A few months ago I wanted to listen to one of my CDs, but I ran into a problem: I couldn't find it. My collection has grown so large and unruly that I have abandoned racks and rely on floor-bound stacks, out of any semblance of order. While obviously a problem born of self-indulgence and affluenza, I decided it was time to fix the problem. I decided to rip a major portion of my collection to allow for immediate access to whatever I may want to hear, and since Amazon offers unlimited online storage for $60/year, equal to Backblaze but with a helpful UI, I figured now was a good time to rip away and store off-site for personal disaster recovery purposes. (When the Cascadia Subduction Zone quake hits, if it is at the high end of projections, my home stands a greater than 50% chance of being leveled, and if I survive the quake, I will want access to some form of entertainment at some point.)
I've used EAC to occasionally rip discs since the turn of the century, and it is reliable with superb error correction. But it can be slow, and it is not really optimized for retrieving metadata. This is especially true with Asian market releases, of which I have not a few. Fortunately, Windows Media Player also rips nicely, and it's metadata retrieval and tagging is better, and it actually retrieves Japanese market metadata for almost every title I ripped. I started off ripping my LvB sonata cycle collection, which took a while, before switching to artist-based big boxes, which is now mostly done, which means that I have started in on the rest of my collection proper. Along the way, I had to swap out drives to a nice enough Asus 48x spinner. But what really ended up being helpful was switching to dBpoweramp for ripping. It's metadata system is much better than EAC or Media Player, and it's much better than going back and using foobar to tag after the fact. I'm not a big fan of MediaMonkey's interface, finding dBpoweramp easier and quicker to use. The cover image search and upload functions are simple and quick, whether at initial rip or after the fact, and the often times multiple metadata sets for tracks that are offered up for each disc make choosing the right one easy. Of course, the "catch" is that the software is not free, but at $50-ish for two licenses, and about $5/year going forward, it's not spendy, either.
Now it's my go-to, though on discs that have errors (ie, discs available in AccurateRip where ultra-secure ripping kicks in), I switch to EAC to rip affected tracks as it works faster in every case. More than half the time when ultra-secure kicks in, the program ends up re-ripping by frame, and that just takes too long.
When I started ripping, I did some A/Bs between WAV and FLAC, and sure enough, they sound the same, so I went with FLAC for almost all ripping. I also compared encoding levels, and ended up sticking with level 5 for a size/decoding sweet-spot. I use Oppos as transports, and the 10x and forward players have gapless playback as a standard function, so now I just plug in an external hard drive loaded with music and go. It's immense fun to be able to sift through titles and do A/Bs on a whim. I'm closing in on three thousand ripped discs, and have about another three thousand or so to go before I'm done. I do not plan on ripping my opera collection since I don't listen to a lot of opera these days, and if/when I return to listening to more of it, I won't be doing any A/B listening, or skipping around from one act in Opera X to another act in Opera Y. I've also regained some floor and storage space in my listening room. Once the discs are ripped, I box them up and store them in the garage. Easier access and more space, what's not to like?
Well, I found one thing that might qualify. On some piano recordings, I've noticed that non-musical sound is now more audible. (Sounds include chair and piano creaks, damper mechanism noise, and the like.) The sounds are still largely there when listening to CD, they are just lower in level, though some sounds are absent. At first, I thought there was an issue with the rips, so I re-ripped as WAV and FLAC, and re-listened on two different systems. I also relied on my son's more youthful ears to verify if he heard anything. The results were the same. The differences have been most pronounced on Denon CDs, namely Michel Dalberto's Schubert, which I can live with, and Michel Beroff's Debussy, which is more of an issue. The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is that the record companies consciously rely on CD player error correction to filter out certain sounds, just as they introduced noise as one form of copy control with the express intention of relying on error correction to filter it out. Of course, I can always just rely on CDs in any cases where this becomes an issue. And something else might be causing the issue.
I've also learned, over and over again, that not all CD pressings are the same. Older Telarc pressings seem to be spot-on in every case when it comes to metadata and error correction, followed by Japanese market pressings (and the Japanese are, hands down, the most thorough when it comes to labeling each and every track meticulously), followed by French pressings, and then it varies. The worst ripping experience I had was with Stewart Goodyear's Beethoven cycle. I had to use EAC, and the rip speeds dropped well below 1x speed with continuous error correction. I've not listened to the whole cycle in ripped form yet, but the couple sonatas I have listened to all sound fine. And I've also ran into copy controlled discs, all of them from Teldec/Erato so far. Fortunately, none of the titles are oft-listened to, and one (Lubimov's Mozart) may never be listened to again, so it's not a big issue yet.
Modern technology is fun.
Welcome to the club. I've been doing that since 1999, first with MusicMatch Jukebox and MP3's at 320bps, by 2008, with dBPoweramp and FLAC. I have 4 TB of external storage which allows me to backup my backup. I also use EAC for the toughies.
If you are bugged by that noise, Audacity will remove it although I am not into it enough to tell you how. I use it to cut off the applause at the end of 'live' recordings, or if I am bugged enough to bother, I can look at the waveform and find the offending pop or click and simply excise it. I haven't registered it since I don't use it enough, but I am very fond of it when I need it.
Oddly, I have 2 editions of the Lubimov Mozart, 1 from the singles and the other from the box set, and had no copying issues with either of them. Hmmm... :-\
8)
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 07:27:41 AM
A few months ago I wanted to listen to one of my CDs, but I ran into a problem: I couldn't find it. My collection has grown so large and unruly that I have abandoned racks and rely on floor-bound stacks, out of any semblance of order. While obviously a problem born of self-indulgence and affluenza, I decided it was time to fix the problem. I decided to rip a major portion of my collection to allow for immediate access to whatever I may want to hear, and since Amazon offers unlimited online storage for $60/year, equal to Backblaze but with a helpful UI, I figured now was a good time to rip away and store off-site for personal disaster recovery purposes. (When the Cascadia Subduction Zone quake hits, if it is at the high end of projections, my home stands a greater than 50% chance of being leveled, and if I survive the quake, I will want access to some form of entertainment at some point.)
I've used EAC to occasionally rip discs since the turn of the century, and it is reliable with superb error correction. But it can be slow, and it is not really optimized for retrieving metadata. This is especially true with Asian market releases, of which I have not a few. Fortunately, Windows Media Player also rips nicely, and it's metadata retrieval and tagging is better, and it actually retrieves Japanese market metadata for almost every title I ripped. I started off ripping my LvB sonata cycle collection, which took a while, before switching to artist-based big boxes, which is now mostly done, which means that I have started in on the rest of my collection proper. Along the way, I had to swap out drives to a nice enough Asus 48x spinner. But what really ended up being helpful was switching to dBpoweramp for ripping. It's metadata system is much better than EAC or Media Player, and it's much better than going back and using foobar to tag after the fact. I'm not a big fan of MediaMonkey's interface, finding dBpoweramp easier and quicker to use. The cover image search and upload functions are simple and quick, whether at initial rip or after the fact, and the often times multiple metadata sets for tracks that are offered up for each disc make choosing the right one easy. Of course, the "catch" is that the software is not free, but at $50-ish for two licenses, and about $5/year going forward, it's not spendy, either.
Now it's my go-to, though on discs that have errors (ie, discs available in AccurateRip where ultra-secure ripping kicks in), I switch to EAC to rip affected tracks as it works faster in every case. More than half the time when ultra-secure kicks in, the program ends up re-ripping by frame, and that just takes too long.
When I started ripping, I did some A/Bs between WAV and FLAC, and sure enough, they sound the same, so I went with FLAC for almost all ripping. I also compared encoding levels, and ended up sticking with level 5 for a size/decoding sweet-spot. I use Oppos as transports, and the 10x and forward players have gapless playback as a standard function, so now I just plug in an external hard drive loaded with music and go. It's immense fun to be able to sift through titles and do A/Bs on a whim. I'm closing in on three thousand ripped discs, and have about another three thousand or so to go before I'm done. I do not plan on ripping my opera collection since I don't listen to a lot of opera these days, and if/when I return to listening to more of it, I won't be doing any A/B listening, or skipping around from one act in Opera X to another act in Opera Y. I've also regained some floor and storage space in my listening room. Once the discs are ripped, I box them up and store them in the garage. Easier access and more space, what's not to like?
Well, I found one thing that might qualify. On some piano recordings, I've noticed that non-musical sound is now more audible. (Sounds include chair and piano creaks, damper mechanism noise, and the like.) The sounds are still largely there when listening to CD, they are just lower in level, though some sounds are absent. At first, I thought there was an issue with the rips, so I re-ripped as WAV and FLAC, and re-listened on two different systems. I also relied on my son's more youthful ears to verify if he heard anything. The results were the same. The differences have been most pronounced on Denon CDs, namely Michel Dalberto's Schubert, which I can live with, and Michel Beroff's Debussy, which is more of an issue. The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is that the record companies consciously rely on CD player error correction to filter out certain sounds, just as they introduced noise as one form of copy control with the express intention of relying on error correction to filter it out. Of course, I can always just rely on CDs in any cases where this becomes an issue. And something else might be causing the issue.
I've also learned, over and over again, that not all CD pressings are the same. Older Telarc pressings seem to be spot-on in every case when it comes to metadata and error correction, followed by Japanese market pressings (and the Japanese are, hands down, the most thorough when it comes to labeling each and every track meticulously), followed by French pressings, and then it varies. The worst ripping experience I had was with Stewart Goodyear's Beethoven cycle. I had to use EAC, and the rip speeds dropped well below 1x speed with continuous error correction. I've not listened to the whole cycle in ripped form yet, but the couple sonatas I have listened to all sound fine. And I've also ran into copy controlled discs, all of them from Teldec/Erato so far. Fortunately, none of the titles are oft-listened to, and one (Lubimov's Mozart) may never be listened to again, so it's not a big issue yet.
Modern technology is fun.
Will the amazon storage allow you to store your flac files? What exactly is this oppo thingie? Is it just a CD transport for ripping? Does it get the ripped music into your hifi? If not how do you manage that?
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 28, 2017, 10:07:24 AMOddly, I have 2 editions of the Lubimov Mozart, 1 from the singles and the other from the box set, and had no copying issues with either of them.
I have the stand-alone box-set reissue. The other two copy protected titles I have run into are Harnoncourt's second St Matthew Passion and Plasson's Durufle Requiem, so not exactly oft-spun classics. Fortunately, the Lili Kraus big box, also from Erato, ripped just fine.
I currently have three 3 TB drives, so I have two on-site backups plus Amazon. Since I also back up digital photos on two of the drives, which now take up about 70 MB each since I shoot both raw and JPEG, I'm probably going to either split the photos and ripped files onto different drives, or buy a couple 8 or 16 TB RAID external drives and be done with it. Oppo updated its firmware within the last couple years to handle external drives up to 16 TB, so I'd be set. (The units can accept up to three connected drives at once.) Data storage is not really an issue now, though I still like FLACs since I can copy them to a phone or thumbdrive for use on other equipment.
If the noise becomes an issue, I can always opt for the zero dollar fix and spin the CDs, or I can prep myself mentally like I do when I listen to fortepianos. This is the very definition of a first world (non-) problem, so unless a lot of discs display this issue, I won't really worry. Most of my other must-have piano discs I have listened to have been just fine.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 28, 2017, 10:23:26 AM
Will the amazon storage allow you to store your flac files? What exactly is this oppo thing? Does it get the ripped music into your hifi?
Yes, Amazon allows you to store any type of file, but as of right now, it is storage only; you cannot stream the files. That written, Amazon will begin beta testing a new feature for that soon. My son will be beta testing it, so I should know how well it works soon enough, though given the metadata issue with classical titles, it may not be optimized for that music.
Oppo is a high(ish) end brand of optical disc spinner. (They also make a DAC, headphones, and primarily for the Asian market, smartphones.) Their disc playback units play pretty much all optical discs, and you can plug in an external drive via USB 2.0 (front) or 3.0 (back) and use either its monitor based menu or its phone/tablet app menu to navigate folders and files. You can also connect the units to an Ethernet network, though gapless playback is limited. I go the external harddrive route. It serves as a digital hub, which I route to my DAC, which then runs into my core electronics. Oppo's base units - now the UDP-203 - are low cost enough (about $550) so that I buy the latest model every 2-3 years to stay up with what's out there. The more expensive unit has better visual playback, but I'm mostly interested in the transport and content control. Both units use the same transport. Oppo's transports are good enough so that MSB uses one in their $5K+ transport. Years ago, Lexicon dropped a BDP-83 in a new case and charged an additional three grand for it.
Current entry-level unit:
(http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/images/UDP-203-top-front-hr.jpg)
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
I have the stand-alone box-set reissue. The other two copy protected titles I have run into are Harnoncourt's second St Matthew Passion and Plasson's Durufle Requiem, so not exactly oft-spun classics. Fortunately, the Lili Kraus big box, also from Erato, ripped just fine.
I currently have three 3 TB drives, so I have two on-site backups plus Amazon. Since I also back up digital photos on two of the drives, which now take up about 70 MB each since I shoot both raw and JPEG, I'm probably going to either split the photos and ripped files onto different drives, or buy a couple 8 or 16 TB RAID external drives and be done with it. Oppo updated its firmware within the last couple years to handle external drives up to 16 TB, so I'd be set. (The units can accept up to three connected drives at once.) Data storage is not really an issue now, though I still like FLACs since I can copy them to a phone or thumbdrive for use on other equipment.
If the noise becomes an issue, I can always opt for the zero dollar fix and spin the CDs, or I can prep myself mentally like I do when I listen to fortepianos. This is the very definition of a first world (non-) problem, so unless a lot of discs display this issue, I won't really worry. Most of my other must-have piano discs I have listened to have been just fine.
Yes, Amazon allows you to store any type of file, but as of right now, it is storage only; you cannot stream the files. That written, Amazon will begin beta testing a new feature for that soon. My son will be beta testing it, so I should know how well it works soon enough, though given the metadata issue with classical titles, it may not be optimized for that music.
Oppo is a high(ish) end brand of optical disc spinner. (They also make a DAC, headphones, and primarily for the Asian market, smartphones.) Their disc playback units play pretty much all optical discs, and you can plug in an external drive via USB 2.0 (front) or 3.0 (back) and use either its monitor based menu or its phone/tablet app menu to navigate folders and files. You can also connect the units to an Ethernet network, though gapless playback is limited. I go the external harddrive route. It serves as a digital hub, which I route to my DAC, which then runs into my core electronics. Oppo's base units - now the UDP-203 - are low cost enough (about $550) so that I buy the latest model every 2-3 years to stay up with what's out there. The more expensive unit has better visual playback, but I'm mostly interested in the transport and content control. Both units use the same transport. Oppo's transports are good enough so that MSB uses one in their $5K+ transport. Years ago, Lexicon dropped a BDP-83 in a new case and charged an additional three grand for it.
Current entry-level unit:
(http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/images/UDP-203-top-front-hr.jpg)
(Sorry if this sounds like the Spanish inquisition!)
How do you search the files on the hard drive? By filename or by tag -- if by tags, how? If by filename, is it satisfactory?
I'll explore the amazon file storage some time soon.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 28, 2017, 10:57:11 AM
How do you search the file on the hard drive? By filename or by tag -- if by tags, how? If by filename, is it satisfactory?
I created the file structure in Windows and browse it using either the monitor based menu and remote or app based remote. The file structure is precisely the way I like to organize my files: by artist>disc for compilation box-sets, or by composer>genre>artist(s)>disc for everything else. For pop/rock and jazz, it's artist>disc.
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 11:00:38 AM
I created the file structure in Windows and browse it using either the monitor based menu and remote or app based remote. The file structure is precisely the way I like to organize my files: by artist>disc for compilation box-sets, or by composer>genre>artist(s)>disc for everything else. For pop/rock and jazz, it's artist>disc.
And when you rip you can set up dbpoweramp to put it in the right place I suppose, using online metadata to generate the final bit of the path. Do you then find and play a file via a tablet while sitting in your armchair? Or do you have to go to your computer?
(The reason I'm so interested is that I may explore a route along these lines myself. Right now I use Logitech Squeezebox, which is excellent, but the interface to spotify is not really maintained and is unreliable. I'm looking for viable alternatives to the Logitech Media Server and a Squeezebox for playing a very large library of lossless files.)
When I first started ripping CDs to FLAC, I used WinAmp and continued to do so for many years. I completed about half of my CD collection--600 of about 1200. Then WinAmp went TangoUniform, and I just lost interest for a few years. Then I started looking for something else. Media Monkey was recommended, but I found it an unmitigated disaster for ripping, especially for discs I made myself from my LPs (Pioneer CD Recorder connected to my main system) and other discs in which I had to enter the track names manually.
After the Media Monkey fiasco, I tried Foobar 2000, and it works like a dream. I think it is just about the best piece of software I have ever used, and is equally adept at ripping and organizing a collection. I never use tags, and browse exclusively by folder. In my system 1 folder = 1 CD. This is not a perfect system, but I rarely have trouble finding things from my collection of over 1200 CD recordings. I have an LP collection of about the same size and in the process of digitizing it.
In 2015, I bought a Fiio X1 DAP with at 128 gigitty-giggity byte card and now have 300+ CDs worth of music in the palm of my hand. I still have room for about another hundred. I had an iPod Touch for many years, but I must say the Fiio would nuke the iPod in terms of sound quality, and I greatly appreciate the ability to browse by folder and to have the heirarchy of folders match the one on my HD. I am still amazed that I have this much music in such a small package, when ten years ago I had to figure out which 20 or so CDs I was going to bring with me on vacation or a business trip.
The Pioneer has since also gone TangoUniform, and I bought an ADC to rip my LPs directly to FLAC using Audacity. Given that I have another 1200 LPs to digitize, it will save me a lot of space (no longer making CDs). Of course Audacity gives me the option to do editing, higher sampling rates, etc. that I never had with the CD Recorder.
Indeed, technology is fun--can't wait for self-driving cars to save us the horror of commuting.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 28, 2017, 11:07:58 AM
And when you rip you can set up dbpoweramp to put it in the right place I suppose, using online metadata to generate the final bit of the path. Do you then find and play a file via a tablet while sitting at your armchair?
dBpoweramp rips to a default path, though the path can be changed as needed per disc. You can use the metadata it retrieves, if you want, to name the destination folder. It uses six metadata providers by default, and you can change between them to get the right degree of detail, or manually enter the info if you want.
I rip to my C drive, then after ripping I move folders to two external drives "manually" (ie, cut and paste to one, then copy and paste to the other). I may write a script to do it at some point, but I usually wait until I'm done for the day before moving folders and files all at once. I then copy folders and files to the drive I use in my stereo about once a week.
Quote from: XB-70 Valkyrie on April 28, 2017, 11:17:31 AMIn my system 1 folder = 1 CD.
That's generally how I do it, though for cases where works are split between two discs (eg, a long Mahler or Bruckner symphony), I take the opportunity to merge them into one folder so I can listen continuously.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 28, 2017, 11:07:58 AM(The reason I'm so interested is that I may explore a route along these lines myself. Right now I use Logitech Squeezebox, which is excellent, but the interface to spotify is not really maintained and is unreliable. I'm looking for viable alternatives to the Logitech Media Server and a Squeezebox for playing a very large library of lossless files.)
I'm glad Oppo does want I want, because I don't really have to spend a lot of money to get what I need. I've looked at various options for streamers (I'm very happy with my DAC and don't need or want a new one), and they are pricey for what is on offer. I have entertained the idea of getting a Salk StreamPlayer Gen III, but it's too much for me to bite, even though it supports Tidal. (I'd have to use Roon to use Tidal, so for now, it's a no-go.) I only use Amazon and YouTube for streaming, and I can run those using my tablet and an Audioengine B1, though that uses Bluetooth, so sound quality is compromised, but everything other than Tidal is anyway when it comes to streaming.
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 11:42:52 AM
I'm glad Oppo does want I want, because I don't really have to spend a lot of money to get what I need. I've looked at various options for streamers (I'm very happy with my DAC and don't need or want a new one), and they are pricey for what is on offer. I have entertained the idea of getting a Salk StreamPlayer Gen III, but it's too much for me to bite, even though it supports Tidal. (I'd have to use Roon to use Tidal, so for now, it's a no-go.) I only use Amazon and YouTube for streaming, and I can run those using my tablet and an Audioengine B1, though that uses Bluetooth, so sound quality is compromised, but everything other than Tidal is anyway when it comes to streaming.
I'm still not clear about how you're searching and playing.
Look as I type this I'm on my armchair using an iPad. I can open up an app on the iPad and search my music files by tags or indeed search Spotify and Qobuz, and I can then choose and play through my hi fi. The files are on a hard drive in another room, connected to a desktop, which is in turn connected wirelessly to the squeezebox, which connects to a DAC.
Can you do that?
Oh, one thing to think about is a chromecast audio, using LMS. But there may be problems about gapless, I'm not sure.
Another is to build your own streamer using Raspberry Pi. It's not at all hard.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 28, 2017, 12:18:14 PMCan you do that?
With the hard-drive or CD contents, yes. For online stuff, I have to get up, walk over to my stereo, push one button (my DAC has no remote control), then I can use my tablet to search online content. I rarely use online content for classical listening.
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 12:22:23 PM
With the hard-drive or CD contents, yes.
That's really good though. Good find. I guess your hard drive is physically linked to the hi fi amp via the DAC, and there's some tablet app for finding a file and playing it with foobar or windows media player.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 28, 2017, 12:40:38 PMI guess your hard drive is physically linked to the hi fi amp via the DAC, and there's some tablet app for finding a file and playing it with foobar or windows media player.
No, the hard-drive is connected to the Oppo, which feeds the DAC. Oppo software accesses the hard drive and outputs the music. I choose to use an outboard DAC because it is better, but the Oppo internal DAC could also be used.
This conversation holds a lot of interest for me. A few years ago I began the arduous journey of ripping my entire collection to an external HD. I didn't do my research and started out with too low a bit rate on many of the rips. I also played with various rippers starting with Audacity and then moving to the now defunct Winamp. The beauty of Winamp for me was it's ability to access the Gracenote database. There were very few recordings it couldn't find though compilation CDs sent by friends were a problem.
What I have now is about 90% of my CDs ripped in a variety of formats and bitrates - in other words, a dogs breakfast. Taking my HD from my PC and connecting it to my Mac has shown up a number of issues so I have decided to start again.
So, is dBpoweramp the best ripper?
Will it find the disc contents, composer/genre/artist/track list/etc like Winamp did?
Will it work on an iMac?
I have an analog stereo amplifier so can I assume that the Oppo won't work for me as a ripping source?
Finally, I have three format choices. As I have a Mac, then ALAC is an option. The other two are FLAC and 320kbps MP3. I find it very hard to distinguish between FLAC and high end MP3.
I'll start the project with my Rubinstein big box edition. That's over 140 CDs so it will take a while. Then I'll do the other box sets I've got (Cziffra, Gilels, Haskill, Lupu, blah blah blah). Then I'll go the single CDs alphabetically by composer.
Quote from: Holden on April 28, 2017, 03:22:25 PMSo, is dBpoweramp the best ripper?
I'm not sure I can say it is
the best, but it is excellent, is better than freeware, and I use it first now. I use EAC as a backup for tracks/discs with rip issues. I recommend having EAC as a backup.
Quote from: Holden on April 28, 2017, 03:22:25 PMWill it find the disc contents, composer/genre/artist/track list/etc like Winamp did?
In most cases, yes. One cool feature is that if you cannot find a CD cover image you like, you can image your own and tag the files when ripping or after. For brand new discs, or very obscure ones, metadata may not be available and you would have to enter track info yourself. I have had to do this a few times.
Quote from: Holden on April 28, 2017, 03:22:25 PMWill it work on an iMac?
Don't know.
Quote from: Holden on April 28, 2017, 03:22:25 PMI have an analog stereo amplifier so can I assume that the Oppo won't work for me as a ripping source?
Oppo is basically a high end CD/BD player. I do my ripping on a regular PC.
Quote from: Holden on April 28, 2017, 03:22:25 PMFinally, I have three format choices. As I have a Mac, then ALAC is an option. The other two are FLAC and 320kbps MP3. I find it very hard to distinguish between FLAC and high end MP3.
ALAC and FLAC are lossless and sound indistinguishable from WAV files. I use FLAC. 320 MP3 is audibly inferior through my main rig and home theater, so I always go FLAC. dBpoweramp rips as FLAC but has a batch conversion tool to convert to other formats. Even for MP3, which I need since my car's USB reader doesn't handle FLACs, I rip as FLAC and then convert afterward.
Quote from: Holden on April 28, 2017, 03:22:25 PMI'll start the project with my Rubinstein big box edition. That's over 140 CDs so it will take a while.
I've done most of my artist collections, and have Katchen, Richter (three boxes), Giulini, and Rubinstein left. I started the Rubinstein a couple days ago and have done a couple rip sessions. Some of the discs rip very quickly given the short timings. I'm most excited about being able to jump around that behemoth box, comparing Mazurkas, and so on.
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 02:31:04 PM
No, the hard-drive is connected to the Oppo, which feeds the DAC. Oppo software accesses the hard drive and outputs the music. I choose to use an outboard DAC because it is better, but the Oppo internal DAC could also be used.
Now I understand.
Thanks for answering my questions Todd. I downloaded dBPoweramp onto my Mac as a test and am very impressed with what it does. I ripped the first three sets from the Rubinstein box (14 CDs) to my Verbatim HD and was surprised how quickly it ripped the FLAC. The metadata is variable - on some CDs it lists composer, work, etc but on others it just gives the tempo and maybe an opus number. I think I can go back in and edit if I want to. I'll buy a new HD and start from scratch after transferring the 14 CDs I've already done.
Quote from: Holden on April 29, 2017, 01:25:32 AMThanks for answering my questions Todd. I downloaded dBPoweramp onto my Mac as a test and am very impressed with what it does. I ripped the first three sets from the Rubinstein box (14 CDs) to my Verbatim HD and was surprised how quickly it ripped the FLAC. The metadata is variable - on some CDs it lists composer, work, etc but on others it just gives the tempo and maybe an opus number. I think I can go back in and edit if I want to. I'll buy a new HD and start from scratch after transferring the 14 CDs I've already done.
The metadata on the LP length discs is more consistent. Make sure to select the 'Review Metadata' button (or press Alt+M) to review options with each disc. Some options may be more to your liking.
Also, I suggest going to CD Ripper Options and selecting Secure rather than Burst for ripping. Burst is default. I've enabled Ultra Secure which only activates in the event of a rip error, which is how I identify which discs or tracks to rip using EAC.
Quote from: Holden on April 29, 2017, 01:25:32 AM
Thanks for answering my questions Todd. I downloaded dBPoweramp onto my Mac as a test and am very impressed with what it does. I ripped the first three sets from the Rubinstein box (14 CDs) to my Verbatim HD and was surprised how quickly it ripped the FLAC. The metadata is variable - on some CDs it lists composer, work, etc but on others it just gives the tempo and maybe an opus number. I think I can go back in and edit if I want to. I'll buy a new HD and start from scratch after transferring the 14 CDs I've already done.
With dbpoweramp be sure to click the thing which allows you to compare the metadata from different databases, it's in the metadata tab somewhere, I think it's called "review perfectmeta options", very often the metadata that dbpoweramp defaults to is not the best available. I may not have the latest version, mine is about 8 years old!
The only other metadata tool I use is foobar because it's very good at taking tags from file names or from lists saved to the notebook. Foobar is also pretty quick at editing existing tags, much much better than dbpoweramp in fact.
Sometimes, rarely, dbpoweramp just will not rip a CD. It just sits there and refuses. Foobar is very good in a situation like that, or monkey. It's also a good idea to have a second disc drive in case the problem lies there.
For me foobar is essential for ripping SACDs and DVD Audios because I need to bring down the sampling bitrate to stream. This is probably a limitation of squeezebox.
Monkey's facility for taking tags from Amazon is useful.
Has anyone explored the factors which effect the speed of a rip?
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 07:27:41 AM
A few months ago I wanted to listen to one of my CDs, but I ran into a problem: I couldn't find it. My collection has grown so large and unruly that I have abandoned racks and rely on floor-bound stacks, out of any semblance of order. While obviously a problem born of self-indulgence and affluenza, I decided it was time to fix the problem. I decided to rip a major portion of my collection to allow for immediate access to whatever I may want to hear, and since Amazon offers unlimited online storage for $60/year, equal to Backblaze but with a helpful UI, I figured now was a good time to rip away and store off-site for personal disaster recovery purposes. (When the Cascadia Subduction Zone quake hits, if it is at the high end of projections, my home stands a greater than 50% chance of being leveled, and if I survive the quake, I will want access to some form of entertainment at some point.)
I've used EAC to occasionally rip discs since the turn of the century, and it is reliable with superb error correction. But it can be slow, and it is not really optimized for retrieving metadata. This is especially true with Asian market releases, of which I have not a few. Fortunately, Windows Media Player also rips nicely, and it's metadata retrieval and tagging is better, and it actually retrieves Japanese market metadata for almost every title I ripped. I started off ripping my LvB sonata cycle collection, which took a while, before switching to artist-based big boxes, which is now mostly done, which means that I have started in on the rest of my collection proper. Along the way, I had to swap out drives to a nice enough Asus 48x spinner. But what really ended up being helpful was switching to dBpoweramp for ripping. It's metadata system is much better than EAC or Media Player, and it's much better than going back and using foobar to tag after the fact. I'm not a big fan of MediaMonkey's interface, finding dBpoweramp easier and quicker to use. The cover image search and upload functions are simple and quick, whether at initial rip or after the fact, and the often times multiple metadata sets for tracks that are offered up for each disc make choosing the right one easy. Of course, the "catch" is that the software is not free, but at $50-ish for two licenses, and about $5/year going forward, it's not spendy, either.
Now it's my go-to, though on discs that have errors (ie, discs available in AccurateRip where ultra-secure ripping kicks in), I switch to EAC to rip affected tracks as it works faster in every case. More than half the time when ultra-secure kicks in, the program ends up re-ripping by frame, and that just takes too long.
When I started ripping, I did some A/Bs between WAV and FLAC, and sure enough, they sound the same, so I went with FLAC for almost all ripping. I also compared encoding levels, and ended up sticking with level 5 for a size/decoding sweet-spot. I use Oppos as transports, and the 10x and forward players have gapless playback as a standard function, so now I just plug in an external hard drive loaded with music and go. It's immense fun to be able to sift through titles and do A/Bs on a whim. I'm closing in on three thousand ripped discs, and have about another three thousand or so to go before I'm done. I do not plan on ripping my opera collection since I don't listen to a lot of opera these days, and if/when I return to listening to more of it, I won't be doing any A/B listening, or skipping around from one act in Opera X to another act in Opera Y. I've also regained some floor and storage space in my listening room. Once the discs are ripped, I box them up and store them in the garage. Easier access and more space, what's not to like?
Well, I found one thing that might qualify. On some piano recordings, I've noticed that non-musical sound is now more audible. (Sounds include chair and piano creaks, damper mechanism noise, and the like.) The sounds are still largely there when listening to CD, they are just lower in level, though some sounds are absent. At first, I thought there was an issue with the rips, so I re-ripped as WAV and FLAC, and re-listened on two different systems. I also relied on my son's more youthful ears to verify if he heard anything. The results were the same. The differences have been most pronounced on Denon CDs, namely Michel Dalberto's Schubert, which I can live with, and Michel Beroff's Debussy, which is more of an issue. The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is that the record companies consciously rely on CD player error correction to filter out certain sounds, just as they introduced noise as one form of copy control with the express intention of relying on error correction to filter it out. Of course, I can always just rely on CDs in any cases where this becomes an issue. And something else might be causing the issue.
I've also learned, over and over again, that not all CD pressings are the same. Older Telarc pressings seem to be spot-on in every case when it comes to metadata and error correction, followed by Japanese market pressings (and the Japanese are, hands down, the most thorough when it comes to labeling each and every track meticulously), followed by French pressings, and then it varies. The worst ripping experience I had was with Stewart Goodyear's Beethoven cycle. I had to use EAC, and the rip speeds dropped well below 1x speed with continuous error correction. I've not listened to the whole cycle in ripped form yet, but the couple sonatas I have listened to all sound fine. And I've also ran into copy controlled discs, all of them from Teldec/Erato so far. Fortunately, none of the titles are oft-listened to, and one (Lubimov's Mozart) may never be listened to again, so it's not a big issue yet.
Modern technology is fun.
How long did it take you to upload your enormous music collection to the amazon drive?
Let me decode that. Have you found a way of uploading it all reasonably quickly? I mean I have nearly 3TB, less than you I think, and it's gonna take forever!Someone's just told me that they uploaded 2TB in a couple of days with a fibre optic line. So maybe I was wrong to worry.
Amazon have a amazondrive desktop app which will allow you to synch to a folder on your C drive. It will NOT allow you to synch to a folder on an external hard drive (so no good for me)
I tried to upload via the web interface several times but it crashed for my big "downloads" folder. It worked for one or two small files.
I just started an upload of the whole folder via the windows 10 app and so far so good, will report back.
But even if it does work, I need to create backups. Someone has suggested that rclone may help
https://rclone.org/
It's not going to work for me., 400 files in 6 hours, to upload the lot will take more than two months.
As I've continued my ripping, one thing has become clear: I have a lot more Paul Hindemith in my collection than I thought I did. I've only ever bought one or two discs of Hindemith's music on its own, but a fair number of the small, medium, and large artist compilation boxes I've acquired have Hindemith included. Turns out I've got more Ernst Toch than I thought, too. I'm not sure I'll be spending a lot of time listening to either composer, though.
As I've continued ripping, I've run into more copy protected discs. All of them have been from Teldec/Erato. That's not to say all Teldec/Erato titles have been copy protected, because that is not the case. It also does not apply to all Warner titles; former EMI and new Warner-specific titles seem unaffected. The copy protection seems to come in two flavors: artificial noise (Harnoncourt's St Matthew) and drive offset manipulation (most titles, including all of Andras Schiff's). I don't think Teldec/Erato went the Trojan software installation route that Sony briefly did. At some point I may experiment with different drives to get around the problem, or perhaps even go for an old CD player/recorder combo that can be had for cheap. In the meantime, I will have to take the CDs out of the sleeves and put them in the transport by hand. How very inconvenient.
I have no problems ripping CDs. Quite surprised to find that other people have problems, especially nowadays. :-\
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2017, 08:53:12 AM
I have no problems ripping CDs. Quite surprised to find that other people have problems, especially nowadays. :-\
It's not all CDs. It's about 50 out of about 5000 so far, and all from one label. Perhaps you have some specific knowledge on how to address copy protected CDs?
Quote from: Todd on May 19, 2017, 08:56:08 AM
It's not all CDs. It's about 50 out of about 5000 so far, and all from one label. Perhaps you have some specific knowledge on how to address copy protected CDs?
Every disc I rip, I rip through iTunes. I've had zero problems. I can rip any CD I want.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2017, 09:00:35 AM
Every disc I rip, I rip through iTunes. I've had zero problems. I can rip any CD I want.
Have any of the discs you ripped had copy protection?
Quote from: Todd on May 19, 2017, 09:02:29 AM
Have any of the discs you ripped had copy protection?
Absolutely and, again, no problems whatsoever with ripping any of them. I'm not sure why you're even having problems with ripping copy-protected CDs, because when I go to rip through iTunes (I have an Apple Macbook Pro which is my main computer), there are no snags whatsoever.
I tried to avoid the copy protected CDs and I think I only have a handful. One that fortunately ran well enough on normal players (although I don't remember if I tried to rip it) is Handel sonatas with Christie/Kurosaki.
I didn't even know that Teldec/Warner had used copy protection. My copies of the more recent (ca. 2001) St Matthew with Harnoncourt have the "compact disc digital audio" logo not the copy protect, so they should be normal. Only the third disc is "enhanced" and supposedly has bonus material (not sure if I ever tried to run the bonus material).
Although some labels did not care and put both logos on a disc which is claiming the impossible, I believe. Because CDs with copy protection cannot fulfil the "red book" standard implied by the normal "compact disc digital audio" label.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2017, 09:06:02 AM
Absolutely and, again, no problems whatsoever with ripping any of them. I'm not sure why you're even having problems with ripping copy-protected CDs, because when I go to rip through iTunes (I have an Apple Macbook Pro which is my main computer), there are no snags whatsoever.
I don't use Apple. The issue is at the hardware and/or settings (including possibly registry) level as drive offset manipulation prevents discs from being read, and noise is specifically designed to be filtered out by standard disc playback error correction, which is not used by EAC, dBpoweramp, Media Player, or Foobar. Drive offset manipulation can be dealt with manually, fortunately. Since I will not use Apple for a variety of reasons, I will find a different solution or solutions.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 19, 2017, 09:07:54 AMBecause CDs with copy protection cannot fulfil the "red book" standard implied by the normal "compact disc digital audio" label.
I've noticed that the offending discs I own do not have the standard compact disc logo.
Quote from: Todd on May 19, 2017, 09:13:16 AM
I don't use Apple. The issue is at the hardware and/or settings (including possibly registry) level as drive offset manipulation prevents discs from being read, and noise is specifically designed to be filtered out by standard disc playback error correction, which is not used by EAC, dBpoweramp, Media Player, or Foobar. Drive offset manipulation can be dealt with manually, fortunately. Since I will not use Apple for a variety of reasons, I will find a different solution or solutions.
Since I refuse to use Microsoft Windows (for a lot of reasons), I could never understand your problem. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2017, 09:21:17 AM
Since I refuse to use Microsoft Windows (for a lot of reasons), I could never understand your problem. :)
The issue is not limited to Windows.
On a different note, every once in a while I run into discs with data errors that require lengthy rips. Case in point, disc six of Rudolf Kempe's Strauss box. Most of the tracks had errors, but EAC heroically (as heroically as freeware can) ripped the tracks. It took five hours to rip "The dinner" from Le Bourgeois gentilhomme, which turned out fine. However, when I tried ripping Schlagobers and Josephslegende, the secure rip times were unacceptable (Schlagobers was estimated at over 11 hours), and since I never listen to these, I switched to burst mode to be done with it. I decided to spin the disc in a CD player to hear if anything was amiss, and sure enough, crackling occurred throughout. If I really want to listen to these pieces again, I will have to get different recordings or pressings. I'm probably good.
Is this the Brilliant, the older EMI or the more recent Warner issue of the Kempe/Strauss?
You probably know the joke: If Richard rather Wagner, if Strauss rather Johann and for Schlagobers rather Demel.
http://www.demel.at/frames/index_wien_kaffeehaus.htm
Quote from: Todd on May 19, 2017, 09:30:15 AM
On a different note, every once in a while I run into discs with data errors that require lengthy rips. Case in point, disc six of Rudolf Kempe's Strauss box. Most of the tracks had errors, but EAC heroically (as heroically as freeware can) ripped the tracks. It took five hours to rip "The dinner" from Le Bourgeois gentilhomme, which turned out fine.
Yes, this happens especially with older cd's. For some of them it is just defective pressing (all players have problem with them). For others it is cd aging: some of these older cds rip 20 times slower than the newer ones. And 3-4 of them could just not be ripped at all. Over my entire collection "problem cds" represent only a fraction of a %.
I did not experience any of the other difficulties you mentionned in your earlier posts. I use EAC with the gd3 database. EAC isnt your friendly software but I lived with it.
Quote from: Jo498 on May 19, 2017, 11:23:38 AMIs this the Brilliant, the older EMI or the more recent Warner issue of the Kempe/Strauss?
EMI.
Quote from: Spineur on May 19, 2017, 11:42:30 AMYes, this happens especially with older cd's. For some of them it is just defective pressing (all players have problem with them). For others it is cd aging: some of these older cds rip 20 times slower than the newer ones. And 3-4 of them could just not be ripped at all. Over my entire collection "problem cds" represent only a fraction of a %.
I'm inclined to think it is pressing related rather than aging. My old Telarc cds and even older DG cds (the ones pressed in West Germany) have pretty much all ripped fine. I haven't kept a tally of discs with rip issues, but I would guess it's in the 3-5% range, spread out over about 5000 discs so far. (And probably around 80% of rip issues occur in the last 1-2 tracks.) The ones I haven't been able to successfully rip, excluding copy protected discs, number less than twenty. One bummer is Momo Kodama's Vingt Regards. The last track will not rip, and dBpoweramp showed that 21,000+ frames would need to be re-ripped. EAC showed 20+ hours to rip. I'll just keep that disc in a CD rack ready for old-fashioned spinning.
Good luck with this time consuming work ! I started 18 months ago around christmas time where I had a long break and did most of the collection (1/4 yours!) in 4 weeks. Now I rip cds as soon as they arrive, excepts for operas because I just have too many of them. The big bummer is when the cds arent in the databases. This means typing it all by hands. Because of my eclectic tastes this happens quite regularly.
I have been on a ripping project of my own for some time. I've had no issues with EMI/Warner/Teldec/Erato/etc. But I have had a handful of Brilliant discs give my drive a problem to copy them (and some sound like they are skipping several time a second). On the other hand, they work fine in other players/drives. I've had this happen a handful of times over the years. I find that the disc drives in desktops will often take care of these problem discs. Maybe it's just the case of using another drive.
So far, I've had one track that refuses to play on any player or drive - last movement from Mahler/Symphony 5/Bertini. I do have an mp3 rip from some years ago, and it plays just fine, so something has happened to cause the last track to skip and then stop playing. I cannot see any faults on the disc, so I guess it just died. So either someone will neighborly provide a flac rip of the last track or I will need to figure out if there is disc I can get on the cheap to replace that track.
In any case, I find EAC too slow and abandoned it years ago (even for really bad ones, I'm not usually willing to spend hours to rip something). The rest have pluses and minuses, having used foobar, media monkey, windows media, and others. As long as the codec is a good one (LAME is a common rec), then I don't think it really matters which one you use.
I use musichi as a tagger (suggested from Jens) and ripper, and have liked that for a number of reasons. It gives me a lot of control over the tagging. Other parts I still haven't gotten to. I like that it has a lot of info from menus to pick, but the data is always the weak point in classical. I collect all the ones not there in order to send at some point.
Quote from: Todd on May 19, 2017, 09:30:15 AM
On a different note, every once in a while I run into discs with data errors that require lengthy rips. Case in point, disc six of Rudolf Kempe's Strauss box. Most of the tracks had errors, but EAC heroically (as heroically as freeware can) ripped the tracks. It took five hours to rip "The dinner" from Le Bourgeois gentilhomme, which turned out fine. However, when I tried ripping Schlagobers and Josephslegende, the secure rip times were unacceptable (Schlagobers was estimated at over 11 hours), and since I never listen to these, I switched to burst mode to be done with it. I decided to spin the disc in a CD player to hear if anything was amiss, and sure enough, crackling occurred throughout. If I really want to listen to these pieces again, I will have to get different recordings or pressings. I'm probably good.
If the CD is taking a long time to rip like that, this is where you need to use another drive, or another ripping programme, or both. I have a Sony USB external CD drive just for the purpose.
Oh I forgot, sometimes cleaning the CD helps, breath on it and then rub it on your trousers, that sort of thing.
Quote from: Todd on May 19, 2017, 08:35:40 AM
As I've continued ripping, I've run into more copy protected discs. All of them have been from Teldec/Erato. That's not to say all Teldec/Erato titles have been copy protected, because that is not the case. It also does not apply to all Warner titles; former EMI and new Warner-specific titles seem unaffected. The copy protection seems to come in two flavors: artificial noise (Harnoncourt's St Matthew) and drive offset manipulation (most titles, including all of Andras Schiff's). I don't think Teldec/Erato went the Trojan software installation route that Sony briefly did. At some point I may experiment with different drives to get around the problem, or perhaps even go for an old CD player/recorder combo that can be had for cheap. In the meantime, I will have to take the CDs out of the sleeves and put them in the transport by hand. How very inconvenient.
You've been unlucky or I've been lucky, copy protection problems have only occurred for me once. I dumped the CD (I think it was something with Argerich - maybe a transcription for two pianos of some Brahms chamber music.)
Has anyone had any experience with Dbpoweramp's Asset Media Server?
Has anyone found a way to link Naxos Media Library with Chromecast or another streamer?
Quote from: Spineur on May 19, 2017, 11:42:30 AM
Yes, this happens especially with older cd's. For some of them it is just defective pressing (all players have problem with them). For others it is cd aging: some of these older cds rip 20 times slower than the newer ones. And 3-4 of them could just not be ripped at all. Over my entire collection "problem cds" represent only a fraction of a %.
I did not experience any of the other difficulties you mentionned in your earlier posts. I use EAC with the gd3 database. EAC isnt your friendly software but I lived with it.
Do you know the factors which effect the speed of a rip?
Quote from: Mandryka on May 21, 2017, 12:06:08 AM
Do you know the factors which effect the speed of a rip?
Obviously the reader first. My previous cheap one could only do x5 on a good day. My current ASUS exceeds x20. Speed is adjusted upward/downward until error appear/disapear. So when you slow down to x0.2 you know the cd isnt in a good shape anymore.
Beside pressing issues, and aging (the aluminum layer becoming granular degrading the optical reflectivity), one of the very common issue comes when they spin the top plastic layer which protect the aliminium layer. Its thickness can be uneven at the edge. The laser beam does not focus properly on the aluminium layer leading to errors. This is why problems come often at the first few tracks. You can actually see the problem by just looking at the cd. Some people try to resurface the cd. This is quite difficult to do even with professional equipment.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 19, 2017, 09:17:52 PM
You've been unlucky or I've been lucky, copy protection problems have only occurred for me once. I dumped the CD (I think it was something with Argerich - maybe a transcription for two pianos of some Brahms chamber music.)
two piano version of the quintet (like the Haydn variations this is a legit alternative (maybe historically even older) version, not a later arrangement) + Mendelssohn trio. That's another one I have (and do not remember problems playing it, again, I didn't try to rip it). In this case I was not even aware that it was protected. Maybe I have more of them than I thought although I usually made an effort to avoid them around 2002-04 or so when they were somewhat comon.
Quote from: Spineur on May 21, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
Obviously the reader first. My previous cheap one could only do x5 on a good day. My current ASUS exceeds x20. Speed is adjusted upward/downward until error appear/disapear. So when you slow down to x0.2 you know the cd isnt in a good shape anymore.
Beside pressing issues, and aging (the aluminum layer becoming granular degrading the optical reflectivity), one of the very common issue comes when they spin the top plastic layer which protect the aliminium layer. Its thickness can be uneven at the edge. The laser beam does not focus properly on the aluminium layer leading to errors. This is why problems come often at the first few tracks. You can actually see the problem by just looking at the cd. Some people try to resurface the cd. This is quite difficult to do even with professional equipment.
CDs are written from the center outward (opposite of an LP) so the edge of the disc is the last track. The physical explanation seems plausible, and matches my experience that the last track of a CD is most likely to have problems.
Quote from: Scarpia on May 22, 2017, 11:29:20 AM
CDs are written from the center outward (opposite of an LP) so the edge of the disc is the last track. The physical explanation seems plausible, and matches my experience that the last track of a CD is most likely to have problems.
Exact. Another (unrelated) remark: my ASUS external drive which works really well is blu-ray capable. But I am not sure it uses the blu-laser with its smaller spot size to read the CD. Sometimes the head has two lasers a blue and a red one, so I do not know if this actually makes a difference.
Quote from: Todd on April 28, 2017, 07:27:41 AM
A few months ago I wanted to listen to one of my CDs, but I ran into a problem: I couldn't find it. My collection has grown so large and unruly that I have abandoned racks and rely on floor-bound stacks, out of any semblance of order. While obviously a problem born of self-indulgence and affluenza, I decided it was time to fix the problem. I decided to rip a major portion of my collection to allow for immediate access to whatever I may want to hear, and since Amazon offers unlimited online storage for $60/year, equal to Backblaze but with a helpful UI, I figured now was a good time to rip away and store off-site for personal disaster recovery purposes. (When the Cascadia Subduction Zone quake hits, if it is at the high end of projections, my home stands a greater than 50% chance of being leveled, and if I survive the quake, I will want access to some form of entertainment at some point.)
I've used EAC to occasionally rip discs since the turn of the century, and it is reliable with superb error correction. But it can be slow, and it is not really optimized for retrieving metadata. This is especially true with Asian market releases, of which I have not a few. Fortunately, Windows Media Player also rips nicely, and it's metadata retrieval and tagging is better, and it actually retrieves Japanese market metadata for almost every title I ripped. I started off ripping my LvB sonata cycle collection, which took a while, before switching to artist-based big boxes, which is now mostly done, which means that I have started in on the rest of my collection proper. Along the way, I had to swap out drives to a nice enough Asus 48x spinner. But what really ended up being helpful was switching to dBpoweramp for ripping. It's metadata system is much better than EAC or Media Player, and it's much better than going back and using foobar to tag after the fact. I'm not a big fan of MediaMonkey's interface, finding dBpoweramp easier and quicker to use. The cover image search and upload functions are simple and quick, whether at initial rip or after the fact, and the often times multiple metadata sets for tracks that are offered up for each disc make choosing the right one easy. Of course, the "catch" is that the software is not free, but at $50-ish for two licenses, and about $5/year going forward, it's not spendy, either.
Now it's my go-to, though on discs that have errors (ie, discs available in AccurateRip where ultra-secure ripping kicks in), I switch to EAC to rip affected tracks as it works faster in every case. More than half the time when ultra-secure kicks in, the program ends up re-ripping by frame, and that just takes too long.
When I started ripping, I did some A/Bs between WAV and FLAC, and sure enough, they sound the same, so I went with FLAC for almost all ripping. I also compared encoding levels, and ended up sticking with level 5 for a size/decoding sweet-spot. I use Oppos as transports, and the 10x and forward players have gapless playback as a standard function, so now I just plug in an external hard drive loaded with music and go. It's immense fun to be able to sift through titles and do A/Bs on a whim. I'm closing in on three thousand ripped discs, and have about another three thousand or so to go before I'm done. I do not plan on ripping my opera collection since I don't listen to a lot of opera these days, and if/when I return to listening to more of it, I won't be doing any A/B listening, or skipping around from one act in Opera X to another act in Opera Y. I've also regained some floor and storage space in my listening room. Once the discs are ripped, I box them up and store them in the garage. Easier access and more space, what's not to like?
Well, I found one thing that might qualify. On some piano recordings, I've noticed that non-musical sound is now more audible. (Sounds include chair and piano creaks, damper mechanism noise, and the like.) The sounds are still largely there when listening to CD, they are just lower in level, though some sounds are absent. At first, I thought there was an issue with the rips, so I re-ripped as WAV and FLAC, and re-listened on two different systems. I also relied on my son's more youthful ears to verify if he heard anything. The results were the same. The differences have been most pronounced on Denon CDs, namely Michel Dalberto's Schubert, which I can live with, and Michel Beroff's Debussy, which is more of an issue. The only thing I can think of that might be causing this is that the record companies consciously rely on CD player error correction to filter out certain sounds, just as they introduced noise as one form of copy control with the express intention of relying on error correction to filter it out. Of course, I can always just rely on CDs in any cases where this becomes an issue. And something else might be causing the issue.
I've also learned, over and over again, that not all CD pressings are the same. Older Telarc pressings seem to be spot-on in every case when it comes to metadata and error correction, followed by Japanese market pressings (and the Japanese are, hands down, the most thorough when it comes to labeling each and every track meticulously), followed by French pressings, and then it varies. The worst ripping experience I had was with Stewart Goodyear's Beethoven cycle. I had to use EAC, and the rip speeds dropped well below 1x speed with continuous error correction. I've not listened to the whole cycle in ripped form yet, but the couple sonatas I have listened to all sound fine. And I've also ran into copy controlled discs, all of them from Teldec/Erato so far. Fortunately, none of the titles are oft-listened to, and one (Lubimov's Mozart) may never be listened to again, so it's not a big issue yet.
Modern technology is fun.
When you do the backup, do you use some software to clone your ripped files on the cloud? (Without a cloning package it's going to be difficult to keep everything synced. I believe amazon no longer allows rclone, which did the job nicely, I wonder if there's anything else.)
Quote from: Mandryka on May 29, 2017, 10:35:11 AM
When you do the backup, do you use some software to clone your ripped files on the cloud? (Without a cloning package it's going to be difficult to keep everything synced. I believe amazon no longer allows rclone, which did the job nicely, I wonder if there's anything else.)
I just use Chrome to drag and drop folders. Amazon also has its own upload utility.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 19, 2017, 01:10:38 PM
I use musichi as a tagger (suggested from Jens) and ripper, and have liked that for a number of reasons. It gives me a lot of control over the tagging. Other parts I still haven't gotten to. I like that it has a lot of info from menus to pick, but the data is always the weak point in classical. I collect all the ones not there in order to send at some point.
That's gratifying to hear. Find it useful? Not too cumbersome? What do you think should be better about it, if anything? I still haven't gotten around to using it myself - mostly because I don't have time to rip my CD library - but I am interested in it all the same.
Quote from: Todd on May 29, 2017, 10:43:11 AM
I just use Chrome to drag and drop folders. Amazon also has its own upload utility.
The problem will come when you make changes to existing files, delete files, alter tags when you start to use them, change file names etc. I think it's best to have a regular backup routine which finds these changes and updates the cloud accordingly, without overwriting everything you've stored obviously. Without it things will be manageable, but more difficult, and in large databases, over the years, there probably will be disparities between the cloud and your music at home.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 29, 2017, 11:09:44 AM
The problem will come when you make changes to existing files, delete files, alter tags when you start to use them, change file names etc. I think it's best to have a regular backup routine which finds these changes and updates the cloud accordingly, without overwriting everything you've stored obviously. Without it things will be manageable, but more difficult, and in large databases, over the years, there probably will be disparities between the cloud and your music at home.
I use Amazon for what amounts to cold storage. My ripping is purely additive. In the event I do re-rip something, I just re-upload. If I were concerned about active syncing, I'd use Carbonite.
Sure, but what will happen at some point is that you've wrongly tagged or named a file, or that you've uploaded something twice, that sort of thing. In a big data base like yous will be that sort of thing is bound to happen. You can deal with it without cloning if you're disciplined I suppose.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 29, 2017, 11:24:16 AMSure, but what will happen at some point is that you've wrongly tagged or named a file, or that you've uploaded something twice, that sort of thing. In a big data base like yous will be that sort of thing is bound to happen.
Amazon is just for backup for me. Dupes don't matter, and I rely on apps for metadata and fix as needed while ripping. I reserve fastidious data management for work.
For my part, I would want a way to check that what's on the cloud is the same as what's on my hard drive at home -- without that I won't do cloud backups. You will have an enormous database, you will make changes.
Quote from: Todd on May 29, 2017, 11:27:34 AM
Amazon is just for backup for me. Dupes don't matter, and I rely on apps for metadata and fix as needed while ripping. I reserve fastidious data management for work.
Yes, in a perfect world you'd be happy to use apps for metadata all the time.
I just decided to trial Backblaze, which does appear to be a genuine backup scheme (rather than amazon's storage offering), and automatic too. I have no idea how long it will take to upload all the files, if it takes weeks I don't see it really matters.
If Backblaze is as good as its own publicity says it is then it could be a godsend.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 29, 2017, 10:56:51 AM
That's gratifying to hear. Find it useful? Not too cumbersome? What do you think should be better about it, if anything? I still haven't gotten around to using it myself - mostly because I don't have time to rip my CD library - but I am interested in it all the same.
The weakest part is simply the data. Some companies are much better about having their most recent entries in the data bases. And because there are only really two databases it accesses, it can be an issue (although it also directly accesses Amazon as well). On the other hand, it does give you a way to import tables, but I haven't figured that out exactly yet. Anyway, that is mostly an issue with the databases and could happen in any ripper/player.
On the musichi side, it still doesn't have some of the less mainstream composers, conductors, performers, etc in the software database. For example, I can enter Smith, and it will give me every performer with that names (first or last) and I can choose to insert (in the format I have pre-selected), but if Adahoo Smith isn't in the database, I need to enter by hand. It's not a big deal most of the time, but some are a pain if there are a lot of performers to enter (like an opera). That said, once you enter it for one disc, it's a snap to load them all up and copy across the discs (so no need to do it every time). They (musichi) do update it (the internal databases) periodically, so it is always improving.
I like how customizable it is and how easy it is to fix errors across discs. You can add/change categories quite easily. The program can be cumbersome in how the libraries are used - one program organizes/manages, one rips, one tags, and one plays. You can link them, but some things can be a multi-step process. Still, once you've ripped everything, this issue mostly goes away. On the other hand, I love how the tagger allows you to upload whatever discs you want and edit just them (isolated from the rest of your collection).
For popular composers, the database also includes the pieces (searchable by name, opus #, or other catalog # as appropriate). This is a great feature that does allow you to better organize some works, for example, Beethoven piano sonatas. I can change the style/format of the text too, so you can personalize it (to a large degree) on how you like to see the names of pieces.
Their player always adds a gap between tracks when playing, so I have it linked to media monkey to open automatically. it's easy to set up, but not sure why they did it. It only really affects operas and a few other types of pieces.
What I've noticed is that I put more information into the tags than I used to. I think it's because the tagger element is more textual, and I can more easily paste the data than in some of the fancier, but graphic heavy rippers/players. I think it also works that way because there is no need to scroll. The 'pane' for each track/disc shows all the key info on the screen, whereas many others seem to put each track, for example, in one row that just keeps going on until it runs out of text to show you. They do that too, but if you make a selection, it brings up a window for just that selection (without the scrolling). I suppose it is a bit like iTunes in this regard.
So overall, despite some small issues, I rather like it, mostly for the tagging. Anyone more interested in a slick looking program with lots of graphic elements might find it less appealing.
Hello,
I am the designer of Musichi, thanks for the nice comments you wrote in this thread. Let me answer, some of the points you made.
1) Gapeless issues: this is best answered in this post https://musichieu.wordpress.com/how-to-use-an-external-player/
2) We do believe in the division of labor and we tried to optimize each task in the most efficient way in each application of the suite. For example a ripper is just to transform a CD tracks into files, with the option of pre-tagging or later tag them with the tagger. It should not be in the player, which is designed to just to play. Bear in mind MusiCHI is one of the very few software which is multi libraries [because IMHO the interface needed for classical is different than the one needed for jazz or pop]; So when you rip I have no idea if you want to include these tracks in the classical, world music or else lib.
Same if you edit metadata in the tagger, to have the changes reflected in the lib you need to refresh it and we have tool to reconcile the file system and the libraries, and we did not want to do accomplish this as a background task. I want the user to be in control, not the software [Philosophical choice :-)], this is why you need a few more clicks to have all synchronized.
3) For missing performers, composers you are very welcome to send the list by mail, and we will included it ASAP and release and new version of the database. A lot of users do this already.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on May 30, 2017, 03:14:59 AM
The weakest part is simply the data. Some companies are much better about having their most recent entries in the data bases. And because there are only really two databases it accesses, it can be an issue (although it also directly accesses Amazon as well). On the other hand, it does give you a way to import tables, but I haven't figured that out exactly yet. Anyway, that is mostly an issue with the databases and could happen in any ripper/player.
On the musichi side, it still doesn't have some of the less mainstream composers, conductors, performers, etc in the software database. For example, I can enter Smith, and it will give me every performer with that names (first or last) and I can choose to insert (in the format I have pre-selected), but if Adahoo Smith isn't in the database, I need to enter by hand. It's not a big deal most of the time, but some are a pain if there are a lot of performers to enter (like an opera). That said, once you enter it for one disc, it's a snap to load them all up and copy across the discs (so no need to do it every time). They (musichi) do update it (the internal databases) periodically, so it is always improving.
I like how customizable it is and how easy it is to fix errors across discs. You can add/change categories quite easily. The program can be cumbersome in how the libraries are used - one program organizes/manages, one rips, one tags, and one plays. You can link them, but some things can be a multi-step process. Still, once you've ripped everything, this issue mostly goes away. On the other hand, I love how the tagger allows you to upload whatever discs you want and edit just them (isolated from the rest of your collection).
For popular composers, the database also includes the pieces (searchable by name, opus #, or other catalog # as appropriate). This is a great feature that does allow you to better organize some works, for example, Beethoven piano sonatas. I can change the style/format of the text too, so you can personalize it (to a large degree) on how you like to see the names of pieces.
Their player always adds a gap between tracks when playing, so I have it linked to media monkey to open automatically. it's easy to set up, but not sure why they did it. It only really affects operas and a few other types of pieces.
What I've noticed is that I put more information into the tags than I used to. I think it's because the tagger element is more textual, and I can more easily paste the data than in some of the fancier, but graphic heavy rippers/players. I think it also works that way because there is no need to scroll. The 'pane' for each track/disc shows all the key info on the screen, whereas many others seem to put each track, for example, in one row that just keeps going on until it runs out of text to show you. They do that too, but if you make a selection, it brings up a window for just that selection (without the scrolling). I suppose it is a bit like iTunes in this regard.
So overall, despite some small issues, I rather like it, mostly for the tagging. Anyone more interested in a slick looking program with lots of graphic elements might find it less appealing.
Thanks for the detailed reply! I think the MusiCHI writer will chime in shortly, himself...
Amazon is ending it's unlimited storage for $60/year. Bastards. Now I'll have to find another cheap online storage solution to exploit.
Backblaze:
Excellent customer support
Easy user interface
The initial upload is slow, but that's inevitable, mine (2Tb) is not yet finished, I still have 350,000 MB to go, but it's coming to an end, I expect it will take about 3 weeks all in all.
Upload speeds slow down in the initial upload the more you upload. That's because there's a "deduplication" programme which has more to check. The more RAM the better of course. Mine took no time at all for the first third, the last third is going in at about 100GB or less in 24 hours. It's not a real problem, apart from my impatience. My upload speeds seem to average at about 15mbps. The computer's still useable but the UI is arthritic. But streaming music from it is fine and I just ran a virus check with no problem, and this post is done on it, I don't use it for other things really.
Music files are particularly slow to upload because Backblaze makes a copy of any file over 30MB before uploading.
There are some setting adjustments worth making for the initial upload - throttle to max and no. of threads to max.
I have very positive feelings about Backblaze. Once the initial backup is made you set the controls to automatic and subsequent backups occur automatically and slowly in the background, and with no noticeable effects on the computer or network. It took 3 weeks to upload 2TB. Good find Todd, thanks for mentioning it.
The most wonderful thing about Backblaze in its "continuous" mode is that it detects when a new file is created and invisibly backs it up, that's to say you just don't notice it's happening and you don't have to do anything to make it happen. I downloaded a CD at about 3pm today and by 7 it was there in Backblaze. It really is impressive.
I've just had the experience of changing the computer which I use for my server, with some possibly useful lessons.
1. In the process of making the change, I have rejected dbpoweramp. I discovered that foobar2000 can do most everything dbpoweramp can do for ripping and for file conversion, and more so when it comes to tagging. And it's free.
2. The transition was very easy to manage in backblaze and once again their customer service was outstanding.
3. I have been using syncBack free for onsite backup for a while now (it is by far the best backup programme I've found), and once again the transition was completely painless.
I just found that having the physical CD is a always a good thing. I wanted to listen to Satie, Le fils des étoiles (Lubimov) and to my dismay, I didnt find it on my server. I was pretty sure I had ripped it. Somehow, I forgot to transfer the files from my computer, or they somehow evaporated. Well, that meant a double ripping job for this one.
I have been using a QNAP server for the storage and home streaming. Besides this anecdote, it has worked well for me.
One way it's easy to lose a ripped CD is if you've made a tagging error, normally for me a spelling issue. For example I was going mad the other day trying to find a recording of something by Schoenberg, but it turned out I'd tagged it Schönberg.
This is the sort of thing which makes it good to have a backup which mirrors your music server, rather than just adding all changes as new objects to the backup incrementally.