I have listened to Giya Kancheli today, and am mightily impressed.
I am interested in his Orchestral and Chamberworks.
Need advise in this.
You've heard enough. I got several Kancheli Symphonies, as well as other works (heard a couple in their world premieres even), and in my book they represent the typical end-of-20-th-century "Betroffenheitsmusik" (don't know which translation would best describe it).
Quote from: sound67 on September 07, 2007, 05:16:09 AM
You've heard enough. I got several Kancheli Symphonies, as well as other works (heard a couple in their world premieres even), and in my book they represent the typical end-of-20-th-century "Betroffenheitsmusik" (don't know which translation would best describe it).
Thanks Thomas, I appriciate your opinion.
I ordered another Kancheli disc on the label Ondine.
From there I will see where to go.
I understand and speak German fluently, and you are right its difficult to translate.
For the most part, I think the symphonies are the best of Kancheli, particularly when conducted by Djansug Kakhidze. (I'm less attached to 1, 2 and 7 than to the other four, though.)
The later work often leaves me cold--the cliches Kancheli narrowly avoids in the earlier works are often embraced wholeheartedly in them. Much of it is available on ECM--I find Lament the best of his later works, though ...a la duduki... is also fine.
Quote from: edward on September 07, 2007, 05:27:28 AM
For the most part, I think the symphonies are the best of Kancheli, particularly when conducted by Djansug Kakhidze. (
Thanks Edward! Could you somewhat elaborate on the sound quality, and the performance as a whole of these recordings.
Many thanks.
So I take it he's end of the 20th century eh? What's his style?
Quote from: Harry on September 07, 2007, 05:29:30 AM
Thanks Edward! Could you somewhat elaborate on the sound quality, and the performance as a whole of these recordings.
Many thanks.
Kakhidze's recordings tend to use slower tempi than other conductors, and tend to emphasise the contrasts between the slow, monodic melodies and the violent outbursts. The sound quality is fine in all of Kakhidze's readings that I've heard.
Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2007, 03:37:11 PM
So I take it he's end of the 20th century eh? What's his style?
Yes. His style was initially based around opposition of slow, very quiet folk-like monody and brutalist marches. In his earlier works the tension was often ratcheted up by approaching sentimental, cliched cadences but turning away from them at the last moment, in more recent works he's tended to embrace these cliches and downplay the brutalism somewhat.
I remember hearing his Viola Concerto "Vom Winde beweint" (Mourned by the Wind) in its German premiere with Kim Kashkashian and the Bonn Beethovenhalle Symphony Orchestra under Dennis Russell Davies (they also recorded it for ECM) many years ago. Your description of Kancheli's later style is absolutely accurate. Just what I meant when I wrote "Betroffenheitsmusik" (I would count e.g. Panufnik's Katyn Epitaph and some of Gorecki's and Kilar's works among this "group").
Thomas
Quote from: sound67 on September 07, 2007, 11:54:49 PM
I remember hearing his Viola Concerto "Vom Winde beweint" (Mourned by the Wind) in its German premiere with Kim Kashkashian and the Bonn Beethovenhalle Symphony Orchestra under Dennis Russell Davies (they also recorded it for ECM) many years ago. Your description of Kancheli's later style is absolutely accurate. Just what I meant when I wrote "Betroffenheitsmusik" (I would count e.g. Panufnik's Katyn Epitaph and some of Gorecki's and Kilar's works among this "group").
Thomas
And I remember
giving the British premiere of this same piece! :D (Well, taking part, anyway). I had that ECM CD already, and the conductor, Martyn Brabbins, had only studied the score, not heard the work, so I lent it to him during rehearsals...
Anyway, that piece has always struck me as one of Kancheli's finest, superior even to his symphonies, which are generally held to be his most successful group of of pieces. I tend to agree, though, that his later pieces, including quite a few, though not all, of those issued by ECM since their Vom Winde beweint disc, are less impressive. I like ...a la duduki.... very much (fantastic aural imagination), and its companion piece Trauerfarbenes Land is an intense work; the Lament Edward mentions is also fine, and Simi, as recorded by Rostropovich, seems rather fine too. But I find the viola concerto Styx (on DG) pretty repugnant, I must say, and most of the other pieces on the ECM issues fairly bland and flaccid.
So I'd stick to the symphonies, no 1 being the least 'Kanchelian' of them, to Vom Winde beweint (try to get hold of the Bashmet recording, coupled with Bright Sorrow, another of his finer pieces), and to two or three of the ECM discs: Lament; ...a la duduki; perhaps Simi.
There is a weird and not-always-wonderful disc of Kancheli's film music, which at times demonstrates how easily Kancheli's style adapts itself to a more sentimental, sometimes saccharine sound (funnily enough, though, these are not 'late' pieces AFAIK, and they tend to show that this sort of thing has always been close to the surface in his music). The most interesting thing on that disc, for me, is a series of choral pieces in the Georgian folk music style which sound indistinguishable from the real thing to my ears, and are actually extremely fine, I think.
Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2007, 03:37:11 PM
So I take it he's end of the 20th century eh? What's his style?
I hope you are well satisfied with the answer Edward gave, that about sums it up.
Let me add that his scoring is something I revel in. Very concentrated writing.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on September 08, 2007, 01:41:05 AM
And I remember giving the British premiere of this same piece! :D (Well, taking part, anyway). I had that ECM CD already, and the conductor, Martyn Brabbins, had only studied the score, not heard the work, so I lent it to him during rehearsals...
Anyway, that piece has always struck me as one of Kancheli's finest, superior even to his symphonies, which are generally held to be his most successful group of of pieces. I tend to agree, though, that his later pieces, including quite a few, though not all, of those issued by ECM since their Vom Winde beweint disc, are less impressive. I like ...a la duduki.... very much (fantastic aural imagination), and its companion piece Trauerfarbenes Land is an intense work; the Lament Edward mentions is also fine, and Simi, as recorded by Rostropovich, seems rather fine too. But I find the viola concerto Styx (on DG) pretty repugnant, I must say, and most of the other pieces on the ECM issues fairly bland and flaccid.
So I'd stick to the symphonies, no 1 being the least 'Kanchelian' of them, to Vom Winde beweint (try to get hold of the Bashmet recording, coupled with Bright Sorrow, another of his finer pieces), and to two or three of the ECM discs: Lament; ...a la duduki; perhaps Simi.
There is a weird and not-always-wonderful disc of Kancheli's film music, which at times demonstrates how easily Kancheli's style adapts itself to a more sentimental, sometimes saccharine sound (funnily enough, though, these are not 'late' pieces AFAIK, and they tend to show that this sort of thing has always been close to the surface in his music). The most interesting thing on that disc, for me, is a series of choral pieces in the Georgian folk music style which sound indistinguishable from the real thing to my ears, and are actually extremely fine, I think.
Thank you, learned a lot from your post.
Also from Edward, thank you both.
Giya Kancheli Symphony 6 and 7/KAKHIDZE - no image available
This disc has been lurking and gathering dust in my collection - i must be honest im afraid of playing because it is so psychotic but thought would risk it :o
Much has been said about Kanchelis dynamic range and these two symphonies are prime examples - much of six has great beauty but is interspersed with shattering outbursts - would really like to know his motivations in his compositions - does anyone else have problems with this composer - i started listening to above with headphones but quickly switched to speaker
>:D
Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2007, 03:37:11 PM
So I take it he's end of the 20th century eh? What's his style?
East European depressive, like some of Schnittke and Godar, but with long periods of near-inaudibility followed by deafening outbursts, a trait for which he is often, and I think rightly, mocked.
To be fair, dynamic changes like that work far better in the concert hall.
Quote
What's his style?
East European depressive.
Good one :D I need to remember that...
He's not really eastern European, but from the republic of Georgia,
which is more middle eastern than european.It's a fascinating country,with an ancient history,traditions and its own weird language with its own weird-looking alphabet.
Did you know for example, that in Georgian, Deda means mother, and mama means father? I'm not kidding!
I have a Sony CD of two of his symphonies. The sudden constrasts of loud and soft are really strange. The CD even comes with a warning about this!
I've never even listened to Kancheli, ever, and just decided to look him up today! :o
So I found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyD_L5G_AFs&feature=related
and was pleasantly surprised.
I'd recommend you try this one too, as Styx is maybe a poor example of how seriously Kancheli used to take composition (it's kind of garish):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djvQ-zryBkU
Quote from: Lethe on March 04, 2010, 02:17:12 PM
I'd recommend you try this one too, as Styx is maybe a poor example of how seriously Kancheli used to take composition (it's kind of garish):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djvQ-zryBkU
That was pretty good. They have some of his other symphonies on youtube- I think I'll check them out, too. Is this one your favorite (out of the symphonies)?
Yep, although 6 is just as good. It kind of goes:
1-2: Decent, but unrepresentetive early works
3: A big change, if I recall it has some folk influences mixed with a lot of marches, less organic or sophisticated than the later ones, but visceral
4-6: All excellent, with most people finding the 6th to be his best
7: Quite disappointing, but the time he wrote this he was in his decline where he kind of made sugary parodies of himself. It's still decent music if you don't expect to respect it
My first Kancheli experience was the Styx months ago (with Maxim Rysanov on Onyx CD) and I found it beautiful. Later I bought an ECM CD with Diplipito and Valse Boston but they are not impressed me so much. (But now I like Valse Boston.)
There was a contemporary music festival in Hungary last weekend and there was a premiere of a new Kancheli work called Tranquillo for Small Ensemble (dedicated to the festival). Klangforum Wien played it marvelously. It was beautiful but I missed the big outbursts.
Kancheli was there and he dedicated the ECM CD. $:)
I haven't heard his symphonies but based on your experience I am curious about them.
Can't say I'm fond of Kancheli's music. One of the most distracting things about his music is the extreme dynamic range of the music. One minute there's silence, then the next minute your eardrum is blown out. You always have to keep the volume knob in check with his music and this is a slight against his music not the conductors/orchestras who have performed his music. He's had some impressive advocates. Too bad I can't say the music is impressive as well. :-\
I think there's a few pieces that are worth it, though if you live in a busy city it can be hard to find a volume setting that renders the pp passages audible and the ff passages non-pain-inducing.
Symphonies 3-6 are the pick of his work to me; the best recordings I've heard of all four are with Kakhidze conducting (the earlier 6th on Olympia, now long out of print, is greatly to be preferred to his Sony remake). I used to have a bootleg of his contemporaneous--but unrecorded--opera Music for the Living on an old computer; it's a violently nihilistic piece but the poor sound quality prevented me from making any judgement on the quality of the music.
The more recent music has impressed me much less: a lot of the tension in the symphonies was brought about by setting up opportunities for conventional, cliched cadences, then denying them--but more recent work tends to accept these opportunities, often in a very banal manner. Every now and then, something of the old fire shows up (for example, in Lament), but the post-symphonic Kancheli tends to the rather routine for me.
(Mourned by the Wind is another post-symphony piece that's worth hearing; it's definitely in the "new" Kancheli style, but the first movement, at least, is one the finest things he's done: a very simple idea--music moving slowly from bass to treble--but superbly executed.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ItDzss0vfs
This no doubt Piazzolla-inspired work is something cute by Kancheli.
I blame Penguin Guide for turning me on to Kancheli. The Thread prompted me to check the Discography (I used to have the Olympia discs), and, yea, Kancheli isn't doing it for me anymore. The painfully loud/too quiet thing is just bitch-slap-inducing to me. It's what I didn't like about Traditional Classical Music, and, in its Post Modern context, just 'look=at=me= annoying.
I like my smooth music smooth, and my wild music wild. Kancheli is like lemons-and-flour to me.
And the String Quartet I found massively disappointing.
I crossed paths with Kancheli again not long ago when I was exploring settings of Paul Celan, so I listened to his work Exil. You can see my Amazon review here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000025M0P?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B000025M0P&linkCode=xm2&tag=3636363-20). I was really baffled by this piece. Rarely have I heard songs that so fail to engage with the poetry they set. It's certainly the odd one out among the wide array of Celan settings that we have at our disposal.
Quote from: CRCulver on September 02, 2013, 10:21:46 AM
I crossed paths with Kancheli again not long ago when I was exploring settings of Paul Celan, so I listened to his work Exil. You can see my Amazon review here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000025M0P?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creativeASIN=B000025M0P&linkCode=xm2&tag=3636363-20). I was really baffled by this piece. Rarely have I heard songs that so fail to engage with the poetry they set. It's certainly the odd one out among the wide array of Celan settings that we have at our disposal.
I too was disappointed by this - not a great setting. But can you name some of the other Celan settings you mention - apart from Birtwistle, of course, and I know a couple of settings by Reimann, Rihm's
Vier Gedichte aus Atemwende, his "Tenebrae" from
Deus passus, which I was very moved by at first listening (I have not yet returned to it) and Ruzicka's dramatic action
Celan - I suppose there are many, but I would like to hear from an expert which settings do engage with the poetry.
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 30, 2013, 06:43:45 AM
Can't say I'm fond of Kancheli's music. One of the most distracting things about his music is the extreme dynamic range of the music. One minute there's silence, then the next minute your eardrum is blown out. You always have to keep the volume knob in check with his music and this is a slight against his music not the conductors/orchestras who have performed his music. He's had some impressive advocates. Too bad I can't say the music is impressive as well. :-\
Rereading this old post, it's amazing how our perceptions can change about music we once didn't enjoy. My opinion of Kancheli is much better these days as I've started re-listening and also exploring music of his I hadn't heard previously. I'm mightily impressed by
Mourned by the Wind for viola and orchestra. I think this plays to Kancheli's strengths -- long, mournful laments interspersed with ferocious, violent outbursts. But it is the way these outbursts are managed that is a make or break point within a composition for me. I really can say I haven't been put off by hardly any of his music so far (though I'm still very much rediscovering his music). I would say he has more in common with a composer like Silvestrov than Part (who he is regularly grouped with). I haven't heard any of Kancheli's early music and some here have said they prefer it to his later style, but considering I like this later style of his, I'm not really worried about hearing any of it at this juncture. I'm just enjoying what's in my current collection for now.
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1VmLnftNNQ
Quote from: lescamil on October 03, 2015, 11:39:23 AM
I'll just leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1VmLnftNNQ
Kudos! I know the only recording of this work is Jansons so far. I hope ECM jumps on the bandwagon.
A few discs I'm quite impressed with as my rediscovery of Kancheli presses forward:
(http://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/lament1.jpg)
This particular recording contains only one work: Lament, which is a bummer from a TT standpoint, but the music is outstanding. This work was written in memory of Luigi Nono and the instrumentation is solo violin, soprano, and orchestra. It's in one movement. There are several loud outbursts (typical of Kancheli's style) but there are moments of great beauty and, while the music is slow moving, it never feels like it's a 45 minute work. This is one of those works I just get lost in and don't really think about time at all.
(http://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/trauerfarbenes-land1.jpg)
Both works ...a la Duduki and Trauerfarbenes Land are both ear-opening works and, like Lament and Mourned by the Wind, have made an impact on me as a listener. Again, both works contain the typical trademarks of Kancheli's style, but like Lament both works seem to be fixated on some kind of suffering or loss of something. Quite moving and really anyone into Silvestrov or Vasks will find a lot to enjoy in these two works.
Both CDs are also in my collection. ..a la Duduki and Trauerfarbenes Land I also like a lot. I believe that Lament is still sealed. I have to correct this soon.
Quote from: Wieland on October 04, 2015, 07:30:08 AM
Both CDs are also in my collection. ..a la Duduki and Trauerfarbenes Land I also like a lot. I believe that Lament is still sealed. I have to correct this soon.
Good to hear, Wieland. Yeah, give
Lament a listen. It's a marvelous work.
I bought this very cheap Telarc sampler and rather enjoyed the eloquent Andante maestoso from 'Mourned by the Wind'. I had some of the symphonies on Olympia decades ago but enjoyed this more:
[asin]B000003D6I[/asin]
Corigliano's impressive 'Elegy for Orchestra' was also new to me.
RIP Giya Kancheli (1935-2019)
This year has been rough! A huge loss to contemporary music, and that too right after Rouse.
https://www.youtube.com/v/L9TjZV7DEkY
Quote from: schnittkease on October 03, 2019, 10:59:32 PM
RIP Giya Kancheli (1935-2019)
This year has been rough! A huge loss to contemporary music, and that too right after Rouse.
https://www.youtube.com/v/L9TjZV7DEkY
Sad news indeed.
Wow...I didn't know Kancheli had passed away. There's something going on with this particular group of composers: first Schnittke then Górecki, and now Kancheli. A real shame. RIP, Maestro Kancheli.
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 14, 2019, 08:09:38 PM
Wow...I didn't know Kancheli had passed away. There's something going on with this particular group of composers: first Schnittke then Górecki, and now Kancheli. A real shame. RIP, Maestro Kancheli.
Kancheli died at 84; Górecki at 76. Discounting Schnittke, who was plagued with poor health, I think the "something" that's going on is old age!
Quote from: schnittkease on October 16, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
Kancheli died at 84; Górecki at 76. Discounting Schnittke, who was plagued with poor health, I think the "something" that's going on is old age!
Well, old age certainly! ;)