GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: 12tone. on May 31, 2007, 04:34:54 PM

Title: How are these two different?
Post by: 12tone. on May 31, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it.  Did Jochum's style differ much or did he have the same ideas to bring to two different orchestras?  That meaning if he played with one orchestra, expect the same thing with another.  Or is that wrong thinking?

Do these have enough differences, or did Jochum sound the same on both?

(http://www.classical.net.cn/imagedir/10000/099900108614457.jpg)(http://addons.books.com.tw/G/002/4/0020106974.jpg)
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: head-case on May 31, 2007, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: 12tone. on May 31, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it.  Did Jochum's style differ much or did he have the same ideas to bring to two different orchestras?  That meaning if he played with one orchestra, expect the same thing with another.  Or is that wrong thinking?

Do these have enough differences, or did Jochum sound the same on both?

(http://www.classical.net.cn/imagedir/10000/099900108614457.jpg)(http://addons.books.com.tw/G/002/4/0020106974.jpg)

The first is generally considered to have more interpretative liberties, the second more strict and staid in its conception.  Both are well played and worth hearing.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: beclemund on May 31, 2007, 08:09:59 PM
Quote from: 12tone. on May 31, 2007, 04:34:54 PMDo these have enough differences, or did Jochum sound the same on both?

They are very similar, IMO. There are subtle differences from one to the next but the same revisions in both. Go for the best price you can find.

Be sure to compliment your cycle with Giulini's 8th (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=56689) with the VPO. I spent my lunch hour today completely enthralled by the Adagio... I had to listen twice. It is such an expansive interpretation and the Vienna strings just sing... perfect.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Novi on June 01, 2007, 03:28:11 AM
Quote from: beclemund on May 31, 2007, 08:09:59 PM
Be sure to compliment your cycle with Giulini's 8th (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=56689) with the VPO. I spent my lunch hour today completely enthralled by the Adagio... I had to listen twice. It is such an expansive interpretation and the Vienna strings just sing... perfect.

The Guilini 9th is great too.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: orbital on June 01, 2007, 06:12:39 AM
Plus, I think the EMI release with the Dresden should be cheaper. At least it was when I bought it.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/31170QM1M9L._AA180_.jpg)
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Drasko on June 01, 2007, 06:20:19 AM
Quote from: 12tone. on May 31, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it. 

If you have one you don't really need the other.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Hector on June 01, 2007, 06:23:59 AM
One is more earthbound than the other but I forget which.

I vaguely remember those that find interesting things in this conductor's Bruckner preferring the DG.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Todd on June 01, 2007, 09:16:11 AM
Quote from: Novitiate on June 01, 2007, 03:28:11 AMThe Guilini 9th is great too.


As is his 7th.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: BachQ on June 01, 2007, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: orbital on June 01, 2007, 06:12:39 AM
Plus, I think the EMI release with the Dresden should be cheaper. At least it was when I bought it.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/31170QM1M9L._AA180_.jpg)


The Brilliant Classics release contains Symphony no. 0 as a bonus .......... EMI does not ...........
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 01, 2007, 09:29:46 AM
Quote from: 12tone. on May 31, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
So I have the left one...but wondered if the right one is different enough to get it.

Not before you invest in someone else's Bruckner first. There are differences between the sets but really, it's a toss up. For example, I prefer the Bavarian Second (I really love that) but prefer the Dresden Ninth. My advice: get the Dresden box ten or twenty years from now and buy something completely different (interpretatively speaking) today. What you need to do today, right now, is: buy the Celibidache Munich Phil box  8)  (And yes, all the Giulini Bruckner you can find.)

Sarge
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Choo Choo on June 01, 2007, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 01, 2007, 09:29:46 AM
(And yes, all the Giulini Bruckner you can find.)

Except the 1985 BPO #7  :P
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: orbital on June 01, 2007, 09:36:52 AM
Quote from: D Minor on June 01, 2007, 09:26:14 AM
The Brilliant Classics release contains Symphony no. 0 as a bonus .......... EMI does not ...........
oh, I did not know that (that fact I mean AND the symphony)  ;D.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 01, 2007, 09:44:06 AM
Quote from: Choo Choo on June 01, 2007, 09:35:12 AM
Except the 1985 BPO #7  :P

That one I don't own...I bow to your superior knowledge.

Sarge
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Choo Choo on June 01, 2007, 10:28:38 AM
It's ... disappointing.  The interpretation drags, the sonics are awful - even the playing is ragged in places.  Not up to the standard of the others.  E.g. the live Philharmonia #7 has never shifted from the top few steps of my personal pantheon.  A friend of mine who was there on the night (Proms '82) said at the end the roof lifted off.
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Choo Choo on June 01, 2007, 04:09:25 PM
Returning to the original question...

If you already have the Jochum set on DG, then (1) yes, the EMI Dresden set is different, but (2) not sufficiently different to make it worth buying if these are your only Bruckner recordings.

There is a wide range of Bruckner interpretation.  If you're interested, you could sample something with a different savour.  Sarge's suggestion of Celi's MPO set is a good one:  it contains at least 2 outstanding performances (plus 1 or 2 others which may be more controversial) but all are well worth hearing - and the set is de rigeur for a serious Brucknerian.

You can also try Karajan/BPO.  This is a consistent and competent set, representing (again) a different approach, which a lot of people find convincing.

My personal favourite set - if it's a set you're after - is Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken.  Solid, meaty, echt-Brucknerian performances, with not a dud amongst them - and some knockouts:  #6 and #9 are particularly good - and the #0 is my top pick (from an admittedly not large field of candidates.)
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: MishaK on June 01, 2007, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: Choo Choo on June 01, 2007, 04:09:25 PM
You can also try Karajan/BPO.  This is a consistent and competent set, representing (again) a different approach, which a lot of people find convincing.

For a consistent middle of the road set in good sound, I would rather get Wand, Haitink or Barenboim, the latter two of which are inexpensive these days. Karajan has very odd balances. A lot of detail gets lost in his wall of sound. Or for even better sound, get Chailly. But he does have at least one dud in his set (like that lifeless 9th).
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: beclemund on June 02, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
Quote from: O Mensch on June 01, 2007, 04:46:24 PM
For a consistent middle of the road set in good sound, I would rather get Wand, Haitink or Barenboim, the latter two of which are inexpensive these days. Karajan has very odd balances. A lot of detail gets lost in his wall of sound. Or for even better sound, get Chailly. But he does have at least one dud in his set (like that lifeless 9th).

It may be better to pick and choose some of Karajan's (he recorded the 8th at least four times) recordings of the later symphonies. His '88 8th is lovely... and makes a great addition if you're carrying more Nowak (Celibidache, Jochum, Giulini, Tintner--1887 ed. vs. 1890 on the Tintner so more like a third edition entirely--etc.) than Haas editions among your current readings. :)

One of these days, I'm going to add the Wand cycle to the Jochum and Tintner sets I already own, but there are so many other composers and individual works that I should devote more attention to, it's likely to be some time before I do that.

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A0SD6HD2L._AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: How are these two different?
Post by: Bonehelm on June 03, 2007, 09:17:39 AM
Quote from: beclemund on June 02, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
It may be better to pick and choose some of Karajan's (he recorded the 8th at least four times) recordings of the later symphonies. His '88 8th is lovely... and makes a great addition if you're carrying more Nowak (Celibidache, Jochum, Giulini, Tintner--1887 ed. vs. 1890 on the Tintner so more like a third edition entirely--etc.) than Haas editions among your current readings. :)

One of these days, I'm going to add the Wand cycle to the Jochum and Tintner sets I already own, but there are so many other composers and individual works that I should devote more attention to, it's likely to be some time before I do that.

(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A0SD6HD2L._AA240_.jpg)

I second your recommendation 100%. I have Wand's 4th...and well let's just say the Romantic symphony can't get much better than that.