I have been absolutely amazed at the number of composers writing excellent music in the period beginning around mid-18th century into the early 19th century (i.e. about the time of Beethoven's death, 1827). In a recent thread on Favorite Period of Music (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,36.20.html), I had spent some time putting together a listing of composers from this era (+ an additional list of a number of these composers w/ their own threads on our previous forum); I believe that these composers (and others to be added) deserved their own thread before this list is 'disappears' in the more general thread - :)
Now, I'm speaking of those composers of lesser fame, so Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, & Schubert (all of whom have separate & often multiple threads) are not the topic of this thread. Thus, I'm re-printing the list from the previous thread (and the list w/ the links) - I hope this thread will provide an area to discuss these many 'other' obscure, less known (or yet to be discovered) composers from this era; of course, many deserve their own threads (some of which already exist). :D
Abel, Carl Friedrich (1723 - 1787)*
Albrechtsberger, Johann Georg (1736 - 1809)
Bach, Carl Philipp Emanuel (1714 - 1788)**
Bach, Johann Christian (1735 - 1782)**
Beck, Franz Ignaz (1734-1809)*
Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827)**
Benda, Frans & Georg (1709-86; 1722-95)
Blavet, Michel (1700-1768)*
Boccherini, Luigi (1743-1805)**
Boyce, William (1711-1779)**
Cambini, Giuseppe Maria (1746 - 1825)
Cannabich, Christian (1731 - 1798)
Cartellieri, Antonio (1772- 1807)**
Carulli, Ferdinando (1770 - 1841)*
Cherubini, Luigi (1760 - 1842)*
Cimarosa, Domenico (1749 - 1801)
Clementi, Muzio (1752 - 1832)**
Cramer, Johann Baptist (1771 - 1858)*
Crusell, Bernhard Henrik (1775 - 1838)**
Danzi, Franz (1763 - 1826)**
Dittersdorf, Carl Ditters von (1739 - 1799)**
Dussek, Jan Ladislav (1760 - 1812)**
Field, John (1782- 1837)**
Galuppi, Baldassare (1706 - 1785)*
Gambaro, Vincent (1785- 1824)*
Giuliani, Mauro (1781- 1829)**
Gluck, Christoph Willibald (1714 - 1787)
Gossec, Francois-Joseph (1734 - 1829)*
Hasse, Johann (1699- 1783)*
Haydn, Franz Joseph (1732 - 1809)**
Haydn, Michael (1737 - 1806)*
Hoffmann, Leopold (1738 - 1793)**
Hoffmeister, Franz Anton (1754 - 1812)*
Holzbauer, Ignaz (1711- 1783)*
Hummel, Johann (1778- 1837)**
Kleinknecht, Jakob (1722- 1794)*
Kraus, Joseph Martin (1756 - 1792)**
Kreutzer, Conradin (1780 - 1849)**
Kreutzer, Rodolphe (1766- 1831)*
Krommer, Franz (1759 - 1831)**
Kuhlau, Friedrich (1786 - 1832)**
Leclair, Jean-Marie (1697- 1764)**
Locatelli, Pietro (1695- 1764)**
Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus (1756 - 1791)**
Myslivecek, Josef (1737- 1781)*
Onslow, Georges (1785- 1853)**
Ordonez, Karl von (1734 - 1786)
Paisiello, Giovanni (1740 - 1816)
Pichl, Vaclav (1741- 1805)*
Pleyel, Ignaz Joseph (1757 - 1831)**
Quantz, Johann Joachim (1697 - 1773) **
Reicha, Anton (1770 - 1836)**
Ries, Ferdinand (1784 - 1838)**
Rosetti, Antonio (1750- 1792)**
Ryba, Jakub Jan (1765 - 1815)
Salieri, Antonio (1750 - 1825)
Sammartini, Giovanni Battista (1700 - 1775)
Schubert, Franz (1797 - 1828)**
Soler, Antonio (1729 - 1783)*
Sor, Fernando (1778 - 1839)*
Sperger, Johannes Matthias (1750 - 1812)
Spohr, Louis (1784 - 1859)**
Stamitz, Carl (1745 - 1801)**
Stamitz, Johann (1717 - 1757)
Tartini, Giuseppe (1692 - 1770)**
Vanhal, Johann Baptist (1739 - 1813)**
Viotti, Giovanni Battista (1755 - 1824)
Wagenseil, Georg Christoph (1715 - 1777)
Weber, Carl Maria von (1786 - 1826)**
Wolf, Ernst Wilhelm (1735 - 1792)*
Wranitzky, Anton (1761 - 1820)
As a continuation, below is a shorter list of composers in this category that have had 'separate' threads in our older GMG forum - just click on the names to the right of each composer, if interested; also, feel free to start/continue a new post in our present forum. :D
Abel, Carl Friedrich (1723 - 1787) Abel (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,13127.0.html)
Boccherini, Luigi (1743-1805) Boccherini (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2311.0.html)
Cartellieri, Antonio (1772- 1807) Cartellieri (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6051.0.html)
Cherubini, Luigi (1760 - 1842) Cherubini (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,10918.0.html)
Clementi, Muzio (1752 - 1832) Clementi (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6437.0.html)
Dittersdorf, Carl Ditters von (1739 - 1799) Dittersdorf (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2367.0.html)
Dussek, Jan Ladislav (1760 - 1812) Dussek (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9360.0.html)
Field, John (1782- 1837) Field (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,10133.0.html)
Hasse, Johann (1699- 1783) Hasse (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6135.0.html)
Haydn, Franz Joseph (1732 - 1809) Haydn (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,104.0.html)
Hoffmann, Leopold (1738 - 1793) Hoffmann (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,11384.0.html)
Holzbauer, Ignaz (1711- 1783) Holzbauer (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,13090.0.html)
Hummel, Johann (1778- 1837) Hummel (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2740.0.html)
Kraus, Joseph Martin (1756 - 1792) Kraus (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2329.0.html)
Krommer, Franz (1759 - 1831) Krommer (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,5132.0.html)
Locatelli, Pietro (1695- 1764) Locatelli (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9994.0.html)
Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus (1756 - 1791) Mozart (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,133.0.html)
Onslow, Georges (1785- 1853) Onslow (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,3046.0.html)
Pichl, Vaclav (1741- 1805) Pichl (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4251.0.html)
Pleyel, Ignaz Joseph (1757 - 1831) Pleyel (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2619.0.html)
Quantz, Johann Joachim (1697 - 1773) Quantz (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9859.0.html)
Reicha, Anton (1770 - 1836) Reicha (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6089.0.html)
Ries, Ferdinand (1784 - 1838) Ries (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2678.0.html)
Rosetti, Antonio (1750- 1792) Rosetti (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9304.0.html)
Salieri, Antonio (1750 - 1825) Salieri (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2387.0.html)
Spohr, Louis (1784 - 1859) Spohr (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,8185.0.html)
Stamitz, Carl (1745 - 1801) Stamitz (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,5672.0.html)
Vanhal, Johann Baptist (1739 - 1813) Vanhal (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,2349.0.html)
Viotti, Giovanni Battista (1755 - 1824) Viotti (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,4293.0.html)
I really enjoy the symphonies of Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach (1732-1795). Only 7 of his 20 symphonies survived World War II, but the ones that remain are fully as good as anything in early to middle period Haydn. There's one late symphony, which sounds roughly comparable to Haydn's Paris symphonies in style.
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on April 14, 2007, 01:55:10 PM
I really enjoy the symphonies of Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach (1732-1795). Only 7 of his 20 symphonies survived World War II, but the ones that remain are fully as good as anything in early to middle period Haydn. There's one late symphony, which sounds roughly comparable to Haydn's Paris symphonies in style.
Mark - thanks for the addition;
JCF Bach was born the same year as
Haydn; I have a lot of CDs of his two 'more famous' brothers, CPE & JC Bach - need to explore those symphonies! :)
Some more additions to this musical period below (carried over from the other thread + some from Harry!):
Backofen, Georg (1768-1830) - excellent CPO disc of
Clarinet Concs. w/ Dieter Klocker
Brandl, Johann (1760-1837) -
Bassoon & Piano Quintets; couple discs on MDG label
Giardini, Felice (1716-1796) - 3-CD
String Trios on Hungaroton (31837-39)
Romberg, Andreas (1767-1821) -
String Quartets, Vol. 2) on MDG (307 1026-2)
Stanley, John (1712-1786) -
Six Concertos, Seven Parts on Hyperion (Goodman & Parley)
Dave,
I believe that you should be appointed the "archivist" of the old GMG....well done.
Quote from: Bill on April 14, 2007, 02:47:59 PM
Dave,
I believe that you should be appointed the "archivist" of the old GMG....well done.
Seconded. Splendid work Dave! :)
Q
Bill & Q - hey, thanks! ::) But these guys (and a few gals) keep 'emerging' from the wookwork - or is Harry in there 'digging them out'? ;D I believe 4 of the 5 on my last 'short' list were posted by him, so I'm sure there will be more to come! Dave
One important omission from your list who should not be overlooked:
V. J. Tomášek (1774 - 1850)
Etienne Mehul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9hul
My favourite time period in music, my specialty! Except for Blavet, I have multiple pieces of music in my collection by every single name mentioned on this thread so far. And yes, I recently bought a new Tomášek CD with two of his piano concerti on it, my first exposure to this composer (other than his name and sketchy biographical stuff).
For anyone maybe wanting to find something new and interesting from this time period, but find the number of names a bit overwhelming, I have over time found a few pieces that I believe would be more popular if more widely known. Even people who aren't as much into music of this time period often like these pieces quite a bit:
Méhul: Symphony #2 in D. Recommended recording: Nimbus Records, Lisbon Gulbenkian Foundation Orchestra conducted by Michel Swierczewski. Very interesting, from the opening seconds. Got a nice opening to it. Most everyone knows Beethoven, but here's a good glimpse into the world that heavily influenced him: Revolution-era French composers. Some people prefer his 3rd symphony, but for some reason I've found this one strikes a chord with more people.
Hummel: Piano Concerto #2 in A minor, Op.85. Piano Concerto #3 in B minor, Op.89. Recommended recording: Chandos, English Chamber Orchestra conducted by Bryden Thomson, with Stephen Hough at the piano. Hop on over here and check out the brief samples: http://tinyurl.com/yvlmje (Note, I have nothing to do with amazon, nor am I trying to endorse them or sell for them). The lyrical theme from the first movement of the B minor is not to be heard in the 1 minute sample, but it's to die for.
Clementi: Symphony #1 (#7?) in C, WoO32. Recommended recording: Chandos, London Mozart Players conducted by Matthias Bamert (Contemporaries of Mozart series). The main body of the first movement is just astonishing. This is some unreal orchestration, and coming from a composer known today almost entirely for his piano practice pieces. Not to mention, the main theme to the first movement is catchy, high-impact, and even a little rough. If you don't have really good sound, you're going to miss out, the orchestration is rich and intricate, there's so much going on. I just wish Bamert and the LMP would record his other surviving symphonies, especially the other "big" ones! You can find at least 2 complete sets of the ones that are still with us, but neither completely satisfies.
Kraus: Symphony in C, VB138 Violin obligato. Recommended recording: Naxos, Swedish Chamber Orchestra conducted by Petter Sundkvist. The main theme to the first movement will float around in your head for the rest of your life, so be warned. I have a hard time singling out any Kraus symphony. This recording I mention is Vol.2 from Naxos of his symphonies, but I'd honestly recommend Vol.1 first. But this symphony is just something else. Kraus is a real find.
John Field: Piano Concerto #2 in A-Flat, H.31. Recommended recording: Naxos, Northern Sinfonia of England conducted by David Haslam; pianist is Benjamin Frith. Lyrical beauty abounds here. The first two movements of this piece are so gorgeous. But don't get too mellow and comfortable, just listen to the bizarre entry of the piano after the orchestral introduction. I admit that I've heard that effect done more interestingly, but it was from an old LP recording of horrible sound quality. Right now, bang for your buck, I think this Naxos disc is a great bargain. If you haven't melted by the end of the first movement, the 2nd is maybe even more beautiful and lyrical. Field was more than just the father of the Nocturne and a huge influence on Chopin; I think this piece would probably get live concert time, were it more well known.
Thanks all for the additions to this ever expanding list - just received a BRO order, in part looking for some MORE of these composers, so below are another half dozen (some are on the original list, but except for 1 CD of Romberg's music, these are all new recordings to me):
Georg Benda (1722-1705) - Sinfornias, Nos. 7-12; Naxos (8.553409)
Johann Gottlieb Graun (1702-1771) - Sinfonia + Violin & Viola Concs.; CPO (999 887-2)
Adalbert Gyrowetz (1763-1850) - String Quartets, Op. 44); Hyperion (67109)
Martin Joseph Mengal (1784-1851) - Wind Quintets; New Classical Adventure (60138-310)
Giovanni Paisiello (1741-1816) - Sinfonia, Overture, & Piano Concs.; Naxos (8.557031)
Andreas Romberg (1767-1821) - Flute Quintets; Naxos (8.554765)
I've not listened to most of these recordings yet, but am currently sampling the Mengal Wind Quintets - on a label not familiar to me (but seems to be devoted to this period & the use of 'authentic' instruments); this is a 2-CD set (but the 2nd disc is only 36") - performed by the Das Reicha'sche Quintett which includes a flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, & bassoon - all based on instruments of the time, including a 'natural' horn. Mengal was Flemish & a horn player; his composition teacher was Reicha (thus, the wind chamber interest, in part). These Wind Quintets are 'after' Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, & Rossini, and appear to be adapted from movements of works by these more 'famous' composers (the liner notes are quite interesting); the instruments are well integrated, more like string writing, performances well done, and good sound recording (would like to hear more from this label). The 2-CD set below (left) w/ a 'real' picture of the composer; pic on right probably not him, but CLICK on image for a short bio - :D
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0009GV216.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45276614_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.balthazarensemble.com/balthazar-upload/Gallay+horn0.jpg) (http://www.balthazarensemble.com/Do/composer/10/View.html)
Quote from: JoshLilly on April 19, 2007, 11:02:14 AM
My favourite time period in music, my specialty! Except for Blavet, I have multiple pieces of music in my collection by every single name mentioned on this thread so far. And yes, I recently bought a new Tomášek CD with two of his piano concerti on it, my first exposure to this composer (other than his name and sketchy biographical stuff).
For anyone maybe wanting to find something new and interesting from this time period, but find the number of names a bit overwhelming, I have over time found a few pieces that I believe would be more popular if more widely known. Even people who aren't as much into music of this time period often like these pieces quite a bit:
Méhul: Symphony #2 in D. Recommended recording: Nimbus Records, Lisbon Gulbenkian Foundation Orchestra conducted by Michel Swierczewski. Very interesting, from the opening seconds. Got a nice opening to it. Most everyone knows Beethoven, but here's a good glimpse into the world that heavily influenced him: Revolution-era French composers. Some people prefer his 3rd symphony, but for some reason I've found this one strikes a chord with more people.
Hummel: Piano Concerto #2 in A minor, Op.85. Piano Concerto #3 in B minor, Op.89. Recommended recording: Chandos, English Chamber Orchestra conducted by Bryden Thomson, with Stephen Hough at the piano. Hop on over here and check out the brief samples: http://tinyurl.com/yvlmje (Note, I have nothing to do with amazon, nor am I trying to endorse them or sell for them). The lyrical theme from the first movement of the B minor is not to be heard in the 1 minute sample, but it's to die for.
Clementi: Symphony #1 (#7?) in C, WoO32. Recommended recording: Chandos, London Mozart Players conducted by Matthias Bamert (Contemporaries of Mozart series). The main body of the first movement is just astonishing. This is some unreal orchestration, and coming from a composer known today almost entirely for his piano practice pieces. Not to mention, the main theme to the first movement is catchy, high-impact, and even a little rough. If you don't have really good sound, you're going to miss out, the orchestration is rich and intricate, there's so much going on. I just wish Bamert and the LMP would record his other surviving symphonies, especially the other "big" ones! You can find at least 2 complete sets of the ones that are still with us, but neither completely satisfies.
Kraus: Symphony in C, VB138 Violin obligato. Recommended recording: Naxos, Swedish Chamber Orchestra conducted by Petter Sundkvist. The main theme to the first movement will float around in your head for the rest of your life, so be warned. I have a hard time singling out any Kraus symphony. This recording I mention is Vol.2 from Naxos of his symphonies, but I'd honestly recommend Vol.1 first. But this symphony is just something else. Kraus is a real find.
John Field: Piano Concerto #2 in A-Flat, H.31. Recommended recording: Naxos, Northern Sinfonia of England conducted by David Haslam; pianist is Benjamin Frith. Lyrical beauty abounds here. The first two movements of this piece are so gorgeous. But don't get too mellow and comfortable, just listen to the bizarre entry of the piano after the orchestral introduction. I admit that I've heard that effect done more interestingly, but it was from an old LP recording of horrible sound quality. Right now, bang for your buck, I think this Naxos disc is a great bargain. If you haven't melted by the end of the first movement, the 2nd is maybe even more beautiful and lyrical. Field was more than just the father of the Nocturne and a huge influence on Chopin; I think this piece would probably get live concert time, were it more well known.
Josh,
My favorite period too! I have every recording you listed, they are all excellent, good choices for a potential explorer. Glad you joined us here, Sonic has given us a very nice start to this time period. :)
Sonic,
That's a nice haul you just made. I particularly enjoy the Gyrowetz SQ's and the Paisiello orchestral works. 2 names that I really need to look into are Romberg (who I only know as a cellist friend of Beethoven), and Mengal. I'll be popping right over to BRO to see if you've already snapped up the only copy of that disk. :-\
A name I didn't see at a glance in your list was Johann August Just (1750-1791). I picked up 6 of his fortepiano trios (Op 13) at BRO not long ago and found them to be very nicely constructed and entertaining, as well as being well-played on this disk (Walsingham Classics).
And a couple other names that ARE on your list, but always seem to get slighted: Ignaz Pleyel and Carl Stamitz. Anyone who hasn't heard anything by these two is well-served to give them a try. As a quick rec, the Chandos "Contemporaries of Mozart" series, usually with the London Mozart Players / Bamert is always a good choice. With these two composers, it will be one disk each of their symphonies, and that's a good place to start. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 19, 2007, 03:59:16 PM
Sonic,
That's a nice haul you just made. I particularly enjoy the Gyrowetz SQ's and the Paisiello orchestral works. 2 names that I really need to look into are Romberg (who I only know as a cellist friend of Beethoven), and Mengal. I'll be popping right over to BRO to see if you've already snapped up the only copy of that disk. :-\
A name I didn't see at a glance in your list was Johann August Just (1750-1791). I picked up 6 of his fortepiano trios (Op 13) at BRO not long ago and found them to be very nicely constructed and entertaining, as well as being well-played on this disk (Walsingham Classics).
And a couple other names that ARE on your list, but always seem to get slighted: Ignaz Pleyel and Carl Stamitz. Anyone who hasn't heard anything by these two is well-served to give them a try. As a quick rec, the Chandos "Contemporaries of Mozart" series, usually with the London Mozart Players / Bamert is always a good choice. With these two composers, it will be one disk each of their symphonies, and that's a good place to start. :)
Gurn - thanks for your input & great comments; those
Mengal Wind Quintets are interesting & even w/ a 'natural' horn! HIP! Not sure exactly if these works are transcriptions but are based on piano & violin chamber works of the composers mentioned - 'buy in' price is certainly cheap from BRO. I was listening to the SQs of
Gyrowetz before dinner (did not get through the three) - apparently Haydn was his 'hero' so quite good - guy lived into his late '80s, so I'm sure there may be other works of his to explore!
I agree w/ you completely on
Ignaz Pleyel & Carl Stamitz - own a number of their recordings and certainly can recommend a listening. Of course, this list will continue to expand! Believe that I've already added 10+ more composers myself, and have not even explored a few others. BOY, you know w/o modern day electronics, musical entertainment back then had to be 'live' and 'new' - can't even imagine how many people were employed at various levels to provide music to the populace, the church, and the royalty; so much more to be explored, discovered, and yet recorded - exciting, hey - :D
Great Stamitz disc of "orchestral quartets" with Naxos, and the gorgeous cello concerti on another Naxos CD!
I have also enjoyed the piano concerti of Ferdinand Ries and the symphonies of Johann Wenzel Kalliwoda, though they hit their peaks just after Beethoven died so I guess they don't count. :)
Quote from: SonicMan on April 19, 2007, 03:32:20 PM
Thanks all for the additions to this ever expanding list - just received a BRO order, in part looking for some MORE of these composers, so below are another half dozen (some are on the original list, but except for 1 CD of Romberg's music, these are all new recordings to me):
Georg Benda (1722-1705) - Sinfornias, Nos. 7-12; Naxos (8.553409)
Johann Gottlieb Graun (1702-1771) - Sinfonia + Violin & Viola Concs.; CPO (999 887-2)
Giovanni Paisiello (1741-1816) - Sinfonia, Overture, & Piano Concs.; Naxos (8.557031)
Well, just getting around to listening to the above composers listed in my previous post - so many of these guys seemed to be in orchestras of the times, and many composed! The numbers of their compositions is astounding - how many lost? How many to be re-discovered? How many are good by whose definition?
Paisiello Piano Concertos - apparently an opera composer who wrote a number of keyboard concertos, only two of which are on this Naxos disc - good review here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Sept04/Paisiello.htm) - would be interested in others' comments? :)
Graun - apparently a 'Brothers act' in Frederick 'The Great's' musical orchestra, which contained some great performers & composers, e.g. the Graun Bros, Quantz (the flute teacher of Frederick), a Benda, and CPE Bach - boy, what a combination - great musicians plus so many compositions, many yet to be discoved (if possible?).
Benda - an apparently 'amazing' long-lived generation of musicians-composers extending back into the 17th century to the present (in fact, the conductor of the orchestra, i.e. Christian Brenda, is a continuation of this familial tradition); these are 'short' Sinfonias in the late Baroque style; well played and quite enjoyable.
What amazes me about reading the insert notes on many of these composers is that they wrote dozens of these works, symphonies, concertos, etc. - not saying that these may be 'great' compositions, but just the thought of the manuscripts being found & the works recorded is still thrilling (at least to me) - :D
Sonic,
Well, in many cases, the manuscripts aren't even lost! In "Mozart's Symphonies", Neal Zaslaw, the editor in chief of the Neue Mozart Ausgabe (the new Köchel, actually) says that while he was going through manuscripts in Vienna looking for Mozart stuff hiding in the cracks, there were "thousands" of symphonies still in manuscript from that era that he went through. :o And they are still there.
Also (as an example), note in the liner notes on the Brandl Bassoon Quintets (not the piano ones), that the bassoonist actually worked from the manuscript to make a playable score and had it printed so they could play them. If he hadn't done, those works would still be unheard too!
The things we haven't heard are no less likely to be very good than the things we have heard. It's just that no one has got around to doing anything about it yet. :'(
8)
PS - I really like that Benda disk, and the Paisiello too. That concerto in g, the #4, is a peach! :)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on April 21, 2007, 07:09:03 PM
..........................
PS - I really like that Benda disk, and the Paisiello too. That concerto in g, the #4, is a peach! :)
Gurn - thanks for the great comments - completely agree that the 'works' not recorded are goin' to be just as enjoyable (if not more) than those we've already heard from these composers of this era - will look more into the
Benda Family & Paiseillo, the Benda's first 6 'Sinfonias' should be just as enjoyable as his 7-12! - :)
Dave,
Might we also add William Boyce to this list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Boyce
I have his Eight Symphonies (Thomas/Bournemouth Sinfonietta-CRD Records Ltd) and just love them.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=41045
Quote from: Bill on April 22, 2007, 05:36:08 AM
Dave,
Might we also add William Boyce to this list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Boyce
I have his Eight Symphonies (Thomas/Bournemouth Sinfonietta-CRD Records Ltd) and just love them.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=41045
Bill - he's already on the list in the OP, but thanks for the bio information and the CD recommendation; for those not knowing
William Boyce, I own another set of the same symphonies,
Hogwood w/ Acad Anc Music &
Trio Sonatas, 2-CD set on Hyperion w/
Peter Holman & the Parley of Instruments Baroque Orch; would love to hear about alternate or other suggestions - :) Dave
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6b/46/5c8a224128a0969614bf5010._AA240_.L.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00000300X.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_V46855763_AA130_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on April 22, 2007, 08:10:30 AM
Bill - he's already on the list in the OP, but thanks for the bio information and the CD recommendation; for those not knowing William Boyce, I own another set of the same symphonies, Hogwood w/ Acad Anc Music & Trio Sonatas, 2-CD set on Hyperion w/ Peter Holman & the Parley of Instruments Baroque Orch; would love to hear about alternate or other suggestions - :) Dave
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6b/46/5c8a224128a0969614bf5010._AA240_.L.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00000300X.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_V46855763_AA130_.jpg)
Sorry about that Dave....might help if I read more carefully. ;D:) What are the sonatas like?
Quote from: Bill on April 22, 2007, 08:21:07 AM
Sorry about that Dave....might help if I read more carefully. ;D:) What are the sonatas like?
Bill - no problem at all; I've not listen to the
Boyce Trio Sonatas in a while, but I recall enjoying them tremendously; from the liner notes, these were published in 1747 - the models being earlier 'Trio Sonatas' from the late Baroque period, such as those by Handel; so if you enjoy those works, these should also please you - apparently about half are more in a 'chamber' mode & the others in a 'concerto grosso' style, so a lot of variety - since these works appeared in this 'transitional' period, there is some early galant writing merged into the works, which to me makes them even more interesting.
Checked the Hyperion web site, but no longer listed, so must be OOP; as to reviews, the
Penguin Guide gives the set 3* (w/ a definite preference over the Standage recordings); and the
Third Ear gives them a quite positive recommendation (for them!). Finally, I have Holman & the Parley of Instruments in other recordings & enjoy them tremendously. If you can find the set for the price of one CD, then definitely give these compositions a try! Dave :D
Dave suggested I add these three composers here, so here I go! ;D 8) I'll just repaste my post from the other thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,622.msg12171/topicseen.html) with some very minor changes:
First of all, I'd like to mention Józef (Jozef) Elsner (Chopin's teacher) and Ignacy Feliks Dobrzyński (Dobrzynski, Chopin's colleague from Elsner's class, rumored to have helped Chopin with the orchestration of his Piano Concerti). Acte Préalable have released some of their string chamber works. I often complain about the performances on AP but these are recorded by the Wilanów String Quartet and by Camerata Vistula - two excellent ensembles. And anyway, if you decide to buy and don't like them, I will be more than happy to supply my mailing address (so far I only have these as radio recordings). ;D
(http://www.acteprealable.com/albums/cover/ap0067.jpg) (http://www.acteprealable.com/albums/cover/ap0048.jpg)
And another good performance but a slightly less interesting composer (Franciszek Lessel, Haydn's pupil):
(http://www.acteprealable.com/albums/cover/ap0006.jpg)
There was much more on Dobrzynski, Lessel and even Elsner in the Little-known Polish composers 966-1945 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,13129.msg391865/topicseen.html#msg391865) thread on the old GMG. Check it out.
Cheers,
Maciek
Quote from: MrOsa on April 28, 2007, 02:29:17 PM
First of all, I'd like to mention Józef (Jozef) Elsner (Chopin's teacher) and Ignacy Feliks Dobrzyński (Dobrzynski, Chopin's colleague from Elsner's class, rumored to have helped Chopin with the orchestration of his Piano Concerti)...............
Maciek - thanks for adding these names - these discs are now on my 'wish list' (if I can obtain them?) - and glad that you posted here - really would like this thread to continue on because of so many options! Dave :)
You're welcome! :)
If the typical sources don't work, you can try:
http://www.gigant.pl/ (http://www.gigant.pl/)
http://www.merlin.com.pl/ (http://www.merlin.com.pl/)
Or the Acte Prealable site:
http://www.acteprealable.com/ (http://www.acteprealable.com/)
(according to their info those CDs should be available here:
http://www.spinningdogrecords.com/ (http://www.spinningdogrecords.com/))
Oh, and one more thing. Unless you're very desperate, stay away from the AP "Polish Flute Music" disc (Tyszecka is a terrible pianist)!
Maciek
Andreas Romberg (1767-1821) - just received an additional volume of string quartets by this 'transitional' classic composer (shown below in a poor image - not much more seems available); trained by his father, a musician - Romberg was a 'touring' violin virtuoso by the age of 6 y/o, often playing w/ his cousin, Bernhard Romberg, a cellist. Travels included Italy, Paris, & Vienna, where Haydn took an interest in him & he 'concertized' w/ Beethoven; he finally returned to Hamburg, and in 1815 he succeeded Louis Spohr as court music director to Duke August in Gotha, Thuringia, dying there in 1821.
His first string quartets were published in the 1790s (Op. 1, Nos. 1-3 - first volume of this set; second volume includes an Op. 30 listing) - these are marvelous works which are performed well by the Leipzig SQ in glorious sound; the earlier works are more Haydnesque (and some might complain of them being more 'derivative' than the latter compositions - understandable?) - but just cannot give the MDG & CPO labels more praise in not only searching out this 'lost' repertoire but also in producing outstanding performances. Not much more seems to be available from this composer in checking a number of sites, including Arkiv Music (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=107504&name_role1=1&bcorder=1) - several discs w/ clarinet works (which I'd be very interested in hearing some comments!).
(http://www.klassika.info/Komponisten/Romberg_A/Bild.jpg) (http://www.mdg.de/cover/0963rcs.jpg) (http://www.mdg.de/cover/1026rc.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on April 22, 2007, 08:10:30 AM
Bill - he's already on the list in the OP, but thanks for the bio information and the CD recommendation; for those not knowing William Boyce, I own another set of the same symphonies, Hogwood w/ Acad Anc Music & Trio Sonatas, 2-CD set on Hyperion w/ Peter Holman & the Parley of Instruments Baroque Orch; would love to hear about alternate or other suggestions - :) Dave
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6b/46/5c8a224128a0969614bf5010._AA240_.L.jpg) (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00000300X.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_V46855763_AA130_.jpg)
The Boyce symphonies are available on Naxos, performed by the Aradia Ensemble. This is one of the best period ensembles I have ever heard. They use a small group, with just a few of each instrument. If I recall, their string section is basically a double string quartet. But the clarity of their tone is quite astounding. I have made it a point to acquire all of their discs. The one that sold me was their Rinaldo, also on Naxos.
(http://www.naxos.com/images/cds/557278.gif) (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.557278)
Quote from: SonicMan on April 13, 2007, 07:18:40 PM
Giuliani, Mauro (1781- 2829)**
Only the good die young, poor Mauro ;D
Quote from: Scriptavolant on May 24, 2007, 05:06:06 PM
Only the good die young, poor Mauro ;D
Sciptavolant - thanks for picking up that obvious mistake - ;D Made an edit to the OP - took a while to put all of that info together, so glad that only a few have found my errors - :D Dave
Whilst this thread has raised quite a number of worthy composers, I am surprised that two of the founders of the Romantic tradition have not so far been mentioned, i.e. Fanny and Felix Mendelssohn. Between them they invented the 'song without words', Fanny probably as 'senior partner' supplying the idea and Felix the name. This form became much in vogue, but let's give credit where it is due. They began composing around 1821 and had written a considerable amount by the time of Beethoven's death.
Quote from: Ten thumbs on May 29, 2007, 12:41:14 PM
Whilst this thread has raised quite a number of worthy composers, I am surprised that two of the founders of the Romantic tradition have not so far been mentioned, i.e. Fanny and Felix Mendelssohn. Between them they invented the 'song without words', Fanny probably as 'senior partner' supplying the idea and Felix the name. This form became much in vogue, but let's give credit where it is due. They began composing around 1821 and had written a considerable amount by the time of Beethoven's death.
Ten Thumbs - no need to be surprised; this is not a defined category, and the Mendelssohn sibs certainly are a worthy consideration (I own a considerable amount of Felix's music); but once you start getting into those being born in the early 19th century, many could be added - not a big problem, but the main intention of the thread was for these more 'transitional' composers (don't have a good definition, though) - thanks for the input - :)
BTW, as a follow-up to the recent
Romberg post, now listenting to his
Clarinet Quintet w/ Thea King & the Britten SQ on the bargin Helios label; interesting combination of composers going into the early 20th century - the Romberg work is outstanding - :D
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/419YQ87ASVL._AA240_.jpg)
Just picked up a copy of Fanfare which I've not looked at for quite a while - there was a CD of bassoon works, which was well reviewed by a composer that I had not heard of before; he's just a little early for this thread, but was certainly composing in the first half of the 18th century and overlapped many others in the original listing - I've not yet bought any of his recordings, but the one mentioned (and several others w/ flute & harpsichord shown on Amazon) certainly sound interesting:
Joseph Bodin de Boismortier (1689 - 1755) - Biography HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bodin_de_Boismortier) - would appreciated any thoughts or comments - thanks! :D
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BXQQX2EDL._AA240_.jpg) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Boismortier.jpg)
From these composers we would have - as it happened to be in the old forum - material for separate threads for many of them. Right now I'm listening to the magnificent second movement of Rejcha's F major symphony. A true delight, and a lesson of scoring.
Can anyone recommend some mid-late classical symphonists? So far my impressions have been:
Mysliveček: enjoyable if lightweight
Boccherini: ditto, with melodic appeal, but less interesting than his works in other forms
Dittersdorf: negative, but apparently this is the fault of the Naxos performances
Vanhal: VERY pleased with this guy, he is the nearest to approaching Haydn in wit and depth
I suspect my reaction to Vanhal was partly due to the performances (Concerto Köln), which were near ideal.
I'm almost 100% certain this isn't what you're looking for, but there's a nice 2CD set with Jan Krenz conducting symphonies by Mozart, as well as Wojciech Dankowski (ca. 1760 - 1800 or later), Antoni Milwid (1755 - 1837) and Ignacy Feliks Dobrzyński (1807 - 1867):
(http://merlin.pl/Dyrygent-Conductor_Polska-Orkiestra-Radiowa,images_product,29,PRCD891892.jpg) (http://merlin.pl/Dyrygent-Conductor_Polska-Orkiestra-Radiowa/browse/product/4,494662.html)
There's also a PMC CD with "Polish Symphonies": two anonymous symphonies from the 1750s-60s, as well symphonies by Jan Wański (ca 1760 - 1821 or later) and Wojciech Dankowski.
(http://www.promusicacamerata.pl/en/images/cd/PMC002.jpg) (http://www.promusicacamerata.pl/en/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=29)
And the only reason I had to mention these is that they are both on my wishlist, and maybe someone will drop by and comment (so that I can move them up in queue, or abandon the idea altogether).
Quote from: Ten thumbs on May 29, 2007, 12:41:14 PM
I am surprised that two of the founders of the Romantic tradition have not so far been mentioned, i.e. Fanny and Felix Mendelssohn.
Besides the fact this thread specifically prohibited "big" composers from being mentioned, i'd argue whether either of them had any role in the founding of anything whatsoever, Fanny in particular, who's name doesn't deserve to be mentioned next to that of her brother, a composer with whom i already have a few reservations.
Quote from: Lethe on September 29, 2008, 09:02:55 PM
Vanhal: VERY pleased with this guy, he is the nearest to approaching Haydn in wit and depth
I suspect my reaction to Vanhal was partly due to the performances (Concerto Köln), which were near ideal.
The Concerto Köln can make anything sound good, but i think this composer is actually quite decent, at least with his symphonic work. I tried some of his chamber music that wasn't too impressed with that. A nice complement if you like early Haydn.
Quote from: Lethe on September 29, 2008, 09:02:55 PMDittersdorf: negative, but apparently this is the fault of the Naxos performances
I find
Sinfonias on Ovid's Metamorphoses on Naxos enjoyable. :)
I have grown very fond of Dittersdorf's music. It's like the combination of Haydn and Mozart.
Quote from: Lethe on September 29, 2008, 09:02:55 PMVanhal: VERY pleased with this guy, he is the nearest to approaching Haydn in wit and depth.
Yeah, Vanhal is great!
Quote from: Lethe on September 29, 2008, 09:02:55 PM
Can anyone recommend some mid-late classical symphonists? So far my impressions have been:
Mysliveček: enjoyable if lightweight
Boccherini: ditto, with melodic appeal, but less interesting than his works in other forms
Dittersdorf: negative, but apparently this is the fault of the Naxos performances
Vanhal: VERY pleased with this guy, he is the nearest to approaching Haydn in wit and depth
Have you looked into Krommer? Besides his 3 nice clarinet concertos on Naxos and his 2 equally fine oboe concertos (e.g. Sarah Francis on Hyperion/Helios), my favourite are his 2 symphonies op. 40 & 102 (Bamert/London Mozart Players on Chandos).
I sampled lots of the discs from Chandos' "Contemporaries of Mozart" series, but ended up liking Krommer best. Another interesting one from this series imho is the disc with the symphonies of Wranitzky.
Quote from: Lethe on September 29, 2008, 09:02:55 PM
Can anyone recommend some mid-late classical symphonists?
Definitely try the following:
Jan Vaclav Vorisek - Symphony in D
Juan Crisóstomo Arriaga - Symphony in d
Norbert Burgmüller - Symphony No.2 in D
Norbert Burgmüller - Overture in F
Not a symphony, but you should also try Burgmüller's 4th String Quartet. It's one of the great forgotten masterpieces, and i'm not trying to exaggerate.
After consulting a list on the ever useful Wikipedia, I noticed two others who tend to be mentioned in the same breath as Vanhal and Krommer: Kraus and Pleyel. I assume that these two are "big" enough to warrant investigation?
Quote from: sTisTi on September 30, 2008, 11:11:19 AM
Have you looked into Krommer? Besides his 3 nice clarinet concertos on Naxos and his 2 equally fine oboe concertos (e.g. Sarah Francis on Hyperion/Helios), my favourite are his 2 symphonies op. 40 & 102 (Bamert/London Mozart Players on Chandos).
I sampled lots of the discs from Chandos' "Contemporaries of Mozart" series, but ended up liking Krommer best. Another interesting one from this series imho is the disc with the symphonies of Wranitzky.
He is someone I have seen mentioned a lot, but haven't heard any of his music - time for me to change that, thanks :)
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 30, 2008, 11:44:57 AM
Definitely try the following:
Jan Vaclav Vorisek - Symphony in D
Juan Crisóstomo Arriaga - Symphony in d
Norbert Burgmüller - Symphony No.2 in D
Norbert Burgmüller - Overture in F
Not a symphony, but you should also try Burgmüller's 4th String Quartet. It's one of the great forgotten masterpieces, and i'm not trying to exaggerate.
Danke, those will be purchased next time I do a CD order. I don't think I've even heard of the second two composers before ;D
Quote from: Lethe on September 30, 2008, 07:25:51 PM
After consulting a list on the ever useful Wikipedia, I noticed two others who tend to be mentioned in the same breath as Vanhal and Krommer: Kraus and Pleyel. I assume that these two are "big" enough to warrant investigation?
I don't know about Pleyel, but Kraus is pretty good too, better then Vanhal i think. Concerto Köln has two recordings of his symphonies out, can't go wrong with that.
Quote from: Lethe on September 30, 2008, 07:25:51 PM
I don't think I've even heard of the second two composers before ;D
I've seen some talk of Arriaga here but nobody ever mentions Burgmüller. It's a shame since i feel he's the best of the lot as far as late classical, early romantic minor composers go. He's like a lesser version of Schubert, and in fact it was Schumann who said that no other early death besides that of Schubert himself was as tragic as that of Burgmüller. He could have been one of the greats had he lived longer.
I agree that Kraus is pretty good. Don't know about the others, haven't heard them.
Kraus is one of those composers I have planned to check out but there is so much everything... ...I doubt he could be better than Vanhal, equal perhaps... ...but what can I know.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 30, 2008, 07:58:53 PM
I've seen some talk of Arriaga here but nobody ever mentions Burgmüller. r. .
I had never heard of
Burgmüller. Is there even recordings of his music around?
EDIT: there is in fact. Unfortunately not on budget labels like Naxos (who the hell pays full price for these
minor composers?".
Wiki: Norbert Burgmüller (Düsseldorf, February 8, 1810 – Aachen, May 7, 1836) Damn, he died young! :'(
Quote from: Lethe on September 30, 2008, 07:25:51 PM
After consulting a list on the ever useful Wikipedia, I noticed two others who tend to be mentioned in the same breath as Vanhal and Krommer: Kraus and Pleyel. I assume that these two are "big" enough to warrant investigation?.................
Sara - all of the composers above are worth hearing, and purchasing if you enjoy the music! :D
Joseph Kraus, although born in Germany was known as the
Swedish Mozart because he spent his short adult life in Sweden - his dates pretty much match those of Mozart, i.e. 1756-1792; I own about a half dozen discs of his music including 3 CDs of Symphonies on Naxos w/ Sundkvist & the Swedish CO.
Franz Krommer - I was amazed in checking my database that I have nearly a dozen discs by this composer but all wind music (chamber & concertos), and it is good - he did write symphonies, but I'm not familiar w/ these compositions (at least not yet!).
Ignaz Pleyel - both a composer & musical publisher (known more the latter probably later in his life) - do have 2 CDs of his symphonies, one on Naxos & the other on Chandos w/ Bamert; both quite good - his chamber works are excellent, too.
Johann Vanhal - as w/ Pleyel, a couple of symphonic discs (actually same labels) - these are quite good & have been well lauded on this forum.
Good luck in your listening & selections - :) Dave
Danke :) And glad to see this thread semi-alive again :D
Quote from: SonicMan on October 01, 2008, 06:54:48 AM
Franz Krommer - I was amazed in checking my database that I have nearly a dozen discs by this composer but all wind music (chamber & concertos), and it is good - he did write symphonies, but I'm not familiar w/ these compositions (at least not yet!).
His experience with composing for wind instruments also shows in his symphonies - he really puts the clarinets, oboes etc. to good use ;D
But seriously, his symphonies are really astonishingly good - I listened to them quite often after I bought the Bamert/London Mozart Players disc and have been amazed by their quality and inventiveness time and time again. It's really baffling how these works have managed to remain virtually unknown.
bump this thread
Quote from: snyprrr on June 25, 2009, 11:47:21 AM
bump this thread
Snyprrr - thanks for the bump! Plenty of great information from those 'old' links - hope others will enjoy - Dave :D
(http://www.railbirds.com/gallery/2009/01/11614bump.jpg)
:o :o :o
Quote from: SonicMan on June 25, 2009, 02:36:13 PM
Snyprrr - thanks for the bump! Plenty of great information from those 'old' links - hope others will enjoy - Dave :D
(http://www.railbirds.com/gallery/2009/01/11614bump.jpg)
How did you get a photo of my wife's chest?
Quote from: Bulldog on June 28, 2009, 12:25:50 PM
How did you get a photo of my wife's chest?
Don - now I'm jealous! ;D Did not know that you were married to
Dolly Parton! ;) :D
(http://www.ratewall.com/cpics/446c04a9-8af8-4438-a9fe-1d8052bfa7fb_Dolly%20Parton%206.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on June 30, 2009, 03:42:59 PM
Don - now I'm jealous! ;D Did not know that you were married to Dolly Parton! ;) :D
(http://www.ratewall.com/cpics/446c04a9-8af8-4438-a9fe-1d8052bfa7fb_Dolly%20Parton%206.jpg)
The basic differences between my wife and Dolly Parton are that Dolly has more money and a plastic face.
One shouls add Eberle, one of whose symphonies were performed in a double with Beethovens eroica on its premiere, and whose works (the couple of them I've heard) have impressed me, as well as Willms, the recently reissued Archiv disc (reissued on Brilliant) is quite impressive.
My first post, in appreciation of this thread in particular. Just listened online to Pleyel clarinet concertos. Terrific, thanks for your efforts.
I just heard Kuhlau's Elisa Overture on the radio. An interesting piece that sounds like a mixture of Weber (the horns reminiscent of Der Freischutz and Oberon), Suppe (trumpet calls reminisent of Light Cavalry), and Mendelssohn (crispness of orchestration).
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on September 26, 2016, 07:51:44 AM
I just heard Kuhlau's Elisa Overture on the radio. An interesting piece that sounds like a mixture of Weber (the horns reminiscent of Der Freischutz and Oberon), Suppe (trumpet calls reminisent of Light Cavalry), and Mendelssohn (crispness of orchestration).
It's on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/v/Mc_C3UolcKQ
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 26, 2016, 08:06:26 AM
It's on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/v/Mc_C3UolcKQ
Sarge
Thanks.
ALmost everything you want is on youtube and.or spotify now it seems.
Speaking of Kuhlua have any seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrcY3ELN2pk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrcY3ELN2pk)
Quote from: arpeggio on September 26, 2016, 10:02:59 AM
Speaking of Kuhlua have any seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrcY3ELN2pk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrcY3ELN2pk)
Yes, but original Danish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPOnUJeT8tI