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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Mark on May 25, 2007, 02:32:47 PM

Poll
Question: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Option 1: No. 1 'Winter Daydreams' votes: 4
Option 2: No. 2 'Little Russian' votes: 1
Option 3: No. 3 'Polish' votes: 0
Option 4: No. 4 votes: 6
Option 5: No. 5 votes: 12
Option 6: No. 6 'Pathetique' votes: 22
Option 7: 'Manfred' Symphony votes: 4
Title: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Mark on May 25, 2007, 02:32:47 PM
For a long time, I've told myself that either Tchaikovsky's No. 4 or his No. 6 'Pathetique' was my favourite. Then I listened again (and a lot) to his No. 5. It charms me in ways not so obvious as the other two, so I'm now convinced it's my favourite.

What would you say was your favourite? And if you feel like it, why?
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Bogey on May 25, 2007, 02:44:30 PM
For myself Mark, it's his Manfred Symphony, Op. 58.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Bogey on May 25, 2007, 02:49:37 PM
After the Manfred, I would go with No. 6.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: not edward on May 25, 2007, 02:53:46 PM
I'll be a Manfred voter, though 4 and 6 are also great contenders.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Bogey on May 25, 2007, 02:55:16 PM
Quote from: edward on May 25, 2007, 02:53:46 PM
I'll be a Manfred.....

Which recording of this tops your list Edward?
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: not edward on May 25, 2007, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: Bogey on May 25, 2007, 02:55:16 PM
Which recording of this tops your list Edward?
You know, I don't really know.

I've had (and enjoyed) both Jansons and Svetlanov, but there are so many I've not heard....
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Israfel the Black on May 25, 2007, 02:57:17 PM
1. Sixth Symphony
2. Fourth Symphony
3. First Symphony
4. Manfred Symphony
5. Fifth Symphony
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: hornteacher on May 25, 2007, 02:58:15 PM
Love #4 the most.  The brassy opening, the pizz third movement, the finale at breakneck speed.  Great stuff.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Black Knight on May 25, 2007, 02:58:46 PM
My favourite is the 5th symphony, even though I was really tempted to pick the second symphony on the poll, just because it is SO underrated.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Bonehelm on May 25, 2007, 02:58:57 PM
The 6th, bar none. It's so saddening I almost feel like Tchaikovsky has personally pulled my heart out from my  rib cage (is the heart even in the ribcage?).
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Bogey on May 25, 2007, 02:59:54 PM
Quote from: edward on May 25, 2007, 02:55:59 PM
You know, I don't really know.

I've had (and enjoyed) both Jansons and Svetlanov, but there are so many I've not heard....

There is a Michael Tilson Thomas with the LSO out there that I would love to hear, but it is packaged on a $45 dollar set. :-\
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Mark on May 25, 2007, 03:04:51 PM
The BPO/Karajan set is the only one I own, although I have a few scattered recordings of some of the symphonies on other discs. I didn't respond to the Karajan 'sound' at first, but I've really warmed to it. If you like the Fourth Symphony, you'll probably like the way he drives it.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Brian on May 25, 2007, 03:06:46 PM
The Second. And the Fourth. And the Fifth. And the Sixth.



Oops!  ;D 

I can't decide between the final three ... aachggh!!
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: not edward on May 25, 2007, 03:10:23 PM
I predict that the Third will get fewest votes. ;)
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Mark G. Simon on May 25, 2007, 03:21:28 PM
I must confess I'm a Manfred man (doo wah diddy diddy)

I think the 6th symphony is his greatest, but I still have a soft spot for op. 58.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Lilas Pastia on May 25, 2007, 04:23:52 PM
My favourite is # 1 ;D, but I readily acknowledge I consider 6 and Manfred his greatest works in the genre :D.
I like 4 and 2 :), tolerate 5 and can live without 3 :P.

His Orchestral Suites contain excellent music.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: DetUudslukkelige on May 25, 2007, 08:46:27 PM
Tchaikovsky's 4th will always have its special place with me, because it was after hearing a preformance of this work that I started seriously collecting classical music. Were it not for this fact, it might be 1, 5, 6 or Manfred, but as it is, the 4th holds a place in my heart that none of the others can touch.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: val on May 26, 2007, 12:43:43 AM
The 4th. And then the 6th.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Que on May 26, 2007, 01:00:15 AM
The Manfred symphony, without hesitation.
And I'm glad that it's mentioned so often here - I always have the feeling it enjoys less proliferation than the "numbered" symphonies.

Q
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Harry on May 26, 2007, 01:11:42 AM
I love the first Symphony, and then in this order, 2,3,4,5,6.
Then comes Manfred No.7! ;D
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: rubio on May 26, 2007, 01:39:48 AM
I really love the 5th symphony, my favourite, when performed properly (especially the beautiful slow parts) and the fourth Symphony I also find excellent. The first movement of the sixth is really something to treasure, but I almost always get bored in the easily repetitive march in the 3rd movement "Allegro molto vivace" (a clear exception is Mravinsky and there may be others). The 1st and 2nd symphonies are very charming pieces, while I haven't listened to the 3rd and Manfred enough yet.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: sound67 on May 26, 2007, 01:53:25 AM
No.6. The least crappy.

Thomas
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: BachQ on May 26, 2007, 11:28:25 AM
........ really not sure ......... lemme think ..........


(http://www.sulis.net/five.jpg)
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: greg on May 26, 2007, 11:49:51 AM
man...... hard to decide. It's been forever since i last listened to any of his symphonies, but I really like the last 3- EQUALLY. So I chose 6, i don't know why. Plus, the first 3 i've only heard once a long time ago, and i haven't heard the Manfred symphony, so i don't even know if i'm qualified to vote.  :-\
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 26, 2007, 01:34:46 PM
Winter Dreams

Sarge
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:22:28 PM
I haven't explored Tchaikovsky's symphonies.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Harry on May 26, 2007, 02:27:24 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:22:28 PM
I haven't explored Tchaikovsky's symphonies.

Than it is high time you did my friend! :)
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Harry on May 26, 2007, 02:27:57 PM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 26, 2007, 01:34:46 PM
Winter Dreams

Sarge

That rather a fine choice Sarge! :)
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:32:21 PM
Quote from: Harry on May 26, 2007, 02:27:24 PM
Than it is high time you did my friend! :)

Why is that my friend? Are those symphonies really worth it?
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Mark on May 26, 2007, 02:33:52 PM
Quote from: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:32:21 PM
Why is that my friend? Are those symphonies really worth it?

Hearing Nos. 4-6 and the 'Manfred' are essential as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: 71 dB on May 26, 2007, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 02:33:52 PM
Hearing Nos. 4-6 and the 'Manfred' are essential as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I have heard #6 many times on radio. Doesn't exactly encourage to explore the rest.  ::)

Rococo Variations is my favorite work by him.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: mahlertitan on May 26, 2007, 02:57:40 PM
either fifth or the sixth, the rest are not worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Brian on May 26, 2007, 03:43:54 PM
Quote from: sound67 on May 26, 2007, 01:53:25 AM
No.6. The least crappy.

Thomas

Quote from: MahlerTitan on May 26, 2007, 02:57:40 PM
either fifth or the sixth, the rest are not worth mentioning.

*frowns, scratches head, and goes off to listen to Manfred for the first time*
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: George on May 26, 2007, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 02:33:52 PM
Hearing Nos. 4-6 and the 'Manfred' are essential as far as I'm concerned.

I need recommendations for Manfred.

Muti?
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Mark on May 26, 2007, 04:30:26 PM
I'm not your man(fred) for this, George. ;D I'll let the experts answer ...
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: George on May 26, 2007, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 04:30:26 PM
I'm not your man(fred) for this, George. ;D I'll let the experts answer ...


;)
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: DavidW on May 26, 2007, 04:41:37 PM
I like the Manfred alot, but this has to be the first time I've seen such interest in the symphony!  Simply amazing. :)
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Mark on May 26, 2007, 04:44:28 PM
It also surprises me, David, that more voters like his Fifth than his Fourth. I'd expected the reverse.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: DavidW on May 26, 2007, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: Mark on May 26, 2007, 04:44:28 PM
It also surprises me, David, that more voters like his Fifth than his Fourth. I'd expected the reverse.

Yeah I think in bigger circles you find 4 > 6 > 5 and Manfred not even considered.  Of course also people don't generally discuss say Penderecki as much as he is discussed here, we have an interesting group of listeners here, beyond the average bear.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: samtrb on May 26, 2007, 05:02:12 PM
Quote from: rubio on May 26, 2007, 01:39:48 AM
I really love the 5th symphony, my favourite, when performed properly

This is exactly what i wanted to say. the fifth is a test of every conductor, it's either a pass or a fail ! the brass section can either sound vulgar or elegent, and the dialog with the strings should be balanced. Gergiev gets an A  ;D
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
Manfred recommendations: they come in many coulours and flavours:

- Abravanel: brings the music closer to the Suites and the first 3 symphonies; underplays the melodrama; brings out winds to very nice effect. Slightly undernourished strings; a bit distantly recorded, but boosting the volume brings a very satisfying, natural and panoramic sound.

- Maazel: take all of the above and reverse the comments. If you like your Tchaikovsky in a neurotic, hand-wringing mood, this is the ticket. Sumptuously played and recorded.

- Markevitch: same qualities as in his well-known accounts of the numbered symphonies. Probably a first recommendation despite the 40+ year old recording date. Here's a Classicstoday review (by Dan Davis, not Hurwitz) that really sums it up very nicely: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5277

- Muti: a very safe version, in the best sense: superbly played, very well recorded. I find it a bit overcontrolled, but if you enjoy Muti's Tchaikovsky, he certainly makes this Manfred proud. I'd say this is the most 'symphonic' Manfred around.

- Svetlanov: recorded it twice. I didn't hear them, but apparently the 1992 is exhilarating (French critics are lost in admiration for this version). He omits the organ choral at the end though ???.

- Toscanini: 3 extant recordings. The NBC from 1953 is widely available. AT maked a big cut in the finale :-\. But you'll be shaken all the same: it's hugely dramatic and played to the hilt by the orchestra.

There are other versions by Chailly, Masur, Pletnev,  Janssons, Rozhdestvenski, etc. From reviews I've read, the Rozh accounts are the most exciting around, bar none. But they're hard to find and in raw sound. I've heard the Pletnev and Janssons and they're not in the running despite superb playing and sound.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Que on May 27, 2007, 06:37:23 AM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
- Markevitch: same qualities as in his well-known accounts of the numbered symphonies. Probably a first recommendation despite the 40+ year old recording date. Here's a Classicstoday review (by Dan Davis, not Hurwitz) that really sums it up very nicely: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5277

Wholeheartedly seconded. Sounds very good for its age, I think.
I haven't heard Svetlanov either - might be an interesting alternative take.

Q
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Bogey on May 27, 2007, 06:37:39 AM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
Manfred recommendations: they come in many coulours and flavours:

- Maazel: take all of the above and reverse the comments. If you like your Tchaikovsky in a neurotic, hand-wringing mood, this is the ticket. Sumptuously played and recorded.


Good to hear this.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: George on May 27, 2007, 06:39:47 AM
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:22:03 AM
Manfred recommendations: they come in many coulours and flavours:

- Abravanel: brings the music closer to the Suites and the first 3 symphonies; underplays the melodrama; brings out winds to very nice effect. Slightly undernourished strings; a bit distantly recorded, but boosting the volume brings a very satisfying, natural and panoramic sound.

- Maazel: take all of the above and reverse the comments. If you like your Tchaikovsky in a neurotic, hand-wringing mood, this is the ticket. Sumptuously played and recorded.

- Markevitch: same qualities as in his well-known accounts of the numbered symphonies. Probably a first recommendation despite the 40+ year old recording date. Here's a Classicstoday review (by Dan Davis, not Hurwitz) that really sums it up very nicely: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5277

- Muti: a very safe version, in the best sense: superbly played, very well recorded. I find it a bit overcontrolled, but if you enjoy Muti's Tchaikovsky, he certainly makes this Manfred proud. I'd say this is the most 'symphonic' Manfred around.

- Svetlanov: recorded it twice. I didn't hear them, but apparently the 1992 is exhilarating (French critics are lost in admiration for this version). He omits the organ choral at the end though ???.

- Toscanini: 3 extant recordings. The NBC from 1953 is widely available. AT maked a big cut in the finale :-\. But you'll be shaken all the same: it's hugely dramatic and played to the hilt by the orchestra.

There are other versions by Chailly, Masur, Pletnev,  Janssons, Rozhdestvenski, etc. From reviews I've read, the Rozh accounts are the most exciting around, bar none. But they're hard to find and in raw sound. I've heard the Pletnev and Janssons and they're not in the running despite superb playing and sound.

Thanks a lot for that!  :)

How's the Pletnev?
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Lilas Pastia on May 27, 2007, 06:53:17 AM
I didn't think much of it. It is rather disjointed. There are impressive bits, but it never coheres into a satisfying whole. If you google Manfred Pletnev and check the reviews on the Amazon sites you'll find a lot of reviews, and they're all over the place. Count me among the unimpressed. Same with Janssons: some find him terrific, others boring. I hear a taut but timid reading. Some exhilaration, very little emotion, it's rather constipated.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: lukeottevanger on May 27, 2007, 08:04:31 AM
The Fifth for me, though I find it hard to say why (apart from the fact that it was the first Tchaikovsky symphony I heard as a boy). It might be something to do with the fact that the second movement is so strong, and that I relish the relative poise, clear-headed thinking and classical balance of the first movement; like much of the music in the later symphonies it is obviously rooted in ballet and perhaps uncomfortably so, but it wears this more lightly than its fellows....I find it hard to put into words, as you can see. However, I'm sure the Sixth is a finer piece, and my own personal definition of 'great melody' always goes straight to the main subject of the slow movement of the Fourth - a tune so strong it needs no rhythmic differentiation to sear itself on the mind.
Title: Re: Your favourite Tchaikovsky symphony?
Post by: Danny on May 27, 2007, 06:57:59 PM
I also say the Fifth; I think it has the best elements of Pyotr (deep emotion, beautiful melodies with excellent shades of feeling) that is mature and concise.  His earlier works all hit or miss the mark for me, generally, but the Fifth has never failed to satisfy.  Perhaps the Sixth is his most moving and intense work (for all the reasons involved), but I say Tchaikovsky reached a balanced perfection with the Fifth.