GMG Classical Music Forum

You know you wanna :) Includes symphonic poems and concert overtures.

Sibelius - The Bard
Sibelius - Luonnotar
Sibelius - Pohjola's Daughter
Sibelius - Snöfrid
Sibelius - The Oceanides
Berlioz - Roman Carnival Overture
Dvořák - The Noon Witch
Strauss - Don Quixote
Bax - Tintagel
Tchaikovsky - Francesca da Rimini

The tone poems are my favourite area of Sibelius's work. It is probably heresy to rate them above the symphonies, but they feel more naturally organic to me with the absence of the formal requirements of a symphony :)

I primerally want to find some outside the big names to look into.

Strauss: Don Quixotte

Stravinsky: The songt of the nightingale

Schönberg: Verklärte Nacht

Sibelius: Tapiola

Rachmaninov: The Island of the Death

Strauss: Don Juan

Dvorak: The Water Goblin

Liszt: Heroide Funebre

Smetana: Vltava

Vincent d'Indy: Ishtar

Mussorgsky - Night on the Bald Mountain
Tchaikovsky - Francesca da Rimini
Scriabin - Promethee
Scriabin - Le Poeme de l'Extase
Sibelius - Tapiola
Rachmaninov - Isle of the Dead
Dvorak - The Water Goblin
Janacek - Taras Bulba
Ravel - La Valse
Revueltas - Sensemaya

A couple not mentioned so far:

Zemlinsky--Die Seejungfrau (The Mermaid)
Delius--Over the Hills and Far Away
Novak--Lady Godiva (technically an overture, but essentially an extended tone poem)

Ian Sibelius: Swan of Tuonela

Richard Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel

Malipiero: Sinfonia del Mare

Debussy: La Mer, Printemps

Schönberg: Verklärte Nacht

Liszt's Dante Symphony (think there's a sonata too...) and his Faust Symphony...

(Plus whatever the contents are on Brilliant's boxed set of Liszt's tone poems...)

There is Eine Alpensinfinie and then there is everything else, with Ein Heldenleben , Death and Transfiguration a close second and third.

Quote from: Lethe on June 16, 2007, 01:24:41 AM
The tone poems are my favourite area of Sibelius's work. It is probably heresy to rate them above the symphonies, but they feel more naturally organic to me with the absence of the formal requirements of a symphony :)

I agree. I am not a Sibelius fan but he was good in tone poems.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 07:04:47 AM
I agree. I am not a Sibelius fan but he was good in tone poems.

As an Elgar fan, I figured YOU of all people would be able to appreciate the subtle complexity of Sibelius's symphonies. I guess I was wrong.  :-\

Quote from: Kullervo on June 16, 2007, 10:16:15 AM
As an Elgar fan, I figured YOU of all people would be able to appreciate the subtle complexity of Sibelius's symphonies. I guess I was wrong.  :-\

I used to like Sibelius before I really started to listen to classical music. Nowadays I find his symphonies simple and orchestrated in an annoying way.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 10:55:31 AM
I used to like Sibelius before I really started to listen to classical music. Nowadays I find his symphonies simple and orchestrated in an annoying way.

Christ...you only like "complex" music don't you. Simple music can be very emotionally touching too, you know.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 10:55:31 AM
I used to like Sibelius before I really started to listen to classical music. Nowadays I find his symphonies simple and orchestrated in an annoying way.

All right. Say what you will about his orchestration, but his symphonies are not simple. It's not a matter of taste, it's a fact. I'll leave it at that for the sake of the thread.

Quote from: Bonehelm on June 16, 2007, 11:24:24 AM
Christ...you only like "complex" music don't you. Simple music can be very emotionally touching too, you know.

I like simple music too.  ;)

Quote from: Kullervo on June 16, 2007, 11:27:03 AM
All right. Say what you will about his orchestration, but his symphonies are not simple. It's not a matter of taste, it's a fact. I'll leave it at that for the sake of the thread.

Sibelius has some complexity. I admit that.

Quote from: Lethe on June 16, 2007, 01:24:41 AM
I primerally want to find some outside the big names to look into.

Some of my favorites, off the beaten path:

Havergal Brian - In Memoriam
Smetana - Richard III
Smetana - Wallenstein's Camp
Smetana - Hakon Jarl
Tchaikovsky - Voyevode
Tchaikovsky - The Tempest
Nielsen - Saga-Drøm
Nielsen - Pan og Syrinx

Sarge

Mikolajus Konstantinas Čiurlionis - Jūra (The Sea)

Mikolajus Konstantinas Čiurlionis - Miške (In the Forest)

Richard Strauss - Tod und Verklärung

Sibelius - Tapiola

Dvořák : The Noonday Witch
Dvorak :  The Water Goblin
Elgar : Falstaff
Rachmaninov: The Isle Of The Dead
Ravel : La Valse
Sibelius: Tapiola
Strauss : Also Sprach Zarathustra
Strauss : Metamorphosen
Tchaikovsky - Francesca da Rimini
Vaughan-Williams : Fantasia On A Theme Of Thomas Tallis

Tchaikovsky 1812 overture
Tchaikovsky Romeo and Juliet fantasy overture
Liszt Les Preludes
Strauss Also sparch Zarathustra
Beethoven Egmont overture
Mozart Marriage of Figaro overture
Smetana Ma Vlast

etc...I know the LvB and Mozart aren't concert overtures, but what the hey  :P

i would say none, since i couldn't remember which ones are tone poems

but this page gave me a few ideas...

Poem of Ecstasy, Prometheus, La Mer, Nocturnes and Isle of the Dead. That's 10, right?

Strauss       : Ein Heldenleben
Strauss       : Also spracht Zarathoustra
Strauss       : Till Eulenspiegel
Strauss       : Death and transfiguration
Saint-Saëns : Danse macabre
Liszt           : Tasso. Lamento i triunfo
Liszt           : Hungaria
beethoven   : Egmont
Borodin        : In the steppes of central Asia
Nielsen        : Helios

No particular order, except the 1st four.
I'm mad about Strauss

Someone had already listed my other poems but my absolute favorite (can listen to it over and over again) is

Dawn on the Moscow River (overture to Mussorgsky's opera Khovanshchina).  Conducted by Gergiev.

Guess that's not a tone poem but I don't care. 

Someone, please tell me you finally listened to this gorgeous music.

It's a beautiful piece and, rather strangely, it makes a bigger impact in concert. I say 'strangely', because the piece never rises above mf and the orchestra never plays all at once. It's almost chamber music.

Has anyone heard, and perhaps like it as much as I do; the Symphonic Poeme Gada Meilin composer Huguang Xin

Chinese Warlords, Peasants Revolt....must see the movie sometime.

A truly landscape painting of Ancient China, and a theme to die for  ;D

Quote from: Anne on June 17, 2007, 09:13:50 AM
Someone had already listed my other poems but my absolute favorite (can listen to it over and over again) is

Dawn on the Moscow River (overture to Mussorgsky's opera Khovanshchina).  Condusted by Gergiev.

Guess that's not a tone poem but I don't care. 

Someone, please tell me you finally listened to this gorgeous music.

Yes, gorgeous, but I think the Khovantchina Act IV Entr'acte, Galitsin's Journey, is even more impressive.

Sarge

Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on June 17, 2007, 10:20:49 AM
Has anyone heard, and perhaps like it as much as I do; the Symphonic Poeme Gada Meilin composer Huguang Xin

That sounds interesting, thanks, I'll keep it in mind if I run across some cheaper copy since there seem to be two recordings of which is in print guess how many.

That is very beautiful also.  There are many beautiful pieces of music in that opera which is why it is my favorite of all operas.

Have you seen the Gergiev DVD?  It is wonderful.  Costumes and scenery are so appropriate for that time in history.  The dance of the Persian slaves would make Harry like that opera.   ;D  ;D

Debussy: Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun
Bax: Tintagel
Dukas: The Scocerer's Apprentice
Respighi: The Fountains of Rome
Sibelius: The Swan of Tuonela
Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks
Rachmaninoff: The Isle Of The Dead

That's not 10, but those were the ones the popped instantly to my mind. They are certainly not all of the tone poems that I could list, or that I love to hear. 

R. Strauss - Also sprach Zarathustra
Sibelius - Pohjola's Daughter
Dvorak - The Golden Spinning Wheel
Liszt - Les Preludes
Dvorak - The Water Goblin
Sibelius - The Bard
R. Strauss - Tod und Verklärung
Tsjaikovskij - The Tempest
Honegger - Pacific 231
Liszt - Mazeppa

Quote from: Anne on June 17, 2007, 07:29:15 PM
Have you seen the Gergiev DVD?

No, I haven't. In fact I don't have the opera on CD either. I've been making do with my old set of LPs: a Bolshoi production conducted by Boris Khaikin on Melodiya. Your post reminded me I need to get a digital version.

Sarge

(http://www.warnerclassics.com/assets/catalogue/images/082564/6022120.jpg)
Antonín Dvorák

The Golden Spinning Wheel, Op. 109
The Noon Witch, Op. 108
The Water Goblin, Op. 107
The Wild Dove, Op. 110

Nikolaus Harnoncourt
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra

p.s. My version has a different cover art.

Mussorgsky – A Night on Bare Mountain
Mendelssohn  -  Fingal's Cave
Rachmaninov – Isle of the Dead
Liszt – Totentanz
Saint-Saens – Danse Macabre
Franck – Le Chausseur Maudit
Strauss – Eine Alpensinfinie
Strauss – Also Sprach
Rimsky-Korsakov - Night on Mount Triglav
Borodin - In the Steppes of Central Asia

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on June 17, 2007, 09:41:04 AM
It's a beautiful piece and, rather strangely, it makes a bigger impact in concert. I say 'strangely', because the piece never rises above mf and the orchestra never plays all at once. It's almost chamber music.

Thanks for replying.  I had never thought of it as sounding like chamber music but now that you mention it, I agree!  I hear new things constantly in it and now want to hear how various sections of the orchestra play against and with each other.  At the end of the overture there is a huge, loud, crashing, vicious chord that separates the light and beautiful overture from the grim opera proper.  What masterpiece from a composer who, at the end of his life, was in his cups most of the time and needed help to go home.  That one photograph of Mussorgsky with his red nose and hair askew and wearing that green shirt has so much character.  It is my favorite.

Yes, that portrait is famous. Its painter is one of the best artists to have come out of Russia.

Speaking of paintings, Böcklin's has inspired Rachmaninoff's Isle of the Dead, which appears to be a favourite of many here!
(http://www.stmoroky.com/reviews/gallery/bocklin/iotd~1.jpg)

Thanks for all the off the beaten track recommendations. I've avoided Liszt's poems thus far as while they are overall considered slightly weak, I'm willing to give them a try, but never knew which ones to start which (some have to be worse than others). I am familiar with the two symphonies already. There seems to be no consensus on which are the better ones so I may just jump in, hehe.

Ones that sound interesting: Tchaikovsky's lesser-known ones, Korsakov, Frank, Novak, Zemlinsky, d'Indy, Revueltas, Smetana's lesser-known ones, Čiurlionis... um, a ton basically, thanks :D

Quote from: Lethe on June 19, 2007, 06:27:19 AM
Thanks for all the off the beaten track recommendations. I've avoided Liszt's poems thus far as while they are overall considered slightly weak, I'm willing to give them a try, but never knew which ones to start which (some have to be worse than others). I am familiar with the two symphonies already. There seems to be no consensus on which are the better ones so I may just jump in, hehe.

Ones that sound interesting: Tchaikovsky's lesser-known ones, Korsakov, Frank, Novak, Zemlinsky, d'Indy, Revueltas, Smetana's lesser-known ones, Čiurlionis... um, a ton basically, thanks :D

I think the Brilliant set is cheap enough to get all the Liszt tone poems in one fell swoop.

Glad to see someone mentioned Bax's Tintagel. I'll see that and raise you a November Woods.

Strauss: Also sprach Zarathustra
Strauss: Metamorphosen
Strauss: Tod und Verklärung
Wagner: Overture to Der fliegende Holländer
Mahler: Totenfeier  ;)

Saint-Saens: Le jeunesse d'Hercule;

Liszt: Hunnenschlacht;

Duparc: Lenore;

Elgar: Sospiri;

Sibelius: Night Ride and Sunrise;

Debussy: Jeux;

Reger: Three Boecklin tone poems;

Nielsen: Helios overture;

Mendelssohn: Ruy Blas;

Markevitch: L' Envol d' Icare.

My, current, Top 10, pop pickers ;D

Tchaikovsky, Romeo and Juliet
Dvorák, The Golden Spinning Wheel
Dvorák, The Noon Witch
Saint-Saëns, Danse Macabre
Harty, With the Wild Geese
Debussy, La Mer
Janacek, Taras Bulba
Respighi, Trittico botticelliano
Sibelius, Tapiola
Rey, Türkiye

Quote from: Hector on June 19, 2007, 07:18:04 AM
Reger: Three Boecklin tone poems;

That sounds interesting, have you got some recommendation?

There is a recording of the Tchaikovsky Romeo and Juliet Overture arranged as a duet. It is on Chandos, Neme Jarvi conducted. Somehow the recording slipped through my hands and I have right now just re-ordered it. It has been unobtainable for some time...so, a nice prompt for me.

Anyway....tone poems; nice to see the genre definition stretched. Whenever I read the term, I automatically think of the Richard Strauss pieces which provide terrific entertainment. Of them all I most revel in the 'Alpine Symphony'. A good test to my sound equipment and a real sense of a journey.

I enjoy the weather being expressed in music. I see someone has already mentioned The Flying Dutchman overture, the whip of the wind, the sound of a storm, like a fulfilling meal in itself. The Four Sea Interludes from Peter Grimes, though not in the classic format of the term, they are wonderful evocations of the sea in its various moods....has a storm ever been better captured? Even the eye of the storm with its passing but brooding calm is brought to spine tingling life.

Mike

At the start of Die Walkure we hear a storm as Hunding searches for shelter.

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on June 18, 2007, 06:23:19 PM
Yes, that portrait is famous. Its painter is one of the best artists to have come out of Russia.

Speaking of paintings, Böcklin's has inspired Rachmaninoff's Isle of the Dead, which appears to be a favourite of many here!
(http://www.stmoroky.com/reviews/gallery/bocklin/iotd~1.jpg)

Yes, that Bocklin "Isle of the Dead" painting is one of my favorites also.  Rachmaninoff's "Isle of the Dead" is the only Rachmaninoff music that I like so far.  Still need to seriously listen to "Vespers" and "The Bells."  I'm not a Rachmaninoff fan.  Do you like his music?

Who was the painter of Mussorgsky's portrait?  I have never run across his name.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/df/Mussorgsky_by_repin.jpg/460px-Mussorgsky_by_repin.jpg)



Ilya Repin, probably the greatest russian painter of his time. This link has superb examples of his art:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Repin

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on June 22, 2007, 03:59:28 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/df/Mussorgsky_by_repin.jpg/460px-Mussorgsky_by_repin.jpg)



Ilya Repin, probably the greatest russian painter of his time. This link has superb examples of his art:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Repin

Thank you!  Much appreciated.  Thanks for the URL also.

Quote from: Anne on June 21, 2007, 06:45:21 PM
At the start of Die Walkure we hear a storm as Hunding searches for shelter.

Since Act I of Die Walkure takes place in "Hundings Haus", I don't think he would have to search for shelter too long. I guess he knew where he lived.
You are referring to Siegmunds search for shelter, which he finds courtesy of Sieglinde.

Strauss' "Don Juan".
Especially in the hands of a Straussian of the caliber of Fritz Reiner conducting the CSO.
The Dons final orgasm is musically depicted, as no other conductor depicts it. Ravishingly beautiful orchestral tone, precision and clarity.
For me, there is NO other.

Quote from: Iago on June 22, 2007, 02:13:52 PM
Since Act I of Die Walkure takes place in "Hundings Haus", I don't think he would have to search for shelter too long. I guess he knew where he lived.
You are referring to Siegmunds search for shelter, which he finds courtesy of Sieglinde.

Thanks for the correction, Iago.

1. Sibelius - Tapiola
1. Sibelius - The Wood Nymph
1. Sibelius - Finlandia
4. Sibelius - The Swan of Tuonela
5-10. ?

Genious Sibelius is so great @ tone poems. I haven't listened to much to his other tone poems, but thousand of times to the above mentioned. It's especially sad the wood nymph is so unknown to lots of people. Its such a strong tone poem with a dramatic solution!

My next try will be night ride and sunrise. Have listened to it once, a very modern piece.

I've counted cycles as one.  I realize that brings the total to 18, but . . .

Rachmaninoff - Isle of the Dead

Sibelius - Lemminkainen Suites

Debussy - La Mer

Ravel - Rapsodie Espagnole

Mayuzumi - Samsara

Dukas - The Sorceror's Apprentice

Borodin - In the Steppes of Central Asia

Smetana - Ma Vlast

Respighi - Pines of Rome

Bax - Tintagel

There are some things called overtures which might qualify, notably Mendelssohn's Hebrides.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 16, 2007, 10:55:31 AM
I used to like Sibelius before I really started to listen to classical music. Nowadays I find his symphonies simple and orchestrated in an annoying way.

Only the simple-minded view complexity as a virtue.  Your inability to grasp Sibelius is a lamentable deficiency.  Mistakenly locating the deficiency in Sibelius's music is a regrettable consequence of arrogance.  As for annoying....


Top 10 tone poems:  pick any ten by Sibelius.  Include Luonnotar, Pohjola's Daughter, Tapiola, and Oceanides.

Quote from: Anne on June 21, 2007, 06:56:42 PM
Yes, that Bocklin "Isle of the Dead" painting is one of my favorites also.  Rachmaninoff's "Isle of the Dead" is the only Rachmaninoff music that I like so far.  Still need to seriously listen to "Vespers" and "The Bells."  I'm not a Rachmaninoff fan.  Do you like his music?

Who was the painter of Mussorgsky's portrait?  I have never run across his name.

Isle of the Dead owns!! That would be my nº1.
La mer, Filandia are up there too.

Anne try Rach's trio elegiaque, you might like those, a bit dark as well, amazing pieces.

Sergei Rachmaninov - Isle of the Dead

Havergal Brian - Elegy

Richard Strauss - Also Sprach Zarathustra

Mieczyslaw Karlowicz - Stanislaw and Anna Oswiecim

Frederick Delius - On Hearing The First Cuckoo In Spring

Rued Langgaard - Music of the Spheres

Erich Wolfgang Korngold - Sursum Corda

Ludwig van Beethoven - Egmont Overture

Ottorino Respighi - Pini di Roma

Robert Schumann - Manfred Overture

I'd like to add David Maslanka's A Child's Garden of Dreams. Although it is a Wind ensemble piece, I'm sure it qualifies as a tone poem. Has anyone hear heard it?

Hi,

with great pleasure I listen to Sergej Rachmaninoff - The Isle of the Dead and I was happy to have found it. One more tone poem, a single piece of music for big orchestras, a kind of program music which carries a specific picture. Which is maybe like 10 minutes or more in length.

Maybe there are more? Many more? And what are they telling? I'm also thinking of pieces which occur in suites or symphonies. E.g. like the Sibelius Swan of Tuonela. Music that has a very clear program.

To date I know the Sibelius ones and the Rachmaninoff. Just examples:

Sibelius - Tapiola - [Forest (god)] - HIS BEST WORK
Sibelius - The wood nymph - [love, drama (it's probably the same, anyway)]
Rachmaninoff also known as Rakhmaninov - Isle of the Dead [Isle of the dead [image (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Bocklin_isle_of_the_dead_NY.jpg)]]

EDIT: Okay, Wikipedia wins again. All has been written. We can close the forum :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_poem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symphonic_poems
Anyway, what to try next and why, what's it about?

Among my favorites are a totally new discovery, the last tone poems of Mieczyslaw Karlowicz. You might want to sample the new Naxos release (excellent performances!) to try them out - my particular favorite is "Episode at a Masquerade", which manages the nifty trick of being both exuberant and fun, and a heart-tugging tragedy, at the same time.

If you're willing to head back in time, there is Bedrich Smetana to discover. You'll love Richard Strauss, Josef Suk (Asrael, Summer's Tale and Ripening - part of a series in which Suk began to cope with the sudden deaths of his wife and father-in-law), and Dvorak's cycle of four tone poems, too. :)

Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2008, 09:12:40 PM
Among my favorites are a totally new discovery, the last tone poems of Mieczyslaw Karlowicz. You might want to sample the new Naxos release (excellent performances!) to try them out - my particular favorite is "Episode at a Masquerade", which manages the nifty trick of being both exuberant and fun, and a heart-tugging tragedy, at the same time.

Yes yes yes! He wrote six, and they all have their beauties. I have the Noseda/Tortelier series on Chandos. And some Polish readings.

A recent discovery of mine is Vasily Sergeyevich Kalinnikov. His symphonies are very good, but my favourite pieces by him are the Epic Poem, The Nymphs and The Cedar And The Palm. Little known gems which all come highly reccomended.

TTFN.
Me.

Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2008, 09:12:40 PM
and Dvorak's cycle of four tone poems, too. :)

There are actually five, but it's good that you ignore the fifth, The Hero's Song. The first four are my favourite Dvořák overall. They were all writen in a sequel in 1896-97: The Water Goblin, The Noon Witch, The Golden Spinning Wheel, The Wood Dove. Unlike their successor (The Hero's Song) these first four were based upon ballads by folklorist Karel Erben.

Yet, there's plenty more to go for, not mentioned by Wikipedia. Kallinnikov and Karłowicz - new Naxos release as well - have been mentioned already. Other lesser known symphonic poems that I would recommend:

* Hamilton Harty (1879-1941), With the Wild Geese (1910)
* Heino Eller (1887-1970), Koit [Dawn], Videvik [Twilight], Viirastused [Fantoms], Varjus ja päikesepaistel [In Shade and Sunshine], Laulvad Pöllud [Singing Fields] (c. 1917-50)
* Cemal Reşit Rey (1904-1985), Bebek Efsanesi, Karagöz, Initation, L'appel, Fatih (c. 1928-53) and also Türkiye (discovered among his papers posthumously)

A huge array of wonderful choices out there! Some that I've been enjoying (again) of late are those of Vitezslav Novak (Lady Godiva, In the Tatra Mountains, etc.) and Douglas Lilburn (Aoteroa, Drysdale Overture, etc.). Bax has some really evocative beauties like Tintagel, November Woods, and On the Sea-Shore. There's of course Smetana's Ma Vlast tone poem cycle, suite/poems like Debussy's La Mer and Bridge's The Sea, Strauss's famous Don Juan, Ein Heldenleben, Also Sprach Zarathustra, and other very descriptive tone poems for large orchestra. Romeo and Juliet of Tchaikovsky, Les Preludes by Liszt, or for something recent, Rautavaara's On the Last Frontier (inspired by EA Poe).

Quote from: Wurstwasser on August 05, 2008, 08:16:53 PM
EDIT: Okay, Wikipedia wins again. All has been written. We can close the forum :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_poem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_symphonic_poems
Anyway, what to try next and why, what's it about?

There's one missing from that list: Ligeti's Poème symphonique pour 100 métronomes :D. Video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8v-uDhcDyg).

Nielsen
Helios Overture, Opus 17 / FS 32
En Fantasirejse til Faeroerne (An Imaginary Trip to the Faroe Islands), FS 123
Saga-drom (A Saga Dream), Opus 39 / FS 46

Saint-Saëns
Le rouet d'Omphale, Opus 31
Phaéton, Opus 39

Shostakovich
October, Opus 131

The orchestral repertoire is well-spiced with such symphonic poems.  There was a move in this direction as early as Telemann (some pieces in Tafelmusik are very programmatic), but the first well-known composer to work extensively in one-movement orchestral tone poems was Liszt (Les Preludes, the Mephisto Waltzes, and many others.)  (It should also be said that Liszt tended to work in single movements; his Second Piano Concerto and B minor Piano Sonata are each in one multifaceted movement.)  Others include Smetana, Borodin, Mussorgsky, Chabrier, Chausson, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Dvorak, Glazunov, Kodaly and of course Sibelius; but the composer best-known for this form is, of course, Richard Strauss.

I observe that most of this form's early development happened outside the Austro-German environment.  Liszt himself, although strongly allied with this environment, was originally Hungarian; his birth name was Ferenc, not Franz.  (I still have to laugh at comedian Victor Borge's routine on Liszt's name: "Franz L--Fran--F.L.I.S--nope!  Too hard to spell." ;D)

Quote from: jochanaan on August 06, 2008, 08:15:48 AM(I still have to laugh at comedian Victor Borge's routine on Liszt's name: "Franz L--Fran--F.L.I.S--nope!  Too hard to spell." ;D)

That's not the only one - Fliszt! It's not F. Liszt, it's Fliszt! Would you say M. Ozart? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWqFaGwNCMU)  ;D

Quote from: Grazioso on August 06, 2008, 03:56:22 AM
A huge array of wonderful choices out there! Some that I've been enjoying (again) of late are those of Vitezslav Novak (Lady Godiva, In the Tatra Mountains, etc.) and Douglas Lilburn (Aoteroa, Drysdale Overture, etc.). Bax has some really evocative beauties like Tintagel, November Woods, and On the Sea-Shore. There's of course Smetana's Ma Vlast tone poem cycle, suite/poems like Debussy's La Mer and Bridge's The Sea, Strauss's famous Don Juan, Ein Heldenleben, Also Sprach Zarathustra, and other very descriptive tone poems for large orchestra. Romeo and Juliet of Tchaikovsky, Les Preludes by Liszt, or for something recent, Rautavaara's On the Last Frontier (inspired by EA Poe).

Strauss's glitzy programmatic works don't generally float my boat, but Till EulenSpiegel's Merry Pranks is an exception.  Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun gets high marks from me, and I'll second Lilburn, Bax, and Bridge (don't know Novak--maybe I should!).  In addition to Bridge's The Sea, I like the others included here:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AH0Y1KT3L._SS400_.jpg)

There's a lot of 20th Century stuff that sort of defies easy categorization but that works as tone poem or symphonic poem for me.  Copland's Quiet City and Appalachian Spring, and Gershwin's An American in Paris are perennial favorites.  Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy gets a lot of press around these parts.   More Rautavaara: I would add Isle of Bliss and Angels and Visitations, and I would include Book of Visions as a suite of tone poems (like Sibelius's Lemminkäinen Legends and the aforementioned Ma Vlast).  And I would also include some of John Adams's works like Naive and Sentimental Music, The Chairman Dances, or (as a suite) My Father Knew Charles Ives, which naturally and intentionally calls to mind Ives's Three Places in New England (and then Piston's Three New England Sketches)--and mention of Ives calls to mind Central Park in the Dark, thence to Jennifer Higdon's CityScape and Blue Cathedral, and should we include works like Pärt's Tabula Rasa or most anything by Varèse?

Hey--just what the heck is a tone poem, anyway?  ;D

Let's not forget the immortal Frederick Delius, with works like Brigg Fair, A Song of Summer, Paris - Song of a Great City, North Country Sketches, Over The Hills And Far Away... And his orchestral miniatures, like On hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring, could count as mini tone-poems...

Quote from: DavidRoss on August 06, 2008, 02:03:52 PM
...Hey--just what the heck is a tone poem, anyway?  ;D

An assonance, for one thing. ;D

Quote from: Wurstwasser on August 05, 2008, 08:16:53 PM
Rachmaninoff also known as Rakhmaninov - Isle of the Dead

Actually only the first spelling is the correct one as used by the composer himself.

Good stuff mentioned so far, particularly Smetana, Saint Saens, Liszt (father of the form (Berlioz was granddaddy)), Sibelius.

In the South (Alassio) by Elgar is less known but very good.

Zemlinskys Seejungrau (Chailly, Decca)
Reger Bøcklin suite (Jærvi, Chandos)

Superb works and recordings. The first movement of the Reger is a thing of outstanding beauty.

Thanks for all your answers so far, I'll bookmark this thread for future reference...

Quote from: Jezetha on August 05, 2008, 11:12:23 PMYes yes yes! He wrote six, and they all have their beauties. I have the Noseda/Tortelier series on Chandos. And some Polish readings.

OK, I've bought the Naxos release now at http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=479227&affid=5
But only as an EXCEPTION. I first saw the 6.99$ and was lucky because of the weak $. I did not realize I paid 7 EUR as well :(
7 EUR for a lossy album is too much in my opinion. Also the bitrate difference to lossless formats is not that much from 320kbps.

Quote from: Wurstwasser on August 07, 2008, 01:31:28 AM
Thanks for all your answers so far, I'll bookmark this thread for future reference...
OK, I've bought the Naxos release now at http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=479227&affid=5
But only as an EXCEPTION. I first saw the 6.99$ and was lucky because of the weak $. I did not realize I paid 7 EUR as well :(

Cheer up, Wurstwasser - you now own three first-rate symphonic poems:

Stanislaw and Anna of Oswiecim (a place-name they never translate because of the infernal assocations: Auschwitz) - a very dramatic and colourful work where Tchaikovsky meets Richard Strauss

Lithuanian Rhapsody - a wonderfully spare and atmospheric piece

Episode at a Masquerade - all Brian says it is, and a personal favourite of mine too, tragedy mixed with Carnival

Quote from: DavidRoss on August 06, 2008, 02:03:52 PM
Strauss's glitzy programmatic works don't generally float my boat, but Till EulenSpiegel's Merry Pranks is an exception.  Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun gets high marks from me, and I'll second Lilburn, Bax, and Bridge (don't know Novak--maybe I should!).  In addition to Bridge's The Sea, I like the others included here:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AH0Y1KT3L._SS400_.jpg)

Or get it as part of this wonderful disc:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416SdSkhFEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

As for Novak, I'd highly recommend him to fans of Suk, Strauss, Mahler, Zemlinsky, and the like. One of his works I forgot to recommend is Pan, an hour-long, multi-movement tone poem that's quite beautiful.

Do not forget that the tone poem began as the stand alone 'overture'. I strongly recommend Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture, a true tone poem of the best kind.

Quote from: Ten thumbs on August 07, 2008, 04:17:07 AM
Do not forget that the tone poem began as the stand alone 'overture'. I strongly recommend Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture, a true tone poem of the best kind.

Very true!

Let's bring in Beethoven, too, shall we? Egmont, Coriolan... And Schumann's Manfred (if it hasn't been mentioned already).

Quote from: Ten thumbs on August 07, 2008, 04:17:07 AM
Do not forget that the tone poem began as the stand alone 'overture'. I strongly recommend Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture, a true tone poem of the best kind.

In that game we can also include Rhapsodies, of which there are many :D So much good music out there :)

Quote from: Lethe on August 07, 2008, 04:48:44 AM
In that game we can also include Rhapsodies, of which there are many :D So much good music out there :)

Also very true! And Sinfoniettas...

I think we'll end up with 'orchestral music apart from symphonies'... !

Quote from: Lethe on August 07, 2008, 04:48:44 AM
In that game we can also include Rhapsodies, of which there are many :D

You certainly get points for enthusiasm, Sara, but we cannot just call everything that is in one movement, and is not a symphony, a tone-poem.

One clue may be, that Liszt wrote both.  So why didn't he just call Orpheus a rhapsody?  Or call them Hungarian Tone-Poems?  ;)

Quote from: Jezetha on August 07, 2008, 04:51:27 AM
Also very true! And Sinfoniettas...

Now, Johan, you're losing your grip!  ;D  A tone-poem is specifically meant to be allied to some extra-musical idea;  the name Sinfonietta directly implies the abstaction of a symphony, onoy on a smaller scale.

Quote from: karlhenning on August 07, 2008, 04:57:06 AM
Now, Johan, you're losing your grip!  ;D  A tone-poem is specifically meant to be allied to some extra-musical idea;  the name Sinfonietta directly implies the abstaction of a symphony, onoy on a smaller scale.

What about Boléros?  ::)

Quote from: Christo on August 07, 2008, 05:03:47 AM
What about Boléros?  ::)

Well, it's obviously a dance-form, isn't it? Are Dvořák's Slavonic Dances 16 tone-poems?

Quote from: karlhenning on August 07, 2008, 05:16:35 AM
Well, it's obviously a dance-form, isn't it? Are Dvořák's Slavonic Dances 16 tone-poems?

Oops, - sorry, I wasn't serious!! :-X :-\  To add something of any substance at least, let me add that I suddenly realize some orchestral "ballads" might be considered symphonic poems as well and should be added to our shortlist.
Like Janáček's Ballada blanická (Ballad of Blaník), together with his Sumarovo Díte (The Fiddler's Child), or Respighi's Ballata delle Gnomidi (Ballad of the [female!] Gnomes] from the same years.  :P 0:)

BTW: Ravel's Boléro was indeed used as a sort of tone-poem, in an unexpected way. Namely, as a part of Uuno Klami's orchestral Sea Pictures (1932). Klami must have heard Ravel's Boléro in Vienna in 1929, but probably he somehow forgot the source of the theme when he himself used it for his sixth sea picture, "Force 3". It depicts a sailing trip at sea during an August summer day and hence may be called a sort of tone-poem. The similarity is, as they say, uncanning.  :)

And Smetana's tone-poem The Moldau includes a peasant dance as an episode.

Are all peasant dances tone-poems, then?  ;)

Quote from: karlhenning on August 07, 2008, 06:04:38 AM
Are all peasant dances tone-poems, then?  ;)

Actually, a good one - now that I start thinking about it. In a sense, many peasant dances in classical music do have some sort of a pictorial function. So we need more criteria for a tone-poem than that it is linked to some extra-musical or even narrative idea; all opera, ballet, theater, film music are.  ::)

Quote from: Christo on August 07, 2008, 05:33:14 AMBTW: Ravel's Boléro was indeed used as a sort of tone-poem, in an unexpected way.

And it definitely is a tone-bore-'em. A yawn-poem.

Quote from: Christo on August 07, 2008, 06:15:53 AMSo we need more criteria for a tone-poem than that it is linked to some extra-musical or even narrative idea; all opera, ballet, theater, film music are.  ::)

Well, but the tone poem composer does not (and did not intend to) write a visual equivalent (I mean Theater/Opera/Cinematic) for his tone poem.

English composer Arnold Bax wrote a substantial number of highly atmospheric and intensely beautiful tone poems:

Tintagel
The Garden of Fand
Northern Ballad No.1
November Woods
etc.

best captured on this disc:

(http://www.lyrita.co.uk/covers/SRCD0231.jpg)

Thomas

How do you rate Vernon Handley here? I'm not a friend of old recordings.
http://www.theclassicalshop.net/details06MP3.asp?CNumber=CHAN%2010362W
http://www.theclassicalshop.net/details06MP3.asp?CNumber=CHAN%2010446W

Handley is always very fine, he was a pupil of Boult's.

But Sir Adrian has the edge here, his readings are both sensitive and taut. He had a way with English music that no one else was quite able to capture.

Plus, the Lyrita disc sounds excellent.  $:)

Another great disc for lovers of über-Romantic tone poems:

(http://www.joseph-marx.org/images/Natur-Trilogie_Cover.jpg)

Thomas

Quote from: Jezetha on August 07, 2008, 04:19:58 AM
Very true!

Let's bring in Beethoven, too, shall we? Egmont, Coriolan... And Schumann's Manfred (if it hasn't been mentioned already).

Of course, none of the above actually are stand-alone overtures.

Quote from: M forever on August 07, 2008, 02:53:33 PM
Of course, none of the above actually are stand-alone overtures.

Strictly speaking you are right - they are all part of the stage music for these plays by Goethe, Collin (not Shakespeare) and Byron. But they are musically so complete and satisfying...

Quote from: Christo on August 07, 2008, 05:33:14 AM
Respighi

Of course! What are Pines of Rome and Fountains of Rome if not tone poem cycles?

Quote from: sound67 on August 07, 2008, 07:29:46 AM
Another great disc for lovers of über-Romantic tone poems:

(http://www.joseph-marx.org/images/Natur-Trilogie_Cover.jpg)

Thomas

My interest is officially piqued.

Quote from: eyeresist on August 07, 2008, 06:47:03 PM
Of course! What are Pines of Rome and Fountains of Rome if not tone poem cycles?

I think you're right: we didn't introduce Ottorino Respighi (1879-1936) so far, but he should be on the shortlist as well. Not just for the sake of his Roman Trilogy, but a couple of other works as well. The Roman Trilogy includes Fontane di Roma (1916), Pini di Roma (1924) and Feste Romane (1928), and they're by far his most well-known pieces, but I myself, nowadays, sometimes play the first (Fontane) still, but never the other two anymore.

Yet, Respighi wrote more tone poems: Ballata delle Gnomidi (Ballad of the [female] Gnomes, 1919), Vetrate di chiesa (Church Windows, 1925), Trittico botticelliano (Three Botticelli Paintings, 1927), Impressioni brasiliane (Brazilian Impressions, 1928).

Of these, my absolute favourite is the Trittico botticelliano, stylistically related to my other favourite Respighi piece, Lauda per la natività del Signore (1930), the most moving `Christmas music' of all time, imo. But all other ones are at least of some interest, the Ballata as a welcome alternative to Dukas' L'Apprenti Sorcier, the Brazilian impressions for presenting some of the most [edit:] convenient sounds ever produced in orchestral music.

Edit: and there's the four-part orchestral Suite from his ballet, Belkis, Queen of Sheba (1932), just ballet music, of course, but at the same time hardly different from his four-part tone poems and very much a natural successor to the Feste romane.

Quote from: Christo on August 08, 2008, 02:05:55 AM
. . . the Brazilian impressions for presenting some of the most exotic sounds ever produced in orchestral music.

Beg pardon, but I think this is overselling them a shade.

Quote from: Christo on August 08, 2008, 02:05:55 AMthe Brazilian impressions for presenting some of the most exotic sounds ever produced in orchestral music.

Perhaps we should mention that some of Villa Lobos' Choros might count as symphonic poems, and are slightly more Brazilian yet.  ;)

Quote from: karlhenning on August 08, 2008, 03:59:44 AM
Beg pardon, but I think this is overselling them a shade.

You're right, I edited the wronged words a bit.  ;)

Could we go so far as to include Carlos Chavez' Sinfonia india?  True, it's called a "symphony," but it's descriptive and in one movement--and also a fun piece... :)

Quote from: Wurstwasser on August 05, 2008, 08:16:53 PM
Hi,

with great pleasure I listen to Sergej Rachmaninoff - The Isle of the Dead and I was happy to have found it. [image (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Bocklin_isle_of_the_dead_NY.jpg)]]

Hey did you know there are like half a dozen of Isle of the Dead paintings? Check  this (http://www.stmoroky.com/reviews/gallery/bocklin/iotd.htm) out.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 08, 2008, 07:27:13 AM
Hey did you know there are like half a dozen of Isle of the Dead paintings? Check  this (http://www.stmoroky.com/reviews/gallery/bocklin/iotd.htm) out.

Thanks, PW. I never knew that.

Quote from: Jezetha on August 08, 2008, 07:32:17 AM
Thanks, PW. I never knew that.

Looks like the guy caught the Deryck Cooke syndrome.

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 08, 2008, 07:38:35 AM
Looks like the guy caught the Deryck Cooke syndrome.

;D

(Or Bruckner fever.)

IMHO, the greatest symphonic poem is
Tchaikovsky's Manfred, one of his best orchestra
piece with 6th.symphony.

My favorites (so far) are:

Mussorgsky - Pictures at An Exhibition (piano original or Ravel's orchestrated)

Strauss, R. - Also Sprach Zarathustra; Ein Heldenleben

Dvorak - The Wild Dove; The Noon-Day Witch

And perhaps other ones for which I didn't realize were categorized as tone poems.

Quote from: ChamberNut on August 08, 2008, 09:30:18 AM
My favorites (so far) are:

Mussorgsky - Pictures at An Exhibition (piano original or Ravel's orchestrated)

Strauss, R. - Also Sprach Zarathustra; Ein Heldenleben

Dvorak - The Wild Dove; The Noon-Day Witch

And perhaps other ones for which I didn't realize were categorized as tone poems.

figures i'd find you on this thread...   :D


I love all of Richard Strauss Tone Poems...
     Don Juan and Ein Heldenleben are alot of fun to play!

Regards,
TM   :)

Quote from: Brian on August 08, 2008, 05:07:03 AM
Perhaps we should mention that some of Villa Lobos' Choros might count as symphonic poems, and are slightly more Brazilian yet.  ;)

Of course, Villa-Lobos! I wouldn't rank the Choros as tone poems, and there's no need either, as he wrote at least a handful of genuine examples. The ones that I know being: Amazonas (1917), Uirapuru [an Amazon bird] (1917), O Papagaio do Moleque (The Kite of the Guttersnipe, 1932), Erosão (Erosion, 1950), Dawn in a Tropical Forest (1953), Gênesis (1954).

The third one mentioned above, O Papagaio do Moleque, was on a Brazilian LP with live recordings from some "Villa-Lobos Conducting Competetion" associated with the name of Koussevitsky [Foundation?] as well, that I heard in my teens and made a strong impression on me. I never heard it since and am not aware of any modern recording (but didn't really check, will do so now).

EDIT: O Pagaio do Moleque exists in a historic recording of Villa-Lobos himself conducting the Symphony of the Air, to be found at this rare CD:
              (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/c1/48/8372793509a0e73b74be7110._AA240_.L.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AoXnAH0gL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
                                     (The others are included in the Marco Polo CD above, that I should like to play again.)

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 08, 2008, 07:27:13 AM
Hey did you know there are like half a dozen of Isle of the Dead paintings? Check  this (http://www.stmoroky.com/reviews/gallery/bocklin/iotd.htm) out.

Aha! I didn't know that. I saw the one in Berlin and remember thinking, hmm...that looks different from the reproduction I have seen...but I don't have a very exact visual memory, so I thought I had just remembered it incorrectly. Apparently I didn't. The reproduction I have seen was probably of the Leipzig version.

Quote from: M forever on August 08, 2008, 03:07:59 PM
Aha! I didn't know that. I saw the one in Berlin and remember thinking, hmm...that looks different from the reproduction I have seen...but I don't have a very exact visual memory, so I thought I had just remembered it incorrectly. Apparently I didn't. The reproduction I have seen was probably of the Leipzig version.

I thought there were two versions, didn't know there were like 4 or 5. Also I thought the two versions were day and night, but apparently the differences are quite staggering, like the cave opening in different places. Awesome painting though, almost as good as the music itself, and that is saying something.

How do you compare a piece of music and a painting, two works of art from completely different disciplines? And conclude one is "almost as good" as the other? How almost? 92%?

Quote from: M forever on August 08, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
How do you compare a piece of music and a painting, two works of art from completely different disciplines? And conclude one is "almost as good" as the other? How almost? 92%?

Yeah that was pretty stupid. Put it this way, the music is about 18 minutes long and the painting pretty much held my attention for about that long so I guess it is pretty good.

Zemlinsky ~ Die Seejungfrau

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on August 08, 2008, 07:27:13 AM
Hey did you know there are like half a dozen of Isle of the Dead paintings? Check  this (http://www.stmoroky.com/reviews/gallery/bocklin/iotd.htm) out.

Very interesting, thanks. Fans of this painting might be interested to know that Val Lewton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Lewton) produced a film called Isle of The Dead (inspired by the painting), and a reproduction of the painting appears in his film I Walked With a Zombie.

Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on August 08, 2008, 06:27:28 PM
Zemlinsky ~ Die Seejungfrau

Yep!

Quote from: erato on August 07, 2008, 12:41:20 AM
Zemlinskys Seejungrau (Chailly, Decca)
Reger Bøcklin suite (Jærvi, Chandos)

Superb works and recordings. The first movement of the Reger is a thing of outstanding beauty.

.....

Who is the greatest writer of tone poems in your opinion? Strauss? Liszt? Dvorak? Sibelius? Someone else?

For me, it is Sibelius. He is able to evoke worlds of ancient mystery in his tone poetry that, for me, is unsurpassed.

Anyone else?

I go for Sibelius too, especially the later ones which seal the deal (The Oceanides, The Bard). In addition to those mentioned on your list my other favourites are Bax, Karłowicz and Tchaikovsky.

Quote from: Lethe on July 31, 2009, 01:47:13 PM
I go for Sibelius too, especially the later ones which seal the deal (The Oceanides, The Bard). In addition to those mentioned on your list my other favourites are Bax, Karłowicz and Tchaikovsky.

Tchaikovsky has certainly written some good one, and I am familiar with Karlowicz. I have had lots of trouble getting in Bax's tone poems; I think he is better at symphonies, but that's just my thought.

Speaking of Sibelius's later tone poems, it's Tapiola that seals the deal for me. That work really is a stroke of genius. It's virtually symphonic in scope, especially if you compare it to Sibbe's 7th. And that strikingly weird orchestration...

I forgot about him because he isn't known for the form - but Elgar produced 3 superb tone poems (all titled "concert overture"): Froissart, Cockaigne (In London Town), In the South (Alassio).

All are magical Romantic works, at times resembling his contemporary Strauss.

Sibelius, Dvorak, yes they are great.

Interesting thread. For me:

Bax
Liadov
Sibelius
Nielsen
Holst (Egdon Heath)
Alfven

To me, Strauss composed the greatest tone poem: Don Quixotte.

But in general, I prefer Sibelius. More subtle, with more variety and fantasy.

Quote from: val on August 01, 2009, 12:54:41 AM
To me, Strauss composed the greatest tone poem: Don Quixotte.

But in general, I prefer Sibelius. More subtle, with more variety and fantasy.

What do you mean by more subtle? There is no subtlety in Strauss? Or less of it?

Let's not forget Smetana! Má vlast, that cycle of six tone poems, has to be ranked among the greatest ever composed. In addition he gave us Wallenstein's Camp, Hakon Jarl, and Richard III.

But greatest? It has to be either Strauss or Sibelius. I hold them in comparable esteem.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on August 01, 2009, 07:17:17 AM
Let's not forget Smetana! Má vlast, that cycle of six tone poems, has to be ranked among the greatest ever composed. In addition he gave us Wallenstein's Camp, Hakon Jarl, and Richard III.

But greatest? It has to be either Strauss or Sibelius. I hold them in comparable esteem.

Sarge

I agree with your assessment of Smetana. Ma Vlast very well could be ranked among the best in the genre.

But based on quality of over-all output, I do see Sibelius or Strauss on a generally higher level.

Even without Tapiola, I'd be tempted to say Sibelius. With Tapiola included, no contest.

Quote from: ChamberNut on July 31, 2009, 02:44:24 PM
Sibelius, Dvorak, yes they are great.

However, it is Richard Strauss for me by a country mile!  0:)

YES!

Rachmaninoff.

Quote from: Tapkaara on July 31, 2009, 01:51:42 PM
Sibbe

How come, unless you're Finnish? ???

Edit, to clarify my possibly cryptic post: Sibbe is a nickname of Sibelius used by (mostly) (Finnish?) musicians.

Some of my personal favourites in this category (details to be followed later) would be:

Respighi, Janáček, Martinů, Eller, Freitas Branco, Rey. (Who's Rey?? See Cemal Reşit Rey). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemal_Re%C5%9Fit_Rey)

Quote from: matti on August 01, 2009, 01:05:22 PM
How come, unless you're Finnish? ???

Edit, to clarify my possibly cryptic post: Sibbe is a nickname of Sibelius used by (mostly) (Finnish?) musicians.

I am not Finnish. But Sibbe was the family name of the composer before is was "Latinized" to Sibelius. (The Latinaztion of family names in Finland and Scandinavia was common at the time.)

Mutta eläköön Suomi!

Quote from: Lethe on July 31, 2009, 01:47:13 PM
I go for Sibelius too, especially the later ones which seal the deal (The Oceanides, The Bard). In addition to those mentioned on your list my other favourites are Bax, Karłowicz and Tchaikovsky.

Yes, Sibelius and Bax.  need more be said in favor of two of my favorite composers.  Much is stated on both these wonderful composers in this forum.

There are other possible mentions, several of whom have been stated.  I'd like to include the following:
Howells - Paradise Rondel' Threnody for Cello and Orchestra

Janacek Idyll -, Suite, Sinfonietta, Fiddler's Child, Taras Bulba

Arthur Farwell  - Gods of the Mountains

Roslavets - In the Hour of the New Moon

Gliere - Sirens

Then, again, perhaps these are more defined as suites or as category other than that of tone poem.  What about Tchaikovsky's Hamlet?  Francesca Da Rimini?  Long time since I've heard these.

Quote from: Tapkaara on August 01, 2009, 08:17:49 PM
I am not Finnish. But Sibbe was the family name of the composer before is was "Latinized" to Sibelius. (The Latinaztion of family names in Finland and Scandinavia was common at the time.)

Mutta eläköön Suomi!

Interesting, thanks! Didn't know that.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Delius.

Quote from: schweitzeralan on August 02, 2009, 06:23:02 AM
Yes, Sibelius and Bax.  need more be said in favor of two of my favorite composers.  Much is stated on both these wonderful composers in this forum.

There are other possible mentions, several of whom have been stated.  I'd like to include the following:
Howells - Paradise Rondel' Threnody for Cello and Orchestra

Janacek Idyll -, Suite, Sinfonietta, Fiddler's Child, Taras Bulba

Arthur Farwell  - Gods of the Mountains

Roslavets - In the Hour of the New Moon

Gliere - Sirens

Then, again, perhaps these are more defined as suites or as category other than that of tone poem.  What about Tchaikovsky's Hamlet?  Francesca Da Rimini?  Long time since I've heard these.

What are the Arthur Farwell and Roslavets pieces like?

I have a deeper affinity with, & seem to connect more with tone poem-like works of Janacek, Sibelius & Bax. I find Strauss' efforts too diffuse & too long, more like symphonies. That said, I enjoy Sibelius' Lemminkainen Suite immensely, even though (at times), that work reads like a symphony.

I'm also surprised that no-one seems to have mentioned Liszt. He wasn't as good as an orchestrator as the others, but I think he gets his ideas across pretty well in works like Les Preludes. He was also one of the originators of the genre.

Recently, I've heard what you'd call a tone poem composed in the 1970's by Hovhaness called Fanfare for the New Atlantis. It's quite an interesting listen, picturing the city rising from the waves, and has a magnificent crescendo at the end. I still enjoy more obscure works like this, if they succeed in getting their message across...

Quote from: vandermolen on August 02, 2009, 11:48:24 PM
What are the Arthur Farwell and Roslavets pieces like?

I removed the quoted article as i was attempting to cut and paste; there seems to ave been changes made in this procedure on my computer.  I'm working on it.  I can use traditional attached email forms but not transfer items here.  I have to work on it. All  I can say basically is that both Farwell and Roslavet's very early piece in terms of muscal language only is somewhat similar.  Farwell is dramatic, and quite laden with orchestral color.  Roslavet's piece is more tranquil and impressoistic.  It is a far cry from is later avant garde, post Scriabin piano works.  Roslavets as not composed a great deal of orchestral pieces.  I'll have to learn to upload properly relevant information from time to time. My computer "updates" are making me work.

Actually, quite an interesting musical construct. I'm tempted to study tone poems now.

Quote from: MN Dave on August 04, 2009, 07:29:33 AM
Actually, quite an interesting musical construct. I'm tempted to study tone poems now.

Do you have a favorite?

No, I can't really pick one. I'm usually in sync with the popular favorites (warhorses).

Why 'the greatest'? What's this obsession with greatest, biggest, longest and so forth? Can't any one be confident in their manhood opinions?

Musical tone poems have been around for almost 200 years, in one form or another. From Beethoven's Overtures to plays, to current-day examples.

Much has been written since Sibelius' Finlandia and other early works. Among little-known but very valuable scandinavian composers, I'd single out works by Lindberg (not Karl) and Kallstenius. Has anyone mentioned David Diamond's The Enormous Room ?

Dvorak's late tone poems deserve a special place. The Noonday Witch and The Water Goblin in particular.

At the risk of becoming repeating myself yet again, Charles Koechlin's Vers la voûte étoilée has become one of my favorite tone poems — it's up there with Sibelius's masterpieces of the genre (The Bard, Oceanides) in my estimation (really!).

Thanks for repeating yourself, Corey  ;). Where is the Koechlin to be found?

Quote from: Drasko on June 16, 2007, 03:11:14 AM
Mussorgsky - Night on the Bald Mountain
Tchaikovsky - Francesca da Rimini
Scriabin - Promethee
Scriabin - Le Poeme de l'Extase
Sibelius - Tapiola
Rachmaninov - Isle of the Dead
Dvorak - The Water Goblin
Janacek - Taras Bulba
Ravel - La Valse
Revueltas - Sensemaya

You picked a great list.  Almost all figure on my own favorites list, with the exception of 'La Valse."  I do love practically everything else by Ravel.  I am unfamiliar with the Revueltas work.  I plan to have "Tapiola" played @my funeral.

Oh gosh, a top ten list...

Here's a different list: One Poem Per Composer!
[out of order]
Vltava / Moldau
Isle of the Dead
The Wild Dove
Le Poeme de l'Extase
Pohjola's Daughter
L'apprenti sorcier
An American in Paris (yes!)
La valse
Tod und Verklarung
Tintagel

Does Martinu's Memorial to Lidice count?

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on September 23, 2009, 08:17:20 PM
Thanks for repeating yourself, Corey  ;). Where is the Koechlin to be found?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51834XNKNCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

In addition to vers la voûte, this disc contains the sprawling Le Docteur Fabricius, which is also a showcase for Koechlin's unique harmonic language and dazzling orchestration.

Quote from: Brian on September 24, 2009, 05:22:47 AMThe Wild Dove

Your posting was a reminder for me to listen to Dvořáks "The Wood Dove op. 110". Did it on Saturday once and don't know the story behind it yet... Want to listen again at first. Just a few loose thoughts: All in all a sad story, I heard some whistling somewhere within, and a later part reminded me of Beethoven 3, Marcia Funebre, struggle, death, mourn,,,, the stuff we like, eh? ;) The main theme very much reminded me of theone in Brahms 3/3 "Poco Allegretto".

Quote from: corey on September 23, 2009, 07:24:04 PM
At the risk of becoming repeating myself yet again, Charles Koechlin's Vers la voûte étoilée has become one of my favorite tone poems — it's up there with Sibelius's masterpieces of the genre (The Bard, Oceanides) in my estimation (really!).

I'll have to chime in here and echo that.  I am big on Koechlin's The Forest in Spring, but Koechlin kept to the tone poem format long after it fashionable- yet he was not adverse to working in all sorts of dissonances and "progressive sounds" , not to mention some creative orchestration. 

Also, Hanson's Pan and the Priest is a fave of mine.  And Barber's Music for  a Scene by Shelly.


A lot of my other faves have been mentioned.  Isle of the Dead has to be my fave Rachmaninoff.

Quote from: schweitzeralan on September 24, 2009, 05:13:19 AM
You picked a great list.  Almost all figure on my own favorites list, with the exception of 'La Valse."  I do love practically everything else by Ravel.  I am unfamiliar with the Revueltas work. 

Thank you, the list today would probably be the same as it was there year ago. You should become familiar with Revueltas. There is two-disc set from RCA covering the basics. As for La Valse, could be the recording causing you not to like it, many sound banal even to me who like the piece. Try either Boulez/Berlin Philharmonic/DG (slow, ominous, malevolent) or Munch/Boston SO/live one is the finest but studio RCA is good enough (fast, tempestuous, cataclysmic). 

Quote from: Drasko on October 01, 2009, 06:33:44 AM
Thank you, the list today would probably be the same as it was there year ago. You should become familiar with Revueltas. There is two-disc set from RCA covering the basics. As for La Valse, could be the recording causing you not to like it, many sound banal even to me who like the piece. Try either Boulez/Berlin Philharmonic/DG (slow, ominous, malevolent) or Munch/Boston SO/live one is the finest but studio RCA is good enough (fast, tempestuous, cataclysmic). 

I'll give the Revueltas a try.

Quote from: Lethe on June 16, 2007, 01:24:41 AM
The tone poems are my favourite area of Sibelius's work. It is probably heresy to rate them above the symphonies, but they feel more naturally organic to me with the absence of the formal requirements of a symphony :)

I primerally want to find some outside the big names to look into.

I don't think it is heresy at all as I personally prefer the orchestral painting of tone poems over most symphonies.  Tone poems are often coupled with symphonies and are usually included at the end of the program and don't we ALWAYS save the best for last?

Tone poems and symphonic pictures are among my favorite classical forms.  To be sure programmatic symphonies can come close to the excitement, drama and adventure of tone poems and I love those as well.  Such as Tchaikovsky's Manfred and Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique.

All of my favorites have already been listed except for Tchaikovsky's Fatum or "Fate", Op.77.  I recommend every single tone poem I've heard by Dvorak, Liszt, Respighi, Rachmaninoff, Sibelius and Tchaikovsky.

I love Richars Strauss' tone poems. My favourite is "Ein Heldenleben".
I also like Dvorak, specially "The Wild Dove" and "The Golden spinning wheel".

Quote from: Teresa on October 01, 2009, 01:54:50 PM
I don't think it is heresy at all as I personally prefer the orchestral painting of tone poems over most symphonies.  Tone poems are often coupled with symphonies and are usually included at the end of the program and don't we ALWAYS save the best for last?

Tone poems and symphonic pictures are among my favorite classical forms.

Exactly my thoughts. In the case of Sibelius, mostly I also prefer his tone poems (most of them) over his symphonies.

Quote from: Drasko on October 01, 2009, 06:33:44 AM
Thank you, the list today would probably be the same as it was there year ago. You should become familiar with Revueltas. There is two-disc set from RCA covering the basics. As for La Valse, could be the recording causing you not to like it, many sound banal even to me who like the piece. Try either Boulez/Berlin Philharmonic/DG (slow, ominous, malevolent) or Munch/Boston SO/live one is the finest but studio RCA is good enough (fast, tempestuous, cataclysmic).  

Have you ever heard, or,are you familiar with Lyatoshinsky's "On the Banks of the Vistula?" Just heard it recently.  Good work.  Many great tone poems composed over the decades and centuries.

Lyatoshinsky is an overlooked composer (fine symphonies). I'll have to re-listen to On the Banks of the Vistula. I haven't given these Russian Discs a  listen is at least 4 years... I suppose it's the one paired with the 4th symphony?

Did you ever get a chance to hear that Koechlin disc, Lilas?

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 09, 2009, 08:18:20 PM
Lyatoshinsky is an overlooked composer (fine symphonies). I'll have to re-listen to On the Banks of the Vistula. I haven't given these Russian Discs a  listen is at least 4 years... I suppose it's the one paired with the 4th symphony?

It is paired with the 4th. Good purchse.  Lya's works are becomg more avalable.  My favorite sympony of his is the Gliereian 1st. Other tonre poems are alsp iicluded with his other 4 recorded symphonic works.

Quote from: corey on October 09, 2009, 08:19:10 PM
Did you ever get a chance to hear that Koechlin disc, Lilas?

No... :'(

I'm only familiar with Les Bandar-Log and the Jungle Book collage.

Quote from: corey on September 23, 2009, 07:24:04 PM
At the risk of becoming repeating myself yet again, Charles Koechlin's Vers la voûte étoilée has become one of my favorite tone poems — it's up there with Sibelius's masterpieces of the genre (The Bard, Oceanides) in my estimation (really!).

I bought this CD on the strength of your recommendation and agree that it is a fine, poetic, beautifully atmospheric work. I also agree with Andre about the Lyatoshinsky tone poems. A plug also for Miaskovsky's early 'Silence' (after Edgar Allan Poe) and Mcewen's 'Where the Wild thyme blows' - like Holst's Egdon Heath.

I second Jeffrey's recommendation of 'Silence'. A strong, atmospheric work.

I wonder if anyone mentioned David Diamond's 'The Enormous Room' ? A very fine work.

Quote from: Lilas Pastia on October 11, 2009, 03:00:08 PM
I second Jeffrey's recommendation of 'Silence'. A strong, atmospheric work.

I wonder if anyone mentioned David Diamond's 'The Enormous Room' ? A very fine work.

I agree - Diamond was a great composer.

Quote from: Tapkaara on August 01, 2009, 08:17:49 PM
I am not Finnish. But Sibbe was the family name of the composer before is was "Latinized" to Sibelius. (The Latinaztion of family names in Finland and Scandinavia was common at the time.)

Mutta eläköön Suomi!

Thanks for addressing something I'd often wondered about!  I'd always thought "Sibelius" was a more Latin-sounding name than I would have expected from a Finn.  I wonder now if the tradition began with the famous Swedish taxonomist Karl von Linné, who Latinized himself as Carolus Linnaeus...?  (In his case, the change has an obvious motive, since Linnaeus originated the Latin system of species names; it only makes sense that he would apply his new system to himself. :))

Quote from: jochanaan on October 13, 2009, 01:08:51 PMThanks for addressing something I'd often wondered about!  I'd always thought "Sibelius" was a more Latin-sounding name than I would have expected from a Finn.

Same as with Biggus Dickus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc) ;)

I consider Richard Strauss to be the master of this form and am surprised to not read a single post mentioning "Til Eulanspielgel's Merry Pranks".   So I will mention it.  Others would include "Ein Heldenlieben", "Don Juan", "Don Quixote" and "Sinfonia Domestica".   

Zarathustra is justly famous (mostly for it's grand opening and for it's use in a Kubrick film , but how many really know what it is about?

Hearty thanks to all the contributors to this thread.

There's so much stuff recommended here that I don't know where to start - my wallet's going to get a lot lighter in the coming months!

Can I second eyeresist's endorsement of Elgar's In The South - a superb piece which for some unaccountable reason E.E. called an "overture", thus stymying its concert performances - organisers want to put it first on the list, "because it's an overture, dear boy" - whereas it would make a glorious main course.

Other favourites of mine include Havergal Brian's In Memoriam - already mentioned by Sargeant Rock, and perhaps the Brian piece for people who don't like Brian; it's very Elgarian. And John Ireland's highly atmospheric The Forgotten Rite. (I haven't yet heard his other tone-poem Mai Dun, but I gather it's an equally fine work.)

  There are so many highly enjoyable ones.
  I've always been very fond of the Symphonia Domestica of Richard Strauss,a sadly underrated work full of high spirits, sly humor, inventiveness, warmth and sumptuous orchestration. It hasn't been recorded as often as the other Strauss symphonic poems,but there are some fine recordings of it by Karajan,Kempe, Mehta, Sawallisch,DeWaart,
and even the composer himself.
  I also love the Alpine symphony, which has also come in for more  than its share of glibly dismissive comments.

  Nielsen's Pan and Syrinx is a most interesting work based on Greek mythology,telling the story how the dryad Syrinx was changed into a reed after being pursued by the god Pan.
  Nielsen's Phantasy overture,"An imaginary trip to the Faroe islands"  is also very effective.
   "Praga",by Josef Suk,son-in-law of Dvorak,is a vivid portrait of Prague, almost the Czech equivalent of Elgar's Cockgaine overture, another very effective work.
   
 

Quote from: Superhorn on September 27, 2010, 02:45:47 PM
Nielsen's Pan and Syrinx is a most interesting work based on Greek mythology,telling the story how the dryad Syrinx was changed into a reed after being pursued by the god Pan.

Now that's a story I can relate to.   ;D

Some favorites of mine:

Glière - The Sirens
Tchaikovsky - The Voyevode, Francesca da Rimini
Sibelius - The Wood Nymph
Lyatoshinsky - Grazhyna
Dvorák - The Watergoblin, The Noon Witch
Strauss - An Alpine Symphony (intended as a big tone poem)
Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer
Smetana - The Moldau
Klami - Kalevala Suite (if it counts)
Bax - Springfire
Respighi - Feste Romane
Janacek - Taras Bulba
Ireland - Mai-Dun
Karlowicz - Eternal Songs
Nielsen - Pan and Syrinx
Debussy - Nocturnes
McEwen - Gray Galloway
Magnard - Hymne à Venus
Balakirev - Tamara
Lyapunov - Hashish
Englund - Epinikia
Ivanovs - The Rainbow
Atterberg - Alven (The River)
Bartók - Kossuth

Very nice selection !

I wonder how to characterize the works of Silvestre Revueltas ? He didn't assign them to any genre, but if we take 'tone poems' as orchestral works with an intent to depict (something, somewhere, somebody), then he composed superb items in the genre:

Sensemaya
La Noche de los Mayas
Janitzio
Ocho por radio
Ventanas
Itinerarios
Caminos

Edit for typo correction  :)

Quote from: André on February 05, 2018, 04:01:02 PM
Very nice selection !

I wonder how to characterize the works of Silvestre Revueltas ? He didn't assign them to any genre, but if we take 'tone poems' as orchestral works with an intent to depict (something, somewhere, somebody), then he composed superb items in the genre:

Sensemaya
La Novhe de los Mayas
Janitzio
Ocho por radio
Ventanas
Itinerarios
Caminos

Indeed, Andre. They're musical depictions of ancient myths, trees, islands, native peoples, etc. Revueltas' music is truly remarkable and he remains my favorite Mexican composer. Sorry Carlos!

Can Debussy's Nocturnes really be called a tone poem? Thought the term referred to single movement programmatic romantic orchestral  works.

I like most all of Liszt's, particularly  Les Preludes, Mazeppa, Prometheus and Festklange

Quote from: André on February 05, 2018, 04:01:02 PM
I wonder how to characterize the works of Silvestre Revueltas ?

La Noche de los Mayas

This is a suite from a film soundtrack.  Ocho por radio is chamber music.  I wouldn't classify his other works as tone poems, but others might. 

Quote from: Todd on February 05, 2018, 05:30:04 PM

This is a suite from a film soundtrack.  Ocho por radio is chamber music.  I wouldn't classify his other works as tone poems, but others might.

Okay to La noche and Ocho por radio, but the rest of Andre's list most definitely are tone poems.

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 05, 2018, 03:31:13 PM
Some favorites of mine:

Glière - The Sirens
Tchaikovsky - The Voyevode, Francesca da Rimini
Sibelius - The Wood Nymph
Lyatoshinsky - Grazhyna
Dvorák - The Watergoblin, The Noon Witch
Strauss - An Alpine Symphony (intended as a big tone poem)
Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer
Smetana - The Moldau
Klami - Kalevala Suite (if it counts)
Bax - Springfire
Respighi - Feste Romane
Janacek - Taras Bulba
Ireland - Mai-Dun
Karlowicz - Eternal Songs
Nielsen - Pan and Syrinx
Debussy - Nocturnes
McEwen - Gray Galloway
Magnard - Hymne à Venus
Balakirev - Tamara
Lyapunov - Hashish
Englund - Epinikia
Ivanovs - The Rainbow
Atterberg - Alven (The River)
Bartók - Kossuth

Great list! I love many of these.😀

Quote from: Christo on June 21, 2007, 01:10:08 AMTchaikovsky, Romeo and Juliet
Dvorák, The Golden Spinning Wheel
Dvorák, The Noon Witch
Saint-Saëns, Danse Macabre
Harty, With the Wild Geese
Debussy, La Mer
Janacek, Taras Bulba
Respighi, Trittico botticelliano
Sibelius, Tapiola
Rey, Türkiye

Time to review and add some more:

Barber, Medea's Meditation and Dance of Vengeance & Night Flight
Bridge, Summer & Enter Spring
Čiurlionis, Jūra (The Sea)
Eller, Viirastused (Phantoms)
Gershwin, An American in Paris
Kabalevsky, Vestna (Spring)
Langgaard, Sfaerenes Musik (Music of the Spheres)
Martinů, Podobenství (Parables) & Les Fresques de Piero della Francesca
Pierné, Paysages franciscains
Rachmaninoff, Caprice bohémien
Respighi, Fontane di Roma & Feste Romane
Sibelius, Luonnotar
Vaughan Williams, The Lark Ascending & The Solent
Villa-Lobos, O papagaio do moleque & Genesis

Tchaikovsky - The Tempest, Romeo and Juliet, Francesca da Rimini
Strauss - Ein Heldenleben, Eine Alpensinfonie (I count it), Tod und Verklärung
Bantock - Thalaba the Destroyer
Balakirev - Tamara
Schoenberg - Pelleas und Melisande
Zemlinsky - Die Seejungfrau
Suk - Prague, Ripening
Liszt - Hungaria, Hunnenschlacht

Quote from: Christo on February 06, 2018, 12:52:02 AM
Time to review and add some more:

Barber, Medea's Meditation and Dance of Vengeance & Night Flight
Bridge, Summer & Enter Spring
Čiurlionis, Jūra (The Sea)
Eller, Viirastused (Phantoms)
Gershwin, An American in Paris
Kabalevsky, Vestna (Spring)
Langgaard, Sfaerenes Musik (Music of the Spheres)
Martinů, Podobenství (Parables) & Les Fresques de Piero della Francesca
Pierné, Paysages franciscains
Rachmaninoff, Caprice bohémien
Respighi, Fontane di Roma & Feste Romane
Sibelius, Luonnotar
Vaughan Williams, The Lark Ascending & The Solent
Villa-Lobos, O papagaio do moleque & Genesis

Another list with which I largely agree.

Must listen to Bantock's 'Thalaba the Destroyer' after two recommendations here. Lyatoshinsky's 'Grazhyna' is a very fine work.

Thalaba is quite good, despite its hollywoodian title. The box of Bantock orchestral works is a fount of delights.

Regarding La Noche de los Mayas, it's a special case, the work as we know it having been recomposed and put together by conductor José Limantour many hears after Revueltas' death. In its new guise it is a four movement suite that portrays different « moods » of the ancient mayans' civillization.
Link here: https://www.britannica.com/topic/La-noche-de-los-Mayas (https://www.britannica.com/topic/La-noche-de-los-Mayas).

As for Ocho por radio, it's an abstract tone poem for 8 instruments depicting (according to the composer's own description) a mathematical equation that cannot be resolved. The title merely alludes to the instrumental distribution at his disposal (he expected more) and the fact that it was a radio commission. Its structure is tripartite like that of a concerto and contains many typical 'mexican' touches, like mariachis bits. Here's an excellent article depicting its form and genesis, plus a clip of an actual performance:
http://musicaenmexico.com.mx/ocho-por-radio-silvestre-revueltas-1899-1940/       (http://musicaenmexico.com.mx/ocho-por-radio-silvestre-revueltas-1899-1940/)

What exactly constitutes a tone poem is anybody's guess. A narrow description will mean leaving aside vast quantities of orchestral works, great and small, that have some elements of pictorial description - even mathematical equations !

Quote from: André on February 06, 2018, 04:34:44 AM
Thalaba is quite good, despite its hollywoodian title.

I do think Ghostbusters . . . .

Three old friends....(somewhere between Debussy, Respighi and Hollywood/Steiner/Tiomkin....).

https://www.youtube.com/v/b29hVwh2zIU

https://youtube.com/v/013HGwYumu0

https://www.youtube.com/v/Ie9yGilmVNk

And from the Belgian archives: Robert Herberigs "Cyrano de Bergerac"!!

http://www.robertherberigs.be/


https://www.youtube.com/v/jaNzoida8iI

P.

Koechlin, Vers la Voûte étoilée Op.129 (1923–33)

Quote from: bwv 1080 on February 05, 2018, 05:19:55 PM
Can Debussy's Nocturnes really be called a tone poem? Thought the term referred to single movement programmatic romantic orchestral  works.

I like most all of Liszt's, particularly  Les Preludes, Mazeppa, Prometheus and Festklange

It can be called three tone poems.  ;)

Quote from: vandermolen on February 06, 2018, 03:48:54 AM
Must listen to Bantock's 'Thalaba the Destroyer' after two recommendations here. Lyatoshinsy's 'Grazhyna' is a very fine work.

It's glorious. Think of brooding. heroic B minor works such as Tchaikovsky's Manfred (particularly the first movement) and Gliere's Il'ya Muromets symphonies. And Vernon Handley's recording is stunning. Absolutely cataclysmic percussion!

Quote from: pjme on February 06, 2018, 04:55:07 AM
Three old friends....(somewhere between Debussy, Respighi and Hollywood/Steiner/Tiomkin....).

https://www.youtube.com/v/b29hVwh2zIU https://youtube.com/v/013HGwYumu0 https://www.youtube.com/v/Ie9yGilmVNk

And from the Belgian archives: Robert Herberigs "Cyrano de Bergerac"!!
http://www.robertherberigs.be 
https://www.youtube.com/v/jaNzoida8iI

P.

As so often, dear Peter, your contribution is the most original and well-informed. Many thanks, will listen to these four tone poems I don't know yet.  ;D

Many thanks!  :) Just three orchestral works I happen to know & like.

as a teenager I was already curiuous about all those "forgotten/minor/second rank/exotic"... composers that quite often, it appeared, were able to write -at least- interesting and/or well crafted music.

In his article on Florence Price, Alex Ross writes:

"In progressive musicological circles these days, you hear much talk about the canon and about the bad assumptions that underpin it. Classical music, perhaps more than any other field, suffers from what the acidulous critic-composer Virgil Thomson liked to call the "masterpiece cult." He complained about the idea of an "unbridgeable chasm between 'great work' and the rest of production . . . a distinction as radical as that recognized in theology between the elect and the damned." The adulation of the master, the genius, the divinely gifted creator all too easily lapses into a cult of the white-male hero, to whom such traits are almost unthinkingly attached.
I feel some ambivalence about the anti-masterpiece line. Having grown up with the notion of musical genius, I am reluctant to let it go entirely. What I value most as a listener is the sense of a singular creative personality coalescing from anonymous sounds. I wonder whether the profile of genius could simply evolve to include a broader range of personalities and faces. But there's no doubt that the jargon of greatness has become musty, and more than a little toxic.
I recently had a social-media exchange with the Harvard-based scholar Anne Shreffler, who wrote of instilling different values in her classes. She said, "Instead of telling students it's Great, you can say it's worth their while: historically fascinating, well crafted, genre bending, or just listen-to-this-amazing-moment-at-the-end. Rather than a religious icon." If we are going to treat music as a full-fledged art form—and, surprisingly often, we don't—we need to be open to the bewildering richness of everything that has been written during the past thousand years. To reduce music history to a pageant of masters is, at bottom, lazy. We stick with the known in order to avoid the hard work of exploring the unknown."

Let it be clear, I have no intention at all to start a discussion on greatness and genius. But over ca. 45 years I "worked hard" to explore some sides of "the unknown". The neglect of Belgian composers (both Walloon and Flemish ones) was, I suppose, my main inspiration source. I could do more, of course...who nows, in the future.
And, entre temps, I happily work my ways through the mysterious realms of Frau Musica - from polyphony to Schütz, Bach and Mozart. and Haydn, Bruckner and Strauss, Ligeti and Matthijs Vermeulen, and Peter Schat, Jolivet, Roy Harris ... Schubert, Mahler... life is really to short. :)

P.

Ps: Herberigs is interesting - not much on cd.
A heady mix of Richard Strauss , Debussy and "sturdy Flemish expressionism" in later works. He was a writer, a painter and cultived apricots in the south of France! Lots of music in the radio archives - alas in old and often not too well prepared performances.

http://www.robertherberigs.be/

The shortness of life organizes everything.

I have tried to free myself from getting too wrapped up in 'masterpieces' and 'genius.' In essence, when I find some time to listen, I have a choice. Do I get out something I am already familiar with (Brahms' 4th, Mozart PC 23, Die Kunst der Fuge, Beethoven Op 127) or do I get out something new or unfamiliar to me (a piece I've never heard, or vaguely remember listening to years ago). What is more likely to produce a rewarding experience?

Lately it's 50/50 what I choose. The last two days I've been coming back to some Karajan/Berlin recordings of Strauss Metamorphosen and Beethoven Op 133 from the 60's. Sometimes I feel like luxuriating in the familiar. Before that it was some Roussel ballet music I'm not sure I ever listened to before.

And, to the subject at hand, hard to say. It seems to me that everything is a tone poem, and things named 'tone poem' are just absolute music where there is a suggestion as to what association you might make with it.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 06, 2018, 03:48:54 AM
Must listen to Bantock's 'Thalaba the Destroyer' after two recommendations here. Lyatoshinsky's 'Grazhyna' is a very fine work.

Quote from: André on February 06, 2018, 04:34:44 AM
Thalaba is quite good, despite its hollywoodian title. The box of Bantock orchestral works is a fount of delights.

Quote from: Maestro267 on February 06, 2018, 08:23:42 AM
It's glorious. Think of brooding. heroic B minor works such as Tchaikovsky's Manfred (particularly the first movement) and Gliere's Il'ya Muromets symphonies. And Vernon Handley's recording is stunning. Absolutely cataclysmic percussion!

Completely agreed on the 3 statements.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 06, 2018, 05:04:43 AM
Koechlin, Vers la Voûte étoilée Op.129 (1923–33)

Ah...yup! Great work.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Griffes' The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan certainly applies here:

https://www.youtube.com/v/UBFpEpJc7PU

Another one I like a lot is David Diamond's The Enormous Room.

Yes! Will listen today .

(https://img.discogs.com/hgKaMSG45Cq6wbMzj-cPZTJrgjY=/fit-in/600x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5400191-1392422870-7800.jpeg.jpg)

I tend to find it troublesome to work out which [orchestral] pieces I enjoy are 'tone poems' or 'symphonic poems' and which ones are not. Where does something like Lontano fit? Or Gruppen? Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima? What about Biber's Battalia—composed well before the historical notion of symphonische dichtung as a progressive development of symphonic form? All these pieces, and of course pieces like Eine Alpensinfonie and Tapiola, are wonderful pieces to listen to. They explore matters of orchestration and sound marvellously. None of the compositions necessarily used classical forms as the primary means to inform the creative process like some symphonies do. Some of the time, a non-musical source influenced the formal and aural creative processes. Most of the time the composers of these works would have had issues regarding sound itself as the primary focus of the works' creation.

I think I know what a tone poem/symphonic poem is, but there is something just a little bit arbitrary about the non-musical element which I find limiting when I want to include some of my other favourite single-movement orchestral works.

Quote from: jessop on February 07, 2018, 12:01:45 AM
I tend to find it troublesome to work out which [orchestral] pieces I enjoy are 'tone poems' or 'symphonic poems' and which ones are not. Where does something like Lontano fit? Or Gruppen? Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima? What about Biber's Battalia—composed well before the historical notion of symphonische dichtung as a progressive development of symphonic form? All these pieces, and of course pieces like Eine Alpensinfonie and Tapiola, are wonderful pieces to listen to. They explore matters of orchestration and sound marvellously. None of the compositions necessarily used classical forms as the primary means to inform the creative process like some symphonies do. Some of the time, a non-musical source influenced the formal and aural creative processes. Most of the time the composers of these works would have had issues regarding sound itself as the primary focus of the works' creation.

I think I know what a tone poem/symphonic poem is, but there is something just a little bit arbitrary about the non-musical element which I find limiting when I want to include some of my other favourite single-movement orchestral works.

Easy solution: include them. I was thinking of mentioning Les Espaces acoustiques, myself.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 06, 2018, 05:16:44 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Griffes' The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan certainly applies here:

https://www.youtube.com/v/UBFpEpJc7PU

I've just bought a CD with Howard Hanson conducting the work which I'm looking forward to hearing.

Quote from: Christo on February 06, 2018, 08:29:30 AM
As so often, dear Peter, your contribution is the most original and well-informed. Many thanks, will listen to these four tone poems I don't know yet.  ;D

Nice to hear the Loeffler again. My favourite work on the Koch CD is the one not mentioned on the front of the CD - 'The Masks' by Ronald Lo Presti (thanks to jowcol for alerting me to this fine and under appreciated composer)

Here are some favourite tone poems, off the top of my head:

Lyatoshinsky: Grazhnya
Bax: Tintagel, Nympholept, November Woods
Mcewan: Where the Wild Thyme Blows
Lilburn: A Song of the Islands
Rachmaninov: The Isle of the Dead
Reger: The Isle of the Dead and The Old Violinist (from the Bocklin Suite)
Holst: Egdon Heath
Tchaikovsky: Francesca da Rimini
Sibelius: Tapiola, The Bard, The Oceanides
Alwyn: The Magic Island
Hanson: Pan and the Priest
Koechlin: Vers la Voute etoilee
Miaskovsky: Silence
Meulemans 'Pliny's Fountain'
Moeran: In the Mountain Country
Ciurlionis: The Sea
Glazunov: Stenka Razin
Farrar: English Pastoral Impressions, Heroic Elegy.
Ireland: Mai-Dun, The Forgotten Rite
Novak: In the Tatra Mountains

For one thing, tone poems and symphonic poems are exactly the same thing. Just Liszt called them symphonic and Strauss called them tone. End of.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 07, 2018, 01:11:19 AM
I've just bought a CD with Howard Hanson conducting the work which I'm looking forward to hearing.

That should be good, Jeffrey. I own it one of those Mercury Living Presence boxes.

https://www.youtube.com/v/wkGPPrDgwyg

Great! And this a French "Concert de Noël enregistré le 16 décembre 2016 "!!.  good work Mikko!

P.

I dreamt of a strange and alien planet traversed by a pitilessly hot sun. It was basically a desert landscape. The remarkable thing was, I seemed to be seeing every single grain of sand separately, not only in its spatial dimensions but also – somehow – sensed its individual weight. All was in slow, ineluctable motion. Between sharply contoured rocks scuttled tiny, scorpion-like creatures. One senses the extreme complexity but inevitability of this strange combination of leaden, slowly-moving sand and sudden flashes of intensely coloured movement.
When I then discovered the Matta I immediately recollected the dream; a very short while later I had created the basic outline and world of sensible values for the orchestral work which then arose.

https://www.youtube.com/v/qxbpF_aW4vU

Quote from: vandermolen on February 07, 2018, 01:23:02 AM
Nice to hear the Loeffler again. My favourite work on the Koch CD is the one not mentioned on the front of the CD - 'The Masks' by Ronald Lo Presti (thanks to jowcol for alerting me to this fine and under appreciated composer)

Here are some favourite tone poems, off the top of my head:

Lyatoshinsky: Grazhnya
Bax: Tintagel, Nympholept, November Woods
Mcewan: Where the Wild Thyme Blows
Lilburn: A Song of the Islands
Rachmaninov: The Isle of the Dead
Reger: The Isle of the Dead and The Old Violinist (from the Bocklin Suite)
Holst: Egdon Heath
Tchaikovsky: Francesca da Rimini
Sibelius: Tapiola, The Bard, The Oceanides
Alwyn: The Magic Island
Hanson: Pan and the Priest
Koechlin: Vers la Voute etoilee
Miaskovsky: Silence
Meulemans 'Pliny's Fountain'
Moeran: In the Mountain Country
Ciurlionis: The Sea
Glazunov: Stenka Razin
Farrar: English Pastoral Impressions, Heroic Elegy.
Ireland: Mai-Dun, The Forgotten Rite
Novak: In the Tatra Mountains

A very substantial list. There are some of them I don't know yet (Meulemans, Miaskovsky, Alwyn, Lilburn, Hanson), which I have to investigate. I had forgotten Stenka Razin, In the Tatra Mountains, and Tintagel (all of them are excellent of course). I should have included more tone poems by Sibelius (Pohjola's Daughter, The Oceanides, Tapiola, Spring Song).

The Enormous Room and The Pleasure Dome of Kublai Khan are other tone poems I should investigate. Oh God, how much music to discover!!!  ::)

The more I read, the more I find great suggestions  :D . The discussion on what is a tone/symphonic poem is also very enriching. 

I think there is a difference between the two terms, 'symphonic poem' being somewhat self-explanatory, whereas tone poem (or 'poem in sound') is both wider in scope and vaguer in its structure and instrumentation. Can compositions for strings such as Metamorphosen, Rakastava or Verklärte Nacht or Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima be called tone poems, for example ?

Quote from: André on February 07, 2018, 04:55:11 PM
The more I read, the more I find great suggestions  :D . The discussion on what is a tone/symphonic poem is also very enriching. 

I think there is a difference between the two terms, 'symphonic poem' being somewhat self-explanatory, whereas tone poem (or 'poem in sound') is both wider in scope and vaguer in its structure and instrumentation. Can compositions for strings such as Metamorphosen, Rakastava or Verklärte Nacht or Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima be called tone poems, for example ?

I think all of these except for the last were composed with at least some non-musical inspiration that makes it appropriate to describe them as 'tone poems'

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 07, 2018, 12:10:31 PM
A very substantial list. There are some of them I don't know yet (Meulemans, Miaskovsky, Alwyn, Lilburn, Hanson), which I have to investigate. I had forgotten Stenka Razin, In the Tatra Mountains, and Tintagel (all of them are excellent of course). I should have included more tone poems by Sibelius (Pohjola's Daughter, The Oceanides, Tapiola, Spring Song).

I'm sure you'll enjoy getting to know them. Meulemans's 'Pliny's Fountain' is especially beautiful as far as I'm concerned.

Some favorites:

Sibelius: The Wood Nymph (my favorite tone poem of his, so underrated), Tapiola, Night Ride and Sunrise, En Saga, The Oceanides, Spring Song
Strauss: Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Don Juan, Tod und Verklärung, Don Quixote
Liszt: Les préludes, Tasso
Respighi: Roman Trilogy, Church Windows
Tchaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet*, Francesca da Rimini, The Tempest
Rachmaninoff: The Isle of the Dead, The Rock
Dvorak: The Noon Witch, The Water Goblin, The Wood Dove
Elgar: Cockaigne*, In the South (Alassio)*
Saint-Saëns: Phaëton
Gershwin: An American in Paris
Zemlinsky: Der Seejungfrau
Reger: Four Tone Poems after Arnold Böcklin
Scriabin: Le Poème de l'extase
Glazunov: Stenka Razin, The Sea, Oriental Rhapsody
Lyadov: The Enchanted Lake, Baba-Yaga, From the Apocalypse
Shostakovich: October
Prokofiev: Dreams
Vaughan Williams: In the Fen Country
Bax: Tintagel, November Woods, The Garden of Fand
Holst: Egdon Heath, Indra
Delius: Paris: The Song of a Great City, North Country Sketches, Eventyr (Once Upon a Time)
Revueltas: Sensemayá
Atterberg: The River – From the Mountains to the Sea
Balakirev: Tamara
Hanson: Pan and the Priest
Lyatoshinsky: Grazyna
Hurum: Bendik og Årolilja
Lazzari: Effet du nuit
Martinů: Vanishing Midnight
Kallstenius: En serenad i sommarnatten
Schoeck: Sommernacht (for string orchestra)
Suk: Fairy Tale
Marx: Feste im Herbst
Magnard: Hymne à la justice
Sanjuán: Castilla

*indicates works which are titled "overtures" but feel more like tone poems to me

Quote from: kyjo on February 10, 2018, 09:30:48 PM
Some favorites:

Sibelius: The Wood Nymph (my favorite tone poem of his, so underrated), Tapiola, Night Ride and Sunrise, En Saga, The Oceanides, Spring Song
Strauss: Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Don Juan, Tod und Verklärung, Don Quixote
Liszt: Les préludes, Tasso
Respighi: Roman Trilogy, Church Windows
Tchaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet*, Francesca da Rimini, The Tempest
Rachmaninoff: The Isle of the Dead, The Rock
Dvorak: The Noon Witch, The Water Goblin, The Wood Dove
Elgar: Cockaigne*, In the South (Alassio)*
Saint-Saëns: Phaëton
Gershwin: An American in Paris
Zemlinsky: Der Seejungfrau
Reger: Four Tone Poems after Arnold Böcklin
Scriabin: Le Poème de l'extase
Glazunov: Stenka Razin, The Sea, Oriental Rhapsody
Lyadov: The Enchanted Lake, Baba-Yaga, From the Apocalypse
Shostakovich: October
Prokofiev: Dreams
Vaughan Williams: In the Fen Country
Bax: Tintagel, November Woods, The Garden of Fand
Holst: Egdon Heath, Indra
Delius: Paris: The Song of a Great City, North Country Sketches, Eventyr (Once Upon a Time)
Revueltas: Sensemayá
Atterberg: The River – From the Mountains to the Sea
Balakirev: Tamara
Hanson: Pan and the Priest
Lyatoshinsky: Grazyna
Hurum: Bendik og Årolilja
Lazzari: Effet du nuit
Martinů: Vanishing Midnight
Kallstenius: En serenad i sommarnatten
Schoeck: Sommernacht (for string orchestra)
Suk: Fairy Tale
Marx: Feste im Herbst
Magnard: Hymne à la justice

*indicates works which are titled "overtures" but feel more like tone poems to me

What a terrific list Kyle! I shall be revisiting The Wood Nymph which I noticed in my collection a couple of days ago. I should also have included the Lyadov works not to mention An American in Paris which is a wonderful work and my favourite by Gershwin. Also I was going to included the Hurum but couldn't remember how to spell it! His Symphony is marvellous. Had he been based in Europe I'm sure that he would be better known. Also a thumbs up for Magnard although 'Chant Funebre' is my favourite of his shorter works. 'In Memoriam' by Sibelius gets a vote from me as well as many of the others on your list. The opening of the Zemlinsky Mermaid score is absolutely beautiful as well. Must inverstigate 'The River' by Atterberg which I don't know at all  :o

+ 1 : what a list, Kyle ! Glad to see a mention for Kallstenius' beautiful work, a real sleeper  :).

Tippett's The Rose Lake, I think, should apply here.

Quote from: kyjo on February 10, 2018, 09:30:48 PM
Some favorites:

Sibelius: The Wood Nymph (my favorite tone poem of his, so underrated), Tapiola, Night Ride and Sunrise, En Saga, The Oceanides, Spring Song
Strauss: Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Don Juan, Tod und Verklärung, Don Quixote
Liszt: Les préludes, Tasso
Respighi: Roman Trilogy, Church Windows
Tchaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet*, Francesca da Rimini, The Tempest
Rachmaninoff: The Isle of the Dead, The Rock
Dvorak: The Noon Witch, The Water Goblin, The Wood Dove
Elgar: Cockaigne*, In the South (Alassio)*
Saint-Saëns: Phaëton
Gershwin: An American in Paris
Zemlinsky: Der Seejungfrau
Reger: Four Tone Poems after Arnold Böcklin
Scriabin: Le Poème de l'extase
Glazunov: Stenka Razin, The Sea, Oriental Rhapsody
Lyadov: The Enchanted Lake, Baba-Yaga, From the Apocalypse
Shostakovich: October
Prokofiev: Dreams
Vaughan Williams: In the Fen Country
Bax: Tintagel, November Woods, The Garden of Fand
Holst: Egdon Heath, Indra
Delius: Paris: The Song of a Great City, North Country Sketches, Eventyr (Once Upon a Time)
Revueltas: Sensemayá
Atterberg: The River – From the Mountains to the Sea
Balakirev: Tamara
Hanson: Pan and the Priest
Lyatoshinsky: Grazyna
Hurum: Bendik og Årolilja
Lazzari: Effet du nuit
Martinů: Vanishing Midnight
Kallstenius: En serenad i sommarnatten
Schoeck: Sommernacht (for string orchestra)
Suk: Fairy Tale
Marx: Feste im Herbst
Magnard: Hymne à la justice
Sanjuán: Castilla

*indicates works which are titled "overtures" but feel more like tone poems to me

There are so many pieces I forgot. Practically, many works don't bear the 'tone poem/symphonic poem' label on them, but they are depicting something. I listened to Schoeck's Sommernacht some weeks ago: it's an incredible piece, very sensual and suggestive. I agree with you about The Wood Nymph, the whole piece is mindblowing and the ending is so dramatic! Holst's Indra is ravishing, the same applies for Glazunov's The Sea. How I could forget 'Vetrate di Chiesa'!!

In conclusion, very nice list. I like the majority of works on it.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 10, 2018, 11:35:07 PMMust inverstigate 'The River' by Atterberg which I don't know at all  :o

This is quite surprising, Jeffrey. I'm assuming you own the CPO set of symphonies? It's in that set (coupled with the 9th symphony).

Quote from: vandermolen on February 10, 2018, 11:35:07 PM
What a terrific list Kyle! I shall be revisiting The Wood Nymph which I noticed in my collection a couple of days ago. I should also have included the Lyadov works not to mention An American in Paris which is a wonderful work and my favourite by Gershwin. Also I was going to included the Hurum but couldn't remember how to spell it! His Symphony is marvellous. Had he been based in Europe I'm sure that he would be better known. Also a thumbs up for Magnard although 'Chant Funebre' is my favourite of his shorter works. 'In Memoriam' by Sibelius gets a vote from me as well as many of the others on your list. The opening of the Zemlinsky Mermaid score is absolutely beautiful as well. Must inverstigate 'The River' by Atterberg which I don't know at all  :o

Thanks, Jeffrey! Please do report back once you've revisited 'The Wood Nymph' - a terrifically powerful score and one of my favorite Sibelius works. Indeed, Hurum's Symphony is marvelous and the Simax disc containing it, 'Bendik og Årolilja', and his String Quartet is a real favorite of mine. It's a pity he didn't compose more music. I must investigate Magnard's 'Chant funebre' and Sibelius' 'In memoriam' which I don't know. I think the entirety of Zemlinsky's 'The Mermaid' is absolutely gorgeous. And yes, Atterberg's 'The River' is a must-hear for anyone who enjoys his symphonies!

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 11, 2018, 11:26:03 AM
There are so many pieces I forgot. Practically, many works don't bear the 'tone poem/symphonic poem' label on them, but they are depicting something. I listened to Schoeck's Sommernacht some weeks ago: it's an incredible piece, very sensual and suggestive. I agree with you about The Wood Nymph, the whole piece is mindblowing and the ending is so dramatic! Holst's Indra is ravishing, the same applies for Glazunov's The Sea. How I could forget 'Vetrate di Chiesa'!!

In conclusion, very nice list. I like the majority of works on it.

Thanks, Caesar! I totally agree with you about the works you mention.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 11, 2018, 12:27:03 PM
This is quite surprising, Jeffrey. I'm assuming you own the CPO set of symphonies? It's in that set (coupled with the 9th symphony).

You're quite right John. I realise that the reason I have ignored 'The River' is indeed because it was coupled with Atterberg's Symphony 9 which I hardly ever play as I don't like it very much. Still, I have that CD in front of me now and will be playing it later today I hope.

Quote from: kyjo on February 11, 2018, 02:01:08 PM
Thanks, Jeffrey! Please do report back once you've revisited 'The Wood Nymph' - a terrifically powerful score and one of my favorite Sibelius works. Indeed, Hurum's Symphony is marvelous and the Simax disc containing it, 'Bendik og Årolilja', and his String Quartet is a real favorite of mine. It's a pity he didn't compose more music. I must investigate Magnard's 'Chant funebre' and Sibelius' 'In memoriam' which I don't know. I think the entirety of Zemlinsky's 'The Mermaid' is absolutely gorgeous. And yes, Atterberg's 'The River' is a must-hear for anyone who enjoys his symphonies!

I will do Kyle, although I have to find the CD first  ::).
Yes that Hurum CD is very special and do look out for 'In Memoriam' - a doom-laden work which really appeals to me!
:)

PS added later. Well, 'The River' by Atterberg is terrific I must say, especially 'The Waterfalls' which has a very haunting section. I had to play the work again as soon as I heard it. I don't recall ever hearing it before. So many thanks Kyle and John for the recommendation. Still on the look out for 'The Wood Nymph' who currently eludes me. Also Holst's 'Indra'.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 12, 2018, 04:50:55 AM
You're quite right John. I realise that the reason I have ignored 'The River' is indeed because it was coupled with Atterberg's Symphony 9 which I hardly ever play as I don't like it very much. Still, I have that CD in front of me now and will be playing it later today I hope.

Excellent, Jeffrey! 8) I'm in the same boat with you about Atterberg's 9th. Never have cared for this symphony at all.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 12, 2018, 04:53:15 AM
I will do Kyle, although I have to find the CD first  ::).
Yes that Hurum CD is very special and do look out for 'In Memoriam' - a doom-laden work which really appeals to me!
:)

PS added later. Well, 'The River' by Atterberg is terrific I must say, especially 'The Waterfalls' which has a very haunting section. I had to play the work again as soon as I heard it. I don't recall ever hearing it before. So many thanks Kyle and John for the recommendation. Still on the look out for 'The Wood Nymph' who currently eludes me. Also Holst's 'Indra'.

Vandermolen - I revisited this disc recently

[asin]B0084OVZOY[/asin] which is really very good indeed.  Falletta's tenure in Ulster was curiously short - untold stories there for sure - but her couple of discs - this and the Moeran Cello concerto are very good.  The Holst comes up very well and enjoyable if unrecognisable as the work of this composer.  The Cotswald Symphony gets an airing that proves its worth an occasional outing too.  Isn't the Atterberg cinematic! (no bad thing)

Quote from: vandermolen on February 12, 2018, 04:53:15 AM
I will do Kyle, although I have to find the CD first  ::).
Yes that Hurum CD is very special and do look out for 'In Memoriam' - a doom-laden work which really appeals to me!
:)

PS added later. Well, 'The River' by Atterberg is terrific I must say, especially 'The Waterfalls' which has a very haunting section. I had to play the work again as soon as I heard it. I don't recall ever hearing it before. So many thanks Kyle and John for the recommendation. Still on the look out for 'The Wood Nymph' who currently eludes me. Also Holst's 'Indra'.

In the meantime, I highly recommend this recording of 'The Wood Nymph' by Vänskä and the Lahti SO: https://youtu.be/lizoxwiqN6E

It's available on this disc:

[asin]B00IU5PVQA[/asin]


So glad you enjoyed Atterberg's 'The River'! A really fine and atmospheric work for sure. I agree with you about the beauty of 'The Waterfalls' section. Also notable is 'The Harbor' section, which is unusually dissonant for Atterberg and is perhaps a satirical portrayal of "modernist" music of the time.

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 12, 2018, 06:56:30 AM
Excellent, Jeffrey! 8) I'm in the same boat with you about Atterberg's 9th. Never have cared for this symphony at all.

+1 It's certainly not a bad work, but it's easy to tell that Atterberg wasn't nearly as comfortable writing in the new, more "modern" style he tested in this work as in his typical lush, late-romantic style that we know and love.

Quote from: kyjo on February 12, 2018, 01:45:34 PM
+1 It's certainly not a bad work, but it's easy to tell that Atterberg wasn't nearly as comfortable writing in the new, more "modern" style he tested in this work as in his typical lush, late-romantic style that we know and love.

I noticed it has a chorus. Symphonies with a chorus are not my thing, so I never listened to it, though I have the cpo set.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on February 12, 2018, 07:43:44 AM
Vandermolen - I revisited this disc recently

[asin]B0084OVZOY[/asin] which is really very good indeed.  Falletta's tenure in Ulster was curiously short - untold stories there for sure - but her couple of discs - this and the Moeran Cello concerto are very good.  The Holst comes up very well and enjoyable if unrecognisable as the work of this composer.  The Cotswald Symphony gets an airing that proves its worth an occasional outing too.  Isn't the Atterberg cinematic! (no bad thing)

Thanks Roasted Swan but the image comes up blank on my screen. Is it the Naxos Holst CD with the Cotswolds Symphony (which I don't like very much)? If so I'm sure it's still worth having for the other items featured. Yes, the Moeran release was very good too.

Quote from: kyjo on February 12, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
In the meantime, I highly recommend this recording of 'The Wood Nymph' by Vänskä and the Lahti SO: https://youtu.be/lizoxwiqN6E

It's available on this disc:

[asin]B00IU5PVQA[/asin]


So glad you enjoyed Atterberg's 'The River'! A really fine and atmospheric work for sure. I agree with you about the beauty of 'The Waterfalls' section. Also notable is 'The Harbor' section, which is unusually dissonant for Atterberg and is perhaps a satirical portrayal of "modernist" music of the time.

Thanks Kyle. I have the earlier Vanska version which is currently in a pile of CDs somewhere - no doubt it will turn up soon. The CD you recommended looks really good but is incredibly expensive here (£50+  :o). So, I've ordered a version conducted by Douglas Bostock which was cheap and interested me.
https://www.amazon.com/Serenades-Karelia-Overture-Historiques-Finlandia/dp/B000S75C0S/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1518516586&sr=1-1&keywords=Bostock+Sibelius

Quote from: vandermolen on February 13, 2018, 12:51:11 AM
Thanks Roasted Swan but the image comes up blank on my screen. Is it the Naxos Holst CD with the Cotswolds Symphony (which I don't like very much)? If so I'm sure it's still worth having for the other items featured. Yes, the Moeran release was very good too.

Yes Vandermolen - that's the one.  Indra also appears on a Lyrita disc in typically dynamic Lyrita sound - its a tricky choice between the two because both are very fine and the programmes otherwise overlap a bit but not a lot.  Having the complete Cotswold symphony would tip me towards the Naxos/Falletta disc if really pushed.  The Holst curio I'm really waiting for someone to record is either the complete "Perfect Fool" or the early Sanskrit opera Sita which comes just before his first real masterpiece Savitri

Quote from: Roasted Swan on February 13, 2018, 01:13:27 AM
Yes Vandermolen - that's the one.  Indra also appears on a Lyrita disc in typically dynamic Lyrita sound - its a tricky choice between the two because both are very fine and the programmes otherwise overlap a bit but not a lot.  Having the complete Cotswold symphony would tip me towards the Naxos/Falletta disc if really pushed.  The Holst curio I'm really waiting for someone to record is either the complete "Perfect Fool" or the early Sanskrit opera Sita which comes just before his first real masterpiece Savitri

Thanks again Roasted Swan. Actually I have an Alto CD with the Cotswolds Symphony on which annoyingly does not include Indra but does include the magical 'Perfect Fool Ballet Music'. I'm sure I have the Lyrita CD somewhere. I'm having a big CD 'sort out' at the moment, so hopefully I'll come across it. The early work by Holst which I really like is the (in places) hauntingly atmospheric 'The Cloud Messenger' with its proto-minimalist section.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 13, 2018, 12:51:11 AM
Thanks Roasted Swan but the image comes up blank on my screen. Is it the Naxos Holst CD with the Cotswolds Symphony (which I don't like very much)? If so I'm sure it's still worth having for the other items featured. Yes, the Moeran release was very good too.

Here it is:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DXuW1Pk4L.jpg)

I'm not a fan of the Cotswolds Symphony either, but this disc is very much worth having for the colorful "Japanese Suite" and "Indra", which are among my favorite Holst works.

Quote from: kyjo on February 13, 2018, 09:24:08 AM
Here it is:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DXuW1Pk4L.jpg)

I'm not a fan of the Cotswolds Symphony either, but this disc is very much worth having for the colorful "Japanese Suite" and "Indra", which are among my favorite Holst works.

Thanks Kyle. I might get that one for Indra if I don't have the Lyrita recording.

Quote from: kyjo on February 13, 2018, 09:24:08 AMI'm not a fan of the Cotswolds Symphony either, but this disc is very much worth having for the colorful "Japanese Suite" and "Indra", which are among my favorite Holst works.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 13, 2018, 09:43:17 AMThanks Kyle. I might get that one for Indra if I don't have the Lyrita recording.

Because I'm not that much a fan of the early (1899-1900) Cotswolds Symphony either, and having Bostock's recording of it already, I never bought this Naxos CD. Following the advice of Imogen Holst, I never paid much attention to any pre-1910 Holst, not even to Indra, Symphonic Poem Op. 13 from 1903. But I have the Lyrita CD and will listen to it now, at your advice:  8)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81VtBZT0t-S._SY450_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51P7Sk06cIL.jpg)

Quote from: Christo on February 13, 2018, 10:40:25 AM
Because I'm not that much a fan of the early (1899-1900) Cotswolds Symphony either, and having Bostock's recording of it already, I never bought this Naxos CD. Following the advice of Imogen Holst, I never paid much attention to any pre-1910 Holst, not even to Indra, Symphonic Poem Op. 13 from 1903. But I have the Lyrita CD and will listen to it now, at your advice:  8)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81VtBZT0t-S._SY450_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51P7Sk06cIL.jpg)

Worry not - Indra is of significantly better quality IMO than his works composed a few years before it, such as the Cotswolds Symphony and the Walt Whitman Overture.

https://www.youtube.com/v/B3I7JMkK6bI

Has this suite (let's call it a tone poem!?) been performed since 1947?? I would love to hear it in good sound.

https://www.youtube.com/v/HfkpU8GKRoc

Arturo Toscanini cond/ NBC Symphony Orchestra (radio broadcast from 1947)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This orchestral suite was prepared by Toscanini himself, and this is, apparently, the only existing recording.
The suite roughly comprises two parts:
Act 1 beginning (0:00 - 19:17) and Act 2 Finale (19:17 - 21:13). However, there are a lot of cuts which were made to preserve a musical flow due to the lack of voices (in the first half at least). There are also a few cases of added instrumentation, more often than not to recreate the melodic line of the voices, but not always. So if you hear a trumpet but don't see any notes on the trumpet's staff, look at the vocal line, as the trumpet may be simply playing what would've been sung in the original opera.

And a Villa Lobos rarity: Naufragio de Kleonicos (1916)  - the music starts at 03.45

https://www.youtube.com/v/UIoJBtJgWL4

I enjoyed Bantock's powerful and brooding 'Thalaba the Destroyer' this morning, as recommended above.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 16, 2018, 10:43:10 PM
I enjoyed Bantock's powerful and brooding 'Thalaba the Destroyer' this morning, as recommended above.

Great! It's a thrilling piece with an exotic oriental touch (something I like so much in works).

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 17, 2018, 10:19:11 AM
Great! It's a thrilling piece with an exotic oriental touch (something I like so much in works).

I also greatly enjoyed 'Processional' and 'Camel Caravan' on the same CD. So many thanks for the recommendation Caesar.
:)

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 17, 2018, 10:19:11 AM
.....(with) an exotic oriental touch (something I like so much in works).

This may suit your taste!????

https://www.youtube.com/v/qj6CpqMGjG8

Quote from: vandermolen on February 18, 2018, 12:08:53 AM
I also greatly enjoyed 'Processional' and 'Camel Caravan' on the same CD. So many thanks for the recommendation Caesar.
:)

You're welcome! It's a great CD indeed, so is the rest of the set.

Quote from: pjme on February 19, 2018, 07:41:16 AM
This may suit your taste!????

https://www.youtube.com/v/qj6CpqMGjG8

I'm gonna listen to it this afternoon.

Just I listened to the suggestion of pjme (Cemal Resit Rey - The Conqueror). I didn't hear many oriental influences in the work.  From 11:00 on (more or less) the work began to be somewhat interesting. Neither excellent nor bad, just okay.

OK - I understand!  :)

I thought that the "entry of the Janissary army" , the battle, was more than "just a touch".

Anyway, Rey 's symphonic poem (a hommage to Mehmet II, the Ottoman sultan who conquered Constantinople in 1453) I find quite effective in its combination of (very,very late) late Romanticism (lushly cinematographic, quasi Respighian-Straussian etc.) and Janissary pomp!

I'm sure there are more Turkish composers you may like....

P.

Quote from: pjme on February 22, 2018, 01:08:06 AM
OK - I understand!  :)

I thought that the "entry of the Janissary army" , the battle, was more than "just a touch".

Anyway, Rey 's symphonic poem (a hommage to Mehmet II, the Ottoman sultan who conquered Constantinople in 1453) I find quite effective in its combination of (very,very late) late Romanticism (lushly cinematographic, quasi Respighian-Straussian etc.) and Janissary pomp!

I'm sure there are more Turkish composers you may like....

P.

Precisely that part was the most notorious (bolded text). Overall, being Rey a Turkish composer, I thought there would be more exoticism in that work (or maybe I'm being very demanding  ::) ). Anyway, possibly other works of his would appeal more to my tastes, who knows  :)

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed 'The Wood Nymph' by Sibelius (Douglas Bostock/Gothenburg-Aarhus Philharmonic). In fact I played it again as soon as I had heard it. It reminded me a bit of the Four Legends for Orchestra. Very enjoyable in all respects.

Listing some of my very favourites:

Sibelius: Pohjola's Daughter, Luonnotar, Lemminkäinen, Nightride and Sunrise, The Bard, En Saga, The Oceanides, Kullervo
R. Strauss: Tod und Verklärung, Alpensinfonie, Also Sprach Zarathustra, Heldenleben, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Aus Italien
Liszt: Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne, Heroïde funébre, Les préludes, Tasso, Faust Symphony
Rachmaninoff: The Rock, Prince Rostislav, Isle of the Dead
Dvorak: The Golden Spinning Wheel, The Water Goblin
Rimsky-Korsakov: Golden Cockerel suite, Scheherazade, Sadko, Snow Maiden Suite
Zemlinsky: Seejungfrau
Debussy: Prélude á l'aprés midi d'un faune, La mer
Wagner: Siegfried Idyll
Tchaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet
Bax: Into The Twilight, In the Faëry Hills

That'll do for now.

Quote from: Alberich on June 21, 2018, 09:07:53 AM
Listing some of my very favourites:

Sibelius: Pohjola's Daughter, Luonnotar, Lemminkäinen, Nightride and Sunrise, The Bard, En Saga, The Oceanides, Kullervo
R. Strauss: Tod und Verklärung, Alpensinfonie, Also Sprach Zarathustra, Heldenleben, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Aus Italien
Liszt: Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne, Heroïde funébre, Les préludes, Tasso, Faust Symphony
Rachmaninoff: The Rock, Prince Rostislav, Isle of the Dead
Dvorak: The Golden Spinning Wheel, The Water Goblin
Rimsky-Korsakov: Golden Cockerel suite, Scheherazade, Sadko, Snow Maiden Suite
Zemlinsky: Seejungfrau
Debussy: Prélude á l'aprés midi d'un faune, La mer
Wagner: Siegfried Idyll
Tchaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet
Bax: Into The Twilight, In the Faëry Hills

That'll do for now.

Agree with many of these. No 'Tapiola'?  :o

Was Bax's November Woods and Tintagel mentioned?

After all these years listening to Les Preludes - the granddaddy of them all, still sends chills down my spine, especially the HVK or Solti/LPO recordings.

César Franck's Le chasseur maudit (The Accursed Huntsman) is among my favourites. It's in the line of those scary encounters works such as the Ride to the Abyss (Berlioz), Erlkönig (Schubert), The Water Goblin (Dvorak), Tapiola (Sibelius), Tam O'Shanter (Arnold). I have a particular liking for those  >:D.

Quote from: vandermolen on June 22, 2018, 01:47:11 PM
Agree with many of these. No 'Tapiola'?  :o

I still like Tapiola but nowadays, while I respect enormously the way the motives develop, I find the instrumentation a bit dull. Nothing personal.

Damn, just realized I forgot to mention Saint-Saëns's Danse macabre.