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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: BachQ on April 12, 2007, 10:10:00 AM

Title: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on April 12, 2007, 10:10:00 AM


Danish composer Carl Nielsen (1865-1931) is perhaps best known for his cycle of six symphonies; other well-known compositions include his incidental music for Aladdin, the operas Saul og David and Maskarade, the concerti for flute, violin and for clarinet, the wind quintet, and the Helios Overture.  My favorite works are his 4th Symphony in d minor and his Helios Overture.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Carl-Nielsen.jpg/330px-Carl-Nielsen.jpg)

Links:

CLICK: This is a web adaptation of a travelling exhibition originally produced  by Danish Music Information Centre   (http://www.kunststyrelsen.dk/nielsen/index.htm)

CLICK: Chronology Work Catalog  (http://members.aol.com/dmlovelock/nielsen_fog.htm)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on April 12, 2007, 10:11:53 AM
Here's what Dave (MaestroDJS) has to say:


*** In August 1977 Rose Records in Chicago promoted a special offer on the Seraphim LP sets of the complete symphonies and concerti by the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra with Herbert Blomstedt.  *** Each of the 6 symphonies and the 3 concerti had a very different personality, but all bore the stamp of a very individual and striking composer. Blomstedt included several other short orchestral works in his set, most importantly the utterly magnificent and radiantly arch-like Helios Overture, which Nielsen composed while on holiday in Athens, Greece in 1903.  Nielsen wrote of this score: "Silence and darkness -- then the Sun rises with a joyous song of praise -- it wanders its golden way -- and sinks quietly into the sea."

Some facets of the 6 symphonies which immediately impressed themselves on my mind were:

Symphony No. 1 in G Minor (1892):  The surprising C Major chord which begins the work but is immediately pushed aside by the G Minor tonality.  Brahms praised this work.

Symphony No. 2 "The 4 Temperaments" (1902):  The sheer brute strength of the entire first movement.  The choleric temperament roars with rage but also shows streaks of tenderness.  The symphony derives its subtitle from a series of portraits Nielsen had seen in a pub in Zeeland, and he dedicated this work to Ferruccio Busoni.

Symphony No. 3 "Sinfonia espansiva" (1911):  The energetic minor tonality of the first movement which suddenly gives way to major key final chords; then the hauntingly glowing and hazily shifting tonalities of the slow movement.

Symphony No. 4 "The Inextinguishable" (1916):  The relentless forward momentum of the entire work which never stops, even in the slow movements.  The dueling pairs of timpani in the finale are unforgettable and lead to a rousing conclusion.

Symphony No. 5 (1922):  The gentle 2-note viola ostinato upon which the music raises its musical arguments.

Symphony No. 6 "Sinfonia semplice" (1925):  The almost comic simplicity which begins the work but which evolves into some of the most heart-rending tragedy in music.  In few other pieces of music are high comedy and bleak tragedy so intimately interwoven.

Incidentally, in the late 1970s one of the biggest rock hits was We Will Rock You by Queen.  It often blasted forth from dorms, frat houses and apartments around the university.  Boom-boom-clap!  Boom-boom-clap!  Well, those drums were insignificant compared to the cataclysmic pairs of timpani in the finale of Nielsen's Symphony No. 4.  With my stereo cranked up to eleven, it was well and truly The Inextinguishable.  We are the champions, my friends.

Recently I wrote about the underrated Jean Martinon, who made some outstanding recordings during his tenure as conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra from 1963 to 1968.  At that time, Morton Gould also made some superb recordings as guest conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, most notably of music by Charles Ives.  In 1966 Gould also recorded Nielsen's Symphony No. 2 "The 4 Temperaments" and Clarinet Concerto with soloist Benny Goodman.  Gould was primarily a composer, so it was a pleasant surprise to encounter him in Nielsen.  The symphony is given an exciting performance.  Goodman is best remembered as a jazz performer, but he recorded many classical clarinet works throughout his career, such as Mozart, Weber, Bartók, Stravinsky, Copland etc.  His versatility is outstanding in the Nielsen concerto.  A few years ago I found this vintage LP at 2nd-Hand Tunes on Clark Street in Chicago, along with Gould's Ives recordings.  Also in 1966, Jean Martinon recorded Symphony No. 4 "The Inextinguishable" and Helios Overture with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, but I have not heard these performances.

Carl Nielsen is unquestionably and inextinguishably one of the peaks of my record collection.  I also owe to him most of the few Danish words I have learnt along the way, taken from his titles: "Ved en ung Kunstners Baare" (At the Bier of a Young Artist), "En Fantasirejse til Færøerne" (An Imaginary Trip to the Faroe Islands), and above all "Det Uudslukkelige" (The Inextinguishable).  These phrases will probably not prove useful on a visit to Denmark, but you never know.  To quote Nielsen himself: "Musik er Liv, som dette uudslukkelig." ("Music is life, and, like it, inextinguishable.")

Dave

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: springrite on April 12, 2007, 10:13:23 AM
It is amazing how many composers in the 20th century, especially symphonists, are influenced by Nielsen. He is perhaps the most Beethovenian of later symphonist, and thus serve as a more ideal model than the more distant Beethoven, I guess.

My favorite Nielsen work is the wind quintet.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on April 12, 2007, 10:16:41 AM
Nielsen's Boyhood Home

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Denmark-Carl_Nielsen%27s_Childhood_Home.JPG/800px-Denmark-Carl_Nielsen%27s_Childhood_Home.JPG)

(http://www.kunststyrelsen.dk/nielsen/203.gif)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on April 12, 2007, 10:18:22 AM
I love Funen in the springtime . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: springrite on April 12, 2007, 10:19:33 AM
If you think about it, Nielsen and his home actually look quite alike.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on May 17, 2007, 04:14:03 AM
Recently released:  (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/210/2100992.jpg)

Nielsen, Chamber Works for Violin and Strings
Label:  Bis   Catalog #: 1444   Spars Code: DDD 
Composer:  Carl Nielsen
Performer:  Maria Asteriadou,  Georgios Demertzis
Orchestra/Ensemble:  New Hellenic Quartet
Recorded in: Stereo
Length: 1 Hours 9 Mins.


1.    Sonata for Violin and Piano in G, FS3b by Carl Nielsen
   Performer:  Maria Asteriadou (Piano), Georgios Demertzis (Violin) Written: 1881-2        
   
   
2.    Duet in A, FS3e by Carl Nielsen    
   Performer:  Georgios Demertzis (Violin) Written: 1882-3           
   
   
3.    Romance in D by Carl Nielsen    
   Performer:  Maria Asteriadou (Piano), Georgios Demertzis (Violin) Written: 1883           
   
   
4.    String Quartet in D minor, FS3d by Carl Nielsen    
   Orchestra/Ensemble:  New Hellenic Quartet Written: 1882-3           
   
   
5.    String Quartet in F, FS3k by Carl Nielsen    
   Orchestra/Ensemble:  New Hellenic Quartet Written: 1887           
   
   
6.    Andante Sostenuto, FS3c by Carl Nielsen    
   Orchestra/Ensemble:  New Hellenic Quartet Written: c1883-7           
   
   
7.    Scherzo, FS3c by Carl Nielsen    
   Orchestra/Ensemble:  New Hellenic Quartet Written: c1883-7           
   
   
8.    Romance, Op 2 by Carl Nielsen    
   Performer:  Maria Asteriadou (Piano), Georgios Demertzis (Violin) Written: 1889          

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 17, 2007, 04:18:30 AM
That looks yummy!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on May 17, 2007, 04:20:16 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 17, 2007, 04:18:30 AM
That looks yummy!

My eyes are on the String Quartet in D Minor . . . . . .  :D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on May 17, 2007, 04:20:44 AM
Also recently released:  (http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/97/972139.jpg)

Nielsen: Orchestral Music / Dausgaard, Danish National So
Label:  Dacapo   Catalog #: 6220518   Spars Code: n/a 
Composer:  Carl Nielsen
Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard
Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra
Number of Discs: 1
Recorded in: Multi
Length: 1 Hours 12 Mins.


1.    Maskarade, FS 39: Overture by Carl Nielsen
   Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra Written: 1906        
   
   
2.    Maskarade, FS 39: Dance of the Cockerels by Carl Nielsen    
   Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra Period: 20th Century Written: 1904-1906; Denmark           
   
   
3.    Snefrid, FS 17: Suite by Carl Nielsen    
   Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra Period: 20th Century Written: 1893; Denmark           
   
   
4.    An imaginary trip to the Faeroe Islands, FS 123 by Carl Nielsen    
   Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra Period: 20th Century Written: 1927; Denmark           
   
   
5.    Pan and Syrinx, Op. 49 by Carl Nielsen    
   Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra Period: 20th Century Written: 1917-1918; Denmark           
   
   
6.    Amor og Digteren, FS 150/Op. 54: Overture by Carl Nielsen    
   Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra Period: 20th Century Written: 1930; Denmark           
   
   
7.    Helios Overture, FS 32/Op. 17 by Carl Nielsen    
   Conductor:  Thomas Dausgaard Orchestra/Ensemble:  Danish National Symphony Orchestra Period: 20th Century Written: 1903; Denmark          

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on May 17, 2007, 04:22:45 AM
Talk about a slam-dunk! This is without doubt the finest collection of Nielsen's short orchestral works currently available. It is perfectly played, brilliantly conducted, and superbly recorded in stereo and SACD formats. You won't hear a more ebullient performance of the Maskerade Overture anywhere. Thomas Dausgaard keeps the tension mounting right through the quiet central episode, and the coda is beyond exciting. The manic eruptions in both An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands and Pan and Syrinx rage with uninhibited impact, but the poetry in the soft passages isn't ever slighted, particularly in the latter. The Prelude to Act 2 of Saul and David sounds suitably imposing, while a rousing, joyous account of the Helios Overture closes the program in the most satisfying and contented fashion imaginable.

What makes this disc even more satisfying is the presence of some very rare examples of Nielsen's extensive output of incidental music. Usually we only get to hear Aladdin, or very occasionally the overture to Love and the Poet (but not as well played as here). Willemoes is only a charming couple of minutes long, but the Snefrid Suite and the Hr. Oluf Hand Rider Prelude are more substantial. The former dates from the period of the First Symphony (early 1890s) and finds the composer discovering his personal voice, particularly in terms of harmony. The latter dates from the same period as Maskerade (around 1906), and it's a fully characteristic gem. In all of this music the playing of the orchestra reveals proprietary pride without a trace of complacency or routine. Everything sounds fresh and new, and if you don't love this disc, then--well, never mind. It's just plain irresistible. Might there be a sequel in the offing, with Aladdin, Saga-Drom, and the remaining shorter orchestral works? We can only hope.

--David Hurwitz, ClassicsToday.com
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Hector on May 17, 2007, 06:25:55 AM
Quote from: D Minor on May 17, 2007, 04:22:45 AM
Talk about a slam-dunk! This is without doubt the finest collection of Nielsen's short orchestral works currently available. It is perfectly played, brilliantly conducted, and superbly recorded in stereo and SACD formats. You won't hear a more ebullient performance of the Maskerade Overture anywhere. Thomas Dausgaard keeps the tension mounting right through the quiet central episode, and the coda is beyond exciting. The manic eruptions in both An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands and Pan and Syrinx rage with uninhibited impact, but the poetry in the soft passages isn't ever slighted, particularly in the latter. The Prelude to Act 2 of Saul and David sounds suitably imposing, while a rousing, joyous account of the Helios Overture closes the program in the most satisfying and contented fashion imaginable.

What makes this disc even more satisfying is the presence of some very rare examples of Nielsen's extensive output of incidental music. Usually we only get to hear Aladdin, or very occasionally the overture to Love and the Poet (but not as well played as here). Willemoes is only a charming couple of minutes long, but the Snefrid Suite and the Hr. Oluf Hand Rider Prelude are more substantial. The former dates from the period of the First Symphony (early 1890s) and finds the composer discovering his personal voice, particularly in terms of harmony. The latter dates from the same period as Maskerade (around 1906), and it's a fully characteristic gem. In all of this music the playing of the orchestra reveals proprietary pride without a trace of complacency or routine. Everything sounds fresh and new, and if you don't love this disc, then--well, never mind. It's just plain irresistible. Might there be a sequel in the offing, with Aladdin, Saga-Drom, and the remaining shorter orchestral works? We can only hope.

--David Hurwitz, ClassicsToday.com


He's right, for once. I bought this last month and can testify to its excellence.

Music new to disc given splendid performances by the composer's countrymen.

'Helios' never fails with me, anyway!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on June 09, 2007, 04:01:29 AM
Quote from: Hector on May 17, 2007, 06:25:55 AM
'Helios' never fails with me, anyway!

Very true!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on June 09, 2007, 04:02:24 AM
Carl August Nielsen (June 9, 1865 – October 3, 1931)  Happy Birthday, Old Chum
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Christo on June 10, 2007, 05:41:38 AM
Quote from: springrite on April 12, 2007, 10:19:33 AM
If you think about it, Nielsen and his home actually look quite alike.
(http://www.visitfyn.com/modules/xphoto/cache/5/3105_472_800.png)
(http://www.classical.net/music/images/composer/n/nielsen.jpg)(http://www.visitcopenhagen.com/tourist/about_copenhagen/history/great_danes_-_past/media(356,1033)/Carl_Nielsen_sort_%2Fhvid_foto.jpg)(http://www.eclassical.com/i/pictures/Composers/Nielsen.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 10, 2007, 08:12:27 AM
Last night, in observance of Nielsen's 142nd birthday, I listened to the complete Maskerade. A delightful piece. Not nearly as powerful as his later symphonies, but full of charm and light comedy. (It dates from 1905, just after the Second Symphony.) From the liner notes, I learn that it was a huge popular success and quickly became Denmark's national opera, in part for the things it had to say --- palatably, of course --- about equality and freedom. The story brings Denmark, symbolically,  from the middle ages into the modern world. And Danish is such a lovely language for singing.

I don't know if the piece has vever been produced in the US. I once tries to interest the OPera COmany of Philadlpehia in it, but I don't think I got through.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on June 12, 2007, 05:25:08 AM
A great composer: I love Symphony 5  (espec. recordings by Tuxen, Jensen, Horenstein, Bernstein, Gibson and Kubelik).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 12, 2007, 05:31:49 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 10, 2007, 08:12:27 AM
Last night, in observance of Nielsen's 142nd birthday, I listened to the complete Maskerade. A delightful piece. Not nearly as powerful as his later symphonies, but full of charm and light comedy.

(* Beats the Maskarade drum *)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on June 15, 2007, 11:27:28 AM
Today on his blog, Alex Ross has an absolutely wonderful Nielsen quote (http://www.therestisnoise.com/2007/06/living_music.html).

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 15, 2007, 11:42:28 AM
Bruce!

:-)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 15, 2007, 03:55:13 PM
Quote from: bhodges on June 15, 2007, 11:27:28 AM
Alex Ross ...

Ewww ... ;) And according to his blog, he's writing a book. Head for the hills.

Here's the quotation, by the way:


"If music were to assume human form and explain its essence, it may say something like this: '...I love the vast surface of silence; and it is my chief delight to break it.'" — Carl Nielsen



Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Raisa on June 17, 2007, 05:05:28 AM
I love the drum battle in The Inextinguishable!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 25, 2007, 10:11:08 AM
I love everything about "The Inextinguishable."

As for this recording:

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/97/972139.jpg)

I just recieved and listened to my copy, and it is everything D Minor says it is: lovely music in sparkling performances. The program is an interesting mixture of early and late works, contrasting the heroic period of Nieslen's youth with his more introspective old age, though the earliest piece on the disk, Snefrid, which dates from 1893/94, is one of the most subdued. Very little of this work resembles the music of the great middle symphonies, but it deserves to be better known.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: beclemund on June 25, 2007, 10:24:26 AM
If you had to pick two of your favorite performances of each of Nielsen's symphonies that are currently in print (or at least readily available), which would you choose? I do not have a single work by this composer and I would really like to explore his symphonies, at the very least.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 25, 2007, 11:07:14 AM
Isn't the indomitable snare drum in the Fifth Symphony?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 25, 2007, 11:54:13 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 25, 2007, 11:07:14 AM
Isn't the indomitable snare drum in the Fifth Symphony?

The indomitable snare drum is indeed in the Fifth Symphony, but I think Raisa is referring to the battle of the kettle drums in the Fourth. Nielsen places two sets of timpani on opposite ends of the stage and lets them go at it in the last section.

Beclemund, there are a few truly outstanding performances of Nielsen's symphonies. Bernstein recorded excellent versions of Nos. 3 (with the Royal Danish Symphony), and 4 and 5 (with the NYPO). They are out of print, but you can probably find them used at Amazon. Jean Martinon and the Chicago Symphony also recorded the Fourth in a headlong reading that's a favorite of many here, myself included. It's been re-issued by RCA, paired with a perfromance of No. 2 with Morton Gould conducting the CSO. The disk is really worth having.

I've always been very excited by the Horenstein's rendition of the Fifth with  the New Philharmonia Orchestra, which has just been rereleased with his performance of Mahler's Ninth. 

Ole Schmidt recorded all six with the London Phil. The performances are all excellent and have been reissued in a three-disk edition. You could do worse than to start there.   
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on June 25, 2007, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: beclemund on June 25, 2007, 10:24:26 AM
If you had to pick two of your favorite performances of each of Nielsen's symphonies that are currently in print (or at least readily available), which would you choose? I do not have a single work by this composer and I would really like to explore his symphonies, at the very least.

I am happy with all the symphonies on Naxos but that's me. Nielsen is one of the greatest symphonists and his style is very unique. 
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: rubio on June 27, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 25, 2007, 11:54:13 AM
I've always been very excited by the Horenstein's rendition of the Fifth with  the New Philharmonia Orchestra, which has just been rereleased with his performance of Mahler's Ninth. 

Where is this one available, and which performance is it? I've been long looking for Horensteins classic performance of the 5th once released on the Unicorn label. It was well-known for some incredible snare drum playing. Last year another performance of Horenstein's Nielsen 5th with the New Philharmonia Orchestra was released on BBC Legends coupled with a recording of his Mahler 6th. Is it this one you refer to?

Anybody know if there are differences in sound quality between the Bernstein Royal Edition and the complete set of the Nielsen symphonies on Sony Essential Classics?

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/4158P6ZS30L._AA240_.jpg)  (http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/01/9/9/228.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Choo Choo on June 27, 2007, 01:22:41 AM
Quote from: rubio on June 27, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
Anybody know if there are differences in sound quality between the Bernstein Royal Edition and the complete set of the Nielsen symphonies on Sony Essential Classics?

I have both (got the box for the Ormandy recordings.)  I don't recall there being any noticeable difference in sound quality, but will give them another listen to make sure.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: rubio on June 27, 2007, 08:15:05 AM
Quote from: Choo Choo on June 27, 2007, 01:22:41 AM
I don't recall there being any noticeable difference in sound quality, but will give them another listen to make sure.

I look forward to hear your opinion!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 27, 2007, 10:13:19 AM
Quote from: rubio on June 27, 2007, 12:35:41 AM
Last year another performance of Horenstein's Nielsen 5th with the New Philharmonia Orchestra was released on BBC Legends coupled with a recording of his Mahler 6th. Is it this one you refer to?

Yep. That's the one I mean.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Choo Choo on June 27, 2007, 11:20:35 AM
OK.  I have done a comparison of the 4th Symphony from the two sets.

First up was a blind A/B listening comparison of the 1st movement - "blind" because I used a PC that has 2 CD drives but I don't know which drive has which letter, and I can't see the PC from my desk so wouldn't see lights flashing.  Through headphones I couldn't detect any significant difference.  I might have thought there were some very slight differences in tone at several points, but if so then these were far too small to be sure about - and certainly not enough to be able to say that one was better than the other.

Then I ripped both tracks to WAV files, using the same CD drive and identical settings, and loaded them into an editor.  Overall the shapes looked identical - although if I focussed down on small intervals then it was possible to find some small differences in the relative heights of some adjacent peaks.  To me these looked consistent with the same set of analogue tapes being processed through different generations of digital equipment.  Certainly it was not a case of one transfer being more compressed than the other (as you find sometimes when comparing the same recording on two different labels.)  We are talking fractions of a percent in the difference.

Timings for the whole 4th symphony are very close : 40'12.98" for the Royal edition, 40'09.88" for the Essential Classics - the difference easily accounted for by differences in the track gaps.

So yes, these look like they are two different transfers - and if you examine them in this sort of detail, yes you can find some very very small differences - but are these significant?  I don't think so.  Certainly not enough to justify any difference in price.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: rubio on June 27, 2007, 11:55:37 AM
Thank you for that thorough sound comparison of these two versions, Choo Choo! I will go for the Bernstein/Ormandy set then. I need to order while there are still some CD's left  :).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Choo Choo on June 27, 2007, 12:17:54 PM
Good choice.  Though Bernstein gets the headlines, those Ormandy recordings are well worth hearing too - #6 particularly so.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on February 08, 2008, 07:51:17 AM
CARL NIELSEN
Piano Trio in G major; Serenata in vano; Wind Quintet; Fantasy Piece for Clarinet & Piano; Two Fantasy Pieces for Oboe & Piano; Canto Serioso; From "Moderen"
DiamantEnsemblet
Trio Ondine

Dacapo- 8.226064(CD)

(http://www.classicstoday.com/images/coverpics/11482_coverpic.jpg)

This first volume in a series devoted to Nielsen's chamber music for mixed ensembles contains some late masterpieces (Serenata in vano and the Wind Quintet) as well as some music from the very beginning of his career (the Trio and Fantasy Piece for Clarinet). The Trio, about which the notes say nothing, dates from 1883, which is to say pre-Op. 1, and shows that even when Nielsen was at his most derivative his music always was melodically appealing and rhythmically exciting. The piece lasts only a bit more than 10 minutes, and its handling of form is rudimentary, but it's really very enjoyable from beginning to end. Trio Ondine plays it with the youthful energy it needs, and with the kind of direct, unaffected expression that never suggests depths that aren't there.


The remaining pieces all feature wind instruments in some combination, most notably the magnificent Wind Quintet, here beautifully performed by the DiamantEnsemblet (and particularly the excellent oboist, who doubles on English horn as well). They also clearly have a great time with the humorous Serenata in vano--but then all of this music, large and small, comes off very stylishly. The sonics are particularly good in the larger ensemble pieces, but the winds are balanced a touch too closely against the piano in the duos, with the consequent occasional prominence of clicking valves and breathing. Still, given the range of forces and the sonic challenges they present, this is a very successful and wholly entertaining release.


--David Hurwitz
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: uffeviking on February 22, 2008, 04:11:39 PM
Alex Ross about Nielsen in this week's The New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2008/02/25/080225crmu_music_ross
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 24, 2008, 02:23:52 AM
Thanks, uffeviking, for that invigorating link!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MDL on February 24, 2008, 05:07:43 AM
Ole Schmidt's symphony cycle with the London Symphony Orchestra is a bargain and includes a wrenchingly powerful performance of the Sixth. Also, look out for Herbert Blomstedt's Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra EMI twofer, which contains the concertos and a few overtures. It's a real blast of fresh air, and particularly refreshing if you've been overdoing it with Mahler, Schoenberg and R Strauss.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on February 24, 2008, 07:04:42 AM
Quote from: MDL on February 24, 2008, 05:07:43 AM
Ole Schmidt's symphony cycle with the London Symphony Orchestra is a bargain and includes a wrenchingly powerful performance of the Sixth. Also, look out for Herbert Blomstedt's Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra EMI twofer, which contains the concertos and a few overtures. It's a real blast of fresh air, and particularly refreshing if you've been overdoing it with Mahler, Schoenberg and R Strauss.
I believe Blomstedt's EMI cycle is about to be reissued on a 3-for-1 EMI Triple. Any comments on this: judging by the concertos/overtures disc I assume the playing isn't as fine as in his later Decca cycle, but Blomstedt's Nielsen is consistently good.

I never really connected with Schmidt's cycle, and traded it away. I seem to be the odd man out here.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 24, 2008, 07:40:12 AM
Quote from: edward on February 24, 2008, 07:04:42 AM
I never really connected with Schmidt's cycle, and traded it away. I seem to be the odd man out here.

Perhaps you are. I wonder whether it's connected with something that was discussed in another thread - that the first performance you hear of a work remains a yard-stick for the rest of your life. My first exposure to Nielsen's symphonies was through Schmidt's cycle, on LPs. And I still like his readings, for their fire and spontaneity.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MDL on February 24, 2008, 03:02:59 PM
Quote from: edward on February 24, 2008, 07:04:42 AM
I believe Blomstedt's EMI cycle is about to be reissued on a 3-for-1 EMI Triple. Any comments on this: judging by the concertos/overtures disc I assume the playing isn't as fine as in his later Decca cycle, but Blomstedt's Nielsen is consistently good.

I never really connected with Schmidt's cycle, and traded it away. I seem to be the odd man out here.

Blomstedt's SFSO Decca recordings of the symphonies were my introduction to Nielsen, and they'd probably be my desert island choice. But there's a gruff, unvarnished intensity to Schmidt's cycle that I respond to. As I said earlier, his Sixth is quite special.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on February 24, 2008, 03:48:18 PM
Finally, something I agree with Alex Ross about!

I like the Schmidt cycle, too. ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Hector on February 25, 2008, 06:41:09 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 25, 2007, 10:11:08 AM
I love everything about "The Inextinguishable."

As for this recording:

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/97/972139.jpg)

I just recieved and listened to my copy, and it is everything D Minor says it is: lovely music in sparkling performances. The program is an interesting mixture of early and late works, contrasting the heroic period of Nieslen's youth with his more introspective old age, though the earliest piece on the disk, Snefrid, which dates from 1893/94, is one of the most subdued. Very little of this work resembles the music of the great middle symphonies, but it deserves to be better known.

For those reasons, clearly, one of the discs of the year but it never got a look-in anywhere!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on May 17, 2008, 08:11:13 AM
(http://www.classicstoday.com/images/coverpics/11677_coverpic.jpg)

CARL NIELSEN
Symphony No. 1; Symphony No. 6 "Sinfonia semplice"
Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra

Michael Schonwandt

Naxos- 8.570737(CD)

(http://www.classicstoday.com/images/sp_art/p10s10.gif)



"Originally released on Dacapo, this was the final installment of Michael Schonwandt's excellent complete Nielsen cycle (reviewed by colleague David Hurwitz, type Q2744 in Search Reviews). The performances are outstanding for their vibrancy and warmth--qualities you would expect in No. 1, but are equally present in the somewhat more acerbic No. 6. True, there's more virtuoso orchestral playing (particularly in No. 6's finale) to be heard from the San Francisco Symphony under a more driven Herbert Blomstedt, but the Danish National Radio Symphony players provide an unforced naturalness that is quite ingratiating. The recording itself has similar qualities--the orchestra placed comfortably in a spacious acoustic with wide dynamic range. These are just the sorts of performances that debunk the notion, most recently voiced by the New York Times, that "Nielsen is a nice composer: a little north of good, considerably south of great". An important release, made even more attractive by the Naxos price." [5/13/2008]

--Victor Carr Jr
(http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11677)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on May 17, 2008, 08:17:22 AM
Very fine disc, as I've noted in another thread, and now Naxos have announced nr symphony 2/3 released on the next disc in the series.

Another two brand new releases of potential interest are:

(https://secure.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/8226065.jpg)

Chamber Music Vol. 2

The Violin Sonatas and works for Solo Violin

Sonata No. 1 for violin and piano, Op. 9 in A major (1895)
Sonata No. 2 for violin and piano, Op. 35 (1912)
Prelude, Theme and Variations, Op. 48 for solo violin (1923)
Preludio e Presto, op. 52 for solo violin (1928)

and

(https://secure.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/CDA67591-2.jpg)

Looks like a tough month for Nielsen-lovers!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: BachQ on May 26, 2008, 05:59:04 PM
Thanks, erato!

(http://www.classicstoday.com/images/coverpics/1915_coverpic.jpg)

CARL NIELSEN
Symphonies Nos. 4 "The Inextinguishable" & 5
Danish National Radio Symphony

Michael Schonwandt

Dacapo- 8224156(CD)
Reference Recording - This One; Bernstein/Sony (Symphony No. 5); Gibson/Chandos (Symphony No. 4)

(http://www.classicstoday.com/images/sp_art/p10s10.gif)

Carl Nielsen's last three symphonies operate on many levels, and perhaps this is why they have proven to be so elusive on disc. Many a great conductor has crashed on the Inextinguishable's treacherous rocks, missing the music's vital current and getting bogged in down in leaden tempos. Leonard Bernstein made the mistake of reading an unnecessary melancholy into Nielsen's soaring melodies, while Herbert von Karajan seems to have been the victim of a cruel hoax--someone replaced the title page of his score with the name "Bruckner". Truly successful performances have been few. Among these are Jean Martinon's galvanizing rendition with the Chicago Symphony and Paavo Berglund's with the Royal Danish Orchestra, both on RCA, and Alexander Gibson's dynamic, superbly recorded account on Chandos with the Scottish National Orchestra.

This new recording on Dacapo by Michael Schonwandt and the Danish National Radio Symphony now joins this exclusive club. Schonwandt's winning interpretation reflects a profound identification with Nielsen's idiom, and under his baton the music issues forth as naturally as breathing
In sum, these performances stand as the best modern recordings of these symphonies available, and
Dacapo's engineers capture them in a wonderfully realistic and natural acoustic.

[7/25/2000] --Victor Carr
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on May 26, 2008, 07:17:52 PM
Quote from: erato on May 17, 2008, 08:17:22 AM
Very fine disc, as I've noted in another thread, and now Naxos have announced nr symphony 2/3 released on the next disc in the series.
Yep, they're re-releasing the Da Capo series featuring the Danish Radio orchestra and Michael Schonwandt. Next month comes the volume you mention, so I'm assuming the third and final CD will be out in July.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 12tone. on May 27, 2008, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: Brian on May 26, 2008, 07:17:52 PM
Yep, they're re-releasing the Da Capo series featuring the Danish Radio orchestra and Michael Schonwandt. Next month comes the volume you mention, so I'm assuming the third and final CD will be out in July.  :)

So the Da Capo series cycle and and standard Naxos series cycle will be out? 
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on May 27, 2008, 05:00:26 PM
Quote from: 12tone. on May 27, 2008, 04:50:43 PM
So the Da Capo series cycle and and standard Naxos series cycle will be out? 
Naxos has a series with another orchestra and conductor (Arthur Fagen?) which will be out, and in addition the Michael Schonwandt cycle will be available on both Da Capo and Naxos (same performances).  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2008, 09:11:54 AM
Just a reminder:

Today, June 9, 2008, is Carl Nielsen's 143rd birthday. Celebrate by listening to something of his. I recently a acquired a very fine recording of the Wind Quintet perfromaned by the Philadelphia Wind Quintet, and this mroning i listend to Martinon wonderful performance of the Inextinguishable in my car on the way to work. I've also acquired the Blomstedt-SPO version of teh symphonies, and as good as they are, I'm looking forward to getting the complete Schonwandt set on Naxos.

Temperature in Philadelphia today is 98---or 34 C, and my living room, where the stero is, is not air conditoned. I doubt I'll be listening to much this evening.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 09, 2008, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2008, 09:11:54 AM
Today, June 9, 2008, is Carl Nielsen's 143rd birthday.

O frabjous day!

Quote from: Joe. . . my living room, where the stero is, is not air conditoned. I doubt I'll be listening to much this evening.

Oof: the unliveable living room . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on June 09, 2008, 09:23:57 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2008, 09:11:54 AM
Just a reminder:

Today, June 9, 2008, is Carl Nielsen's 143rd birthday.

AND that of Albéric Magnard, who sometimes, in passing, manages to sound like Nielsen without having ever heard a note of him...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: John Copeland on June 09, 2008, 09:35:22 AM
Quote from: Joe
. . . my living room, where the stero is, is not air conditoned. I doubt I'll be listening to much this evening.

Aye Joe, open the windows, turn on the fan, and turn up Nielsens Fourth and let it blast some.  You will feel much cooler. ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2008, 12:57:06 PM
Quote from: Dm on May 17, 2008, 08:11:13 AMThe recording itself has similar qualities--the orchestra placed comfortably in a spacious acoustic with wide dynamic range. These are just the sorts of performances that debunk the notion, most recently voiced by the New York Times, that "Nielsen is a nice composer: a little north of good, considerably south of great".

That quotation comes from the word processor of Bernard Holland. Couldn't you tell? He should have been able to recognize south of great, since he spent so much time there himself.  Just one in a long list of questionable judgments.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: John Copeland on June 09, 2008, 03:00:30 PM
I notice no-one has posted on Neeme Jarvi's set with the GSO. Like everyone else, I did a bit of comparing with Schmidt (my way, by ripping to wav and analysng the forms in a multi-track sequencer), listening to the differences between the two, what was what in each recording, where and why.  Yes, I agree that Ole Schmidts take on the Symphonies is quite raw and powerful in all the right places, but Jarvi has brought something more; the contrasts between woodwind and strings are more pronounced, the quality of recording is better (obviously), and there is a feeling of both power and distance in Jarvi's all encompassing take on the fourth in which one is literally swept along.  But then, Schmidts first is free of Orchestral tricks, does exactly what it says on the tin, is clear and direct and wins over Jarvi through sheer force - although the same cannot be said of the second...
Overall, I have three Nielsen sets, Schmidt, Jarvi and...er...oh hell, I forgot, I'll come back and edit...and my favourite for gutsy Nielsen expression with superb playing is the Jarvi set.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on June 10, 2008, 12:06:40 AM
I think the Nielsen Symphony cycle I have (Adrian Leaper) is the only one that is NEVER talked about. Am I the only one who has heard it or is it just so forgettable? I like the performances but I haven't heard others. I really like the J. F. Willumsen paintings in the cover of the Naxos cycle and I am disappointed to see Willumsen's art is not used in the Schonwandt cycle (Dacapo cycle has horrible cover art).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Henk on July 10, 2008, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: mahler10th on June 09, 2008, 03:00:30 PM
I notice no-one has posted on Neeme Jarvi's set with the GSO. Like everyone else, I did a bit of comparing with Schmidt (my way, by ripping to wav and analysng the forms in a multi-track sequencer), listening to the differences between the two, what was what in each recording, where and why.  Yes, I agree that Ole Schmidts take on the Symphonies is quite raw and powerful in all the right places, but Jarvi has brought something more; the contrasts between woodwind and strings are more pronounced, the quality of recording is better (obviously), and there is a feeling of both power and distance in Jarvi's all encompassing take on the fourth in which one is literally swept along.  But then, Schmidts first is free of Orchestral tricks, does exactly what it says on the tin, is clear and direct and wins over Jarvi through sheer force - although the same cannot be said of the second...
Overall, I have three Nielsen sets, Schmidt, Jarvi and...er...oh hell, I forgot, I'll come back and edit...and my favourite for gutsy Nielsen expression with superb playing is the Jarvi set.


After listening to S. 3 I want more Nielsen. This looks an interesting set (the Schmidt isn't available anymore). I also am curious about his piano music, but the recordings on Naxos are not on the market anymore..

Henk
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on July 10, 2008, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: Henk on July 10, 2008, 04:04:10 PM
After listening to S. 3 I want more Nielsen. This looks an interesting set (the Schmidt isn't available anymore). I also am curious about his piano music, but the recordings on Naxos are not on the market anymore..

Henk
The Naxos recordings of the piano music are very ordinary, to be honest--once you hear Andsnes (confession, I don't know how the various Danish recordings compare, though) I doubt you would want to go back to Sievewright's routine playing.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Henk on July 10, 2008, 04:28:42 PM
Quote from: edward on July 10, 2008, 04:19:27 PM
The Naxos recordings of the piano music are very ordinary, to be honest--once you hear Andsnes (confession, I don't know how the various Danish recordings compare, though) I doubt you would want to go back to Sievewright's routine playing.

Are you referring to a particular recording of Andsnes?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Dundonnell on July 10, 2008, 04:29:56 PM
I remember back in the early 1960s when Nielsen was hardly ever played in Britain reading Robert Simpson's book on the composer and then buying LPs of the 2nd and 5th Symphonies conducted by Thomas Jensen and the 4th by Launy Grondahl. There are those old Nielsen afficianados who will tell you that these early recordings have never been surpassed! I still have the LPs in my collection. There is an authenticity and sheer burning intensity which is quite remarkable!

I also recall as a schoolboy having long arguments with friends about which was the greater composer-Sibelius or Nielsen :)
Wouldn't get into that sort of argument today :)

Two of my favourite short Nielsen compositions are the marvellous Overture "Helios" and-an especial favourite-the Rhapsody Overture "An Imaginary Journey to the Faeroe Islands". Both are magical pieces!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on July 10, 2008, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Henk on July 10, 2008, 04:28:42 PM
Are you referring to a particular recording of Andsnes?
As far as I'm aware, he's only made one recording of Nielsen's piano music:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31p0RMemNaL._SS400_.jpg)

It's oop now, but has been released a few times (including on the new EMI big Nielsen box) so shouldn't be too hard to find.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 10, 2008, 11:50:32 PM
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 10, 2008, 04:29:56 PM
I remember back in the early 1960s when Nielsen was hardly ever played in Britain reading Robert Simpson's book on the composer and then buying LPs of the 2nd and 5th Symphonies conducted by Thomas Jensen and the 4th by Launy Grondahl. There are those old Nielsen afficianados who will tell you that these early recordings have never been surpassed! I still have the LPs in my collection. There is an authenticity and sheer burning intensity which is quite remarkable!

(http://www.emusic.com/img/album/110/311/11031182_155_155.jpeg)

I have just listened to Launy Grondahl's reading of Nielsen's 2nd - a great (live) performance, very authoritative. (download from eMusic)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2008, 01:51:19 AM
Quote from: edward on July 10, 2008, 04:19:27 PM
The Naxos recordings of the piano music are very ordinary,

Perhaps, but I like the sound on those discs. I remember when I bought volume one alongside with Buxtehude's Membra Jesu nostri at a Hifi-exhibition back in 1997.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Henk on July 11, 2008, 02:23:54 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2008, 01:51:19 AM
Perhaps, but I like the sound on those discs. I remember when I bought volume one alongside with Buxtehude's Membra Jesu nostri at a Hifi-exhibition back in 1997.  :)

I tought it was a 2008 recording, because I can't find it in the Naxos' catalogue.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2008, 03:03:31 AM
Quote from: Henk on July 11, 2008, 02:23:54 AM
I tought it was a 2008 recording, because I can't find it in the Naxos' catalogue.

Nielsen - Complete Piano Music Volume 1 - Naxos 8.553574 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.553574) - Released 1997
Nielsen - Complete Piano Music Volume 2 - Naxos 8.553653 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.553653) - Released 1998
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2008, 03:30:47 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 10, 2008, 12:06:40 AM
I think the Nielsen Symphony cycle I have (Adrian Leaper) is the only one that is NEVER talked about.

I cannot speak for anyone else who hasn't talked about it.

I haven't talked about it, because I haven't heard it.

Also, as I have three Nielsen cycles which I like very well, there's no great likelihood of my troubling to seek Leaper out.

There, Poju; that's as much talking about Leaper as I can with integrity justify  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2008, 03:37:56 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 10, 2008, 04:29:56 PM
I also recall as a schoolboy having long arguments with friends about which was the greater composer-Sibelius or Nielsen :)

That's the spirit!  :D

QuoteWouldn't get into that sort of argument today :)

Except that there is a good case to be made for the perception of Sibelius's greatness (there is actual greatness there, of course, but it's the old if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears, does it make a sound? parable) depending on international connections that he made during his career, and the consequent distribution of his work;  where Nielsen did not have occasion to "export" during his lifetime, perhaps.  The jbuck argument would go, "Obviously Sibelius is greater, because more people acknowledge his greatness, and time and the majority Can't Be Wrong" . . . though, as I say, this presupposes that the circumstances that Nielsen's music has not penetrated to a broader audience "mean" that he is a composer "inferior" to Sibelius.

QuoteTwo of my favourite short Nielsen compositions are the marvellous Overture "Helios" and-an especial favourite-the Rhapsody Overture "An Imaginary Journey to the Faeroe Islands". Both are magical pieces!

Agreed, and especially w/r/t Helios!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Christo on July 11, 2008, 03:43:34 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 10, 2008, 12:06:40 AM
Am I the only one who has heard it or is it just so forgettable?

No - not either. They used to be the first complete cycle in my collection too, and as far as I'm concerned, they're absolutely fine - no reason to avoid the Le[a]per, or jump over it!  8)

Their only handicap being: there are just so many superb cycles available, these days.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on July 11, 2008, 04:20:27 AM
Quote from: Christo on July 11, 2008, 03:43:34 AM
. . . there are just so many superb cycles available, these days.

Of course, that is all to the good!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2008, 05:35:26 AM
Quote from: Christo on July 11, 2008, 03:43:34 AM
Their only handicap being: there are just so many superb cycles available, these days.

Well, sure there are but my wallet is handicap too so the Leaper cycle may reign in my Nielsen collection.

There is just so many symphonies I haven't even heard... ... RVW's for instance.  ::)

Anyway, I am sure Nielsen >>>> RVW.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 11, 2008, 05:46:17 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 11, 2008, 03:30:47 AM
I cannot speak for anyone else who hasn't talked about it.

I haven't talked about it, because I haven't heard it.

Also, as I have three Nielsen cycles which I like very well, there's no great likelihood of my troubling to seek Leaper out.

There, Poju; that's as much talking about Leaper as I can with integrity justify  8)

I find your tone of voice patronizing. You don't need to discuss about a CD you don't have nor have heard.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Christo on July 11, 2008, 05:56:39 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 11, 2008, 05:35:26 AM
Anyway, I am sure Nielsen >>>> RVW.

I followed the path: RVW >>>> Nielsen  (>>>> Tubin a.s.o.) and found it quite a natural one, indeed.  :D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Dundonnell on July 11, 2008, 01:46:35 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 11, 2008, 03:37:56 AM
That's the spirit!  :D

Except that there is a good case to be made for the perception of Sibelius's greatness (there is actual greatness there, of course, but it's the old if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears, does it make a sound? parable) depending on international connections that he made during his career, and the consequent distribution of his work;  where Nielsen did not have occasion to "export" during his lifetime, perhaps.  The jbuck argument would go, "Obviously Sibelius is greater, because more people acknowledge his greatness, and time and the majority Can't Be Wrong" . . . though, as I say, this presupposes that the circumstances that Nielsen's music has not penetrated to a broader audience "mean" that he is a composer "inferior" to Sibelius.

Agreed, and especially w/r/t Helios!

I was a contrary teenager at the time-though probably not very typical :) If a particular composer was popular/revered I tended to set someone else up in opposition and sing that composer's praises instead. Thus Nielsen over Sibelius, Walton over Britten etc. I do, however, now firmly believe that both Sibelius and Nielsen were great composers of genius in their different ways and that their best music is imperishable.

Well, at least it was not the Beatles v The Rolling Stones as per my contemporaries :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Opus106 on April 15, 2009, 08:31:33 AM
Carl Nielsen: first discovery of 2009. Wow! Just finished listening to the symphony No. 5, and I love it! It was just a couple of weeks ago that I found and enjoyed listening to the Aladdin Suite. A fun piece it was. I didn't care to explore further, but I found a download of a recent performance of the symphony and curiosity got the better of me. I'm glad it did.

I did read a little bit about the work before listening, and to be honest, I didn't have hope of sitting through the entire performance. The first part of the first movement was a bit unsettling - and not to mention those snare drums which don't make an appearance in the works I usually listen to -  but nothing to force me listen to something else, instead. Then came the oh-so-lovely adagio. Beautiful. And  the frenzy in the opening and closing of the second movement was enough to seal the deal, so to speak.

Now to find more Nielsen's works.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Superhorn on April 16, 2009, 11:51:46 AM
  Nielsen was a true individualist; he never followed any"isms"; he always remained himself. He isn't a true late romantic, or a doctrinaire modernist,or neoclassical, or whatever.
  It's virtually impossible to pidgeonhole him.
  I also love Nielsen's first opera,"Saul and David", and have long treasured the wonderful Chandos recording with Neeme Jarvi and the Danish RSO, with the late Aage Haugland as king Saul. 
  This is a starkly powerful yet noble opera, and   Saul is a magnificent role for the bass voice. I'm sure that if many of this centurie's great basses had known this opera,they would have loved to sing it. It's comparable to the role of Boris Godunov.  Perhaps Rene Pape could do this role, and I think that Samuel Ramey,Kurt Moll ,George London, or James Morris might have loved to sing this opera.
  How about it,Met? 
   I got to know the Nielsen piano works on an old LP many years ago,I believe on Vox, by the wonderful Danish pianist Arne Skjold-Rasmussen, who knew Nielsen personally,and was an authoritative advocate of this music. If it appears on CD, grab this set.
  I also have the Chandos CD of the complete incidental music to Aladdin,with Rozhdestvensky and the Danish RSO. It contains much intriguing music not in the more familiar suite,plus chorus.
  The choral works Hymnis Amoris and Sleep are wonderful, as well as the charming folksy cantata "Springtime on Funen, which I have on a Chandos CD with Leif Segerstam and the Danish RSO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DFO on April 16, 2009, 01:51:25 PM
I've his string quartets, the string quintet, the wind quintet, the violin sonatas and solo pieces, and the first recordings of his concertos: Paul Birkelund (1958) on flute; Ib Eriksson (1954) on clarinet, and Emil Telmanyi (1947) on violin. All magnificent works IMO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: ChamberNut on April 16, 2009, 02:38:12 PM
Quote from: opus67 on April 15, 2009, 08:31:33 AM
Now to find more Nielsen's works.

Discovering Nielsen (String Quartets and symphonies) is on my list.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2009, 01:41:12 AM
Has Paavo Berglund's Bournemouth SO recording of Nielsen's 5th Symphony (EMI LP) ever been on CD?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Herman on May 27, 2009, 01:58:35 AM
Quote from: DFO on April 16, 2009, 01:51:25 PM
I've his string quartets, the string quintet, the wind quintet, the violin sonatas and solo pieces, and the first recordings of his concertos: Paul Birkelund (1958) on flute; Ib Eriksson (1954) on clarinet, and Emil Telmanyi (1947) on violin. All magnificent works IMO.

I've never warmed to Nielsen's chamber works. I love his symphonies 4 - 6, though.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 27, 2009, 04:31:15 AM
Quote from: Herman on May 27, 2009, 01:58:35 AM
I've never warmed to Nielsen's chamber works. I love his symphonies 4 - 6, though.

The wind quintet is very likeable, but I agree that it is missing the verve and arc of the symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on May 27, 2009, 07:51:07 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 27, 2009, 04:31:15 AM
The wind quintet is very likeable, but I agree that it is missing the verve and arc of the symphonies.

But the piano music is great, particularly the Suite and the Chaconne, which do have the arc and verve of the symphonies without trying to imitate an orchestra.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 27, 2009, 08:11:40 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on May 27, 2009, 07:51:07 AM
But the piano music is great, particularly the Suite and the Chaconne, which do have the arc and verve of teh symphonies withouth trying to imitate an orchestra.

I do like the piano solo music, too!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 04:32:44 AM
The Helios Overture . . . it's like a much-abbreviated impression of the Vaughan Willams Fifth.  (Only speaking musical language, here.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Dundonnell on May 30, 2009, 05:00:31 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 04:32:44 AM
The Helios Overture . . . it's like a much-abbreviated impression of the Vaughan Willams Fifth.  (Only speaking musical language, here.)

Would you care to expand on that comparison please, Karl?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 05:03:04 AM
Well, it just occurred to me out the blue this morning, Colin.  There's a warmth, and an unhurried character, an impression of being in joyous harmony with nature, which is a broad similarity between the Nielsen overture and the first movement of the RVW.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Dundonnell on May 30, 2009, 05:05:14 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 05:03:04 AM
Well, it just occurred to me out the blue this morning, Colin.  There's a warmth, and an unhurried character, an impression of being in joyous harmony with nature, which is a broad similarity between the Nielsen overture and the first movement of the RVW.

Both composers were geniuses of course :) Langgaard is not in the same league as Carl ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 05:08:06 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 30, 2009, 05:05:14 AM
Both composers were geniuses of course :)

Yes, but I was considering simply overall musical character.  Their both being geniuses, is an added bonus.

Quote from: ColinLanggaard is not in the same league as Carl ;D

Oh, in the mood for a food fight, are ye?  ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Dundonnell on May 30, 2009, 05:10:19 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 05:08:06 AM
Yes, but I was considering simply overall musical character.  Their both being geniuses, is an added bonus.

Oh, in the mood for a food fight, are ye?  ;)

I will be safe unless Johan(Jezetha) sees this ;D Although he is recruiting more acolytes from this site :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 01:49:11 PM
Oh, and I need to sit down with the two operas again sometime . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 03:34:00 PM
Quote from: Dm on April 12, 2007, 10:16:41 AM
Nielsen's Boyhood Home

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Denmark-Carl_Nielsen%27s_Childhood_Home.JPG/800px-Denmark-Carl_Nielsen%27s_Childhood_Home.JPG)

Tidier than the Shakespeare house in Stratford  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Satzaroo on May 30, 2009, 04:13:24 PM
When I was a teenager almost fifty years ago, I was fascinated by Nielsen's Violin Concerto. It was on a budget label, I had a so-so stereo console, and I had never heard of the violinist or the orchestra; nonetheless, I delighted in the upbeat melodies in the first and third movements and was entranced by the romantic cadences of the second movement. As an adult, I have not listened to that concerto--in any rendition. I wonder if it would still have the same appeal, or would I have outgrown it?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on May 30, 2009, 04:44:26 PM
Quote from: Satzaroo on May 30, 2009, 04:13:24 PM
When I was a teenager almost fifty years ago, I was fascinated by Nielsen's Violin Concerto. It was on a budget label, I had a so-so stereo console, and I had never heard of the violinist or the orchestra; nonetheless, I delighted in the upbeat melodies in the first and third movements and was entranced by the romantic cadences of the second movement. As an adult, I have not listened to that concerto--in any rendition. I wonder if it would still have the same appeal, or would I have outgrown it?

None but yourself can tell! FWIW, I like it very well, and find its tunefulness engaging.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on May 31, 2009, 02:45:38 PM
I'm glad to see the Schonwandt 4 & 5 disc is coming out on Naxos now... time for me to complete the set.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on May 31, 2009, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: Satzaroo on May 30, 2009, 04:13:24 PM
When I was a teenager almost fifty years ago, I was fascinated by Nielsen's Violin Concerto. It was on a budget label, I had a so-so stereo console, and I had never heard of the violinist or the orchestra; nonetheless, I delighted in the upbeat melodies in the first and third movements and was entranced by the romantic cadences of the second movement. As an adult, I have not listened to that concerto--in any rendition. I wonder if it would still have the same appeal, or would I have outgrown it?

It think you'll still find it entrancing.  I wonder if the violinist you heard was Tibor Varga. 

(http://www.classical-records.de/pix/classical/shop/s3929.jpg)

My favorite recording is still Arve Tellefsen with Blomstedt on EMI.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Satzaroo on May 31, 2009, 08:59:06 PM
Daverz, you're right on target--I recognize the "Turnabout" cover. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 01, 2009, 03:29:35 AM
Quote from: Daverz on May 31, 2009, 04:33:05 PM
My favorite recording [of the Vn Cto] is still Arve Tellefsen with Blomstedt on EMI.

That is very good, indeed.  I do enjoy the Naxos recording, too . . . Jno. Carney, IIRC
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Christo on June 02, 2009, 01:41:21 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2009, 03:34:00 PM
Tidier than the Shakespeare house in Stratford  ;D

But not unlike the birth house and boyhood home of his contemporary, Estonian composer Rudolf Tobias (1873-1918) on the Baltic island of Hiiumaa (Dagö):

                        (http://www.muuseum.hiiumaa.ee/tobias2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2009, 03:36:45 AM
I really like the Helios Overture - played it this morning (Erik Tuxen, Royal Danish SO) - really fine historic performance. Any other favourite performances of this work?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 02, 2009, 03:44:43 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 02, 2009, 03:36:45 AM
I really like the Helios Overture - played it this morning (Erik Tuxen, Royal Danish SO) - really fine historic performance. Any other favourite performances of this work?

There's a nice account on the "concertos-plus" two-fer that Daverz mentions:

Quote from: Daverz on May 31, 2009, 04:33:05 PM
My favorite recording is still Arve Tellefsen with Blomstedt on EMI.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2009, 05:38:54 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 02, 2009, 03:44:43 AM
There's a nice account on the "concertos-plus" two-fer that Daverz mentions:


Thanks Karl
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 02, 2009, 07:35:22 AM
Of the short orchestral pieces, no one has mentioned the Saga Drom yet. A beautiful, haunting work, with an unforgettable section for winds near the center. I also quite like the recurring five-note motif in the bass.

I was in Gettysburg over the weekend, and on the drive home I ilstened to my tape of the fourth and fifth symphonies: twice. bernstein in the fourth, Horenstein in the fifth. Tape also includes the Saga Drom (Horenstein) and At the Bier of a Young Artist (Blomstedt). Great comp[any on the long drive down Pa. Route 30.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2009, 07:49:22 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 02, 2009, 07:35:22 AM
Of the short orchestral pieces, no one has mentioned the Saga Drom yet. A beautiful, haunting work, with an unforgettable section for winds near the center. I also quite like the recurring five-note motif in the bass.

I was in Gettysburg over the weekend, and on the drive home I ilstened to my tape of the fourth and fifth symphonies: twice. bernstein in the fourth, Horenstein in the fifth. Tape also includes the Saga Drom (Horenstein) and At the Bier of a Young Artist (Blomstedt). Great comp[any on the long drive down Pa. Route 30.

Oh yes, Saga Drom is a wonderfully atmospheric piece. I also like the atmospheric 'Imaginary Journey to the Faroes Islands' - especially the opening section.  I have the old Unicorn CD (and LP) with Horenstein conducting Symphony No 5 and Saga Drom.  They are fine performances.  I especially like the performance of the symphony as it features the most manic and closely miked side-drummer in the free cadenza section.  I also like Raphael Kubelik's EMI recording of this haunting Symphony (surely another candidate for 'the greatest 20th century symphony' thread).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 02, 2009, 08:10:50 AM
Odd --- I never cared for Kubelik's version. The Fifth is a hard symphony to get right, I think. My favorites I guess are Horentstein's, Bernstein'sand Schmidt's. I also have the complete symphonies with Blomstedt and the SFS, and that's a very strong set, too.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2009, 08:51:24 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 02, 2009, 08:10:50 AM
Odd --- I never cared for Kubelik's version. The Fifth is a hard symphony to get right, I think. My favorites I guess are Horentstein's, Bernstein'sand Schmidt's. I also have the complete symphonies with Blomstedt and the SFS, and that's a very strong set, too.

Those are all good versions as, I think, is this one. It did not get good reviews but was, paradoxically, the No 1 choice (for Symphony No 5) of The Good CD Guide Top 1000 CDS:

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 02, 2009, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 02, 2009, 08:51:24 AM
Those are all good versions as, I think, is this one. It did not get good reviews but was, paradoxically, the No 1 choice (for Symphony No 5) of The Good CD Guide Top 1000 CDS:



Interesting, I heard Rozhdestvensky conduct these very 2 symphonies in a Nielsen mini-festival here in Moscow a couple years ago. He really emphasized the quirky and odd elements in them.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 08:04:57 AM
Happy birthday, Carl! Today, June 9, 2009, is Mr. Nielsen's 144th birthday. Princeton radio commemorated the occasion with a broadcast of the great Wind Quintet, which was interrputed during the variations by a severe thunder storm warning.

I don't think I ever told you guys this, but when I was in college, majoring in creative writing, I wrote a one-act play about Carl Nielsen. Like everything else I did for school, I have destroyed it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on June 09, 2009, 08:10:18 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 08:04:57 AM
I don't think I ever told your guys this, but when I was in college, majoring in creative writing, I wrote a one-act play about Carl Nielsen. Like everything else I did for school, I have destroyed it.

:o  Wow, what made you decide on Nielsen as a subject, and what was the gist of the play?

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 09, 2009, 08:17:53 AM
Fabulous juvenilia!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 08:22:47 AM
Quote from: bhodges on June 09, 2009, 08:10:18 AM
:o  Wow, what made you decide on Nielsen as a subject, and what was the gist of the play?

--Bruce

It was a one act that took place just as Carl was completing his Clarinet Concerto in the late 1920s. It dealt primarily with his disillusionment over his career. I don't know what inspired it: we were sitting in class talking about subjects, and I suddenly got the image of Nielsen destroying a bust of himself with his cane. The bust was in progress, still soft, and was intended as a gift from his wife, Anne, a sculptress. It was kind of a hokey script, and rereadng it years later, I was amazed I got an A for it. Probably the best thing to come out of the class was that I introduced my prof to Nielsen's music.

There wasn't much information available on Nielsen's family back in the 1970s. I made his daughter, Irmelin, a homebody who bakes in her spare time. Turns out she was a well-known choreographer, quite prominent in Denmark, every bit as arty as the her parents.

The creative life is the hardest thing to depict onstage, I think. How does one portray the labors of a writer or painter or composer in a way that's dramatically interesting? Tom Stoppard did a great job in "Shakespeare in Love," but then his protagonist produced Romeo and Juliet, an objet trouve.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 09, 2009, 08:42:48 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 08:22:47 AM
There wasn't much information available on Nielsen's family back in the 1970s. I made his daughter, Irmelin, a homebody who bakes in her spare time. Turns out she was a well-known choreographer, quite prominent in Denmark, every bit as arty as the her parents.

I trust you meant you met his daughter? . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 09:00:06 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 09, 2009, 08:42:48 AM
I trust you meant you met his daughter? . . .

No, I made her, that is, wrote her as a character. I never met her. Years after writing the play, I read about her in Jack Lawson's pictoral biography, the one published by Phaedon, and the only complete bio in English. I also learned that Nielsen and his wife were separated in the early 1920s. Carl had several affairs and fathered five or six illegitimate children during the marriage.

Irmelin died in 1974, just about the time i was discovering her father's music. Nielsen's other daughter, Anne marie, nicknamed Sos (or sister), lived until 1983, age 90. I was in Copenhagen in 1978, and had I known at the time she was still living, I would have tried to look her up.

Anne, Carl's wife, died in February 1945, just before the end of the Nazi occupation.

I often wonder if Victor Borge's family knew the Nielsens.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on June 09, 2009, 09:17:07 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 08:22:47 AM
The creative life is the hardest thing to depict onstage, I think. How does one depict  the labors of a writer or painter or composer in a way that's dramatically interesting? Tom Stoppard did a great job in "Shakespeare in Love," but then his protagonist produced Romeo and Juliet, an objet trouve.

Very interesting, Joe.  I am impressed that you would even tackle such subject matter!  As you say, it's difficult.

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Superhorn on June 09, 2009, 12:55:01 PM
  I recently learned that Nielsen had a few illegitimate children from affairs he had with other women. For shame,Carl ! 
  As well as his two daughters, Nielsen also had a son who  unfortunately suffered from permanent physical diabilities.
  I don't know if the Chandos recording with Rozhdestvensky and the Danish RSO of the complete incidental music to the play Aladdin is still available, but I have it and you should seek it out. It features a chorus,
and at one point, the male singers have to sing through megaphones.
  Most intriguing. Most people know only the suites of music from the play.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 01:01:47 PM
Quote from: Superhorn on June 09, 2009, 12:55:01 PM
   As well as his two daughters, Nielsen also had a son who  unfortunately suffered from permanent physical diabilities.

Nielsen's son, Hans Borge, was mentally retarded. The composer also had a brother who settled in Chicago. Today there are many Nielsens in the Chicago phone directory.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 09, 2009, 04:14:20 PM
Oh, but they cannot all be his descendants . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2009, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 09, 2009, 04:14:20 PM
Oh, but they cannot all be his descendants . . . .
I don't know: if the brother was as horny as Carl apparently was ...


From Bill Mauldin:

"This is th' town my pappy told me about."
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 12, 2009, 05:39:14 AM
Any Nielsen scores under Jansen in p.d.?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 12, 2009, 10:50:53 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 12, 2009, 05:39:14 AM
Any Nielsen scores under Jansen in p.d.?

What do you mean by "under jansen"? When I was working in publishing, the rule was that anything published in its final form before 1920 is public domain.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on July 06, 2009, 05:43:42 AM
Although I have not actually listened to it for a couple of months, I find myself humming bits of the Violin Concerto all the time.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on July 06, 2009, 07:17:10 AM
In troth, 'tis a good thing to hum.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on August 09, 2009, 03:02:11 AM
(From the Listening thread)

Nielsen, Symphony No. 1 (Jensen, historic)

Excellent performance (LP) from 1952, lovingly restored and uploaded by fellow member Otterhouse. Be quick to download it here:


http://docent.cmd.hro.nl/otter/
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on August 11, 2009, 06:23:07 AM
Isn't the Rhapsody Overture simply wonderful? :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on August 11, 2009, 07:15:03 AM
Had an unexpected treat this morning while driving to work. WPRB, the Princeton Radio station, broadcast the wonderful Wind Quintet. I'm going to have a long day at the office today, and this work really put me in a good frame of mind.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Tomo on August 11, 2009, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Joe Barron on August 11, 2009, 07:15:03 AM
Had an unexpected treat this morning while driving to work. WPRB, the Princeton Radio station, broadcast the wonderful Wind Quintet. I'm going to have a long day at the office today, and this work really put me in a good frame of mind.


Hope it all worked out as hoped for at the office today, Joe.  Taking your experience as a guiding light and given that becoming somewhat up to speed on Nielsen is my current drive, I will, as soon as I'm done listening to his symphony, listen to the Wind Quintet and his concertos for Flute and Clarinet.  So far, my favorites are his Nos. 4 and 5 and the second movement of his sixth.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on August 11, 2009, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: Tomo on August 11, 2009, 02:14:22 PM
the second movement of his sixth.

That's a crazy piece. It sounds almost like a parody of Varese.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Guido on September 27, 2009, 05:49:10 AM
What does the title Proposta Seria of the third movement of the 6th symphony mean? I think the 6th is turning out to be my favourite.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on September 27, 2009, 06:33:39 AM
Serious Proposition.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Guido on September 27, 2009, 06:49:22 AM
Cheers!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on November 17, 2009, 12:56:12 AM
New disc of unknown works. Anybody know anything about the discs or the works?

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/8226079.jpg)

Here's from the blurb:

Cantatas

Chorus of the Danish National Opera
Aarhus Cathedral Choir, Vox Aros
Jens Albinus
Ditte Højgaard Andersen
Mathias Hedegaard
Palle Knudsen

Aarhus Symphony Orchestra / Bo Holten, Thomas Søndergård

There are still unknown, exciting sides to Denmark's world-famous composer, Carl Nielsen (1865-1931). On this CD you can hear the premiere recordings of two of his cantatas for choir, soloists and orchestra. The cantatas were written in 1908-09, when Carl Nielsen was in one of his most productive phases. They have been performed several times since, but it is only in connection with the new collected edition of Nielsen's works that they have appeared in print.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 17, 2009, 01:51:47 AM
Quote from: Guido on September 27, 2009, 05:49:10 AM
What does the title Proposta Seria of the third movement of the 6th symphony mean? I think the 6th is turning out to be my favourite.


Serious Proposition.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on November 17, 2009, 01:55:44 AM
Quote from: Jezetha on November 17, 2009, 01:51:47 AM

Serious Proposition.
Quote from: erato on September 27, 2009, 06:33:39 AM
Serious Proposition.
Nice to see we agree!   ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on November 17, 2009, 04:25:38 AM
Quote from: erato on November 17, 2009, 01:55:44 AM
Nice to see we agree!   ;D


Oops! Overlooked that...  :o


;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moldyoldie on February 04, 2010, 02:18:15 PM
[Pasted from WAYLT]

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5191EZN93SL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Nielsen: Symphony No. 4 "The Inextinguishable"
Scriabin: Poem of Ecstasy
Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra
Zubin Mehta, cond.
DECCA ELOQUENCE

I've read professional reviews of this performance of Carl Nielsen's "Inextinguishable" from the '70s with scornful one-word descriptions such as "superficial" and "extrovert".  The reviewer in the Third Ear Guide proclaims "the floor has been littered with recording failures" before summarily dismissing Mehta as if it illustrates his point.  The Penguin Guide states Mehta "fails to penetrate the music's fullest depths and disclose all its subtleties."  Robert Layton in The Gramophone calls it a "well-played, well-recorded but superficial account."    Upon first hearing, I, too, was somewhat taken aback by Mehta's headlong and seemingly impetuous tempos, especially in the poco allegretto second movement, which here sounds as if it's played more a tempo with the rocket-propelled allegro opening of the symphony, merely softer (I'm perhaps exaggerating to make a point). However, coming to this with fresh ears, purposely freed of notions of what this great symphony represents and how it should be rendered, makes for a truly exhilarating listening experience!  Mehta never slams on the brakes as is often heard, but skillfully adjusts dynamics while subtly bringing tempos to bear.

Is it "superficial" to dauntlessly render Nielsen's  wonderful and powerful wartime rhetoric as a single headlong unified statement?  In this case, I certainly think not.

Hearing this performance, I was instantly reminded of the captain in The Sand Pebbles played by Richard Crenna, who in his frustration in being militarily shackled by the dictates of his superiors while sensing the simmering and ominous threat of his increasingly restless crew, feigns wireless failure with HQ and proclaims: "We will make one last savage thrust deep into China -- and if the San Pablo dies, she dies clean."   The San Pablo, of course, doesn't die and neither does Mehta's Nielsen Fourth. Instead, it resounds with an inexorable life force that's nothing if not "inextinguishable".  Invoking another allusion, instead of Marlow (or Capt. Willard, if you prefer) piercing deep into Conrad's heart of darkness, this performance is a brazen repudiation of its very existence!

Appended is a late '60s performance of Alexander Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy, a work from the first decade of the 20th century that bears many marks of Debussy, but shimmers with its own eroto-exotic passions and musical language.  It's become a personal favorite -- its persistent trumpet wailing forth above the shimmering orchestral fray as affectingly, but certainly more consistently and resoundingly, as that wonderful trombone in Sibelius' Seventh Symphony, a similarly uninterrupted, but more varied statement of similar length.  This is a beautifully played and recorded performance, perhaps even more vividly recorded than that of the later Nielsen recording.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: drogulus on February 07, 2010, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 11, 2008, 03:37:56 AM

Except that there is a good case to be made for the perception of Sibelius's greatness (there is actual greatness there, of course, but it's the old if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears, does it make a sound? parable) depending on international connections that he made during his career, and the consequent distribution of his work;  where Nielsen did not have occasion to "export" during his lifetime, perhaps.  The jbuck argument would go, "Obviously Sibelius is greater, because more people acknowledge his greatness, and time and the majority Can't Be Wrong" . . . though, as I say, this presupposes that the circumstances that Nielsen's music has not penetrated to a broader audience "mean" that he is a composer "inferior" to Sibelius.



     I have no problem deriving actual greatness* from perceived greatness when you add 2 features to the mix:

     1) Popularity within affinity groups (popsters don't bother adjudicating greatness outside their area of interest). Worrying about the influence of the uncommitted is not necessary. They don't care so you don't care. And if you don't care about jazz, jazzers won't pay much attention to what you think, if they should ever come to discover what that is.

     2) Greatness = Popularity over time, so it never gets decided, a race that's never over. Another way to look at it is Greatness = Metapopularity. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)

     The alternative, greatness no one gets to decide, is the hard one for me. How exactly do you decide something that in principle is beyond decision? One can submit a dispute to arbitration according to fixed criteria of merit, but the choice of criteria can't itself be fixed. History says there's always another way of being great. You might even go so far as to conclude that this is the point of modernism in the arts, that no objective criterion ever has the last word. It certainly would be consistent with my often-stated view that art consists in the effect it produces for a receptive consciousness and not a collection of objects. It ought to be hard, therefore, to decide both what greatness is and who has it in a convincing way, and I note that it is. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/grin.gif)

      Right now I'm preparing the Schmidt symphony cycle to take to work tonight.

     * I didn't put it quotes! (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/shocked.gif) What's wrong with me?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on February 07, 2010, 04:04:19 PM
Good addenda, Ernie.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moldyoldie on February 10, 2010, 09:43:12 AM
A reassessment (pasted from WAYLT)...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Z257TZWJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Nielsen: Symphony No. 4 "Inextinguishable"
Sibelius: Tapiola
Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra
Herbert von Karajan, cond.
DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON

Frankly, I find Karajan's Nielsen No. 4 with the BPO from the early '80s to be a bit underwhelming, but hardly worthy of out-and-out dismissal. After a comparatively tepid burst out of the starting gate, the first movement grinds to near stasis before lumbering along for a protracted thirteen minutes, albeit with some sparkling soft magic, to its quiet segue into equally drawn-out second and third movements.  The poco allegretto second features some fine, stately chamber-like interplay among the winds while the nearly twelve minute poco adagio third movement puts the famous Berlin strings on full display.  The ensemble playing certainly sounds nice here, but it's an ameliorating consideration when this great symphony's dramatic cogency is so undermined by such polite and tidy pacing. While listening, I found myself admiring the orchestra more than being swept along by the drama.  The all-important tympani battles in the finale are also noticeably "civilized" and more recessed in the scheme; they're thus heard as semi-distant fusillades instead of rapid stereo punches to the solar plexus -- I suppose this may actually appeal to some listeners.

Despite misgivings as to Karajan's seemingly tame approach to what should be nothing less than a depiction of the triumph of Man's capacity for creative good over those forces which would usurp it, I do find the overall performance to lend an affecting reverence to the music not heard in many others -- once again, an ameliorating consideration.  In comparison, I find Simon Rattle's similarly deliberate approach to the Nielsen Fourth to be much more successful and satisfying. (Review to follow)

What's somewhat disconcerting is the early '80s digital recording which is noticeably steely and bass shy, but the recording scheme is consistent with Deutsche Grammophon's general approach with these forces; i.e., strings and winds are in the forefront.  More often than not, I've been able to adjust and appreciate it.  In matters of interpretation, however, and as a requisite imploration to novice listeners, introduce yourself to this great symphony through any of the many other fine recordings before hearing Karajan's.

Appended to the Nielsen is Karajan's very expansive last recording of Sibelius' late tone poem Tapiola from '84.  Though I'm a big fan of the composer, this is not my favorite Sibelius.  Still, Karajan and the BPO manage to wring every last ounce of brooding emotion from the score in a performance seemingly driven more by mythic ambience than epic drama.  It's funny in that some days I really take to it, while other days....
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: drogulus on February 11, 2010, 01:28:43 PM


      Does the driver Rattle? (badabump!) (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)

      The 1st Symphony is reminiscent of Brahms, though a comparison with Dvorak might also be made.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moldyoldie on February 11, 2010, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Soapy Molloy on February 11, 2010, 12:54:42 PM
On the subject of Inextinguishables that turn out better than you might expect, there's also this one:

(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/826/16783556.jpg)

From my Karajan bit:
Quote from: MoldyoldieIn comparison, I find Simon Rattle's similarly deliberate approach to the Nielsen Fourth to be much more successful and satisfying. (Review to follow)
;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: drogulus on February 12, 2010, 10:58:03 AM
Quote from: Soapy Molloy on February 12, 2010, 03:42:56 AM
Sorry.  Short attention span.  :-[
Actually, it does.  ;D  Though it was the Shostakovich #4 shoot-out over Christmas that did something to the suspension, the CBSO tympani delivered the coup de grâce.

       Don't play Rattle's recording of Sinfonia da Requiem or it will stop rattling for good. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/Smileys/classic/cheesy.gif)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moldyoldie on March 17, 2010, 09:09:07 AM
[Pasted from WAYLT]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31K4JQR318L._SL500_AA180_.jpg)
Sibelius: Symphony No. 5*
Nielsen: Pan and Syrinx; Symphony No. 4 "The Inextinguishable"
Philharmonia Orchestra*
City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra
Simon Rattle, cond.
EMI

The young Simon Rattle of pre-knighthood was seemingly the cat's meow among British music critics throughout the '80s, a sensitive and often dynamic conductor whose recordings endeavored toward new benchmarks in much of the basic early modern repertoire.  Here from 1982 (the CD is a re-release from 1993) is Rattle's initial foray into recording Sibelius, the popular Symphony No. 5, and it became the most talked about recording of the work since Karajan's in the '60s.  Here ends the requisite dispensable history lesson.

Rattle and the Philharmonia deliver a well-prepared and wonderfully understated interpretation that forces one to re-think this popular symphony in terms which are mostly extra-musical; i.e., cerebrally, as if inside the head of a dual-faced Janus consisting of the young conductor and the dourly disposed composer himself, only looking at each other instead of oppositely!  Unlike Esa-Pekka Salonen's outright depressing recording with the same orchestra from a few years later, Rattle brings his own youthful intellect and optimism to bear on this fine music while effectively harnessing its more overtly dynamic attributes -- it's this latter consideration which may dissuade the novice listener and rebuff the seasoned one. A few listens, however, have brought me around.  I've become particularly taken by the wonderful play (and interplay) of the woodwinds heard throughout, as well as the purposely blatty brass which evoke the large fowl flying overhead in the Sibelian realm.  The big build in the coda to the first movement, one of the most thrilling moments in the entire repertoire for this listener, is rendered in a controlled manner and culminates not with a bang, not with a whimper, but merely as the end of the first part of a lengthier musical journey.  The pianissimo strings in the finale are on the very threshold of audibility (even through headphones!), in itself an ear-catching technical feat, but it still remains temporally and emotionally consistent with this well-played, well-articulated, and sensitive performance.  In my opinion, Bernstein and Karajan are the most effective in pulling out all the stops in all the right places in Sibelius No. 5 -- Rattle/Philharmonia is the antithesis, one I can now readily advocate as a fine alternative. I've read where Rattle's subsequent Sibelius No. 5 recording, part of his complete cycle with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, is appreciably different -- I've yet to hear it.

The Nielsen recordings here date from '85 during Rattle's prodigious stint with the Birmingham orchestra. Pan and Syrinx is a brief buffer between the main attractions --it's both evocative and powerful, especially the brooding cello and marvelous brass crescendo in the middle. In my limited experience with it, this is the most effective and entertaining performance I've heard. 

Rattle's rendition of the Symphony No. 4 "Inextinguishable" invites a special scrutiny among those who love this work.  I've read one critic describe the performance as "fussy", I suppose in reference to Rattle's tendency to deliberately fawn over certain details in sacrifice of momentum. As evidenced here, however, there's certainly much to love and fawn over.  It's true that Rattle takes the middle two movements of this seamless symphony at a pace that elicits a great deal of both loving detail and charm.  Where charm exists and flourishes, however, there's always a most effective countervailing aggression that follows -- this performance never wallows in sweetness and light.  The culminating, all-consuming tympani battle in the final movement is brought to bear with resolute meaning and results in an equally powerful victory, putatively of Man's capacity for creative good over those forces which would usurp it.  To my ears, Rattle's judgments and the orchestra's responses are much more effective than the likes of Karajan and Barbirolli in their likewise expansive and deliberative readings. Instead of "rattling" on, I'll conclude by saying that this lucid performance, as manifested by the young conductor's understanding of Nielsen's multi-fold wartime expression, is worth the "fuss"!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:02:39 AM
Today, June 9, is the 145th birthday of the great Dane. I won't have time to listen to anything on the day itself, but last weekend I did spin  the Second and Sixth Symphonies in the fine performances by Blomstedt and the SFS. (I have two complete cycles, by Blomstedt and Schmidt, plus several singles.) Coming back to the Sixth after several years, I have to say I was much more impressed with it than I remember ever having been, or perhaps it was the reading that impressed me so much. It's an underrated work, I think, or would be, if I had ever heard anyone rate it. There are some beautiful moments, such as the end of the third movement, and some astounding ones, such as the pixilated waltz in the Variations. If there's any relation between biography and creativity --- and it's a questionable premise --- something disturbing must have been going on in Nielsen's life at the time he wrote this piece.

So, happy Nielsen day.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 09, 2010, 07:07:43 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:02:39 AM
Today, June 9, is the 145th birthday of the great Dane.

I must have felt something in the air . . . I listened to Pan og Syrinx and the Flute Concerto yesterday. And I'll listen to some more today!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2010, 07:14:56 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:02:39 AM
So, happy Nielsen day.

Thanks for reminding us. I think I'll spin the Sixth too...I love it. Blomstedt's my favorite. I also have Berglund, Kuchar, Ormandy, Salonen, Schonwandt and Rozhdestvensky. Rozh is the new kid on the block and I haven't heard his Sixth yet. Perfect opportunity then.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:48:45 AM
Anybody like the chamber music? I should go back and listen again to the pieces for solo violin and the violin sonatas. And the Suite Op. 49 is extraordinary. Too bad John Odgen's great recording was never released on CD. I have the two-volume set of piano music on Naxos, which is perfectly serviceable, but still ...

The there are the songs: Danish is such a beautiful language when sung. like German, but without all the hard consonants. 
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2010, 07:55:31 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:48:45 AM
Anybody like the chamber music?

I love the Wind Quintet. That's the only chamber work of his I own. Can you recommend recordings of other chamber pieces?

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 09, 2010, 07:58:07 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:02:39 AM
If there's any relation between biography and creativity --- and it's a questionable premise --- something disturbing must have been going on in Nielsen's life at the time he wrote this piece.

From what I've been told, the climax in the first mvt. of the 6th supposedly depicts his recent heart attack. His declining health was a factor when he wrote this symphony.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on June 09, 2010, 08:37:12 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:48:45 AM
Anybody like the chamber music? I should go back and listen again to the pieces for solo violin and the violin sonatas. And the Suite Op. 49 is extraordinary. Too bad John Odgen's great recording was never released on CD. I have the two-volume set of piano music on Naxos, which is perfectly serviceable, but still ...
Andsnes has at least done most of the stronger works. An absolute must IMO.

I'd love to get some good recordings of the alternative works.

As for the wind quintet, it's in historic sound but my favourite remains the dedicatees on Clarinet Classics:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/2142KNS9A1L._SL160_AA115_.jpg)

(Pretty good couplings, too: the Clarinet Concerto with Cahuzac and members of the Copenhagen Wind Quintet in Serenata in Vano. Sort of a clarinetist's wet dream, probably.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scarpia on June 09, 2010, 08:45:13 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2010, 07:55:31 AM
I love the Wind Quintet. That's the only chamber work of his I own. Can you recommend recordings of other chamber pieces?

I have this set, but don't remember anything about the music.

(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/03/32445.JPG)

I do recall listening to the same ensemble's Kodaly recordings, which were well done.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 09:19:37 AM
My recording the Philadelphia Wind Quintet's recording of the Nielsen Woodwind Quintet, and it doesn't get any better than that. Probably his greatest chamber work. The CD also includes Barber's Summer Music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 09:22:35 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 07:48:45 AMAnd the Suite Op. 49 is extraordinary.

Oops, that should be Op. 45. My apologies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 09, 2010, 03:06:33 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 09, 2010, 07:07:43 AM
I must have felt something in the air . . . I listened to Pan og Syrinx and the Flute Concerto yesterday. And I'll listen to some more today!

I did, you know: the Sixth Symphony. How I love Nielsen's music!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 09, 2010, 03:40:54 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 09, 2010, 03:06:33 PM
How I love Nielsen's music![/font]

Yet he never got  the following Sibelius did. I remember that wretched old Bernard Holland once described him as "north of good, south of great." But then, old Bernard always seemed content to base his judgments on his perceptions of focus groups. If something wasn't a staple of the mainstream concert calendar, he couldn't believe it was any good. his philosophy was, "There must be a reason it isn't played very often."  It was a nice, safe tack to take,  since it never required him to put his  own perceptions on the line. I never got the feeling he was listening very closely. Ives would have called him a Rollo.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Saul on June 10, 2010, 04:39:30 AM
Nielsen's fifth is one of the best symphonies ever written.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 10, 2010, 08:29:49 AM
Quote from: Saul on June 10, 2010, 04:39:30 AM
Nielsen's fifth is one of the best symphonies ever written.

'Nuff said.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on June 10, 2010, 08:37:08 AM
My ranking of the Nielsen Symphonies from best to "worst" looks something like this:

#4 - #3 - #5 - #2 - #6 - #1

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 10, 2010, 09:09:34 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 10, 2010, 08:37:08 AM
My ranking of the Nielsen Symphonies from best to "worst" looks something like this: #4 - #3 - #5 - #2 - #6 - #1

I've always thought of the Third, Fourth and Fifth as the Big Three-- and as equals --- with the others occupying a lesser position, but it's not an opinion I'm prepared to defend to the death. I appreciate the Sixth more and more, and I've always loved the Second, even if it reminds me of Brahms at times. It was Nielsen's  most popular symphony during his lifetime, I believe. The second and fourth movements are outstanding, with the themes so simple and yet so inspired one can't believe they haven't existed forever.

The First is a young man's effort, and I haven't listened to it enough to judge. I should go back to it. Maybe even today. First symphony in history to end in a different key than it sarts in, I believe. There's a word for that, but I can think of it. Something like polydiatonharomicism.

Just listened to the Suite Op. 45, the Three Piano Pieces Op. 59 and a few of the songs. Beautiful stuff is all I can say, though with music so varied, beauty means several different things.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: alkan on June 11, 2010, 03:57:43 AM
Quote from: Saul on June 10, 2010, 04:39:30 AM
Nielsen's fifth is one of the best symphonies ever written.
And Nielsen's "Masquerade" is one of the best overtures ever written !!!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 11, 2010, 11:56:26 AM
Quote from: alkan on June 11, 2010, 03:57:43 AM
And Nielsen's "Masquerade" is one of the best overtures ever written !!!

I don't believe this opera has ever been staged in the US. I keep hoping the Philadelphia opera company will do it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Joe Barron on June 15, 2010, 10:04:29 AM
I have two recording's of CN's Sixth --- Ole Schmidt and Herbert Blomstedt with the SFS. I've listened to both in the past week. Both are great, bu I have to say and I'm particularly  impressed with the Blomstedt. It has clarity, power and drive, and the CD has a very full, "present" sound. the section that caught my attention when i was listening to it last night was the end of the third movement, when the orchestra is slowing down, and the the high strings are playing a haunting, broken, wandering figure over the winds. It never really struck me with such force before, and I've known this piece for more than thirty years.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 15, 2010, 10:08:26 AM
Hear, hear.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: drogulus on June 16, 2010, 09:26:43 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 15, 2010, 10:04:29 AM
I have two recording's of CN's Sixth --- Ole Schmidt and Herbert Blomstedt with the SFS. I've listened to both in the past week. Both are great, bu I have to say and I'm particularly  impressed with the Blomstedt. It has clarity, power and drive, and the CD has a very full, "present" sound. the section that caught my attention when i was listening to it last night was the end of the third movement, when the orchestra is slowing down, and the the high strings are playing a haunting, broken, wandering figure over the winds. It never really struck me with such force before, and I've known this piece for more than thirty years.

     These are the 2 cycles I have, and as an inexpert listener they sound authoritative (I guessed as much when I chose them, following leads from here). I'm still working my way through the 2 sets, on the 3rd symphony.

     
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 16, 2010, 09:59:32 AM
They are both good, though I believe that Blomstedt has the edge.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on November 24, 2010, 08:38:11 AM
Quote from: Joe Barron on June 10, 2010, 09:09:34 AM
. . . The First is a young man's effort, and I haven't listened to it enough to judge. I should go back to it. Maybe even today.

A young work, but strong.  There are some ways in which I prefer the First to the Second.

Quote from: Joe BarronFirst symphony in history to end in a different key than it sarts in, I believe. There's a word for that, but I can think of it. Something like polydiatonharomicism.

Progressive tonality?

Separately . . .

Chorus for the 50th Anniversary of the Danish Cremation Union: has anyone heard it?  Somehow I find myself struck with interest in this.  Not directly related to tomorrow's being Thanksgiving, I think.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on November 24, 2010, 08:58:20 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 24, 2010, 08:38:11 AM
Progressive tonality?

I think there are earlier works that start in minor and end in major; i heard such a work a few days ago but cannot for the life of me remember what it was.

Edit: I wonder if it was a Sinfonia by J C Bach.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scarpia on November 24, 2010, 09:17:46 AM
Quote from: erato on November 24, 2010, 08:58:20 AM
I think there are earlier works that start in minor and end in major; i heard such a work a few days ago but cannot for the life of me remember what it was.

I believe it was not atypical for minor key symphonies to end in the major during the classical era.   Beethoven's 5th certainly begins in c minor and ends in c major.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Opus106 on November 24, 2010, 09:30:02 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on November 24, 2010, 09:17:46 AM
Beethoven's 5th certainly begins in c minor and ends in c major.

And Mahler's 2nd (c to Eb). I think it was while reading about that work that I first came across the term.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 24, 2010, 10:16:22 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on November 24, 2010, 09:17:46 AM
I believe it was not atypical for minor key symphonies to end in the major during the classical era.   Beethoven's 5th certainly begins in c minor and ends in c major.

Not the same thing at all as ending in a different tonic (an earlier example of which is the Chopin 2nd Ballade, which begins in F major and ends in A minor - which still is a related key). By placing his finale in the major, Beethoven was using a large-scale version of the Picardy 3rd, very common in minor mode works (including numerous instances in Bach) because the major mode was felt to have greater stability. Much less common is a major mode work ending in its own tonic minor, but the Brahms Eb Rhapsody op. 119/4 qualifies. Even the Mahler 2nd progresses from the nominal minor mode (C minor) to the relative major (Eb) - a closely related key. A more radical procedure is in the Mahler 5, which begins in C# minor and ends in D major, a tonality that is completely unrelated. Same with the Mahler 9th, which begins in D and has its adagio finale in Db.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on November 24, 2010, 10:55:03 AM
Quote from: Sforzando on November 24, 2010, 10:16:22 AM
Not the same thing at all as ending in a different tonic (an earlier example of which is the Chopin 2nd Ballade, which begins in F major and ends in A minor - which still is a related key).

Chopin was quite a trailblazer in this, even on a small scale . . . the a minor prelude actually begins in e minor.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on November 24, 2010, 11:03:41 AM
Quote from: Opus106 on November 24, 2010, 09:30:02 AM
And Mahler's 2nd (c to Eb).

That's still a move to the relative major, one of the closest relations.

Nielsen's First opens in g minor . . . second movement in G, the parallel major . . . third movement in the "Schubertian" E-flat major (the flattened submediant).  The fourth movement, like the first, starts in g minor, though with a C major chord . . . which sets up the idea of concluding the piece with C as the tonic.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on November 24, 2010, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 24, 2010, 11:03:41 AM
That's still a move to the relative major, one of the closest relations.

Nielsen's First opens in g minor . . . second movement in G, the parallel major . . . third movement in the "Schubertian" E-flat major (the flattened submediant).  The fourth movement, like the first, starts in g minor, though with a C major chord . . . which sets up the idea of concluding the piece with C as the tonic.

Pity Saul isn't here to explain all this stuff to us.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 24, 2010, 12:37:03 PM
Quote from: erato on November 24, 2010, 11:05:28 AM
Pity Saul isn't here to explain all this stuff to us.

We must soldier on somehow without him.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on November 24, 2010, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 24, 2010, 10:55:03 AM
Chopin was quite a trailblazer in this, even on a small scale . . . the a minor prelude actually begins in e minor.

Unless you want to think of that e minor as V in a minor. But however you do it, that piece certainly feels like one of Chopin's most harmonically unstable through most of its length. This is an interesting discussion:

http://www.scottdstrader.com/blog/ether_archives/000374.html
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on November 25, 2010, 07:17:33 AM
[ cross-post ]

This Thanksgiving season, I've sort of slouched into a Nielsen revival.  And last night I revisited the "Cantata rarities" Da Capo disc.

This morning, I've just listened (with score) to the First Symphony.  Really a marvelous symphony, especially for a first.  As a first, you expect it to owe something to certain composers as models . . . but Nielsen has already assimilated the craft, and the piece is entirely in his own voice.  He wrote this piece with the lean economies of Brahms, yet the material is by turns buoyant and fiery.

I think I shall likely have time to revisit De fire Temperamenter a little later today.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Superhorn on November 28, 2010, 07:06:01 AM
  Nielsen carried progressive tonality to the point that a movement,particularly in his later works,might end in a totally unrealted key. 
   The first movement of the 3rd begins in d minor,but ends in A major,which is very unorthodox. The 4th has no one key at all, and moves restlessly from one to another,achieving tonal stability only at climaxes.
  The 5th is in two movements,and the tonal center procedes in the first from roughly F to C to G,rising by fifths.
  The second begins in B major,proceding to F minor,F major, resuming B major and ultimately ending in E falt major, a key which had never previously been used !
   In Nielsen's music,tonality is extremely fluid and unfixed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on December 31, 2010, 06:24:43 PM
Nielsen is one of those great early 20th Century composers who was still shaking off some of that Romantic residue to only, in turn, come up with some of the most incredible and inventive symphonic music of that century. I got into Nielsen the same time I got into Sibelius. Their music is like night and day. It's amusing they're lumped in with each other just because they both hail from Scandinavia. Anyway, Nielsen's six symphonies are masterpieces of the genre I think. They have this certain edginess to them that I find interesting. One of the most interesting aspects of Nielsen's music is how he is almost in constant motion and doesn't linger too long with one idea. It's as almost he has composer's ADD. :D I've really come to love his music and there's a lot of great stuff beyond the symphonies, which has already effectively been covered by other members.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on June 10, 2011, 12:25:22 PM
Great news: Alan Gilbert and the NYPO will record Nielsen's six symphonies and three concertos, on Dacapo. From the press release:

"The New York Philharmonic, conducted by Music Director Alan Gilbert, The Yoko Nagae Ceschina Chair, will over several seasons perform and record the six symphonies and three concertos of Carl Nielsen (1865–1931) — the national composer of Denmark for release on Denmark's Dacapo label. The soloists for the individual concertos — for flute, violin, and clarinet — will be Philharmonic Principal Flute Robert Langevin, Philharmonic Principal Clarinet Designate Ricardo Morales, and violinist Nikolaj Znaider. Each of the four discs will be released separately — the first, in the fall of 2012 — with all being integrated into a set in the fall of 2015 to coincide with the 150th anniversary of Nielsen's birth; they will be distributed worldwide by the Naxos group."

Complete info (in PDF form) here (http://nyphil.org/newsroom/files/Nielsen%20Project%206.10.11.pdf).

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 10, 2011, 07:23:21 PM
Quote from: Brewski on June 10, 2011, 12:25:22 PM
Great news: Alan Gilbert and the NYPO will record Nielsen's six symphonies and three concertos, on Dacapo. From the press release:

"The New York Philharmonic, conducted by Music Director Alan Gilbert, The Yoko Nagae Ceschina Chair, will over several seasons perform and record the six symphonies and three concertos of Carl Nielsen (1865–1931) — the national composer of Denmark for release on Denmark's Dacapo label. The soloists for the individual concertos — for flute, violin, and clarinet — will be Philharmonic Principal Flute Robert Langevin, Philharmonic Principal Clarinet Designate Ricardo Morales, and violinist Nikolaj Znaider. Each of the four discs will be released separately — the first, in the fall of 2012 — with all being integrated into a set in the fall of 2015 to coincide with the 150th anniversary of Nielsen's birth; they will be distributed worldwide by the Naxos group."

Complete info (in PDF form) here (http://nyphil.org/newsroom/files/Nielsen%20Project%206.10.11.pdf).

--Bruce

This is great news indeed. Will this be the first Gilbert-led NY Philharmonic commercial release?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: jlaurson on June 11, 2011, 03:30:24 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 10, 2011, 07:23:21 PM
This is great news indeed. Will this be the first Gilbert-led NY Philharmonic commercial release?

Well... great news for the NYPhil & Gilbert to do something interesting... whether it will improve on existing cycles is another question.
Gilbert has recorded more or less the whole season with the NYPhil, but they're only on-line / iTunes 'recordings', not hard-copy releases... so yes, it would be what we understand a first 'commercial release' to be.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on June 11, 2011, 04:22:41 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 11, 2011, 03:30:24 AM
Well... great news for the NYPhil & Gilbert to do something interesting... whether it will improve on existing cycles is another question.
Gilbert has recorded more or less the whole season with the NYPhil, but they're only on-line / iTunes 'recordings', not hard-copy releases... so yes, it would be what we understand a first 'commercial release' to be.

That's terrible.  The majority of classical music listeners still prefer buying cds (actually the majority of music listeners as a whole still buy more cds than digital downloads), offering only downloads is flat out foolish.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on June 11, 2011, 04:40:07 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 11, 2011, 03:30:24 AM
Well... great news for the NYPhil & Gilbert to do something interesting... whether it will improve on existing cycles is another question.

And, love Nielsen's music though I do, he's a composer now faded practically into antiquity.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: jlaurson on June 11, 2011, 05:09:27 AM
Quote from: DavidW on June 11, 2011, 04:22:41 AM
That's terrible.  The majority of classical music listeners still prefer buying cds (actually the majority of music listeners as a whole still buy more cds than digital downloads), offering only downloads is flat out foolish.

No... it's not. It's just a different marketing angle and need not necessarily (as the Nielsen project shows) come at the expense of 'proper' distribution/format choices.

Nor is what you say true for all markets; LSO live, for example, sells more in digital format in the US than in hard-copy.

Nor would it be advisable to saturate the market with CDs of 'everything'. Really, who on earth would buy run-of-the-mill NYPhil concerts with Alan Gilbert on CD? No.... prudence on that front is surely warranted... and then release only something that is really thought out, has an angle, and hopefully the quality to withstand the competition while offering an interpretive-something-special.

The important stuff will, for the foreseeable future, still be issued on CDs also. [Which is good for me, because I don't do 'digital' yet. Just can't get excited or attached to files on my computer, even if great music hides behind them. Lack of sense of ownership, I reckon.]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on June 11, 2011, 05:41:13 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 11, 2011, 05:09:27 AM
Nor is what you say true for all markets; LSO live, for example, sells more in digital format in the US than in hard-copy.

You've cherry picked a specific case, but overall it's something like 2/3 of the market are still cds.  And the erosion due to digital downloads is most likely less significant in the classical music sector given that arkivmusic still continues to exist and grow even in a recession despite being a cd store with a just few download options.

QuoteNor would it be advisable to saturate the market with CDs of 'everything'. Really, who on earth would buy run-of-the-mill NYPhil concerts with Alan Gilbert on CD? No.... prudence on that front is surely warranted... and then release only something that is really thought out, has an angle, and hopefully the quality to withstand the competition while offering an interpretive-something-special.

I can say who on earth would buy run-of-the-mill NYPhil concerts with Albert Gilbert period!  If it's not a great performance, another format won't change that.  I don't see why itunes albums at $10 per is more worth it than a cd, it's not the price.  You could still spend that money on better recordings.  And that season pass is $150, that buys many high quality performances on itunes or cd.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on June 11, 2011, 05:46:01 AM
And I'll add that that itunes albums are not bargains.  Itunes is considered by many to be a cheap option simply because with pop music it allows customers to choose the 2-3 songs they like and pay for only those so that they have paid $2-3 for what they wanted instead of $10-17.  But for classical listeners we want entire albums, and many listeners also desire lossless audio.  And the fact is that amazon marketplace and ebay (and other sites) offer cds cheaper than albums on itunes.  This is why the majority of classical listeners (that pay for their music) are cd buyers.  You don't want to alienate that audience.  Not now at least.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 11, 2011, 06:44:56 AM
Quote from: DavidW on June 11, 2011, 04:22:41 AM
That's terrible.  The majority of classical music listeners still prefer buying cds (actually the majority of music listeners as a whole still buy more cds than digital downloads), offering only downloads is flat out foolish.

I agree they should have released some recordings already. Like you said, a lot of people still buy CDs, myself included, and would have liked to hear how Gilbert is doing with the NY Philharmonic.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 14, 2011, 06:15:10 PM
My goodness An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands is a killer piece! Whew....
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 05:54:34 AM
In preparation for being moved to the original "Carl Nielsen" thread, I'm emending my post to just talk about the Opus 1

Suite for Strings (also known as "The Little Suite" or "The Petite Suite") Op. 1:

Written when he was 22 or 23, this is still one of Nielsen's most popular works.  The first movement - "Praludium" is a short and kind of mysterious little Andante.  It's intriguing, but I don't catch much in it that reminds me of the later symphonies.  The second movement is a dance-like Allegro moderato, reminding me a lot of Dvorak with a touch of Grieg-like moments.  The oom-pah-pah string rhythm of the secondary theme testifies to that folk-music background I mentioned.  Overall, this is my favorite of the three movements, even if it does seem a bit derivative.  The opening Andante of the third and final movement is the first part that made me say - "There's Nielsen!", because the theme has a signature Nielsen melodic line to it.  Unfortunately, the Allegro con brio that follows this short introduction seems pretty conventional to me.  It seems like a lot of fuss about relatively nothing (which is very, very uncharacteristic of the mature Nielsen).

To date, I've only heard one version of this work.  I'm going to sample some more and listen many more times to it.  I expect I'll change my analysis a little after that.  I know everyone will be waiting with baited breath.  :D

In the meantime, comment away - especially if you know more about "The Little Suite".
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on August 21, 2011, 05:57:28 AM
Quote from: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 05:54:34 AM
I searched for a thread devoted exclusively to Carl Nielsen, and I couldn't find one. 

The search engine doesn't like you! ;D

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=230.0 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=230.0)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on August 21, 2011, 05:58:47 AM
Bumped for Vesteralen. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 06:00:25 AM
Quote from: DavidW on August 21, 2011, 05:57:28 AM
The search engine doesn't like you! ;D

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=230.0 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=230.0)

Rats.  You'd think the word "Nielsen" would have been enough to bring this up.  I guess I needed to put the "Carl" in. 

Well, I expect to be tagged onto the existing thread after all.   Which is okay. :)

Now I have a lot more reading to do!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on August 21, 2011, 06:02:33 AM
My trick is that I just google, this is what I typed into google btw:

nielsen site:http://www.good-music-guide.com/community

It works better than gmg's search engine, I never use it myself. :D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 06:10:19 AM
Quote from: DavidW on August 21, 2011, 06:02:33 AM
My trick is that I just google, this is what I typed into google btw:

nielsen site:http://www.good-music-guide.com/community

It works better than gmg's search engine, I never use it myself. :D

Thanks, I'll try to remember that trick.

In the meantime, I edited my original post so it won't look as embarrassing when I'm moved to the original thread.   ::)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 06:12:20 AM
Quote from: uffeviking on February 22, 2008, 04:11:39 PM
Alex Ross about Nielsen in this week's The New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2008/02/25/080225crmu_music_ross

I know this is old, but I love this article.  Thanks for linking it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 21, 2011, 07:27:52 AM
Quote from: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 06:12:20 AM
I know this is old, but I love this article.  Thanks for linking it.

What are your favorite Nielsen works?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 07:43:59 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 21, 2011, 07:27:52 AM
What are your favorite Nielsen works?

I think I can truthfully say that I've never heard a Nielsen work I didn't like.  Of the symphonies, the Fifth has always seemed to me to be in a class by itself.  The Sixth is probably the one I have the least affection for at this point, but maybe I need to do some more concentrated listening.

The Maskerade and Helios Overtures, along with the Saga-Drom are special to me, and I love all the concertos.

Of all the Nielsens I've heard so far, only the String Quartets seem to be less than fascinating, but, again, I haven't given them the attention they probably deserve.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 21, 2011, 07:46:49 AM
Quote from: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 07:43:59 AM
I think I can truthfully say that I've never heard a Nielsen work I didn't like.  Of the symphonies, the Fifth has always seemed to me to be in a class by itself.  The Sixth is probably the one I have the least affection for at this point, but maybe I need to do some more concentrated listening.

The Maskerade and Helios Overtures, along with the Saga-Drom are special to me, and I love all the concertos.

Of all the Nielsens I've heard so far, only the String Quartets seem to be less than fascinating, but, again, I haven't given them the attention they probably deserve.

Those are all great works. I've never cared much for the 6th either. The 2nd, 4th, and 5th are my favorite Nielsen symphonies. Have you heard An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on August 21, 2011, 07:56:51 AM
Oh man I can't wait to listen to the Frost recording of the great clarinet concerto I have it on a nml playlist! :)

btw I stand with MI, my favorite symphonies are 2, 4 and 5. :)  But I like the clarinet concerto as much btw.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 08:03:38 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 21, 2011, 07:46:49 AM
Those are all great works. I've never cared much for the 6th either. The 2nd, 4th, and 5th are my favorite Nielsen symphonies. Have you heard An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands?

It's on the 2CD Blomstedt EMI with the Concertos and other orchestral works.  I know I've played this many times, but I need to refresh my memory on this particular track.  I'll pull it out and play it later today after I get done with all the other stuff I have to do in the next few hours.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 21, 2011, 08:29:21 AM
Quote from: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 08:03:38 AM
It's on the 2CD Blomstedt EMI with the Concertos and other orchestral works.  I know I've played this many times, but I need to refresh my memory on this particular track.  I'll pull it out and play it later today after I get done with all the other stuff I have to do in the next few hours.

I prefer the Dausgaard performance to Blomstedt's. I have not heard Chung's performance (yet). Do you own this recording?

[asin]B000M2DNQY[/asin]

I highly recommend it. Some very enthusiastic, authentic performances of some of Nielsen's other orchestral works.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2011, 09:15:27 AM
Quote from: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 07:43:59 AM
I think I can truthfully say that I've never heard a Nielsen work I didn't like.

Likewise.

If you take the Sixth Symphony on its own terms, which is more like chamber music than like The Last Symphony Culminating a Cycle, I think it is easier to appreciate it as the work of audacious, assured genius that it is.  This is an iconic instance of Nielsen zigging where the expectation is a zag.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: karlhenning on August 21, 2011, 09:16:37 AM
Quote from: DavidW on August 21, 2011, 07:56:51 AM
Oh man I can't wait to listen to the Frost recording of the great clarinet concerto I have it on a nml playlist! :)

Truly an outstanding performance of a great, great piece!  You're entirely right: this concerto is as great as or greater than any of the symphonies!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on August 21, 2011, 09:35:54 AM
I find the 6th symphony and the clarinet concerto both to be superlative works, and somewhat of a piece. They're great examples of how a comparatively conservative composer can turn an ambivalent attitude towards more modern styles and techniques into something just as radical as those, merely differently so. And of how the symphonic/chamber music dichotomy can be utterly transcended.

One of these days I'll get the Frost recording--the reviews have been too consistently ecstatic for me to pass it up forever, though the original Cahuzac is a remarkable document in itself.

FWIW, if I absolutely had to choose a favourite symphony, I'd probably choose 5>6>4>3; the first movement of the 5th is an absolutely phenomenal creation--and extremely radical in its own way as well. In fact, my biggest issue with the 5th is a sense that performances of it have to solve the same issue as those of Mahler's 9th--how do you balance the weights of the first and last movements? Good as Bernstein and Tuxen (my favourite recordings thus far) are, I don't feel that the last movement answers all the questions posed in the first. But maybe that's part of the point? The sidestepping of the argument of the first movement of the 6th symphony certainly is.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 21, 2011, 01:46:01 PM
I like the 6th Symphony and regard it as one of the greatest of the cycle (with 5 and 4).  In spirit it reminds me of Shostakovich's 15th Symphony - there is a kind of gallows humour in both works.  I think that the opening movement of the 6th Symphony is genuinely tragic. I also love the Faroes Islands piece, Helios and Saga Drom.  there is a fine old Unicorn LP/CD with Horenstein conducting Symphony No 5 (with a great/manic side-drummer) coupled with Saga Drom. I like the Alexander Gibson recordings of Nielsen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 01:52:46 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 21, 2011, 08:29:21 AM
I prefer the Dausgaard performance to Blomstedt's. I have not heard Chung's performance (yet). Do you own this recording?

I highly recommend it. Some very enthusiastic, authentic performances of some of Nielsen's other orchestral works.

I saw this recording recommended earlier on this thread, but I don't have it.  Yet.  ;)

By the way, just a word of thanks for all the posts, old and new, on this thread.  I have to say that reading this thread (and a related link) has been the most enjoyable experience I've had yet on a classical music forum.  I know that not everybody loves Nielsen, or even gets him, but it's nice to know so many do.

I listened to the 'Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands' from the Blomstedt disc, and I'm sort of ashamed to say I didn't recognize it.  I guess I must have overlooked it in the past, for some odd reason.  Very nice.  I'm interested in hearing the version you recommended.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 21, 2011, 01:46:01 PM
there is a fine old Unicorn LP/CD with Horenstein conducting Symphony No 5 (with a great/manic side-drummer) coupled with Saga Drom. I like the Alexander Gibson recordings of Nielsen.

Is this the same record that was released in the US in the late sixties or early seventies on the Nonesuch (LP) label?  If so, it was the very first Nielsen work I listened to.  I don't know why it took me another twenty years or so to look into more of his works.

I've seen Horenstein's Fifth recommended earlier on this thread.  I'm guessing there was only the one recording, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 21, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
I have the studio recording (Unicorn) but there's also a live version on BBC Legends which I don't know (with Mahler Symphony 6).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on August 21, 2011, 05:20:37 PM
I have yet to take to Nielsen, but I notice here there seems to be a consensus for the 5th as possibly the greatest of the cycle.  I have Jensen (rereleased on Eloquence) and the earlier Blomstedt, neither of which has sold me. Anyone want to play duelling recommendations? ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 21, 2011, 07:19:12 PM
Quote from: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 01:52:46 PM
I saw this recording recommended earlier on this thread, but I don't have it.  Yet.  ;)

By the way, just a word of thanks for all the posts, old and new, on this thread.  I have to say that reading this thread (and a related link) has been the most enjoyable experience I've had yet on a classical music forum.  I know that not everybody loves Nielsen, or even gets him, but it's nice to know so many do.

I listened to the 'Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands' from the Blomstedt disc, and I'm sort of ashamed to say I didn't recognize it.  I guess I must have overlooked it in the past, for some odd reason.  Very nice.  I'm interested in hearing the version you recommended.

Nielsen's music is highly accessible to me. He is always direct and his music has purpose. Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands is a recent discovery of mine. I, too, have overlooked this work, but I'm glad I wised up and gave it a thorough listen, because it's become one of my favorite Nielsen pieces.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Lisztianwagner on January 18, 2012, 02:02:26 PM
Carl Nielsen was one of my main discoveries in 2011 and he quickly became one of my favourite composers :) His music sounds rather particular, with a style influenced both by the Russian tradition and the German atonality, but it is also incredibly powerful and passionate, showing a chromatic and expressive harmony, really very beautiful; it certainly touches my heart!
The symphonies, especially No.3 and No.4, are my favourite Nielsen's works, but other compositions I love are the Aladdin Suite, the Violin Concerto and the Maskarade Overture.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on January 18, 2012, 09:28:56 PM
QuoteI have yet to take to Nielsen, but I notice here there seems to be a consensus for the 5th as possibly the greatest of the cycle.  I have Jensen (rereleased on Eloquence) and the earlier Blomstedt, neither of which has sold me. Anyone want to play duelling recommendations?

Nielsen 5 / Bernstein, NYPO. One of the essential 10 discs of symphonies from the 20th century, IMO. By far the most dramatic version, incredible string and wind playing, I haven´t heard the finale that good elsewhere. Blomstedt has stated that he strived for the string effects in Bernstein´s recording, but couldn´t succeed. Blomstedt´s 4th/decca is very good, though.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: jlaurson on January 18, 2012, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on August 21, 2011, 05:20:37 PM
I have yet to take to Nielsen, but I notice here there seems to be a consensus for the 5th as possibly the greatest of the cycle.  I have Jensen (rereleased on Eloquence) and the earlier Blomstedt, neither of which has sold me. Anyone want to play duelling recommendations? ;)

I like Kubelik / Danish RSO / EMI (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0018OAP6G/goodmusicguide-20), but am not sure if that'd be the version to 'wow' someone who doesn't already 'believe' in the symphony. And I've much enjoyed the recent LSO Live recording of it with Colin Davis (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004DKDO3I/goodmusicguide-20).

I don't really know of an equivalent recording of the Fifth that parallels the one of the 2nd & 4th of Gould & Martinon (RCA) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2007/01/best-recordings-of-2006.html)...


Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 19, 2012, 02:14:58 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on August 21, 2011, 05:20:37 PM
I have yet to take to Nielsen, but I notice here there seems to be a consensus for the 5th as possibly the greatest of the cycle.  I have Jensen (rereleased on Eloquence) and the earlier Blomstedt, neither of which has sold me. Anyone want to play duelling recommendations? ;)

Bernstein's is the best Fifth.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 19, 2012, 02:21:19 AM
Quote from: Vesteralen on August 21, 2011, 01:58:23 PM
Is this the same record that was released in the US in the late sixties or early seventies on the Nonesuch (LP) label?

Yes. Horenstein's Nonesuch and Unicorn performances are one and the same.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on January 19, 2012, 09:31:00 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on January 18, 2012, 10:37:22 PM
I like Kubelik / Danish RSO / EMI (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0018OAP6G/goodmusicguide-20), but am not sure if that'd be the version to 'wow' someone who doesn't already 'believe' in the symphony. And I've much enjoyed the recent LSO Live recording of it with Colin Davis (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004DKDO3I/goodmusicguide-20).

I don't really know of an equivalent recording of the Fifth that parallels the one of the 2nd & 4th of Gould & Martinon (RCA) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2007/01/best-recordings-of-2006.html)...
Agree with those who're big admirers of Bernstein in the 5th, though I think the famous Tuxen live recording in Edinburgh may be even more electric. I don't find that either defines my view of the work in the way the CSO/Martinon Inextinguishable does, so I'm still looking for something different in the work--the Kubelik and Horenstein both intrigue me. (I've ended up not buying the Kubelik thus far because I have everything else on the 2-CD set.)

Revisited the Bryden Thomson recording of the 6th last night; I find the coupled 4th to be a bit of a turkey, but this 6th has to be one of the most underrated Nielsen recordings out there--the mix of innocence, nightmarish horror and bizarre humour is superbly projected here. Definitely my favourite reading of this--perhaps my favourite Nielsen symphony--thus far.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on April 14, 2012, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 11, 2011, 04:40:07 AM
And, love Nielsen's music though I do, he's a composer now faded practically into antiquity.
Apparently not in Denmark, at least.

I've recently been giving his chamber pieces a spin again.  Some of them are quite good (and often a bit experimental.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: lescamil on April 14, 2012, 04:49:11 PM
Saw Nielsen's Clarinet Concerto performed last night in the reduction for clarinet and piano in a brilliant performance by a few of my peers at my university. I am normally not a fan of reductions at all, but this gave a brand new perspective on the piece. The interplay between clarinet and piano was excellent and was more exciting than the version with orchestra we all know and love. I still like the orchestral version more (that's how it should be), but I have a new appreciation for what Nielsen did in that piece. Almost makes me wish he wrote a piano concerto.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 15, 2012, 06:22:47 AM
Yes, I've played it in that reduction. Great piece!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 15, 2012, 04:11:50 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on August 21, 2011, 05:20:37 PM
I have yet to take to Nielsen, but I notice here there seems to be a consensus for the 5th as possibly the greatest of the cycle.  I have Jensen (rereleased on Eloquence) and the earlier Blomstedt, neither of which has sold me. Anyone want to play duelling recommendations? ;)

The one I have in my collection is the Horenstein, which I think is very great. However, I had an LP recoridng from EMI Classics backs in the 80s with Paavo Berglund and the Bornemouth Symphony Orchestra that sold me on the symphony (and Nielsen) (+Robert Simpson's Radio Three talks). I assume it was released on disk at some stage.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 15, 2012, 11:22:57 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on August 21, 2011, 05:20:37 PM
I have yet to take to Nielsen, but I notice here there seems to be a consensus for the 5th as possibly the greatest of the cycle. 

I'm not part of that consensus. For me Nielsen's fourth is the greatest of his symphonies.

From my point of view symphonies #2 and especially #3 are generally undervalued and symphony #5 is a bit overvalued if that is even possible with a symphonist as fine as Nielsen.

I have only one cycle (Leaper on Naxos). Other cycles might put these works in different light and even change the order. 
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 23, 2012, 03:07:56 PM
Just listening to Maskarade, and remembering what a wonderful opera that is. I was listening to it late at night and unfortunately fell asleep at the end of Act 2 (a comment on my tiredness, not the music). Have to listen to Act 3 tonight.

:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on April 24, 2012, 12:36:52 AM
The best thing from Denmark since the cheese dessert!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on April 24, 2012, 01:05:11 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 15, 2012, 11:22:57 PM
For me Nielsen's fourth is the greatest of his symphonies.

For me too.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 24, 2012, 03:56:57 PM
Ok, finished Maskarade and I remembered that when I have listened to it before I noticed that the third act has a problem. Found this again.

I know Nielsen himself was dissatisfied with the third act and wanted to revise it, but I don't think the problem is the music, it' s the libretto. I don't think there's enough wrapping up at the end, I want to know how Jeronimos, Magdelone and Leonard sort things out, I want to see more of the happy couples (Leander and Leonora, Herik and Perille), I want to see what happens to Arv.

Could this be be the only opera in the world that's too short?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Superhorn on April 25, 2012, 06:36:06 AM
  You have to get the terrific DVD of Maskarade from the Royal Danish opera in Copenhagen,
which fortunately has English substitles.  The production sets the action in the present day,
but with no damage to the opera .In fact, there are lots of clever bits made possible by
updating .  The entire cast seems to be having a ball , including the audience .
There's another DVD version, but it's from Austria and is in German, which I haven't seen.
   There are no international superstars in the Copenhagen performance, but the cast is
all Danish ,with one Norwegian, and still excellent. The conductor is Michael Schonwandt,
one of Denmark's leading conductors , and he does a terrific job .









8)                                                          8)                                           8)                                                   8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on April 25, 2012, 08:36:26 PM

So. The 6th symphony. Whose is best?

Chung
Blomstedt
Schmidt
Kuchar
Saraste
Jarvi
Rozhdestvensky
Etc. ...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2012, 08:47:57 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on April 25, 2012, 08:36:26 PM
So. The 6th symphony. Whose is best?

Chung
Blomstedt
Schmidt
Kuchar
Saraste
Jarvi
Rozhdestvensky
Etc. ...

For me, it's a toss-up between Blomstedt and Schonwandt. You can't go wrong with either IMHO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on April 25, 2012, 09:12:05 PM
(http://s14.postimage.org/m12kwx4zl/r_Nielsen_5th_Nonesuch_2_Unicorn.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: starrynight on April 26, 2012, 01:55:58 AM
Just my opinion but the problem with posting images alone with things is that the links eventually won't work and they won't convey any information at all.  Just a personal annoyance of mine.  :D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on April 26, 2012, 02:35:07 AM
(http://youknowyoucare.com/wp-content/gallery/queen/queen_elizabeth_ii.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on April 26, 2012, 02:41:53 AM
Well, I think you've managed to insult everyone by posting that image on a forum dedicated to matters of culture and taste!

And so as not to go completely off-message, I'd be interested in anyone's recommendations for a good Commotio (my fave, btw, is an old LP by Grethe Krogh Christensen).

DF
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on April 26, 2012, 04:41:33 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on April 25, 2012, 08:36:26 PM
So. The 6th symphony. Whose is best?

Chung
Blomstedt
Schmidt
Kuchar
Saraste
Jarvi
Rozhdestvensky
Etc. ...
I think the two 6ths I come back most to are two recordings from perhaps slightly surprising sources: Eugene Ormandy and Bryden Thomson. Both really bring home to me the intensity and taut structures of the first and third movements but are also fully alive to the bizarre humour that runs through the second and some of the fourth movement.

Re: Commotio, I'd be interested too; I've got the Kevin Bowyer recording on Nimbus which I've found very satisfying, but I don't know if there is better to be had.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on April 26, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Listening to the Blomstedt Danish cycle while waiting for my Kuchar set to be delivered (if it ever is). I've read the 1st described as Brahms's 5th, but that only really works if you've never heard any other 19th century symphonies. It's more like Franck x Dvorak x Balakirev.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 26, 2012, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on April 26, 2012, 05:41:25 PM
Listening to the Blomstedt Danish cycle while waiting for my Kuchar set to be delivered (if it ever is). I've read the 1st described as Brahms's 5th, but that only really works if you've never heard any other 19th century symphonies. It's more like Franck x Dvorak x Balakirev.

And don't forget Svendsen and Gade as influences.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on April 26, 2012, 09:23:31 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on April 26, 2012, 09:01:47 PM
And don't forget Svendsen and Gade as influences.

I confess I don't know their symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on April 27, 2012, 12:06:18 AM
I've always heard the 1st as Berwald's 5th, with a dash of Svendsen's 3rd - the latter of which I believe really did exist, before becoming another of those Nordic symphonies that got chucked on the fire.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 27, 2012, 03:15:41 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on April 26, 2012, 09:23:31 PM
I confess I don't know their symphonies.

Leave it that way, is my opinion.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on April 27, 2012, 03:19:53 AM
For those with and interest beyond the symphonies, this set is now cheaply available (cheapest on an ongoing offer on europadisc):

[asin]B007N0SVDS[/asin]

6 discs for the price of two midprice discs.

Believe me. There's plenty of wortwhile things here!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 27, 2012, 03:24:59 AM
Quote from: The new erato on April 27, 2012, 03:19:53 AM
For those with and interest beyond the symphonies, this set is now cheaply available (cheapest on an ongoing offer on europadisc):

[asin]B007N0SVDS[/asin]

6 discs for the price of two midprice discs.

Believe me. There's plenty of wortwhile things here!

Many thanks! I'm in.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on April 27, 2012, 03:31:22 AM
Yes, Nielsen's chamber pieces are very good.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 27, 2012, 03:44:46 AM
The Wind Quintet was an instant classic, of course; the quartets I have long wanted to investigate, and this is an undeniably ripe opportunity.  I have a curious idea that I have heard one or more of the violin sonatas, but orchestrated . . . should investigate that, and may do so to-day . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on April 27, 2012, 03:50:36 AM
There are also some works for solo violin that is very god - suprisingly so given that nobody seems to know them (I have that particular single disc from this set; exceedingly fine disc); and I really do like some of the piano works; unpretentious mainly, but utterly charming in the Springtime in Funen mould. I have the Roscoe set on Hyperion and like it a lot.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 27, 2012, 04:42:48 AM
Well, the composer was a violinist himself, and as the Concerto shows, he writes in strength there, especially.

Vol. I is on my wish list, but I am sow to act there, wondering if I really need another set of symphonies.  Vol. II, though, was clearly value added, so that was an easy button to mash : )
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on April 27, 2012, 04:49:14 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 27, 2012, 03:44:46 AM
I have a curious idea that I have heard one or more of the violin sonatas, but orchestrated . . . should investigate that, and may do so to-day . . . .
Correct, Nielsen´s fellow countryman Bo Holten has orchestrated the 2nd Violin Sonata; CD issue by Danacord
http://odensesymfoni.dk/Webnodes/da/Web/Odense+Symfoniorkester/SHOP/CD+Nielsen/Nielsen+Commotio+m.m.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Aug02/nielsencommotio.htm
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 27, 2012, 05:03:27 AM
Aye, that's a nice disc!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on April 30, 2012, 05:38:19 PM
Listening to a bit more Nielsen. I find it helps me to think of him as proto-Shostakovich - certainly for the late symphonies and clarinet concerto.


I have a question for the panel!

What do we think of Bostock's cycle? I understand that no-one considers it a first choice, but the Third Ear guide rates him well ahead of Schonwandt (much loved of MI and Classics Today).

I ask because I've discovered the set below, which includes not only the symphonies but also the concertos and major orchestral works, songs and some piano works, and it can be had for as little as $20 (inc. shipping).

[ASIN]B005NKS2TS[/ASIN]

(I will also mention this in the "Stuff I am thinking of buying" thread.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 01, 2012, 04:01:42 AM
Never heard any of it, though such a box strikes me as a worthwhile risk at that price-point.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 01, 2012, 04:08:28 AM
In fact, that one practically belongs on The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread. : )
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 01, 2012, 04:15:27 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 01, 2012, 04:01:42 AM
Never heard any of it, though such a box strikes me as a worthwhile risk at that price-point.

I only know of it from the Hurwitzer's negative reviews of the symphonies (although he liked much of the "filler"--and it might be worth the price just for those short works--only 13 bucks! from a couple of Amazon sellers).

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 01, 2012, 04:24:40 AM
My thought exactly, Sarge! For $16, perfectly happy to fetch in such an abundance of Nielsen filler!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on May 10, 2012, 01:29:18 AM
Listening now to Bostock conducting the 1st symphony. I must say, this sounds so much more "right" than Blomstedt EMI, Schmidt or - dare I say it - Jensen. And the sound is lovely! Hopefully I have got my hands on what Hurwitz would call a "sleeper" :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 10, 2012, 01:54:54 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 10, 2012, 01:29:18 AM
Listening now to Bostock conducting the 1st symphony. I must say, this sounds so much more "right" than Blomstedt EMI, Schmidt or - dare I say it - Jensen. And the sound is lovely! Hopefully I have got my hands on what Hurwitz would call a "sleeper" :)

I've heard two discs (the one with the Third and Fourth; and the one with the Flute Concerto) and my reaction is the same as yours. Loved both. Here's what I wrote in the Listening thread, a reply to Karl:

Good news, Karl. The two symphonies I've heard so far, Espansiva and Inextinguishable, are quite good...well, different anyway, and to me, different often means good 

As sometimes happens, what the Hurwitzer considers a negative, I consider a positive. This for example:

"His hasty accelerando over the powerful repeated chords leads to a main tempo that is apparently too fast for the orchestra to negotiate successfully. Consequently, the remainder of the movement is riddled with blurred articulation, hesitant entrances and insecure rhythms."

I didn't hear it that way. What I heard was a fascinating new way to play those opening chords. Something shockingly different. Yeah, the chords become a bit blurred as the acceleration reaches an insane pace, but man, does that launch the Allegro in a thrilling fashion. Too fast for a desert island pick or a library choice, maybe, but great fun to hear. Bostock has to brake pretty hard for the second subject but I like the extreme contrast. Gramophone noticed a lack of body in the strings and that too is a negative that I can turn into a positive: the strings don't swamp the rest of the orchestra (like in some Espansivas I know); there is great clarity in the other sections of the orchestra, especially the brass, which really pack a punch. The climax of the development, that fantastic waltz, is almost as good as Bernstein's or Kuchar's (even though at Bostock's tempo it would create chaos on the ballroom floor  ;D ). Both Andantes are on the CD: the original with soprano and tenor, and Nielsen's alternative orchestration for clarinet and trombone. That should interest you! I thought the tempo for the Finale utterly perfect.

So, 13 bucks already well spent, and I've only heard the first CD of ten

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 10, 2012, 03:05:30 AM
Quote from: starrynight on April 26, 2012, 01:55:58 AM
Just my opinion but the problem with posting images alone with things is that the links eventually won't work and they won't convey any information at all.  Just a personal annoyance of mine.  :D


Quote from: Scion7 on April 26, 2012, 02:35:07 AM
(http://youknowyoucare.com/wp-content/gallery/queen/queen_elizabeth_ii.jpg)

So this was meant to be the missing link?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on May 10, 2012, 06:31:21 PM
Just after my last post, I did worry that I may have been premature. Yep... I still haven't found the performances to convince me of these works, particularly 4 and 5. Next is a toss-up between Kuchar and Rozhdestvensky.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 15, 2012, 06:06:02 AM
I do not deny that the Sixth Symphony is somewhat enigmatic.  And yet, I've always liked it.

That said, one net result of those two proposals is, that I like the piece better with each hearing.  The theme and variations final movement is perhaps his most outrageous touch.  I am not sure just which I like better: the spare, almost Shostakovichian snare drum / xylophone / triangle / tuba variation, or the incongruously festive brass fanfare which breaks it up.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 15, 2012, 06:26:20 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 10, 2012, 06:31:21 PM
Just after my last post, I did worry that I may have been premature. Yep... I still haven't found the performances to convince me of these works, particularly 4 and 5. Next is a toss-up between Kuchar and Rozhdestvensky.

The Fourth (the favorite of so many) didn't click with me for many, many years even though I tried all the recommended versions. It was the "unrecommended" Salonen that finally did it for me. Have you tried Bernstein's Fifth? If that doesn't convince you, you probably can't be convinced  ;D

Of course there is the possibility that you simply don't like the symphonies of Nielsen. I have nine cycles. If I only had one, and that one being my least favorite, I would still love the music. Even a bad performance wouldn't change that. That you remain unconvinced, even after so many attempts, says something, I think.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 15, 2012, 06:42:56 AM
I'm not sure why The Four Temperaments was an early "least fave" of the six.  Now, I still probably like most of the others better, arguably, but I've at last reached a place where I can let the second of the six be itself ; )
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 15, 2012, 06:57:22 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on April 30, 2012, 05:38:19 PM
Listening to a bit more Nielsen. I find it helps me to think of him as proto-Shostakovich - certainly for the late symphonies and clarinet concerto.


I have a question for the panel!

What do we think of Bostock's cycle? I understand that no-one considers it a first choice, but the Third Ear guide rates him well ahead of Schonwandt (much loved of MI and Classics Today).

I ask because I've discovered the set below, which includes not only the symphonies but also the concertos and major orchestral works, songs and some piano works, and it can be had for as little as $20 (inc. shipping).

[ASIN]B005NKS2TS[/ASIN]

(I will also mention this in the "Stuff I am thinking of buying" thread.)

I only just got my feet wet, so to speak, with this set yesterday, with the admittedly modest, yet (as I find it) curiously touching Paraphrase on "Nearer, My God, to Thee". Not surprisingly, just from the composer's piece, I picked up on the fact that the piece is meant as a reference to the Titanic . . . that fact, plus its being for wind band, a sound which plays upon the faint strings of early musical memory for me, has pried this miniature right in amongst me.

Quote from: Foreword to the Carl Nielsen EditionOn 14 April 1912 the Titanic sank in the North Atlantic after hitting an iceberg. The news shook the world, and the tale of how the ship's small eight-member band played the hymn Nearer my God to Thee as the vessel sank went all around the globe. The Copenhagen Orchestral Society (Københavns Orkesterforening) quickly decided to mount a benefit concert for the families of the drowned musicians, and Nielsen agreed to compose a paraphrase of Nearer my God to Thee and to conduct the concert. He drew up a short score in pencil with a few indications for the instrumentation, which he then left to Julius Reesen to carry out. It is evident from the score that it was finished on 18 May. The concert should have taken place on 21 May in the old railway hall in Copenhagen, which the Falck emergency service had promised to convert for the occasion into a brand new concert hall, but the concert was cancelled because of the sudden death of King Frederik VIII on 14 May. At first the plan was simply to postpone the concert for about ten days, but afterwards the whole enterprise was shelved until further notice.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 15, 2012, 09:10:15 AM
Has anyone heard the g minor viola quintet (FS5)? Very early work, 1888 . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 01:03:11 PM
I recently purchased this set:

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Nov02/Nielsen_Jarvi.jpg)

I'm really, really looking forward to hearing these performances as this set has been under my radar for quite some time. It will be nice to have all of the concerti together as well. I've heard nothing but good things about these performances from Chung/Jarvi. Will this become my preferred cycle? Who knows.

Nielsen cycles I already own:

Blomstedt - Decca
Schonwandt - Dacapo
Kuchar - Brilliant Classics
Rozhdestvensky - Chandos
Salonen - Sony
Vanksa - BIS
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on May 15, 2012, 01:16:09 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 15, 2012, 09:10:15 AM
Has anyone heard the g minor viola quintet (FS5)? Very early work, 1888 . . . .
I'm waiting for the Danacord box where this is included. Shipped from europadisc in the UK today. :D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: madaboutmahler on May 15, 2012, 01:29:04 PM
I shall be getting this as soon as possible!

[asin]B000M2DNQY[/asin]

My Nielsen collection is rather small, which is surprising considering that he is one of my favourite composers. So I am very keen to expand it.... and this recording has been recommended to me many times now! So I must get! :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: madaboutmahler on May 15, 2012, 01:31:09 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 01:03:11 PM
Salonen - Sony
Vanksa - BIS

What are these two like, John?

And, I do hope you enjoy the Chung! I remember now hearing an excerpt from his 5th, to be specific, it was the fugue from the finale, which sounded particularly excellent. I'd be interested to know what the whole set overall is like! :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on May 15, 2012, 01:39:12 PM
Quote from: madaboutmahler on May 15, 2012, 01:29:04 PM
I shall be getting this as soon as possible!

[asin]B000M2DNQY[/asin]

My Nielsen collection is rather small, which is surprising considering that he is one of my favourite composers. So I am very keen to expand it.... and this recording has been recommended to me many times now! So I must get! :)
Buy the same box as Karl Henning. For the price of two discs you get this + 5 others.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 02:57:51 PM
Quote from: madaboutmahler on May 15, 2012, 01:31:09 PM
What are these two like, John?

And, I do hope you enjoy the Chung! I remember now hearing an excerpt from his 5th, to be specific, it was the fugue from the finale, which sounded particularly excellent. I'd be interested to know what the whole set overall is like! :)

I liked the Salonen, disliked the Vanska. I can't remember the specifics of why I disliked the Vanska, but it seemed to me the performances weren't that energetic at all. The sound quality was also not as good as some of BIS' other productions, which, to me, was pretty surprising and disappointing.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 02:59:04 PM
Looks like the Gilbert Nielsen cycle is in full-swing now:

[asin]B007VH6HHU[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 03:02:32 PM
Quote from: madaboutmahler on May 15, 2012, 01:29:04 PM
I shall be getting this as soon as possible!

[asin]B000M2DNQY[/asin]

My Nielsen collection is rather small, which is surprising considering that he is one of my favourite composers. So I am very keen to expand it.... and this recording has been recommended to me many times now! So I must get! :)

Like Erato mentioned, you might as well buy the Dacapo Nielsen box set now. You'll not only have this Dausgaard recording, but also Schonwandt's fine Nielsen symphony cycle (on 4 CDs and 2 DVDs). If I had known Dacapo was coming out with this box set, I would have bought it instead of buying all the recordings individually. Now, you have the advantage of buying the box set.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on May 16, 2012, 01:50:38 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 15, 2012, 06:26:20 AMOf course there is the possibility that you simply don't like the symphonies of Nielsen. I have nine cycles. If I only had one, and that one being my least favorite, I would still love the music. Even a bad performance wouldn't change that. That you remain unconvinced, even after so many attempts, says something, I think.

That is the conclusion I have reached for the moment, I'm afraid. I listened through most of the Bostock box yesterday, becoming more and more irritated. Too much coffee didn't help, and Bostock may be partly to blame, but my current impression is that even in his inventive late stage I find Nielsen mostly dull and provincial. He has a small soul!  I'll try again in a couple of years....
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 16, 2012, 01:58:08 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 16, 2012, 01:50:38 AM....but my current impression is that even in his inventive late stage I find Nielsen mostly dull and provincial. He has a small soul!

Harsh!

But if that's the way you feel, yes, no point spending more money in a futile attempt to hear what the rest of us hear. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 16, 2012, 02:17:14 AM
Quote from: The new erato on May 15, 2012, 01:16:09 PM
I'm waiting for the Danacord box where this is included. Shipped from europadisc in the UK today. :D

Of course! I should have guessed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 16, 2012, 04:33:21 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 16, 2012, 01:50:38 AM
. . . but my current impression is that even in his inventive late stage I find Nielsen mostly dull and provincial.

Well, along with Sarge, I am well content to give you space, and you've certainly made effort.

But on the lines of Benedick's Postulate (Doth not the appetite alter?) . . . at some point, try not by assaying the whole box, but with, say, the Clarinet Concerto (a piece to which I hardly think the descriptors dull or soulless gain any purchase), whcih is particularly good in the Bostock box.

How I think of Nielsen is a little bit like:  If you took Bartók, and removed the paprika and the tendency to Romanticism, and substituted some of Ravel's Swiss watch-making and some salted herring . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: snyprrr on May 16, 2012, 07:27:15 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 16, 2012, 04:33:21 AM

How I think of Nielsen is a little bit like:  If you took Bartók, and removed the paprika and the tendency to Romanticism, and substituted some of Ravel's Swiss watch-making and some salted herring . . . .[/font]

good one
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 16, 2012, 07:28:31 AM
The First Symphony, now . . . if Nielsen had been a one-symphony composer, and this one was it, I probably should not think nearly so highly of him. Or, if he'd written (say) four symphonies, and this was his peak.

But for the first of a set of six: what a jaw-droppingly strong piece!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on May 16, 2012, 07:38:20 AM
So favorite cycle now?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2012, 07:42:28 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 16, 2012, 07:28:31 AM
The First Symphony, now . . . if Nielsen had been a one-symphony composer, and this one was it, I probably should not think nearly so highly of him. Or, if he'd written (say) four symphonies, and this was his peak.

But for the first of a set of six: what a jaw-droppingly strong piece!

Yeah, I remember Symphony No. 1 being very good for a first symphony. I think Nielsen was 22 or 23 years old when he composed it. I'm getting a kick out of Nielsen's non-symphonic works too like Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands, Helios Overture, Pan and Syrinx, the concerti, and Saga-drom. What cool works. When my Chung set arrives, I'm definitely going to be in a Nielsen phase.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2012, 07:43:23 AM
Quote from: DavidW on May 16, 2012, 07:38:20 AM
So favorite cycle now?

Don't know if you're talking to me, but, right now, mine are Blomstedt (Decca) and Schonwandt.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 16, 2012, 07:44:52 AM
Quote from: DavidW on May 16, 2012, 07:38:20 AM
So favorite cycle now?

The front rank is stiff with good ones! I've not yet finished my first survey through the Schønwandt, but that box is close to obligatory.  My ears' fondness for Blomstedt/SFSO and Thomson/RSO is undimmed.  Schmidt/LSO is not far behind.  I've not yet dug into the Bostock symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 16, 2012, 07:52:21 AM
Quote from: DavidW on May 16, 2012, 07:38:20 AM
So favorite cycle now?

Bernstein/Ormandy on the strength of their 2, 3, 5, and 6, followed by Kuchar and Schmidt. I have nine cycles. Haven't heard much of Chung/Järvi and none of Thomson's.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2012, 07:52:42 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 16, 2012, 01:50:38 AM
That is the conclusion I have reached for the moment, I'm afraid. I listened through most of the Bostock box yesterday, becoming more and more irritated. Too much coffee didn't help, and Bostock may be partly to blame, but my current impression is that even in his inventive late stage I find Nielsen mostly dull and provincial. He has a small soul!  I'll try again in a couple of years....

One of the things I admire about Nielsen, besides the inventiveness of his melodies, harmonies, and rhythms,  is how structurally sound his music is. One wrong or misplaced note and the whole structure is screwed up! I admire his sense of 'symphonic architecture' for lack of a better term. If you don't care for his music, then nobody can really help you. Don't worry I've had the same reaction with a lot of composers most notably Holmboe and Weinberg. Their music does absolutely nothing for me. Nielsen was also known for his 'progressive tonality' which means starting in one key and ending in another if I can summarize it. This is why every symphony after the first isn't given a key. Anyway, he's a fascinating composer and one that I always end up returning to time and time again.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on May 16, 2012, 08:04:12 AM
Chung is very good in Symphonies 2 & 3, my preferred recordings of those.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2012, 08:14:51 AM
Quote from: DieNacht on May 16, 2012, 08:04:12 AM
Chung is very good in Symphonies 2 & 3, my preferred recordings of those.

I'm looking forward to hearing these. I've heard nothing but good things about all of Chung's Nielsen performances.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 16, 2012, 08:23:08 AM
Quote from: DieNacht on May 16, 2012, 08:04:12 AM
Chung is very good in Symphonies 2 & 3, my preferred recordings of those.

Agree about 3 (the only one I've heard). It doesn't quite displace my favorites but it's definitely a great Espansiva.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on May 16, 2012, 09:00:54 AM
QuoteChung is very good in Symphonies 2 & 3, my preferred recordings of those.

In 2, there is of course also Morton Gould 8) but the slow movement with Chung for instance is great.
In 3, I like the monumental broadness of Chung.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2012, 09:06:25 AM
This recording looks interesting and it's one I've been looking at for years:

[asin]B000EHQ8BO[/asin]

But the question is: how are the performances?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on May 16, 2012, 09:11:42 AM
Both are really great and unusually passionate, quite unmissable, but one needs broader versions of the works as well (especially the 1st movement of the 4th Symphony and the slow of the 2nd, IMO).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: madaboutmahler on May 16, 2012, 09:45:27 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 02:57:51 PM
I liked the Salonen, disliked the Vanska. I can't remember the specifics of why I disliked the Vanska, but it seemed to me the performances weren't that energetic at all. The sound quality was also not as good as some of BIS' other productions, which, to me, was pretty surprising and disappointing.

Sounds the complete opposite to what I have heard of his Sibelius cycle then! Thanks for the feedback, John. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 02:59:04 PM
Looks like the Gilbert Nielsen cycle is in full-swing now:

[asin]B007VH6HHU[/asin]

Heard about this cycle last summer, looks exciting!

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2012, 03:02:32 PM
Like Erato mentioned, you might as well buy the Dacapo Nielsen box set now. You'll not only have this Dausgaard recording, but also Schonwandt's fine Nielsen symphony cycle (on 3 CDs and 2 DVDs). If I had known Dacapo was coming out with this box set, I would have bought it instead of buying all the recordings individually. Now, you have the advantage of buying the box set.

I would love to own that set, as I also want those Schonwandt symphony recordings. As it's a little more expensive, I might have to wait a little longer.....

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: madaboutmahler on May 16, 2012, 09:46:49 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2012, 07:42:28 AM
Yeah, I remember Symphony No. 1 being very good for a first symphony. I think Nielsen was 22 or 23 years old when he composed it. I'm getting a kick out of Nielsen's non-symphonic works too like Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands, Helios Overture, Pan and Syrinx, the concerti, and Saga-drom. What cool works. When my Chung set arrives, I'm definitely going to be in a Nielsen phase.

I have always loved the 1st symphony too, an extremely enjoyable piece.

Oh, I love those non-symphonic pieces you mention too. They show exactly how imaginative a composer Nielsen was. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 16, 2012, 01:16:53 PM
I haven't listened to Nielsen much lately, in fact I think it has been years since I listened to the symphonies.  ??? I did listen to his String Quartets some time ago.

Nothing wrong with Carl Nielsen (one of my favorite composers). There is just so much music to listen to and so little time for it. Tangerine Dream, King Crimson and Carly Simon have "robbed" a lot listening time from other music!

Nielsen's violin, clarinet and flute concertos could be nice works to re-visit in the near future...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: eyeresist on May 16, 2012, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 16, 2012, 04:33:21 AMBut on the lines of Benedick's Postulate (Doth not the appetite alter?) . . . at some point, try not by assaying the whole box, but with, say, the Clarinet Concerto (a piece to which I hardly think the descriptors dull or soulless gain any purchase), whcih is particularly good in the Bostock box.

I certainly will return to Nielsen at some point, but in the meantime - there's Hartmann!

So I'll see you fellows in a couple of years....


* Receding footsteps. Door opens and shuts. Silence. *
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on May 17, 2012, 12:09:26 AM
QuoteChung is very good in Symphonies 2 & 3, my preferred recordings of those.

Re-heard the Nielsen 2nd with Chung and Morton Gould. I must say that Gould is now my favourite, but that the "Andante Malincolico" should be slower at times, IMO. 

Chung in the 3rd "Espansiva" however remains my favourite, a monumental and broad reading, yet with plenty of drive and sense of line, with great sound and playing. He has also recorded a very good "Aladdin"-suite and a great Clarinet Concerto with Schill.



Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 17, 2012, 05:34:47 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on May 16, 2012, 07:25:14 PM
I certainly will return to Nielsen at some point, but in the meantime - there's Hartmann!

Hartmann? I'm in! (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9.msg630115.html#msg630115)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 17, 2012, 05:47:50 AM
Quote from: DieNacht on May 17, 2012, 12:09:26 AM
Chung in the 3rd "Espansiva" however remains my favourite, a monumental and broad reading, yet with plenty of drive and sense of line, with great sound and playing. He has also recorded a very good "Aladdin"-suite and a great Clarinet Concerto with Schill.

I'll have to give Chung a listen...it's been a few years.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 01, 2012, 11:05:01 AM
TTT
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on June 02, 2012, 01:40:41 AM
I might be wrong, but there hasn´t been much discussion of the piano works here, has there ?

The "Chaconne" for instance is a fine work, and performances are very different from each other; the "Symphonic Suite", "Theme and Variations", and "Humoresque Bagatelles" are likewise fine, whereas I haven´t digged much into the late "3 Piano Pieces" yet, apparently some of his most experimental works ...

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on June 03, 2012, 07:42:29 AM
Quote from: DieNacht on June 02, 2012, 01:40:41 AM
I might be wrong, but there hasn´t been much discussion of the piano works here, has there ?

The "Chaconne" for instance is a fine work, and performances are very different from each other; the "Symphonic Suite", "Theme and Variations", and "Humoresque Bagatelles" are likewise fine, whereas I haven´t digged much into the late "3 Piano Pieces" yet, apparently some of his most experimental works ...
The Andsnes disc of solo piano works is essential listening as far as I'm concerned (particularly for the "Lucifer-Suite" and the late Three Piano Pieces). Also on this disc are the Chaconne and some early works. I'm in the dark as to the best recording of the Theme and Variations, though (I've been at least vaguely interested by Roscoe on Hyperion and the reiussed Koppel in the new DaCapo box set). I don't think the Naxos recordings with Peter Seivewright can be regarded as competitive, though.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 04, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
Hm, I know I've got a disc of piano works at home, not sure who the pianist is.

Nor have I yet gotten to the piano discs in The Masterworks, Vol. 2 box — a stunner so far (I inhaled the vn-&-pf and vn solo disc, and just started in on the string quartets).

When I pre-ordered Vol. 2, the price was $28.82, which had been perfectly fair.  In the event, I was charged $14.50 for the box — and since the pre-order price qualified for the free shipping, Amazon honored that.

What the performances in this box demonstrate, is that Nielsen was an artist somewhat in the technical mold of Brahms — I mean, that even his earliest works (allowing for the fact that the first quartet [FS4] underwent some revision a decade after originally composed, and was subsequently published as his Op.13 [the second quartet had been published as Op.5]) show not merely assurance, but mastery.  It is exciting to hear the players treat this music as 'seriously' as the later oeuvre.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Leon on June 04, 2012, 11:39:59 AM
Quote from: edward on June 03, 2012, 07:42:29 AM
The Andsnes disc of solo piano works is essential listening as far as I'm concerned (particularly for the "Lucifer-Suite" and the late Three Piano Pieces). Also on this disc are the Chaconne and some early works. I'm in the dark as to the best recording of the Theme and Variations, though (I've been at least vaguely interested by Roscoe on Hyperion and the reiussed Koppel in the new DaCapo box set). I don't think the Naxos recordings with Peter Seivewright can be regarded as competitive, though.

There are several complete recordings of the piano music on Spotify - one by Christina Bjorkoe, another one by Elizabeth Westenholz, a third by Anne Oland, and the one  by Herman Koppel.

I plan on listening to works from these four sets.

:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: nico1616 on June 04, 2012, 02:01:22 PM
As much as I would like to be enthousiastic about Nielsen, I can not find the key to his music. I have tried some movements of his symphonies (Blomstedt's 5th and 6th on Decca), but I can not get a grip on the overall structure. The music seems so fragmented, and I can not find any big tune nor an attractive melodic figure.
Loving the symphonies of Sibelius, I had always thought Nielson could be something for me. Or are there no similarities whatsoever between the two composers?

Any recommendation where I should start, my preference would be a symphony. Which of them is the most accessible for a newbie?

Thanks in advance,
Nico
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 04, 2012, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: nico1616 on June 04, 2012, 02:01:22 PM
As much as I would like to be enthousiastic about Nielsen, I can not find the key to his music. I have tried some movements of his symphonies (Blomstedt's 5th and 6th on Decca), but I can not get a grip on the overall structure. The music seems so fragmented, and I can not find any big tune nor an attractive melodic figure.
Loving the symphonies of Sibelius, I had always thought Nielson could be something for me. Or are there no similarities whatsoever between the two composers?

Any recommendation where I should start, my preference would be a symphony. Which of them is the most accessible for a newbie?

Thanks in advance,
Nico

I don't think Nielsen is all too difficult to understand. I guess it's all a matter of if you're in-tune with his overall aesthetic or not. I would start with Symphony No. 2 "The Four Temperaments" or Symphony No. 4 "The Inextinguishable". I like all of Nielsen's symphonies, but these seem like approachable works for the newcomer. Also, the Violin Concerto and Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands are great places to start. I don't think Nielsen and Sibelius share that many similarities, but then again these are the same people lump Bruckner with Mahler or Debussy with Ravel. These composers couldn't be any more different from the other.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 05, 2012, 06:08:46 AM
Nico, you've got me a bit confused: I find attractive melody a-plenty in all of Nielsen's work!

But in a sense you are certainly right:  he isn't a Big Tune guy in the way that either Sibelius or Rakhmaninov is; he is more a Motive-and-Unfolding-Development composer, more like Beethoven or (better) Brahms.

Have you tried the Fourh Symphony, Det uudslukkelige?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 05, 2012, 06:13:35 AM
Quote from: edward on June 03, 2012, 07:42:29 AM
The Andsnes disc of solo piano works is essential listening as far as I'm concerned (particularly for the "Lucifer-Suite" and the late Three Piano Pieces). Also on this disc are the Chaconne and some early works.

My disc at home is Enid Katahn (http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Nielsen-Music-Solo-Piano/dp/B00005YO28/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1338905421&sr=1-1-catcorr):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/610ElEkAcuL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

A bit annoying that the CD is just six tracks: one big track for (e.g.) the Theme & Variations, Op.40.

Andsnes is certainly a ready temptation . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on June 05, 2012, 09:39:18 AM
Quote from: nico1616 on June 04, 2012, 02:01:22 PM
Loving the symphonies of Sibelius, I had always thought Nielson could be something for me. Or are there no similarities whatsoever between the two composers?

To me Nielsen and Sibelius are quite different composers. Nielsen's Helios Overture, Op. 17 is perhaps a bit Sibelius-like...

Quote from: nico1616 on June 04, 2012, 02:01:22 PMAny recommendation where I should start, my preference would be a symphony. Which of them is the most accessible for a newbie?

Hard to know what you find accessible but number 4 is my favorite of Nielsen's symphonies and the first one I heard. My jaw dropped on the floor when I heard it.

Number 2 recommended by Mirror Image is a good starting point too but number 4 is a better symphony.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 05, 2012, 10:50:48 AM
I probably need a Nielsen opera fête.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 05, 2012, 10:52:29 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on June 05, 2012, 09:39:18 AM
Number 2 recommended by Mirror Image is a good starting point too but number 4 is a better symphony.

FWIW, I took to N° 4 right away; it was a while before I really warmed to N° 2.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on June 05, 2012, 11:08:34 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 05, 2012, 10:50:48 AM
I probably need a Nielsen opera fête.
If you haven't heard them, ou do. They are both very fine - and totally Nielsenesque.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: nico1616 on June 05, 2012, 01:07:50 PM
Thanks for all the information and recommendations  :)
I will go for symphony n°4. conducted by Bernstein as it is included in my 60cd symphony boxset.

I will let you know if I get it this time :D


Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 05, 2012, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: nico1616 on June 05, 2012, 01:07:50 PM
Thanks for all the information and recommendations  :)
I will go for symphony n°4. conducted by Bernstein as it is included in my 60cd symphony boxset.

I will let you know if I get it this time :D

Since you have that Bernstein symphony set, listen to his other Nielsen symphony performances. He did the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. All exemplary performances.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 06, 2012, 09:12:44 AM
Quote from: Arnold on June 04, 2012, 11:39:59 AM
There are several complete recordings of the piano music on Spotify - one by Christina Bjorkoe, another one by Elizabeth Westenholz, a third by Anne Oland, and the one  by Herman Koppel.

Koppel is the one included in this box:

[asin]B007N0SVDS[/asin]

I listened yesterday to Enid Katahn (http://www.amazon.com/Carl-Nielsen-Music-Solo-Piano/dp/B00005YO28/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1338905421&sr=1-1-catcorr), and was enchanted. What took me so long to listen to this disc?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/610ElEkAcuL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I had meant to listen to Koppel to-day, for comparison . . . only it has become a Dvořák day for me . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 06, 2012, 12:26:45 PM
Must say that my impression of Koppel in the Th & Vars, Op.40 is, that he plays it rather stiff and mannered, compared to the at times delicate, and always lyrical account that Katahn gives out.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: nico1616 on June 06, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 05, 2012, 01:19:57 PM
Since you have that Bernstein symphony set, listen to his other Nielsen symphony performances. He did the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. All exemplary performances.

I will certainly do that! Until now I only explored the Beethoven and Mahler symphonies in that Bernstein box set.
My first listenings to Nielsen's 4th leave a very positive impression, certain passages remind me of the interludes in Britten's Peter Grimes, which I love.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 06, 2012, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: nico1616 on June 06, 2012, 01:48:37 PM
I will certainly do that! Until now I only explored the Beethoven and Mahler symphonies in that Bernstein box set.
My first listenings to Nielsen's 4th leave a very positive impression, certain passages remind me of the interludes in Britten's Peter Grimes, which I love.

Good to hear, Nico. My suggestion is keep on listening. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 08, 2012, 06:14:00 AM
Overall, my only complaint with the piano music is, that there is so little of it.

Some of it is, necessarily, teaching music, or trifling, or just plain early; but the best of it is rich and masterly.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on June 08, 2012, 07:21:06 AM
I agree about the Koppel Dacapo set of the piano works being not among the best. There are some earlier recordings by Koppel from his younger years too, and they might be better, though sonically poor; it´s been a long time since I heard a bit of those, and my taste is no doubt different now. Koppel studied briefly with Nielsen.

Am giving an old LP with Ogdon a listen, from 1968 and apparently not released on CD (?). The sound is very good, and he has managed to put 4 of the 5 most important works on just one LP.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqZHJCEE63(UScHEBO3YpBQ,+Q~~60_35.JPG)

He has plenty of ideas in the Suite op.45 which is very fine, varied and quite modernistic in Ogdon´s version. As a pianist, he can be too hard-punching now and then (as heard in Liszt IMO), but not here, where he is being poetic and enigmatic. The Finale could be a bit faster perhaps. In the Chaconne op.32, he lacks the hypnotic and melodical intensity found in some other recordings, IMO. The Suite op.8 and the late 3 Piano Pieces next ...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on June 08, 2012, 10:40:59 PM
(http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/043/Music/34/60/35/mzi.mcypjwkq.170x170-75.jpg)

This is a fine release by the sprawling, unpredictable Classico label, "Carl Nielsens Lys" / "The Light of Carl Nielsen". Here they can often be found on sales at very modest prices & I can heartily recommend it. Allegedly the pianist, Tomoko Takanashi, travelled to Odense in Denmark from Japan to study Nielsen, and she has since then made a career as a performer of contemporary musc. The programme is varied and includes some Ruders, Abrahamsen (whose 7 studies have since been expanded as a set), and the lesser known Rovsing Olsen.
By Nielsen there is a superb Chaconne, one of the absolutely best I´ve heard, very idiomatic yet emotional. It only lasts 9:30 as opposed to Ogdon´s 10:15. Also the 3 Piano Pieces show a lot of technical surplus from the pianist, making the music even more interesting and structured.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on June 09, 2012, 01:38:01 AM
(http://www.shugarecords.com/images/products/large/21a2daa0-92d7-4683-8e2a-b28908286c99-0.JPG)

Due to a traffic accident, I have plenty of listening time ...

The old Koppel mono LP on the local Odeon label has Nielsen´s "Symphonic Suite" op.8 and the "Theme & Variations" op.40. Overall I find it quite good. Koppel´s piano playing style was often a bit sketchy, but vital (his recording of his 3rd piano Concerto on an old DMA stereo LP with Neumann/DNRSO is probably the highlight of his discography, though). In the "Theme & Variations", he is quick too; the piece lasts only 15:20. But he is able to make the piano sing, and the often swift tempi give some unusual facets to the work. In the "Symphonic Suite", his sense of momentum in such a heavy, Brahms-sounding work probably makes the work more attractive than with Ogdon.

The LP also contains "The Fog is lifting" with Gilbert Jespersen, and "2 Phantasy Pieces" for oboe and piano, with Koppel and Valdemar Wolsing, a member of the Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra who frequented a record shop I was once working in - with a distinguished, very Alec Guinness/George Smiley like appearance, buying only Schubert and Schumann LPs.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on June 10, 2012, 02:26:23 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/NIELSEN-Piano-Works-vol-1-2-ARNE-SKJOLD-RASMUSSEN-Fona-TF-115-116-Danish-2-LP-/00/s/NjgwWDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqJ,!jgE6mDoy!InBOvl9JCGGw~~60_35.JPG)

The Skjold Rasmussen LP set (1968) was for long the only "complete piano works" set and was widely recommended in various comparative reviews. The original release on the local Fona LP label (2 LPs) was supplemented with a Vox Box release on 3 LPs; perhaps the sound is a bit more spacious there. Generally, the sound lacks some subtlety if compared to later recordings, but Skjold Rasmussen (1921-1980) plays in a thoughtful and often nuanced way, more interesting than I remember from my hearings long time ago.

(http://www.lpcorner.com/img/p/1/5/4/0/1540-thickbox.jpg)

(http://www.lpcorner.com/img/p/1/5/4/2/1542-thickbox.jpg)

The decca 2LP set with the complete piano works played by the composer-pianist John McCabe (1975) is my overall favourite among the versions I know. The lovely photos are from the "Den Gamle By" open-air-museum in Århus. The piano sound is better than with Skjold Rasmussen, and McCabe has a lot to say, both s regards lyricism, humour ("Humoresque Bagatelles") and dramatic contrasts. The set also includes the charming, tiny "Dance of the Lady´s Maidens" (1910) for piano. I find it strange that such a good version hasn´t been released on CD (?), also considering Nielsen´s relative popularity in Great Britain. There´s a fine article on McCabe at music-web also referring to his Nielsen experiences:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2009/Jul-Dec09/mccabe_interview.htm

(...I discovered Nielsen because I used to go and stay with an Uncle and some cousins (...) He had some LPs and one of them was a 10" Decca LP of Nielsen's Chaconne (...) ... played by France Ellegaard on DECCA LW 5051 – recorded in June 1953 (...). ... I played the Chaconne and I was hooked. Chaconne's a great piece, I played it again this year. I did it for my degree, against protests from the authorities, who wanted a romantic piano piece. What they meant was a Chopin Ballade, or something like that, but I always said that I wanted to do the Nielsen. My piano teacher, Gordon Green, borrowed my copy for a week and said "Yes, I think this would suit you, and be good for you, and I'll support you". He learned it in that week, not well enough to perform it but he understood it and that's a great teacher. He just didn't rely on the stuff that was already known, as a lot of them do.")


I haven´t heard Øland´s set; she may have produced some good recordings, but everything I´ve heard with her I found very uninspired; Seivewright on naxos generally had poor reviews. Bjørkøe is one of the best and most ambitious among the younger Danish pianists and better than Gislinge IMO. I haven´t heard Martin Roscoe or Nina Miller either, and the above-mentioned Enid Katahn was even totally unknown to me. I do have Andsnes and will give it a spin later on.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on June 10, 2012, 08:24:25 AM
From what I've heard of McCabe--another of those underrated British pianists--as performer, I'm not surprised he'd be your favourite integrale. It's a great shame that it's not available on CD.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DieNacht on June 10, 2012, 09:09:08 AM
It turns out that some Ogdon and Skjold Rasmussen is on you-tube, among others.

Should someone find merits in other recordings - including Øland - it would be interesting to hear.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on June 25, 2012, 04:22:40 AM
Interesting views on the Nielsen 3rd:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/re-thinking-nielsen%E2%80%99s-centennial-symphony?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=GRAM%20ENews%20Bulletin%20(25.06.2012)&utm_content=article8_headline (http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/re-thinking-nielsen%E2%80%99s-centennial-symphony?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=GRAM%20ENews%20Bulletin%20(25.06.2012)&utm_content=article8_headline)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Superhorn on June 26, 2012, 06:49:57 AM
    I got to know the piano music of Nielsen long ago  on a Vox  LP set by  a now  obscure  Danish pianist by the name of
Arne Skjold Rasmussen , who knew and worked with the composer himself.    He appears to have been a tererific pianist
and an authoritative interpreter of his piano works.  This set should be reissued on CD as soon as possible, and if it does, grab it !
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2012, 07:27:07 AM
Quote from: The new erato on June 25, 2012, 04:22:40 AM
Interesting views on the Nielsen 3rd:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/re-thinking-nielsen%E2%80%99s-centennial-symphony?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=GRAM%20ENews%20Bulletin%20(25.06.2012)&utm_content=article8_headline (http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/re-thinking-nielsen%E2%80%99s-centennial-symphony?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=GRAM%20ENews%20Bulletin%20(25.06.2012)&utm_content=article8_headline)

Thank you for that article. I feel vindicated  ;D  It's not often I find someone who agrees with me about Blomstedt's Third. Worst interpretation I know. He just smashes his way through the first movement with no feeling.

On the other hand, I'm not of fan of Schonwandt's Third either. Salonen's not bad (and I don't know Saraste or Horenstein...didn't even realize there was a Horenstein recording although his Fifth is a favorite). The Thirds I like best are Bernstein, Kuchar, Schmidt, Frandsen and, surprisingly, Bostock. Rozhdestvensky is interesting too; massive...as if Celi or old Klemp were conducting.

Sarge
.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 26, 2012, 07:34:35 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2012, 07:27:07 AM
. . . The Thirds I like best are Bernstein, Kuchar, Schmidt, Frandsen and, surprisingly, Bostock.Sarge

But the Bostock substitutes instruments for the soli voices, yes, Sarge? (A bit strange that I've not yet visited the symphonies in this box.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2012, 07:38:39 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 26, 2012, 07:34:35 AM
But the Bostock substitutes instruments for the soli voices, yes, Sarge? (A bit strange that I've not yet visited the symphonies in this box.)

Yes and no. He gives both versions. The instrumental version is included after the last movement as a supplement and bonus.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 26, 2012, 08:55:31 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2012, 07:38:39 AM
Yes and no. He gives both versions. The instrumental version is included after the last movement as a supplement and bonus.

Sarge

Perfect! For I am curious to hear the senza voci version, and yet, felt that taking away the voices was robbery . . . . : )
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidRoss on June 28, 2012, 06:31:46 AM
A contrarian note: I like Blomstedt's 3rd and prefer it and Salonen's to Bernstein's. Lenny's much too pumped up for my tastes.

And I like Schønwandt's, too. Perhaps there's a reason "the crowd of experienced Nordic music professionals gathered at the offices of Denmark’s state broadcaster" disagreed with the Englishman Mellor's assessment, along with his friend "Mats Engström (who has actually played the piece)" -- they're Scandinavians, like Nielsen, Schønwandt, and Blomstedt (despite his American birth). What might seem underplayed to some could well seem excessive to Scandinavian sensibilities. (Fair disclosure, FWIW: one of my grandparents was Swedish, another a Dane. ;^) ).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2012, 06:48:02 AM
Quote from: DavidRoss on June 28, 2012, 06:31:46 AM
A contrarian note: I like Blomstedt's 3rd and prefer it and Salonen's to Bernstein's. Lenny's much too pumped up for my tastes.

Why am I not surprised? :D ;)

Edit: although now that I think about it, you're really not a contrarian here, David. Lenny's Espansiva isn't mentioned often by anyone but me. The author of the article ignores it. Most of the comments ignore it. In this forum Karl has spoken disparagingly of it. If I didn't know better, I would think Blomstedt is the only conductor who's done decent Nielsen in that it's so often mentioned as the best with little disagreement. You are firmly with the majority. (For the record: I like his 1, 2, and 6; 4 & 5, not so much; and really dislike 3).

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 28, 2012, 07:28:37 AM
Oh, gosh, have I heard and disparaged Lenny's Espansiva, and I forgot? Eek.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2012, 07:31:52 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 28, 2012, 07:28:37 AM
Oh, gosh, have I heard and disparaged Lenny's Espansiva

Alas, yes  :'(  You didn't like it from the get go, literally  :D : you thought the opening chords sloppily played, not in unison.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on September 28, 2012, 03:29:55 PM
Bought this one today:

[asin]B007VH6HHU[/asin]

Looks like this will be a promising Nielsen series. We need another cycle. I agree with Gilbert when he said "Nielsen isn't a household name, but should be."
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidRoss on September 29, 2012, 05:52:59 AM
Now released as a set including other orchestral music, this is a steal!

[asin]B005FF2U2Q[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidRoss on September 29, 2012, 05:55:36 AM
And this is none too shabby!

[asin]B000QCUA70[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scarpia on October 24, 2012, 10:30:52 AM

The one item I did receive in the i-Deals incident was Vanska's Nielsen cycle.  I had no idea it existed.

[asin]B004C5M2FK[/asin]

For some reason, the Amazon listing seems incomplete and gets lost in searches.  It looks like this:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_250/MI0003/120/MI0003120862.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Most of it is with the BBC, but it strikes me as being very similar in character to the Vanska Sibelus cycle.  So far I've listened to the recording of the 1st symphony, and found it very satisfying.




Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on February 18, 2013, 02:56:53 PM
All Maiden Monday Listens! (works and recordings)

Nielsen

Aladdin Suite
Symphonic Rhapsody
Overture "Helios", Op. 17
Cupid and the Poet: Orchestral Suite
Paraphrase on "Nearer, My God, To Thee"
Andante Tranquillo E Scherzo for String Orchestra


Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra

*Concerto for Flute and Orchestra
Pan and Syrinx, Op. 49
Suite for String Orchestra, Op. 1
At The Bier of A Young Artist
Bohemian-Danish Folk Songs

Rune Most, flute

Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice

Douglas Bostock, conducting

Membran Music

[asin]B005NKS2TS[/asin]

Impressions:  Outstanding.  I'm floored!  Terrific music.  And I was shocked by the loud crash about 3 minutes in "Paraphrase on 'Nearer, My God, To Thee'"  :o
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on February 18, 2013, 03:19:15 PM
Outstanding, Ray!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on February 20, 2013, 07:38:43 AM
Cor, and you're reminding me, Ray, that I've not yet listened to the symphonies from that Bostock box . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on February 20, 2013, 09:05:42 AM
Based on my recent interest in Nielsen's music, can someone send forth recommendations for Nielsen's complete string quartets?

Merci bien!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on February 20, 2013, 09:08:46 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on February 20, 2013, 09:05:42 AM
Based on my recent interest in Nielsen's music, can someone send forth recommendations for Nielsen's complete string quartets?

Merci bien!

Included in this table-pounder:

[asin]B007N0SVDS[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on February 20, 2013, 09:09:59 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on February 20, 2013, 09:08:46 AM
Included in this table-pounder:

[asin]B007N0SVDS[/asin]

Fast work, Karl.  Many thanks!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 10, 2013, 04:58:30 PM
I'm looking for a recommendation for a CD or two of Nielsen's songs. What is the best recital (in terms of which songs and best singing) available? NB must have the lyrics and translations.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: snyprrr on August 12, 2013, 05:49:27 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on February 20, 2013, 09:05:42 AM
Based on my recent interest in Nielsen's music, can someone send forth recommendations for Nielsen's complete string quartets?

Merci bien!

Too late?

Frankly, the last one is the only one that does anything for me really. Why not just start with the Oslo SQ (Naxos) Vol.1,... otherwise,... get Vol.2 also!!! 8) So,... I'm saying the Oslo SQ is the way to go... I'd pick up their Naxos of 'Norwegian String Quartets' too, which I do like better than the Nielsen (Nielsen just sounds like Haydn to me here... no offence, he just straddles that place between conservative/modern with a nod to the conservative (he's not Janacek here!!).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 12, 2013, 05:58:57 AM
Well, he needn't be Janáček, of course.

And as far as I am concerned, likening him to Haydn is essentially praise.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: snyprrr on August 12, 2013, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 12, 2013, 05:58:57 AM
Well, he needn't be Janáček, of course.

And as far as I am concerned, likening him to Haydn is essentially praise.

I kneeew you would! ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on August 12, 2013, 03:00:11 PM
I've been really digging (first listens) to some of Nielsen's solo piano music.  Terrific music!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 12, 2013, 04:13:17 PM
Quote from: ChamberNut on August 12, 2013, 03:00:11 PM
I've been really digging (first listens) to some of Nielsen's solo piano music.  Terrific music!

Yes! Especially the Chaconne.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on August 12, 2013, 10:22:10 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on August 10, 2013, 04:58:30 PM
I'm looking for a recommendation for a CD or two of Nielsen's songs. What is the best recital (in terms of which songs and best singing) available? NB must have the lyrics and translations.
There's not many. DaCapo has an Inga Nielsen (IIRC) disc that is good and very well documented. It has been seen on various sales the last years, I bought mine around 2 years ago for around 5 £ on a Danish music buying binge.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 13, 2013, 02:12:02 PM
Thanks Erato, I'll give it a try.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on June 12, 2014, 03:40:49 PM
Having me a some Nielsen!  :)

Nielsen

Aladdin Suite
Symphonic Rhapsody
Overture "Helios", Op. 17
Cupid and the Poet: Orchestral Suite
Paraphrase on "Nearer, My God, To Thee"


Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra
Douglas Bostock, conducting

Piano Music

Five Piano Pieces, Op. 17
Symphonic Suite, Op. 8
Humoresque Bagatelles, Op. 11
Festive Prelude
Drommen Om "Glade Jul"
Chaconne, Op. 32
Theme with Variations, Op. 40


Anne Oland, piano

Membran Music

[asin]B005NKS2TS[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 13, 2014, 04:49:28 AM
Excellent, Ray!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on March 19, 2015, 02:07:31 PM

I have not heard a better performance of Nielsen's 5th Symphony, arguably one of the very greatest symphonies of the 20th Symphony. In particular the climax of the first movement, with its dramatically anarchic rogue side drum, has never sounded more exciting and the resolution of the first movement has a sense of triumphant catharsis unlike any other recorded performance known to me ( and I have multiple copies of this work). The woodwind solos are beautifully realised throughout the disc and this is one of the most exciting Nielsen discs known to me. Initially I was a little underwhelmed at the start of the tragic and enigmatic 6th Symphony and I felt a lack of urgency compared to my favourite Ormandy version but as the tragic first movement developed I became increasingly moved. I think that the first movement of the Sixth Symphony is perhaps Nielsen's finest creation. In my view this symphony is worthy to stand alongside the most tragic utterances of Shostakovich. A wonderful disc, beautifully performed and recorded:
[asin]B00R3UHREM[/asin]
Orchestra is the New York Philharmonic conducted by Alan Gilbert (live performances)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on March 19, 2015, 09:31:18 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 19, 2015, 02:07:31 PM
I have not heard a better performance of Nielsen's 5th Symphony, arguably one of the very greatest symphonies of the 20th Symphony. In particular the climax of the first movement, with its dramatically anarchic rogue side drum, has never sounded more exciting and the resolution of the first movement has a sense of triumphant catharsis unlike any other recorded performance known to me ( and I have multiple copies of this work). The woodwind solos are beautifully realised throughout the disc and this is one of the most exciting Nielsen discs known to me. Initially I was a little underwhelmed at the start of the tragic and enigmatic 6th Symphony and I felt a lack of urgency compared to my favourite Ormandy version but as the tragic first movement developed I became increasingly moved. I think that the first movement of the Sixth Symphony is perhaps Nielsen's finest creation. In my view this symphony is worthy to stand alongside the most tragic utterances of Shostakovich. A wonderful disc, beautifully performed and recorded:
[asin]B00R3UHREM[/asin]
Orchestra is the New York Philharmonic conducted by Alan Gilbert (live performances)

I still have this recording sitting in the to-listen-to pile. Will definitely give it a listen this weekend. Thanks for the report. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on March 19, 2015, 11:52:03 PM
 8)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 19, 2015, 09:31:18 PM
I still have this recording sitting in the to-listen-to pile. Will definitely give it a listen this weekend. Thanks for the report. 8)

Let us know what you think John.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on June 08, 2015, 01:56:01 PM
A bump for his 150th birthday tomorrow, and a link: http://www.carlnielsen.org/en (http://www.carlnielsen.org/en) to a site including lots of pictures I'd never seen before - including one of the great man knitting!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 08, 2015, 02:52:24 PM
Thanks for the link! That's a great site.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 20, 2015, 06:14:57 PM
Nielsen:
Symphony No 4
Helios Overture

Chicago SO/Martinon


Intriguing! The Helios Overture is a graceful experience full of light and reverence so I had to listen to it twice!  :)  I think I need some more time with the 4th, but it definitely had a unique soundscape. I really liked Nielsen's vision of nature and man in relation to this work as put forward on the back cover.  Very primal!

"I have an idea for a new composition, which has no programme but will express what we understand by the spirit of life or manifestations of life, that is: everything that moves, that wants to live ... just life and motion, though varied – very varied – yet connected, and as if constantly on the move, in one big movement or stream. I must have a word or a short title to express this; that will be enough. I cannot quite explain what I want, but what I want is good." [Wikipedia]


(https://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/n/nielsen~~~~_symphony4_101b.jpg)(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/835/MI0003835538.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 20, 2015, 08:37:52 PM
I have to ask you, Peter: is this your first foray into Nielsen's music?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 20, 2015, 09:51:47 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 20, 2015, 08:37:52 PM
I have to ask you, Peter: is this your first foray into Nielsen's music?

No, but it was a year or two ago. At that point I was not very excited about it. This time I felt quite different with the 4th (and especially with the Helios Overture).  Perhaps it is extended exposure to more compositions from the 20th century? 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:04:01 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on June 20, 2015, 09:51:47 PM
No, but it was a year or two ago. At that point I was not very excited about it. This time I felt quite different with the 4th (and especially with the Helios Overture).  Perhaps it is extended exposure to more compositions from the 20th century? 8)

That's quite interesting. Nielsen was one of the first composers that I got into (along with Sibelius). In fact, I discovered Nielsen at the same time I discovered Sibelius, which I suppose is quite a natural progression as it really does seem one leads to another. They are the two top Nordic composers of their time and obviously still have quite a foothold in the musical world. Yes, I think you being more and more exposed to other 20th Century composers has allowed you to come back around to Nielsen with 'different ears.' This has happened with me on numerous occasions with Holmboe perhaps being the greatest example.

So what works of Nielsen's are you going to explore next?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 21, 2015, 06:09:29 AM
The symphonies didn't grab me the first time I listened to them.  (Same story with the RVW symphonies, FWIW.)  Years later, they clicked with me, big time.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:14:58 AM
Strange how different we all are. I took to Nielsen's symphonies pretty easily, but when it came to Sibelius I did struggle a bit at first even though nothing was ever displeasing to me. I just didn't understand his musical language yet. RVW clicked with me instantly, although I do recall having some problems with the 4th symphony.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 21, 2015, 06:22:56 AM
It's a bit of a puzzle to me, as well;  for I had played the Clarinet Concerto, so I already had a high opinion of Nielsen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:31:30 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 21, 2015, 06:22:56 AM
It's a bit of a puzzle to me, as well;  for I had played the Clarinet Concerto, so I already had a high opinion of Nielsen.

Well, his concerti are different beasts altogether. His musical language in his symphonies does take some time to sink in. Even though I mentioned I had no problems with his symphonies, the only one that through me through a loop was the 6th. Now, I think a good deal of this symphony and appreciate it even more. His symphonic swan song.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:34:52 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 19, 2015, 11:52:03 PM
8)
Let us know what you think John.  :)

Better late than never. ;) I didn't enjoy Gilbert's cycle that much. I thought many of the performances were 'forced' sounding and Gilbert really didn't make much of a difference on the podium. I felt that he simply was 'going through the motions' and didn't add anything to the music interpretatively. As for more recent cycles, Oramo is my man in Nielsen. Outstanding cycle from him.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 21, 2015, 12:01:14 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 21, 2015, 06:09:29 AM
The symphonies didn't grab me the first time I listened to them.  (Same story with the RVW symphonies, FWIW.)  Years later, they clicked with me, big time.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:04:01 AM
That's quite interesting. Nielsen was one of the first composers that I got into (along with Sibelius). In fact, I discovered Nielsen at the same time I discovered Sibelius, which I suppose is quite a natural progression as it really does seem one leads to another. They are the two top Nordic composers of their time and obviously still have quite a foothold in the musical world. Yes, I think you being more and more exposed to other 20th Century composers has allowed you to come back around to Nielsen with 'different ears.' This has happened with me on numerous occasions with Holmboe perhaps being the greatest example.

So what works of Nielsen's are you going to explore next?

I read on the Martinon back cover that Nielsen was regarded as Scandinavia's greatest composer ( ??? ??? ???) when the 4th Symphony premiered! It is hard to imagine that Sibelius was viewed as secondary (at least in my mind).  Sibelius has been in my life since I was a little kid. Finlandia impressed me greatly as a ten-year old! I listened to it over and over.  In contrast I had didn't hear about Nielsen until I was in my 30s. Somehow he seems to be a very specific niche within classical music (unless one is Danish of course).   Like Karl and yourself I noticed Nielsen years ago, but never took a liking to his works as I sampled them.  I think the 5th with its snare drum was the nail in the coffin at the time.    :'(     

I think I will dig up Bernstein's partial cycle from the Symphony box for my next few Nielsen sessions. Probably the 2nd...   :P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: jlaurson on June 22, 2015, 01:59:14 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.

Get it! I have it... I've never been moved by Nielsen like I have by Schmidt (Gilbert comes close). It's really quite amazing how the oldest cycle out there is still so darn awesome and, arguably / in some ways, the best.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 22, 2015, 01:59:14 PM
Get it! I have it... I've never been moved by Nielsen like I have by Schmidt (Gilbert comes close). It's really quite amazing how the oldest cycle out there is still so darn awesome and, arguably / in some ways, the best.

But what about the sound quality, Jens? FYI, I didn't like Gilbert's Nielsen cycle, although I haven't heard the concerti recording (yet). :) For modern cycles, Oramo is my man in these symphonies right now.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:05:19 PM
3x
Nielsen: Symphony No 1        Royal Liverpool PO/Bostock

A "relatively" first listen (i.e. I have heard it before but paid more attention this time around). I guess I should blame the recent listening activity here as well as Nielsen's birthday on June 9. The theme of the first movement really stays in the mind. Such a playful tune! The second movement has such serene and nostalgic qualities conjuring up all kinds of pastoral images and a fair amount of sadness in my mind. It builds very nicely as well. The final movement kind of falls flat in my ears. Overall, a very enjoyable and eloquent symphony well worth listening to. It made a definite impression after listening to it three times in a row. Bostock and the RLPO seem to have received mixed reviews, but I found the performance and the sound quality quite satisfying in this recording of Nielsen's first symphony.

I'm not quite sure why I haven't paid much attention to it (and Nielsen's other works). After all he is Denmark's greatest composer. When I grew up Grieg and Sibelius were always mentioned, but Nielsen's name remained in obscurity (actually - he wasn't mentioned at all  :o).  I guess I will have to make up for lost time!   8)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ib6dmbegL.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/713bxDAK1OL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:10:24 PM
Nielsen is always worth your time, Peter. As I may have mentioned to you before, Nielsen was one of the first composers I was exposed to when I was just getting into classical music six years ago. Everything I've heard from has never been less than inspired and there's always a purpose to his music. He doesn't sugarcoat anything. ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:11:12 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.

Yeah, I have been reading up on this as well and it seems like the Schmidt cycle is a must. Everybody refers to it as a core performance (it reminds me how everybody refers to Solti's Ring  ;D). Raw and archaic Nielsen Power!!!   ;)   Was the Schmidt cycle OOP for a while and just recently reissued?  I have my eyes on the Blomstedt cycle as well (with the Danish NO), which seems to be the most common recommendation.  Ah, clearly plenty to choose from. I wish Martinon recorded additional symphonies...    Regardless, would you recommend Blomstedt?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:11:12 PM
Yeah, I have been reading up on this as well and it seems like the Schmidt cycle is a must. Everybody refers to it as a core performance (it reminds me how everybody refers to Solti's Ring  ;D). Raw and archaic Nielsen Power!!!   ;)   Was the Schmidt cycle OOP for a while and just recently reissued?  I have my eyes on the Blomstedt cycle as well (with the Danish NO), which seems to be the most common recommendation.  Ah, clearly plenty to choose from. I wish Martinon recorded additional symphonies...    Regardless, would you recommend Blomstedt?

I'm still awaiting to hear more about the Ole Schmidt's cycle audio quality. Again, the overly reverberant sound has me a bit worried as this could be a hinderance for me. I like hearing clarity in a performance. Anyway, I do not own Blomstedt's Danish cycle on EMI surprisingly. I don't know why exactly I don't own it, but I suppose I liked his later San Francisco cycle so much that I always thought how could he ever possibly top it even with an earlier cycle behind him? This is the only reason why I avoided his earlier cycle I can think of and I suppose I'm not too sure about the audio quality in that Danish cycle. But if you don't own the SFSO cycle, Peter, than it receives my warmest recommendation. Not to be missed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:20:55 PM
BTW, this is a smoking performance of The Inextinguishable:

https://www.youtube.com/v/NYrCiE7U0_0

People have said plenty of negative things about Mr. Fuzzy Top (Rattle), but I think in some music, he simply is one of the best out there. Always a sensitive conductor and knows how to bring out certain musical phrases that other conductors may just glide through. This Nielsen performance is definitely a fine one.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:16:53 PM
I'm still awaiting to hear more about the Ole Schmidt's cycle audio quality. Again, the overly reverberant sound has me a bit worried as this could be a hinderance for me. I like hearing clarity in a performance. Anyway, I do not own Blomstedt's Danish cycle on EMI surprisingly. I don't know why exactly I don't own it, but I suppose I liked his later San Francisco cycle so much that I always thought how could he ever possibly top it even with an earlier cycle behind him? This is the only reason why I avoided his earlier cycle I can think of and I suppose I'm not too sure about the audio quality in that Danish cycle. But if you don't own the SFSO cycle, Peter, than it receives my warmest recommendation. Not to be missed.

Interesting! I think I read somewhere that his SFSO cycle was inferior to the Danish one.  It is kind of funny how reviews vary so much. I suspect that the SFSO certainly must have better sound.  Regardless, the ultimate test is taking it in with our own minds and not worrying too much about the gadfly reviews. 
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2015, 02:23:45 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
But what about the sound quality, Jens?

It's always dangerous discussing sound quality with you, John (remember our Slatkin/VW "debate"  ;D ) but to my ears Schmidt sounds great...well, maybe just very good. The all-important (to me) brass detail is there (if not in quite the startling clarity of Kuchar). But sound be damned: it's Schmidt's way with the music that's important. Schmidt was my first Nielsen cycle (LP boxes in the 70s) and after the acquisition of nine more cycles, it's still number one. One caveat: I have not heard Oramo yet. Schmidt may have finally been superceded.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 21, 2015, 06:34:52 AM
I didn't enjoy Gilbert's cycle that much.

Neither did I. The Third was especially disappointing.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
This one?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71dC8L1yVKL._SL1194_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: jlaurson on June 22, 2015, 02:24:49 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:02:48 PM
But what about the sound quality, Jens? FYI, I didn't like Gilbert's Nielsen cycle, although I haven't heard the concerti recording (yet). :) For modern cycles, Oramo is my man in these symphonies right now.

I can only tell you that I don't remember being let down by the SQ... and that it obviously didn't prevent this effect on me... and that it was also of a kind that made nothing negative stick out about it. But I would lie, if I could tell you that I actually recall the actual sound. (And I haven't got it handy to check just now.) But it was absolutely, absolutely ear-opening for me, despite *wanting* to love Nielsen for many years.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
This one?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71dC8L1yVKL._SL1194_.jpg)

I only like half of Blomstedt's SF cycle (1, 2, 6). Really hate his Third. But don't pay attention to me: mine's a minority opinion.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:51:14 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:22:27 PM
Interesting! I think I read somewhere that his SFSO cycle was inferior to the Danish one.  It is kind of funny how reviews vary so much. I suspect that the SFSO certainly must have better sound.  Regardless, the ultimate test is taking it in with our own minds and not worrying too much about the gadfly reviews.

I seem to recall many people preferring the SFSO cycle to the Danish one, but, yes, a great performance is something that varies from listener to listener, but every now and again, there seems to be an almost unanimous consensus on performances, but, there's always someone that doesn't like something. It's just the nature of this music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:57:25 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2015, 02:23:45 PM
It's always dangerous discussing sound quality with you, John (remember our Slatkin/VW "debate"  ;D ) but to my ears Schmidt sounds great...well, maybe just very good. The all-important (to me) brass detail is there (if not in quite the startling clarity of Kuchar). But sound be damned: it's Schmidt's way with the music that's important. Schmidt was my first Nielsen cycle (LP boxes in the 70s) and after the acquisition of nine more cycles, it's still number one. One caveat: I have not heard Oramo yet. Schmidt may have finally been superceded.

Neither did I. The Third was especially disappointing.

Sarge

Stop everything. Quit rolling the tape. The Sarge and I agree on something?!?!? Holy shit! There's an imbalance in the universe. ;) ;D But seriously, it seems you, Jeffrey Smith, and myself are in full agreement about Gilbert's Nielsen so far. I wonder if we can form a club or something? :) Anyway, thanks for your feedback regarding the Schmidt cycle (Jens too).  Much appreciated. Sounds like a cycle I'll need. IMHO, Oramo is outstanding and very much closer to what I feel is the spirit of this music. I would try the recording with Symphonies 1 & 3 first.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:58:20 PM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 22, 2015, 02:24:49 PM
I can only tell you that I don't remember being let down by the SQ... and that it obviously didn't prevent this effect on me... and that it was also of a kind that made nothing negative stick out about it. But I would lie, if I could tell you that I actually recall the actual sound. (And I haven't got it handy to check just now.) But it was absolutely, absolutely ear-opening for me, despite *wanting* to love Nielsen for many years.

Thanks a lot, Jens. Your feedback is very helpful.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on June 22, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
This one?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71dC8L1yVKL._SL1194_.jpg)

Yep, that's the one. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 22, 2015, 02:33:13 PM
I only like half of Blomstedt's SF cycle (1, 2, 6). Really hate his Third. But don't pay attention to me: mine's a minority opinion.

Sarge

Yes, his 6th is especially noteworthy I feel. Don't recall how I feel about his Espansiva, but I'll have to plan a revisit soon. Temperaments is especially fine as well in this SFSO cycle.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Camphy on June 23, 2015, 12:54:58 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2015, 01:53:27 PM
Okay, so right now I have my eyes on the Ole Schmidt cycle with the LSO on the Alto label. The only thing that's holding me back is what someone on Amazon referred to as a recessed/reverberant audio quality. For those that know this set, would you say this is true? One problem I have with something that's overly reverberant is the lack of clarity in the interworking of the various instrumental sections. Any feedback would be great. Thanks in advance.

P.S. It's not like I need another Nielsen symphony cycle as I own most of them already, but this Schmidt cycle is highly revered.

Thanks for enticing me to listen to Nielsen's Fourth yet again! ;) I'm growing very fond of it.
Although I can't offer you much in the way of comparison, I will say that to me the Schmidt set sounds very good and has great clarity. No difficulties in perceiving the various instrumental sections. I certainly wouldn't call it "overly reverberant". Hope you'll enjoy it!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 23, 2015, 05:14:42 AM
Quote from: Camphy on June 23, 2015, 12:54:58 AM
Thanks for enticing me to listen to Nielsen's Fourth yet again! ;) I'm growing very fond of it.
Although I can't offer you much in the way of comparison, I will say that to me the Schmidt set sounds very good and has great clarity. No difficulties in perceiving the various instrumental sections. I certainly wouldn't call it "overly reverberant". Hope you'll enjoy it!

Thank you, Camphy! I'm getting quite excited about Schmidt's Nielsen now. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 06:26:05 AM
I finally got around to listening to Vilde Frang's recording of the Violin Concerto and I have no words right now other than WOW!!!!

(http://www.israbox.com/uploads/posts/2012-11/1353530934_folder.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 25, 2015, 06:35:11 AM
Cool.

Viz. the Bostock symphonies . . . I need to give a listen (or, another listen, or, a proper listen).  I certainly snaffled up the box for Other Stuff.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 06:38:10 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 25, 2015, 06:35:11 AM
Cool.

Viz. the Bostock symphonies . . . I need to give a listen (or, another listen, or, a proper listen).  I certainly snaffled up the box for Other Stuff.

How is Bostock's set, Karl? Hurwitz doesn't like Bostock's performances that much.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 25, 2015, 06:48:46 AM
I think we got that exchange backwards, John  :)

Although I have that box, I do not have a reliable impression of the symphonies.  (Honestly, all I remember is the affecting Paraphrase on "Nearer, My God, to Thee.")  I need to go back to it.

— I remember Sarge informing us that this set includes the alternate version of the Andante pastorale of the Sinfonia espansiva, with instruments subbing for the vocalise;  and I remember making a mental note to have a listen.  I think I may have lost that mental note until just now . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 06:52:45 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on June 25, 2015, 06:48:46 AM
I think we got that exchange backwards, John  :)

Although I have that box, I do not have a reliable impression of the symphonies.  (Honestly, all I remember is the affecting Paraphrase on "Nearer, My God, to Thee.")  I need to go back to it.

— I remember Sarge informing us that this set includes the alternate version of the Andante pastorale of the Sinfonia espansiva, with instruments subbing for the vocalise;  and I remember making a mental note to have a listen.  I think I may have lost that mental note until just now . . . .

Hmmm...well maybe Sarge can inform us about the merits of these performances (it's certainly not like I need more Nielsen in my collection), but, as the saying goes, "inquiring minds want to know." :) Please let me know your impressions of Bostock's Nielsen whenever you get the chance to listen to more of the set.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 25, 2015, 07:22:49 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 06:52:45 AM
Hmmm...well maybe Sarge can inform us about the merits of these performances (it's certainly not like I need more Nielsen in my collection), but, as the saying goes, "inquiring minds want to know." :) Please let me know your impressions of Bostock's Nielsen whenever you get the chance to listen to more of the set.

Here's what I said three years ago (I don't think I've been back to the box since...I have too damn many CDs :D ):

Good news, Karl. The two symphonies I've heard so far, Espansiva and Inextinguishable, are quite good...well, different anyway, and to me, different often means good  8)

As sometimes happens, what the Hurwitzer considers a negative, I consider a positive. This for example:

"His hasty accelerando over the powerful repeated chords leads to a main tempo that is apparently too fast for the orchestra to negotiate successfully. Consequently, the remainder of the movement is riddled with blurred articulation, hesitant entrances and insecure rhythms."

I didn't hear it that way. What I heard was a fascinating new way to play those opening chords. Something shockingly different. Yeah, the chords become a bit blurred as the acceleration reaches an insane pace, but man, does that launch the Allegro in a thrilling fashion. Too fast for a desert island pick or a library choice, maybe, but great fun to hear. Bostock has to brake pretty hard for the second subject but I like the extreme contrast. Gramophone noticed a lack of body in the strings and that too is a negative that I can turn into a positive: the strings don't swamp the rest of the orchestra (like in some Espansivas I know); there is great clarity in the other sections of the orchestra, especially the brass, which really pack a punch. The climax of the development, that fantastic waltz, is almost as good as Bernstein's or Kuchar's (even though at Bostock's tempo it would create chaos on the ballroom floor  :D ). Both Andantes are on the CD: the original with soprano and tenor, and Nielsen's alternative orchestration for clarinet and trombone. That should interest you! I thought the tempo for the Finale utterly perfect.

So, 13 bucks already well spent, and I've only heard the first CD of ten  8)


Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 07:32:44 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Sarge. The only thing that is hindering me is the audio quality of this set. Out of 10, how would you rate it? Is the audio quality pretty consistent throughout the whole set? Thanks.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 25, 2015, 08:01:32 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 07:32:44 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Sarge. The only thing that is hindering me is the audio quality of this set. Out of 10, how would you rate it? Is the audio quality pretty consistent throughout the whole set? Thanks.

Nothing sounds bad but the quality is inconsistent. 1, for example, sounds a tad muffled. 3 is brass and drum heavy when it needs to be...a plus. 4 has very prominent horns (which CT complains about but I like). Depending on the disc, I'd give 6, 7 or 8 (maybe even a 9 for #3).

Edit: after further sampling the set, I'd say you might find the string balance objectionable at points in some of the symphonies. I think too some might find the brass a bit crude (not me, it's thrilling).

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 25, 2015, 08:25:40 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 25, 2015, 07:22:49 AM
Here's what I said three years ago (I don't think I've been back to the box since...I have too damn many CDs :D ):

I don't think I have been, either.  And recently I laid eyes on the Schønwandt box, and realized how long I was due for quality time with that 'un.  (Money well spent in both cases, indeed.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on June 25, 2015, 11:38:38 AM
The Bostock set is just 13 dollars, which I presume has to be a minor cost in your (and anybody's) eyes. I like it quite a bit (so far #1-4), but I have still to traverse the rest of the discs. Besides, you get access to some more peripheral pieces (it sounds like that was Karl's motivation  ;)). In my ears the sound quality (so far) is not top notch, but very good indeed.

Jack Lawson at Musicweb seemed to have enjoyed Bostock quite a bit (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Mar09/Nielsen_symphonies_CLASSCD296-299.htm).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 25, 2015, 06:32:53 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 25, 2015, 08:01:32 AM
Nothing sounds bad but the quality is inconsistent. 1, for example, sounds a tad muffled. 3 is brass and drum heavy when it needs to be...a plus. 4 has very prominent horns (which CT complains about but I like). Depending on the disc, I'd give 6, 7 or 8 (maybe even a 9 for #3).

Edit: after further sampling the set, I'd say you might find the string balance objectionable at points in some of the symphonies. I think too some might find the brass a bit crude (not me, it's thrilling).

Sarge

Thanks again, Sarge. Sounds like I'll skip the Bostock cycle as I don't really see how he could better Oramo or Schonwandt for me.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 26, 2015, 02:25:38 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on June 25, 2015, 11:38:38 AM
The Bostock set is just 13 dollars, which I presume has to be a minor cost in your (and anybody's) eyes. I like it quite a bit (so far #1-4), but I have still to traverse the rest of the discs. Besides, you get access to some more peripheral pieces (it sounds like that was Karl's motivation  ;)). In my ears the sound quality (so far) is not top notch, but very good indeed.

Jack Lawson at Musicweb seemed to have enjoyed Bostock quite a bit (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/Mar09/Nielsen_symphonies_CLASSCD296-299.htm).
Aye, that fairly describes my motivation :) (I certainly did not anticipate this symphony cycle vying with my favorites.) That said, last night I listened to the First Symphony from this set (which is where I began revisiting Schønwandt's set the other day), and found it perfectly satisfying, musically and sonically. The Sarge's dictum ("Different is good") applies here, meseems.  So my point (insofar as I have one, here) is that even in the symphonies, which in buying this set I did not have in view at all, I have found value.

Which (for me) is all gravy, since the box easily has a disc's worth and more of music I find nowhere else, readily justifying the $13 I paid for it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 26, 2015, 09:20:15 AM
No mystery, why I feel such an affinity with this composer! (emphasis mine)

Quote from: Niels Bo FoltmannIt has been said that Carl Nielsen brooded long over the first movement of the Third Symphony.  Then at last he got the idea for the main subject one day while he was in a tram, and having no music paper he notated the theme on his sleeve.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2015, 07:42:57 PM
Has anyone watched the documentary titled The Light and the Darkness that's coupled with Schonwandt's symphony cycle on DVD?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Hello Nielsenites, do check out this website when you have time:

http://www.carlnielsen.org/en (http://www.carlnielsen.org/en)

Lots of great information here and details about Nielsen's life and music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Camphy on June 30, 2015, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Hello Nielsenites, do check out this website when you have time:

http://www.carlnielsen.org/en (http://www.carlnielsen.org/en)

Lots of great information here and details about Nielsen's life and music.

Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2015, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Camphy on June 30, 2015, 09:40:08 PM
Thanks for the link!

(https://ac3d197e9505f18c50e0-32b9f49f48b2c22be12b40ee79e2acc4.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/icon/logos_and_badges_thumbs_up/7x5uDqD4GBTrCSbXggZ-/58C79CAE-C3E6-4D6A-BAF5-A03631274FD7.png)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2015, 07:29:13 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2015, 08:47:35 PM
Hello Nielsenites, do check out this website when you have time:

http://www.carlnielsen.org/en (http://www.carlnielsen.org/en)

Lots of great information here and details about Nielsen's life and music.

I read the biography from this site and it's quite good. It shed some light on an aspect of Nielsen I knew nothing about, which were the difficulties of his marriage to Anne Marie Brodersen who pursued her own art just as vigorously as Nielsen did. This caused a lot of friction in their marriage.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 02, 2015, 12:52:14 PM
Quote from: Niels Bo FoltmannOn 14 April 1912 the Titanic sank in the North Atlantic after hitting an iceberg.  The news shook the world, and the tale of how the ship's small eight-member band played the hymn Nearer my God to Thee as the vessel sank went all around the globe.  The Copenhagen Orchestral Society (Københavns Orkestforening) quickly decided to mount a benefit concert for the families of the drowned musicians, and Nielsen agreed to compose a paraphrase of Nearer my God to Thee and to conduct the concert.  He drew up a short score in pencil with a few indications for the instrumentation, which he then left to Julius Reesen to carry out.  It is evident from the score that it was finished on 18 May.  The concert should have taken place on 21 May in the old railway hall in Copenhagen, which the Falck emergency service had promised to convert for the occasion into a brand new concert hall, but the concert was cancelled because of the sudden death of King Frederick VIII on 14 May.  At first the plan was simply to postpone the concert for about ten days, but afterwards the whole enterprise was shelved until further notice.

Three years later [the] Copenhagen Orchestral Society organized a 'Monster Concert' for the benefit of the society's pension fund.  The concert was held on 22 August 1915 in the park Kongens Have, where a huge wind orchestra of some 200 musicians had been put together for the occasion, conducted by Frederick Schnedler-Petersen and Carl Nielsen respectively.  Among the works on the programme was the paraphrase of Nearer my God to Thee, conducted by the composer.  It is interesting that the piece was presented on this occasion as if it had been specially composed for the concert.  According to contemporary newspaper reports the audience of about 30,000 received the piece with enthusiasm, and the concluding chorale had to be encored.  On 28 August Nielsen wrote to his good friend Bodil Neergaard: "The concert went well and people were grateful for the little I had come up with for the occasion, and that always makes one feel good."

This appears to have been the only performance of the paraphrase during the composer's lifetime.  In fact Nielsen is said not to have been particularly proud of this — strictly speaking — rather banal piece of programme music, and later he was hardly he was hardly willing to acknowledge its paternity.

Nielsen used Lowell Mason's melody from 1852 as the basis of his paraphrase.  But in 1912, besides this melody, there were a further two settings of Sarah F. Adams' text, one by John B. Dykes and one by Sir Arthur Sullivan.  Which tune was actually played on the Titanic quickly became a subject of discussion, and an admonitory article in Nationaltidende on 18 May 1912 points out the importance of Nielsen choosing the right melody, thought by the author to be the one by Dykes.  But as we have seen, by this time the piece was already finished.  The discussion of the melody used continues to this day.

Until the present edition, the original performance material has always been considered to have been lost.  This has led to a number of reconstruction attempts on the basis of Nielsen's short score in pencil.  However, the whole of the original material (namely score and parts in Julius Reesen's own hand) has been preserved, and with this edition the paraphrase is published for the first time in the version that the composer himself conducted in 1915.  The manuscript set of parts has been chosen as the main source over the score, since in connection with the copying-out of the parts Julius Reesen made a large number of changes in the instrumentation, such that in a number of respects the original score does not represent the final version.

The Bostock recording conforms to the Carl Nielsen Edition score, with the following three departures:

The Lowell Mason tune in the Carl Nielsen Edition score, a bit peculiarly, casts the meter in 6/4;  Bostock's performance "flattens" the meter to the customary 4/4.

The score is marked to repeat the Lowell Mason tune, but Bostock does not repeat.

At the end of the repeated passage, the score has two grand fff chords;  these are missing from Bostock's performance.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 02, 2015, 01:05:27 PM
It is curious then that Rozh cuts the ending of the piece. Doesn't seem to be any reason (the CD could have accomodated the extra two minutes).

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 02, 2015, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 02, 2015, 01:05:27 PM
It is curious then that Rozh cuts the ending of the piece. Doesn't seem to be any reason (the CD could have accommodated the extra two minutes).

Sarge

I wonder if they just had "bad" source documents.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 02, 2015, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 02, 2015, 01:10:10 PM
I wonder if they just had "bad" source documents.

Yeah, could be. The recording is over twenty years old.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 02, 2015, 04:07:05 PM
"Foul papers"  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on July 03, 2015, 09:44:29 AM
Hello GMGers.  8)  It has been awhile (Nov. 2014)

Just been so busy with work and life with my wonderful girlfriend.  :)

Have been listening to a fair amount of Nielsen lately.  Excellent complete chamber music set, and that beige Bostock set.  :)  Marvelous music!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: jlaurson on July 04, 2015, 12:02:56 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 03, 2015, 09:44:29 AM
Hello GMGers.  8)  It has been awhile (Nov. 2014)

Just been so busy with work and life with my wonderful girlfriend.  :)

Have been listening to a fair amount of Nielsen lately.  Excellent complete chamber music set, and that beige Bostock set.  :)  Marvelous music!

Gratifying to hear and welcome back!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 04, 2015, 04:51:16 AM
Cheers, Ray!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2015, 06:25:19 AM
It's certainly nice to have Ray back around. 8)

Does anyone recommend a good Nielsen biography in English? I was looking at this one:

[asin]0714835072[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 04, 2015, 07:22:47 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 03, 2015, 09:44:29 AM
Hello GMGers.  8)  It has been awhile (Nov. 2014)

Hey, Ray. It's good to see the Nut in the house again  8)

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 04, 2015, 08:56:44 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 04, 2015, 06:25:19 AM
It's certainly nice to have Ray back around. 8)

Does anyone recommend a good Nielsen biography in English? I was looking at this one:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0714835072.01.L.jpg)

I've found the Phaidon series good.  (I've not seen this one, but I've read those on Debussy, Sibelius & Bartók.)  Not extensive bios, but a good amount of meat on the bones.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 04, 2015, 09:55:28 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 04, 2015, 06:25:19 AM
It's certainly nice to have Ray back around. 8)

Does anyone recommend a good Nielsen biography in English? I was looking at this one:

[asin]0714835072[/asin]

Like almost all Phaidon books it is very likely to be oriented towards photos/art rather than the written content. I suspect it is a very introductory biography. It seems as if no hardcore academic biography has been written/published (yet).  :(

I presume that you have already come across the 'Carl Nielsen Edition"?
http://www.kb.dk/en/nb/dcm/cnu/ (http://www.kb.dk/en/nb/dcm/cnu/)

This one looks interesting....
http://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Companion-Mina-F-Miller/dp/1574670050 (http://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Companion-Mina-F-Miller/dp/1574670050)

(http://carlnielsen.dk/media/Billedsektion/miller.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Companion-Mina-F-Miller/dp/1574670050)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2015, 10:05:00 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on July 03, 2015, 09:44:29 AM
Hello GMGers.  8)  It has been awhile (Nov. 2014)

Just been so busy with work and life with my wonderful girlfriend.  :)

Have been listening to a fair amount of Nielsen lately.  Excellent complete chamber music set, and that beige Bostock set.  :)  Marvelous music!

Welcome back!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2015, 07:11:19 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 04, 2015, 08:56:44 AM
I've found the Phaidon series good.  (I've not seen this one, but I've read those on Debussy, Sibelius & Bartók.)  Not extensive bios, but a good amount of meat on the bones.

Yeah, Karl. The Phaidon books aren't bad at all. I've read the one on Schnittke and Bartok so far. Love the accompanying photographs. I still need to read the Sibelius one.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 04, 2015, 09:55:28 AM
Like almost all Phaidon books it is very likely to be oriented towards photos/art rather than the written content. I suspect it is a very introductory biography. It seems as if no hardcore academic biography has been written/published (yet).  :(

I presume that you have already come across the 'Carl Nielsen Edition"?
http://www.kb.dk/en/nb/dcm/cnu/ (http://www.kb.dk/en/nb/dcm/cnu/)

This one looks interesting....
http://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Companion-Mina-F-Miller/dp/1574670050 (http://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Companion-Mina-F-Miller/dp/1574670050)

(http://carlnielsen.dk/media/Billedsektion/miller.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Companion-Mina-F-Miller/dp/1574670050)

Thanks, Peter. I have not seen those books actually. I'm probably going to get the Phaidon Press book mainly because I have good experiences with their books so far. I'm not looking for a biography that's exhaustive, but these Phaidon books seem to contain more than just a standard biography and usually have some interesting anecdotes to add along the way. Robert Simpson's book on Nielsen looks quite interesting as he compares Nielsen's and Sibelius' symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2015, 07:40:20 AM
The more I listen to Nielsen the more I begin to realize how much of a kinship I have with his music. I can listen to any Nielsen work and come away with some kind of gratification. He was remarkably consistent and everything he composed has his unmistakable voice. Some people here may not like him or consider him the equal to other important composers of the 20th Century, but, for me, Nielsen stands right along side Sibelius, RVW, Shostakovich, Ravel, Bartok, Debussy, Stravinsky, etc. What he did for the symphony is truly awe-inspiring. The way he kind of just spit in the face of convention. Like all great composers, he did things his own way and with a sharp ear and mind, but he never turned his back on the greats before him. Beethoven, Brahms, and Mozart were three of his favorite composers and he had a deep affection for Wagner as well. On this 150th anniversary year, I am reminded time and time again of why I count him as one of my favorites.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2015, 10:52:19 AM
So what do my fellow Nielsenites think of his operas: Saul and David and Maskarade? I currently have Schonwandt's Maskarade out-for-delivery. I'm thinking about picking up Saul and David at some point as well.

http://www.dacapo-records.dk/en/recording-carl-nielsen-maskarade.aspx
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 09, 2015, 07:16:40 PM
Symphony No. 2 "The Four Temperaments," FS 29

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/shared/npr/styles/x_large/nprshared/201506/411502590.jpg) (http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/shared/npr/styles/x_large/nprshared/201506/411504594.jpg)
(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/shared/npr/styles/x_large/nprshared/201506/411517724.jpg) (http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/06/02/nielsen_kid1-97cd5098912e463d10b025ce90e909a45ea67d3f-s800-c15.jpg)

Nielsen's Symphony No. 2, Op. 16 (1901-02) was inspired by a depiction of the four temperaments or "humours" -- long used to describe one's personality and physical characteristics -- on the wall of a village inn on the Danish island of Sjaeland. The composer fashioned a symphony based on the temperaments, cautioning that his treatment of them was not intended to be programmatic; instead, these four states merely provide an outline of the moods in the work. Nielsen described the musical depictions in the symphony's four movements thus: "... [T]he impetuous (Allegro collerico), the indolent (Allegro flemmatico), the melancholy (Andante malincolico) and the cheerful (Allegro sanguino). But the impetuous man can have his milder moments, the melancholy man his impetuous or brighter ones, and the boisterous, cheerful man can become a little contemplative, even quite serious -- but only for a little while. The lazy, indolent man, on the other hand, only emerges from his phlegmatic state with the greatest of difficulty, so this movement is both brief (he can't be bothered) and uniform in its progress."

In addition to displaying the composer's masterful talent for sonic portraiture, the symphony also demonstrates one of Nielsen's highly individual techniques, which he called "progressive tonality": a series of adventurous modulations that bypass the formal key relationships characteristic of most Classical and Romantic symphonies. Nevertheless, the influence of Brahms is clearly in evidence, especially in the third movement. After a few early performance, the symphony was not often heard until the 1960s, when Nielsen's genius began to receive wider recognition.


[Article taken from All Music Guide]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me, this symphony is what hooked me on Nielsen. It has all the ingredients of what was to become of the composer of such masterpieces as Symphony No. 5 or the Wind Quintet. What separates it from Symphony No. 1 in G minor is the usage of progressive tonality and we start hearing a constant duality in the music. From light to dark, day to night, etc., this symphony also has a grand sweep in the Romantic sense. The slow movement Andante malincolico is almost on the verge of breaking down with orchestral sighs and cries. This may not be a 'GMG favorite' but it's always had a special place in my heart. I love all of Nielsen's symphonies and each symphony is a world unto its' own. As far as performances go, Blomstedt's with the San Francisco SO really moved me the first time I heard it and always kind of remained my benchmark.

What about you guys?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 13, 2015, 10:53:43 AM
Symphony No. 4, "The Inextinguishable," Op. 29, FS 76

(http://peaceandloveism.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/clouds-filter.jpg) (http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/4d/28/ee4d28eb0ddc6ea9f27f13b0fd3b65a2.jpg)


Nielsen began writing this work (Det Uudslukkelige in Danish) during the summer of 1915, and completed it two weeks before the first performance, which he conducted in Copenhagen on February 1, 1916. In addition to triple winds and full brass, Nielsen specified two sets of timpani, as far apart as possible on the stage. While Symphony No. 3, the Espansiva of 1910-1911, proclaimed his indubitable maturity, the Fourth (which he started planning in 1914) became Nielsen's equivalent of Beethoven's Eroica, just as the Fifth would be his counterpart of Beethoven's Fifth. Years before, he had written, "It is a fact that he who brandishes the hardest fist will be remembered the longest." Certainly the proximity and brutality of World War I influenced the conflicts in his Fourth Symphony, although the Fifth of 1921-1922 expressed his real horror. In the score of The Inextinguishable Nielsen wrote, "Under this title the composer has endeavored to indicate in one word what music alone is capable of expressing to the full: the elemental Will of Life. Music is Life, and like it is inextinguishable. The title...might therefore seem superfluous; the composer, however, has employed the word to underline the strictly musical character of his subject. It is not a program, but only a suggestion about the right approach to the music."

Taking a cue from Mendelssohn's Scottish and Schumann's D minor symphonies, he wrote all four movements of The Inextinguishable to be played without pause, beginning with a violent struggle between the keys of C major and D minor. More even than Franck's D minor Symphony, however, Nielsen's Fourth is a "motto" symphony based on the E major second theme of his opening Allegro. This is introduced in "sweet-sounding" thirds by a pair of clarinets, replaced by flutes, horns, and strings before the strident main theme returns to do battle -- not only in the development but during the recapitulation -- a contest won by the motto in the coda, although not decisively enough to forestall a later, even more vehement challenge in the finale. Without pause, the folk-colored Poco allegretto in G replaces a scherzo, piquant writing for winds that remembers Serenata invano of 1914 as much as it anticipates the Quintet of 1922 and the flute and clarinet concertos. Its principal subject derives from the motto theme, but Nielsen puts this on hold in the ensuing Poco adagio quasi andante, whose searing, starkly scored main theme is developed in two-part counterpoint, derived from old Netherlands polyphony according to one Nielsen scholar. A nervous, stuttering new theme increases the tension. While the movement climaxes in E major, this crumbles in the struggle between themes. Suddenly, the strings begin a wild race that plunges into a terminal Allegro whose swaggering main theme in E major declares itself, only to be challenged by two sets of timpani that duel brutally for control until E major can finally assert itself and hold. Triumphant, the motto theme invites both timpanists to punctuate the "inextinguishable" victory.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is another symphony that made a huge impression on me when I first started getting into classical music six years ago. Symphony No. 4, like Nielsen's other symphonies, is a world unto it's own. There's a sense of transcendence in this music, but, as common in Nielsen's music, there's a duality happening here. It's almost like a struggle between heaven and earth. The rhythmic element of the music seems to keep it grounded and this is especially evident in the first movement: Allegro. What does everyone at GMG think of this symphony? I think it's a masterpiece, but don't take my word for it, I'm quite biased. ;) ;D A few favorite performances: Blomstedt/SFSO, Schonwandt/Danish NSO, and Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 13, 2015, 01:13:46 PM
I'm still curious about this photograph:

(http://www.oly-forum.com/files/images/p8232557_0.preview.jpg)

I know Hahn has been performing the Nielsen Violin Concerto in recent years, but I wonder if she'll get around to recording it? Anyone know?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 16, 2015, 08:28:58 PM
Carl Nielsen is the "composer of the month" in the current issue of BBC Music Magazine!    ;)

(http://cdn2.classical-music.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/400px_wide/Cover.png)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 16, 2015, 08:31:12 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 16, 2015, 08:28:58 PM
Carl Nielsen is the "composer of the month" in the current issue of BBC Music Magazine!    ;)

(http://cdn2.classical-music.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/400px_wide/Cover.png)

Woo hoo! Too bad he didn't make the cover story. That would've been really awesome. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 16, 2015, 08:33:20 PM
I came across this Nielsen article/discussion on NPR (June 9, 2015):

http://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2015/06/09/411256072/evenly-odd-carl-nielsens-distinctive-symphonies (http://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2015/06/09/411256072/evenly-odd-carl-nielsens-distinctive-symphonies)

(http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/06/02/nielsen-b6ad140548ef2bca8fefec67dc8e6347e9ed432e-s800-c85.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 16, 2015, 08:35:04 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 16, 2015, 08:31:12 PM
Woo hoo! Too bad he didn't make the cover story. That would haven't been really awesome. 8)

Yeah, considering the anniversary he should have been the cover story!    >:(

Btw - a great interview with Thomas Søndergård in that issue. I kind of wish he was the new conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic. I think we can expect a lot of great music from him in the future!   :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 16, 2015, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 16, 2015, 08:35:04 PM
Yeah, considering the anniversary he should have been the cover story!    >:(

Btw - a great interview with Thomas Søndergård in that issue. I kind of wish he was the new conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic. I think we can expect a lot of great music from him in the future!   :)

Yes! Totally! Sibelius made the cover and was the main article in the February 2015 issue, so why didn't Nielsen get the same kind of royal treatment? I suppose a lot of it still stems from the fact that Nielsen's star didn't shine as brightly as Sibelius' during their lifetimes. It seems Nielsen was a country hero while Sibelius reached an international audience. This doesn't, however, mean that one composer is better than the other. Quite the contrary. I obviously love both composers, but it just kind of rubs me the wrong way when a composer who has been recognized as one of the greats of the 20th Century is given a 'Composer of the Month' column as if to be pushed aside.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 17, 2015, 01:44:38 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 13, 2015, 10:53:43 AM
This is another symphony that made a huge impression on me when I first started getting into classical music six years ago. Symphony No. 4, like Nielsen's other symphonies, is a world unto it's own. There's a sense of transcendence in this music, but, as common in Nielsen's music, there's a duality happening here. It's almost like a struggle between heaven and earth. The rhythmic element of the music seems to keep it grounded and this is especially evident in the first movement: Allegro. What does everyone at GMG think of this symphony? I think it's a masterpiece, but don't take my word for it, I'm quite biased. ;) ;D A few favorite performances: Blomstedt/SFSO, Schonwandt/Danish NSO, and Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO.

When I heard Nielsen's Fourth Symphony the first time (possibly the first time I heard Nielsen's music in my life) on radio some 15 years ago I was blown away. It's my favorite Symphony by Nielsen and I consider it one of the best Symphonies ever written.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 17, 2015, 03:23:05 AM
Splendid, Poju!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 17, 2015, 07:14:00 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 17, 2015, 01:44:38 AM
When I heard Nielsen's Fourth Symphony the first time (possibly the first time I heard Nielsen's music in my life) on radio some 15 years ago I was blown away. It's my favorite Symphony by Nielsen and I consider it one of the best Symphonies ever written.

It's certainly nothing short of a masterpiece.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Camphy on July 17, 2015, 08:17:37 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 16, 2015, 08:09:30 PM
Very cool. 8) Thanks! On an unrelated note, how are you liking Schonwandt's Nielsen cycle so far?

Too early to tell; I've only managed to listen to the first symphony thus far.
Hope to report back to you soon.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 17, 2015, 06:25:33 PM
Quote from: Camphy on July 17, 2015, 08:17:37 AM
Too early to tell; I've only managed to listen to the first symphony thus far.
Hope to report back to you soon.

Sounds like a plan. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Klaze on July 18, 2015, 01:06:36 AM
Seems there have been quite a few new releases of the symphonies in the recent past. Anything particularly worthwile?  Ive only got the Blomstedt & Kuchar cycles so far and a few separate ones.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 18, 2015, 03:16:25 AM
Quote from: Klaze on July 18, 2015, 01:06:36 AM
Seems there have been quite a few new releases of the symphonies in the recent past. Anything particularly worthwile?  Ive only got the Blomstedt & Kuchar cycles so far and a few separate ones.

Yes, I highly recommend Oramo's cycle on BIS. Outstnding performances. Oh and if you don't have Bernstein's Nielsen, then run, don't walk over to Amazon and buy them all (if you can find them cheap as they're OOP I believe).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 20, 2015, 09:42:01 AM
How are the LSO Live Colin Davis renditions regarded by GMG "Nielsenites"?

Review on MusicWeb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/May13/Nielsen_Davis_LSO0694_LSO0715_LSO0722.htm)

[asin] B00SKFJETK[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 20, 2015, 09:56:42 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 20, 2015, 09:42:01 AM
Review on MusicWeb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/May13/Nielsen_Davis_LSO0694_LSO0715_LSO0722.htm)

I do not know the recording, but gosh, this review was certainly dramatic to read.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 20, 2015, 09:56:42 AM
I do not know the recording, but gosh, this review was certainly dramatic to read.

I disagree with the praise of Alan Gilbert's Nielsen in that article. I don't think it's 'all that.'
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 20, 2015, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
I disagree with the praise of Alan Gilbert's Nielsen in that article. I don't think it's 'all that.'

John,
You purchased the Colin Davis recordings recently (if I recall correctly). Would you recommend them?  :-\
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 01:17:00 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 20, 2015, 01:14:37 PM
John,
You purchased the Colin Davis recordings recently (if I recall correctly). Would you recommend them?  :-\

I haven't heard but the 4th and 5th so far and I can't say I'm particularly taken with either performance, but that's just from a first-listen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 20, 2015, 01:40:48 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 01:17:00 PM
I haven't heard but the 4th and 5th so far and I can't say I'm particularly taken with either performance, but that's just from a first-listen.

Looking forward to your impressions when they materialize!  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 20, 2015, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
I disagree with the praise of Alan Gilbert's Nielsen in that article. I don't think it's 'all that.'

I agree. I'm not hearing what this MusicWeb guy hears in Gilbert's Espansiva. He writes:

"Let's deal first with the engineering: it is the servant of the music but here the stereo is a sensuous experience in its own right! Never before on disc have I heard layering and inner detail which the conductor here elicits and the musicians contribute."

Lack of detail is what I first noticed about the disc. I'm listening to it again, with earphones this time, and I'm still missing tons of detail (especially trumpet and woodwind detail) I hear in other recordings.

He writes: "Alan Gilbert interprets Nielsen's Third Symphony in a way I have never heard before."

I hear a quite an ordinary interpretation. Nothing stands out as particularly, or uniquely, special. (Edit: the Allegretto is nicely done.)

Because of my disappointment with Gilbert's Third, I didn't buy the rest of his cycle. Maybe I'm missing out but based on what I have heard I'm not worrying about it.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 02:00:08 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 20, 2015, 01:40:48 PM
Looking forward to your impressions when they materialize!  8)

That is if they materialize. ;) If being the operative word here. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 02:03:28 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 20, 2015, 01:43:51 PM
I agree. I'm not hearing what this MusicWeb guy hears in Gilbert's Espansiva. He writes:

"Let's deal first with the engineering: it is the servant of the music but here the stereo is a sensuous experience in its own right! Never before on disc have I heard layering and inner detail which the conductor here elicits and the musicians contribute."

Lack of detail is what I first noticed about the disc. I'm listening to it again, with earphones this time, and I'm still missing tons of detail (especially trumpet and woodwind detail) I hear in other recordings.

He writes: "Alan Gilbert interprets Nielsen's Third Symphony in a way I have never heard before."

I hear a quite an ordinary interpretation. Nothing stands out as particularly, or uniquely, special. (Edit: the Allegretto is nicely done.)

Because of my disappointment with Gilbert's Third, I didn't buy the rest of his cycle. Maybe I'm missing out but based on what I have heard I'm not worrying about it.

Sarge

It's really sad to think about because I LOVE the New York Philharmonic and really believed in them, but when you have what I believe to be an uninspired conductor, you have an uninspired performance and one that'll never catch fire. A lot of people love this cycle and that's certainly their right, but I just can't get onboard with Gilbert.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 20, 2015, 02:09:13 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
I disagree with the praise of Alan Gilbert's Nielsen in that article. I don't think it's 'all that.'

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 20, 2015, 01:43:51 PM
I agree. I'm not hearing what this MusicWeb guy hears in Gilbert's Espansiva. He writes:

"Let's deal first with the engineering: it is the servant of the music but here the stereo is a sensuous experience in its own right! Never before on disc have I heard layering and inner detail which the conductor here elicits and the musicians contribute."

Lack of detail is what I first noticed about the disc. I'm listening to it again, with earphones this time, and I'm still missing tons of detail (especially trumpet and woodwind detail) I hear in other recordings.

He writes: "Alan Gilbert interprets Nielsen's Third Symphony in a way I have never heard before."

I hear a quite an ordinary interpretation. Nothing stands out as particularly, or uniquely, special. (Edit: the Allegretto is nicely done.)

Because of my disappointment with Gilbert's Third, I didn't buy the rest of his cycle. Maybe I'm missing out but based on what I have heard I'm not worrying about it.

Sarge


Not saying that I take his words at face value.  Only that he's written a dramatic review  0:)   8)  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 20, 2015, 02:09:13 PM
Not saying that I take his words at face value.  Only that he's written a dramatic review  0:)   8)  :)

:) I didn't read the full review myself, but I noticed that blurb about Gilbert's Nielsen and had to comment on it. The review was a bit long for me. I tend to like reviews that get to the point a bit more quickly. I suppose I'm Stravinskian in that regard. ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 20, 2015, 02:30:28 PM
Well, and one of the things I find most interesting is, here's someone who (in a peculiar use of the idiom) has heard more Nielsen symphonies than [he has] eaten proverbial hot dinners, yet his supreme pick (apparently) is the Gilbert, for which both John and the Sarge have expressed relative indifference.

Again, not saying it signifies anything, beyond isn't it funny how we all hear music differently . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 03:43:53 PM
True, Karl and one of the things that I'm surprised about is the Sarge and I agree on something. Expect two worlds to collide. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 20, 2015, 02:30:28 PM
Again, not saying it signifies anything, beyond isn't it funny how we all hear music differently . . . .

Well, I'm listening for specific things in recordings of the Espansiva, and when I don't hear those things, I'm bummed. Those who don't care about those details will probably be baffled by my negative response. Schonwandt and Gilbert fail me so I can't agree with the praise they've received.

I would love to ask the MusicWeb critic about the detail he claims to hear when it is so obvious to my ears that much goes missing. But it goes beyond the inner detail here. I don't find the interpretation (save the Allegretto) compelling either. Besides what I've already written about the performance, I have to say the last movement may be the dullest, least exciting I've ever heard (I own fifteen versions). Usually I'm not this negative but boy, Gilbert really disappoints me.

Interestingly, though, I agree with this critic's review of Kuchar's cycle (one of my top three along with Ormandy/Bernstein and Schmidt):

"Reissued this month is the remarkable 3-CD symphony cycle which Theodore Kuchar and the Janácek Orchestra recorded in 2005 in the Czech Republic for Brilliant Classics (review). Still at bargain price, and from 2012 attractively presented, I confess that I had ignored it until encouraged to unwrap the cellophane by a MusicWeb International reader. Suffice to say that Kuchar's Nielsen is both a bargain and a top flight performance of all six symphonies. The engineering is first class; the sound is transparent, dynamic and natural. The performances establish the new, modern, international sound of Carl Nielsen..."

I also agree with his favorable review of Bostock's Espansiva.

Sarge

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 04:42:07 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2015, 03:43:53 PM
True, Karl and one of the things that I'm surprised about is the Sarge and I agree on something. Expect two worlds to collide. :)

Since we disagree about Schonwandt, that may give us enough repulsion to avoid a collision  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 21, 2015, 05:06:44 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
I also agree with his favorable review of Bostock's Espansiva.

Maybe the reviewer just needs some more hot dinners  ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 07:03:30 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 04:37:37 AM
Well, I'm listening for specific things in recordings of the Espansiva, and when I don't hear those things, I'm bummed. Those who don't care about those details will probably be baffled by my negative response. Schonwandt and Gilbert fail me so I can't agree with the praise they've received.

I would love to ask the MusicWeb critic about the detail he claims to hear when it is so obvious to my ears that much goes missing. But it goes beyond the inner detail here. I don't find the interpretation (save the Allegretto) compelling either. Besides what I've already written about the performance, I have to say the last movement may be the dullest, least exciting I've ever heard (I own fifteen versions). Usually I'm not this negative but boy, Gilbert really disappoints me.

Interestingly, though, I agree with this critic's review of Kuchar's cycle (one of my top three along with Ormandy/Bernstein and Schmidt):

"Reissued this month is the remarkable 3-CD symphony cycle which Theodore Kuchar and the Janácek Orchestra recorded in 2005 in the Czech Republic for Brilliant Classics (review). Still at bargain price, and from 2012 attractively presented, I confess that I had ignored it until encouraged to unwrap the cellophane by a MusicWeb International reader. Suffice to say that Kuchar's Nielsen is both a bargain and a top flight performance of all six symphonies. The engineering is first class; the sound is transparent, dynamic and natural. The performances establish the new, modern, international sound of Carl Nielsen..."

I also agree with his favorable review of Bostock's Espansiva.

Sarge

But several questions remain: have you heard Oramo yet? What about Chung's Espansiva on BIS? I think it's one of the best ones I've heard along with Bernstein's and Oramo's. I can't say I'm particularly impressed with Bostock's Nielsen or at least from what I'm heard so far (Symphonies 4 & 5 and Pan & Syrinx). I also don't think much of Schmidt and the recessed strings don't do the music any favors. Kuchar isn't much of a contender for me either as I don't think the orchestra is very good. If I had to pick one cycle right now to go to the desert island with me it would be Oramo on BIS. It's THAT good. These are exciting performances with great clarity and precision. I really wish Thomas Dausgaard would record the cycle as I was quite impressed with that recording he made of miscellaneous orchestral works on Dacapo.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: kishnevi on July 21, 2015, 07:13:13 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 20, 2015, 01:43:51 PM
I agree. I'm not hearing what this MusicWeb guy hears in Gilbert's Espansiva. He writes:

"Let's deal first with the engineering: it is the servant of the music but here the stereo is a sensuous experience in its own right! Never before on disc have I heard layering and inner detail which the conductor here elicits and the musicians contribute."

Lack of detail is what I first noticed about the disc. I'm listening to it again, with earphones this time, and I'm still missing tons of detail (especially trumpet and woodwind detail) I hear in other recordings.

He writes: "Alan Gilbert interprets Nielsen's Third Symphony in a way I have never heard before."

I hear a quite an ordinary interpretation. Nothing stands out as particularly, or uniquely, special. (Edit: the Allegretto is nicely done.)

Because of my disappointment with Gilbert's Third, I didn't buy the rest of his cycle. Maybe I'm missing out but based on what I have heard I'm not worrying about it.

Sarge

Give the "supplemental" CD of the concertos a try.  Gilbert got those right, although the symphonies recordings themselves are the epitome of "meh"
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:14:06 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 07:03:30 AM
But several questions remain: have you heard Oramo yet? What about Chung's Espansiva on BIS?

Chung's one of my favorites. I own these. Favorites in bold. Oramo I haven't heard. Still debating whether, at my age, I need another Espansiva  ;D

Rozhdestvensky    12:44  11:06  7:06  11:04
Schmidt              12:06  10:13  6:37   9:30
Horenstein            12:04   9:57   7:33   9:59
Saraste                 12:03   8:46   5:49   9:36
Schonwandt          11:44   9:34   6:21   9:36
Bernstein            11:37   9:50   6:26   9:28
Davis                    11:28   7:26   6:29   9:18
Gilbert                  11.24   9:12   6:36  10:03
Kuchar                11:19   9:41   6:35    9:16
Salonen               11:15   9:37   6:43  10:22
Chung                 11:07  10:00  6:41    9:17
Berglund               11:00   8:21   6:19   9:33
Frandsen             10:55   8:05   6:04   8:47
Bostock               10:37    9:14   6:14   9:39
Blomstedt             10:35    9:07   6:21   9:18


Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:17:39 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 21, 2015, 07:13:13 AM
Give the "supplemental" CD of the concertos a try.  Gilbert got those right, although the symphonies recordings themselves are the epitome of "meh"

Thanks...I'll consider it.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 07:22:13 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:14:06 AM
Chung's one of my favorites. I own these. Favorites in bold. Oramo I haven't heard. Still debating whether, at my age, I need another Espansiva  ;D

Rozhdestvensky    12:44  11:06  7:06  11:04
Schmidt              12:06  10:13  6:37   9:30
Horenstein            12:04   9:57   7:33   9:59
Saraste                 12:03   8:46   5:49   9:36
Schonwandt          11:44   9:34   6:21   9:36
Bernstein            11:37   9:50   6:26   9:28
Davis                    11:28   7:26   6:29   9:18
Gilbert                  11.24   9:12   6:36   10:03
Kuchar                11:19   9:41   6:35    9:16
Salonen               11:15   9:37   6:43  10:22
Chung                 11:07  10:00  6:41    9:17
Berglund               11:00   8:21   6:19   9:33
Frandsen             10:55   8:05   6:04   8:47
Bostock               10:37   9:14   6:14   9:39
Blomstedt             10:35   9:07   6:21   9:18


Sarge

Salonen I see is a favorite. I don't think I've really explored his cycle in-depth even though I now own all of his Nielsen (the Flute & Clarinet Concerti disc I was missing). I would say, yes, you really should get the Oramo (if you can get it for a good price --- it's BIS after all). Very impressive performance that I think you would enjoy.

And, Jeffrey, I have yet to sit down and listen to that concerti disc from Gilbert. I suppose I'm so disgusted with his symphonic cycle that I just can't bring myself at the moment to listen to it. I'll let some more time elapse before digging into it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:34:35 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 07:22:13 AM
Salonen I see is a favorite. I don't think I've really explored his cycle in-depth

He was my way into the Fourth. It was the one Nielsen symphony that had eluded me for years. Then I read a very negative review of Salonen's by Robert Layton in Gramophone. He couldn't stand Salonen's mannerisms, his flexible way with the rhythm, deploring the agogic distortion. Now Layton was one of the few critics who never let me down. When he hated something it was a guarantee I'd love it. So, on his "advice" I bought it, and it finally clicked. The Espansiva is as good. 

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 07:40:19 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:34:35 AM
He was my way into the Fourth. It was the one Nielsen symphony that had eluded me for years. Then I read a very negative review of Salonen's by Robert Layton in Gramophone. He couldn't stand Salonen's mannerisms, his flexible way with the rhythm, deploring the agogic distortion. Now Layton was one of the few critics who never let me down. When he hated something it was a guarantee I'd love it. So, on his "advice" I bought it, and it finally clicked. The Espansiva is as good. 

Sarge

Sounds like I really need to listen to Salonen soon. Yeah, I don't think I've ever agreed with Layton either, but I haven't read too many of his reviews.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:41:36 AM
Actually, of all the Espansiva's I own, the only ones I really dislike are Blomstedt and Gilbert (and even Gilbert has some redeeming qualities: magnificent horns in the first movement; that Allegretto). I'm not overly thrilled with Schonwandt either but have to admit his climactic waltz is fun. The bass is so prominent it sounds like giant trolls dancing. (Do they have trolls in Denmark, or is that just Norway?  ;D)

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on July 21, 2015, 07:47:40 AM
I gotta say, as a longtime Sakari Oramo detractor/unenthusiast, his cycle has made me seriously question my previous attitudes. That, and the as-good-as-it-ever-gets Elgar First.

If Salonen's Fourth is on Sony, I'll try to give it a listen on NML later. That sounds pretty fun.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:56:22 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 07:40:19 AM
Sounds like I really need to listen to Salonen soon. Yeah, I don't think I've ever agreed with Layton either, but I haven't read too many of his reviews.

Layton may be before your time. He was fired from Gramophone when the original owners sold the magazine. When did that happen, late 90s? He is an expert on Scandinavian music (he translated the Tawaststjerna biography of Sibelius) but his reviews were usually helpful only if I ignored his recommendations and bought the things he disliked. At least that was the way it worked twenty, thirty years ago. I'm a bit more open-minded today  8)

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:58:17 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 21, 2015, 07:47:40 AM
I gotta say, as a longtime Sakari Oramo detractor/unenthusiast, his cycle has made me seriously question my previous attitudes. That, and the as-good-as-it-ever-gets Elgar First.

Okay, you and John have convinced me. I'll order, at least, the disc with the Espansiva.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 21, 2015, 08:12:11 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:14:06 AM
Chung's one of my favorites. I own these. Favorites in bold. Oramo I haven't heard. Still debating whether, at my age, I need another Espansiva  ;D

Rozhdestvensky    12:44  11:06  7:06  11:04
Schmidt              12:06  10:13  6:37   9:30
Horenstein            12:04   9:57   7:33   9:59
Saraste                 12:03   8:46   5:49   9:36
Schonwandt          11:44   9:34   6:21   9:36
Bernstein            11:37   9:50   6:26   9:28
Davis                    11:28   7:26   6:29   9:18
Gilbert                  11.24   9:12   6:36  10:03
Kuchar                11:19   9:41   6:35    9:16
Salonen               11:15   9:37   6:43  10:22
Chung                 11:07  10:00  6:41    9:17
Berglund               11:00   8:21   6:19   9:33
Frandsen             10:55   8:05   6:04   8:47
Bostock               10:37    9:14   6:14   9:39
Blomstedt             10:35    9:07   6:21   9:18

Today was my first-ever listen to Lenny in the Espansiva, Sarge, and I can certainly see it being a favorite.  Remind me of some of the things you listen for in the magnificent Op.27?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 21, 2015, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 21, 2015, 08:12:11 AM
Today was my first-ever listen to Lenny in the Espansiva, Sarge, and I can certainly see it being a favorite.  Remind me of some of the things you listen for in the magnificent Op.27?

Apart, I mean, from Blomstedt being nowhere near it  ;)  0:)  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on July 21, 2015, 08:39:56 AM
Meanwhile, I'll be over here listening to Chung's Espansiva for the first time.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on July 21, 2015, 09:16:10 AM
Well, wow. Chung's recording is awesome. I think the primal, "rough" sound is a huge benefit - Chung's approach can be aggressive and headlong, and the BIS 80s sound setup makes it feel like the brass section is perched on your shoulder blasting into your ears. Result: just a super freakin' exciting performance. Definitely gonna be one of my all-time favorites.

Thanks, Sarge! I hope this is a fair trade of recommendations but it might well not be!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 12:45:07 PM
Quote from: Brian on July 21, 2015, 09:16:10 AM
Well, wow. Chung's recording is awesome. I think the primal, "rough" sound is a huge benefit - Chung's approach can be aggressive and headlong, and the BIS 80s sound setup makes it feel like the brass section is perched on your shoulder blasting into your ears. Result: just a super freakin' exciting performance. Definitely gonna be one of my all-time favorites.

Thanks, Sarge! I hope this is a fair trade of recommendations but it might well not be!

I've been praising Chung's performance for quite some time as well. It is awesome indeed. One of my favorite performances.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 01:25:47 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:14:06 AM
Chung's one of my favorites. I own these. Favorites in bold. Oramo I haven't heard. Still debating whether, at my age, I need another Espansiva  ;D

Rozhdestvensky    12:44  11:06  7:06  11:04
Schmidt              12:06  10:13  6:37   9:30
Horenstein            12:04   9:57   7:33   9:59
Saraste                 12:03   8:46   5:49   9:36
Schonwandt          11:44   9:34   6:21   9:36
Bernstein            11:37   9:50   6:26   9:28
Davis                    11:28   7:26   6:29   9:18
Gilbert                  11.24   9:12   6:36  10:03
Kuchar                11:19   9:41   6:35    9:16
Salonen               11:15   9:37   6:43  10:22
Chung                 11:07  10:00  6:41    9:17
Berglund               11:00   8:21   6:19   9:33
Frandsen             10:55   8:05   6:04   8:47
Bostock               10:37    9:14   6:14   9:39
Blomstedt             10:35    9:07   6:21   9:18


Sarge

Let's look at Oramo's times for the Espansiva:

Oramo                 11:23  9:17  6:41  10:10
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 22, 2015, 03:53:37 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 21, 2015, 08:12:11 AM
Remind me of some of the things you listen for in the magnificent Op.27?

The trumpet figurations (very rapid repeated notes) that drive the music rhythmically at various points in the first movement. In many recordings they're buried, sometimes even inaudible. And the trumpet tremolo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53. Gilbert gave his trumpets a smoke break at that point...although he's not alone. Very few recordings make that effect really audible.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 22, 2015, 04:00:41 AM
Thanks.  You realize, I do respect your ears!  And I entirely understand how even a detail or two can be a deal-breaker (hence the too-quiet horns in the HvK recording of the Shostakovich Op.93 kill that recording for me).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 22, 2015, 04:01:24 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 21, 2015, 01:25:47 PM
Let's look at Oramo's times for the Espansiva:

Oramo                 11:23  9:17  6:41  10:10

Almost identical to Gilbert's timings...proving that overall speed does not make a performance.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on July 22, 2015, 04:27:10 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 22, 2015, 03:53:37 AM
The trumpet figurations (very rapid repeated notes) that drive the music rhythmically at various points in the first movement. In many recordings they're buried, sometimes even inaudible. And the trumpet tremelo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53. Gilbert gave his trumpets a smoke break at that point...although he's not alone. Very few recordings make that effect really audible.

Sarge
Just before the waltz breaks out - here Oramo gives the trumpets a big crescendo; at the beginning they are inaudible but they "slide" in.

'fraid I might prefer Chung...but I am a sucker for loud recordings where you don't need to turn the volume up.  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 22, 2015, 04:32:58 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 22, 2015, 04:27:10 AM
Just before the waltz breaks out - here Oramo gives the trumpets a big crescendo; at the beginning they are inaudible but they "slide" in.

'fraid I might prefer Chung...but I am a sucker for loud recordings where you don't need to turn the volume up.  ;D

Yeah, they had the recording amps cranked up to 11 on that one  :D

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 22, 2015, 04:38:22 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 22, 2015, 04:00:41 AM
Thanks.  You realize, I do respect your ears!  And I entirely understand how even a detail or two can be a deal-breaker (hence the too-quite horns in the HvK recording of the Shostakovich Op.93 kill that recording for me).

Another "small" detail in another work that really bothers me when I can't hear it is the col legno moment (only a few measures) before the climax of the first movement development in Mahler's Second. In every live performance I've heard this effect has been startlingly audible (literally so: I once saw a couple of blue hairs wake up in fright at that point  ;D ) but very few recordings do it justice.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on July 22, 2015, 04:59:10 AM
xpost

Quote from: amw on July 21, 2015, 03:48:24 AM
Which set of Nielsen piano music?

(http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/28/13/0761203741328_600.jpg)

(http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/96/89/5709499498996_600.jpg)

(http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/88/16/7318591671688_600.jpg)

(http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/22/74/0730099457422_600.jpg)

I already have Martin Roscoe on Hyperion, but am not totally satisfied with it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 22, 2015, 05:02:03 AM
I've not heard any of them, and I promised my late father I should never offer an opinion on any recording I have not actually listened to  8)

I've heard Martin Roscoe in the Chaconne, and agree that it is not a first choice.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 22, 2015, 05:19:50 AM
Just ordered the Rozhdestvensky.

[asin]B0006AZPZY[/asin]

..should make a good contrast to my Blomstedt and Davis cycles. My thoughts on the Gilbert are not as harsh as some of you here. I ordered the 2nd/3rd disc from the set, and I like what I've heard, but it seems my positive thoughts are mostly with the musicians, I like the way the NYP sounds. I don't hear anything relavatory in Gilbert's take, so I find that aspect to be a little overrated. And this may be the only single from the set I order, but I have read good things about the concertos disc.

Revisiting these symphonies has been a blast. I remember listening to the Blomstedt cycle some 20 years ago, mainly focusing on the brass heavy moments. Now older, and perhaps slightly wiser, I'm hearing details in the music I missed before, especially with the 3rd symphony. The 3rd is a masterpiece, when it ends I feel as if I just finished a musical tour of the composer's soul. In fact, all 6 symphonies are great. Have always loved the 4th and 6th, and I'm getting to know the 5th much better.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 22, 2015, 05:32:00 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 22, 2015, 03:53:37 AM
The trumpet figurations (very rapid repeated notes) that drive the music rhythmically at various points in the first movement. In many recordings they're buried, sometimes even inaudible. And the trumpet tremolo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53.

Thanks for pointing this out!  It's exactly the sort of detail within a rich musical texture which can be elusive in even multiple hearings!  I know I have a score for the Espansiva, somewhere at home . . . high time I read it closely.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 22, 2015, 06:24:20 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 22, 2015, 05:19:50 AM
Just ordered the Rozhdestvensky.

[asin]B0006AZPZY[/asin]

..should make a good contrast to my Blomstedt and Davis cycles. My thoughts on the Gilbert are not as harsh as some of you here. I ordered the 2nd/3rd disc from the set, and I like what I've heard, but it seems my positive thoughts are mostly with the musicians, I like the way the NYP sounds. I don't hear anything relavatory in Gilbert's take, so I find that aspect to be a little overrated. And this may be the only single from the set I order, but I have read good things about the concertos disc.

Revisiting these symphonies has been a blast. I remember listening to the Blomstedt cycle some 20 years ago, mainly focusing on the brass heavy moments. Now older, and perhaps slightly wiser, I'm hearing details in the music I missed before, especially with the 3rd symphony. The 3rd is a masterpiece, when it ends I feel as if I just finished a musical tour of the composer's soul. In fact, all 6 symphonies are great. Have always loved the 4th and 6th, and I'm getting to know the 5th much better.

Ah yes, the Celibidache of Nielsen symphony cycles. :) It definitely will be a contrast to those other sets. If you're thinking of getting a fourth cycle, then you can't go wrong with Oramo on BIS.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 22, 2015, 11:20:57 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 22, 2015, 03:53:37 AM
. . . And the trumpet tremolo (I think that's what it is) just before the waltz breaks out. Bernstein is superb here, you can hear it clearly at 5:53.

Listening to the Kuchar, I wonder if that is flutter-tonguing in the trumpets . . . makes me want yet more to scare up the score, and see what the composer is looking for there . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on July 22, 2015, 11:46:04 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 22, 2015, 11:20:57 AM
Listening to the Kuchar, I wonder if that is flutter-tonguing in the trumpets
My instinct is the same.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 06:19:52 AM
How's Salonen's cycle? I keep reading positive reviews online but can't find any samples.

So far I have Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, 2 from Davis/LSO, 1 from Gilbert/NYP and 1 from Bernstein. I'm happy with what I have but I find each recording to bring out different nuances of the music, so naturally I'm tempted to continue exploring.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 23, 2015, 06:31:49 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 06:19:52 AM
How's Salonen's cycle? I keep reading positive reviews online but can't find any samples.

So far I have Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, 2 from Davis/LSO, 1 from Gilbert/NYP and 1 from Bernstein. I'm happy with what I have but I find each recording to bring out different nuances of the music, so naturally I'm tempted to continue exploring.

I still need to revisit Salonen's Nielsen, but, as I mentioned above, you should really check out Oramo's cycle. Also, Chung's performances are must-listens as well.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 06:35:12 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 22, 2015, 11:20:57 AM
Listening to the Kuchar, I wonder if that is flutter-tonguing in the trumpets . . . makes me want yet more to scare up the score, and see what the composer is looking for there . . . .

Yes, I'm confused about that point. I always thought it flutter-tonguing until I read Hurwitz who called it a tremolo. Looking at the definition of tremolo, it does fit. I don't know how either would be marked in the score so it would be useless for me to look. I'm hoping you can solve the riddle, Karl.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 06:38:42 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 06:19:52 AM
How's Salonen's cycle? I keep reading positive reviews online but can't find any samples.

I like his 3 and 4. I haven't explored the rest in depth.

I'm listening to Oramo 3 now...it is magnificent. John and Brian are right. Despite the expense, I would consider that before Salonen.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 23, 2015, 06:47:13 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 06:38:42 AMI'm listening to Oramo 3 now...it is magnificent. John and Brian are right. Despite the expense, I would consider that before Salonen.

Sarge

Like Brian, I was disenchanted with Oramo's conducting in the past, but after hearing his Nielsen, the guy gets my respect big time. I really hope he conducts more Nielsen, but this might not happen any time soon (if ever). Glad you enjoyed his Espansiva, Sarge.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 06:59:57 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 06:38:42 AM
I like his 3 and 4. I haven't explored the rest in depth.

I'm listening to Oramo 3 now...it is magnificent. John and Brian are right. Despite the expense, I would consider that before Salonen.

Sarge

"I was afraid you would say that." -Greg's Bank Account   $:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 07:11:06 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 06:35:12 AM
Yes, I'm confused about that point. I always thought it flutter-tonguing until I read Hurwitz who called it a tremolo. Looking at the definition of tremolo, it does fit. I don't know how either would be marked in the score so it would be useless for me to look. I'm hoping you can solve the riddle, Karl.

Sarge

The score I looked at notated trem, listening to the Bernstein the trumpets at this point sound very clean, almost a double or triple-tounge?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 07:17:25 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 07:11:06 AM
The score I looked at notated trem, listening to the Bernstein the trumpets at this point sound very clean, almost a double or triple-tounge?

Ah, thank you.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 23, 2015, 07:25:50 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 06:59:57 AM
"I was afraid you would say that." -Greg's Bank Account   $:)

:P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 23, 2015, 07:27:23 AM
Greg, I'm not sure if you've ever shopped with Presto Classical, but they've got each volume of Oramo's Nielsen for $13, which is actually a good deal on BIS recordings:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=Nielsen+Oramo (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=Nielsen+Oramo)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on July 23, 2015, 07:29:56 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 06:38:42 AM
I like his 3 and 4. I haven't explored the rest in depth.

I'm listening to Oramo 3 now...it is magnificent. John and Brian are right. Despite the expense, I would consider that before Salonen.

Sarge
Whew! Always breathe a sigh of relief when a recommendation ends well.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on July 23, 2015, 07:30:39 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 23, 2015, 07:27:23 AM
Greg, I'm not sure if you've ever shopped with Presto Classical, but they've got each volume of Oramo's Nielsen for $13, which is actually a good deal on BIS recordings:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=Nielsen+Oramo (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=Nielsen+Oramo)
In fact, BIS in general is on sale there. You have the Oramo Elgar First already, right? Cuz it's thebomb.com.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 23, 2015, 07:35:19 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 23, 2015, 07:30:39 AM
In fact, BIS in general is on sale there. You have the Oramo Elgar First already, right? Cuz it's thebomb.com.

I don't have his Elgar 1st (yet), but I have his recording of the 2nd, which was quite good.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 07:41:02 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 07:17:25 AM
Ah, thank you.

Sarge

I think it's also possible for a trumpet to play the same note using different valves as if playing a trill, but it would sound like a tremolo. I'll cheat and ask a brass player later.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 08:15:02 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 07:11:06 AM
The score I looked at notated trem, listening to the Bernstein the trumpets at this point sound very clean, almost a double or triple-tounge?

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 07:41:02 AM
I think it's also possible for a trumpet to play the same note using different valves as if playing a trill, but it would sound like a tremolo. I'll cheat and ask a brass player later.

Got some info from a trumpet player, and he says that it is 95% time a flutter, with the small possibility of a valve flutter.

The Bernstein to me sounds like a double/triple tongue, and of course it could be a interpretive choice made my conductor or section principal, but I guess it most cases it's a flutter.
Now that we've totally examined this to death, but I find theory to be interesting so thanks for the topic, Sarge.  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 23, 2015, 07:27:23 AM
Greg, I'm not sure if you've ever shopped with Presto Classical, but they've got each volume of Oramo's Nielsen for $13, which is actually a good deal on BIS recordings:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=Nielsen+Oramo (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=Nielsen+Oramo)

Quote from: Brian on July 23, 2015, 07:30:39 AM
In fact, BIS in general is on sale there. You have the Oramo Elgar First already, right? Cuz it's thebomb.com.

Thanks, friends.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 23, 2015, 08:42:30 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 08:15:02 AM
Got some info from a trumpet player, and he says that it is 95% time a flutter, with the small possibility of a valve flutter.

The Bernstein to me sounds like a double/triple tongue, and of course it could be a interpretive choice made my conductor or section principal, but I guess it most cases it's a flutter.
Now that we've totally examined this to death, but I find theory to be interesting so thanks for the topic, Sarge.  ;D

Thanks for your investigative work, lad!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 23, 2015, 08:54:56 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 23, 2015, 08:42:30 AM
Thanks for your investigative work, lad!

You're welcome. It was fun, I used to remember more back when I played, but now just have to reach out to my sources for answers.  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 23, 2015, 09:23:04 AM
Not that it means anything beyond the listener's particular hang-ups, but it greatly surprised me to read this dismissal of the piano works on amazon.com:

QuoteI agree with previous commentators that the performances on this recording are all of a very high quality. My beef is more with Nielsen as a composer.

Symphonic audiences outside of Denmark have, by now, become at least somewhat familiar with Nielsen's idom as a composer through his symphonies and violin concerto. Nielsen's 6 symphonies, like his string quartets, are the best pieces the composer wrote, and deserve their place in the orchestral and chamber music repertoire. Less so the Violin Concerto, which seems interminably long and full of tepid air. If Nielsen had let the 1st movement stand alone, he would have written a great violin concerto. Whenever I hear it played well, I want to jump up and applaud wildly. Then I realize that the rest of the audience isn't clapping and that the conductor isn't turning and bowing, and with a clammy sensation of cold sweat breaking out I realize that there are two more movements - another 30 minutes - of music to go. And those last two movements are definitely not great music by any standard of definition.

The same can be said about Nielsen's chamber music for violin and solo piano. The 1st Violin Sonata isn't half bad and deserves a hearing now and then, though those by Saint-Saens, Faure and Schumann are far more worthy to appear in a concert hall. The pieces for violin solo likewise. It is the 2nd Violin Sonata that takes the prize. The first couple of movements are merely ho-hum, but then comes the last movement. One expects that the previous inanities will continue, but - oh lord - is one in for a surprise! The last movement is so bad that I have always had a hard time stopping myself from bursting out with loud laughter as the pianist and violinist play this travesty of composition with a straight face. The fugue is like something the 2 year-old Bach could have written.

Most of the solo piano music is equally bad (or funny if one thinks of Carl Nielsen as a Florence Foster Jenkins-style composer in these pieces). It is patently obvious that Nielsen was no pianist, and that his pianistic skills were mediocre at best. His own skills must have influenced the quality of the music. Nielsen does try to incorporate the style that is uniquely his into these works, but goes overboard, so the piano music sounds like a bad parody of his symphonies and other, better, works. Of course, if someone else were trying to make fun of Nielsen's music, then the parody would be very good instead. Add to that passages in the piano which sound obviously clunky technically speaking, and you have a synopsis of Nielsen's piano music.

This set may be a steal price-wise, but one pays the penalty if the CD's with the 2nd Violin Sonata and piano music are played. Instead of having your respect for this bad-to-decent, at times great in his best works, composer ruined by listening to how ludicrously he was able to compose in all seriousness, I would recommend that you only buy CD's with the string quartets and the wind quintet. Getting the two CD set of the quartets performed by the Danish String Quartet is highly recommended. That way you will be able to continue to sit through Nielsen's symphonies in the concert hall without snickering, which will no doubt irritate those around you more than struggling with candy wrappers and texting while the music plays.

The performers deserve five stars for their efforts, but unfortunately, Nielsen's music on this CD set has to be considered as well. His 2nd Violin Sonata and the piano works merit one star (and that's catching me in a generous mood), so the average must come out to three.

Of course, there is no musical discussion of the piano music's alleged defects, just scornful witticism.  Personally, my enjoyment of the piano music has never resulted in any impulse to snicker at any of Nielsen's other music.  No doubt, some sort of pathology on my part, a morbid sympathy with "bad-to-decent" 20th-c. composers  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 09:51:13 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 23, 2015, 07:29:56 AM
Whew! Always breathe a sigh of relief when a recommendation ends well.

The first movement especially has all the things I look for. It has great detail (trumpets do not disappoint) and a sense of anticipation and excitement as the waltz climax approaches...and then, the waltz is played in an individual way that gave me a sense that the conductor knew what he wanted, and got what he wanted rather than just getting through it. Gave me goose bumps  8)  The only negative reaction I had to the performance was the tenor in the slow movement. But everyone responds to voices differently so I don't think that should necessarily bother others.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 09:57:14 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 23, 2015, 08:42:30 AM
Thanks for your investigative work, lad!

Seconded. If there is individual choice in how to interpret Nielsen's marking, that would explain the different sounds various performances have at this point (when you can hear it, that is).

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 10:01:49 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 23, 2015, 09:23:04 AM
Not that it means anything beyond the listener's particular hang-ups, but it greatly surprised me to read this dismissal of the piano works on amazon.com:

I don't think I've ever listened to the piano music. That review gives me incentive to give it go  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 23, 2015, 10:11:36 AM
Hah!  What was our Davey's phrase? "Resentment listening"?  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 24, 2015, 07:24:19 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 09:51:13 AM
The first movement especially has all the things I look for. It has great detail (trumpets do not disappoint) and a sense of anticipation and excitement as the waltz climax approaches...and then, the waltz is played in an individual way that gave me a sense that the conductor knew what he wanted, and got what he wanted rather than just getting through it. Gave me goose bumps  8)  The only negative reaction I had to the performance was the tenor in the slow movement. But everyone responds to voices differently so I don't think that should necessarily bother others.

Sarge

Really glad you enjoyed Oramo's Espansiva. Another one of my recommendations that rewards the listener. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on July 24, 2015, 11:48:59 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 23, 2015, 06:38:42 AM
I like his 3 and 4. I haven't explored the rest in depth.

I'm listening to Oramo 3 now...it is magnificent. John and Brian are right. Despite the expense, I would consider that before Salonen.

Sarge
Breathes in relief. The bazooka rests.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 03:18:43 AM
Bazooka loaded? Tables ready to be rebuild? Because I'm willing to be the odd man out and claim preference of the Gilbert/NYP over Oramo/Stockholm. This is based on comparing nos. 4 and 5 since that's the only one available on spotify from Oramo.
For pure crisp sound and orchestral clarity the Oramo is tops, same can be said for their magnificent Elgar 2nd, but interpretation is lacking the level of stimulation I'm searching for within Nielsen's symphonies. I know I knocked on Gilbert's participation in an earlier post and gave more credit to the NYP, and it's still mostly the case. But when compared to Oramo, Gilbert is more detailed to my ears. He seems to stretch out some of the more dramatic moments, creating a larger sound wall, and truly pinpointing the importance of dynamics which puts the dark and heavy toned NY musicians on display.
This is not a negative review on Oramo, from what I've heard his Nielsen cycle is great, and I am an Oramo fan (although not big on his Bruckner), but when picking between the two newest cycles I'm leaning towards Gilbert.
Although BIS does outdo DaCapo in the recorded quality. Gilbert is taken from live performances which I would take over studio any day, but a few too obvious adjustments, 4th's second mvt gets bumped up so much that audience and stage noise becomes more apparent.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 25, 2015, 03:59:34 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 03:18:43 AM
Bazooka loaded?

I can't argue with you. I've only compared Gilbert's and Oramo's Espansivas...and in that Symphony Oramo is clearly producing more of what I want in this work, both sonically and interpretively.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 04:07:42 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 25, 2015, 03:59:34 AM
I can't argue with you. I've only compared Gilbert's and Oramo's Espansivas...and in that Symphony Oramo is clearly producing more of what I want in this work, both sonically and interpretively.

Sarge

Good morning, Sarge,
I would like to hear Oramo's 3rd, I really enjoyed Gilbert/NYP's take, the first and final movements were very powerful.
If the BIS sonics are similar throughout the entire cycle then I'm guessing Oramo's 3rd is beautifully detailed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 25, 2015, 06:03:34 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 03:18:43 AM
Bazooka loaded? Tables ready to be rebuild? Because I'm willing to be the odd man out and claim preference of the Gilbert/NYP over Oramo/Stockholm. This is based on comparing nos. 4 and 5 since that's the only one available on spotify from Oramo.

For pure crisp sound and orchestral clarity the Oramo is tops, same can be said for their magnificent Elgar 2nd, but interpretation is lacking the level of stimulation I'm searching for within Nielsen's symphonies. I know I knocked on Gilbert's participation in an earlier post and gave more credit to the NYP, and it's still mostly the case. But when compared to Oramo, Gilbert is more detailed to my ears. He seems to stretch out some of the more dramatic moments, creating a larger sound wall, and truly pinpointing the importance of dynamics which puts the dark and heavy toned NY musicians on display.
This is not a negative review on Oramo, from what I've heard his Nielsen cycle is great, and I am an Oramo fan (although not big on his Bruckner), but when picking between the two newest cycles I'm leaning towards Gilbert.

Although BIS does outdo Da Capo in the recorded quality. Gilbert is taken from live performances which I would take over studio any day, but a few too obvious adjustments, 4th's second mvt gets bumped up so much that audience and stage noise becomes more apparent.

We all hear things differently. Oramo just sounds right in Nielsen to my ears. Gilbert has the advantage of the NY Philharmonic, but Gilbert isn't Bernstein and he has no authority on the podium whatsoever. I like this analogy: Gilbert is a stream, Oramo is a raging river. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 07:18:15 AM
GMG'rs...So what is you favorite of the 6 symphonies? And why? Favorite performance?

They are all so diverse and unique, it's been fascinating to rediscover these works.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 25, 2015, 07:35:06 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 07:18:15 AM
GMG'rs...So what is you favorite of the 6 symphonies? And why? Favorite performance?

They are all so diverse and unique, it's been fascinating to rediscover these works.

That's an incredibly difficult question, Greg. I love them all, but if I were forced into a corner, I'd pick The Inextinguishable. The reason why is a little more complicated, but I think this symphony is life-affirming. It's never depressive and it never feels like Nielsen is preaching to anyone. I think this symphony is his 'signature'. It has all of the elements that we've come to love about his music right from the beginning. This duality which I've mentioned many times is brought to the foreground. There's a constant struggle in this symphony, which where the duality comes into effect. These interwoven sequences of emotional temperatures remind me in some ways of Mahler, but projected into a completely different light altogether. The ending of the first movement also seems to have a longing quality in the music that peaks its head in his music from time to time, but it seems a bit subdued, but this feels like a sigh of relief or some kind of release. This symphony, for me, continues to be one of his most passionate musical utterances. Anyway, I have many favorite performances, but if I had to pick one it would be Blomstedt/San Francisco SO. I think Blomstedt gets beneath the surface of this music and isn't just concerned with creating a beautiful surface.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 27, 2015, 07:31:38 PM
I guess no one is going to answer Greg's question besides me? :-\

Anyway, love watching Bernstein conduct the Espansiva:

https://www.youtube.com/v/d5sbcF7p0Pk

It's apparent right from the start that Bernstein was loving every minute of the symphony. Surely, his performance of the 3rd is one of the best on record. The enthusiasm, honest affection, and command Bernstein had of Nielsen's idiom continues to be a source of inspiration for me. You can feel the love of the music in every bar of this performance.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 27, 2015, 07:38:22 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 27, 2015, 07:31:38 PM
I guess no one is going to answer Greg's question besides me? :-\

Anyway, love watching Bernstein conduct the Espansiva:

https://www.youtube.com/v/d5sbcF7p0Pk

It's apparent right from the start that Bernstein was loving every minute of the symphony. Surely, his performance of the 3rd is one of the best on record. The enthusiasm, honest affection, and command Bernstein had of Nielsen's idiom continues to be a source of inspiration for me. You can feel the love of the music in every bar of this performance.

I'd like to think some are losing sleep over the question it's so difficult  ;)
Thanks for the video posting, John.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 27, 2015, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 27, 2015, 07:38:22 PM
I'd like to think some are losing sleep over the question it's so difficult  ;)
Thanks for the video posting, John.

Yeah, even I'm losing sleep over choosing The Inextinguishable whenever all of the other ones are equally satisfying for me but obviously in different ways.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 27, 2015, 08:23:12 PM
Pan and Syrinx, Op. 49, FS 49

(http://www.myartprints.co.uk/kunst/willem_de_heusch/pank.jpg)

This eight-minute symphonic poem is an imaginative and very pretty piece based on a subject from Classical Antiquity, inspired by Ovid's Metamorphoses. It is the legend of the invention of the flute by the god Pan, who has been pursuing a nymph, Syrinx. Fleeing him, the nymph reaches a lake that cuts off her escape. The gods take pity on her, transforming her into a reed. From the reed, Pan built his original pan-pipe.

Obviously any piece concerning Syrinx is going to have major parts for woodwind solos. This eight-minute symphonic poem was written at the height of Nielsen's powers as a composer, right after he finished the Fourth Symphony. It is a vigorous, pretty, and poetic work.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is such a great work, although it seems like it's over before it begins being only 8-9 minutes in duration. It shows the composer in a different light. Some of the harmonies are almost Debussyian. What does everyone think of this work? My favorite performance would probably be Thomas Dausgaard/Danish NSO on Dacapo, although there have been several great performances like Niklas Willén's on Naxos (w/ the South Jutland SO).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2015, 07:02:48 AM
It's time for some more spotlighting...

Symphony No. 3, "Sinfonia Espansiva," Op. 27, FS 60

(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/68/a5/e0/68a5e03c2c061932e15564f355a4b9a5.jpg) (http://40.media.tumblr.com/5030ce795981dc7d556168dd006649d9/tumblr_noo4bhPKYu1rbcubso3_1280.jpg)

Carl Nielsen wished to demonstrate in his third symphony his conviction that music is driven by internal forces that seek to transcend their confines. The work begins with an energetic waltz of enormous scale. The melodic-rhythmic progression of this melody drives itself forward irresistibly, indeed expansively (the movement is marked Allegro espansiva), introducing several variations to which Nielsen returns throughout the symphony. As the opening theme is transformed and re-invented; one is reminded of Nielsen's fondness for Brahms' use of symphonic form, particularly his "developing variations" principle. The original theme serves as a "seed" that leads to new variations, which in turn give rise to new motifs. The movement ends merrily, almost flippantly, on an unexpected chord.

Nielsen wished to incorporate into the second movement, Andante pastorale, the sights and sounds of his rural childhood on the island of Funen (Fyn) in Denmark. The movement begins idyllically, with horn and strings sighing long, low tones, bringing to mind the shapeless sound of wind in the trees. A increasingly mournful mood creeps slowly into Arkady, while the opening melody is hinted at again in a heavier, more threatening manner. This is resolved by the soothing, wordless entrance of two human voices, baritone and soprano soloists who vocalize on the simple "Ah" vowel. Their contribution expands the tonal color of the orchestral palette. The movement ends with the orchestra and vocalists echoing each other as though in contented communication. Nielsen once expressed a desire to "imagine a music that would be similar to impressionistic painting, where the contours wash out in an atmospheric haze." This movement does just that, creating a rich and ethereal effect.

The third movement, marked Allegretto un poco, opens with a hushed brass fanfare, and proceeds into a flurry of restless energy in the oboe. This restlessness spreads throughout the orchestra, growing in urgency and volume as the movement progresses. As urgency settles slowly into calmness, punctuated only by occasional hushed alarms from individual instruments (violin, clarinet, flute), the oboe speaks again, this time reassuringly, bringing the movement to a peaceful close. The finale, Allegro, begins with a stately march theme. This expansive melody, in which the entire orchestra is involved, sums up the development of the entire work with a grandiose intensification reminiscent of Mahler. The loose ends, both emotional and musical, left by the first two movements are resolved in an exuberant closing.

The symphony proved to be Nielsen's international breakthrough. After its enthusiastic reception in Denmark, Nielsen conducted a performance at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, where the symphony was given high praise, launching a series of successful performances throughout Europe. It remains one of Nielsen's most often-performed works.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A masterpiece. Plain and simple. Much discussion has already taken place in this thread about the Espansiva, but I figured it needed another boost. My favorite performances right now are Bernstein/Royal Danish Orch., Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO, and Chung/Gothenberg SO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 28, 2015, 07:09:11 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 07:18:15 AM
GMG'rs...So what is you favorite of the 6 symphonies? And why? Favorite performance?

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 27, 2015, 07:38:22 PM
I'd like to think some are losing sleep over the question it's so difficult  ;)

Not difficult at all for me. My favorite is so obvious I didn't think to answer your question at first. It's the Espansiva, of course, and has been since 1967 when I heard Lenny's performance. And his is still the version to beat. Chung and Oramo are definitely contenders though (I agree with John), and I have a special affection for Schimdt and Bostock too. And Kuchar for his brass detail.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2015, 07:17:55 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 28, 2015, 07:09:11 AM
Not difficult at all for me. My favorite is so obvious I didn't think to answer your question at first. It's the Espansiva, of course, and has been since 1967 when I heard Lenny's performance. And his is still the version to beat. Chung and Oramo are definitely contenders though (I agree with John), and I have a special affection for Schimdt and Bostock too. And Kuchar for his brass detail.

Sarge

Yep, I knew you would choose the Espansiva, Sarge. :) I now feel guilty for picking The Inextinguishable...well...maybe guilty is the wrong word. Like I said, I love all of Nielsen's symphonies. I could have picked Symphony No. 5 just as easily as The Four Temperaments.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on July 28, 2015, 01:39:04 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 28, 2015, 07:09:11 AM
Not difficult at all for me. My favorite is so obvious I didn't think to answer your question at first. It's the Espansiva, of course, and has been since 1967 when I heard Lenny's performance. And his is still the version to beat. Chung and Oramo are definitely contenders though (I agree with John), and I have a special affection for Schimdt and Bostock too. And Kuchar for his brass detail.

Sarge

Thanks, Sarge. I've have the Chung in transit, very excited to hear it. I've grown to love the 3rd, it's fantastic.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2015, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 28, 2015, 01:39:04 PM
Thanks, Sarge. I've have the Chung in transit, very excited to hear it. I've grown to love the 3rd, it's fantastic.

Yep, the Chung really is top-drawer and very much worth your time, Greg, but so is Bernstein's and Oramo's. Do you own Bernstein's?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 28, 2015, 05:39:14 PM
I've got to say this: over the past month or so while my love of Sibelius has increased more and more, my love of Nielsen has skyrocketed. I've always liked Nielsen's music but I honestly didn't understand him or his music well enough to count him as an absolute favorite. My, oh my, how the tables have turned. Phenomenal, visionary composer.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 29, 2015, 02:11:52 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 28, 2015, 05:39:14 PM
I've got to say this: over the past month or so my love of Nielsen has skyrocketed.
Not surprising considering your activity in this thread.  :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 28, 2015, 05:39:14 PMI've always liked Nielsen's music but I honestly didn't understand him or his music well enough to count him as an absolute favorite.  My, oh my, how the tables have turned.
What changed? What made you seek for better understanding of Nielsen's music?

In general I am interested why is it so difficult to understand artists? For me Liszt has been this kind of revelation: For long I simply ignored his music until I heard the B minor Sonata.  ;D

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 28, 2015, 05:39:14 PMPhenomenal, visionary composer.
Yes, Carl Nielsen is an underrated composer (except in Denmark I guess?)

I have to say I don't listen to Nielsen very often, but when I do his music does impress me a lot. Now I am listening to Nielsen's choral works on Chandos, a CD I haven't listened to 15 years I believe!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 29, 2015, 06:27:52 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 29, 2015, 02:11:52 AMWhat changed? What made you seek for better understanding of Nielsen's music?

I guess I just decided it was high time I sit down and try to understand his music better. Again, I've always liked his music, but I didn't love it. After I rekindled my love for Sibelius, I was constantly listening to Nielsen and, I don't know, I just got into his music and finally understood it better. Reading about his life also gave me a whole new appreciation for him, which is something I never had done before. When I bought the Oramo cycle on BIS, this also helped cement this love of his music. I was then able to go back to older performances and get even more enjoyment out of them.

Quote from: 71 dB on July 29, 2015, 02:11:52 AMIn general, I am interested why is it so difficult to understand artists?

I'm not sure if I can answer this question accurately, but I will say all great artists challenge you and bend your ears in new directions. Sometimes the attraction is immediate and sometimes it's not. I suppose it all depends on how receptive you are of the music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 29, 2015, 07:12:03 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 21, 2015, 07:14:06 AM
Chung's one of my favorites. I own these. Favorites in bold. Oramo I haven't heard. Still debating whether, at my age, I need another Espansiva  ;D

Rozhdestvensky    12:44  11:06  7:06  11:04
Schmidt              12:06  10:13  6:37   9:30
Horenstein            12:04   9:57   7:33   9:59
Saraste                 12:03   8:46   5:49   9:36
Schonwandt          11:44   9:34   6:21   9:36
Bernstein            11:37   9:50   6:26   9:28
Davis                    11:28   7:26   6:29   9:18
Gilbert                  11.24   9:12   6:36  10:03
Kuchar                11:19   9:41   6:35    9:16
Salonen               11:15   9:37   6:43  10:22
Chung                 11:07  10:00  6:41    9:17
Berglund               11:00   8:21   6:19   9:33
Frandsen             10:55   8:05   6:04   8:47
Bostock               10:37    9:14   6:14   9:39
Blomstedt             10:35    9:07   6:21   9:18


Sarge

I see that Thomson's Espansiva is missing from your list, Sarge. Do you own his cycle? I just finished buying the two recordings I was missing from this cycle tonight. Can't wait to hear what he does with Nielsen as I've loved his RVW and Martinu for years.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 29, 2015, 08:46:33 PM
For some reason I really love this photo of Nielsen and his family (and the art on the wall!)!   0:)

(http://www.carlnielsen.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline_widebreakpoints_theme_nielsen2015_desktop_1x/public/images/501111_0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 29, 2015, 09:19:11 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 29, 2015, 08:46:33 PM
For some reason I really love this photo of Nielsen and his family (and the art on the wall!)!   0:)

(http://www.carlnielsen.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline_widebreakpoints_theme_nielsen2015_desktop_1x/public/images/501111_0.jpg)

A cool photo indeed. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on July 29, 2015, 09:32:44 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 25, 2015, 07:18:15 AM
GMG'rs...So what is you favorite of the 6 symphonies? And why? Favorite performance?
For me the Sixth (along with the two wind concerti), with its stripped-down aesthetic that carries Nielsen's idiosyncratic style to its extremes, and the way it sets off its moments of heartbreak, passion and sheer insanity. Then the Third for its effortless nobility and grandeur. I haven't really considered getting alternate performances (though I did pick up Schønwandt due to not liking Blomstedt's way with the Third, and it has been more satisfactory but not totally so.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 29, 2015, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: amw on July 29, 2015, 09:32:44 PM
For me the Sixth (along with the two wind concerti), with its stripped-down aesthetic that carries Nielsen's idiosyncratic style to its extremes, and the way it sets off its moments of heartbreak, passion and sheer insanity. Then the Third for its effortless nobility and grandeur. I haven't really considered getting alternate performances (though I did pick up Schønwandt due to not liking Blomstedt's way with the Third, and it has been more satisfactory but not totally so.)

Try Oramo, Bernstein, or Chung in the Espansiva.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 30, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2015, 06:27:52 AM
I guess I just decided it was high time I sit down and try to understand his music better. Again, I've always liked his music, but I didn't love it. After I rekindled my love for Sibelius, I was constantly listening to Nielsen and, I don't know, I just got into his music and finally understood it better. Reading about his life also gave me a whole new appreciation for him, which is something I never had done before. When I bought the Oramo cycle on BIS, this also helped cement this love of his music. I was then able to go back to older performances and get even more enjoyment out of them.

I have to say I don't know much about Nielsen's life. I don't seem to need that to enjoy his music.

I'm not a big Sibelius fan and I have always been pissed of about the fact Sibelius is considered much more important composer than Nielsen all over the world.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2015, 06:27:52 AMI'm not sure if I can answer this question accurately, but I will say all great artists challenge you and bend your ears in new directions. Sometimes the attraction is immediate and sometimes it's not. I suppose it all depends on how receptive you are of the music.

Accurate answers don't necessarily exist to these questions. Preconception can make us less receptive. In Nielsen's case the attraction was immediate: Hearing the fourth symphony for the first time on radio blew me away.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on July 30, 2015, 03:24:56 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 30, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
I have to say I don't know much about Nielsen's life. I don't seem to need that to enjoy his music.
I read his self biography (borrowed from the local University library) called "Mitt liv" IIRC (aka My life) and remember it as a very good read.  I think I read it in Danish (no problem for a Norwegian) and have no idea if it is available in English translation.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 30, 2015, 04:26:18 AM
Quote from: amw on July 29, 2015, 09:32:44 PM
For me the Sixth (along with the two wind concerti), with its stripped-down aesthetic that carries Nielsen's idiosyncratic style to its extremes, and the way it sets off its moments of heartbreak, passion and sheer insanity. Then the Third for its effortless nobility and grandeur. I haven't really considered getting alternate performances (though I did pick up Schønwandt due to not liking Blomstedt's way with the Third, and it has been more satisfactory but not totally so.)

Nice thumbnails of the two symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 30, 2015, 04:32:21 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 30, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
I have to say I don't know much about Nielsen's life. I don't seem to need that to enjoy his music.

That's perfectly fair.

Quote from: PojuI'm not a big Sibelius fan and I have always been pissed of about the fact Sibelius is considered much more important composer than Nielsen all over the world.

Well, as we've often discussed around GMG, "importance" is problematic.  (Was Nielsen at all an "important" composer?  I don't know that he was . . . certainly of importance to, e.g., Holmboe and Langgaard.  And I'd say that his Clarinet Concerto is perhaps the most important for the instrument after Mozart, and an important model for Corigliano.)

We all find value and beauty in the work of lesser-known composer.  It's really a bit of a hang-up, I think, to "resent" the fame of justly-famous composers.  Well, my opinion, is all.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 05:55:58 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 30, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
I have to say I don't know much about Nielsen's life. I don't seem to need that to enjoy his music.

I'm not a big Sibelius fan and I have always been pissed off about the fact Sibelius is considered much more important composer than Nielsen all over the world.

Accurate answers don't necessarily exist to these questions. Preconception can make us less receptive. In Nielsen's case the attraction was immediate: Hearing the fourth symphony for the first time on radio blew me away.

We're all wired differently and respond to music in our own ways. All I'm saying is Nielsen took a little bit more work for me to finally crack. I think being pissed off about Sibelius' 'fame' is borderline ridiculous. Does knowing Beethoven was more influential than Brahms hinder your enjoyment of either composers' music? No, I don't think it would and, if it did, that would be a wrong-headed view to uphold. This said, Nielsen was an important composer and just because Sibelius may get mentioned more often doesn't mean that he was a third-rate composer.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 06:06:44 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 30, 2015, 04:32:21 AM(Was Nielsen at all an "important" composer?  I don't know that he was . . . certainly of importance to, e.g., Holmboe and Langgaard.

Let's not forget Robert Simpson as well who was really inspired by Nielsen. I still haven't read his book on the composer (yet).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 30, 2015, 06:23:27 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 29, 2015, 07:12:03 PM
I see that Thomson's Espansiva is missing from your list, Sarge. Do you own his cycle?

I do not. I'm thinking about purchasing a download (something I rarely do) of 3.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 06:31:00 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 30, 2015, 06:23:27 AM
I do not. I'm thinking about purchasing a download (something I rarely do) of 3.

Sarge

The recording of Thomson's with Symphonies 3 & 5 can be bought for €14.59 through Chandos' site. Considering it's OOP, this is a good price and it's a real CD and not a CD-R.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 30, 2015, 06:38:34 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 06:06:44 AM
Let's not forget Robert Simpson as well who was really inspired by Nielsen.

I had forgotten, because he is nearly completely off my radar  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 30, 2015, 06:43:51 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 06:31:00 AM
The recording of Thomson's with Symphonies 3 & 5 can be bought for €14.59 through Chandos' site. Considering it's OOP, this is a good price and it's a real CD and not a CD-R.

I got the Thomson set early on, and . . . all I can say with fairness to all the parties is, I do not carry any particular recollection of it (beyond the obvious musical competency of both band and director).  I shall listen to the Espansiva from that set this afternoon.

Separately . . . not the most convenient for our Sarge, but there's a Used—Very Good copy for $6.66 plus sh/h available from a good third-party seller in Maine.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 30, 2015, 07:14:40 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 06:31:00 AM
The recording of Thomson's with Symphonies 3 & 5 can be bought for €14.59 through Chandos' site. Considering it's OOP, this is a good price and it's a real CD and not a CD-R.

Quote from: karlhenning on July 30, 2015, 06:43:51 AM
Separately . . . not the most convenient for our Sarge, but there's a Used—Very Good copy for $6.66 plus sh/h available from a good third-party seller in Maine.

Thanks for your suggestions. The reason I'm thinking download is simply to test it first before I consider adding another CD to the massive hoard I already don't have room for  ;)

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 07:18:37 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 30, 2015, 07:14:40 AM
Thanks for your suggestions. The reason I'm thinking download is simply to test it first before I consider adding another CD to the massive hoard I already don't have room for  ;)

Sarge

Here's your chance, Sarge:

https://www.youtube.com/v/cEBs9_Q4t-s
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on July 30, 2015, 07:22:59 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 07:18:37 AM
Here's your chance, Sarge:

https://www.youtube.com/v/cEBs9_Q4t-s

Cool! Thanks. You just saved me €9.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 07:24:26 AM
You're welcome, Sarge. 8)

Here's Thomson in The Inextinguishable:

https://www.youtube.com/v/fg0RXjjalAw
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 30, 2015, 08:38:43 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 30, 2015, 06:43:51 AM
I got the Thomson set early on, and . . . all I can say with fairness to all the parties is, I do not carry any particular recollection of it (beyond the obvious musical competency of both band and director).  I shall listen to the Espansiva from that set this afternoon.

I really like Catherine Bott in the Andante pastorale;  hers may be my favorite soprano tone in the various recordings I've heard.

Thomson has a curious purposefulness in parts of the Andante pastorale, and I am not sure how I feel about that.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 30, 2015, 09:20:25 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 30, 2015, 08:38:43 AM
I really like Catherine Bott in the Andante pastorale;  hers may be my favorite soprano tone in the various recordings I've heard.

Thomson has a curious purposefulness in parts of the Andante pastorale, and I am not sure how I feel about that.

Just for fun, I cued up the second and fourth movements of Lenny's recording.

I do not genuinely dislike Ruth Goldbæk in Lenny's, but she's a little "operatic" in her delivery here;  where Catherine Bott's purity of tone melts me, and feels so exquisitely in harmony with the heartbeat of the movement.

Lenny's Andante pastorale clocks in at 65 seconds longer than Thomson's;  and while we all know that it isn't necessarily about where the clock has run out, Lenny's talent for giving the music ample breadth shows, in how he sets up the magic of the entrance of the vocalise.

In the Finale, Thomson is just a little heavy-footed, just a shade of "let's be through with it," perhaps, in both the fugato preceding the final recap, and in the recap itself;  where Lenny keeps a vital undercurrent intensity there (and elsewhere).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 06:10:56 PM
I've learned that all interpretations offer something different to the perspective listener. Whether they enjoy it or not is a matter of subjectivity, but, even if I don't like what a conductor has done with this or that musical phrase or movement, I feel better for having heard their interpretation, because finding what we don't like is just as valid as finding what we do like in a performance.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 06:12:04 PM
The question is how did the Sarge like Thomson's Espansiva?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 31, 2015, 01:16:48 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 30, 2015, 04:32:21 AM
Well, as we've often discussed around GMG, "importance" is problematic.  (Was Nielsen at all an "important" composer?  I don't know that he was . . . certainly of importance to, e.g., Holmboe and Langgaard.  And I'd say that his Clarinet Concerto is perhaps the most important for the instrument after Mozart, and an important model for Corigliano.)

I mean importance to a music listener, not the importance in music history. I agree the term is problematic nevertheless.

Quote from: karlhenning on July 30, 2015, 04:32:21 AMWe all find value and beauty in the work of lesser-known composers.  It's really a bit of a hang-up, I think, to "resent" the fame of justly-famous composers.  Well, my opinion, is all.

Yes, it is, but as a human being I experience irrational feelings.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 31, 2015, 02:35:07 AM
I don't participate in the discussion of different recordings. Elgar is the only composer I have several recordings of and based on that experience collecting various performances of certain works is not my thing. Various versions just confuse me. To be honest, I do find these posts of whether Thomson is better than Bott or not uninteresting.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 05:55:58 AM
We're all wired differently and respond to music in our own ways.

Nothing makes people differ from each other more than music.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 05:55:58 AMAll I'm saying is Nielsen took a little bit more work for me to finally crack.

That's one example how music makes us different. To me Nielsen's music is very welcoming, like a funny and friendly person. Perhaps I don't understand it 100 % correctly as Nielsen intended it, but who cares when I enjoy what I hear?

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 05:55:58 AMI think being pissed off about Sibelius' 'fame' is borderline ridiculous.

I agree. Live would be easy if we could control our irrational feelings. One solution might be buying some Sibelius works I do like and that way get rid of the feelings (replace them with positive feelings). Tone Poems such as 'Nightride and Sunrise' is the kind of Sibelius I like. In fact, there is two sides of Sibelius: The symphonic Sibelius with zillions of recordings and the almost obscure Sibelius. Only a dozen of Sibelius' compositions are actually famous over the world if you think about it.

Nielsen's most famous "dozen" could be more famous imo.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 05:55:58 AMDoes knowing Beethoven was more influential than Brahms hinder your enjoyment of either composers' music?

No, because Brahms is rated high enough if not even overvalued. Even youngsters listening to hip hop may have heard of Brahms, but have they heard of Nielsen? No way in hell unless they live in Denmark.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 30, 2015, 05:55:58 AMNo, I don't think it would and, if it did, that would be a wrong-headed view to uphold. This said, Nielsen was an important composer and just because Sibelius may get mentioned more often doesn't mean that he was a third-rate composer.

The difficulty of life is getting your feelings according to the facts. Is it even necessary? I rather have rational thoughts and irrational feelings than the other way around.  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 31, 2015, 02:54:08 AM
Maybe it's terminology . . . and "irrational thoughts" are [a subset of] feelings  ;)

Quote from: 71 dB on July 31, 2015, 02:35:07 AM
I don't participate in the discussion of different recordings. Elgar is the only composer I have several recordings of and based on that experience collecting various performances of certain works is not my thing. Various versions just confuse me. To be honest, I do find these posts of whether Thomson is better than Bott or not uninteresting.

That's fine, you are not obliged to find anything that I post of interest!  (Thomson is the conductor and Bott the singer, and on the same recording, so I have not even considered how one might be better than the other  ;) )  I do think that is one of the beauties of GMG:  the interests of the virtual community as a whole are much greater than any single member could conceivably take a close interest in.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 31, 2015, 04:33:45 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on July 31, 2015, 02:54:08 AM
Maybe it's terminology . . . and "irrational thoughts" are [a subset of] feelings  ;)

I consider thoughts and feelings separate prosesses in the brain (just as hearing and seeing are different senses). However, thoughts and feelings do interact: Feelings may cause irrational thoughts as is the case with may Sibelius "syndrome" and irrational thoughts may irrational feelings. If rational thought processes are too weak to limit irrational thoughts (in my case with Sibelius I am luckily able to rationally understand that my feelings and thoughts about Sibelius are largely irrational), irrational thoughts and feelings start to feed each other in a loop and a person may become mentally unstable and in extreme cases dangerous to others (e.g. brainwashed fundamental terrorists).

Quote from: karlhenning on July 31, 2015, 02:54:08 AMThat's fine, you are not obliged to find anything that I post of interest! 

I do find many things you (and others) post interesting. Endless comparison of recordings however is not among the most interesting. Most of the cases I have not heard the performances people are talking about so it's difficult to participate. The performances I own/have heard often are not interesting to others or they have not heard them. It's like trying to discuss about chocolate: Those who don't live in Finland hardly know a certain Finnish chocolate bar that might be my favorite and I don't know much about English chocolates.

Overlapping gives an opportunity to have couple of versions of many "popular" works. For example I have two performances of Helios Overture. I don't even know which one I prefer. If someone has heard Dausgaard on Dacapo or/and Willém on Naxos, opinions can be expressed.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 31, 2015, 06:17:03 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 31, 2015, 02:35:07 AMNo, because Brahms is rated high enough if not even overvalued. Even youngsters listening to hip hop may have heard of Brahms, but have they heard of Nielsen? No way in hell unless they live in Denmark.

I don't think you understood my point: it doesn't matter who's more celebrated or who's more influential or anything of the sort. What matters is if the music is good to you and after that initial enjoyment, everything else is irrelevant. Personally, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that Sibelius gets mentioned more often than Nielsen. Both composers were different and had original things to say in music and, most importantly, I enjoy their music equally. Whether you enjoy one more than the other is purely your own personal preference.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 31, 2015, 06:45:15 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 31, 2015, 06:17:03 AM
I don't think you understood my point: it doesn't matter who's more celebrated or who's more influential or anything of the sort. What matters is if the music is good to you and after that initial enjoyment, everything else is irrelevant.

That is very true, but my feelings tend to mess up with my head.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 31, 2015, 06:17:03 AMPersonally, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that Sibelius gets mentioned more often than Nielsen.

Well, you simply don't have that problem.  :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 31, 2015, 06:17:03 AMBoth composers were different and had original things to say in music and, most importantly, I enjoy their music equally. Whether you enjoy one more than the other is purely your own personal preference.

I enjoy Nielsen's symphonies much more than Sibelius' symphonies, but Sibelius might be better of the two in "theatre music"/"tone poem" -type of works. I don't know the more obscure works of these composers well enough to have a real opinion. Perhaps 20 years from now I know better...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on July 31, 2015, 06:52:03 AM
71 dB since you like Naxos so well (and in many cases they offer fine recordings), have you heard this recording?

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.557164.jpg)

Everything on this disc is performed with a great enthusiasm and authority. A must-have for Nielsenites.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on July 31, 2015, 07:31:21 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 31, 2015, 06:52:03 AM
71 dB since you like Naxos so well (and in many cases they offer fine recordings), have you heard this recording?

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.557164.jpg)

Everything on this disc is performed with a great enthusiasm and authority. A must-have for Nielsenites.

Yes, I own that disc as I mentioned above (Helios Overture).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on July 31, 2015, 08:41:31 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 29, 2015, 02:11:52 AM
Yes, Carl Nielsen is an underrated composer (except in Denmark I guess?)

:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on July 31, 2015, 08:48:15 AM
Quote from: The new erato on July 30, 2015, 03:24:56 AM
I read his self biography (borrowed from the local University library) called "Mitt liv" IIRC (aka My life) and remember it as a very good read.  I think I read it in Danish (no problem for a Norwegian) and have no idea if it is available in English translation.

The title is: Min fynske barndom = my childhood on Funen
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on July 31, 2015, 12:33:15 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 31, 2015, 08:48:15 AM
The title is: Min fynske barndom = my childhood on Funen

There is a Danish film by Erik Clausen based on Nielsen's biography (the film is seemingly impossible to track down):

Lots of information here: http://www.dfi.dk/faktaomfilm/film/da/9344.aspx?id=9344 (http://www.dfi.dk/faktaomfilm/film/da/9344.aspx?id=9344)

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_fynske_barndom (https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_fynske_barndom)

(http://image.tmdb.org/t/p/w185/h18wmRl2xrjBGI8T7Z0IB0MM9K6.jpg)(http://www2.scanpix.eu/hfix/cgi/showimage.cgi?IMAGEID=20100204-152149-6&SIZE=620&SIZEORIENTATION=width)

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on July 31, 2015, 01:46:09 PM
Quote from: The new erato on July 30, 2015, 03:24:56 AM
I read his self biography (borrowed from the local University library) called "Mitt liv" IIRC (aka My life) and remember it as a very good read.  I think I read it in Danish (no problem for a Norwegian) and have no idea if it is available in English translation.

It is - in an old but perfectly good translation by Reginald Spink.  But it is what it says - an account of his life on Fyn up until he left for Copenhagen at the age of 18.  Perhaps there are some later diaries that will be translated and published one day - now they would make interesting reading.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on July 31, 2015, 10:18:50 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 31, 2015, 08:48:15 AM
The title is: Min fynske barndom = my childhood on Funen
Yes, that was it, it was 40 years ago I read it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on August 01, 2015, 09:24:49 AM
Very much enjoying what I've heard from this box so far (the 5th and 6th). Makes me sad that Davis isn't around, but then, this must be one of the best things he recorded - so good to "go out with a bang."

And to address Greg's earlier question, I think the Fifth is my favorite, by a very small margin. I first heard Horenstein's version years ago (gorgeous LP cover below), and was immediately taken with that snare drum part. My brother recommended some other recordings of the piece, and gradually I fell in love with it.

[asin]B00SKFJETK[/asin]

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on August 03, 2015, 01:38:24 AM
Quote from: amw on August 03, 2015, 12:59:33 AM
Dueling Chaconnes

(http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/28/13/0761203741328_300.jpg)   (http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/96/89/5709499498996_300.jpg)    (http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/28/95/0730099979528_300.jpg)   (http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/88/16/7318591671688_300.jpg)   (http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/22/74/0730099457422_300.jpg)   (http://d250ptlkmugbjz.cloudfront.net/images/covers/58/52/0094635925258_300.jpg)

- Christina Bjorkøe (A=444?) is the best recorded of the bunch and has the clearest piano playing. Her interpretations are somewhat wayward though, especially concerning rubato, which wasn't 100% to my taste
- Mina Miller's recording, extremely sensitive and fleeting and beautifully paced, was a nice surprise. Neither the instrument nor the recorded sound is particularly high quality, though, which detracts a little
- Elisabeth Westenholz would probably be the best performance overall for the first 6 minutes or so (the main body of the chaconne). She maintains the chaconne rhythm through the coda instead of relaxing, which some people will object to—it's not the kind of ethereal, floaty cloud music Miller achieves, and has more of the trademark Nielsen nervous energy. The piano sounds a bit tinny and xylophone-like in the upper registers
- Herman D. Koppel's piano sounds even more tinny and xylophonic. His interpretation is pretty 'out there' as well, being slowish and full of weirdness. Worth hearing, but I found he just didn't play quietly enough.
- Peter Seivewright is sufficiently slow and hesitant that I wondered whether he was sight-reading the piece.
- Leif Ove Andsnes turns in an interpretation that definitely attempts deep feeling. I'm somewhat doubtful how much he achieves. His playing doesn't have a lot of clarity (rhythmic/melodic) and in the end it just feels a bit insubstantial, particularly the big climax. I'm not sure whether his recording is highly viewed in piano circles.

For me personally I am considering getting rid of Roscoe and replacing it with Westenholz (as a 'reference' interpretation) and Miller (the most poetic/inward interpreter imo). I think some people would prefer Bjorkøe to one or both, you'd have to do your own sampling. Wouldn't bother with the lads, though Koppel might turn in an interesting Suite Op. 45.

edit: I misspelled Elisabeth Westenholz's name b/c I'm a dumbass
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Jo498 on August 03, 2015, 02:56:31 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on July 30, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
I have to say I don't know much about Nielsen's life. I don't seem to need that to enjoy his music.

I'm not a big Sibelius fan and I have always been pissed of about the fact Sibelius is considered much more important composer than Nielsen all over the world.
Is that really such a big difference? I agree that Sibelius is more *popular*; there is nothing by Nielsen that is even close to Sibelius' Violin concerto, the 2nd and 5th symphonies and a few smaller works (Finlandia) in popularity. But I am not sure whether he is generally considered "much more important". There used to be a "school of thought" who more or less disregarded both as local figures (and to some extent historically backward/obsolete) compared to the "modernists of the early 20th century but not any more.

FWIW, of those two I find Nielsen considerably more interesting although I got to know his music later and I think both have their share of great and also some lesser works (and neither is for me in the exalted league of e.g. Mahler or Debussy and while I am not too fond of Richard Strauss I'd also concede that he is more important) but I would not say that any of them is really "neglected" nowadays. Compare e.g. to French composers of roughly the same generation like Magnard or Roussel.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 06:48:31 AM
I think all of this talk of popularity is just nonsense. A similar question I've asked before: does knowing that Sibelius is more popular hinder a listener's enjoyment of Nielsen? No, I don't think it does and it doesn't matter who was more influential. I love both composers and both deserve equal billing in my mind. They're both highly original and inventive. No other composer sounds like either of them.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Jo498 on August 03, 2015, 07:25:56 AM
I don't think it's nonsense. It may not be very reasonable but hardly any music lover can avoid being somewhat disappointed if music he regards highly seems to be neglected. (Just watch Gurn ranting about Beethoven and later 19th century musicians eclipsing Haydn...)

And while it is of course not the "fault" of  Sibelius, I can clearly understand that someone might be slightly pissed off that e.g. Sibelius' violin concerto is hugely popular whereas Nielsen's is a dark horse. In that sense Nielsen's concerto obviously does suffer from the popularity of Sibelius's (as well as Tchaikovsky's, Prokofieff's  concerti etc.)
If anyone is to blame, though, of course not the composers, but performers who play or audiences who want to hear always the same stuff.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: ritter on August 03, 2015, 07:33:43 AM
In order not to take the "Favourite discoveries" thread too much off-topic, I answer Mirror Image's kind recommendations here....

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 07:22:32 AM
Have you explored any of Nielsen's other symphonies, concertante works, chamber music, or operas, ritter? You being an opera buff, you should check out his Saul & David and Maskarade. I haven't heard either work (I own a performance of Maskarade, though). All of his symphonic output is rewarding. Each symphony is like a world unto its' own.
Thank's for that, Mirror Image!

Perhap's you missed this (which more or less sums up my current view of Nielsen):
Quote from: ritter on July 25, 2015, 06:13:55 AM
In the height of scorching summer in Madrid, first listen to Springtime in Funen  ;). The title of the piece had always seemed very appealing, but Nielsen is only a recent discovery for me (thanks mainly to his keen proselitizers here on GMG  ;D) . I enjoyed the symphonies (the Inextiguishable and the Expansiva), I liked the Clarinet concerto very much, and found Maskerade rather cute. In this case, though, I must admit that even if I recognize a master composer's touch, I don't really like these pieces  (I've listened to Hymnus amoris as well). Purely a matter of personal taste, I suppose....  ::)

[asin]B000000AKU[/asin]
So, in a nutshell, I enjoy Nielsen and am glad to have made these discoveries, but they are not such as to really make me want to feverishly explore his output immediately...I'll take my time, so to speak.

Best regards,





Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 07:38:56 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on August 03, 2015, 07:25:56 AMIf anyone is to blame, though, of course not the composers, but performers who play or audiences who want to hear always the same stuff.

I can't blame anyone for wanting to hear music they enjoy or attending a concert with a program that interests them. If someone loves Beethoven and loves the fact that his/her local orchestra plays Beethoven at every concert, then I'm happy to hear it. If I saw Nielsen on a concert program in Atlanta, then I would attend, but, alas, I don't think this happens very often, but I'm certainly not worried about it, though. I have plenty of recordings of his music and if I'm ever in Denmark, then I'll make sure to visit at a time when Nielsen is on the Danish NSO's program. Life's too short to worry about such trivial things.

It used to bother me that one composer gets more mention than another one who I believe deserves it more, but it's just not worth worrying about for me anymore. At least I found Nielsen's music and this is all that matters to me. Everything else is out of my control.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 07:48:26 AM
Quote from: ritter on August 03, 2015, 07:33:43 AM
In order not to take the "Favourite discoveries" thread too much off-topic, I answer Mirror Image's kind recommendations here....
Thank's for that, Mirror Image!

Perhap's you missed this (which more or less sums up my current view of Nielsen):So, in a nutshell, I enjoy Nielsen and am glad to have made these discoveries, but they are not such as to really make me want to feverishly explore his output immediately...I'll take my time, so to speak.

Best regards,

Ah, but have you given yourself sufficient time to really let his idiom sink in? I used to not connect with Holmboe (or Shostakovich for that matter), but today is a different story. I think Nielsen is a tough nut to crack for some. His style is just that singular, but you liked The Inextinguishable and enjoyed the Clarinet Concerto, so there's still hope for you. ;) Putting your personal opinions aside of his choral/operatic music, have you seriously listened to any of the symphonies outside of The Inextinguishable or any other orchestral/concertante work besides the Clarinet Concerto? For me, Nielsen, like Sibelius, is at his best writing for the orchestra, although I do have a fondness for some of his chamber music like the masterful Wind Quintet. Do give the symphonies and other orchestral works a listen. You may find yourself greatly surprised.

FWIW, I really enjoy Nielsen's choral works, but I can understand how they wouldn't be to someone's taste as they don't really have that kind of sound he experimented with in his symphonies or concerti, which I suppose is why I like them, because they show his versatility. Kind of like Sibelius, for example, there are many people that just listen to the symphonies, the VC, or the tone poems, but there's much more to the composer than these works. He wrote incredible theatre music as well as vocal music. Anyway, just give him a chance to grow on you.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 03, 2015, 07:51:04 AM
Quote from: ritter on August 03, 2015, 07:33:43 AM
In order not to take the "Favourite discoveries" thread too much off-topic, I answer Mirror Image's kind recommendations here....

[...] in a nutshell, I enjoy Nielsen and am glad to have made these discoveries, but they are not such as to really make me want to feverishly explore his output immediately...I'll take my time, so to speak.

For your future consideration  :)

http://www.youtube.com/v/Ow0sYQH-8HQ
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 03, 2015, 08:48:28 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 03, 2015, 07:51:04 AM
For your future consideration  :)

Marvelous piece, that Wind 5tet. I'm listening to it now, an old LP with the Melos Ensemble.

On the question of Nielsen v. Sibelius, I think they are about equally great as composers, but very different in style and personality. I think of Nielsen as a humanist and Sibelius as a nature mystic (though of course these are not exclusive categories).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 03, 2015, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 03, 2015, 08:48:28 AM
Marvelous piece, that Wind 5tet. I'm listening to it now, an old LP with the Melos Ensemble.

I think I may have that one in the Icon reissue box.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 11:05:07 AM
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 03, 2015, 08:48:28 AMOn the question of Nielsen v. Sibelius, I think they are about equally great as composers, but very different in style and personality. I think of Nielsen as a humanist and Sibelius as a nature mystic (though of course these are not exclusive categories).

I won't argue with this and I agree: both composers are completely different from each other.

Here's a nice little video with Thomas Dausgaard talking about Nielsen:

https://www.youtube.com/v/Fp94eSerLvw
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 06:06:57 PM
Does anyone know the reasoning behind Bernstein not recording the first and sixth symphonies?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 09:53:07 PM
A bit about my experience with Nielsen's music this year:

It took me about six years to come to grips with Nielsen's idiom. For some, the attraction to the music is immediate, but, for me, I had to work at it. I was allured by his sound-world but I didn't love it. This year, Nielsen's 150th Anniversary of his birth nonetheless, I finally cracked this music wide-open. Nielsen draws from many sources: Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Danish folk music, but this is all projected through his own unique lens and the result is something a bit off-the-wall, passionate, emotionally absorbing, half sweet, half sour, but, ultimately, his music was a reflection of who he was like all the great composers. His compositional voice is one of defiance and challenging traditional notions of symphonic music. I'm glad I never stopped listening. Great things do come to those who are patient enough to wait for it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on August 03, 2015, 11:31:45 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 03, 2015, 09:53:07 PM
A bit about my experience with Nielsen's music this year:

It took me about six years to come to grips with Nielsen's idiom. For some, the attraction to the music is immediate, but, for me, I had to work at it. I was allured by his sound-world but I didn't love it. This year, Nielsen's 150th Anniversary of his birth nonetheless, I finally cracked this music wide-open. Nielsen draws from many sources: Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Danish folk music, but this is all projected through his own unique lens and the result is something a bit off-the-wall, passionate, emotionally absorbing, half sweet, half sour, but, ultimately, his music was a reflection of who he was like all the great composers. His compositional voice is one of defiance and challenging traditional notions of symphonic music. I'm glad I never stopped listening. Great things do come to those who are patient enough to wait for it.
We're all different. I remember being blown over in 1974 (at 23) hearing  my first Nielsen work ever, Bernstein's Espansiva - my girlfriend at the time was a music student and I followed some of her classes out of (personal and musical) interest. I was an engineering student at the time and blew some of my own classes to be with her and her class and get some expansion of my musical tastes at the same time.

Bartok's quartets and Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande are some of my other vivid memories of discovery from the same time and the same class. Of course, being a university, they had a wonderful record collection at a time when records and classical music wasn't a given. Have been a Nielsen addict (and a classical music hoarder) ever since.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 04, 2015, 03:38:07 AM
Quote from: The new erato on August 03, 2015, 11:31:45 PM
We're all different. I remember being blown over in 1974 (at 23) hearing  my first Nielsen work ever, Bernstein's Espansiva - my girlfriend at the time was a music student and I followed some of her classes out of (personal and musical) interest. I was an engineering student at the time and blew some of my own classes to be with her and her class and get some expanison of my musical tastes at the same time.

Bartok's quartets and Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande are some of my other vivid memories of discovery from the same time and the same class. Of course, being a university, they had a wonderful record collection at a time when records and classical music wasn't a given. Have been a Nielsen addict (and a classical music hoarder) ever since.

Most interesting!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2015, 05:53:34 AM
Quote from: The new erato on August 03, 2015, 11:31:45 PM
We're all different. I remember being blown over in 1974 (at 23) hearing  my first Nielsen work ever, Bernstein's Espansiva - my girlfriend at the time was a music student and I followed some of her classes out of (personal and musical) interest. I was an engineering student at the time and blew some of my own classes to be with her and her class and get some expansion of my musical tastes at the same time.

Bartok's quartets and Debussy's Pelleas and Melisande are some of my other vivid memories of discovery from the same time and the same class. Of course, being a university, they had a wonderful record collection at a time when records and classical music wasn't a given. Have been a Nielsen addict (and a classical music hoarder) ever since.

I wish I had a girlfriend like that! ;) ;D But, yes, we all respond to music differently. I will say the first symphony of Nielsen's to really get under my skin was The Four Temperaments, which I mentioned a few pages back.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 04, 2015, 06:11:43 AM
I don't think that defiance works as a general description of Nielsen's compositional voice . . . does not at all suit (for example) the Three Motets, Op.55, nor our collective favorite Andante pastorale from the Sinfonia espansiva, nor the Wind Quintet, Op.43, nor the courtly charm of the Poco allegretto from Det uudslukkelige, nor the celebration of the sunrise which is the Helios Overture, nor the bumptious finale of the Flute Concerto, nor the rugged good spirits of the Eb String Quartet, Op.14 (whose Finale is marked Allegro coraggioso), nor the sumptuous textures of Søvnen . . . you get the idea.

Independence, Self-Reliance (how very Emerson  8) ), yes . . . and one can point to individual pieces or movements which support the thesis of Defiance, of course.  To be sure, no one adjective will serve to describe the work of any great artist.  But you will pardon me for considering defiant as really quite deficient here.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2015, 06:16:06 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 04, 2015, 06:11:43 AM
I don't think that defiance works as a general description of Nielsen's compositional voice . . . does not at all suit (for example) the Three Motets, Op.55, nor our collective favorite Andante pastorale from the Sinfonia espansiva, nor the Wind Quintet, Op.43, nor the courtly charm of the Poco allegretto from Det uudslukkelige, nor the celebration of the sunrise which is the Helios Overture, nor the bumptious finale of the Flute Concerto, nor the rugged good spirits of the Eb String Quartet, Op.14 (whose Finale is marked Allegro coraggioso), nor the sumptuous textures of Søvnen . . . you get the idea.

Independence, Self-Reliance (how very Emerson  8) ), yes . . . and one can point to individual pieces or movements which support the thesis of Defiance, of course.  To be sure, no one adjective will serve to describe the work of any great artist.  But you will pardon me for considering defiant as really quite deficient here.

I only used the word defiance in the sense that Nielsen went his own way as a composer and was a man who seemed to not compromise on what he wanted to do. Personally, I don't see how any one could refute this point.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2015, 06:20:51 AM
But....I do agree that Nielsen can't be summed up so easily, but I sure as hell tried, didn't I? ;) ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 04, 2015, 06:25:03 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 04, 2015, 06:16:06 AM
I only used the word defiance in the sense that Nielsen went his own way as a composer and was a man who seemed to not compromise on what wanted to do. Personally, I don't see how any one could refute this point.

I refute that Defiance is the right word for "going one's own way as a composer"  ;)  (Independence, as I suggested, is better).  He certainly did not need to defy the musical establishment in Denmark:  he was one of them.  (We might say that was part of Langgaard's quarrel.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 04, 2015, 06:28:15 AM
Per this:

Quote from: karlhenning on August 04, 2015, 06:18:32 AM
One of my very favorite composers:

Nielsen
String Quartet № 3 in Eb, Op.14 FS 23 (1897-98)
Danish String Quartet


This does not sound like a typical "late 19th-c. string quartet."  (Just saying.)

I did a double-take when I saw the date of composition.  The outer movements have a cheeriness which seems more reminiscent of Haydn.  The Andante sostenuto, though, while it is not chromatic in the manner of the Zeitgeist, is certainly warmly Romantic in manner.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2015, 06:32:02 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 04, 2015, 06:25:03 AM
I refute that Defiance is the right word for "going one's own way as a composer"  ;)  (Independence, as I suggested, is better).  He certainly did not need to defy the musical establishment in Denmark:  he was one of them.  (We might say that was part of Langgaard's quarrel.)

But isn't defiance a part of not making any musical compromises?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2015, 07:01:06 AM
Also, after watching a documentary on Nielsen, I get the sense that Nielsen, in his own way, did not like the state of the current Danish musical establishment or at least the one that Niels Gade had built before him. So this idea of tearing down foundations and forging new paths is a part of what made think of the word defiant.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on August 04, 2015, 07:56:36 PM
Rozhdestvensky's mostly broader paced take on Nielsen works wonders on No.2 and especially No.5. In fact, it might be the best 5th I've listened to. To me, No.5 is the Nielsen symphony that benefits the most from Rozhdestvensky's approach. There's more time for the music to breath and develop, and that's a huge advantage for this wonderful piece.
The entire set is very well done, but my only quibble is the 4th's finale, it just doesn't carry the intensity that I prefer. But overall it's a winner, and will contrast nicely to rest of my Nielsen collection.

[asin]B0006AZPZY[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2015, 08:11:42 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 04, 2015, 07:56:36 PM
Rozhdestvensky's mostly broader paced take on Nielsen works wonders on No.2 and especially No.5. In fact, it might be the best 5th I've listened to. To me, No.5 is the Nielsen symphony that benefits the most from Rozhdestvensky's approach. There's more time for the music to breath and develop, and that's a huge advantage for this wonderful piece.
The entire set is very well done, but my only quibble is the 4th's finale, it just doesn't carry the intensity that I prefer. But overall it's a winner, and will contrast nicely to rest of my Nielsen collection.

[asin]B0006AZPZY[/asin]

Good to read, Greg. If I recall, I enjoyed Rozhdestvensky's 3rd and 6th a good bit, but I haven't listened to any of his cycle in ages. It's quite difficult to beat Blomstedt/SFSO and Chung/Gothenburg SO in the 2nd and Blomstedt/SFSO and Martinon/CSO in the 4th. For the 6th, I have yet to hear anyone better Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO. It seems his vision of the symphony holds together the best and he keeps a steady narrative going, which isn't always easy in the 6th.  The 1st is also handled extremely well by Oramo. The 3rd and 5th are still Bernstein's, although there have been several great performances of both of these symphonies (Oramo, Chung in the 3rd and Blomstedt/SFSO, Schonwandt/Danish NSO in the 5th). Anyway, that's my two measly cents. ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on August 06, 2015, 05:23:57 PM
Pulled this from Wikipedia about the final movement from Symphony No. 2...

I have tried to sketch a man who storms thoughtlessly forward in the belief that the whole world belongs to him, that fried pigeons will fly into his mouth without work or bother. There is, though, a moment in which something scares him, and he gasps all at once for breath in rough syncopations: but this is soon forgotten, and even if the music turns to minor, his cheery, rather superficial nature still asserts itself.

I never have read too much on the composition history of "The Four Temperaments", but was really pleased after seeing this as I've been fascinated with the sudden atmospheric shift musically midway through the movement. The four movements create quite a contrast and again I really like how Rozhdestvensky takes his time with this one.
I also have Blomstedt (which isn't as complete sounding after hearing Rozhdestvensky), Glibert and Oramo. Any other Temperament recs? Perhaps Chung? Who offers a compelling Espansiva.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 06, 2015, 06:07:11 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 06, 2015, 05:23:57 PM
Pulled this from Wikipedia about the final movement from Symphony No. 2...

I have tried to sketch a man who storms thoughtlessly forward in the belief that the whole world belongs to him, that fried pigeons will fly into his mouth without work or bother. There is, though, a moment in which something scares him, and he gasps all at once for breath in rough syncopations: but this is soon forgotten, and even if the music turns to minor, his cheery, rather superficial nature still asserts itself.

I never have read too much on the composition history of "The Four Temperaments", but was really pleased after seeing this as I've been fascinated with the sudden atmospheric shift musically midway through the movement. The four movements create quite a contrast and again I really like how Rozhdestvensky takes his time with this one.
I also have Blomstedt (which isn't as complete sounding after hearing Rozhdestvensky), Glibert and Oramo. Any other Temperament recs? Perhaps Chung? Who offers a compelling Espansiva.

Yes, The Four Temperaments is a very good symphony. I like Chung's and Bernstein's in addition to Blomstedt's (SFSO).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on August 07, 2015, 02:27:16 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 06, 2015, 05:23:57 PM
Pulled this from Wikipedia about the final movement from Symphony No. 2...

I have tried to sketch a man who storms thoughtlessly forward in the belief that the whole world belongs to him, that fried pigeons will fly into his mouth without work or bother. There is, though, a moment in which something scares him, and he gasps all at once for breath in rough syncopations: but this is soon forgotten, and even if the music turns to minor, his cheery, rather superficial nature still asserts itself.

I never have read too much on the composition history of "The Four Temperaments", but was really pleased after seeing this as I've been fascinated with the sudden atmospheric shift musically midway through the movement. The four movements create quite a contrast and again I really like how Rozhdestvensky takes his time with this one.
I do love the image of fried pigeons flying directly into the dude's mouth. To me, that last movement always sounded a lot like a small, floppy-eared dog that's been allowed outside for the first time in the day. Constant running around everywhere well beyond the capacity of any accompanying humans to keep up with him, demanding everyone throw tennis balls for him to catch, briefly getting all contemplative and lying down in the sun to contemplate dog philosophy or something, then being distracted by I dunno, a squirrel or something and jumping right back into action. Eventually, he runs out of energy and marches back home in an incredibly dignified manner (apart from the occasional stop to sniff a fire hydrant or tree or something).

Nielsen said the second movement (I think?) was a portrait of a lazy spoiled teenager, loved by everyone, who skips school all the time to relax near the water or whatever. I imagine that the thematically related third movement is the same teenager's reaction to being grounded by his parents for doing so. "My parents are so dumb and will never truly understand me! I'm going to dye my hair black and write poetry about death"
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2015, 06:17:58 PM
I try not to put too much into what a composer says about one of their compositions as everyone will feel something completely different whenever they listen to the music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: James The 1st on August 13, 2015, 09:27:30 PM
I only started listening to Nielsen's symphonies recently and dang they are good. The 5th is really good, I wish the local orchestra would play it, because hearing live would be awesome.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 14, 2015, 06:45:06 AM
Quote from: James The 1st on August 13, 2015, 09:27:30 PM
I only started listening to Nielsen's symphonies recently and dang they are good. The 5th is really good, I wish the local orchestra would play it, because hearing live would be awesome.

Yeah, the 5th is a fantastic work no question about it. I would say all of the symphonies make a strong case for Nielsen. One symphony which seems to puzzle people is the 6th ("Sinfonia Semplice"). I love the quirkiness of it, but there are several moments of introspective beauty and I would say some personal 'confession' or perhaps some kind of sigh of relief. Anyway, it's good meet another Nielsenite. 8) Oh...and welcome aboard! Never seen you here before.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: relm1 on August 15, 2015, 01:10:57 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2015, 06:17:58 PM
I try not to put too much into what a composer says about one of their compositions as everyone will feel something completely different whenever they listen to the music.
As a composer, I don't put much weight in what someone says in the forum. I trust what I feel about their post instead.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 15, 2015, 06:25:24 AM
Quote from: relm1 on August 15, 2015, 01:10:57 AM
As a composer, I don't put much weight in what someone says in the forum.

Then why post here? ???
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on August 15, 2015, 06:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 15, 2015, 06:25:24 AM
Then why post here? ???

I don't think you got relm1's jokey analogy. Read it again carefully.  ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 15, 2015, 06:55:34 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on August 15, 2015, 06:40:45 AM
I don't think you got relm1's jokey analogy. Read it again carefully.  ;)

:D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 15, 2015, 06:58:42 AM
Anyway, back to Nielsen...

Has anyone heard this?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yJ0MMAa1L.jpg)

The idea of Barbirolli conducting Nielsen's Inextinguishable sounds good on paper, but does the performance hold up? That's the question.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on August 15, 2015, 08:57:14 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 15, 2015, 06:58:42 AM
Anyway, back to Nielsen...

Has anyone heard this?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yJ0MMAa1L.jpg)

The idea of Barbirolli conducting Nielsen's Inextinguishable sounds good on paper, but does the performance hold up? That's the question.

I was blown away by his Sibelius set, which I was not expecting. And I would love to hear his take on Nielsen. Let us know, John.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on August 18, 2015, 08:32:50 AM
Nielsen's various piano pieces is what I seem to come back to most often.   :)  They are remarkable!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 18, 2015, 08:34:07 AM
Glad you enjoy them as much as do I, mon cher!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Camphy on October 27, 2015, 06:32:34 AM
Carl Nielsen is composer of the week at BBC Radio 3:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tnxf

Amazon.de lists a new recording of the symphonies by Paavo Järvi & the Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra on RCA, scheduled for a release in December.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on October 27, 2015, 07:32:08 AM
Too bad the cycle is with Paavo. I mean he's a pretty good conductor, but he's someone who I have felt has stretched themselves a bit thin by covering so many composers instead of focusing on a select group. A lot of conductors champion certain composers as well, I wonder who Jarvi has championed? Arvo Part? Perhaps.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 27, 2015, 08:06:36 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2015, 07:32:08 AM
I wonder who Jarvi has championed?

He champions the one he's sees in the mirror.

(http://pbs.bento.storage.s3.amazonaws.com/hostedbento-prod/filer_public/CET_Images/Online/Paavo_Jarvi.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brian on October 27, 2015, 08:16:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 27, 2015, 07:32:08 AM
Too bad the cycle is with Paavo. I mean he's a pretty good conductor, but he's someone who I have felt has stretched themselves a bit thin by covering so many composers instead of focusing on a select group. A lot of conductors champion certain composers as well, I wonder who Jarvi has championed? Arvo Part? Perhaps.
Well if you look at his Cincinnati Symphony series on Telarc, you get a good idea. He's brought that orchestra to Martinu, Tubin, and Tuur.

Also, on the whole, Paavo is a far better conductor than his father, with a better track record. I don't like his Poulenc, but that's the only real "miss" of his that I've heard so far. Whereas Daddy Jarvi would conduct literally anything post-Liszt, provided he didn't need to show a feel for it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on October 28, 2015, 02:13:09 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 27, 2015, 08:06:36 AM
He champions the one he's sees in the mirror.

(http://pbs.bento.storage.s3.amazonaws.com/hostedbento-prod/filer_public/CET_Images/Online/Paavo_Jarvi.jpg)

Hah! :P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on October 28, 2015, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: Brian on October 27, 2015, 08:16:45 AM
Well if you look at his Cincinnati Symphony series on Telarc, you get a good idea. He's brought that orchestra to Martinu, Tubin, and Tuur.

Also, on the whole, Paavo is a far better conductor than his father, with a better track record. I don't like his Poulenc, but that's the only real "miss" of his that I've heard so far. Whereas Daddy Jarvi would conduct literally anything post-Liszt, provided he didn't need to show a feel for it.

I know your opinion of Neeme (a conductor I actually enjoy on some occasions --- his Prokofiev being my favorite anything from him). I'm not sure if I agree with Paavo being a 'better' anything than anyone. :) I remember hearing his Ravel, Nielsen, Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, among others and being thoroughly disappointed by the almost lethargic approach he took with those composers. Definitely not up my alley at all. He redeems himself with his Part and several of his Sibelius recordings, but, as I said, he's not a bad conductor, just not one I rate too highly. I actually don't rate his father that highly either, but I'm not going to launch into the reasons as this is the Nielsen thread and not the Jarvi thread.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on November 10, 2015, 09:42:58 PM
It's only taken 35 years after first hearing Nielsen's music for me to get around to listening to Saul and David.

I'm listening to the Horenstein recording in English and enjoying it enormously. With opera I get bored with opera composers' standard patterns and accompaniments, so it's a relief to listen to real composers like Nielsen, Mozart, Janacek, Mussorgsky, Vaughan Williams, Havergal Brian &c composing opera, because their orchestral writing is so inventive, as is Nielsen's here. So many felicitous sounds and textures are heard (just one example, the solo cello in the Witch of Endor scene, such a pity Nielsen didn't write a Cello Concerto, or Sonata).

The musical movement is very clear, of course, and the idea of having two or three big blocks of music in each Act has the effect of making the music symphonic.

The only problem with the Horenstein recording is the ancient sound and Boris Christoff singing wonderfully, but mispronouncing English so badly. (I guess they thought him mispronouncing English would go down better in Copenhagen than him mispronouncing Danish in Copenhagen). I'm wondering if I ought to get the Neema Jaarvi recording (in Danish). How does that compare?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on November 10, 2015, 10:37:21 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on November 10, 2015, 09:42:58 PM
I'm wondering if I ought to get the Neema Jaarvi recording (in Danish). How does that compare?
I cannot compare, but that is a very fine recording, dynamic and powerful, just like Nielsen's Music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Christo on November 18, 2015, 06:02:11 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on November 10, 2015, 09:42:58 PMWith opera I get bored with opera composers' standard patterns and accompaniments, so it's a relief to listen to real composers like Nielsen, Mozart, Janacek, Mussorgsky, Vaughan Williams, Havergal Brian &c composing opera, because their orchestral writing is so inventive, as is Nielsen's here.

Somebody had to (dare to) say it!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on November 18, 2015, 12:50:58 PM
This very fine boxed set restores Berglund's Bournemouth SO recording of Nielsen's 5th Symphony. It is one of the very greatest performances and has long been unavailable. I'm not sure that it was ever on CD and if so not for decades. The set has many gems including a very sibelian version of Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony:
[asin]B00DKAH74Y[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on November 18, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on November 18, 2015, 12:50:58 PM
This very fine boxed set restores Berglund's Bournemouth SO recording of Nielsen's 5th Symphony. It is one of the very greatest performances and has long been unavailable. I'm not sure that it was ever on CD and if so not for decades. The set has many gems including a very sibelian version of Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony:
[asin]B00DKAH74Y[/asin]

Have you heard Kubelik's live Nielsen 5th, Jeffrey? Absolute scorcher.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on November 18, 2015, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
Have you heard Kubelik's live Nielsen 5th, Jeffrey? Absolute scorcher.
Hi John, I have a Kubelik version on EMI with Sibelius works but this may not be the one you mean. Hang on a minute...I think that I may have another Kubelik version on one of the BBC labels, maybe that is the one you mean...actually, come to think of it, I think that the BBC version is conducted by Horenstein.  ::)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on November 18, 2015, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on November 18, 2015, 02:34:03 PM
Hi John, I have a Kubelik version on EMI with Sibelius works but this may not be the one you mean. Hang on a minute...I think that I may have another Kubelik version on one of the BBC labels, maybe that is the one you mean...actually I think that the BBC version is conducted by Horenstein.  ::)

Yes, the Kubelik on EMI is the one I'm referring to. It's a great performance IMHO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on November 19, 2015, 10:52:18 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 18, 2015, 02:38:08 PM
Yes, the Kubelik on EMI is the one I'm referring to. It's a great performance IMHO.
Yes, it's a great CD as I think it also features the best recording of Luonnotar.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Camphy on November 20, 2015, 08:59:01 AM
Cover art for this new release:

[asin]B016Z8K956[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Camphy on December 09, 2015, 09:21:11 AM
Lovely reminiscences about John McCabe's recording sessions of Haydn, Grieg and Nielsen, written by his wife Monica:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/gramophone-guest-blog/remembering-john-mccabes-haydn-grieg-and-nielsen-recording-sessions
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on January 30, 2016, 08:36:14 AM
I don't think this

[asin]B000000A8O[/asin]

has had a mention since the first page of this thread - I got it in my local Oxfam shop yesterday and like it a lot.  Recording a bit distant, timps especially a bit muffled (although mine is an earlier issue, with a much nicer cover, looking a bit like one of the windows from Coventry cathedral), but increasingly convincing as it goes on, feeling all very structurally "right".  Also has a splendid side-drum cadenza, complete with rim-shots and whatever it's called when the sticks are bashed together.  Even with the less-than-perfect sound, the brass has a vicious bite, and the end is especially invigorating, with as little as possible no rit. up to the final chord (poco a poco allargando, the score says; not much poco here).  99p well spent.  Helios and the Sibelius items are also more than OK, and there's a laugh in the notes, where Vårsång is described as the "Finnish" title of Spring Song - an error reproduced faithfully in both French and German translations.  You think someone would have noticed...

Got this at the same time too:

[asin]B000QQP1DY[/asin]

(who's throwing out all their Nielsen?)  Also very good - Seivewright could perhaps be a bit more light-fingered in some of the Bagatelles, but the Chaconne and Theme & Variations are mighty impressive.  The Symphonic Suite sounds like a boxing match, as usual.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on March 05, 2016, 02:17:19 PM
I can't remember whether I've mentioned this here before, but all Nielsenites will be familiar with the old Ib Eriksson/Mogens Wøldike recording of the Clarinet Concerto from 1954, and yet a while ago when I decided to upgrade from my old Decca Eclipse LP to a CD transfer and bought:

[asin]B000003LNX[/asin]

I was quite disappointed to find that this was not the same performance as on the LP and, to my humble ears, not such a good one.  A browse through the contents of Danacord's 30-CD historical set here: http://danacordbutik.dk/product_info.php?products_id=33115 (http://danacordbutik.dk/product_info.php?products_id=33115) confirms this: there's a live performance (25:12) and a studio recording (26:42).  Annoyingly, it seems to be the live performance that gets onto the affordable reissues, while the much superior (much more accurate playing by Eriksson) studio version is hidden away in this megabox.  Both are on Spotify, if anyone is interesting in comparing.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on March 05, 2016, 03:30:18 PM
Quote from: DaveF on January 30, 2016, 08:36:14 AM
I don't think this

[asin]B000000A8O[/asin]

has had a mention since the first page of this thread - I got it in my local Oxfam shop yesterday and like it a lot.  Recording a bit distant, timps especially a bit muffled (although mine is an earlier issue, with a much nicer cover, looking a bit like one of the windows from Coventry cathedral), but increasingly convincing as it goes on, feeling all very structurally "right".  Also has a splendid side-drum cadenza, complete with rim-shots and whatever it's called when the sticks are bashed together.  Even with the less-than-perfect sound, the brass has a vicious bite, and the end is especially invigorating, with as little as possible no rit. up to the final chord (poco a poco allargando, the score says; not much poco here).  99p well spent.  Helios and the Sibelius items are also more than OK, and there's a laugh in the notes, where Vårsång is described as the "Finnish" title of Spring Song - an error reproduced faithfully in both French and German translations.  You think someone would have noticed...

Got this at the same time too:

[asin]B000QQP1DY[/asin]

(who's throwing out all their Nielsen?)  Also very good - Seivewright could perhaps be a bit more light-fingered in some of the Bagatelles, but the Chaconne and Theme & Variations are mighty impressive.  The Symphonic Suite sounds like a boxing match, as usual.
The Alexander Gibson Nielsen symphonies (4 and 5) were both excellent and underrated as were his Sibelius recordings and his version of Vaughan Williams Symphony 5.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on March 09, 2016, 12:59:18 PM
Something else I've come rather late to as a confirmed Nielsenite:

[asin]B0000044CY[/asin]

The Clarinet Concerto is pretty good - Cahuzac's performance is not as risky as Eriksson's, but the sound is no worse (recorded 8 years earlier), apart perhaps from a side-drum that wanders about a bit, sometimes under your nose and at others inaudibly distant.  Cahuzac himself makes a lovely, if slightly unvaried, sound.  Sadly, nothing much good to say about the Serenata in Vano and the Quintet - the bassoonist of Nielsen's favourite quintet is notably inept, from the fluffs in his semiquaver runs at the start of the quintet to his apparent inability to play in a regular 9/8 in his solo variation.  The complete lack of repeats in the quintet - not only 1st movement exposition but any at all in the minuet - is also slightly disconcerting - something to do with 78s, possibly.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 02, 2016, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: Camphy on November 20, 2015, 08:59:01 AM
Cover art for this new release:

[asin]B016Z8K956[/asin]

I haven't heard much about this particular set, but knowing how his father disappointed me in Nielsen with the only exception being an excellent miscellaneous orchestral works recording on DG, I've been leery of that set.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 02, 2016, 07:28:33 PM
What does everyone think of Vanska's symphony cycle on BIS? I recall it being decent, but I haven't heard it in years. Any standout performances?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71e8-hm71kL._SL1050_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2016, 03:25:42 PM
Flute Concerto, FS 119

(http://reversehomesickness.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/coastal-landscape-denmarkCoast_Denmark.jpg)

Nielsen was never much interested in writing a concerto on a heroic scale, saving his weightier material for his symphonies. As a result, each of his three concertos -- for violin, flute and clarinet -- are more or less intimate in character. If the Violin Concerto (1911) reflects an essentially traditional stylistic and harmonic outlook, the succeeding Flute Concerto mirrors the more modernistic currents of the 1920s.

This late work contains few real formal innovations; however, it is characterized by a conspicuous lack of tonal stability. Indeed, the first movement, marked Allegro moderato, seems to spend all of its time searching for a key center, beginning with a discordant sixteenth note theme in the violins. At first, D minor seems to be favored, but assertive themes in E flat minor and F major ensue, only to be followed by a dissonant, quasi-developmental section. Here, Nielsen interjects a coarse solo trombone part in an attempt to disrupt the demure proceedings. Eventually a new idea floats out radiantly on the solo flute, a simple cantabile melody in E major. This is quickly disturbed, however, and when the flute tries to reach it again in a cadenza, the orchestra contradicts it with a recapitulation of the opening themes. A brief second cadenza leads to a coda in the calming yet still uncertain key in G flat major.

While G flat is the relative of the initial E flat minor, it sounds unconvincing, as D minor and F major have been so much in evidence throughout the first movement. Thus, a second movement is needed. The movement begins with a charming melody in G major and proceeds with a rondo-like alternation between a 2/4 Allegretto section and a 3/4 Adagio section, leading to a culminating 6/8 Tempo di marcia, which is essentially a dance-like variation on the opening G major melody. Yet it is E major to which the movement really gravitates, and in a brilliant stroke, Nielsen brings back the bass trombone to provide the final tonal impetus, with a series of burlesque glissandi.

The Flute Concerto was composed for and premiered by the flautist Gilbert Jespersen.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is one of my favorite pieces of music...ever. I love it so much. There are a plethora of emotional temperatures displayed throughout the work. Does anyone have a favorite performance? Mine is Patrick Gallois/Chung on BIS. It doesn't get much better than this IMHO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 05:06:36 AM
Rattle talking about Nielsen:

https://www.youtube.com/v/-uHphR0KhYc
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 05:08:10 AM
Review I wrote on Oramo's recording of Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3:

(http://onebitaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/oramo_nielsen_1_3.jpg)

Title: Thrilling Nielsen From Oramo!

After listening to Oramo's Nielsen cycle many times, I've concluded that this is the best cycle of recent times. Far surpassing Gilbert, Järvi, and Storgårds. One of the more remarkable qualities of these performances is the amount of enthusiasm, emotional drive, incisiveness, and level of commitment Oramo brings to the performances. He is the yin to Rozhdestvensky's yang in terms of briskness and general attitude about tempi, but don't let this be a make/break decision. Make no mistake this is prime Nielsen in a time we need more performances as last year marked the 150th anniversary of Nielsen's birth (born in 1865).

Now more about this particular recording in Oramo's series: "Symphony No. 1" is brilliant performed and is one of the best on record (along with Chung's). While there may be some 'spot the influences' here and there, this is still unmistakably Nielsen from start to finish. I think it's one heck of a symphony and each time I hear it I remain engaged from start to finish. Of course, "Symphony No. 3 ("Sinfonia Espansiva")" is where we hear the composer working in his mature style. One could view "Symphony No. 3" as his 'pastoral symphony' or whatever and I certainly wouldn't refute that viewpoint. It does show a more lyrical side of his music, especially that serene "Andante pastorale" with the two vocalists providing an ethereal soundscape for the listener to dream in. This symphony isn't without its more raucous moments: the first, third, and final movements containing the more aggressive music. Of all of Nielsen's six symphonies, the "Espansiva" took me the longest to appreciate. Many would cite his "Symphony No. 6 ("Sinfonia Semplice")" as the toughest nut to crack, but I didn't really have any problems with it as I'm quite comfortable with composers dabbling in more Modernist styles. Anyway, I think the "Espansiva" is my favorite symphony right now (this could change at any moment as I love them all so much). Perhaps you'll appreciate the symphony more than I did on first-hearing? The performances from the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic and the audio engineering couldn't be at a higher level than what's on display here.

I highly recommend Oramo's cycle, especially if you're looking to find a conductor who seems to understand the music on a deeper level, which the two afore mentioned current cycles fail to do.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 06:46:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 05:08:10 AM
After listening to Oramo's Nielsen cycle many times, I've concluded that this is the best cycle of recent times.

Too bad these are BIS discs meaning they will never become cheap, new or used.  :(

Anyway, I am happy with my Leaper cycle and there is no need to look elsewhere...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 07:09:11 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 06:46:45 AM
Too bad these are BIS discs meaning they will never become cheap, new or used.  :(

Anyway, I am happy with my Leaper cycle and there is no need to look elsewhere...

Leaper is mediocre at best IMHO as I've heard his Symphonies 3 & 4 performances and that was enough. Plus, I didn't really suggest that you should buy another cycle anyway. :-\ As far as the expense of BIS recordings is concerned, oh well...I've been lucky to have found a lot of their recordings for good prices through the years.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 07:09:11 AM
Leaper is mediocre at best IMHO as I've heard his Symphonies 3 & 4 performances and that was enough.
Fortunately his mediocrity does not stop me from enjoying the music, which is excellent in Nielsen's case.  :)

Nobody ever says anything positive about Leaper, but somehow I have never had problem with him and I have quite a many Leaper discs since Naxos has used him a lot. Perhaps Klaus Heymann and I are his only fans?  ;D

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 07:09:11 AMPlus, I didn't really suggest that you should buy another cycle anyway. :-\
That's true. I read is between the lines myself.  0:)

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 07:09:11 AMAs far as the expense of BIS recordings is concerned, oh well...I've been lucky to have found a lot of their recordings for good prices through the years.
That's nice. One way to deal with the prices is to pay what is asked, but buy less. I have the Suzuki Bach cantata cycle to finish (volumes 51, 52, 53 and 54) and then there's the secular cantatas (I have the first two volumes of those).

Anyway, thanks for informing us that the Oramo cycle kicks ass. Maybe I buy the one containing #4, since it's my favorite, to experience the multichannel version (awesome with headphones Lt/Rt-downmixed and crossfed). They ask £10.30+shipping for it at the moment (typical BIS price). Spotify?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMFortunately his mediocrity does not stop me from enjoying the music, which is excellent in Nielsen's case.  :)

Nobody ever says anything positive about Leaper, but somehow I have never had problem with him and I have quite a many Leaper discs since Naxos has used him a lot. Perhaps Klaus Heymann and I are his only fans?  ;D

I don't think Leaper is a bad conductor per se. It's just I found nothing remotely exciting or different about the performances I've heard, especially compared to his illustrious competition (i. e. Bernstein, Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, Chung, Schmidt, etc.).

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMThat's true. I read is between the lines myself.  0:)

How about reading what is actually written and not what you perceive to be written? :)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMThat's nice. One way to deal with the prices is to pay what is asked, but buy less. I have the Suzuki Bach cantata cycle to finish (volumes 51, 52, 53 and 54) and then there's the secular cantatas (I have the first two volumes of those).

I seldom pay the full price, so I'm not too worried about it. I'll buy what I feel I want and need, but I'll always be sure I get a good deal on it in the process.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2016, 09:37:59 AMAnyway, thanks for informing us that the Oramo cycle kicks ass. Maybe I buy the one containing #4, since it's my favorite, to experience the multichannel version (awesome with headphones Lt/Rt-downmixed and crossfed). They ask £10.30+shipping for it at the moment (typical BIS price). Spotify?

Well, if I were to suggest a place to start with Oramo's Nielsen, it would be the recording I reviewed above (Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3). I'm not sure if Oramo's cycle is on Spotify or not since I seldom use the service myself.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on May 08, 2016, 08:03:10 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2016, 03:25:42 PM
Flute Concerto, FS 119

This is one of my favorite pieces of music...ever. I love it so much. There are a plethora of emotional temperatures displayed throughout the work. Does anyone have a favorite performance? Mine is Patrick Gallois/Chung on BIS. It doesn't get much better than this IMHO.

I know his detractors don't always think highly of it, but I find that

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/87/49/0886444774987_600.jpg)

has an authority and technical brilliance often missing from other performances (such as my other two - Toke Lund Christiansen on Chandos and old Jespersen himself).  Must listen to Gallois.

(And it's a candidate for Worst CD Cover.)

I've always heard the Flute Concerto as, if not quite a tragic work, at least a fairly damning judgement on Jespersen himself (or perhaps only resignedly humorous) - i.e. stressing the inability of the ultra-refined aesthete to perceive the obvious - in that the various themes of the second movement (the opening melody and its 6/8 variation) are all variants of the slow episode at the heart of the first movement (your "simple cantabile melody in E"), which it takes an ignorant bumpkin with a trombone to point out.

(http://carlnielsen.dk/media/Billedsektion/1879.jpg)

It's interesting that the first performance, hastily assembled, was missing the final trombone intrusion and had a much simpler and less conclusive coda - there are bits about it on the Nielsen society website.  Don't suppose that's ever been recorded, although it would be good to have it as an alternative CD track, like you sometimes get the shorter ending to the Bartók Concerto for Orchestra.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 09:49:08 AM
Yeah, DaveF, I read about that simplified version of the Flute Concerto. It would be nice to hear even if it isn't the fully realized version we all know nowadays. I haven't heard Galway's performance. Who's the conductor/orchestra? This also makes a difference. If it's someone who has no affinity for Nielsen, then I'll pass as I like to hear a conductor who is up to the task as much as the soloist, which is why I singled out the Gallois/Chung performance on BIS.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on May 08, 2016, 12:00:09 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 09:49:08 AM
I haven't heard Galway's performance. Who's the conductor/orchestra?

Danish Radio Symphony, allegedly conducted "from the flute" by Galway himself.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 08, 2016, 12:20:59 PM
Quote from: DaveF on May 08, 2016, 12:00:09 PM
Danish Radio Symphony, allegedly conducted "from the flute" by Galway himself.

Doesn't surprise me, as I suppose this orchestra would manage to play this work even without a conductor.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: DaveF on May 08, 2016, 12:00:09 PM
Danish Radio Symphony, allegedly conducted "from the flute" by Galway himself.

Hah! Cool. Like premont said, it's not like the Danish RSO don't know the work well. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
I don't think Leaper is a bad conductor per se. It's just I found nothing remotely exciting or different about the performances I've heard, especially compared to his illustrious competition (i. e. Bernstein, Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, Chung, Schmidt, etc.).

My idea of a conductor is to be a neutral and precise interpreter of the composer's musical ideas. Nielsen's music itself is exciting and different. I don't need conductors to add anything to it. I have not heard any of the performances you list.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AMHow about reading what is actually written and not what you perceive to be written? :)

That's actually quite funny proposition, as if we could always "correct" our "false" interpretation with what the writer originally had in mind. What is actually written is not always unambiguous or free of hidden meanings. What we perceive is what we perceive.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AMI seldom pay the full price, so I'm not too worried about it. I'll buy what I feel I want and need, but I'll always be sure I get a good deal on it in the process.

In my experience BIS is one of the hardest labels to get good deals. There's several places to buy online, but something (currency rates/customs duty/shipping rates etc.) often renders the deal less attractive. Many Amazon.co.uk sellers do not ship outside UK and those who do often have significantly higher prices. Just today experienced this while buying the CPE Bach set. £42.06 is the "best" deal, but no delivery outside UK. The cheapest international offer is £51.43. That's no less than 22 % more! Amazon.de had a better deal (52.78 € delivered) and I ordered it from there. People living in "big" countries like US or UK don't necessorily understand that the good deals aren't always available for people living in other countries. Our "nordic" online music shop is cdon.com and you don't want to know how much it sucks. How about 17.95 € + shipping for your BIS discs? For those they happen to have available that is. Scared already?  >:D

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AMWell, if I were to suggest a place to start with Oramo's Nielsen, it would be the recording I reviewed above (Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3). I'm not sure if Oramo's cycle is on Spotify or not since I seldom use the service myself.

Two of the three discs are there. The one with #2 and #6 oddly isn't.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 08, 2016, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
I don't think Leaper is a bad conductor per se. It's just I found nothing remotely exciting or different about the performances I've heard, especially compared to his illustrious competition (i. e. Bernstein, Blomstedt, Rozhdestvensky, Chung, Schmidt, etc.).
I never thought Leaper was anything special either, but he is certainly capable of turning in an extraordinary performance as in this performance here of Bax's evocative symphony poem Tintagel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lPDkk-8Mk

Here he takes what most of us would perceive as a second-rate orchestra playing music that they do not know well and turn in a great performance !

Back to recordings of the quirkey Flute Concerto, my favorite is Julius Baker/Bernstein on SONY. There is restraint and artistry all done with professionalism and absolutely no showboating by Baker.

Another good one is this one which combines the Clarinet and Violin Concertos on budget price and is a steal at aftermarket price:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sl8O9fIcL._SX425_.jpg)

BTW what do you guys think of this set?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71t0Iki%2B13L._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PM
My idea of a conductor is to be a neutral and precise interpreter of the composer's musical ideas. Nielsen's music itself is exciting and different. I don't need conductors to add anything to it. I have not heard any of the performances you list.

If you haven't heard any of the afore mentioned conductors in Nielsen, I'd say you've got a lot of catching up to do. :)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PMThat's actually quite funny proposition, as if we could always "correct" our "false" interpretation with what the writer originally had in mind. What is actually written is not always unambiguous or free of hidden meanings. What we perceive is what we perceive.

Then what you perceived isn't what I actually meant.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PMIn my experience BIS is one of the hardest labels to get good deals. There's several places to buy online, but something (currency rates/customs duty/shipping rates etc.) often renders the deal less attractive. Many Amazon.co.uk sellers do not ship outside UK and those who do often have significantly higher prices. Just today experienced this while buying the CPE Bach set. £42.06 is the "best" deal, but no delivery outside UK. The cheapest international offer is £51.43. That's no less than 22 % more! Amazon.de had a better deal (52.78 € delivered) and I ordered it from there. People living in "big" countries like US or UK don't necessarily understand that the good deals aren't always available for people living in other countries. Our "nordic" online music shop is cdon.com and you don't want to know how much it sucks. How about 17.95 € + shipping for your BIS discs? For those they happen to have available that is. Scared already?  >:D

I understand that it's difficult for you to obtain BIS recordings for a good price, but as far as experiencing it directly, you're right, I don't know or have a clue, but this isn't my fault of course.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2016, 02:03:21 PMTwo of the three discs are there. The one with #2 and #6 oddly isn't.

Doesn't surprise me. Spotify isn't what its cracked up to be. I'm glad I was never a paid subscriber (like I need them anyway).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:32:22 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 08, 2016, 02:57:33 PMBack to recordings of the quirky Flute Concerto, my favorite is Julius Baker/Bernstein on SONY. There is restraint and artistry all done with professionalism and absolutely no showboating by Baker.

Another good one is this one which combines the Clarinet and Violin Concertos on budget price and is a steal at aftermarket price:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sl8O9fIcL._SX425_.jpg)

A friend of mine has this recording and says it is superb, but I haven't heard it. Have you heard Gallois/Chung in the Flute Concerto? Quite a remarkable performance all-around.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 08, 2016, 02:57:33 PMBTW what do you guys think of this set?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71t0Iki%2B13L._SX425_.jpg)

Not much. Paavo demonstrating, like his father, that he's bitten off more than he can chew and doesn't allow himself ample time to really absorb the composer's idiom. I've only heard the 3rd and 5th from that set and they were nothing special.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 04:25:13 PM
Helios Overture, Op. 17

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Fh2aCkgfh6Q/S_TUm9YKRFI/AAAAAAAAAm4/LqmBnh36cWg/s1600/1+nuvole.jpg)

The Nielsens had some good fortune in 1903. The composer's wife, Marie Carl-Nielsen, was a noted sculptor and had received the Ancker Scholarship. This carried with it a period of residence in Greece to study classical art. Meanwhile, the composer had earned money with his opera Saul and David and also received a permanent annual contract with the publishing firm of Hansen. Both feeling secure, they decided to go to Greece together. The artistic couple were treated as visiting celebrities. The Athens Conservatory provided Nielsen with a room with a view of the Acropolis, complete with piano. He was able to hike in the mountains, tour the galleries, and in general enjoy his popularity with the people and the warmth of the sunny Mediterranean climate. His visit included a trip to Constantinople and a dinner with King George I of Greece (who was Danish-born).

In general he sloughed off and wrote virtually nothing the entire year of 1903; this overture is the only substantial exception. Nielsen provided a simple program for the overture, the name of which is the Greek for "sun": "Silence and darkness/The sun rises with a joyous song of praise/It wanders on its golden way/And sinks quietly into the sea." The music is not physically descriptive; it is more about the feelings the sun arouses: exhilaration, veneration, and joy. It is a rich and glorious orchestral movement.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does everyone think of the Helios Overture? I think it's a glorious work that comes to life through Nielsen's extraordinary ear for beauty and otherworldliness. There's a bit of a heroic quality to the work as well that never fails to excite me. Any favorite performances? I'll go on record and say I haven't heard a bad performance of this work. My favorites being perhaps Rozhdestvensky and Dausgaard, I recall Martinon and Willen have great performances as well.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on May 08, 2016, 09:33:17 PM
Regarding BIS and prices—I've bought a few things from eclassical, because although used cds might at times be cheaper the shipping charges to New Zealand are pretty high regardless of reseller, putting the average price at NZ$25-30. (I could also pop down to the local CD shop and pay NZ$35.) For CD quality, eclassical charges me about NZ$12-16 for a 70 minute album, and I get it immediately. And if you're an audio person you can also get 24-bit studio masters though they're more expensive.

(That said, I requested the Oramo cycle through interlibrary loan and then ripped the CDs to my computer and sent them back, instead of buying them >.>)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 09, 2016, 01:49:21 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PM
If you haven't heard any of the afore mentioned conductors in Nielsen, I'd say you've got a lot of catching up to do. :)
Catching up to do for what? I buy and listen to music for my recreational pleasure, not to "catch up".

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PMThen what you perceived isn't what I actually meant.
Yeah.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PMI understand that it's difficult for you to obtain BIS recordings for a good price, but as far as experiencing it directly, you're right, I don't know or have a clue, but this isn't my fault of course.
Your fault it isn't. Some other things are perhaps harder for you to obtain than for me. The circumstances we live in shape the way we build our lives.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:27:47 PMDoesn't surprise me. Spotify isn't what its cracked up to be. I'm glad I was never a paid subscriber (like I need them anyway).
I have never been a paid Spotify subcriber either.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:32:22 PM
A friend of mine has this recording and says it is superb, but I haven't heard it. Have you heard Gallois/Chung in the Flute Concerto? Quite a remarkable performance all-around.
You have some catching up to do it seems.  ;D Sorry, couldn't resist the tempetation. I have this Naxos disc and I have nothing negative to say about it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 09, 2016, 02:03:52 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 04:25:13 PM
What does everyone think of the Helios Overture? I think it's a glorious work that comes to life through Nielsen's extraordinary ear for beauty and otherworldliness. There's a bit of a heroic quality to the work as well that never fails to excite me. Any favorite performances? I'll go on record and say I haven't heard a bad performance of this work. My favorites being perhaps Rozhdestvensky and Dausgaard, I recall Martinon and Willen have great performances as well.

Helios Overture was one of the first works I heard by Nielsen on radio and I love it. Such a great overture. I have Dausgaard on Dacapo and Willén on Naxos. Dausgaard is perhaps the better one of these.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on May 09, 2016, 02:06:17 AM
A marvellous work indeed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 09, 2016, 03:13:53 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2016, 05:08:10 AM
Review I wrote on Oramo's recording of Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3:

(http://onebitaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/oramo_nielsen_1_3.jpg)

Title: Thrilling Nielsen From Oramo!


On your recommendation here I have acquired this recording (the Espansiva is the Nielsen-symphony I love the most), and I have to say, that this is a warm, passionate and brilliant interpretation, which easily takes the place among my favorite three Espansivas, the other two being Bernstein and Schønwandt. Thanks for insisting upon its qualities.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 06:22:08 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 09, 2016, 01:49:21 AMCatching up to do for what? I buy and listen to music for my recreational pleasure, not to "catch up".

If you're fan of Nielsen's music, then wouldn't you want to hear other performances besides Leaper's? Hearing different conductors' interpretations will open up the music for you even more IMHO. Not only that, but I was just joking around with you anyway (hence the smiley face).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 06:24:39 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 09, 2016, 03:13:53 AM
On your recommendation here I have acquired this recording (the Espansiva is the Nielsen-symphony I love the most), and I have to say, that this is a warm, passionate and brilliant interpretation, which easily takes the place among my favorite three Espansivas, the other two being Bernstein and Schønwandt. Thanks for insisting upon its qualities.

I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it, premont. :) Since you enjoyed this recording, do checkout Oramo's other ones. His Symphony No. 6, "Sinfonia Semplice" is the best I've heard IMHO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 09, 2016, 10:24:21 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 06:22:08 AM
If you're fan of Nielsen's music, then wouldn't you want to hear other performances besides Leaper's? Hearing different conductors' interpretations will open up the music for you even more IMHO. Not only that, but I was just joking around with you anyway (hence the smiley face).
Well, I would want to do a lot of things, but I can't do it all. I would have to be a multimillionaire and live for 10.000 years.  ::)

Elgar is one of the few composers I have several performances of and I must say opening up the music is not the term I'd use. Waste of money and bookshelf space is my reaction quite often. My first Elgar symphony cycle on Naxos still is my "to go to" cycle after all the Barbirolli, Boult, Elder etc. I feel that exploring new music is more fruitful use of my money. The point is I usually seek for a "better" performance when I feel the performance I have isn't that good. I feel that way about Elgar's The Severn Suite for Brass orchestra. I have a crappy sounding CRD Records disc. So there's something to upgrade.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 01:36:23 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 09, 2016, 10:24:21 AM
Well, I would want to do a lot of things, but I can't do it all. I would have to be a multimillionaire and live for 10.000 years.  ::)

Elgar is one of the few composers I have several performances of and I must say opening up the music is not the term I'd use. Waste of money and bookshelf space is my reaction quite often. My first Elgar symphony cycle on Naxos still is my "to go to" cycle after all the Barbirolli, Boult, Elder etc. I feel that exploring new music is more fruitful use of my money. The point is I usually seek for a "better" performance when I feel the performance I have isn't that good. I feel that way about Elgar's The Severn Suite for Brass orchestra. I have a crappy sounding CRD Records disc. So there's something to upgrade.

Okay, that's certainly fine. You have you're own agenda and I have mine. A waste of money in your eyes is value added in mine. We'll never agree in terms of CD collecting, so I'll never bring it up to you again. Sound like a deal?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 09, 2016, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 01:36:23 PM
Okay, that's certainly fine. You have you're own agenda and I have mine. A waste of money in your eyes is value added in mine. We'll never agree in terms of CD collecting, so I'll never bring it up to you again. Sound like a deal?

Thanks for the deal offer, but you are free to bring up things here. I'm all for the freedom of speech.

There might be aspects of CD collecting we do agree about. Sometimes I do feel another performance adds value, but not always.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 03:08:01 PM
Saga-Drøm (Saga Dream), FS 46 (Op. 39)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1KTqqsOWP4s/TyKwKfmssNI/AAAAAAAAS5Y/QXgEvCsxHhg/s1600/FredericRemington-Moonlight_Wolf_c1909.jpg) (http://38.media.tumblr.com/2e189e657ba957805ac3ce65dfad1a51/tumblr_n63g0iFytF1qflgwpo4_1280.jpg)

This ten-minute symphonic poem is one of the most striking and original of all Carl Nielsen's compositions. It is inspired by a Nordic legend called Njal's Saga. Gunnar of Hildarend, travelling with is brothers, makes an arduous crossing of the Tjors River. They stop to rest. He fell asleep and it was obvious he was having a dream. One of his brother's suggested waking him, but the other said "No! Let him sleep and dream his dream." The mood of the Saga-Dream comes from that line. It opens with a quiet and thoughtful introduction for strings. The music tried to form a chorale, but it floats away into formlessness like a dream. A fugal section again hints a the strands of the dream, and leads into a strange free-form cadenza for several instruments in which the voices of nature seem to be conversing. This is a strikingly "modern" passage, yet it is an exceptionally magical and beautiful moment. After that the chorale returns and coalesces into a more complete form, and a rested and tranquil coda finishes the work.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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More information:

While working on the music for Ludvig Holstein's drama Tove in the winter of 1907–08, Nielsen started to think about writing an orchestral piece based on Njal's Saga. The first traces of the introductory theme for clarinet and viola are to be found in Tove where it is played by a French horn. On 1 April 1908, just after completing Tove, Nielsen signed off the fair copy of Saga Drøm, only a few days before its scheduled performance.

Nielsen no doubt learnt of Njal's Saga and the piece's motto "Now Gunnar dreams; let him enjoy his dream in peace" from the translation by N.M. Petersen. The saga tells how Gunnar, on his way out of the country with Kolskeg and Hjort after being sentenced to exile, is so tired that he calls for a stop and falls into a troubled sleep. Hjort asks whether they should rouse him but Kolskeg replies, "No, let him enjoy his dream." In his dream, Gunnar imagines they are being attacked by wolves. He and Kolskeg manage to defend themselves but Hjort is killed. The others see Gunnar is having a nightmare but Kolskeg still insists that he should not be disturbed.

The unusual insertion of a free cadenza half way through the work may well explain why several of the reviewers were hesitant in condoning the piece. Kristeligt Dagblad referred specifically to "an intermezzo of a kind that can hardly be described in musical terms: it sounded more like an orchestra tuning up for a concert."

In an interview in Politiken published a few years later, Nielsen explained his work in some detail: "I am so fond of the work myself. It is kept almost piano all the time and musically it is very radical. It depicts the dream of Gunnar of Hlidarende, this marvellous figure from Njal's Saga who plundered and slaughtered, yet was still made of finer stuff and was ahead of his time. He dreams of a brighter, better future for mankind, and I have tried, in muted tones, to give voice to the strange ideas engendered in the dream. There are among other things four cadenzas for oboe, clarinet, bassoon and flute which run quite freely alongside one another, with no harmonic connection, and without my marking time. They are just like four streams of thought, each going its own way — differently and randomly for each performance — until they meet in a point of rest, as if flowing into a lock where they are united.

[Article taken from Wikipedia]

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Outside of the symphonies and concerti, this is one of Nielsen's finest works IMHO. The fantasy and dream-like soundscapes really take my mind somewhere else. Favorite performances are Rozhdestvensky and Willen. What do you guys think of the work?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 10, 2016, 06:37:35 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2016, 03:32:22 PM
A friend of mine has this recording and says it is superb, but I haven't heard it. Have you heard Gallois/Chung in the Flute Concerto? Quite a remarkable performance all-around.

Not much. Paavo demonstrating, like his father, that he's bitten off more than he can chew and doesn't allow himself ample time to really absorb the composer's idiom. I've only heard the 3rd and 5th from that set and they were nothing special.

Have not heard the Gallois because the cd is rather pricey. Usually for popular works like the Nielsen Flute Concerto I try to see what I can get cheaply first.

I think you are too hard on Paavo, I think he is much more interesting than his pop. Number 4 from the set is actually very good. I like the set because you get the Frankfurt RSO with a big beefy Teutonic sound, which makes a nice contrast to traditional Nielsen recordings with Scandanavian forces where the sound is usually lighter.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 03:08:01 PM
Saga-Drøm (Saga Dream), FS 46 (Op. 39)

A marvelous work in all respects ! I did NOT know this work. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 10, 2016, 06:51:09 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 10, 2016, 06:37:35 AM
Have not heard the Gallois because the cd is rather pricey. Usually for popular works like the Nielsen Flute Concerto I try to see what I can get cheaply first.

I think you are too hard on Paavo, I think he is much more interesting than his pop. Number 4 from the set is actually very good. I like the set because you get the Frankfurt RSO with a big beefy Teutonic sound, which makes a nice contrast to traditional Nielsen recordings with Scandanavian forces where the sound is usually lighter.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 03:08:01 PM
Saga-Drøm (Saga Dream), FS 46 (Op. 39)

A marvelous work in all respects ! I did NOT know this work. Thanks for sharing.

Saga-Drøm is, indeed, a great work and a favorite of mine. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yeah, I'm pretty critical of Paavo and he has some done good work (Sibelius and Pärt), but I've heard many lackluster performances from him and those Nielsen performances I heard didn't really 'jingle any of my bells' so to speak.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 10, 2016, 07:38:57 AM
Regarding the Flute Concerto this one is pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNfUDa4uTg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNfUDa4uTg)

Talk about Wunderkind, that kid is 12 !
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 11, 2016, 01:08:53 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2016, 06:24:39 AM
I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it, premont. :) Since you enjoyed this recording, do checkout Oramo's other ones. His Symphony No. 6, "Sinfonia Semplice" is the best I've heard IMHO.

Thanks, noted in my book.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 14, 2016, 04:56:36 AM
Since MI has been raving Oramo's Nielsen #3, I listened to it on Spotify yesterday and compared it to Leaper. Not sure, what I should have heard. Fine performance sure (perhaps a bit too aggressive, "brassy" to be Nielsen which is a bit feminine/"woodwindy" music imo). I'm still happy with the Leaper cycle.  0:)

It's been years since I listened to Nielsen's symphonies. I was surprised how little the music did for me. Maybe I am not in Nielsen mood? Have I outgrown Nielsen? Can't be!  ???
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 05:16:37 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 14, 2016, 04:56:36 AM
Since MI has been raving Oramo's Nielsen #3, I listened to it on Spotify yesterday and compared it to Leaper. Not sure, what I should have heard. Fine performance sure (perhaps a bit too aggressive, "brassy" to be Nielsen which is a bit feminine/"woodwindy" music imo). I'm still happy with the Leaper cycle.  0:)

It's been years since I listened to Nielsen's symphonies. I was surprised how little the music did for me. Maybe I am not in Nielsen mood? Have I outgrown Nielsen? Can't be!  ???

I prefer some aggression in Nielsen and the briskness of the overall tempi used by Oramo served the music rather well. I also like my Nielsen 'brassy' since those particular parts beg to be played rather forcibly, especially at climaxes throughout the symphony.

I also seriously doubt you've 'outgrown' Nielsen. I think you simply weren't attuned to the music at that point. I'm a believer that music that we love is music that never grows old or tiresome --- it's simply a part of us and, in many cases, we don't listen to our favorites too often because we know these are special composers. But it is inevitable that someone, who's curious about this music, will want to continue to seek out new composers and develop new favorites.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 06:43:49 AM
Over the course of the weekend (or my weekend rather ---- Sunday and Monday), I'll be revisiting Gilbert's Nielsen cycle on Dacapo with the New York Philharmonic. I'm ashamed to have to admit that I haven't even heard the concertos recording. Reading many positive reviews on MusicWeb and elsewhere recently is when I decided to revisit the Gilbert cycle and give it another shot. Can foreign bodies to Nielsen's idiom produce markedly superlative performances? That's what I'll find out for myself.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 14, 2016, 07:01:34 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 05:16:37 AM
I prefer some aggression in Nielsen and the briskness of the overall tempi used by Oramo served the music rather well. I also like my Nielsen 'brassy' since those particular parts beg to be played rather forcibly, especially at climaxes throughout the symphony.
Oh. I found the brass aggression almost distracting. I felt that "Andante Pastorale" was the most successful movement for Oramo surpassing that of Leaper.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 05:16:37 AMI also seriously doubt you've 'outgrown' Nielsen. I think you simply weren't attuned to the music at that point. I'm a believer that music that we love is music that never grows old or tiresome --- it's simply a part of us and, in many cases, we don't listen to our favorites too often because we know these are special composers. But it is inevitable that someone, who's curious about this music, will want to continue to seek out new composers and develop new favorites.
You are probably right here and I better try Nielsen again later. At the moment my mind is in the music of C.P.E. Bach and I also enjoy LFO's and Autechre's techno sounds.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 14, 2016, 09:24:02 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 06:43:49 AM
Can foreign bodies to Nielsen's idiom produce markedly superlative performances? That's what I'll find out for myself.
You are not entertaining the notion that only Scandanavian ensembles can produce great Nielsen right? There are some great Nielsen recordings by "foreign bodies" like Bernstein from the '60s and the justly famous Martinon Chicago SO 4th Symphony. Each just as punchy and trenchant as anything by Scandanavian forces and in the case of Martinon brass playing that none has surpassed.

Even HvK produced some very interesting if somewhat controversial Nielsen recordings.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 14, 2016, 12:07:03 PM
Saga-Drom is very fine. My daughter has asked me to take her to a classical concert so I hope to go to the concert featuring Sibelius's 'Prelude to the Tempest' and Nielsen's 5th Symphony at the Proms in London on 1st August - so, I really look forward to that.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 14, 2016, 09:24:02 AM
You are not entertaining the notion that only Scandanavian ensembles can produce great Nielsen right? There are some great Nielsen recordings by "foreign bodies" like Bernstein from the '60s and the justly famous Martinon Chicago SO 4th Symphony. Each just as punchy and trenchant as anything by Scandanavian forces and in the case of Martinon brass playing that none has surpassed.

Even HvK produced some very interesting if somewhat controversial Nielsen recordings.

That's very true, Wagnerite. Bernstein yielded some remarkable results in Nielsen as did Martinon in Chicago. Mehta has a smokin' 4th via LA Philharmonic that's worth looking into. I need to reacquaint myself HvK's Inextinguishable.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 06:27:32 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 14, 2016, 12:07:03 PM
Saga-Drom is very fine. My daughter has asked me to take her to a classical concert so I hope to go to the concert featuring Sibelius's 'Prelude to the Tempest' and Nielsen's 5th Symphony at the Proms in London on 1st August - so, I really look forward to that.

Very nice, Jeffrey. It's good to get the whole family involved in our obsession, isn't it? ;D

P.S. Who's the conductor/orchestra in this program of Sibelius and Nielsen?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 15, 2016, 03:14:28 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 14, 2016, 06:27:32 PM
Very nice, Jeffrey. It's good to get the whole family involved in our obsession, isn't it? ;D

P.S. Who's the conductor/orchestra in this program of Sibelius and Nielsen?
Yes, I'm very pleased that my daughter wants to come John (even my wife is being dragged along  :o).
John Storgards is conducting the BBC PO. This morning I was listening to John Barbirolli's recording of Bax's Third Symphony and thinking what a fine conductor he was. So, in anticipation of the concert I have ordered this interesting looking CD:
[asin]B01CPQKXWQ[/asin]
I'm very interested to see what Barbirolli makes of the Nielsen. There is a letter from Vaughan Williams in which he wrote that he only made sense of a Nielsen symphony (No.5 I think or possibly No.4) after hearing Barbirolli conduct it.

PS there are three separate Johns in this message  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2016, 05:09:23 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 15, 2016, 03:14:28 AM
Yes, I'm very pleased that my daughter wants to come John (even my wife is being dragged along  :o).
John Storgards is conducting the BBC PO. This morning I was listening to John Barbirolli's recording of Bax's Third Symphony and thinking what a fine conductor he was. So, in anticipation of the concert I have ordered this interesting looking CD:
[asin]B01CPQKXWQ[/asin]
I'm very interested to see what Barbirolli makes of the Nielsen. There is a letter from Vaughan Williams in which he wrote that he only made sense of a Nielsen symphony (No.5 I think or possibly No.4) after hearing Barbirolli conduct it.

PS there are three separate Johns in this message  8)

Thanks, Jeffrey. I hope you and your family enjoy that concert (if you decide to attend). This Barbirolli recording is the same exact performance as this earlier issue (I believe), which I own already:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yJ0MMAa1L.jpg)

But not knowing Barbirolli's discography as intimately as you do, I could very well be wrong as he's probably conducted Nielsen several times.

Special edit: If I could actually read, I see that this Barbirolli is of the performance of the 5th NOT the 4th. ::) Whoops.... :-[
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2016, 05:53:20 AM
Symphony No. 5, Op. 50, FS 97

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KLxiqK1VQBE/UC0eNHXSXaI/AAAAAAAAEIM/T6a4Cw_DbUg/s1600/World+War+I.jpg) (http://www.vivaboo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/hope-for-the-planet-rain-sun-shine-through-dark-cloud-bird-water-rays-heaven-god-spiritual.jpg)

Nielsen began working on his Symphony No. 5 shortly after World War I. He was deeply affected by that terrible conflict, and the intensity of the Fifth may reflect the composer's feelings about war. At any rate, the work represents a significant shift in the composer's attitude and philosophy; many of his postwar pieces reveal an increasingly strident, polyphonic, and dramatic style, much in contrast to those of the pre-war era. Notably war-like is the dramatic content of the Fifth; conflicting moods and aesthetics are played out throughout: the consonant versus the dissonant, contrapuntal versus harmonic, constructive versus destructive. The work also represents a complete break from Classical form in favor of a two-movement structure; according to biographer Robert Simpson, the first movement contains "the crux of the conflict itself," while the second part is "a finale that would rise out of the ashes in a great fount of regenerative energy. Even this finale is not to be free of difficulties, but it is to prove irresistible in the end."

The first part of the symphony is divided into two contrasting sections: a Tempo giusto in common time and an Adagio non troppo in 3/4 time. A viola tremolo opens the work, a hypnotic perpetual motion figure that several brief melodies try to overrun. As other destructive forces encroach -- a flurry of notes here, an obsessive snare drum rhythm there -- the music reaches a chaotic peak and an Adagio section abruptly brings in constructive forces. Soon, however, the destructive element intrudes, and a veritable battle breaks out with the snare drum rhythm symbolizing the darker side of the conflict. The lyrical Adagio wins out, and the movement fades away with a peaceful clarinet melody, though still accompanied by the distant snare drum figure. An uneasy peace has been won as the second movement gets underway. The movement is divided into four main sections: the brisk opening Allegro subject surges along over an ostinato fourth motif in the bass, which leads into a scherzo-like Presto in the form of a fugue. Soon, destructive forces symbolized by the clarinet and tympani diminish the stability of this passage, and the more the music tries to continue in the face of these obstacles, the more frantic it becomes before an Andante passage finally introduces a second fugue. The subject is developed in a sonorous, polyphonic string texture before leading into a triumphant Allegro section that concludes the work on a note of exaltation and synthesis. "With the Fifth," Nielsen scholar Povl Hamburger asserted, "Nielsen reached the absolute summit of his creative power, not only in his symphonic, but in his instrumental music altogether. Nothing that was added afterwards equals it in greatness of mind, vision, and imagination."

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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This is possibly Nielsen's most disturbing symphonic utterance (although there are parts of Sinfonia Semplice that are pretty terrifying). I believe the first performance I heard of the 5th was Blomstedt's with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra on Decca and I remember being captivated from the first note to the last. There's really nothing like this symphony. The whole snare drummer episode where he practically takes over the entire orchestral soundscape is just pure madness. There are some 'rays of hope' in the symphony, however, like the Adagio that enters after the snare drum section. This gives the music a little relief, but there's still an air of uncertainty and unease throughout the rest of the symphony. My favorite performance is Bernstein's, but I really enjoyed Kubelik's with the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra on EMI I revisited recently. What about you guys?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 15, 2016, 08:26:07 AM
Interesting post John and interesting that you appropriately accompanied it with John Singer Sargent's extraordinary painting 'Gassed' which is in the Imperial War Museum in London. Coincidentally I was on a group walk yesterday when I was talking about this painting with a sculptor. It is very large and standing in front of it is a very moving experience. The ghostly procession of blinded soldiers is made even more poignant by the football match going on in the background. As to performance of Nielsen's 5th, like you I rate the Kubelik very highly but also the Horenstein Unicorn version. It is not generally highly praised but has the most anarchic side drummer I have heard. I'll let you know what I think of the Barbirolli.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 15, 2016, 08:26:07 AM
Interesting post John and interesting that you appropriately accompanied it with John Singer Sargent's extraordinary painting 'Gassed' which is in the Imperial War Museum in London. Coincidentally I was on a group walk yesterday when I was talking about this painting with a sculptor. It is very large and standing in front of it is a very moving experience. The ghostly procession of blinded soldiers is made even more poignant by the football match going on in the background. As to performance of Nielsen's 5th, like you I rate the Kubelik very highly but also the Horenstein Unicorn version. It is not generally highly praised but has the most anarchic side drummer I have heard. I'll let you know what I think of the Barbirolli.

Very nice that you could see this painting in person. It's one of the greatest war paintings I've ever seen actually and so telling in its presentation. I have the Horenstein 5th you speak of and need to give it a listen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 06:06:40 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2016, 01:46:13 PM
Very nice that you could see this painting in person. It's one of the greatest war paintings I've ever seen actually and so telling in its presentation. I have the Horenstein 5th you speak of and need to give it a listen.
If you come to London you must see the painting John!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 06:49:12 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 06:06:40 AM
If you come to London you must see the painting John!  :)

I most certainly will! If I were to go to London, I'd be spending at least two weeks there. After London, I'd go to Copenhagen and then off to Finland.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 16, 2016, 07:57:36 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 06:49:12 AM
... and then off to Finland.

You are coming to Finland? Cool!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 08:12:40 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 16, 2016, 07:57:36 AM
You are coming to Finland? Cool!  :)

One day (I hope). :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 16, 2016, 09:21:52 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 08:12:40 AM
One day (I hope). :)

Sibelius monument?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 09:56:42 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 16, 2016, 09:21:52 AM
Sibelius monument?

Sure and Ainola.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 11:22:18 AM
I was at Ainola in 2013 - my Finnish friends took me there; a wonderful experience. My brother has been to the Nielsen Museum in Denmark and to see Bax's grave in Ireland. I would like, one day, to visit Miaskovsky's grave in Moscow.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 11:39:38 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 11:22:18 AM
I was at Ainola in 2013 - my Finnish friends took me there; a wonderful experience. My brother has been to the Nielsen Museum in Denmark and to see Bax's grave in Ireland. I would like, one day, to visit Miaskovsky's grave in Moscow.

Very nice, Jeffrey. I didn't know you had a brother and that he's a Nielsen fan to boot. The apple doesn't fall very far from the tree. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 11:43:54 AM
Speaking of the Nielsen Museum, that would definitely be a place I'd love to visit when in Denmark:

(http://museum.odense.dk/imagegen.ashx?image=/media/4693/CNM%20foyer.jpg&width=800&constrain=true)

Also, I'd love to visit Nielsen's childhood home in Funen:

(http://www.amati.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Nielsen-birthplace-museum.jpg)

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 11:46:26 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 11:39:38 AM
Very nice, Jeffrey. I didn't know you had a brother and that he's a Nielsen fan to boot. The apple doesn't fall very far from the tree. 8)
That's true John! My brother said that a sudden storm broke out in Denmark (possibly on the Island of Funen which he visited) and he said that it helped him to understand the source of some of Nielsen's inspiration. My brother was with me in Finland and we spend some time at my old friend's summer house overlooking a lake. My brother and I both, independently, thought of the opening of Sibelius's Second Symphony! All those old LP sleeve images I guess.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 11:48:06 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 11:43:54 AM
Speaking of the Nielsen Museum, that would definitely be a place I'd love to visit when in Denmark:

(http://museum.odense.dk/imagegen.ashx?image=/media/4693/CNM%20foyer.jpg&width=800&constrain=true)

Also, I'd love to visit Nielsen's childhood home in Funen:

(http://www.amati.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Nielsen-birthplace-museum.jpg)
Ah, I'm sure that it was Nielsen's childhood home on Funen that my brother visited and where the storm broke out. Nielsen's wife was a sculptor and I'd be interested to see her work too.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 11:51:28 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 11:46:26 AM
That's true John! My brother said that a sudden storm broke out in Denmark (possibly on the Island of Funen which he visited) and he said that it helped him to understand the source of some of Nielsen's inspiration. My brother was with me in Finland and we spend some time at my old friend's summer house overlooking a lake. My brother and I both, independently, thought of the opening of Sibelius's Second Symphony! All those old LP sleeves I guess.  :)

Yes, those sudden changes of weather could have possibly helped fuel Nielsen's inspirations, but also, I imagine, the folk music he had heard growing up seeped into his subconscious as well.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2016, 11:01:22 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2016, 11:51:28 AM
Yes, those sudden changes of weather could have possibly helped fuel Nielsen's inspirations, but also, I imagine, the folk music he had heard growing up seeped into his subconscious as well.
Oh, definitely John.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2016, 06:19:51 AM
The Barirolli performance (1960) is magnificent with the most manic and anarchic side-drummer I have heard. He doesn't let up for one moment. Terrific performance all round.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 19, 2016, 06:26:18 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 19, 2016, 06:19:51 AM
The Barirolli performance (1960) is magnificent with the most manic and anarchic side-drummer I have heard. He doesn't let up for one moment. Terrific performance all round.

Dadgummit, Jeffrey; you're costing me!  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 19, 2016, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 19, 2016, 06:19:51 AM
The Barirolli performance (1960) is magnificent with the most manic and anarchic side-drummer I have heard. He doesn't let up for one moment. Terrific performance all round.

Excellent! How's the audio quality?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 12:13:13 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 19, 2016, 06:26:18 AM
Dadgummit, Jeffrey; you're costing me!  8)

You'll just have to compose more music Karl or play in a jazz band to earn some more money so that you can afford all my recommendations. I am having to mark (grade) lots of public school examinations at the moment for the same purpose.  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 12:14:59 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2016, 04:27:36 PM
Excellent! How's the audio quality?
1960 recording and my stereo is not especially hi-fi. Also I have to listen to it at a fairly low volume or my wife instructs me to turn it down  ::). I'll listen again later and report back John. Seems fine though.

Added later. The recording is fine (live concert) from my point of view.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 20, 2016, 05:58:27 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 12:14:59 AM
1960 recording and my stereo is not especially hi-fi. Also I have to listen to it at a fairly low volume or my wife instructs me to turn it down  ::). I'll listen again later and report back John. Seems fine though.

Added later. The recording is fine (live concert) from my point of view.

Alright, thanks for the feedback, Jeffrey. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 20, 2016, 06:18:01 AM
We all have to turn it down, else our wives instruct us so  0:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 07:01:32 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 20, 2016, 06:18:01 AM
We all have to turn it down, else our wives instruct us so  0:)
:D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 20, 2016, 07:36:49 AM
I just bought the August 2015 issue of BBC Music Magazine and Nielsen is the 'Composer of the Month'. I really wish he was the cover feature as Sibelius was on the cover in the February 2015 issue.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 09:06:57 AM
I just bought the old BBC Radio Classics CD of Barbirolli conducting Sibelius Symphony 5 and Nielsen Symphony 4 (live concerts) and all for under £1.00!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 20, 2016, 09:15:27 AM
Nicely done!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 09:38:51 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on May 20, 2016, 09:15:27 AM
Nicely done!
:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 20, 2016, 06:26:42 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 09:06:57 AM
I just bought the old BBC Radio Classics CD of Barbirolli conducting Sibelius Symphony 5 and Nielsen Symphony 4 (live concerts) and all for under £1.00!  :)

Very good. What are the performance dates?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 10:42:53 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 20, 2016, 06:26:42 PM
Very good. What are the performance dates?
1968 (Sibelius)
1965 (Nielsen)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 21, 2016, 05:50:56 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 20, 2016, 10:42:53 PM
1968 (Sibelius)
1965 (Nielsen)

Thanks a lot! I wonder if that Nielsen 4th is the same as this one?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yJ0MMAa1L.jpg)

This is the only Barbirolli recording I own of his Nielsen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 21, 2016, 06:52:11 AM
Quote from: DaveF on January 30, 2016, 08:36:14 AM
I don't think this

[asin]B000000A8O[/asin]

Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread:

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 21, 2016, 06:23:02 AM
Just bought:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/959/MI0000959632.jpg?partner=allrovi.com) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/955/MI0000955140.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I've been eyeballing both of these recordings for quite some time. I had to give a good bit for the Gibson recording of Nielsen's Inextinguishable, but the recording of the 5th was rather cheap.

I look forward to hearing both of these recordings. I recall that Jeffrey had good things to say about Gibson's Nielsen as well.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 21, 2016, 09:50:41 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 21, 2016, 05:50:56 AM
Thanks a lot! I wonder if that Nielsen 4th is the same as this one?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yJ0MMAa1L.jpg)

This is the only Barbirolli recording I own of his Nielsen.
I don't think so John. I think that the BBC version is live and the EMI that you have is a studio recording although I may be wrong.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2016, 05:04:57 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 21, 2016, 09:50:41 AM
I don't think so John. I think that the BBC version is live and the EMI that you have is a studio recording although I may be wrong.

I believe you're right, Jeffrey. That Barbirolli 5th is tugging at me right now. I don't really need it but seeing as Nielsen is one of my favorites I'm finding it hard to resist at the moment. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2016, 05:18:45 AM
Here's a fair question for my fellow Nielsenites, how is the Bostock cycle of Nielsen's symphonies? How do they compare with say some of my favorites like Bernstein, Blomstedt, Oramo, Chung, Rozhdestvensky, Gilbert, etc.?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2016, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 22, 2016, 05:18:45 AM
Here's a fair question for my fellow Nielsenites, how is the Bostock cycle of Nielsen's symphonies? How do they compare with say some of my favorites like Bernstein, Blomstedt, Oramo, Chung, Rozhdestvensky, Gilbert, etc.?
Oddly enough the Bostock version of symphonies 2 and 5 was in the post box when I returned from being away for the weekend so I will be listening to it immediately after Saint Saens Piano Concerto No.2 ends and report back.  :)
I think that you'll have to have the Barbirolli Nielsen 5 John  >:D ( I'm aware you like modern recordings so I guess that could be a drawer back for you although it did not spoil my enjoyment at all and added to the sense of occasion. Yes, I like Alexander Gibson's Sibelius and Nielsen recordings and find him to be like Bryden Thomson an underrated conductor. I like his version of Vaughan Williams's Symphony 5 for example, which is not generally praised.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2016, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2016, 11:58:48 AM
Oddly enough the Bostock version of symphonies 2 and 5 was in the post box when I returned from being away for the weekend so I will be listening to it immediately after Saint Saens Piano Concerto No.2 ends and report back.  :)
I think that you'll have to have the Barbirolli Nielsen 5 John  >:D ( I'm aware you like modern recordings so I guess that could be a drawer back for you although it did not spoil my enjoyment at all and added to the sense of occasion. Yes, I like Alexander Gibson's Sibelius and Nielsen recordings and find him to be like Bryden Thomson an underrated conductor. I like his version of Vaughan Williams's Symphony 5 for example, which is not generally praised.

Thanks, Jeffrey. I look forward to your report on the Bostock. In the meantime, I've got to do some catch up with Thomson's Nielsen. Do you like Thomson's cycle? How would you rank in comparison with some your own favorites?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2016, 12:11:42 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 22, 2016, 12:03:53 PM
Thanks, Jeffrey. I look forward to your report on the Bostock. In the meantime, I've got to do some catch up with Thomson's Nielsen. Do you like Thomson's cycle? How would you rank in comparison with some your own favorites?
I do like it John but it's a while since I listened to it. I like his Martinu, Bax and Vaughan Williams cycles too. Bostock Nielsen Symphony 5 is now on the CD player. The opening seems v fast to me which robs it IMHO of that sense of urgent expectation which I love in this symphony - will report back after I've heard the whole symphony.

Added later: I enjoyed the performance John, especially that of the second movement. I would have liked the anarchic side-drummer to be more closely miked (as on the old Horenstein Unicorn version). Overall a strong performance but I suspect that I'll go back to the Barbirolli more often as it has a greater sense of urgency. Did you know that the Bostock cycle is available in a super-cheapo 'Karl Nielsen, Danish Symphonist' boxed set?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2016, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2016, 12:11:42 PM
I do like it John but it's a while since I listened to it. I like his Martinu, Bax and Vaughan Williams cycles too. Bostock Nielsen Symphony 5 is now on the CD player. The opening seems v fast to me which robs it IMHO of that sense of urgent expectation which I love in this symphony - will report back after I've heard the whole symphony.

Added later: I enjoyed the performance John, especially that of the second movement. I would have liked the anarchic side-drummer to be more closely miked (as on the old Horenstein Unicorn version). Overall a strong performance but I suspect that I'll go back to the Barbirolli more often as it has a greater sense of urgency. Did you know that the Bostock cycle is available in a super-cheapo 'Karl Nielsen, Danish Symphonist' boxed set?

Thank you for your feedback regarding that Bostock recording. Yes, I've known of that box set you speak of (Carl Nielsen: Danish Symphonist), but I've read some discouraging things about the audio quality as well in Bostock's cycle (too much forward placement of the orchestra and not enough weight and space given for the music to breathe). This said, I find it hard to believe that any new performance I hear of his 5th will top Bernstein's (my all-time favorite). I mean I know there's a lot to be said of someone who keeps an open-mind, but Bernstein's bracing account is implanted into my memory and I find it hard to forget, but I'll definitely be getting the Barbirolli at some point.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2016, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 22, 2016, 01:07:26 PM
Thank you for your feedback regarding that Bostock recording. Yes, I've known of that box set you speak of (Carl Nielsen: Danish Symphonist), but I've read some discouraging things about the audio quality as well in Bostock's cycle (too much forward placement of the orchestra and not enough weight and space given for the music to breathe). This said, I find it hard to believe that any new performance I hear of his 5th will top Bernstein's (my all-time favorite). I mean I know there's a lot to be said of someone who keeps an open-mind, but Bernstein's bracing account is implanted into my memory and I find it hard to forget, but I'll definitely be getting the Barbirolli at some point.
I have the Bernstein too - it is excellent. It is in a Sony set featuring Ormandy's recording of Symphony 6 which is IMHO the greatest one I know of that symphony. My brother likes No.6 best of all and 5 least of all. 5,6,4 are my favourites.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 23, 2016, 08:26:14 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2016, 09:29:16 PM
I have the Bernstein too - it is excellent. It is in a Sony set featuring Ormandy's recording of Symphony 6 which is IMHO the greatest one I know of that symphony. My brother likes No.6 best of all and 5 least of all. 5,6,4 are my favourites.

Upon your recommendation, I bought Ormandy's 6th. I'm really looking forward to hearing it. Your brother likes the 5th the least? Wow...I'd imagine we'd have some spirited arguments about this symphony (if I were to speak with him). ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 23, 2016, 09:45:35 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 23, 2016, 08:26:14 AM
Upon your recommendation, I bought Ormandy's 6th. I'm really looking forward to hearing it. Your brother likes the 5th the least? Wow...I'd imagine we'd have some spirited arguments about this symphony (if I were to speak with him). ;)
Am sure you'll love the Ormandy. Yes, my brother thinks that No.6 is the greatest of all. That first movement is wonderful - it tries to be cheerful but this is undermined by tragedy - a truly poignant and tragic work. Let us know what you think of the Ormandy. I have it with the Bernstein version of No.5 in the Sony Essential Classics set.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 23, 2016, 09:59:30 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 23, 2016, 09:45:35 AM
Am sure you'll love the Ormandy. Yes, my brother thinks that No.6 is the greatest of all. That first movement is wonderful - it tries to be cheerful but this is undermined by tragedy - a truly poignant and tragic work. Let us know what you think of the Ormandy. I have it with the Bernstein version of No.5 in the Sony Essential Classics set.

Thanks, Jeffrey. I'm sure I will. The 6th was a work that came quite easily to me whereas for many listeners I've spoken with it remains a bit of an enigma. I think the undercurrents of this music, which, to me, sound menacing and almost apocalyptic, are masked by this outwardly strange, but good-natured exterior. It's almost like he's hiding and doesn't want to fully acknowledge what could possibly be his true intent. With the 5th, I think it's perfectly clear what we hear: this is a war symphony, but the 6th has this odd ongoing narrative that doesn't always let the listener in, but, like I mentioned, I had no problems with it and it should be just as well known as the middle symphonies IMHO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 23, 2016, 10:28:00 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 23, 2016, 09:59:30 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. I'm sure I will. The 6th was a work that came quite easily to me whereas for many listeners I've spoken with it remains a bit of an enigma. I think the undercurrents of this music, which, to me, sound menacing and almost apocalyptic, are masked by this outwardly strange, but good-natured exterior. It's almost like he's hiding and doesn't want to fully acknowledge what could possibly be his true intent. With the 5th, I think it's perfectly clear what we hear: this is a war symphony, but the 6th has this odd ongoing narrative that doesn't always let the listener in, but, like I mentioned, I had no problems with it and it should be just as well known as the middle symphonies IMHO.
Excellent analysis John - I agree with what you say although you expressed it much better.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 23, 2016, 11:03:57 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 23, 2016, 10:28:00 AM
Excellent analysis John - I agree with what you say although you expressed it much better.  :)

Thanks. Obviously words can't do the music any kind of justice, but we can certainly try! ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 09, 2016, 04:08:08 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on June 09, 2016, 04:31:46 AM
Hah! I was about to post this! Yes, Happy Birthday, Mr. Carl August Nielsen!

(http://animatedimagepic.com/image/happy-birthday/happy-birthday-9100.gif)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on June 09, 2016, 04:32:08 AM
How nice! Maybe I'll go get a bottle of aquavit in his honor. :-)

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 09, 2016, 04:42:26 AM
Quote from: Brewski on June 09, 2016, 04:32:08 AM
How nice! Maybe I'll go get a bottle of aquavit in his honor. :-)

--Bruce

Bottoms up!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on July 17, 2016, 06:41:44 AM
I'm fairly amazed to discover that scores of all of Nielsen's works are available for free download:

http://www.kb.dk/en/nb/dcm/cnu/download.html

Instead of fighting madly to keep things in copyright forever, they're throwing it out there. Yes, they are also selling the kinds of versions you might need for performance in some cases, but fundamentally they're keen to get the music as wide a distribution as possible.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on July 17, 2016, 07:14:25 AM
I use this site (for example the 4th symphony):

http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.4,_Op.29_(Nielsen,_Carl) (http://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.4,_Op.29_(Nielsen,_Carl))

But pretty much everything else is available too...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on July 17, 2016, 02:51:29 PM
Yes, but IMSLP is a generic site, and occasionally it runs into trouble. This is rather different.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 03, 2016, 02:26:04 AM
I attended a wonderful performance of Symphony 5 in London on Monday (Storgards, BBC Philharmonic) at the Proms. So great to hear this work live. My daughter asked me to take her to a classical concert and she and my niece thoroughly enjoyed it, including the modernist opening work for glass harmonica by Jorg Widmann (born 1973). Also included was The Tempest Prelude by Sibelius and the Violin Concerto by Schumann.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 03, 2016, 03:51:19 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 03, 2016, 02:26:04 AM
I attended a wonderful performance of Symphony 5 in London on Monday (Storgards, BBC Philharmonic) at the Proms. So great to hear this work live. My daughter asked me to take her to a classical concert and she and my niece thoroughly enjoyed it, including the modernist opening work for glass harmonica by Jorg Widmann (born 1973). Also included was The Tempest Prelude by Sibelius and the Violin Concerto by Schumann.

Cool! (If only it had been the Schuman Violin Concerto 8) )
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2016, 06:24:34 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 03, 2016, 02:26:04 AM
I attended a wonderful performance of Symphony 5 in London on Monday (Storgards, BBC Philharmonic) at the Proms. So great to hear this work live. My daughter asked me to take her to a classical concert and she and my niece thoroughly enjoyed it, including the modernist opening work for glass harmonica by Jorg Widmann (born 1973). Also included was The Tempest Prelude by Sibelius and the Violin Concerto by Schumann.

Very nice, Jeffrey. If only they would have performed Nielsen's "Violin Concerto" instead of Schumann's. :) Who was the violinist by the way?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on August 03, 2016, 07:32:33 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 03, 2016, 03:51:19 AM
Cool! (If only it had been the Schuman Violin Concerto 8) )
You like that piece? It seems rather meandering and long, anyway not surprised it is so infrequently performed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on August 03, 2016, 04:14:41 PM
...And I've always thought that Nielsen's Violin Concerto is inexplicably poor compared to his other works.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: CRCulver on August 03, 2016, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on August 03, 2016, 04:14:41 PM
...And I've always thought that Nielsen's Violin Concerto is inexplicably poor compared to his other works.

Well, the Violin Concerto is fairly early, so for those dazzled by the style that Nielsen had developed by the late concertos, going back to this one can be a disappointment.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on August 03, 2016, 05:24:22 PM
At the moment, my favorite Nielsen disc is this one from Gilbert/NYP. For starters, this is the first performance of the 2nd where I've actually felt it to be a stronger, or at least as strong, a symphony as No.4 and No.5. Gilbert finds the right tempi and balance for the movements, and really emphasizes some of the brilliant and sometimes quirky orchestrations from Nielsen. I especially love the presence of the horns, listen to way they slide into their notes in the finale at 0:30 when they reintroduce the opening theme, and again in the coda at 7:08. The horns then display their ability to impress by not being too overbearing at the climax of the 3rd mvt Andante at 6:52, which Gilbert offers at a very relaxed andante. The 3rd "Sinfonia Espansiva" is also excellent, with again Gilbert finding a great balance between mvts, with a finale coda that builds just the right amount of steam for its closing statement. Only complaint, and it's minor, is the soprano uses a little more vibrato than I prefer. Minor.

By the way, how great compositionally is the Allegro collerico? I feel it could be a stand alone piece, perhaps even a single Tone Poem. It seems to run the gamut of emotions and dynamics in such a short amount of time, almost as if it's telling a story. Great stuff.

[asin]B007VH6HHU[/asin]

I know we have a lot of Nielsen fans here, what disc are you all currently listening to the most of??
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 03, 2016, 06:14:40 PM
Huge Nielsen fan here obviously. I've come to really enjoy Gilbert's Nielsen, too, Greg. Gilbert and Oramo have two of the best cycles in recent years. I prefer both of them to Schonwandt who just sounds underpowered to my ears.

The Nielsen recording I probably have listened to the most lately is Vilde Frang's performance of the Violin Concerto, which is a fine work and deserves more attention then it seems to get.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/359/MI0003359188.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

But my most listened to Nielsen recording of all-time is this classic one from Bernstein:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/958/MI0000958914.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 01:27:55 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 03, 2016, 03:51:19 AM
Cool! (If only it had been the Schuman Violin Concerto 8) )
I totally agree with your Schuman comment Karl.
:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 01:41:22 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 03, 2016, 06:24:34 AM
Very nice, Jeffrey. If only they would have performed Nielsen's "Violin Concerto" instead of Schumann's. :) Who was the violinist by the way?
Thanks John. Thomas Zehetmair.
Here is a review:
https://bachtrack.com/review-prom-23-storgards-zehetmair-bbc-philharmonic-july-2016
One of my friends said that the performance of the Nielsen made the second movement sound like Shostakovich's 4th Symphony and it was an incredibly intense experience. As for recordings I like the new Gilbert recording but the most anarchic side drummers feature on Jascha Horenstein's Unicorn recording with the New Philharmonia Orchestra and on the just released Barbirolli recording. After the concert I'm tempted to get the Storgards recording but that is only part of a complete set of the symphonies on Chandos.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on August 04, 2016, 02:01:07 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 01:27:55 AM
I totally agree with your Schuman comment Karl.
:)
Yes, one of my favorite violin concertos from the last century.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on August 04, 2016, 02:11:26 AM
re: your Proms concert - I will be watching YT in case someone posts anything from it there
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 04, 2016, 02:36:10 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on August 03, 2016, 04:14:41 PM
...And I've always thought that Nielsen's Violin Concerto is inexplicably poor compared to his other works.
I've never considered the Violin Concerto at all disappointing. To me, that would be like finding fault with L'oiseau de feu because it isn't  Le sacre du printemps.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 04, 2016, 02:37:40 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 03, 2016, 07:32:33 AM
You like that piece? It seems rather meandering and long, anyway not surprised it is so infrequently performed.
I do like it, though I also remember mild disappointment on my first hearing. I got over it  8)

Time to listen again, to be sure ....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: North Star on August 04, 2016, 02:44:22 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 04, 2016, 02:36:10 AM
I've never considered the Violin Concerto at all disappointing. To me, that would be like finding fault with L'oiseau de feu because it isn't  Le sacre du printemps.
Hear, hear, Karl.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on August 04, 2016, 03:18:42 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on August 04, 2016, 02:36:10 AM
I've never considered the Violin Concerto at all disappointing. To me, that would be like finding fault with L'oiseau de feu because it isn't  Le sacre du printemps.

Thi is certainly common sense.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 04, 2016, 03:24:14 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 03, 2016, 07:32:33 AM
You like that piece? It seems rather meandering and long, anyway not surprised it is so infrequently performed.

And (with both respect and affection) wouldn't a Wagnerite incline towards "meandering and long"?  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2016, 06:50:19 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 01:41:22 AM
Thanks John. Thomas Zehetmair.
Here is a review:
https://bachtrack.com/review-prom-23-storgards-zehetmair-bbc-philharmonic-july-2016
One of my friends said that the performance of the Nielsen made the second movement sound like Shostakovich's 4th Symphony and it was an incredibly intense experience. As for recordings I like the new Gilbert recording but the most anarchic side drummers feature on Jascha Horenstein's Unicorn recording with the New Philharmonia Orchestra and on the just released Barbirolli recording. After the concert I'm tempted to get the Storgards recording but that is only part of a complete set of the symphonies on Chandos.

Thanks for the info, Jeffrey. I have to voice an opinion of indifference to Storgards' Nielsen set (w/ the BBC Philharmonic). I think the performances lack the drive that's needed in the music, which conductors like Bernstein, Oramo, Gilbert, Chung, among others supply by the truckloads. I'm not trying to steer you away from that set, but think the Oramo would be a better way to go (if you feel you would like another Nielsen symphony cycle).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 09:29:50 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 04, 2016, 06:50:19 AM
Thanks for the info, Jeffrey. I have to voice an opinion of indifference to Storgards' Nielsen set (w/ the BBC Philharmonic). I think the performances lack the drive that's needed in the music, which conductors like Bernstein, Oramo, Gilbert, Chung, among others supply by the truckloads. I'm not trying to steer you away from that set, but think the Oramo would be a better way to go (if you feel you would like another Nielsen symphony cycle).
Thanks John. I'm afraid that temptation got the better of me before I read your post and I have ordered the Storgards set ???. However, I read a very good review of the performance of Symphony No.5 and as this is the one I heard Storgards conduct I shall still look forward to hearing it. I like Oramo's recording of Prokofiev's 5th and 6th symphonies which I recently acquired - so I shall look out for his Nielsen cycle. I thought that Sjorgards recording of the Korngold Symphony was rather underrated. I don't think that I have a complete Nielsen cycle by a single conductor. I have the Bernstein/Ormandy cycle and the historic Jensen/Tuxen one plus many individual recordings of symphonies 4-6.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2016, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 09:29:50 AM
Thanks John. I'm afraid that temptation got the better of me before I read your post and I have ordered the Storgards set ???. However, I read a very good review of the performance of Symphony No.5 and as this is the one I heard Storgards conduct I shall still look forward to hearing it. I like Oramo's recording of Prokofiev's 5th and 6th symphonies which I recently acquired - so I shall look out for his Nielsen cycle. I thought that Sjorgards recording of the Korngold Symphony was rather underrated. I don't think that I have a complete Nielsen cycle by a single conductor. I have the Bernstein/Ormandy cycle and the historic Jensen/Tuxen one plus many individual recordings of symphonies 4-6.

Well, perhaps you'll enjoy Storgards much more than I did. I do hope that BIS boxes up their Oramo cycle someday or even better if Oramo conducts more of Nielsen's music (hopefully with the same orchestra, the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2016, 10:51:42 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 04, 2016, 02:53:36 PM
Well, perhaps you'll enjoy Storgards much more than I did. I do hope that BIS boxes up their Oramo cycle someday or even better if Oramo conducts more of Nielsen's music (hopefully with the same orchestra, the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic).
I'll report back in due course. Yes, I noticed the Oramo are only available separately and are a bit pricey - so, holding back for the moment.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on November 17, 2016, 04:05:02 PM
Not mainly Nielsen, but plenty:

There's Something Wonderful In The State Of Denmark
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2016/11/Wonderful-Denmark_Music_Forbes_Sound-Advice_Jens-F-Laurson_1600__Nielsen_Symphonies_Gilbert_Clarinet-Cto-Frost-1200x446.jpg?width=960)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/#7a50e5cc5a73 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/11/17/theres-something-wonderful-in-the-state-of-denmark/#7a50e5cc5a73)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on November 18, 2016, 12:27:50 PM
Thank you for the link. Some refreshing thoughts in the article, such as likening Nielsen a bit to Martinu, and Langgaard a bit to Rheinberger and Rautavaara. Though capricious, perhaps, another step in widening the horizon as regards the often somewhat provincial reputation of Danish culture. And dealing with the largely unknown, even in his own country, Leif Kayser, is highly unusual.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on December 11, 2016, 10:59:30 PM
Can someone help with some information.

I remember reading somewhere, though I can't remember where, that after Nielsen had completed his 29 Small Preludes for Organ FS 136 the Church Music Board of the Lutheran Church looked them and approved their use except for two of them (and can't remember which two).

However at the time I listened to a recording carefully and the two that the Church didn't approve seemed very similar to the others. The only reason I could think of at the time they might have rejected them was that these two alluded to Danish songs that were too secular or indelicate.

Does anyone know the reason?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on December 12, 2016, 12:07:59 AM
I browsed a few internet sources including Danish ones, and the three books I own about Nielsen (Carl Nielsen Companion, and Steensen´s and Jensen´s biographies), but didn´t find the exact pieces that were criticized. It seems that the criticism came from Povl Hamburger (music critic) and Knud Hjortø (an author), among others.

Hamburger criticized them in Dansk Musik Tidsskrift magazine. The main reason is not given in the summary I have, but he also wrote, that they were too old-fashioned stylistically. He wrote that only nos. 14 & 29 were appropriate for the church music of the day.

Hjortø wrote briefly, that some of the preludes lacked a solemn atmosphere or they were maybe even too humorous, in the magazine "Vor Ungdom" (Our Youth).
Nielsen then gave a detailed answering, in the same magazine.

However, reviews after the first performance (28 of them, in Skovshoved church, by Poul Schierbeck) were positive. There was a complete performance later, in Skt. Johannes Church, by Peter Thomsen.

There´s an English article about the set of organ preludes here, including the mentioning of 2 further ones composed about a year after the first set of 29:
http://img.kb.dk/ma/cn/forord/CNU_II_12_13_pr.pdf

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on December 12, 2016, 12:24:42 AM
The story as I've read it is that the original dedicatee, one Johannes Hansen, though that all the preludes were unsuitable for church use (and Nielsen cheerfully agreed, but said something like "They'll get used to them").  The first performance omitted only one which the performer, Poul Schierbeck, thought unsuitable - no.23.  But I wasn't aware of any actual intervention by the church.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on December 12, 2016, 03:35:42 AM
Most interesting.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on December 12, 2016, 11:27:49 AM
After typing my question I went back to try to find where I might have gained the information, and of course it was exactly where you'd expect, in the CD notes to the Bis recording (by Elisabeth Westernholz).

These notes, by Knud Ketting, state that:
1. Nielsen himself on one occasion said that nos 8, 9, 15, 18, 22, 26 & 28 of the Preludes were 'definitely not suitable for Church use in our time'.
2. At the premiere Poul Schierbeck refused to play no.26
3. Soon after, however, all 29 were played in a Church by Peter Thomsen.

So I misremembered about two of them being not authorised.

However, as I said, they all sound suitable to me, none of them sound frivolous.

Which reminds me of another story: when Havergal Brian was a young man, in the 1890s, he worked as a church organist. He was reproved, however,  for playing extracts from the Ring on the organ in his practice sessions!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on December 25, 2016, 02:21:52 PM
Could this be my ideal Clarinet Concerto that I've been seeking for years?:

[asin]B000E97Z3C[/asin]

Just been rounding off Christmas Day excerpting lots of recordings of it on Spotify, and this Swedish/Finnish collaboration is seriously exciting - sounds like Ib Eriksson come back to life - but with all the right notes :).  The way she rips into the second cadenza is quite thrilling.  The band are good, too, with a side-drummer who wants us to realise that actually it's a double concerto.  (We had Petri Sakari in Cardiff once for a very fine Inestinguibile, so he knows his stuff.)  Anybody else know this disc/have opinions?  I'll probably download from Qobuz (sorry to keep mentioning Euro-Qobuz), which will also make me the proud owner of a short concerto by John Fernström and a half-hour monster by Jouni Kaipanen - ?? anybody ??  Just hope they're as good as Kalevi Aho's that Martin Fröst recorded on his Nielsen disc.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on December 26, 2016, 02:05:39 AM
Quote from: DaveF on December 25, 2016, 02:21:52 PM
(sorry to keep mentioning Euro-Qobuz),


Don't be! Qobuz is the only company that gets classical downloading/streaming right. I include them in every link on my posts, too, despite their non-US presence (for now), simply because everyone should know how it CAN be done. ;-)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 08:38:07 AM
Really enjoying this CD. The placing of Helios, Saga-Drom, Pan and Syrinx and An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands in sequence is wonderful - very fine performances and recordings too. The Aladdin music is the icing on the cake - a great CD:
[asin]B000BDH5DQ[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on January 18, 2017, 06:49:27 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 08:38:07 AM
Really enjoying this CD. The placing of Helios, Saga-Drom, Pan and Syrinx and An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands in sequence is wonderful - very fine performances and recordings too. The Aladdin music is the icing on the cake - a great CD:
[asin]B000BDH5DQ[/asin]

There are many fine recordings of all those works of course, but I would be curious how these particular performances stack up against others like Willen, Dausgaard, and Jarvi? How's the audio quality?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 09:57:20 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 18, 2017, 06:49:27 PM
There are many fine recordings of all those works of course, but I would be curious how these particular performances stack up against others like Willen, Dausgaard, and Jarvi? How's the audio quality?
I'll get back to you on that. It sounds very good to me John although I don't listen on very expensive equipment.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on January 19, 2017, 06:53:34 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 18, 2017, 09:57:20 PM
I'll get back to you on that. It sounds very good to me John although I don't listen on very expensive equipment.

Ah okay, sounds like a plan, Jeffrey. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on January 31, 2017, 07:01:15 PM
Nielsen is one of my favorite absolutes, a composer who overflows brilliance in everything he composed. His style is so resolute and that makes it even more unique. Everything I've heard from him I liked a lot. As an inexhaustible lover of symphonies in general, I have Nielsen's symphonies in a very high esteem. For me the best symphonies are 3-5 without deserving the other 3, but the first mentioned have an overwhelming energy (it's difficult not to be astonished at such a display of power). Among his other works I like Pan and Syrinx, the tremendous Flute concerto, the magnificent Clarinet concerto, the so lovely and fine Hymnus Amoris and the kaleidoscopic Commotio for organ. I was listening to the fourth movement of the third symphony and it is absolutely infectious, I can't get it out of my head!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on January 31, 2017, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 31, 2017, 07:01:15 PM
Nielsen is one of my favorite absolutes, a composer who overflows brilliance in everything he composed. His style is so resolute and that makes it even more unique. Everything I've heard from him I liked a lot. As an inexhaustible lover of symphonies in general, I have Nielsen's symphonies in a very high esteem. For me the best symphonies are 3-5 without deserving the other 3, but the first mentioned have an overwhelming energy (it's difficult not to be astonished at such a display of power). Among his other works I like Pan and Syrinx, the tremendous Flute concerto, the magnificent Clarinet concerto, the so lovely and fine Hymnus Amoris and the kaleidoscopic Commotio for organ. I was listening to the fourth movement of the third symphony and it is absolutely infectious, I can't get it out of my head!

Sibelius, Nielsen, Ravel, Bartok, and RVW. These composers are my musical soulmates (yes, one can have more than one ;) ). I wrote this rather short paragraph on Facebook beside a photo of Nielsen about a year or so ago that read:

"It took me about six years to come to grips with Nielsen's idiom. For some, the attraction to the music is immediate, but, for me, I had to work at it. I was allured by his sound-world but I didn't love it. I'd say I finally cracked this music wide-open. Nielsen draws from many sources: Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Danish folk music, but this is all projected through his own unique lens and the result is something a bit off-the-wall, passionate, emotionally absorbing, half sweet, half sour, but, ultimately, his music was a reflection of who he was like all the great composers. His compositional voice is one of challenging traditional notions of symphonic music. I'm glad I never stopped listening. Great things do come to those who are patient enough to wait for it."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

His symphonies are by far some of the most engrossing music ever written. I also love all three of his concerti, most of his orchestral works like Saga-Dream, Imaginary Voyage to the Faroe Islands, Helios Overture, Pan & Syrinx, the Wind Quintet, and Violin Sonata No. 2. These particular works stand out to me and are reason enough to hold that Nielsen flag high and keep it waving. An extraordinary musical mind.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on January 31, 2017, 07:50:12 PM
Great and accurate words!

It is interesting to know that there are people who like this music as much or more than me and can share those impressions. All of the above enriches each topic of conversation in general, whether or not there are favorable comments on it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on January 31, 2017, 08:35:58 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 31, 2017, 07:50:12 PM
Great and accurate words!

It is interesting to know that there are people who like this music as much or more than me and can share those impressions. All of the above enriches each topic of conversation in general, whether or not there are favorable comments on it.

Absolutely. That's the great thing about GMG in general is that you're not always alone in your likes (and sometimes even your dislikes as well). 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on February 01, 2017, 12:21:41 AM
I'm definitely catching the Nielsen bug. Once I've got to the end of the Da Capo orchestral set, I will undoubtedly exploring further. Because so far there's not a single weak piece in there.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on February 01, 2017, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on February 01, 2017, 12:21:41 AM
I'm definitely catching the Nielsen bug. Once I've got to the end of the Da Capo orchestral set, I will undoubtedly exploring further. Because so far there's not a single weak piece in there.

Hear, hear.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 09:49:48 AM
I wrote a review on Amazon of the Schonwandt cycle that I'm rather proud of:

Title: Lacking Power In Nielsen's Forward Moving, High-Octane Symphonic Cycle

Carl Nielsen (1865 - 1931) is the most important composer to come out of Denmark. He's recognized as Denmark's most celebrated composer and rightfully so: he bridged his own highly individual musical language with classical music's rich musical past to forge a style that is ultimately his own. One of the main characteristics of his style or at least in his symphonic writing is how his music is structured not only in musical form but in terms of harmony. To a person just coming to Nielsen for the first-time, I highly recommend Leonard Bernstein's recording of "Symphony Nos. 3 & 5". This will give you an idea rather quickly of where Nielsen was coming from and how his own musical language works. You just can't go wrong with this Bernstein recording and any Nielsen fan will tell you this.

As for the cycle at hand, Schønwandt has received many favorable reviews over the years and his cycle received a 10/10 on ClassicsToday from David Hurwitz, but I'm afraid I just can't agree with the positive reviews given my own preferences and the way I like to hear this music performed. What makes Schønwandt's performances fall flat for me is there's a smoothed over, almost uniform quality to all of the performances that makes me think that he views all the symphonies the same when they couldn't be any more different from each other. There are six symphonies in Nielsen's symphonic cycle and each one, for me, represents a different side to the composer. I'll give a short break-down of each symphony's musical personality:

"Symphony No. 1" - This is Nielsen's first stab at a symphony and it has a 'young man showing what he can do' kind of sound to it if that makes any sense. He was clearly finding his own voice and you can hear it in the sheer exuberance of the music and the fact that the symphony itself struggles to find a key (even though it's labeled as being in G minor).

"Symphony No. 2, The Four Temperaments" - Nielsen is still testing the waters here, but this is probably his most lushly 'Romantic' symphony. There is sort of a program behind this particular symphony and you can go read about it, but basically each movement represents a side of the human experience. Like most of Nielsen's symphonies, it starts off with a bang from the get-go.

"Symphony No. 3, Sinfonia espansiva" - I'll go ahead and say it "Symphony Nos. 3-6" are where's it at for me in terms of Nielsen's symphony cycle. The 3rd pretty much has done away with the kind of Romantic gesturing you hear in the 1st and 2nd and we start to hear Nielsen's compositional voice come into the fore. This is energetic, driven music that sounds like nothing you've heard before. Nielsen makes use in the second movement of two vocalists (a soprano and a baritone) singing in a wordless vocal style that calls to mind Vaughan Williams' usage of this kind of sound in his "Pastoral Symphony". This said, the "Sinfonia Espansiva" could be viewed as his "Pastoral Symphony" but even this description would be undermining the sheer energy and power this symphony projects to the listener.

"Symphony No. 4, The Inextinguishable" - What a symphony! This is where Nielsen began structuring his music in an organic way, where each movement is played without pause and are interlocked. The finale of "The Inextinguishable" is a raucous timpani battle where the timpanists are given a significant amount of creative liberty to play as loudly as they can so they're almost drowning out the orchestra. It's a real hoot!

"Symphony No. 5" - Perhaps reflecting the horrors of World War I, the 5th is one of Nielsen's most menacing works. It contains a first movement where a side drummer is making one aggressive statement after another while the woodwinds are chattering away with their own embittered snipes before giving away to a beautiful "Adagio" section. This symphony, like all of Nielsen's mature symphonies, displays a remarkable amount of moods and emotions, but, also as I mentioned before, it doesn't sound like any of the other symphonies, which, in itself, is an astonishing achievement for any composer. This kind of thinking clearly shows that he wasn't too concerned with creating a 'unity' in his symphonies per se, but wanted each of the symphonies to display a different idea and sound-world that was uniquely its' own.

"Symphony No. 6, Sinfonia semplice" - The oddball of Nielsen's symphony cycle, but it's actually not so odd if you actually sit down and listen to it. When I finally understood this symphony, I was so happy that I persevered and continued trying to wrap my mind around it. This work contains some gnarly dissonances and is possibly the most forward-looking of all of his symphonies. There are many sporadic episodes here and there and sometimes you may wonder what relevance do any of them have in connection with each other, but you soon realize that the nature of this symphony, or, at least in my opinion, is that life as Nielsen knew it was coming to an end (he was quite in ill health whenever he wrote what would be his final symphony) and these episodes reveal a troubled mind, but also someone who was continuing to question the existence of all things. In this regard, this is actually the most tragic of all his symphonies and it reminds one of how our time is indeed quite limited.

Some of my favorite Nielsen conductors: Bernstein, Blomstedt (San Francisco SO Decca cycle), Chung, Gilbert, and Oramo. I cannot recommend this Schønwandt set on the account that, for me, there are much better performances offered.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on April 24, 2017, 11:19:36 AM
What a great review John! For me Ormandy is without equal in No.6. I love the newly reissued Barbirolli version of No.5 for the manic side-drummer. I also like Horenstein's Unicorn version. I like Alexander Gibson in 4 and 5 too.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 24, 2017, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 09:49:48 AM
I cannot recommend this Schønwandt set on the account that, for me, there are much better performances offered.

Agree. For me Schønwandt's is the most disappointing Nielsen cycle.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on April 24, 2017, 11:19:36 AM
What a great review John! For me Ormandy is without equal in No.6. I love the newly reissued Barbirolli version of No.5 for the manic side-drummer. I also like Horenstein's Unicorn version. I like Alexander Gibson in 4 and 5 too.

Thanks, Jeffrey. One thing is for certain: we surely do have a plethora of recordings of these magnificent works available to us, which is something that probably couldn't have been said when LPs and such were being offered to the public. Nielsen has come a long way.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 12:09:31 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 24, 2017, 12:04:19 PM
Agree. For me Schønwandt's is the most disappointing Nielsen cycle.

Sarge

I've been disappointed with several Nielsen cycles, but, yes, Schønwandt's performances never quite take off for me.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on April 24, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
Counterpoint: I appreciate the Schønwandt set for its neoclassicist qualities, bringing out Nielsen's deep relationships to Brahms and Haydn. The interpretations sometimes lack rhythmic life (as in No. 3) but Nos. 2 and 6 in particular either avoid this problem or render it less noticeable.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: amw on April 24, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
Counterpoint: I appreciate the Schønwandt set for its neoclassicist qualities, bringing out Nielsen's deep relationships to Brahms and Haydn. The interpretations sometimes lack rhythmic life (as in No. 3) but Nos. 2 and 6 in particular either avoid this problem or render it less noticeable.

It's certainly true that Nielsen revered Beethoven, Brahms, and Mozart, but these were merely stepping stones in the affirmation of him as a symphonist of such brilliant ingenuity. Bringing out the more 'classicist' aspect of his music, for me, belies the craggy, scorching hot undercurrent of the music, which thrives on forward momentum and surges of vigor in order for it sound more less right. So, while I'm not disagreeing with you completely, I do feel, however, without this particular aspect I spoke of being on display, his music comes off as rather flaccid. All IMHO of course.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 24, 2017, 07:57:55 PM
It's good writing, but it seems to me that a lot of it isn't actually a review of the cycle.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should be proud of the writing. I'm just of the view that a review of a particular recording should have more about the recording. I think Amazon does have places where you can write about the music and THEN outline preferred and non-preferred versions, and that may have been a better place for it.

I of course am very happy with Schønwandt's cycle, but that's neither here nor there.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 08:05:52 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 24, 2017, 07:57:55 PM
It's good writing, but it seems to me that a lot of it isn't actually a review of the cycle.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should be proud of the writing. I'm just of the view that a review of a particular recording should have more about the recording. I think Amazon does have places where you can write about the music and THEN outline preferred and non-preferred versions, and that may have been a better place for it.

I of course am very happy with Schønwandt's cycle, but that's neither here nor there.

Thanks, you're right. I could have probably mentioned a bit more about why Schønwandt's cycle doesn't do much for me. I think what I did say about Schønwandt's cycle was more or less to the point and I suppose I could have gone into a side-by-side comparison with other favorite performances and how those particular performances check all the right boxes while Schønwandt's didn't. I'm just not one of those reviewers that can write a long novel or go into five paragraphs as to why I thought Schønwandt was this or that. I just don't have that kind of time to warrant a long-breathed review.

This said, I certainly understand where you're coming from and even sympathize with your opinion, but there were several other factors coming into play during the writing of this review and one of the main ones is simply time --- there's never enough of it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
Orfeo, if your time permits, please give this performance from Bernstein of the 5th a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/v/y6o3JnyVRCw

After you've heard Lenny's 5th, go back to Schønwandt's performance of the 5th and tell me which performance you prefer and why. I'd greatly appreciate your participation here. If you don't want to or you simply can't do it today, I completely understand.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 24, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
To be honest, what I had in mind was more shortening the review, not lengthening it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 24, 2017, 08:26:25 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
Orfeo, if your time permits, please give this performance from Bernstein of the 5th a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/v/y6o3JnyVRCw

After you've heard Lenny's 5th, go back to Schønwandt's performance of the 5th and tell me which performance you prefer and why. I'd greatly appreciate your participation here. If you don't want to or you simply can't do it today, I completely understand.

Okay, today is a public holiday here as it happens, so I'll probably have time for a comparison. I'll get back to you!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 08:26:44 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 24, 2017, 08:23:07 PM
To be honest, what I had in mind was more shortening the review, not lengthening it.

Oh man, I'm definitely not going to shorten the review as I don't even know where I would put my own descriptions of the symphonies other than here. Well, also, it's not like anyone is actually going to read my review outside of GMG and if they do, then I'd be surprised if they didn't fall asleep during it. ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 08:27:42 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 24, 2017, 08:26:25 PM
Okay, today is a public holiday here as it happens, so I'll probably have time for a comparison. I'll get back to you!

Well, this would be greatly appreciated not only by me but by other Nielsen fans here I'm sure. Looking forward to your findings. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 08:32:24 PM
Speaking of Nielsen's 5th, I've got this Cambridge book lying around that I haven't read yet....I better get to it!

[asin]0521446325[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 24, 2017, 08:36:03 PM
Just noting, you're aware that Hurwitz loves Bernstein's 5th?

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-15896/

And the original review of the Schønwandt 5th before the cycle was boxed (by Victor Carr Jr, not Hurwitz) also refers to Bernstein as the reference version. So I reserve the right to come back and say I thought both of them were awesome.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 08:43:30 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 24, 2017, 08:36:03 PM
Just noting, you're aware that Hurwitz loves Bernstein's 5th?

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-15896/

And the original review of the Schønwandt 5th before the cycle was boxed (by Victor Carr Jr, not Hurwitz) also refers to Bernstein as the reference version. So I reserve the right to come back and say I thought both of them were awesome.

Oh, well sure. I don't know one Nielsen fan (or at least that I've spoken with) that doesn't like Lenny's performance of the 5th (and his Espansiva for that matter). You could very well love both the Schønwandt and Bernstein performances equally. If this ends up being the case, then my hat is off to you. You certainly hear something in Schønwandt that I seem to be missing or can't quite grasp.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 24, 2017, 11:33:15 PM
Okay, right, well...

Honestly, I suspect I'd love the 1st movement of the 5th no matter who played it. It was the thing that made me go wow and conclude I definitely needed a recording of the symphonies.

I'd say I probably prefer Bernstein, principally because he makes more of the first "percussion" episode. There's more drama in general, but that's the section where on a comparison I'd say that Schønwandt perhaps doesn't make enough of it. Later on in the movement I'm fine with both, though again Bernstein is undoubtedly the more dramatic and military.

I want to also observe this is the only one of the 1st movements that's slow, and that's important to point out because the reason I chose Schønwandt over a couple of other cycles after sampling wasn't because of slower movements, it was because of faster ones. I remember trialling some Allegros where Schønwandt allowed the music to breathe in places where others pressed on a bit harder.

And that's relevant now. For the 2nd movement, one of the Classics Today reviews refers to Bernstein's high level of excitement. And I can certainly hear that, but I do feel as if the opening section is set constantly on high voltage. Schønwandt might not be quite as propulsive initially, but there's more light and shade and to me that actually ends up making the louder passages more interesting. By giving my ears a slight rest in between I'm ready for the next bit. In the longer term I don't think Schønwandt is lacking energy (the clarinet is nicely manic in the Presto section). Is Bernstein bigger in the biggest moments? Yes.

So overall I'm leaning to Bernstein for one movement and Schønwandt for the other. It's a damn good piece of music either way.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 25, 2017, 02:08:25 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 24, 2017, 11:33:15 PM
Okay, right, well...

Honestly, I suspect I'd love the 1st movement of the 5th no matter who played it. It was the thing that made me go wow and conclude I definitely needed a recording of the symphonies.

I'd say I probably prefer Bernstein, principally because he makes more of the first "percussion" episode. There's more drama in general, but that's the section where on a comparison I'd say that Schønwandt perhaps doesn't make enough of it. Later on in the movement I'm fine with both, though again Bernstein is undoubtedly the more dramatic and military.

I want to also observe this is the only one of the 1st movements that's slow, and that's important to point out because the reason I chose Schønwandt over a couple of other cycles after sampling wasn't because of slower movements, it was because of faster ones. I remember trialling some Allegros where Schønwandt allowed the music to breathe in places where others pressed on a bit harder.

And that's relevant now. For the 2nd movement, one of the Classics Today reviews refers to Bernstein's high level of excitement. And I can certainly hear that, but I do feel as if the opening section is set constantly on high voltage. Schønwandt might not be quite as propulsive initially, but there's more light and shade and to me that actually ends up making the louder passages more interesting. By giving my ears a slight rest in between I'm ready for the next bit. In the longer term I don't think Schønwandt is lacking energy (the clarinet is nicely manic in the Presto section). Is Bernstein bigger in the biggest moments? Yes.

So overall I'm leaning to Bernstein for one movement and Schønwandt for the other. It's a damn good piece of music either way.

Most interesting, thanks. (I enjoyed John's write-up, but agree that it was more about the music itself.) Fully agree that (to filter slightly) Schønwandt, too, does a damned fine job  8)

I find this post much to the point:

Quote from: amw on April 24, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
Counterpoint: I appreciate the Schønwandt set for its neoclassicist qualities, bringing out Nielsen's deep relationships to Brahms and Haydn. The interpretations sometimes lack rhythmic life (as in No. 3) but Nos. 2 and 6 in particular either avoid this problem or render it less noticeable.

(I need to revisit the Espansiva to see if I agree to the charge of Rhythmic Lifelessness  ;) )

I find in Lenny generally a genial balance between getting detail right, and The Big Gesture. Perhaps because it is his generation/background, his bottom line trends to the Romantic, the Emotive, but I rarely find that this misshapes the music. I'm not at all saying that he misshaped Nielsen, I'm only explaining something of why I don't expect the same result from Lenny and from Schønwandt. I do like them both, and perhaps someday I'll draw up a defense of the latter  8)

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 05:41:34 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 24, 2017, 11:33:15 PM
Okay, right, well...

Honestly, I suspect I'd love the 1st movement of the 5th no matter who played it. It was the thing that made me go wow and conclude I definitely needed a recording of the symphonies.

I'd say I probably prefer Bernstein, principally because he makes more of the first "percussion" episode. There's more drama in general, but that's the section where on a comparison I'd say that Schønwandt perhaps doesn't make enough of it. Later on in the movement I'm fine with both, though again Bernstein is undoubtedly the more dramatic and military.

I want to also observe this is the only one of the 1st movements that's slow, and that's important to point out because the reason I chose Schønwandt over a couple of other cycles after sampling wasn't because of slower movements, it was because of faster ones. I remember trialling some Allegros where Schønwandt allowed the music to breathe in places where others pressed on a bit harder.

And that's relevant now. For the 2nd movement, one of the Classics Today reviews refers to Bernstein's high level of excitement. And I can certainly hear that, but I do feel as if the opening section is set constantly on high voltage. Schønwandt might not be quite as propulsive initially, but there's more light and shade and to me that actually ends up making the louder passages more interesting. By giving my ears a slight rest in between I'm ready for the next bit. In the longer term I don't think Schønwandt is lacking energy (the clarinet is nicely manic in the Presto section). Is Bernstein bigger in the biggest moments? Yes.

So overall I'm leaning to Bernstein for one movement and Schønwandt for the other. It's a damn good piece of music either way.

Thanks for your feedback here. Somehow I knew it was going to come down to you preferring both of them, which there's certainly nothing wrong with that. I like different performances for different reasons, too, but Schønwandt's performances have been difficult for me to appreciate.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 25, 2017, 02:08:25 AM
Most interesting, thanks. (I enjoyed John's write-up, but agree that it was more about the music itself.) Fully agree that (to filter slightly) Schønwandt, too, does a damned fine job  8)

I find this post much to the point:

(I need to revisit the Espansiva to see if I agree to the charge of Rhythmic Lifelessness  ;) )

I find in Lenny generally a genial balance between getting detail right, and The Big Gesture. Perhaps because it is his generation/background, his bottom line trends to the Romantic, the Emotive, but I rarely find that this misshapes the music. I'm not at all saying that he misshaped Nielsen, I'm only explaining something of why I don't expect the same result from Lenny and from Schønwandt. I do like them both, and perhaps someday I'll draw up a defense of the latter  8)

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Completely agree with you about Lenny's way with music, especially his Nielsen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 25, 2017, 05:45:17 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 05:41:34 AM
[...] I like different performances for different reasons, too, but Schønwandt's performances have been difficult for me to appreciate.

Well, and the Sarge has also expressed disappointment.  It is a set which seems to divide listeners, like the Haitink/RVW set  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 05:49:14 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 25, 2017, 05:45:17 AM
Well, and the Sarge has also expressed disappointment.  It is a set which seems to divide listeners, like the Haitink/RVW set  8)

QFT. :) I'll also add that I'm quite grateful to hear such a wide variety of performances of Nielsen's music and I find that, even if I don't particularly care for a performance, I learn something about the music and myself in the process.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 25, 2017, 06:49:52 AM
I know and own only one cycle of Nielsen's symphonies so I don't need to be dissappointed about anything. Having only one performance has it's benefits. Cheaper and less shelf space wasted.

:)

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 07:02:15 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2017, 06:49:52 AM
I know and own only one cycle of Nielsen's symphonies so I don't need to be dissappointed about anything. Having only one performance has it's benefits. Cheaper and less shelf space wasted.

:)

Which cycle do you own? Let me guess: Leaper's on Naxos? ::)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on April 25, 2017, 07:09:21 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 07:02:15 AM
Which cycle do you own? Let me guess: Leaper's on Naxos? ::)
Now now. I haven't heard that one. In any case there is enough cheap bargain priced Nielsen out there with major conductors and major orchestras. What an embarassment of riches !

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 09:49:48 AM


"Symphony No. 4, The Inextinguishable" - What a symphony! This is where Nielsen began structuring his music in an organic way, where each movement is played without pause and are interlocked. The finale of "The Inextinguishable" is a raucous timpani battle where the timpanists are given a significant amount of creative liberty to play as loudly as they can so they're almost drowning out the orchestra. It's a real hoot!

Hmmm I am surprised you don't particularly like Schumann's 4th Symphony then. It has a unifying theme and is the same "attaca" structure as Nielsen's 4th.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 25, 2017, 07:57:38 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 07:02:15 AM
Which cycle do you own? Let me guess: Leaper's on Naxos? ::)

Good guess!  0:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 08:51:40 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2017, 07:57:38 AM
Good guess!  0:)

Well, you're the 'Naxos guy' around here! :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 25, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 08:51:40 AM
Well, you're the 'Naxos guy' around here! :)
Well, it's better to be a "Naxos guy" than nobody.  ;)

I do have 5 non-Naxos Nielsen discs:

Chamber Music 1 - Dacapo
Chamber Music 2 - Dacapo
Orchestral Music - Dacapo
Theatre Music - BIS
Choral Works - Chandos
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 06:17:03 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2017, 11:26:50 AM
Well, it's better to be a "Naxos guy" than nobody.  ;)

I do have 5 non-Naxos Nielsen discs:

Chamber Music 1 - Dacapo
Chamber Music 2 - Dacapo
Orchestral Music - Dacapo
Theatre Music - BIS
Choral Works - Chandos


Consider me a nobody, then. :) But in actuality, I'm probably more of the BIS guy around here since I own so much from their catalog.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 07:24:25 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 25, 2017, 07:09:21 AM
Now now. I haven't heard that one. In any case there is enough cheap bargain priced Nielsen out there with major conductors and major orchestras. What an embarassment of riches !

Yep, so much to choose from.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 25, 2017, 07:09:21 AMHmmm I am surprised you don't particularly like Schumann's 4th Symphony then. It has a unifying theme and is the same "attaca" structure as Nielsen's 4th.

Yeah, I've never been a big fan of Schumann's orchestral music. I mean his symphonies are 'okay' and I can kind of understand their appeal, but compared to his contemporaries, his orchestral music doesn't come across as interesting enough for me. His chamber music is much more to my liking.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on April 25, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
(((
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 07:24:25 PM
Yeah, I've never been a big fan of Schumann's orchestral music. I mean his symphonies are 'okay' and I can kind of understand their appeal, but compared to his contemporaries, his orchestral music doesn't come across as interesting enough for me. His chamber music is much more to my liking.

and of course the Manfred Ouverture ... )))
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 26, 2017, 12:42:27 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 25, 2017, 06:17:03 PM
Consider me a nobody, then. :) But in actuality, I'm probably more of the BIS guy around here since I own so much from their catalog.

I have collected Suzuki's Bach Cantatas on BIS and it has been an expensive hobby.  ;D I am still missing volumes 51-54 and some of the secular cantatas discs. There's about 20 other BIS discs too including that Nielsen Theatre Music disc. So, I have about 75 BIS discs (around 500 Naxos CDs).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 26, 2017, 06:38:32 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 26, 2017, 12:42:27 AM
I have collected Suzuki's Bach Cantatas on BIS and it has been an expensive hobby.  ;D I am still missing volumes 51-54 and some of the secular cantatas discs. There's about 20 other BIS discs too including that Nielsen Theatre Music disc. So, I have about 75 BIS discs (around 500 Naxos CDs).

I couldn't even tell you how many BIS recordings I own.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on April 26, 2017, 06:47:36 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 26, 2017, 12:42:27 AM
I have collected Suzuki's Bach Cantatas on BIS and it has been an expensive hobby.  ;D I am still missing volumes 51-54 and some of the secular cantatas discs. There's about 20 other BIS discs too including that Nielsen Theatre Music disc. So, I have about 75 BIS discs (around 500 Naxos CDs).
Someone bought Volume II (10cds) of that BACH cantata cycle from me for $250 :-*

It was in shrinkwrap and not opened. Do you have any idea how hard it is to have brand new cds but the urge not to open them?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 26, 2017, 07:07:08 AM
Getting back to Nielsen, I'd love to hear all of you guys thoughts on his Sinfonia semplice. What do you think this symphony means? What do you think Nielsen is trying to get across to the listener?

I'll get the ball rolling with something I wrote in my review from a few days ago:

"Symphony No. 6, Sinfonia semplice" - The oddball of Nielsen's symphony cycle, but it's actually not so odd if you actually sit down and listen to it. When I finally understood this symphony, I was so happy that I persevered and continued trying to wrap my mind around it. This work contains some gnarly dissonances and is possibly the most forward-looking of all of his symphonies. There are many sporadic episodes here and there and sometimes you may wonder what relevance do any of them have in connection with each other, but you soon realize that the nature of this symphony, or, at least in my opinion, is that life as Nielsen knew it was coming to an end (he was quite in ill health whenever he wrote what would be his final symphony) and these episodes reveal a troubled mind, but also someone who was continuing to question the existence of all things. In this regard, this is actually the most tragic of all his symphonies and it reminds one of how our time is indeed quite limited.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on April 27, 2017, 03:40:05 AM
The past year I've listened mostly to the 2nd and 6th symphonies, primarily growing a new fondness for the 6th, which I may even find more brilliantly composed than the 3 that came before it. I don't ever think about the meaning of the 6th, or what Nielsen is trying to communicate, but rather just enjoy getting lost in the music. It's like a Jackson Pollock painting that uses every possible color, you can see, or hear, the various textures and colors, but the meaning can be interpreted differently for each viewer.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 27, 2017, 05:27:43 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 27, 2017, 03:40:05 AM
The past year I've listened mostly to the 2nd and 6th symphonies, primarily growing a new fondness for the 6th, which I may even find more brilliantly composed than the 3 that came before it. I don't ever think about the meaning of the 6th, or what Nielsen is trying to communicate, but rather just enjoy getting lost in the music. It's like a Jackson Pollock painting that uses every possible color, you can see, or hear, the various textures and colors, but the meaning can be interpreted differently for each viewer.

Sure, but you feel something for the music or, otherwise, you'd have no reason to return to it. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 27, 2017, 07:06:15 AM
I'd also add that there's quite a sardonic edge to Nielsen's Sinfonia semplice that makes it highly attractive to me.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 29, 2017, 09:47:38 AM
Not sure if I posted this before, but I'd love to see this Nielsen documentary digitally restored and available for purchase as it has some insightful commentary throughout:

https://www.youtube.com/v/r0a1CPcTDEA
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on April 30, 2017, 03:29:24 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 27, 2017, 07:06:15 AM
I'd also add that there's quite a sardonic edge to Nielsen's Sinfonia semplice that makes it highly attractive to me.

I agree with this. There's also an air of mystery with the work, it's never obvious with its direction, which I love. Even when I revisit the 6th after many listens I still continue to find, or hear, new things. Its a constant discovery, which might be why I'm starting to find this to be the most intriguing of Nielsen's symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 30, 2017, 03:31:39 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 30, 2017, 03:29:24 AM
I agree with this. There's also an air of mystery with the work, it's never obvious with its direction, which I love. Even when I revisit the 6th after many listens I still continue to find, or hear, new things. Its a constant discovery, which might be why I'm starting to find this to be the most intriguing of Nielsen's symphonies.

The delicate ambiguity of the work, in contrast to the many bold, clear statements of the earlier symphonies, "beguiles my sad fancy into smiling."
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on April 30, 2017, 03:35:09 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 30, 2017, 03:31:39 AM
The delicate ambiguity of the work, in contrast to the many bold, clear statements of the earlier symphonies, "beguiles my sad fancy into smiling."

+1 Cheers, Karl.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 30, 2017, 05:22:01 AM
I can't recall whether I've shared this article on the 3rd symphony before.  Them's some fighting words about interpretations...

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/re-thinking-nielsen%E2%80%99s-centennial-symphony
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 06:08:40 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 30, 2017, 03:31:39 AMThe delicate ambiguity of the work, in contrast to the many bold, clear statements of the earlier symphonies, "beguiles my sad fancy into smiling."

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 30, 2017, 03:29:24 AMI agree with this. There's also an air of mystery with the work, it's never obvious with its direction, which I love. Even when I revisit the 6th after many listens I still continue to find, or hear, new things. Its a constant discovery, which might be why I'm starting to find this to be the most intriguing of Nielsen's symphonies.

Thanks for your feedback, gentlemen. I almost felt like a person yelling on top of a mountain and there's not a soul in sight. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 06:11:06 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 30, 2017, 05:22:01 AM
I can't recall whether I've shared this article on the 3rd symphony before.  Them's some fighting words about interpretations...

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/re-thinking-nielsen%E2%80%99s-centennial-symphony

I agree with the writer about Blomstedt's San Francisco Espansiva. It's not too good. I haven't heard his earlier Danish account. One thing the writer did not talk about much was which performances he preferred other than a mention of the Horenstein, Salonen, and Schønwandt performances. Of course, I don't agree with his choices here either. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on April 30, 2017, 08:14:03 AM
Regarding the 6th, it is certainly a bit peculiar. Even in its orchestration where the orchestral force is rather modest, except Nielsen called for a variety of percussion instruments. There are moments where it always sounds like Stravinsky wrote it (especially the second mvt) but I can't recall off the top of my head what Stravinsky has written around 1920-1925 that is of this style.

I think part of the reason it is less popular with audiences is that it closes with a theme and variations mvt and not with a bang like most symphonies. I can only think of Brahm's 4th that closes with such a form but Brahms does certainly close it out with a bang. It is the same reason Sibelius 1st has been at times been criticized because the finale isn't as high octaned as we have grown to expect in a symphony. It is also a bit different from Nielsen's other symphonies where there is always something tugging at one another, one musical idea fighting another. Here they more or less co-exist and become inseparable.

Anyway I think it is a great work, not nearly as simple as the name suggests.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2017, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 30, 2017, 05:22:01 AM
I can't recall whether I've shared this article on the 3rd symphony before.  Them's some fighting words about interpretations...

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blog/the-gramophone-blog/re-thinking-nielsen%E2%80%99s-centennial-symphony
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 06:11:06 AM
I agree with the writer about Blomstedt's San Francisco Espansiva. It's not too good.

Thanks for the link, ørfeo. I agree with the critic about Blomstedt. I have 16 Nielsen Thirds; Blomstedt's is the one I really dislike (which I've mentioned many times in the past). The first movement seems robotic: metronome driven as though no human conductor is involved. There is no feeling of catharsis in the development's climactic waltz.

My favorites (especially the first four): Bernstein, Oramo, Kuchar, Schmidt, Rozhdestvensky, Salonen, Bostock, and the historical Frandsen.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on April 30, 2017, 10:56:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxMcjkWRChw

Nielsen: 4th Symphony - Juanjo Mena, DRSO (2015)

Holy moly. This is quite good.
Unfortunately no CD release.

Mena: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanjo_Mena
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 11:58:03 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on April 30, 2017, 08:14:03 AM
Regarding the 6th, it is certainly a bit peculiar. Even in its orchestration where the orchestral force is rather modest, except Nielsen called for a variety of percussion instruments. There are moments where it always sounds like Stravinsky wrote it (especially the second mvt) but I can't recall off the top of my head what Stravinsky has written around 1920-1925 that is of this style.

I think part of the reason it is less popular with audiences is that it closes with a theme and variations mvt and not with a bang like most symphonies. I can only think of Brahm's 4th that closes with such a form but Brahms does certainly close it out with a bang. It is the same reason Sibelius 1st has been at times been criticized because the finale isn't as high octaned as we have grown to expect in a symphony. It is also a bit different from Nielsen's other symphonies where there is always something tugging at one another, one musical idea fighting another. Here they more or less co-exist and become inseparable.

Anyway I think it is a great work, not nearly as simple as the name suggests.

Good commentary. For me, all of Nielsen's symphonies are unique, kaleidoscopic works that deserve to be studied as much as the symphonies of Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler, etc. I think you nailed the essence of Nielsen's music with this comment:

Quote...there is always something tugging at one another, one musical idea fighting another

The idea of struggle is nothing new in music of course, but Nielsen's approach to this kind of ideal is nothing short than ear-opening. The way his music comes to it's conclusions, which essentially shatter what had just come before it into a thousand pieces really intrigues me. The continuous forward-momentum of his music is also something that appeals to me. He hardly ever stays in the same spot and there's always this surging undercurrent that sweeps the music along as if it was a massive wave washing out everything on a shore.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: Turner on April 30, 2017, 10:56:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxMcjkWRChw

Nielsen: 4th Symphony - Juanjo Mena, DRSO (2015)

Holy moly. This is quite good.
Unfortunately no CD release.

Mena: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanjo_Mena

Quite good indeed. I've heard this Mena performance not too long ago. He seems to get the energy right. Of course, the Danish RSO performance admirably well. They breathe this music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 12:09:05 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2017, 10:05:21 AM
Thanks for the link, ørfeo. I agree with the critic about Blomstedt. I have 16 Nielsen Thirds; Blomstedt's is the one I really dislike (which I've mentioned many times in the past). The first movement seems robotic: metronome driven as though no human conductor is involved. There is no feeling of catharsis in the development's climactic waltz.

My favorites (especially the first four): Bernstein, Oramo, Kuchar, Schmidt, Rozhdestvensky, Salonen, Bostock, and the historical Frandsen.

Sarge

I found Blomstedt's SFSO performance to be all surface and there's the sense that he's just rushing and you nailed it about the waltz section. He just sounds like he's ready for his lunch break without paying much attention to these twists and turns that happen along the way.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 30, 2017, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 27, 2017, 07:06:15 AM
I'd also add that there's quite a sardonic edge to Nielsen's Sinfonia semplice that makes it highly attractive to me.

To me Sinfonia semplice sounds like Nielsen is done with writing symphonies. The symphony is a bit "silly" in nature as if Nielsen no longer has an interest of being serious. We would propably have Nielsen's 7th if I was wrong.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:03:58 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 30, 2017, 01:00:26 PM
To me Sinfonia semplice sounds like Nielsen is done with writing symphonies. The symphony is a bit "silly" in nature as if Nielsen no longer has an interest of being serious. We would propably have Nielsen's 7th if I was wrong.

"Silly" or not, I love the symphony and you would too if you had a better recording of it. ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on April 30, 2017, 01:08:41 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2017, 10:05:21 AM
Thanks for the link, ørfeo. I agree with the critic about Blomstedt. I have 16 Nielsen Thirds; Blomstedt's is the one I really dislike (which I've mentioned many times in the past). The first movement seems robotic: metronome driven as though no human conductor is involved. There is no feeling of catharsis in the development's climactic waltz.

My favorites (especially the first four): Bernstein, Oramo, Kuchar, Schmidt, Rozhdestvensky, Salonen, Bostock, and the historical Frandsen.

Sarge

I have often thought, that Blomstedt seems to favor cold perfection, and his SFSO Nielsen is no exception.

His earlier Nielsen recordings with the Danish RSO (EMI) are a bit "warmer". But still my favorites are almost identical with yours.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:12:19 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 30, 2017, 01:08:41 PM
I have often thought, that Blomstedt seems to favor cold perfection, and his SFSO Nielsen is no exception.

His earlier Nielsen recordings with the Danish RSO (EMI) are a bit "warmer". But still my favorites are almost identical with yours.

Blomstedt (SFSO) is excellent in Symphony Nos. 2, 4-6. I have yet hear anyone do a better 1st than Oramo. My favorite Espansiva performances: Bernstein, Oramo, and Chung.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 30, 2017, 01:28:11 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:03:58 PM
"Silly" or not, I love the symphony and you would too if you had a better recording of it. ;D

I DO like it nevertheless. Not my favorite Nielsen symphony, but great stuff, silly or not.  ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on April 30, 2017, 01:39:49 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:12:19 PM
Blomstedt (SFSO) is excellent in Symphony Nos. 2, 4-6.

If it must be Blomstedt I much prefer the earlier recording.



Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 30, 2017, 01:44:44 PM
It's specious to take the enigmatic tone of the Sixth Symphony as "indicating" that Nielsen was "tired of being serious."
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:54:46 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 30, 2017, 01:44:44 PM
It's specious to take the enigmatic tone of the Sixth Symphony as "indicating" that Nielsen was "tired of being serious."

Yeah, I find that a rather curious assertion on 71 dB's part. I should have just gave him an ::) and been done with it. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:57:02 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 30, 2017, 01:28:11 PM
I DO like it nevertheless. Not my favorite Nielsen symphony, but great stuff, silly or not.  ;)

I don't really find the symphony silly anyway. I find some of the music to be be humorous, but that's about it. This symphony has really affected me over the past few weeks like it never has before. For me, it's a remarkable achievement.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 30, 2017, 02:04:49 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 30, 2017, 01:44:44 PM
It's specious to take the enigmatic tone of the Sixth Symphony as "indicating" that Nielsen was "tired of being serious."

Well, that's the impression I get, honestly. In fact my best friend had similar opinions when I loaned the CD to him long ago...  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 30, 2017, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:57:02 PM
I don't really find the symphony silly anyway. I find some of the music to be be humorous, but that's about it. This symphony has really affected me over the past few weeks like it never has before. For me, it's a remarkable achievement.

That's ok and it's cool the symphony has become so important for you. I rank the symphonies this way: 4, 3, 2, 5, 6, 1.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:12:19 PM
Blomstedt (SFSO) is excellent in Symphony Nos. 2, 4-6. I have yet hear anyone do a better 1st than Oramo. My favorite Espansiva performances: Bernstein, Oramo, and Chung.

I forgot to include Chung in my list. Yes...another great Espansiva.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 30, 2017, 02:46:27 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 01:54:46 PM
Yeah, I find that a rather curious assertion on 71 dB's part. I should have just gave him an ::) and been done with it. :)

You asked people what the 6th symphony "meant", rather than how they felt about it. I'm honestly not surprised that people are attempting to peer into the mind of Nielsen in response.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 03:13:18 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
I forgot to include Chung in my list. Yes...another great Espansiva.

Sarge

Indeed. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 03:22:23 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 30, 2017, 01:00:26 PM
To me Sinfonia semplice sounds like Nielsen is done with writing symphonies. The symphony is a bit "silly" in nature as if Nielsen no longer has an interest of being serious (1). We would propably have Nielsen's 7th if I was wrong (2).

To the bolded text (1): I'll also say that if Nielsen had no interest in being serious, then what do we make of the late masterpieces like the Flute Concerto, Clarinet Concerto, Tre Klaverstykker, or Commotio?

To the bolded text (2): Nielsen died in 1931, 71 dB. His Sinfona semplice was finished in 1925. That is a six year gap between completion of the 6th and his passing. He wrote a good bit of music from from the mid-1920s up until the end, but this does in no way indicate that he was done with writing symphonies just because he stopped after his 6th.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on April 30, 2017, 05:41:07 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
I forgot to include Chung in my list. Yes...another great Espansiva.

Sarge

I agree Chung is great, along with Gilbert/NYP they are my choices for the 3rd.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on April 30, 2017, 05:41:07 PM
I agree Chung is great, along with Gilbert/NYP they are my choices for the 3rd.

The Gilbert cycle overall has grown on me in a big way. For me, not a dud in the bunch and that concerti disc is exemplary.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 01, 2017, 04:44:27 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on April 30, 2017, 02:46:27 PM
You asked people what the 6th symphony "meant", rather than how they felt about it. I'm honestly not surprised that people are attempting to peer into the mind of Nielsen in response.

I suppose some have yet to weary of the Shakespeare wrote Hamlet when he was sad, and wrote A Midsummer Night's Dream when he was happy model . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 01, 2017, 04:50:37 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 01, 2017, 04:44:27 AM
I suppose some have yet to weary of the Shakespeare wrote Hamlet when he was sad, and wrote A Midsummer Night's Dream when he was happy model . . . .

Indeed, it's a very popular model. I spent many years and a string of albums reading how the marriage of my favourite singer, Tori Amos, must be in trouble every time she wrote a song where there was a reference to any kind of conflict or sense of betrayal with another person, because not only must every song be from her own point of view but her husband must be the only significant person in her life.  She got married in 1998, this talk started in 2005, and it's now 2017.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 01, 2017, 04:59:28 AM
Uncanny!  ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 05:34:17 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 03:22:23 PM
To the bolded text (1): I'll also say that if Nielsen had no interest in being serious, then what do we make of the late masterpieces like the Flute Concerto, Clarinet Concerto, Tre Klaverstykker, or Commotio?

I said not interested in symphonies. Clearly he got more interested about concertos instead.

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2017, 03:22:23 PMTo the bolded text (2): Nielsen died in 1931, 71 dB. His Sinfona semplice was finished in 1925. That is a six year gap between completion of the 6th and his passing. He wrote a good bit of music from from the mid-1920s up until the end, but this does in no way indicate that he was done with writing symphonies just because he stopped after his 6th.

The fifth was finished in 1922 so working at that rate he could have finished his seventh by 1928 and even another one just before death.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on May 01, 2017, 05:54:48 AM
These are quite marginal views, but the Danish composers Karl Aage Rasmussen and Bo Holten both got the idea to orchestrate versions of "Commotio" (1930-31) at around the same time recently, and Holten argues that Commotio can be thought of as a symphonic fantasia, that is too ambitiously conceived for just the organ, and works better as a Nielsenesque parallel to Sibelius´ 7th Symphony.

In Danish:
https://www.doks.dk/organistbladet/703-2015/oktober/1895-bo-holten-commotio-maske-carl-nielsens-7-symfoni
http://www.fyens.dk/kultur/Carl-Nielsen-orgelvaerk-som-ny-symfoni/artikel/143830

As it is well-known, Nielsen had planned concertos for the wind quintet instruments, finishing only those for Flute and for Clarinet towards the end of his life (1927-28), leaving those for horn, oboe and bassoon un-attempted. The mere ambition might-might have taken some of his focus away from any symphonic projects too. But what an extraordinary quintet of concertos that would have been ...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 01, 2017, 06:05:20 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 05:34:17 AM
I said not interested in symphonies. Clearly he got more interested about concertos instead.

The fifth was finished in 1922 so working at that rate he could have finished his seventh by 1928 and even another one just before death.

But how do you know he wasn't interested in writing more symphonies? That's quite presumptuous of you.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 01, 2017, 06:35:41 AM
Quote from: Turner on May 01, 2017, 05:54:48 AM
[. . .] But what an extraordinary quintet of concertos that would have been ...

Forsooth!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 01, 2017, 06:57:01 AM
Quote from: Turner on May 01, 2017, 05:54:48 AMAs it is well-known, Nielsen had planned concertos for the wind quintet instruments, finishing only those for Flute and for Clarinet towards the end of his life (1927-28), leaving those for horn, oboe and bassoon un-attempted. The mere ambition might-might have taken some of his focus away from any symphonic projects too. But what an extraordinary quintet of concertos that would have been ...

Now that would have been something!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2017, 06:05:20 AM
But how do you know he wasn't interested in writing more symphonies? That's quite presumptuous of you.
I know hardly anything. I am just telling what kind of impression I get from the 6th symphony. I am only speculation based on my impressions. Who knows, maybe he wanted to write 10 more symphonies and would have started working on the next one in 1932...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 01, 2017, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 04, 2016, 02:36:10 AM
I've never considered the Violin Concerto at all disappointing. To me, that would be like finding fault with L'oiseau de feu because it isn't  Le sacre du printemps.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

A bit late to this post, but this is so eloquently put. I completely concur. Firebird is just as mesmerizing as Le sacre just like Nielsen's Violin Concerto is just as dazzling as his other concerti. I'll argue further that, while, yes, the Violin Concerto is an early work of Nielsen's, it shows plenty of inventiveness and contains many wondrous passages. The structure of this concerto is also quite unique.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 03:37:50 PM
Ordered the Blomstedt San Franss.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 01, 2017, 04:01:00 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 03:37:50 PM
Ordered the Blomstedt San Franss.

Awesome! Overall, it's a fine set. I'm not too impressed by his Sinfonia espansiva, but no cycle is perfect.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 01, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 03:37:50 PM
Ordered the Blomstedt San Franss.

+1
Excellent!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 01, 2017, 05:57:11 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 01, 2017, 05:31:57 PM
+1
Excellent!

71 dB threw a curveball with that Blomstedt purchase. :) I hope he enjoys the performances.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 10:55:56 PM
It's interesting that I paid about 25 euros for the "inferior" Leaper cycle back in the day and now about 11 euros for the "superior" Blomstedt cycle. 
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 02, 2017, 01:09:28 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 10:55:56 PM
It's interesting that I paid about 25 euros for the "inferior" Leaper cycle back in the day and now about 11 euros for the "superior" Blomstedt cycle. 

I don't have an opinion about the Leaper, but of course the Blomstedt is now available at a fraction of what it cost when first released.  Which is to our benefit  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 02, 2017, 01:42:24 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 02, 2017, 01:09:28 AM
I don't have an opinion about the Leaper, but of course the Blomstedt is now available at a fraction of what it cost when first released.  Which is to our benefit  :)

Yeah. 20 years ago it was like this: CDs are 22 euros unless it's Naxos when it's 8 euros. Sometimes you found a "full price" disc in a bargain bin for 10 euros. No wonder if one learns to appreciate Naxos' business model at those prices. At least I learned.  :) At the time I became interested of classical music 1996/97 Naxos had just become a major player among classical music labels and had a huge price advantage to others. It was time before Brilliant Classics and other dirt cheap big boxes by all labels we have today. Naxos has lost that advantage, but my Naxos collection did become large during those "golden years".

Then came online shopping! Suddenly the local music and book stores aren't your only source of classical CDs. At first online shopping meant MUCH bigger selection of items, but eventually the second hand market evolves and now CDs are available for £0.01 + shipping. At that point local music and book stores totally lose the competition and stop selling CDs. So, it's online shopping only apart of a few persistent classical music stores.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 02, 2017, 06:21:15 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2017, 10:55:56 PM
It's interesting that I paid about 25 euros for the "inferior" Leaper cycle back in the day and now about 11 euros for the "superior" Blomstedt cycle.

To the bolded text: what are you in 3rd grade? ::) Just because I didn't like Leaper's Nielsen doesn't mean that the same holds true for anyone else. In other words, get over it, man.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 02, 2017, 11:16:39 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2017, 06:21:15 AM
To the bolded text: what are you in 3rd grade? ::) Just because I didn't like Leaper's Nielsen doesn't mean that the same holds true for anyone else. In other words, get over it, man.

I certainly don't have a problem with you not liking Leaper's Nielsen. That's not my business. Each to their own.

You told you don't understand why someone listens to Leaper when sets of Blomstedt and Kuchar are so cheap and easy to pick up. That's when I had to explain my choices. I did it and I even ordered the Blomstedt cycle. I think I am well over it by now.  ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: snyprrr on May 02, 2017, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 02, 2017, 01:09:28 AM
Which is to our benefit  :)

Tell that to Blomstedt's nephew, who's struggling to get through college because... "we" can savor his uncle's great work for pennies on the dollar!! Oh, what have "we" become? :'(
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 02, 2017, 01:04:49 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on May 02, 2017, 11:57:54 AM
Tell that to Blomstedt's nephew, who's struggling to get through college because... "we" can savor his uncle's great work for pennies on the dollar!! Oh, what have "we" become? :'(
Free education is the answer to this "uncle problem".
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 02, 2017, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 02, 2017, 11:16:39 AM
I certainly don't have a problem with you not liking Leaper's Nielsen. That's not my business. Each to their own.

You told you don't understand why someone listens to Leaper when sets of Blomstedt and Kuchar are so cheap and easy to pick up. That's when I had to explain my choices. I did it and I even ordered the Blomstedt cycle. I think I am well over it by now.  ;)

You'd better brace yourself for someone claiming that you should have gotten Blomstedt's other Nielsen cycle with the Danish Radio Symphony, on EMI (now Warner).  :)

(I would definitely expect the Decca set to have more pleasing sound.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 02, 2017, 02:39:58 PM
Quote from: Scarpia on May 02, 2017, 02:34:48 PM
You'd better brace yourself for someone claiming that you should have gotten Blomstedt's other Nielsen cycle with the Danish Radio Symphony, on EMI (now Warner).  :)

(I would definitely expect the Decca set to have more pleasing sound.)

Nah. Schønwandt. As re-released on Naxos.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 02, 2017, 03:18:38 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 02, 2017, 02:39:58 PM
Nah. Schønwandt. As re-released on Naxos.

The same ones originally released on DaCapo (which I have somewhere)?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 02, 2017, 03:19:59 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 02, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 02, 2017, 03:19:59 PM
Yes.

Are Naxos and DaCapo somehow the same?

Anyway, the last time I listened to Nielsen symphonies, it was Salonen, which I found adequate but not inspiring.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 02, 2017, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Scarpia on May 02, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
Are Naxos and DaCapo somehow the same?

No. But have you never come across licensing of recordings before?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 02, 2017, 04:23:30 PM
Quote from: Scarpia on May 02, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
Are Naxos and DaCapo somehow the same?

Yes and no. DaCapo is "the Danish National label" Distributed by Naxos.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 02, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 02, 2017, 04:23:30 PM
Yes and no. DaCapo is "the Danish National label" Distributed by Naxos.

Which is not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about Naxos distributing discs that are labelled as Da Capo (in the same way they distribute a number of other labels). In the case of the Nielsen symphonies, the recordings have been re-released AS NAXOS DISCS.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: kishnevi on May 02, 2017, 05:35:11 PM
Quote from: Scarpia on May 02, 2017, 03:18:38 PM
The same ones originally released on DaCapo (which I have somewhere)?

This box maybe?
[asin]B005FF2U2Q[/asin]
Or the individual issues on Dacapo have red covers with a portrait of the composer.

Meanwhile, looking at Amazon I just realized I have the set I linked, and two of the Naxos CDs, and never noticed they were the same. Admittedly it has been quite a while since I played the Naxos versions.

BTW, I found this to be a perfectly satisfactory recording:
[asin]B001HMFCMQ[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 02, 2017, 05:47:23 PM
Regarding Leaper I think these are very good to excellent recordings:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GoxYYXG4L._SS500.jpg)

[asin]B000L42JDG[/asin]

[asin]B003NA7G9M[/asin]


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RDMd%2BlP6L._SS500.jpg)

Mr. Henning also posted a link awhile ago with Leaper conducting a relatively unknown non-British orchestra in Bax's Tintagel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lPDkk-8Mk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lPDkk-8Mk)

From here you can see he has pretty good baton techniques and is a good example of a so-called second-rate conductor teaming with a third rate orchestra producing first rate music that is idiomatic in every sense of the word. I think he is just as good a conductor as other Brits like John Wilson, or Martyn Brabbins, or Andrew Davis all of whom happen to recording on more "expensive" labels with bigger name orchestras.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 02, 2017, 06:37:42 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 02, 2017, 11:16:39 AM
I certainly don't have a problem with you not liking Leaper's Nielsen. That's not my business. Each to their own.

You told you don't understand why someone listens to Leaper when sets of Blomstedt and Kuchar are so cheap and easy to pick up. That's when I had to explain my choices. I did it and I even ordered the Blomstedt cycle. I think I am well over it by now.  ;)

Well, I'm glad you came to your senses and bought a good cycle of Nielsen symphonies. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 03, 2017, 01:52:04 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2017, 06:37:42 PM
Well, I'm glad you came to your senses and bought a good cycle of Nielsen symphonies. :)

I have lived 20 years believing Leaper's cycle IS good.  :P

Naxos needs to put a warning sticker on their Nielsen discs:

"WARNING: THIS IS A MEDIOCRE AT BEST PERFORMANCE. PLEASE BUY BLOMSTEDT'S OR KUCHAR'S CYCLE INSTEAD."
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 03, 2017, 02:02:19 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 02, 2017, 04:59:47 PM
Which is not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about Naxos distributing discs that are labelled as Da Capo (in the same way they distribute a number of other labels). In the case of the Nielsen symphonies, the recordings have been re-released AS NAXOS DISCS.

I know. I have some Buxtehude discs released by Dacapo I bought at full price long ago and then a decade later Naxos re-released the same recordings as Naxos discs at Naxos price in order to expand their Buxtehude selection. Quite annoying!  ::)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 03, 2017, 02:13:46 AM
My original point was merely that there is another Naxos Nielsen symphony cycle available for those who are into that sort of thing.

I bought the Da Capo box containing the same recordings because I also wanted the Dausgaard disc of orchestral works, and at the time the box was the cheaper method of getting everything.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 03, 2017, 03:03:13 AM
This discussion (and the excellent performance of Tintagel which I posted erewhile, as PW has reminded us) has me curious to try out the Leaper Nielsen cycle . . . I've found Used—Very Good copies of all three discs, $1.11 for the lot;  even adding the inevitable $11.97 shipping, it is like buying Naxos discs at their original price-point at the dawn of their venture  8)  An entirely acceptable risk::reward profile.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 03, 2017, 03:44:31 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 03, 2017, 03:03:13 AM
This discussion (and the excellent performance of Tintagel which I posted erewhile, as PW has reminded us) has me curious to try out the Leaper Nielsen cycle . . . I've found Used—Very Good copies of all three discs, $1.11 for the lot;  even adding the inevitable $11.97 shipping, it is like buying Naxos discs at their original price-point at the dawn of their venture  8)  An entirely acceptable risk::reward profile.

I really like the cover art of these Leaper discs. The paintings of J. F. Willumsen seem so right for Nielsen's music!  0:)

I'd had to pay total £6.63 delivered for these three discs if I had to buy them today.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 03, 2017, 05:10:23 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 24, 2017, 09:49:48 AM
"Symphony No. 3, Sinfonia espansiva" - I'll go ahead and say it "Symphony Nos. 3-6" are where's it at for me in terms of Nielsen's symphony cycle. The 3rd pretty much has done away with the kind of Romantic gesturing you hear in the 1st and 2nd and we start to hear Nielsen's compositional voice come into the fore. This is energetic, driven music that sounds like nothing you've heard before. Nielsen makes use in the second movement of two vocalists (a soprano and a baritone) singing in a wordless vocal style that calls to mind Vaughan Williams' usage of this kind of sound in his "Pastoral Symphony". This said, the "Sinfonia Espansiva" could be viewed as his "Pastoral Symphony" but even this description would be undermining the sheer energy and power this symphony projects to the listener.

I had to go back quite a lot of pages to go find your review and see what I thought as I'm getting into the symphonies more depth. Though of course, because I'm doing them out of order, I can't tell right now how "Romantic" the first 2 symphonies might be compared to this one!

But it's one of Nielsen's most fascinating qualities, a kind of anti-Romanticism (shared in some ways with Sibelius?) where he refuses to let the music descend into something gluggy. The start of the 2nd movement is an example of something that sounds as if it could turn a bit sentimental, but there's a clarity to the lines that prevents that from happening. Similarly with the wordless vocals, that's something you might expect to get terribly misty-eyed but Nielsen keeps that impulse in check.

Having recently spent a lot of time with the Chailly set of Brahms symphonies and the Gardiner set of Schumann ones, I do think there's something in common with those sorts of composers when they're played well, but Nielsen is from the time when late Romanticism was getting into it's biggest excesses so it's all the more interesting that he was more like an early Romantic than a late one.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 03, 2017, 05:32:53 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 03, 2017, 03:03:13 AM
This discussion (and the excellent performance of Tintagel which I posted erewhile, as PW has reminded us) has me curious to try out the Leaper Nielsen cycle . . . I've found Used—Very Good copies of all three discs, $1.11 for the lot;  even adding the inevitable $11.97 shipping, it is like buying Naxos discs at their original price-point at the dawn of their venture  8)  An entirely acceptable risk::reward profile.
Yes there is an edginess and concentration to the playing that is pretty awesome I think. Also a depth and richness to the sound, very atmospheric. I like how the opening flute trills are more prominent here than other recordings.

I found this video of the same orchestra playing of all things Walton's 1st. You hear the same rawness and sense of discovery as you do in Bax's Tintagel. Not Leaper conducting this time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q&t=1144s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q&t=1144s)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 03, 2017, 05:41:21 AM
To move to something non-symphonic: who has a recording of Springtime in Funen?

I'm only even aware of 2 recordings, one conducted by Leif Segerstam and the other by Tamás Vetö. I'm particularly curious about the Segerstam recording (which I think, Mirror Image, you might have bought recently?) as the album as a whole ticks some repertoire boxes very neatly, but I'd also like to know about any other recordings out there.

EDIT: The only professional review of the Segerstam disc that I know about, from Gramophone magazine, has a distinct air of disappointment. And the criticisms it makes about Segerstam pressing the music too hard resurface in an Amazon customer review. Hmm.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 03, 2017, 06:08:52 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 03, 2017, 05:41:21 AM
To move to something non-symphonic: who has a recording of Springtime in Funen?

I'm only even aware of 2 recordings, one conducted by Leif Segerstam and the other by Tamás Vetö. I'm particularly curious about the Segerstam recording (which I think, Mirror Image, you might have bought recently?) as the album as a whole ticks some repertoire boxes very neatly, but I'd also like to know about any other recordings out there.

EDIT: The only professional review of the Segerstam disc that I know about, from Gramophone magazine, has a distinct air of disappointment. And the criticisms it makes about Segerstam pressing the music too hard resurface in an Amazon customer review. Hmm.

I've got this, and I remember liking it.  Let me revisit it, and I shall report better.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519zOyI6FwL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 03, 2017, 06:38:37 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 03, 2017, 06:08:52 AM
I've got this, and I remember liking it.  Let me revisit it, and I shall report better.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519zOyI6FwL.jpg)

I have this too, but I haven't listened to it in ages! J. F. Willumsen's painting on the cover again!  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 03, 2017, 06:53:39 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 03, 2017, 05:10:23 AM
I had to go back quite a lot of pages to go find your review and see what I thought as I'm getting into the symphonies more depth. Though of course, because I'm doing them out of order, I can't tell right now how "Romantic" the first 2 symphonies might be compared to this one!

But it's one of Nielsen's most fascinating qualities, a kind of anti-Romanticism (shared in some ways with Sibelius?) where he refuses to let the music descend into something gluggy. The start of the 2nd movement is an example of something that sounds as if it could turn a bit sentimental, but there's a clarity to the lines that prevents that from happening. Similarly with the wordless vocals, that's something you might expect to get terribly misty-eyed but Nielsen keeps that impulse in check.

Having recently spent a lot of time with the Chailly set of Brahms symphonies and the Gardiner set of Schumann ones, I do think there's something in common with those sorts of composers when they're played well, but Nielsen is from the time when late Romanticism was getting into it's biggest excesses so it's all the more interesting that he was more like an early Romantic than a late one.

I can understand your sentiment in regards to Brahms and Schumann, but what Nielsen does, IMHO, is nod to tradition while keeping his distinctive approach to the symphony intact. The third movement, Allegretto un poco, has always reminded me of Janáček with those almost speech-like melodies and irregular, off-kilter rhythms. The last movement, Finale: Allegro, is absolutely ecstatic with joy and exuberance.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 03, 2017, 01:38:15 PM
Yes I can see that 3rd movement connection.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 03, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 03, 2017, 05:41:21 AM
To move to something non-symphonic: who has a recording of Springtime in Funen?

I'm only even aware of 2 recordings, one conducted by Leif Segerstam and the other by Tamás Vetö. I'm particularly curious about the Segerstam recording (which I think, Mirror Image, you might have bought recently?) as the album as a whole ticks some repertoire boxes very neatly, but I'd also like to know about any other recordings out there.

EDIT: The only professional review of the Segerstam disc that I know about, from Gramophone magazine, has a distinct air of disappointment. And the criticisms it makes about Segerstam pressing the music too hard resurface in an Amazon customer review. Hmm.

I like the Segerstam recording a lot;  the soloists, chorus, and children's chorus all sound lovely and assured, the orchestra sound beautiful (of course).  The critique of pressing the music too hard baffles me;  I hear ebullience and exultation, the affable seasonal joy apt to the cantata.  There is no sacrifice of ease, no compulsion.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 03, 2017, 02:39:01 PM
A very quick comparison on iTunes shows me that "ease" is not a quality I'd associate with Segerstam in comparison to the Tamas Veto recording in the equivalent passage.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 03, 2017, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 03, 2017, 02:39:01 PM
A very quick comparison on iTunes shows me that "ease" is not a quality I'd associate with Segerstam in comparison to the Tamas Veto recording in the equivalent passage.

So are you saying you like the Veto performance more?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 03, 2017, 03:00:52 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2017, 02:45:06 PM
So are you saying you like the Veto performance more?

After only about 5 minutes listening total I'm not saying anything of the kind. I'm merely saying that I can understand the basis of the criticisms - if reviewers (professional or Amazon) know that performance, then I can well understand them thinking that Segerstam has sacrificed some ease in comparison.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 03, 2017, 06:01:13 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 03, 2017, 03:00:52 PM
After only about 5 minutes listening total I'm not saying anything of the kind. I'm merely saying that I can understand the basis of the criticisms - if reviewers (professional or Amazon) know that performance, then I can well understand them thinking that Segerstam has sacrificed some ease in comparison.

Ah okay, the reason why I'm asking is because I own the Veto, but haven't heard it yet.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 04, 2017, 03:28:40 AM
Listening to the 1st symphony today, and yeah, coming to it after the 3rd and 5th I can hear how there are some traces of a slightly more conventional romanticism here.

Reminds me a bit of some Russian composers.

Thoroughly enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 03:37:16 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 03, 2017, 03:00:52 PM
After only about 5 minutes listening total I'm not saying anything of the kind. I'm merely saying that I can understand the basis of the criticisms - if reviewers (professional or Amazon) know that performance, then I can well understand them thinking that Segerstam has sacrificed some ease in comparison.

Several numbers in the score have rather brisk metronome markings, so perhaps their quarrel is with the composer  ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on May 04, 2017, 03:47:58 AM
This might be just my experience, but the 1st is one of those pieces that does benefit from a more extrovert Romantic take—needs to sound like the revolutionary work that it was at the time.

Sakari Oramo gets it right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhfhq6A9e-M&list=PLxOM2B_2NLkaZ1WuQvDJwdtFIuRpGTujM

(Also a very good performance of the 3rd)

Blomstedt is my other favourite, although maybe he drives things a bit too hard, i.e. at the opposite end of Schønwandt who is maybe too relaxed. Btw I do think the 1st is qualitatively the equal of the rest of the symphonies in the cycle, it's just stylistically different and yes a bit more Russian maybe. (all those flatted 7ths...)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 04, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 04, 2017, 03:37:16 AM
Several numbers in the score have rather brisk metronome markings, so perhaps their quarrel is with the composer  ;)

I think the excerpt was from the 1st number. I haven't looked at the score.

But while we're at it, can we just marvel at the sheer scope of the project that has made Nielsen's entire output available for free online?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 04:04:49 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 04, 2017, 03:37:16 AM
Several numbers in the score have rather brisk metronome markings, so perhaps their quarrel is with the composer  ;)

For instance:

Som en græsgrøn Plet : Allegretto un poco ([crotchet] = 96)

Der har vi den aldrende Sol igen : Allegretto moderato ([crotchet] = 84)

Nu vil vi ud og lege : Allegro ([crotchet] = 138)

Kom her, kom her : Allegro molto ([crotchet] = 160)


Of course, I do not know the Veto, and cannot comment on it.


The Segerstam performance, before any other consideration, I find satisfyingly musical.  It honors the markings in the score, and all the chorus, soloists and orchestra are on board, so I hear jubilant music, un-pressed.


Quote from: ørfeo on May 04, 2017, 03:58:20 AM
I think the excerpt was from the 1st number. I haven't looked at the score.

But while we're at it, can we just marvel at the sheer scope of the project that has made Nielsen's entire output available for free online?


The scope and generosity!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 04:10:32 AM
Quote from: amw on May 04, 2017, 03:47:58 AM
This might be just my experience, but the 1st is one of those pieces that does benefit from a more extrovert Romantic take—needs to sound like the revolutionary work that it was at the time.

I'm going to agree cautiously on the Allegro orgoglioso;  but honestly, I do not want the Andante over-Romantified – there is a delicacy there, which comes straight from Nielsen's musical character, and which I don't want a broad brush crushing.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on May 04, 2017, 04:11:39 AM
Fair enough. I would apply the same metric to the Allegro comodo I guess.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 05:43:27 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 04, 2017, 04:04:49 AM
For instance:

Som en græsgrøn Plet : Allegretto un poco ([crotchet] = 96)

Well, Vetô trends more to a bumptious 88, there.  I do not say it is absolutely wrong (maybe the space needed it), nor would I describe his reading simply as languorous 8) but my own preference is for the Segerstam.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 04, 2017, 04:04:49 AM
Der har vi den aldrende Sol igen : Allegretto moderato ([crotchet] = 84)

This, though, relaxes to 76-ish;  and begging your pardon, I'm going to consider that lazy (and possibly indulging the baritone soloist).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 05:54:15 AM
The children's choir number is only modestly under tempo, but the tone of their singing, the character of the performance, I find insufferable.

The men's choir number which follows is utterly indulgent, suet-ey slow, and although the very last measure is marked poco (!!) rall. they pour it on molto in the penultimate measure.  A number of my quarrels with the performance I am willing to overlook, but this is ghastly, IMO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 06:07:51 AM
. . . which of course pretty much leads us to expect . . .

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 04, 2017, 04:04:49 AM
Kom her, kom her : Allegro molto ([crotchet] = 160)

Nothing in the previous numbers of the cantata would lead us to expect that they are capable of this velocity, and they do go big and slow, 136.  Trying (whether by active intent, or passive disposition) to make it too Beethovenian, I suppose.

So, sure, reviewers who are accustomed to this reading of (or this manner of reading) the piece are going to consider a performance which means to honor the composer's engraved preferences, pressed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 06:08:55 AM
Looks like I should just stick with Segerstam in Springtime in Funen. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 06:10:42 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 06:08:55 AM
Looks like I should just stick with Segerstam in Springtime in Funen. :)

That would be my recommendation, but of course, your taste may run otherwise than mine!

And here, you can give it a try:

http://www.youtube.com/v/oerjskq5t-s
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 06:21:56 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 04, 2017, 06:10:42 AM
That would be my recommendation, but of course, your taste may run otherwise than mine!

And here, you can give it a try:

http://www.youtube.com/v/oerjskq5t-s

Thanks, Karl. I recently bought the Veto recording. I just haven't gave it a spin yet.

(http://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/51144282?wid=520&hei=520&fmt=pjpeg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 06:46:21 AM
Well, rather disappointed with the St Klemens School Choir!  0:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 04, 2017, 07:03:12 AM
Karl, I don't think I've ever seen you dissect a performance so thoroughly.

That's what they get for making Nielsen scores thoroughly available. With tempo markings.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 04, 2017, 07:04:55 AM
Just got an email: The seller canceled my order (symphonies 4-6), but I am getting symphonies 1-3.  :-X
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 07:13:13 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 04, 2017, 07:04:55 AM
Just got an email: The seller canceled my order (symphonies 4-6), but I am getting symphonies 1-3.  :-X

That stinks. Well, definitely try to reorder it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 04, 2017, 07:22:38 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 07:13:13 AM
That stinks. Well, definitely try to reorder it.
Yeah. These cancellations are very annoying.  I'll check out the 1-3 set first how much I like Blomstedt's vision of Nielsen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 07:23:51 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 04, 2017, 07:22:38 AM
Yeah. These cancellations are very annoying.  I'll check out the 1-3 set first how much I like Blomstedt's vision of Nielsen.

The first and second symphonies are given great performances, but it's the Espansiva that doesn't quite engage this listener, but YMMV.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 04, 2017, 08:13:24 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 04, 2017, 07:03:12 AM
Karl, I don't think I've ever seen you dissect a performance so thoroughly.

I guess it is a while since I've done.  I don't think it's officially the first time  ;)

Quote from: ørfeo
That's what they get for making Nielsen scores thoroughly available. With tempo markings.

Aye, but (especially given the Segerstam as a point of comparison) some things (the men's choir most especially) sound wrong-headedly stodgy to me, even without the support of the source document.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 07:53:55 PM
I'd love to watch someone perhaps on YouTube do an analysis of Nielsen's Sinfonia semplice with plenty of musical examples and audio excerpts being presented along the way.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 05, 2017, 06:11:04 AM
I'll stop raving about the 5th soon, but... do you know why I think I'm so immediately in love with the 5th?

I think it's because each of the 2 movements is big enough and rich enough to be a work in its own right. Today I've been particularly focusing on getting to know the 2nd movement better, and it's practically a smaller symphony (2nd section scherzo coming before 3rd section andante in this case).

Combine that with the great broad arch of the 1st movement, fully satisfying on its own terms, and you've got a very rich listening experience for the symphony as a whole. 
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 05, 2017, 06:11:35 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 05, 2017, 06:11:04 AM
I'll stop raving about the 5th soon

Why?  0:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 05, 2017, 06:29:48 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 05, 2017, 06:11:35 AM
Why?  0:)

Because I'll be busy listening to even-numbered symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 05, 2017, 06:32:55 AM
Well, all right, then!

The Fifth really is a kind of double-bill symphony.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 05, 2017, 06:37:42 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 04, 2017, 07:53:55 PM
I'd love to watch someone perhaps on YouTube do an analysis of Nielsen's Sinfonia semplice with plenty of musical examples and audio excerpts being presented along the way.
You won't get it because it is the least performed of Nielsen's symphonies. No one is going to bother.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 06:40:45 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 05, 2017, 06:37:42 AM
You won't get it because it is the least performed of Nielsen's symphonies. No one is going to bother.

Well, one can wish can't they? ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 06:43:07 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 05, 2017, 06:11:04 AM
I'll stop raving about the 5th soon, but... do you know why I think I'm so immediately in love with the 5th?

I think it's because each of the 2 movements is big enough and rich enough to be a work in its own right. Today I've been particularly focusing on getting to know the 2nd movement better, and it's practically a smaller symphony (2nd section scherzo coming before 3rd section andante in this case).

Combine that with the great broad arch of the 1st movement, fully satisfying on its own terms, and you've got a very rich listening experience for the symphony as a whole.

Talk about the 5th as much as you like, my friend. No worries. I'll be happy to read your thoughts. I love it, too. Karl called this a 'double-bill symphony' and that's a good term for it as both movements provide a plethora of ideas and varying moods.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 05, 2017, 06:48:01 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 05, 2017, 06:37:42 AM
You won't get it because it is the least performed of Nielsen's symphonies. No one is going to bother.

They'll bother when doing the whole set of symphonies. While I don't think/remember them having the level of analysis Mirror Image, I can remember at least one website having a set of introductions of all 6 works.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 05, 2017, 06:50:21 AM
Well, maybe I see a niche . . . .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 08:11:00 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 05, 2017, 06:48:01 AM
They'll bother when doing the whole set of symphonies. While I don't think/remember them having the level of analysis Mirror Image, I can remember at least one website having a set of introductions of all 6 works.

Ah yes, this must be the site you're referring to perhaps?

http://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2015/06/09/411256072/evenly-odd-carl-nielsens-distinctive-symphonies
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: NorthNYMark on May 05, 2017, 12:21:23 PM
I don't recall if it was initially this thread or something else, but I was prompted to explore some Nielsen last night and this morning (via Spotify). I'd started the exploration a couple of years ago and was impressed with his work, but for some reason went into more of a rock and jazz phase for a while. Returning to that exploration, I listened to symphonies 4 and 5, plus the Clarinet Concerto. Wow--the concerto in particular was stunning--I'm surprised it does not get more attention! The symphonies were very impressive as well--very accessible without feeling too corny or film soundtrack-like. It took me a while to decide on what performace of the symphonies to start out with--I sampled the first minute or so (from the 3rd and 4th symphonies) of a bunch of cycles. The ones that felt most engaging were those by both Jarvis (Neeme and Paavo), Chung, and Kuchar (though I realize the limitations of my method--perhaps those who impress most in the opening may not have the most satisfying interpretations of the overall work--still, one has to start somewhere). For the Clarinet Concerto, those that impressed me most were the Blomstedt and the younger Jarvi (I ended up listening to the entire Blomstedt, and look forward to hearing the Jarvi--what an amazing work!!!)

For the symphonies, I decided to begin with the younger Jarvi. While I remember this from my earlier traversal, I was nonetheless struck anew by the orchestral color of both symphonies. For a violinist, Nielsen seems to have a particular affinity for woodwinds, and is also quite effective with percussion. I'll definitely be listening to more of Nielsen--it will take a while to start familiarizing myself with the major works, not to mention exploring the breadth of his oeuvre. Thanks to those of you who have kept this thread going!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 05, 2017, 02:18:37 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 08:11:00 AM
Ah yes, this must be the site you're referring to perhaps?

http://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2015/06/09/411256072/evenly-odd-carl-nielsens-distinctive-symphonies

Yes, that's the one I was thinking of.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 03:08:40 PM
Quote from: NorthNYMark on May 05, 2017, 12:21:23 PM
I don't recall if it was initially this thread or something else, but I was prompted to explore some Nielsen last night and this morning (via Spotify). I'd started the exploration a couple of years ago and was impressed with his work, but for some reason went into more of a rock and jazz phase for a while. Returning to that exploration, I listened to symphonies 4 and 5, plus the Clarinet Concerto. Wow--the concerto in particular was stunning--I'm surprised it does not get more attention! The symphonies were very impressive as well--very accessible without feeling too corny or film soundtrack-like. It took me a while to decide on what performace of the symphonies to start out with--I sampled the first minute or so (from the 3rd and 4th symphonies) of a bunch of cycles. The ones that felt most engaging were those by both Jarvis, Chung, and Kuchar (though I realize the limitations of my method--perhaps those who impress most in the opening may not have the most satisfying interpretations of the overall work--still, one has to start somewhere). For the Clarinet Concerto, those that impressed me most were the Blomstedt and the younger Jarvi (I ended up listening to the entire Blomstedt, and look forward to hearing the Jarvi--what an amazing work!!!)

For the symphonies, I decided to begin with the younger Jarvi. While I remember this from my earlier traversal, I was nonetheless struck anew by the orchestral color of both symphonies. For a violinist, Nielsen seems to have a particular affinity for woodwinds, and is also quite effective with percussion. I'll definitely be listening to more of Nielsen--it will take a while to start familiarizing myself with the major works, not to mention exploring the breadth of his oeuvre. Thanks to those of you who have kept this thread going!

Nielsen's international status, compared to that of say Mahler, Sibelius, or Strauss, is still something that baffles me. Nielsen was a contemporary of all three composers (and not to mention Debussy) and, yet, it's still somewhat of a rare thing to hear any of his music outside of Denmark and the other Nordic countries. He certainly was a major composer of the 20th Century and did much to expand on the symphonic form. He's as distinctive as any of the afore mentioned composers, but it seems Nielsen's music has alluded many over the years. Also, I find the comparisons people have made of Nielsen and Sibelius to be quite odd. These composers couldn't be anymore different from each other.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 05, 2017, 03:32:22 PM
Nah, Nielsen and Sibelius definitely have some things in common in my view. The key thing being a move away from high/late Romanticism to something more classical/objective.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 05, 2017, 03:32:22 PM
Nah, Nielsen and Sibelius definitely have some things in common in my view. The key thing being a move away from high/late Romanticism to something more classical/objective.

But my point is would you mistake Sibelius for Nielsen or vice versa? I wouldn't.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 05, 2017, 04:08:16 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 04:05:12 PM
But my point is would you mistake Sibelius for Nielsen or vice versa? I wouldn't.

No I wouldn't either. But you just referred to comparisons. I would quite happily note things they had in common.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 05, 2017, 04:08:16 PM
No I wouldn't either. But you just referred to comparisons. I would quite happily note things they had in common.

Hmm...that would be interesting. Besides being born in the same year (1865) and pushing their own brand of late-Romanticism into early Modernism, what would you say they have in common?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: NorthNYMark on May 05, 2017, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 03:08:40 PM
Nielsen's international status, compared to that of say Mahler, Sibelius, or Strauss, is still something that baffles me. Nielsen was a contemporary of all three composers (and not to mention Debussy) and, yet, it's still somewhat of a rare thing to hear any of his music outside of Denmark and the other Nordic countries. He certainly was a major composer of the 20th Century and did much to expand on the symphonic form. He's as distinctive as any of the afore mentioned composers, but it seems Nielsen's music has alluded many over the years. Also, I find the comparisons people have made of Nielsen and Sibelius to be quite odd. These composers couldn't be anymore different from each other.

Based on my initial impressions, I'd tend to agree. To me, he seems to fit right in with Mahler, Sibelius, and Strauss, but if anything is more interesting (to me, upon initial listens) than any of them. Perhaps Sibelius's 4th Symphony (my favorite of his) could be seen as leaning in a more fashionably modernist direction, but otherwise I'm not sure why Nielsen would be either less critically acclaimed or less popular with the general public. I think the impact of Scandinavian folk music is perhaps slightly more overt in bis work than in that of Sibelius (and I'm aware of its importance to Sibelius), but an overt folk influence certainly never got in the way of Bartok's reputation. It's kind of a head scratcher to me that Nielsen is not as popular as Mahler.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mahlerian on May 05, 2017, 04:52:18 PM
Quote from: NorthNYMark on May 05, 2017, 04:41:10 PM
Based on my initial impressions, I'd tend to agree. To me, he seems to fit right in with Mahler, Sibelius, and Strauss, but if anything is more interesting (to me, upon initial listens) than any of them. Perhaps Sibelius's 4th Symphony (my favorite of his) could be seen as leaning in a more fashionably modernist direction, but otherwise I'm not sure why Nielsen would be either less critically acclaimed or less popular with the general public. I think the impact of Scandinavian folk music is perhaps slightly more overt in bis work than in that of Sibelius (and I'm aware of its importance to Sibelius), but an overt folk influence certainly never got in the way of Bartok's reputation. It's kind of a head scratcher to me that Nielsen is not as popular as Mahler.

Speaking from my personal experience only, Nielsen's music doesn't make sense to me.  I can follow it, but all I perceive are its surface structural processes and not its inner life, whereas the music of Mahler and (to a lesser extent) Sibelius is alive and full of resonance.  Nielsen's music is interesting, but (and this is my failing) it doesn't do anything else for me.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: NorthNYMark on May 05, 2017, 04:41:10 PMBased on my initial impressions, I'd tend to agree. To me, he seems to fit right in with Mahler, Sibelius, and Strauss, but if anything is more interesting (to me, upon initial listens) than any of them. Perhaps Sibelius's 4th Symphony (my favorite of his) could be seen as leaning in a more fashionably modernist direction, but otherwise I'm not sure why Nielsen would be either less critically acclaimed or less popular with the general public. I think the impact of Scandinavian folk music is perhaps slightly more overt in bis work than in that of Sibelius (and I'm aware of its importance to Sibelius), but an overt folk influence certainly never got in the way of Bartok's reputation. It's kind of a head scratcher to me that Nielsen is not as popular as Mahler.

I love a lot of Sibelius and Mahler whereas Strauss I can take or leave (I do enjoy some of his music a good deal). Perhaps it has to do with how Nielsen treats his musical material? Perhaps it has to do with his general musical outlook? I really have no idea. All I know is I hear an original voice in his music and I certainly can recognize that this voice perhaps isn't as universal as us Nielsen fans would like it to be. As for the folk influence, I'd say that's only a small part of his overall sound. Surely the music of Brahms, Beethoven, Haydn, and Mozart have cast their influence over his music. It's what he did with tradition in conjunction with what he felt he needed to express that obviously give his music their unique expression. No one sounds like him --- this I do know.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 05:18:32 PM
Quote from: Mahlerian on May 05, 2017, 04:52:18 PM
Speaking from my personal experience only, Nielsen's music doesn't make sense to me.  I can follow it, but all I perceive are its surface structural processes and not its inner life, whereas the music of Mahler and (to a lesser extent) Sibelius is alive and full of resonance.  Nielsen's music is interesting, but (and this is my failing) it doesn't do anything else for me.

That's more than fair enough. Nielsen took me quite some time to pin-down but when his music did finally click with me --- there was no turning my back ever again. I will say that, even though in my beginning stages of understanding, and appreciating, I didn't quite understand it, but the music did have something alluring about it and I did hear what you simply admitted to not hearing: an inner life.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: NorthNYMark on May 05, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
Quote from: Mahlerian on May 05, 2017, 04:52:18 PM
Speaking from my personal experience only, Nielsen's music doesn't make sense to me.  I can follow it, but all I perceive are its surface structural processes and not its inner life, whereas the music of Mahler and (to a lesser extent) Sibelius is alive and full of resonance.  Nielsen's music is interesting, but (and this is my failing) it doesn't do anything else for me.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. It's interesting how differently certain music resonates with different people. I'm still pretty new to all this music--I've only been listening seriously to classical music for about four or five years now, so my responses to composers like Mahler (not to mention Nielsen) are likely to develop in different ways over time. I was revisiting Mahler not long ago, particularly his 9th symphony. Generally I find his first movements very intriguing and involving (and the main theme in the 7th Symphony's first movement is one of the catchiest I've ever heard), but I seem have a particularly hard time relating to the polkas, the marches, and the vocal parts, so his works sometimes feel like they're being interrupted in midstream to me. I'm finding the 9th to feel a bit more like a coherent whole than some of the others, though. Obviously, there's something about Mahler that keeps me coming back, even when it doesn't fully click with me.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 08:39:11 PM
It is quite remarkable how each of us reacts so differently to a composer's music. For me, Nielsen's music overflows with energy and he had such a zest for life. As Robert Simpson explains, he wasn't a composer that looked onto the world with dismay, in fact, he did the opposite. His music isn't about the sorrows and trials of everyday life and he doesn't bother with expressing these kinds of feelings like Mahler does for example. Nielsen, at his best, represents the power of the nature and how it can sweep one away if one doesn't pay attention to their surroundings. If someone doesn't connect with his music, that's fine by me, but I'm certainly glad I continued to listen, because I couldn't live without his music now.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 05, 2017, 08:57:37 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 04:14:52 PM
Hmm...that would be interesting. Besides being born in the same year (1865) and pushing their own brand of late-Romanticism into early Modernism, what would you say they have in common?

Okay, I'll try to construct something sensible... though the first thing I should say is don't underestimate the importance of them both stepping away from Romanticism. Because the way that they did that is quite different to other innovative composers. Where you've got other people of the same generation either being heavily influenced by Wagner or doing things that dissolve tonality, these two wrote music that still feels firmly tonal. Instead they innovated in the ways they developed their forms and themes.

Nordic, obviously (one Danish, one Finnish Swede), which I do think means something culturally. I find it interesting they both wrote quite a bit of incidental music, I'm not sure how much that's just a function of the era but I'm aware of more of that for them than for most composers. Quite a lot of (underappreciated) choral and vocal music, often with a dash of nationalism (again, maybe partly just due to the era but I see that as a commonality).

I don't want to play up the similarities, either. I agree with you that they're not the same. But I don't see them as at opposite poles, either.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 02:54:46 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 03:08:40 PM
Nielsen's international status, compared to that of say Mahler, Sibelius, or Strauss, is still something that baffles me. Nielsen was a contemporary of all three composers (and not to mention Debussy) and, yet, it's still somewhat of a rare thing to hear any of his music outside of Denmark and the other Nordic countries. He certainly was a major composer of the 20th Century and did much to expand on the symphonic form. He's as distinctive as any of the afore mentioned composers, but it seems Nielsen's music has alluded many over the years. Also, I find the comparisons people have made of Nielsen and Sibelius to be quite odd. These composers couldn't be anymore different from each other.

Nielsen's international status indeed is oddly weak. To me Nielsen is among the most important 20th century composers. I am a Finn who doesn't care much about Sibelius, but Nielsen is among my favorite composers. He was been that ever since I heard his fourth symphony on radio two decades ago and was really blown away, something the music of Sibelius, Mahler, Strauss or Debussy have never done to me. In fact, of all composers of that era only Elgar has a stronger effect on me.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 03:01:17 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 05, 2017, 03:32:22 PM
Nah, Nielsen and Sibelius definitely have some things in common in my view. The key thing being a move away from high/late Romanticism to something more classical/objective.

Yes, but they moved more or less in different directions. Music is a multidimensional artform so there's a lot of directions to choose from. Even if you move into the same direction in some dimensions, you can move in opposite directions in other dimensions.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mahlerian on May 06, 2017, 03:05:29 AM
Quote from: NorthNYMark on May 05, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. It's interesting how differently certain music resonates with different people. I'm still pretty new to all this music--I've only been listening seriously to classical music for about four or five years now, so my responses to composers like Mahler (not to mention Nielsen) are likely to develop in different ways over time. I was revisiting Mahler not long ago, particularly his 9th symphony. Generally I find his first movements very intriguing and involving (and the main theme in the 7th Symphony's first movement is one of the catchiest I've ever heard), but I seem have a particularly hard time relating to the polkas, the marches, and the vocal parts, so his works sometimes feel like they're being interrupted in midstream to me. I'm finding the 9th to feel a bit more like a coherent whole than some of the others, though. Obviously, there's something about Mahler that keeps me coming back, even when it doesn't fully click with me.

Mahler's music is actually very focused, despite the constant variation on the surface, and all of his symphonies present a coherent argument from beginning to end.  The logic can certainly take time to reveal itself, but it's always there.  I don't think of the references to popular forms as any more distracting in Mahler than they are in Beethoven or Haydn.

Anyway, enough of digressions, back to Nielsen!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 03:59:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 08:39:11 PM
It is quite remarkable how each of us reacts so differently to a composer's music.

It is, but it's the same with other things such as films. My favorite movies aren't your favorite movies. Our neural networks organize themself in different ways because we have different sets of neural blocks preventing organization. These blocks are results of life experiencies and the purpose of them is most logically to simplify the world for us, inhibite the chaotic flow of information. We all have lived different lives so we have different neural blocks. Blocks can be removed, but there might be another block preventing the removal. It can be a puzzle to remove blocks and that's why it can take a lot of time and effort.

So, when a teenager says heavy metal "rulezzz!"and all other music "suxxx!" it's because he/she has a lot of neural blocks making the world simple and ordered for him/her (heavy metal rules. All other music sucks. Simple as that). When a person manages to remove neural blocks, the world reveals it's extreme level of complexity and that might feel scary and unpleasant. So, we might prefer keeping the blocks, but we can also try to be open-minded and prevent new blocks from appearing with new information.

I liked Nielsen and Elgar instantly so I didn't have neural blocks preventing me to understand and appreciate their music, but I seem to have a persistent "Sibelius block" for example. Maybe I would have to see the world in ways I don't want to in order to really "get" Sibelius?

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 05, 2017, 08:39:11 PMFor me, Nielsen's music overflows with energy and he had such a zest for life. As Robert Simpson explains, he wasn't a composer that looked onto the world with dismay, in fact, he did the opposite. His music isn't about the sorrows and trials of everyday life and he doesn't bother with expressing these kinds of feelings like Mahler does for example. Nielsen, at his best, represents the power of the nature and how it can sweep one away if one doesn't pay attention to their surroundings. If someone doesn't connect with his music, that's fine by me, but I'm certainly glad I continued to listen, because I couldn't live without his music now.

I find Nielsen music "sunny" and "zesty". It's like drinking lemon sodapop on a warm sunny summer day. Nielsen music has a wonderful combination of maturity and childishness similar to Elgar. Nielsen also feels creative and inventive.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 03:59:45 AM
It is, but it's the same with other things such as films. My favorite movies aren't your favorite movies. Our neural networks organize themself in different ways because we have different sets of neural blocks preventing organization. These blocks are results of life experiencies and the purpose of them is most logically to simplify the world for us, inhibite the chaotic flow of information. We all have lived different lives so we have different neural blocks. Blocks can be removed, but there might be another block preventing the removal. It can be a puzzle to remove blocks and that's why it can take a lot of time and effort.

So, when a teenager says heavy metal "rulezzz!"and all other music "suxxx!" it's because he/she has a lot of neural blocks making the world simple and ordered for him/her (heavy metal rules. All other music sucks. Simple as that). When a person manages to remove neural blocks, the world reveals it's extreme level of complexity and that might feel scary and unpleasant. So, we might prefer keeping the blocks, but we can also try to be open-minded and prevent new blocks from appearing with new information.

I liked Nielsen and Elgar instantly so I didn't have neural blocks preventing me to understand and appreciate their music, but I seem to have a persistent "Sibelius block" for example. Maybe I would have to see the world in ways I don't want to in order to really "get" Sibelius?

I find Nielsen music "sunny" and "zesty". It's like drinking lemon sodapop on a warm sunny summer day. Nielsen music has a wonderful combination of maturity and childishness similar to Elgar. Nielsen also feels creative and inventive.

I was with you for about one sentence until you started talking about neural blocks. It is not simply a case of liking more things as we get older/more experienced, because what you're ignoring is that we have different sets of values.

And values are not "neural blocks". They're not negatives ("I can't appreciate this"), they are positives ("these are the things I like and respond to").

It doesn't matter how much I am exposed to any and every type of music, there are things that I value as part of my personality - not merely musical qualities, but qualities more generally - that are going to influence exactly which music I like regardless of its genre.

I get thoroughly tired of people picking heavy metal as an example. Personally I never liked heavy metal as a teenager. My nephew, on the other hand, loves it. But he's musical, and it's not simply a case of him mindlessly having the same reaction to everything in the genre any more than I have the same reaction to every classical composer or to every female piano-playing singer-songwriter (any website that says "you like Tori Amos? then in that case we think you'll like all these other women" loses points with me).

There is certainly an element of having to get used to styles of music that we find unfamiliar, yes. But there is no way that is the sum total of what determines our responses, and no amount of removal of "neural blocks" will get me to like music that fundamentally doesn't align with my own values.

The world does not consist of billions of people all with the exact same neural network just waiting to be "unblocked".
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 06, 2017, 05:00:10 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 03:59:45 AM
I find Nielsen music "sunny" and "zesty". It's like drinking lemon sodapop on a warm sunny summer day. Nielsen music has a wonderful combination of maturity and childishness similar to Elgar. Nielsen also feels creative and inventive.

Well said.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 06, 2017, 05:00:55 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AM
The world does not consist of billions of people all with the exact same neural network just waiting to be "unblocked".

Thank heaven!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 06:47:20 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AM
I was with you for about one sentence...

That's one more than people typically are.  ;D

Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AM...until you started talking about neural blocks. It is not simply a case of liking more things as we get older/more experienced, because what you're ignoring is that we have different sets of values.

It's not as if these blocks get removed as we get older. We remove some, but other blocks are generated. If your life is chaotic and hard you are likely to create more blocks to simplify the world for you. For example populism is based on this. If you are happy, your life is in order and you don't fear anything you are likely to push blocks (such as "all muslims are bad people") away.

Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AMAnd values are not "neural blocks". They're not negatives ("I can't appreciate this"), they are positives ("these are the things I like and respond to").

Blocks are negatives and lack of blocks are positives.

Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AMIt doesn't matter how much I am exposed to any and every type of music, there are things that I value as part of my personality - not merely musical qualities, but qualities more generally - that are going to influence exactly which music I like regardless of its genre.

Neural blocks are part of as and partly makes us what we are. Without any blocks we all would be some kind of aliens, part of a "supermind". It's human to have weaknesses and you should get angry about your blocks. We all have them. I have "Sibelius" block for example and I can live with it. It's possible there's a minimum of these blocks and it's impossible to be completely free of them. Maybe sanity needs them?

Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AMI get thoroughly tired of people picking heavy metal as an example. Personally I never liked heavy metal as a teenager. My nephew, on the other hand, loves it. But he's musical, and it's not simply a case of him mindlessly having the same reaction to everything in the genre any more than I have the same reaction to every classical composer or to every female piano-playing singer-songwriter (any website that says "you like Tori Amos? then in that case we think you'll like all these other women" loses points with me).

Well, I chose heavy metal randomly. I could have chosen Justin Bieder or Snoop Dogg. For the record, I have never been into heavy metal myself. I had a heavy metal block as a teenager and I still have.  :P

Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AMThere is certainly an element of having to get used to styles of music that we find unfamiliar, yes. But there is no way that is the sum total of what determines our responses, and no amount of removal of "neural blocks" will get me to like music that fundamentally doesn't align with my own values.

Your values are also determined by blocks and lack of them. Blocks can also prevent us to see negative aspects and having some blocks may enable things we would not like without. Racists "like" racism because their blocks prevent them to see the negative aspects of racism.

Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 04:27:57 AMThe world does not consist of billions of people all with the exact same neural network just waiting to be "unblocked".

Yes, we all do not have a brain of Albert Einstein, but the main reason why Einstein was able to accomplish what he did was his open-mindness, lack of blocks that prevented other smart people around him to make those scientific discoveries.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: North Star on May 06, 2017, 07:14:14 AM
I'd like to have a metal block now.
(https://store.lab-aids.com/assets/images/content/correlations/Rectangular_Metal_Block,_Long.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 06, 2017, 07:46:56 AM
I have no idea what 71 dB is talking about, but it doesn't make one bit of sense. "Neural blocks"? ??? Come on. ::) Anyway, I think it has more to do with what orfeo was talking about: we all have our own musical standards and values that help us evaluate whether the music is for us or not. When coming across something that you don't like initially, it's more about your own preferences and what you value in music, then it is anything else. There's certainly no 'blocks' happening from where I'm sitting. You can dislike something on first-listen but still have an intense interest or are intrigued by it in some way that you revisit it and find that it was music that simply doesn't give it's secrets so easily.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 09:51:53 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2017, 07:46:56 AM
I have no idea what 71 dB is talking about, but it doesn't make one bit of sense. "Neural blocks"? ??? Come on. ::)

I came up with this neural block theory in about 10 seconds while writing about it. I am a system thinker and these ideas are natural for me. The theory of neural blocks is far from perfect, but it is a starting point in explaining why people have different tastes and why our taste evolves at varying speed. Anyone is free to express counter-claims. That's how theories get better. "Doesn't make sense" isn't constructive critisism. You need to explain why it does not make sense so we can make corrections to the theory. You people have blocks against my theory about blocks!  ;D

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2017, 07:46:56 AMAnyway, I think it has more to do with what orfeo was talking about: we all have our own musical standards and values that help us evaluate whether the music is for us or not.

Why evaluate the music but not your own values and standards? Shouldn't we evaluate EVERYTHING? Verdi is perhaps not for me, but is it the music or my neural blocks or both? I am on thin ice if I ONLY evaluate Verdi. Why should I fear finding out about the blocks? It's only human to have them.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2017, 07:46:56 AMWhen coming across something that you don't like initially, it's more about your own preferences and what you value in music, then it is anything else. There's certainly no 'blocks' happening from where I'm sitting. You can dislike something on first-listen but still have an intense interest or are intrigued by it in some way that you revisit it and find that it was music that simply doesn't give it's secrets so easily.

Why is "change in preferences" a more comfortable concept to you than "changes in blocks"? Sometimes your preferences change fast, sometimes they change slowly and sometimes they don't change at all. Why? Because sometimes there are blocks preventing/slowing down the change. As I said, some blocks are beneficial. I am happy for the block in my mind that prevents me becoming a racist and I am certainly lucky for having a block that prevents me becoming religious!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 06, 2017, 01:52:01 PM
I did in fact explain exactly what I thought was wrong with your theory. Your response was just to assert everything again.

Seriously. After I talked about having both a positive factor and a negative factor, all you did was go line by line and say again "I prefer my theory where there's just a negative factor and an absence of a negative factor".

And then you tell us it's something you made up on the spot, AND criticise us for not immediately going along with your whim?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 06, 2017, 06:33:43 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 09:51:53 AM
I came up with this neural block theory in about 10 seconds while writing about it. I am a system thinker and these ideas are natural for me. The theory of neural blocks is far from perfect, but it is a starting point in explaining why people have different tastes and why our taste evolves at varying speed. Anyone is free to express counter-claims. That's how theories get better. "Doesn't make sense" isn't constructive critisism. You need to explain why it does not make sense so we can make corrections to the theory. You people have blocks against my theory about blocks!  ;D

Why evaluate the music but not your own values and standards? Shouldn't we evaluate EVERYTHING? Verdi is perhaps not for me, but is it the music or my neural blocks or both? I am on thin ice if I ONLY evaluate Verdi. Why should I fear finding out about the blocks? It's only human to have them.

Why is "change in preferences" a more comfortable concept to you than "changes in blocks"? Sometimes your preferences change fast, sometimes they change slowly and sometimes they don't change at all. Why? Because sometimes there are blocks preventing/slowing down the change. As I said, some blocks are beneficial. I am happy for the block in my mind that prevents me becoming a racist and I am certainly lucky for having a block that prevents me becoming religious!

I don't have to explain to you why your theory doesn't make any sense to me. That's irrelevant and has absolutely NOTHING to do with Nielsen. My advice is to keep these kinds of things to yourself. Now, back to Nielsen!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 12:51:31 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 06, 2017, 01:52:01 PM
I did in fact explain exactly what I thought was wrong with your theory. Your response was just to assert everything again.

Seriously. After I talked about having both a positive factor and a negative factor, all you did was go line by line and say again "I prefer my theory where there's just a negative factor and an absence of a negative factor".

And then you tell us it's something you made up on the spot, AND criticise us for not immediately going along with your whim?
Most (80 % maybe) block are negative and the rest are positive. There is no need to accept my theories immediately, but there's also no need to shoot them down immediately either.

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2017, 06:33:43 PM
I don't have to explain to you why your theory doesn't make any sense to me. That's irrelevant and has absolutely NOTHING to do with Nielsen. My advice is to keep these kinds of things to yourself. Now, back to Nielsen!

So why do you take my theory so heavily? Does not make any sense? Well, just ignore it then. I am trying to explain why people like different stuff (why not all people like Nielsen for example) and you ask me to keep it to myself? I can leave the whole board if people don't want me here.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 07, 2017, 01:17:26 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 06, 2017, 09:51:53 AM
I came up with this neural block theory in about 10 seconds while writing about it. I am a system thinker and these ideas are natural for me. The theory of neural blocks is far from perfect, but it is a starting point in explaining why people have different tastes and why our taste evolves at varying speed.

Stepping in I would like to add, that there is no trace of explanation in your theory. At best it represents a modest description and at worst some circular argument (listener x does not like composer y, so the listener has got some neural block, and this block is the cause, why he does not like composer y).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 02:08:05 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 07, 2017, 01:17:26 AM
Stepping in I would like to add, that there is no trace of explanation in your theory. At best it represents a modest description and at worst some circular argument (listener x does not like composer y, so the listener has got some neural block, and this block is the cause, why he does not like composer y).

There's nothing circular in my logic:

(1) The world is extremely complex.
(2) We have a tendence of trying to make some sense of the world, especially when have fears, our life isn't in order etc.
(3) Neural blocks simplify the way we understand the world *. Neural blocks are human, part of who we are. There is no need to be ashamed of them. Everyone has them.
(4) We use these blocks without realising it to get a feeling of understanding the complex world.
(5) Most blocks are "negative" and causes us difficulties of understanding some things correctly. Some blocks are "positive" and protect us from bad ideologies.

Now, where exactly is the circular part in this logic and where doesn't my logic (1) ---> (5) hold water?

* Kind of the same way a labyrinth can be simplified by blocking some sections of it. Blocks allow quicker, but also simpler thought prosesses, a quicker way out of the labyrinth.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Jo498 on May 07, 2017, 02:40:35 AM
The problem is that there are all kinds of ways one could continue from your (2) You give no reason why a model with "neural blocks" should be a good explanatory continuation from (2). Furthermore, (4) does not seem to be relevant for the issue at hand. If one does not appreciate Sibelius this does not at all help to get a "feeling of understanding the complex world". How does it further my understanding or reduce complexity in a helpful way if I realise that I do not much care for the music of Sibelius?

Finally, (5) seems largely unrelated to the rest. Why are most blocks negative? You also seem to use negative/positive in a different sense than earlier. Earlier *any* block was helpful to reduce complexity and further understanding. Now in (5) "negative" actually impedes "correct understanding". And "positive" now has nothing to do anymore with appreciating e.g. Nielsen's music but "protects us from bad ideologies" (not bad music?). Where do the bad ideologies appear from suddenly?


Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 07, 2017, 02:47:30 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 12:51:31 AM
There is no need to accept my theories immediately, but there's also no need to shoot them down immediately either.

There's a school of thought on the internet that says that people oughtn't shoot down the ideas of others. This is stupid because it turns into "first person to open their mouth wins", and it's also exactly how fake news gets its foothold. So sorry, but if I think your ideas warrant being shot down, I will take aim. If you start theorising that Maurice Ravel was a disguised lizard alien from a planet orbiting the star Procyon, I will feel totally justified in shooting it down immediately with extreme prejudice.

What I actually did this instance is point out what your theory was lacking, to which you've simply failed to respond. You have given no indication at all why anyone should actually LIKE a piece of music. At all. All you've done is describe an idea about an absence of dislike. A removal of a block. And hey presto, somehow this doesn't just remove negative responses, it creates positive ones in their place.

You've given no explanation at all about what there might be in a piece of music that someone would appreciate and respond to.

It's a bit like suggesting that people aren't sexually attracted to particular looks/figures/genders, they're just somehow "blocked" from finding everyone sexy. Or that I don't actually have flavours I particular enjoy, it's just that I'm "blocked" from all the others. You've offered a theory that simply denies the existence of something that generates a positive response.

Instead of identifying the things that the various kinds of music I like have in common, you would have me saying that I simply listen to music that lacks the things I dislike. I'm reminded of Mr Burns in the Simpsons saying about art: "I know what I hate, and I don't hate this".
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 07, 2017, 03:23:02 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 02:08:05 AM
Now, where exactly is the circular part in this logic ...?

All parts in a circle take part in the circle.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 05:39:13 AM
Wow, here's a thought: let's get back to talking about Nielsen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 06:16:47 AM
The best I can remember this is a good article on Nielsen's Inextinguishable:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/mar/04/symphony-guide-nielsen-fourth-tom-service
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 07, 2017, 07:14:57 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 06:16:47 AM
The best I can remember this is a good article on Nielsen's Inextinguishable:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/mar/04/symphony-guide-nielsen-fourth-tom-service

That entire symphony series from The Guardian is a nice read.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 07:52:50 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 07, 2017, 07:14:57 AM
That entire symphony series from The Guardian is a nice read.

I'll have to revisit it, Greg.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 07:54:14 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on May 07, 2017, 02:40:35 AM
The problem is that there are all kinds of ways one could continue from your (2). You give no reason why a model with "neural blocks" should be a good explanatory continuation from (2).

What is your way?

My theory comes from thinking about neural networks. Someday we will have an artificial intelligence based on self-learning neural network capable of enjoying music the way we do. Such A.I. will appreciate all music worth appreciation as long as it doesn't have neural blocks. So, if we make the A.I. fear or make it confused giving it contradicting information it might stop liking Sibelius and Elton John because it might generate neural blocks. In a way HAL 9000 developped neural blocks in 2001 because it was given contradictory tasks.

We are biological HAL 9000 computers ourself! We live in a confusing and contradictory reality. So we develop neural blocks. Most of us don't become murderers, but we might hate the music of Elton John. So that's why I take the steps I do from (2).

Quote from: Jo498 on May 07, 2017, 02:40:35 AMFurthermore, (4) does not seem to be relevant for the issue at hand. If one does not appreciate Sibelius this does not at all help to get a "feeling of understanding the complex world". How does it further my understanding or reduce complexity in a helpful way if I realise that I do not much care for the music of Sibelius?

I think our conseptions of the world is related to how we respond to music. Our music taste is not an isolated "system" within us. It affects our "other" mind and vice versa.

People who don't care about Sibelius probably suffer from blocks preventing them appreciating the music. People who do admire Sibelius may also have blocks preventing them to realise (relative?) weaknesses in the music. The "truth" is not clear because we all are a bit blind. We end up disagreeing about the music of Sibelius. A "clear minded" artificial intelligence without blocks might be able to tell the truth.

Quote from: Jo498 on May 07, 2017, 02:40:35 AMFinally, (5) seems largely unrelated to the rest. Why are most blocks negative? You also seem to use negative/positive in a different sense than earlier. Earlier *any* block was helpful to reduce complexity and further understanding. Now in (5) "negative" actually impedes "correct understanding". And "positive" now has nothing to do anymore with appreciating e.g. Nielsen's music but "protects us from bad ideologies" (not bad music?). Where do the bad ideologies appear from suddenly?

Blocks are interferences in the neural network and therefor negative by nature. Too many blocks is even worse, because blocks start of jam each other (the cause of insanity?) and the neural network becomes badly dysfunctional. A good selection of some blocks is good, because it makes possible to have a sense of undestanding of the world enough, but the blocks don't jam each other and can be changed if needed.

Blocks reduce complexity in our mind, but the cost is false conclusions! Lack of blocks allows more correct conclusions, but the cost is that the world may look a scary complex place and we lose the feel of understanding it *. So there is a fine balance, enough blocks but not too many.

Racism is an example of "bad ideology", but so is the thought that classical music is snobism or that Sibelius is far superior to Nielsen. Bad ideologies are everywhere, fortunately only some of them are really harmful to the humankind.

Bad ideologies are usually by-products of human activity in many areas. Maybe the music of Sibelius has always been marketed better than music of Nielsen? A little advantage for Sibelius has grown bigger due to positive feedback mechanism, something the first promoters of Sibelius never intented. 

* A well-known paradox: The more you know and understand, the more you realise how little you know and understand.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 07:55:57 AM
71 dB if you don't want to discuss Nielsen's music then get out of this thread! >:(
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 08:00:15 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 07:55:57 AM
71 dB if you don't want to discuss Nielsen's music then get out of this thread! >:(
Of course I want to discuss. At the moment I don't have much to say, but When I get the Blomstedt set...  ;)

Oh, revisited the choral works disc after so many years and it was very nice. I don't know why I listen to Nielsen so little/rarely...  ::)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 08:08:53 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 08:00:15 AM
Of course I want to discuss. At the moment I don't have much to say, but When I get the Blomstedt set...  ;)

Oh, revisited the choral works disc after so many years and it was very nice. I don't know why I listen to Nielsen so little/rarely...  ::)

Of course, I can't discuss Blomstedt's Sinfonia espansiva with you as I don't like it, but I can discuss the performances of Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2. The Four Temperaments, in particular, gets a splendid reading from him. Hopefully, you can find the other set soon as it contains the best performances of his cycle IMHO and you also get the Aladdin Suite, an excerpt from Maskarade, Little Suite for Strings, and Hymnus amoris (this particular performance I enjoy more than Segerstam's).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 08:17:55 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 06:16:47 AM
The best I can remember this is a good article on Nielsen's Inextinguishable:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/mar/04/symphony-guide-nielsen-fourth-tom-service

It's ok, nothing really revelatory, you can certainly get most of that info in a good liner note from any number of recordings.

Also the recommended recordings are a joke. I would take them more seriously if 3 of the 5 doesn't involve some form of British orchestra/conductor. Karajan and Blomstedt are pretty good though.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 08:26:23 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 08:17:55 AM
It's ok, nothing really revelatory, you can certainly get most of that info in a good liner note from any number of recordings.

Also the recommended recordings are a joke. I would take them more seriously if 3 of the 5 doesn't involve some form of British orchestra/conductor. Karajan and Blomstedt are pretty good though.

Yes, their British bias as always is eyebrow raising. I didn't bother looking at their recommended recordings, because, in most cases, I usually don't agree.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: North Star on May 07, 2017, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 08:17:55 AM
It's ok, nothing really revelatory, you can certainly get most of that info in a good liner note from any number of recordings.

Also the recommended recordings are a joke. I would take them more seriously if 3 of the 5 doesn't involve some form of British orchestra/conductor. Karajan and Blomstedt are pretty good though.
Granted, there are some other recordings with no British conductor or orchestra involved (Gilbert & NYPO, Oramo (although he is the chief conductor of the BBC Symphony) & Stockholm, Kuchar & Janacek Philharmonic Orchestra, Schonwandt, Dudamel & Gothenburg, Neeme Järvi & Gothenburg, Berglund & Royal Danish, Rozhdestvensky & Stockholm, Salonen (principal of the Philharmonia) & Swedish RSO) - which of the 9 7 are better than the Schmidt, Vänskä & Davis recordings? It would have to be a fair few before you'd be justified in saying that the recommendations are a joke. Not that I don't agree that British classical music media often has a bias for British musicians.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 10:10:00 AM
Quote from: North Star on May 07, 2017, 09:12:51 AM
Granted, there are some other recordings with no British conductor or orchestra involved (Gilbert & NYPO, Oramo (although he is the chief conductor of the BBC Symphony) & Stockholm, Kuchar & Janacek Philharmonic Orchestra, Schonwandt, Dudamel & Gothenburg, Neeme Järvi & Gothenburg, Berglund & Royal Danish, Rozhdestvensky & Stockholm, Salonen (principal of the Philharmonia) & Swedish RSO) - which of the 9 7 are better than the Schmidt, Vänskä & Davis recordings? It would have to be a fair few before you'd be justified in saying that the recommendations are a joke. Not that I don't agree that British classical music media often has a bias for British musicians.
You are forgetting Lenny/NYPO and Martinon/CSO, 2 classics that go to the top of the heap in any list. To not even acknowledge either one of those borders on the criminal. If Schmidt makes top 5 where do those 2 rank?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: North Star on May 07, 2017, 10:22:53 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 10:10:00 AM
You are forgetting Lenny/NYPO and Martinon/CSO, 2 classics that go to the top of the heap in any list. To not even acknowledge either one of those borders on the criminal. If Schmidt makes top 5 where do those 2 rank?
And their availability, particularly outside box sets, in 2014?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: North Star on May 07, 2017, 10:22:53 AM
And their availability, particularly outside box sets, in 2014?
Don't know, but I have these versions:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41vLqOpsOWL._SS500.jpg)
(it says it is from 2006)

and this:
[asin]B0000027N5[/asin]
probably OOP as of 2014 but you don't have to look hard to find a cheap copy somewhere. Point is to not even acknowledge these and pretend that they don't exist is just wrong.

Look the Schmidt isn't a bad recording, I just don't think it is a top recommendation. For ANOTHER British band/conductor combo Alexander Gibson and the SNO is better, but wait those are Scottish so that would be a no no.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 12:50:33 PM
PerfectWagnerite, I'm not sure why you're getting so bent out of shape about an online magazine's recommendation choices? I mean if you're so distraught about it, why don't you email The Guardian and tell them how you feel and spare us of the ranting?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 12:50:33 PM
I mean if you're so distraught about it, why don't you email The Guardian
Because it takes too much effort.


Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 12:50:33 PM
spare us of the ranting?
Ok.
But only because I like you guys enough so that I do not wish to argue with you.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 07, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
I studied neuroscience at university, and 71dB doesn't know a damn thing about neural networks.

Also, returned to the 6th symphony last night, and I'd forgotten just HOW weird it is. In the first movement I hear Shostakovich's 15th (which I know is chronologically backwards), but after that it goes into completely its own territory. I like it, but I wouldn't claim to understand it.

As much as anything it's the textures. They often don't sound orchestral, more like a somewhat disorganised military band has wandered in from somewhere.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 07, 2017, 01:25:54 PM


Quote from: ørfeo on May 07, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
As much as anything it's the textures. They often don't sound orchestral, more like a somewhat disorganised military band has wandered in from somewhere.

In a way, it's a cousin to Agon (which is likewise chronologically reversed): a piece for orchestra, which is in its greater part a succession of specific chamber-music textures.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 07, 2017, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 07, 2017, 01:25:54 PM

In a way, it's a cousin to Agon (which is likewise chronologically reversed): a piece for orchestra, which is in its greater part a succession of specific chamber-music textures.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Okay, now I'm going to have pull out my copy of Agon, which I know I liked but I'm not really that familiar with yet (haven't yet returned to it since my initial listens after purchase).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 01:49:17 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 07, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
I studied neuroscience at university, and 71dB doesn't know a damn thing about neural networks.

Also, returned to the 6th symphony last night, and I'd forgotten just HOW weird it is. In the first movement I hear Shostakovich's 15th (which I know is chronologically backwards), but after that it goes into completely its own territory. I like it, but I wouldn't claim to understand it.

As much as anything it's the textures. They often don't sound orchestral, more like a somewhat disorganised military band has wandered in from somewhere.

Interesting take on the 6th, orfeo. As for Karl's post, now I just might have to program Nielsen's 6th with Stravinsky's Agon tonight.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 01:50:07 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 07, 2017, 01:02:43 PM
Because it takes too much effort.

Ok.
But only because I like you guys enough so that I do not wish to argue with you.

How about this, Wagnerite, why don't you compile a list of recommendations for each of Nielsen's symphonies?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 01:55:01 PM
I'll start:

Symphony No. 1 - Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO, Gilbert/New York Phil.
Symphony No. 2, "The Four Temperaments" - Blomstedt/SFSO, Chung/Gothenburg SO
Symphony No. 3, "Sinfonia espansiva" - Bernstein/Royal Danish Orch., Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO
Symphony No. 4, "The Inextinguishable" - Blomstedt/SFSO, Gilbert/New York Phil.
Symphony No. 5 - Bernstein/New York Phil.
Symphony No. 6 - Oramo/Royal Stockholm PO
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 07, 2017, 06:47:45 PM
1st - don't have a favorite  :(
2nd - Gilbert/NYP
3rd - Chung/Gothenburg
4th - Blomstedt/SFS
5th - Rozhdestvensky/Royal Stockholm
6th - Davis/LSO

I think Nielson has a great showing in the recorded symphonies. All the groups I listed above excel in their respective cycles.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2017, 06:59:36 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 07, 2017, 06:47:45 PM
1st - don't have a favorite  :(
2nd - Gilbert/NYP
3rd - Chung/Gothenburg
4th - Blomstedt/SFS
5th - Rozhdestvensky/Royal Stockholm
6th - Davis/LSO

I think Nielsen has a great showing in the recorded symphonies. All the groups I listed above excel in their respective cycles.

I recall Gilbert's Four Temperaments being excellent. In fact, he's even spoke about it rather briefly:

https://www.youtube.com/v/Oj8C2Bc8Ez8
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 11:26:10 PM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 07, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
I studied neuroscience at university, and 71dB doesn't know a damn thing about neural networks.

I'm done with this hostility. I am not an expert on neural networks (how many of us are?) but they were mentioned briefly in my university studies. In fact neural networks (self-organizing maps) where developped by Teuvo Kohonen in the same university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuvo_Kohonen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuvo_Kohonen)

I think I'll keep away from GMG because I don't like being here at the moment. This is not a friendly place. Sorry.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on May 08, 2017, 12:04:40 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 11:26:10 PM
I'm done with this hostility. I am not an expert on neural networks (how many of us are?) but they were mentioned briefly in my university studies. In fact neural networks (self-organizing maps) where developped by Teuvo Kohonen in the same university.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuvo_Kohonen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teuvo_Kohonen)

I think I'll keep away from GMG because I don't like being here at the moment. This is not a friendly place. Sorry.

It was a discussion that somehow got a bit out of hand, I am sorry to hear this & enjoy that you are contributing here, hope you´ll stay anyway.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on May 08, 2017, 12:07:15 AM
1: (no definite favourite)
2: Gould, Chung- a fine, contrasting pair
3: Bernstein, Chung - ditto
4: (no definite favourite). Mena is very good, but not on CD or LP. Maybe Blomstedt / decca. Martinon interesting, but a bit too quick at times. Not Karajan.
5: Bernstein rules ...
6: (no definite favourite)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 08, 2017, 06:00:14 AM
I can't offer favourites, properly knowing one version of each...

The Da Capo box (Schønwandt plus Dausgaard for other orchestral works) has some interesting little essays about each symphony. Listening to the 6th again having just read the relevant essay (which includes a pretty detailed quote about the Humoreske movement), I think the key to the symphony is that there's something deliberately childlike about much of it. The way Nielsen describes it, with instruments needing to be "woken up", sounds almost like a collection of toys.

Certainly it feels like it's making more sense to me on this listen with that vibe in mind. The end of the 3rd movement, which I just heard, feels like a lullaby.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2017, 06:43:10 AM
Quote from: Turner on May 08, 2017, 12:07:15 AM
1: (no definite favourite)
2: Gould, Chung- a fine, contrasting pair
3: Bernstein, Chung - ditto
4: (no definite favourite). Mela is very good, but not on CD or LP. Maybe Blomstedt / decca. Martinon interesting, but a bit too quick at times. Not Karajan.
5: Bernstein rules ...
6: (no definite favourite)

Don't you mean (Zubin) Mehta? Who is Mela? And what do you mean by not on CD or LP?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 08, 2017, 07:26:36 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2017, 11:26:10 PM
I think I'll keep away from GMG because I don't like being here at the moment. This is not a friendly place. Sorry.

That is a pity, I think. Even if I find your neural block theory a bit far out, you have so much else to contribute with, which I would miss. And the majority of posters here are essentially friendly people.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on May 08, 2017, 08:00:22 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2017, 06:43:10 AM
Don't you mean (Zubin) Mehta? Who is Mela? And what do you mean by not on CD or LP?

Sorry I should have written Mena, a new name to me. Not Mehta!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2017, 08:04:36 AM
Quote from: Turner on May 08, 2017, 08:00:22 AM
Sorry I should have written Mena, a new name to me. Not Mehta!

Ah okay. Of course, Mehta's Inextinguishable isn't bad either. ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2017, 08:08:07 AM
Quote from: ørfeo on May 08, 2017, 06:00:14 AM
I can't offer favourites, properly knowing one version of each...

The Da Capo box (Schønwandt plus Dausgaard for other orchestral works) has some interesting little essays about each symphony. Listening to the 6th again having just read the relevant essay (which includes a pretty detailed quote about the Humoreske movement), I think the key to the symphony is that there's something deliberately childlike about much of it. The way Nielsen describes it, with instruments needing to be "woken up", sounds almost like a collection of toys.

Certainly it feels like it's making more sense to me on this listen with that vibe in mind. The end of the 3rd movement, which I just heard, feels like a lullaby.

Good to hear you're making progress on the Sinfonia semplice. Such a magical work.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 08:48:31 AM
1 - Oramo, Kuchar, Previn
2 - Kuchar, Blomstedt
3 - Kuchar (incomparable brass detail), Bernstein, Schmidt, Rozhdestvensky, Oramo
4 - Salonen, Schmidt, Martinon
5 - Bernstein
6 - Ormandy, Blomstedt, Schmidt
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 08, 2017, 09:00:17 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 08, 2017, 07:26:36 AM
That is a pity, I think. Even if I find your neural block theory a bit far out, you have so much else to contribute with, which I would miss. And the majority of posters here are essentially friendly people.

Thanks for the friendly worlds. I try to calm down. I want to be friedly too. Far out theories are "my thing" so I product them almost without realising it. I never claimed my theory to be perfect and correct. It is a "starting point" to be rejected/corrected if better theories emerge. Einstein's ideas of relativity were pretty "far out" before people realised Einstein was actually right. Then again, Einstein was a genius and I am not.  :D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2017, 10:05:25 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 08:48:31 AM
1 - Oramo, Kuchar, Previn
2 - Kuchar, Blomstedt
3 - Kuchar (incomparable brass detail), Bernstein, Schmidt, Rozhdestvensky, Oramo
4 - Salonen, Schmidt, Martinon
5 - Bernstein
6 - Ormandy, Blomstedt, Schmidt

Interesting list. I'll have to revisit Kuchar's cycle.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 08, 2017, 11:35:01 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 08:48:31 AM
1 - Oramo, Kuchar, Previn
2 - Kuchar, Blomstedt
3 - Kuchar (incomparable brass detail), Bernstein, Schmidt, Rozhdestvensky, Oramo
4 - Salonen, Schmidt, Martinon
5 - Bernstein
6 - Ormandy, Blomstedt, Schmidt

No Gilbert?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2017, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 08, 2017, 11:35:01 AM
No Gilbert?

Sarge isn't a fan of Gilbert's Nielsen cycle IIRC. No worries, I LOVE Gilbert's cycle and consider it, next to Oramo's, the most consistent I've heard.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 12:19:30 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 08, 2017, 11:35:01 AM
No Gilbert?

His Espansiva was a major disappointment (sonically, anyway) so I didn't bother to collect the rest of his cycle. I should give his Second another chance, though.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: kishnevi on May 08, 2017, 12:28:32 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 12:19:30 PM
His Espansiva was a major disappointment (sonically, anyway) so I didn't bother to collect the rest of his cycle. I should give his Second another chance, though.

Sarge

I too found Gilbert's symphonies to be lacking in...something. rather blah result.
BUT
The concertos CD which finished off his cycle is one of the best I have heard.
[asin]B00WF5R808[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 08, 2017, 12:50:25 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 12:19:30 PM
His Espansiva was a major disappointment (sonically, anyway) so I didn't bother to collect the rest of his cycle. I should give his Second another chance, though.

Sarge

Overall the cycle is good, to me at least, but I think the 2nd is the strength of the cycle. The third movement Andante malincolico is great, and the tempo for the finale is perfect, with the Horns ripping through their lines! Give it a try, Sarge.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 08, 2017, 12:50:25 PM
Overall the cycle is good, to me at least, but I think the 2nd is the strength of the cycle. The third movement Andante malincolico is great, and the tempo for the finale is perfect, with the Horns ripping through their lines! Give it a try, Sarge.

I will.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on May 08, 2017, 12:28:32 PM
The concertos CD which finished off his cycle is one of the best I have heard.

I'll give that a try too.

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2017, 01:37:29 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on May 08, 2017, 12:28:32 PM
I too found Gilbert's symphonies to be lacking in...something. rather blah result.
BUT
The concertos CD which finished off his cycle is one of the best I have heard.
[asin]B00WF5R808[/asin]

That's interesting as this is the way I feel about almost every Nielsen cycle I've heard: Salonen, Rozhdestvensky, Thomson, both Järvi's, Schønwandt, Schmidt, and Blomstedt's first cycle on EMI. The only cycle that I've heard that I don't remember is Kuchar's on Brilliant Classics. I should remedy this rather soon. If Bernstein recorded the 1st and 6th, I'd be calling his my reference cycle I'd imagine.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on May 09, 2017, 01:53:37 AM
1 - Oramo
2 - Schønwandt
3 - Chung, Bernstein
4 - Blomstedt
5 - Blomstedt, Bernstein, Kondrashin
6 - Oramo, Schønwandt
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 10, 2017, 05:59:25 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2017, 08:48:31 AM
1 - Oramo, Kuchar, Previn
2 - Kuchar, Blomstedt
3 - Kuchar (incomparable brass detail), Bernstein, Schmidt, Rozhdestvensky, Oramo
4 - Salonen, Schmidt, Martinon
5 - Bernstein
6 - Ormandy, Blomstedt, Schmidt

Oh dear, seems like I have to hear this Kuchar...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 02:27:23 AM
The Blomstedt twofer arrived today. I am now listening to symphony 1. The recorded sound is not perhaps as good as on Leaper's cycle (in fact without crossfeeding it is abysmally bad as the spatial distortion is HUGE!). If there are any artistical advantages over Naxos, I need to figure them out with time. Blomstedt sounds calmer and more distant than Leaper. Blomstedt's Nielsen sounds more Brahmsian and less "Nordic".

These are my initial impressions and again I might have made a mistake believing someone on GMG. I should ALWAYS sample CDs myself before buying. This distance-thing takes so much away of the energy of the music.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 02:56:20 AM
Now symphony 2. Is this Nielsen? Sounds like Brahms with some Nielsenian decorations! I needed this to come to my senses? WTF? People, come to your senses yourself and get Leaper. At least It SOUNDS like Nielsen should. Scandinavian and Nordic.

Perhaps the later symphonies sound less Brahmsian on Blomstedt's hands?  :-\

The orchestra sounds so distant! They are somewhere 50 meters away! Thanks to the reverberation we can hear something.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 12, 2017, 03:39:18 AM
I am enjoying the fact that Blomstedt is inspiring such a passionate response, Poju   8)  I remember none of these problems with the Blomstedt set, so I need to give them a fresh spin.  You already know that I have not yet heard the Leaper, so I cannot speak to the comparison.  (I have ordered the Leaper, but delivery is looking like late May.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 03:43:21 AM
The third. Now Blomsdedt is entering the sound of Nielsen at last! This is too modern music to be made sound Brahms. Mayde the 4-6 set is much better for this reason and of course the seller canceled the wrong set! However, I want to hear the another set on Spotify before getting it.

Symphonies 1-2 are disappointing at Blomdstedt's hands, but the third sounds at least decent. Even the orchestra sounds to be nearer or am I just imagining it?

I could do as I have: Live with Leaper. That has worked well for me. I could also check out Kuchar in case it is a revelation. Anyway, Nielsen's symphonies became a problem for me... ...I should have kept my mind and just stick with the cycle I have and that's it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 12, 2017, 03:49:03 AM
Well, you know, nothing has taken away the cycle you've got.  And perhaps on this initial hearing of the Blomstedt, all the differences seem exaggerated.  With the really great music, there is seldom only one way to do it.

So come back to it after an interval.  Maybe the second time, it won't seem so unendurable   8)

I am glad that the Espansiva struck you better.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 03:54:19 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 12, 2017, 03:39:18 AM
I am enjoying the fact that Blomstedt is inspiring such a passionate response, Poju   8)  I remember none of these problems with the Blomstedt set, so I need to give them a fresh spin.  You already know that I have not yet heard the Leaper, so I cannot speak to the comparison.  (I have ordered the Leaper, but delivery is looking like late May.)

My apologies if you end up not liking Leaper (as we all have our preferences) and wasted your money on them (cheap discs yes, but money nevertheless that could have been invested on other things). Of course, there are chances you are pleasantly surprised by Leaper. These things re near-impossible to predict.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 12, 2017, 03:49:03 AM
Well, you know, nothing has taken away the cycle you've got.  And perhaps on this initial hearing of the Blomstedt, all the differences seem exaggerated.  With the really great music, there is seldom only one way to do it.

So come back to it after an interval.  Maybe the second time, it won't seem so unendurable   8)

I am glad that the Espansiva struck you better.

Yes, these are my initial reactions and may change a lot with time. Now listening to Maskarade Overture and it sounds pretty good.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Florestan on May 12, 2017, 03:55:23 AM
I've started exploring this set:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/713bxDAK1OL._SX355_.jpg)

CD 1-4 Symphonies Nos. 1-6 - Aladdin Suite - Symphonic Rhapsody - Overture
"Helios" - Cupid and the Poet: Orchestral Suite - Paraphase on "Nearer, my God, to Thee"
Eva Hess-Thaysen (soprano), Jan Lund (tenor), Nicholas Cox (clarinet), Kevin Price
(trombone), Graham Johns (side drum), Jonathan Aasgaard (cello), Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1999-2001, 2003)

CD 5 Flute Concerto - Pan and Syrinx - Works for String Orchestra
Rune Most (flute), The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (2001, 2005)

CD 6 Violin Concerto - Romance for Violin and Orchestra - Violin Sonata No. 1
Malcolm Stewart (violin), Johannes Søe Hansen (violin), Frank Jarlsfelt (piano),
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1994, 2003)

CD 7 Clarinet Concerto - Wind Quintet - Serenata in vano
John Kruse (clarinet), Cecile Boiffin (side drum), Scandinavian Chamber Players,
The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Douglas Bostock (1996)

CD 8+9 Five Piano Pieces - Symphonic Suite - Humoresque Bagatelles - Festive
Prelude - Drømmen om "Glade Jul" (The Dream of "Silent Night") - Chaconne - Theme
With Variations - Suite - Three Piano Pieces - Piano Music for Children and Adults
Anne Øland (piano) (1992-1993)

CD 10 Music Set to Five Poems by J. P. Jacobsen - Six Songs Set to Texts by Ludvig
Holstein and other lieder
Ulrik Cold (bass), Johannes Mikkelsen (piano) (1980, 1982)

I don't know how good it is or how it does compare wirth other performances, and frankly I don't even care. I simply love some first listens such as the Flute Concerto, the Violin Concerto, the Violin Sonata No. 1 and the Wind Quintet (which is playing right now). This is certainly the beginning of a beautiful friendship.  8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 12, 2017, 03:56:10 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 03:54:19 AM
My apologies if you end up not liking Leaper (as we all have our preferences) and wasted your money on them (cheap discs yes, but money nevertheless that could have been invested on other things). Of course, there are chances you are pleasantly surprised by Leaper. These things re near-impossible to predict.

Very true;  We cannot tell with any accuracy how the other chap's ears will hear it!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 12, 2017, 03:57:09 AM
Quote from: Florestan on May 12, 2017, 03:55:23 AM
I've started exploring this set:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/713bxDAK1OL._SX355_.jpg)

CD 1-4 Symphonies Nos. 1-6 - Aladdin Suite - Symphonic Rhapsody - Overture
"Helios" - Cupid and the Poet: Orchestral Suite - Paraphase on "Nearer, my God, to Thee"
Eva Hess-Thaysen (soprano), Jan Lund (tenor), Nicholas Cox (clarinet), Kevin Price
(trombone), Graham Johns (side drum), Jonathan Aasgaard (cello), Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1999-2001, 2003)

CD 5 Flute Concerto - Pan and Syrinx - Works for String Orchestra
Rune Most (flute), The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (2001, 2005)

CD 6 Violin Concerto - Romance for Violin and Orchestra - Violin Sonata No. 1
Malcolm Stewart (violin), Johannes Søe Hansen (violin), Frank Jarlsfelt (piano),
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1994, 2003)

CD 7 Clarinet Concerto - Wind Quintet - Serenata in vano
John Kruse (clarinet), Cecile Boiffin (side drum), Scandinavian Chamber Players,
The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Douglas Bostock (1996)

CD 8+9 Five Piano Pieces - Symphonic Suite - Humoresque Bagatelles - Festive
Prelude - Drømmen om "Glade Jul" (The Dream of "Silent Night") - Chaconne - Theme
With Variations - Suite - Three Piano Pieces - Piano Music for Children and Adults
Anne Øland (piano) (1992-1993)

CD 10 Music Set to Five Poems by J. P. Jacobsen - Six Songs Set to Texts by Ludvig
Holstein and other lieder
Ulrik Cold (bass), Johannes Mikkelsen (piano) (1980, 1982)

I don't know how good it is or how it does compare wirth other performances, and frankly I don't even care. I simply love some first listens such as the Flute Concerto, the Violin Concerto, the Violin Sonata No. 1 and the Wind Quintet (which is playing right now). This is certainly the beginning of a beautiful friendship.  8)

The best of that box (and practically none of it is bad) is mighty fine, indeed!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on May 12, 2017, 04:15:03 AM
To be fair I also am not sure Blomstedt is at his strongest in Nos. 1 and 2—1 is driven too hard, 2 is over-romanticised, to my ears. 4, 5 and 6 are where I like him the most. YMMV.

I didn't know Leaper was a thing. I am listening to his No. 1 on Spotify at the moment and it is bringing Schønwandt to mind for some reason but I can't put into words why. Maybe that somewhat classicised interpretation or maybe just because the volume needs to be turned up a lot. I feel like I should be way more articulate about this considering the number of Nielsen cycles I have heard, but apparently not.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 04:16:34 AM
Wow! Aladdin Suite is absolutely fantastic on this twofer!!  :o  :o  :o Oh my god how good it is!! I did not buy this for nothing after all! I bought it for Alladin Suite! I am in complete extasy! I have this suite on Naxos, but it doesn't work for me. This Does! Blomstedt is completely one with this work! Just unbelievevable!  ???
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: amw on May 12, 2017, 04:19:10 AM
Quote from: amw on May 09, 2017, 01:53:37 AM
1 - Oramo
2 - Schønwandt
3 - Chung, Bernstein
4 - Blomstedt, Menuhin
5 - Blomstedt, Bernstein, Kondrashin
6 - Oramo, Schønwandt
Of course I was gonna forget my favourite version of the 4th.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 12, 2017, 04:23:57 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 04:16:34 AM
Wow! Aladdin Suite is absolutely fantastic on this twofer!!  :o :o :o Oh my god how good it is!! I did not buy this for nothing after all! I bought it for Alladin Suite!

Ah, I forgot that the Aladdin Suite is on that two-fer; yes, outstanding!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 04:34:29 AM
As I've stated before, Blomstedt does well in the 1st, 2nd, and the 4th-6th. I recall no issues that 71 dB is having with the audio quality. Decca's audio is quite fine and detailed. And, thankfully, the performances are so fine that if someone does have an issue with the audio quality that this is easily overlooked (not that I've ever read such criticism about it anyway).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 12, 2017, 04:23:57 AM
Ah, I forgot that the Aladdin Suite is on that two-fer; yes, outstanding!

If the Alladin Suite is an indiction of how Blomstedt does with 4-6 then the other twofer is a must.
The sonics of this twofer is very uneven. Alladin Suite has got the most pleasant sound and disc one is much less convincing. I wonder how the other twofer is, but now I have a reason to sample it on Spotify, because it can be fantastic. Maybe the Brahmsian feel only plagues symphonies 1-2 on Blomstedt's hands? I hope so. At least Alladin Suite is too oriental to contain any kind of Brahmsian feel.

I am not a Brahms hater mind you. It's just that I want to hear Brahms only in Brahms and Nielsen in Nielsen.  ;)

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 04:34:29 AM
As I've stated before, Blomstedt does well in the 1st, 2nd, and the 4th-6th. I recall no issues that 71 dB is having with the audio quality. Decca's audio is quite fine and detailed. And, thankfully, the performances are so fine that if someone does have an issue with the audio quality that this is easily overlooked (not that I've ever read such criticism about it anyway).

Generally I am not a fan of "Decca sound". It doesn't feel balanced and it contains often a lot spatial distortion. Alladin Suite on the twofer has got a very nice sound, so even Decca gets it right from time to time. As for symphonies 1 and 2, I don't know if they should sound so "Brahmsian". A matter of taste I suppose?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 04:49:36 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 04:43:33 AM

Generally I am not a fan of "Decca sound". It doesn't feel balanced and it contains often a lot spatial distortion. Alladin Suite on the twofer has got a very nice sound, so even Decca gets it right from time to time. As for symphonies 1 and 2, I don't know if they should sound so "Brahmsian". A matter of taste I suppose?

If you're not a fan of the 'Decca sound,' why'd you buy the Blomstedt cycle? :-\
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 06:52:43 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 04:49:36 AM
If you're not a fan of the 'Decca sound,' why'd you buy the Blomstedt cycle? :-\

Because you recommended me to do so. Thanks to you I now have a fantastic performance of Aladdin Suite! So thanks!  ;)

There are labels that have consistently good sound. The few Mirare discs I have have got stunning sound. Labels such as BIS, CPO, Harmonia Mundi and Sony to mention some can be trusted on that field. Even Naxos has often very good sound these days (not the case 25 years ago). But Decca somehow has got weird ideas of good sound as if we were still living the 1960s.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 07:04:52 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 06:52:43 AM
Because you recommended me to do so. Thanks to you I now have a fantastic performance of Aladdin Suite! So thanks!  ;)

There are labels that have consistently good sound. The few Mirare discs I have have got stunning sound. Labels such as BIS, CPO, Harmonia Mundi and Sony to mention some can be trusted on that field. Even Naxos has often very good sound these days (not the case 25 years ago). But Decca somehow has got weird ideas of good sound as if we were still living the 1960s.

But I didn't know you were going to complain about the the audio quality, 71 dB. If I knew you weren't a fan of the 'Decca sound,' I wouldn't have bothered recommending the set to you.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Turner on May 12, 2017, 07:10:29 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 06:52:43 AM
Because you recommended me to do so. Thanks to you I now have a fantastic performance of Aladdin Suite! So thanks!  ;)

There are labels that have consistently good sound. The few Mirare discs I have have got stunning sound. Labels such as BIS, CPO, Harmonia Mundi and Sony to mention some can be trusted on that field. Even Naxos has often very good sound these days (not the case 25 years ago). But Decca somehow has got weird ideas of good sound as if we were still living the 1960s.

I thought so too, until I gott Krysa in Schnittke´s Violin Concertos 3+4 on BIS, DDD. The orchestra is incredibly distant.
Never experienced problems with Decca sound, except the otherwise fine Saint-Saens piano concertos with Roge/Dutoit, which in some early CD transfers (ad maybe only them) had a real lot of hiss.

As regards Nielsen, I generally prefer at least recordings from the stereo age, since the selection is quite plentiful, but they certainly don´t have to be DDD or the like.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 12, 2017, 07:13:44 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 06:52:43 AM
Because you recommended me to do so. Thanks to you I now have a fantastic performance of Aladdin Suite! So thanks!  ;)

There are labels that have consistently good sound. The few Mirare discs I have have got stunning sound. Labels such as BIS, CPO, Harmonia Mundi and Sony to mention some can be trusted on that field. Even Naxos has often very good sound these days (not the case 25 years ago). But Decca somehow has got weird ideas of good sound as if we were still living the 1960s.

Sound quality is a very subjective thing. I have gotten particular pleasure from the recordings that Decca made in San Francisco with Blomstedt, but that was some time ago when Decca still had its own engineering team. Nowadays classical recordings are very often outsourced to independent or semi-independent contractors and I find that the distinct engineering styles of the major labels are largely a thing of the past.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 08:06:56 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 07:04:52 AM
But I didn't know you were going to complain about the the audio quality, 71 dB. If I knew you weren't a fan of the 'Decca sound,' I wouldn't have bothered recommending the set to you.

Well, I have to admit I didn't fully realize it was Decca until I the disc arrived. I didn't think about the label. I must have seen the label logo on the cover, but bells didn't ring in my head. Also, even Decca has good sound sometimes so you never know. The sound of this twofer (as for the symphonies) isn't particularly bad, just not as good as Leaper. Decca sound works much better on loudspeakers than headphones (spatial distortion). Someday I may try this twofer with loudspeakers (most of my listening is with headphones these days). I wonder what you would recommend now that you know I am not a die hard fan of Decca sound. Kuchar?

Quote from: Turner on May 12, 2017, 07:10:29 AM
I thought so too, until I gott Krysa in Schnittke´s Violin Concertos 3+4 on BIS, DDD. The orchestra is incredibly distant.
Never experienced problems with Decca sound, except the otherwise fine Saint-Saens piano concertos with Roge/Dutoit, which in some early CD transfers (ad maybe only them) had a real lot of hiss.

All labels have their weak moments. I mean if 90 % of releases sound great and only 1 % bad, the label is pretty trustful. I don't know that BIS disc. I happen to have that Saint-Saëns twofer. Maybe I have a better later transfer, because I don't recall "lot of hiss" on it.

Quote from: Turner on May 12, 2017, 07:10:29 AMAs regards Nielsen, I generally prefer at least recordings from the stereo age, since the selection is quite plentiful, but they certainly don´t have to be DDD or the like.

Well, Blomstedt cycle is DDD so that's not the problem. The problem in my opinion is the microphone placement. Decca uses their on "Decca Tree" -system.

Quote from: Scarpia on May 12, 2017, 07:13:44 AM
Sound quality is a very subjective thing. I have gotten particular pleasure from the recordings that Decca made in San Francisco with Blomstedt, but that was some time ago when Decca still had its own engineering team. Nowadays classical recordings are very often outsourced to independent or semi-independent contractors and I find that the distinct engineering styles of the major labels are largely a thing of the past.

That is probably true and nowadays it's hard to tell a CPO disc apart form a Harmonia Mundi or Naxos disc based on sound.  :P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 12, 2017, 09:42:27 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 08:06:56 AM
Well, I have to admit I didn't fully realize it was Decca until I the disc arrived. I didn't think about the label. I must have seen the label logo on the cover, but bells didn't ring in my head. Also, even Decca has good sound sometimes so you never know. The sound of this twofer (as for the symphonies) isn't particularly bad, just not as good as Leaper. Decca sound works much better on loudspeakers than headphones (spatial distortion). Someday I may try this twofer with loudspeakers (most of my listening is with headphones these days). I wonder what you would recommend now that you know I am not a die hard fan of Decca sound. Kuchar?

In all fairness, those Decca recordings were made in an era when people were much more likely to listen to them on loudspeakers. Despite the fact that my circumstances now limit me almost entirely to headphone listening, I find loudspeakers are a much superior way to listen to recorded music, simply because you do not experience music exclusively through vibrations that enter your ear canal. Deep bass is experienced with your entire head, and even your entire body. Even with my high-end headphones which have extended bass response, the thud of a bass drum or the growl of the bass violins sounds much more profound when listened to on speakers than using headphones.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 10:32:03 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on May 12, 2017, 09:42:27 AM
In all fairness, those Decca recordings were made in an era when people were much more likely to listen to them on loudspeakers.
That is true. However, Decca's way is not the only way to record well for loudspeakers. OSS (optimum stereo sound) is the best recording method known to me to achieve sound that works well with both loudspeakers and headphones. ORTF is another headphone-friendly set-up, because in it the microphones are 17 cm apart from each other just like our ears.

Spatial distortion can be easily dealt with crossfeed, but things like colorization and balance between direct sound and reverberation are things we are pretty much forced to live with.


Quote from: Scarpia on May 12, 2017, 09:42:27 AMDespite the fact that my circumstances now limit me almost entirely to headphone listening, I find loudspeakers are a much superior way to listen to recorded music, simply because you do not experience music exclusively through vibrations that enter your ear canal. Deep bass is experienced with your entire head, and even your entire body. Even with my high-end headphones which have extended bass response, the thud of a bass drum or the growl of the bass violins sounds much more profound when listened to on speakers than using headphones.

Well, everyone can't play loudspeakers all night long at high volume levels (neighbours!). Room acoustics make loudspeaker sound not so detailed unless you invest tons of money to make it acoustically good. Good headphones are cheap compared to loudspeakers.

The reason why bass frequencies sound so bad with headphones is spatial distortion. Crossfeed fixes this and makes bass just as "realistic" and powerful as from loudspeakers. When you listen to loudspeakers, the level difference between ears at low frequencies is never more than a couple of decibels. Also, the time difference is never larger than about 0.64 ms. Loudpeaker bass is always almost mono at ears! With headphones things are completely different! Level difference can be 10-20 dBs and time difference even 5 ms! Our brain finds this "impossible" because that's what it is unless the sound come at the ears. That's why bass sounds so bad. Crossfeed corrects this. I love headphones with crossfeed. The sound is extremely detailed and I can play loud in the middle of the night without the fear of being evicted. Before discovering crossfeed I didn't like headphones that much.

It is true, that only loudspeakers give body sensations. We can't have everyting...  :-\
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 12, 2017, 10:41:00 AM
I usually use cross-feed when listening with headphones, but it does not adequately address the bass problem.

In the days of the LP, a crossover network would be used with the disc cutter so that the low frequency (below ~100 Hz) was mono. This was because the left channel was encoded as a +45 degree displacement and the right channel a -45 degree displacement of the stylus. Mono would cause horizontal motion of the stylus but L/R difference would cause vertical displacement. Too much low-frequency vertical displacement of the stylus was a physical problem. Unfortunately this processing was typically not implemented when the same recordings were remastered for CD.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on May 12, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
Quote from: Florestan on May 12, 2017, 03:55:23 AM
I've started exploring this set:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/713bxDAK1OL._SX355_.jpg)

CD 1-4 Symphonies Nos. 1-6 - Aladdin Suite - Symphonic Rhapsody - Overture
"Helios" - Cupid and the Poet: Orchestral Suite - Paraphase on "Nearer, my God, to Thee"
Eva Hess-Thaysen (soprano), Jan Lund (tenor), Nicholas Cox (clarinet), Kevin Price
(trombone), Graham Johns (side drum), Jonathan Aasgaard (cello), Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1999-2001, 2003)

CD 5 Flute Concerto - Pan and Syrinx - Works for String Orchestra
Rune Most (flute), The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Royal Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (2001, 2005)

CD 6 Violin Concerto - Romance for Violin and Orchestra - Violin Sonata No. 1
Malcolm Stewart (violin), Johannes Søe Hansen (violin), Frank Jarlsfelt (piano),
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Douglas Bostock (1994, 2003)

CD 7 Clarinet Concerto - Wind Quintet - Serenata in vano
John Kruse (clarinet), Cecile Boiffin (side drum), Scandinavian Chamber Players,
The Czech Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra Pardubice, Douglas Bostock (1996)

CD 8+9 Five Piano Pieces - Symphonic Suite - Humoresque Bagatelles - Festive
Prelude - Drømmen om "Glade Jul" (The Dream of "Silent Night") - Chaconne - Theme
With Variations - Suite - Three Piano Pieces - Piano Music for Children and Adults
Anne Øland (piano) (1992-1993)

CD 10 Music Set to Five Poems by J. P. Jacobsen - Six Songs Set to Texts by Ludvig
Holstein and other lieder
Ulrik Cold (bass), Johannes Mikkelsen (piano) (1980, 1982)

Thanks for that listing.  I hadn't paid much attention to the contents of this box before, but - Romance for violin and orchestra; Anne Øland's complete piano music; a whole disc of songs.  Interesting!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on May 12, 2017, 10:41:00 AM
I usually use cross-feed when listening with headphones, but it does not adequately address the bass problem.
Many crossfeeders are a bit weak, that is they don't even out the bass between ears enough. It depends on the recording, how much crossfeed if needed for optimum result. Too much crossfeed is bad too.

Quote from: Scarpia on May 12, 2017, 10:41:00 AMIn the days of the LP, a crossover network would be used with the disc cutter so that the low frequency (below ~100 Hz) was mono. This was because the left channel was encoded as a +45 degree displacement and the right channel a -45 degree displacement of the stylus. Mono would cause horizontal motion of the stylus but L/R difference would cause vertical displacement. Too much low-frequency vertical displacement of the stylus was a physical problem. Unfortunately this processing was typically not implemented when the same recordings were remastered for CD.
That is "elliptic" filtering and is efectively crossfeeding at lowest frequencies (typically 150 Hz or 300 Hz being the cut off frequency). It's possible this filtering is one reason why some people (who use headphones such as DJs) find vinyl sound better than CD. Channel separation is worshipped on CD too much just because "infinite" separation is technically possible. With loudspeakers it makes little difference, because room acoustics is a (complex) strong crossfeeder. In "real life" channel separation larger than 30-40 dB in unnecessory.

I believe the secret of vinyl sound (why people love it) is the fact that mono signal is distorted differently from the channel difference signal due to the mechanical difference of stylus movement in vertical and horizontal directions. This means that stereophony modulates distortion and the resulting distortion is "spatialized". I have written a nyquist-plugin for Audacity using this idea to produce vinyl-like sound (when I make music).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 12, 2017, 08:06:56 AM
Well, I have to admit I didn't fully realize it was Decca until I the disc arrived. I didn't think about the label. I must have seen the label logo on the cover, but bells didn't ring in my head. Also, even Decca has good sound sometimes so you never know. The sound of this twofer (as for the symphonies) isn't particularly bad, just not as good as Leaper. Decca sound works much better on loudspeakers than headphones (spatial distortion). Someday I may try this twofer with loudspeakers (most of my listening is with headphones these days). I wonder what you would recommend now that you know I am not a die hard fan of Decca sound. Kuchar?

Well, that's understandable. I mean I personally have never had a lot of issues with Decca's audio quality through the years, but will freely admit that they, like any label, have made some missteps along the way. Honestly, I don't know Kuchar's Nielsen as well as I probably should, so I can't recommend it (even though I'm quite aware there are many here who do, in fact, enjoy his performances). My favorite cycle overall is Oramo's on BIS, but I know their recordings are quite expensive, so it might not be a first, second, or even third-choice for you.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 13, 2017, 04:26:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/J8KeriVSVVE
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2017, 06:10:53 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on May 13, 2017, 04:03:42 AM
Ok here's the deal, I'm going to count to ten and then turn around and you're gonna give me directions and if I land in the right place.....then I might join the club  8)

(btw, I already love that Wind Quintet)

I'm not sure what to recommend you. I'm also not sure how familiar you are with Nielsen's symphonies and concerti, but these are the works I recommend you checking out. Listen to the symphonies in order to get a feel of how he developed as a composer as each symphony is a world of it's own but you'd never mistake who the composer is for a second. His stylistic fingerprints are all over the place.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2017, 07:45:53 AM
Here's a question for the other Nielsenites here, how's Douglas Bostock's cycle? I've read some mixed reviews on his set. Some enjoy it, some say it's underpowered, some complain about the audio quality, etc., so what's the lowdown? Recommended?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 13, 2017, 09:05:38 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on May 13, 2017, 04:03:42 AM
Ok here's the deal, I'm going to count to ten and then turn around and you're gonna give me directions and if I land in the right place.....then I might join the club  8)

(btw, I already love that Wind Quintet)

Works to make you join the Nielsen club:

- Symphony No. 4, Op 29
- Clarinet Concerto, Op. 57
- Helios Overture, Op. 17

:)

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 13, 2017, 04:26:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/J8KeriVSVVE

This recording hasn't been done in vain! Good find Karl.  :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 12, 2017, 06:24:23 PM
Well, that's understandable. I mean I personally have never had a lot of issues with Decca's audio quality through the years, but will freely admit that they, like any label, have made some missteps along the way. Honestly, I don't know Kuchar's Nielsen as well as I probably should, so I can't recommend it (even though I'm quite aware there are many here who do, in fact, enjoy his performances). My favorite cycle overall is Oramo's on BIS, but I know their recordings are quite expensive, so it might not be a first, second, or even third-choice for you.

Well, I can live with Decca sound and sometimes it's even great (e.g. Aladdin Suite).

My problem with Blomstedt with symphonies 1 & 2 is the heavy Brahmsian feel and the style of recording doesn't help. I listened to Leaper's symphony 1 today to remind myself how it is and yes, it does not sound Brahmsian at all. Leaper has a more joyful and brighter feel that I find "nordic" and suitable for Nielsen's music. Blomstedt's Nielsen is "brown" while Leaper's is "yellow".

It seems that Blomstedt is much better with 4-6 so I might get the other twofer too. The first one was a great purchase for the mindblowingly good Aladdin Suite. Blomstedt made me really like the work, something Naxos completely fails to do.

I may consider Oramo because BIS has stellar sonics most of the time (even multichannel SACD!).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 18, 2017, 05:44:11 AM
Cross-post

The Opus 1!

http://www.youtube.com/v/iIhufkXFtEE
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2017, 05:55:27 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 18, 2017, 05:44:11 AM
Cross-post

The Opus 1!

http://www.youtube.com/v/iIhufkXFtEE

It's certainly a beauty.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 18, 2017, 06:09:41 AM
I'm going to do a chronological listen, though not relying on opus numbers. A couple of online versions of the newish CNW catalogue have information about dates.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 18, 2017, 06:09:58 AM
Sweet.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 19, 2017, 04:00:36 AM
All right! These have landed:
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 19, 2017, 06:11:53 AM
I have acquired Leaper's Espansiva. A very sympathetic reading, which I find beneficially lyrical and - as Poju writes - with a Nordic sound. A nice addition to my Nielsen library.


Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on May 19, 2017, 07:47:26 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 19, 2017, 04:00:36 AM
All right! These have landed:

Great! Interested to hear your opinion Karl once you have given them a spin or two.  ;)

Quote from: (: premont :) on May 19, 2017, 06:11:53 AM
I have acquired Leaper's Espansiva. A very sympathetic reading, which I find beneficially lyrical and - as Poju writes - with a Nordic sound. A nice addition to my Nielsen library.

Nice to hear that.  :)

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Parsifal on May 19, 2017, 10:45:09 AM
Looks like I'm missing out on the Leaper love-fest.  :(
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on September 29, 2017, 12:44:17 AM
I've only listened to about 20 minutes of this recording so far, on streaming, but oh my goodness.

[asin]B00WUFBRFA[/asin]
The sound quality is just SO good. I'd seen a couple of reviews commenting favourably on the quality and clarity of the singing, but it's just fantastic to have it jumping out of even my not especially impressive computer speakers.

I'm not at all an opera fan but I think I will be buying this.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on May 14, 2018, 08:26:09 PM
I'm amazed that there are 41 pages (so far) focusing on Nielsen's works!!!!!! Astounding! I had no idea that he had such a following here at GMG!  :o
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 14, 2018, 08:39:38 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 14, 2018, 08:26:09 PM
I'm amazed that there are 41 pages (so far) focusing on Nielsen's works!!!!!! Astounding! I had no idea that he had such a following here at GMG!  :o

They should be more for this fascinating composer, though  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: North Star on May 14, 2018, 10:52:23 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 14, 2018, 08:39:38 PM
They should be more for this fascinating composer, though  ;D
But there are - 51 instead of 41 ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 14, 2018, 08:26:09 PM
I'm amazed that there are 51 pages (so far) focusing on Nielsen's works!!!!!! Astounding! I had no idea that he had such a following here at GMG!  :o

Oh yes, consider me a hardcore Nielsen junkie and there are several of us here. I take it you're a fan, Peter? Any favorite works?

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 06:29:21 AM
Quote from: North Star on May 14, 2018, 10:52:23 PM
But there are - 51 instead of 41 ;)

Errr, I only see 41 - an inside joke?  $:)  $:)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 06:31:41 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
Oh yes, consider me a hardcore Nielsen junkie and there are several of us here. I take it you're a fan, Peter? Any favorite works?

Mmm, the symphonies (esp 1, 2 and 4) and Helios Overture, but I'm not a Nielsen junkie (yet). I have had my eyes on the quartets for a while.....     :-\
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 15, 2018, 06:38:31 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 06:29:21 AM
Errr, I only see 41 - an inside joke?  $:) $:)

Maybe the pagination differs, depending on how/whence one views the forum?


(Here on my desktop, my post has just started off p.52....)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 06:41:10 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 06:31:41 AM
Mmm, the symphonies (esp 1, 2 and 4) and Helios Overture, but I'm not a Nielsen junkie (yet). I have had my eyes on the quartets for a while.....     :-\

No love for the 3rd or 5th symphonies? ??? Nielsen's SQs are 'okay' --- nothing really special. The best chamber work he wrote is the Wind Quintet, although I do like his Violin Sonata No. 2 a good bit.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 06:43:35 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 15, 2018, 06:38:31 AM
Maybe the pagination differs, depending on how/whence one views the forum?


(Here on my desktop, my post has just started off p.52....)

Yep, we're now up to 52 pages, which is cool. 8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: North Star on May 15, 2018, 06:46:34 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 06:29:21 AM
Errr, I only see 41 - an inside joke?  $:)  $:)
Well it's your own fault if you change the settings so that you view 25 posts, instead of the default 20, per page..
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 06:51:41 AM
Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about all this number of pages stuff...let's get back to the composer, shall we?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 15, 2018, 06:52:15 AM
I think practically all the chamber music expert.

http://www.youtube.com/v/vygYLDuJtP8
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 07:10:26 AM
Quote from: North Star on May 15, 2018, 06:46:34 AM
Well it's your own fault if you change the settings so that you view 25 posts, instead of the default 20, per page..

Ooops, I didn't even know. He he!  $:)

Which Nielsen works do you enjoy, North Star?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 15, 2018, 07:19:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/AyLKnPoIZQM
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 07:21:23 AM
Peter, you've got to to give the 3rd, 5th, and 6th symphonies some more of your time. I threw in the 6th because I believe it's one of his finest symphonies. The 1st, 2nd, and 4th are actually my least favorite of the symphonic cycle. Also, check out the concerti. The Clarinet Concerto and the Flute Concerto are, to be quite blunt, extraordinary. The Violin Concerto is quite good, too, but is a bit more 'traditional' sounding, but it has an interesting structure and I absolutely adore the last movement --- such fun!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 07:32:22 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 07:21:23 AM
Peter, you've got to to give the 3rd, 5th, and 6th symphonies some more of your time. I threw in the 6th because I believe it's one of his finest symphonies. The 1st, 2nd, and 4th are actually my least favorite of the symphonic cycle. Also, check out the concerti. The Clarinet Concerto and the Flute Concerto are, to be quite blunt, extraordinary. The Violin Concerto is quite good, too, but is a bit more 'traditional' sounding, but it has an interesting structure and I absolutely adore the last movement --- such fun!

So much to explore...  :P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 07:37:31 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 07:32:22 AM
So much to explore...  :P

I know the feeling, but if Nielsen's 3rd or 5th don't do anything for you, then I'll have to just say you're not a fan of his music. That's how confident I am that you'll enjoy both of these symphonies immensely if you give them a chance. These are two pinnacle works of his oeuvre. If you don't feel a musical lightning bolt hit you in the last movement of the 5th, then I'm going to wonder if we're even listening to the same composer. ;) Bernstein is your man in both of these symphonies. It doesn't get any better, IMHO.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: North Star on May 15, 2018, 07:40:04 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 15, 2018, 07:10:26 AM
Ooops, I didn't even know. He he!  $:)

Which Nielsen works do you enjoy, North Star?
The symphonies, and concertos, Rhapsody Overture, Helios Overture, Wind Quintet, Serenata in vano, Chaconne Op. 32, Theme and Variations Op. 40, Piano Suite 'Luciferian' Op. 45, Three Piano Pieces Op. 59. I'm sure there are some others too..
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 15, 2018, 02:40:20 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2018, 07:37:31 AM
I know the feeling, but if Nielsen's 3rd or 5th don't do anything for you, then I'll have to just say you're not a fan of his music.

::)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 16, 2018, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 13, 2017, 07:45:53 AM
Here's a question for the other Nielsenites here, how's Douglas Bostock's cycle? I've read some mixed reviews on his set. Some enjoy it, some say it's underpowered, some complain about the audio quality, etc., so what's the lowdown? Recommended?

Has anyone chimed in on this yet? It's one of the cycles I don't have, so I can't speak to it... but I, too, would be interested what people thought its merits might be. (My favorites are Schmidt and Gilbert, at this point... although I suspect that Gilbert treats Nielsen a bit like Colin Davis did Sibelius in Boston.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 16, 2018, 01:05:51 AM
I find at all right, unexceptional.  My opinion is, that one needn't go out of one's way for it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 17, 2018, 06:08:34 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 16, 2018, 12:44:34 AM
Has anyone chimed in on this yet? It's one of the cycles I don't have, so I can't speak to it... but I, too, would be interested what people thought its merits might be. (My favorites are Schmidt and Gilbert, at this point... although I suspect that Gilbert treats Nielsen a bit like Colin Davis did Sibelius in Boston.)

The general consensus, from what I've read, seems to be that Bostock isn't great, but serviceable, which doesn't really sound like a ringing endorsement to me. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 29, 2018, 06:47:52 AM
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on May 16, 2018, 12:44:34 AM
Has anyone chimed in on this yet? It's one of the cycles I don't have, so I can't speak to it... but I, too, would be interested what people thought its merits might be. (My favorites are Schmidt and Gilbert, at this point... although I suspect that Gilbert treats Nielsen a bit like Colin Davis did Sibelius in Boston.)
Meaning what exactly?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 29, 2018, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 29, 2018, 06:47:52 AM
Meaning what exactly?

Souped-up post-romanticism, Richard-Straussesque... ironing out some of the kinks; presenting a lush harmonic jungle from a safe distance... delectable and easy to consume.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 30, 2018, 01:00:26 AM
If Gilbert does that . . . it is truly as great a disservice to Nielsen as to Sibelius.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 30, 2018, 01:14:02 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 30, 2018, 01:00:26 AM
If Gilbert does that . . . it is truly as great a disservice to Nielsen as to Sibelius.

You are right to posit this with an if. But let's assume there is a reasonable aspect to the point I am making (i.e. other listeners can appreciated it - the point, that is), then I would posit in turn with the question of whether Colin Davis' Boston set was a disservice to Sibelius. I think it has done LOTS to popularize Sibelius and to little or no detriment as far as I can tell.

I, for one, REALLY like the Gilbert Nielsen recordings, without thinking that they are doing what Mahlerian thinks Karajan was doing to Mahler's Sixth.  ;D

Or perhaps I'm wrong or expressed myself clumsily.  ::)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 30, 2018, 01:20:02 AM
No, no, you're fine.  And here in the early morning, I expressed myself rather flatly.  Because, although I do prefer my Nielsen & Sibelius on the trim, spare side . . . as you know, I am in principle open to a variety of interpretation.

Still, there is no denying the reason why Stravinsky was an early, seminal influence upon me:  I have something of a native disinclination to troppo romantico.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 30, 2018, 06:45:55 AM
FWIW, I thought initially that Gilbert's Nielsen was too polite, but after much listening and revisitation, I'll go ahead and say his cycle is one of the best. These are actually quite brawny performances and Gilbert's understanding of the musical language goes well beyond mere surface sheen. He certainly understands the undercurrents as well as the currents. His performances remind me of a battered pickup truck, but one that still houses an immaculate motor and internal parts. No matter what kind of dent the performance suffers from, they still find their way to the conclusion (i. e. the end of the work) and do so in a remarkable way.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 30, 2018, 10:36:51 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 30, 2018, 06:45:55 AM
FWIW, I thought initially that Gilbert's Nielsen was too polite, but after much listening and revisitation, I'll go ahead and say his cycle is one of the best. These are actually quite brawny performances and Gilbert's understanding of the musical language goes well beyond mere surface sheen. He certainly understands the undercurrents as well as the currents. His performances remind me of a battered pickup truck, but one that still houses an immaculate motor and internal parts. No matter what kind of dent the performance suffers from, they still find their way to the conclusion (i. e. the end of the work) and do so in a remarkable way.


;D Wonderful way to put it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 14, 2018, 06:23:21 PM
I'm truly astounded and delighted by these 4 singular string quartets. Highly entertaining, quirky, intense, with personality. They have been a great revelation lately.

(https://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/0747313152162_p0_v1_s550x406.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51g8-RED8vL._SY355_.jpg)

There is not even a dull one. These recordings make justice to them.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on July 15, 2018, 02:54:21 AM
Agreed, a strong contribution to the literature.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on July 15, 2018, 03:57:50 PM
Yes, I wish "early" Nielsen didn't get put down as often as it seems to be. There's some pretty damn good music in there, written by a fully-fledged adult.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 09, 2019, 10:57:40 AM
Happy birthday, Carl!!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: kyjo on June 11, 2019, 08:13:54 PM
Recently I've discovered what original, charming, inventive, surprising, touching, and sometimes weird works Nielsen's string quartets are! They're easily some of the finest string quartets from the late 19th and early 20th centuries that I know. Particularly of note are the riveting finale of no. 2 in F minor and the strikingly powerful slow movement of no. 3 in E flat. They have been excellently served by brilliant performances by the Young Danish String Quartet (now simply known as the Danish String Quartet) on Dacapo. This is some of the finest chamber music playing I've ever heard!


[asin]B000NOIWO4[/asin]
[asin]B0016IV1VM[/asin]
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 11, 2019, 10:08:36 PM
Quote from: kyjo on June 11, 2019, 08:13:54 PM
Recently I've discovered what original, charming, inventive, surprising, touching, and sometimes weird works Nielsen's string quartets are! They're easily some of the finest string quartets from the late 19th and early 20th centuries that I know. Particularly of note are the riveting finale of no. 2 in F minor and the strikingly powerful slow movement of no. 3 in E flat. They have been excellently served by brilliant performances by the Young Danish String Quartet (now simply known as the Danish String Quartet) on Dacapo. This is some of the finest chamber music playing I've ever heard!


[asin]B000NOIWO4[/asin]
[asin]B0016IV1VM[/asin]

Almost exactly a year ago I posted some brief impressions with these CDs, impressions that are very shared with your own views. These quartets are some of the very best I've heard, simply delightful, witty, with lots of spark. I do remember that gorgeous slow movement from the SQ 3. I recall being very impressed by it.

Besides the SQs, his String Quintet is worth investigating, so are the Violín Sonatas and works for violin solo. Some highly attractive music there.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Jo498 on June 12, 2019, 12:55:55 AM
Not sure if it is still so cheap but one of the best deals is the dacapo Box with Nielsen chamber/piano music that contains the two discs with quartets shown above and quite a bit more. I have to admit that I found the early string quintet charming but rather negligeable but the string quartets and the second violin sonata are major works that deserved to be as well known as the wind quintet.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on June 12, 2019, 01:36:41 AM
Quote from: Jo498 on June 12, 2019, 12:55:55 AM
Not sure if it is still so cheap but one of the best deals is the dacapo Box with Nielsen chamber/piano music that contains the two discs with quartets shown above and quite a bit more. I have to admit that I found the early string quintet charming but rather negligeable but the string quartets and the second violin sonata are major works that deserved to be as well known as the wind quintet.

I picked the box earlier this year, so without remembering what I paid I must have found it reasonable.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 20, 2019, 02:57:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/KeXxCBafeWQ

I found the String Quartet No. 3 on YouTube performed by the Danish SQ. This definitely is a super work! The work is given in such a flawless rendition. This quartet is bold, generous in striking ideas, continuously brilliant in nearly every note, there is no place for dullness. Simply impressive and delightful music. Now it's one of my very favorite Nielsen works.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Andy D. on July 20, 2019, 05:33:05 PM
I listened to the fifth and sixth symphonies today and like them a lot. I see more Nielsen in my future.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 20, 2019, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: Andy D. on July 20, 2019, 05:33:05 PM
I listened to the fifth and sixth symphonies today and like them a lot. I see more Nielsen in my future.

Excellent! My very favorite (5th) and the one that has impressed me lately (6th). Nielsen is consistently great, with a quite distinctive voice. It's hard to go wrong with him!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vers la flamme on August 21, 2019, 02:47:29 PM
Nielsen is one of a handful of composers that I'm really interested in, and somehow drawn to, yet have never clicked with me. Perhaps I haven't heard the right performance, but every time I've listened to a symphony of his, it has completely failed to phase me in the slightest. Someone tell me what's a world class, legendary performance of one of his symphonies that is guaranteed to make an impression on me, and I'll give it a shot.  ;D

I like Sibelius a lot, and perhaps I'm unconsciously comparing Nielsen to the Finnish master. Are they similar in the slightest? I always see it as a "if you like x you will like y" kind of thing with the two.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 21, 2019, 04:35:07 PM
It's funny how tastes differ with each person.  :P

Nielsen was one of my first loves musically speaking and remains as such, and I prefer him to Sibelius by a slight margin.

I'm not that good suggesting recordings about his symphonies because my preferences are very different from those of other people. However, my go-to is Rozhdestvensky on Chandos. The recordings of the 3rd and 5th Symphonies there are the best I've ever heard.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: kyjo on August 21, 2019, 05:07:30 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 21, 2019, 02:47:29 PM
Nielsen is one of a handful of composers that I'm really interested in, and somehow drawn to, yet have never clicked with me. Perhaps I haven't heard the right performance, but every time I've listened to a symphony of his, it has completely failed to phase me in the slightest. Someone tell me what's a world class, legendary performance of one of his symphonies that is guaranteed to make an impression on me, and I'll give it a shot.  ;D

I like Sibelius a lot, and perhaps I'm unconsciously comparing Nielsen to the Finnish master. Are they similar in the slightest? I always see it as a "if you like x you will like y" kind of thing with the two.

I love both Sibelius and Nielsen, but it's not uncommon for people to love one but not the other. After all, they are very different composers (though sharing some common features). I can't claim to be an expert on the discography of the Nielsen symphonies, but I can say that I've greatly enjoyed the recordings by the San Francisco Symphony under Blomstedt (Decca) and the NY Phil under Alan Gilbert (Dacapo). There are many other recordings out there which have received praise from members here.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on August 21, 2019, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 21, 2019, 02:47:29 PM
Nielsen is one of a handful of composers that I'm really interested in, and somehow drawn to, yet have never clicked with me. Perhaps I haven't heard the right performance, but every time I've listened to a symphony of his, it has completely failed to phase me in the slightest. Someone tell me what's a world class, legendary performance of one of his symphonies that is guaranteed to make an impression on me, and I'll give it a shot.  ;D

I like Sibelius a lot, and perhaps I'm unconsciously comparing Nielsen to the Finnish master. Are they similar in the slightest? I always see it as a "if you like x you will like y" kind of thing with the two.

Sadly there are no such guarantees. It partly depends whether you respond to more emotional performances or more structural ones.

As to the Sibelius comparison, the more I delve into both composers the more I think they're quite dissimilar. Yes there are some commonalities, but in some ways that's more about how they're both not conventional Romantic composers. Their methods of moving away from those conventions are individual.

If I had to sum it up (particularly focusing on symphonies), Sibelius is interested in symphonic development and evolution of motifs over time, whereas Nielsen is more likely to forcefully throw his material down and expect you to deal with its arrival.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on August 22, 2019, 01:40:24 AM
Quote from: Madiel on August 21, 2019, 09:12:27 PM
...whereas Nielsen is more likely to forcefully throw his material down and expect you to deal with its arrival.

I can deal with Nielsen's material just fine thank you   0:)

To my ears Nielsen's music is funny/anarcist while Sibelius is serious.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Andy D. on August 22, 2019, 03:59:40 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on August 22, 2019, 01:40:24 AM
I can deal with Nielsen's material just fine thank you   0:)

To my ears Nielsen's music is funny/anarcist while Sibelius is serious.

An interesting opinion. I know both composers do pastoral amazingly imo.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on August 22, 2019, 06:15:38 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on August 22, 2019, 01:40:24 AM
To my ears Nielsen's music is funny/anarcist while Sibelius is serious.

That's probably as good a point of distinction as any.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 22, 2019, 11:51:08 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on August 22, 2019, 01:40:24 AM
I can deal with Nielsen's material just fine thank you   0:)

To my ears Nielsen's music is funny/anarcist while Sibelius is serious.

I kind of agree with this. Nielsen's music has malice, piquancy and a sense of latent energy, whilst Sibelius's is more restrained and serious as you state.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on August 23, 2019, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on August 21, 2019, 04:35:07 PM
It's funny how tastes differ with each person.  :P

Nielsen was one of my first loves musically speaking and remains as such, and I prefer him to Sibelius by a slight margin.

I'm not that good suggesting recordings about his symphonies because my preferences are very different from those of other people. However, my go-to is Rozhdestvensky on Chandos. The recordings of the 3rd and 5th Symphonies there are the best I've ever heard.

I'd almost forgotten that Rozhdestvensky did a cycle back in the mid 90s.  It does not seem to get mentioned much at all.

There have been complete sets from

Berglund
Bernstein (2, 3, 4, 5) & Ormandy (1 & 6)
Blomstedt (twice)
Bostock
Myung-Whun Chung & Neeme  Järvi (Bis)
Colin Davis
Gilbert
Neeme Järvi (DG)
Paavo Järvi
Kuchar
Leaper
Oramo
Rozhdestvensky
Salonen
Ole Schmidt
Schønwandt
Storgårds
Brydon Thomson
Vänskä

And a historical box on Danacord with recordings by Tuxen, Grondahl and Jensen. 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Feb03/Nielsen_symphonies_historic.htm

Also I think Thomas Jensen recorded them all.

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 24, 2019, 12:11:20 PM
Quote from: Madiel on August 21, 2019, 09:12:27 PM
Sadly there are no such guarantees. It partly depends whether you respond to more emotional performances or more structural ones.

As to the Sibelius comparison, the more I delve into both composers the more I think they're quite dissimilar. Yes there are some commonalities, but in some ways that's more about how they're both not conventional Romantic composers. Their methods of moving away from those conventions are individual.

If I had to sum it up (particularly focusing on symphonies), Sibelius is interested in symphonic development and evolution of motifs over time, whereas Nielsen is more likely to forcefully throw his material down and expect you to deal with its arrival.

Nice!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 24, 2019, 01:17:33 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on August 21, 2019, 02:47:29 PMSomeone tell me what's a world class, legendary performance of one of his symphonies that is guaranteed to make an impression on me, and I'll give it a shot.  ;D

The Third, the "Sinfonia Espansiva" conducted by Bernstein. If that doesn't convince you of Nielsen's worth, then just give up  ;D ;)


Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on August 24, 2019, 04:46:19 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 24, 2019, 01:17:33 PM
The Third, the "Sinfonia Espansiva" conducted by Bernstein. If that doesn't convince you of Nielsen's worth, then just give up  ;D ;)


Sarge

Bernstein's 4 & 5 are also very impressive.  However, why not start with something very different, the Clarinet Concerto.  (Do not be tempted by the Benny Goodman recording; it is notoriously bad.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 25, 2019, 01:01:02 PM
Quote from: Daverz on August 23, 2019, 09:49:41 PM
 
I'd almost forgotten that Rozhdestvensky did a cycle back in the mid 90s.  It does not seem to get mentioned much at all.

There have been complete sets from

Berglund
Bernstein (2, 3, 4, 5) & Ormandy (1 & 6)
Blomstedt (twice)
Bostock
Myung-Whun Chung & Neeme  Järvi (Bis)
Colin Davis
Gilbert
Neeme Järvi (DG)
Paavo Järvi
Kuchar
Leaper
Oramo
Rozhdestvensky
Salonen
Ole Schmidt
Schønwandt
Storgårds
Brydon Thomson
Vänskä

And a historical box on Danacord with recordings by Tuxen, Grondahl and Jensen. 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Feb03/Nielsen_symphonies_historic.htm

Also I think Thomas Jensen recorded them all.

Oh, thanks for it. I didn't know the another Rozhdestvensky set at all either. I wonder how it compares with the one on Chandos.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 25, 2019, 01:49:47 PM
Quote from: Daverz on August 24, 2019, 04:46:19 PM
Bernstein's 4 & 5 are also very impressive.  However, why not start with something very different, the Clarinet Concerto.  (Do not be tempted by the Benny Goodman recording; it is notoriously bad.)

Excellent suggestion! (says the clarinetist)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on August 25, 2019, 03:25:08 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on August 25, 2019, 01:01:02 PM
Oh, thanks for it. I didn't know the another Rozhdestvensky set at all either. I wonder how it compares with the one on Chandos.

Only one Rozhdestvensky cycle on Chandos AFAIK.  There are 2 Blomstedt cycles, though, one on EMI and the other on Decca.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 26, 2019, 05:03:31 AM
Quote from: Daverz on August 24, 2019, 04:46:19 PM
Bernstein's 4 & 5 are also very impressive.  However, why not start with something very different, the Clarinet Concerto.  (Do not be tempted by the Benny Goodman recording; it is notoriously bad.)

Worth seeking out this 4 disc version of the Bernstein/Ormandy cycle as it adds the 3 concerti (NOT Goodman) plus some orchestral works - my favourite Helios but not (sadly) Sagadrom

[asin]B000050NWY[/asin]

still available on UK Amazon for  £11.41 plus postage - a good buy
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 26, 2019, 11:19:09 AM
Quote from: Daverz on August 25, 2019, 03:25:08 PM
Only one Rozhdestvensky cycle on Chandos AFAIK.  There are 2 Blomstedt cycles, though, one on EMI and the other on Decca.

I had understood that there was another Rozhdestvensky cycle. I like his tempos in these symphonies, particularly the endings, they are very majestic. Those Blomstedt cycles are excellent too, albeit the Decca one seems more commented.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on February 29, 2020, 08:28:45 AM
The Sinfonia espansiva, live in Atlanta! (https://www.earrelevant.net/2020/02/review-aso-northern-lights-2/)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on February 29, 2020, 08:51:34 PM
Good for those who can go! I've heard live Nos. 4 and 5. Revelatory and miraculous.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vers la flamme on March 01, 2020, 05:21:58 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 29, 2020, 08:28:45 AM
The Sinfonia espansiva, live in Atlanta! (https://www.earrelevant.net/2020/02/review-aso-northern-lights-2/)

I'm not much of a Nielsen fan so I didn't go. Tell me how much I missed out on, now  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on March 03, 2020, 06:22:58 AM
Any experience of either of these albums? The Blomstedt has had a number of incarnations.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GULw8OgbL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y4nh4u63L._SX466_.jpg)

Both are of some interest for filling gaps in my collection without too much repetition.

EDIT: Also this one, which is not included in the Salonen Nielsen collection with the symphonies.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JHWPVu9oL._SX522_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 03, 2020, 06:44:25 AM
Quote from: Madiel on March 03, 2020, 06:22:58 AM
Any experience of either of these albums? The Blomstedt has had a number of incarnations.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GULw8OgbL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y4nh4u63L._SX466_.jpg)

Both are of some interest for filling gaps in my collection without too much repetition.

EDIT: Also this one, which is not included in the Salonen Nielsen collection with the symphonies.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JHWPVu9oL._SX522_.jpg)

I have the Blomstedt set and its very good.  A good companion to his 1st Nielsen cycle for EMI in Denmark
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on March 03, 2020, 06:51:48 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 03, 2020, 06:44:25 AM
I have the Blomstedt set and its very good.  A good companion to his 1st Nielsen cycle for EMI in Denmark

Yes, well in a sense it IS part of that cycle.

One of the incarnations that brings it all together, I now realise, is this box:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v5r3pTb9L._SX466_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on March 03, 2020, 07:39:13 AM
Quote from: Madiel on March 03, 2020, 06:22:58 AM
Any experience of either of these albums? The Blomstedt has had a number of incarnations.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GULw8OgbL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y4nh4u63L._SX466_.jpg)

Both are of some interest for filling gaps in my collection without too much repetition.

EDIT: Also this one, which is not included in the Salonen Nielsen collection with the symphonies.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JHWPVu9oL._SX522_.jpg)

I've got the Blomstedt two-fer. I'd call it good but not superb.  Overall, his symphony cycle is stronger.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Jo498 on March 03, 2020, 10:27:22 AM
The Roshdestvensky is slowish but good and good sound and has a few first recordings or almost unique items.
I am not that familiar with the works but I have usually heard about one or two other recordings. Unless one is really passionate about these smaller orchestral works it seems quite sufficient.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on March 03, 2020, 11:28:06 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 03, 2020, 07:39:13 AM
I've got the Blomstedt two-fer. I'd call it good but not superb.  Overall, his symphony cycle is stronger.

Which one? He recorded two of them.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on March 03, 2020, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: Jo498 on March 03, 2020, 10:27:22 AM
The Roshdestvensky is slowish but good and good sound and has a few first recordings or almost unique items.
I am not that familiar with the works but I have usually heard about one or two other recordings. Unless one is really passionate about these smaller orchestral works it seems quite sufficient.

Yes the main criticism I've seen of that one is speed.

I can probably try and compare most of this on streaming actually...

I would rather like to collect Nielsen's smaller orchestral works (plus I still need the flute and clarinet concertos but there are a lot more choices there). I have some in the Da Capo box set because it includes the widely praised Dausgaard recording, but there are plenty not included there.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on March 03, 2020, 06:55:39 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 03, 2020, 11:28:06 AM
Which one? He recorded two of them.

SFSO
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on March 03, 2020, 07:32:06 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 03, 2020, 06:55:39 PM
SFSO

8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Jo498 on March 04, 2020, 12:05:01 AM
Quote from: Madiel on March 03, 2020, 02:32:53 PM
Yes the main criticism I've seen of that one is speed.

I can probably try and compare most of this on streaming actually...

I would rather like to collect Nielsen's smaller orchestral works (plus I still need the flute and clarinet concertos but there are a lot more choices there). I have some in the Da Capo box set because it includes the widely praised Dausgaard recording, but there are plenty not included there.
I checked again and I think the only piece that has an uncommonly broad tempo is the Helios ouverture. Which is also often recorded, so you will probably have eventually some as a filler and not depend solely on Roshdestvensky.
Schonwandt did the concerti as well and this recording was both on dacapo? and Naxos? I am surprised that Dacapo or Kontrapunkt don't have discs with all conceivable odds and ends by Nielsen. The dacapo chamber music collection was remarkably complete.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on March 04, 2020, 01:34:15 AM
Schonwandt's concertos were on Chandos. I'm guessing that was before he did the symphonies for Da Capo. And definitely some positive reviews for that one.

Helios Overture is one of the things that I already have, so not such a big concern.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
I've just began enjoying Nielsen's music in the past week after months of getting nothing out of it. I have the bulk of the Blomstedt/SFS cycle, symphonies 2-5. His music is quite unique, a symphonist like none other I've heard. A composer he reminds me of somewhat is Paul Hindemith, though I couldn't tell you why, other than that I hear the same kind of exacting precision and similar orchestral colors in Nielsen that I do in Hindemith. I often would hear his name mentioned in the same breath as Sibelius, and I think this explains in part why I had struggled with his music in the past; I was expecting Sibelius but I got Nielsen. They may have been near contemporary in age and both hailed from Nordic lands, but beyond that they are two completely different composers.

Where did his music come from? Who were his influences? Were there others in Denmark writing similar music at the same time? I'm still trying to fit together all the puzzle pieces, if you will.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Irons on March 21, 2020, 08:41:43 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
I've just began enjoying Nielsen's music in the past week after months of getting nothing out of it. I have the bulk of the Blomstedt/SFS cycle, symphonies 2-5. His music is quite unique, a symphonist like none other I've heard. A composer he reminds me of somewhat is Paul Hindemith, though I couldn't tell you why, other than that I hear the same kind of exacting precision and similar orchestral colors in Nielsen that I do in Hindemith. I often would hear his name mentioned in the same breath as Sibelius, and I think this explains in part why I had struggled with his music in the past; I was expecting Sibelius but I got Nielsen. They may have been near contemporary in age and both hailed from Nordic lands, but beyond that they are two completely different composers.

Where did his music come from? Who were his influences? Were there others in Denmark writing similar music at the same time? I'm still trying to fit together all the puzzle pieces, if you will.

I think you have answered your own question - "a symphonist like no other".
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 10, 2020, 05:36:01 AM
Has anyone heard Douglas Bostock's recordings with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic? In total they seem to include all the symphonies and concertos plus a lot of smaller works (including possibly the only recording of one early work).

I've seen reviews all over the shop. Some praising it for being strong and rustic, some criticising it for lacking polish.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 10, 2020, 11:00:17 AM
Quote from: Madiel on April 10, 2020, 05:36:01 AM
Has anyone heard Douglas Bostock's recordings with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic? In total they seem to include all the symphonies and concertos plus a lot of smaller works (including possibly the only recording of one early work).

I've seen reviews all over the shop. Some praising it for being strong and rustic, some criticising it for lacking polish.

I have it, and do not recommend it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on April 10, 2020, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2020, 11:00:17 AM
I have it, and do not recommend it.

Why not? Its rustic and lyrical quality isn't that far fetched with Nielsen, and is to me a beneficial contrast to Blomstedt's hyper-efficient reading with the LA symphony orchestra. But my favorites are Oramo and Schønwandt.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on April 10, 2020, 01:58:27 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
I've just began enjoying Nielsen's music in the past week after months of getting nothing out of it. I have the bulk of the Blomstedt/SFS cycle, symphonies 2-5. His music is quite unique, a symphonist like none other I've heard. A composer he reminds me of somewhat is Paul Hindemith, though I couldn't tell you why, other than that I hear the same kind of exacting precision and similar orchestral colors in Nielsen that I do in Hindemith. I often would hear his name mentioned in the same breath as Sibelius, and I think this explains in part why I had struggled with his music in the past; I was expecting Sibelius but I got Nielsen. They may have been near contemporary in age and both hailed from Nordic lands, but beyond that they are two completely different composers.

Where did his music come from? Who were his influences? Were there others in Denmark writing similar music at the same time? I'm still trying to fit together all the puzzle pieces, if you will.

The early pieces seem to owe a lot to an older generation of Nordic composers, especially Gade and Svendsen.  But he seems to have developed beyond those influences fairly quickly, and I too am at a loss to explain where a piece like the 3rd symphony came from (Beethoven perhaps?).  Agree completely too with the complete dissimilarity of Nielsen to Sibelius - not a single bar by either of them could have been written by the other - and the kinship with Hindemith, which I think used to be more remarked on 70 or 80 years ago than it is now.  To my ears, whole pages of Nielsen's later works, especially Commotio, could almost be by Hindemith.  It's difficult to imagine any direct influence - Hindemith was 30 years Nielsen's junior, and only just finding his own voice at the time of Nielsen's death.  In other words, I don't know either.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 10, 2020, 03:22:11 PM
I should correct myself and note that some of Bostock's recordings were with other orchestras.

But all up he's recorded more works than anyone else I think.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 10, 2020, 05:57:57 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
I've just began enjoying Nielsen's music in the past week after months of getting nothing out of it. I have the bulk of the Blomstedt/SFS cycle, symphonies 2-5. His music is quite unique, a symphonist like none other I've heard. A composer he reminds me of somewhat is Paul Hindemith, though I couldn't tell you why, other than that I hear the same kind of exacting precision and similar orchestral colors in Nielsen that I do in Hindemith.

Nielsen's music clicked with me instantly when I heard it the first time: The fourth symphony was played on radio and I was blown away. Helios Overture was another early exposure to Nielsen for me. In that sense Nielsen is similar to Elgar for me. I liked them both instantly the first time I heard their music.

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 07:19:15 AMI often would hear his name mentioned in the same breath as Sibelius, and I think this explains in part why I had struggled with his music in the past; I was expecting Sibelius but I got Nielsen. They may have been near contemporary in age and both hailed from Nordic lands, but beyond that they are two completely different composers.

Sibelius and Nielsen are indeed very different composers.
The former is serious and gray while the latter is joyful, bright and colorful. Nielsen is almost joking with his "crazy" music. You can't say that about Sibelius!

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 21, 2020, 07:19:15 AMWhere did his music come from? Who were his influences? Were there others in Denmark writing similar music at the same time? I'm still trying to fit together all the puzzle pieces, if you will.

Nielsen's music comes from an eccentric mind.  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vers la flamme on April 10, 2020, 07:33:04 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 10, 2020, 05:57:57 PM
Nielsen's music clicked with me instantly when I heard it the first time: The fourth symphony was played on radio and I was blown away. Helios Overture was another early exposure to Nielsen for me. In that sense Nielsen is similar to Elgar for me. I liked them both instantly the first time I heard their music.
The former is serious and gray while the latter is joyful, bright and colorful. Nielsen is almost joking with his "crazy" music. You can't say that about Sibelius!

Nielsen's music comes from an eccentric mind.  ;D

Funny, I didn't like Elgar on first listen either, and I'm still in the process of warming up to his music too.

As for Nielsen, the symphony that really got it all to click for me is No.5. A fascinating work.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 11, 2020, 03:55:06 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 10, 2020, 07:33:04 PM
Funny, I didn't like Elgar on first listen either, and I'm still in the process of warming up to his music too.

As for Nielsen, the symphony that really got it all to click for me is No.5. A fascinating work.

People have expectation and if those expectation aren't met... ...I struggle for long with Mozart for example and still struggle with his operas. Also early romantic era (e.g. Schubert) has been a bit difficult for me. I have learned to enjoy the music, but it has taken years if not decades...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 11, 2020, 04:38:56 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2020, 11:00:17 AM
I have it, and do not recommend it.

+1 - Bostock is a consistently average conductor.  No worse than many but in no way exceptional or revelatory.  Wherever alternative versions of a work exist there will be better options.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 21, 2020, 05:32:18 PM
On Saturday at 8PM Chowder Time, WCRB rebroadcasts a BSO concert including the Nielsen Fifth:  https://www.classicalwcrb.org/#stream/0 (https://www.classicalwcrb.org/#stream/0)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 23, 2020, 05:17:35 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 11, 2020, 04:38:56 AM
+1 - Bostock is a consistently average conductor.  No worse than many but in no way exceptional or revelatory.  Wherever alternative versions of a work exist there will be better options.

I agree generally, but I still think he is better than his reputation. Particularly he has a nice sense of Nielsen's lyrical vein as expressed in the second movement of the Sinfonia Espansiva  e. g.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 23, 2020, 06:26:41 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 11, 2020, 04:38:56 AM
+1 - Bostock is a consistently average conductor.  No worse than many but in no way exceptional or revelatory.  Wherever alternative versions of a work exist there will be better options.

I can certainly agree with this. Bostock's Nielsen is duller than dishwater.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 23, 2020, 02:59:50 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 21, 2020, 05:32:18 PM
On Saturday at 8PM Chowder Time, WCRB rebroadcasts a BSO concert including the Nielsen Fifth:  https://www.classicalwcrb.org/#stream/0 (https://www.classicalwcrb.org/#stream/0)

Also: Pohjola's Daughter and the Elgar vc concerto with Truls Mørk
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on May 23, 2020, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 11, 2020, 04:38:56 AM
+1 - Bostock is a consistently average conductor.  No worse than many but in no way exceptional or revelatory.  Wherever alternative versions of a work exist there will be better options.

I like his Novák CD:
(//)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 24, 2020, 10:55:57 PM
I've listened to several bits of Bostock since I first asked about him here, and... practically everything has been very average.

It feels like the goal was to play all the correct notes and that's it. Really no sense of colour to what I've heard.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 25, 2020, 06:11:46 AM
Quote from: Madiel on May 24, 2020, 10:55:57 PM
I've listened to several bits of Bostock since I first asked about him here, and... practically everything has been very average.

It feels like the goal was to play all the correct notes and that's it. Really no sense of colour to what I've heard.

Precisely right, Madiel. :) Playing the notes but not putting the life into them.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 22, 2020, 06:18:56 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71hW-nbIdWL._SL1050_.jpg)

Listening to something different this time, and how terrific that 'something different' was. The orchestral arrangement made by Bo Holten from Commotio highlights its shapes better than the original organ version. I don't know if it is a passacaglia, but I detected that kind of development there, mostly because there is a serious, rigurous and, at times even pensive way of unfolding following a solid structure. Nielsen like a remarkable contrapuntist.

It is not 100% Nielsen, of course not, but what Holten made is nothing short of interesting.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on August 23, 2020, 04:02:43 AM
Interesting idea, that of orchestrating Commotio. Thanks for sharing this, I'm strongly tempted to give this a listen. Can't say whether the orchestral version offers more clarity of the shapes than the original organ version, but I will say that the performance and above all the acoustics make a huge difference in how clearly the different lines can be heard. For a long time the only recording I had ever heard of this was this one, on LP, and I don't know if it was ever released on CD:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xswAAOSw7I5Tsydp/s-l300.jpg)

I cannot say that I ever had any trouble discerning and following the often labyrinthine counterpoint in this recording. Nielsen said that the work was pure polyphonic music, so clarity of line is really paramount in making the piece work.

Then came the best-known recording, by Elisabeth Westenholz, and frankly I can't see the appeal of this recording at all. The performance may well be authoritative, but the acoustic is so reverberant that the lines are muddied to the point of being impossible to make out in most places. The result is very grand-sounding mush, which IMO is the very opposite of what the work is supposed to be.

I see there are a number of other performances of the original organ version out on record now, and I wonder what they're like...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 23, 2020, 07:40:13 PM
Quote from: Madiel on March 03, 2020, 06:22:58 AM
Any experience of either of these albums? The Blomstedt has had a number of incarnations.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GULw8OgbL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y4nh4u63L._SX466_.jpg)

Both are of some interest for filling gaps in my collection without too much repetition.

EDIT: Also this one, which is not included in the Salonen Nielsen collection with the symphonies.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JHWPVu9oL._SX522_.jpg)
Personally I have enjoyed the Rozhdestvensky CD. Good performances and recording as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 24, 2020, 09:04:57 AM
Quote from: krummholz on August 23, 2020, 04:02:43 AM
Interesting idea, that of orchestrating Commotio. Thanks for sharing this, I'm strongly tempted to give this a listen. Can't say whether the orchestral version offers more clarity of the shapes than the original organ version, but I will say that the performance and above all the acoustics make a huge difference in how clearly the different lines can be heard. For a long time the only recording I had ever heard of this was this one, on LP, and I don't know if it was ever released on CD:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xswAAOSw7I5Tsydp/s-l300.jpg)

I cannot say that I ever had any trouble discerning and following the often labyrinthine counterpoint in this recording. Nielsen said that the work was pure polyphonic music, so clarity of line is really paramount in making the piece work.

Then came the best-known recording, by Elisabeth Westenholz, and frankly I can't see the appeal of this recording at all. The performance may well be authoritative, but the acoustic is so reverberant that the lines are muddied to the point of being impossible to make out in most places. The result is very grand-sounding mush, which IMO is the very opposite of what the work is supposed to be.

I see there are a number of other performances of the original organ version out on record now, and I wonder what they're like...

I haven't found the right performance on organ yet, hence my positive impressions regarding the orchestral arrangement.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 24, 2020, 09:15:07 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 25, 2020, 06:11:46 AM
Precisely right, Madiel. :) Playing the notes but not putting the life into them.

Hurrah!  Somebody else who thinks Bostock is no more than competent.  I have a friend who was in the RLPO during the time of these Nielsen recordings and the general opinion was that as a conductor he didn't get in the way but he didn't offer anything "extra" either........ I think that's called dammed by faint praise!!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on August 24, 2020, 09:33:57 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 24, 2020, 09:04:57 AM
I haven't found the right performance on organ yet, hence my positive impressions regarding the orchestral arrangement.

I just ordered this, from amazon.co.uk -- a bit far, but it doesn't seem to be available over here. Should be interesting -- as far as I've seen so far, reviews are overwhelmingly positive.

BTW in reference to something you said earlier, Commotio isn't a passacaglia. It's a polyphonic fantasia in 4 sections, the 2nd and last being fugal, though Nielsen departs from fugal texture when it suits him, which makes the work no less rigorous and challenging.

Eons ago I bought the score and buried myself in the organ practice rooms at University of Michigan, trying to learn how to play it. I never got beyond the first section (a toccata of sorts), but I studied the piece all the way through and felt I learned a lot from it. It's a great work. I hope a good performance of the original organ version comes out that is well recorded and does justice to Nielsen's counterpoint.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on August 24, 2020, 09:38:38 AM
Quote from: krummholz on August 23, 2020, 04:02:43 AM
Interesting idea, that of orchestrating Commotio. Thanks for sharing this, I'm strongly tempted to give this a listen. Can't say whether the orchestral version offers more clarity of the shapes than the original organ version, but I will say that the performance and above all the acoustics make a huge difference in how clearly the different lines can be heard. For a long time the only recording I had ever heard of this was this one, on LP, and I don't know if it was ever released on CD:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xswAAOSw7I5Tsydp/s-l300.jpg)

I cannot say that I ever had any trouble discerning and following the often labyrinthine counterpoint in this recording. Nielsen said that the work was pure polyphonic music, so clarity of line is really paramount in making the piece work.

Then came the best-known recording, by Elisabeth Westenholz, and frankly I can't see the appeal of this recording at all. The performance may well be authoritative, but the acoustic is so reverberant that the lines are muddied to the point of being impossible to make out in most places. The result is very grand-sounding mush, which IMO is the very opposite of what the work is supposed to be.

I see there are a number of other performances of the original organ version out on record now, and I wonder what they're like...

Agree completely with your admiration for the J E Hansen recording and no, I don't think it ever made it onto CD.  In a sense, there is no "original" version of Commotio, since Nielsen didn't specify any registrations, so it's up to the performer to choose these in order to bring out the clarity of the individual lines.  Another very fine old recording is by Grethe Krogh (sometimes known as Grethe Krogh Christensen) which is available on CD - the Danacord recording says © 2007, but it's much older than that; I used to have it on one of those heavy old LPs from the early days of 33 1/3.  (It's on Youtube.)  Modern players all tend to take it too fast for my taste - Finn Viderø, who played it to Nielsen so presumably knew what he wanted, takes the opening Adagio slower than anyone else (he's also on Youtube and also worth a listen).

And for what it's worth (which isn't much) I really really dislike the Holten orchestration...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on August 24, 2020, 10:44:25 AM
I've not heard Holten's orchestral version, but there's also one by Hans Abrahamsen. Don't think there's an official recording (yet), though there is of Abrahamsen's version of the three late piano pieces.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on August 24, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
Quote from: DaveF on August 24, 2020, 09:38:38 AM
Agree completely with your admiration for the J E Hansen recording and no, I don't think it ever made it onto CD.  In a sense, there is no "original" version of Commotio, since Nielsen didn't specify any registrations, so it's up to the performer to choose these in order to bring out the clarity of the individual lines.  Another very fine old recording is by Grethe Krogh (sometimes known as Grethe Krogh Christensen) which is available on CD - the Danacord recording says © 2007, but it's much older than that; I used to have it on one of those heavy old LPs from the early days of 33 1/3.  (It's on Youtube.)  Modern players all tend to take it too fast for my taste - Finn Viderø, who played it to Nielsen so presumably knew what he wanted, takes the opening Adagio slower than anyone else (he's also on Youtube and also worth a listen).

And for what it's worth (which isn't much) I really really dislike the Holten orchestration...

Thanks for the recommendations! I found the Krogh on YouTube -- there are some places, especially the louder passages, where the ambiance muddies up the sound, but it's light years clearer than the Westenholz. In some parts of the concluding fugue, I felt that Krogh does a better job than Hansen at making the lines crystal clear... and her ritards and accelerandos are very expressive. Overall I like it, though I do think she takes the opening section too fast. Unfortunately that CD is not available on this side of the pond it seems, and it's ridiculously expensive in the UK -- something over £80, which is a non-starter as far as I'm concerned.

I also found the Videro on YouTube but haven't listened to it yet. His performance clocks in at about 2 minutes shorter than Krogh's, so he must take some parts considerably faster than she does. Interesting doing these comparisons... though I no longer have the Hansen, nor the equipment to play anything vinyl.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on August 24, 2020, 02:07:14 PM
The one I listened to on streaming was Kevin Bowyer.

But I barely know organ music so couldn't tell you a personal rating.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on August 24, 2020, 02:37:21 PM
For those who are OK with downloads, you can get the Krogh recording for a dollar on Google Play Music, but you'll have to be quick as the service will be shut down soon.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 24, 2020, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 22, 2020, 06:18:56 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71hW-nbIdWL._SL1050_.jpg)

Listening to something different this time, and how terrific that 'something different' was. The orchestral arrangement made by Bo Holten from Commotio highlights its shapes better than the original organ version. I don't know if it is a passacaglia, but I detected that kind of development there, mostly because there is a serious, rigurous and, at times even pensive way of unfolding following a solid structure. Nielsen like a remarkable contrapuntist.

It is not 100% Nielsen, of course not, but what Holten made is nothing short of interesting.

That's a nice disc.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on August 25, 2020, 04:54:32 AM
Quote from: edward on August 24, 2020, 02:37:21 PM
For those who are OK with downloads, you can get the Krogh recording for a dollar on Google Play Music, but you'll have to be quick as the service will be shut down soon.

Found it, but only in Swahili, and some other language that uses a Cyrillic alphabet... do you have a link to a download page that's in English?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: not edward on August 25, 2020, 05:01:16 AM
Try this: https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=Bx2btyooucixsgthyx6jjoy7t4e&tid=song-Tllmlfoz7epch4rbwesezkd3ae4
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on August 25, 2020, 05:30:48 AM
Quote from: edward on August 25, 2020, 05:01:16 AM
Try this: https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=Bx2btyooucixsgthyx6jjoy7t4e&tid=song-Tllmlfoz7epch4rbwesezkd3ae4

Thanks... I just solved my problem though. The last two characters of the full URL are a language code... changed "sw" to "en" and voila!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 25, 2020, 06:26:04 AM
Quote from: krummholz on August 25, 2020, 05:30:48 AM
Thanks... I just solved my problem though. The last two characters of the full URL are a language code... changed "sw" to "en" and voila!  :)

Well done!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on September 04, 2020, 10:27:38 AM
Some innovative folks in Copenhagen have now opened a restaurant named 'Carl Nielsen' in the house, where the composer stayed in 1906, at 5 Toldbodgade, serving that old, local lunch specialty of 'Smørrebrød' open sandwiches, with a modern twist. Some items are named after works by him, but those names aren't specified on the menu list. They include 'Solen er så Rød, Mor' (a song - tatare & egg) and 'Maskarade' (potatoes etc.).

It's a good idea, I think; we generally need more places celebrating our classical music personalities, besides street names & a few statues. Reviews of the place are good too. Prices aren't in the lower end, however.

https://www.tripadvisor.dk/Restaurant_Review-g189541-d21118082-Reviews-Restaurant_Carl_Nielsen-Copenhagen_Zealand.html
https://restaurantcarlnielsen.dk/carl-nielsen-restaurant/
https://restaurantcarlnielsen.dk/smoerrebroed-i-koebenhavn/
+ FB
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on September 04, 2020, 02:18:30 PM
Prices for food in Copenhagen are never in the lower end!

Edit: Especially not in that area. I just looked on a map. Near Nyhavn?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 04, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
What an imaginative idea for a restaurant! I hope I will eat there some day. I wish there was a dish with the name "The Inextinguishable".  :P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 06, 2020, 05:26:41 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 04, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
What an imaginative idea for a restaurant! I hope I will eat there some day. I wish there was a dish with the name "The Inextinguishable".  :P

I imagine that would be the world's hottest curry........
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 06, 2020, 06:20:30 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 06, 2020, 05:26:41 AM
I imagine that would be the world's hottest curry........

Oh yes! And very nourishing. I would eat it with immense pleasure.  ;D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on September 15, 2020, 04:04:16 AM
This finally arrived yesterday... so far I've only listened to Commotio, but I find much to admire in Holten's orchestration. It is very skillful, is effective at clarifying the counterpoint in most places, and is sometimes rather Nielsen-like, but always interesting. A couple of the tuttis do sound a bit cheesy to my ears, but overall he gets a lot of mileage from constantly changing instrumental combinations and colours. The performance is quite expressive, something CN might not have approved of in this work, but personally I feel it's a valid approach: this is a great work that can withstand more than one kind of interpretation.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81yxg0yLq7L._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 15, 2020, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: krummholz on September 15, 2020, 04:04:16 AM
This finally arrived yesterday... so far I've only listened to Commotio, but I find much to admire in Holten's orchestration. It is very skillful, is effective at clarifying the counterpoint in most places, and is sometimes rather Nielsen-like, but always interesting. A couple of the tuttis do sound a bit cheesy to my ears, but overall he gets a lot of mileage from constantly changing instrumental combinations and colours. The performance is quite expressive, something CN might not have approved of in this work, but personally I feel it's a valid approach: this is a great work that can withstand more than one kind of interpretation.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81yxg0yLq7L._SS500_.jpg)

Very nice! I did know I'm not gonna be the only one to find this arrangement stupendous.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on September 16, 2020, 07:28:38 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 15, 2020, 04:27:15 PM
Very nice! I did know I'm not gonna be the only one to find this arrangement stupendous.

I expect not! Personally I wouldn't call it stupendous, but still a keeper, definitely.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on January 05, 2021, 06:07:10 AM
I mentioned over on the Unpopular Opinions thread that I'm putting together a review of the recorded legacy of the Clarinet Concerto, which will involve listening to as many as possible of the 33 ??? recordings I have managed to identify.  Spotify and YouTube between them should cover much of the ground, together with the dozen in my own library, but there is one of which I was previously ignorant and which only appears to be available by mail-order from Denmark for about £24.  It's particularly interesting as being by the second Danish player to record it, Arne Møller, with the Tivoli Symphony Orchestra conducted by Eifried Eckeart Hansen in 1965.  (I'm assuming there that Ib Eriksson, who recorded it twice in 1954, was a Dane, although information on his life seems to be non-existent.)  The current release is on Classico Class CD 514-15.  Does anyone know of an online source for listening, or perhaps possess the disc and could express an opinion?  Thanks.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on January 05, 2021, 06:42:02 AM
That survey will be interesting ... 

Ib Eriksson (1920-1978) is mentioned in a couple of books of mine and he was indeed Danish, born in Copenhagen and becoming a member of the Danish Radio Symphony Orchestra in 1948. He was a pupil of the clarinetist Aage Oxenvad, and others. He also worked with the violinist and conductor Emil Telmanyi, and as a conductor himself, mainly of a non-professional "Amateurs' Symphony Orchestra" here. He left the radio symphony orchestra in 1976, and was replaced by Niels Thomsen.
As a reminder, Eriksson's recording of the Nielsen concerto is with Wöldike, on Decca mono.

The 2CD you mention with Arne Møller is not very common here, I've only noticed it once, recently ...
(this one, not cheap: https://plade-klassikeren.dk/da/nielsen-carl-cd/915111-nielsen-klarinetkoncert-bl%C3%A6serkvintet-mozart-klarinetkvintet-arne-m%C3%B8ller-det-kgl-kapel-2-cd-classico.html )
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on January 05, 2021, 06:47:18 AM
Quote from: DaveF on January 05, 2021, 06:07:10 AM
I mentioned over on the Unpopular Opinions thread that I'm putting together a review of the recorded legacy of the Clarinet Concerto, which will involve listening to as many as possible of the 33 ??? recordings I have managed to identify.  Spotify and YouTube between them should cover much of the ground, together with the dozen in my own library, but there is one of which I was previously ignorant and which only appears to be available by mail-order from Denmark for about £24.  It's particularly interesting as being by the second Danish player to record it, Arne Møller, with the Tivoli Symphony Orchestra conducted by Eifried Eckeart Hansen in 1965.  (I'm assuming there that Ib Eriksson, who recorded it twice in 1954, was a Dane, although information on his life seems to be non-existent.)  The current release is on Classico Class CD 514-15.  Does anyone know of an online source for listening, or perhaps possess the disc and could express an opinion?  Thanks.

As much as I love Nielsen's Clarinet Concerto, I couldn't imagine putting myself through all of those recordings of it. It would be an interesting survey nevertheless and I'm curious to read your opinion of each performance and which ones you prefer over others.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on January 05, 2021, 11:23:19 AM
Thanks, MT and MI both.  I don't imagine I'll be listening to every minute of all 33 recordings, even supposing I can get hold of them all.  Some will probably rule themselves out fairly quickly, some I know already and have a good idea where they stand in my ranking.  Still, interesting discoveries await, I'm sure.

Fascinating information about Eriksson - sad that he died relatively young.  An Oxenvad pupil, too, so perhaps his performances are as close as we can get to the original.  There are in fact two separate recordings, although I've never read a review that acknowledges this.  They are both here: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=nielsen%20concerto%20ib%20eriksson - the first is a live performance, the second, which takes a minute and a half longer, a studio recording.  The second is preferable in every way - it's far from being note-perfect, but is a great improvement on the first.

Unless you know different, MT, these were the only solo recordings he made - certainly the only available ones - although he doubtless appears on many DRSO recordings (he is surely the principal clarinettist on Jespersen's account of the Flute Concerto, again with Wöldike conducting).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on January 05, 2021, 11:48:43 AM
Thank you, good to have these things sorted out ... I don't know of other Eriksson recordings, but will check it out a bit. I've accumulated 10 recordings of the concerto, including Eriksson/Wöldike studio, but don't know them in detail. Drucker's is the one I heard most, but I've noticed other good ones too in my collection.

Oxenvad can of course be heard in old Nielsen chamber music recordings - the Wind Quintet, and the Serenata ...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on January 05, 2021, 12:24:49 PM
Quote from: MusicTurner on January 05, 2021, 11:48:43 AM
Drucker's is the one I heard most, but I've noticed other good ones too in my collection.

Oxenvad can of course be heard in old Nielsen chamber music recordings - the Wind Quintet, and the Serenata ...

Drucker and Bernstein are superb, agreed, and probably near the top of my eventual list.  I think Drucker was the first soloist who really could play all the notes, even at the tempos they choose (his recording is one of the fastest).  It's just a shame that Lenny feels he has to pull those tempi around where there's no justification in the score.  This isn't Mahler.

Yes, I have the disc with Oxenvad's recordings, which also includes Cahuzac's of the concerto.  That one will be slightly further down the list...
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 10, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
A recent expression of casual scorn for the piece set me to re-listen to the Sixth Symphony. I find it brilliant: fearless, quirky, wilful and sure-footed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Irons on April 12, 2021, 01:17:06 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
A recent expression of casual scorn for the piece set me to re-listen to the Sixth Symphony. I find it brilliant: fearless, quirky, wilful and sure-footed.

+1
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on April 12, 2021, 12:58:09 PM
Quote from: DaveF on January 05, 2021, 06:07:10 AM
I mentioned over on the Unpopular Opinions thread ....

Where's that? I should spend most of my time there.  :D
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 12, 2021, 03:20:56 PM
Quote from: Irons on April 12, 2021, 01:17:06 AM
+1

+2
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on April 12, 2021, 06:06:02 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
A recent expression of casual scorn for the piece set me to re-listen to the Sixth Symphony. I find it brilliant: fearless, quirky, wilful and sure-footed.

Every liner note on the 6th ever has to say something about it being "problematic".  I just ignore this.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 12, 2021, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 10, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
A recent expression of casual scorn for the piece set me to re-listen to the Sixth Symphony. I find it brilliant: fearless, quirky, wilful and sure-footed.

Yep, as I stated in the 'Listening' thread, I find it one of his best symphonies. I should revisit it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DavidW on April 13, 2021, 06:16:24 AM
I never knew that the sixth was anything but well received!  Well I guess that is what I get for not reading liner notes.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: 71 dB on April 13, 2021, 12:59:33 PM
Quote from: Daverz on April 12, 2021, 06:06:02 PM
Every liner note on the 6th ever has to say something about it being "problematic".  I just ignore this.

It WAS "problematic" the same way Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring was.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Irons on April 13, 2021, 01:13:21 PM
Quote from: DavidW on April 13, 2021, 06:16:24 AM
I never knew that the sixth was anything but well received!  Well I guess that is what I get for not reading liner notes.

Critics often describe it as "quirky" and "problematic". The 6th holds a special place and Ormandy's is the best recording I have heard.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 13, 2021, 01:14:21 PM
Tying "problematic" in with "quirky" is problematic.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Irons on April 14, 2021, 12:04:14 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 13, 2021, 01:14:21 PM
Tying "problematic" in with "quirky" is problematic.

Or quirky, even. ;)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on April 14, 2021, 06:49:56 AM
Based on availability and price combined, I'm trying to narrow down to two symphony cycle sets (both highly recommended by Hurwitz), but also want others' thoughts:

Kuchar - Janacek Philharmonic - Brilliant Classics
Ole Schmidt - London Symphony Orchestra - Alto
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 14, 2021, 06:56:38 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on April 14, 2021, 06:49:56 AM
Based on availability and price combined, I'm trying to narrow down to two symphony cycle sets (both highly recommended by Hurwitz), but also want others' thoughts:

Kuchar - Janacek Philharmonic - Brilliant Classics
Ole Schmidt - London Symphony Orchestra - Alto

Good choices that happen to be my favorites (along with Oramo).

Sarge
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on April 14, 2021, 07:39:15 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on April 14, 2021, 06:49:56 AM
Based on availability and price combined, I'm trying to narrow down to two symphony cycle sets (both highly recommended by Hurwitz), but also want others' thoughts:

Kuchar - Janacek Philharmonic - Brilliant Classics
Ole Schmidt - London Symphony Orchestra - Alto

Kuchar is very fine is spite of the low price. Schmidt's set was recorded in a very few days. I'd supplement Kuchar with Bernstein in no.5 (no.3 usually comes along) and maybe then later with other recordings.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on April 14, 2021, 08:11:33 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on April 14, 2021, 06:49:56 AM
Based on availability and price combined, I'm trying to narrow down to two symphony cycle sets (both highly recommended by Hurwitz), but also want others' thoughts:

Kuchar - Janacek Philharmonic - Brilliant Classics
Ole Schmidt - London Symphony Orchestra - Alto

I would say the "safest" (not meaning unexciting, just generally reliable) is Blomstedt with the San Francisco Symphony.  I wouldn't want to be without Schmidt as it was the first ever complete cycle, I think - I had the LPs back in the late 1970s.  Mixed feelings about Kuchar - I like him especially in the earlier symphonies, but couldn't live with his no.6 and the uncorrected wrong note in the bassoon theme in the finale.  (Yes, I know it's half a second in a 35-minute symphony, but I sit and wait for it from bar 1.  I'm a music editor and librarian, which perhaps explains it.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on April 14, 2021, 08:56:26 AM
Thanks for the feedback, folks.  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 14, 2021, 08:59:28 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on April 14, 2021, 06:49:56 AM
Based on availability and price combined, I'm trying to narrow down to two symphony cycle sets (both highly recommended by Hurwitz), but also want others' thoughts:

Kuchar - Janacek Philharmonic - Brilliant Classics
Ole Schmidt - London Symphony Orchestra - Alto

Neither. I think they're both poorly performed cycles, tbh. What Nielsen symphony cycles do you already own, Ray?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on April 14, 2021, 09:08:31 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 14, 2021, 08:59:28 AM
Neither. I think they're both poorly performed cycles, tbh. What Nielsen symphony cycles do you already own, Ray?

I only own the Bostock/Royal Liverpool
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 14, 2021, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on April 14, 2021, 09:08:31 AM
I only own the Bostock/Royal Liverpool

Yikes! :o Remedy that with Blomstedt/SFSO or Gilbert/NYPO immediately! In fact, I'll send you a PM, so keep a lookout for a new message. :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on April 14, 2021, 09:22:26 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 14, 2021, 09:15:03 AM
Yikes! :o Remedy that with Blomstedt/SFSO or Gilbert/NYPO immediately! In fact, I'll send you a PM, so keep a lookout for a new message. :)

The reason I got the Bostock set, was because it was my first exposure to Nielsen's music, and it was a very affordable 10 disc box set of music that included other works by Nielsen, ranging from the symphonies, concertos, piano music and some vocal music.  :)  That was a number of years ago, at least 5 or 6 years.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on April 14, 2021, 09:43:51 AM
Of course, budget releases have their merits, & you've been introduced to this music & got to know it. There's nothing disastrous in that, and besides, the recordings first heard will often grow a bit on you, even for sentimental reasons, no matter what. In the case of Bostock, he premiered some new editions and forgotten works too. But I'd agree that performance-wise, there is a good deal of more idiomatic stuff out there. Still, identifying differences between recordings is a voyage of discovery - and a quality - in itself.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 14, 2021, 09:59:12 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on April 14, 2021, 09:22:26 AM
The reason I got the Bostock set, was because it was my first exposure to Nielsen's music, and it was a very affordable 10 disc box set of music that included other works by Nielsen, ranging from the symphonies, concertos, piano music and some vocal music.  :)  That was a number of years ago, at least 5 or 6 years.

Sure, I certainly understand that and can sympathize. Anyway, there's so much more richness to be found in this music and, thankfully, there are many different cycles to choose from.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 15, 2021, 03:35:14 AM
Yeah. Um, Bostock is... not good.

I have the Naxos/Da Capo set (it's been issued on both labels) by Schønwandt, and I like it very much. As do quite a lot of other people, though I note that there are also people who aren't enthusiastic about it. If you want your Nielsen to be full throttle it won't appeal, whereas if you want more of a sense of shape and structure it's excellent in my view.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on April 15, 2021, 10:08:22 AM
If we are talking symphony cycles again, I'll put in a word for Oramo, though it's on 3 separate discs and not cheap.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on April 16, 2021, 08:39:24 AM
Quote from: Madiel on April 15, 2021, 03:35:14 AM
Yeah. Um, Bostock is... not good.

I have the Naxos/Da Capo set (it's been issued on both labels) by Schønwandt, and I like it very much. As do quite a lot of other people, though I note that there are also people who aren't enthusiastic about it. If you want your Nielsen to be full throttle it won't appeal, whereas if you want more of a sense of shape and structure it's excellent in my view.

I suppose you would call Blomstedt/SFSO full throttle? This kind of super-efficient music making doesn't appeal to me. I don't think it matches Nielsens national style. Instead I prefer Oramo and Schønwandt and also Thomas Jensen. BTW I don't think Bostock is that bad, even if his interpretations lack some punch.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 16, 2021, 02:43:28 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 16, 2021, 08:39:24 AM
I suppose you would call Blomstedt/SFSO full throttle? This kind of super-efficient music making doesn't appeal to me. I don't think it matches Nielsens national style. Instead I prefer Oramo and Schønwandt and also Thomas Jensen. BTW I don't think Bostock is that bad, even if his interpretations lack some punch.

I don't know the Blomstedt that well, I only briefly sampled it and from that memory I think that yes, it's in that full throttle style. Certainly I remember reading an article where the author lamented the tendency to recommend the Blomstedt (one symphony in particular being described in the way that we're talking) and saying that Schønwandt was far more appropriate.

And from what I can remember I made comparisons using iTunes samples and could hear how some versions were just constant momentum, and Schønwandt had much better light and shade.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 16, 2021, 03:02:40 PM
I actually refound the article I was thinking of. https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blogs/article/re-thinking-nielsen-s-centennial-symphony
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on April 16, 2021, 03:56:32 PM
Quote from: Madiel on April 16, 2021, 03:02:40 PM
I actually refound the article I was thinking of. https://www.gramophone.co.uk/blogs/article/re-thinking-nielsen-s-centennial-symphony

Thanks, most interesting.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 16, 2021, 08:05:27 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 16, 2021, 08:39:24 AM
I suppose you would call Blomstedt/SFSO full throttle? This kind of super-efficient music making doesn't appeal to me. I don't think it matches Nielsens national style. Instead I prefer Oramo and Schønwandt and also Thomas Jensen. BTW I don't think Bostock is that bad, even if his interpretations lack some punch.

To play the contrarian, I do believe Blomstedt gets Nielsen and he conducts this music magnificently. For me, Nielsen is a composer that needs forward momentum in the music. It's almost like trying to capture a lightning bolt in a jar --- it won't happen, but I love the conductors who really 'go for it'. Bernstein was another that understood the composer, IMHO. His performances of the 3rd and 5th symphonies are revelatory or, at least, they were for me. His 3rd is especially momentous in that he conducted the Royal Danish Orchestra on their home turf. Basically, he showed up and said, through the music, now this is how Nielsen should be conducted and the Danes agreed.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 16, 2021, 08:57:42 PM
There's no question that Nielsen needs forward momentum. The issue to me is some conductors can act as if that's all he needs.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 16, 2021, 08:59:54 PM
Quote from: Madiel on April 16, 2021, 08:57:42 PM
There's no question that Nielsen needs forward momentum. The issue to me is some conductors can act as if that's all he needs.

And even here, I also think Blomstedt and Bernstein find the beauty in Nielsen, too. I agree that he's not all lightning flashes and pedal-to-the-metal.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on April 16, 2021, 09:09:30 PM
Re pedal to the metal: Anybody up for Horenstein's No 5?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on April 16, 2021, 09:11:06 PM
Quote from: The new erato on April 16, 2021, 09:09:30 PM
Re pedal to the metal: Anybody up for Horenstein's No 5?

No! I've had all the Nielsen I can take tonight. :P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Biffo on April 17, 2021, 05:27:06 AM
Quote from: The new erato on April 16, 2021, 09:09:30 PM
Re pedal to the metal: Anybody up for Horenstein's No 5?

My all-time favourite
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: The new erato on April 17, 2021, 06:21:06 AM
Probably mine as well. Available on youtube, I have the LP....... :P
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Biffo on April 17, 2021, 06:44:33 AM
Quote from: The new erato on April 17, 2021, 06:21:06 AM
Probably mine as well. Available on youtube, I have the LP....... :P

I also have the LP. I replaced it with the CD which developed the dreaded bronzing.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on April 18, 2021, 08:52:28 AM
I've enjoyed a well-restored little film showing street scenes and tram rides through Copenhagen in 1906 - that is, between Nielsen's 2nd and 3rd Symphonies, and around the premiere of the successful opera "Maskarade" (in November 1906).

It's nice seeing how, besides the absence of cars, a lot of the scenery is the same, including the architecture. Also amusing, how people are fascinated by the filming, and play a bit of jolly theatre in front of the cameraman. Though not focused on inequality, and often showing the posh and modern side of the city, it does include street vendors and a brawdy street fight ...

There's also a part of it that has been supplied with good colours - almost 2 minutes:
https://twitter.com/Kfortuit/status/1383789976949723146

The total version, almost 8 minutes:
https://filmcentralen.dk/museum/danmark-paa-film/film/kobenhavn-paa-kryds-og-tvaers-1906



Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 24, 2021, 06:32:42 AM
Revisiting 3 Nielsen performances by conductors who - as far as I know - only commercially recorded one symphony each.  Such a shame - these are compelling versions all!

(https://img.discogs.com/q7hPnyDN6h_n94-1cnMUx7U1kFo=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-9367111-1479334510-9321.jpeg.jpg)

Previn's No.1 & Martinon's No.4 are both excellent - dynamic and exciting.  The Martinon is also coupled with Morton Gould's No.2 - another fine performance.....

(https://img.discogs.com/YsGILIgj0wwwUiSLmeaRR1S_m0I=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-8564093-1464157056-2619.jpeg.jpg)

the Gould is also coupled here with Goodman's Clarinet Concerto which I seem to remember is notable for the fact that Goodman doesn't play all the notes(!)  Is this true?  Is it worth a listen?

(https://img.discogs.com/yHLwUXgh3t2lgwoAnDV7jcY4znQ=/fit-in/500x497/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10867399-1505659427-6874.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on April 24, 2021, 04:14:49 PM
Trying to work out if that last cover is circling something significant in Copenhagen or (my current theory) a completely random waterway...

I don't remember anything musical in that spot.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on April 24, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 24, 2021, 06:32:42 AM
the Gould is also coupled here with Goodman's Clarinet Concerto which I seem to remember is notable for the fact that Goodman doesn't play all the notes(!)  Is this true?  Is it worth a listen?

It's an infamous "party record".
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on April 25, 2021, 12:56:54 AM
Been enjoying this fine performance of the 5th Symphony (Danish RSO/Kubelik):
(//)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on April 25, 2021, 01:57:31 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on April 24, 2021, 06:32:42 AM
the Gould is also coupled here with Goodman's Clarinet Concerto which I seem to remember is notable for the fact that Goodman doesn't play all the notes(!)  Is this true?  Is it worth a listen?

It's not so much that he doesn't play the notes as that he's technically incapable of playing them at the speed Nielsen asks.  His performance is 4 minutes longer than anyone else's, which in a piece lasting under 25 minutes (well, except in Goodman's hands) is significant.  Some passages - the notorious lead-in to the second big solo cadenza, for example - are taken about half-speed.  I think the story is that Goodman didn't really bother to practice, being confident that he could just turn up and play.  But yes, worth a listen - he's quite good in the slower sections, even if his cushioned, vibrato-rich sound is probably a world away from the shrieking wildness Nielsen had in mind.  It's especially interesting to follow it immediately with the Stanley Drucker/Bernstein version, which is how the piece really goes.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on April 25, 2021, 02:48:10 PM
Quote from: DaveF on April 25, 2021, 01:57:31 AM
It's not so much that he doesn't play the notes as that he's technically incapable of playing them at the speed Nielsen asks.  His performance is 4 minutes longer than anyone else's, which in a piece lasting under 25 minutes (well, except in Goodman's hands) is significant.  Some passages - the notorious lead-in to the second big solo cadenza, for example - are taken about half-speed.  I think the story is that Goodman didn't really bother to practice, being confident that he could just turn up and play.  But yes, worth a listen - he's quite good in the slower sections, even if his cushioned, vibrato-rich sound is probably a world away from the shrieking wildness Nielsen had in mind.  It's especially interesting to follow it immediately with the Stanley Drucker/Bernstein version, which is how the piece really goes.

Thankyou for those insights.  I have the Drucker so I will do just as you suggest......
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on May 04, 2021, 07:33:29 AM
First listen to these recordings.  Marvelous!  A generous gift to me from John (MI).  Thank you!  ;)

Nielsen

Violin Concerto
Flute Concerto
Clarinet Concerto


Nikolaj Znaider, violin
Robert Langevin, flute
Anthony McGill, clarinet

Alan Gilbert, conducting
New York Philharmonic

DACAPO

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JmrSN%2B2LL._SL1200_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on May 04, 2021, 04:58:43 PM
Quote from: DavidW on April 13, 2021, 06:16:24 AM
I never knew that the sixth was anything but well received!  Well I guess that is what I get for not reading liner notes.
Actually, some of the most scathing criticism of the 6th that I've ever read came from the pen (typewriter?) of Robert Simpson, who in the original edition of his book Carl Nielsen, Symphonist accused Nielsen in that work of descending from Objectivity to Subjectivity, that it was a singular product of the depression that afflicted him around the time he turned 60, and felt the Humoreske 2nd movement couldn't have taken much strength to write, or words to that effect. Simpson completely revised his opinion of the work years later, but I know that my first hearings of the work were influenced by having read Simpson's original account, and I had a hard time really coming to terms with it for a long time.

Today I find the first movement brilliant and the work as a whole, as Karl said "brilliant and quirky". VERY quirky. I still prefer the 5th, but the 6th contains music I wouldn't want to be without. I guess overall, I'm closer today to Simpson's later thoughts on the piece, but I still find it difficult.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 04, 2021, 05:21:09 PM
Quote from: krummholz on May 04, 2021, 04:58:43 PM
Actually, some of the most scathing criticism of the 6th that I've ever read came from the pen (typewriter?) of Robert Simpson, who in the original edition of his book Carl Nielsen, Symphonist accused Nielsen in that work of descending from Objectivity to Subjectivity, that it was a singular product of the depression that afflicted him around the time he turned 60, and felt the Humoreske 2nd movement couldn't have taken much strength to write, or words to that effect. Simpson completely revised his opinion of the work years later, but I know that my first hearings of the work were influenced by having read Simpson's original account, and I had a hard time really coming to terms with it for a long time.

Today I find the first movement brilliant and the work as a whole, as Karl said "brilliant and quirky". VERY quirky. I still prefer the 5th, but the 6th contains music I wouldn't want to be without. I guess overall, I'm closer today to Simpson's later thoughts on the piece, but I still find it difficult.

When I first heard Nielsen's 6th, I thought the composer mustn't suffered a great blow to the head which left him in a completely altered state of mind. I thought "This couldn't be the same composer of the previous symphonies...could it?" What makes the 6th great is that he tried something new and it worked. I think Robert Simpson was incorrect in his initial statements regarding this symphony. Also, that whole idea he concocted of objectivity vs. subjectivity is a load of BS. Intellectual analysis aside, you either respond to the music or you don't. Of course, opinions can change as they did for Simpson, but sometimes we're guilty of speaking before thinking. I find this symphony to be a breath of fresh air and I'm glad he had enough time to compose it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on May 04, 2021, 06:01:06 PM
I find it fascinating that Simpson misunderstood the Sixth in the first edition of his book. The second edition of the book wasn't published until 1979, and I haven't been able to find out exactly when Simpson came to his revised opinion. However it's easy to see in Simpson's own work that Nielsen's Sixth fascinated him: the Fourth Symphony (1970-72) has several passages referring, and the opening of the Eighth Symphony (1981, after his revised opinion was published) is almost a paraphrase of the opening of the Nielsen Sixth (the Eighth goes a different way from Nielsen's work).
I've always liked the Sixth and never thought that it was out of place in Nielsen's work.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 04, 2021, 07:30:35 PM
It's not hard to understand why people can find the 6th to be a stumbling block. Nielsen is sometimes presented as being a composer who is all about power and force and momentum, and the 6th doesn't fit that mindset.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on May 05, 2021, 06:43:39 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on May 04, 2021, 06:01:06 PM
I find it fascinating that Simpson misunderstood the Sixth in the first edition of his book. The second edition of the book wasn't published until 1979, and I haven't been able to find out exactly when Simpson came to his revised opinion. However it's easy to see in Simpson's own work that Nielsen's Sixth fascinated him: the Fourth Symphony (1970-72) has several passages referring, and the opening of the Eighth Symphony (1981, after his revised opinion was published) is almost a paraphrase of the opening of the Nielsen Sixth (the Eighth goes a different way from Nielsen's work).
I've always liked the Sixth and never thought that it was out of place in Nielsen's work.
Hmm... interesting thought about Simpson's 8th. I've always felt the musical inspiration might have been the opening of Brian's 28th, but it could easily have been the Sinfonia Semplice as well. All three works begin simply, even innocently, and then leave innocence far behind, never to return.

I don't think Nielsen's 6th is out of place, I just find it the most difficult of his symphonies to relate to on an emotional level. My guess is that was likely Simpson's problem with the work as well. It refuses to be pinned down - to me it comes across as the most ambiguous of Nielsen's symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on May 10, 2021, 04:52:33 AM
First listen to this recording.  A generous gift to me from John (MI).  Thank you!  ;)

Nielsen

Symphony No. 1, CNW 25


Alan Gilbert, conducting
New York Philharmonic

DACAPO

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JmrSN%2B2LL._SL1200_.jpg)

An energetic, emphatic performance!  :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Brahmsian on May 12, 2021, 08:17:41 AM
Re-listening again to the first two symphonies!

Nielsen

Symphony No. 1, CNW 25
Symphony No. 2, CNW 26


Alan Gilbert, conducting
New York Philharmonic

DACAPO

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JmrSN%2B2LL._SL1200_.jpg)

Enjoying these performances so far.  After these repeat performances, I'll move on to a multiple listen to Symphony No. 3
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 12, 2021, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on May 12, 2021, 08:17:41 AM
Re-listening again to the first two symphonies!

Nielsen

Symphony No. 1, CNW 25
Symphony No. 2, CNW 26

First I've seen that cataloguing, interesting.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 13, 2021, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Daverz on April 24, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
It's an infamous "party record".

On one hand there is the natural curiosity.  But for me it is overruled by "Do I really want to hear the train-wreck of a well-beloved piece, just because a jazz legend is responsible for the wreckage?"
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on May 13, 2021, 06:51:17 PM
Quote from: OrchestralNut on May 12, 2021, 08:17:41 AM
Re-listening again to the first two symphonies!

Nielsen

Symphony No. 1, CNW 25
Symphony No. 2, CNW 26


Alan Gilbert, conducting
New York Philharmonic

DACAPO

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JmrSN%2B2LL._SL1200_.jpg)

Enjoying these performances so far.  After these repeat performances, I'll move on to a multiple listen to Symphony No. 3

Always a good idea, Ray. Right now, I'm stuck on the Schwarzkopf/Szell recording of Strauss' Vier Letzte Lieder and other orchesterlieder.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on May 13, 2021, 09:23:46 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 13, 2021, 04:55:40 PM
On one hand there is the natural curiosity.  But for me it is overruled by "Do I really want to hear the train-wreck of a well-beloved piece, just because a jazz legend is responsible for the wreckage?"

Yes, and said Jazz Legend even made some nice classical recordings, so why dwell on this one bad miscalculation.  I only have this because it's coupled with Gould's recording Symphony No. 2.  I don't think I ever listened to it.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 13, 2021, 11:49:24 PM

(https://img.discogs.com/yHLwUXgh3t2lgwoAnDV7jcY4znQ=/fit-in/500x497/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10867399-1505659427-6874.jpeg.jpg)

Quote from: Madiel on April 24, 2021, 04:14:49 PM
Trying to work out if that last cover is circling something significant in Copenhagen or (my current theory) a completely random waterway...

I don't remember anything musical in that spot.

Nor do I. But if you can find out, I would like to hear.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on May 14, 2021, 02:10:50 AM
Nielsen's address in Copenhagen from 1915-31 was at Materialgården at Frederiksholms Kanal = the circle spot on the map. Originally because his wife Anne Marie, a sculptor, got access to those premises as a flat + studio.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 14, 2021, 03:05:39 AM
Quote from: MusicTurner on May 14, 2021, 02:10:50 AM
Nielsen's adress in Copenhagen from 1915-31 was at Materialgården at Frederiksholms Kanal = the circle spot on the map. Originally because his wife Anne Marie, a sculptor, got access to those premises as a flat + studio.

Oh right, thank you!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 14, 2021, 03:07:11 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 12, 2021, 09:21:15 AM
First I've seen that cataloguing, interesting.

As in the first time you've seen the CNW numbers?

Yeah, it's kind of the new standard thing apparently. It's one of those catalogues where it's chronological within a category, which I don't entirely love. Although it does end up highlighting that songs represent a huge amount of Nielsen's output.

http://www5.kb.dk/dcm/cnw/navigation.xq
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on May 14, 2021, 04:10:53 AM
Quote from: Madiel on May 14, 2021, 03:05:39 AM
Oh right, thank you!

+ 1
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on May 14, 2021, 05:14:26 AM
Quote from: Madiel on May 14, 2021, 03:07:11 AM
As in the first time you've seen the CNW numbers?

Yeah, it's kind of the new standard thing apparently. It's one of those catalogues where it's chronological within a category, which I don't entirely love. Although it does end up highlighting that songs represent a huge amount of Nielsen's output.

http://www5.kb.dk/dcm/cnw/navigation.xq

But not, apparently, otherwise chronological. That's a pity. Given how chaotic Nielsen's opus numbers are, we really need a purely chronological catalogue of his works - or at least one that is more nearly chronological, something like the Meta numbers for Holmboe's oeuvre.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 14, 2021, 05:22:03 AM
Quote from: krummholz on May 14, 2021, 05:14:26 AM
But not, apparently, otherwise chronological. That's a pity. Given how chaotic Nielsen's opus numbers are, we really need a purely chronological catalogue of his works - or at least one that is more nearly chronological, something like the Meta numbers for Holmboe's oeuvre.

Yes. I'm not sure why the FS numbers didn't stick as I understood them to be closer to a chronological list.

But there are other composers where a similar approach is taken, for example the MWV numbers for Mendelssohn, the JW numbers for Janacek. I don't really understand why some musicologists like working this way, separating out genres. Possibly it's when they're not confident they can get a chronological list for all works? So they split it up into more manageable chunks. I don't know.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on May 14, 2021, 06:46:51 AM
Quote from: Madiel on May 14, 2021, 03:07:11 AM
As in the first time you've seen the CNW numbers?
Aye.



QuoteYeah, it's kind of the new standard thing apparently. It's one of those catalogues where it's chronological within a category, which I don't entirely love. Although it does end up highlighting that songs represent a huge amount of Nielsen's output.

http://www5.kb.dk/dcm/cnw/navigation.xq

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 01, 2021, 06:11:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/YU-ybbl7fdw

A performance of the Symphony No. 3 arranged for two pianos by the composer. It's very nice to hear it as a curiosity, but it's not something necessarily essential we were missing.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on September 12, 2021, 06:08:14 AM
There's a recent Presto Music Podcast with Andrew Mellor talking about Nielsen:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/4220--presto-music-podcast-episode-21-a-great-dane-andrew-mellor-on-carl-nielsen (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/articles/4220--presto-music-podcast-episode-21-a-great-dane-andrew-mellor-on-carl-nielsen)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on September 12, 2021, 10:59:06 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 01, 2021, 06:11:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/YU-ybbl7fdw

A performance of the Symphony No. 3 arranged for two pianos by the composer. It's very nice to hear it as a curiosity, but it's not something necessarily essential we were missing.

Thanks, Very interesting.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 13, 2021, 09:52:46 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 12, 2021, 10:59:06 AM
Thanks, Very interesting.

My pleasure, Karl!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on November 21, 2021, 07:29:09 PM
A stellar performance of Nielsen's Flute Concerto. What a piece. It's interesting to notice how Nielsen was becoming for that time. The orchestration of this concerto is rather sober, benefiting low registers (2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns, 1 trombone, timpani and strings). Regarding the main melody of the 1st movement, I can claim that Nielsen knew how to write a good tune!

https://www.youtube.com/v/JtGvRXUWuu8
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on November 21, 2021, 07:38:42 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 21, 2021, 07:29:09 PM
A stellar performance of Nielsen's Flute Concerto. What a piece. It's interesting to notice how Nielsen was becoming for that time. The orchestration of this concerto is rather sober, benefiting low registers (2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns, 1 trombone, timpani and strings). Regarding the main melody of the 1st movement, I can claim that Nielsen knew how to write a good tune!

https://www.youtube.com/v/JtGvRXUWuu8

The Flute Concerto is a masterpiece, but, then again, so is the Clarinet Concerto. I'm still warming up to the Violin Concerto, but I do think it's a fine work. It seems writing for wind instruments was more of a Nielsen specialty.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on November 22, 2021, 12:43:00 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 21, 2021, 07:38:42 PM
The Flute Concerto is a masterpiece, but, then again, so is the Clarinet Concerto. I'm still warming up to the Violin Concerto, but I do think it's a fine work. It seems writing for wind instruments was more of a Nielsen specialty.

Most definitely, John. It's a shame Nielsen couldn't write the other concertos for oboe, bassoon and horn respectively as he had intended.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mirror Image on November 22, 2021, 12:48:14 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 22, 2021, 12:43:00 PM
Most definitely, John. It's a shame Nielsen couldn't write the other concertos for oboe, bassoon and horn respectively as he had intended.

Indeed. The same I could say about Debussy's unfinished sonatas for various instruments. :'(
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on November 22, 2021, 12:57:40 PM
If I ever have occasion to compose a Bassoon Concerto, I'll be thinking, What would Carl have done?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on November 22, 2021, 03:33:00 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 22, 2021, 12:57:40 PM
If I ever have occasion to compose a Bassoon Concerto, I'll be thinking, What would Carl have done?

8)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 26, 2021, 10:45:37 AM
A question for anyone:  I was trying to find a bit more about Nielsen's Violin Concerto and looked on Wiki.  It says there that it was "written for Hungarian violinist Dr. Emil Telmányi, Nielsen's son-in-law, in 1911". 

In the liner notes, however, it mentions that "he [Nielsen] never envisaged himself as soloist, and it was the foremost Danish violinist of the day, Peder Møller, who, having learned the work in a fortnight, made it an instant success."

So, I'm curious as to why Dr. Telmányi wasn't the one who premiered it?  Did something happen to him?  Or their relationship?

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: VonStupp on November 26, 2021, 11:12:34 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 26, 2021, 10:45:37 AM
A question for anyone:  I was trying to find a bit more about Nielsen's Violin Concerto and looked on Wiki.  It says there that it was "written for Hungarian violinist Dr. Emil Telmányi, Nielsen's son-in-law, in 1911". 

In the liner notes, however, it mentions that "he [Nielsen] never envisaged himself as soloist, and it was the foremost Danish violinist of the day, Peder Møller, who, having learned the work in a fortnight, made it an instant success."

So, I'm curious as to why Dr. Telmányi wasn't the one who premiered it?  Did something happen to him?  Or their relationship?

PD

Here is an interesting preface concerning the VC:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070623201534/http://img.kb.dk/ma/cn/forord/CNU_II_09_1_pr.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20070623201534/http://img.kb.dk/ma/cn/forord/CNU_II_09_1_pr.pdf)

There is no mention of the dedication, but the linked preface to the VC score alludes to Nielsen having Møller in mind to perform, even whilst composing it, and Møller was its sole performer until Telmányi arrived in 1918.

It appears from 1918 on, the year Telmányi moved to Denmark to wed Nielsen's daughter, Telmányi was most prolific in performing the VC and seemed integral in getting it published, even cleaning up later editions after Nielsen's death, so they must have continued to be on good terms.

However, it does say a performance for Nielsen's 60th birthday (1925) was played by Møller instead of Telmányi, and the daughter thought it a bit of a slight against him.

No mention seems to be made of Telmányi and Nielsen's relationship before his daughter's marriage in this particular article. I wonder if the dedication you quote above happened at its first publication in 1919 or later??

You can see the mention of Telmányi towards the bottom of the score (in small print!). VS

(https://cdn.imslp.org/images/thumb/pdfs/96/4d4300ecc78da73f3569a999a4d76ffb147d5a2c.png)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 29, 2021, 05:48:20 AM
Quote from: VonStupp on November 26, 2021, 11:12:34 AM
Here is an interesting preface concerning the VC:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070623201534/http://img.kb.dk/ma/cn/forord/CNU_II_09_1_pr.pdf (https://web.archive.org/web/20070623201534/http://img.kb.dk/ma/cn/forord/CNU_II_09_1_pr.pdf)

There is no mention of the dedication, but the linked preface to the VC score alludes to Nielsen having Møller in mind to perform, even whilst composing it, and Møller was its sole performer until Telmányi arrived in 1918.

It appears from 1918 on, the year Telmányi moved to Denmark to wed Nielsen's daughter, Telmányi was most prolific in performing the VC and seemed integral in getting it published, even cleaning up later editions after Nielsen's death, so they must have continued to be on good terms.

However, it does say a performance for Nielsen's 60th birthday (1925) was played by Møller instead of Telmányi, and the daughter thought it a bit of a slight against him.

No mention seems to be made of Telmányi and Nielsen's relationship before his daughter's marriage in this particular article. I wonder if the dedication you quote above happened at its first publication in 1919 or later??

You can see the mention of Telmányi towards the bottom of the score (in small print!). VS

(https://cdn.imslp.org/images/thumb/pdfs/96/4d4300ecc78da73f3569a999a4d76ffb147d5a2c.png)
I thought that I had replied to you, but must not have hit "post"--or something happened.  :-[  In any event, thank you for that link.  Part of my posting was that (I think that it was on page xxiii?) that Telmányi might have done some of his own "editing" [as in changes and as in without Nielsen's approval] along with correcting the composer's own original score/wishes.  That's part of what I gleaned from it.

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on November 29, 2021, 06:01:29 AM
He did a lot of suggestions to Nielsen and revising attempts afterwards, also seen in the score he owned, and the conclusion among Danish scholars is that at least his later attempts at editing were not according to Nielsen's wishes (I'm too lazy to check how many, but there are at least two Telmanyi performances of the concerto available, with Busch 1951, and with Egisto Tango).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 29, 2021, 06:13:30 AM
Quote from: MusicTurner on November 29, 2021, 06:01:29 AM
He did a lot of suggestions to Nielsen and revising attempts afterwards, also seen in the score he owned, and the conclusion among Danish scholars is that at least his later attempts at editing were not according to Nielsen's wishes (I'm too lazy to check how many, but there are at least two Telmanyi performances of the concerto available, with Busch 1951, and with Egisto Tango).
Thanks for the information regarding the performances.  And regarding your comments, that was basically the impression that I was getting too.  :)

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: VonStupp on November 30, 2021, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 29, 2021, 05:48:20 AM
I thought that I had replied to you, but must not have hit "post"--or something happened.  :-[  In any event, thank you for that link.  Part of my posting was that (I think that it was on page xxiii?) that Telmányi might have done some of his own "editing" [as in changes and as in without Nielsen's approval] along with correcting the composer's own original score/wishes.  That's part of what I gleaned from it.

PD

Yeah, I wonder if he rode on father-in-law's coattails postmortem, and tinkered too much. Curious if the original publication is the one that is performed or Telmányi's further edits.

VS
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 30, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
Quote from: VonStupp on November 30, 2021, 08:41:17 AM
Yeah, I wonder if he rode on father-in-law's coattails postmortem, and tinkered too much. Curious if the original publication is the one that is performed or Telmányi's further edits.

VS
Perhaps haul out your ouija board and ask him?  ;)

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on November 30, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
There's been 1) a 1919 score of the Violin Concerto, with a confusing history and some obvious errors, but acknowledged by Nielsen; 2) Telmanyi's revised score from 1949, correcting some of the errors but also being too 'creative'; and 3) the new, official Carl Nielsen Edition score from 2002, reflecting the best current knowledge as regards both correctness and authenticity. Supposedly, recordings after 2002 would be the new, improved edition then.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 30, 2021, 11:23:53 AM
Quote from: MusicTurner on November 30, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
There's been 1) a 1919 score of the Violin Concerto, with a confusing history and some obvious errors, but acknowledged by Nielsen; 2) Telmanyi's revised score from 1949, correcting some of the errors but also being too 'creative'; and 3) the new, official Carl Nielsen Edition score from 2002, reflecting the best current knowledge as regards both correctness and authenticity. Supposedly, recordings after 2002 would be the new, improved edition then.
Thank you for your research!  :)  Will have to check and see when my recording is from, but first guess pre-2002.

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: VonStupp on November 30, 2021, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: MusicTurner on November 30, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
There's been 1) a 1919 score of the Violin Concerto, with a confusing history and some obvious errors, but acknowledged by Nielsen; 2) Telmanyi's revised score from 1949, correcting some of the errors but also being too 'creative'; and 3) the new, official Carl Nielsen Edition score from 2002, reflecting the best current knowledge as regards both correctness and authenticity. Supposedly, recordings after 2002 would be the new, improved edition then.

Nice! It's too bad recordings are inconsistent to include publishing information.

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 30, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
Perhaps haul out your ouija board and ask him?  ;)

PD

The Ouija spirits were feeling a general malaise, so I asked my Magic 8 Ball. Its response was hazy...  ???

VS
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on December 01, 2021, 04:50:55 AM
Quote from: VonStupp on November 30, 2021, 03:01:36 PM
Nice! It's too bad recordings are inconsistent to include publishing information.

The Ouija spirits were feeling a general malaise, so I asked my Magic 8 Ball. Its response was hazy...  ???

VS
:laugh:  :)

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on December 01, 2021, 07:07:24 AM
What's a guy without an octopus to do?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on December 01, 2021, 10:59:24 AM
Great, so my recording of the VC is liable to be out of date and inauthentic... I hate knowing things like this.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on December 01, 2021, 11:01:24 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 01, 2021, 07:07:24 AM
What's a guy without an octopus to do?
Start a garden at the bottom of the sea to attract one?  :-\

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on December 01, 2021, 11:05:48 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 01, 2021, 11:01:24 AM
Start a garden at the bottom of the sea to attract one?  :-\

PD

Warm below the storm.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on December 01, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
Quote from: Madiel on December 01, 2021, 10:59:24 AM
Great, so my recording of the VC is liable to be out of date and inauthentic... I hate knowing things like this.  :laugh:
I know, I hate it too! lol  But, hey, the most important thing is "Do you enjoy the recording(s)?"

Once I Figure out where I put my 2-CD set, I can see when the recording is from...  ::)  Need to catch up on filing!

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: MusicTurner on December 01, 2021, 11:50:37 AM
The original/authentic version of the Grieg Piano Concerto, recorded by BIS, has 100s of differences (as far as I remember around 400) compared to the usual, popular version - yet it's quite rare that I notice much of it, during an average, admittedly not that concentrated, listening ... :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on December 01, 2021, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: MusicTurner on December 01, 2021, 11:50:37 AM
The original/authentic version of the Grieg Piano Concerto, recorded by BIS, has 100s of differences (as far as I remember around 400) compared to the usual, popular version - yet it's quite rare that I notice much of it, during an average, admittedly not that concentrated, listening ... :)
Good point.  Something to think about....

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on December 01, 2021, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: MusicTurner on December 01, 2021, 11:50:37 AM
The original/authentic version of the Grieg Piano Concerto, recorded by BIS, has 100s of differences (as far as I remember around 400) compared to the usual, popular version - yet it's quite rare that I notice much of it, during an average, admittedly not that concentrated, listening ... :)

A musicologist's dream!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on December 01, 2021, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: MusicTurner on December 01, 2021, 11:50:37 AM
The original/authentic version of the Grieg Piano Concerto, recorded by BIS, has 100s of differences (as far as I remember around 400) compared to the usual, popular version - yet it's quite rare that I notice much of it, during an average, admittedly not that concentrated, listening ... :)

It's true that often the differences are not that significant to anyone who isn't sitting there with a score.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 08, 2022, 12:53:22 AM
Here's something that I never thought I'd be writing. A note about a composer's possible chronic disease.

One thing that has always struck me in pictures of CN is how bronzed he looks. I guess he got quite burnt in youth and probably liked the outdoors. But why didn't he whiten up again during the long northern winters?

I was reading today about haemochromatosis, this is a medical condition, usually hereditary and more prevalent in Nordic countries than anywhere else. It's caused by the body not excreting iron properly, so that it builds up in the body. One symptom is that the sufferer often looks very bronzed. The usual progression of the illness is that it doesn't cause problems up until a person's 40s, but after this it results in organ failure of one kind or another. This would fit the pattern of Nielsen's life: being active and healthy, then heart problems later on.

Does anyone know if anyone has suggested this diagnosis for Nielsen?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on June 09, 2022, 10:47:28 AM
Since no one has mentioned it... happy Nielsen's Birthday!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 09, 2022, 11:55:00 AM
Quote from: krummholz on June 09, 2022, 10:47:28 AM
Since no one has mentioned it... happy Nielsen's Birthday!

Obliquely 8)

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 09, 2022, 04:56:44 AM
BIRTHDAY BOY!!
Nielsen
Symphony № 4, « Det uudslukkelige » Op. 29 FS 76
SFSO
Blomstedt

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on June 09, 2022, 12:41:20 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 09, 2022, 11:55:00 AM
Obliquely 8)

Ha! Good for you, Karl! (Must have been in a thread I don't follow...)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on June 09, 2022, 12:49:41 PM
Quote from: krummholz on June 09, 2022, 12:41:20 PM
Ha! Good for you, Karl! (Must have been in a thread I don't follow...)

What Are You Listening to ... which is pretty high volume. Too high for someone like yourself who need be selective with GMG time :)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on June 09, 2022, 06:27:08 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 09, 2022, 12:49:41 PM
What Are You Listening to ... which is pretty high volume. Too high for someone like yourself who need be selective with GMG time :)

Yeah, I tried it a few months ago but gave up because of the high volume... actually I have more time in the summer, but am trying to spend it doing research and composing.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on August 17, 2022, 12:27:43 PM
Listening live to Prom No. 41 on BBC3, to the Nielsen Third Symphony, which I don't know all that well. (I adore the Fifth, sometimes at the expense of the others.)

This broadcast is with Thomas Dausgaard, the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, Elizabeth Watts (soprano), and Benjamin Appl (baritone), and it's marvelous. I think they archive most of the Proms concerts, so if you like the rest of the program (Ravel's La valse and the Beethoven Piano Concerto No. 1, with Behzod Abduraimov, new to me, in terrific form), definitely check it out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_three

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2022, 01:15:47 PM
I was supposed to be going to the Prom Concert tomorrow night featuring 'The Inextinguishable' Symphony. However, the national rail strike has scuppered that plan. My daughter and her husband, who live in London and can get there by bus are going.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on August 17, 2022, 01:43:14 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 17, 2022, 01:15:47 PM
I was supposed to be going to the Prom Concert tomorrow night featuring 'The Inextinguishable' Symphony. However, the national rail strike has scuppered that plan. My daughter and her husband, who live in London and can get there by bus are going.

A pity you'll miss it, Jeffrey!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2022, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 17, 2022, 01:43:14 PM
A pity you'll miss it, Jeffrey!
Thanks Karl - me too  :(
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: bhodges on August 17, 2022, 01:50:23 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 17, 2022, 01:15:47 PM
I was supposed to be going to the Prom Concert tomorrow night featuring 'The Inextinguishable' Symphony. However, the national rail strike has scuppered that plan. My daughter and her husband, who live in London and can get there by bus are going.

Rats! That's a shame, since based on today, it promises to be wonderful. I mean, who opens a concert with the Sibelius 7?

Possible plan B: if BBC3 broadcasts it (can't really tell from the website), you might hear it live, at least on the radio?

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2022, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: Brewski on August 17, 2022, 01:50:23 PM
Rats! That's a shame, since based on today, it promises to be wonderful. I mean, who opens a concert with the Sibelius 7?

Possible plan B: if BBC3 broadcasts it (can't really tell from the website), you might hear it live, at least on the radio?

--Bruce
Thanks Bruce yes, BBC Radio 3 broadcast all the concerts so I'll try to listen in tomorrow night - not quite the same as being there though .
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 18, 2022, 02:22:38 AM
Quote from: ultralinear on August 18, 2022, 12:44:44 AM
I'm sorry to hear about that.  It's happened to me a couple of times this year, and it really sucks. :(  I hope at least you were able to get a refund for your tickets.  The Barbican were very good about stretching the time limits for claiming refunds when a strike was announced with less than 24 hours notice. >:(

The refund business has been a nightmare as my brother bought the tickets through an agency not the RAH box office - but let's not go there (actually, I'm not going anywhere!)  :(
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 18, 2022, 09:27:39 AM
My daughter and her husband, being computer savvy managed to sell all the unused tickets. They are at the Albert Hall now. It has been less of a financial disaster than I anticipated. Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on August 19, 2022, 10:36:54 PM
My daughter and her husband really enjoyed hearing Nielsen's 4th Symphony live at the Proms (and Sibelius's 7th Symphony). I listened in on the radio from home and I thought that Thomas Dausgaard's performance of 'The Inextinguishable' was terrific - very urgent and powerful. Apparently the second kettle drum was in the Arena with the promenaders. Apparently he marched through the audience wearing a green T shirt with a backpack to get to the timpani set! It sounded fun. My daughter initially thought that he was a poorly behaved member of the audience!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Irons on August 20, 2022, 12:46:24 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 19, 2022, 10:36:54 PM
My daughter and her husband really enjoyed hearing Nielsen's 4th Symphony live at the Proms (and Sibelius's 7th Symphony). I listened in on the radio from home and I thought that Thomas Dausgaard's performance of 'The Inextinguishable' was terrific - very urgent and powerful. Apparently the second kettle drum was in the Arena with the promenaders. Apparently he marched through the audience wearing a green T shirt with a backpack to get to the timpani set! It sounded fun. My daughter initially thought that he was a poorly behaved member of the audience!

Sounds great. Your loss is your daughter's gain.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 10:11:24 AM
I'm not much keen on listening to new recordings of works I am familiar with, but this new Nielsen cycle has received nothing but invigorating raves by many that I can't ignore their positive reactions. It's formidable indeed, the performances are bold, confident and they benefit from stunning sound quality (with slight resonance). I've left the best coupling (Nos. 4 and 5) for later.

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634811.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634781.jpg)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: brewski on January 31, 2023, 10:28:51 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 10:11:24 AMI'm not much keen on listening to new recordings of works I am familiar with, but this new Nielsen cycle has received nothing but invigorating raves by many that I can't ignore their positive reactions. It's formidable indeed, the performances are bold, confident and they benefit from stunning sound quality (with slight resonance). I've left the best coupling (Nos. 4 and 5) for later.

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634811.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634781.jpg)

Happy to hear the comments (and want to hear the recordings). I was a big fan of Luisi when he was guest-conducting the Met Orchestra at Carnegie Hall (don't recall the ensemble in any Nielsen—actually with anyone), and am glad that he is getting recognition elsewhere.

-Bruce
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 10:38:15 AM
Quote from: brewski on January 31, 2023, 10:28:51 AMHappy to hear the comments (and want to hear the recordings). I was a big fan of Luisi when he was guest-conducting the Met Orchestra at Carnegie Hall (don't recall the ensemble in any Nielsen—actually with anyone), and am glad that he is getting recognition elsewhere.

-Bruce

Actually, these are the first recordings/works I hear under his baton and I must say the result is terrific. I hope you also enjoy these stellar performances.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: vandermolen on January 31, 2023, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 10:11:24 AMI'm not much keen on listening to new recordings of works I am familiar with, but this new Nielsen cycle has received nothing but invigorating raves by many that I can't ignore their positive reactions. It's formidable indeed, the performances are bold, confident and they benefit from stunning sound quality (with slight resonance). I've left the best coupling (Nos. 4 and 5) for later.

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634811.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634781.jpg)
I was tempted by the forthcoming hard-copy release of this set but then read an otherwise very enthusiastic review which commented that the side-drummer's free cadenza (in Symphony No.5) was not as manic as it could be. This rather put me off. I'll stick with Horenstein and Barbirolli.

PS I found this old thread which might be of interest:
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,14887.20.html
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on January 31, 2023, 11:20:24 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 10:11:24 AMI'm not much keen on listening to new recordings of works I am familiar with, but this new Nielsen cycle has received nothing but invigorating raves by many that I can't ignore their positive reactions. It's formidable indeed, the performances are bold, confident and they benefit from stunning sound quality (with slight resonance). I've left the best coupling (Nos. 4 and 5) for later.

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634811.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634781.jpg)
Luisi did a great job in a guest appearance with the BSO some years ago (don't ask me what the program was, though ....)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Lisztianwagner on January 31, 2023, 11:46:26 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 10:11:24 AMI'm not much keen on listening to new recordings of works I am familiar with, but this new Nielsen cycle has received nothing but invigorating raves by many that I can't ignore their positive reactions. It's formidable indeed, the performances are bold, confident and they benefit from stunning sound quality (with slight resonance). I've left the best coupling (Nos. 4 and 5) for later.

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634811.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634781.jpg)

Sounds very promising, I would be curious to listen to this cycle too; so far the only Nielsen Cycle I know is the Blomstedt.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Daverz on January 31, 2023, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 10:11:24 AMI'm not much keen on listening to new recordings of works I am familiar with, but this new Nielsen cycle has received nothing but invigorating raves by many that I can't ignore their positive reactions. It's formidable indeed, the performances are bold, confident and they benefit from stunning sound quality (with slight resonance). I've left the best coupling (Nos. 4 and 5) for later.

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634811.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00028948634781.jpg)

The Fanfare review of 4 & 5 by Steven Kruger complains about the recording balances:

"It isn't just percussion balances that are off here. Some of the brass resolutions of suspended harmonies come through poorly in both symphonies, even though the catharsis of tension depends on them. I hesitate to blame the performances, though. I think they are fine. But it would have been nice if DG had arranged for one actually to hear them better balanced."

(Huntley Dent (AKA Santa Fe Listener) is more enthusiastic overall, but I consider him a charlatan.)

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 31, 2023, 10:50:16 AMI was tempted by the forthcoming hard-copy release of this set but then read an otherwise very enthusiastic review which commented that the side-drummer's free cadenza (in Symphony No.5) was not as manic as it could be. This rather put me off. I'll stick with Horenstein and Barbirolli.

PS I found this old thread which might be of interest:
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,14887.20.html

Just listened to the missing CD and yes, the side-drummer in the 5th is not frenetic enough. In fact, I didn't feel the climax significantly special. Otherwise, I believe it's a good performance overall.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 05:33:04 PM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 31, 2023, 11:20:24 AMLuisi did a great job in a guest appearance with the BSO some years ago (don't ask me what the program was, though ....)

So he did in this cycle methinks. These recordings won't displace any favorites of mine, but it was nice to revisit these magnificent symphonies.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 05:35:01 PM
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on January 31, 2023, 11:46:26 AMSounds very promising, I would be curious to listen to this cycle too; so far the only Nielsen Cycle I know is the Blomstedt.

As a whole I think it's very good, although I do have some reservations regarding the sonics.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on January 31, 2023, 05:37:20 PM
Quote from: Daverz on January 31, 2023, 02:13:03 PMThe Fanfare review of 4 & 5 by Steven Kruger complains about the recording balances:

"It isn't just percussion balances that are off here. Some of the brass resolutions of suspended harmonies come through poorly in both symphonies, even though the catharsis of tension depends on them. I hesitate to blame the performances, though. I think they are fine. But it would have been nice if DG had arranged for one actually to hear them better balanced."

(Huntley Dent (AKA Santa Fe Listener) is more enthusiastic overall, but I consider him a charlatan.)



Some tutti and loud passages felt congested, that was a flaw I perceived. Moreover, some crucial moments in both symphonies weren't taken as succesful as I wanted, but the excitement and fine playing was there.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 09, 2023, 06:33:17 PM
Whereas in the realm of cello concertos the one by Dvorák (in B minor) reigns supreme and deservedly so IMO, when clarinet concertos are concerned it is the masterpiece by Nielsen that holds the honour I reckon (in the case of other instruments, though, the "competition" for picking the best is tougher). I was revisiting it on this stellar recording and I couldn't help being utterly flabbergasted once again by how brilliant it is. It sounds to me like a blend between concerto and tone poem, it has a sense of storytelling that makes it even more interesting and fun. From the very opening the music hooks with that theme on the cellos and basses, the composer's trademark in full display. This is music that resonates with me very much and makes me smile and even laugh (in a good way, of course) because of its quirkiness, moodiness and witty character I find so irresistible. Another element I consider alluring is its singular orchestration: two horns, two bassoons, snare drum and strings. You don't really miss any other instrument in the orchestral palette, sounds perfect as it is scored. I can just imagine what Nielsen would have done with tentative concertos for oboe, horn and bassoon had he lived longer.

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODkxOTYxOC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjU1NzMwNDJ9)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 09, 2023, 06:50:10 PM
Quote from: Løvfald on April 09, 2023, 06:33:17 PMWhereas in the realm of cello concertos the one by Dvorák (in B minor) reigns supreme and deservedly so IMO, when clarinet concertos are concerned it is the masterpiece by Nielsen that holds the honour I reckon (in the case of other instruments, though, the "competition" for picking the best is tougher). I was revisiting it on this stellar recording and I couldn't help being utterly flabbergasted once again by how brilliant it is. It sounds to me like a blend between concerto and tone poem, it has a sense of storytelling that makes it even more interesting and fun. From the very opening the music hooks with that theme on the cellos and basses, the composer's trademark in full display. This is music that resonates with me very much and makes me smile and even laugh (in a good way, of course) because of its quirkiness, moodiness and witty character I find so irresistible. Another element I consider alluring is its singular orchestration: two horns, two bassoons, snare drum and strings. You don't really miss any other instrument in the orchestral palette, sounds perfect as it is scored. I can just imagine what Nielsen would have done with tentative concertos for oboe, horn and bassoon had he lived longer.

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODkxOTYxOC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjU1NzMwNDJ9)
A superb piece!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on April 10, 2023, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Løvfald on April 09, 2023, 06:33:17 PMI was revisiting it on this stellar recording...

I can just imagine what Nielsen would have done with tentative concertos for oboe, horn and bassoon had he lived longer.

I didn't know that recording so, as something of a collector of Nielsen clarinet concertos, I'm very grateful for the introduction.  It sounds good - but then everyone sounds good in it these days - gone are the times when you listened to a new recording wondering what would go wrong this time.  Šparovec's sound is perhaps a little too polite for my taste, not quite wild enough (he won't displace my all-time favourite:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk2NzA5My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9))
but I especially enjoyed the earthy basses and snappy snare-drum - all drummers can play it now as well, which wasn't always the case.  (I was once booked to play the part with a local orchestra - it was a great relief to me when they changed the programme to a concerto by Crusell, since the strings couldn't play the Nielsen.)

Regarding the missing 3 wind concertos, I agree they are a great loss, but I'm not sure Nielsen would ever have written them, even if he and Sibelius could have exchanged life-spans.  He had to be bullied into writing the one for clarinet by Oxenvad (who was a bully, so that worked OK), but in his remaining 6 years I think his interests were moving away into the purer sound-world of the 3 Motets and Commotio.  (At least that's how I console myself for not having those concertos.)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Karl Henning on April 10, 2023, 02:21:20 PM
Quote from: DaveF on April 10, 2023, 09:33:00 AMRegarding the missing 3 wind concertos, I agree they are a great loss, but I'm not sure Nielsen would ever have written them, even if he and Sibelius could have exchanged life-spans.  He had to be bullied into writing the one for clarinet by Oxenvad (who was a bully, so that worked OK), but in his remaining 6 years I think his interests were moving away into the purer sound-world of the 3 Motets and Commotio.  (At least that's how I console myself for not having those concertos.)
I think I can make that work for me, too.
Title: Nielsen : Symphony No. 3 "Sinfonia Espansiva"
Post by: W.A. Mozart on April 24, 2023, 10:48:49 AM
How do you rate this piece?

San Francisco Symphony conducted by Herbert Blomstedt.

Title: Re: Nielsen : Symphony No. 3 "Sinfonia Espansiva"
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 24, 2023, 10:56:49 AM
Absolutely lovely, inspiriting, memorable, life-enhancing, wonderful, extraordinary... one of the most invigorating pieces of classical music I know. Needless to say I love it dearly. My favorite performance could be Rozhdestvensky on Chandos (I don't remember the orchestra right now).
Title: Re: Nielsen : Symphony No. 3 "Sinfonia Espansiva"
Post by: Daverz on April 24, 2023, 10:57:20 AM
All that is necessary for rating a piece of music as music is to listen.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Leo K. on May 05, 2023, 07:58:47 AM
(https://www.dacapo-records.dk/sites/default/files/covers/6.220641-42_0.jpg)

This opera is a revelation. I am immediately captured by the orchestration and melodies - great singing here too. Aces!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Madiel on May 09, 2023, 07:33:46 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on May 05, 2023, 07:58:47 AM(https://www.dacapo-records.dk/sites/default/files/covers/6.220641-42_0.jpg)

This opera is a revelation. I am immediately captured by the orchestration and melodies - great singing here too. Aces!

And a totally fabulous recording. Amazing clarity.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Mountain Goat on May 09, 2023, 03:32:30 PM
Quote from: W.A. Mozart on April 24, 2023, 10:48:49 AMHow do you rate this piece?

San Francisco Symphony conducted by Herbert Blomstedt.


The very first piece I ever heard by Nielsen. I had just started university and was living away from home for the first time, so no longer had access to my parents' CDs. I started building a music collection by taping stuff off the radio, and was actively looking to expand my knowledge beyond the Classical and Romantic eras that my parents' tastes were limited to. So when I turned on the radio one evening and heard this being announced, I quickly grabbed a blank tape and just about managed to start recording in time.

It completely blew me away, I had never heard anything like it before. The life-affirming energy of the 1st movement, the amazing wordless voices in the 2nd, the "dance of the trolls" 3rd movement and finally the hymn tune in the finale - in the unlikely event that I manage to successfully start my own country, that will be the tune of its national anthem. This was the piece that opened the door to all post-Romantic music for me, and as a result still has a very special place in my heart.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Leo K. on May 10, 2023, 04:33:49 AM
(https://storage.highresaudio.com/2023/04/21/kbnfti-carlnielse-preview-m3.jpg)

This new release is simply incredible. Great sound quality. The performances are very powerful and aggressive. Amazing! I love this orchestra!

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: krummholz on May 12, 2023, 08:27:22 AM
Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 09, 2023, 03:32:30 PMThe very first piece I ever heard by Nielsen. I had just started university and was living away from home for the first time, so no longer had access to my parents' CDs. I started building a music collection by taping stuff off the radio, and was actively looking to expand my knowledge beyond the Classical and Romantic eras that my parents' tastes were limited to. So when I turned on the radio one evening and heard this being announced, I quickly grabbed a blank tape and just about managed to start recording in time.

It completely blew me away, I had never heard anything like it before. The life-affirming energy of the 1st movement, the amazing wordless voices in the 2nd, the "dance of the trolls" 3rd movement and finally the hymn tune in the finale - in the unlikely event that I manage to successfully start my own country, that will be the tune of its national anthem. This was the piece that opened the door to all post-Romantic music for me, and as a result still has a very special place in my heart.

Ditto for me, almost - for me it was his 5th, heard live by the Detroit Symphony Orchestra under Sixten Ehrling, and then by the NYPO in Bernstein's classic recording. But the 3rd was next - again Bernstein - and it made an enormous impression on me. The Espansiva was one of my main influences inspiring me to try to compose as a teenager, and then as a college student. I still return to Carl Nielsen's symphonies, and other works like Commotio, for inspiration and they never cease to reward.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 15, 2023, 06:01:30 AM
Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 09, 2023, 03:32:30 PMThe very first piece I ever heard by Nielsen. I had just started university and was living away from home for the first time, so no longer had access to my parents' CDs. I started building a music collection by taping stuff off the radio, and was actively looking to expand my knowledge beyond the Classical and Romantic eras that my parents' tastes were limited to. So when I turned on the radio one evening and heard this being announced, I quickly grabbed a blank tape and just about managed to start recording in time.

It completely blew me away, I had never heard anything like it before. The life-affirming energy of the 1st movement, the amazing wordless voices in the 2nd, the "dance of the trolls" 3rd movement and finally the hymn tune in the finale - in the unlikely event that I manage to successfully start my own country, that will be the tune of its national anthem. This was the piece that opened the door to all post-Romantic music for me, and as a result still has a very special place in my heart.

Do you know this remarkable version of the Espansiva?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51rDzrAYyIL._AC_.jpg)

Its the complete symphony arranged for symphonic brass and cathedral organ.  The sound is genuinely epic.  Of course a massive re-imagining of the original work but it captures so much of the dynamic energy and life-force of the orchestral work that I have to say I love.  One to play loud when the neighbours are away and you've put the cat out.......
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: kyjo on July 29, 2023, 08:37:33 PM
Was recently listening to this exceptional CD (the violinist in the sonata is Christian Tetzlaff, no less):

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7KuN6BB4RjCUR4GTfvZ9zww9nUQlH3_-hqg&usqp=CAU)

Nielsen's piano music is very rarely mentioned, mainly because there's so little of it, but what little exists is of a very high quality. The two early works, the 5 Piano Pieces and Humoresque-Bagatelles, are mostly very brief but are packed with character and incident. But the real meat of the program comes with the three mature works: the Luciferian Suite (great title!), 3 Piano Pieces, and Chaconne. This is seriously fascinating stuff, fully in Nielsen's characteristic quirky and unpredictable style. And the Violin Sonata no. 2 is a substantial coupling, a complex, compelling, and again unpredictable work with a particularly enigmatic ending. It goes without saying that the performances here are scintillating and thoroughly idiomatic, given Nielsen's music a really powerful "thrust" when required.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 30, 2023, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: kyjo on July 29, 2023, 08:37:33 PMWas recently listening to this exceptional CD (the violinist in the sonata is Christian Tetzlaff, no less):

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7KuN6BB4RjCUR4GTfvZ9zww9nUQlH3_-hqg&usqp=CAU)

Nielsen's piano music is very rarely mentioned, mainly because there's so little of it, but what little exists is of a very high quality. The two early works, the 5 Piano Pieces and Humoresque-Bagatelles, are mostly very brief but are packed with character and incident. But the real meat of the program comes with the three mature works: the Luciferian Suite (great title!), 3 Piano Pieces, and Chaconne. This is seriously fascinating stuff, fully in Nielsen's characteristic quirky and unpredictable style. And the Violin Sonata no. 2 is a substantial coupling, a complex, compelling, and again unpredictable work with a particularly enigmatic ending. It goes without saying that the performances here are scintillating and thoroughly idiomatic, given Nielsen's music a really powerful "thrust" when required.

Very interesting, some years ago I began listening to the early piano pieces and I didn't continue exploring beyond. The music sounds right up my street (I do know the Violin Sonatas, though).
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: DaveF on July 30, 2023, 11:46:27 PM
Quote from: kyjo on July 29, 2023, 08:37:33 PMWas recently listening to this exceptional CD (the violinist in the sonata is Christian Tetzlaff, no less):

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7KuN6BB4RjCUR4GTfvZ9zww9nUQlH3_-hqg&usqp=CAU)

Thanks for that post.  I was aware of that disc, but just assumed it was a reissue of LOA's old Nielsen piano disc (I have it as a 2-disc Nielsen and Janáček set from probably 30 years ago) - I hadn't read the small print and seen that the violin sonata was now included.  A lot of very good violinists (usually Nordic) have recorded the sonatas, but you could argue that Lydia Mordkovich is the only other "great" one to have done so.  So I'll have to get hold of that one - but probably in this version, to avoid duplication:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyODQ4Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NjEwODQ0MzZ9)

And no danger of being distracted from the music by an exciting CD cover!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: lunar22 on July 31, 2023, 11:39:08 PM
Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 09, 2023, 03:32:30 PMIt completely blew me away, I had never heard anything like it before. The life-affirming energy of the 1st movement, the amazing wordless voices in the 2nd, the "dance of the trolls" 3rd movement and finally the hymn tune in the finale - in the unlikely event that I manage to successfully start my own country, that will be the tune of its national anthem. This was the piece that opened the door to all post-Romantic music for me, and as a result still has a very special place in my heart.

this has always been and remains to this day my favourite work by Nielsen and one of the most exhilarating and life-affirming symphonies ever written. Shame it's so little performed in concert compared to the ubiquitous 4th and 5th -- I've never been able to hear it live.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on October 28, 2023, 07:09:32 AM
Carl and his bird.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on October 28, 2023, 07:36:48 AM
Quote from: lunar22 on July 31, 2023, 11:39:08 PMthis has always been and remains to this day my favourite work by Nielsen and one of the most exhilarating and life-affirming symphonies ever written. Shame it's so little performed in concert compared to the ubiquitous 4th and 5th -- I've never been able to hear it live.

Yes, the fourth and fifth are indeed masterworks but even on that background the third is something special.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on October 30, 2023, 10:36:39 AM
Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 09, 2023, 03:32:30 PMThe very first piece I ever heard by Nielsen. I had just started university and was living away from home for the first time, so no longer had access to my parents' CDs. I started building a music collection by taping stuff off the radio, and was actively looking to expand my knowledge beyond the Classical and Romantic eras that my parents' tastes were limited to. So when I turned on the radio one evening and heard this being announced, I quickly grabbed a blank tape and just about managed to start recording in time.

It completely blew me away, I had never heard anything like it before. The life-affirming energy of the 1st movement, the amazing wordless voices in the 2nd, the "dance of the trolls" 3rd movement and finally the hymn tune in the finale - in the unlikely event that I manage to successfully start my own country, that will be the tune of its national anthem. This was the piece that opened the door to all post-Romantic music for me, and as a result still has a very special place in my heart.
Mr. President,

Oh, cool!  ;)

Was this the same recording that you first heard?

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on October 30, 2023, 10:50:51 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on October 28, 2023, 07:09:32 AMCarl and his bird.
His wife, Anne Marie Carl-Nielsen, was an amazing artist in her own right.  I wasn't familiar with her work before now.

https://nmwa.org/blog/artist-spotlight/danish-artist-anne-marie-carl-nielsen-part-1-of-2/

PD
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: calyptorhynchus on October 30, 2023, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 15, 2023, 06:01:30 AMDo you know this remarkable version of the Espansiva?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51rDzrAYyIL._AC_.jpg)

Its the complete symphony arranged for symphonic brass and cathedral organ.  The sound is genuinely epic.  Of course a massive re-imagining of the original work but it captures so much of the dynamic energy and life-force of the orchestral work that I have to say I love.  One to play loud when the neighbours are away and you've put the cat out.......

What do they do about the wordless voices in the slow movement, wouldn't two soloists get drowned out by the brass?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 30, 2023, 01:43:22 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on October 30, 2023, 12:21:22 PMWhat do they do about the wordless voices in the slow movement, wouldn't two soloists get drowned out by the brass?

Voices are not used (a bit like the composer-sanctioned instrumental alternative).  This is already quite a big step away from the original so I guess getting concerned about preserving the voices would be a little odd.  As I say its a massive re-imagining but one I think works rather well (but then Bo Holten's Commotio doesn't offend me either!)
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: premont on October 30, 2023, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 30, 2023, 01:43:22 PMVoices are not used (a bit like the composer-sanctioned instrumental alternative).  This is already quite a big step away from the original so I guess getting concerned about preserving the voices would be a little odd.  As I say its a massive re-imagining but one I think works rather well (but then Bo Holten's Commotio doesn't offend me either!)

Well, the voices are a special and a distinctive feature of this symphony and can't be omitted without violating the work.

Concerning arrangements I'm never offended but often surprised. What's the purpose of these arrangements which are never up to the original work?
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 30, 2023, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: premont on October 30, 2023, 02:47:36 PMWell, the voices are a special and a distinctive feature of this symphony and can't be omitted without violating the work.

Concerning arrangements I'm never offended but often surprised. What's the purpose of these arrangements which are never up to the original work?

"violating" now there's a provocative (inappropriate?) word!  Nielsen himself offered the alternative of a clarinet and bassoon if the (obviously preferable) voices were not available.

Arrangements have many purposes; pragmatism - allowing music to be performed in places and by ensembles that would not be possible in the original form.  Arrangements can be enlightening - often they can throw light and give insights into works not always apparent in their original form.  Arrangements are never intended to replace original works - they supplement and extend our knowledge and appreciation of the original.  My feeling is that folk who dismiss arrangements are simply putting the original work on an inviolable pedestal. 

Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Symphonic Addict on October 30, 2023, 03:28:21 PM
I thoroughly endorse what RS said!
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Roasted Swan on November 17, 2023, 02:48:09 AM
This week's/month's free download if you are subscribed to the Naxos newsletter is this;

(https://i.discogs.com/Fe0b0JzoM72G84mbJf5tmU2Qs5-j2I0uBqjiVCN9g6c/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTM1MTg2/NTEtMTMzMzcwNTEy/Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)

Now the 1st LP I had of "The Inextinguishable" was this DG Heliodor performance;

(https://i.discogs.com/wPUULUzDcSD3Etk-XYdGaTNlQA_ZPgSx2SSw40-YIHM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:597/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTU5NjA4/NTctMTY4MTM3MjM3/NS00OTk0LmpwZWc.jpeg)

which I assume is the same performance?  Not yet listened but my memory - decades old! - is that it was rather good.  Of course as my 1st encounter with this astonsihing work perhaps it was the piece that made the major impact.  But I think Markevitch would be good in this piece.  Anyway it was a free FLAC download so literally nothing to loose.......
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on November 17, 2023, 03:51:14 AM
full LP artwork for the ^ above Sym Four:

https://ia802308.us.archive.org/20/items/lp_symphony-no-4-the-inextinguishable-op-29_carl-nielsen-det-kongelige-kapel-igor-mark_0/lp_symphony-no-4-the-inextinguishable-op-29_carl-nielsen-det-kongelige-kapel-igor-mark_0.pdf

Quality has always seemed to shrill for me,
even the DG issue of this recording.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Atriod on November 17, 2023, 05:05:58 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on November 17, 2023, 02:48:09 AMThis week's/month's free download if you are subscribed to the Naxos newsletter is this;

(https://i.discogs.com/Fe0b0JzoM72G84mbJf5tmU2Qs5-j2I0uBqjiVCN9g6c/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTM1MTg2/NTEtMTMzMzcwNTEy/Ni5qcGVn.jpeg)

Now the 1st LP I had of "The Inextinguishable" was this DG Heliodor performance;

(https://i.discogs.com/wPUULUzDcSD3Etk-XYdGaTNlQA_ZPgSx2SSw40-YIHM/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:597/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTU5NjA4/NTctMTY4MTM3MjM3/NS00OTk0LmpwZWc.jpeg)

which I assume is the same performance?  Not yet listened but my memory - decades old! - is that it was rather good.  Of course as my 1st encounter with this astonsihing work perhaps it was the piece that made the major impact.  But I think Markevitch would be good in this piece.  Anyway it was a free FLAC download so literally nothing to loose.......

It appears that Vox (now owned by Naxos) owns this recording because it was not in the DG Markevitch box. Naxos have been reissuing some of those Vox owned recordings, hopefully this will make its way to CD.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Scion7 on November 17, 2023, 01:22:43 PM
Has anyone here picked these up?  I could have back in the day, but didn't.  No re-issue on CD.
Title: Re: The Nielsen Nexus
Post by: Jo498 on November 18, 2023, 08:09:48 AM
Never seen them; I had the woodwind quintet + fillers in a similar design and also with a Danish ensemble on CD!  but I didn't keep it, having ~3 other recordings of the wind quintet I preferred.