GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: tjguitar on April 16, 2007, 09:15:49 AM

Title: Sir William Walton
Post by: tjguitar on April 16, 2007, 09:15:49 AM
Another one of my favorite 20th century British composers, no thread so I'll make it.

I don't have too many from him at the moment, any recommendations?

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/fa/ae/2aab224128a0a2bbf3d0c010._AA240_.L.jpg)(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000014D5.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_AA130_.jpg)(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/d1/fd/f81792c008a0dd6e8ebc9010._AA240_.L.jpg)
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000000AL8.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45548107_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: bhodges on April 16, 2007, 09:25:14 AM
One of my favorite Walton recordings is this one of Belshazzar's Feast, with Andrew Litton and Bryn Terfel.  It was recorded in Winchester Cathedral, which might seem too resonant, but somehow the engineers got it right.  Litton and the Bournemouth musicians come up with very exciting playing, and Terfel is terrific in the solo parts.  Here's a good review in Stereophile, which gave it its Recording of the Month in February 1996 (http://www.stereophile.com/recordingofthemonth/768/).

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00000427W.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 16, 2007, 09:41:53 AM
For some discussion & recommendations from the old forum see this thread on 20th Century English Composers (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4392.0.html) -  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Harry on April 16, 2007, 10:39:29 AM
What there is of Walton on the Naxos label I have, and I have no complains whatwhoever about interpretation and sound.
I have tryed to get the complete recordings on Chandos some time ago, but it is OOP.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: 71 dB on April 16, 2007, 11:09:26 AM
Walton first Symphony is very good but I also find it strenuous in it's screaming aggression. The opening bars are wonderful but quiet. This makes me turn more volume and rest of the symphony is very loud.
(Naxos)

The first symphony didn't make me want more. I don't have a need to explore more Walton.  ???
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Robert on April 16, 2007, 11:22:56 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 16, 2007, 11:09:26 AM
Walton first Symphony is very good but I also find it strenuous in it's screaming aggression. The opening bars are wonderful but quiet. This makes me turn more volume and rest of the symphony is very loud.
(Naxos)

The first symphony didn't make me want more. I don't have a need to explore more Walton.  ???
Before you totally give up perhaps you might want to investigate his violin/viola concertos, if I might rec Kennedy/Previn EMI. You may have a change of heart......
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: 71 dB on April 16, 2007, 11:28:06 AM
Quote from: Robert on April 16, 2007, 11:22:56 AM
Before you totally give up perhaps you might want to investigate his violin/viola concertos, if I might rec Kennedy/Previn EMI. You may have a change of heart......

I am not giving up. Those concertos is one option, of course. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: hautbois on April 23, 2007, 08:40:37 PM
I must admit that i have yet to venture into more works by English composers (Britten, RVW, Walton to name a few), maybe their chamber music for oboe and some of the more popular works like Peter Grimes or the Young Person's Guide or say the Fantasy on Greensleeves. I recently heard Walton's violin concerto live and i gotta say that i didn't enjoy it much. Perhaps some recommendations for his more easily accessible works and recordings? Henry V? I know EMI has a huge catelogue from the old school English conductos with orchestra such as the LPO, Philharmonia and Halle, but i have no idea where to start. Thankyou!

Howard
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on April 24, 2007, 07:13:03 AM
What didn't you enjoy about the violin concerto?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: bhodges on April 24, 2007, 09:28:40 AM
If you like big works for chorus and orchestra, definitely check out Belshazzar's Feast, which is loads of fun.  I like Andrew Litton's version, with Bryn Terfel in the solo part. 

And if you like chamber music, his String Quartet in A Minor is well worth investigating.  I have this one by the Endellion String Quartet, and played the Walton a lot when I first got the recording. 

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/10/97/f4f0224128a09d4ae6eea010._AA240_.L.jpg)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: hautbois on April 24, 2007, 09:43:35 AM
Quote from: Guido on April 24, 2007, 07:13:03 AM
What didn't you enjoy about the violin concerto?

Maybe it was the violinist, but i remember feeling completely thrown off a couple of times when the writing seems to accumulate to a certain degree of beauty or climax then comes down and completely dissappears. The annoying thing is that it happens frequently and within short intervals, nothing much of a focal point is created, and thus nothing interesting happens because it sounds rather confusing! Of course, it is virtuoistic bla bla bla but i really like beautiful music more.  :D

Howard
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Wanderer on April 24, 2007, 01:14:33 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 24, 2007, 09:28:40 AM
If you like big works for chorus and orchestra, definitely check out Belshazzar's Feast, which is loads of fun.  I like Andrew Litton's version, with Bryn Terfel in the solo part. 

I enthusiastically second this suggestion.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Novi on April 24, 2007, 01:37:49 PM
Quote from: bhodges on April 24, 2007, 09:28:40 AM
If you like big works for chorus and orchestra, definitely check out Belshazzar's Feast, which is loads of fun.  I like Andrew Litton's version, with Bryn Terfel in the solo part. 

--Bruce

It certainly is! I went to a performance of this this past weekend and while there have been better performances, it was certainly enthusiastically sung and a whole lot of fun ....

SLAIN!!!!!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: tjguitar on April 24, 2007, 03:36:03 PM
I enjoy his two symphoonies.  Some good recordings on EMI and Naxos but the orchestras/conductors escape me.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Bogey on April 24, 2007, 03:51:57 PM
This is in my purchase queue:

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0777XB9L._AA240_.jpg)

Samples here:

http://www.amazon.com/Sir-William-Waltons-Film-Music/dp/B000000AL8/ref=sr_1_3/102-7134284-2880939?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177458593&sr=1-3
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: tjguitar on April 24, 2007, 06:25:09 PM
Quote from: Bill on April 24, 2007, 03:51:57 PM
This is in my purchase queue:

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0777XB9L._AA240_.jpg)

Samples here:

http://www.amazon.com/Sir-William-Waltons-Film-Music/dp/B000000AL8/ref=sr_1_3/102-7134284-2880939?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177458593&sr=1-3


That's a good disc.


TJ
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on April 25, 2007, 01:39:38 AM
Symphony No 1 is magnificent.  The Viola Concerto is better than the Violin Concerto. Music for Henry V

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Scenes-Henry-Richard-III/dp/B00004LCB6/ref=sr_1_5/026-0945451-0042845?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177493931&sr=1-5
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on April 27, 2007, 10:25:20 AM
The first Symphony is an absolute stunner - incredibly beautiful. The second is not quite so obviously appealing - it comes from a more veiled and mysterious sound world but I still enjoy it very much.

The general consensus is that the viola concerto is the best, but Walton thought the cello concerto was (and I agree!). The viola concerto is the most conventional in terms of harmony, whereas the violin concerto and cello concerto are more individual, and I would say closer to the real Walton sound, but I'm sure I will get flamed for this. All three are absolutely brilliant though (me liking the viola concerto is a recent thing though - I was dissapointed that it wasnt weird!). Get the Naxos CD for the cello and violin concerto - the best cello concerto recording going and a very good violin concerto.

http://www.amazon.com/Walton-VIOLIN-CONCERTO-CELLO/dp/B000026CUA/ref=sr_1_7/102-3810771-9378539?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177698278&sr=8-7

There is also a fabulous Sinfonia Concertante for piano and orchestra that is very early but obviously very Waltonesque and extremely beautiful.

And my final (initial) recommendation is the violin Sonata.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: tjguitar on May 16, 2007, 10:35:55 AM
Holy smokes, EMI has apparently re-issued it's Handley's 1988 recording of Walton's 1st (in the UK at least).  This is my favorite recording of the work, much better than Handley's other recording for ASV.


(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A20VQ20GL._SS500_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BTDLRY/
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2007, 03:28:11 AM
Quote from: tjguitar on May 16, 2007, 10:35:55 AM
Holy smokes, EMI has apparently re-issued it's Handley's 1988 recording of Walton's 1st (in the UK at least).  This is my favorite recording of the work, much better than Handley's other recording for ASV.


(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A20VQ20GL._SS500_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BTDLRY/

Yes, it is a great performance. Adrian Leaper's Arte Nova version with the Orchestra of Grand Canary is surprisingly effective, especially in the last movement.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/William-Walton-Symphony-Scapino-Siesta/dp/B000H7J9MG/ref=sr_1_15/026-0945451-0042845?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1179401311&sr=1-15
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Boris_G on July 12, 2007, 01:24:29 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on April 16, 2007, 11:28:06 AM
I am not giving up. Those concertos is one option, of course. Thanks!

71 dB - did you ever get around to trying those concertos?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 12, 2007, 01:51:14 PM
Quote from: Boris_G on July 12, 2007, 01:24:29 PM
71 dB - did you ever get around to trying those concertos?

Boris - forgot about this thread until your made it 'pop-up' in my postings list! I've owned that Kennedy-Previn performance since the disc first appeared, I believe - certainly a needed listening before deciding 'for or against' Walton; also have a disc of his chamber works w/ the Nash Ensemble; none of his symphonies so far - would like to see more responses & recommendations!  :D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 12, 2007, 01:56:58 PM
Try the 5 Bagatelles written for Julian Bream.  The best recording IMO is the original Bream 20th century guitar, which unfortunately has gone out of print
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Don on July 12, 2007, 01:59:16 PM
Let's not forget that Walton didn't live the exceptional life of Elgar.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Boris_G on July 12, 2007, 02:05:12 PM
Quote from: Don on July 12, 2007, 01:59:16 PM
Let's not forget that Walton didn't live the exceptional life of Elgar.

??? Not sure how to interpret this. Walton certainly was a far better composer than he was a man. His personal behaviour could be quite poisonous, as I understand it, and he was exceedingly jealous of other people's success. By comparison Elgar was certainly no saint, but did much to promote work by younger colleagues (e.g. Samuel Coleridge Taylor).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: tjguitar on July 12, 2007, 02:08:54 PM
I'm glad this got bumped. 

I've added this Walton recording and it is quite good. I still have the Naxos pictured in my first post, if nothing else for the Viola Concerto, but this is a nice alternate reading of the symphony. Tod Handley certainly was (and still is) a good interpreter of this type of music.

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A20VQ20GL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: bhodges on July 12, 2007, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: bwv 1080 on July 12, 2007, 01:56:58 PM
Try the 5 Bagatelles written for Julian Bream.  The best recording IMO is the original Bream 20th century guitar, which unfortunately has gone out of print


I just realized I have heard this piece, with Sharon Isbin.  If you have heard hers, do you still prefer the Bream?  (I haven't heard any others.)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/412EXDV8APL._AA240_.jpg)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Don on July 12, 2007, 02:17:13 PM
Quote from: Boris_G on July 12, 2007, 02:05:12 PM
??? Not sure how to interpret this. Walton certainly was a far better composer than he was a man. His personal behaviour could be quite poisonous, as I understand it, and he was exceedingly jealous of other people's success. By comparison Elgar was certainly no saint, but did much to promote work by younger colleagues (e.g. Samuel Coleridge Taylor).

Don't interpret it seriously.  I was just throwing in a 71 dB statement.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 12, 2007, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: bhodges on July 12, 2007, 02:13:57 PM
I just realized I have heard this piece, with Sharon Isbin.  If you have heard hers, do you still prefer the Bream?  (I haven't heard any others.)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/412EXDV8APL._AA240_.jpg)

--Bruce

Yes, I have this CD and prefer the Bream recording.  Isbin's playing is too nice for me - Bream's has a much stronger rhythmic drive.  The 5th Bagatelle is extremely difficult to play at the indicated tempo of 110 so the pieces do not get played as much as they deserve.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2007, 05:03:24 AM
Symphony 1 is my favourite (I have over 20 different versions on CD  :o). For a budget version I prefer Adrian Leaper's recording with the Orchestra of Grand Canary on Arte Nova to the Naxos version. Boult's unavailable Pye recording is a favourite performance, although the recording quality is poor. Hamilton Harty's 1930s premiere recording (Dutton) is a must. Sargent made a very good recording for EMI (unavailable). Walton's own EMI recording is good. Best modern recordings are by Bryden Thomson (Chandos), Ashkenazy (Decca) and Handley (EMI), pictured above. There was a v good Fremaux performance. I don't like the much admired Previn version (actually I prefer his later RPO version to the more famous earlier one).

As to other recommendations, the CD below is a favourite; a great disc:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Scenes-Henry-Richard-III/dp/B00004LCB6/ref=sr_1_3/202-9539072-0883040?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1184331299&sr=1-3
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Montpellier on July 13, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
I must admit to loving the Previn RCA recording of the Symphony 1.  I find the first three movements emotionally draining so it's nice he later added the forth to lighten things up a little.  I found it by accident in a shop and recalled Previn's handling of Vaughan Williams' 6th, so bought it.  The later Previn/Telarc recording is a tad too gentlemanly for me. 

anancho
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Kullervo on October 21, 2007, 05:58:26 PM
Bumping this thread.  ;D

I know next to nothing about this composer. Has anyone heard any of the chamber music discs on Naxos?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 22, 2007, 03:41:12 PM
Although I admire most British composers active throughout the twentieth century I am often disappointed by Walton. Clearly he was a composer of great talent and the list of his compositions whilst in his twenties and thirties contain a number of masterpieces or near masterpieces. 'Belshazzar's Feast' is an exciting and dramatic oratorio, the 1st symphony is a work of very considerable power and-at times-snarling menace. These are certainly personal favourites. After the war however there just seems to have been a long period of much more modest achievement with few works which resonate long in the memory. I try to like the Cello Concerto(1956) and the 2nd symphony(1960) but there just seems something lacking. Walton's move to take up residence on Ischia in the Bay of Naples supposedly added a 'Mediterranean warmth' to his music but-to my ears-it is more a 'Mediterranean languor', a sort of sleepy laziness. The enormous promise of the young composer seems to have dissipated. The great works which might have been expected from the older composer just don't seem to have been written.

I remember as a boy reacting violently against what my friends and I thought was a national obsession with the music of Benjamin Britten and the neglect of composers like Walton. Now however I do have to admit that Britten was a greater composer and a composer of much more depth.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2007, 12:18:22 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 22, 2007, 03:41:12 PM
Although I admire most British composers active throughout the twentieth century I am often disappointed by Walton. Clearly he was a composer of great talent and the list of his compositions whilst in his twenties and thirties contain a number of masterpieces or near masterpieces. 'Belshazzar's Feast' is an exciting and dramatic oratorio, the 1st symphony is a work of very considerable power and-at times-snarling menace. These are certainly personal favourites. After the war however there just seems to have been a long period of much more modest achievement with few works which resonate long in the memory. I try to like the Cello Concerto(1956) and the 2nd symphony(1960) but there just seems something lacking. Walton's move to take up residence on Ischia in the Bay of Naples supposedly added a 'Mediterranean warmth' to his music but-to my ears-it is more a 'Mediterranean languor', a sort of sleepy laziness. The enormous promise of the young composer seems to have dissipated. The great works which might have been expected from the older composer just don't seem to have been written.

I remember as a boy reacting violently against what my friends and I thought was a national obsession with the music of Benjamin Britten and the neglect of composers like Walton. Now however I do have to admit that Britten was a greater composer and a composer of much more depth.

Agree about "Mediterranean languor" with Walton. Still prefer him to Britten but that is probably because I listen to virtually no opera. I think that Walton's First is better than anything by Britten although I rate the War Requiem and Sinfonia da Requiem very highly. Watlon's film music is very good, especially Henry V which is a masterpiece but also As You Like It and Hamlet. Marriner's Henry V on Chandos (with Christopher Plummer) is one of the great Walton discs.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dundonnell on October 24, 2007, 07:08:52 AM
I am not a great opera fan either but there can surely be no doubt that Britten's operas are major achievements which dwarf Walton's two(?) operas.
Have to say that I also much prefer the Britten Violin Concerto to that by Walton. I always find the last movement of the Britten particularly affectingly beautiful.

Still, I had better not break my own rule of not comparing composers!! :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2007, 07:38:54 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on October 24, 2007, 07:08:52 AM
I am not a great opera fan either but there can surely be no doubt that Britten's operas are major achievements which dwarf Walton's two(?) operas.
Have to say that I also much prefer the Britten Violin Concerto to that by Walton. I always find the last movement of the Britten particularly affectingly beautiful.

Still, I had better not break my own rule of not comparing composers!! :)

Right, I must listen to the Britten which I hardly know even though I have two CDs of it (one with Rubbra Symphony 5 and another with John Veale's concerto). I much prefer Walton's Viola Concerto to the more famous Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: johnQpublic on October 24, 2007, 08:31:27 AM
Henry V is a good place start.

But I prefer the spiky, spirited overtures like Portsmith Point or Scapino as pleasant entries into Walton's world.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on June 05, 2008, 12:14:08 PM
Recommendations for a recording of Facade please!

Also Dundonnell - have you tried the Tim Hugh recording of the cello concerto on Naxos?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2008, 12:56:11 PM
Quote from: Guido on June 05, 2008, 12:14:08 PM
Recommendations for a recording of Facade please!


Historic but this CD is not to be missed for Walton fans:

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dundonnell on June 05, 2008, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: Guido on June 05, 2008, 12:14:08 PM
Recommendations for a recording of Facade please!

Also Dundonnell - have you tried the Tim Hugh recording of the cello concerto on Naxos?

I have three versions of Walton's Cello Concerto-Lynn Harrell(with Rattle), Raphael Wallfisch(with Bryden Thomson) and Gregor Piatigorsky(with Munch). All are fine performances(I think) but I remain unconvinced. Presumably you think that Tim Hugh's performance is a good one?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on June 05, 2008, 05:19:51 PM
Hugh's is without a doubt the very best, though I recommend Yo-Yo Ma's, Daniel Müller-Schott's (both with Previn) too and the Piatigorsky that you have for historical reasons. He gives this work its very strongest advocacy in my opinion and it is one of the best Naxos CDs I have heard. (He is similarly spectacular in the Bliss concerto, Finzi concerto, Holst Invocation and Britten's Cello Symphony). Not saying that he will definitely convince you if you don't like the work, but his is in my mind the finest version of the 12 that I have heard. But then I love this piece so much!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: gomro on June 05, 2008, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: hautbois on April 23, 2007, 08:40:37 PM
I must admit that i have yet to venture into more works by English composers (Britten, RVW, Walton to name a few), maybe their chamber music for oboe and some of the more popular works like Peter Grimes or the Young Person's Guide or say the Fantasy on Greensleeves. I recently heard Walton's violin concerto live and i gotta say that i didn't enjoy it much. Perhaps some recommendations for his more easily accessible works and recordings? Henry V? I know EMI has a huge catelogue from the old school English conductos with orchestra such as the LPO, Philharmonia and Halle, but i have no idea where to start. Thankyou!

Howard


I'm in this queue too; I just purchased my first Walton disc about 3 days ago. It was a Naxos disc in the used bin at the local record shop, and I haven't had the chance to hear much of it yet:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512vt2tURuL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2008, 11:53:51 PM
Quote from: gomro on June 05, 2008, 05:29:00 PM
I'm in this queue too; I just purchased my first Walton disc about 3 days ago. It was a Naxos disc in the used bin at the local record shop, and I haven't had the chance to hear much of it yet:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512vt2tURuL._SS500_.jpg)


You have made a very good choice! That is an excellent disc. The Sinfonia Concertante (effectively a piano concerto) is a fine and rather moving work, which should be better known. The Hindemith Variations is one of Walton's finest scores...a deeply satisfying work and the Spitfire Prelude is fun... a patriotic wartime contribution from Walton for a feature film: "The First of the Few", about Mitchell, the designer of the Spitfire, who battled against a fatal illness to complete his design for the famous aircraft as World War Two approached.

Next stop; Symphony No 1.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Wanderer on June 06, 2008, 01:12:57 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 05, 2008, 11:53:51 PM
You have made a very good choice! That is an excellent disc. The Sinfonia Concertante (effectively a piano concerto) is a fine and rather moving work, which should be better known. The Hindemith Variations is one of Walton's finest scores...a deeply satisfying work and the Spitfire Prelude is fun... a patriotic wartime contribution from Walton for a feature film: "The First of the Few", about Mitchell, the designer of the Spitfire, who battled against a fatal illness to complete his design for the famous aircraft as World War Two approached.

Seconded. A splendid release!


Quote from: vandermolen on June 05, 2008, 11:53:51 PM
Next stop; Symphony No 1.

No, no, no...
Next stop, Belshazzar's Feast.  8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 08, 2008, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on June 06, 2008, 01:12:57 AM
Seconded. A splendid release!


No, no, no...
Next stop, Belshazzar's Feast.  8)

No, No, No, my dear chap; Symphony No 1 definitely  ;)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Wanderer on June 08, 2008, 11:33:35 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 08, 2008, 11:01:15 AM
Symphony No 1 definitely  ;)

A temporary parting of the ways, then. See ya at the Feast!  8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 08, 2008, 02:24:05 PM
Quote from: Wanderer on June 08, 2008, 11:33:35 AM
A temporary parting of the ways, then. See ya at the Feast!  8)

;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on June 08, 2008, 03:06:12 PM
Gentlemen, please. They are not mutually exclusive - surely the best answer would be to get both right away! And the cello and violin and viola concertos.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 13, 2008, 04:43:16 AM
Quote from: Guido on June 08, 2008, 03:06:12 PM
Gentlemen, please. They are not mutually exclusive - surely the best answer would be to get both right away! And the cello and violin and viola concertos.

Excellent point!

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: drogulus on June 14, 2008, 09:18:45 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 24, 2007, 12:18:22 AM
Agree about "Mediterranean languor" with Walton. Still prefer him to Britten but that is probably because I listen to virtually no opera. I think that Walton's First is better than anything by Britten although I rate the War Requiem and Sinfonia da Requiem very highly. Watlon's film music is very good, especially Henry V which is a masterpiece but also As You Like It and Hamlet. Marriner's Henry V on Chandos (with Christopher Plummer) is one of the great Walton discs.

     It's a close call between the composers for symphonic mastery. I rate Britten's Cello Symphony very highly (I'm a recent convert).

     If you haven't heard the Szell/Cleveland Orchestra recordings of Walton (2nd Symphony, Partita, Hindemith Variations) you must run, crawl, or tunnel towards these now! (of course you probably have heard them, justly famous as they are :))

     (http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/842/xxxw.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on June 14, 2008, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: drogulus on June 14, 2008, 09:18:45 AM
I rate Britten's Cello Symphony very highly (I'm a recent convert).
:D A superb work from start to finish.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2009, 11:31:13 AM
The performance of Walton's First Symphony with this month's BBC Music Magazine (Boult,BBC SO, 1975) is as good as a performance as I know (and I have over 20 CDs of this work  ::)). It has much more urgency and tension, IMHO, that the much admired RCA Previn version or the Simon Rattle EMI recording.  The Magazine also has a nice feature on Martinu, who died 50 years ago.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on September 01, 2009, 01:58:49 AM
I love this arrangement of the Guitar Bagatelles for guitar and orchestra: http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN%209963

I'm surprised it works so well. It's a tiny bit schmaltzy perhaps, but so beautiful that I don't mind!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 02, 2009, 05:55:12 AM
Nice reissue this month:
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Guido on September 15, 2009, 07:15:52 AM
Just listened again to Walton Sinfonia Concertante - whenever I have seen this mentioned in critical literature it has always been commented that this is "not one of his better works" - they all say it, so I feel like this view has stemmed from somewhere, and has just stuck as these things tend to. Does anyone know who that assessment of the piece started with? I strongly disagree - it's a wonderful work - incredibly beautiful and though it is quite early is full of those ravishing Waltonian harmonies, has a certain grandeur and splendour that is rarely so consistently maintained in his other work, and has lots of great melodies and infectuously memorable passages. I feel like Charles Ives: "are my ears on wrong?"
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 15, 2009, 02:53:26 PM
Quote from: Guido on September 15, 2009, 07:15:52 AM
Just listened again to Walton Sinfonia Concertante - whenever I have seen this mentioned in critical literature it has always been commented that this is "not one of his better works" - they all say it, so I feel like this view has stemmed from somewhere, and has just stuck as these things tend to. Does anyone know who that assessment of the piece started with? I strongly disagree - it's a wonderful work - incredibly beautiful and though it is quite early is full of those ravishing Waltonian harmonies, has a certain grandeur and splendour that is rarely so consistently maintained in his other work, and has lots of great melodies and infectuously memorable passages. I feel like Charles Ives: "are my ears on wrong?"

I agree with you - it was the first work by Walton, after Symphony No 1 that I really liked (old World Record Club LP with Vaughan Williams Symphony No 4 -  those were the days!) Maybe the rather academic title did it no favours - infact it is a moving and powerful score.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 24, 2010, 12:11:27 AM
This is my 23rd recording of Walton's First Symphony (OCD  :-\) - it was always my favourite performance (I prefer it to the famous Previn version - it has more  urgency at the start). The problem was always the slightly muffled recording but Somm have done an excellent job on the transfer. The coupling is a terrific Belshazzar's Feast also from the 50s. This would be a great way to start investigating Walton.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 03, 2010, 03:42:29 AM
This is my 24th recording of Walton Symphony No 1 and the only one I know by an American Orchestra - the New Haven Symphony Orchestra (Walton's manuscripts are kept in the library there). It is an outstanding performance and recording. The slow movement is played slower than usual to great lyrical effect and I do not know a better performance of the second movement. This epic version has great cumulative power and greater rhythmic drive than any other recording known to me. The ending has such an affirmitive sense of home-coming - unique to this performance. Had me on the edge of my seat.

Here is a review:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/May10/Walton_NI6119.htm
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 03, 2010, 05:45:00 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 03, 2010, 03:42:29 AM
This is my 24th recording of Walton Symphony No 1

Where did you find it, Jeffrey? It doesn't seem to be available from my usual sources.

Sarge
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 03, 2010, 06:09:25 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 03, 2010, 05:45:00 AM
Where did you find it, Jeffrey? It doesn't seem to be available from my usual sources.

Sarge

Sarge,

Click on the review above and it comes up on the top right. Alternatively I think you can find it at Presto Classical - they will ship to USA I am sure.

Sixth one down:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/search.php?searchString=walton+symphony+1
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 03, 2010, 06:20:05 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 03, 2010, 06:09:25 AM
Sarge,
Click on the review above and it comes up on the top right. Alternatively I think you can find it at Presto Classical - they will ship to USA I am sure.

That would take it to the wrong side of the pond. I live in Germany :)  But thanks for the information. Your review, and MusicWeb's, make it sound a very interesting alternative to my few recordings (both Previns, Gibson, Rattle). By the way, I first heard it in 1972 at a Cleveland Orchestra concert at Severance Hall, Previn coducting. Sir William and Prince Charles were in the audience. Walton took a bow afterwards. It had been an all Walton concert: besides the Symphony, Facade (Hermione Gingold) and the Violin Concerto (Kyung Wha Chung) were peformed.

Sarge
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 03, 2010, 06:53:06 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 03, 2010, 06:20:05 AM
That would take it to the wrong side of the pond. I live in Germany :)  But thanks for the information. Your review, and MusicWeb's, make it sound a very interesting alternative to my few recordings (both Previns, Gibson, Rattle). By the way, I first heard it in 1972 at a Cleveland Orchestra concert at Severance Hall, Previn coducting. Sir William and Prince Charles were in the audience. Walton took a bow afterwards. It had been an all Walton concert: besides the Symphony, Facade (Hermione Gingold) and the Violin Concerto (Kyung Wha Chung) were peformed.

Sarge

That sounds a really interesting concert experience.  Yes, I could have realised that you were in Germany by looking at the info under your Avatar  ::)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 03, 2010, 07:07:05 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 03, 2010, 06:53:06 AM
That sounds a really interesting concert experience.  Yes, I could have realised that you were in Germany by looking at the info under your Avatar  ::)

It was an interesting concert; first time I'd heard any of those works. He and Previn were touring the States as part of Walton's 70th birthday celebration. I can't recall why Charles was there. Well, he is a classical music enthusiast, isn't he?

I spent ten years stationed in Germany (Munich, Bad Toelz, Mannheim, Heidelberg) while I was on actve duty. Fell in love with the country, and with a beautiful Fräulein. Decided to remain in Germany when I retired. The expat life suits me  8)

Sarge
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 03, 2010, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 03, 2010, 07:07:05 AM
It was an interesting concert; first time I'd heard any of those works. He and Previn were touring the States as part of Walton's 70th birthday celebration. I can't recall why Charles was there. Well, he is a classical music enthusiast, isn't he?

I spent ten years stationed in Germany (Munich, Bad Toelz, Mannheim, Heidelberg) while I was on actve duty. Fell in love with the country, and with a beautiful Fräulein. Decided to remain in Germany when I retired. The expat life suits me  8)

Sarge

Well, that sounds like a satisfactory explanation to me  :D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 04, 2010, 02:02:21 AM
I just did a count - it's actually my 25th recording of Walton's Symphony No 1 (excluding copies I have of the same recording in different transfers)  :o
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 04, 2010, 04:35:56 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 04, 2010, 02:02:21 AM
I just did a count - it's actually my 25th recording of Walton's Symphony No 1 (excluding copies I have of the same recording in different transfers)  :o

You collect Walton the way I collect Mahler ;D  We both need therapy. See you in the Compulsive Disassociative CD Collecting Disease thread.

Sarge
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 04, 2010, 06:08:50 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 04, 2010, 04:35:56 AM
You collect Walton the way I collect Mahler ;D  We both need therapy. See you in the Compulsive Disassociative CD Collecting Disease thread.

Sarge

I'm already there Sarge  :D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: karlhenning on July 08, 2010, 05:26:33 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 04, 2010, 02:02:21 AM
I just did a count - it's actually my 25th recording of Walton's Symphony No 1 (excluding copies I have of the same recording in different transfers)  :o

Sacrée vache, I should never have guessed that so many recordings of the symphony are in existence!  Of Façade, sure . . . .
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: karlhenning on July 08, 2010, 05:34:59 AM
Having now fetched this one in, I can scarce wait to wade into the symphonies.  There was one day when I was in the car and the radio was tuned to (probably) WHRB, and I switched on in the middle of the Second (I think) Symphony, found the music very exciting, was stumped in my efforts to play Guess the Composer, and was genuinely surprised to hear that it was Walton.

And here, while I've just voiced my impatience to get to the symphonies, I'm listening twice to the Hindemith Variations.  My composition teacher at Wooster played a bit of this for our final quarter of Music Theory (which was essentially ten weeks of Intro to the 20th Century).  Strong positive impression from that preview, so strong that I bought an LP with the piece on it . . . I remember not much caring for that LP (as in many other instances, could well be no fault of that performance, but just my ears being 'targeted' somewhere else).

Anyway, looking forward to making my way through this box.



(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ewW%2BJj-UL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Walton – Centenary Edition (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005YW0X?ie=UTF8&tag=goodmusicguide-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00005YW0X)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 09, 2010, 05:10:25 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 08, 2010, 05:26:33 AM
Sacrée vache, I should never have guessed that so many recordings of the symphony are in existence!  Of Façade, sure . . . .

And this is my recording No 26 of Walton's First Symphony (released later this month)  :o

Best cover picture of all.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: karlhenning on July 28, 2010, 11:26:35 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 09, 2010, 05:10:25 AM
And this is my recording No 26 of Walton's First Symphony (released later this month)  :o

Best cover picture of all.

Is any of the 26 a complete turkey? : )
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 30, 2010, 12:10:32 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 28, 2010, 11:26:35 AM
Is any of the 26 a complete turkey? : )

To be honest I was a bit disappointed with the new BIS Karl(I found it to be a bit underpowered) but I would not call it a 'complete turkey' and I shall need to listen again. I am not that keen on the versions by Litton, Slatkin (a conductor I greatly admire) and perhaps unusually I do not especially like the much hyped Previn RCA version which is usually considered the market leader. For me, Walton's 1st symphony must start with a mysterious sense of nervous intensity - Previn's version sounds too confident at the start for me - paradoxically I really like his later 'homeric' RPO version, which has had a bad press. The later Handley version on EMI is much better than the earlier version, Daniel on Naxos is not great in my view - but much praised generally. The old Boult version (just reissued on Somm) starts off in just the right way for me, although the slightly muffled recording has always been a bit problematic. BBC Music Magazine recently issued a Boult recording from the Proms which was great. The recent New Haven SO version is my No 1 choice at the moment and Sargent's old recording needs reissuing by EMI.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: karlhenning on July 30, 2010, 03:53:15 AM
Thanks; I was indeed hoping that none of the 26 might descend to turkeydom . . . but I am curious as to which recordings might be to some extent disappointing, and why.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 30, 2010, 11:33:47 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 30, 2010, 03:53:15 AM
Thanks; I was indeed hoping that none of the 26 might descend to turkeydom . . . but I am curious as to which recordings might be to some extent disappointing, and why.

I can tell within a few moments if I am going to like the performance - it has to do with the feel of the opening which IMHO must be tentative, nervously anxious and conveying a sense of slumbering power. There is a very good version (surprisingly?) by the Orchestra of Grand Canary conducted by Adrian Leaper on thesuper budget Arte Nova label. Actually, it doesn't start that well (so I have just subverted what I said earlier on!) but the performance grows in strength and has the most affirmitive and convincing conclusion of any version.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sid on July 30, 2010, 07:51:49 PM
I first started to get to know Walton's music as a teenager - I had a tape of the 1st symphony and Portsmouth Point Overture (with Slatkin). But I was in my early 20's when I borrowed a number of cd's from the local library - the Violin & Viola concertos, Henry V, and the String Quartet in A minor & I have been a fan of his music ever since. These have remained some of my favourite works by him, especially the String Quartet, which would be great to see live. I like this work, because it has not only the lyricism of the Romantics, but also the spikiness of Prokofiev and a touch of Schoenberg's pantonality. Recently, I borrowed Wispelwey's account of the Cello Concerto, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. He definitely wasn't the most innovative British composer of the time (I think Tippett was more experimental), but his music really engages me with it's contrast between wistful lyricism and abraisive spikiness...
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 31, 2010, 06:48:10 AM
Quote from: Sid on July 30, 2010, 07:51:49 PM
I first started to get to know Walton's music as a teenager - I had a tape of the 1st symphony and Portsmouth Point Overture (with Slatkin). But I was in my early 20's when I borrowed a number of cd's from the local library - the Violin & Viola concertos, Henry V, and the String Quartet in A minor & I have been a fan of his music ever since. These have remained some of my favourite works by him, especially the String Quartet, which would be great to see live. I like this work, because it has not only the lyricism of the Romantics, but also the spikiness of Prokofiev and a touch of Schoenberg's pantonality. Recently, I borrowed Wispelwey's account of the Cello Concerto, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. He definitely wasn't the most innovative British composer of the time (I think Tippett was more experimental), but his music really engages me with it's contrast between wistful lyricism and abraisive spikiness...

I hardly know the string quartet - so your post inspires me to listen to it - thanks.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 22, 2011, 05:40:28 AM
Another fine performance from Martyn Brabbins just released:

[asin]B005145XGG[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dundonnell on July 22, 2011, 06:37:22 AM
Brabbins new cd of the Walton symphonies has had rave reviews!

Apparently the idea of getting him to record the Walton had been discussed for some years. Excellent that it has turned out to be a success.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 22, 2011, 08:01:22 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 22, 2011, 06:37:22 AM
Brabbins new cd of the Walton symphonies has had rave reviews!

Apparently the idea of getting him to record the Walton had been discussed for some years. Excellent that it has turned out to be a success.

Hi Colin,

As with the Brian 'Gothic' performance Brabbins ensures that there is great rhythmic drive in the Walton - it is the best performance I have heard of the last movement of Symphony no 1 and finally demolishes the view of it as an 'afterthought' - it was very exciting listening to it. I see that another fine performance by the late Sir Charles Mackerras is also reissued on EMI; another favourite - the underrated Sargent version, which I prefer it to the LSO Previn recording, will be back as part of a Walton EMI boxed set next year.
Jeffrey
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dundonnell on July 22, 2011, 08:14:21 AM
Sorry if I have asked this before...but how do you rate Rattle in the 1st?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 22, 2011, 08:32:16 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 22, 2011, 08:14:21 AM
Sorry if I have asked this before...but how do you rate Rattle in the 1st?

Good but not my favourite - nobody would be disappointed with it I think.  The Lille SO on BIS is very disappointing (apart from the striking cover picture) so I'd avoid that one. The Mackerras on a new EMI twofer is excellent as is the Brabbins and also the New Haven SO - a terrific performance. For me the classic recording (other than Harty of course) is the  Boult 1956 Nixa-Westminster LPO version, on a great new First Hand 3 CD collection (a great set by the way). I am increasingly sounding like the classical music nutter in the 'Great Bores of the World' Private Eye cartoon of many years ago (my consolation being that the cartoonist or originator of the cartoon was clearly one himself). I remember the cartoon being reprinted, with Private Eye's permission, in 'Gramophone' under the title 'As others see us'!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on December 26, 2012, 08:03:20 AM
I've had a bit of a Walton reawakening today and bought these:

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/0034/0034571177946_600.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0084HGZKK.01.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 26, 2012, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 26, 2012, 08:03:20 AM
I've had a bit of a Walton reawakening today and bought these:

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/0034/0034571177946_600.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0084HGZKK.01.L.jpg)

Two great choices as the box includes a fine version of the Symphony No 1 by Haitink.  The Brabbins is outstanding in all respects.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on December 26, 2012, 02:32:32 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 26, 2012, 02:30:42 PM
Two great choices as the box includes a fine version of the Symphony No 1 by Haitink.  The Brabbins is outstanding in all respects.

This is good to hear, Jeffrey. I think Walton composed some good music, but he's not a composer I listen to very much.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Octave on April 30, 2013, 09:07:13 AM
Re: FACADE:

Quote from: Guido on June 05, 2008, 12:14:08 PM
Recommendations for a recording of Facade please!

In response to this old request, Vandermolen recommended the historic recording with Peter Pears and Edith Sitwell, reissued by Alto.  It looks like most if not all of that disc is available as an Eloquence disc; I've no idea how comparable the sound is.

[asin]B0043WBZPK[/asin]


I wonder if there might be any supplemental recommendations in more modern sound, as long the performance is excellent? 
I see a Marriner recording is on that EMI 12cd box (which I'm considering), but with the other pieces on that disc, I wonder if that's a truncated version of Facade?  I ran across a recommendation (maybe) of the complete work by the Melalogos Ensemble...I'm curious about that one.  I see several others, though it's not always clear if all these are complete versions of the work.  Nash Ensemble (Hyperion) is another that seems to bill itself as complete.  Any help would be appreciated!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Karl Henning on April 30, 2013, 09:29:53 AM
Walton drew two (instrumental) suites from Façade, a total of 11 of the movements (IIRC the source piece has 21 numbers, mirroring Pierrot Lunaire). Perhaps it is the suites which are included in the EMI box.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 02, 2014, 12:10:43 AM
Attended fine concert at Proms in London last night featuring an excellent performance of Walton's First Symphony BBC SO conducted by Martyn Brabbins. I was so pleased to hear this work live. I took my daughter who thought it the best classical work she has heard so far. Also featured was Ivor Gurney's moving, Elgarian 'War Elegy' and an enjoyable work for accordion and orchestra by Sally Beamish, whose Violin Concerto was not performed as the soloist was ill. I have rarely attend a concert where I enjoyed all three works but the Walton was of course the highlight.
(Shostakovich's 4th next week  :))
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 02, 2014, 08:06:50 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 02, 2014, 12:10:43 AM
Attended fine concert at Proms in London last night featuring an excellent performance of Walton's First Symphony BBC SO conducted by Martyn Brabbins. I was so pleased to hear this work live.

Lucky you, that's an awesome piece to hear live. I heard CSO do it last year under Bychkov.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 03, 2014, 01:06:03 AM
Quote from: Velimir on August 02, 2014, 08:06:50 AM
Lucky you, that's an awesome piece to hear live. I heard CSO do it last year under Bychkov.

Yes, I was lucky and it was a great performance. I was also lucky as we were moved from £15 seats to £40 ones as the Albert Hall was, surprisingly, not very full. Maybe a programme of exclusively British music had limited appeal.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
Anyone else think that Walton's Viola Concerto is a better work than the more popular and more often recorded Violin Concerto?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 10:41:37 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
Anyone else think that Walton's Viola Concerto is a better work than the more popular and more often recorded Violin Concerto?

I do have quite a fondness for his Violin Concerto. I need to re-listen to the Viola Concerto. I'll probably revisit that one tonight. Any performances you suggest I listen to, Jeffrey? I own Imai/Latham-Koenig, Power/Volkov, Tomter/Daniel, and Bashmet/Previn.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: ritter on January 07, 2015, 10:45:11 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
Anyone else think that Walton's Viola Concerto is a better work than the more popular and more often recorded Violin Concerto?
I must revisit Walton's music, which I have neglected for quite some time  :-[, but yes, I remember rating the Viola and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Cello Concerto much higher than the Violin Concerto. The latter's lushness appears to me a bit run-of-the-mill (for lack of a better term), while the Viola Concerto seems to me to offer a much more personal voice.

Cheers,

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:12:33 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 10:41:37 AM
I do have quite a fondness for his Violin Concerto. I need to re-listen to the Viola Concerto. I'll probably revisit that one tonight. Any performances you suggest I listen to, Jeffrey? I own Imai/Latham-Koenig, Power/Volkov, Tomter/Daniel, and Bashmet/Previn.

Thanks for replying John. I have just ordered a new version on Melodiya ( ???) which looks of great interest ( orange image below, if it comes out). If it was good as the Melodiya set of the VW symphonies under Svetlanov I shall be well pleased. Svetlanov also recorded Elgar's Second Symphony, so there is some interest in British music in the old USSR and Russia. I am currently playing the very fine Hyperion recording, which I would certainly recommend, with its interesting Rubbra coupling:
[asin]B00OSRIISW[/asin]
[asin]B000PKG53G[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:14:29 AM
Quote from: ritter on January 07, 2015, 10:45:11 AM
I must revisit Walton's music, which I have neglected for quite some time  :-[, but yes, I remember rating the Viola and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Cello Concerto much higher than the Violin Concerto. The latter's lushness appears to me a bit run-of-the-mill (for lack of a better term), while the Viola Concerto seems to me to offer a much more personal voice.

Cheers,

Totally agree with you. Thanks for replying.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:12:33 AM
Thanks for replying John. I have just ordered a new version on Melodiya ( ???) which looks of great interest ( orange image below, if it comes out). If it was good as the Melodiya set of the VW symphonies under Svetlanov I shall be well pleased. Svetlanov also recorded Elgar's Second Symphony, so there is some interest in British music in the old USSR and Russia. I am currently playing the very fine Hyperion recording, which I would certainly recommend, with its interesting Rubbra coupling:
[asin]B00OSRIISW[/asin]
[asin]B000PKG53G[/asin]

Don't you mean Rozhdestvensky in the RVW symphonies?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:15:24 AM
Don't you mean Rozhdestvensky in the RVW symphonies?

Yes I do, sorry about that, but it was Svetlanov I think who recorded the Elgar.
If you like historic performances/recordings this is terrific:
[asin]B000025X91[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:22:08 AM
Thanks for the recs, Jeffrey. I'll probably give that Power/Volkov performance a listen tonight (if I can actually find it). :) If not, then I have Bashmet/Previn within arms reach as we speak.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:25:31 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:22:08 AM
Thanks for the recs, Jeffrey. I'll probably give that Power/Volkov performance a listen tonight (if I can actually find it). :) If not, then I have Bashmet/Previn within arms reach as we speak.
Both are great John. The Viola Concerto is well served on CD. I also like the old Menuhin/Walton version although some, if I remember correctly, consider it too slow.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:26:15 AM
While there seems to be some influx of interest in Walton yet again, I have to say this performance of his Symphony No. 1 has completely floored me each time I listen to it:

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/26/81/0822231168126_600.jpg)

It seems that Previn's classic account with the LSO remains for many the benchmark in this symphony, but I prefer the grander sweep of Davis/LSO.

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:32:38 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:26:15 AM
While there seems to be some influx of interest in Walton yet again, I have to say this performance of his Symphony No. 1 has completely floored me each time I listen to it:

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/26/81/0822231168126_600.jpg)

It seems that Previn's classic account with the LSO remains for many the benchmark in this symphony, but I prefer the grander sweep of Davis/LSO.

I think that Previn is a great conductor (VW/Shostakovich etc etc) but I have never really been that keen on his RCA recording of Walton's 1st Symphony and actually prefer the contemporaneous Sargent recording which most critics don't like as much. For me, the opening of the symphony has to have a kind of nervous, tentative and vulnerable quality which is completely lacking in that Previn version which, to my ears, starts much too confidently. Boult in his old PYE version gets it just right as does Sargent. The Colin Davis version is excellent too. The CD below (2CDset) is available on Amazon UK at £2.99  ???.
[asin]B002HHH3X6[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2015, 11:35:54 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:18:46 AM
Yes I do, sorry about that, but it was Svetlanov I think who recorded the Elgar.

Yes, Svet in the Second...with a bizzare Russian Sea Pictures  8)

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/ngmg/ESvet.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: ritter on January 07, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:25:31 AM
Both are great John. The Viola Concerto is well served on CD. I also like the old Menuhin/Walton version although some, if I remember correctly, consider it too slow.
I don't know that many recordings of the Viola Concerto, but do own the Menuhin conducted by the composer in a long OOP "Walton conducts Walton" 4-CD set on EMI. I wasn't really impressed (it seems to me Walton wasn't as great a conductor as he was a composer  ::) )I still much prefer the first version I bought:

[asin]B000000AQE[/asin]

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:43:45 AM
Quote from: ritter on January 07, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
I don't know that many recordings of the Viola Concerto, but do own the Menuhin conducted by the composer in a long OOP "Walton conducts Walton" 4-CD set on EMI. I wasn't really impressed (it seems to me Walton wasn't as great a conductor as he was a composer  ::) )I still much prefer the first version I bought:

[asin]B000000AQE[/asin]

I have that version too (OCD 8)) and it is a great one and fine coupling + great cover painting.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:32:38 AM
I think that Previn is a great conductor (VW/Shostakovich etc etc) but I have never really been that keen on his RCA recording of Walton's 1st Symphony and actually prefer the contemporaneous Sargent recording which most critics don't like as much. For me, the opening of the symphony has to have a kind of nervous, tentative and vulnerable quality which is completely lacking in that Previn version which, to my ears, starts much too confidently. Boult in his old PYE version gets it just right as does Sargent. The Colin Davis version is excellent too. The CD below (2CDset) is available on Amazon UK at £2.99  ???.
[asin]B002HHH3X6[/asin]

I should also add that I like Alexander Gibson's Walton 1st on Chandos in addition to Davis/LSO Live. I don't think I've heard Sargent's. I'm not actually that familiar with Sargent's conducting with the exception of a few performances of other composers whose names escape me now.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2015, 11:45:35 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:43:48 AM
I should also add that I like Alexander Gibson's Walton 1st on Chandos in addition to Davis/LSO Live.

The Gibson was my first Walton First...still a favorite. JPC has the Davis for next to nothing. I think I'll grab it.

Sarge
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:46:01 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2015, 11:35:54 AM
Yes, Svet in the Second...with a bizzare Russian Sea Pictures  8)

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/ngmg/ESvet.jpg)


Sarge

Yes, but there is something very fine about his Second Symphony, complete with characteristic Soviet brass section. I love those old Soviet recordings of a British music as they are a refreshing change from usual approaches and allow you to hear the music differently.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:49:22 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2015, 11:45:35 AM
The Gibson was my first Walton First...still a favorite. JPC has the Davis for next to nothing. I think I'll grab it.

Sarge

Excellent and a good idea. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:43:48 AM
I should also add that I like Alexander Gibson's Walton 1st on Chandos in addition to Davis/LSO Live. I don't think I've heard Sargent's. I'm not actually that familiar with Sargent's conducting with the exception of a few performances of other composer whose names escape me now.

Gibson is great. I think that I have every recording of Walton's  First Symphony, maybe almost 30 including the same recording in different manifestations. It is my worst example of mad collecting disorder and includes rare recordings by Horenstein and Karajan.

On a completely separate note I had loads of school marking (grading) work to do tonight but have done nothing yet thanks to this thread. So if I get fired it will be the fault of John, Sarge and Ritter!  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:50:36 AM
On a completely separate note I had loads of school marking (grading) work to do tonight but have done nothing yet thanks to this thread. So if I get fired it will be the fault of John, Sarge and Ritter!  :)

Screw work...music rules...even if it doesn't put bread on the table  ;D ;)

Sarge
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:55:39 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
Screw work...music rules...even if it doesn't put bread on the table  ;D ;)

Sarge

Excellent point Sarge. I'd much rather be doing this.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:55:59 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:50:36 AM
Gibson is great. I think that I have every recording of Walton's  First Symphony, maybe almost 30 including the same recording in different manifestations. It is my worst example of mad collecting disorder and includes rare recordings by Horenstein and Karajan.

On a completely separate note I had loads of school marking (grading) work to do tonight but have done nothing yet thanks to this thread. So if I get fired it will be the fault of John, Sarge and Ritter!  :)

You're a mad collector like I am, so I can certainly relate. :) Oh and I'm with Sarge, screw work! Music comes first! Those kids can take rain checks. ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
Screw work...music rules...even if it doesn't put bread on the table  ;D ;)

Sarge

:P Rock on, Sarge!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: mc ukrneal on January 07, 2015, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:50:36 AM
On a completely separate note I had loads of school marking (grading) work to do tonight but have done nothing yet thanks to this thread. So if I get fired it will be the fault of John, Sarge and Ritter!  :)
I'm sure they'd all put you up for a spell...as long as you brought some Walton recordings with you... :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 11:55:59 AM
You're a mad collector like I am, so I can certainly relate. :) Oh and I'm with Sarge, screw work! Music comes first! Those kids can take rain checks. ;D
:) :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:59:02 AM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on January 07, 2015, 11:57:16 AM
I'm sure they'd all put you up for a spell...as long as you brought some Walton recordings with you... :)
Very true.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: ritter on January 07, 2015, 12:07:30 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 11:50:36 AM
On a completely separate note I had loads of school marking (grading) work to do tonight but have done nothing yet thanks to this thread. So if I get fired it will be the fault of John, Sarge and Ritter!  :)
Just allocate grades randomly... ;)

All this Walton talk has led me to listen to the Viola Concerto again, in William Primrose's 1946 recording under the composer with the Philharmonia :

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81-Cu9uxGUL._SY550_.jpg)

Waiting for the last movement, allegro moderato, which IIRC is IMHO the highlight of the whole work..
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: ritter on January 07, 2015, 12:07:30 PM
Just allocate grades randomly... ;)

All this Walton talk has lead me to listen to the Viola Concerto again, in William Primrose's 1946 recording under the composer with the Philharmonia :

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81-Cu9uxGUL._SY550_.jpg)

Waiting for the last movement, allegro moderato, which IIRC is IMHO the highlight of the whole work..

Brilliant point about grades although that is what I do anyway  8)

I have that CD too and it is terrific with the best ever version of the Sinfonia Concertante - a very underrated work of Walton's.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 12:45:44 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 12:10:55 PM
Brilliant point about grades although that is what I do anyway  8)

I have that CD too and it is terrific with the best ever version of the Sinfonia Concertante - a very underrated work of Walton's.

I often have wondered why the Sinfonia Concertante gets so very little record time. It's a great work. I prefer the more up-to-date sonics of the Naxos recording however and it also doesn't hurt that it's a superb performance. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 12:57:49 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 12:45:44 PM
I often have wondered why the Sinfonia Concertante gets so very little record time. It's a great work. I prefer the more up-to-date sonics of the Naxos recording however and it also doesn't hurt that it's a superb performance. :)

Yes, it's terrific John. I guess that it is quite short and therefore not a 'grand piano concerto' but I find it oddly moving and highly memorable.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: ritter on January 07, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
I should revisit the Sinfonia concertante...but for today, my Walton session (the Viola concerto, followed by--as reported in the WAYLTN thread--Anon in love and A Song for the Lord Mayor's table) comes to an end with this little jewel as a sort of encore:

https://www.youtube.com/v/eX4vWSHhdIw

Good night, vandermolen, John, and all fellow GMGers!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 01:26:42 PM
Quote from: ritter on January 07, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
I should revisit the Sinfonia concertante...but for today, my Walton session (the Viola concerto, followed by--as reported in the WAYLTN thread--Anon in love and A Song for the Lord Mayor's table) comes to an end with this little jewel as a sort of encore:

https://www.youtube.com/v/eX4vWSHhdIw

Good night, vandermolen, John, and all fellow GMGers!

When I tapped on the image the screen just went blank, but many thanks and good night from me too.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 07, 2015, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: ritter on January 07, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
I should revisit the Sinfonia concertante...but for today, my Walton session (the Viola concerto, followed by--as reported in the WAYLTN thread--Anon in love and A Song for the Lord Mayor's table) comes to an end with this little jewel as a sort of encore:

https://www.youtube.com/v/eX4vWSHhdIw

Good night, vandermolen, John, and all fellow GMGers!

Very nice, ritter. Good night to you as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 08, 2015, 09:06:48 PM
Agh...I never got around to listening to the Viola Concerto, but I will later on. I have pulled the Power/Volkov performance from my collection. The Rubbra works will be of interest to me as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 09, 2015, 04:08:58 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 08, 2015, 09:06:48 PM
Agh...I never got around to listening to the Viola Concerto, but I will later on. I have pulled the Power/Volkov performance from my collection. The Rubbra works will be of interest to me as well.

Am sure you'll enjoy it John.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Rons_talking on February 26, 2015, 10:06:05 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 07, 2015, 10:27:48 AM
Anyone else think that Walton's Viola Concerto is a better work than the more popular and more often recorded Violin Concerto?

How about the Cello Concerto? It was a favorite of mine when I had it on vinyl. I'll revisit the other concerti this afternoon (and put off exercise).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 26, 2015, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 26, 2015, 10:06:05 AM
How about the Cello Concerto? It was a favorite of mine when I had it on vinyl. I'll revisit the other concerti this afternoon (and put off exercise).

Fine work - I like the Tortelier recording with Paavo Berglund conducting I think.
Here it is in a fine inexpensive set as the Mackerras version of Symphony 1 is excellent too:
[asin]B004ZARWVQ[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Rons_talking on February 27, 2015, 01:19:17 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 26, 2015, 10:55:50 AM
Fine work - I like the Tortelier recording with Paavo Berglund conducting I think.
Here it is in a fine inexpensive set as the Mackerras version of Symphony 1 is excellent too:
[asin]B004ZARWVQ[/asin]

Wow! You must have a huge record collection! I can't afford to buy multiple recordings of the same work; or rather, I prefer to get something I don't already have. So it's pretty much Naxos all the way down. I live on a remote island near the Alaska panhandle so shopping can get inconvenient (I'll be here for another two years...)

I'm very impressed with the 2nd S. as well. I streamed the 1947 SQ as well and that's a terrific piece. All too often composers fall into the pattern of writing overly contrapuntal and chromatic string quartets...as if that's the only sound that can be conveyed through the group. Like Barber and RVW, Walton makes good use of lyricism and rhythm in the quartet.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 27, 2015, 05:35:46 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 27, 2015, 01:19:17 AM
Wow! You must have a huge record collection! I can't afford to buy multiple recordings of the same work; or rather, I prefer to get something I don't already have. So it's pretty much Naxos all the way down. I live on a remote island near the Alaska panhandle so shopping can get inconvenient (I'll be here for another two years...)

I'm very impressed with the 2nd S. as well. I streamed the 1947 SQ as well and that's a terrific piece. All too often composers fall into the pattern of writing overly contrapuntal and chromatic string quartets...as if that's the only sound that can be conveyed through the group. Like Barber and RVW, Walton makes good use of lyricism and rhythm in the quartet.

I have over 20 recordings of Walton's 1st Symphony - it is know as Obsessive-Compulsive CD Collecting Disorder (OCCDCD). There is a thread on it in the 'Diner' section. Your approach is far more sensible and cost-effective. The Paul Daniel Naxos recording is very fine.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Rons_talking on February 27, 2015, 07:06:06 AM
Ah! A symphony hoarder! Good thing it's not cigars...
Do you have the scores as well? I like to see just how true to the page the performers are. I believe a lot of composers get a better sounding performance than what's written if a work is performed across the board. That might sound blasphemous but they can lose sight of what is intended and the score might be micro-managed. Look at Stravinsky's super-dry performances of the early ballets (when he conducted them in the 50s) which were supposed to be a bit more lush IMO.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 27, 2015, 08:47:52 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on February 27, 2015, 07:06:06 AM
Ah! A symphony hoarder! Good thing it's not cigars...
Do you have the scores as well? I like to see just how true to the page the performers are. I believe a lot of composers get a better sounding performance than what's written if a work is performed across the board. That might sound blasphemous but they can lose sight of what is intended and the score might be micro-managed. Look at Stravinsky's super-dry performances of the early ballets (when he conducted them in the 50s) which were supposed to be a bit more lush IMO.

No, I don't have the scores as I cant read music.  :(
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Christo on February 27, 2015, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 27, 2015, 05:35:46 AMThe Paul Daniel Naxos recording is very fine.

Side remarks like this are not without risks to the lives of innocently bypassing readers, here. Am playing it now.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Peter Power Pop on February 27, 2015, 03:45:34 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 27, 2015, 05:35:46 AM
I have over 20 recordings of Walton's 1st Symphony - it is know as Obsessive-Compulsive CD Collecting Disorder (OCCDCD). There is a thread on it in the 'Diner' section.

The thread is here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.0.html)

It started out as "Compulsive Disassociative CD Collecting Disease" (CDCDCD), but morphed into "Obsessive-Compulsive CD Collecting Disorder" (OCCDCD).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 28, 2015, 03:15:40 AM
Quote from: Peter Power Pop on February 27, 2015, 03:45:34 PM
The thread is here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.0.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15426.0.html)

It started out as "Compulsive Disassociative CD Collecting Disease" (CDCDCD), but morphed into "Obsessive-Compulsive CD Collecting Disorder" (OCCDCD).

They are closely related medical conditions.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 28, 2015, 03:16:08 AM
Quote from: Christo on February 27, 2015, 12:41:42 PM
Side remarks like this are not without risks to the lives of innocently bypassing readers, here. Am playing it now.  :)
8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dax on February 28, 2015, 06:57:20 AM
I'm not particularly a Walton fan, but I've always had a lot of time for the Johannesburg Festival Overture. Anybody else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1gQhemb5L4
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 28, 2015, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Dax on February 28, 2015, 06:57:20 AM
I'm not particularly a Walton fan, but I've always had a lot of time for the Johannesburg Festival Overture. Anybody else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1gQhemb5L4

Yes, I like that work too. I have the version conducted by Sir Charles Groves:
[asin]B000005GOU[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Rons_talking on March 01, 2015, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 27, 2015, 08:47:52 AM
No, I don't have the scores as I cant read music.  :(

That's not important. It's just that you think like a conductor ;).  How do you compare Walton's own performances with those of others? Copland is the one composer whom I tend to prefer his own conducting to those of the pros. Performers I know have said he's so likable they just wanted to get their best sound. I never saw him live, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 02, 2015, 08:15:13 AM
Quote from: Rons_talking on March 01, 2015, 04:44:10 PM
That's not important. It's just that you think like a conductor ;).  How do you compare Walton's own performances with those of others? Copland is the one composer whom I tend to prefer his own conducting to those of the pros. Performers I know have said he's so likable they just wanted to get their best sound. I never saw him live, unfortunately.

Thank you  :)

Actually I did see Copland conduct Roy Harris's Third Symphony in London decades ago. I love Copland's music but did not think that the performance of the Harris was that great. I think that Copland was a great conductor of his own work and his Everest recording of Symphony 3 with the LSO is perhaps the best. For some reason he recorded a lot of his works with British orchestras. I think that the Everest recording has much more urgency than the later CBS version and is much better than Bernstein's Sony version.
As for Walton he was a fine conductor of his own music and I really like his live recording of Symphony 1 with the New Zealand SO and his account of the Henry V film music is the best too.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Christo on March 02, 2015, 09:46:02 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 02, 2015, 08:27:21 AM
One of my favorite classical miniatures.
Seconded. Always found the 'two pieces' from Henry V, the passacaglia and this little elegy, extremely moving. Bach revidivimus.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 03, 2015, 06:46:26 AM
Quote from: Christo on March 02, 2015, 09:46:02 AM
Seconded. Always found the 'two pieces' from Henry V, the passacaglia and this little elegy, extremely moving. Bach revidivimus.  :)
This is one of my very favourite Walton discs and the one I find most moving apart from the First Symphony. Not to be missed in my view.
[asin]B00004LCB6[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Scion7 on September 19, 2015, 04:56:58 PM
Listening to the variations on Hindemith tonight . . .
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 21, 2015, 08:23:59 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on September 19, 2015, 04:56:58 PM
Listening to the variations on Hindemith tonight . . .
Great work. Which recording? I like the Szell version very much.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Scion7 on September 21, 2015, 03:08:22 PM
yup, the Szell
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 21, 2015, 10:39:13 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on September 21, 2015, 03:08:22 PM
yup, the Szell
Good to hear. That is a great CD with Symphony 2 and the Partita all in best ever recorded performances in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 16, 2016, 01:03:00 AM
Bumping up this thread. Am currently greatly enjoying this super double CD. Excellent recordings and performances and great value. If you only want one (actually two) Walton CD this would be a good choice as it features his greatest orchestral scores:
[asin]B008W5TDSU[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on December 16, 2016, 06:14:03 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 16, 2016, 01:03:00 AM
Bumping up this thread. Am currently greatly enjoying this super double CD. Excellent recordings and performances and great value. If you only want one (actually two) Walton CD this would be a good choice as it features his greatest orchestral scores:
[asin]B008W5TDSU[/asin]

After many years of being on the fence with Walton, I have to say now I'm not really a fan of his music. There's something missing inside of it. It seems to me that so much of his music is surface with no kind of emotional depth. There are a few works I really enjoy like Symphony No. 1, the Violin Concerto, Sinfonia Concertante, and the Hindemith Variations. These works are the only ones I've really been taken by. I know you're not a particularly big fan of Britten, Jeffrey, but, for me, Britten is the best Brit composer of that generation (even though there's about an 11 year difference in age between Walton and Britten).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 07:04:09 AM
I must say I tend to agree with what MI has written here. There I was trying to think why I'm not attracted to his music as much as I feel I should be,and there it is spelled out in front of me. Incidentally,I'm listening to a s/h cassette of Britten's own recording of his Spring Symphony,right now. I love this. In fact,I like allot of his music. I've got the Previn recording on cd. We all like different things,though. Rumour has it,some people even like Joseph Holbrooke!! ??? ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 16, 2016, 10:16:12 AM
Thank you John and cilgwyn for your thoughtful responses. I agree that Walton has his weaknesses and many do not find his music especially engaging. For me there are a few works I am really gripped by, most notably Symphony 1, the Viola Concerto, the Sinfonia Concertante and the Henry V film music. I am coming to appreciate Symphony 2 and the Hindemith Variations more and enjoy the 'As you Like It'. Film music which is very engaging.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 01:54:28 PM
I'm ll have a listen to that emi cd of his First and Second symphonies soon! I think the Second is conducted by Sargent,and I think (I may be wrong) I might have bought the cd after reading one of your posts. I also have the famous Previn one. We'll see how I go? I think it is a powerful symphony. I'm not disputing that. It's just I find more depth in,for example,Vaughan Williams or say,Bax. Or even going back a bit further,Parry!! That said,I really do need to have a good listen to those symphonies again.

Correction! I looked it up now. Sargent conducting the First! Previn the Second. Sounds very interesting!! Hm!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 02:19:18 PM
I've found the cd. I'm enjoying Sargent's performance now! I've also been reading your comments,vandermolen,underneath the cd,on Amazon!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 02:24:17 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 13, 2007, 05:03:24 AM
Symphony 1 is my favourite (I have over 20 different versions on CD  :o). For a budget version I prefer Adrian Leaper's recording with the Orchestra of Grand Canary on Arte Nova to the Naxos version. Boult's unavailable Pye recording is a favourite performance, although the recording quality is poor. Hamilton Harty's 1930s premiere recording (Dutton) is a must. Sargent made a very good recording for EMI (unavailable). Walton's own EMI recording is good. Best modern recordings are by Bryden Thomson (Chandos), Ashkenazy (Decca) and Handley (EMI), pictured above. There was a v good Fremaux performance. I don't like the much admired Previn version (actually I prefer his later RPO version to the more famous earlier one).

As to other recommendations, the CD below is a favourite; a great disc:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Scenes-Henry-Richard-III/dp/B00004LCB6/ref=sr_1_3/202-9539072-0883040?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1184331299&sr=1-3
Interesting! I took the wrong Previn to the charity shop!! ??? ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 02:30:58 PM
I'm eating at least some of my words now. I AM enjoying listening to this!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Karl Henning on December 16, 2016, 02:44:25 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 02:30:58 PM
I'm eating at least some of my words now. I AM enjoying listening to this!

Spoken like a gentleman!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Ken B on December 16, 2016, 05:31:24 PM
The famous recording of 2 is the Szell. Justly famous too. Usually coupled with the Hindemith Variations, equally splendidly done.

I like a core of Walton very much, especially 1, the concerti (which are all masterpieces and his best stuff) the quintet, and Feast. The Henry V with reciter really is marvellous too.  All the chamber music is good. I certainly don't know any better concerti for Viola!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Heck148 on December 16, 2016, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: Ken B on December 16, 2016, 05:31:24 PM
The famous recording of 2 is the Szell. Justly famous too. Usually coupled with the Hindemith Variations, equally splendidly done.

The Partita for Orchestra is on that disc as well  - CBS Masterworks Portrait" disc. another fine performance...tough piece!!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 17, 2016, 12:42:13 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 16, 2016, 02:44:25 PM
Spoken like a gentleman!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
And still listening,right now! :-[ ::) ;D I knew I shouldn't have posted that when I posted it!! It's those  'jazzy' syncopations or whatever you composers call them? The feeling of sheer orchestral power. I love his slow movements. The Second sounds just as good to my ears. No emotion? Actually,yes. I can see what MI means. It's restrained,in a stiff upper lip British sort of way. But it's there;and like Elgar,probably all the more powerful because of it.
Come to think of it,I liked some of those Overtures,too.  I'm sure I even liked Scapino?! No third symphony,though. Nothing in the back of his sock drawer then for someone to complete? (They're never as good,anyway!) I'll have to find something similar? The John Veale Dutton cd's on the side at the ready. I've only got two Walton cds!!
:( :(
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 17, 2016, 12:59:39 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 01:54:28 PM
I'm ll have a listen to that emi cd of his First and Second symphonies soon! I think the Second is conducted by Sargent,and I think (I may be wrong) I might have bought the cd after reading one of your posts. I also have the famous Previn one. We'll see how I go? I think it is a powerful symphony. I'm not disputing that. It's just I find more depth in,for example,Vaughan Williams or say,Bax. Or even going back a bit further,Parry!! That said,I really do need to have a good listen to those symphonies again.

Correction! I looked it up now. Sargent conducting the First! Previn the Second. Sounds very interesting!! Hm!

The EMI disc is Sargent doing No. 1 and Previn No. 2 unless it is the CD with Mackerras doing both also on EMI. I prefer the Sargent to the famous Previn version. Most people prefer the first to the second Previn version, as with his recordings of Shostakovich's 8th Symphony.
Sorry - I've just read your later points. I like the Partita too, especially in the old Szell (I think - Ormandy actually) version.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 17, 2016, 01:21:06 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 16, 2016, 02:19:18 PM
I've found the cd. I'm enjoying Sargent's performance now! I've also been reading your comments,vandermolen,underneath the cd,on Amazon!

Good to know.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 17, 2016, 01:33:24 AM
Yes,it's still on!!! ;D I'm going to have to look up why you don't like the 'famous' Previn account. It's not exactly as long as the HB thread,so I should be back before I die of old age?!! (If I get there!) I must admit there is definitely one thing I didn't like about the Previn cd,and the cassette version I once owned. The Wasps! It seems such a naff choice of fill up. Not that I hate the Wasps Overture;but it just doesn't go with the Walton. I actually bought the later Previn cd because it was just Walton,and no blinking Wasps!! Then I needed to move house,so I had to get rid of some stuff,so off it went!! Someone's probably enjoying it somewhere,right now?! I know you can skip & program tracks;but I just like to bung a cd on!! ;D

Not having any other Walton cds,bar the Previn you dislike,I might just put that Veale symphony on,now. Unless the postman has something.............?!!!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 17, 2016, 03:03:06 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 17, 2016, 01:33:24 AM
Yes,it's still on!!! ;D I'm going to have to look up why you don't like the 'famous' Previn account. It's not exactly as long as the HB thread,so I should be back before I die of old age?!! (If I get there!) I must admit there is definitely one thing I didn't like about the Previn cd,and the cassette version I once owned. The Wasps! It seems such a naff choice of fill up. Not that I hate the Wasps Overture;but it just doesn't go with the Walton. I actually bought the later Previn cd because it was just Walton,and no blinking Wasps!! Then I needed to move house,so I had to get rid of some stuff,so off it went!! Someone's probably enjoying it somewhere,right now?! I know you can skip & program tracks;but I just like to bung a cd on!! ;D

Not having any other Walton cds,bar the Previn you dislike,I might just put that Veale symphony on,now. Unless the postman has something.............?!!!
The RCA Previn lacks, IMHO, urgency at the start - that oboe theme should sound tentative, fragile and expectant - it just sounds too matter of fact in my view. The original Boult version is much better. I can't stand The Wasps.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on December 17, 2016, 03:43:34 AM
Actually,The Waps is placed second on the cd. It shows how long it's been since I last played it. It's not much cop for VW! You get the second symphony as well on the emi cd,which I've been playing. I think I'll skip the Previn cd,anyway! I love those whoops from the horns in the Second symphony. Thrilling!I suppose,one problem with Walton is you can't go on a symphony cycle binge like you can with VW or Bax? Still,that's what he wrote! Listening to the Veale now,with my previous comments in mind,I can't help wishing it had been an all Veale cd. Dutton have a thing about coupling different composers. I prefer one composer to one cd,with certain exceptions. One reason why I never bought the Lyrita cd of Brian symphonies and downloaded instead. But there's me being ungrateful!! ::) ;D

NB: I typed 'The Waps' by mistake. I usually try and correct mistakes in my posts;but I quite like that one,so I'm leaving it. The Waps Overture by Vaughan Williams!! ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 17, 2016, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 17, 2016, 03:43:34 AM
Actually,The Waps is placed second on the cd. It shows how long it's been since I last played it. It's not much cop for VW! You get the second symphony as well on the emi cd,which I've been playing. I think I'll skip the Previn cd,anyway! I love those whoops from the horns in the Second symphony. Thrilling!I suppose,one problem with Walton is you can't go on a symphony cycle binge like you can with VW or Bax? Still,that's what he wrote! Listening to the Veale now,with my previous comments in mind,I can't help wishing it had been an all Veale cd. Dutton have a thing about coupling different composers. I prefer one composer to one cd,with certain exceptions. One reason why I never bought the Lyrita cd of Brian symphonies and downloaded instead. But there's me being ungrateful!! ::) ;D

NB: I typed 'The Waps' by mistake. I usually try and correct mistakes in my posts;but I quite like that one,so I'm leaving it. The Waps Overture by Vaughan Williams!! ;D
I didn't notice the typo. There is a debate as to whether the final movement of Symphony 1 is as good as the other three movements as it was composed later. I think that it works very well and actually I don't think that any of the movements are as good as the first movement which is a symphony in itself. I find the slow movement of Symphony 2 more moving than the one for Symphony 1. I am getting to like Symphony 2 much more although No.1 is Walton's masterpiece. I have every recording often in multiple copies.  ::)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Ken B on December 18, 2016, 08:00:38 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 17, 2016, 10:45:32 PM
I didn't notice the typo. There is a debate as to whether the final movement of Symphony 1 is as good as the other three movements as it was composed later. I think that it works very well and actually I don't think that any of the movements are as good as the first movement which is a symphony in itself. I find the slow movement of Symphony 2 more moving than the one for Symphony 1. I am getting to like Symphony 2 much more although No.1 is Walton's masterpiece. I have every recording often in multiple copies.  ::)

To me the first movement is as good as anything any Brit ever wrote and the fourth movement is a let down.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 18, 2016, 09:13:58 AM
Quote from: Ken B on December 18, 2016, 08:00:38 AM
To me the first movement is as good as anything any Brit ever wrote and the fourth movement is a let down.
I very much agree with you about the first movement. The end of the symphony is clearly influenced, as is Moeran's fine Symphony, by Sibelius's 5th Symphony with its spaced out explosive chords but I still think that it works well in the overall conception.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on December 18, 2016, 10:20:49 AM
From what I remember reading, Walton struggled with the completion of the last movement of Symphony No. 1. It does come across as sounding a bit 'forced' if this would be the correct adjective to use. Overall, though, it's an enjoyable symphony. I never thought the slow movement, Andante con malinconia was very memorable. I suppose I was expecting a bit something more somber and anguished.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 18, 2016, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 18, 2016, 10:20:49 AM
From what I remember reading, Walton struggled with the completion of the last movement of Symphony No. 1. It does come across as sounding a bit 'forced' if this would be the correct adjective to use. Overall, though, it's an enjoyable symphony. I never thought the slow movement, Andante con malinconia was very memorable. I suppose I was expecting a bit something more somber and anguished.
I agree about the slow movement John - I prefer the one in the underrated Second Symphony.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 20, 2017, 06:40:06 AM
I have to say that given cilgwyn's more recent enthusiasm for Walton, I should probably do a bit more listening on my part to see if the opinion I gave earlier still holds any water.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 20, 2017, 11:04:37 AM
Recently I went on a conductor binge on YouTube, in this case it was Horenstein, that sadly neglected genius of a conductor. I listened to him conducting all sorts of stuff I wouldn't normally listen to (stuff I don't like, but which he made sound much better). Walton of course I do like, and H's recording of Walton's first symphony is outstanding, makes it sound like a piece you've never heard before.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 20, 2017, 11:07:44 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on January 20, 2017, 11:04:37 AM
Recently I went on a conductor binge on YouTube, in this case it was Horenstein, that sadly neglected genius of a conductor. I listened to him conducting all sorts of stuff I wouldn't normally listen to (stuff I don't like, but which he made sound much better). Walton of course I do like, and H's recording of Walton's first symphony is outstanding, makes it sound like a piece you've never heard before.
Horenstein was a great conductor. At the age of 16 I heard him conduct Bruckner's 8th Symphony in London. A magnificent performance which was recorded on disc (Vox/Turnabout).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on February 06, 2017, 02:06:50 PM
This may surprise some...

Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 06, 2017, 01:07:03 PM
Just paid a pretty penny for this rare, OOP set, but I only owned a few single issues from it and the ones I've heard are absolutely smashing:

(http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Thomson-B-T01-2a%5BChandos-23CD%5D.jpg)

Probably the last anything I buy of Walton. Looking forward to digging into this set. Also, the fact that I bought this set brand new is quite a find.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 06, 2017, 10:29:18 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 06, 2017, 02:06:50 PM
This may surprise some...

Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread -
You have many hours of listening pleasure ahead of you with that set!
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 04, 2017, 12:55:11 PM
Today I listened to the Violin Concerto with Heifetz as soloist and the composer conducting. If there is ever such a thing as definitive this is it guys. I don't even know how soloists record something like this when there is something like this in the catalogue.

Also just found out that the Viola Concerto was premiered with Paul Hindemith as soloist ! Talk about greatness performing greatness !
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: listener on May 04, 2017, 04:30:24 PM
James Ehnes  played the viola concerto in Vancouver last week.  A comment
" After a finely-judged and moving epilogue, I firmly felt that there have been few performances of the work that combine the poise, strength and feeling contained in this one. Ehnes will make a recording with Edward Gardner in June of this year."     There are two versions, the original and a revised and shortened one, Ehnes plays the later one that has clearer orchestration.
He did not know what else would be on the disc, only that it would be part of a series.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 04, 2017, 06:06:10 PM
I prefer the lesser-known Viola Concerto to the better known Violin Concerto. Good to hear that the former was played in Vancouver. It is IMHO one of Walton's very greatest works and my favourite Viola Concerto.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 04, 2017, 06:31:42 PM
Quote from: listener on May 04, 2017, 04:30:24 PM
James Ehnes  played the viola concerto in Vancouver last week.  A comment
" After a finely-judged and moving epilogue, I firmly felt that there have been few performances of the work that combine the poise, strength and feeling contained in this one. Ehnes will make a recording with Edward Gardner in June of this year."     There are two versions, the original and a revised and shortened one, Ehnes plays the later one that has clearer orchestration.
He did not know what else would be on the disc, only that it would be part of a series.
he has already recorded the violin cto with the same orch
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on August 13, 2017, 12:14:22 PM
Wooh! ??? This is a powerful performance of Walton's First! Great to have both symphonies on one cd. Not that this is the only time it's been done!! I bought this cd,a while back,after reading a post by vandermolen (I think)?

(http://i.imgur.com/vhDedx5.jpg)

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 13, 2017, 11:14:53 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 13, 2017, 12:14:22 PM
Wooh! ??? This is a powerful performance of Walton's First! Great to have both symphonies on one cd. Not that this is the only time it's been done!! I bought this cd,a while back,after reading a post by vandermolen (I think)?

(http://i.imgur.com/vhDedx5.jpg)
One of the great Walton CDs I think. Sargent was, I think, rather underrated as a conductor. I actually prefer Sargent's recording of Walton's First Symphony to the Previn version on RCA which is usually regarded as the No.1 choice. I actually prefer Previn's later RPO version. There is more tension at the start of the Sargent performance than is the case with Previn, a conductor I greatly admire.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 18, 2017, 07:54:21 PM
Revisiting the thunderous and marvelous Symphony No. 1 in B flat minor, playing a remarkable recording: rendition by Haitink-Philharmonia Orchestra, it's definitely an English blockbuster of epic and glorious English lands, an ode to the majestic material of life (e.g. Respighi Church Windows, Barber Second Essay for orchestra, Shostakovich's Symphony No. 11 The Year 1905, Prokofiev Alexander Nevsky, Novák Toman and the Wood Nymph, Khachaturian's Symphony No. 2 The Bells, Tchaikovsky The Voyevode, Rimsky-Korsakov's Schéhérezade, Nielsen Symphony No. 5, op. 50, Tubin Symphony No. 5 in B minor, Ivanovs' Symphony No. 4 in E-flat Atlantis, Melartin - Symphony No. 3, Glière - Symphony No. 3, Braga Santos - Symphony No. 4, Hanson's Sympnony No. 2 Romantic, Franck Le Chasseur Maudit, Wagner Parsifal, Strauss Eine alpensinfonie, Moeran Symphony [nr. 1) in G minor,, Miaskovsky Symphony 17 in G-sharp minor, op. 41, Janácek Taras Bulba, Holst The Planets, op. 32,  ) and so on... (almost all that was symphonies, I suspect I like symphonies  0:)  >:D  :P  ??? ) (you know what I mean :D ):

a banquet of explossive ideas and luminous fellings about life, about to be proud of belonging a nation, about the sweet and powerful, the both good and bad things in every life, about love and hate, about happyness and sadness...

in a few words: a musical orgasm!!  :D  ???  :-[  :'( :blank: ()

Absolutely epic!!!!!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 18, 2017, 10:13:56 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on August 18, 2017, 07:54:21 PM
Revisiting the thunderous and marvelous Symphony No. 1 in B flat minor, playing a remarkable recording: rendition by Haitink-Philharmonia Orchestra, it's definitely an English blockbuster of epic and glorious English lands, an ode to the majestic material of life (e.g. Respighi Church Windows, Barber Second Essay for orchestra, Shostakovich's Symphony No. 11 The Year 1905, Prokofiev Alexander Nevsky, Novák Toman and the Wood Nymph, Khachaturian's Symphony No. 2 The Bells, Tchaikovsky The Voyevode, Rimsky-Korsakov's Schéhérezade, Nielsen Symphony No. 5, op. 50, Tubin Symphony No. 5 in B minor, Ivanovs' Symphony No. 4 in E-flat Atlantis, Melartin - Symphony No. 3, Glière - Symphony No. 3, Braga Santos - Symphony No. 4, Hanson's Sympnony No. 2 Romantic, Franck Le Chasseur Maudit, Wagner Parsifal, Strauss Eine alpensinfonie, Moeran Symphony [nr. 1) in G minor,, Miaskovsky Symphony 17 in G-sharp minor, op. 41, Janácek Taras Bulba, Holst The Planets, op. 32,  ) and so on... (almost all that was symphonies, I suspect I like symphonies  0:)  >:D  :P  ??? ) (you know what I mean :D ):

a banquet of explossive ideas and luminous fellings about life, about to be proud of belonging a nation, about the sweet and powerful, the both good and bad things in every life, about love and hate, about happyness and sadness...

in a few words: a musical orgasm!!  :D  ???  :-[  :'( :blank: ()

Absolutely epic!!!!!
I share your views on nearly all those works and am encouraged to listen to the Novak again. For my brother the Walton is about despair turning to defiance and I like that analysis. It remains one of the greatest British symphonies along IMHO opinion with the two (or three) by Elgar, Vaughan Williams's 4-6,Bax Nos.3 and 5,Arnold No.5, Moeran's Symphony, Rubbra's No.4 and 1 and 8 by Havergal Brian.
Haitink's recording is an epic performance of an epic symphony.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Christo on August 19, 2017, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 18, 2017, 10:13:56 PMI share your views on nearly all those works
Me too, am even a bit shocked to see this list.  ???
Happily, there are some differences, caused no doubt by different listening experiences; namely:
1. I love Respighi, especially his later pieces, but found the Vetrate a bit bombastic at first hearing (comparable to other war horses like the Pini and Feste Romane) and never played much attention to it since then; my Respighi favourites are the Fontane, Trittico botticelliano, Lauda per la nativitá del Signore, Metamorphoseon Modi XII, Belfagor Overture, Concerto gregoriano, La Primavera, Ciaccona, Antiche danze ed arie per liuto III, Maria egiziaca. Tell me: what am I missing (nodding at Jeffrey too: yes, it must be completely my fault).
2. The same with Tubin: find his symphonies one of the finest cycles that I know and love them dearly; but almost all more so than the trepid Fifth (that I even heard live, in Utrecht, just as I heard the Sixth and (unfinished) Eleventh in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw. Why not 4, 6, or 8?  ;)
3. For me, Miaskovsky is No. 6 and No. 27. Please tell me more about No. 17.
4. Franck, really?  :D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 20, 2017, 04:04:55 AM
Quote from: Christo on August 19, 2017, 11:43:17 AM
Me too, am even a bit shocked to see this list.  ???
Happily, there are some differences, caused no doubt by different listening experiences; namely:
1. I love Respighi, especially his later pieces, but found the Vetrate a bit bombastic at first hearing (comparable to other war horses like the Pini and Feste Romane) and never played much attention to it since then; my Respighi favourites are the Fontane, Trittico botticelliano, Lauda per la nativitá del Signore, Metamorphoseon Modi XII, Belfagor Overture, Concerto gregoriano, La Primavera, Ciaccona, Antiche danze ed arie per liuto III, Maria egiziaca. Tell me: what am I missing (nodding at Jeffrey too: yes, it must be completely my fault).
2. The same with Tubin: find his symphonies one of the finest cycles that I know and love them dearly; but almost all more so than the trepid Fifth (that I even heard live, in Utrecht, just as I heard the Sixth and (unfinished) Eleventh in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw. Why not 4, 6, or 8?  ;)
3. For me, Miaskovsky is No. 6 and No. 27. Please tell me more about No. 17.
4. Franck, really?  :D
I like all those work by Respighi too but must confess to enjoying the technicolor/Hollywood aspects of 'Church Windows', especially 'Gregory the Great'. 'Ballad of the Gnomes' is also fun. As for Tubin I enjoy the end of the slow movement of Symphony 5, especially in the Jarvi recording, but my favourites are 1-4 and 10. I know that Robert Layton thinks that no.8 is the greatest but it is not my favourite. As for Miaskovsky's 17th Symphony, written during the Stalinist Purges, it is one of my favourites too. It has a beautiful slow movement and great ending, which I find both triumphant and oddly defiant although there is no suggestion that he was following a subversive agenda. You could always get hold of the Alto CD of Symphony 17 coupled with perhaps Miaskovsky's finest symphony - the poetic and concise No.21 - and then you can read the brilliant booklet notes all about it.  8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 20, 2017, 02:17:57 PM
Quote from: Christo on August 19, 2017, 11:43:17 AM
Me too, am even a bit shocked to see this list.  ???
Happily, there are some differences, caused no doubt by different listening experiences; namely:
1. I love Respighi, especially his later pieces, but found the Vetrate a bit bombastic at first hearing (comparable to other war horses like the Pini and Feste Romane) and never played much attention to it since then; my Respighi favourites are the Fontane, Trittico botticelliano, Lauda per la nativitá del Signore, Metamorphoseon Modi XII, Belfagor Overture, Concerto gregoriano, La Primavera, Ciaccona, Antiche danze ed arie per liuto III, Maria egiziaca. Tell me: what am I missing (nodding at Jeffrey too: yes, it must be completely my fault).
2. The same with Tubin: find his symphonies one of the finest cycles that I know and love them dearly; but almost all more so than the trepid Fifth (that I even heard live, in Utrecht, just as I heard the Sixth and (unfinished) Eleventh in the Amsterdam Concertgebouw. Why not 4, 6, or 8?  ;)
3. For me, Miaskovsky is No. 6 and No. 27. Please tell me more about No. 17.
4. Franck, really?  :D


I was a little bit moved when I wrote that (I had a overdose of shocking music) :)

About Tubin, any of the 1-7 are splendid, all of them I like so MUCH!!!
The Miaskovsky's 17th has a magical slow movement, one of his finest ones.
Franck... Le Chasseur Maudit is great (maybe not bombastic), his most succesful attempt in the tone poem.


Quote from: vandermolen on August 18, 2017, 10:13:56 PM
I share your views on nearly all those works and am encouraged to listen to the Novak again. For my brother the Walton is about despair turning to defiance and I like that analysis. It remains one of the greatest British symphonies along IMHO opinion with the two (or three) by Elgar, Vaughan Williams's 4-6,Bax Nos.3 and 5,Arnold No.5, Moeran's Symphony, Rubbra's No.4 and 1 and 8 by Havergal Brian.
Haitink's recording is an epic performance of an epic symphony.

That recording is slower comparing with others. I find it more solemn, the climaxes are overwhelming, there is slightly more time to enjoy. In some works I prefer slower performances to catch some details in a better way. Fortunately, this symphony has had many excellent recordings.

Some time ago I did not listen to it and I was pleasantly shocked. It can't fail!!!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 20, 2017, 02:34:21 PM
This is also a fine performance IMO:
[asin]B004ZARWVQ[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Omicron9 on August 23, 2017, 06:55:42 AM
Big big big (big) fan of his string quartets.  Highly recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/v/vIjAud_NZZ4
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 23, 2017, 12:41:33 PM
Quote from: Omicron9 on August 23, 2017, 06:55:42 AM
Big big big (big) fan of his string quartets.  Highly recommended.

https://www.youtube.com/v/vIjAud_NZZ4

The string quartet in A minor is interesting. I prefer the version for string orchestra, though.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on November 01, 2017, 03:50:26 AM
Very much enjoying this new release - the opening of the First Symphony conveys the urgency and tension missing, IMHO, from many other versions, including, in my view, the famous Previn LSO version.
[asin]B074BLZCG7[/asin]
The performance of Symphony 2 is the best I have heard, darker, more intense and beautifully recorded. One jazzy section reminded me of Bernstein's Symphonic Dances from 'West Side Story'. Symphony 2 appears a much greater work in this performance.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on November 18, 2017, 12:00:40 AM
Last night the concert I attended in London featured 'Henry V: A Shakespeare Scenario', Christopher Palmer's adaptation of Walton's magnificent score for the war-time film 'Henry V'. It was such fun to hear it live. It was a great evening of British music as 'Riders to the Sea' by Vaughan Williams was featured in the first half. I rarely attend a concert where I greatly enjoy every work featured.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on December 26, 2017, 07:44:59 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on November 01, 2017, 03:50:26 AM
Very much enjoying this new release - the opening of the First Symphony conveys the urgency and tension missing, IMHO, from many other versions, including, in my view, the famous Previn LSO version.
[asin]B074BLZCG7[/asin]
The performance of Symphony 2 is the best I have heard, darker, more intense and beautifully recorded. One jazzy section reminded me of Bernstein's Symphonic Dances from 'West Side Story'. Symphony 2 appears a much greater work in this performance.

I echo your enthusiasm for this recording of the 1st Symphony, Jeffrey (I haven't listened to the 2nd on this disc yet). I also prefer it to the Previn RCA recording, which I don't really understand all the hype about.

P.S. Am I the only one who thinks the con malizia scherzo of the Walton 1st isn't really that malicious? Don't get me wrong - it's a great movement, but it sounds more mischevious than malicious to me. I can think of many scherzi in the symphonic repertoire that are more "malicious" - Mahler 7 and 9, Shostakovich 8 and 10, Vaughan Williams 4, 6, and 9, even Elgar 2.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on December 26, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
Quote from: kyjo on December 26, 2017, 07:44:59 AM
I echo your enthusiasm for this recording of the 1st Symphony, Jeffrey (I haven't listened to the 2nd on this disc yet). I also prefer it to the Previn RCA recording, which I don't really understand all the hype about.

P.S. Am I the only one who thinks the con malizia scherzo of the Walton 1st isn't really that malicious? Don't get me wrong - it's a great movement, but it sounds more mischevious than malicious to me. I can think of many scherzi in the symphonic repertoire that are more "malicious" - Mahler 7 and 9, Shostakovich 8 and 10, Vaughan Williams 4, 6, and 9, even Elgar 2.
I keep reading very good reviews of this disc Kyle, especially Symphony 1. The lack of mystery at the start of the much famed Previn LSOerformance ruins it for me. The oboe should IMHO sound much more 'fragile' and tentative (as it does in Boult's earlier recording) than it does in Previn's performance when it sounds too confident and matter-of-fact for my taste. Only my personal reaction of course. The Mackerras and Bryden Thomson versions are also excellent in my view. As to those who think that the final movement is an anti-climax, I disagree although none of the other movements are as good as the opening one. I prefer the slow movement of Symphony 2 to Symphony 1.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on December 26, 2017, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on December 26, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
As to those who think that the final movement is an anti-climax, I disagree although none of the other movements are as good as the opening one. I prefer the slow movement of Symphony 2 to Symphony 1.

Indeed, the first movement sets a very high bar and I agree that it is the strongest movement (the finale is very good as well despite its rather awkward ending). I also prefer the slow movement of Symphony 2 (quite magical).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on February 23, 2018, 08:25:52 AM
Walton is a new composer to me, even though I've been familiar with his name for years. But only during the last couple of weeks did I start to really listen to his music and - quite frankly, he just might be my favorite British composer so far. Belshazzar's Feast and Henry V are my favorite works from him so far. He is a truly masterful orchestrator.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 23, 2018, 12:00:12 PM
Quote from: Alberich on February 23, 2018, 08:25:52 AM
Walton is a new composer to me, even though I've been familiar with his name for years. But only during the last couple of weeks did I start to really listen to his music and - quite frankly, he just might be my favorite British composer so far. Belshazzar's Feast and Henry V are my favorite works from him so far. He is a truly masterful orchestrator.
Have you tried Symphony 1 and the Viola Concerto yet? Both fabulous works IMHO and the latter better than the more famous Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on February 24, 2018, 02:39:07 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 23, 2018, 12:00:12 PM
Have you tried Symphony 1 and the Viola Concerto yet? Both fabulous works IMHO and the latter better than the more famous Violin Concerto.

I have, actually, and liked them very much.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on February 24, 2018, 02:50:22 AM
Quote from: Alberich on February 24, 2018, 02:39:07 AM
I have, actually, and liked them very much.
Excellent! Glad to hear that.

Other recommendations:

Sinfonia Concertante: a kind of piano concerto which I like very much.
'As You Like It' Film Music and 'Hamlet' film music (you can find them on the same CD).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: amw on February 27, 2018, 01:19:34 AM
The one piece by Walton that I like is the Piano Quartet, 1921. It was the 19 year old composer's first real success iirc, and it has a youthful energy and elegance and approachability that I don't think he ever managed to achieve again.

Does anyone have any recording recs? I have the Nash Ensemble on Hyperion, which is very fine, and have been eyeing the Maggini Quartet w Peter Donohue.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Omicron9 on March 01, 2018, 08:03:47 AM
My favorites of Walton's are the string quartets.  Yet they seem to somehow get overlooked in his body of work.

Edit: oops... I see I previously mentioned his quartets.  My brain can be rather sieve-like. 
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on March 03, 2018, 02:40:57 PM
I had never listened to Belshazzar's Feast until recently, and it really blew me away! It gets off to a rather slow start, but it eventually becomes a really thrilling work. The jazzy, syncopated rhythms throughout are absolutely infectious, and the orchestration and choral writing is superb. I listened to this excellent recording:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Tw1XTUZzL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on March 04, 2018, 02:41:18 AM
Quote from: kyjo on March 03, 2018, 02:40:57 PM
I had never listened to Belshazzar's Feast until recently, and it really blew me away! It gets off to a rather slow start, but it eventually becomes a really thrilling work. The jazzy, syncopated rhythms throughout are absolutely infectious, and the orchestration and choral writing is superb. I listened to this excellent recording:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Tw1XTUZzL._SX425_.jpg)

Glad you liked it, my favorite work from Walton and quite possibly my favorite composition from British composer, ever.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 04, 2018, 06:03:51 AM
Quote from: kyjo on March 03, 2018, 02:40:57 PM
I had never listened to Belshazzar's Feast until recently, and it really blew me away! It gets off to a rather slow start, but it eventually becomes a really thrilling work. The jazzy, syncopated rhythms throughout are absolutely infectious, and the orchestration and choral writing is superb. I listened to this excellent recording:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Tw1XTUZzL._SX425_.jpg)

It's a nice coupling as well! Glad you liked it Kyle.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Christo on June 28, 2018, 05:47:56 AM
Quote from: Alberich on March 04, 2018, 02:41:18 AM
Glad you liked it, my favorite work from Walton and quite possibly my favorite composition from British composer, ever.
Really!  :o
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on June 28, 2018, 05:53:31 AM
Quote from: Christo on June 28, 2018, 05:47:56 AM
Really!  :o

Yes, really. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Karl Henning on June 28, 2018, 06:00:03 AM
I need to revisit Belshazzar's Feast.  When I first heard it, as an undergrad, I embraced it enthusiastically.  When I revisited it years later . . . I was puzzled at the thought of my earlier enthusiasm  8)


I really do not know how I should react to it, today.  Could be worth trying it out . . . .
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on June 28, 2018, 06:32:59 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 28, 2018, 06:00:03 AM
I need to revisit Belshazzar's Feast.  When I first heard it, as an undergrad, I embraced it enthusiastically.  When I revisited it years later . . . I was puzzled at the thought of my earlier enthusiasm  8)


I really do not know how I should react to it, today.  Could be worth trying it out . . . .

I think it makes a bigger impact in a live performance, even an amateur one, than in a recording though Previn is excellent.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on June 30, 2018, 09:13:02 AM
Belshazzar's Feast is a magnificent work, full of unbridled energy and irresistibly catchy rhythms. It gets off to a bit of slow start, but things eventually pick up in the third or fourth movement and it's a nonstop, thrilling ride from there. I can fully understand why it's possibly Alberich's favorite work by a British composer!  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 30, 2018, 04:43:14 PM
I always like to play the "Slain!" bit to unsuspecting listeners. Always makes them jump.
8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on June 30, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on June 30, 2018, 04:43:14 PM
I always like to play the "Slain!" bit to unsuspecting listeners. Always makes them jump.
8)

A creepy section indeed!  ??? 8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on July 01, 2018, 12:32:20 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on June 30, 2018, 04:43:14 PM
I always like to play the "Slain!" bit to unsuspecting listeners. Always makes them jump.
8)

At one of the Hoffnung Music Festival concerts Walton conducted an excerpt from BF - it was the single word 'Slain!'
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2018, 03:53:26 AM
The whole 'Writing on the Wall' sequence can be very powerful and creepy if performed well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Jaakko Keskinen on July 01, 2018, 05:43:05 AM
My favorite section is the "Praise ye the God of x"-section. Fascinating, awe-inspiring orchestral effects.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 01, 2018, 06:50:48 AM
Quote from: Alberich on July 01, 2018, 05:43:05 AM
My favorite section is the "Praise ye the God of x"-section. Fascinating, awe-inspiring orchestral effects.

Yes, that's a very exciting section of the score.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: calyptorhynchus on July 01, 2018, 02:38:27 PM
There aren't too many scores in the choral tradition that begin with invoking castration anxiety:

"Thus spake Isaiah: the sons that thou shalt beget shall be taken away and be eunuchs in the palace of the King of Babylon"

:-[

My other favourite bit is the exhultation over fallen Babylon. Magnificently pitiless.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 04, 2018, 03:42:13 AM
I enjoyed listening to the 1943 recording of Belshazzar's Feat with Dennis Noble,yesterday. I also listened to the recording of his First Symphony by Hamilton Harty. I hadn't listened to the 1943 recording of Belshazzar before (Well,not properly!). I must admit I got the recordings off one of those vinyl blogs. I will buy cd's of them,when I've got enough spare dosh. I find myself enjoying Walton's music more and more these days. I even like his Facade! The one with Constant Lambert is my favourite! I like it without the words,too! I also listened to his Scapino Comedy Overture,which I've always liked,and his Sinfonia Concertante,which is new to me! I believe these were conducted by Walton,too? I'll have to look. They sounded old! I don't find his Second Symphony a let down after the First. I think it's a very fine symphony. I particularly like the second movement. They're both great,imho! :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Maestro267 on July 04, 2018, 07:55:48 AM
The two symphonies are products of two totally different eras, so they shouldn't really be compared to each other. They should be appreciated as their own individual creations.

I agree about Belshazzar's Feast, in that it takes a while for it to get going, but when it does, hold on to your hats! The "Praise ye" section provides opportunity for Walton to pull out the orchestral effects, including the anvil, and striking a tam-tam with a triangle beater, and I love the anecdote about Beecham (I think) telling Walton that "as you're not going to hear the work very often, you might as well chuck in a couple of brass bands!"
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2018, 10:51:34 AM
I've learnt to appreciate the Second Symphony more in recent years, especially the slow movement. I do, however, think that the First Symphony is an incomparably greater work. Having said that I don't think any of the other movements is the equal of the opening movement which could be a short symphony in itself along the lines of Samuel Barber's First Symphony - in his case I now enjoy his Symphony 2 as much as Symphony in One Movement. I don't regard the last movement of Walton's First Movement as some kind of 'after thought' as he had trouble completing the score. I think that it represents a fine conclusion to a great work. I prefer the slow movement of Symphony 2 to the one in the First Symphony. Cilgwyn is right about those pioneering early recordings of British symphonies. Hamilton Harty's recording of the First Symphony has an urgency unlike any other version and it was linked on Dutton with a fine version of the Viola Concerto which I think is a much better work than the better known Violin Concerto. That Harty version ranks with Heward's recording of Moeran's Symphony and Barbirolli's of Bax's Third Symphony as perhaps the greatest performances of this works on disc.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 05, 2018, 04:33:19 AM
By the way,was the Szell recording of the Second symphony the first commercial recording? If so,what was the first British (commercial) recording? I was reading just now,that the initial reception was so lukewarm,that emi cancelled a planned recording. Who was going to conduct that? I've only,recently,found myself really getting "into" Walton,although I have known allot of his music,for years. I think I was more into other composers like VW,Elgar,Bax,Moeran,Brian (among others). I think the emi cd (recommended by you) of his First and Second symphonies (Sargent/Previn) was the one that finally,"did it" for me?!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 05, 2018, 05:06:38 AM
I'm going to look these things up when I've got the time. I'll hazard a guess,it was the Szell? If I wasn't so busy I'd look it up. I haven't heard the Szell. I wonder what vandermolen thinks of that recording? I must admit,I tend to be put off some of his recordings by the dry acoustic . His Beethoven symphonies,which are highly rated by some,also felt a bit under-powered after Wyn Morris' fiery readings. I couldn't really see what all the fuss was about?! The box is in a nice slimline case,though! That said,I did enjoy his Ninth! But I digress!! ::)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on July 05, 2018, 05:30:21 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 04, 2018, 07:55:48 AM
The two symphonies are products of two totally different eras, so they shouldn't really be compared to each other. They should be appreciated as their own individual creations.

I agree about Belshazzar's Feast, in that it takes a while for it to get going, but when it does, hold on to your hats! The "Praise ye" section provides opportunity for Walton to pull out the orchestral effects, including the anvil, and striking a tam-tam with a triangle beater, and I love the anecdote about Beecham (I think) telling Walton that "as you're not going to hear the work very often, you might as well chuck in a couple of brass bands!"

The first performance of Belshazzar shows two sides of Beecham's character. The BBC commissioned Walton to write a chamber cantata and refused to perform the result. Beecham stepped in and raised the finance to perform the work at the Leeds Festival. The Berlioz Requiem was also being performed at the festival and Walton asked Beecham if he should use extra brass as it was available. Beecham replied with something along the lines of 'why not, you'll never hear it again'.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2018, 06:18:09 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 05, 2018, 04:33:19 AM
By the way,was the Szell recording of the Second symphony the first commercial recording? If so,what was the first British (commercial) recording? I was reading just now,that the initial reception was so lukewarm,that emi cancelled a planned recording. Who was going to conduct that? I've only,recently,found myself really getting "into" Walton,although I have known allot of his music,for years. I think I was more into other composers like VW,Elgar,Bax,Moeran,Brian (among others). I think the emi cd (recommended by you) of his First and Second symphonies (Sargent/Previn) was the one that finally,"did it" for me?!

The Szell LP was available in the UK. Other than that Previn I guess. I think the Szell was the first available recording.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 05, 2018, 09:29:12 AM
I'm listening to the Previn recording of the Second symphony. It might not be on the same,white hot level of inspiration of the First (or at least parts of it) but it's still a magnificent symphony,imho,taken on it's own terms. There is some very exciting orchestration,and the slow movement is very impressive.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Karl Henning on July 05, 2018, 09:47:41 AM
I am not hearing any want of inspiration in the second symphony.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2018, 10:36:26 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 05, 2018, 09:29:12 AM
I'm listening to the Previn recording of the Second symphony. It might not be on the same,white hot level of inspiration of the First (or at least parts of it) but it's still a magnificent symphony,imho,taken on it's own terms. There is some very exciting orchestration,and the slow movement is very impressive.
+1
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 06, 2018, 04:27:48 AM
Comparisons between No's 1 & 2 aside;I love the orchestration of the Second symphony. I was looking at this on the Wikipedia entry for this symphony. The large orchestra includes military drum, snare drum, crash cymbals, suspended cymbal, bass drum, glockenspiel, vibraphone, xylophone, tambourine, bell, piano, celesta, 2 harps and strings,among all the more usual instruments. I'm no expert on orchestration,but the orchestration has a fantastic,wide-screen sound world to my ears,all of it's own. There is really something quite seductive about it! I think the final movement is probably,the weak point of the symphony,for me;but maybe I was distracted,I had allot of boring things to do yesterday! Funnily enough,looking for a follow up,because Walton didn't compose many symphonies,and I'd just listened through a slew of VW's symphonies;my follow up to Walton's Second was Bax's First!!
Incidentally,I suppose it's just me;but the 'exotic' 'sound world' of parts of Walton's Second symphony made me think of Korngold's Symphony,at times. No I'm not saying Walton sounds like Korngold!!........but that lush,wide-screen quality,some of the more 'exotic' instrumentation (not Villa-Lobos exotic,I should point out) and some of the exciting outbursts from the orchestra,particularly in the First movement. If I'd thought of that,I might have put on the Korngold next,instead of the Bax. (Not that I mind. After listening through Bax No's 1-4,I'm now listening to the Fifth. Bryden Thomson conducting the lot!).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2018, 04:58:34 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 06, 2018, 04:27:48 AM
Comparisons between No's 1 & 2 aside;I love the orchestration of the Second symphony. I was looking at this on the Wikipedia entry for this symphony. The large orchestra includes military drum, snare drum, crash cymbals, suspended cymbal, bass drum, glockenspiel, vibraphone, xylophone, tambourine, bell, piano, celesta, 2 harps and strings,among all the more usual instruments. I'm no expert on orchestration,but the orchestration has a fantastic,wide-screen sound world to my ears,all of it's own. There is really something quite seductive about it! I think the final movement is probably,the weak point of the symphony,for me;but maybe I was distracted,I had allot of boring things to do yesterday! Funnily enough,looking for a follow up,because Walton didn't compose many symphonies,and I'd just listened through a slew of VW's symphonies;my follow up to Walton's Second was Bax's First!!
Incidentally,I suppose it's just me;but the 'exotic' 'sound world' of parts of Walton's Second symphony made me think of Korngold's Symphony,at times. No I'm not saying Walton sounds like Korngold!!........but that lush,wide-screen quality,some of the more 'exotic' instrumentation (not Villa-Lobos exotic,I should point out) and some of the exciting outbursts from the orchestra,particularly in the First movement. If I'd thought of that,I might have put on the Korngold next,instead of the Bax. (Not that I mind. After listening through Bax No's 1-4,I'm now listening to the Fifth. Bryden Thomson conducting the lot!).
Korngold, Bax, Walton. Three of my favourite symphonists, although Korngold only wrote one and Walton two. I'm sure I heard Walton conduct at the proms in my youth and announce, to rapturous cheers, that he was working on a third symphony. However, I could have hallucinated this experience of wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on July 12, 2018, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 06, 2018, 04:27:48 AM
Comparisons between No's 1 & 2 aside;I love the orchestration of the Second symphony. I was looking at this on the Wikipedia entry for this symphony. The large orchestra includes military drum, snare drum, crash cymbals, suspended cymbal, bass drum, glockenspiel, vibraphone, xylophone, tambourine, bell, piano, celesta, 2 harps and strings,among all the more usual instruments. I'm no expert on orchestration,but the orchestration has a fantastic,wide-screen sound world to my ears,all of it's own. There is really something quite seductive about it! I think the final movement is probably,the weak point of the symphony,for me;but maybe I was distracted,I had allot of boring things to do yesterday! Funnily enough,looking for a follow up,because Walton didn't compose many symphonies,and I'd just listened through a slew of VW's symphonies;my follow up to Walton's Second was Bax's First!!
Incidentally,I suppose it's just me;but the 'exotic' 'sound world' of parts of Walton's Second symphony made me think of Korngold's Symphony,at times. No I'm not saying Walton sounds like Korngold!!........but that lush,wide-screen quality,some of the more 'exotic' instrumentation (not Villa-Lobos exotic,I should point out) and some of the exciting outbursts from the orchestra,particularly in the First movement. If I'd thought of that,I might have put on the Korngold next,instead of the Bax. (Not that I mind. After listening through Bax No's 1-4,I'm now listening to the Fifth. Bryden Thomson conducting the lot!).

Very much agree with your comments about the 2nd Symphony. It's a much different work than the 1st Symphony - in place of the 1st's relentless, Sibelian power, Walton treats us to a dazzlingly kaleidoscopic, unique score which deserves to be appreciated on its own terms. It's a pity that neither Walton nor Korngold composed more symphonies!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 12, 2018, 08:41:40 PM
Seeing your positive commentaries of you all, I'm encouraged to hear the 2nd symphony when time allows. What is the best recording as far as it is concerned? I only have the Ashkenazy and the Previn.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on July 12, 2018, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 12, 2018, 08:41:40 PM
Seeing your positive commentaries of you all, I'm encouraged to hear the 2nd symphony when time allows. What is the best recording as far as it is concerned? I only have the Ashkenazy and the Previn.

Haven't listened to Previn in a while, but I think Ashkenazy is good.  Szell is a classic, and I'm quite happy with Paul Daniel on Naxos.  I was also very impressed with William Boughton with the New Haven Symphony.

[asin] B00005HJU9[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2018, 10:14:39 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 12, 2018, 08:41:40 PM
Seeing your positive commentaries of you all, I'm encouraged to hear the 2nd symphony when time allows. What is the best recording as far as it is concerned? I only have the Ashkenazy and the Previn.

I don't know a bad recording of it Cesar. I agree that Szell has great urgency and Previn or Mackerras would be my other recommendations. You can get the two symphonies together on the Mackerras recording - excellent versions of both.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on July 12, 2018, 11:09:30 PM
Sony seems to be breaking out individual downloads from their big boxes.  Here's the Symphony No. 2 from their big Szell box:

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8457793--stravinsky-firebird-suite-walton-symphony-no-2
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 02:23:52 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 12, 2018, 10:14:39 PM
I don't know a bad recording of it Cesar. I agree that Szell has great urgency and Previn or Mackerras would be my other recommendations. You can get the two symphonies together on the Mackerras recording - excellent versions of both.
I have heard a rumour that you are very fond of Kirill Karabit's recording of the Second on the Onyx label;and rate it very highly?!!! Hope I've got the right Jeffrey? (He certainly has some good,and interesting,taste,anyway!)
Incidentally,I bought a s/h copy of the 2 cd emi set of Walton conducting the First symphony,Belshazzar's Feast,the Violin and Viola (I think?) concertos and Partita. I am looking forward to this. I actually don't know the Partita. Although,I may have heard it,at some time or another,and not paid much attention!! ::) ;D I also snapped up a copy of the emi British composers 5cd box set of Bliss,from a certain well known purveyor of such goods. It's going for very high prices on Amazon and ebay,now;so I just had to grab it. Oh,and the Reference recording of Arnold conducting his Overtures,a Belart cd of Boult's mono recordings of VW's 4 & 6,and,last but not least (!) the old Conifer cd of Ireland's Piano concerto,Bridge's Phantasm & Walton's Sinfonia concertante! A veritable orgy of buying!! ::) ;D Also,another ridiculous Fifties B movie on the way!! ::) (I'm a sucker for Fifties sci-fi and,some of the less repetitive,creature features & some 60's stuff,too! The Fifties is best,though,imho.as they say! S*d Star Trek!! With due respect!! ::) ;D).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 13, 2018, 03:12:59 AM
Offering a thought or two on Walton 2.  I think Szell, Mackerras & Previn remain the best versions although the Litton/BSO is very good.  Not crazy about Karabits in either symphony.  Good just not great well though the Bournemouth Orchestra play.  But then I think the Sargent/Symphony 1 that Jeffrey rates so highly flabby and lacking in anything like the tension the work needs.  Wasn't that fussed by Brabbins on Hyperion either.  I have this niggling feeling that Brabbins is never less than competent but rarely inspired.  Given Ashkenazy renowned technical limitations as a conductor the RPO do remarkably well for him.  Thomson is good on Chandos as is Gardner but the latter is again someone I find less impressive than many.  Arwel-Hughes on BIS is probably the only clunker - a rare BIS failure both musically and as a recording
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 03:43:13 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 02:23:52 AM
I have heard a rumour that you are very fond of Kirill Karabit's recording of the Second on the Onyx label;and rate it very highly?!!! Hope I've got the right Jeffrey? (He certainly has some good,and interesting,taste,anyway!)
Incidentally,I bought a s/h copy of the 2 cd emi set of Walton conducting the First symphony,Belshazzar's Feast,the Violin and Viola (I think?) concertos and Partita. I am looking forward to this. I actually don't know the Partita. Although,I may have heard it,at some time or another,and not paid much attention!! ::) ;D I also snapped up a copy of the emi British composers 5cd box set of Bliss,from a certain well known purveyor of such goods. It's going for very high prices on Amazon and ebay,now;so I just had to grab it. Oh,and the Reference recording of Arnold conducting his Overtures,a Belart cd of Boult's mono recordings of VW's 4 & 6,and,last but not least (!) the old Conifer cd of Ireland's Piano concerto,Bridge's Phantasm & Walton's Sinfonia concertante! A veritable orgy of buying!! ::) ;D Also,another ridiculous Fifties B movie on the way!! ::) (I'm a sucker for Fifties sci-fi and,some of the less repetitive,creature features & some 60's stuff,too! The Fifties is best,though,imho.as they say! S*d Star Trek!! With due respect!! ::) ;D).
You are quite right Iestyn - I did enjoy it but maybe not now one of my very favourites. I should listen again. The other recording of Symphony 1 I should have mentioned is the one by Bryden Thomson on Chandos which, in my view, does everything right - a great performance and I also have a high opinion of Ashkenazy in both symphonies (great recording too) and Edward Gardner in No 1 (I haven't heard No.2 yet). Those CDs you have purchased are all fab - the Bliss box in particular which restores the best performance of his eloquent Oboe Quintet (Melos Ensemble). Boult's Decca/Belart/Eloquence VW Symphony 6 is in a class of its own - complete with composer's speech. I love that Walton/Bridge/Ireland CD as well. The Bliss box bizarrely has two versions of Music for Strings and none of Meditations on a Theme by John Blow or Morning Heroes. Look out for the beautiful 'Soon it is Dawn' from the 'Song of Welcome' (Joan Sutherland's first recording). Delighted to see that you have finally weaned yourself away from Gilbert and Sullivan!  8)

PS that Walton conducts Walton 2 CD EMI set is excellent. He was a fine conductor of his own works. Szell's 'Partita' has more urgency but the Walton is still very fine and I enjoy those Menuhin recordings of the Viola and Violin concertos (concerti?)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 03:53:43 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 13, 2018, 03:12:59 AM
Offering a thought or two on Walton 2.  I think Szell, Mackerras & Previn remain the best versions although the Litton/BSO is very good.  Not crazy about Karabits in either symphony.  Good just not great well though the Bournemouth Orchestra play.  But then I think the Sargent/Symphony 1 that Jeffrey rates so highly flabby and lacking in anything like the tension the work needs.  Wasn't that fussed by Brabbins on Hyperion either.  I have this niggling feeling that Brabbins is never less than competent but rarely inspired.  Given Ashkenazy renowned technical limitations as a conductor the RPO do remarkably well for him.  Thomson is good on Chandos as is Gardner but the latter is again someone I find less impressive than many.  Arwel-Hughes on BIS is probably the only clunker - a rare BIS failure both musically and as a recording
Pity about the Arwel-Hughes as it has the best cover image. Actually I don't dislike those Lille performances as much as others:
[asin]B003P14P52[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 04:31:30 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 03:43:13 AM
You are quite right Iestyn - I did enjoy it but maybe not now one of my very favourites. I should listen again. The other recording of Symphony 1 I should have mentioned is the one by Bryden Thomson on Chandos which, in my view, does everything right - a great performance and I also have a high opinion of Ashkenazy in both symphonies (great recording too) and Edward Gardner in No 1 (I haven't heard No.2 yet). Those CDs you have purchased are all fab - the Bliss box in particular which restores the best performance of his eloquent Oboe Quintet (Melos Ensemble). Boult's Decca/Belart/Eloquence VW Symphony 6 is in a class of its own - complete with composer's speech. I love that Walton/Bridge/Ireland CD as well. The Bliss box bizarrely has two versions of Music for Strings and none of Meditations on a Theme by John Blow or Morning Heroes. Look out for the beautiful 'Soon it is Dawn' from the 'Song of Welcome' (Joan Sutherland's first recording). Delighted to see that you have finally weaned yourself away from Gilbert and Sullivan!  8)

PS that Walton conducts Walton 2 CD EMI set is excellent. He was a fine conductor of his own works. Szell's 'Partita' has more urgency but the Walton is still very fine and I enjoy those Menuhin recordings of the Viola and Violin concertos (concerti?)
No,I'm afraid G & S are alive and well here (well,at least in spirit!) I just listened through a pile of cd's of them!! And I'm still alive!! ::) ;D The Arnold is going to be sent back,unfortunately. Not because of the music,I might add!! Yes,how strange to leave out Morning heroes. I have never heard the Meditations,and I didn't know Handley had recorded it,until I looked for an emi recording,now. The only recording I was aware of was the Lyrita. I believe (I may be wrong?) that Dundonnell has described it as his masterpiece (?). Or,at least,one of his finest compositions. It's difficult to understand why emi couldn't have included it,and Morning Heroes?! Just one more cd,perhaps?! I haven't heard Morning Heroes,either. (Actually,I think I did hear it on the radio,once?) I'm not usually too keen on musical works with narration. I would prefer the original emi cd,without the War Requiem;but sellers keep asking huge prices (come on Music Magpie!!). I was listening to the Nimbus recording of the Colour Symphony,which was the first one I ever owned,and thinking what a wonderful piece of music it is. I would honestly rate the finale with all that timpani (I'm no expert on orchestration) one of the most viscerally,thrilling climaxes in an orchestral composition. It never fails to make me sit up straight,or,literally,put down everything I'm doing. Any composer who can create a moment like that,has to have a rare talent,of some kind,imho. I was also thinking how wonderful some of the orchestration in his Metamorphic Variations is. Some of those moments of "stillness" are quite ravishing and haunting.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 04:52:22 AM
Whooo!!! Walton's recordings of Belshazzar's Feast and his First Symphony are really thrilling,imho! Another point! It may be my excitement getting the better of me;but the sound quality of the recording of the symphony is remarkably good for it's age! Exciting!! I think the recording of Belshazzar's Feast is the most thrilling I've heard! I'm no expert on this composer,I might add! The Mene,Mene,Tekel bit is particularly gripping! I'm no expert on Walton,I might add;but I like what I'm hearing!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 04:31:30 AM
No,I'm afraid G & S are alive and well here (well,at least in spirit!) I just listened through a pile of cd's of them!! And I'm still alive!! ::) ;D The Arnold is going to be sent back,unfortunately. Not because of the music,I might add!! Yes,how strange to leave out Morning heroes. I have never heard the Meditations,and I didn't know Handley had recorded it,until I looked for an emi recording,now. The only recording I was aware of was the Lyrita. I believe (I may be wrong?) that Dundonnell has described it as his masterpiece (?). Or,at least,one of his finest compositions. It's difficult to understand why emi couldn't have included it,and Morning Heroes?! Just one more cd,perhaps?! I haven't heard Morning Heroes,either. (Actually,I think I did hear it on the radio,once?) I'm not usually too keen on musical works with narration. I would prefer the original emi cd,without the War Requiem;but sellers keep asking huge prices (come on Music Magpie!!). I was listening to the Nimbus recording of the Colour Symphony,which was the first one I ever owned,and thinking what a wonderful piece of music it is. I would honestly rate the finale with all that timpani (I'm no expert on orchestration) one of the most viscerally,thrilling climaxes in an orchestral composition. It never fails to make me sit up straight,or,literally,put down everything I'm doing. Any composer who can create a moment like that,has to have a rare talent,of some kind,imho. I was also thinking how wonderful some of the orchestration in his Metamorphic Variations is. Some of those moments of "stillness" are quite ravishing and haunting.

Interesting points. I think that the Groves 'Colour Symphony' (in the box set) is the best version, although I like Bliss's old Decca Eclipse version as well (Dutton CD - probably now available for a million pounds). The EMI Morning Heroes is by far the best. Andrew Davis's new Chandos version is let down by the puny timpani in the finale. It should a great moment - in the Groves/Westbrook version it is. By the way that version is available complete with mini reproduction of the original LP in a boxed set devoted to Groves's recordings (which includes a Colour Symphony and a fabulous Frank Bridge CD).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 04:58:39 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 04:52:22 AM
Whooo!!! Walton's recordings of Belshazzar's Feast and his First Symphony are really thrilling,imho! Another point! It may be my excitement getting the better of me;but the sound quality of the recording of the symphony is remarkably good for it's age! Exciting!! I think the recording of Belshazzar's Feast is the most thrilling I've heard! I'm no expert on this composer,I might add! The Mene,Mene,Tekel bit is particularly gripping! I'm no expert on Walton,I might add;but I like what I'm hearing!

No, I totally agree with you! I sampled the opening of Symphony 1 myself this morning (will play the whole CD in a minute) and I was surprised by the quality of the recording. It also starts with just the degree of fragile nervous tension and hesitancy which I love. The oboe tune is not 'too confident' as it is in the famous Previn version and is full of nervous tension. I think that most of my life is spent in a state of heightened nervous tension and sense of impending catastrophe, which is probably why such performances appeal to me!


Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 05:18:18 AM
I'm sure the Groves recording is superior. The Nimbus recording is the only one I know,apart from Bliss' own recording,which I have on a cd-r. I'm not sure whether the Metamorphic Variations is Bliss at his best,but there are some moments of "stillness" that really do tickle the old ear drums. The timpani in the Nimbus recording is thunderous,to my ears. It's a "first" ever recording for me,so I'm bound to like it! Groves was a dab hand in music like this so I suspect it will be my favourite,soon! The stereo emi Boult recording of Job is certainly my favourite now. Previously,my only recording was the Vernon Handley,and I was quite happy with that.....until now! I think it's still a good recording,though. I like the way my emi cd allows you to focus your mind on the one work,too. (Which is why I,originally,bought it!) That said,the Job is paired with the Concerto for two pianos,which is a truly excellent choice for a companion,imo, (what do you think?) and the first recording of this work which has truly convinced me. I think it might even be one of my favourite VW compositions,now?!! And,oh dear,I digress!! ::)

I just saw your reply. The recording of the Walton symphony sounds quite stunning to my ears. The whole performance is thrilling,too! (I must stop using that word!!) I could be a Waltonian like you,before long (not the tv program!!! ??? ;D) at this rate!!

NB: I'm going to hazard a guess that Walton's operas are not on your "favourites" list?!! ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: relm1 on July 13, 2018, 06:16:52 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 04:52:22 AM
Whooo!!! Walton's recordings of Belshazzar's Feast and his First Symphony are really thrilling,imho! Another point! It may be my excitement getting the better of me;but the sound quality of the recording of the symphony is remarkably good for it's age! Exciting!! I think the recording of Belshazzar's Feast is the most thrilling I've heard! I'm no expert on this composer,I might add! The Mene,Mene,Tekel bit is particularly gripping! I'm no expert on Walton,I might add;but I like what I'm hearing!

Which recording are you referring to?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 06:57:59 AM
Quote from: relm1 on July 13, 2018, 06:16:52 AM
Which recording are you referring to?
Not addressed to me but this one I think:
[asin]B002HHH3X6[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 07:07:47 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 13, 2018, 05:18:18 AM
I'm sure the Groves recording is superior. The Nimbus recording is the only one I know,apart from Bliss' own recording,which I have on a cd-r. I'm not sure whether the Metamorphic Variations is Bliss at his best,but there are some moments of "stillness" that really do tickle the old ear drums. The timpani in the Nimbus recording is thunderous,to my ears. It's a "first" ever recording for me,so I'm bound to like it! Groves was a dab hand in music like this so I suspect it will be my favourite,soon! The stereo emi Boult recording of Job is certainly my favourite now. Previously,my only recording was the Vernon Handley,and I was quite happy with that.....until now! I think it's still a good recording,though. I like the way my emi cd allows you to focus your mind on the one work,too. (Which is why I,originally,bought it!) That said,the Job is paired with the Concerto for two pianos,which is a truly excellent choice for a companion,imo, (what do you think?) and the first recording of this work which has truly convinced me. I think it might even be one of my favourite VW compositions,now?!! And,oh dear,I digress!! ::)

I just saw your reply. The recording of the Walton symphony sounds quite stunning to my ears. The whole performance is thrilling,too! (I must stop using that word!!) I could be a Waltonian like you,before long (not the tv program!!! ??? ;D) at this rate!!

NB: I'm going to hazard a guess that Walton's operas are not on your "favourites" list?!! ;D
No, I'm not a great fan of Walton's operas but like the incidental music. I really like his film music and that wonderful old Lawrence Olivier Henry V etc CD would be a great supplement to your double CD set. Decades ago they were all part of a rather fab 'Walton Edition' EMI boxed set (I must stop using that word - sounds too 'down with the kids' for someone of my age   ::)) Just to clarify as well that I have been referring to Walton the composer and not to 'The Waltons' TV series throughout these exchanges. I don't like the latter but I'm sure that some find it fab (oh no, there I go again). Enough of this - that VW Double PC (Vronsky/Babin/Boult) and Job combination is terrific (nearly wrote 'fab' what is wrong with me?) Barry Wordsworth's 'Job' is being reissued on Alto (from a Collins original) in September. It is the only one I enjoy as much as Boult's final studio recording. I saw Boult conduct it on VW's 100th B'day (12th October 1972) as a tinsy adolescent ( me, not Boult).

I agree the double PC in that recording is my favourite version and I also agree that it's one of VW's finest works though little performed. I like the way that the percussive qualities of the piano are emphasised in the work, especially in the two piano version.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 14, 2018, 06:12:31 PM
Thanks for the suggestions guys!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2018, 01:50:01 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 14, 2018, 06:12:31 PM
Thanks for the suggestions guys!

Always a pleasure.
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 16, 2018, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2018, 01:50:01 PM
Always a pleasure.
:)

(https://cdn.revistavanityfair.es/uploads/images/thumbs/201529/me_gusta_icono_167_863x680.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on September 20, 2018, 07:02:35 PM
At last I've found a recording of the Symphony No. 2 that has convinced me at the point of blowing me away:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/270/MI0003270862.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

A high-spirited performance with plenty of details and unsurpassed sonics. Now I've come to appreciate it with a strong sense of conviction. Brabbins and the BBC S.O. give all of them on this fiery fruition. This rendition did click on me and I consider the work almost on par with the more heroic No. 1.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 20, 2018, 10:32:05 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 20, 2018, 07:02:35 PM
At last I've found a recording of the Symphony No. 2 that has convinced me at the point of blowing me away:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/270/MI0003270862.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

A high-spirited performance with plenty of details and unsurpassed sonics. Now I've come to appreciate it with a strong sense of conviction. Brabbins and the BBC S.O. give all of them on this fiery fruition. This rendition did click on me and I consider the work almost on par with the more heroic No. 1.
How interesting Cesar! I just played this recording a couple of days ago and realised how fine it is. I agree that this recording of Symphony 2 is the best available and the Symphony 1 is excellent as well. Seeing that the Walton thread had risen back to the surface I was thinking that I must enthuse wildly about the Brabbins Hyperion CD and post an image of it - but no need to now! Like the cover painting as well.
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on September 21, 2018, 09:34:08 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 20, 2018, 10:32:05 PM
How interesting Cesar! I just played this recording a couple of days ago and realised how fine it is. I agree that this recording of Symphony 2 is the best available and the Symphony 1 is excellent as well. Seeing that the Walton thread had risen back to the surface I was thinking that I must enthuse wildly about the Brabbins Hyperion CD and post an image of it - but no need to now! Like the cover painting as well.
:)

Yes, I agree. This colorful cover art conveys an agreeable impression and makes the music even more appealing.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 22, 2018, 06:05:35 AM
Today I've listened to the recording of Symphony 1 by Kiril Karabits with the Bournemouth SO. Also excellent with just the right degree of nervous tension at the start. For some reason I often like recordings featuring this orchestra (Shostakovich Symphony 11 with Berglund for example and Malcolm Arnold's own recording of his First Symphony, which is one of my favourites of his cycle). I don't hold to view that the last movement of Walton's First Symphony is some kind of anti-climax as it was composed some time after the first three movements. On the contrary, I think that it is a fine 'despair turning to defiance' conclusion to a great symphony. Actually I don't think that any of the other movements are quite as good as the first movement and, in some respects, I prefer the slow movement of Symphony 2 to that of Symphony 1.
[asin]B074BLZCG7[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on September 22, 2018, 08:48:39 PM
That Karabits performance is a good choice, it has good playing but I find it underwhelming I'm afraid, not as exciting as Haitink or Thomson. For me, the sheer courage is a key factor in this score.

However, speaking in terms of variety, these symphonies are extremely well served on recordings and there are different conductings and playings for every taste.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 23, 2018, 01:00:40 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 22, 2018, 08:48:39 PM
That Karabits performance is a good choice, it has good playing but I find it underwhelming I'm afraid, not as exciting as Haitink or Thomson. For me, the sheer courage is a key factor in this score.

However, speaking in terms of variety, these symphonies are extremely well served on recordings and there are different conductings and playings for every taste.
Thomson's is, I agree, one of the very best. He was rather underrated (and I know that is an overused word, not least by myself) conductor - his Bax and Vaughan Williams cycles for example are very fine in my view.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on September 24, 2018, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 23, 2018, 01:00:40 AM
Thomson's is, I agree, one of the very best. He was rather underrated (and I know that is an overused word, not least by myself) conductor - his Bax and Vaughan Williams cycles for example are very fine in my view.

The Bax's Symphony No. 1 in Thomson's cycle is particularly impressive. A terrific cycle indeed. I would add his Martinu and, lately, Nielsen cycle on Chandos. Both are not the last word in performances, but I've come to appreciate them enormously. By the way, Thomson is one of my favorite conductors!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 24, 2018, 11:49:30 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 24, 2018, 02:14:46 PM
The Bax's Symphony No. 1 in Thomson's cycle is particularly impressive. A terrific cycle indeed. I would add his Martinu and, lately, Nielsen cycle on Chandos. Both are not the last word in performances, but I've come to appreciate them enormously. By the way, Thomson is one of my favorite conductors!

Me too Cesar. I also have the fine Martinu and Nielsen cycles. His recording of VW Symphony 6 on Chandos was the No.1 choice in a book I have of the 'Best 1000 Classical CDs'.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 03, 2018, 08:22:43 AM
I recently acquired this second-hand as I'd enjoyed the same forces recording of Walton's Symphony 1. The version of Symphony 2 here is fine but not as urgently incisive as the recent Brabbins recording on Hyperion. However the Viola Concerto is given a wonderful performance - as good as any I know. I much prefer it to the Violin Concerto.
[asin]B00O43D92U[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on October 04, 2018, 05:11:32 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 03, 2018, 08:22:43 AM
I recently acquired this second-hand as I'd enjoyed the same forces recording of Walton's Symphony 1. The version of Symphony 2 here is fine but not as urgently incisive as the recent Brabbins recording on Hyperion. However the Viola Concerto is given a wonderful performance - as good as any I know. I much prefer it to the Violin Concerto.
[asin]B00O43D92U[/asin]
Thanks i downloaded it. It states on the NHSO site that release is part of a three volume release. I  didn't see the 3rd disc released.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 04, 2018, 07:01:52 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on October 04, 2018, 05:11:32 AM
Thanks i downloaded it. It states on the NHSO site that release is part of a three volume release. I  didn't see the 3rd disc released.

My pleasure. I'm not aware of a third release either. Maybe it will feature the Cello Concerto, if it ever appears, and the fine Sinfonia-Concertante for Piano and Orchestra, which I like very much.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2019, 08:17:37 PM
I figured I would resurrect this thread and cross-post this from the 'Purchases' thread:

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2019, 04:59:09 PM
I bought some Walton, too, Andre and one other recording:

(https://img.discogs.com/k_NReleNZ-exFi_evmESnDotnp8=/fit-in/600x615/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5035093-1505154129-9668.jpeg.jpg) (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571173405.png)

The Violin Sonata made a rather large impression on me when I heard it years ago. My understanding was it was written under dire circumstances. Walton lost a woman who was a romantic companion during the writing of the piece, so this gives the piece an added emotional weight. Of course, I absolutely adore the Violin Concerto and have heard Chung's performance numerous times. I have it in another iteration, but can't find it at the moment and don't feel like looking for it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 15, 2019, 09:47:37 PM
Looking through my Walton collection, it's rather large. I forgot I owned the EMI (Warner Classics) Collector's Edition. This must be a treasure trove of great performances. I also own almost all of the Chandos series with the exception of some that I didn't want. Can't wait to get back into Walton and it seems I've got a lot to keep me busy.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 15, 2019, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2019, 09:47:37 PM
Looking through my Walton collection, it's rather large. I forgot I owned the EMI (Warner Classics) Collector's Edition. This must be a treasure trove of great performances. I also own almost all of the Chandos series with the exception of some that I didn't want. Can't wait to get back into Walton and it seems I've got a lot to keep me busy.

Yes, that Warner set should keep you very entertained John! It's a great set. On a separate note I much prefer the Viola Concerto to the Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 04:57:52 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 15, 2019, 10:38:36 PM
Yes, that Warner set should keep you very entertained John! It's a great set. On a separate note I much prefer the Viola Concerto to the Violin Concerto.

Yes, I know you prefer the Viola Concerto to the Violin Concerto. You've mentioned this many times before, Jeffrey. ;)

Edit: I also own the Naxos Walton series which was 'okay' but not up to the one on Chandos, IMHO.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 05:01:29 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 20, 2018, 07:02:35 PM
At last I've found a recording of the Symphony No. 2 that has convinced me at the point of blowing me away:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/270/MI0003270862.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

A high-spirited performance with plenty of details and unsurpassed sonics. Now I've come to appreciate it with a strong sense of conviction. Brabbins and the BBC S.O. give all of them on this fiery fruition. This rendition did click on me and I consider the work almost on par with the more heroic No. 1.

That is a great recording right there. I should revisit it at some juncture. Symphony No. 2 always struck me as one of the more underrated works in Walton's oeuvre.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 06:14:56 AM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 05:56:07 AM
Just bought:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/eMUAAOSwr8xZ~e9p/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 16, 2019, 07:06:35 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 05:01:29 AM
That is a great recording right there. I should revisit it at some juncture. Symphony No. 2 always struck me as one of the more underrated works in Walton's oeuvre.

I must listen to this disc again.  I remember it being received very well indeed and my remembered impression was "good but nothing exceptionally exceptional".  I agree about Symphony 2 - there are several performances I enjoy starting with the remarkable Szell but also Previn's version and Mackerras amongst others..
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 07:22:16 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 16, 2019, 07:06:35 AM
I must listen to this disc again.  I remember it being received very well indeed and my remembered impression was "good but nothing exceptionally exceptional".  I agree about Symphony 2 - there are several performances I enjoy starting with the remarkable Szell but also Previn's version and Mackerras amongst others..

What I like about Brabbins' style or approach in general seems that he's coming from a different angle to the music he conducts. His RVW has proven this rather well. I'll have to listen to the Previn at some point. I'm not a huge Mackerras fan except in Czech repertoire, so I'll ignore his performance. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2019, 10:41:05 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 06:14:56 AM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread -
A great album - all three works.
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 16, 2019, 06:19:43 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 16, 2019, 10:41:05 AM
A great album - all three works.
:)

Yeah, I've read nothing great things about Szell's performance of Walton's 2nd. Can't wait to hear it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Brian on May 17, 2019, 06:41:30 AM
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on August 02, 2014, 08:06:50 AM
Lucky you, that's an awesome piece to hear live. I heard CSO do it last year under Bychkov.
Got to see it live here in Dallas this year under Carlos Kalmar. It really is a thriller live, especially if you accidentally score seats in the third row and the climaxes just about blow your eardrums out. Might have to wait another 15 years to see it live again, but when the chance arises, I will.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Brian on May 17, 2019, 07:07:30 AM
Just read through this whole thread looking to see if anyone had praised the "Capriccio burlesco," a short 7 minute piece which I stumbled on the other day and found absolutely terrific. Would make a good concert opener, or maybe an opener to the second half - it's short, punchy, has lots of big brass, and is a lot like the sound-world of the First Symphony, to the point where it seems like it could have been a substitute for that symphony's scherzo.

Quote from: Ken B on December 18, 2016, 08:00:38 AM
To me the first movement is as good as anything any Brit ever wrote and the fourth movement is a let down.

I judge recordings of Walton 1 on just two criteria: excitement, and whether the finale sounds like it belongs or not. The very best performances convince me that the finale fits and succeeds, but it does take a lot of interpretive work to get to that point. The real problem with the symphony, I think, is that even if you get the finale to work convincingly, the slow movement just is not that special. All the fun stuff is loud and fast.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 17, 2019, 07:54:54 AM
Quote from: Brian on May 17, 2019, 07:07:30 AM
Just read through this whole thread looking to see if anyone had praised the "Capriccio burlesco," a short 7 minute piece which I stumbled on the other day and found absolutely terrific. Would make a good concert opener, or maybe an opener to the second half - it's short, punchy, has lots of big brass, and is a lot like the sound-world of the First Symphony, to the point where it seems like it could have been a substitute for that symphony's scherzo.

I judge recordings of Walton 1 on just two criteria: excitement, and whether the finale sounds like it belongs or not. The very best performances convince me that the finale fits and succeeds, but it does take a lot of interpretive work to get to that point. The real problem with the symphony, I think, is that even if you get the finale to work convincingly, the slow movement just is not that special. All the fun stuff is loud and fast.

Capriccio burlesco is a fun piece that I agree with. What I don't agree with you about is the slow movement of first symphony. I've since come around to it and really feel that it's integral to the work's overall musical arch. A work shouldn't be all brash and bold with no relief. Walton was too smart for that. I think the slow movement is beautiful in its' understatement, but it also has this brooding quality to it that I particularly like.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 17, 2019, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 16, 2019, 10:41:05 AM
A great album - all three works.
:)



Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on May 17, 2019, 07:56:28 AM
Quote from: Brian on May 17, 2019, 06:41:30 AM
Got to see it live here in Dallas this year under Carlos Kalmar. It really is a thriller live, especially if you accidentally score seats in the third row and the climaxes just about blow your eardrums out. Might have to wait another 15 years to see it live again, but when the chance arises, I will.

It makes sense that Kalmar would do it. He did Belshazzar's Feast in Grant Park last year, and I've heard him do 3 VW symphonies over the years (with a 4th, the London, scheduled for this summer).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2019, 11:00:30 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 17, 2019, 07:54:54 AM
Capriccio burlesco is a fun piece that I agree with. What I don't agree with you about is the slow movement of first symphony. I've since come around to it and really feel that it's integral to the work's overall musical arch. A work shouldn't be all brash and bold with no relief. Walton was too smart for that. I think the slow movement is beautiful in its' understatement, but it also has this brooding quality to it that I particularly like.

Count me in as a fan of 'Capriccio Burlesco' I have a fine performances conducted by Charles Groves. I agree that Symphony 1 has the claim to be one of the greatest 20th Century symphonies. I don't actually think that any of the other movements of the symphony live quite up to the first movement which I've always thought of as a kind of mini-symphony in itself and I prefer the slow movement of the Second Symphony to that of the first. I've never had any problem with the finale which I think works perfectly.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 05:35:16 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 17, 2019, 11:00:30 PM
Count me in as a fan of 'Capriccio Burlesco' I have a fine performances conducted by Charles Groves. I agree that Symphony 1 has the claim to be one of the greatest 20th Century symphonies. I don't actually think that any of the other movements of the symphony live quite up to the first movement which I've always thought of as a kind of mini-symphony in itself and I prefer the slow movement of the Second Symphony to that of the first. I've never had any problem with the finale which I think works perfectly.

From Wikipedia:

The slow movement is in my opinion the nodal section of the work. Its structure is melodic, its character idyllic and contemplative, but in an intimately personal way, with a feeling of melancholy and of craving expectancy which is wholly removed from the "yearning" of the Romantics. It is in some ways the most significant piece of music Walton has written.

I wouldn't say it's the most significant piece of music Walton has written, but I would agree that this movement has made quite an impression on me lately. It pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Despite the sections of climatic brilliance, I find the more hushed nature of the movement to be be particularly telling. This almost gives us a window into some kind of grieving that Walton was going through. There are moments like this throughout in oeuvre that make my ears really perk up and take note of. It's almost like after the crash and bangs of what came before, he has these moments of deep contemplation. In this regard, he reminds of Elgar (in a completely different musical language of course) with the emotional ups and downs almost as if he has a musical bi-polar disorder.

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 05:40:14 AM
Here's a question for everyone: what is/are your favorite performance(s) of Belshazaar's Feast?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on May 18, 2019, 06:42:50 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 05:40:14 AM
Here's a question for everyone: what is/are your favorite performance(s) of Belshazaar's Feast?

Hull Choral Society, scratch orchestra, Raimund Herincx (bass-baritone), can't remember the conductor - thrilling performance in Hull City Hall, (ca. 1972)

Realistically, Previn/LSO & Chorus/John Shirley Quirk
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 06:53:04 AM
Quote from: Biffo on May 18, 2019, 06:42:50 AMRealistically, Previn/LSO & Chorus/John Shirley Quirk

I'd say that Previn's recording with the RPO is better than his LSO performance, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on May 18, 2019, 07:05:00 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 06:53:04 AM
I'd say that Previn's recording with the RPO is better than his LSO performance, but that's just my opinion.

I have never heard Previn/RPO. The only other version I have is Rattle, coupled with the 1st Symphony, both decent performance but neither displace Previn/LSO in both works. Never felt the need for any other recordings.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: Biffo on May 18, 2019, 07:05:00 AM
I have never heard Previn/RPO. The only other version I have is Rattle, coupled with the 1st Symphony, both decent performance but neither displace Previn/LSO in both works. Never felt the need for any other recordings.

I've acquired quite a few Belshazzar's Feast performances through the years. The latest one I bought has been Willcocks on Chandos. I've read good things about this particular performance.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 18, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 05:35:16 AM
From Wikipedia:

The slow movement is in my opinion the nodal section of the work. Its structure is melodic, its character idyllic and contemplative, but in an intimately personal way, with a feeling of melancholy and of craving expectancy which is wholly removed from the "yearning" of the Romantics. It is in some ways the most significant piece of music Walton has written.

I wouldn't say it's the most significant piece of music Walton has written, but I would agree that this movement has made quite an impression on me lately. It pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Despite the sections of climatic brilliance, I find the more hushed nature of the movement to be be particularly telling. This almost gives us a window into some kind of grieving that Walton was going through. There are moments like this throughout in oeuvre that make my ears really perk up and take note of. It's almost like after the crash and bangs of what came before, he has these moments of deep contemplation. In this regard, he reminds of Elgar (in a completely different musical language of course) with the emotional ups and downs almost as if he has a musical bi-polar disorder.

The slow movement is the perfect balance for the exhilarating and epic rest of the piece. I love it, and I like both slow movements of Walton's symphonies, and I can't decide which one is better.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 07:08:44 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 18, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
The slow movement is the perfect balance for the exhilarating and epic rest of the piece. I love it, and I like both slow movements of Walton's symphonies, and I can't decide which one is better.

Yes, indeed. I'm definitely going to get better acquainted with the 2nd symphony this weekend. I remember enjoying it rather well and didn't feel letdown by it at all as some commentators have said (i. e. it doesn't live up to the 1st symphony), but my argument is it doesn't have to. I wished Walton had composed another symphony, but perhaps he felt he had said what he wanted to say in this medium.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 01:17:41 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 05:40:14 AM
Here's a question for everyone: what is/are your favorite performance(s) of Belshazaar's Feast?
Always liked this one although it was my first encounter with the work:

Also I don't think that you can go wrong with this great double CD set which contains fine performances of the symphony and Belshazzar's Feast. Walton was a fine conductor of his own music:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 06:40:11 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 01:17:41 AM
Always liked this one although it was my first encounter with the work:

Also I don't think that you can go wrong with this great double CD set which contains fine performances of the symphony and Belshazzar's Feast. Walton was a fine conductor of his own music:
(//)

I never could count myself in the Ormandy camp, so I wouldn't bother listening to his Belshazzar's Feast. The Walton-led performances do look interesting, but I don't like Menuhin's violin playing so I would definitely skip over his performances. Another problem I might have is the fidelity of those Walton-led performances. I'm not sure how they sound.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 07:36:27 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 06:40:11 AM
I never could count myself in the Ormandy camp, so I wouldn't bother listening to his Belshazzar's Feast. The Walton-led performances do look interesting, but I don't like Menuhin's violin playing so I would definitely skip over his performances. Another problem I might have is the fidelity of those Walton-led performances. I'm not sure how they sound.

Oddly enough I rather liked the American accents in the Walton, especially the phrase '...traffic in the city'. I miss it when I hear it enunciated by a British chorus. Yes, I know that some people don't like Menhuhin's playing but I enjoy his performance of the Viola Concerto, which some find controversially slow. I hardly ever listen to the Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 07:39:38 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 07:36:27 AM
Oddly enough I rather liked the American accents in the Walton, especially the phrase '...traffic in the city'. I miss it when I hear it enunciated by a British chorus.

I seldom pay attention to the vocal parts of Belshazzar's Feast to be honest as I'm so enamored by the orchestral accompaniment that I forget everything else. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 07:43:08 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 07:39:38 AM
I seldom pay attention to the vocal parts of Belshazzar's Feast to be honest as I'm so enamored by the orchestral accompaniment that I forget everything else. :)

I think that it was my teenage encounter with this recording which influenced me. Previn is one of my favourite conductors, although I don't especially like his 'legendary' performance of either Walton's First Symphony, which is over-hyped in my view, or his Belshazzar's Feast. I prefer his later RPO recording of the symphony.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 07:49:58 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 07:43:08 AM
I think that it was my teenage encounter with this recording which influenced me. Previn is one of my favourite conductors, although I don't especially like his 'legendary' performance of either Walton's First Symphony, which is over-hyped in my view, or his Belshazzar's Feast. I prefer his later RPO recording of the symphony.

Ah, so the Ormandy is a sentimental favorite? Well, there's nothing wrong with that as I have many sentimental favorites. I think the first time I heard Walton's Symphony No. 1 was probably Previn's with the LSO (the one you don't enjoy that much). I can't say how I feel about Previn's performance nowadays, but I'll be honest and say that I think Thomson is much better in the symphony than Previn. This isn't to discount what Previn has done for Walton's music of course, because he certainly seemed to be regarded a champion of his music, especially having conducted so much of it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 09:09:24 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 07:49:58 AM
Ah, so the Ormandy is a sentimental favorite? Well, there's nothing wrong with that as I have many sentimental favorites. I think the first time I heard Walton's Symphony No. 1 was probably Previn's with the LSO (the one you don't enjoy that much). I can't say how I feel about Previn's performance nowadays, but I'll be honest and say that I think Thomson is much better in the symphony than Previn. This isn't to discount what Previn has done for Walton's music of course, because he certainly seemed to be regarded a champion of his music, especially having conducted so much of it.
Yes, 'sentimental favourite' (British spelling  8)) is a good term for it John. I think it brings back a particular time in my life when I was discovering classical music. Of course the wide-eyed wonder of youth is long gone but some of these recordings meant a lot to me at the time. I loved the cover of the LP as well.
:)
Here is another fine recording of the First Symphony:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 09:53:01 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 19, 2019, 09:09:24 AM
Yes, 'sentimental favourite' (British spelling  8)) is a good term for it John. I think it brings back a particular time in my life when I was discovering classical music. Of course the wide-eyed wonder of youth is long gone but some of these recordings meant a lot to me at the time. I loved the cover of the LP as well.
:)
Here is another fine recording of the First Symphony:
(//)

Very nice to hear, Jeffrey. Nothing like recapturing the sights and sounds of our youth.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: calyptorhynchus on May 19, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
Sometimes I play a cruel trick on people around at my house. if they don't know BF I play them the passage 'In that same night was Belshazzar the King slain. [Chorus] SLAIN!'. They jump every time!

(The final bars of Mahler's Sixth also work in the same way).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 03:38:03 PM
In my view, I don't see how anyone could best Kyung-Wha Chung in the Violin Concerto. For me, it just doesn't get any better than her performance.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on May 19, 2019, 06:16:52 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 03:38:03 PM
In my view, I don't see how anyone could best Kyung-Wha Chung in the Violin Concerto. For me, it just doesn't get any better than her performance.

Here she is playing the Concerto for Walton's 80th birthday celebration:

https://www.youtube.com/v/elCxwrGAoVs
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 06:26:32 PM
Quote from: Daverz on May 19, 2019, 06:16:52 PM
Here she is playing the Concerto for Walton's 80th birthday celebration:

https://www.youtube.com/v/elCxwrGAoVs

Very nice, daverz. Looks like Walton enjoyed the performance, too.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on May 20, 2019, 11:57:56 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2019, 03:38:03 PM
In my view, I don't see how anyone could best Kyung-Wha Chung in the Violin Concerto. For me, it just doesn't get any better than her performance.

James Ehnes' recording (coupled with the Barber and Korngold VCs) is also superb. Maybe Jeffrey just hasn't heard the right recording of the work? ;)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2019, 01:36:01 PM
Quote from: kyjo on May 20, 2019, 11:57:56 AM
James Ehnes' recording (coupled with the Barber and Korngold VCs) is also superb. Maybe Jeffrey just hasn't heard the right recording of the work? ;)
Haha - I don't really dislike the Violin Concerto, it's just that I prefer the Viola Concerto  ;)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: JBS on May 20, 2019, 01:44:36 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2019, 05:40:14 AM
Here's a question for everyone: what is/are your favorite performance(s) of Belshazaar's Feast?

[asin]B0001N9ZCK[/asin]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on May 22, 2019, 03:23:06 AM
(http://[img]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51C6TPyBVWL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51C6TPyBVWL.jpg)

The 1956 stereo sound in the symphony is quite amazing. Apart from a slightly exaggerated left/right separation and a smidge of residual hiss, this is a clear, well balanced, deep soundstage with a big dynamic range. The 1953 mono Belshazzar is just as effective. Superb clarity, with the words more clearly caught than in the 2008 Colin Davis disc. A stunning choral/orchestral balancing act from the engineers.

As interpretations go, it seems hard to improve on them, although I find Haitink and the Philharmonia to be on the same level, with excellent sound. Boult ratchets up the tension from the get go and the first movement crackles with electricity. Breathtaking. There is a slight ease in voltage thereafter and the finale, however dramatic is not as cathartic as under Haitink. Boult however disguises the movement's seams much better than Davis, whose central fugue in IV sounds dutiful in comparison. The Davis LSO disc is still one to be reckoned with, a less jagged, spiteful and venomous view of the score. His bouncing, tensile, luminous interpretation is played to perfection by the LSO. The coda of IV packs a huge punch.

Belshazzar under Boult is heard to better effect than on the Davis disc - or the Rattle. It is tightly knit and theatrical in the best sense. John Noble is a commanding presence, the voice powerful and well focused. He is more striking than Hampson (Rattle) and way firmer of tone than the sometimes wobbly Coleman-Wright (Davis). Again, the text is sung so crisply and clearly by the LPO chorus that one can almost dispense of the booklet.[/img]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2019, 05:22:48 AM
Boult's Symphony No. 1 is cracking. Would I say it's my favorite? No, but, as with a lot of Boult's performances, they're admirably performed. For someone who doesn't look like he's hardly even moving on the podium, he sure does know how to whip the orchestra up into a frenzy. His secret: it's all in the baton. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 22, 2019, 06:51:20 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 22, 2019, 05:22:48 AM
Boult's Symphony No. 1 is cracking. Would I say it's my favorite? No, but, as with a lot of Boult's performances, they're admirably performed. For someone who doesn't look like he's hardly even moving on the podium, he sure does know how to whip the orchestra up into a frenzy. His secret: it's all in the baton. :)

It is long (the baton ;)).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 22, 2019, 07:40:11 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 22, 2019, 06:51:20 AM
It is long (the baton ;)).

:o
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: aukhawk on May 22, 2019, 09:47:54 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 22, 2019, 05:22:48 AM
he sure does know how to whip the orchestra up into a frenzy. His secret: it's all in the baton. :)

I think he quivers an eyelid occasionally as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on May 22, 2019, 03:28:38 PM
And his left pinkie. Such an expressive pinkie !  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on May 22, 2019, 03:58:22 PM
I think is mainly done at rehearsal, where Boult repeatedly says, "that part should be louder," "that part should be faster," "that part should be louder and faster," "faster and louder, please," "play it faster and not so slowly."
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2019, 09:10:20 PM
Quote from: André on May 22, 2019, 03:23:06 AM
(http://[img]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51C6TPyBVWL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51C6TPyBVWL.jpg)

The 1956 stereo sound in the symphony is quite amazing. Apart from a slightly exaggerated left/right separation and a smidge of residual hiss, this is a clear, well balanced, deep soundstage with a big dynamic range. The 1953 mono Belshazzar is just as effective. Superb clarity, with the words more clearly caught than in the 2008 Colin Davis disc. A stunning choral/orchestral balancing act from the engineers.

As interpretations go, it seems hard to improve on them, although I find Haitink and the Philharmonia to be on the same level, with excellent sound. Boult ratchets up the tension from the get go and the first movement crackles with electricity. Breathtaking. There is a slight ease in voltage thereafter and the finale, however dramatic is not as cathartic as under Haitink. Boult however disguises the movement's seams much better than Davis, whose central fugue in IV sounds dutiful in comparison. The Davis LSO disc is still one to be reckoned with, a less jagged, spiteful and venomous view of the score. His bouncing, tensile, luminous interpretation is played to perfection by the LSO. The coda of IV packs a huge punch.

Belshazzar under Boult is heard to better effect than on the Davis disc - or the Rattle. It is tightly knit and theatrical in the best sense. John Noble is a commanding presence, the voice powerful and well focused. He is more striking than Hampson (Rattle) and way firmer of tone than the sometimes wobbly Coleman-Wright (Davis). Again, the text is sung so crisply and clearly by the LPO chorus that one can almost dispense of the booklet.[/img]
Joking aside this is a fabulous performance of both works and probably my favourite version of the symphony. My brother had it on LP with a rather garish cover:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 22, 2019, 11:57:47 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2019, 09:10:20 PM
Joking aside this is a fabulous performance of both works and probably my favourite version of the symphony. My brother had it on LP with a rather garish cover:


Until you posted the LP cover, Jeffrey, I didn't realise I had that performance of the 1st Symphony on my shelves. I honestly think I have not listened to it. I will now!

On the subject of LP covers I like the old-fashioned one of Shakespeare film music on The World Record Club but my absolute favourite is the Spitfire.

(https://i.imgur.com/2NR06EH.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/l9bEFdc.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 23, 2019, 12:38:48 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 22, 2019, 09:10:20 PM
Joking aside this is a fabulous performance of both works and probably my favourite version of the symphony. My brother had it on LP with a rather garish cover:
(//)

I get rather confused with iterations of Boult's Walton 1 recordings!  My father had the Golden Guinea LP that you have copied here.  Is that different from the Nixa performance.  I assume it IS the same as this CD version

[asin]B001CWGGTE[/asin]

then there is the live Boult here:

[asin]B000025BVM[/asin]

which I think is the same performance as this one here.......!

[asin]B008K7E0AG[/asin]

(frustrating when Amazon doesn't conjure up an image!)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: aukhawk on May 23, 2019, 02:38:58 AM
Nixa was a brand name owned by Pye and Golden Guinea was Pye's bargain classical re-issue label (similar to Decca's Ace of Clubs).  But generally I associate Pye much more with popular music, including some big 'trad' jazz hits.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 23, 2019, 05:23:52 AM
What does everyone think of Walton's chamber music? I listened to his Violin Sonata for what have only been the second-time last night and really enjoyed, but I know I'm going to have to revisit it as I was rather tired when I listened to it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 24, 2019, 11:17:33 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 23, 2019, 12:38:48 AM
I get rather confused with iterations of Boult's Walton 1 recordings!  My father had the Golden Guinea LP that you have copied here.  Is that different from the Nixa performance.  I assume it IS the same as this CD version

[asin]B001CWGGTE[/asin]

then there is the live Boult here:

[asin]B000025BVM[/asin]

which I think is the same performance as this one here.......!

[asin]B008K7E0AG[/asin]

(frustrating when Amazon doesn't conjure up an image!)

Yes, you are right. The top image with the green border is the old Pye/Nixa version. The others are, not so good IMO live versions. The PYE version is also available on the Somm label (posted above - my favourite transfer as it sounds more like an improved version of the LP sound although the critics think that the 3CD set with Elgar, Britten etc is the one to have):
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 24, 2019, 11:21:54 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 22, 2019, 11:57:47 PM
Until you posted the LP cover, Jeffrey, I didn't realise I had that performance of the 1st Symphony on my shelves. I honestly think I have not listened to it. I will now!

On the subject of LP covers I like the old-fashioned one of Shakespeare film music on The World Record Club but my absolute favourite is the Spitfire.

(https://i.imgur.com/2NR06EH.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/l9bEFdc.jpg)

Not seen the WRC recording before but I share your love for the Spitfire cover which I have somewhere in the attic I think. These two LPs had a big influence on my younger self (look out for the Globe theatre on the film music LP) They added the Spitfire Prelude for the HMV Concert Classics release:

(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 24, 2019, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 23, 2019, 05:23:52 AM
What does everyone think of Walton's chamber music? I listened to his Violin Sonata for what have only been the second-time last night and really enjoyed, but I know I'm going to have to revisit it as I was rather tired when I listened to it.

I'm ashamed to say that I hardly know it John. I think that I enjoyed the Sonata for Strings which is based on one of Walton's chamber works.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 24, 2019, 02:19:41 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 24, 2019, 11:24:09 AM
I'm ashamed to say that I hardly know it John. I think that I enjoyed the Sonata for Strings which is based on one of Walton's chamber works.

Yes, the Sonata for Strings is excellent, it is based on Walton's string quartet. Neville Marriner himself suggested that Walton transcribe his string quartet for a small string orchestra. Marriner with his Academy recorded the work for Argo.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 24, 2019, 07:46:59 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 24, 2019, 11:24:09 AM
I'm ashamed to say that I hardly know it John. I think that I enjoyed the Sonata for Strings which is based on one of Walton's chamber works.

You must give the Violin Sonata a listen, Jeffrey. I think you'll enjoy immensely.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 24, 2019, 10:11:07 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 24, 2019, 07:46:59 PM
You must give the Violin Sonata a listen, Jeffrey. I think you'll enjoy immensely.
Definitely! Thanks for the recommendation John.
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 25, 2019, 01:37:32 AM
(https://i1.wp.com/revolutions33.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/DSC07315.jpg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1)

Listening to Francescatti playing the Walton Violin Concerto brings to light how styles of playing have changed, mostly for the better. A really good interpretation with recording to match is spoilt by an excessive vibrato from Francescatti in the first movement. At one point I actually felt queasy listening to a vibrato too wide and rapid.

Menuhin has his detractors and I have not heard his Walton - clever to issue both violin and viola concertos in tandem - but although from same generation I have not heard Menuhin overdoing it in this area of technique.     
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: aukhawk on May 25, 2019, 03:16:27 AM
I remember a recording of Francescatti playing the Sibelius violin concerto - similar impression.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 25, 2019, 05:36:03 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 25, 2019, 01:37:32 AM
(https://i1.wp.com/revolutions33.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/DSC07315.jpg?fit=1024%2C1024&ssl=1)

Listening to Francescatti playing the Walton Violin Concerto brings to light how styles of playing have changed, mostly for the better. A really good interpretation with recording to match is spoilt by an excessive vibrato from Francescatti in the first movement. At one point I actually felt queasy listening to a vibrato too wide and rapid.

Menuhin has his detractors and I have not heard his Walton - clever to issue both violin and viola concertos in tandem - but although from same generation I have not heard Menuhin overdoing it in this area of technique.     

Kyung-Wha Chung is the one to beat in the Violin Concerto, IMHO.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on May 26, 2019, 06:44:34 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 23, 2019, 05:23:52 AM
What does everyone think of Walton's chamber music? I listened to his Violin Sonata for what have only been the second-time last night and really enjoyed, but I know I'm going to have to revisit it as I was rather tired when I listened to it.

I like the Violin Sonata quite a bit, as well as the Piano Quartet. I don't know either of the string quartets (yet).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 26, 2019, 06:55:55 AM
Quote from: kyjo on May 26, 2019, 06:44:34 AM
I like the Violin Sonata quite a bit, as well as the Piano Quartet. I don't know either of the string quartets (yet).

The first SQ is 'okay' nothing special, but the second one, in A minor, is the one to hear and has Walton's distinctive sound all over it. My understanding was the first SQ was withdrawn or wasn't a work Walton was particularly proud of.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 26, 2019, 06:59:50 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 25, 2019, 05:36:03 AM
Kyung-Wha Chung is the one to beat in the Violin Concerto, IMHO.
I would say everything she has done is pretty much must-listen to material. In recent years I would say Janine Jansen come closest to her in terms of bringing out the heart and soul of every work they played.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 26, 2019, 07:09:38 AM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 26, 2019, 06:59:50 AM
I would say everything she has done is pretty much must-listen to material. In recent years I would say Janine Jansen come closest to her in terms of bringing out the heart and soul of every work they played.

Perhaps we should email Janine Jansen asking her to record the Walton VC? That would be something.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on May 26, 2019, 08:53:14 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 26, 2019, 07:09:38 AM
Perhaps we should email Janine Jansen asking her to record the Walton VC? That would be something.

We should! Janine Jansen is an incredible violinist.

Last night I listened to what is one of Walton's last works, the Passacaglia for solo cello (1980). It's brief but very effective: https://youtu.be/0oRyPLnPeFw
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 26, 2019, 11:36:45 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 25, 2019, 05:36:03 AM
Kyung-Wha Chung is the one to beat in the Violin Concerto, IMHO.

Chung is next on my list. Yesterday was the turn of Ida Haendel who shows the Walton violin concerto in the best possible light. Not as languorous as some in the first movement but she and Berglund are brilliant at the sudden changes of mood and tempo during the concerto as a whole. I am coming around to the thought this is a finer violin concerto then I gave credit for. More suited to Haendel then the coupling I think.

(https://img.discogs.com/U1Ipx-yfWdZq7jSqzzS6egtSrUU=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6807795-1427052724-1397.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 27, 2019, 02:29:14 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 26, 2019, 11:36:45 PM
Chung is next on my list. Yesterday was the turn of Ida Haendel who shows the Walton violin concerto in the best possible light. Not as languorous as some in the first movement but she and Berglund are brilliant at the sudden changes of mood and tempo during the concerto as a whole. I am coming around to the thought this is a finer violin concerto then I gave credit for. More suited to Haendel then the coupling I think.

(https://img.discogs.com/U1Ipx-yfWdZq7jSqzzS6egtSrUU=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6807795-1427052724-1397.jpeg.jpg)

Haendel's is one of the great performances and Berglund/Bournemouth as good in this as they were in the Cello Concerto.  Shame those forces never made a commercial recording of either of the Symphonies .... perhaps there's an off-air version?  Gritty Berglund in Sibelian-mode would seem a shoe-in for Symphony 1.......
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2019, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: Irons on May 26, 2019, 11:36:45 PM
Chung is next on my list. Yesterday was the turn of Ida Haendel who shows the Walton violin concerto in the best possible light. Not as languorous as some in the first movement but she and Berglund are brilliant at the sudden changes of mood and tempo during the concerto as a whole. I am coming around to the thought this is a finer violin concerto then I gave credit for. More suited to Haendel then the coupling I think.

(https://img.discogs.com/U1Ipx-yfWdZq7jSqzzS6egtSrUU=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6807795-1427052724-1397.jpeg.jpg)
The combination of Haendel and Berglund is excellent. Haedel's recordings of Pettersson's VC2 and Shostakovich VC1 are both favourites of mine.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 27, 2019, 11:17:40 PM
Have either of you heard Haendel/Berglund in the EMI Sibelius recording? Although receiving rave reviews I was initially  underwhelmed. I also felt the same with the slow-paced Elgar concerto (with Boult) but over time I have grown to appreciate the special qualities and understanding that Haendel brings to this work. I must return to the Sibelius.

I thought exactly the same hearing Berglund's committed direction in the Walton - Why no 1st Symphony?! 
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2019, 11:34:15 PM
Quote from: Irons on May 27, 2019, 11:17:40 PM
Have either of you heard Haendel/Berglund in the EMI Sibelius recording? Although receiving rave reviews I was initially  underwhelmed. I also felt the same with the slow-paced Elgar concerto (with Boult) but over time I have grown to appreciate the special qualities and understanding that Haendel brings to this work. I must return to the Sibelius.

I thought exactly the same hearing Berglund's committed direction in the Walton - Why no 1st Symphony?!
No Lol but I just discovered it going very cheaply second-hand on Amazon, coupled with Symphony 7 and the Karelia Suite and Overture on the old HMV Classics label - so I have snapped it up!  ::)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 27, 2019, 11:46:08 PM
Quote from: Irons on May 27, 2019, 11:17:40 PM
Have either of you heard Haendel/Berglund in the EMI Sibelius recording? Although receiving rave reviews I was initially  underwhelmed. I also felt the same with the slow-paced Elgar concerto (with Boult) but over time I have grown to appreciate the special qualities and understanding that Haendel brings to this work. I must return to the Sibelius.

I thought exactly the same hearing Berglund's committed direction in the Walton - Why no 1st Symphony?!

In bargain hunting mode just last week I picked up that Haendel/Sibelius on an odd EMI Sibelius compilation disc (with Barbirolli's Karelia and Beecham's 7th Symphony).  I'll listen to it today and get back to you.  there is another Haendel/Elgar concerto - live with John Pritchard and the BBC SO.  I must admit I do struggle with her very weighty approach there even though technically she is so fine.  But for sure one of the great players.

Another live recording of hers which always gets very good reviews is this

[asin]B002E9Y5NS[/asin]

a very generous coupling.  I've never managed to track down a reasonably priced copy so it stays on my stalked-discs list!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 27, 2019, 11:47:31 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 27, 2019, 11:34:15 PM
No Lol but I just discovered it going very cheaply second-hand on Amazon, coupled with Symphony 7 and the Karelia Suite and Overture on the old HMV Classics label - so I have snapped it up!  ::)

Oops - didn't see this post when I mentioned the exact same disc below!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 28, 2019, 03:21:20 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 27, 2019, 11:47:31 PM
Oops - didn't see this post when I mentioned the exact same disc below!

Great minds etc
8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 28, 2019, 07:06:35 AM
I would be most interested in your comments on the Sibelius concerto. To avoid any confusion this is it.

(https://img.discogs.com/a3-uK7z2DhSnQ0GO7lQKi2cPMqk=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3802071-1469960437-6125.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 28, 2019, 07:28:39 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 28, 2019, 07:06:35 AM
I would be most interested in your comments on the Sibelius concerto. To avoid any confusion this is it.

(https://img.discogs.com/a3-uK7z2DhSnQ0GO7lQKi2cPMqk=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3802071-1469960437-6125.jpeg.jpg)

Certainly, as soon as it turns up.
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 28, 2019, 09:22:52 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 28, 2019, 07:06:35 AM
I would be most interested in your comments on the Sibelius concerto. To avoid any confusion this is it.

(https://img.discogs.com/a3-uK7z2DhSnQ0GO7lQKi2cPMqk=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-3802071-1469960437-6125.jpeg.jpg)

Listened this morning to the Haendel/Sibelius.  I enjoyed it a lot.  NOT the most firey/dramatic version and certainly the Berglund/BSO accompaniment is 'toned down' from their cycle of Sibelius symphonies which remains one of my very favourite.  Tempi are steady but by no means slow.  Personally I do prefer a more impassioned approach perhaps because that's what I am most used to......
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on May 28, 2019, 11:53:34 AM
IMO Haendel's Sibelius is best heard in the Supraphon release under Ancerl.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 28, 2019, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: kyjo on May 26, 2019, 08:53:14 AM
We should! Janine Jansen is an incredible violinist.

Not sure who is going to read your email though, the only one it seems like you can contact is her publicist.

Interestingly seems like the only non-British orchestra that has recorded the work is the Philadelphia Orchestra with Ormandy/Francescatti.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 28, 2019, 01:16:53 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 28, 2019, 09:22:52 AM
Listened this morning to the Haendel/Sibelius.  I enjoyed it a lot.  NOT the most firey/dramatic version and certainly the Berglund/BSO accompaniment is 'toned down' from their cycle of Sibelius symphonies which remains one of my very favourite.  Tempi are steady but by no means slow.  Personally I do prefer a more impassioned approach perhaps because that's what I am most used to......

I am a big fan of the Bournemouth SO but I think on this occasion they had an off-day. Not only 'toned down' I also found the accompaniment earth bound. Only fair to point out I don't like Berglund's Sibelius as much as you but I realise I am in the minority there. For comparison purposes I also listened to Szeryng with the LSO directed by Roschdestwensky. Haendel has a lighter tone which is fine but comparing the Bournemouth SO and the LSO on this occasion there is only one winner and it isn't from the south coast.

I have a few of Haendel's Supraphon recordings but was unaware she recorded the Sibelius for them.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 28, 2019, 01:32:56 PM
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 28, 2019, 11:55:03 AM
Interestingly seems like the only non-British orchestra that has recorded the work is the Philadelphia Orchestra with Ormandy/Francescatti.

Bell/Zinman/Baltimore
Ehnes/Tovey/Vancouver
Bowes/Swensen/Malmo Opera Orchestra
Judd/Rosand/Florida

for starters......


Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on May 29, 2019, 03:12:33 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 28, 2019, 01:32:56 PM
Bell/Zinman/Baltimore
Ehnes/Tovey/Vancouver
Bowes/Swensen/Malmo Opera Orchestra
Judd/Rosand/Florida

for starters......

I'm reminded of the set out of New Haven:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AmDAL0-nL.jpg)[asin]B00O43D92U[/asin]

EDIT: here they are at Presto: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=walton+new+haven
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 29, 2019, 04:07:58 AM
Quote from: Daverz on May 29, 2019, 03:12:33 AM
I'm reminded of the set out of New Haven:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AmDAL0-nL.jpg)[asin]B00O43D92U[/asin]
Both fine performances IMO.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 29, 2019, 01:55:39 PM
What a good idea to couple each symphony with a string concerto.

I did wonder what happened to William Boughton. He made some good recordings of English music for Nimbus in the mid-1980's.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 29, 2019, 11:35:32 PM
Quote from: Irons on May 29, 2019, 01:55:39 PM
What a good idea to couple each symphony with a string concerto.

I did wonder what happened to William Boughton. He made some good recordings of English music for Nimbus in the mid-1980's.

Here's his website. He looks quite perky.
I hadn't realised he was the conductor on the recent Lyrita release of John Joubert's Symphony 3:
https://williamboughton.com
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 29, 2019, 11:54:02 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 29, 2019, 11:35:32 PM
Here's his website. He looks quite perky.
I hadn't realised he was the conductor on the recent Lyrita release of John Joubert's Symphony 3:
https://williamboughton.com

Thanks for link, Jeffrey. Good to see he has built a career in the US which explains why he disappeared from the scene over here.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on May 30, 2019, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 29, 2019, 04:07:58 AM
Both fine performances IMO.

The New Haven Symphony is very good as is the Nimbus engineering.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 30, 2019, 01:47:19 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 29, 2019, 11:54:02 PM
Thanks for link, Jeffrey. Good to see he has built a career in the US which explains why he disappeared from the scene over here.

My pleasure Lol.

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 30, 2019, 01:48:03 AM
Quote from: Daverz on May 30, 2019, 12:52:17 AM
The New Haven Symphony is very good as is the Nimbus engineering.

Totally agree. I was very impressed with both of those Walton releases.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 01, 2019, 08:03:55 AM
Quote from: André on May 22, 2019, 03:23:06 AM
(http://[img]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51C6TPyBVWL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51C6TPyBVWL.jpg)

The 1956 stereo sound in the symphony is quite amazing. Apart from a slightly exaggerated left/right separation and a smidge of residual hiss, this is a clear, well balanced, deep soundstage with a big dynamic range. The 1953 mono Belshazzar is just as effective. Superb clarity, with the words more clearly caught than in the 2008 Colin Davis disc. A stunning choral/orchestral balancing act from the engineers.

As interpretations go, it seems hard to improve on them, although I find Haitink and the Philharmonia to be on the same level, with excellent sound. Boult ratchets up the tension from the get go and the first movement crackles with electricity. Breathtaking. There is a slight ease in voltage thereafter and the finale, however dramatic is not as cathartic as under Haitink. Boult however disguises the movement's seams much better than Davis, whose central fugue in IV sounds dutiful in comparison. The Davis LSO disc is still one to be reckoned with, a less jagged, spiteful and venomous view of the score. His bouncing, tensile, luminous interpretation is played to perfection by the LSO. The coda of IV packs a huge punch.

Belshazzar under Boult is heard to better effect than on the Davis disc - or the Rattle. It is tightly knit and theatrical in the best sense. John Noble is a commanding presence, the voice powerful and well focused. He is more striking than Hampson (Rattle) and way firmer of tone than the sometimes wobbly Coleman-Wright (Davis). Again, the text is sung so crisply and clearly by the LPO chorus that one can almost dispense of the booklet.[/img]

Andre - I picked up a copy of this in the light of your comments above.  Interesting - as I mentioned I remember this Symphony recording from the old Golden Guinea version in my Dad's LP collection and my memory of it is as distinctly underwhelming.  Clearly a function of the LP pressing because - as you say - this is in fact a very dynamic, purposeful and exciting reading.  To my ear the middle two movements especially successful with a scherzo that bristles with energy and venom and a superbly paced slow movement.  1950's percussion/timpani recording is always something of a disappointment - thuddy (almost pitchless) timps and a tam tam that sounds like a country house dinner-gong/large tray.

Was not nearly as impressed by Belshazzar.  Scrappy/small-sounding chorus..... "yea, we wep..p..p..t..t..t..t.  Denis Noble's diction is excellent but in the great list of Babylon's wealth he is very perfunctory especially on the chilling/sinuous "souls of men....."  Boult sets a cracking tempo for the following; "In Babylon the mighty city...."  Proof yet again that he never was just this patrician/"Edwardian" conductor.  Well worth adding to the collection!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on June 01, 2019, 04:00:56 PM
Thanks for the feedback, RS  ;). I was not too disappointed with the percussion - mind you I enjoy old recordings as much as newer ones as long if the spirit and the execution are of a high level.

Cheers

André
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on June 01, 2019, 11:46:22 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 01, 2019, 08:03:55 AM
Andre - I picked up a copy of this in the light of your comments above.  Interesting - as I mentioned I remember this Symphony recording from the old Golden Guinea version in my Dad's LP collection and my memory of it is as distinctly underwhelming.  Clearly a function of the LP pressing because - as you say - this is in fact a very dynamic, purposeful and exciting reading.  To my ear the middle two movements especially successful with a scherzo that bristles with energy and venom and a superbly paced slow movement.  1950's percussion/timpani recording is always something of a disappointment - thuddy (almost pitchless) timps and a tam tam that sounds like a country house dinner-gong/large tray.

Was not nearly as impressed by Belshazzar.  Scrappy/small-sounding chorus..... "yea, we wep..p..p..t..t..t..t.  Denis Noble's diction is excellent but in the great list of Babylon's wealth he is very perfunctory especially on the chilling/sinuous "souls of men....."  Boult sets a cracking tempo for the following; "In Babylon the mighty city...."  Proof yet again that he never was just this patrician/"Edwardian" conductor.  Well worth adding to the collection!

There is nothing wrong with your memory. I have the "Golden Guinea" Boult Walton 1st on my shelves, and after the positive comments of the performance, I of course played it. In this case it is very much stick with the CD.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 01:11:09 PM
Just bought:

(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/28947050827.jpg?1464793900)

Looking forward to this box set as I really admire Litton's conducting and I've always loved the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. Litton and Bournemouth seem like a good match in Walton.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
I have to be careful with Walton as I'll end up listening to every recording of his music I have in collection if I'm not careful. Yes, his music is that addicting. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 27, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 01:11:09 PM
Just bought:

(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/28947050827.jpg?1464793900)

Looking forward to this box set as I really admire Litton's conducting and I've always loved the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra. Litton and Bournemouth seem like a good match in Walton.

this is a very good set with excellent engineering backing up fine playing and interpretations - get ready for a Waltonian binge!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 27, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
this is a very good set with excellent engineering backing up fine playing and interpretations - get ready for a Waltonian binge!

Very good to read, Roasted Swan. I'm trying to avoid the binge, but it may prove more difficult than I initially thought. Here's a fun a question (maybe), but what are your 'Top 5' Walton recordings? And this question goes for everyone here who's a fan of the composer.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 27, 2020, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 27, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
this is a very good set with excellent engineering backing up fine playing and interpretations - get ready for a Waltonian binge!

Agreed - it's a very enjoyable boxed set.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 27, 2020, 02:02:10 PM
Agreed - it's a very enjoyable boxed set.

Excellent, Jeffrey. What work should I listen to first from this set?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 02:26:26 PM
I suppose one reason why I love Walton's music so much is, like Britten, there's always this sense of the theatrical in his music (another reason why I love Bernstein's own music as well).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 27, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 02:18:59 PM
Excellent, Jeffrey. What work should I listen to first from this set?
It's all good John although my highlights would be the Viola Concerto the Hindemith Variations and both symphonies. I prefer the Henry V music as arranged in the Carl Davis CD which you also have as, crucially, it features the opening choral prelude 'The Globe'  which is missing, as far as I recall, in the more familiar version recorded by Litton.

Here's my Amazon UK review of the Carl Davis disc:
If you want a single CD of Waton's film music, in a modern recording, I'd go for this one. The LPO and choir play wonderfully under Carl Davis. Above all, the selection from Henry V (Walton's finest film score) includes 'The Globe' - the wonderfully atmospheric, and in its wartime context, moving introductory sequence. It is usually excluded from the orchestral suites from Henry V and I was delighted to see it included here. Walton's 'Battle in the Air' was the best music featured in 'The Battle of Britain' movie (in fact the only part of Walton's original score included in the film). The other highlight here is the music for 'As You Like It', featuring the wonderfully atmospheric 'Fountain Scene' and 'Waterfall Scene'. Don't miss this - a must for all Walton fans and, indeed, all admirers of film music.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 02:49:30 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 27, 2020, 02:38:53 PM
It's all good John although my highlights would be the Viola Concerto the Hindemith Variations and both symphonies. I prefer the Henry V music as arranged in the Carl Davis CD which you also have as, crucially, it features the opening choral prelude 'The Globe'  which is missing, as far as I recall, in the more familiar version recorded by Litton.

Here's my Amazon UK review of the Carl Davis disc:
If you want a single CD of Waton's film music, in a modern recording, I'd go for this one. The LPO and choir play wonderfully under Carl Davis. Above all, the selection from Henry V (Walton's finest film score) includes 'The Globe' - the wonderfully atmospheric, and in its wartime context, moving introductory sequence. It is usually excluded from the orchestral suites from Henry V and I was delighted to see it included here. Walton's 'Battle in the Air' was the best music featured in 'The Battle of Britain' movie (in fact the only part of Walton's original score included in the film). The other highlight here is the music for 'As You Like It', featuring the wonderfully atmospheric 'Fountain Scene' and 'Waterfall Scene'. Don't miss this - a must for all Walton fans and, indeed, all admirers of film music.

Great stuff, Jeffrey. I really enjoy that Carl Davis recording. I don't own the original issue of the Davis recording, but the reissue found in this great set, which is OOP:

(https://img.discogs.com/QUNbhwtcxVnztq86VgGZL1n6DNU=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10688725-1558093355-4570.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: bhodges on January 27, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
I don't have 5 recordings, but I do like this one. Conductor, orchestra, and chorus are all excellent, but Bryn Terfel seals the deal.

[asin]B00000427W[/asin]

--Bruce
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Brewski on January 27, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
I don't have 5 recordings, but I do like this one. Conductor, orchestra, and chorus are all excellent, but Bryn Terfel seals the deal.

[asin]B00000427W[/asin]

--Bruce

Cool, Brewski. 8) I've read good reviews about this recording.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 28, 2020, 09:07:57 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 04:03:47 PM
Cool, Brewski. 8) I've read good reviews about this recording.

One of the things that certainly adds to the "theatrical" side of this performance is that it was recorded - I'm saying this from a failing memory! - in Winchester Cathedral where the big acoustic really adds to the drama (but rather blurs Henry V!).  I so much prefer Terfel's earlier recordings - not only was the voice in such fine fettle but also its less mannered, more straight forward.  I get a bit tired of every word having a 'colouring'..

Re Henry V - the common suite was "adapted for concert use by Muir Mathieson with the composer's authorisation" [that's a quote from the score] and of course it was this suite that Walton recorded himself with the Philharmonia.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 28, 2020, 09:28:02 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 28, 2020, 09:07:57 AM
One of the things that certainly adds to the "theatrical" side of this performance is that it was recorded - I'm saying this from a failing memory! - in Winchester Cathedral where the big acoustic really adds to the drama (but rather blurs Henry V!).  I so much prefer Terfel's earlier recordings - not only was the voice in such fine fettle but also its less mannered, more straight forward.  I get a bit tired of every word having a 'colouring'..

Re Henry V - the common suite was "adapted for concert use by Muir Mathieson with the composer's authorisation" [that's a quote from the score] and of course it was this suite that Walton recorded himself with the Philharmonia.

This is very good to know, Roasted Swan. I appreciate the feedback. Looking forward to hearing Litton's Belshazzar.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 28, 2020, 10:17:50 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 28, 2020, 09:28:02 AM
This is very good to know, Roasted Swan. I appreciate the feedback. Looking forward to hearing Litton's Belshazzar.

Another disc which includes the "standard" Henry V suite that I like very much is this one;

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Dd8XZd5AL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

James Judd is a very very good conductor - but one who seems to have always skirted around the edge of getting a "big" job with a "big" orchestra.  But his discography is full of really fine versions of all kinds of repertoire.  This disc is a case in point.  Also, Aaron Rosand was one of my all-time favourite players.  Old-School big personality with bags of technique if not infallible in the way modern factory-prodigies often are.  Rosand's style and tone suit the Walton Concerto very well and the Florida PO rise to the challenge as well.  Shame about the silly market place price at the moment.....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 28, 2020, 12:00:02 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 28, 2020, 10:17:50 AM
Another disc which includes the "standard" Henry V suite that I like very much is this one;

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Dd8XZd5AL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

James Judd is a very very good conductor - but one who seems to have always skirted around the edge of getting a "big" job with a "big" orchestra.  But his discography is full of really fine versions of all kinds of repertoire.  This disc is a case in point.  Also, Aaron Rosand was one of my all-time favourite players.  Old-School big personality with bags of technique if not infallible in the way modern factory-prodigies often are.  Rosand's style and tone suit the Walton Concerto very well and the Florida PO rise to the challenge as well.  Shame about the silly market place price at the moment.....

James Judd is a good conductor, but like you mentioned, hardly one that gets the kind of exposure he deserves. I really like the recording he did of Sculthorpe on Naxos.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 28, 2020, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: Brewski on January 27, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
I don't have 5 recordings, but I do like this one. Conductor, orchestra, and chorus are all excellent, but Bryn Terfel seals the deal.

[asin]B00000427W[/asin]

--Bruce

I should have mentioned this too. A while since I've heard it. So, thumbs up from me too.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 28, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 28, 2020, 12:00:02 PM
James Judd is a good conductor, but like you mentioned, hardly one that gets the kind of exposure he deserves. I really like the recording he did of Sculthorpe on Naxos.

He's one of those conductors where you go "oh that's a good performance" and then notice he's conducting....  Here's a few of his discs I rate highly... [NB: Bernstein!!]

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71--XLy3HdL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91GdCJUtmLL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41+BvuV6A5L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/713ESaa8ORL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71wG8hasCbL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71W0xQyKb4L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on January 28, 2020, 05:55:14 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 28, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
He's one of those conductors where you go "oh that's a good performance" and then notice he's conducting....  Here's a few of his discs I rate highly... [NB: Bernstein!!]

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71--XLy3HdL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91GdCJUtmLL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41+BvuV6A5L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/713ESaa8ORL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71wG8hasCbL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71W0xQyKb4L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

I own all of those recordings except for the Elgar, but I own way too much Elgar as it is. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 28, 2020, 08:47:26 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 28, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
He's one of those conductors where you go "oh that's a good performance" and then notice he's conducting....  Here's a few of his discs I rate highly... [NB: Bernstein!!]

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71--XLy3HdL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91GdCJUtmLL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41+BvuV6A5L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/713ESaa8ORL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71wG8hasCbL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71W0xQyKb4L._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)

Here are another couple which I enjoy:
[/img]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: aukhawk on January 29, 2020, 02:37:38 AM
He's recorded a first-rate Planets too

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/512SGXG03CL._AC_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 29, 2020, 03:42:28 AM
Quote from: aukhawk on January 29, 2020, 02:37:38 AM
He's recorded a first-rate Planets too

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/512SGXG03CL._AC_.jpg)

I ordered that yesterday - its been in my basket for ages but quite expensive - then a cheap copy popped up.  Looking forward to hearing it..... (his Alpine Symphony is rather good too)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 23, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 27, 2020, 02:49:30 PM
Great stuff, Jeffrey. I really enjoy that Carl Davis recording. I don't own the original issue of the Davis recording, but the reissue found in this great set, which is OOP:

(https://img.discogs.com/QUNbhwtcxVnztq86VgGZL1n6DNU=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10688725-1558093355-4570.jpeg.jpg)

I have the box and love it. It seems to me that the Decca recordings are more popular though I maybe wrong.
Also, there are two (maybe more) recordings titled Walton Conducts Walton. Any opinion about their quality and/or Walton's conducting ability?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 23, 2020, 04:13:48 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 23, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
I have the box and love it. It seems to me that the Decca recordings are more popular though I maybe wrong.
Also, there are two (maybe more) recordings titled Walton Conducts Walton. Any opinion about their quality and/or Walton's conducting ability?

Yes, a great box set, indeed, although not every performance is top-drawer. I'm not sure about those Walton Conducts Walton recordings. You'll probably have to ask Jeffrey (Vandermolen), Roasted Swan or Cesar (SymphonicAddict) about those recordings. I haven't heard them.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2020, 10:09:37 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 23, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
I have the box and love it. It seems to me that the Decca recordings are more popular though I maybe wrong.
Also, there are two (maybe more) recordings titled Walton Conducts Walton. Any opinion about their quality and/or Walton's conducting ability?
The only box set I know entitled 'Walton conducts Walton' is the one below on LP. I never owned the box but have the recordings on individual or double CDs. I think that Walton was a fine conductor of his own music so I don't think that you'll go wrong there. It depends a bit on your attitude to historical recordings but I rather like them:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: ritter on June 23, 2020, 11:33:12 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 23, 2020, 10:09:37 PM
The only box set I know entitled 'Walton conducts Walton' is the one below on LP. I never owned the box but have the recordings on individual or double CDs. I think that Walton was a fine conductor of his own music so I don't think that you'll go wrong there. It depends a bit on your attitude to historical recordings but I rather like them:

There's this 4 CD set, which I bought many years ago (it's OOP, but used copies are available--in Europe at least):

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51T7cnbwNvL._SX425_.jpg)
A nice overview of Walton's work and conducting. To be complemented with the scenes from Troilus and Cressida, which he recorded with Schwarzkopf and Lewis.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/21TJP0VHHWL._AC_.jpg)
Sorry about the poor image (I couldn't find a better one on the web).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 24, 2020, 01:40:42 AM
Quote from: ritter on June 23, 2020, 11:33:12 PM
There's this 4 CD set, which I bought many years ago (it's OOP, but used copies are available--in Europe at least):

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51T7cnbwNvL._SX425_.jpg)
A nice overview of Walton's work and conducting. To be complemented with the scenes from Troilus and Cressida, which he recorded with Schwarzkopf and Lewis.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/21TJP0VHHWL._AC_.jpg)
Sorry about the poor image (I couldn't find a better one on the web).

Yes, 'The Walton Edition' was a very fine CD set which I bought when it first came out. If you can find it at a reasonable price that would be an excellent choice.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Papy Oli on June 24, 2020, 02:29:45 AM
You also have a Walton conducts Walton on Lyrita as well, with some less famous pieces but quite good all the same. Playing it as we speak.

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/oa/ee/gdr7vs71oeeoa_600.jpg)

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vers la flamme on June 24, 2020, 02:38:52 AM
I've never heard a note of Walton in my life. Where would be a good place to start?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: DaveF on June 24, 2020, 02:41:55 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on June 24, 2020, 02:38:52 AM
I've never heard a note of Walton in my life. Where would be a good place to start?

1st symphony - Previn and the LSO.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Papy Oli on June 24, 2020, 02:43:09 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on June 24, 2020, 02:38:52 AM
I've never heard a note of Walton in my life. Where would be a good place to start?

..And the Viola Concerto.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 24, 2020, 03:35:41 AM
Totally agree about the 1st Symphony and the Viola Concerto although, personally, I would choose Mackerras or Bryden Thomson rather than Previn for the symphony.

I like these two albums - both double CD sets:
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 07:18:25 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 23, 2020, 10:09:37 PM
The only box set I know entitled 'Walton conducts Walton' is the one below on LP. I never owned the box but have the recordings on individual or double CDs. I think that Walton was a fine conductor of his own music so I don't think that you'll go wrong there. It depends a bit on your attitude to historical recordings but I rather like them:
(//)

It seems that there are 3-4 cds titled Walton conducts Walton. I checked two of them on YT and they sounded good.

https://www.google.com/search?q=walton+conducts+walton&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS835US835&hl=en-US&prmd=nimv&sxsrf=ALeKk008WSgKtdKcKAxf6A7FIqFUAnBsGw:1593011742292&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjAkpaY35rqAhUEJt8KHbgfCoUQ_AUoAnoECAwQAg&biw=1366&bih=905

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 07:19:58 AM
Quote from: Papy Oli on June 24, 2020, 02:29:45 AM
You also have a Walton conducts Walton on Lyrita as well, with some less famous pieces but quite good all the same. Playing it as we speak.

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/oa/ee/gdr7vs71oeeoa_600.jpg)

I like the recording!
Capriccio Burlesco sounds great.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 07:26:39 AM
Another one (good recording as well)!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 07:48:03 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 24, 2020, 03:35:41 AM
Totally agree about the 1st Symphony and the Viola Concerto although, personally, I would choose Mackerras or Bryden Thomson rather than Previn for the symphony.

I like these two albums - both double CD sets:

How would you rank the Decca Litton? Thanks.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 08:16:01 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 07:48:03 AM
How would you rank the Decca Litton? Thanks.

You didn't ask me but Litton's Walton is fantastic. All the performances are top-notch plus combine that with the superb Decca engineering and it's a win/win.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 08:19:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 08:16:01 AM
You didn't ask me but Litton's Walton is fantastic. All the performances are top-notch plus combine that with the superb Decca engineering and it's a win/win.

I asked everybody, thanks a lot. I will get the disc.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 08:26:39 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 08:19:45 AM
I asked everybody, thanks a lot. I will get the disc.

Don't you mean discs? ;)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 08:32:46 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 08:26:39 AM
Don't you mean discs? ;)

I was thinking about S1, but maybe S2 and others well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 24, 2020, 08:45:41 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 07:48:03 AM
How would you rank the Decca Litton? Thanks.

Very good, solid performances but not my favourite of Symphony No.1 at least. But, as John (MI) states you won't go wrong with that set, so; recommendable and a good introduction to Walton.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 10:29:21 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 08:32:46 AM
I was thinking about S1, but maybe S2 and others well.

Yeah, well, if you can find the The Centenary Edition (bluish-purplish box set on Decca), it contains all of Litton's Walton recordings.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 11:21:31 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 10:29:21 AM
Yeah, well, if you can find the The Centenary Edition (bluish-purplish box set on Decca), it contains all of Litton's Walton recordings.

I checked it on YT, the set sounds great.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 24, 2020, 11:24:20 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 24, 2020, 11:21:31 AM
I checked it on YT, the set sounds great.

8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 25, 2020, 06:09:36 PM
5 Bagatelles is one of my favourite Walton compositions. Sharon Isbin's recording (OOP) is my favorite recording followed by the Julian Bream. The performance is dark, mysterious and aesthetic.
Also, CHANDOS issued the versions of guitar concerto and orchestral arrangement. As many of you probably know already, the both sound great.
Specially the guitar concerto is great with a minimalistic arrangement in spacious sound, which enhances color, scope and transparency.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 25, 2020, 08:38:28 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 24, 2020, 08:45:41 AM
Very good, solid performances but not my favourite of Symphony No.1 at least. But, as John (MI) states you won't go wrong with that set, so; recommendable and a good introduction to Walton.

I see that the recordings of No.1 by Louis Fremaux and Edward Garner/bbc have not been mentioned on the thread.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 25, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 25, 2020, 08:38:28 PM
I see that the recordings of No.1 by Louis Fremaux and Edward Garner/bbc have not been mentioned on the thread.
I enjoy both of those performances and ones by Brabbins and Karabits as well. I have a bit of a connection with the Fremaux recording, in its latest manifestation, as I was in a residential conference in Bournemouth (not on a packed beach like the silly people over the last few days) when I went into the nice small Russell Cotes museum and saw this extraordinary painting of terrified sheep and approaching thunderstorm (a bit of a metaphor for my life  8)) and I thought that it would make a suitable cover image for a stormy British work like the Walton 1st Symphony or Vaughan Williams's 6th or 4th Symphony (although actually the scene is from Picardy in France); anyway I suggested it to the boss of Alto records who then made a deal with the museum to use some of the paintings for CD covers and then, hey presto, there it is - the only CD that I have ever chosen a cover for (I wrote the notes as well for that release). So, a nice bit of early-morning self-publicity for you all.  ;D
One of my favourite versions of the Walton is the Charles Mackerras version:
[/img]

(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 25, 2020, 11:25:15 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 25, 2020, 06:09:36 PM
5 Bagatelles is one of my favourite Walton compositions. Sharon Isbin's recording (OOP) is my favorite recording followed by the Julian Bream. The performance is dark, mysterious and aesthetic.
Also, CHANDOS issued the versions of guitar concerto and orchestral arrangement. As many of you probably know already, the both sound great.
Specially the guitar concerto is great with a minimalistic arrangement in spacious sound, which enhances color, scope and transparency.

Just to be clear - there is no Walton Guitar Concerto.  The 5 Bagatelles exist in an orchestra-alone free transcription by Walton called Varii Capricii.  The version of this Chandos disc is an arrangement by Patrick Russ for guitar and chamber orchestra.  Whether Russ has combined elements of the original solo work with the orchestral version I do not know.  It might be very fine but it is not 'authentic' Walton.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on June 26, 2020, 01:23:10 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
I enjoy both of those performances and ones by Brabbins and Karabits as well. I have a bit of a connection with the Fremaux recording

I had no idea that Fremaux recorded the Symphony No. 1, I don't think I recall anyone mentioning it before.  He only seems to have done Walton's light music with the CBSO.  The Alto reissue is on Qobuz:

https://open.qobuz.com/album/5055354411304

Earlier today I listened to Slatkin (punchy and very well recorded) and Litton (perhaps a bit soft; well not the ferociousness of Previn/RCA.)  I also like the Karabits and want to get to the Gardner soon.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2020, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Daverz on June 26, 2020, 01:23:10 AM
I had no idea that Fremaux recorded the Symphony No. 1, I don't think I recall anyone mentioning it before.  He only seems to have done Walton's light music with the CBSO.  The Alto reissue is on Qobuz:

https://open.qobuz.com/album/5055354411304

Earlier today I listened to Slatkin (punchy and very well recorded) and Litton (perhaps a bit soft; well not the ferociousness of Previn/RCA.)  I also like the Karabits and want to get to the Gardner soon.
Fremaux's recordings of Crown Imperial, Orb and Sceptre and the Coronation te deum were highly praised. The First Symphony less so.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 26, 2020, 02:03:47 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 26, 2020, 01:30:15 AM
Fremaux's recordings of Crown Imperial, Orb and Sceptre and the Coronation te deum were highly praised. The First Symphony less so.

+1 - the original disc also included the less well-known Gloria which has many wonderful passages even if there is an occasional lingering thought that Walton is re-cycling some of his compositional 'tricks'
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: DaveF on June 26, 2020, 02:07:49 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
... terrified sheep and approaching thunderstorm (a bit of a metaphor for my life  8))

But are you the sheep or the thunderstorm?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2020, 03:56:25 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 26, 2020, 02:03:47 AM
+1 - the original disc also included the less well-known Gloria which has many wonderful passages even if there is an occasional lingering thought that Walton is re-cycling some of his compositional 'tricks'
Quite right. I knew that there was another work on that famous recording.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2020, 03:58:21 AM
Quote from: DaveF on June 26, 2020, 02:07:49 AM
But are you the sheep or the thunderstorm?
OT
According to Gestalt theory (it it was a dream) I would be both - so, I'll go with that  ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 26, 2020, 04:27:27 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 26, 2020, 03:58:21 AM
OT
According to Gestalt theory (it it was a dream) I would be both - so, I'll go with that  ;D

Is that a thunderstorm in sheep's clothing....?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 26, 2020, 06:08:12 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 25, 2020, 11:25:15 PM
Just to be clear - there is no Walton Guitar Concerto.  The 5 Bagatelles exist in an orchestra-alone free transcription by Walton called Varii Capricii.  The version of this Chandos disc is an arrangement by Patrick Russ for guitar and chamber orchestra.  Whether Russ has combined elements of the original solo work with the orchestral version I do not know.  It might be very fine but it is not 'authentic' Walton.

You are correct. Chronologically, the original/initial bagatelles was a solo-guitar piece written for Julian Bream and dedicated to Malcolm Arnold on his 50y/o birthday. Bream may have requested Sir WW for a guitar composition, but I forgot. I didn't know that WW himself made the orchestral version, Varii Capricci. For the guitar concerto version, I don't know if the arrangement was the Chandos producers' initiative, but it is such a good idea.  I really like the orchestrations of both the arrangements. It seems that there are other WW pieces successfully arranged by others, including Christopher Palmer.


P.S. It maybe a worthy topic for discussions if the various arrangements of Walton compositions by the third parties are artistically successful or not. If Walton had made a guitar concerto of Bagatelles, it would have been a more lush and sumptuous arrangement with many notes and passages and less space. I like the existent arrangement, which is minimalistic and almost Zen-like.


YT link for the guitar concerto.
https://youtu.be/X3KOIjhwIQo
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 26, 2020, 07:08:27 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 26, 2020, 04:27:27 AM
Is that a thunderstorm in sheep's clothing....?

+1  😆😆😆
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 26, 2020, 07:15:14 AM
That's a great story! I wish a recording company would adopt an artwork I recommend some day. It's ironical that you have discussed many albums of the No.1, except the album you have substantially influenced. I agree, and I believe most people agree, that the Mackerras recording is a great performance. I have and like the Viola C/Partitas by Gardner. I will get his (and Brabbins) Symphonies albums.

I very much like Orb and Sceptre by Fremaux. I adore the composition, but strangely there are few recordings.


Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
I enjoy both of those performances and ones by Brabbins and Karabits as well. I have a bit of a connection with the Fremaux recording, in its latest manifestation, as I was in a residential conference in Bournemouth (not on a packed beach like the silly people over the last few days) when I went into the nice small Russell Cotes museum and saw this extraordinary painting of terrified sheep and approaching thunderstorm (a bit of a metaphor for my life  8)) and I thought that it would make a suitable cover image for a stormy British work like the Walton 1st Symphony or Vaughan Williams's 6th or 4th Symphony (although actually the scene is from Picardy in France); anyway I suggested it to the boss of Alto records who then made a deal with the museum to use some of the paintings for CD covers and then, hey presto, there it is - the only CD that I have ever chosen a cover for (I wrote the notes as well for that release). So, a nice bit of early-morning self-publicity for you all.  ;D
One of my favourite versions of the Walton is the Charles Mackerras version:
[/img]

(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 26, 2020, 07:49:50 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 26, 2020, 06:08:12 AM
You are correct. Chronologically, the original/initial bagatelles was a solo-guitar piece written for Julian Bream and dedicated to Malcolm Arnold on his 50y/o birthday. Bream may have requested Sir WW for a guitar composition, but I forgot. I didn't know that WW himself made the orchestral version, Varii Capricci. For the guitar concerto version, I don't know if the arrangement was the Chandos producers' initiative, but it is such a good idea.  I really like the orchestrations of both the arrangements. It seems that there are other WW pieces successfully arranged by others, including Christopher Palmer.


P.S. It maybe a worthy topic for discussions if the various arrangements of Walton compositions by the third parties are artistically successful or not. If Walton had made a guitar concerto of Bagatelles, it would have been a more lush and sumptuous arrangement with many notes and passages and less space. I like the existent arrangement, which is minimalistic and almost Zen-like.


YT link for the guitar concerto.
https://youtu.be/X3KOIjhwIQo

Having sounded slightly "purist" in my comments regarding the 'concerto' version of the bagatelles..... I've just ordered a copy of the disc!  Looking forward to hearing it very much.  Christopher Palmer was a great restorer/orchestrator full stop.  His work on the Walton film scores is superb but he did so much other fine work.  His early death was a great loss to the world of score restoration.  I did not realise until very recently that Constant Lambert actually orchestrated several of the movements that make up the 2nd Facade Suite.  There is no indication to the effect in the score - and they certainly sound Walton-esque - but apparently Fanfare/Scotch Rhapsody/Country Dance and the iconic Popular Song are Lambert orchestrations.

Of course - as mentioned on this thread before - Walton got into a state writing the score for "The Battle of Britain" so he recruited Malcolm Arnold to help with the orchestrations.  More than that, Arnold both conducted the OST (which is stunning) AND wrote most if not all of the film's most famous musical sequence; "Battle in the Air".
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2020, 08:54:42 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 26, 2020, 07:15:14 AM
That's a great story! I wish a recording company would adopt an artwork I recommend some day. It's ironical that you have discussed many albums of the No.1, except the album you have substantially influenced. I agree, and I believe most people agree, that the Mackerras recording is a great performance. I have and like the Viola C/Partitas by Gardner. I will get his (and Brabbins) Symphonies albums.

I very much like Orb and Sceptre by Fremaux. I adore the composition, but strangely there are few recordings.
Thank you! I must try to find an image of the original painting as you can only see part of it on the CD cover. Actually I did choose or recommend another CD cover - Shostakovich Symphony 11 on Alto (Rostropovich). Maybe I didn't mention it before because it is not as good, in my opinion, as some other recordings. However, I'm tempted to listen to it again.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 26, 2020, 12:06:56 PM
If I were a little younger, I would go to college to study orchestration and orchestrate works by Albeniz, Turina and Bach.
I guess the Columbus Suite was done by Palmer as well.
While I like the suite, I am not sure if it will be played or recorded again due to the correctional, or revisionist (depending upon your ideology), movement today against the racist legacy. I even suspect that Paul McCartney may not sing Penny Lane again.
I didn't know about Lambert at all.




Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 26, 2020, 07:49:50 AM
Having sounded slightly "purist" in my comments regarding the 'concerto' version of the bagatelles..... I've just ordered a copy of the disc!  Looking forward to hearing it very much.  Christopher Palmer was a great restorer/orchestrator full stop.  His work on the Walton film scores is superb but he did so much other fine work.  His early death was a great loss to the world of score restoration.  I did not realise until very recently that Constant Lambert actually orchestrated several of the movements that make up the 2nd Facade Suite.  There is no indication to the effect in the score - and they certainly sound Walton-esque - but apparently Fanfare/Scotch Rhapsody/Country Dance and the iconic Popular Song are Lambert orchestrations.

Of course - as mentioned on this thread before - Walton got into a state writing the score for "The Battle of Britain" so he recruited Malcolm Arnold to help with the orchestrations.  More than that, Arnold both conducted the OST (which is stunning) AND wrote most if not all of the film's most famous musical sequence; "Battle in the Air".
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 26, 2020, 06:39:48 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
I enjoy both of those performances and ones by Brabbins and Karabits as well. I have a bit of a connection with the Fremaux recording, in its latest manifestation, as I was in a residential conference in Bournemouth (not on a packed beach like the silly people over the last few days) when I went into the nice small Russell Cotes museum and saw this extraordinary painting of terrified sheep and approaching thunderstorm (a bit of a metaphor for my life  8)) and I thought that it would make a suitable cover image for a stormy British work like the Walton 1st Symphony or Vaughan Williams's 6th or 4th Symphony (although actually the scene is from Picardy in France); anyway I suggested it to the boss of Alto records who then made a deal with the museum to use some of the paintings for CD covers and then, hey presto, there it is - the only CD that I have ever chosen a cover for (I wrote the notes as well for that release). So, a nice bit of early-morning self-publicity for you all.  ;D
One of my favourite versions of the Walton is the Charles Mackerras version:
[/img]

(//)

That was amusing to read, Jeffrey. What other recordings have your touch on notes and cover arts?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2020, 12:33:37 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 26, 2020, 06:39:48 PM
That was amusing to read, Jeffrey. What other recordings have your touch on notes and cover arts?
I also suggest this cover image (from online material) and wrote the notes. I worked it out the other day I wrote the notes for 22 CDs:
Miaskovsky x 6
Shostakovich x 4
VW x 3
Holst x 2
Walton x 1 (+ the cover)
Prokofiev x 1
Copland x 1
Barber x 1
Scriabin x 1
Novak x 1 (plus suggested the content)
Weinberg x 1
(//)

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 27, 2020, 07:56:12 AM
I couldn't find a good picture, but the info is here. Thank you all for all these info and insights about Sir. WW.

https://www.wikiart.org/en/henry-william-banks-davis/approaching-thunderstorm-flocks-driven-home-picardy-france-1889




Quote from: vandermolen on June 26, 2020, 08:54:42 AM
Thank you! I must try to find an image of the original painting as you can only see part of it on the CD cover. Actually I did choose or recommend another CD cover - Shostakovich Symphony 11 on Alto (Rostropovich). Maybe I didn't mention it before because it is not as good, in my opinion, as some other recordings. However, I'm tempted to listen to it again.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 27, 2020, 08:00:17 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 27, 2020, 07:56:12 AM
I couldn't find a good picture, but the info is here. Thank you all for all these info and insights about Sir. WW.

https://www.wikiart.org/en/henry-william-banks-davis/approaching-thunderstorm-flocks-driven-home-picardy-france-1889
Oh well done FBK for finding the image! You were more successful that I was. I love that painting. I always relate to scenes of looming threat   ;D
As you can see, the full painting is much more impressive than the truncated image shown on the front of the Walton CD. When I walk in the countryside or look at a landscape painting or photo I often think about what piece of music the landscape in front of me would suit and here the dream became a reality!

(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on June 27, 2020, 02:53:59 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2020, 12:33:37 AM
I also suggest this cover image (from online material) and wrote the notes. I worked it out the other day I wrote the notes for 22 CDs:

Has anyone ever used a still from Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin for the Shostakovich "1905" symphony?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on June 27, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Daverz on June 27, 2020, 02:53:59 PM
Has anyone ever used a still from Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin for the Shostakovich "1905" symphony?

I don't think so. Although they are politically related in a way, the two events took place 6 months and a thousand miles from each other (January 1905 in St Petersburg and June 1905 in Odessa).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 27, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2020, 12:33:37 AM
I also suggest this cover image (from online material) and wrote the notes. I worked it out the other day I wrote the notes for 22 CDs:
Miaskovsky x 6
Shostakovich x 4
VW x 3
Holst x 2
Walton x 1 (+ the cover)
Prokofiev x 1
Copland x 1
Barber x 1
Scriabin x 1
Novak x 1 (plus suggested the content)
Weinberg x 1
(//)

Splendid, Jeffrey. Keeping that in mind, when I try one of those CDs, I'll think of you.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on June 27, 2020, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: André on June 27, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
I don't think so. Although they are politically related in a way, the two events took place 6 months and a thousand miles from each other (January 1905 in St Petersburg and June 1905 in Odessa).

Ah, I was going off a vague memory of BP from a film class 30 years ago.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 28, 2020, 12:30:27 AM
Quote from: Daverz on June 27, 2020, 02:53:59 PM
Has anyone ever used a still from Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin for the Shostakovich "1905" symphony?
It would be a great choice!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 28, 2020, 12:31:05 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 27, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Splendid, Jeffrey. Keeping that in mind, when I try one of those CDs, I'll think of you.
Thank you Cesar!
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on June 28, 2020, 01:56:59 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2020, 10:41:47 PM
I enjoy both of those performances and ones by Brabbins and Karabits as well. I have a bit of a connection with the Fremaux recording, in its latest manifestation, as I was in a residential conference in Bournemouth (not on a packed beach like the silly people over the last few days) when I went into the nice small Russell Cotes museum and saw this extraordinary painting of terrified sheep and approaching thunderstorm (a bit of a metaphor for my life  8)) and I thought that it would make a suitable cover image for a stormy British work like the Walton 1st Symphony or Vaughan Williams's 6th or 4th Symphony (although actually the scene is from Picardy in France); anyway I suggested it to the boss of Alto records who then made a deal with the museum to use some of the paintings for CD covers and then, hey presto, there it is - the only CD that I have ever chosen a cover for (I wrote the notes as well for that release). So, a nice bit of early-morning self-publicity for you all.  ;D
One of my favourite versions of the Walton is the Charles Mackerras version:
[/img]


(//)

I must revisit the Russell Cotes Museum when it re-opens, it is years since I last went in even though it is only just down the road from me. I would like to see the restored rooms again. Less so the galleries - too much Victorian soft porn - acres of flabby white flesh masquerading as 'biblical' or 'classical' subjects. I don't recall the sheep from previous visits.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: aukhawk on June 28, 2020, 04:23:39 AM
Quote from: Biffo on June 28, 2020, 01:56:59 AM
... I would like to see the restored rooms again. Less so the galleries - too much Victorian soft porn - acres of flabby white flesh masquerading as 'biblical' or 'classical' subjects. ...

Just the way I feel about much of the Hyperion catalogue.

Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2020, 08:00:17 AM
Oh well done FBK for finding the image! You were more successful that I was. I love that painting. I always relate to scenes of looming threat   ;D ...

(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=324.0;attach=65407;image)

There are certainly some very concerned-looking sheep there.  However they're not looking at the gathering storm - I think someone out-of-frame to the left has just shaken a bucket of sheep-nuts.  ;)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 28, 2020, 05:40:06 AM
Quote from: Biffo on June 28, 2020, 01:56:59 AM
I must revisit the Russell Cotes Museum when it re-opens, it is years since I last went in even though it is only just down the road from me. I would like to see the restored rooms again. Less so the galleries - too much Victorian soft porn - acres of flabby white flesh masquerading as 'biblical' or 'classical' subjects. I don't recall the sheep from previous visits.
Oh, you must look out for those sheep! I like small museum like that one.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 28, 2020, 05:41:04 AM
Quote from: aukhawk on June 28, 2020, 04:23:39 AM
Just the way I feel about much of the Hyperion catalogue.

There are certainly some very concerned-looking sheep there.  However they're not looking at the gathering storm - I think someone out-of-frame to the left has just shaken a bucket of sheep-nuts.  ;)
LOL
;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:30:38 AM
I apologize my ignorance, are the sheep mainly for wool production?

Quote from: vandermolen on June 27, 2020, 08:00:17 AM
Oh well done FBK for finding the image! You were more successful that I was. I love that painting. I always relate to scenes of looming threat   ;D
As you can see, the full painting is much more impressive than the truncated image shown on the front of the Walton CD. When I walk in the countryside or look at a landscape painting or photo I often think about what piece of music the landscape in front of me would suit and here the dream became a reality!

(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 12:39:50 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:30:38 AM
I apologize my ignorance, are the sheep mainly for wool production?
Wool or for the meat I guess.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:22:32 AM
Johannesburg Overture, one of my favorite tunes, by the National Youth Orchestra of Scotland. I think they performed excellent and  incredible. I wish I were at the concert hall. If any of the senior members here care to offer a critic of the performance, I would appreciate it.
As for the title of song, is this Johannesburg in the U.K.? What's the historical/social indication of the title? WW2 related?


https://youtu.be/3OtXM4theDY
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 07:27:11 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:22:32 AM
Johannesburg Overture, one of my favorite tunes, by the National Youth Orchestra of Scotland. I think they performed excellent and  incredible. I wish I were at the concert hall. If any of the senior members here care to offer a critic of the performance, I would appreciate it.
As for the title of song, is this Johannesburg in the U.K.? What's the historical/social indication of the title? WW2 related?


https://youtu.be/3OtXM4theDY

This should help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannesburg_Festival_Overture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannesburg_Festival_Overture)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 07:38:10 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:22:32 AM
Johannesburg Overture, one of my favorite tunes, by the National Youth Orchestra of Scotland. I think they performed excellent and  incredible. I wish I were at the concert hall. If any of the senior members here care to offer a critic of the performance, I would appreciate it.
As for the title of song, is this Johannesburg in the U.K.? What's the historical/social indication of the title? WW2 related?


https://youtu.be/3OtXM4theDY

It seems like a very enjoyable performance and I agree with the comments under the video although I'm no expert. Johannesburg is in South Africa not the UK.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:45:22 AM
Thank you. I thought there may be a city called Johannesburg in the U.K. as well...
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 07:53:15 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:45:22 AM
Thank you. I thought there may be a city called Johannesburg in the U.K. as well...

This should tell you everything you need to know about the Johannesburg Festival Overture (taken from the William Walton Trust's website):

Johannesburg Festival Overture, for orchestra (1956)

• Composition: Composed between February and 31 May 1956. Revised some time before publication in 1958, and again slightly thereafter.
• First Performance: Tuesday, 25 September 1956. Broadcast by the South African Broadcasting Corporation, from City Hall, Johannesburg. South African Broadcasting Corporation Symphony Orchestra, Sir Malcolm Sargent conductor.
• Duration: About 7 minutes
• Tempo: Presto capriccioso  [496 m.]
• Craggs Catalogue Number: C66
• Instrumentation: 3 flutes (third doubling piccolo), 2 oboes, cor anglais, 3 clarinets in A, 3 bassoons (third doubling contrabassoon) – 4 horns in F, 3 trumpets in B-flat, 3 trombones, tuba – timpani, 3 or 4 percussion (side drum, cymbals, suspended cymbal, bass drum, xylophone, tambourine, triangle, tenor drum, maracas, rumba sticks, castanets, glockenspiel) – harp – strings
• Manuscript: Frederick R. Koch Collection. Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, Yale University. Manuscript FRKF 630. Autograph full score in pencil, dated 'Forio d'Ischia 31.5.56'. 67 pages. Also includes a photocopy of four pages which were cut from the score and had been removed from the manuscript. Frederick R. Koch Collection. Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, Yale Univesrity. Manuscript FRKF 627a. The originals of the photocopies described above in FRKF 630. 4 pages.
• Publication: Oxford University Press. Study score, 1958, 019 3682508. Score and parts are available on hire. [Purchase online from SheetMusicPlus.com: Study score]
Oxford University Press. Edited by David Lloyd-Jones. William Walton Edition, Volume 14, "Overtures", 2002, 019 3683148.
• Arrangements: Arranged for reduced orchestra, by Vilem Tausky, 1957.
• Instrumentation: Flute (doubling piccolo), 2 oboes, cor anglais, 2 clarinets in A, 2 bassoons – 4 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones, tuba (optional) – timpani, 1 or 2 percussion – harp – strings
• Publication: Oxford University Press. Score and parts are available on hire.
• Recordings:

Orchestra   Conductor   Year   Compact Disc   Timing
New York Philharmonic   André Kostelanetz   1959   Sony Classical 58931   7'23"
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra   Sir Charles Groves   1969   EMI Classics 5 67222 2   7'12"
London Philharmonic   Bryden Thomson   1991   Chandos CHAN 8968   7'49"
English Northern Philharmonia   Paul Daniel   1995   Naxos 8.553402   7'48"

• Program Note: The South African city of Johannesburg, whose seventieth anniversary Walton celebrated in 1956 with this spritely overture, is a radically different city today. It was a painfully divided city then, with racial oppression the law of the land. Yet a common thread links the city's past and present. Like many California towns, it grew spectacularly during the nineteenth-century gold rush. It remains the wealthiest city on the entire continent. As a recent travel brochure states, "Johannesburg is high voltage nouveau riche territory — fast-paced, fun, a modern cosmopolitan metropolis packed with vitality and verve."
Much of that travel bureau prose aptly describes Walton's overture which was written in a complex rondo form (the main section recurs between subsidiary episodes, and concludes the piece.) It opens with strings and woodwinds making a nimble, carefree, flamboyant rhythm. The opening theme is breezy, even a tad jazzy, suggestive of a captivating soundtrack fitting a fast-aced film travelogue. This is a portrait of an African city in English guise, fit music for an English Commonwealth nation.

But it is to Walton's credit that, halfway through the overture, he introduces percussion parts adding a most un-English flavor. Although he never actually visited Africa, for inspiration, he requested recordings of traditional African music from the African Music Society. The impact of these recordings can be clearly heard. The score calls for three percussionists performing upon eleven instruments, and these percussionists bring complex African rhythms (some traditionally Zulu) to the foreground, reminding listeners, then and now, of the multi-racial richness at the heart of Johannesburg.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:58:28 AM
This is very helpful. Thanks a lot!

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 07:53:15 AM
This should tell you everything you need to know about the Johannesburg Festival Overture (taken from the William Walton Trust's website):

Johannesburg Festival Overture, for orchestra (1956)

• Composition: Composed between February and 31 May 1956. Revised some time before publication in 1958, and again slightly thereafter.
• First Performance: Tuesday, 25 September 1956. Broadcast by the South African Broadcasting Corporation, from City Hall, Johannesburg. South African Broadcasting Corporation Symphony Orchestra, Sir Malcolm Sargent conductor.
• Duration: About 7 minutes
• Tempo: Presto capriccioso  [496 m.]
• Craggs Catalogue Number: C66
• Instrumentation: 3 flutes (third doubling piccolo), 2 oboes, cor anglais, 3 clarinets in A, 3 bassoons (third doubling contrabassoon) – 4 horns in F, 3 trumpets in B-flat, 3 trombones, tuba – timpani, 3 or 4 percussion (side drum, cymbals, suspended cymbal, bass drum, xylophone, tambourine, triangle, tenor drum, maracas, rumba sticks, castanets, glockenspiel) – harp – strings
• Manuscript: Frederick R. Koch Collection. Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, Yale University. Manuscript FRKF 630. Autograph full score in pencil, dated 'Forio d'Ischia 31.5.56'. 67 pages. Also includes a photocopy of four pages which were cut from the score and had been removed from the manuscript. Frederick R. Koch Collection. Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, Yale Univesrity. Manuscript FRKF 627a. The originals of the photocopies described above in FRKF 630. 4 pages.
• Publication: Oxford University Press. Study score, 1958, 019 3682508. Score and parts are available on hire. [Purchase online from SheetMusicPlus.com: Study score]
Oxford University Press. Edited by David Lloyd-Jones. William Walton Edition, Volume 14, "Overtures", 2002, 019 3683148.
• Arrangements: Arranged for reduced orchestra, by Vilem Tausky, 1957.
• Instrumentation: Flute (doubling piccolo), 2 oboes, cor anglais, 2 clarinets in A, 2 bassoons – 4 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones, tuba (optional) – timpani, 1 or 2 percussion – harp – strings
• Publication: Oxford University Press. Score and parts are available on hire.
• Recordings:

Orchestra   Conductor   Year   Compact Disc   Timing
New York Philharmonic   André Kostelanetz   1959   Sony Classical 58931   7'23"
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra   Sir Charles Groves   1969   EMI Classics 5 67222 2   7'12"
London Philharmonic   Bryden Thomson   1991   Chandos CHAN 8968   7'49"
English Northern Philharmonia   Paul Daniel   1995   Naxos 8.553402   7'48"

• Program Note: The South African city of Johannesburg, whose seventieth anniversary Walton celebrated in 1956 with this spritely overture, is a radically different city today. It was a painfully divided city then, with racial oppression the law of the land. Yet a common thread links the city's past and present. Like many California towns, it grew spectacularly during the nineteenth-century gold rush. It remains the wealthiest city on the entire continent. As a recent travel brochure states, "Johannesburg is high voltage nouveau riche territory — fast-paced, fun, a modern cosmopolitan metropolis packed with vitality and verve."
Much of that travel bureau prose aptly describes Walton's overture which was written in a complex rondo form (the main section recurs between subsidiary episodes, and concludes the piece.) It opens with strings and woodwinds making a nimble, carefree, flamboyant rhythm. The opening theme is breezy, even a tad jazzy, suggestive of a captivating soundtrack fitting a fast-aced film travelogue. This is a portrait of an African city in English guise, fit music for an English Commonwealth nation.

But it is to Walton's credit that, halfway through the overture, he introduces percussion parts adding a most un-English flavor. Although he never actually visited Africa, for inspiration, he requested recordings of traditional African music from the African Music Society. The impact of these recordings can be clearly heard. The score calls for three percussionists performing upon eleven instruments, and these percussionists bring complex African rhythms (some traditionally Zulu) to the foreground, reminding listeners, then and now, of the multi-racial richness at the heart of Johannesburg.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 08:01:15 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:58:28 AM
This is very helpful. Thanks a lot!

You're welcome. FWIW, Walton is one of my favorite British composers.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:45:22 AM
Thank you. I thought there may be a city called Johannesburg in the U.K. as well...
Not that I'm aware of  :)
I originally came across the work on this fine old LP:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 10:02:19 AM
Such a cool jacket! We need covers like that for the recordings today!
I think all (or almost all) of the pieces  in the album are in the EMI 12 disc set.
They all are great tunes.

I just thought that the ex-colony country is least likely to ask for a music for her honor to a composer in her ex-empire. I could be misunderstanding.

P.s. Not a big fan of the cover art of the 12 disc set. The art of this jacket could have been a lot better for the box.



Quote from: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
Not that I'm aware of  :)
I originally came across the work on this fine old LP:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 02:50:49 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 10:02:19 AM
Such a cool jacket! We need covers like that for the recordings today!
I think all (or almost all) of the pieces  in the album are in the EMI 12 disc set.
They all are great tunes.

I just thought that the ex-colony country is least likely to ask for a music for her honor to a composer in her ex-empire. I could be misunderstanding.

P.s. Not a big fan of the cover art of the 12 disc set. The art of this jacket could have been a lot better for the box.

Good point although S.Africa, like Australia, New Zealand and Canada were considered to be 'Dominions' (to put it frankly they were the 'white' part of the Empire) and were self-governing, so they were independent parts of the Empire with their own governments and, unlike the colonies, were not ruled directly from London. S. Africa left the Commonwealth in 1961 before they were expelled due to their racist policies of apartheid but that was a few years after Walton composed his overture.
Here's the CD cover - not as nice as the LP version I think. The original CD release was closer to the LP and there's a good recording of the overture on Naxos as well:

(//%5Bimg%5D)[/img]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: calyptorhynchus on July 04, 2020, 03:28:45 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 09:03:36 AM
I originally came across the work on this fine old LP:
(//)
Not that I'm a military aircraft tragic ( :) ) but that Spitfire looks like a very much later mark than those that fought in the Battle of Britain.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 06:48:44 PM
They are good looking art covers!  Plus, I like A. Grimshaw.
Johannesburg Festival is in one of the albums titled Walton Conducts Walton as well.
There are other songs I like, including Partitas, Portsmouth Point, and Orb and Sceptre, in the album.
They all sound superb.
As you previously said, I think Walton is a good/great conductor!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lZt_TKTVIzv_a9oG-qLF_3zb8ijhd46os




Quote from: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 02:50:49 PM
Good point although S.Africa, like Australia, New Zealand and Canada were considered to be 'Dominions' (to put it frankly they were the 'white' part of the Empire) and were self-governing, so they were independent parts of the Empire with their own governments and, unlike the colonies, were not ruled directly from London. S. Africa left the Commonwealth in 1961 before they were expelled due to their racist policies of apartheid but that was a few years after Walton composed his overture.
Here's the CD cover - not as nice as the LP version I think. The original CD release was closer to the LP and there's a good recording of the overture on Naxos as well:

[/img]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 11:13:01 PM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on July 04, 2020, 03:28:45 PM
Not that I'm a military aircraft tragic ( :) ) but that Spitfire looks like a very much later mark than those that fought in the Battle of Britain.
I agree. If it has four, as opposed to three, blades on the propellor, which I think it has, it's more likely to be a 'D-Day' type variant I think. I wasn't the son of a war-time RAF navigator for nothing!  ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 11:18:12 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 06:48:44 PM
They are good looking art covers!  Plus, I like A. Grimshaw.
Johannesburg Festival is in one of the albums titled Walton Conducts Walton as well.
There are other songs I like, including Partitas, Portsmouth Point, and Orb and Sceptre, in the album.
They all sound superb.
As you previously said, I think Walton is a good/great conductor!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lZt_TKTVIzv_a9oG-qLF_3zb8ijhd46os
+1 for Atkinson Grimshaw - those paintings are so atmospheric. I have a book of his paintings here. I like all those works by Walton, especially the Partita, Crown Imperial and Portsmouth Point. I wonder if you know his Henry V film music (not just the short orchestral extracts). Along with the Symphony No.1, the Sinfonia Concertante and the Viola Concerto it is one of my favourite works by Walton. Two fine recordings below (in a minute!). Here they are:
[/img]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: calyptorhynchus on July 05, 2020, 12:13:08 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 11:13:01 PM
I wasn't the son of a war-time RAF navigator for nothing!  ;D
I am the son of a WW2 RAF navigator too! My father served mainly in India and Burma.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 05, 2020, 07:13:46 AM
Yes, I like the Henry V, as well as the Richard III. I will look for the Marriner set (premier recording?).


Quote from: vandermolen on July 04, 2020, 11:18:12 PM
+1 for Atkinson Grimshaw - those paintings are so atmospheric. I have a book of his paintings here. I like all those works by Walton, especially the Partita, Crown Imperial and Portsmouth Point. I wonder if you know his Henry V film music (not just the short orchestral extracts). Along with the Symphony No.1, the Sinfonia Concertante and the Viola Concerto it is one of my favourite works by Walton. Two fine recordings below (in a minute!). Here they are:
[/img]
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2020, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on July 05, 2020, 12:13:08 AM
I am the son of a WW2 RAF navigator too! My father served mainly in India and Burma.
Interesting! My father was in Coastal Command and flew in the Mosquito aircraft.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2020, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 05, 2020, 07:13:46 AM
Yes, I like the Henry V, as well as the Richard III. I will look for the Marriner set (premier recording?).
The Marriner set is terrific in all respects. First recording of the complete score arranged by Christopher Palmer but I would not be without the version narrated by Laurence Olivier who starred in the original film.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 05:47:59 AM
I thought that the Olivier set was in the 12 disc box, but I was wrong. I will get the album. Also the Mackerras No.1 is not in the box either and I need to get it. I must find out what EMI recordings are not included in the box set.


Quote from: vandermolen on July 05, 2020, 11:46:27 AM
The Marriner set is terrific in all respects. First recording of the complete score arranged by Christopher Palmer but I would not be without the version narrated by Laurence Olivier who starred in the original film.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2020, 06:16:25 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 05:47:59 AM
I thought that the Olivier set was in the 12 disc box, but I was wrong. I will get the album. Also the Mackerras No.1 is not in the box either and I need to get it. I must find out what EMI recordings are not included in the box set.

The Walton Henry V is quite expensive on Amazon.com but the Marriner is very inexpensive - you should enjoy that disc. The Mackerras CD of the two Walton symphonies is inexpensive, especially in its 'EMI Eminence' manifestation. There is also a good complete Henry V on Naxos featuring that fine actor Michael Sheen (actually you get two fine actors as the release also features Anton Lesser) but he is rather too closely miked and the orchestra is quite recessed. It is still a most enjoyable CD:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
I checked the Andrew Penny set on YT, and it sounds very good. Unexpectedly, the sound quality is good too. The vocal is a little big, but it doesn't annoy me.  I like the performance by the orchestra. I need to get the disc.
A little serious question is that the back cover mentions Christopher Palmer, not M. Mathieson, as an arranger. If I am not mistaken, would this indicate a different arrangement? Apology for my ignorance, but there are so many recordings/versions of Henry V, and I am neither in the relevant generation nor U.K. citizen.

P.s. do you like rugby, Jeffrey? If SIr WW wrote a music for the Red and Whites, it would have been great!


Quote from: vandermolen on July 06, 2020, 06:16:25 AM
The Walton Henry V is quite expensive on Amazon.com but the Marriner is very inexpensive - you should enjoy that disc. The Mackerras CD of the two Walton symphonies is inexpensive, especially in its 'EMI Eminence' manifestation. There is also a good complete Henry V on Naxos featuring that fine actor Michael Sheen (actually you get two fine actors as the release also features Anton Lesser) but he is rather too closely miked and the orchestra is quite recessed. It is still a most enjoyable CD:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 06, 2020, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
I checked the Andrew Penny set on YT, and it sounds very good. Unexpectedly, the sound quality is good too. The vocal is a little big, but it doesn't annoy me.  I like the performance by the orchestra. I need to get the disc.
A little serious question is that the back cover mentions Christopher Palmer, not M. Mathieson, as an arranger. If I am not mistaken, would this indicate a different arrangement? Apology for my ignorance, but there are so many recordings/versions of Henry V, and I am neither in the relevant generation nor U.K. citizen.

P.s. do you like rugby, Jeffrey? If SIr WW wrote a music for the Red and Whites, it would have been great!

Brett - perfectly reasonable question.  Muir Mathieson was one of the main driving forces behind British music in film.  His name turns up on inumerable films as conductor etc.  His role in creating the concert suite of Henry V was simply to adapt the music to make it work away from the screen.  This would involve re-arranging the music to remove the chorus etc and/or ensure the orchestration was "standard".  Christopher Palmer went a stage further.  Palmer was one of the GREAT film score arrangers/restorers and he died far too young.  His name also turns up on many great albums of film music.  The difference is that he sought to restore the music as heard on the original sound track.  With Henry V he then fashioned the music into a single coherent span thereby creating what he called this "scenario for orchestra".  So while both scores are of the "same" music they are different and a Walton fan would probably want both.  Walton of course recorded the Mathieson suite with the Philharmonia (different from the version with Olivier speaking excerpts) and that still sounds excellent.  But Palmer allows you to hear so much more music than is included in the quite brief suite

PS:  when I was at school in Liverpool in the 70's - the RLPO used to run daytime "school concerts" and I remember one being conducted by Muir Mathieson - a significant fact that eluded me in all my teenaged indifference.  I also remember they played "Dambusters" march at the concert which was my first encounter with Eric Coates and I loved it!  Ron Goodwin was another RLPO regular who led brilliantly entertaining concerts I remember.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2020, 11:55:42 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
I checked the Andrew Penny set on YT, and it sounds very good. Unexpectedly, the sound quality is good too. The vocal is a little big, but it doesn't annoy me.  I like the performance by the orchestra. I need to get the disc.
A little serious question is that the back cover mentions Christopher Palmer, not M. Mathieson, as an arranger. If I am not mistaken, would this indicate a different arrangement? Apology for my ignorance, but there are so many recordings/versions of Henry V, and I am neither in the relevant generation nor U.K. citizen.

P.s. do you like rugby, Jeffrey? If SIr WW wrote a music for the Red and Whites, it would have been great!
Hi FBK. Roasted Swan has provided a much more coherent answer than I could  :)
Yes, Christopher Palmer died much too young. I remember an excellent and highly entertaining TV documentary about the composer Bernard Herrmann in which Christopher Palmer made some memorable and highly entertaining contributions. He also championed lesser known British composer like Sir George Dyson (you might enjoy his Symphony which is on Naxos). As for your rugby question I'm not sure if you mean the work by Honegger (a recent discovery - I like it very much) or the game of rugby (no, I much prefer soccer - I don't like cricket either :o)
Yes, the Penny CD is well worth having.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 07:21:43 AM
Jeffrey and Roasted, thank you for the helpful info and much deep insights on Henry V. In addition to the genius of Walton, I admire the exceptional talent of Mathieson and Palmer.
I read the info about Henry V Suite on the Wikipedia, and now I understand that there are 3 Suites, including the Malcolm Sargent (1945), Mathieson (1963) and Palmer (1988) versions.
The Sargent suite was recorded by Carl Davis, whereas the Mathieson suite was recorded by Walton, Groves, Previn, Litton, etc. Palmers'  Henry V Shakespeare Scenario was recorded by Marriner, Slatkin and Andrew Penny. (Palmer created Richard III Shakespeare Scenario as well).

My 12 disc box has the Sargent/Davis and Mathieson/Walton recordings of Henry V, and I checked all others, except the Slatkin, on Internet. All of them sound good, but the EMI recording conducted by Walton sounds penetrating and exceptional.  Also I prefer the Richard III in the album to the same by Grove. Plus, the Spitfire conducted by Walton sounds so cool. Jeffrey, thank you for recommending this album. Roasted, thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense why I heard the theme of History of English Speaking People in some recordings of Henry V. I envy your experience with the RLPO in Liverpool! I didn't have a similar privilege in north Japan. I ordered the EMI Walton as well as the Penny and Marriner albums. I don't know much about Slatkin's recording (Palmer suite), but will look for it. Thanks a lot.

P.s. I was impressed by the English rugby sport team in the Rugby World Cup last year. As for soccer, both the men and women teams of England are exceptional.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_from_Henry_V

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 07:32:04 AM
Thank you for your explanation. Now I understand better. I ordered the Penny/Marriner(Palmer) as well as the Walton/Mathieson recordings. I will look for the Slatkin. When I was a kid I was listening to the Beatles, mostly Lennon, and dreaming about Liverpool.


Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 06, 2020, 11:14:33 PM
Brett - perfectly reasonable question.  Muir Mathieson was one of the main driving forces behind British music in film.  His name turns up on inumerable films as conductor etc.  His role in creating the concert suite of Henry V was simply to adapt the music to make it work away from the screen.  This would involve re-arranging the music to remove the chorus etc and/or ensure the orchestration was "standard".  Christopher Palmer went a stage further.  Palmer was one of the GREAT film score arrangers/restorers and he died far too young.  His name also turns up on many great albums of film music.  The difference is that he sought to restore the music as heard on the original sound track.  With Henry V he then fashioned the music into a single coherent span thereby creating what he called this "scenario for orchestra".  So while both scores are of the "same" music they are different and a Walton fan would probably want both.  Walton of course recorded the Mathieson suite with the Philharmonia (different from the version with Olivier speaking excerpts) and that still sounds excellent.  But Palmer allows you to hear so much more music than is included in the quite brief suite

PS:  when I was at school in Liverpool in the 70's - the RLPO used to run daytime "school concerts" and I remember one being conducted by Muir Mathieson - a significant fact that eluded me in all my teenaged indifference.  I also remember they played "Dambusters" march at the concert which was my first encounter with Eric Coates and I loved it!  Ron Goodwin was another RLPO regular who led brilliantly entertaining concerts I remember.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 07:21:43 AM
Jeffrey and Roasted, thank you for the helpful info and much deep insights on Henry V. In addition to the genius of Walton, I admire the exceptional talent of Mathieson and Palmer.
I read the info about Henry V Suite on the Wikipedia, and now I understand that there are 3 Suites, including the Malcolm Sargent (1945), Mathieson (1963) and Palmer (1988) versions.
The Sargent suite was recorded by Carl Davis, whereas the Mathieson suite was recorded by Walton, Groves, Previn, Litton, etc. Palmers'  Henry V Shakespeare Scenario was recorded by Marriner, Slatkin and Andrew Penny. (Palmer created Richard III Shakespeare Scenario as well).

My 12 disc box has the Sargent/Davis and Mathieson/Walton recordings of Henry V, and I checked all others, except the Slatkin, on Internet. All of them sound good, but the EMI recording conducted by Walton sounds penetrating and exceptional.  Also I prefer the Richard III in the album to the same by Grove. Plus, the Spitfire conducted by Walton sounds so cool. Jeffrey, thank you for recommending this album. Roasted, thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense why I heard the theme of History of English Speaking People in some recordings of Henry V. I envy your experience with the RLPO in Liverpool! I didn't have a similar privilege in north Japan. I ordered the EMI Walton as well as the Penny and Marriner albums. I don't know much about Slatkin's recording (Palmer suite), but will look for it. Thanks a lot.

P.s. I was impressed by the English rugby sport team in the Rugby World Cup last year. As for soccer, both the men and women teams of England are exceptional.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_from_Henry_V
FBK - your 'Jeffrey and Roasted' comment made me laugh. I should have mentioned the excellent Carl Davis recording of the film music which I think you have in your boxed set. Crucially the Sargent version of Henry V includes 'Prelude-The Globe' which is not included in the more popular Mathieson arrangement. That Prelude, however is very moving as it's played against a panning in shot of medieval London. This was a patriotic wartime propaganda film of course, like Alexander Nevsky (pre-war) or Ivan Grozny in the USSR. The prologue theme comes back later '...this star of England' and, as I say, I find it very moving in its wartime context. That CD also includes the lovely 'As You Like It' Suite with the charming Fountain Scene and, of course, Walton's rejected score for Battle of Britain. It was only due to Laurence Olivier's intervention that any of Walton's score was used at all: 'The Battle in the Air' which is the best music in the film:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 07, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 07:21:43 AM
Jeffrey and Roasted, thank you for the helpful info and much deep insights on Henry V. In addition to the genius of Walton, I admire the exceptional talent of Mathieson and Palmer.
I read the info about Henry V Suite on the Wikipedia, and now I understand that there are 3 Suites, including the Malcolm Sargent (1945), Mathieson (1963) and Palmer (1988) versions.
The Sargent suite was recorded by Carl Davis, whereas the Mathieson suite was recorded by Walton, Groves, Previn, Litton, etc. Palmers'  Henry V Shakespeare Scenario was recorded by Marriner, Slatkin and Andrew Penny. (Palmer created Richard III Shakespeare Scenario as well).

My 12 disc box has the Sargent/Davis and Mathieson/Walton recordings of Henry V, and I checked all others, except the Slatkin, on Internet. All of them sound good, but the EMI recording conducted by Walton sounds penetrating and exceptional.  Also I prefer the Richard III in the album to the same by Grove. Plus, the Spitfire conducted by Walton sounds so cool. Jeffrey, thank you for recommending this album. Roasted, thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense why I heard the theme of History of English Speaking People in some recordings of Henry V. I envy your experience with the RLPO in Liverpool! I didn't have a similar privilege in north Japan. I ordered the EMI Walton as well as the Penny and Marriner albums. I don't know much about Slatkin's recording (Palmer suite), but will look for it. Thanks a lot.

P.s. I was impressed by the English rugby sport team in the Rugby World Cup last year. As for soccer, both the men and women teams of England are exceptional.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_from_Henry_V

The Slatkin was a BBC Music Magazine cover disc which I have and remember as good - Sam West as the speaker.   In the light of this discussion I've just ordered the Naxos/Penny/Sheen disc too.  Sheen is such a fine actor I think he'd be excellent in the spoken part.  I find Christopher Plummer on Chandos a bit underwhelming although the orchestral contribution is first rate!  There was also an old Readers Digest selection with Charles Gerhardt conducting who is always top notch in film music.

Palmer wrote a great book about the Hollywood Film music composers too which is excellent.....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 09:50:19 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
FBK - your 'Jeffrey and Roasted' comment made me laugh. I should have mentioned the excellent Carl Davis recording of the film music which I think you have in your boxed set. Crucially the Sargent version of Henry V includes 'Prelude-The Globe' which is not included in the more popular Mathieson arrangement. That Prelude, however is very moving as it's played against a panning in shot of medieval London. This was a patriotic wartime propaganda film of course, like Alexander Nevsky (pre-war) or Ivan Grozny in the USSR. The prologue theme comes back later '...this star of England' and, as I say, I find it very moving in its wartime context. That CD also includes the lovely 'As You Like It' Suite with the charming Fountain Scene and, of course, Walton's rejected score for Battle of Britain. It was only due to Laurence Olivier's intervention that any of Walton's score was used at all: 'The Battle in the Air' which is the best music in the film:
(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=324.0;attach=65696;image)

That's a stunning recording right there, Jeffrey. I absolutely feel in love with the As You Like It Suite. Don't forget that incredible Waterfall Scene section. This was Walton in full-blown Respighi mode, especially towards the end with the magnificent brass. Makes my ears perk up --- incredibly gorgeous.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 09:50:19 AM
That's a stunning recording right there, Jeffrey. I absolutely feel in love with the As You Like It Suite. Don't forget that incredible Waterfall Scene section. This was Walton in full-blown Respighi mode, especially towards the end with the magnificent brass. Makes my ears perk up --- incredibly gorgeous.
Oh, I think that I meant 'Waterfall' rather than 'Fountain Scene' - yes, lovely.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 01:37:47 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 07, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
The Slatkin was a BBC Music Magazine cover disc which I have and remember as good - Sam West as the speaker.   In the light of this discussion I've just ordered the Naxos/Penny/Sheen disc too.  Sheen is such a fine actor I think he'd be excellent in the spoken part.  I find Christopher Plummer on Chandos a bit underwhelming although the orchestral contribution is first rate!  There was also an old Readers Digest selection with Charles Gerhardt conducting who is always top notch in film music.

Palmer wrote a great book about the Hollywood Film music composers too which is excellent.....
I have the BBC Sam West disc too. I'm sure you'll enjoy the Naxos, Penny, Sheen, Lesser disc. There's also a version with a reduced orchestra featuring John 'Bergerac' Nettles:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 02:21:08 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 01:36:17 PM
Oh, I think that I meant 'Waterfall' rather than 'Fountain Scene' - yes, lovely.

Well, to be fair, the Fountain Scene is beautiful, too. ;)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 02:21:08 PM
Well, to be fair, the Fountain Scene is beautiful, too. ;)
Oh, you're quite right. I must listen to the Suite again.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 07, 2020, 11:35:04 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 06, 2020, 11:14:33 PM
Brett - perfectly reasonable question.  Muir Mathieson was one of the main driving forces behind British music in film.  His name turns up on inumerable films as conductor etc.  His role in creating the concert suite of Henry V was simply to adapt the music to make it work away from the screen.  This would involve re-arranging the music to remove the chorus etc and/or ensure the orchestration was "standard".  Christopher Palmer went a stage further.  Palmer was one of the GREAT film score arrangers/restorers and he died far too young.  His name also turns up on many great albums of film music.  The difference is that he sought to restore the music as heard on the original sound track.  With Henry V he then fashioned the music into a single coherent span thereby creating what he called this "scenario for orchestra".  So while both scores are of the "same" music they are different and a Walton fan would probably want both.  Walton of course recorded the Mathieson suite with the Philharmonia (different from the version with Olivier speaking excerpts) and that still sounds excellent.  But Palmer allows you to hear so much more music than is included in the quite brief suite

PS:  when I was at school in Liverpool in the 70's - the RLPO used to run daytime "school concerts" and I remember one being conducted by Muir Mathieson - a significant fact that eluded me in all my teenaged indifference.  I also remember they played "Dambusters" march at the concert which was my first encounter with Eric Coates and I loved it!  Ron Goodwin was another RLPO regular who led brilliantly entertaining concerts I remember.

Good to see Muir Mathieson's name turning up in this discussion. He made some fine recordings as the "house" conductor for the subscription record label The World Record Club and have always thought he didn't receive credit due.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 11:56:30 PM
Quote from: Irons on July 07, 2020, 11:35:04 PM
Good to see Muir Mathieson's name turning up in this discussion. He made some fine recordings as the "house" conductor for the subscription record label The World Record Club and have always thought he didn't receive credit due.
That looks like an interesting release Lol. I didn't know it existed. I associate Muir Mathieson with film music and have a nice CD featuring Boult's first (EMI) recording of Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony coupled with his film music. Three of the film scores are conducted by Mathieson:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 08, 2020, 02:33:14 AM
From the LSO's website:

In March 1935 the musicians of the LSO gathered at London's old Scala Theatre in Tottenham Street to perform the music for the new film Things to Come and, following 14 full orchestral sessions, started a veritable revolution in film production history.

Until that time, recorded film music had consisted essentially of work by small bands and groups performing theme songs and pieces of short background music. But with the commissioning of Sir Arthur Bliss to compose a score performed by a full symphony orchestra for Alexander Korda's adaptation of H G Wells's famous novel, the face of film music was changed forever – not only in Britain but also around the world. For the first time, music for the cinema, previously regarded as a lowly art form, captured the attention of classical music scholars and enthusiasts, music critics and the film and music public. The LSO had begun its long historic journey as the premier film orchestra.

Muir Mathieson's influence:

It was Korda's brilliant Scottish musical director Muir Mathieson, the most important single figure in the early history of British film music, who enlisted Bliss to write a score for Things to Come, and who was subsequently responsible for bringing the most eminent British 20th-century composers to work for cinema. Ralph Vaughan Williams, William Walton, Richard Addinsell, William Alwyn and Arnold Bax composed for film as a direct result of Mathieson's musical expertise and burning enthusiasm.

Mathieson had attended the Royal College of Music, studying composition and conducting under Arthur Benjamin and Malcolm Sargent, and was trusted by the music establishment. He adored the LSO and played a key part in establishing its fundamental contribution to film music. Describing the LSO as 'the perfect film orchestra', Mathieson's significance was highlighted in 1946 when he directed Instruments of the Orchestra, a precious film record of the LSO at work.

Malcolm Sargent conducted the musicians in a performance of Benjamin Britten's The Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra, which was specially written by Britten for the film. Made essentially as an educational tool for children, Mathieson's documentary, with its close-ups of the musicians and their instruments, beautifully captures the vibrancy and texture of the Orchestra amidst the optimism of the post-Second World War era.

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/9c/b3/8d/9cb38d36f625b791f15f4eea366391d9--royalty-free-image-hamlet.jpg)

Here's a picture of Walton, Olivier and Mathieson on the set of Hamlet
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 08, 2020, 06:04:44 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 11:56:30 PM
That looks like an interesting release Lol. I didn't know it existed. I associate Muir Mathieson with film music and have a nice CD featuring Boult's first (EMI) recording of Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony coupled with his film music. Three of the film scores are conducted by Mathieson:
(//)

Took a peep at Mathieson's discography Jeffrey and as you say film music is paramount. I can't help feeling if only .....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 06:23:40 AM
😍😍😍😍😍


Quote from: Irons on July 08, 2020, 06:04:44 AM
Took a peep at Mathieson's discography Jeffrey and as you say film music is paramount. I can't help feeling if only .....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 06:44:15 AM
Quote from: Irons on July 08, 2020, 06:04:44 AM
Took a peep at Mathieson's discography Jeffrey and as you say film music is paramount. I can't help feeling if only .....
I've just ordered the Tchaikovsky 'Pathetique' LP - your fault  ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 09:11:42 AM
Yes, the prelude-globe is a spiritual and sublime piece. I can't believe that this is not included in the subsequent Suites.
It would take a year for me to fully grasp the difference among the 3 versions of Henry V as well as the nuances in many recordings.
I forgot to mention the Judd/Mathieson recording. My intuition is that you already have the album.


Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
FBK - your 'Jeffrey and Roasted' comment made me laugh. I should have mentioned the excellent Carl Davis recording of the film music which I think you have in your boxed set. Crucially the Sargent version of Henry V includes 'Prelude-The Globe' which is not included in the more popular Mathieson arrangement. That Prelude, however is very moving as it's played against a panning in shot of medieval London. This was a patriotic wartime propaganda film of course, like Alexander Nevsky (pre-war) or Ivan Grozny in the USSR. The prologue theme comes back later '...this star of England' and, as I say, I find it very moving in its wartime context. That CD also includes the lovely 'As You Like It' Suite with the charming Fountain Scene and, of course, Walton's rejected score for Battle of Britain. It was only due to Laurence Olivier's intervention that any of Walton's score was used at all: 'The Battle in the Air' which is the best music in the film:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 08, 2020, 10:02:41 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 09:11:42 AM
Yes, the prelude-globe is a spiritual and sublime piece. I can't believe that this is not included in the subsequent Suites.
It would take a year for me to fully grasp the difference among the 3 versions of Henry V as well as the nuances in many recordings.
I forgot to mention the Judd/Mathieson recording. My intuition is that you already have the album.

Brett - that Judd disc is very fine.  He is an excellent but often underappreciated conductor and Aaron Rosand was one of my favourite violinists with a musical temperament well suited to the Walton violin concerto
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 10:42:35 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 09:11:42 AM
Yes, the prelude-globe is a spiritual and sublime piece. I can't believe that this is not included in the subsequent Suites.
It would take a year for me to fully grasp the difference among the 3 versions of Henry V as well as the nuances in many recordings.
I forgot to mention the Judd/Mathieson recording. My intuition is that you already have the album.
FBK - thanks for reminding me of that disc which I do have (somewhere!) Unfortunately I think that the Henry V Suite is the Mathieson version rather than the Sargent - so no 'Prelude, the Globe' as far as I recall but RS is right that it is still a fine disc. I'm glad that you also think highly of 'Prelude -The Globe'. Like you I can't understand why it was missed out by Mathieson, which reminds me of Christopher Palmer and Bernard Herrmann missing out 'Machines' from Bliss's Suite from 'Things to Come'. Bliss included it in his own recording, recently reissued for the first time on Decca and I think that he knew best.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 08, 2020, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 06:44:15 AM
I've just ordered the Tchaikovsky 'Pathetique' LP - your fault  ;D

Guilty as charged! :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 02:25:16 PM
Quote from: Irons on July 08, 2020, 11:40:31 AM
Guilty as charged! :)
;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
I ordered the disc  ;D ;D ;D ;D. Thank you for the rec.

Jeffrey: Too bad, it seems to me that the Carl Davis set is the only one existent recording of the Henry V/Sargent material. I am glad that it is included in the EMI box set!



Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 08, 2020, 10:02:41 AM
Brett - that Judd disc is very fine.  He is an excellent but often underappreciated conductor and Aaron Rosand was one of my favourite violinists with a musical temperament well suited to the Walton violin concerto
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 08:57:18 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
I ordered the disc  ;D ;D ;D ;D. Thank you for the rec.

Jeffrey: Too bad, it seems to me that the Carl Davis set is the only one existent recording of the Henry V/Sargent material. I am glad that it is included in the EMI box set!

FBK - yes, I think that you are quite right, although of course the Christopher Palmer 'Scenario' features the Globe Prelude. By the way the Olivier recording, which also includes it can be picked up very cheaply from Amazon UK although, of course, you'd have to pay the postage to the USA:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Henry-Scenes-other-music/dp/B001J9T3WM

The title of the first customer review: 'Once more unto the Amazon shopping basket' made me laugh.
I also contributed a review myself and had a nice little exchange with the 'Amazon shopping basket' man in the comments section under his review.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 09, 2020, 06:01:26 AM
Thank you Jeffrey. I already ordered the Walton-Olivier, Marriner and Penny albums. I will be busy listening these albums this year.
Succinct and informative review on Amazon! The shopping basket man provided a good review too. I was listening the Carl Davis recording yesterday. Sounds very good and colorful.




Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 08:57:18 PM
FBK - yes, I think that you are quite right, although of course the Christopher Palmer 'Scenario' features the Globe Prelude. By the way the Olivier recording, which also includes it can be picked up very cheaply from Amazon UK although, of course, you'd have to pay the postage to the USA:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Henry-Scenes-other-music/dp/B001J9T3WM

The title of the first customer review: 'Once more unto the Amazon shopping basket' made me laugh.
I also contributed a review myself and had a nice little exchange with the 'Amazon shopping basket' man in the comments section under his review.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 09, 2020, 07:10:02 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 09, 2020, 06:01:26 AM
Thank you Jeffrey. I already ordered the Walton-Olivier, Marriner and Penny albums. I will be busy listening these albums this year.
Succinct and informative review on Amazon! The shopping basket man provided a good review too. I was listening the Carl Davis recording yesterday. Sounds very good and colorful.
Excellent DBK (you've changed your name  :o) thank you. I suspect that all those albums will give you great pleasure. The Olivier album with Richard III, Hamlet and the Spitfire thrown in has always been very special. One of the most enjoyable Walton discs I think, notwithstanding Symphony No.1, Belshazzar etc. Yes, I liked the shopping basket man's review. The Carl Davis album is great but you have it in your boxed set. Happy listening  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 09, 2020, 07:24:39 AM
A few people told me that members here may think I am a right-wing fanatic. That would be an insult to the right-wing fanatics, so I changed the name.
Apropos of the No. 1, the Boult set is the recording I like most "as of now." It is powerful and somehow three-dimentional. I may be biased because I admire him.


Quote from: vandermolen on July 09, 2020, 07:10:02 AM
Excellent DBK (you've changed your name  :o) thank you. I suspect that all those albums will give you great pleasure. The Olivier album with Richard III, Hamlet and the Spitfire thrown in has always been very special. One of the most enjoyable Walton discs I think, notwithstanding Symphony No.1, Belshazzar etc. Yes, I liked the shopping basket man's review. The Carl Davis album is great but you have it in your boxed set. Happy listening  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 09, 2020, 08:09:07 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 09, 2020, 07:24:39 AM
A few people told me that members here may think I am a right-wing fanatic. That would be an insult to the right-wing fanatics, so I changed the name.
Apropos of the No. 1, the Boult set is the recording I like most "as of now." It is powerful and somehow three-dimentional. I may be biased because I admire him.

You may have changed your name but thankfully not your avatar from the great blues man, Robert Johnson. Do not change that!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 09, 2020, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: Irons on July 09, 2020, 08:09:07 AM
You may have changed your name but thankfully not your avatar from the great blues man, Robert Johnson. Do not change that!
I agree. I don't know the artist but it's a great picture.

The best transfer of the Boult recording of Symphony No.1 is here:
(//)
However, the Somm disc is fine and includes Belshazzar's Feast.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 09, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
I know this has been discussed several times before.  But today I picked up cheaply on Amazon this

[asin]B002COJCVA[/asin]

I've always enjoyed it as a film - the aerial sequences are still so powerful - but the reason for mentioning it here is that the viewer can choose to watch the film with either the original Walton soundtrack or the replacement Ron Goodwin one (which leaves the Walton "Battle in the Air" intact).  Apart from comparing the inherent qualities of the 2 scores - and the Goodwin is actually very good I find his closing credits sequence with the single Spitfire to be very powerful, it makes a fascinating study in how music shapes our emotional response to visual cues - just try the two differing opening marches to see what I mean.  The "double" (Walton & Goodwin complete) soundtrack can be bought as well

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410JP6H5SML._AC_.jpg)

but stupidly expensive!  The interest here is the different takes of Arnold conducting "Battle in the Air"
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 09, 2020, 11:38:07 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 09, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
I know this has been discussed several times before.  But today I picked up cheaply on Amazon this

[asin]B002COJCVA[/asin]

I've always enjoyed it as a film - the aerial sequences are still so powerful - but the reason for mentioning it here is that the viewer can choose to watch the film with either the original Walton soundtrack or the replacement Ron Goodwin one (which leaves the Walton "Battle in the Air" intact).  Apart from comparing the inherent qualities of the 2 scores - and the Goodwin is actually very good I find his closing credits sequence with the single Spitfire to be very powerful, it makes a fascinating study in how music shapes our emotional response to visual cues - just try the two differing opening marches to see what I mean.  The "double" (Walton & Goodwin complete) soundtrack can be bought as well

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410JP6H5SML._AC_.jpg)

but stupidly expensive!  The interest here is the different takes of Arnold conducting "Battle in the Air"
Great stuff RS! I don't have a Blu-Ray player but I have the DVD which allows you to programme either soundtrack. It must be quite unique from that point of view. Today is 80th Anniversary of the start of the Battle of Britain (I've just been watching a news item about how a 13 year old girl helped her dad work out how the Spitfire could accommodate eight rather than four machine guns in its wings) so, perfect timing for your purchase. I think that the film has improved with age and works surprisingly well on TV. I must watch the closing credits again as I thought it ended with an empty sky. I've seen it suggested, possibly here, that Malcolm Arnold may have had a hand in composing 'Battle in the Air' instead of just conducting it but I've no idea if that is true:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 10, 2020, 06:16:38 AM
I've been looking at the EMI Walton Edition boxed set. It does contain the Groves recordings of the Spitfire Prelude and Fugue, Johannesburg Festival Overture as well as interestingly chosing Haitink's granitic performance of the First Symphony (which I like) and the excellent Carl Davis CD of the film music.

On the subject of Spitfires, one just flew over the garden as I was hanging out the washing (being a domestic type you understand). I think that the Spitifire must have come from Dame Vera Lynn's funeral which was being held today in Ditchling, Sussex. The fly-past was a nice tribute to her role in raising wartime morale:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 10, 2020, 08:01:52 AM
Yes the Groves recording in the box is wonderful- sharp performance and very good sound quality. I guess they were recorded in the 70-80s?
I thought that the Haitink No.1 was very good and I was happy about it, but David Hurwitz, a critic, thinks otherwise (and he is with the Previn orthodoxy).
The box is a very good set to overview his major works.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/emis-underwhelming-walton-collectors-edition/

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=785499


I don't know about Vernon Handley, but enjoyed his Var. Hindemith.







Quote from: vandermolen on July 10, 2020, 06:16:38 AM
I've been looking at the EMI Walton Edition boxed set. It does contain the Groves recordings of the Spitfire Prelude and Fugue, Johannesburg Festival Overture as well as interestingly chosing Haitink's granitic performance of the First Symphony (which I like) and the excellent Carl Davis CD of the film music.

On the subject of Spitfires, one just flew over the garden as I was hanging out the washing (being a domestic type you understand). I think that the Spitifire must have come from Dame Vera Lynn's funeral which was being held today in Ditchling, Sussex. The fly-past was a nice tribute to her role in raising wartime morale:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 10, 2020, 08:23:51 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 10, 2020, 08:01:52 AM
Yes the Groves recording in the box is wonderful- sharp performance and very good sound quality. I guess they were recorded in the 70-80s?
I thought that the Haitink No.1 was very good and I was happy about it, but David Hurwitz, a critic, thinks otherwise (and he is with the Previn orthodoxy).
The box is a very good set to overview his major works.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/emis-underwhelming-walton-collectors-edition/

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=785499


I don't know about Vernon Handley, but enjoyed his Var. Hindemith.

The text bolded need a special emphasis. You know the old saying "Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has them." Who gives a damn about what that guy thinks. If this loser felt NOTHING from The Waterfall Scene in the As You Like It Suite, then he can no longer be trusted.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 10, 2020, 08:33:48 AM
😆😆😆

I don't have the membership and couldn't read the entire review. Usually I tend to agree with his reviews and insights, as well as yours, but this time I may disagree with him on the Haitink No. 1 and this box set.

The Waterfall Scene is a great piece.


Quote from: Mirror Image on July 10, 2020, 08:23:51 AM
The text bolded need a special emphasis. You know the old saying "Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has them." Who gives a damn about what that guy thinks. If this loser felt NOTHING from The Waterfall Scene in the As You Like It Suite, then he can no longer be trusted.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 10, 2020, 09:13:28 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 10, 2020, 08:01:52 AM
Yes the Groves recording in the box is wonderful- sharp performance and very good sound quality. I guess they were recorded in the 70-80s?
I thought that the Haitink No.1 was very good and I was happy about it, but David Hurwitz, a critic, thinks otherwise (and he is with the Previn orthodoxy).
The box is a very good set to overview his major works.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/emis-underwhelming-walton-collectors-edition/

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=785499


I don't know about Vernon Handley, but enjoyed his Var. Hindemith.
Much as I admire Previn I've never liked that performance and prefer his later recording with the RPO. For me, that crucial oboe solo at the start has to be full of nervous tension, fragile, pleading and tentative. It sounds too matter-of-fact and prosaic in that Previn version and, after that, I lost all interest in the performance. I actually much prefer the Boult and Malcolm Sargent recordings. :o
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 10, 2020, 10:11:13 AM
One of the Amazon reviews contends that the Henry V/Sargent suite was in fact made by Walton himself rather than Sargent. I don't know who is right Wikipedia or this reviewer.

'In 1945 Walton prepared a four-movement adaptation (often mistakenly attributed to Malcolm Sargent) for chorus and orchestra, not including any of the battle music. Walton recorded only two movements from this version. One full-length recording, Carl Davis's 1986 rendition, runs not much more than 13 minutes—but the real value of that album lies in a rarely heard suite from Walton's AS YOU LIKE IT music."



Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 08:57:18 PM
FBK - yes, I think that you are quite right, although of course the Christopher Palmer 'Scenario' features the Globe Prelude. By the way the Olivier recording, which also includes it can be picked up very cheaply from Amazon UK although, of course, you'd have to pay the postage to the USA:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Henry-Scenes-other-music/dp/B001J9T3WM

The title of the first customer review: 'Once more unto the Amazon shopping basket' made me laugh.
I also contributed a review myself and had a nice little exchange with the 'Amazon shopping basket' man in the comments section under his review.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 10, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 10, 2020, 10:11:13 AM
One of the Amazon reviews contends that the Henry V/Sargent suite was in fact made by Walton himself rather than Sargent. I don't know who is right Wikipedia or this reviewer.

'In 1945 Walton prepared a four-movement adaptation (often mistakenly attributed to Malcolm Sargent) for chorus and orchestra, not including any of the battle music. Walton recorded only two movements from this version. One full-length recording, Carl Davis's 1986 rendition, runs not much more than 13 minutes—but the real value of that album lies in a rarely heard suite from Walton's AS YOU LIKE IT music."
Very interesting indeed! Thanks for alerting us to this. And yet Walton conducts the Mathieson Suite on the EMI disc.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 10, 2020, 01:50:43 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 10, 2020, 08:01:52 AM
I thought that the Haitink No.1 was very good and I was happy about it, but David Hurwitz, a critic, thinks otherwise (and he is with the Previn orthodoxy).

Anyone who really likes Haitink 1 is a friend of mine. What a performance! Personally I don't take any of those reviewers' opinions because I often disagree with them, and some are rather capricious in my view.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 10, 2020, 01:54:28 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 09, 2020, 09:31:39 AM
I agree. I don't know the artist but it's a great picture.

The best transfer of the Boult recording of Symphony No.1 is here:
(//)
However, the Somm disc is fine and includes Belshazzar's Feast.

Which must be a Pye original recording. I have the Golden Guinea issue. I wonder why Boult didn't record the symphony later for EMI or Lyrita?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 10, 2020, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Irons on July 10, 2020, 01:54:28 PM
Which must be a Pye original recording. I have the Golden Guinea issue. I wonder why Boult didn't record the symphony later for EMI or Lyrita?
Yes, you are quite right Lol. That's the one with the garish cover. I agree that it was odd that Boult never re-recorded it although there are some live performances available.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 11, 2020, 03:53:23 AM
Great art cover!  I like  it a lot.
I will use the pic for the Boult no. 1 on my iPod.


Quote from: Irons on July 10, 2020, 01:54:28 PM
Which must be a Pye original recording. I have the Golden Guinea issue. I wonder why Boult didn't record the symphony later for EMI or Lyrita?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 11, 2020, 03:58:47 AM
Yes, good point. This indicates that, regardless of true authorship of the "Sargent" arrangement, Walton approved and/or liked the Mathieson material. Any possibility it was Walton's idea, rather than Mathieson's, to remove Prelude- the Globe?  Could Walton possibly have suggested not to include Prelude to Mathieson? I am not very sure if Mathieson suggested the revered composer for removing his Prelude let alone doing so without consultation.


Quote from: vandermolen on July 10, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
And yet Walton conducts the Mathieson Suite on the EMI disc.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 11, 2020, 06:30:00 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 11, 2020, 03:58:47 AM
Yes, good point. This indicates that, regardless of true authorship of the "Sargent" arrangement, Walton approved and/or liked the Mathieson material. Any possibility it was Walton's idea, rather than Mathieson's, to remove Prelude- the Globe?  Could Walton possibly have suggested not to include Prelude to Mathieson? I am not very sure if Mathieson suggested the revered composer for removing his Prelude let alone doing so without consultation.

As written the prelude includes a wordless chorus.  So possibly/probably Mathieson cut it simply to avoid this expensive option for concert hall use.....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2020, 12:13:28 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 11, 2020, 03:53:23 AM
Great art cover!  I like  it a lot.
I will use the pic for the Boult no. 1 on my iPod.
Very psychedelic!
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 11, 2020, 06:30:00 AM
As written the prelude includes a wordless chorus.  So possibly/probably Mathieson cut it simply to avoid this expensive option for concert hall use.....
Yes, that rings true, like Svetlanov recording Miaskovsky's 6th Symphony without the (optional) chorus.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 11, 2020, 12:49:13 PM
That makes sense a lot to me.


Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 11, 2020, 06:30:00 AM
As written the prelude includes a wordless chorus.  So possibly/probably Mathieson cut it simply to avoid this expensive option for concert hall use.....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 11, 2020, 12:50:58 PM
You are right. The illustration is better suited to the No. 2, or rather Scriabin's symphonies.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 11, 2020, 12:13:28 PM
Very psychedelic!
:)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 11, 2020, 12:50:58 PM
You are right. The illustration is better suited to the No. 2, or rather Scriabin's symphonies.
I rather like it and it's very nostalgic to me as my older brother had the LP when I was growing up. I like this cover as well - it's from the first LP I had of Walton's First Symphony, a performance I still rate highly:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 12, 2020, 01:04:34 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 11, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
I rather like it and it's very nostalgic to me as my older brother had the LP when I was growing up. I like this cover as well - it's from the first LP I had of Walton's First Symphony, a performance I still rate highly:


My favourite performance, Jeffrey. Sargent knows when to hold the horses back and when to let them go. The first edition has Sargent with the composer. On the cover reverse there is a reproduction of a scribbled note written by Walton dated 2/11/66 " Dear Malcolm, Thank you, the orchestra and all concerned for a truly magnificent recording of my Symphony, William Walton. "

(https://i.imgur.com/rhc48Mh.jpg)

Reading a Walton discussion on another thread I thought this cover image worth posting. You get a Spitfire and White Cliffs of Dover plus as LP, bigger. 8)

(https://i.imgur.com/l9tPlCk.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2020, 02:10:51 AM
Quote from: Irons on July 12, 2020, 01:04:34 AM
My favourite performance, Jeffrey. Sargent knows when to hold the horses back and when to let them go. The first edition has Sargent with the composer. On the cover reverse there is a reproduction of a scribbled note written by Walton dated 2/11/66 " Dear Malcolm, Thank you, the orchestra and all concerned for a truly magnificent recording of my Symphony, William Walton. "

(https://i.imgur.com/rhc48Mh.jpg)

Reading a Walton discussion on another thread I thought this cover image worth posting. You get a Spitfire and White Cliffs of Dover plus as LP, bigger. 8)

(https://i.imgur.com/l9tPlCk.jpg)
Indeed Lol, although I think that we're in the minority here with our admiration for Sargent's recording. I think that, these days, he is underrated as a conductor. His version of Sibelius's Symphony No.5 with the BBC SO is my favourite recorded performance. I see that the new BBC Music Magazine features a composition by Sargent, something about a windy day, on its cover disc. Yes, a great photo of the Spitifire and appropriate for 80th anniversary of Battle of Britain and funeral of Dame Vera. As I mentioned before one flew over the garden yesterday.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 12, 2020, 07:18:10 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 09, 2020, 11:38:07 PM
Great stuff RS! I don't have a Blu-Ray player but I have the DVD which allows you to programme either soundtrack. It must be quite unique from that point of view. Today is 80th Anniversary of the start of the Battle of Britain (I've just been watching a news item about how a 13 year old girl helped her dad work out how the Spitfire could accommodate eight rather than four machine guns in its wings) so, perfect timing for your purchase. I think that the film has improved with age and works surprisingly well on TV. I must watch the closing credits again as I thought it ended with an empty sky. I've seen it suggested, possibly here, that Malcolm Arnold may have had a hand in composing 'Battle in the Air' instead of just conducting it but I've no idea if that is true:
(//)

You are quite right regarding the ending!  Don't know why I superimposed a single Spitfire on the empty sky!  What there is is a simple scrolling list of all the number of pilots (on both sides) who fought and lost their lives in the Battle of Britain.  Rather frustratingly - this Blu-Ray which looks superb does NOT offer the complete Walton score as an alternative which was my main reason for purchasing it.......
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 12, 2020, 02:12:53 PM
That's a rather unique picture. It seems to me the Sargent 1 (and the Litton 1) is for veteran listeners. The performance is centered on elegance and balance whereas the Boult 1 is dynamic and macho.
Btw, a fine live performance of Partita by Slatkin/Detroit here.

https://youtu.be/Ex_NqRpoPxg




Quote from: vandermolen on July 11, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
I rather like it and it's very nostalgic to me as my older brother had the LP when I was growing up. I like this cover as well - it's from the first LP I had of Walton's First Symphony, a performance I still rate highly:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2020, 09:12:28 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 12, 2020, 07:18:10 AM
You are quite right regarding the ending!  Don't know why I superimposed a single Spitfire on the empty sky!  What there is is a simple scrolling list of all the number of pilots (on both sides) who fought and lost their lives in the Battle of Britain.  Rather frustratingly - this Blu-Ray which looks superb does NOT offer the complete Walton score as an alternative which was my main reason for purchasing it.......
How annoying as my DVD allows you to programme either.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 13, 2020, 09:44:06 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 11, 2020, 10:55:18 PM
I rather like it and it's very nostalgic to me as my older brother had the LP when I was growing up. I like this cover as well - it's from the first LP I had of Walton's First Symphony, a performance I still rate highly:
(//)

Yes - this was the version of this recording I had too - that sleeve image is so familiar!  It was my "first" version as well and I must have listened to it literally (yes literally) hundreds of times.  So much so that when around 1:35 in the 1st movement someone drops a bow or some-such, when I hear other performances afterwards it still sounds as if something is 'missing'!

I've said it before - I'm not the biggest fan of this performance - that 1st movement is just a tad too 'comfortable' for me - but It's still one I have a great fondness for simply because it was my introduction to this extraordinary work.........
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2020, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 13, 2020, 09:44:06 AM
Yes - this was the version of this recording I had too - that sleeve image is so familiar!  It was my "first" version as well and I must have listened to it literally (yes literally) hundreds of times.  So much so that when around 1:35 in the 1st movement someone drops a bow or some-such, when I hear other performances afterwards it still sounds as if something is 'missing'!

I've said it before - I'm not the biggest fan of this performance - that 1st movement is just a tad too 'comfortable' for me - but It's still one I have a great fondness for simply because it was my introduction to this extraordinary work.........

It also features my favourite oboe theme at the start with just the right amount of sadness, urgency, fragility and nervous tension - I think that the older recording might add to this.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: relm1 on July 14, 2020, 06:04:47 AM
Andre Previn/LSO is my favorite version of No. 1.  Dark and powerful first movement, pungent second, incredibly moving third movement, rapturous finale.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on July 14, 2020, 06:34:25 AM
Quote from: relm1 on July 14, 2020, 06:04:47 AM
Andre Previn/LSO is my favorite version of No. 1.  Dark and powerful first movement, pungent second, incredibly moving third movement, rapturous finale.

+1 - if you mean the RCA recording, better than his remake for EMI. The only other version I have is Rattle/CBSO which failed to grip me in the same way Previn did, can't remember why.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 06:55:51 AM
Quote from: relm1 on July 14, 2020, 06:04:47 AM
Andre Previn/LSO is my favorite version of No. 1.  Dark and powerful first movement, pungent second, incredibly moving third movement, rapturous finale.
One of the few things we disagree on but I must give it another listen to.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 07:22:07 AM
My vote for the Boult and the Thomson(Chandos) recordings!  :) :) :)

Quote from: relm1 on July 14, 2020, 06:04:47 AM
Andre Previn/LSO is my favorite version of No. 1.  Dark and powerful first movement, pungent second, incredibly moving third movement, rapturous finale.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 14, 2020, 07:26:25 AM
Quote from: Biffo on July 14, 2020, 06:34:25 AM
+1 - if you mean the RCA recording, better than his remake for EMI. The only other version I have is Rattle/CBSO which failed to grip me in the same way Previn did, can't remember why.

Telarc/RPO not EMI - he only recorded Symphony 2 with the LSO for EMI
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 07:54:21 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 07:22:07 AM
My vote for the Boult and the Thomson(Chandos) recordings!  :) :) :)
Mine are Boult, Thomson, Mackerras, Haitink, Harty.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 07:57:16 AM
Agree. I am afraid, I must check the Harty 1. Never heard of it.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 07:54:21 AM
Mine are Boult, Thomson, Mackerras, Haitink, Harty.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 07:57:16 AM
Agree. I am afraid, I must check the Harty 1. Never heard of it.
I forgot Sargent  :o
You have to hear the Harty DBK. It's very old but riveting. He conducted the first performance. CD/LP covers below:

(//)

And here it is! Recorded in a warehouse in 1935:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJbFXTt_zMI
The sound quality was better on the CD and LP than it is here but you get some idea of the electrifying performance.
The climax of the first movement from about 9:30 gives you some idea of what it is like.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 08:34:38 AM
😍😍😍

I will check it!


P.s. The London cover looks soooo cool and hip.


Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
I forgot Sargent  :o
You have to hear the Harty DBK. It's very old but riveting. He conducted the first performance. CD/LP covers below:

(//)

And here it is! Recorded in a warehouse in 1935:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJbFXTt_zMI
The sound quality was better on the CD and LP than it is here but you get some idea of the electrifying performance.
The climax of the first movement from about 9:30 gives you some idea of what it is like.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 08:34:38 AM
😍😍😍

I will check it!


P.s. The London cover looks soooo cool and hip.
:) :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 12:29:38 PM
I think the Karabits set is very good too and it is somehow underrated.

Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 07:54:21 AM
Mine are Boult, Thomson, Mackerras, Haitink, Harty.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 12:40:05 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 12:29:38 PM
I think the Karabits set is very good too and it is somehow underrated.
Yes, that's quite true and Brabbins as well I think.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 12:45:35 PM
Here are two more recordings with lesser-known orchestras which I also thought highly of:
[/img]

I see that I did an Amazon review for the Karabits recording:

This CD includes the best performance of Symphony No.2 that I have heard. Symphony 2 lives rather in the shadow of Symphony 1, one of the greatest British symphonies ever composed. Here, however, the Second Symphony is performed with an urgency and rhythmic tension which sets it apart, in my opinion, from any other performance. The spectacular recording adds to the impact of the work. One jazzy section reminded me of Bernstein's Symphonic Dances from 'West Side Story' - altogether a marvellous performance and recording and all credit to Kirill Karabits and the excellent Bournemoth SO. I can't imagine that anyone would be disappointed by the performance of Symphony 1 either. The important oboe solo at the start conveys the nervous tension which is missing from many other performances, including the much lauded Previn LSO version. I actually prefer the contemporaneous recording from Malcolm Sargent and the Philharmonia Orchestra. Karabits's new version is powerful and urgent. The final chords are spaced out just right and the cumulative tension of the opening movement culminates in an appropriate sense of catharsis at the inexorable climax. Other great versions of Symphony 1 come from Bryden Thomson, Boult (Studio recording) and Mackerras.
Altogether a fine new release.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 01:12:39 PM
Thank you, Jeffrey. The two albums look VERY interesting! I will check these albums soon. Also, I need more time for the No. 2.
Any possibility you may rank the Karabits no. 1 with, or higher than, the Sargent and Mackerras recordings?

Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 12:45:35 PM
Here are two more recordings with lesser-known orchestras which I also thought highly of:
[/img]

I see that I did an Amazon review for the Karabits recording:

This CD includes the best performance of Symphony No.2 that I have heard. Symphony 2 lives rather in the shadow of Symphony 1, one of the greatest British symphonies ever composed. Here, however, the Second Symphony is performed with an urgency and rhythmic tension which sets it apart, in my opinion, from any other performance. The spectacular recording adds to the impact of the work. One jazzy section reminded me of Bernstein's Symphonic Dances from 'West Side Story' - altogether a marvellous performance and recording and all credit to Kirill Karabits and the excellent Bournemoth SO. I can't imagine that anyone would be disappointed by the performance of Symphony 1 either. The important oboe solo at the start conveys the nervous tension which is missing from many other performances, including the much lauded Previn LSO version. I actually prefer the contemporaneous recording from Malcolm Sargent and the Philharmonia Orchestra. Karabits's new version is powerful and urgent. The final chords are spaced out just right and the cumulative tension of the opening movement culminates in an appropriate sense of catharsis at the inexorable climax. Other great versions of Symphony 1 come from Bryden Thomson, Boult (Studio recording) and Mackerras.
Altogether a fine new release.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 14, 2020, 01:12:39 PM
Thank you, Jeffrey. The two albums look VERY interesting! I will check these albums soon. Also, I need more time for the No. 2.
Any possibility you may rank the Karabits no. 1 with, or higher than, the Sargent and Mackerras recordings?
I need to listen to it again DBK, which I'll try to do later today. Of course it benefits from a more modern recording.
The version with the New Haven SO is well worth exploring (posted above) as is, perhaps surprisingly, the version performed by Symphony Orchestra of Grand Canary. I thought that it didn't start off very promisingly but gained cumulative power until, by the end, I was totally gripped by it. I think that the last movement is one of the most impressive versions I have heard.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 14, 2020, 11:50:41 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 10:39:51 PM
I need to listen to it again DBK, which I'll try to do later today. Of course it benefits from a more modern recording.
The version with the New Haven SO is well worth exploring (posted above) as is, perhaps surprisingly, the version performed by Symphony Orchestra of Grand Canary. I thought that it didn't start off very promisingly but gained cumulative power until, by the end, I was totally gripped by it. I think that the last movement is one of the most impressive versions I have heard.

Interestingly the same Grand Canary orchestra turn in a very respectable - but all but unknown - version of the the VERY hard Korngold Symphony.  Perhaps not top top of the pile but well worth a listen

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51KBGjy6UzL._AC_PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on July 15, 2020, 01:16:12 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 14, 2020, 07:26:25 AM
Telarc/RPO not EMI - he only recorded Symphony 2 with the LSO for EMI

Thanks for the info. I was sure Previn's second recording of No 1 was with the RPO but when I searched Amazon and Google I couldn't find it. Probably because I was looking for an EMI recording that didn't exist or I wasn't being careful enough with what I did find (No 2).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 03:06:24 AM
Quote from: Biffo on July 15, 2020, 01:16:12 AM
Thanks for the info. I was sure Previn's second recording of No 1 was with the RPO but when I searched Amazon and Google I couldn't find it. Probably because I was looking for an EMI recording that didn't exist or I wasn't being careful enough with what I did find (No 2).
I typed in 'Amazon Walton Telarc' and this came up:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Symphony-Sceptre-Crown-Imperial/dp/B00000E8O1
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 03:10:01 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 14, 2020, 11:50:41 PM
Interestingly the same Grand Canary orchestra turn in a very respectable - but all but unknown - version of the the VERY hard Korngold Symphony.  Perhaps not top top of the pile but well worth a listen

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51KBGjy6UzL._AC_PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)

How very interesting! I shall look out for that as I like the work so much that I'm always interested to hear different interpretations. I've also been impressed generally by performances conducted by Adrian Leaper, who conducted Walton's First Symphony with them.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on July 15, 2020, 03:15:37 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 03:06:24 AM
I typed in 'Amazon Walton Telarc' and this came up:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Symphony-Sceptre-Crown-Imperial/dp/B00000E8O1

Yes, but I didn't know it was a Telarc disc I was looking for but thanks all the same. I will stick with Previn/LSO. Walton is not a core composer for me and I am happy with the modest collection I have already.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 03:17:36 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 14, 2020, 11:50:41 PM
Interestingly the same Grand Canary orchestra turn in a very respectable - but all but unknown - version of the the VERY hard Korngold Symphony.  Perhaps not top top of the pile but well worth a listen

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51KBGjy6UzL._AC_PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)
OT

It's very well reviewed at the end of this comparative survey. Just above the chart. There is a hard copy CD now but it is full price:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/June11/Korngold_Lace.htm
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 15, 2020, 04:10:58 AM
I listened the (premier) recording 4times so far. The performance is phenomenal, penetrating and dynamic. All the movements were greatly done and remarkably animated- especially the final movement is astonishing (personally, my favorite interpretation ever). This is the the LSO in the 30s- I can't believe! I am in awe. They are impeccable- they ascend and fly like an eagle. Were the performance recorded in today's recording, it would have been one of the most vigorous and most remarkable recordings (or just "the" most remarkable recording). I will keep listening to this recording. Thank you for the recommendation.

(Is the Boult rendition/approach a little similar to the Harty/LSO ?)



Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
I forgot Sargent  :o
You have to hear the Harty DBK. It's very old but riveting. He conducted the first performance. CD/LP covers below:

(//)

And here it is! Recorded in a warehouse in 1935:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJbFXTt_zMI
The sound quality was better on the CD and LP than it is here but you get some idea of the electrifying performance.
The climax of the first movement from about 9:30 gives you some idea of what it is like.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 04:54:41 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 15, 2020, 04:10:58 AM
I listened the (premier) recording 4times so far. The performance is phenomenal, penetrating and dynamic. All the movements were greatly done and remarkably animated- especially the final movement is astonishing (personally, my favorite interpretation ever). This is the the LSO in the 30s- I can't believe! I am in awe. They are impeccable- they ascend and fly like an eagle. Were the performance recorded in today's recording, it would have been one of the most vigorous and most remarkable recordings (or just "the" most remarkable recording). I will keep listening to this recording. Thank you for the recommendation.

(Is the Boult rendition/approach a little similar to the Harty/LSO ?)

So glad you enjoyed the Harty DBK!  :) It really is quite something. The sound quality is better on the CD and LP release.

The Boult is not so 'edge-of-your-seat' as the Harty but still a very fine performance.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 15, 2020, 05:00:18 AM
Jeffrey, thank you for your consideration on the Karabits set. Take your time please.

Roasted Swan, I agree and I think the Sinfonia Gran Canaria is a fine orchestra. (Almost) all of their ASV/Alto recordings are very good. My fav are below. They are conducted by A. Leaper.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 15, 2020, 05:01:40 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 04:54:41 AM

The Boult is not so 'edge-of-your-seat' as the Harty but still a very fine performance.

Agree.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 15, 2020, 05:07:09 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
I forgot Sargent  :o
You have to hear the Harty DBK. It's very old but riveting. He conducted the first performance. CD/LP covers below:

(//)

And here it is! Recorded in a warehouse in 1935:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJbFXTt_zMI
The sound quality was better on the CD and LP than it is here but you get some idea of the electrifying performance.
The climax of the first movement from about 9:30 gives you some idea of what it is like.

Following that YouTube link (very good too!) provided another performance -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q

Carlos Kalmar with the Spanish RSO - very committed exciting performance - well worth a watch!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 06:56:31 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 15, 2020, 05:07:09 AM
Following that YouTube link (very good too!) provided another performance -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q

Carlos Kalmar with the Spanish RSO - very committed exciting performance - well worth a watch!

What a fine performance and great to see it being performed. Pity that there weren't more people there. Nice to see Walton being performed so well in Spain.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 16, 2020, 12:47:18 AM
Just listened to this (1st Symphony) - an excellent modern performance with a great sense or urgency and tension. I especially liked the spacing out of the final chords. You get 'Siesta' thrown in as a nice interlude between the symphonies. Great cover art completes a very attractive disc. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with this release:

PS I just listened to the version conducted by Kiriil Karabits - this is also a strong version, although I think I could hear some humming from Maestro Karabits during the performance. On balance I prefer the Brabbins which also includes an additional work. Karabits is, however, better in Symphony No.2 I think. Both CDs are v enjoyable.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 16, 2020, 03:50:42 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 10:39:51 PM
I thought that it didn't start off very promisingly but gained cumulative power until, by the end, I was totally gripped by it. I think that the last movement is one of the most impressive versions I have heard.

The description is SO intriguing that I ordered both the discs. Thank you for the reviews on the Brabbins and Karabits. While I am still waiting for the Brabbins set I ordered, I thought that the Karabits 1 was vibrant and exceptional performance comparable to the Boult 1.

I read a historical explanation of the Symphony 1 on Wikipedia. It says that after the Harty's premier recording (1935), the Philharmonia set conducted by Walton (1953) was the second recording followed by the Boult's third (1958), the Previn's fourth (1967) and the Sargent's fifth (same year, 1967) recordings. I wonder why there was a near-decade gap between the Boult and the Previn. After the Previn/Sargent, there was a decade vacuum again. On the list, I still don't know the recordings of Handley (2 recordings), Gibson and Slatkin. I am sure the list is missing several minor recordings, including those I just ordered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._1_(Walton)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 16, 2020, 03:58:03 AM
Solid performance!

Roasted Swan, the Henry V/Judd arrived yesterday. While the Henry V suite is great, the violin concerto is colorful and successfully expressive. Plus, the Spitfire and the Capriccio, my favorite compositions, fire and swing. I don't know how the orchestra was found/chosen, but it is great. The recording sound is superb too. This is a great disc. It's ridiculous (almost) nobody talks about this recording.


Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 15, 2020, 05:07:09 AM
Following that YouTube link (very good too!) provided another performance -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q

Carlos Kalmar with the Spanish RSO - very committed exciting performance - well worth a watch!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: relm1 on July 16, 2020, 06:05:16 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 06:55:51 AM
One of the few things we disagree on but I must give it another listen to.

Yes, please give another listen and tell me if you still disagree.  Has the slow movement ever been better?  By the way, I'm talking about the one from 60's, I think they rerecorded it in the 80's and I don't like that one as much.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 16, 2020, 07:08:03 AM
Quote from: relm1 on July 16, 2020, 06:05:16 AM
Yes, please give another listen and tell me if you still disagree.  Has the slow movement ever been better?  By the way, I'm talking about the one from 60's, I think they rerecorded it in the 80's and I don't like that one as much.
Will do. Yes, I know the classic performance is with the LSO and the later one, which I prefer, is with the RPO. I have CDs of them both. To be honest I never liked the Previn LSO version from the time of its LP release but I'm happy to listen to it again. It's certainly a fine performance but I preferred other versions.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 16, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
Quote from: relm1 on July 16, 2020, 06:05:16 AM
Yes, please give another listen and tell me if you still disagree.  Has the slow movement ever been better?  By the way, I'm talking about the one from 60's, I think they rerecorded it in the 80's and I don't like that one as much.

Honestly, I think the slow movement is the weakest movement from the symphony.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 16, 2020, 10:11:25 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 16, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
Honestly, I think the slow movement is the weakest movement from the symphony.
Interesting John. Much as I love that symphony I don't think that any of the other movements are as good as the first movement which is, to me, like a symphony in itself. Often there are comments that the last movement, composed after a gap, is not as good as the other movements but I disagree and think that it's a great conclusion to the work. Actually I find the slow movement of Symphony No.2 more affecting than the slow movement of the First Symphony, certainly it is my favourite movement of Symphony No.2. Still, Symphony No.1 remains one of my favourite symphonies of all time.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 17, 2020, 04:05:14 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 16, 2020, 03:50:42 AM
The description is SO intriguing that I ordered both the discs. Thank you for the reviews on the Brabbins and Karabits. While I am still waiting for the Brabbins set I ordered, I thought that the Karabits 1 was vibrant and exceptional performance comparable to the Boult 1.

I read a historical explanation of the Symphony 1 on Wikipedia. It says that after the Harty's premier recording (1935), the Philharmonia set conducted by Walton (1953) was the second recording followed by the Boult's third (1958), the Previn's fourth (1967) and the Sargent's fifth (same year, 1967) recordings. I wonder why there was a near-decade gap between the Boult and the Previn. After the Previn/Sargent, there was a decade vacuum again. On the list, I still don't know the recordings of Handley (2 recordings), Gibson and Slatkin. I am sure the list is missing several minor recordings, including those I just ordered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._1_(Walton)

Brett - that list looks pretty complete to me.  Handley/RLPO I don't know but remember it not having great critical reception.  Handley/Bournemouth is very good and is coupled with an excellent Hindemith Variations which is one of my favourite of the 'later' works.  Gibson is OK but not in the same league as his Sibelius.  Slatkin was a relative disappointment as I recall but haven't relistened to it in years so I might well be wrong!  Of the less often commented on recordings I like Paul Daniel with the Orchestra of Opera North - not the tidiest of versions but powerful.  Not fussed by the recent Gardener who I think is helped by great recording and playing but no real personality in the interpretation.  The Boult/BBC Music Mag version is worth hearing for sure but again not the tidiest playing or best recording.  The Ashkenazy is surprisingly good given that technically Ashkenazy was a bit of a liability as a conductor and these works do need 'proper' conducting.  The only real duffer of a performance is Arwel-Hughes on BIS in Lille.  Not that well recorded (a big surprise for BIS) and the playing is lacklustre and rather wan.

I'd agree with Vandermolen that the 1st movement is one of the great 20th Century Symphonic movements - such inexorable energy - a kind of Sibelius with greater rhythmic drive.

Glad you liked the Judd/Florida disc.  Judd is a very underated conductor - a shame he never has had a major appointment with a British orchestra.  His recordings are consistently fine and he certainly gets the best out of his Florida players.  Liken Rosand is an old-school player; bags of personality - sometimes you love what he does sometimes it can seem wayward.  Not super-solid technique (but still very good) but I'd trade the occasional tiny flaw for his insights.  Check out his out concerti on Vox if you are curious!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 17, 2020, 04:51:35 AM
Totally agree with the characteristically insightful comments from Roasted Swan. I'd forgotten about the Ashkenazy disc but you are right it's excellent. In fact when I bought new stereo speakers a few years ago it was the first CD that I played with great pleasure. I think that there is a recording of Ashkenazy conducted the 2nd Symphony in Moscow. I agree with the comments about the Handley, Slatkin and Daniel recordings. A pity about the Lille recording although it gets my vote for the best cover image:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 17, 2020, 05:08:51 AM
Great insights, Jeffrey, John and Roasted Swan. Thanks a lot!
Not a big fan of Ashkenazy's piano or conducting, but I will check his No.1.
As for Gardner/BBC, I like his Viola C/Partita.
Btw, the below is an Amazon (the U.S.A.) customer review of the Leaper Symphony 1. Funny and interesting.

This is my favourite recording of this work, unlike other recordings the music
has some room to breathe. This is very apparent in the opening measures, where
we are gradually introduced to the music - unlike other recordings where we are
thrown right in at the deep end. In short, this is a very measured performance that
will be of great help in enjoying the work as a whole.

The first recording by Andre Previn is widely considered to be the benchmark
performance of this work. Certainly it starts off as it means to continue, the music
is very much to the fore but the overall effect is a little chaotic. Very satisfying to
listen to, perhaps the neighbours will bang on the walls, dogs may howl, and at the
end it will be hard to remember exactly what just happened.

The second movement, marked 'Presto, con malizia', was apparently inspired
by a failed romance and was originally meant to be the first movement but was eventually reworked as the second movement. Previn's first recording is thought to have gotten the best out of this music but eventually he (as well as Sir Adrian Boult) found it too much to perform on a regular basis. Even so, he did eventually make a second recording of this work, apparently somewhat subdued from his first recording.

[Re the second movement, Walton's biographer Michael Kennedy: "Most surprisingly,
the 'Presto, con malizia' is bitingly savage and vicious. I say surprisingly because
Boult was asked to repeat the symphony at the Proms in 1976 but refused (to Walton's
annoyance) because, as he told a friend, 'somehow I couldn't face all that malice a
second time and said so'."]

There is also a wonderfully crunchy recording by Bernard Haitink which is also
very fine. As with the Previn recording, it will be very apparent within the first few
bars as to what exactly the listener is in for. Lots of brassy horns and kettle drums.
Once again, the music is very much to the fore but the overall effect is cacaphonous.

So, to conclude, this is a recording that may appeal to listeners who are not
purely interested in testing their speakers - it is a balanced effort that enables all
parts of the music to be listened to and will not rattle the walls. Or at least not as
much as the recordings listed. Even so, it still features a broad range of tones and
will surely prove satifying to most listeners. However, in order to judge which (if any)
of these recordings is to individual taste, it is merely necessary to listen to the first
few minutes of any of these recordings, as they all establish their merits (or otherwise)
at the outset.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 17, 2020, 05:53:23 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 17, 2020, 05:08:51 AM
Great insights, Jeffrey, John and Roasted Swan. Thanks a lot!
Not a big fan of Ashkenazy's piano or conducting, but I will check his No.1.
As for Gardner/BBC, I like his Viola C/Partita.
Btw, the below is an Amazon (the U.S.A.) customer review of the Leaper Symphony 1. Funny and interesting.

This is my favourite recording of this work, unlike other recordings the music
has some room to breathe. This is very apparent in the opening measures, where
we are gradually introduced to the music - unlike other recordings where we are
thrown right in at the deep end. In short, this is a very measured performance that
will be of great help in enjoying the work as a whole.

The first recording by Andre Previn is widely considered to be the benchmark
performance of this work. Certainly it starts off as it means to continue, the music
is very much to the fore but the overall effect is a little chaotic. Very satisfying to
listen to, perhaps the neighbours will bang on the walls, dogs may howl, and at the
end it will be hard to remember exactly what just happened.

The second movement, marked 'Presto, con malizia', was apparently inspired
by a failed romance and was originally meant to be the first movement but was eventually reworked as the second movement. Previn's first recording is thought to have gotten the best out of this music but eventually he (as well as Sir Adrian Boult) found it too much to perform on a regular basis. Even so, he did eventually make a second recording of this work, apparently somewhat subdued from his first recording.

[Re the second movement, Walton's biographer Michael Kennedy: "Most surprisingly,
the 'Presto, con malizia' is bitingly savage and vicious. I say surprisingly because
Boult was asked to repeat the symphony at the Proms in 1976 but refused (to Walton's
annoyance) because, as he told a friend, 'somehow I couldn't face all that malice a
second time and said so'."]

There is also a wonderfully crunchy recording by Bernard Haitink which is also
very fine. As with the Previn recording, it will be very apparent within the first few
bars as to what exactly the listener is in for. Lots of brassy horns and kettle drums.
Once again, the music is very much to the fore but the overall effect is cacaphonous.

So, to conclude, this is a recording that may appeal to listeners who are not
purely interested in testing their speakers - it is a balanced effort that enables all
parts of the music to be listened to and will not rattle the walls. Or at least not as
much as the recordings listed. Even so, it still features a broad range of tones and
will surely prove satifying to most listeners. However, in order to judge which (if any)
of these recordings is to individual taste, it is merely necessary to listen to the first
few minutes of any of these recordings, as they all establish their merits (or otherwise)
at the outset.
Very interesting and entertaining DBK. Thank you for posting it. I liked the reference to Haitink's recording as 'crunchy' - I must start using that description! He or She is right about Leaper as well. I've just been listening to the same orchestra turning in a very exciting performance of Korngold's great Symphony (see WAYLT thread). That performance definitely gains in cumulative power and I remember it as a very rewarding listening experience. Also, thanks for clearing up why Boult didn't perform the work more often.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 17, 2020, 06:04:30 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 17, 2020, 05:53:23 AM
Very interesting and entertaining DBK. Thank you for posting it. I liked the reference to Haitink's recording as 'crunchy' - I must start using that description! He or She is right about Leaper as well. I've just been listening to the same orchestra turning in a very exciting performance of Korngold's great Symphony (see WAYLT thread). That performance definitely gains in cumulative power and I remember it as a very rewarding listening experience. Also, thanks for clearing up why Boult didn't perform the work more often.

I don't understand why many/several people say cynical things about the 2nd mvt. I like it, and the finale, a lot.

P.s. I like the cover art of Leaper 1, as well as other ArteNova discs.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 17, 2020, 08:57:53 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 17, 2020, 06:04:30 AM
I don't understand why many/several people say cynical things about the 2nd mvt. I like it, and the finale, a lot.

P.s. I like the cover art of Leaper 1, as well as other ArteNova discs.

Just to throw a "what might be" into the mix.  A good 25+ years ago I used to do a lot of Musical Theatre tours etc in the UK.  The musical director for several was Martin Yates who of course has gone onto do many very fine recordings for Dutton etc of Arnell/RVW/Bax/Moeran etc etc.  Back then Yates, who had Previn as one of his conducting teachers, was talking about how he'd love to record Walton 1.....  My guess is he'd do a terrific job of it - his style is perfectly suited to the jagged/highly rhythmic/nervous-aggressive Waltonian world
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 17, 2020, 09:01:14 AM
I will look for recordings by Judd, as well as Rosand. Everything Paul Daniel/English Northern does is effective and successful.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 17, 2020, 04:05:14 AM
Brett - that list looks pretty complete to me.  Handley/RLPO I don't know but remember it not having great critical reception.  Handley/Bournemouth is very good and is coupled with an excellent Hindemith Variations which is one of my favourite of the 'later' works.  Gibson is OK but not in the same league as his Sibelius.  Slatkin was a relative disappointment as I recall but haven't relistened to it in years so I might well be wrong!  Of the less often commented on recordings I like Paul Daniel with the Orchestra of Opera North - not the tidiest of versions but powerful.  Not fussed by the recent Gardener who I think is helped by great recording and playing but no real personality in the interpretation.  The Boult/BBC Music Mag version is worth hearing for sure but again not the tidiest playing or best recording.  The Ashkenazy is surprisingly good given that technically Ashkenazy was a bit of a liability as a conductor and these works do need 'proper' conducting.  The only real duffer of a performance is Arwel-Hughes on BIS in Lille.  Not that well recorded (a big surprise for BIS) and the playing is lacklustre and rather wan.

I'd agree with Vandermolen that the 1st movement is one of the great 20th Century Symphonic movements - such inexorable energy - a kind of Sibelius with greater rhythmic drive.

Glad you liked the Judd/Florida disc.  Judd is a very underated conductor - a shame he never has had a major appointment with a British orchestra.  His recordings are consistently fine and he certainly gets the best out of his Florida players.  Liken Rosand is an old-school player; bags of personality - sometimes you love what he does sometimes it can seem wayward.  Not super-solid technique (but still very good) but I'd trade the occasional tiny flaw for his insights.  Check out his out concerti on Vox if you are curious!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 17, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 16, 2020, 10:11:25 PM
Interesting John. Much as I love that symphony I don't think that any of the other movements are as good as the first movement which is, to me, like a symphony in itself. Often there are comments that the last movement, composed after a gap, is not as good as the other movements but I disagree and think that it's a great conclusion to the work. Actually I find the slow movement of Symphony No.2 more affecting than the slow movement of the First Symphony, certainly it is my favourite movement of Symphony No.2. Still, Symphony No.1 remains one of my favourite symphonies of all time.

I haven't spent a whole lot of time with the 2nd symphony, Jeffrey, so I don't really have anything to add other than I should get to know it better. I guess one reason why I feel the slow movement is weak in the 1st stems from what I believe could've been something emotionally earth-shattering, but it's almost like like Walton coped out and went for something that was in a way 'anti-climatic'. What would you say? Anyway, I just feel this movement meanders too much and simply doesn't deliver 'the goods' so to speak.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 17, 2020, 12:47:57 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 17, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
I haven't spent a whole lot of time with the 2nd symphony, Jeffrey, so I don't really have anything to add other than I should get to know it better. I guess one reason why I feel the slow movement is weak in the 1st stems from what I believe could've been something emotionally earth-shattering, but it's almost like like Walton coped out and went for something that was in a way 'anti-climatic'. What would you say? Anyway, I just feel this movement meanders too much and simply doesn't deliver 'the goods' so to speak.
I rather agree with you John. Apparently Walton originally intended it or part of it as the opening movement. I think that it works within the Symphony but I don't find it as moving as the slow movement of the Second Symphony.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 17, 2020, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 17, 2020, 12:47:57 PM
I rather agree with you John. Apparently Walton originally intended it or part of it as the opening movement. I think that it works within the Symphony but I don't find it as moving as the slow movement of the Second Symphony.

8) I will say that I'm agreement with you that Walton's 1st is one of the great 20th Century symphonies and certainly one of the finest British symphonies ever written.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2020, 07:29:24 AM
Trawling around YouTube (which is a remarkable resource for uploaded rare performances isn't it!) here is a live Previn/LSO Walton 1 from the 1970 Proms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr3WVje-C3o

The sound is fairly scrawny but this must be the most aggressive/brutal Walton 1.  Some rough edges to the playing but goodness me it blazes - in the hall it must have been simply overwhelming.......
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2020, 07:45:08 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2020, 07:29:24 AM
Trawling around YouTube (which is a remarkable resource for uploaded rare performances isn't it!) here is a live Previn/LSO Walton 1 from the 1970 Proms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr3WVje-C3o

The sound is fairly scrawny but this must be the most aggressive/brutal Walton 1.  Some rough edges to the playing but goodness me it blazes - in the hall it must have been simply overwhelming.......
Sounds, from the first few minutes, like a fine performance and yet, at the start, that oboe passage is just as 'matter-of-fact' as in his famous recording. The fragility and vulnerability there is far better realised IMO by Boult, Sargent, Thomson, Harty and Brabbins in their recordings.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 19, 2020, 08:34:06 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 19, 2020, 07:45:08 AM
Sounds, from the first few minutes, like a fine performance and yet, at the start, that oboe passage is just as 'matter-of-fact' as in his famous recording. The fragility and vulnerability there is far better realised IMO by Boult, Sargent, Thomson, Harty and Brabbins in their recordings.

Do you mean sort of being ominous, prophetic, and/or ghostly? I will check the performance later. I am listening to the Judd disc every day and I love it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 19, 2020, 08:34:06 AM
Do you mean sort of being ominous, prophetic, and/or ghostly? I will check the performance later. I am listening to the Judd disc every day and I love it.

I suppose we all create a kind of personal narrative for a piece of music that helps articulate the 'meaning' we find in it.  Personally I do not conceive of the opening oboe theme as fragile.  Instead I think the whole movement as one enormous arc of driven certainty starting from quiet determination through to final exultant resolution.  There are obstacles and hindrances along the way but the ultimate goal in somehow never in doubt.  But the joy of any great piece is that it will respond to a variety of interpretations. 

Here's another(!) very fine YouTube live performance - this time in Gothenburg.  The recording here is very good indeed at revealing the inner complexities of Walton's astonishing contrapuntal writing.  Just a couple of moments when I think the conductor lets the emotional leash relax when it should get ever tighter.  That for me is the key - the sense of something racheting up from first bar to last........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWMV-fMZqT0

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2020, 08:56:11 AMHere's another(!) very fine YouTube live performance - this time in Gothenburg.  The recording here is very good indeed at revealing the inner complexities of Walton's astonishing contrapuntal writing.  Just a couple of moments when I think the conductor lets the emotional leash relax when it should get ever tighter.  That for me is the key - the sense of something racheting up from first bar to last........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWMV-fMZqT0

The first comment on this YouTube video are interesting:

Easily goes into my Top 3 of the greatest symphonies ever composed. The closing seconds of the 1st movement are mind-blowing. The 2nd movement so 'malicious', the third a profound meditation on loss, the 4th a triumphant surge of renewed faith in life and love.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
I'm going to have to revisit that Previn/LSO performance again. I do think it's an outstanding performance despite Jeffrey's own reservations about it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 12:02:11 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 11:32:13 AM
The 1st:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODUwNzg3MC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NDA5MTA5OTF9)

(https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/f4867e0/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1447x2048+0+0/resize/840x1189!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fa3%2F7e%2F21e88c1fd6806bb8a1c51f21dd06%2Fla-1551822927-ws12ogwm9r-snap-image)

Such a scintillating performance. This newer Japan remaster sounds superb.

I have to say in this particular Previn/LSO performance that I feel the 'weak' slow movement is handled with passion and there's a real sense of resignation about this music that I didn't quite hear before. I'm appreciating this movement more right now than I ever have in the past. Also, the last movement doesn't feel 'tacked on' at all. It feels like a completely natural conclusion to what is a turbulent work, but this movement allows us to hear the joy and exuberance in Walton again. Anyway, the 1st is a masterpiece warts and all. I adore it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 12:18:33 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 12:12:45 PM
Violin Concerto

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyMzg1Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NjQ3OTM5MDB9)

This is my first time listening to this Little/Litton performance of the VC. Sounds promising so far. I've always appreciated Little's musicianship, especially in British music. Again, I don't understand Jeffrey's opinion of this concerto. I think it's bloody marvelous!

Here's another Walton work that I just love. The thing about all of Walton's concerti is their unusual structuring, although I remember the Viola Concerto have a more traditional formal scheme. I'd say the only concerto I have trouble with is the Cello Concerto, but even now, I'm beginning to understand more than I have in the past. It's kind of a gnarly sounding work.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 20, 2020, 03:54:40 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 12:18:33 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Here's another Walton work that I just love. The thing about all of Walton's concerti is their unusual structuring, although I remember the Viola Concerto have a more traditional formal scheme. I'd say the only concerto I have trouble with is the Cello Concerto, but even now, I'm beginning to understand more than I have in the past. It's kind of a gnarly sounding work.

Good set with elegant performances. Thank you for the recommendation.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 20, 2020, 03:56:42 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 19, 2020, 07:45:08 AM
Sounds, from the first few minutes, like a fine performance and yet, at the start, that oboe passage is just as 'matter-of-fact' as in his famous recording. The fragility and vulnerability there is far better realised IMO by Boult, Sargent, Thomson, Harty and Brabbins in their recordings.

It seems to me that the rhythmic foundation of Thomson's rendition is fabulous and consistent.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 20, 2020, 07:41:27 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
I'm going to have to revisit that Previn/LSO performance again. I do think it's an outstanding performance despite Jeffrey's own reservations about it.

Jeffrey doesn't need me me in his corner but I do agree up to a point. Previn is an exciting performance as he gives it both barrels, but in a way that is the weakness. Sargent - my favourite recording - is far better in the opening. To my (cloth) ears Previn is building tension - hold on this is going to be good, which it is. Sargent's opening is a cry of anguish.

https://youtu.be/ZDEjY_84ROM
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 07:50:19 AM
Quote from: Irons on July 20, 2020, 07:41:27 AM
Jeffrey doesn't need me me in his corner but I do agree up to a point. Previn is an exciting performance as he gives it both barrels, but in a way that is the weakness. Sargent - my favourite recording - is far better in the opening. To my (cloth) ears Previn is building tension - hold on this is going to be good, which it is. Sargent's opening is a cry of anguish.

https://youtu.be/ZDEjY_84ROM

I've heard a lot of Walton 1st performances. Many of them have a lot of merit. What I like about Previn isn't necessarily the individual moments (and I'm sure there are many that one could point out), but his vision in understanding the entire arc of the symphony, which is something many conductors have lost sight of. Previn makes everything sound coherent and purposeful. Like for example, I don't think I've ever responded to the slow movement like I have in Previn's performance. Sometimes I feel that some conductors by the time they reach the last movement have kind of lost their way, but with Previn, I didn't feel this at all.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on July 20, 2020, 08:19:17 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 07:50:19 AM
I've heard a lot of Walton 1st performances. Many of them have a lot of merit. What I like about Previn isn't necessarily the individual moments (and I'm sure there are many that one could point out), but his vision in understanding the entire arc of the symphony, which is something many conductors have lost sight of. Previn makes everything sound coherent and purposeful. Like for example, I don't think I've ever responded to the slow movement like I have in Previn's performance. Sometimes I feel that some conductors by the time they reach the last movement have kind of lost their way, but with Previn, I didn't feel this at all.

Good comments, well put and you are right Previn gets me out of my listening chair in the last movement. Unlike you I have not heard lots of other recordings of this great symphony, just Previn and Sargent. There was another on ASV which I didn't like at all, *I have forgotten by whom. Listen if you have spare time to the way Sargent builds to the climax of the first movement. Very impressive.

*Handley
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 20, 2020, 08:29:27 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 07:50:19 AM
I've heard a lot of Walton 1st performances. Many of them have a lot of merit. What I like about Previn isn't necessarily the individual moments (and I'm sure there are many that one could point out), but his vision in understanding the entire arc of the symphony, which is something many conductors have lost sight of. Previn makes everything sound coherent and purposeful. Like for example, I don't think I've ever responded to the slow movement like I have in Previn's performance. Sometimes I feel that some conductors by the time they reach the last movement have kind of lost their way, but with Previn, I didn't feel this at all.

I'm with you liking Previn's control of the arc of the work - I mentioned a similar thing in an earlier post.  In Malcolm Hayes' book "The selected letters of William Walton" he quotes the composer writing to Walter Legge re Sargent & Previn which were both released at the same time although the Previn was recorded a couple of months earlier; "... both recordings are very good, naturally in parts one is better than the other, but on the whole [Previn] is the best.  What a "pasticcio" after all those years to bring out both at the same time."
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 20, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
I suppose we all create a kind of personal narrative for a piece of music that helps articulate the 'meaning' we find in it.  Personally I do not conceive of the opening oboe theme as fragile.  Instead I think the whole movement as one enormous arc of driven certainty starting from quiet determination through to final exultant resolution.  There are obstacles and hindrances along the way but the ultimate goal in somehow never in doubt.  But the joy of any great piece is that it will respond to a variety of interpretations. 

Here's another(!) very fine YouTube live performance - this time in Gothenburg.  The recording here is very good indeed at revealing the inner complexities of Walton's astonishing contrapuntal writing.  Just a couple of moments when I think the conductor lets the emotional leash relax when it should get ever tighter.  That for me is the key - the sense of something racheting up from first bar to last........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWMV-fMZqT0

Both the two performances are fine, but the Previn live is exceptional. The performance is electrifying and dynamic. It's astonishing. I will look for his Telarc issue.

The below is The Guardian's review on the No. 1:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/apr/01/symphony-guide-william-walton-first?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 20, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Both the two performances are fine, but the Previn live is exceptional. The performance is electrifying and dynamic. It's astonishing. I will look for his Telarc issue.

The below is The Guardian's review on the No. 1:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/apr/01/symphony-guide-william-walton-first?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I wouldn't waste you time with Previn's remake on Telarc. I felt that performance to be rather lackluster compared to his earlier one on RCA.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 09:50:15 AM
Quote from: Irons on July 20, 2020, 08:19:17 AM
Good comments, well put and you are right Previn gets me out of my listening chair in the last movement. Unlike you I have not heard lots of other recordings of this great symphony, just Previn and Sargent. There was another on ASV which I didn't like at all, *I have forgotten by whom. Listen if you have spare time to the way Sargent builds to the climax of the first movement. Very impressive.

*Handley

Thanks. I would definitely try to hear more performanaces if you can. The Thomson is quite good (I recall Jeffrey liking this one rather well). I'm also a fan of the Colin Davis LSO Live performance and I'm not a huge fan of his conducting in general, but I think this performance was rather good.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 20, 2020, 08:29:27 AM
I'm with you liking Previn's control of the arc of the work - I mentioned a similar thing in an earlier post.  In Malcolm Hayes' book "The selected letters of William Walton" he quotes the composer writing to Walter Legge re Sargent & Previn which were both released at the same time although the Previn was recorded a couple of months earlier; "... both recordings are very good, naturally in parts one is better than the other, but on the whole [Previn] is the best.  What a "pasticcio" after all those years to bring out both at the same time."

I haven't heard Sargent's performance of the 1st. I own it, but I haven't got around to it. I should rectify that.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 10:35:51 AM
This nice boxed set restored Sargent's recording of Symphony No.1 after many years of absence. If I say so myself, and at the risk of seeming more of a big head that usual, it was partly due to me. I pestered my nice contact at EMI to reissue the Sargent and also suggested some other music for the boxed set, including Fremaux's great disc of the marches, Gloria, Te Deum etc and the Nigel Kennedy Violin and Viola concertos. He even very kindly gave me a credit in the booklet. The only release by a major company that I have had anything to do with:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 10:46:52 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 10:35:51 AM
This nice boxed set restored Sargent's recording of Symphony No.1 after many years of absence. If I say so myself, and at the risk of seeming more of a big head that usual, it was partly due to me. I pestered my nice contact at EMI to reissue the Sargent and also suggested some other music for the boxed set, including Fremaux's great disc of the marches, Gloria, Te Deum etc and the Nigel Kennedy Violin and Viola concertos. He even very kindly gave me a credit in the booklet. The only release by a major company that I have had anything to do with:
(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=324.0;attach=66096;image)

That's pretty interesting, Jeffrey. I believe this is the set I own or it may be the Sargent Icons set, which I think is more likely as I had bought that EMI Collector's Edition when it was released. Looking at your example, I may have to pester BIS, CPO, Naxos or some other enterprising label into getting them to record Chávez's symphonies, which are in dire need of a modern update. If I could get some kind of petition together and signed, a Chávez symphony cycle could be underway, but I'm not holding my breath. :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 11:10:14 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 10:46:52 AM
That's pretty interesting, Jeffrey. I believe this is the set I own or it may be the Sargent Icons set, which I think is more likely as I had bought that EMI Collector's Edition when it was released. Looking at your example, I may have to pester BIS, CPO, Naxos or some other enterprising label into getting them to record Chávez's symphonies, which are in dire need of a modern update. If I could get some kind of petition together and signed, a Chávez symphony cycle could be underway, but I'm not holding my breath. :)
Thank you my friend. Your Chavez idea sounds like a great plan and you should pursue it. I'm currently enjoying, more than ever before, the reduced orchestra version of Henry V with John Nettles. His narration, compared with Oliver, Plummer and Sheen is understated but more intimate and more like being in an actual performance. Also, the CD includes our much admired 'As You Like It':
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 20, 2020, 11:47:57 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 11:10:14 AM
Thank you my friend. Your Chavez idea sounds like a great plan and you should pursue it. I'm currently enjoying, more than ever before, the reduced orchestra version of Henry V with John Nettles. His narration, compared with Oliver, Plummer and Sheen is understated but more intimate and more like being in an actual performance. Also, the CD includes our much admired 'As You Like It':

8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Brian on July 20, 2020, 12:22:50 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Personally I do not conceive of the opening oboe theme as fragile.  Instead I think the whole movement as one enormous arc of driven certainty starting from quiet determination through to final exultant resolution.

Agreed - I don't think of the opening oboe theme as fragile or vulnerable. In fact I don't really think of it as having intrinsic emotional content at its initial statement - I think the motoric violin accompaniment and the cello motif, when added on, create the frenetic energy that drive the whole movement as those three ideas tug at each other and fight for domination.

Listened to Karabits/Bournemouth this morning. Only real letdown bit was right at the very end of the scherzo, where there could be a bit more whooping savagery (as in Previn/LSO). Extremely good finale and especially the fugue section; very clear sound too. All around, a winner.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 10:58:45 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 19, 2020, 08:34:06 AM
Do you mean sort of being ominous, prophetic, and/or ghostly? I will check the performance later. I am listening to the Judd disc every day and I love it.
I think that in the Boult performance (Pye LP) which I first heard, as my older brother had the LP, it sounded very fragile and vulnerable - just a personal reaction and one that has stayed with me.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 11:05:54 PM
Quote from: Brian on July 20, 2020, 12:22:50 PM
Agreed - I don't think of the opening oboe theme as fragile or vulnerable. In fact I don't really think of it as having intrinsic emotional content at its initial statement - I think the motoric violin accompaniment and the cello motif, when added on, create the frenetic energy that drive the whole movement as those three ideas tug at each other and fight for domination.

Listened to Karabits/Bournemouth this morning. Only real letdown bit was right at the very end of the scherzo, where there could be a bit more whooping savagery (as in Previn/LSO). Extremely good finale and especially the fugue section; very clear sound too. All around, a winner.

The points made by you and Roasted Swan about the oboe at the start are, of course, entirely valid. I'm not saying that the oboe theme has to be played a particular way but just that it means much more to me if it sounds more tentative and hesitant, but that is entirely my own response. The Boult and Previn recordings are IMO quite different in that respect. To me that oboe, in Boult's recording, conveys a sense of sadness and vulnerability which I find very moving and which, again IMO, is missing from Previn's LSO recording.  That is such a great symphony that different recordings bring out different qualities.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 21, 2020, 03:52:54 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 10:58:45 PM
I think that in the Boult performance (Pye LP) which I first heard, as my older brother had the LP, it sounded very fragile and vulnerable - just a personal reaction and one that has stayed with me.

Thank you, Jeffrey. I think I understand your description. "That" oboe in the Boult is arresting and unforgettable (like the jacket art!). Was it in the 60s? I believe the stereo systems were expensive at that time. A record player $1000, a combo $2000 minimum in todays value? Maybe more.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 21, 2020, 04:04:14 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 21, 2020, 03:52:54 AM
Thank you, Jeffrey. I think I understand your description. "That" oboe in the Boult is arresting and unforgettable (like the jacket art!). Was it in the 60s? I believe the stereo systems were expensive at that time. A record player $1000, a combo $2000 minimum in todays value? Maybe more.
The recording is from 1957. I guess that my brother must have got the LP in the 1960s and I probably became interested in it in the very early 1970s. Our record players were not that expensive. The maintenance manager at the block of flats (apartments) where I grew up had a connection with an audio hi-fi company and we obtained our stereo systems comparatively inexpensively.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Brian on July 21, 2020, 08:15:48 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 20, 2020, 11:05:54 PM
The points made by you and Roasted Swan about the oboe at the start are, of course, entirely valid. I'm not saying that the oboe theme has to be played a particular way but just that it means much more to me if it sounds more tentative and hesitant, but that is entirely my own response. The Boult and Previn recordings are IMO quite different in that respect. To me that oboe, in Boult's recording, conveys a sense of sadness and vulnerability which I find very moving and which, again IMO, is missing from Previn's LSO recording.  That is such a great symphony that different recordings bring out different qualities.
Oh yeah - part of the definition of great art is that it can withstand a variety of interpretation and response, and be meaningful through all of them.  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 03:24:49 AM
Listening to this today. One of my favourite Walton CDs, especially for Laurence Olivier narrating Henry V.
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 23, 2020, 04:58:27 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 03:24:49 AM
Listening to this today. One of my favourite Walton CDs, especially for Laurence Olivier narrating Henry V.
(//)

Great album. Although the Olivier Henry V is in the 12cd box, I bought the album for Richard III and Spitfire. In the EMI box, the latter are the versions conducted by Groves. While the Groves recording are fine, the recording of Walton/Philharmonia is colorful and lively.
I am listening the famous Szell album this week. Wonderful. I read that Partita was composed for Szell.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 05:02:13 AM
Here is a comparative review of some famous recordings of Symphony No.1:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/jun99/walton.htm
His comment (although relating to the Haitink recording) that the oboe solo 'has a sense of resignation and desolation rather than brilliance' sums up, to me, the difference between, on the one hand Boult and Sargent, and on the other hand Previn (LSO) and explains why I prefer the former recordings to the latter recording.

Not that I intend to go on and on and on about it.  8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 05:08:55 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 23, 2020, 04:58:27 AM
Great album. Although the Olivier Henry V is in the 12cd box, I bought the album for Richard III and Spitfire. In the EMI box, the latter are the versions conducted by Groves. While the Groves recording are fine, the recording of Walton/Philharmonia is colorful and lively.
I am listening the famous Szell album this week. Wonderful. I read that Partita was composed for Szell.
Best recording of both works DBK - another Walton classic. On LP Olivier's Henry V recording was backed with Olivier reciting Hamlet. As far as I know the Hamlet never was issued on CD. Apparently the CD featuring Olivier doing Henry V contains more music than the LP as there was too much for one LP side. I'll find the LP cover in a moment.

Here it is. As far as I'm aware the Hamlet has never appeared on CD:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 23, 2020, 05:13:43 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 05:08:55 AM
Best recording of both works DBK - another Walton classic. On LP Olivier's Henry V recording was backed with Olivier reciting Hamlet. As far as I know the Hamlet never was issued on CD. Apparently the CD featuring Olivier doing Henry V contains more music than the LP as there was too much for one LP side. I'll find the LP cover in a moment.

Here it is. As far as I'm aware the Hamlet has never appeared on CD:
(//)

On Amazon, a few people complained about the disc for not having the Hamlet recording in question. Thomson's Richard III are very good too, I think. Thomson recorded Palmer's Hamlet as well.

Magnificent jacket art!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 05:17:12 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 23, 2020, 05:13:43 AM
On Amazon, a few people complained about the disc for not having the Hamlet recording in question. Thomson's Richard III are very good too, I think. Thomson recorded Palmer's Hamlet as well.

Magnificent jacket art!
True. Yes, Thomson recorded Hamlet but I would much prefer Olivier than the aged Gielgud in the role.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 23, 2020, 06:41:56 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 05:17:12 AM
True. Yes, Thomson recorded Hamlet but I would much prefer Olivier than the aged Gielgud in the role.

The Chandos versions of Richard III & Hamlet were conducted - as with the Henry V and BoB etc - by Marriner.....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 23, 2020, 06:46:32 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 23, 2020, 06:41:56 AM
The Chandos versions of Richard III & Hamlet were conducted - as with the Henry V and BoB etc - by Marriner.....

Sounds right. I got mixed up!

Thank you for the correction  :) :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 23, 2020, 07:58:35 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 23, 2020, 06:41:56 AM
The Chandos versions of Richard III & Hamlet were conducted - as with the Henry V and BoB etc - by Marriner.....
Yes, my mistake - sorry.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on July 23, 2020, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 19, 2020, 12:18:33 PM
I'd say the only concerto I have trouble with is the Cello Concerto, but even now, I'm beginning to understand more than I have in the past. It's kind of a gnarly sounding work.

The Cello Concerto gnarly? That lush, mysterious first movement is anything but "gnarly" to my ears. ;) It's one of my favorite concerti for the instrument and my admiration for it has only grown since playing in the orchestra for a performance of it earlier this year (I hope to learn the solo part soon). Have you heard Paul Watkins' superb recording (with the BBCSO under Gardner) on Chandos, John?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 23, 2020, 08:12:46 PM
Quote from: kyjo on July 23, 2020, 08:07:56 PM
The Cello Concerto gnarly? That lush, mysterious first movement is anything but "gnarly" to my ears. ;) It's one of my favorite concerti for the instrument and my admiration for it has only grown since playing in the orchestra for a performance of it earlier this year (I hope to learn the solo part soon). Have you heard Paul Watkins' superb recording (with the BBCSO under Gardner) on Chandos, John?

I've got the Watkins/Gardner recording somewhere, but, yes, I do own it, but my objection is the work itself not the performances I've heard, which have all been quite good. I was just listening to the Isserlis/Järvi performance of this concerto not too long ago.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 24, 2020, 06:25:03 AM
Fine performance of Bagatelles by Ana Vidovic. It was recorded when the Croatian guitar player was 18 years old. I purchased the album in the week it was released. Her rendition is a little fast, but it is not a machine-gun guitar. The tone of her guitar is deep and versatile. Her dexterous execution is very accurate and clear. Her music is festive and colorful while Julian Bream's version is dark and atmospheric. Sharon Isbin's version is at the middle between the two. Other works in the album, including Bach's pieces, are wonderful too. Worth listening to this set.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 01:22:55 AM
Best performance of the 'Prologue - The Globe' I have heard. Played very slowly with great dignity and gravitas:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 25, 2020, 06:50:38 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 01:22:55 AM
Best performance of the 'Prologue - The Globe' I have heard. Played very slowly with great dignity and gravitas:
(//)

I need to get the Slatkin set. I really like Penny and Marriner (Palmer suite), as well as Davis/Sargent and Walton/Mathieson.

P.s. Jeffrey, what's the name of Scriabin album you wrote a liner note for?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 06:59:24 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 25, 2020, 06:50:38 AM
I need to get the Slatkin set. I really like Penny and Marriner (Palmer suite), as well as Davis/Sargent and Walton/Mathieson.

P.s. Jeffrey, what's the name of Scriabin album you wrote a liner note for?
Thanks.

I like all those as well DBK. I've always rated Slatkin highly. I think that I've only seen him conduct live once and that was at the Proms many years ago - Copland's 3rd Symphony - a great performance (his two CDs are great as well, on Sony and Naxos - with the original ending).

As for Scriabin - here it is  :)
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 25, 2020, 07:14:45 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 06:59:24 AM
I like all those as well DBK. I've always rated Slatkin highly. I think that I've only seen him conduct live once and that was at the Proms many years ago - Copland's 3rd Symphony - a great performance (his two CDs are great as well, on Sony and Naxos - with the original ending).

As for Scriabin - here it is  :)
(//)

Thank you Jeffrey. I will order both the two discs!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 07:29:18 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 25, 2020, 07:14:45 AM
Thank you Jeffrey. I will order both the two discs!
Great! I really like the restored original ending of Copland's Third Symphony (which Bernstein encouraged Copland to excise). However, opinions on the forum have been 'mixed' about it - there was discussion on the Copland thread about it when Slatkin's Naxos version originally appeared. I note that John Wilson also recorded the original ending for Chandos. As for WW I really enjoyed listening to the Slatkin recording of Henry V earlier today.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 25, 2020, 08:48:58 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 07:29:18 AM
Great! I really like the restored original ending of Copland's Third Symphony (which Bernstein encouraged Copland to excise). However, opinions on the forum have been 'mixed' about it - there was discussion on the Copland thread about it when Slatkin's Naxos version originally appeared. I note that John Wilson also recorded the original ending for Chandos. As for WW I really enjoyed listening to the Slatkin recording of Henry V earlier today.

Count me as an admirer of the original ending of Copland's 3rd, Jeffrey. The Slatkin performance on Naxos was outstanding.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 09:03:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 25, 2020, 08:48:58 AM
Count me as an admirer of the original ending of Copland's 3rd, Jeffrey. The Slatkin performance on Naxos was outstanding.
Good to know! Thanks John.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 25, 2020, 09:31:15 AM
Quote from: kyjo on July 23, 2020, 08:07:56 PM
The Cello Concerto gnarly? That lush, mysterious first movement is anything but "gnarly" to my ears. ;) It's one of my favorite concerti for the instrument and my admiration for it has only grown since playing in the orchestra for a performance of it earlier this year (I hope to learn the solo part soon). Have you heard Paul Watkins' superb recording (with the BBCSO under Gardner) on Chandos, John?

I like the 2nd and final mvt., they are very Walton-esque.   I thought that the Wispelwey/Sydney Orchestra set sounded very good, but I am not very familiar with Cello Concerto. I would appreciate if any knowledgeable member can provide a review.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on July 25, 2020, 10:15:20 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 09:03:45 AM
Good to know! Thanks John.

Actually, if memory serves me correctly, I think it was I who alerted you to this newer recording of the 3rd with Slatkin.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 25, 2020, 12:03:29 PM
My nice and cheap copy of the Leaper/Gran Canaria/Symphony 1 arrived yesterday.  Very impressive as both performance and recording.  NOT as fraught or stressful as other versions but some really beautifully poised playing - check out the flute at the opening of the slow movement which is very elegiac rather than tormented.  I think generally that Waltonian term "Brioso" suits this performance well.  At a push I probably like a tad more venom overall but this is a version that picks its path and then executes those choices extremely well.

Just ordered this version of the Cello concerto too.  The Elgar is a predictable coupling but the Boyle is a good extra "novelty".  I love the sound of the Weimar Staatskapelle and I'm fascinated to hear how they respond to Walton's more astringent orchestral sound.  They made a fine version of the Elgar Violin Concerto and that Germanic rich sound suits that music so well....

(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music127/v4/13/cb/9d/13cb9dfa-f273-348d-5213-6d4f88308daa/4260052382219.jpg/1200x630wp.png)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 10:13:06 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 25, 2020, 10:15:20 AM
Actually, if memory serves me correctly, I think it was I who alerted you to this newer recording of the 3rd with Slatkin.
Very likely  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 10:16:58 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 25, 2020, 12:03:29 PM
My nice and cheap copy of the Leaper/Gran Canaria/Symphony 1 arrived yesterday.  Very impressive as both performance and recording.  NOT as fraught or stressful as other versions but some really beautifully poised playing - check out the flute at the opening of the slow movement which is very elegiac rather than tormented.  I think generally that Waltonian term "Brioso" suits this performance well.  At a push I probably like a tad more venom overall but this is a version that picks its path and then executes those choices extremely well.

Just ordered this version of the Cello concerto too.  The Elgar is a predictable coupling but the Boyle is a good extra "novelty".  I love the sound of the Weimar Staatskapelle and I'm fascinated to hear how they respond to Walton's more astringent orchestral sound.  They made a fine version of the Elgar Violin Concerto and that Germanic rich sound suits that music so well....

(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music127/v4/13/cb/9d/13cb9dfa-f273-348d-5213-6d4f88308daa/4260052382219.jpg/1200x630wp.png)
Interesting RS and glad that you did not feel let down by the Grand Canary version of Walton's First Symphony. I totally agree with your observations. I remember feeling more involved in the performance as I listened to it. It is a long time since I heard it, so I must rectify that soon. I remember being especially impressed by the finale.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 26, 2020, 12:28:31 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 10:16:58 PM
Interesting RS and glad that you did not feel let down by the Grand Canary version of Walton's First Symphony. I totally agree with your observations. I remember feeling more involved in the performance as I listened to it. It is a long time since I heard it, so I must rectify that soon. I remember being especially impressed by the finale.

Definitely worth a revisit and quite the opposite of a let-down.  In fact I much preferred this to other more "esteemed" performances.  I always enjoy versions of pieces that challenge my preconceptions by following through their musical choices with logic and conviction.  Generally tempi are quite bright but with the opposite effect to Previn's driven aggression...
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 26, 2020, 01:19:41 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 26, 2020, 12:28:31 AM
Definitely worth a revisit and quite the opposite of a let-down.  In fact I much preferred this to other more "esteemed" performances.  I always enjoy versions of pieces that challenge my preconceptions by following through their musical choices with logic and conviction.  Generally tempi are quite bright but with the opposite effect to Previn's driven aggression...
Right! Will try to listen to it later. Thanks.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 27, 2020, 04:05:32 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 25, 2020, 06:59:24 AM
I like all those as well DBK. I've always rated Slatkin highly. I think that I've only seen him conduct live once and that was at the Proms many years ago - Copland's 3rd Symphony - a great performance (his two CDs are great as well, on Sony and Naxos - with the original ending).

As for Scriabin - here it is  :)
(//)

Talking about Slatkin, I received these books last week. They will be good readings!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 27, 2020, 04:08:26 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 25, 2020, 12:03:29 PM
My nice and cheap copy of the Leaper/Gran Canaria/Symphony 1 arrived yesterday.  Very impressive as both performance and recording.  NOT as fraught or stressful as other versions but some really beautifully poised playing - check out the flute at the opening of the slow movement which is very elegiac rather than tormented.  I think generally that Waltonian term "Brioso" suits this performance well.  At a push I probably like a tad more venom overall but this is a version that picks its path and then executes those choices extremely well.

Just ordered this version of the Cello concerto too.  The Elgar is a predictable coupling but the Boyle is a good extra "novelty".  I love the sound of the Weimar Staatskapelle and I'm fascinated to hear how they respond to Walton's more astringent orchestral sound.  They made a fine version of the Elgar Violin Concerto and that Germanic rich sound suits that music so well....

(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music127/v4/13/cb/9d/13cb9dfa-f273-348d-5213-6d4f88308daa/4260052382219.jpg/1200x630wp.png)


Yes, the German album sounds great. I checked it on the web. As you indicated, the Weimar orchestra sounds wonderful. Its performance is sophisticated and refined. The cellist is excellent too. I ordered the disc. I like the jacket picture as well. I own the YoYoMa/Previn set- It is arguably most popular cello concert recording and not bad actually. But it seems to me the recording sounds a little old and lacking color. Rather, I think the Lloyd Webber/Marriner set sounds good.

I received the Gran Canaria disc a few days ago too. Yes, it is different from other recordings. The performance is a little reserved, and based on nuances and melodic beauty rather than power or energy. If the other recordings are oil paintings, this set is a watercolor painting. It is a nice change. Specially the 3rd and final movements are impressive.

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 27, 2020, 07:04:33 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 27, 2020, 04:08:26 AM

Yes, the German album sounds great. I checked it on the web. As you indicated, the Weimar orchestra sounds wonderful. Its performance is sophisticated and refined. The cellist is excellent too. I ordered the disc. I like the jacket picture as well. I own the YoYoMa/Previn set- It is arguably most popular cello concert recording and not bad actually. But it seems to me the recording sounds a little old and lacking color. Rather, I think the Lloyd Webber/Marriner set sounds good.

I received the Gran Canaria disc a few days ago too. Yes, it is different from other recordings. The performance is a little reserved, and based on nuances and melodic beauty rather than power or energy. If the other recordings are oil paintings, this set is a watercolor painting. It is a nice change. Specially the 3rd and final movements are impressive.

Very good painting analogy!  Spot on I'd say.  The Lloyd Webber version of the cello concerto is good I agree.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 30, 2020, 05:40:40 AM
Two excellent albums called Walton Conducts Walton (there are 3-5 more albums with the same title!). As for the Heritage set, familiar tunes such as Partita, Orb and Sceptre, Portsmouth, and Johannesburg, are played with exuberance and cheerfulness. Especially, Partita swings and fires. For the Lyrita set, while Capriccio B. and Sinfonia Concertante sound sharp and hip, Music for Children is remarkably exquisite.  Peter Katin in Concertante is not a commanding player like Kathryn Stott, but his playing is classy and elegant. Naturally, my hypothesis is that Sir Walton is a very good conductor.  Here is a question: Has Sir WW conducted any music composed by others? I guess such a recoding, if existent, could be a good way to test the hypothesis.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on July 30, 2020, 07:17:57 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 30, 2020, 05:40:40 AM
Two excellent albums called Walton Conducts Walton (there are 3-5 more albums with the same title!). As for the Heritage set, familiar tunes such as Partita, Orb and Sceptre, Portsmouth, and Johannesburg, are played with exuberance and cheerfulness. Especially, Partita swings and fires. For the Lyrita set, while Capriccio B. and Sinfonia Concertante sound sharp and hip, Music for Children is remarkably exquisite.  Peter Katin in Concertante is not a commanding player like Kathryn Stott, but his playing is classy and elegant. Naturally, my hypothesis is that Sir Walton is a very good conductor.  Here is a question: Has Sir WW conducted any music composed by others? I guess such a recoding, if existent, could be a good way to test the hypothesis.
Two great choices. I'm unaware of him conducting music by other composers.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 02, 2020, 03:43:34 AM
Lately, I have been listening to these Viola Concerto recordings by teachers and student. Though the Imai/Latham-Koenig album is largely forgotten or unknown, it's a fine album. The performance of London Phil is lively and colorful. I like it a lot. Nobuko Imai's performance is excellent too, but just sometimes the volume of her viola becomes too small. I guess the microphone was too distant and/or she moved away from the mic, and the mixer did not fix the volume of viola. Still, her performance and tone remain fairly gorgeous. The Variation Hindemith in the album is a little more relaxed than that of Szell. Latham-Koenig let the music breath and the LPO's performance presents a wider scope and vividness. While I like the sharpness/energy of Szell's Variation, the picturesque presentation by LK/LPO is very attractive.

I heard that David Aaron Carpenter studied with several fine violists, including Imai and Bashmet. The Concerto in his album is excellent with a fine performance by the LPO/Jurowski. Carpenter has an attractive deep, fat tone. In terms of performance of viola exclusively, this set could arguably be the best album I have listened. At least, his performance could rival Bashmet well. As for the orchestras, however, I slightly prefer the Previn/Bashmet set. Overall, all the three disks are excellent albums, I think.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 10, 2021, 04:22:38 AM
I can't stop playing this: (I refer to the lovely, inspiriting 'Jubilate Deo' by Walton and not the irritating commercial about the funeral industry at the start of the video  :()

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlYWaFQ0qFI&list=RDvlYWaFQ0qFI&index=1
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 17, 2021, 01:22:31 AM
I came across a website of a company who sell original press photographs.  These are not reprints or scans but the actual publicity/press photos printed back whenever.  I picked up some nice composer photos that I'm going to frame but this is my favourite... it was taken as a publicity shot for ITV's documentary "At the Haunted End of the Day".  What a great pensive moment.

Partly prompted by this I also listened this morning to Walton's A minor String Quartet.  If you respond to the angular angry energy of Symphony 1 you must hear this too.  What a piece.  I like the Maggini's performance on Naxos but today I listened to this one

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6A8AAOSw8pFf8FFN/s-l400.jpg)

Fabulous version - imperious virtuosity but with bite and passion in spades.......

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 17, 2021, 01:28:49 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 17, 2021, 01:22:31 AM
I came across a website of a company who sell original press photographs.  These are not reprints or scans but the actual publicity/press photos printed back whenever.  I picked up some nice composer photos that I'm going to frame but this is my favourite... it was taken as a publicity shot for ITV's documentary "At the Haunted End of the Day".  What a great pensive moment.

Partly prompted by this I also listened this morning to Walton's A minor String Quartet.  If you respond to the angular angry energy of Symphony 1 you must hear this too.  What a piece.  I like the Maggini's performance on Naxos but today I listened to this one

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6A8AAOSw8pFf8FFN/s-l400.jpg)

Fabulous version - imperious virtuosity but with bite and passion in spades.......
Yes, it's a great photo - almost as good as the one of Holst munching a sandwich! I don't know Walton's SQ, so must rectify that.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on March 18, 2021, 07:23:50 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 10, 2021, 04:22:38 AM
I can't stop playing this: (I refer to the lovely, inspiriting 'Jubilate Deo' by Walton and not the irritating commercial about the funeral industry at the start of the video  :()

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlYWaFQ0qFI&list=RDvlYWaFQ0qFI&index=1

Thanks for sharing Jeffrey - very inspiriting indeed! I also discovered his Coronation Te Deum recently which is another truly joyous work.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on March 18, 2021, 07:25:30 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 17, 2021, 01:22:31 AM
Partly prompted by this I also listened this morning to Walton's A minor String Quartet.  If you respond to the angular angry energy of Symphony 1 you must hear this too.  What a piece.  I like the Maggini's performance on Naxos but today I listened to this one

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6A8AAOSw8pFf8FFN/s-l400.jpg)

Fabulous version - imperious virtuosity but with bite and passion in spades.......

Oh yes - a great work. Walton's ingenious rhythmic writing really comes across clearly and effectively in the string quartet medium. Like Elgar and RVW, he wrote a small body of chamber music that is of uniformly high quality and deserves greater recognition.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 19, 2021, 10:51:11 AM
Quote from: kyjo on March 18, 2021, 07:23:50 AM
Thanks for sharing Jeffrey - very inspiriting indeed! I also discovered his Coronation Te Deum recently which is another truly joyous work.
My pleasure Kyle and I'm glad that you enjoyed it. The Coronation Te Deum is my other favourite.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: relm1 on March 19, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
This was such a fantastic listen!  Exceptional music, performance, and recording.  Such exciting and vivid music, now I must check out the full opera!  Stylistically, it's somewhere between Respighi's Roman Trilogy and Ralph Vaughan Williams film scores.  Wow, I loved this.

(https://www.wfmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/yzcqw5-thebritish-preview-m3_550x550-e1615589177638.jpg)

https://www.wfmt.com/2021/03/17/the-british-project-waltons-troilus-cressida/
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 20, 2021, 12:57:17 AM
Quote from: relm1 on March 19, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
This was such a fantastic listen!  Exceptional music, performance, and recording.  Such exciting and vivid music, now I must check out the full opera!  Stylistically, it's somewhere between Respighi's Roman Trilogy and Ralph Vaughan Williams film scores.  Wow, I loved this.

(https://www.wfmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/yzcqw5-thebritish-preview-m3_550x550-e1615589177638.jpg)

https://www.wfmt.com/2021/03/17/the-british-project-waltons-troilus-cressida/

Gosh - this is a bit of a surprise recording.  I love Troilus & Cressida but thought it was one of those works unlikely to get many/any new leases of life.   This is the same suite compiled/arranged by the very great Christopher Palmer and recorded on Chandos as the coupling for Bryden Thomson's (fine) Symphony No.2.  It slightly annoys me that DG are charging pretty much full price for a 31 minute download (only) disc.  No matter what its artistic or technical qualities that will rule it out for me.  Perhaps it will end up coupled on a full length CD and then I'll have a look.

Definitely worth seeking out the full opera.  It is a 'traditional' grand scale Romantic work that runs against the time it was written in that opulent love-conquers-all (but doesn't so you die) style that was so contrary to the Post-War artistic world.  I find Gražinytė-Tyla's referencing Strauss and Korngold in her notes as rather perplexing - too simple and frankly shallow an understanding of Walton and his idiom.  As though he writes for a big orchestra with certain sweeping phrases makes it Straussian.... 

My other sorrow re the full opera is that it has never been completely recorded in the original Walton version.  The Baker revival is the revised score (as well as the change to the title role) and the Chandos recording with a soprano is a hybrid of the two scores.  There is an off-air of the original but sonically and musically this is too compromised to be other than an interesting reference recordings for Troilus fans.

On a tangent - if you do not know it - seek out Christopher Palmer's other Walton scores from his Henry V sequence through to the wonderful orchestration of the Violin Sonata as a kind of Violin Concerto No.2.  Palmer was a great talent who died far too soon
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 20, 2021, 01:28:07 AM
Quote from: relm1 on March 19, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
This was such a fantastic listen!  Exceptional music, performance, and recording.  Such exciting and vivid music, now I must check out the full opera!  Stylistically, it's somewhere between Respighi's Roman Trilogy and Ralph Vaughan Williams film scores.  Wow, I loved this.

(https://www.wfmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/yzcqw5-thebritish-preview-m3_550x550-e1615589177638.jpg)

https://www.wfmt.com/2021/03/17/the-british-project-waltons-troilus-cressida/
V interesting but I will not be buying a full-price download of short duration.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Biffo on March 20, 2021, 02:42:23 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 20, 2021, 01:28:07 AM
V interesting but I will not be buying a full-price download of short duration.

It is available on Spotify if you have it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 22, 2021, 08:11:03 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 10, 2021, 04:22:38 AM
I can't stop playing this: (I refer to the lovely, inspiriting 'Jubilate Deo' by Walton and not the irritating commercial about the funeral industry at the start of the video  :()

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlYWaFQ0qFI&list=RDvlYWaFQ0qFI&index=1

Jeffrey - do you know this disc;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Vaughan-Williams-Clap-Hands/dp/B001RHGZCM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=David+Hill+O+clap+your+hands&qid=1616429187&sr=8-1

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/818LJZMh3+L._SS500_.jpg)

If not, you must get a copy asap!  RIGHT up your street...... wonderful vigorous perormances of Walton and RVW including a dancing "Jubilate Deo" (I prefer this version to the slightly 'pecky' singing on the YouTube link you posted), a THRILLING Psalm 100 - ripe and resonant with the Walton Te Deum, RVW Benedicite and Towards the Unknown Region thrown in plus other gems.  Recorded in Winchester Cathedral which really adds to the sense of musical spectacle

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 22, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
Quote from: Biffo on March 20, 2021, 02:42:23 AM
It is available on Spotify if you have it.
Many thanks Biffo.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 22, 2021, 10:25:40 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 22, 2021, 08:11:03 AM
Jeffrey - do you know this disc;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walton-Vaughan-Williams-Clap-Hands/dp/B001RHGZCM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=David+Hill+O+clap+your+hands&qid=1616429187&sr=8-1

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/818LJZMh3+L._SS500_.jpg)

If not, you must get a copy asap!  RIGHT up your street...... wonderful vigorous perormances of Walton and RVW including a dancing "Jubilate Deo" (I prefer this version to the slightly 'pecky' singing on the YouTube link you posted), a THRILLING Psalm 100 - ripe and resonant with the Walton Te Deum, RVW Benedicite and Towards the Unknown Region thrown in plus other gems.  Recorded in Winchester Cathedral which really adds to the sense of musical spectacle
Indeed I do RS! In fact that was the, recently acquired, CD which introduced me to that fine Walton work ('Jubilate Deo'). Why did I never have this CD before - it's terrific and I have been playing it right through from beginning to end with great pleasure? It most certainly is 'my cup of tea' and thanks very much for recommending it. Works like the 'Coronation Te Deum' and VW's moving 'Benedicite' (only the second recording I think) are the icing on the cake! I agree with you that the performance of 'Jubilate Deo' is preferable to the version that I posted from You Tube.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 22, 2021, 11:58:12 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 22, 2021, 10:25:40 AM
Indeed I do RS! In fact that was the, recently acquired, CD which introduced me to that fine Walton work ('Jubilate Deo'). Why did I never have this CD before - it's terrific and I have been playing it right through from beginning to end with great pleasure? It most certainly is 'my cup of tea' and thanks very much for recommending it. Works like the 'Coronation Te Deum' and VW's moving 'Benedicite' (only the second recording I think) are the icing on the cake! I agree with you that the performance of 'Jubilate Deo' is preferable to the version that I posted from You Tube.

A small example of RVW's utter genius - that trumpet descant in Psalm 100 - I'm certain that what they teach the angels at the "101 Last Trump Class".  And the atmosphere of the recording in the cathedral with those mighty organ pedals is perfect for this type of music....!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 22, 2021, 01:35:43 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 22, 2021, 11:58:12 AM
A small example of RVW's utter genius - that trumpet descant in Psalm 100 - I'm certain that what they teach the angels at the "101 Last Trump Class".  And the atmosphere of the recording in the cathedral with those mighty organ pedals is perfect for this type of music....!
Totally agree - can't understand why this recording passed me by for so many decades!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on March 22, 2021, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: relm1 on March 19, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
This was such a fantastic listen!  Exceptional music, performance, and recording.  Such exciting and vivid music, now I must check out the full opera!  Stylistically, it's somewhere between Respighi's Roman Trilogy and Ralph Vaughan Williams film scores.  Wow, I loved this.

(https://www.wfmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/yzcqw5-thebritish-preview-m3_550x550-e1615589177638.jpg)

https://www.wfmt.com/2021/03/17/the-british-project-waltons-troilus-cressida/

Interesting. I'll have to check this out. I love so much of what Walton wrote, but I do find this DG release unusual or unusual for them as they haven't really paid much attention to Walton's music before.

Edit: Curiosity got the better of me, I bought the download of it via the Apple iTunes store for $5. I'll definitely report my impressions of it here whenever I get a chance to give it a listen.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on March 22, 2021, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 22, 2021, 10:21:39 AM
Many thanks Biffo.

Jeffrey, it's also available for listening on YouTube. If you want to check it out.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on March 22, 2021, 02:33:49 PM
Cross-Posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 22, 2021, 02:22:02 PM
NP: Walton Troilus & Cressida, Symphonic Suite (Gražinytė-Tyla)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg5NDk0Ny4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTQ4NjgwODF9)

I have to say that relm1's references are pretty spot-on. I also hear a bit of Revueltas, especially in The Trojans in the brass. But the wonderful thing here is Walton's compositional voice is never in question. This could've been composed by no one else.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 22, 2021, 02:41:52 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 22, 2021, 02:29:24 PM
Jeffrey, it's also available for listening on YouTube. If you want to check it out.
Thanks John!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on March 22, 2021, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 22, 2021, 02:41:52 PM
Thanks John!

8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on June 12, 2021, 08:29:19 PM
Cross-posted from the WAYLT thread:

Walton: Piano Quartet

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cBcvbJiTL._SX355_.jpg)

My goodness, I had forgotten how astounding this early work is! One can hear an impressionistic Ravelian influence in some passages (especially in the gorgeous slow movement), but overall this is a stunningly mature work. Walton really comes into his own in the exciting, syncopated finale. I simply can't imagine this performance being bettered, either. It's undoubtedly one of my favorite Walton works as well as one of the great piano quartets.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 13, 2021, 05:27:33 AM
Quote from: kyjo on June 12, 2021, 08:29:19 PM
Cross-posted from the WAYLT thread:

Walton: Piano Quartet

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cBcvbJiTL._SX355_.jpg)

My goodness, I had forgotten how astounding this early work is! One can hear an impressionistic Ravelian influence in some passages (especially in the gorgeous slow movement), but overall this is a stunningly mature work. Walton really comes into his own in the exciting, syncopated finale. I simply can't imagine this performance being bettered, either. It's undoubtedly one of my favorite Walton works as well as one of the great piano quartets.

Love the recording!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 13, 2021, 07:56:48 AM
I haven't heard the Naxos recording, but I get on just fine with this one on Hyperion:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571173405.png)

All the performances here are top-drawer as would be expected from The Nash Ensemble.

For the String Quartet(s), it doesn't get much better than this recording with the Gabrielli Quartet:

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH8944.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 13, 2021, 05:26:30 PM
I revisited the SQs recently, and I thought they show Walton as an expert composer for this medium. Two highly complex, dense and rewarding pieces. Very impressive music overall. The Piano Quartet is also stunning. I don't remember how his Violin Sonata sounds like, but I guess it must be splendid as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on June 13, 2021, 05:59:54 PM
Quote from: relm1 on March 19, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
This was such a fantastic listen!  Exceptional music, performance, and recording.  Such exciting and vivid music, now I must check out the full opera!  Stylistically, it's somewhere between Respighi's Roman Trilogy and Ralph Vaughan Williams film scores.  Wow, I loved this.

(https://www.wfmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/yzcqw5-thebritish-preview-m3_550x550-e1615589177638.jpg)

https://www.wfmt.com/2021/03/17/the-british-project-waltons-troilus-cressida/

Yup, a bit of a surprise to hear Respighi in there, but apparently Walton admired the composer.  Now I'll be listening for it in other Walton works.

Now that I've heard both recordigns, I have to give the edge to MGT for the superior recording.

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 13, 2021, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: Daverz on June 13, 2021, 05:59:54 PM
Yup, a bit of a surprise to hear Respighi in there, but apparently Walton admired the composer.  Now I'll be listening for it in other Walton works.

Now that I've heard both recordigns, I have to give the edge to MGT for the superior recording.

For further listening to Walton in 'Respighi mode' you should give a listen to the Waterfall Scene from the As You Like It Suite. Stunning.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 13, 2021, 08:15:07 PM
I think Quartet A minor became Sonata For Strings (or Sonata For String Orchestra) recorded by Hickox and Edward Gardner. I am too lazy to research on who did the orchestration (probably Sir Walton). I like the both recordings, but the Gardner is a little too fast.  I imagine veteran people prefer the quartet format though.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 13, 2021, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 13, 2021, 08:15:07 PM
I think Quartet A minor became Sonata For Strings (or Sonata For String Orchestra) recorded by Hickox and Edward Gardner. I am too lazy to research on who did the orchestration (probably Sir Walton). I like the both recordings, but the Gardner is a little too fast.  I imagine veteran people prefer the quartet format though.

Yes, the Sonata for Strings was arranged by Walton at the request of Neville Marriner.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 13, 2021, 08:28:43 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 13, 2021, 08:26:36 PM
Yes, the Sonata for Strings was arranged by Walton at the request of Neville Marriner.

Thanks a lot, John  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 13, 2021, 08:33:56 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 13, 2021, 08:28:43 PM
Thanks a lot, John  :)

You're welcome. 8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 13, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 13, 2021, 05:26:30 PM
I revisited the SQs recently, and I thought they show Walton as an expert composer for this medium. Two highly complex, dense and rewarding pieces. Very impressive music overall. The Piano Quartet is also stunning. I don't remember how his Violin Sonata sounds like, but I guess it must be splendid as well.

Absolutely listen to the Sonata again as soon as you can!  And just for fun try and hear Christopher Palmer's remarkably idiomatic and effective orchestration of it as a kind of Violin Concerto Mk.2.  I had not bothered with listening to it for years but did recently and was thrilled by it all over again (Palmer was simply brilliant)

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH9073.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 14, 2021, 12:05:53 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 13, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
Absolutely listen to the Sonata again as soon as you can!  And just for fun try and hear Christopher Palmer's remarkably idiomatic and effective orchestration of it as a kind of Violion Concerto Mk.2.  I had not bothered with listening to it for years but did recently and was thrilled by it all over again (Palmer was simply brilliant)

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH9073.jpg)
I must track down this CD and listen to the Sonata. Agree about Christopher Palmer who died much too young.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 14, 2021, 06:00:59 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 13, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
Absolutely listen to the Sonata again as soon as you can!  And just for fun try and hear Christopher Palmer's remarkably idiomatic and effective orchestration of it as a kind of Violin Concerto Mk.2.  I had not bothered with listening to it for years but did recently and was thrilled by it all over again (Palmer was simply brilliant)

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH9073.jpg)

Ordered!  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 14, 2021, 06:05:20 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 13, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
Absolutely listen to the Sonata again as soon as you can!  And just for fun try and hear Christopher Palmer's remarkably idiomatic and effective orchestration of it as a kind of Violin Concerto Mk.2.  I had not bothered with listening to it for years but did recently and was thrilled by it all over again (Palmer was simply brilliant)

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH9073.jpg)

A great disc, but this could be said of most from that Chandos series.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 14, 2021, 06:26:03 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 14, 2021, 06:05:20 AM
A great disc, but this could be said of most from that Chandos series.

Yes indeed - the original Chandos/Walton Edition series was remarkably consistent and included quite a few pieces that have hardly (if ever) featured elsewhere - it does surprise me that "legit" Walton scores such as the Varii Capricci have had so few recordings - or the Britten Improvisations or Prologo e Fantasia for starters.  Generally I prefer these "Edition" recordings on Chandos to their more recent Gardner remakes
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 14, 2021, 06:30:11 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 14, 2021, 06:26:03 AM
Yes indeed - the original Chandos/Walton Edition series was remarkably consistent and included quite a few pieces that have hardly (if ever) featured elsewhere - it does surprise me that "legit" Walton scores such as the Varii Capricci have had so few recordings - or the Britten Improvisations or Prologo e Fantasia for starters.  Generally I prefer these "Edition" recordings on Chandos to their more recent Gardner remakes

Yes, I am so glad that they recorded Varii Capricci, an orchestral version of 5 Bagatelles. Wonderful disc of the magnificent music.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 14, 2021, 06:31:04 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 14, 2021, 06:26:03 AM
Yes indeed - the original Chandos/Walton Edition series was remarkably consistent and included quite a few pieces that have hardly (if ever) featured elsewhere - it does surprise me that "legit" Walton scores such as the Varii Capricci have had so few recordings - or the Britten Improvisations or Prologo e Fantasia for starters.  Generally I prefer these "Edition" recordings on Chandos to their more recent Gardner remakes

Yes, indeed. I have found Edward Gardner and John Wilson for that matter uninteresting as a whole. I'm afraid that the glory days of Chandos are far behind us.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 14, 2021, 06:43:15 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 14, 2021, 06:30:11 AM
Yes, I am so glad that they recorded Varii Capricci, an orchestral version of 5 Bagatelles. Wonderful disc of the magnificent music.

++1 - the Varii are 15 minutes of vintage Walton - the presence of just this one recording is a real headscratcher.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Brian on June 14, 2021, 06:59:38 AM
For those who buy/bought the Andre Previn Very Big Box on Warner, it includes an outstanding album of Walton's Second + Portsmouth Point, but also an eclectic "Music Night" recital of music that he and the LSO played on a BBC program once. The first big number is Walton's "Orb and Sceptre", but before that, they play a theme tune composed by Previn for the BBC show. It's rather funny because the Previn tune is clearly a Walton pastiche. You transition straight from the very faithful fake Walton to the real stuff.

As an aside, I looked up Orb and Sceptre and it got me thinking. That piece was written for the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. Walton also wrote a coronation march for her father, George VI. Before that, the most recent coronation marches were by Elgar and Saint-Saëns, plus additional pieces by Parry and Stanford.

So the question is - now that it's been nearly seventy years since the last coronation march had to be written - who would do it now? Who would Prince Charles choose? The current Master of the Queen's Music is Judith Weir, but Walton, Elgar, and Saint-Saëns didn't hold the job when they composed their works, as the Master can call upon celebrity helpers to pitch in for really big occasions. In fact, Weir's job currently is more of an advocacy gig, and she's not the first to treat the job that way; when Elgar became Master in the mid-20s, he mostly served as a dispenser of advice and lobbyist for causes like getting Granville Bantock knighted and removing the K from "musick" ( ;D ). Also: Weir is on a ten-year term which ends in 2024.

So the field will be wide open. Assuming QEII is mortal, perhaps a risky assumption.  ;D
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 14, 2021, 07:14:11 AM
Quote from: Brian on June 14, 2021, 06:59:38 AM
For those who buy/bought the Andre Previn Very Big Box on Warner, it includes an outstanding album of Walton's Second + Portsmouth Point, but also an eclectic "Music Night" recital of music that he and the LSO played on a BBC program once. The first big number is Walton's "Orb and Sceptre", but before that, they play a theme tune composed by Previn for the BBC show. It's rather funny because the Previn tune is clearly a Walton pastiche. You transition straight from the very faithful fake Walton to the real stuff.

As an aside, I looked up Orb and Sceptre and it got me thinking. That piece was written for the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. Walton also wrote a coronation march for her father, George VI. Before that, the most recent coronation marches were by Elgar and Saint-Saëns, plus additional pieces by Parry and Stanford.

So the question is - now that it's been nearly seventy years since the last coronation march had to be written - who would do it now? Who would Prince Charles choose? The current Master of the Queen's Music is Judith Weir, but Walton, Elgar, and Saint-Saëns didn't hold the job when they composed their works, as the Master can call upon celebrity helpers to pitch in for really big occasions. In fact, Weir's job currently is more of an advocacy gig, and she's not the first to treat the job that way; when Elgar became Master in the mid-20s, he mostly served as a dispenser of advice and lobbyist for causes like getting Granville Bantock knighted and removing the K from "musick" ( ;D ). Also: Weir is on a ten-year term which ends in 2024.

So the field will be wide open. Assuming QEII is mortal, perhaps a risky assumption.  ;D

Those Previn performances of Symphony No. 2 and Portsmouth Point Overture are the Collector's Edition on Warner and they are fantastic performances. As for who would be Master of the Queen's music after Weir, there are several composers who I think would do well in the position: Thomas Adès, Roxanna Panufnik, Mark-Anthony Turnage or Jonathan Dove.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 14, 2021, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 13, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
Absolutely listen to the Sonata again as soon as you can!  And just for fun try and hear Christopher Palmer's remarkably idiomatic and effective orchestration of it as a kind of Violin Concerto Mk.2.  I had not bothered with listening to it for years but did recently and was thrilled by it all over again (Palmer was simply brilliant)

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH9073.jpg)

Interesting to know, I'll keep your comments in mind. Thank you.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on June 15, 2021, 06:50:58 PM
The Violin Sonata in its original form is a very fine work. I'll be interested to hear that orchestration of it!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 18, 2021, 02:50:10 AM
Partly prompted by this recent discussion I picked up a copy of the 4 disc "Walton Conducts Walton" edition from EMI;

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9b4tgQpkMaXHFHXezDiWgFHU2nH-wiZ-zaQ&usqp=CAU)

In fact I only was missing one of the discs from their separate issues but its a good one - and one of my very first Walton LP's from my teens!

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/252309197359_/HQM-1006-Walton-Conducts-Walton-Facade-Crown-Imperial.jpg)

I loved that record.  The Johannesberg Festival Overture is such fun and a wonderfully bustling Portsmouth Point.  Also in this CD set is the contents of another much-played LP;

(https://album.hfpuls.ee/images/b2/57/116490-sir-william-walton-philharmonia-orchestra-walton-film-music.jpg)

I'm sure other forum members are familiar with the scenario of knowing an LP so well down to the slightest crack or pop your copy might have.  I find I listen to the CD still expecting the crackle for the LP!  Part of the pleasure of this 4 CD set is the quality of the liner notes - a full 27 pages of essays and detailed notes as well as old photographs.  Anyway this is a good excuse to listen again to some very old musical friends......

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 18, 2021, 05:54:05 AM
I will look for the 4 disc set, it looks great. While there are many discs called Walton Conducts Walton, I have one from Heritage (EMI recordings?) and another from Lyrita. As for the Heritage set, Partita, Orb and Sceptre, Portsmouth, and Johannesburg, are played with exuberance. Especially, Partita fires. For the Lyrita set, Capriccio B. and Sinfonia Concertante sound great. Peter Katin in the Concertante sounds classy and elegant. Plus, Music for Children is a nice surprise and great music.  In these recordings, the performances of orchestras are excellent. Sir Walton is a very good conductor.

Informative liner-notes are always very helpful. Also, I have Michael Kennedy's book on Walton, but haven't started reading it yet. Probably I will open the book next month.  I listened to Sonata for Violin and Orchestra via streaming right after ordering the cd. That's a great composition and very Waltonesque.

P.s. Is the name of the box "Walton Edition"?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 18, 2021, 06:42:25 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 18, 2021, 05:54:05 AM
I will look for the 4 disc set, it looks great. While there are many discs called Walton Conducts Walton, I have one from Heritage (EMI recordings?) and another from Lyrita. As for the Heritage set, Partita, Orb and Sceptre, Portsmouth, and Johannesburg, are played with exuberance. Especially, Partita fires. For the Lyrita set, Capriccio B. and Sinfonia Concertante sound great. Peter Katin in the Concertante sounds classy and elegant. Plus, Music for Children is a nice surprise and great music.  In these recordings, the performances of orchestras are excellent. Sir Walton is a very good conductor.

Informative liner-notes are always very helpful. Also, I have Michael Kennedy's book on Walton, but haven't started reading it yet. Probably I will open the book next month.  I listened to Sonata for Violin and Orchestra via streaming right after ordering the cd. That's a great composition and very Waltonesque.

P.s. Is the name of the box "Walton Edition"?

The Lyrita disc is quite different but definitely worth getting/hearing.  All the performances there are in typical Lyrita top notch sound and are excellent.  The Heritage disc are the same performances as the EMI/Walton Edition although I couldn't comment of whether one transfer is better than the other.  I've attached an image of the box I've just acquired.  Glad you enjoyed the Walton/Palmer Violin Sonata orchestration.

Kennedy's book on Walton is a good read.  I'm not sure anyone has dug really deep into Walton's whole back-story/early years.  He was such a ferocious/precicous talent - the whole "taken under the wings of the Sitwells" seems a tad too simple as are his early years in general.  Perhaps the documentation doesn't exist!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 18, 2021, 03:33:22 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 18, 2021, 02:50:10 AM
Partly prompted by this recent discussion I picked up a copy of the 4 disc "Walton Conducts Walton" edition from EMI;

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9b4tgQpkMaXHFHXezDiWgFHU2nH-wiZ-zaQ&usqp=CAU)

In fact I only was missing one of the discs from their separate issues but its a good one - and one of my very first Walton LP's from my teens!

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/252309197359_/HQM-1006-Walton-Conducts-Walton-Facade-Crown-Imperial.jpg)

I loved that record.  The Johannesberg Festival Overture is such fun and a wonderfully bustling Portsmouth Point.  Also in this CD set is the contents of another much-played LP;

(https://album.hfpuls.ee/images/b2/57/116490-sir-william-walton-philharmonia-orchestra-walton-film-music.jpg)

I'm sure other forum members are familiar with the scenario of knowing an LP so well down to the slightest crack or pop your copy might have.  I find I listen to the CD still expecting the crackle for the LP!  Part of the pleasure of this 4 CD set is the quality of the liner notes - a full 27 pages of essays and detailed notes as well as old photographs.  Anyway this is a good excuse to listen again to some very old musical friends......
I bought the excellent 'Walton Edition' set when it first came out. I also had that fine HMV Concert Classics LP of the film music which was in the same series as Sargent's excellent (IMO) recording of the First Symphony. The box set included the Olivier extracts from Henry V which did not feature on the LP and was another reason for obtaining the boxed set. I found it odd that Olivier's Hamlet extracts, accompanied by Walton's music never AFAIK made it to CD, although the LP was an RCA release I seem to recall. I like Walton's own recording of the 1st Symphony as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on June 19, 2021, 12:35:57 AM
It does seem far-fetched that Walton would make a recording for the subscription label The World Record Club but EMI did licence recordings from them and eventually buy the catalogue. Usually when recordings sourced from other labels WRC would credit it on the label, with the Walton Film Score LP there is no such information. Something I have often wondered about.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 19, 2021, 06:07:18 AM
Quote from: Irons on June 19, 2021, 12:35:57 AM
It does seem far-fetched that Walton would make a recording for the subscription label The World Record Club but EMI did licence recordings from them and eventually buy the catalogue. Usually when recordings sourced from other labels WRC would credit it on the label, with the Walton Film Score LP there is no such information. Something I have often wondered about.
I think that I took this LP out of the record library in my youth. Unlike the 'Concerts Classics' release it does not feature the Spitfire, Prelude and Fugue.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 19, 2021, 06:55:05 AM
Prompted by the wonderful discussion here, I just ordered 2 oop disc/set. They are The Walton Edition 4 disc set and Walton SY1/Wagner by Jascha Horenstein. I am so excited to receive them and play them with my vacuum tube (valve) amps. I don't know you gents' opinion of the Horenstein recording, but I found an Amazon (USA) customer's review below interesting. He even briefly mentions a recording of William Boughton.
Irons, the record of film scores looks hip and cool. I assume the 4 disc set I bought has all these recordings. Can't wait checking them out.

- - - - -
As proven time again throughout his career, give Jascha Horenstein a score, and invariably he would see it differently, and at the same time, penetrate to the heart of it, sometimes in startling fashion. This live recording from 1970 is an example.

Do not come to this recording expecting the kind of quicksilver kinetics of the famous Andre Previn version, or anything like it. This is a slower, darker, different experience that is awesome in its own way. Almost the opposite of Previn.

Although the score for the first movement calls for "allegro assai", and most versions go fast, Horenstein takes it at something closer to moderato. (The first movement goes around 16 minutes, a full minute slower than even William Boughton's recent "slow" version.) Again, do not expect the music to take off and fly, like most standard interpretations. Instead, Horenstein walks Walton's darkest demons before you, in all of their rage, fury and angst. It is harrowing, disturbing, cataclysmic. Horenstein continues this in the second movement, delivering the "malice" that Walton calls for---the exact feeling that is missing in most other versions (some of which are no more than quirky). And where other intepreters offer the third movement andante in a mood of reflection, Horenstein evokes genuine loss, anguish, and heartbreak. Finally, the fourth movement---bombastic, borderline hokey, and excuse for orchestral splash under most batons---is thunderous and majestic, but serious; the emergence from struggle. You will feel the weight from this journey, but it will be worth it.

Even if you already own and have heard other Walton Firsts, and there are many good ones, this one is special. It not only stands up to any other version for power, but stands alone for the depth of interpretation.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 19, 2021, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 19, 2021, 06:55:05 AM
Prompted by the wonderful discussion here, I just ordered 2 oop disc/set. They are The Walton Edition 4 disc set and Walton SY1/Wagner by Jascha Horenstein. I am so excited to receive them and play them with my vacuum tube (valve) amps. I don't know you gents' opinion of the Horenstein recording, but I found an Amazon (USA) customer's review below interesting. He even briefly mentions a recording of William Boughton.
Irons, the record of film scores looks hip and cool. I assume the 4 disc set I bought has all these recordings. Can't wait checking them out.

- - - - -
As proven time again throughout his career, give Jascha Horenstein a score, and invariably he would see it differently, and at the same time, penetrate to the heart of it, sometimes in startling fashion. This live recording from 1970 is an example.

Do not come to this recording expecting the kind of quicksilver kinetics of the famous Andre Previn version, or anything like it. This is a slower, darker, different experience that is awesome in its own way. Almost the opposite of Previn.

Although the score for the first movement calls for "allegro assai", and most versions go fast, Horenstein takes it at something closer to moderato. (The first movement goes around 16 minutes, a full minute slower than even William Boughton's recent "slow" version.) Again, do not expect the music to take off and fly, like most standard interpretations. Instead, Horenstein walks Walton's darkest demons before you, in all of their rage, fury and angst. It is harrowing, disturbing, cataclysmic. Horenstein continues this in the second movement, delivering the "malice" that Walton calls for---the exact feeling that is missing in most other versions (some of which are no more than quirky). And where other intepreters offer the third movement andante in a mood of reflection, Horenstein evokes genuine loss, anguish, and heartbreak. Finally, the fourth movement---bombastic, borderline hokey, and excuse for orchestral splash under most batons---is thunderous and majestic, but serious; the emergence from struggle. You will feel the weight from this journey, but it will be worth it.

Even if you already own and have heard other Walton Firsts, and there are many good ones, this one is special. It not only stands up to any other version for power, but stands alone for the depth of interpretation.

Never seen or heard of that Horenstein/Walton 1 - the review sounds fascinating - please do make sure to post your thoughts!  I've quite a few of those Intaglio discs and the sound ranges from really quite good to truly awful - depending on the quality of the original radio broadcast I guess.  Fingers crossed this is nearer the good end of the scale
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 20, 2021, 10:46:27 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 19, 2021, 11:03:14 AM
Never seen or heard of that Horenstein/Walton 1 - the review sounds fascinating - please do make sure to post your thoughts!  I've quite a few of those Intaglio discs and the sound ranges from really quite good to truly awful - depending on the quality of the original radio broadcast I guess.  Fingers crossed this is nearer the good end of the scale
I also like the Horenstein recording but it's ages since I heard it. The Karajan (seriously!) is also worth looking out for.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 21, 2021, 07:19:03 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 20, 2021, 10:46:27 PM
I also like the Horenstein recording but ages it's ages since I heard it. The Karajan (seriously!) is also worth looking out for.

Good to hear that you like the Horenstein. I never knew that Karajan conducted SY01!  I guess Horenstein 01 is the slowest interpretation and perhaps the Harty the fastest?
Jfyi, a short review of the Horenstein from another Amazon customer:

Horenstein takes a considerably slower tempo than anyone else, making this perhaps the most dramatic interpretation of this work ever recorded. Not sure why most other conductors are in such a rush in the first movement; that just destroys the tension as you will learn (by way of contrast) here. Not bad sound either for a live concert of the time. Faust Overture pretty good too.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on June 21, 2021, 08:07:27 AM
AFAIK Karajan didn't record Walton's 1st commercially, but a concert performance with an italian orchestra is included in the Great Conductors series:

(https://img.discogs.com/aPgtzj3lfeBs5rC56ICkiqrm-NU=/fit-in/600x547/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-17473255-1613654971-8979.jpeg.jpg)

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on June 21, 2021, 08:54:50 AM
I have the 1st symphony under Boult (Somm), Haitink (EMI), Davis (LSO), and Daniel (Naxos).

What other version(s) should I look for as an alternative pov ?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on June 21, 2021, 09:58:56 AM
Quote from: André on June 21, 2021, 08:54:50 AM
I have the 1st symphony under Boult (Somm), Haitink (EMI), Davis (LSO), and Daniel (Naxos).

What other version(s) should I look for as an alternative pov ?

Previn (RCA), Thomson (Chandos) and I think Litton (Decca) has the right measure of this piece too.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 10:00:34 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 21, 2021, 09:58:56 AM
Previn (RCA), Thomson (Chandos) and I think Litton (Decca) has the right measure of this piece too.

+1 For Previn (RCA) and Thomson (Chandos). I'm less keen on the Litton.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 21, 2021, 10:21:19 AM
Quote from: André on June 21, 2021, 08:54:50 AM
I have the 1st symphony under Boult (Somm), Haitink (EMI), Davis (LSO), and Daniel (Naxos).

What other version(s) should I look for as an alternative pov ?

For standard interpretations, I like Boult and Haitink. As for unique interpretations, Adrian Leaper, Horenstein (checked on YT and waiting for the cd now), and Harty (fast, historical recording) are enjoyable to me.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Brian on June 21, 2021, 10:40:40 AM
Karabits on Onyx has a lot of the muscle, flash, and brashness of Previn/LSO in both symphonies, in state of the art sound. Previn's still my guy, but Karabits is really impressive and both symphonies are on one disc. Of your recordings, André, I confess to only knowing Paul Daniel.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on June 21, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
Quote from: André on June 21, 2021, 08:54:50 AM
I have the 1st symphony under Boult (Somm), Haitink (EMI), Davis (LSO), and Daniel (Naxos).

What other version(s) should I look for as an alternative pov ?

I also like Karabits, if, after getting Previn/RCA, you still want another recording.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 21, 2021, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: André on June 21, 2021, 08:54:50 AM
I have the 1st symphony under Boult (Somm), Haitink (EMI), Davis (LSO), and Daniel (Naxos).

What other version(s) should I look for as an alternative pov ?

I like Leaper for unexpected insights.  No mentions yet for Mackerras on EMI with the LPO - also coupled with an excellent No.2 (LSO).  Karabits was OK for me but nothing remarkable....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: VonStupp on June 21, 2021, 02:36:47 PM
Quote from: André on June 21, 2021, 08:54:50 AM
I have the 1st symphony under Boult (Somm), Haitink (EMI), Davis (LSO), and Daniel (Naxos).

What other version(s) should I look for as an alternative pov ?

I will second the Previn on RCA, which I just posted yesterday.

Quote from: VonStupp on June 20, 2021, 10:46:14 AM
Sir William Walton
Symphony 1 in b-flat minor

Ralph Vaughan Williams
The Wasps: Overture

LSO - André Previn
(1966 & 1971)

A world beater, for sure.

(https://ia802906.us.archive.org/24/items/mbid-49fe7098-b732-40a3-ba13-646db437f6c0/mbid-49fe7098-b732-40a3-ba13-646db437f6c0-26106940293.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: André on June 21, 2021, 08:07:27 AM
AFAIK Karajan didn't record Walton's 1st commercially, but a concert performance with an italian orchestra is included in the Great Conductors series:

(https://img.discogs.com/aPgtzj3lfeBs5rC56ICkiqrm-NU=/fit-in/600x547/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-17473255-1613654971-8979.jpeg.jpg)
Yes, that's the one!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: André on June 21, 2021, 08:54:50 AM
I have the 1st symphony under Boult (Somm), Haitink (EMI), Davis (LSO), and Daniel (Naxos).

What other version(s) should I look for as an alternative pov ?
The Leaper with the Orchestra of Grand Canary is surprisingly good, but I'd recommend the Thomson recording on Chandos. Like John I'm less keen on the Litton. The Hamilton Harty (1935) is an absolute must - it always has me on the edge of my seat and has a unique atmosphere. Sargent and Boult (PYE) are my other favourites. Also a thumbs up for Mackerras and Brabbins. I prefer Previn's RPO recording to the more famous LSO recording. If I had to choose one for you I would probably go for Mackerras which is a fine version of both symphonies:

(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: André on June 22, 2021, 09:47:26 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, gents !  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 25, 2021, 05:43:38 AM
I received the Horenstein SY01 disc. I like it a lot. The musical scope is much wider and the music is more vivid. Some passages and their aesthetics I haven't previously paid much attention to are breathing and shining now (or having different meanings.) Overall, the music is very dynamic and colorful, and it conveys more tensions. The quality of recording sound is somewhere between good and vg.

Also, currently enjoying this disc of cello concerto. The performance of the cellist is excellent with nice tone and dexterity. The orchestra is good/vg, if not as good as the Weimar orchestra in the other recording. The Hindemith Cello Concerto is vg as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on June 25, 2021, 07:34:32 AM
The Walton Cello Concerto still gives me some problems --- I just can't really get onboard with it like I can his other concerti. For me, this concerto isn't Walton at his best.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 25, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 25, 2021, 07:34:32 AM
The Walton Cello Concerto still gives me some problems --- I just can't really get onboard with it like I can his other concerti. For me, this concerto isn't Walton at his best.

Maybe just no chemistry bet. you and the cello concerto, like me and quiche.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 25, 2021, 11:30:31 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 25, 2021, 05:43:38 AM
I received the Horenstein SY01 disc. I like it a lot. The musical scope is much wider and the music is more vivid. Some passages and their aesthetics I haven't previously paid much attention to are breathing and shining now (or having different meanings.) Overall, the music is very dynamic and colorful, and it conveys more tensions. The quality of recording sound is somewhere between good and vg.

Also, currently enjoying this disc of cello concerto. The performance of the cellist is excellent with nice tone and dexterity. The orchestra is good/vg, if not as good as the Weimar orchestra in the other recording. The Hindemith Cello Concerto is vg as well.

The Hindemith is of course a clever coupling as it provides the theme for Walton's "Variations on a theme of Hindemith" - another great Walton score.....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 25, 2021, 11:41:31 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 25, 2021, 11:30:31 AM
The Hindemith is of course a clever coupling as it provides the theme for Walton's "Variations on a theme of Hindemith" - another great Walton score.....
+1
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 08, 2021, 07:23:45 AM
Just went through the last dozen pages or so of this thread - at present I have the recordings shown below, PLUS just ordered a used copy of the String Quartets from Amazon USA - I know Walton wrote a LOT for films (true of many 20th century British composers), but I don't collect that music despite watching many films and loving the music (one exception, I do have several Korngold CDs). 

Now I'm not interested in adding any vocal/choral works, but noticed a lot of piano music in the list HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_William_Walton) - is this part of his oeuvre worth exploring (I have been adding more Ireland, Bridge, Bliss an maybe one or several more in this genre).  Thanks - Dave :)
.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LmPoiGMoL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51IDCbLFOrL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91-9gL%2BTTgL._SL1422_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81liIWXIVhL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81BFuE8qADL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41SZFMK38GL.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on August 08, 2021, 07:42:05 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 08, 2021, 07:23:45 AM
Just went through the last dozen pages or so of this thread - at present I have the recordings shown below, PLUS just ordered a used copy of the String Quartets from Amazon USA - I know Walton wrote a LOT for films (true of many 20th century British composers), but I don't collect that music despite watching many films and loving the music (one exception, I do have several Korngold CDs). 

Now I'm not interested in adding any vocal/choral works, but noticed a lot of piano music in the list HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_William_Walton) - is this part of his oeuvre worth exploring (I have been adding more Ireland, Bridge, Bliss an maybe one or several more in this genre).  Thanks - Dave :)
.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LmPoiGMoL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51IDCbLFOrL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91-9gL%2BTTgL._SL1422_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81liIWXIVhL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81BFuE8qADL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41SZFMK38GL.jpg)

You may want to check out the excellent Chandos series and see what you're missing and would like to add. I was going to suggest a recording of Belshazzar's Feast, but I see you don't like vocal music. :-\ FYI, this is one of Walton's best works, IMHO.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2021, 07:48:06 AM
This one is not to be missed IMO:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 08, 2021, 08:58:05 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 08, 2021, 07:42:05 AM
You may want to check out the excellent Chandos series and see what you're missing and would like to add. I was going to suggest a recording of Belshazzar's Feast, but I see you don't like vocal music. :-\ FYI, this is one of Walton's best works, IMHO.

Quote from: vandermolen on August 08, 2021, 07:48:06 AM
This one is not to be missed IMO:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51as%2BEIX1NL.jpg)

Thanks John & Jeffrey for your comments above - although I own a lot of medieval/Rennaissance/Baroque vocal music, I rarely buy or listen to much more recent than those periods (NOW, if non-classical 20th century Americana is included, another story!) - so despite Walton's impressive output in the areas of film and vocal music, I'd rather add other recordings to the limited space still available to me - BUT, I'll take a look on Spotify and play some of this music, if present there.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2021, 11:01:41 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 08, 2021, 08:58:05 AM
Thanks John & Jeffrey for your comments above - although I own a lot of medieval/Rennaissance/Baroque vocal music, I rarely buy or listen to much more recent than those periods (NOW, if non-classical 20th century Americana is included, another story!) - so despite Walton's impressive output in the areas of film and vocal music, I'd rather add other recordings to the limited space still available to me - BUT, I'll take a look on Spotify and play some of this music, if present there.  Dave :)
Fair enough Dave, although you could, alternatively, investigate this (IMO) marvellous disc (usually available quite inexpensively). It includes Olivier's own Henry V recording plus much else besides. This ranks, with me, alongside Walton's 1st Symphony and the Viola Concerto as amongst his greatest work:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 08, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 08, 2021, 07:23:45 AM
Just went through the last dozen pages or so of this thread - at present I have the recordings shown below, PLUS just ordered a used copy of the String Quartets from Amazon USA - I know Walton wrote a LOT for films (true of many 20th century British composers), but I don't collect that music despite watching many films and loving the music (one exception, I do have several Korngold CDs). 

Now I'm not interested in adding any vocal/choral works, but noticed a lot of piano music in the list HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_William_Walton) - is this part of his oeuvre worth exploring (I have been adding more Ireland, Bridge, Bliss an maybe one or several more in this genre).  Thanks - Dave :)
.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LmPoiGMoL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51IDCbLFOrL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91-9gL%2BTTgL._SL1422_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81liIWXIVhL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81BFuE8qADL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41SZFMK38GL.jpg)

There is NO substantial Walton piano music.  Just transcriptions of the odd thing - Facade and the like - great fun (especially the 2 piano versions) but nothing original of any stature.  Odd since his piano writing within things such as the Violin Sonata or Piano quartet is perfectly good.  But he was no natural pianist like Ireland or Bax or indeed Moeran.  The Chnados edition is extensive and generally the performances are at least good and often very good.  The film music series is excellent (although some people don't like the Shakespeare scores with speeches interpolated.  The 2 ballets - Wise Virgins and The Quest are good without being vintage Walton - I like the former which are arrangements of Bach.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 08, 2021, 01:12:48 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 08, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
There is NO substantial Walton piano music.  Just transcriptions of the odd thing - Facade and the like - great fun (especially the 2 piano versions) but nothing original of any stature.  Odd since his piano writing within things such as the Violin Sonata or Piano quartet is perfectly good.  But he was no natural pianist like Ireland or Bax or indeed Moeran.  The Chnados edition is extensive and generally the performances are at least good and often very good.  The film music series is excellent (although some people don't like the Shakespeare scores with speeches interpolated.  The 2 ballets - Wise Virgins and The Quest are good without being vintage Walton - I like the former which are arrangements of Bach.

Thanks RS for your usual excellent and knowledgeable comments - I've been looking at the Chandos offerings and much there that would likely not be of interest to me, e.g. voice insertions are usually irritating to my ears, regardless of who may be doing the speaking (absolutely nothing against Sir Larry Olivier - own a number of his films but no Shakespeare).  As already mentioned, I love good film music while watching the movies but own few and not much interest to listen on its own - just so much more in my CD collection that I prefer to put on for a spin.  Thanks again.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 08, 2021, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 08, 2021, 01:12:48 PM
Thanks RS for your usual excellent and knowledgeable comments - I've been looking at the Chandos offerings and much there that would likely not be of interest to me, e.g. voice insertions are usually irritating to my ears, regardless of who may be doing the speaking (absolutely nothing against Sir Larry Olivier - own a number of his films but no Shakespeare).  As already mentioned, I love good film music while watching the movies but own few and not much interest to listen on its own - just so much more in my CD collection that I prefer to put on for a spin.  Thanks again.  Dave :)

Dave - more a film buff thing and something we've touched on a few times here..... the story behind Walton's score for The Battle of Britain is fascinating (and its a great score too).  Walton's old mate Sir Larry is in the film (and very good he is too).  Walton produces a score but its deemed not enough music to fill an LP/OST.  So the producers dump Walton and bring in "safe pair of hands" Ron Goodwin.  Goodwin has NO IDEA this is happening!  Sir Larry goes all Luvvy and threatens to have his name removed from the credits unless Walton's name is retained in the film.  The compromise is that the final "Battle in the Air" sequence by Walton is kept in the film (actually conducted by another old mate of Walton - Malcolm Arnold).  The story goes that Walton ran out of time and ideas for this section so Arnold wrote/orchestrated AND conducted musch of what you hear - it does sound very Arnold-esque.

For many years it was assumed that the original session recordings of the Walton score were lost - not so.  The bit I love is that the early DVD release of Battle of Britain (NOT the blu-ray - crying shame....) gave the viewer the option of watching the film with either the Walton score (complete) or the Goodwin/Walton hybrid.  Its a fascinating study in the emotional impact of music in a film.  Take the opening credits - Walton wrote a "Crown Imperial" noble British march and Goodwin a kind of jaunty Germanic one.  If you can (and are interested!) try and see this..

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/to8AAOSwLg1e2MQI/s-l500.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410JP6H5SML._AC_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2021, 11:05:28 PM
Agree with all RS's points. Before I give up completely with my Walton Film Music recommendations let me recommend this one which features no narration in Henry V. I much prefer Sargent's Henry V Suite to Muir Mathieson's as the Sargent features the moving and atmospheric 'Prelude - The Globe'. This is the same CD with different covers:
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on August 09, 2021, 07:11:01 AM
A huge thumbs up for the Carl Davis recording, especially of the As You Like It Suite and Henry V Suite. The Waterfall Scene from the As You Like It Suite is up there with the best of Walton, IMHO.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 09, 2021, 07:32:17 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 08, 2021, 11:05:28 PM
Agree with all RS's points. Before I give up completely with my Walton Film Music recommendations let me recommend this one which features no narration in Henry V. I much prefer Sargent's Henry V Suite to Muir Mathieson's as the Sargent features the moving and atmospheric 'Prelude - The Globe'. This is the same CD with different covers:

Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 08, 2021, 10:43:31 PM
Dave - more a film buff thing and something we've touched on a few times here..... the story behind Walton's score for The Battle of Britain is fascinating (and its a great score too).  Walton's old mate Sir Larry is in the film (and very good he is too).  Walton produces a score but its deemed not enough music to fill an LP/OST.  So the producers dump Walton and bring in "safe pair of hands" Ron Goodwin.  Goodwin has NO IDEA this is happening!  Sir Larry goes all Luvvy and threatens to have his name removed from the credits unless Walton's name is retained in the film.  The compromise is that the final "Battle in the Air" sequence by Walton is kept in the film (actually conducted by another old mate of Walton - Malcolm Arnold).  The story goes that Walton ran out of time and ideas for this section so Arnold wrote/orchestrated AND conducted musch of what you hear - it does sound very Arnold-esque.

For many years it was assumed that the original session recordings of the Walton score were lost - not so.  The bit I love is that the early DVD release of Battle of Britain (NOT the blu-ray - crying shame....) gave the viewer the option of watching the film with either the Walton score (complete) or the Goodwin/Walton hybrid.  Its a fascinating study in the emotional impact of music in a film.  Take the opening credits - Walton wrote a "Crown Imperial" noble British march and Goodwin a kind of jaunty Germanic one.  If you can (and are interested!) try and see this..

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/to8AAOSwLg1e2MQI/s-l500.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410JP6H5SML._AC_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91XWG69fB8L._SX522_.jpg)

Thanks again Guys - love RS's comments above - BTW, I do own the 9-BD The World at War set narrated by Olivier, who does a great job!  Furthermore, the blu-ray restoration is spectacular (Amazon has some side by side comparisons and I'm sure others are on the web).  I'm a BIG war buff, especially of the American Revolution and the Civil War - living in North Carolina puts you right in the middle of the historic events of these wars.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 09, 2021, 09:17:10 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 09, 2021, 07:32:17 AM
Thanks again Guys - love RS's comments above - BTW, I do own the 9-BD The World at War set narrated by Olivier, who does a great job!  Furthermore, the blu-ray restoration is spectacular (Amazon has some side by side comparisons and I'm sure others are on the web).  I'm a BIG war buff, especially of the American Revolution and the Civil War - living in North Carolina puts you right in the middle of the historic events of these wars.  Dave :)

Ah! The World at War - I remember watching that SO clearly when it was first run.  Sunday afternoons on ITV as I recall.  I just googled it - 1973 - so I was 12 and absolutely riveted.  That Carl Davis theme is seared into my brain (and the title sequence I can see in my mind's eye as I write this).  Olivier's rather laconic delivery of the narration was brilliant in its understatedness!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2021, 09:27:49 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 09, 2021, 09:17:10 AM
Ah! The World at War - I remember watching that SO clearly when it was first run.  Sunday afternoons on ITV as I recall.  I just googled it - 1973 - so I was 12 and absolutely riveted.  That Carl Davis theme is seared into my brain (and the title sequence I can see in my mind's eye as I write this).  Olivier's rather laconic delivery of the narration was brilliant in its understatedness!
Totally agree - I watched it first time round on TV (aged 17) and then in the 'TV Room' (like a cinema with a TV in it) when I was at university. Oh dear - I think I need that Blu-Ray set although I have the DVD boxed set  ::)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 09, 2021, 09:31:50 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 09, 2021, 09:17:10 AM
Ah! The World at War - I remember watching that SO clearly when it was first run.  Sunday afternoons on ITV as I recall.  I just googled it - 1973 - so I was 12 and absolutely riveted.  That Carl Davis theme is seared into my brain (and the title sequence I can see in my mind's eye as I write this).  Olivier's rather laconic delivery of the narration was brilliant in its understatedness!

Same here, i.e. first watched when showing in the USA, then bought when the BD package was restored and released (end of 2017) - for the holidays I replaced my old 42" HDTV w/ a 50" 4K Sony - must rewatch to see if the image is upscaled, and will be more impressive on the larger screen.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2021, 09:34:01 AM
I also have this CD:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 09, 2021, 10:53:59 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 09, 2021, 09:27:49 AM
Totally agree - I watched it first time round on TV (aged 17) and then in the 'TV Room' (like a cinema with a TV in it) when I was at university. Oh dear - I think I need that Blu-Ray set although I have the DVD boxed set  ::)

Well, the reviews are terrific, HERE1 (https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-World-at-War-Blu-ray/14243/#Review) & HERE2 (http://archive.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/bdreviews110210c.html) - now for the version that I own the aspect ratio was restored from the 4:3 original to 16:9 to best fit current HDTV - some have complained, as discussed in the reviews.  Apparently, there is a more recent restoration (https://www.maketheswitch.com.au/article/review-the-world-at-war-the-landmark-documentary-series-restored-in-high-definition) using the original 4:3 aspect ratio (second image below), BUT as described on Amazon USA, playback is only for Region B/2 - SO, for those wanting to upgrade to the blu-ray restorations and have a definite preference for aspect ratio, then pay close attention as to the regional playback.  NOW, if a 4:3 BD Region 1 becomes available would I get yet another copy, don't know?  But, I might stream if a possibility?  Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81aoiEVr0xL._SX522_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71tqujbDALL._SX522_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2021, 11:17:24 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on August 09, 2021, 10:53:59 AM
Well, the reviews are terrific, HERE1 (https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-World-at-War-Blu-ray/14243/#Review) & HERE2 (http://archive.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/bdreviews110210c.html) - now for the version that I own the aspect ratio was restored from the 4:3 original to 16:9 to best fit current HDTV - some have complained, as discussed in the reviews.  Apparently, there is a more recent restoration (https://www.maketheswitch.com.au/article/review-the-world-at-war-the-landmark-documentary-series-restored-in-high-definition) using the original 4:3 aspect ratio (second image below), BUT as described on Amazon USA, playback is only for Region B/2 - SO, for those wanting to upgrade to the blu-ray restorations and have a definite preference for aspect ratio, then pay close attention as to the regional playback.  NOW, if a 4:3 BD Region 1 becomes available would I get yet another copy, don't know?  But, I might stream if a possibility?  Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81aoiEVr0xL._SX522_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71tqujbDALL._SX522_.jpg)
Thanks Dave. I have a multi-region DVD player but it only plays Region 2 Blu-Ray.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 20, 2021, 01:37:51 PM
String Quartets, an early one from 1922 and later work from 1947 - enjoying the performances of the Emperor Quartet - the two quartets are as expected different; the earlier one evokes Bartok, Berg and others from that era; the latter more mature Walton - several reviews attached if interested; there appear to be a considerable number of recordings of these quartets, usually the second one and typically combined w/ other composers.  This was an inexpensive 'used' CD from the Amazon MP which played fine.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41SZFMK38GL.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 27, 2021, 07:56:05 AM
One to cross off the bucket list.  Recently back from a week on Ischia where Walton lived for the latter part of his life with his wife Susanna.  Together they created a remarkable set of gardens (Giardini La Mortella) on a volcanic hillside that now has achieved international fame (it was voted Italy's most beautiful garden in 2002).  It is stunning although in some ways Walton's fame as a composer is almost an adjunct to the garden itself.  That said I doubt there's another cafe in the world where Belshazzar's Feast is the "background" music.  You can't visit any of the house where they lived or see where Walton worked (which I would have liked to a lot) but there is a small/recent recital room built that doubles as a mini-museum.  The gardens are filled with water and fountains and I loved the one which is a representation of the mouthpiece used on Piper's frontcloth for the original production of Facade.  Over the months the gardens are open (April to October) they run concerts so it was nice to sit in the recital room and listen to some live music exactly where Walton lived for so long.  Unfortunately when we were there the young pianist in question was really not very good at all!

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 27, 2021, 08:38:26 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 27, 2021, 07:56:05 AM
One to cross off the bucket list.  Recently back from a week on Ischia where Walton lived for the latter part of his life with his wife Susanna.  Together they created a remarkable set of gardens (Giardini La Mortella) on a volcanic hillside that now has achieved international fame (it was voted Italy's most beautiful garden in 2002).  It is stunning although in some ways Walton's fame as a composer is almost an adjunct to the garden itself.  That said I doubt there's another cafe in the world where Belshazzar's Feast is the "background" music.  You can't visit any of the house where they lived or see where Walton worked (which I would have liked to a lot) but there is a small/recent recital room built that doubles as a mini-museum.  The gardens are filled with water and fountains and I loved the one which is a representation of the mouthpiece used on Piper's frontcloth for the original production of Facade.  Over the months the gardens are open (April to October) they run concerts so it was nice to sit in the recital room and listen to some live music exactly where Walton lived for so long.  Unfortunately when we were there the young pianist in question was really not very good at all!
Fabulous! Am most jealous. Is that where Walton is buried (I can't read the inscription). A pity that you couldn't stroll around the house. I have to say that I'd rather have 'Belshazzar's Feast' as background Café music than 'Facade', which I can't stand. What a great experience.
PS Nice to see Osbert Sitwell's head of WW on display:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 27, 2021, 10:39:13 AM
I tried to upload a higher-res version of the inscription but the limit on photo size stopped me.  Here is a better/legible one of the same pic - yes apparently Walton's ashes are interred inside this stone which overlook the bay of Forio.  If you look in the distant corner of the Piper/Facade front cloth there is a bust of Osbert Sitwell too.  Curiously, Susanna Walton's ashes which are also in the garden have a spelling mistake in the inscription; "belived" [sic]!!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 27, 2021, 10:54:55 AM
Thanks very much RS. There's a memorial stone in Westminster Abbey as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on October 29, 2021, 01:42:08 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 27, 2021, 10:39:13 AM
I tried to upload a higher-res version of the inscription but the limit on photo size stopped me.  Here is a better/legible one of the same pic - yes apparently Walton's ashes are interred inside this stone which overlook the bay of Forio.  If you look in the distant corner of the Piper/Facade front cloth there is a bust of Osbert Sitwell too.  Curiously, Susanna Walton's ashes which are also in the garden have a spelling mistake in the inscription; "belived" [sic]!!

I am not for one moment claiming to be a better photographer then you but may be slighter clearer. How did you enjoy the ferry crossing across the Bay of Naples?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 29, 2021, 04:48:38 AM
Quote from: Irons on October 29, 2021, 01:42:08 AM
I am not for one moment claiming to be a better photographer then you but may be slighter clearer. How did you enjoy the ferry crossing across the Bay of Naples?
Thanks Lol!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on October 29, 2021, 07:34:39 AM
Quote from: Irons on October 29, 2021, 01:42:08 AM
I am not for one moment claiming to be a better photographer then you but may be slighter clearer. How did you enjoy the ferry crossing across the Bay of Naples?

Ah - much better - thankyou!  The crossing was very calm and easy with some great views back to the Bay itself.  The thing that surprised me was just how grotty Naples looked driving from the airport to the ferry.  I get why Walton was smitten by Ischia although we did wonder just how much development there had been down the hill from his house as you look across to Forio.  My guess is the view was quite different/far fewer houses in the late 1940's when he first was there.....
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on October 29, 2021, 07:39:03 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 29, 2021, 04:48:38 AM
Thanks Lol!

A pleasure, Jeffrey. I know RS had a a fabulous visit which will live long in the memory.

At an infinitely smaller scale driving through Barnes last week on my way to football I noticed a blue plaque on a house facing the river just before the railway bridge......Gustav Holst lived here.   
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on October 29, 2021, 07:55:39 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on October 29, 2021, 07:34:39 AM
Ah - much better - thankyou!  The crossing was very calm and easy with some great views back to the Bay itself.  The thing that surprised me was just how grotty Naples looked driving from the airport to the ferry.  I get why Walton was smitten by Ischia although we did wonder just how much development there had been down the hill from his house as you look across to Forio.  My guess is the view was quite different/far fewer houses in the late 1940's when he first was there.....

What I have heard Naples is quite a dangerous place. Walton's house and gardens are a tourist attraction, possibly the only one on Ischia although the island itself is lovely. My one regret is we did not visit Capri.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 29, 2021, 08:03:34 AM
Quote from: Irons on October 29, 2021, 07:39:03 AM
A pleasure, Jeffrey. I know RS had a a fabulous visit which will live long in the memory.

At an infinitely smaller scale driving through Barnes last week on my way to football I noticed a blue plaque on a house facing the river just before the railway bridge......Gustav Holst lived here.   
OT
Nice! He taught at St Paul's Girls' School of course. I visited the Holst Birthplace Museum in Cheltenham some years ago, which I liked very much.
It's now been renamed 'Holst Victorian House' presumably to widen the appeal:
https://holstvictorianhouse.org.uk/
I've also seen his grave in Chichester Cathedral.

Back on topic - there is a commemorative stone for Walton in Westminster Abbey, but, as we have seen, his ashes were interred in the garden of his house in Ischia. Holst was buried at Chichester.
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on October 30, 2021, 02:11:20 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 29, 2021, 08:03:34 AM
OT
Nice! He taught at St Paul's Girls' School of course. I visited the Holst Birthplace Museum in Cheltenham some years ago, which I liked very much.
It's now been renamed 'Holst Victorian House' presumably to widen the appeal:
https://holstvictorianhouse.org.uk/
I've also seen his grave in Chichester Cathedral.

Back on topic - there is a commemorative stone for Walton in Westminster Abbey, but, as we have seen, his ashes were interred in the garden of his house in Ischia. Holst was buried at Chichester.
(//)

Thanks for link Jeffrey. Enjoyed the short film. I have visited Westminster Abbey.

No doubt you have a copy of "Calling on the Composer" on your shelves. Aware what I paid, shocked to see a copy on eBay for 4 quid! An absolute steal.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303051329380?epid=90792166&hash=item468f444f64:g:lwkAAOSwixNfdzw2
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 30, 2021, 02:38:38 AM
Quote from: Irons on October 30, 2021, 02:11:20 AM
Thanks for link Jeffrey. Enjoyed the short film. I have visited Westminster Abbey.

No doubt you have a copy of "Calling on the Composer" on your shelves. Aware what I paid, shocked to see a copy on eBay for 4 quid! An absolute steal.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303051329380?epid=90792166&hash=item468f444f64:g:lwkAAOSwixNfdzw2
Never heard of it! Just ordered it. Thanks Lol.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on October 31, 2021, 01:52:30 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 30, 2021, 02:38:38 AM
Never heard of it! Just ordered it. Thanks Lol.

A bargain, Jeffrey. A return favour for the Warlock book heads up, which I am enjoying very much.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on October 31, 2021, 01:59:39 AM
Quote from: Irons on October 31, 2021, 01:52:30 AM
A bargain, Jeffrey. A return favour for the Warlock book heads up, which I am enjoying very much.
Pleased to hear it Lol! I'm hoping to sneak over to Down Ampney when I'm in my 'Glamping/Shepherd's Hut' in the Cotswolds next week to see VW's birthplace and visit the church where his father was vicar.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on October 31, 2021, 05:56:14 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on October 31, 2021, 01:59:39 AM
Pleased to hear it Lol! I'm hoping to sneak over to Down Ampney when I'm in my 'Glamping/Shepherd's Hut' in the Cotswolds next week to see VW's birthplace and visit the church where his father was vicar.

Hopefully the book will arrive before you depart, Jeffrey. In case it doesn't - since 2001 a display at the church of a series of five boards "on which his life related and his musical output charted".
Have a great trip and fully report back on your return.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on January 18, 2022, 10:43:40 AM
I was pleased to pick up some Walton Scores for my collection quite reasonably on ebay.  One of them is a real rarity - the "Hamlet and Ophelia - A Poem for Orchestra" arr. Muir Matheson.  Matheson of course made suites from Walton other 2 Shakespeare Films as well as arranging the funeral march from Hamlet.  This poem is a kind of suite but less sectional.  As such - it runs to around 13 mins - its a substantial but little known Walton score and one well worth hearing.  I can find only 2 recordings - one by Hickox as part of the Chandos Walton Edition

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91dE3EDHthL._SS500_.jpg).

The other is much rarer.  It first appeared on an LP of Walton film music from Sir Charles Groves and the RLPO

(https://img.discogs.com/tYy3ZUIzsfQySYSIFLqyQqXdDuc=/fit-in/600x567/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8256158-1458066043-4499.jpeg.jpg)

As far as I can tell this has never made it to an individual CD release (I'd be delighted to be proved wrong) although much of the contents excluding Hamlet & Ophelia has appeared on other EMI/Warner Walton compilation discs.  It does appear in the Groves/EMI/British Music box of 14 CD's from around 2015 but already well OOP.  I no longer have the LP but would love to hear Groves' take on this score.  I looked at (expensive) 2nd hand versions of the box but I think this is literally the only track in there I don't already have on individual releases
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2022, 10:14:32 PM
Quote from: Irons on October 31, 2021, 05:56:14 AM
Hopefully the book will arrive before you depart, Jeffrey. In case it doesn't - since 2001 a display at the church of a series of five boards "on which his life related and his musical output charted".
Have a great trip and fully report back on your return.
I never got to Down Ampney in the end Lol although I saw a sign-post towards it. Maybe next time.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 18, 2022, 10:23:14 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on January 18, 2022, 10:43:40 AM
I was pleased to pick up some Walton Scores for my collection quite reasonably on ebay.  One of them is a real rarity - the "Hamlet and Ophelia - A Poem for Orchestra" arr. Muir Matheson.  Matheson of course made suites from Walton other 2 Shakespeare Films as well as arranging the funeral march from Hamlet.  This poem is a kind of suite but less sectional.  As such - it runs to around 13 mins - its a substantial but little known Walton score and one well worth hearing.  I can find only 2 recordings - one by Hickox as part of the Chandos Walton Edition

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91dE3EDHthL._SS500_.jpg).

The other is much rarer.  It first appeared on an LP of Walton film music from Sir Charles Groves and the RLPO

(https://img.discogs.com/tYy3ZUIzsfQySYSIFLqyQqXdDuc=/fit-in/600x567/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8256158-1458066043-4499.jpeg.jpg)

As far as I can tell this has never made it to an individual CD release (I'd be delighted to be proved wrong) although much of the contents excluding Hamlet & Ophelia has appeared on other EMI/Warner Walton compilation discs.  It does appear in the Groves/EMI/British Music box of 14 CD's from around 2015 but already well OOP.  I no longer have the LP but would love to hear Groves' take on this score.  I looked at (expensive) 2nd hand versions of the box but I think this is literally the only track in there I don't already have on individual releases
There's this but it's not the same. The Columbus CD looks very interesting:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 09:25:38 AM
I'm rather enjoying 'Christopher Columbus' and look forward to hearing 'Hamlet and Ophelia':
(//)
Annoyingly, the (second-hand) CD, which plays perfectly, arrived without the booklet featuring the notes etc  :(
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/july05/Walton_Columbus_CHSA5034.htm
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: relm1 on January 23, 2022, 05:48:24 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on January 22, 2022, 09:25:38 AM
I'm rather enjoying 'Christopher Columbus' and look forward to hearing 'Hamlet and Ophelia':
(//)
Annoyingly, the (second-hand) CD, which plays perfectly, arrived without the booklet featuring the notes etc  :(
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/july05/Walton_Columbus_CHSA5034.htm

Jeffrey, you can download the booklet directly from chandos here: https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%205034 (https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%205034)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Leo K. on May 03, 2022, 07:48:06 AM
I only just heard Walton's First Symphony the last few days for the first time - two accounts - the Litton and the Haitink - and I am absolutely floored. I can't get enough of this work. I can't believe I didn't get to this years ago. Wow. This music is absolutely incredible. Now I've also dipped into his Violin Concerto and Belshazzar's Feast and can't believe how amazing his music is. I am stunned!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 03, 2022, 07:52:14 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on May 03, 2022, 07:48:06 AM
I only just heard Walton's First Symphony the last few days for the first time - two accounts - the Litton and the Haitink - and I am absolutely floored. I can't get enough of this work. I can't believe I didn't get to this years ago. Wow. This music is absolutely incredible. Now I've also dipped into his Violin Concerto and Belshazzar's Feast and can't believe how amazing his music is. I am stunned!

Great stuff, Leo K.! Walton is a favorite of mine and I believe you will find, as you go along, that his oeuvre is incredibly consistent. One of my favorite Brits. Give a listen to the chamber works, too, especially the String Quartet in A minor, Piano Quartet and the Violin Sonata. Three outstanding works.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 03, 2022, 07:54:37 AM
Quote from: relm1 on January 23, 2022, 05:48:24 AM
Jeffrey, you can download the booklet directly from chandos here: https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%205034 (https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%205034)
Can't remember if I thanked you but v kind. I downloaded it. Many thanks Karim  :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 03, 2022, 08:01:35 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on May 03, 2022, 07:48:06 AM
I only just heard Walton's First Symphony the last few days for the first time - two accounts - the Litton and the Haitink - and I am absolutely floored. I can't get enough of this work. I can't believe I didn't get to this years ago. Wow. This music is absolutely incredible. Now I've also dipped into his Violin Concerto and Belshazzar's Feast and can't believe how amazing his music is. I am stunned!
Fabulous! It's one of the great British 20th Century symphonies - a masterpiece IMO. Actually I think that it's one of the great symphonies full stop (or period). My favourite recordings (I have about 30  ::)) are by Sargent, Thomson, Mackerras, Walton himself (EMI) and the legendary Heward first recording, which is in a special class of its own. Boult's early PYE recording was also great. I'm not so keen on Previn's RCA recording as most other people are. You might also try to hear the complete the Henry V film music, the Viola Concerto (much better than the Violin Concerto IMO) and the Sinfonia Concertante for Piano and Orchestra and the 'As you like it' film music.

The Symphony No.1 is also one of the great 'despair into defiance' symphonies. The first movement is like a symphony of its own. There's been much debate about the finale and if it lives up to the rest of the symphony (yes, it does) but, in point of fact, none of the other three movements are as good as the opening movement.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Leo K. on May 06, 2022, 08:16:57 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 03, 2022, 08:01:35 AM
Fabulous! It's one of the great British 20th Century symphonies - a masterpiece IMO. Actually I think that it's one of the great symphonies full stop (or period). My favourite recordings (I have about 30  ::)) are by Sargent, Thomson, Mackerras, Walton himself (EMI) and the legendary Heward first recording, which is in a special class of its own. Boult's early PYE recording was also great. I'm not so keen on Previn's RCA recording as most other people are. You might also try to hear the complete the Henry V film music, the Viola Concerto (much better than the Violin Concerto IMO) and the Sinfonia Concertante for Piano and Orchestra and the 'As you like it' film music.

The Symphony No.1 is also one of the great 'despair into defiance' symphonies. The first movement is like a symphony of its own. There's been much debate about the finale and if it lives up to the rest of the symphony (yes, it does) but, in point of fact, none of the other three movements are as good as the opening movement.

Thank you for your interesting comments! I am now listening to the Henry V film music via a broadcast from 2003 with Sir Neville Marriner and the Minnesota Orchestra. It's the "Henry V: A Shakespeare Scenerio" arrangement by Christopher Palmer. The narrator is the great Christopher Plummer. I like it but may seek out the full version as to avoid narration.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 06, 2022, 09:51:51 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 03, 2022, 08:01:35 AM
Fabulous! It's one of the great British 20th Century symphonies - a masterpiece IMO. Actually I think that it's one of the great symphonies full stop (or period). My favourite recordings (I have about 30  ::)) are by Sargent, Thomson, Mackerras, Walton himself (EMI) and the legendary Heward first recording, which is in a special class of its own. Boult's early PYE recording was also great. I'm not so keen on Previn's RCA recording as most other people are. You might also try to hear the complete the Henry V film music, the Viola Concerto (much better than the Violin Concerto IMO) and the Sinfonia Concertante for Piano and Orchestra and the 'As you like it' film music.

The Symphony No.1 is also one of the great 'despair into defiance' symphonies. The first movement is like a symphony of its own. There's been much debate about the finale and if it lives up to the rest of the symphony (yes, it does) but, in point of fact, none of the other three movements are as good as the opening movement.

I agree, Jeffrey, although I'm not as hard on the other three movements as you are. I think the whole symphony congeals well enough, but, most importantly, it's a feast for the ears. Walton may have had a finale problem, but it seems many composers struggled with finales like Bruckner for example or Mahler's 7th. I've also never been fully satisfied with the ending of Sibelius' 5th and you know I'm a huge Sibelian.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 06, 2022, 09:56:33 AM
Quote from: Leo K. on May 06, 2022, 08:16:57 AM
Thank you for your interesting comments! I am now listening to the Henry V film music via a broadcast from 2003 with Sir Neville Marriner and the Minnesota Orchestra. It's the "Henry V: A Shakespeare Scenerio" arrangement by Christopher Palmer. The narrator is the great Christopher Plummer. I like it but may seek out the full version as to avoid narration.
That is the full version (with narration) Leo.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 06, 2022, 09:59:44 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2022, 09:51:51 AM
I agree, Jeffrey, although I'm not as hard on the other three movements as you are. I think the whole symphony congeals well enough, but, most importantly, it's a feast for the ears. Walton may have had a finale problem, but it seems many composers struggled with finales like Bruckner for example or Mahler's 7th. I've also never been fully satisfied with the ending of Sibelius' 5th and you know I'm a huge Sibelian.

While I like all the movements, relatively I prefer the 1, 2, and 4 to the 3rd mvt. Just in comparison though.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 06, 2022, 10:03:44 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 06, 2022, 09:59:44 AM
While I like all the movements, relatively I prefer the 1, 2, and 4 to the 3rd mvt. Just in comparison though.

Yeah, the third movement does seem rather restrained and would've been better if there were more musical meat in that particular movement's bones.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 06, 2022, 09:50:21 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2022, 10:03:44 AM
Yeah, the third movement does seem rather restrained and would've been better if there were more musical meat in that particular movement's bones.
Apparently it was composed before the other movements.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2022, 06:15:29 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 06, 2022, 09:50:21 PM
Apparently it was composed before the other movements.

Interesting. I'll have to read more about this symphony's conception.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: kyjo on May 07, 2022, 08:15:15 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh link=topic=324.msg1443791 #msg1443791 date=1651859984
While I like all the movements, relatively I prefer the 1, 2, and 4 to the 3rd mvt. Just in comparison though.

Agreed. The rather enigmatic slow movement is what prevents this otherwise marvelous work from entering my personal pantheon of top 10 favorite symphonies. It ranks somewhere in the top 10-15 range. 8)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 07, 2022, 09:30:45 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2022, 06:15:29 AM
Interesting. I'll have to read more about this symphony's conception.
I have a feeling John that it was originally conceived as the opening movement (at a faster tempo).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 07, 2022, 07:29:34 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 07, 2022, 09:30:45 AM
I have a feeling John that it was originally conceived as the opening movement (at a faster tempo).

Hmmm...I'll have to do some reading about this, Jeffrey. You've got me rather curious.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 07, 2022, 11:06:42 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2022, 07:29:34 PM
Hmmm...I'll have to do some reading about this, Jeffrey. You've got me rather curious.

Walton originally marked the slow movement "Adagio con melancolia", now amended in printed editions of the score to "Andante con malinconia" ("at a moderate pace, with melancholy").[16] The movement, in C ♯ minor, opens with a melancholy flute melody and later employs a second slow theme; both themes are, in Burton's phrase, "characteristically bitter-sweet lyricism". Walton develops them contrapuntally to a passionate climactic outburst, after which the music subsides and moves to a hushed conclusion.[14] In Walton's earlier drafts the theme of the andante was intended for the opening movement, but he found "it didn't work out, then it became the slow movement".[17] His original plan for the movement included a central scherzando episode, but he removed it from the short score, and nothing of it survives.[16]
From Wiki
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Leo K. on May 08, 2022, 07:59:42 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 06, 2022, 09:56:33 AM
That is the full version (with narration) Leo.

  Ah I see, thank you!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Mirror Image on May 08, 2022, 08:06:54 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 07, 2022, 11:06:42 PM
Walton originally marked the slow movement "Adagio con melancolia", now amended in printed editions of the score to "Andante con malinconia" ("at a moderate pace, with melancholy").[16] The movement, in C ♯ minor, opens with a melancholy flute melody and later employs a second slow theme; both themes are, in Burton's phrase, "characteristically bitter-sweet lyricism". Walton develops them contrapuntally to a passionate climactic outburst, after which the music subsides and moves to a hushed conclusion.[14] In Walton's earlier drafts the theme of the andante was intended for the opening movement, but he found "it didn't work out, then it became the slow movement".[17] His original plan for the movement included a central scherzando episode, but he removed it from the short score, and nothing of it survives.[16]
From Wiki

8) Thanks, Jeffrey.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 22, 2022, 09:14:03 PM
Enjoying Sonata for Strings in this album by Amsterdam Sinfonietta.



(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2734ad1b6441fa6cba022530779).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 10, 2022, 02:11:08 PM
BBC Music Magazine (October) features a CD of Walton's 2nd Symphony (BBC NOW/Otaka) and the Spitfire Prelude and Fugue. There is a third piece of music on the CD which seemed weirdly prescient to me 'The Three Elizabeths' by Eric Coates, which are musical portraits of Queen Elizabeth 1st, Elizabeth, the late Queen Mother and 'Princess Elizabeth' (who became HM Queen Elizabeth II). Very strange.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vers la flamme on September 10, 2022, 02:52:32 PM
I want the 1st symphony, but I'm torn between three Chandos recordings of it: Gibson/Scottish, Thomson/London, and Gardner/BBC. They all sound good. Anyone have an opinion?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Brian on September 10, 2022, 03:06:13 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 10, 2022, 02:52:32 PM
I want the 1st symphony, but I'm torn between three Chandos recordings of it: Gibson/Scottish, Thomson/London, and Gardner/BBC. They all sound good. Anyone have an opinion?
My first choices are Previn/LSO and Karabits, but Gardner on Chandos is a really good and distinctive interpretation. His whole series is high quality, in top sound, and with a consistent point of view that shows he's thought about the whole Walton repertoire deeply rather than just picking up each score for a quick paycheck. It all tends to be fast, but light and incisive and clear, like a razor, rather than bombastic/over the top.

I don't know the other two but those are conductors I would expect to be very good in this repertoire for different reasons (Thomson's neoclassical sharpness, Gibson's sheer headlong craziness).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Daverz on September 10, 2022, 06:17:09 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 10, 2022, 02:52:32 PM
I want the 1st symphony, but I'm torn between three Chandos recordings of it: Gibson/Scottish, Thomson/London, and Gardner/BBC. They all sound good. Anyone have an opinion?

Previn/LSO (RCA).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 10, 2022, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 10, 2022, 02:52:32 PM
I want the 1st symphony, but I'm torn between three Chandos recordings of it: Gibson/Scottish, Thomson/London, and Gardner/BBC. They all sound good. Anyone have an opinion?
Definitely Thomson. The others are both good (the Gibson recording is a bit reverberant). Unlike almost everyone else I'm not keen on Previn's LSO recording (that oboe sounds too confident at the start which wrecks the performance for me - it should have a fragile, tentative quality to it - I prefer the later RPO one). My favourites are Thomson, Sargent (yes!) and Boult (old Pye recording now on Somm and First Hand Remasters). I also like Walton's commercial EMI recording (and his New Zealand SO one). Hamilton Harty's premiere recording from just after the first performance has to be heard, despite the age of the recording - it has a power and urgency unlike any other version. Karabits is good too.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 10, 2022, 11:22:40 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 10, 2022, 09:42:09 PM
Definitely Thomson. The others are both good (the Gibson recording is a bit reverberant). Unlike almost everyone else I'm not keen on Previn's LSO recording (that oboe sounds too confident at the start which wrecks the performance for me - it should have a fragile, tentative quality to it - I prefer the later RPO one). My favourites are Thomson, Sargent (yes!) and Boult (old Pye recording now on Somm and First Hand Remasters). I also like Walton's commercial EMI recording (and his New Zealand SO one). Hamilton Harty's premiere recording from just after the first performance has to be heard, despite the age of the recording - it has a power and urgency unlike any other version. Karabits is good too.

Of the Chandos recordings a definite +1 for Thomson.  A very fine obdurate performance of the symphony but with the substantial bonus of Walton's last orchestral work the Varii Capricii - the 5 guitar bagatelles in orchestral form.  This is a work well-worth hearing in its own right but oddly this is its only recording.  Away from Chandos and the other "usual suspects" I think Mackerras' version is very fine too and coupled with a good Symphony No.2.

On a slight tangent Walton Symphony No.2 is the cover disc on this month's BBC Music Magazine with - oddly touchingly - Coates' "The 3 Elizabeths" as one of the couplings..... the 3rd Elizabeth being the most recent queen.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 11, 2022, 12:21:17 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 10, 2022, 11:22:40 PM
Of the Chandos recordings a definite +1 for Thomson.  A very fine obdurate performance of the symphony but with the substantial bonus of Walton's last orchestral work the Varii Capricii - the 5 guitar bagatelles in orchestral form.  This is a work well-worth hearing in its own right but oddly this is its only recording.  Away from Chandos and the other "usual suspects" I think Mackerras' version is very fine too and coupled with a good Symphony No.2.

On a slight tangent Walton Symphony No.2 is the cover disc on this month's BBC Music Magazine with - oddly touchingly - Coates' "The 3 Elizabeths" as one of the couplings..... the 3rd Elizabeth being the most recent queen.
Yes, I should have added Mackerras which is a fine version of both symphonies. Yes, 'The Three Elizabeths' - very touching.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vers la flamme on September 11, 2022, 06:11:48 AM
^I was also looking at the Mackerras on EMI Eminence. Many thanks, boys. I'll pick one and run with it. I have tried many times with Walton's music but none of it really has yet to click, but then again, all I've heard is some of the film music, Façade, and some of the coronation music which struck me on last listen as very pompous, but insubstantial. And then I have also sampled recordings of the first symphony, which sounds like something worth getting into.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 11, 2022, 02:03:47 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 11, 2022, 06:11:48 AM
^I was also looking at the Mackerras on EMI Eminence. Many thanks, boys. I'll pick one and run with it. I have tried many times with Walton's music but none of it really has yet to click, but then again, all I've heard is some of the film music, Façade, and some of the coronation music which struck me on last listen as very pompous, but insubstantial. And then I have also sampled recordings of the first symphony, which sounds like something worth getting into.
I'd recommend Symphony No.1, Viola Concerto (which I prefer to the more famous Violin Concerto), Sinfonia Concertante (piano and orchestra) and Henry V - complete movie score.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 11, 2022, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 10, 2022, 09:42:09 PM
Definitely Thomson. The others are both good (the Gibson recording is a bit reverberant). Unlike almost everyone else I'm not keen on Previn's LSO recording (that oboe sounds too confident at the start which wrecks the performance for me - it should have a fragile, tentative quality to it - I prefer the later RPO one). My favourites are Thomson, Sargent (yes!) and Boult (old Pye recording now on Somm and First Hand Remasters). I also like Walton's commercial EMI recording (and his New Zealand SO one). Hamilton Harty's premiere recording from just after the first performance has to be heard, despite the age of the recording - it has a power and urgency unlike any other version. Karabits is good too.

The cover of Harty looks so cool and hip!



  (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=324.0;attach=65880;image)



Quote from: vandermolen on September 11, 2022, 02:03:47 PM
I'd recommend Symphony No.1, Viola Concerto (which I prefer to the more famous Violin Concerto), Sinfonia Concertante (piano and orchestra) and Henry V - complete movie score.


+1.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 11, 2022, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 11, 2022, 02:24:44 PM
The cover of Harty looks so cool and hip!



  (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=324.0;attach=65880;image)




+1.
Oh yes! I had that LP too Manabu - here's the later CD release:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Scion7 on September 11, 2022, 11:51:00 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 11, 2022, 11:34:43 PM
Oh yes! I had that LP too Manabu - here's the later CD release:

Thanks for the tip  -   I will try to seek that one out.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 12, 2022, 01:27:42 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on September 11, 2022, 11:51:00 PM
Thanks for the tip  -   I will try to seek that one out.
Well worth it - it was apparently recorded in a freezing cold warehouse shortly after the first performance. The orchestra were described as 'hanging on by their fingertips' but the performance is, in many ways, unrivalled. The CD is also worth having for the viola Concerto.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: foxandpeng on September 12, 2022, 04:08:23 AM
I have consistently neglected/overlooked William Walton. I'm not really sure why, other than the fact that there are so many composers out there, and it is challenging to listen to all of them. It isn't that I have never listened, but never with any enduring effort or attention. Immature ear perhaps. or wrong frame of mind before now, or just other things more shiny at the moment in question. Who knows? In light of this thread's recent activity, I am going to try to rectify that.

Listening this morning to his Symphony #1 with Sir Colin Davis and the London SO as a toe in the water. No reason for the choice of performers, other than Spotify seems to like it :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: foxandpeng on September 12, 2022, 04:44:04 AM
William Walton
Symphony 1
Andrew Litton
Bournemouth SO
Decca


Following up on the Colin Davis version because nobody seems to be recommending that recording. Sounded fine to me, mind, as a mere novice. This one doesn't seem so different, although it is my first listen, and the work itself is pretty new to me.

Not sure why Walton slips the cracks so far, but I am enjoying it up to now.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 12, 2022, 09:46:59 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 11, 2022, 11:34:43 PM
Oh yes! I had that LP too Manabu - here's the later CD release:
(//)

Yes that's the cd I own. For my iPod/iPhone, I changed the cover art to that of the old recording since the latter looks so hip and sharp!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 12, 2022, 09:42:38 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 12, 2022, 09:46:59 AM
Yes that's the cd I own. For my iPod/iPhone, I changed the cover art to that of the old recording since the latter looks so hip and sharp!
Excellent idea Manabu!
Colin Davis and Litton are fine but not my favourites,
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on September 13, 2022, 06:08:33 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on September 12, 2022, 04:44:04 AM
William Walton
Symphony 1
Andrew Litton
Bournemouth SO
Decca



Following up on the Colin Davis version because nobody seems to be recommending that recording. Sounded fine to me, mind, as a mere novice. This one doesn't seem so different, although it is my first listen, and the work itself is pretty new to me.

Not sure why Walton slips the cracks so far, but I am enjoying it up to now.

Not heard Davis or Lytton come to that. The acid test is the opening of the symphony, if the hairs on the back of your neck do not rise then it will not do. Sir Malcolm Sargent strikes a very high bench mark for this and the rest of the symphony too.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 13, 2022, 06:11:44 AM
Quote from: Irons on September 13, 2022, 06:08:33 AM
Not heard Davis or Lytton come to that. The acid test is the opening of the symphony, if the hairs on the back of your neck do not rise then it will not do. Sir Malcolm Sargent strikes a very high bench mark for this and the rest of the symphony too.
I agree! Boult (Pye) does the same, as does Thomson, Harty and Mackerras.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on September 18, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8YlvrjC.jpg)

A performance that fizzes and burns. I have never understood the reasoning of Walton's 2nd Symphony being a poor relation of the 1st, even less so after hearing this.

A "freebie" with the current issue of the BBC MM.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 18, 2022, 11:51:35 PM
Quote from: Irons on September 18, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8YlvrjC.jpg)

A performance that fizzes and burns. I have never understood the reasoning of Walton's 2nd Symphony being a poor relation of the 1st, even less so after hearing this.

A "freebie" with the current issue of the BBC MM.
Excellent Lol! I shall play that CD later.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on September 19, 2022, 12:28:50 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 18, 2022, 11:51:35 PM
Excellent Lol! I shall play that CD later.

Enjoy, Jeffrey! I did. ;)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 19, 2022, 01:17:09 AM
Quote from: Irons on September 19, 2022, 12:28:50 AM
Enjoy, Jeffrey! I did. ;)
I'm sure that I will Lol - thanks :)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 19, 2022, 06:56:46 AM
Quote from: Irons on September 18, 2022, 11:18:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8YlvrjC.jpg)

A performance that fizzes and burns. I have never understood the reasoning of Walton's 2nd Symphony being a poor relation of the 1st, even less so after hearing this.

A "freebie" with the current issue of the BBC MM.

I love the No. 2!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on September 20, 2022, 07:27:15 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 19, 2022, 06:56:46 AM
I love the No. 2!

I am very fond of the George Szell recording.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 20, 2022, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Irons on September 20, 2022, 07:27:15 AM
I am very fond of the George Szell recording.
+1
I like Mackerras and Karabits as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 20, 2022, 01:22:54 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 20, 2022, 12:05:45 PM
+1
I like Mackerras and Karabits as well.

Yes, they all are vg! I am curious about the recording below, and I imagine you (and Irons) have it. Should I purchase this one? Very cool cover art!



(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81XeD5eCQlL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 20, 2022, 10:52:44 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 20, 2022, 01:22:54 PM
Yes, they all are vg! I am curious about the recording below, and I imagine you (and Irons) have it. Should I purchase this one? Very cool cover art!



(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81XeD5eCQlL._SS500_.jpg)

How interesting! No, never heard it. Is it a CD and if so, what label is it on Manabu?

PS it looks to me like a download only. I've always rated Pritchard highly.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on September 21, 2022, 06:20:01 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on September 20, 2022, 10:52:44 PM
How interesting! No, never heard it. Is it a CD and if so, what label is it on Manabu?

PS it looks to me like a download only. I've always rated Pritchard highly.

I have not heard it either. Also, I rate Pritchard highly.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 21, 2022, 09:36:00 AM
^  I think it's a nice and sharp performance!   :)

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kKiY3GLOfdZGY01nr6LWuuqzRYf8V9qpg
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 21, 2022, 12:17:40 PM
Yesterday I listened to Walton's Symphony No.1 for the first time (very first attempt with Walton's music too) and it really impressed me, it was absolutely overwhelming! It is a very powerful, passionate work, with such a great intensity often increasing in gorgeous climaxes and orchestral outbursts, that deeply strikes; but at the same time also clear and incisive, and it doesn't lack precision and logic. I liked very much the contrasting moods along the movements too, the glorious, vibrant atmosphere of the finale was quite suprising after the tension, bitterness and melancholy of the previous parts.
I listened to Karajan's recording, which was certainly beautiful, but unfortunately with a poor sound quality; any suggestion about another good recording as well as other Walton's works?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 21, 2022, 01:35:48 PM
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 21, 2022, 12:17:40 PM
Yesterday I listened to Walton's Symphony No.1 for the first time (very first attempt with Walton's music too) and it really impressed me, it was absolutely overwhelming! It is a very powerful, passionate work, with such a great intensity often increasing in gorgeous climaxes and orchestral outbursts, that deeply strikes; but at the same time also clear and incisive, and it doesn't lack precision and logic. I liked very much the contrasting moods along the movements too, the glorious, vibrant atmosphere of the finale was quite suprising after the tension, bitterness and melancholy of the previous parts.
I listened to Karajan's recording, which was certainly beautiful, but unfortunately with a poor sound quality; any suggestion about another good recording as well as other Walton's works?

Usual suspects(!);

Previn/LSO/RCA
Sargent/New Philharmonia/EMI (if I don't mention this Jeffrey will!)
Thomson/LPO/Chandos
Mackerras/LPO/EMI
Karabits/Bournemouth/Onyx
Brabbins/ BBC Scottish SO / Hyperion

The Mackerras, Karabits & Brabbins all include the 2nd symphony as well - very different but wonderful too.

Other orchestral works to hear;
Portsmouth Point
Belshazzar's Feast (choral)
Violin Concerto
Viola Concerto
Partita
Hindemith Variations
Facade Suites (lighter music)
Scapino Overture
Henry V film score
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 21, 2022, 01:53:45 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 21, 2022, 01:35:48 PM
Usual suspects(!);

Previn/LSO/RCA
Sargent/New Philharmonia/EMI (if I don't mention this Jeffrey will!)
Thomson/LPO/Chandos
Mackerras/LPO/EMI
Karabits/Bournemouth/Onyx
Brabbins/ BBC Scottish SO / Hyperion

The Mackerras, Karabits & Brabbins all include the 2nd symphony as well - very different but wonderful too.

Other orchestral works to hear;
Portsmouth Point
Belshazzar's Feast (choral)
Violin Concerto
Viola Concerto
Partita
Hindemith Variations
Facade Suites (lighter music)
Scapino Overture
Henry V film score

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 21, 2022, 01:59:16 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 21, 2022, 01:35:48 PM
Usual suspects(!);

Previn/LSO/RCA
Sargent/New Philharmonia/EMI (if I don't mention this Jeffrey will!)
Thomson/LPO/Chandos
Mackerras/LPO/EMI
Karabits/Bournemouth/Onyx
Brabbins/ BBC Scottish SO / Hyperion

The Mackerras, Karabits & Brabbins all include the 2nd symphony as well - very different but wonderful too.

Other orchestral works to hear;
Portsmouth Point
Belshazzar's Feast (choral)
Violin Concerto
Viola Concerto
Partita
Hindemith Variations
Facade Suites (lighter music)
Scapino Overture
Henry V film score

Ditto, plus Johannesburg Festival Overture.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 21, 2022, 02:24:06 PM
Writing in 1967 the musicologist Deryck Cooke regarded Walton's First Symphony, along with Vaughan Williams's 4th Symphony, Sibelius's 7th Symphony and Nielsen's 5th Symphony to be amongst the greatest of the 20th Century.
Two other recommendations for recordings:
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on September 21, 2022, 02:37:51 PM
It seems that I'm the only one to have the Haitink/P.O. recording of the Symphony No. 1 in high esteem here. It was the first recording I ever heard of the piece and it still remains as my favorite overall. In spite of its "slow pacing", it doesn't lack power and punch, and the timpani are glorious.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vers la flamme on September 21, 2022, 03:56:22 PM
I saw the Rattle Walton 1 at the used bookstore the other day for $1. I didn't buy it. Was this the right call?
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 21, 2022, 10:47:47 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 21, 2022, 03:56:22 PM
I saw the Rattle Walton 1 at the used bookstore the other day for $1. I didn't buy it. Was this the right call?

Yes.... I actually like Rattle (particularly in his CBSO days) more than a lot of folk and you'd think that Walton 1 would be right up his street.  Its perfectly good but simply put there are better - I just don't think Rattle "believes" in Walton (or Elgar or Vaughan Williams really) so its a case of going through the motions rather than performing from the heart.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 21, 2022, 10:53:58 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 21, 2022, 02:37:51 PM
It seems that I'm the only one to have the Haitink/P.O. recording of the Symphony No. 1 in high esteem here. It was the first recording I ever heard of the piece and it still remains as my favorite overall. In spite of its "slow pacing", it doesn't lack power and punch, and the timpani are glorious.
No, I like it too Cesar - I had the LP.
Another one of my favourite Walton discs is:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 22, 2022, 01:24:29 AM
Is the Ashkenazy's recording of Walton's symphonies the same as this one?

(https://i.discogs.com/mGqYqfneRKkctZ-da35PRf6UzcSa8OINQcM9f-QHVMQ/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:240/w:240/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNzQ0/OTc3LTE1MjE2NTE4/MjgtNDkyNS5qcGVn.jpeg)

Here the symphonies are matched with the Violin Concerto (Chung/Previn/LSO), the Viola Concerto (Neubauer/Litton/BSO) and the Cello Concerto (Cohen/Litton/BSO).
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 22, 2022, 01:39:51 AM
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 22, 2022, 01:24:29 AM
Is the Ashkenazy's recording of Walton's symphonies the same as this one?

(https://i.discogs.com/mGqYqfneRKkctZ-da35PRf6UzcSa8OINQcM9f-QHVMQ/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:240/w:240/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExNzQ0/OTc3LTE1MjE2NTE4/MjgtNDkyNS5qcGVn.jpeg)

Here the symphonies are matched with the Violin Concerto (Chung/Previn/LSO), the Viola Concerto (Neubauer/Litton/BSO) and the Cello Concerto (Cohen/Litton/BSO).
Yes, it is indeed.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 22, 2022, 02:54:47 AM
Thank you all for the suggestions, you've given me much to think about. Being a great Ashkenazy's fan, his Symphonies recording looks very tempting, but so do the others (Previn, Sargent, Haitink, Thomson, etc.).......I'll listen to as much as I can before deciding. I'm also very curious to try the Concertos and the Henry V film score.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 22, 2022, 03:06:31 AM
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 22, 2022, 02:54:47 AM
Thank you all for the suggestions, you've given me much to think about. Being a great Ashkenazy's fan, his Symphonies recording looks very tempting, but so do the others (Previn, Sargent, Haitink, Thomson, etc.).......I'll listen to as much as I can before deciding. I'm also very curious to try the Concertos and the Henry V film score.
I'd recommend this recording:
(//)
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: ritter on September 22, 2022, 03:17:27 AM
And so that Ilaria has a short amuse-gueule of Henry V, this little jewel, Touch her Soft Lips and Part (here conducted by Marriner --I don't know if it0s extracted from the CD Jeffrey posted above):

https://www.youtube.com/v/hBzapuX_31s

And another favourite Walton piece, which might become pertinent in some months' time (I certainly hope it does ;)):

https://www.youtube.com/v/QANTLzPTzp4

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on September 22, 2022, 07:08:12 AM
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 22, 2022, 02:54:47 AM
Thank you all for the suggestions, you've given me much to think about. Being a great Ashkenazy's fan, his Symphonies recording looks very tempting, but so do the others (Previn, Sargent, Haitink, Thomson, etc.).......I'll listen to as much as I can before deciding. I'm also very curious to try the Concertos and the Henry V film score.

The Ashkenazy disc is very good - my mistake to omit it from my list of options.  Walton was very smitten by Chung (musically and otherwise!) and her recording of the violin conc is excellent - as are the Litton other two string concerti.  The Cello concerto is one of Walton's least instantly appealing works but its grown on me over time.  In other words that Decca Twofer is a good bet!
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 22, 2022, 09:30:07 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 22, 2022, 07:08:12 AM
The Ashkenazy disc is very good - my mistake to omit it from my list of options.  Walton was very smitten by Chung (musically and otherwise!) and her recording of the violin conc is excellent - as are the Litton other two string concerti.  The Cello concerto is one of Walton's least instantly appealing works but its grown on me over time.  In other words that Decca Twofer is a good bet!

Thanks, so that set could be a good compromise to start exploring Walton, good to know!

Quote from: ritter on September 22, 2022, 03:17:27 AM
And so that Ilaria has a short amuse-gueule of Henry V, this little jewel, Touch her Soft Lips and Part (here conducted by Marriner --I don't know if it0s extracted from the CD Jeffrey posted above):

https://www.youtube.com/v/hBzapuX_31s

And another favourite Walton piece, which might become pertinent in some months' time (I certainly hope it does ;)):

https://www.youtube.com/v/QANTLzPTzp4

Thanks, Rafael, every suggestion is very welcome, I'll have a listen to these pieces too!

Quote from: vandermolen on September 22, 2022, 03:06:31 AM
I'd recommend this recording:

Henry V

Christopher Plummer, Neville Marriner/Academy of St Martin in the Fields


It looks really promising, Plummer, as well as Olivier, was a well-known shakespearean interpreter.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on September 23, 2022, 03:36:51 AM
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 22, 2022, 09:30:07 AM
Thanks, so that set could be a good compromise to start exploring Walton, good to know!

Thanks, Rafael, every suggestion is very welcome, I'll have a listen to these pieces too!

It looks really promising, Plummer, as well as Olivier, was a well-known shakespearean interpreter.
Yes, I have the Plummer and Olivier versions, and both are excellent in different ways. I also have a version narrated by John 'Bergerac' Nettles and Michael Sheen (rather too closely miked with the orchestra rather distant). BBC Music Magazine released an enjoyable version narrated by Samuel West. The Plummer is the most complete version, but Olivier has a unique atmosphere to it. I don't understand why the Olivier Hamlet has never AFAIK been released on CD.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on March 06, 2023, 11:20:45 PM
A red-hot performance of the 1st, or as it was known then, 'Symphony' from Sir Hamilton Harty. A 1935 recording.

https://youtu.be/uXbuon4FJDQ
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 07, 2023, 11:04:29 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 06, 2023, 11:20:45 PMA red-hot performance of the 1st, or as it was known then, 'Symphony' from Sir Hamilton Harty. A 1935 recording.

https://youtu.be/uXbuon4FJDQ
Yes, it's fabulous.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Symphonic Addict on March 07, 2023, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: Irons on March 06, 2023, 11:20:45 PMA red-hot performance of the 1st, or as it was known then, 'Symphony' from Sir Hamilton Harty. A 1935 recording.

https://youtu.be/uXbuon4FJDQ

For a recording of 1935, it sounds significantly good. However, some details are poor like the timpani part is not very audible.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 08, 2023, 12:10:05 AM
Quote from: Irons on March 06, 2023, 11:20:45 PMA red-hot performance of the 1st, or as it was known then, 'Symphony' from Sir Hamilton Harty. A 1935 recording.

https://youtu.be/uXbuon4FJDQ

Excellent performance and hip cover art.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 09, 2023, 12:45:12 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 21, 2022, 10:47:47 PMYes.... I actually like Rattle (particularly in his CBSO days) more than a lot of folk and you'd think that Walton 1 would be right up his street.  Its perfectly good but simply put there are better - I just don't think Rattle "believes" in Walton (or Elgar or Vaughan Williams really) so its a case of going through the motions rather than performing from the heart.
I (belatedly) agree with this verdict on Rattle.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Luke on March 09, 2023, 01:08:08 AM
The book I am writing, about composers and 'place' in British music, can find little space for Walton as he's generally not a very place-oriented composer. But, when considering why so many composers from the North left it, I did love this little line from him describing his time as a chorister at Christchurch, Oxford. It seems we have 'it's grim up north' to thank for all that wonderful music:

QuoteI thought 'I must make myself interesting somehow or when my voice breaks, I'll be sent home to Oldham. What can I do? Write music.' So I did.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 16, 2023, 02:30:57 AM
From WAYLTN thread:
Walton Symphony No.1
New Haven SO
Cond. William Boughton

A very successful account of this great work.
The oboe passage at the start has just the right fragile quality to it which is essential to my enjoyment of the work (the famous Previn version, while well played, is too 'matter-of-fact' for my liking - I never liked that performance).
Boult (PYE), Sargent, Walton, Harty and Thomson get it just right.


Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 16, 2023, 02:52:45 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 16, 2023, 02:30:57 AMFrom WAYLTN thread:
Walton Symphony No.1
New Haven SO
Cond. William Boughton

A very successful account of this great work.
The oboe passage at the start has just the right fragile quality to it which is essential to my enjoyment of the work (the famous Previn version, while well played, is too 'matter-of-fact' for my liking - I never liked that performance).
Boult (PYE), Sargent, Walton, Harty and Thomson get it just right.




Nice recording! I think W. Walton conducted SY1 with New Zealand Orchestra as well. I forgot how it was.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 16, 2023, 03:52:06 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 16, 2023, 02:52:45 AMNice recording! I think W. Walton conducted SY1 with New Zealand Orchestra as well. I forgot how it was.

Re the Walton 1/New Zealand performance - one of the very few versions of that work I bought and SOLD!! (reach your own verdict!)  Memory is not a great performance and not a great recording......
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on March 16, 2023, 04:04:01 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 16, 2023, 02:52:45 AMNice recording! I think W. Walton conducted SY1 with New Zealand Orchestra as well. I forgot how it was.
Here it is. I rather like all Walton's recordings of the work including the one from the Edinburgh Festival but his EMI studio recording remains my favourite:

Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: relm1 on May 25, 2023, 04:26:59 PM
What is your best recommendation for Belshazzar's Feast?  The only recording I've heard is Rattle/CBSO.  Just curious if I'm missing on something great.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: VonStupp on May 25, 2023, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: relm1 on May 25, 2023, 04:26:59 PMWhat is your best recommendation for Belshazzar's Feast?  The only recording I've heard is Rattle/CBSO.  Just curious if I'm missing on something great.

Previn with Shirley-Quirk!

I also like Willcocks a fair bit too.
VS
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2023, 10:41:32 PM
Quote from: VonStupp on May 25, 2023, 06:24:50 PMPrevin with Shirley-Quirk!

I also like Willcocks a fair bit too.
VS

For sure Previn/LSO/Shirley-Quirk.  Curiously there are a lot of good recordings but not that many great recoridngs.  Its the kind of piece with a big choir and spectacular orchestration that you might think would be a showpiece for any number of conductors/orchestras/labels.  I quite like Andrew Litton's Bournemouth version because it was recorded in Winchester Cathedral and has a real sense of occasion.  Bryn Terfel back in the mid-90's still could just stand and sing magnificently without mannerisms.  Another "big occasion" version turned up on the BBC Music Magazine cover from Andrew Davis, Willard White and the BBC SO forces recorded in Leeds Town Hall - the venue of the 1st performance.  You can find this disc from the usual online marketplaces and its well worth tracking down.  Especially as the coupling is one of the great Tallis Fantasias - this time recorded at its premiere location - Gloucester Cathedral.  So that is one of the few versions of that work recorded in an acoustic, the acoustic that defined the work.  The Belshazzar on this disc is very good, the Tallis is great.

My sorrow with Belshazzar is that apart from a couple of American versions (Ormandy not great  audio, Shaw dull, Abravanel so so) it has never been recorded by a large/good non-British choir and Orchestra.  I could imagine a crack German or East European Choir absolutely nailing it.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on May 26, 2023, 01:48:17 AM
I grew up with Ormandy's recording on LP (reissued in the RCA/Sony box set of 'Great British Music'). I like Walton's studio recording as well.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: VonStupp on May 27, 2023, 06:12:49 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 25, 2023, 10:41:32 PMBryn Terfel back in the mid-90's still could just stand and sing magnificently without mannerisms.  Another "big occasion" version turned up on the BBC Music Magazine cover from Andrew Davis, Willard White and the BBC SO forces.

I see Terfel also sang Belshazzar with Andrew Davis and the BBC in the 90's. I may check it out too!
VS
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Irons on May 28, 2023, 06:00:53 AM
Quote from: Luke on March 09, 2023, 01:08:08 AMThe book I am writing, about composers and 'place' in British music, can find little space for Walton as he's generally not a very place-oriented composer. But, when considering why so many composers from the North left it, I did love this little line from him describing his time as a chorister at Christchurch, Oxford. It seems we have 'it's grim up north' to thank for all that wonderful music:
 

If I may be so bold I disagree. I very much associate Walton's music, especially his concertos, with the small island Ischia in the bay of Naples. Walton did not move to Ischia until 1949 but I am convinced he was aware of its beauty and tranquillity long before that - the opening of the Violin Concerto for example. I was fortunate to visit Walton's home in Ischia a few years ago. 
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Luke on May 28, 2023, 06:11:26 AM
Quote from: Irons on May 28, 2023, 06:00:53 AMIf I may be so bold I disagree. I very much associate Walton's music, especially his concertos, with the small island Ischia in the bay of Naples. Walton did not move to Ischia until 1949 but I am convinced he was aware of its beauty and tranquillity long before that - the opening of the Violin Concerto for example. I was fortunate to visit Walton's home in Ischia a few years ago.

Absolutely right. I should have phrased it more carefully - I was talking about places in Britain. And I agree on the Violin Concerto. It always gets seen as inferior to the Viola Concerto. It probably is. But its specifically Mediterranean lushness and spice is so seductive that when I'm listening to it I always feel they are equals.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Luke on May 28, 2023, 06:13:17 AM
....and maybe Walton did 'predict' Ischia in the Violin Concerto (though I think it might be a more generally Mediterranean thing). After all, he did 'predict' DSCH in the Viola Concerto, years before Dmitri himself used the cipher.
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 04, 2023, 03:09:46 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on May 26, 2023, 01:48:17 AMI grew up with Ormandy's recording on LP (reissued in the RCA/Sony box set of 'Great British Music'). I like Walton's studio recording as well.

I re-listened to the Ormandy/Belshazzar yesterday - and I realise I was too dismissive of it the other day.  The actual engineering is really very good indeed for a recording over 60 years old - lots of detail and weight and a good stereo picture too.  I like the university choir - energetic and engaged and they sound youthful.  Baritone Walter Cassel has a nice voice too but although the sound is good his characterisation is pretty plain.  He reminded me of the Howard Keel in a Rodgers & Hammerstain musical.  Its a nice full sound but more concerned about the beauty of that sound than using the voice to pursue the work's drama.

This might be the kind of recording where Ormandy is criticised for being for a perfectly good, solid interpretation but with no special insights.  Of course the orchestra play very well and the performance is dynamic.  So I'd promote it up my list of Belshazzars but it supports my initial premise that there are a lot of "good" Belshazzars but few that are truly "great".
Title: Re: Sir William Walton
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2023, 01:14:23 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 04, 2023, 03:09:46 AMI re-listened to the Ormandy/Belshazzar yesterday - and I realise I was too dismissive of it the other day.  The actual engineering is really very good indeed for a recording over 60 years old - lots of detail and weight and a good stereo picture too.  I like the university choir - energetic and engaged and they sound youthful.  Baritone Walter Cassel has a nice voice too but although the sound is good his characterisation is pretty plain.  He reminded me of the Howard Keel in a Rodgers & Hammerstain musical.  Its a nice full sound but more concerned about the beauty of that sound than using the voice to pursue the work's drama.

This might be the kind of recording where Ormandy is criticised for being for a perfectly good, solid interpretation but with no special insights.  Of course the orchestra play very well and the performance is dynamic.  So I'd promote it up my list of Belshazzars but it supports my initial premise that there are a lot of "good" Belshazzars but few that are truly "great". I
Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 04, 2023, 03:09:46 AMI re-listened to the Ormandy/Belshazzar yesterday - and I realise I was too dismissive of it the other day.  The actual engineering is really very good indeed for a recording over 60 years old - lots of detail and weight and a good stereo picture too.  I like the university choir - energetic and engaged and they sound youthful.  Baritone Walter Cassel has a nice voice too but although the sound is good his characterisation is pretty plain.  He reminded me of the Howard Keel in a Rodgers & Hammerstain musical.  Its a nice full sound but more concerned about the beauty of that sound than using the voice to pursue the work's drama.

This might be the kind of recording where Ormandy is criticised for being for a perfectly good, solid interpretation but with no special insights.  Of course the orchestra play very well and the performance is dynamic.  So I'd promote it up my list of Belshazzars but it supports my initial premise that there are a lot of "good" Belshazzars but few that are truly "great".
For many years the Ormandy version, on LP, was the only version that I heard. I like the Rutgers University Chorus and also the American accents for some reason.
PS I'm having trouble with the 'quote facility'