that you're playing some of the very hardest (if not the hardeset) piano works in the history of mankind, right?
hmmm it looks like it's never been publicly performed, as you say:
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Kaikhosru_Sorabji#Works_for_solo_piano_2
unless there was an unknown performance in somebody's basement or something ;D
Yeah, I know it is definately one of the hardest pieces to play. I have planned to study the movements and record them one by one, since I will never get in a condition to play the entire piece 100% perfectly at once. But I can probably play every single movement perfect, it´s just a matter of time and work.
It is actually a very beautyful piece! 3rd mvt has some similarities with Ravels Gaspard and 2nd mvt is entirely octaves in 32th-notes non-stop.
It's great that you are able to do this. The folks at: http://www.sorabji-archive.co.uk/forum/index.php might be interested in any recorded movements and could probably offer advice on details of the music.
I ordered the scores from the Sorabji-Archive and found out, that the person who administrates it knew Sorabji personally and is a composer himself. He even dedicated a sonata to a pianist professor, who I have got a lesson from, so it seems like a small world. ;D
A small world when you're using the internet. ;D
I wonder what Archimagicum means. I just googled it, but with no result. The only thing that comes up it Sorabjis piece. I found also a bit sad news for me. Someone have decided to release a recording next year with the sonata. I would wish that I could be the first ever to perform it, but now it seems not so realistic. :( I hope that the pianist (don´t know his name) will change his mind, or else I will try to do it better than him. ;D
Does anyone knows what Archimagicum means?
There was also a long forword to the piece, but since it was a copy of the manuscript, it was so messy that I couldn´t even read a single word of it! :o And there seem to be no tempo marking.
Arch in Latin is roughly equivelent to "first/top" I think, and from Googling magicum, it does indeed seem to mean "magic". But even then, the term doesn't seem to make much sense...
Quote from: mikkeljs on July 06, 2009, 12:04:00 PM
I wonder what Archimagicum means. I just googled it, but with no result. The only thing that comes up it Sorabjis piece. I found also a bit sad news for me. Someone have decided to release a recording next year with the sonata. I would wish that I could be the first ever to perform it, but now it seems not so realistic. :( I hope that the pianist (don´t know his name) will change his mind, or else I will try to do it better than him. ;D
Does anyone knows what Archimagicum means?
There was also a long forword to the piece, but since it was a copy of the manuscript, it was so messy that I couldn´t even read a single word of it! :o And there seem to be no tempo marking.
Well, the "i" is interesting.
Arch- would be from Greek for "old" or "ancient."
With the "i" the derivation would more likely be from the Greek word for "lead" as in architect, "lead builder."
"Magicum" is Latin - neuter gender - for magical, but could be used as the noun for magic.
So, you have either "Ancient Magic" or "Leading Magic" or both!
I wonder if Sorabji knew just how pretentious many of his works were.
Ahh, I start to see a clear referrence to the music then! I have just scimmed it through, and parts of it, especially the last mvt, which has the title Archimagos reminded me of Messiaens God thema and the parallel motioned stepwise polyphony somehow sounds like a big organ in a cathedral!
Nice one, Cato :)
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 12:26:39 PM
I wonder if Sorabji knew just how pretentious many of his works were.
Of course he must've - I thought that was rather the point when composing 5 hour long musical pieces :D However, pretension is not the first thing I get from listening to them, but self-indlugence is. It's a fine line, of course. Fortunately he carries it off quite well, and was no doubt aware that he would always be a niche figure due to these qualities in his music...
Quote from: Lethe on July 06, 2009, 01:48:17 PM
Nice one, Cato :)
Of course he must've - I thought that was rather the point when composing 5 hour long musical pieces :D However, pretension is not the first thing I get from listening to them, but self-indlugence is. It's a fine line, of course. Fortunately he carries it off quite well, and was no doubt aware that he would always be a niche figure due to these qualities in his music...
What if a dusin of other composers wrote such long pieces too? Then it would seem like just a normal thing in contemporary music like miniatures or something as common as atonal daily food...
Quote from: mikkeljs on July 06, 2009, 12:04:00 PM
I wonder what Archimagicum means. I just googled it, but with no result. The only thing that comes up it Sorabjis piece. I found also a bit sad news for me. Someone have decided to release a recording next year with the sonata. I would wish that I could be the first ever to perform it, but now it seems not so realistic. :( I hope that the pianist (don´t know his name) will change his mind, or else I will try to do it better than him. ;D
Does anyone knows what Archimagicum means?
There was also a long forword to the piece, but since it was a copy of the manuscript, it was so messy that I couldn´t even read a single word of it! :o And there seem to be no tempo marking.
Hey, even if you're the second, that's not too bad. If you recorded it, there would only be two recordings, after all (and it's not guaranteed that everyone will like the other guy's recording better than yours.) Definitely give it a shot, either way.
Quote from: mikkeljs on July 06, 2009, 02:00:04 PM
What if a dusin of other composers wrote such long pieces too? Then it would seem like just a normal thing in contemporary music like miniatures or something as common as atonal daily food...
There's nothing normal about contemporary music. I mean, isn't that the point?
Maybe a bit tangential, but when I listen to those long works - while they do ramble a little and can hardly be listened to in the same way that Beethoven's sonatas can be, they never resort to minimalism or other similar trance-like (i.e. cop-out :P) structures to extend them. It's all meat rather than lots of gruel. Nor is it always notes for the sake of notes either, as the fugues, nocturnal moments, and everything else are all filled with the spark of a truly restless, fertile mind. I'll agree that it's far from perfect - by its nature cannot be, but it can be so good if it's a style that appeals to the listener.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on July 06, 2009, 02:16:23 PM
There's nothing normal about contemporary music. I mean, isn't that the point?
I meant normal in the sence of anti-unnormal. ;D
Quote from: Greg on July 06, 2009, 02:14:15 PM
Hey, even if you're the second, that's not too bad. If you recorded it, there would only be two recordings, after all (and it's not guaranteed that everyone will like the other guy's recording better than yours.) Definitely give it a shot, either way.
thanks for the optimism! :) I just felt in love with that piece.
Possibly this link has been flagged up elsewhere previously but I thought I'd mention it here as it's pertinent to anyone interested in Sorabji's music. It's a streaming two part radio program from 1973 featuring an essay by Sorabji scholar Erik Chisholm and featuring rare recordings of works played by Sorabji himself; courtesy of Internet Archive...
http://www.archive.org/details/AM_1973_11_08 (http://www.archive.org/details/AM_1973_11_08)
I should find some Sorabji recordings. What little I have heard have been promising. But here in China, unless Sir Richardo Clyderman plays them, good luck finding anything!
Quote from: springrite on November 10, 2009, 07:25:40 AM
I should find some Sorabji recordings. What little I have heard have been promising. But here in China, unless Sir Richardo Clyderman plays them, good luck finding anything!
;D ;D
There are some on Jonathan Powell's website
http://jonathanpowell.wordpress.com/recordings/
A few of us witnessed Jonathan play through the entire Sequentia Cyclica super Dies Irae ex Missa Pro Defunctis (1948-9) yesterday in preparation for the first complete performance which he's giving on Friday in Glasgow. An extraordinary experience. At 7 hours, it's not something you'll get to hear that often.
Quote from: Dax on June 13, 2010, 01:00:18 AM
There are some on Jonathan Powell's website
http://jonathanpowell.wordpress.com/recordings/
A few of us witnessed Jonathan play through the entire Sequentia Cyclica super Dies Irae ex Missa Pro Defunctis (1948-9) yesterday in preparation for the first complete performance which he's giving on Friday in Glasgow. An extraordinary experience. At 7 hours, it's not something you'll get to hear that often.
Perfect for listening on a flight then!
Quote from: mikkeljs on June 28, 2009, 02:19:32 PM
I have just got The 5th sonata OPUS ARCHIMAGICUM, and Symphonic nocturne as a copy of the manuscript. Very difficult to read! In the 5th sonata there are up to 7 staffs pr line. I just played the beginning of all the movements, and I was so moved by all of it! :D This is like the tradition of Liszt, Chopin, Scriabin, brought directly and perfectly into the atonal!
Tomorrow morning, the first thing I will do after break first is to start learning first mvt of the 5th sonata! :)
There's a recording of it on the horizon, but he hasn't updated his site in months...
http://www.opusarchimagicum.com/main.html
Hmm... the Symphony No.5 for solo piano 'Symphonia brevis' is being released on Altarus soon. It's nice how much of his music is being recorded, some almost as fast as it is being typeset (this will presumably also be the case for the 5th piano sonata), but I had to giggle especially when I saw this two hour work described as startlingly compressed (http://www.sorabji-archive.co.uk/recordings/CD.php?cdid=37).
Hmm, could be a rabbithole (caution, Karl, caution) . . . .
I am ordering the Ogdon recording of the mega opus when I return to Beijing in two weeks. I have just one Sorabji CD and that needs to be corrected!
I almost get the sense that none of his music would fit onto only one disc . . . .
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 18, 2011, 07:20:37 AM
I almost get the sense that none of his music would fit onto only one disc . . . .
A few do, but those are for powdercake wusses.
Bring that hammer down, Paul!
QuoteTo the everlasting glory of those few men blessed and sanctified in the curses and execrations of those many whose praise is eternal damnation.
Pretty trippy.
Or is it just misanthropic? ; )
Quote from: springrite on May 18, 2011, 07:12:41 AM
I am ordering the Ogdon recording of the mega opus when I return to Beijing in two weeks. . . .
I think that may be just a matter of time for myself, too, Paul . . . .
Found a beautiful first edition of Sorabji's book of musings (mostly misanthropic ones, as Karl suggests!) mi Contra Fa the other week. A real treasure. He's a fascinating figure in many many ways.
It has recently come to my attention that the Dutch independent Internet radio broadcaster "De Concertzender" (http://www.concertzender.nl/ (http://www.concertzender.nl/)) has plans to broadcast (in two parts) Sorabji's over 8 hours long Second Organ Symphony (1929-1932). This is a work that has been performed complete only two times in history (in the summer of 2010) and never been broadcast nor released commercially.
The performance of this piece is that of Kevin Bowyer, who spent some 20 years working on this piece on and off. Given the difficulties involved in preparing a performance of a work as complex and long as this one, Mr Bowyer has requested that the broadcasts be mixed; hence the 1st movement (about 80 minutes) will come from a partial performance given in York, the 2nd movement (some 270 minutes) will be taken from the world premiere of the work in Glasgow, and the 3rd movement (roughly 180 minutes) will also be taken from the Glasgow performance, but its third section will be replaced with a partial performance that took place in Berlin.
While each of the broadcasts will be repeated once (as well as available for later listening), the key dates are 11 May and 25 May. Each of them will start at midnight (in the Netherlands), and the first will include movements 1 and 2, while the second will include the 3rd movement. In addition to that, both broadcasts will include Mr Bowyer's recordings of various works by Alkan, and the second will also include his 1988 recording of Sorabji's 1st Organ Symphony.
For the full details about the background and realisation of this event see http://sorabji-archive.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=469.0 (http://sorabji-archive.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=469.0).
I hope this piques the interest of at least some of you! ;)
Sacrée vache!
Quote from: karlhenning on April 22, 2012, 08:26:42 AM
Sacrée vache!
Just out of curiosity, does this mean you won't be listening?
Quote from: Sequentia on April 30, 2012, 07:29:00 AM
Just out of curiosity, does this mean you won't be listening?
No, doesn't mean that at all.
At that link, I am not finding any intuitive path to the relevant information; do you mind summarizing here?
Quote from: karlhenning on April 30, 2012, 07:38:39 AM
At that link, I am not finding any intuitive path to the relevant information; do you mind summarizing here?
The first broadcast is mentioned at http://www.concertzender.nl/programmagids.php?month=1&date=2012-05-10. All broadcasts start at midnight (Dutch time), and will take place on 11 May, 18 May (repeat), 25 May, and 1 June (repeat of 25/5). The remaining details can be found at http://sorabji-archive.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=469.0. Hopefully there is no confusion now!
At this instant, I am 11 minutes into listening to Ogdon's recording of Opus Clavicembalisticum on Youtube.
Urk. That is quite enough.
*pulls plug at 12 minutes*
Quote from: orfeo on May 06, 2012, 07:11:01 AM
At this instant, I am 11 minutes into listening to Ogdon's recording of Opus Clavicembalisticum on Youtube.
Urk. That is quite enough.
*pulls plug at 12 minutes*
Very briefly (as I'm busy now and will be even more in the future): Ogdon's recording sucks (as does Madge's). If you don't like Sorabji, then fine, but please refrain from judging his music on the basis of those two recordings.
There is (was?) a recording of Jonathan Powell playing the first part of Opus Clavicembalisticum floating around on the internet (I think it was on his website for a time). If you can find it, I urge you to listen to it. It sounds like a completely different work in the hands of a more than competent interpreter like Powell. Remember, John Ogdon's recording was done shortly before his death, and his best playing days were behind him (it's amazing he did it at all), and, well, Madge's is a travesty. Powell really opens up your eyes to the work if you only know how Odgon and Madge have played it. Trust me, it really is a worthwhile work!
Quote from: lescamil on May 07, 2012, 03:23:00 PMThere is (was?) a recording of Jonathan Powell playing the first part of Opus Clavicembalisticum floating around on the internet (I think it was on his website for a time). If you can find it, I urge you to listen to it. It sounds like a completely different work in the hands of a more than competent interpreter like Powell. Remember, John Ogdon's recording was done shortly before his death, and his best playing days were behind him (it's amazing he did it at all), and, well, Madge's is a travesty. Powell really opens up your eyes to the work if you only know how Odgon and Madge have played it. Trust me, it really is a worthwhile work!
It's available here:
http://www.sorabji-files.com/music.php
Quote from: Sequentia on May 09, 2012, 10:54:33 AM
It's available here:
http://www.sorabji-files.com/music.php
Thanks for that link.
Any interesting developments in terms of recordings and performances of Sorabji's work? Gulistan was my gateway drug, and my ears are always flapping in the wind for Sorabji performances. ( I don't always feel like seventy-two hours of piano noodling, but when I do... :-* )
Actually, one of the aspects that charm me about Sorabji is how little filler there is. Certainly some repetition is inevitable, but listening to his works is like watching a lava lamp: the shapes are familiar, but always just a little different.
Sorabji's music has fascinated me for a long time-- holds up to repeated listening sessions without boredom or fatigue. Whirling patterns, layered and intertwined, but coherent throughout. Nears the top of my modern composers "favorites" list.
I decided that as Brain was getting mainstream (nearly all the symphonies recorded now) I had better start on Sorabji.
:)
[In fact one of the first CDs I never saw was the BIS Madge version of the OC, this was c 1988 in Heffers Bookshop Music Department, Cambridge UK. After seeing this I looked up Sorabji in reference works, so I have always been aware of him, without ever hearing a note of his music].
So far I have only been listening to what you can hear on Youtube, mainly the three nocturnes: Le jardin parfumé, Djami and Gulistan and some of the Transcendental Studies.
I have been favourably impressed with these, normally I am bored by piano music, but these pieces seem to impress me despite having little obvious structure, or thematic unity, and mixing textures and tonal and atonal passages seemingly at random. I think I like them because I sense that Sorabji is so busy trying to cram the whole of experience into each piece that he has no time to lapse into the 'pianistic' mode. In Le jardin parfumé I can 'hear' the perfume, and the wind, rain, birdsong, and the various moods of the music succeeding one another seemingly at random and it seems to create a record of vibrant sensual being.
Sorabji seems to annoy a lot of people and the most common comment is that his music is 'pretentious'. To me this seems like missing the point, to be pretentious he would have to be pointing to this or that passage as of the highest value, but instead the complexity and scale of music seems to be saying that no individual passage is of any particular importance, what is significant is consciousness and the technique that concatenates them.
Anyway, I will carry on investigating this music.
Just a couple of questions:
1. As Sorabji's music for solo piano is so very difficult, why hasn't anyone arranged some of his pieces for two or three pianos, to spread the notes around as it were?
2. I see that Powell's recordings of the OC have disappeared from the internet, does this mean that a recording has been issued/is about to be issued?
That 2nd line "never" doesn't chime with me, and I never heard of Brain - you mean Edgar Fliflet Bræin? ;)
[asin]B000026242[/asin]
Havergal Brain (1876-1972), so called because only intelligent people can appreciate his music :)
I don't have a brain, so I have no idea which CD was the first one i never saw.
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on August 03, 2016, 04:18:24 PM
[In fact one of the first CDs I never saw was the BIS Madge version of the OC,
Typo for 'ever'.
I would have thought the substance of a comment is what you reply to, not the typos, however funny they may be.
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on August 04, 2016, 01:48:21 PM
Typo for 'ever'.
I would have thought the substance of a comment is what you reply to, not the typos, however funny they may be.
Sorry for teasing you just a little, and nice to have some company in the "masters of typos" department. I have just one Sorabji CD, which I enjoy quite a lot:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410FAT7AJNL.jpg)
Looks like that one is out of the catalogue at the moment.
Quote from: The new erato on August 04, 2016, 08:57:27 PM
Sorry for teasing you just a little, and nice to have some company in the "masters of typos" department. I have just one Sorabji CD, which I enjoy quite a lot:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410FAT7AJNL.jpg)
Gulistan is great. Jonathan Powell's reading of the work is just as essential as Hopkins'. The other two nocturnes, Djami and Le Jardin Parfumé, are also essential listening. Powell's Djami is a stunner in particular. The three nocturnes are his most approachable original works, in my opinion (obviously the four pastiches will be favorites). They highlight his sense of fantastical, athematic writing and improvisatory style.
Whoever said I should reexamine Scriabin might've had something there... 'Galustan' sounds great, with Sorabji playing in his living room, on YT... gotta love the "garlands", ever cascading, sickly sweet hothouse flowers...
I was listening to more of the Transcendental Studies and they haven't palled yet.
I was thinking of how I feel listening to Sorabji's music, and it occurs to me, as I said before, that he was mystic, concerned in his music is describe everything, not just certain aspects of things. Do any of you know the Borges' story 'The Aleph'? The aleph is a concept in Jewish mysticism, a point in space from which all other points in the Universe can be observed at once. The Borges story is an amusing description of the narrator's experience of an aleph. Anyway, sounds like a pretty good analogy for listening to a piece by Sorabji.
I've just seen this thread and others here that mention Sorabji so, whilst the concept of a bucket and spade as an aid to appreciating his music is is clear as the mud on the beach at Weston-super-Mare, I thought that, for those here who are interested but might not already be aware, there is a website dedicated to him and his work at www.sorabji-archive.co.uk which includes a brochure with a catalogue of his scores, literary writings and discography and much other information besides. Requests for information and material are welcomed at sorabji-archive@lineone.net .
The website also includes a link to the Sorabji forum on which, just in the past 24 hours or so, a thread on "favourite Sorabji works" has been initiated. I have responded to it as follows:
"What's so good about this topic is that, over the years, it has actually become increasingly possible for people to choose their "favourite Sorabji works". At the beginning of 1980, for example, there had been a handful of performances by Yonty Solomon and Michael Habermann, there were no commercial recordings and very few scores were available; today, there have been many hundreds of performances and/or broadcasts by dozens of performers in at least 25 countries, there are at least 40 recordings of or including his work and every known score is available both on paper and in .pdf format, many in splendid typeset editions. Long may this continue and long may ever greater numbers of listeners be given more and more opportunities to decide for themselves which are their favourite Sorabji works."
I hope that this is helpful.
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on November 05, 2016, 03:55:35 PM
Give me more Sorabji, I DEMAND MORE! :-\
Well, as I've pointed out above, there's now a fair amount of his work around and it is indeed fortunate that almost all of those 40 or so recordings remain available to this day. A further clutch of them is anticipated between now and the end of next year (10 or more CDs, in fact) and, Kevin Bowyer also plans to record all three of his organ symphonies but that project, which will almost certainly require at least 16 CDs(!), looks to be a few years away yet.
Jonathan Powell is putting together a European tour of
Opus Clavicembalisticum begining next year and Kevin Bowyer is aiming to do the same for the first two organ symphonies commencing 2018, although he's scheduled to give the US première of the monster second in Iowa University on 10 February next.
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on November 06, 2016, 12:40:39 PM
Thanks very much for that, I came across that forum at one point but I didn't end up joining for some reason. There are many, many things I am interested in learning about his work! ;D
Well, the website has a good deal of information and there are two books -
Sorabji: A Critical Celebration, ed. Prof. Paul Rapoport (available from The Sorabji Archive) and the more recent (and ongoing)
Opus Sorabjianum by Prof. Marc-André Roberge which is available free to download from the Sorabji Resource Site at http://www.mus.ulaval.ca/roberge/srs/07-prese.htm ; the Sorabji Reource Site at http://www.mus.ulaval.ca/roberge/srs/index.htm also has a wealth of other information.
Should you have any questions or need scores, literary writings &c., please feel free to write to sorabji-archive@lineone.net . In the meantime, you are, of course, welcome to join the forum!
Sorabji: Highlights from the organ symphonies
ATTENTION ALL ORGANISTS! (and anyone else interested, of course)...
The organist Kevin Bowyer has posted the following on his Facebook page:
"THERE'S NO ORGAN MUSIC BY K S SORABJI THAT WILL FIT INTO A NORMAL CONCERT PROGRAMME". This is now false!
I'm preparing a series of extracts from the middle movement of Symphony 2, varying in length from 3 to 10 minutes, each able to stand alone in a concert programme. Individual variations (a pair of variations in one case) that are effectively concert studies, quite able to hold their own without the rest of the movement. There'll be eight small volumes, just a few pages each, the first of which will be issued in March 2017. They will include comprehensive and detailed suggestions as to how to go about tackling the various specific difficulties. This is the mature Sorabji - lyrical, fiery, colourful, dramatic, mercurial, elegant, romantic, totally original. If you're only familiar with the dark, volcanic deity of the first symphony, this is a voice you won't have heard yet. Can't wait? The Toccata from Symphony 2, although not itself part of my forthcoming series, is already available separately from the Sorabji Archive, as print or PDF download. The address is http://www.sorabji-archive.co.uk.
Occupying about 14 minutes in performance, the Toccata is a tough nut to crack, tougher than anything in the upcoming series, but there will be players out there who can do it - and I've no doubt they will. What's kept the name of K S Sorabji separate from the mainstream of 20th century organ music history is the fact that his 17 hours of organ music is given to us in just three huge pieces, overwhelmingly problematic to rehearse and schedule. But he is a genius, largely unknown to organists, though deserving of a place at the top table of truly great writers for the instrument. I hope that, with this new prospect, things are about to change."
Since the world première of Sorabji's Organ Symphony No.1 almost 30 years ago, Sorabji's works for organ solo have been associated almost exclusively with just one name – the extraordinary virtuoso organist Kevin Bowyer.
Sorabji's organ music comprises just three symphonies, each cast in three movements, the first of relatively modest proportions (a mere bagatelle, indeed, at a whisker under 2 hours!) and the other two of a monumentality rare even for Sorabji, their durations being at least 8 hours apiece!
So far, Kevin has recorded Organ Symphony No. 1 (released in 1989 and broadcast on BBC Radio 3 in 1991) and performed it on seven subsequent occasions in as many countries; he has also given two complete and several partial performances of Organ Symphony No. 2, with a third complete performance scheduled for 10 February 2017 in University of Iowa, US.
Kevin's remarkable critical typeset editions of all three symphonies are a tremendous contribution to the project to edit all of Sorabji's scores; however, the prospect of preparing performances of the second and third of them remains uniquely daunting. Kevin's concern about the risk that this will keep them outside the mainstream of organ repertoire is matched by his desire – which many surely share – to hear at least something of this music played by other organists and to encourage them to take up this challenge.
Kevin's aim is therefore to persuade organists to prepare these items as standalone pieces for inclusion in recital programmes, with the additional hope that some might be selected by juries of international organ competitions as test pieces for candidates.
This project is accordingly launched with the brilliantly effervescent celestial firework display that is the Toccata which closes the opening section of the finale of Organ Symphony No. 2; it is a coruscating virtuoso display piece of the highest order that transcends all expectations of an organ toccata. This is already available separately; please visit the catalogue of works on the Sorabji Archive website (www.sorabji-archive.co.uk ) for information about it; copies of this, either in paper format or as a .pdf file, may be obtained by emailing sorabji-archive.co.uk .
Watch this space for the addition of more such extracts in 2017 (these will be taken from the symphony's massive middle movement Theme and Variations).
We wish the very best of success to all intrepid organists who take up this viscerally exciting challenge!
Zowie.
SORABJI: NEW FILM DOCUMENTARY AND PERFORMANCES
Organist Kevin Bowyer recently gave the US première of Sorabji's Organ Symphony No. 2 in University of Iowa where he had been invited to inaugurate its concert hall's new Klais organ following a disastrous flood in 2008 that destroyed the venue and its previous organ. Kevin's performance of this massive three movement work, more than eight hours in duration, was received with great enthusiasm.
Kevin devoted thousands of hours over many years to the preparation of the world première that he gave in Glasgow, Scotland, in 2010. He has since created magnificent typeset critical editions of all three Sorabji organ symphonies, of which copies are available from The Sorabji Archive (see www.sorabji-archive.co.uk ), along with all of Sorabji's other scores and literary writings,.
A crowd-funded film documentary about the organ symphonies project, with especial reference to the second symphony, is being made in Iowa, of which details and a link may be found on the Sorabji Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/KaikhosruShapurjiSorabji/posts/983423815092737?comment_id=986688958099556 ; to quote:
"A remarkable story rich with cinematic potential: the deluge of 2008, the effort to rebuild, the musical palace that rose forth, the remarkable organ placed at its heart, the magician (Kevin Bowyer) called upon to give it life, and the 8 1/2 hour Sorabjian incantation.
Please consider making a contribution to help assist in the funding effort to produce this film:
Sorabji in Iowa: A documentary
Help GOLDrush raise $8,000 for the project: Sorabji in Iowa: A documentary. Your gift will make a difference!"
The link to donate is goldrush.uiowa.edu . So far, almost 50% of the required sum has been raised, so yes, do please give generously towards this historic project!
Pianist Jonathan Powell will be touring what is still Sorabji's most famous work, Opus Clavicembalisticum, this year. To date, six performances have been confirmed, as follows:
050517 Brighton, UK: St. Michael's Church
090517 London, UK: Rosslyn Hill Chapel
130517 Oxford, UK: Jacqueline du Pré Music Building
011017 Karlsruhe, Germany: Musentempel
061017 Glasgow, Scotland: Concert Hall, University of Glasgow
251017 Brno, Czechia: Concert hall JAMU (Janáček Academy)
Other dates and venues are in the pipeline.
This seminal work will never have received so many performances within a single year!
Last Saturday, 13 May, at Oxford's Jacqueline du Pré Music Building, Jonathan Powell gave what was probably the finest performance that Sorabji's monumental Opus Clavicembalisticum has ever received. It was only its 17th performance since the composer's own world première in Glasgow in 1930.
After an unsettled and rather rushed brief opening Introito, the ensuing Preludio Corale occasionally exhibited similar issues but, once Jonathan launched into the first of the four fugues in the work, he was on top form and remained there throughout. There were some devastating moments of fulminating virtuosity alongside the most sensitively shaped phrasing in the fugues whose essential bel canto qualities he brought to the fore and without which they can risk sounding rather like rigorous intellectual exercises. The reticence and pervasive stillness of the mesmerising Adagio that comes around two-thirds of the way through the work was another high point. Jonathan held the audience's rapt attention throughout its near 4½ hours, a not inconsiderable feat in itself; the audience response and glowing comments after it testify to the great success of his achievement.
The page turner was also excellent!
Jonathan had given two performances of the work in the previous 8 days and has at least four more this year, in Karlsruhe, Glasgow, Brno and Tianjin. It is fair to say that the piece has never had so much exposure.
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on May 18, 2017, 02:01:41 AM
That made me really happy to hear about! Sorabji in general and Opus Clavicembalisticum are important to me, it is exciting to see works such as this getting some more wider exposure. Thanks for letting us know Ahinton :D
Also I've been reading Paul Rapoport's book "A Critical Celebration", which provides quite a good overview of Sorabji's life. Have you read it? (I would presume) and if you have, what do you think? 8)
Have I read it? I contributed two chapters as well as various research material to it!
Although it doesn't displace what remains a most valuable source of information, Marc-André Roberge's
Opus Sorabjianum, first published in 2013, reveals the benefit of much research undertaken since publication of Paul Rapoport's book in 1992; it's available for free online at http://www.mus.ulaval.ca/roberge/srs/07-prese.htm (where you'll find download instructions) and is updated from time to time. If you've enjoyed reading the Rapoport (to which Roberge also contributed), you' be sure to enjoy reading this!
Quote from: ahinton on May 18, 2017, 01:52:48 AM
Last Saturday, 13 May, at Oxford's Jacqueline du Pré Music Building, Jonathan Powell gave what was probably the finest performance that Sorabji's monumental Opus Clavicembalisticum has ever received. It was only its 17th performance since the composer's own world première in Glasgow in 1930.
After an unsettled and rather rushed brief opening Introito, the ensuing Preludio Corale occasionally exhibited similar issues but, once Jonathan launched into the first of the four fugues in the work, he was on top form and remained there throughout. There were some devastating moments of fulminating virtuosity alongside the most sensitively shaped phrasing in the fugues whose essential bel canto qualities he brought to the fore and without which they can risk sounding rather like rigorous intellectual exercises. The reticence and pervasive stillness of the mesmerising Adagio that comes around two-thirds of the way through the work was another high point. Jonathan held the audience's rapt attention throughout its near 4½ hours, a not inconsiderable feat in itself; the audience response and glowing comments after it testify to the great success of his achievement.
The page turner was also excellent!
Jonathan had given two performances of the work in the previous 8 days and has at least four more this year, in Karlsruhe, Glasgow, Brno and Tianjin. It is fair to say that the piece has never had so much exposure.
I attended the Oxford performance also and mighty impressive it was too.
As before, Jonathan put a great deal of effort making the fugues sound persuasive, particularly successfully with regard to the last one. The opening was certainly fast, approaching Yonty Solomon tempo - I rather like that approach. Also memorable was the Fantasia - which had never particularly struck me before. Most memorable of all was the brief Quasi Tambura section in the Passacaglia which featured an unusual and most extraordinary piano sound.
Not only was the page turner excellent, but he stood for the whole performance!
Chopin-Scriabin-Debussy-Messiaen-Szymanowski....
So, now, I've landed on the shores of Sorabji. And, I'll limit myself to the 'Nocturnes'...
Is Sorabji EndAll/BeAll of this kind of Music? coming from Chopin, through Debussy/Scriabin and into the Rudhyar(?)/Sorabji/ "over written" Piano Music?
I just keep coming around "the Best Piano Music was written c.1891-1917"... I like the "build-uo to" and the "flowering", but, afterwards, there just seems to be too much "scent" (which I thought I liked)... either you get "rigid" (Messiaen), or "decomposing tendrils" (Sorabji)... and then you get Boulez, Xenakis, et al,...
So, where IS the "Super Mystery Music" for Piano after Scriabin? Roslavets gets too angular and "not floral enough", whereas Sorabji suffocates me with the sickly sweet scents of his blooming/rotting greenhouse...
GOLDILOCKS SEEKS PERFECT MYSTERY MUSIC
New Opus
https://slippedisc.com/2019/10/a-lost-sorabji-masterpiece/
CD box will be coming out in a month, available for streaming now:
(https://i.imgur.com/p0rn0LC.jpg)
It is high time I listen to the Opus Clavicembalisticum
Quote from: hvbias on January 06, 2020, 12:42:44 PM
CD box will be coming out in a month, available for streaming now:
(https://i.imgur.com/p0rn0LC.jpg)
Zowie!
I believe this was originally going to be released on Toccata Classics. Looks like that fell through. Thankfully Piano has taken it on.
Quote from: hvbias on January 06, 2020, 12:42:44 PM
CD box will be coming out in a month, available for streaming now:
(https://i.imgur.com/p0rn0LC.jpg)
I just looked at the timing of this piece: 8h 23min!!!!!
I mean, this is beyond insane!!!!! Is there any longer piece than this one in the whole repertoire? What the hell was Sorabji thinking of when wrote it??? :o ???
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on February 26, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
I just looked at the timing of this piece: 8h 23min!!!!!
I mean, this is beyond insane!!!!! Is there any longer piece than this one in the whole repertoire? What the hell was Sorabji thinking of when wrote it??? :o ???
The longest recording of Sorabji's music, maybe some Sorabji scholars will have to chime in if there are longer works not recorded yet. As for what the hell he was thinking I think all pianists are wondering this :D
I don't think I've heard any Sorabji (including Opus Clavi) that has a movement longer than Hammerklavier (which I'm happy to listen to in one go actively not doing anything else) so it's not too bad listening to it in chunks, I know people perform it in one go, but I just never treat it listening to it like that.
Musically there is a lot of interesting things in his works. John Ogdon playing Opus Clavi would be one of my desert island selections.
Quote from: hvbias on February 26, 2020, 04:42:37 PM
The longest recording of Sorabji's music, maybe some Sorabji scholars will have to chime in if there are longer works not recorded yet. As for what the hell he was thinking I think all pianists are wondering this :D
I don't think I've heard any Sorabji (including Opus Clavi) that has a movement longer than Hammerklavier (which I'm happy to listen to in one go actively not doing anything else) so it's not too bad listening to it in chunks, I know people perform it in one go, but I just never treat it listening to it like that.
Musically there is a lot of interesting things in his works. John Ogdon playing Opus Clavi would be one of my desert island selections.
I haven't heard a single note of this composer yet, and certainly these lengthy works, somehow, draw my attention, they're like a challenge for the listener, and of course for the pianists. I hope I'll have patience and stamina enough to listen to this and his other music in the near future.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on February 26, 2020, 05:16:59 PM
I haven't heard a single note of this composer yet, and certainly these lengthy works, somehow, draw my attention, they're like a challenge for the listener, and of course for the pianists. I hope I'll have patience and stamina enough to listen to this and his other music in the near future.
They're a real challenge if you intend to listen to them as single pieces, which for me would be nearly impossible to do for just active without doing anything else type of in the zone listening. They are no doubt an extreme challenge for the pianist.
Anyway jump in anywhere :) There is a lot on Spotify except for some smaller labels and Hyperion. In the pop music world for me the music is like the equivalent of Scott Walker's The Drift or Tilt; dark, complex and reveals more to me with each listen. Or sticking with classical it's like a horror baroque with the dense counterpoint and clashing harmonies.
I think a pattern I see with people that really love Sorabji is they all play piano.
I am very fond of the Sorabji I've heard. I'm not any pianist, though.
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/za/bx/hm8akfgovbxza_600.jpg)
Looks like Sanchez-Aguilera is scheduled for another performance of Toccata Seconda in October, according to the Sorabji Archive. And of course assuming all of [gestures at world] this sorts itself out by then.
Sorabji is rambling but very athmospheric IMO. It does little harm listening to his long works in manageable chunks.
Quote from: The new erato on April 02, 2020, 12:55:58 AM
Sorabji is rambling but very athmospheric IMO. It does little harm listening to his long works in manageable chunks.
I do enjoy the experience.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 01, 2020, 11:53:51 PM
Looks like Sanchez-Aguilera is scheduled for another performance of Toccata Seconda in October, according to the Sorabji Archive. And of course assuming all of [gestures at world] this sorts itself out by then.
Well, I can confirm Sanchez-Aguilera played the Toccata Seconda for an audience of 9 people today, and I was among those lucky people present. It was a great experience! My first real listen to Sorabji; although I was familiar with the name I had never gotten around to listening to him. If i understood correctly the pianist is currently preparing for the premiere of the third Toccata.
Just stumbled upon this: wow, I swore H. Brian's Gothic Symphony was the longest and largest symphony ever, but it isn't. Now, this is insane!
And kudos to the person for the titanic task of making it by using a music software.
Brian Gothic remains the largest symphony to be actually performed...y'know, by real people playing real instruments! So Havergal still wins, my friend.
I'm tickled by the disclaimer here:
Important note: This video features 20th century music that might be unplesant [sic] to some, and lead to dangerous, toxic arguments. Proceed with caution
Exhibit A: The extremely long piano works thread. May it rest in peace. :P
Quote from: Karl Henning on February 27, 2024, 10:11:42 AMI'm tickled by the disclaimer here:
Important note: This video features 20th century music that might be unplesant [sic] to some, and lead to dangerous, toxic arguments. Proceed with caution
Why, you @#$%^&€££¥*^%!!!! >:D