This week the New York Philharmonic is doing a concert version of Alexander von Zemlinsky's one-act opera, A Florentine Tragedy (1915-16), with James Conlon conducting and an excellent cast, including Anthony Dean Griffey (who will sing the title role in Peter Grimes at the Met next spring). The libretto is based on Max Meyerfeld's translation of a play by Oscar Wilde. I have the Chailly recording, which I like but haven't listened to enough to really get to know the piece.
Other fans of this composer? I know he has been discussed briefly elsewhere, but didn't find a thread. Other favorites from his output are Die Seejungfrau (The Mermaid) (1902-03), a lush tone poem, and the Lyric Symphony (1922-23), a gorgeous work for soprano, baritone and orchestra with texts by Rabindranath Tagore.
Other fans, favorite works?
--Bruce
I have (and enjoy) his First and Second Symphonies on Naxos, Bruce, though I'm told better can be had - this, for example:
(http://claudet.club.fr/ExilVienne/Zemlinsky/Disques/Chandos10138.jpg)
The Lyric Symphony is a favorite, and I think I own all versions. However, my nod goes to the four string quartets.
Check out Zemlinsky's Six Songs for Orchestra with mysterious, Symbolist texts by Maeterlinck. What a tragedy this composer could not find an audience when he escaped to America: his highly chromatic, barely tonal style was pushed aside by his one-time brother-in-law Schoenberg and by Stravinsky.
I agree that Zemlinsky was a fine composer of music (mainly) in a late Romantic idiom. Riccardo Chailly, James Conlon and, now, Antony Beaumont have championed his music, although the version of his masterpiece the Lyric Symphony I possess is the 1982 account with Julia Varday, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Lorin Maazel conducting the Berlin Philharmonic. I certainly admire the lush orchestration of 'Die Seejungfrau' but I also think that the two Psalm settings that I know(No. 23 from 1910 and No.13 from 1935) are powerful works-their relatively short duration must make them difficult to programme. Conlon's double CD on EMI is a useful introduction, containing as it does the late Sinfonietta.
The numbering of the early symphonies is sometimes difficult to figure out! We are told that Zemlinsky wrote three symphonies whilst in his twenties. The Naxos CD referred to above calls the Symphony in D minor(1892) No.1 and the Symphony in B flat major(1897) No.2.
However, it appears that this numbering is actually misleading since there is an earlier Symphony in E minor dating from 1891 which is sometimes also referred to as No.1(although only the third and fourth movements appear to be extant in the Library of Congress in Washington). I don't know whether these movements have ever been performed or whether the first two movements are lost.
No doubt Antony Beaumont's biography of Zemlinsky-which I haven't seen-answers those questions!
Quote from: bhodges on October 16, 2007, 02:15:43 PM
Other fans, favorite works?
--Bruce
Zemlinsky's dates (1871-1942) correspond exactly to my favorite period of classical music (late Romantic through the early Modern) and he has long been one of my favorite composers. Besides the works already mentioned, I have a special fondness for this opera:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/ngmg/ZemBirth.jpg)
Apparently Cheryl Studer was not quite yet a household name (check out the spelling) ;D I have
Der Zwerg on order at JPC. That's the original version of this opera. An interesting biographical detail: apparently Zemlinsky identified with the dwarf that's so cruelly used and mocked by the Infanta (in real life, Alma Mahler?).
Sarge
The Los Angeles Opera is doing Der Zwerg in the spring, along with Viktor Ullmann's The Broken Jug, both with James Conlon conducting. Could be worth a little long weekend trip.
http://www.losangelesopera.com/productions/0708/recovered/index.htm
(PS, Sarge, love the signature!)
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on October 18, 2007, 06:07:12 AM
(PS, Sarge, love the signature!)
--Bruce
I hope it helps carry them through the Series. The last time they won was a few months before I was born. It's been a long 58 years :(
Sarge
I found this a few months ago, but still haven't listened for whatever reason.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a4/cf/3874224b9da0751365d7c010.L.jpg)
This thread has moved it to the top of my "to hear" pile. :)
Quote from: Corey on October 18, 2007, 07:01:57 AM
This thread has moved it to the top of my "to hear" pile. :)
Do report back: I think you are in for a sonic treat.
--Bruce
Zemlinsky is a true unsung master. Which is unfortunate. Perhaps his ability to mimic his peers' music works (worked) against him. It's not that he's a plagiarist of course but influences are audible. From Mahler to Debussy to Stravinsky and beyond. But who else could corral all these worthwhile influences and pop out such dignified results?
As far as recordings I can't say as I've heard one yet I didn't like. Conlon, Chailly, Jordan...all can be counted on to deliver quality work.
His operas are where the bulk of his output lies. And for good reason. He had a natural flair for the stage and his musical/dramatical efforts are never less than outright successes. Likewise his songs, whether in orchestral or chamber garb.
He wrote little in the way of chamber music but his string quartets are thrilling.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/22/57/fb9f92c008a01e4dbd23c010.L.jpg)
I am quite fond of his Op 3: Trio in d for Clarinet, Cello & Piano. I also have the version by the Borodin Trio for Violin, Cello & Piano. It is a lovely piece of work. Thanks for the mention of the string quartets. I will surely have these before long. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Mendelssohn Symphonies - Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra / Masur - FMB Symphony #1 in c Op 11 1st mvmt - Allegro molto
This is quite a nice disc of the second quartet, Gurn. Really finds the heart of Zemlinsky:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/88/587388.jpg)
Quote from: donwyn on October 18, 2007, 06:26:03 PM
This is quite a nice disc of the second quartet, Gurn. Really finds the heart of Zemlinsky:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/88/587388.jpg)
Thanks for the rec, donwyn. I would hope to find a set of the 4 of them (if such exists), but this will certainly do for a start. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Leonhardt (FP) / Kuijken (V) - Mozart K 481 Sonata in Eb for V & P 3rd mvmt - Thema: Allegretto & 5 variations
There is (was?) a DG set done by the Lasalle (I think, havn't access to my collection but I have it and have played the 2nd quartet a couple of times this year along with its disc coupling). The 2nd is major material.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 18, 2007, 05:56:07 AM
An interesting biographical detail: apparently Zemlinsky identified with the dwarf that's so cruelly used and mocked by the Infanta (in real life, Alma Mahler?).
Sarge
In fact, Zemlinsky was extremely vertically challenged.
Quote from: erato on October 18, 2007, 11:12:00 PM
There is (was?) a DG set done by the Lasalle (I think, havn't access to my collection but I have it and have played the 2nd quartet a couple of times this year along with its disc coupling). The 2nd is major material.
LaSalle (the set I have too) is OOP and used copies are expensive. This is available, though, and has gotten good reviews:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w300/front/0/4946427.jpg)
Sarge
Well, A Florentine Tragedy was just great. I posted a few comments on it here (http://monotonousforest.typepad.com/monotonous_forest/2007/10/zemlinsky-revel.html). And a friend posted a comment, saying that it had been staged in Santa Fe in 1984. Here (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9900E4DA1638F931A3575BC0A962948260&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/O/Opera) is the New York Times review.
--Bruce
Ellen Taaffe Zwilich might take offense at your subject title. :D
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 22, 2007, 11:44:13 AM
Ellen Taaffe Zwilich might take offense at your subject title. :D
Oops! :-[
--Bruce
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 22, 2007, 11:44:13 AM
Ellen Taaffe Zwilich might take offense at your subject title. :D
Samuel Zyman! (I cheated and consulted the Wikipedia list...)
Quote from: Corey on October 18, 2007, 07:01:57 AM
I found this a few months ago, but still haven't listened for whatever reason.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a4/cf/3874224b9da0751365d7c010.L.jpg)
This thread has moved it to the top of my "to hear" pile. :)
I listened to this (the Psalm) just now. It is very intense, and though I am not a fan of vocal music, it grew on me immediately.
Quote from: orbital on October 22, 2007, 02:16:46 PM
I listened to this (the Psalm) just now. It is very intense, and though I am not a fan of vocal music, it grew on me immediately.
I've given the disc a few listens since then, really enjoyable music. I was expecting the symphony to sound extremely Brahmsian given the time it was written and his education, but it is actually quite original.
Some say Zemlinsky is in some ways like Mahler; and I love Gustav to death. Shall I give Alexander a try because of this?
Quote from: Bonehelm on October 22, 2007, 04:37:08 PM
Some say Zemlinsky is in some ways like Mahler; and I love Gustav to death. Shall I give Alexander a try because of this?
Absolutely. But Zemlinsky is still quite different. I find him actually closer to Richard Strauss than Mahler, but yes, it's similar late-Romantic music.
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on October 22, 2007, 04:40:51 PM
Absolutely. But Zemlinsky is still quite different. I find him actually closer to Richard Strauss than Mahler, but yes, it's similar late-Romantic music.
--Bruce
Thanks Bhodges. :)
Thread revival! ;D
I had my first introduction to Zemlinsky recently, and I'm pretty wowed. I heard the Lyric Symphony live with Houston recently, and it is a breathtaking piece, the opening two minutes and closing are incredible. Definitely this is challenging music, extremely sophisticated, dense writing, that casually wanders in and out of tonality, and is also extremely lush and indulgent, fantastical in nature. It's a long piece, but somehow compelling, when it ended I felt as if woken up from a trance, it was like being in a musical daydream.
It was recorded for a release on Naxos soon (coupled with Berg's Lyric Suite), but in the meantime, I was curious about some outstanding recordings of this work. One thing I liked about the performance (with Hans Graf) was that it was rather dark and deep. I have so far only Chailly's, which is fiery and quite good, but I'm interested in other options available.
I know I need to hear The Mermaid, I have also heard the Six Songs before (coupled on some Chailly Mahler) and thought they were just beautiful. Would love to get to know Zemlinsky's work more!
Hmm... I've just noticed this thread; and after reading through it, I do wonder if Zemlinsky isn't worth my immediate attention!
Perhaps I'll go on the prowl for some. ;)
Quote from: Greta on November 28, 2007, 08:38:37 PM
Thread revival! ;D
No better thread to revive!
QuoteWould love to get to know Zemlinsky's work more!
Don't know if this comes as a let down but for any aspiring Zemlinsky fan it's necessary to be receptive to opera. That's because the bulk of his output is for the stage. Apart from the two early symphonies,
The Mermaid, The Lyric Symphony, the four string quartets, and other miscellaneous orchestra/chamber pieces that might fill up one more disc, what there is of Zemlinsky is virtually all operatic/vocal, including high quality symphonic transcriptions of his lieder.
But if you're receptive to opera/vocal you're in for an enormous treat! Zemlinsky's operas have a certain self-assurance to them musically which guarantees they'll have a "presence". There's nothing flimsy or cobbled about them which might generate indifference. They're the real deal. I guess you could say: they have flair, which is high praise for opera!
They're finally hitting their stride on disc though the opera houses seem to perform them only intermittently. Though as we all know that's no reflection on
any work's true value. If the masses are slow to catch up that's their problem! ;D
Anyway, I'd recommend any recording by Conlon, not only in the operas but the symphonic poems (Lyric Symphony/Mermaid) as well. Try
Der Zwerg and
Der Traumgörge for a good introduction to his operas. Chailly's Zemlinsky I've yet to hear but given his prowess in 20th century music he's bound to make impeccable work of this music.
Also there's Armin Jordan's recording of the opera,
A Florentine Tragedy on Naïve. Very nicely done:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TPG69RZCL._SS500_.jpg)
Hanssler recently released Zemlinsky's long lost Cello Sonata in A minor. It's on a disc with one of the Brahms cello sonatas and a cello sonata by Fuchs.
Quote from: Lethe on October 22, 2007, 11:52:19 AM
Samuel Zyman! (I cheated and consulted the Wikipedia list...)
Magnar Åm (as the Norwegian alphabet concludes with X, Y, Z, Æ, Ø, Å). Now beat that!
It is a wonder that The Mermaid has not become a warhorse! Just part of Zemlinsky's bad luck, especially in the post-WWI era.
Again I will recommend the Six Songs for Orchestra with Maeterlinck poems for anybody wondering if Zemlinsky is worth their time.
Be careful about the recordings of the First and Second Symphonies: I had one from the 90's (I think on Marco Polo) with the Slovak Philharmonic performing the Bb Symphony, and the entire last movement was missing, making me think for a while that the work was meant to be a 3-movement work, when it surely did not feel like a 3-movement symphony (a la Rachmaninov's 3rd). A little research showed me that company had gone awry on this work.
The CD's with James Conlon conducting are highly recommended!
Quote from: Cato on November 30, 2007, 09:41:54 AM
Again I will recommend the Six Songs for Orchestra with Maeterlinck poems for anybody wondering if Zemlinsky is worth their time.
I keep forgetting about these...thanks for mentioning! I have the recording with Jard van Nes, the coupling on the original release of Chailly's Mahler 6. (Don't think it's included in the Chailly box, unfortunately.) And just found one with Anne Sofie von Otter and John Eliot Gardiner that sounds great, too.
--Bruce
Perhaps time to revive this thread (even at the expense of repeating stuff). I've been listening to Zemlinsky's Psalm 23 (The Lord is my shepherd): its mix of pentatonic sweetness and 'sour' poignant harmonies at the opening I find strangely affecting - hauntingly beautiful stuff. I wish I could find Chailly's recording, an old fave of mine, but I've been making do with Rickenbacher's with the Berlin Radio Choir and Symphony Orchestra (Koch 3-1486-2 H1).
The only Zemlinsky I know is the Lyric Symphony, in two performances - Maazel (Varady/Fischer-Dieskau) and Eschenbach (Schäfer/Goerne). I prefer Maazel. Wonderful work.
That reminds me, I should get tickets for Eine florentinische Tragödie, which will be staged at our National Opera later this month (a double bill with Puccini's Gianni Schicchi). 8)
Quote from: Pierre on November 01, 2008, 10:19:05 AM
I wish I could find Chailly's recording, an old fave of mine
I have it if you would like me to upload it. :)
Quote from: Corey on November 01, 2008, 05:37:52 PM
I have it if you would like me to upload it. :)
Very kind of you to offer - I'm sure I've got the disc somewhere (probably in one of several boxes I still haven't unpacked/sorted). It would give me a lot of pleasure to hear it again, though, if you have a spare moment.
Quote from: Pierre on November 01, 2008, 06:42:26 PM
Very kind of you to offer - I'm sure I've got the disc somewhere (probably in one of several boxes I still haven't unpacked/sorted). It would give me a lot of pleasure to hear it again, though, if you have a spare moment.
Erm... seconded (and don't worry - Nørgård will be listened to in due course!)
Zemlinsky's Lyric Symphony is a great work, I especially love the opening. It is one of those works I've heard on the radio, after it had started, from time to time and not been able to place it, so that I've waited for the announcement at the end to satisfy my curiosity. Respighi is another composer like this. I remember listening to his Concerto Gregoriano on the radio and thinking that it must be by Finzi ::)
Quote from: vandermolen on November 02, 2008, 01:22:35 AM
Zemlinsky's Lyric Symphony is a great work, I especially love the opening. It is one of those works I've heard on the radio, after it had started, from time to time and not been able to place it, so that I've waited for the announcement at the end to satisfy my curiosity. Respighi is another composer like this. I remember listening to his Concerto Gregoriano on the radio and thinking that it must be by Finzi ::)
My favourite moments in the Lyric Symphony are the wistful baritone solos (which Fischer-Dieskau sings marvellously), 'Du bist die Abendwolke' and the one at the end with the refrain 'Du bist mein eigen' or words to that effect...
Quote from: Pierre on November 01, 2008, 06:42:26 PM
Very kind of you to offer - I'm sure I've got the disc somewhere (probably in one of several boxes I still haven't unpacked/sorted). It would give me a lot of pleasure to hear it again, though, if you have a spare moment.
Quote from: Jezetha on November 02, 2008, 01:58:35 AM
Erm... seconded (and don't worry - Nørgård will be listened to in due course!)
Here you go!
http://rapidshare.com/files/160152136/Zemlinsky.zip.html
Quote from: Corey on November 02, 2008, 08:00:43 PM
Here you go!
http://rapidshare.com/files/160152136/Zemlinsky.zip.html
Excellent! Thank you, Corey! (And by the way - to download this properly, cut off the html extension and hey presto!)
Quote from: bhodges on October 16, 2007, 02:15:43 PM
This week the New York Philharmonic is doing a concert version of Alexander von Zemlinsky's one-act opera, A Florentine Tragedy (1915-16), with James Conlon conducting and an excellent cast, including Anthony Dean Griffey (who will sing the title role in Peter Grimes at the Met next spring). The libretto is based on Max Meyerfeld's translation of a play by Oscar Wilde. I have the Chailly recording, which I like but haven't listened to enough to really get to know the piece.
Other fans of this composer? I know he has been discussed briefly elsewhere, but didn't find a thread. Other favorites from his output are Die Seejungfrau (The Mermaid) (1902-03), a lush tone poem, and the Lyric Symphony (1922-23), a gorgeous work for soprano, baritone and orchestra with texts by Rabindranath Tagore.
Other fans, favorite works?
--Bruce
Having just discovered 'The Mermaid' I am now a fan.
Quote from: vandermolen on December 09, 2008, 11:03:55 AM
Having just discovered 'The Mermaid' I am now a fan.
Oh great! It's marvelous, isn't it! Which recording? (Or did you get lucky and hear it live?)
--Bruce
I much prefer 'Die Seejungfrau' ;D ;D
It justs sounds so much more......? German! ;D :)
Quote from: Dundonnell on December 09, 2008, 11:08:29 AM
I much prefer 'Die Seejungfrau' ;D ;D
It justs sounds so much more......? German! ;D :)
;D
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on December 09, 2008, 11:06:11 AM
Oh great! It's marvelous, isn't it! Which recording? (Or did you get lucky and hear it live?)
--Bruce
Conlon on EMI. In a box set I bought for £7 in the HMV sale yesterday (3 CDs). A great discovery.
Die Seejungfrau has definitely been one of the discoveries of the year for me.
This is the only Zemlinsky I've heard; quite nice, and certainly a bargain for an introduction. I agree that he fits stylistically with Strauss, Mahler, & Brahms -- I may need to check out more from this composer...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WBSBN3DXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: jwinter on December 16, 2008, 12:33:25 PM
This is the only Zemlinsky I've heard; quite nice, and certainly a bargain for an introduction. I agree that he fits stylistically with Strauss, Mahler, & Brahms -- I may need to check out more from this composer...
That's a good plan, because those two symphonies are early Zemlinsky.
Quote from: donwyn on October 18, 2007, 06:26:03 PM
This is quite a nice disc of the second quartet, Gurn. Really finds the heart of Zemlinsky:
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/88/587388.jpg)
I almost bought this disc for the Debussy a week or two ago. Perhaps I should and it could serve as my introduction to Zemlinsky :)
Yesterday, on the national radio station in Canada (the French speaking one), was an electrifying live performance of I thought....the final movements of a Shostakovich string quartet. I was mistaken, it wasn't Shostakovich, but Zemlinsky's String Quartet No. 4
Anyway, I now want Zemlinsky's string quartets. ;D
Ahh, it was the Quatuor Molinari performing. :)
Quote from: ChamberNut on May 29, 2009, 05:47:10 PM
Anyway, I now want Zemlinsky's string quartets. ;D
If you want all four, I'd recommend the Artis Qt. Wien on Nimbus - 2 single CDs.
Quote from: Bulldog on May 29, 2009, 06:18:18 PM
If you want all four, I'd recommend the Artis Qt. Wien on Nimbus - 2 single CDs.
Thanks Don. :) I was checking out an Artis Qt. recording, but looked like it had only three of them.
I have both Artis/Nimbus. All 4 are there, plus a quartet by Joanna Muller-something (in Eb)?
No.2 is thee SQ after Schoenberg 1-2, and also related to them by all their personal drama (watch out f#minor!). This is a dense 40min. SQ, packed and stacked.
No.3, from the 20s, seems quite experimental, include a Theme and Variations that Zemlinsky used to poke fun at Shoenberg's theories (the "theme" is the most "not there" collection of notes I've ever heard!). Just like in Mozart, I assume, Zemlinsky has totally incorporated musical put downs... and it is this part of Zemlinsky I'm not that fond of. These last two SQs can sometimes come across perhaps, to me, a bit obnoxious in their humor, like a bitter Jewish Shosty. Either way, No.3 is relatively short, condensed to the gills, and packs an interesting psychology.
No.4 was written after the death of Berg, and may be Zemlinsky's answer to Berg's Lyric Suite. Yes, it ends with a quadruple fugue.
I find I respect and listen to these SQs more than I "like" them. 3-4 are good antidotes for Schoenberg's 3-4, though!
Thread bump for new Lyric Symphony recording! :)
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/99/1074799.jpg)
I was at the concerts where this was recorded in Nov. 2007 so have been waiting for it to come out for a while. ;) Live I was very impressed by the performance, and on disc it proved to be as just good as I remembered. All-around this is an excellent new recording of this piece - everything about it is well-judged, balances, tempi, crescendi, and it is not without fire and dramatic sweep. The first movement is particularly exquisite, displaying a formidable and weighty brass section which shines through the piece. I liked Twyla Robinson very much here, but really loved Roman Trekel. He has a marvelous, mellifluous timbre in all of his range and just sings beautifully, in strong voice throughout.
Naxos did a great job I feel in realistically capturing the orchestra while (mostly) erasing Jones Hall's many quirks - the sound does retain a characteristic dryness though. The only problem they did have is with some of the balances which are a tad off when the singers are singing, such as in Robinson's quieter songs, it sounds as if all of a sudden the orchestra were further away from the singers. Odd, as live it was fine.
Mentioning the coupling here - the Berg Lyric Suite, it gets a nice and energetic performance, the strings achieving fine chamber-music like playing. It's fun to hear this together with the Zemlinsky due to their shared link. I wished some inner lines were held in sharper relief, but like the interpretation a lot.
All in all, two strong performances and a recommended CD, especially for the price. May write more later - am enjoying dragging out my other recordings of the Zemlinsky...
Thread bump for this fine new release too. 'The Mermaid' has one of the most hauntingly atmospheric openings of any work I know. I wish that the first two minutes would go on and on!
Nice cover picture too:
The last post on this thread was almost three years ago? ??? WTF? Anyway, I admired Zemlinsky early on (the Conlon recordings on EMI) and I've recently bought an orchestral recording with Thomas Dausgaard conducting the Danish National Symphony Orchestra on Chandos. I plan on revisiting the Colon recordings that I own in addition to this Dausgaard recording. He's such an underrated composer IMHO.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 18, 2012, 03:54:32 PM
The last post on this thread was almost three years ago? ??? WTF? Anyway, I admired Zemlinsky early on (the Conlon recordings on EMI) and I've recently bought an orchestral recording with Thomas Dausgaard conducting the Danish National Symphony Orchestra on Chandos. I plan on revisiting the Colon recordings that I own in addition to this Dausgaard recording. He's such an underrated composer IMHO.
Yea, that's one of my original Posts,... eeee :-\mmm :-X,... uh, thanks for ;D...
I still recommend the SQs. I didn't mention
No.1, which, haha, apparently I've, er, matured a bit since then and listened to the most Brahmsian earlier work, but is in the same league as the Clarinet Trio, finely wrought, and very genial here; I return to now more this and
No.2, the 'Schoenberg scandal' quartet, rather than to the more modernistic 3-4, which are still a good tonic against the Schoenberg 3-4.
One listen to Die Seejungfrau and Lyric Symphony was all I needed to convice me that Zemlinsky was a composer of honorable stature. Why he's so neglected is beyond me? ??? Exquisite music.
It's amusing that Alma Mahler referred to Zemlinsky as "a horrid little gnome...toothless, chinless, and reaked of the coffee-houses." What a nice lady she was. ::)
Don't make Daniel bring forth the hammer, John ; )
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2012, 07:51:12 PM
It's amusing that Alma Mahler referred to Zemlinsky as "a horrid little gnome...toothless, chinless, and reaked of the coffee-houses." What a nice lady she was. ::)
What he felt about her is revealed in the Opera "Der Zwerg".
Some people you either have to love or hate, no in-between.
Alma was of the more interesting type, whom you have to love and hate at the same time.
I find it hard to think of anything to like about her. Her biography reads like the epitome of the manipulative shrew. She apparently scarred Zemlinsky for life and Mahler would have probably been better off without her. Furthermore, regarding Mahler, let's not forget the Alma Problem. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alma_Problem)
Quote from: karlhenning on May 20, 2012, 09:46:30 AM
Don't make Daniel bring forth the hammer, John ; )
...runs...for...shelter...
Quote from: Wanderer on May 20, 2012, 05:04:48 PM
[Alma] apparently scarred Zemlinsky for life . . . .
FWIW (i.e., according to Wikipedia):Quote from: WikipediaIn 1900, Zemlinsky met and fell in love with Alma Schindler, one of his composition students. She reciprocated his feelings initially; however, Alma felt a great deal of pressure from close friends and family to end the relationship.
If this is a fair description of her situation, then unless she felt immovably strong ties to Zemlinsky, I don't know how reasonable it is to have expected her to resist "a great deal of pressure from close friends and family." And possibly it is not fair to execrate Alma as having scarred Zemlinsky for life.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 20, 2012, 06:44:39 PM
...runs...for...shelter...
:D
Thread duty: Must take a listen to some more Zemlinsky. I remember really loving what I have heard of his music so far!
Naxos is preparing a cycle of the complete string quartets. The first volume, containing Quartets 3 and 4 and "2 Satz," is streaming on NML now with a physical CD due in a few months.
Yowza! It's been nearly a year since anyone has posted anything in this thread on our sehr beliebter Komponist Alexander! I have and love the Conlon readings of the two symphonies. Do I need the Brabbins, do you think? Tempted to buy it just for the cover!
[asin] B00GMH2VVQ[/asin]
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on March 18, 2014, 06:36:12 PM
Yowza! It's been nearly a year since anyone has posted anything in this thread on our sehr beliebter Komponist Alexander! I have and love the Conlon readings of the two symphonies. Do I need the Brabbins, do you think? Tempted to buy it just for the cover!
[asin] B00GMH2VVQ[/asin]
Not sure. I find Brabbins to be an unreliable conductor in most cases. He released a recording of Hindemith orchestral works (
Mathis der Maler,
Konzertmusik) and got some mixed reviews. I don't think the German repertoire is his bag. He seems more attuned, naturally, to British composers. I say skip it unless you believe you
really need it. Conlon is excellent in Zemlinsky BTW and I've admired his recordings for many years now.
Thanks, Mirror, for your excellent counsel. Conlon does know his Z and he has never disappointed. I never tire of hearing Z flex his musical muscles in those two symphonies.
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on March 18, 2014, 07:35:49 PM
Thanks, Mirror, for your excellent counsel. Conlon does know his Z and he has never disappointed. I never tire of hearing Z flex his musical muscles in those two symphonies.
You're welcome, ZauberdrachenNr.7. BTW, do you have a first name I could call you? Your screen name isn't exactly easy on the fingers. ;D I'd say if you really enjoy those symphonies, then the Brabbins might be good. Like I mentioned, I really don't know just offering some things I've read about him and observed about his conducting. It's not like the market is flooded with recordings of Zemlinsky's symphonies however. ;)
Looks like this Brabbins disc got a favorable review in
The Guardian -
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/feb/02/zemlinsky-symphonies-bbcnow-brabbins-review
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 18, 2014, 08:08:33 PM
You're welcome, ZauberdrachenNr.7. BTW, do you have a first name I could call you?
I fear Zauberdrachen fulfills my long-felt need for a multisyllabic first name; Gregg's the real one. I think your first suggest is a good'un. There's other works I need more. The good news is that Z is of sufficient interest now to support multiple recordings of the same material! 8)
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on March 19, 2014, 03:39:53 AM
I fear Zauberdrachen fulfills my long-felt need for a multisyllabic first name; Gregg's the real one. I think your first suggest is a good'un. There's other works I need more. The good news is that Z is of sufficient interest now to support multiple recordings of the same material! 8)
Nice to meet you, Gregg. I know you mentioned you own Conlon's recordings of the symphonies, but do you own this 3-CD box set of his that came out on EMI?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MBzlCJ7TL.jpg)
Some great stuff in this box.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 19, 2014, 07:18:03 AM
Nice to meet you, Gregg. I know you mentioned you own Conlon's recordings of the symphonies, but do you own this 3-CD box set of his that came out on EMI?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MBzlCJ7TL.jpg)
Some great stuff in this box.
Sehr erfreut. I am going to have to check carefully, but I think I have all or most of what's in the box from "pre-box" purchases on EMI:
Traumgörge;
Seejungfrau;
Sämtliche Chorwerke;
Sämtliche Orchesterlieder;
Lyrische Symphonie;
Cymbeline Suite und Frühlingsbegräbnis. I also have Claus Peter Flor's reading of the
Lyric Symphony on RCA; the LaSalle Quartet (DG) for the 4 quartets; the Artis Quartet for #3 and 4 only (Nimbus); another reading of Sinfonietta by the Radio-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin under Klee on Koch and
Sarema (also on Koch). I was astounded to check in Ewen (
Composers Since 1900) and its
Supplement which I've found really helpful and there's not a mention of him, but then remembered it wasn't until his centenary that Z was rediscovered. Listened to
Eine florentinische Tragödie this afternoon and greatly enjoyed it but so distracted with odds and ends (mostly odd) must go back to it with greater attn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L8B0hgApuI Be sure to catch your Z's!
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on March 19, 2014, 11:02:21 AM
I am going to have to check carefully, but I think I have all or most of what's in the box from "pre-box" purchases on EMI:...
John, btw, don't you think EMI
rules when it comes to classical labels? My favorite if I had to choose one - might make an interesting thread actually.
I happened to come across this new release:
[asin]B00GMH2VVQ[/asin]
No reviews on Amazon at least. I found this positive, but very cursory, review from The Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/feb/02/zemlinsky-symphonies-bbcnow-brabbins-review (http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/feb/02/zemlinsky-symphonies-bbcnow-brabbins-review)
Quote from: Cato on March 19, 2014, 01:08:49 PM
I happened to come across this new release:
No reviews on Amazon at least. I found this positive, but very cursory, review from The Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/feb/02/zemlinsky-symphonies-bbcnow-brabbins-review (http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/feb/02/zemlinsky-symphonies-bbcnow-brabbins-review)
I wouldn't dignify these words by calling it a review.. Did you mean to post in the Grammar Grumble instead? 0:)
QuoteThese two early symphonies, played with the right degree of late-Romantic lushness and fluency by the BBC NOW under Martyn Brabbins, places him firmly in that fascinating stylistic crevice between Brahms and Mahler. Whether you see him as a footnote to the 19th century or a prelude to the 20th, the music has a variety and melodic warmth which is well worth exploring.
Quote from: North Star on March 19, 2014, 01:25:29 PM
I wouldn't dignify these words by calling it a review.. Did you mean to post in the Grammar Grumble instead? 0:)
Heh-heh! The dangers of placing too many words between the subject and the verb! 0:)
I was wondering if that really was the complete "review," or if a subscriber would be given the longer version.
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on March 19, 2014, 11:02:21 AM
Sehr erfreut. I am going to have to check carefully, but I think I have all or most of what's in the box from "pre-box" purchases on EMI: Traumgörge; Seejungfrau; Sämtliche Chorwerke; Sämtliche Orchesterlieder;Lyrische Symphonie; Cymbeline Suite und Frühlingsbegräbnis. I also have Claus Peter Flor's reading of the Lyric Symphony on RCA; the LaSalle Quartet (DG) for the 4 quartets; the Artis Quartet for #3 and 4 only (Nimbus); another reading of Sinfonietta by the Radio-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin under Klee on Koch and Sarema (also on Koch). I was astounded to check in Ewen (Composers Since 1900) and its Supplement which I've found really helpful and there's not a mention of him, but then remembered it wasn't until his centenary that Z was rediscovered. Listened to Eine florentinische Tragödie this afternoon and greatly enjoyed it but so distracted with odds and ends (mostly odd) must go back to it with greater attn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L8B0hgApuI Be sure to catch your Z's!
Ah, cool, so you don't really need the set. My favorite performance of
Lyric Symphony is with Eschenbach. Have you heard it?
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on March 19, 2014, 11:15:16 AM
John, btw, don't you think EMI rules when it comes to classical labels? My favorite if I had to choose one - might make an interesting thread actually.
I think they have a strong catalog, but there are other labels I certainly like more and this has more to do with specific composers than anything. Some favorite labels of mine: BIS, Chandos, Naxos, Decca, Supraphon, and Wergo.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 19, 2014, 05:02:39 PM
My favorite performance of Lyric Symphony is with Eschenbach. Have you heard it?
Nope, but on your recommend, will pursue - thanks!
Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on March 19, 2014, 06:43:33 PM
Nope, but on your recommend, will pursue - thanks!
I think you'll enjoy, Gregg. It's a deeply felt performance.
I have a Zyman disc on my shelf.
Quote from: Ken B on March 21, 2014, 07:47:53 PM
I have a Zyman disc on my shelf.
I wonder if Zyman knows Michel van der Aa.
Quote from: North Star on March 19, 2014, 01:25:29 PM
I wouldn't dignify these words by calling it a review.. Did you mean to post in the Grammar Grumble instead? 0:)
I can never understand why Guardian having their reviewers listen to the classical discs, cannot provide them with a few more lines to write something of interest. Or is it really a means to providing them a channel to receive free discs? Mostly they seem like 5 minutes of observation after one playthrough.
And I second the Eschenbach. A superb disc, and a clear favorite among my three recordings of the Lyric.
The Mermaid (Die Seejungfrau) is a most beautiful, poetic work. It has one of the most magical openings I know representing the murky depths of the sea. Such a shame that it was poorly received at its premiere in 1903 and sunk without trace (no pun intended) for decades. Zemlinsky is an underrated composer. It is reminiscent at times of Mahler's 'Titan' Symphony and anticipated the scores of Waxman and Korngold by decades. It also has resonances of Rimsky Korsakov's fantasy scores. I know I've written about this fine work before so I'm not going ga-ga (yet) but thought it time to bump up the thread.
[asin]B002AT46AO[/asin]
By the way I like Brewski's title for this thread 'At the end of the alphabet...' Oddly sad and poetic - like Zemlinsky himself.
Quote from: vandermolen on March 25, 2017, 11:38:41 AM
The Mermaid (Die Seejungfrau) is a most beautiful, poetic work. It has one of the most magical openings I know representing the murky depths of the sea. Such a shame that it was poorly received at its premiere in 1903 and sunk without trace (no pun intended) for decades. Zemlinsky is an underrated composer. It is reminiscent at times of Mahler's 'Titan' Symphony and anticipated the scores of Waxman and Korngold by decades. It also has resonances of Rimsky Korsakov's fantasy scores. I know I've written about this fine work before so I'm not going ga-ga (yet) but thought it time to bump up the thread.
[asin]B002AT46AO[/asin]
By the way I like Brewski's title for this thread 'At the end of the alphabet...' Oddly sad and poetic - like Zemlinsky himself.
Thanks for the title praise, Jeffrey! And
Die Seejungfrau can't be mentioned often enough. I am mystified why it doesn't show up in the concert hall more often, since it shows off a large orchestra very well.
Have not heard this Judd recording, though I have good associations with him from other recordings (e.g., his version of
The Planets with the RPO).
--Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on March 25, 2017, 12:40:36 PM
Thanks for the title praise, Jeffrey! And Die Seejungfrau can't be mentioned often enough. I am mystified why it doesn't show up in the concert hall more often, since it shows off a large orchestra very well.
Have not heard this Judd recording, though I have good associations with him from other recordings (e.g., his version of The Planets with the RPO).
--Bruce
Amen! 0:)
I bought this recording...27 years ago :o ??? :o ???
[asin]B00000E399[/asin]
Riccardo Chailly and the RSO Berlin. It also offers a choral work:
Psalm XXIII.
A work that shows
Zemlinsky should be numbered among the best is his
Sechs Gesaenge on texts by
Maurice Maeterlinck. This work is the very definition of hauntingly enigmatic.
[asin]B006660TIK[/asin]
Coincidentally I've just ordered a second-hand version of the Decca recording posted by Leo above (I have the fine version by Conlon as well). Bruce is right about Judd and his NZSO too. I like their version of Copland's Third Symphony and the symphonies of the NZ composer Douglas Lilburn. I caught the end of a poetic and moving work on the radio a couple of days ago - by the end I guessed it was Die Seejungfrau which encouraged me to listen to it again. Zemlinsky was BBC Radio 3's Composer of the Week last week.
I need to get more Zemlinsky into my collection. Interestingly, Die Seejungfrau was premiered at the same concert as Schoenberg's Pelleas und Melisande, both works c. 40 minutes and scored for substantial forces.
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 26, 2017, 01:17:36 PM
I need to get more Zemlinsky into my collection. Interestingly, Die Seejungfrau was premiered at the same concert as Schoenberg's Pelleas und Melisande, both works c. 40 minutes and scored for substantial forces.
Yes and I think that it was, unfairly I think, overshadowed by the Schoenberg work. Bizarrely it was also performed alongside Vaughan Williams's Norfolk Rhapsody No.1 at a concert around the same time.
I've asked this question before in other settings without getting any (even negative) reply, so just for fun I think I'll toss it out here: does anybody know if there has EVER been any kind of a recorded performance (even an off-air, internet-available-downloadable recording) of Zemlinsky's early, apparently incomplete Symphony in E minor? It seems unlikely to me but I keep hoping...
Brian
Sorry, I know of nothing, and have been following Zemlinsky for 40 years or so!
There are references to the attempt having two movements extant, but otherwise...nothing.
...meanwhile back at the end of the alphabet and towards the end of his life Zemlinsky composed a wonderful work which I listened to for the first time today. This is his setting of Psalm XIII ('How long wilt thou forget me, O Lord?') composed in 1935 and first performed in 1971 decades after the composer's death. Poor Zemlinsky was, I believe, a great composer yet one who was tragically neglected in his lifetime and was unfortunate enough to find himself, a Jew, living in Nazi Germany, where his work was of course banned. Fortunately he managed to get out and died, largely forgotten in the USA. The CD which Leo (Cato) posted above is terrific as it has the wonderfully atmospheric tone poem 'The Mermaid' (Die Seejungfrau) coupled with the great setting of Psalm XIII. I find the Psalm to be very moving, especially in the context of Zemlinky's life and the powerfully defiant ending reminded me momentarily of the choral music of Vaughan Williams or Holst - a great discovery and certainly my favourite Zemlinsky CD.
Thanks for the interesting comment, vandermolen! :) Your praise of this Psalm XIII led me to purchase this composer's "Complete Choral Works" on EMI under James Conlon, in a twofer that also includes the orchestral songs (which have been in my collection since they were first issued). I've neglected Zemlinsky for quite a while, but today reviisited Die Seejunfrau and the Sinfonietta with pleasure (particularly the latter).
Regards,
Quote from: ritter on April 24, 2017, 05:30:34 AM
Thanks for the interesting comment, vandermolen! :) Your praise of this Psalm XIII led me to purchase this composer's "Complete Choral Works" on EMI under James Conlon, in a twofer that also includes the orchestral songs (which have been in my collection since they were first issued). I've neglected Zemlinsky for quite a while, but today reviisited Die Seejunfrau and the Sinfonietta with pleasure (particularly the latter).
Regards,
And thank you Ritter for your response. I hope that you enjoy Psalm XIII as much as I have. I have the Conlon box of orchestral works and must revisit it especially for the Sinfonietta which I hardly know.
Best wishes
Jeffrey
Quote from: Brewski on March 25, 2017, 12:40:36 PM
Thanks for the title praise, Jeffrey! And Die Seejungfrau can't be mentioned often enough. I am mystified why it doesn't show up in the concert hall more often, since it shows off a large orchestra very well.
I think I once read that already at the first performance the Seejungfrau was overshadowed by Schoenberg's "Pelleas & Melisande" and it apparently has not recovered since then.
I wonder if someone has listened to/compared several recordings of the string quartets. For years the LaSalle (DG) was the only game in town but by now there is also Artis (Nimbus), Schoenberg (Chandos) and Escher (Naxos).
Quote from: vandermolen on April 22, 2017, 02:00:55 PM
...meanwhile back at the end of the alphabet and towards the end of his life Zemlinsky composed a wonderful work which I listened to for the first time today. This is his setting of Psalm XIII
Quote from: ritter on April 24, 2017, 05:30:34 AM
Thanks for the interesting comment, vandermolen! :) Your praise of this Psalm XIII led me to purchase this composer's "Complete Choral Works" on EMI under James Conlon, in a twofer that also includes the orchestral songs (which have been in my collection since they were first issued). I've neglected Zemlinsky for quite a while, but today reviisited Die Seejunfrau and the Sinfonietta with pleasure (particularly the latter).
The
James Conlon Zemlinsky recordings are all classic performances! He has a special affinity, it would seem, for
Zemlinsky's style.
Just wanted to bring attention to Zemlinsky's wonderful Sinfonietta, which I discovered today. Written near the end of the composer's life in 1934, it exhibits a more acerbic (though hardly unapproachable) style than his earlier works. Stylistically, it reminded me in places of Weill's equally great Symphony no. 2, written in the same year. Zemlinsky did this work no favors by giving it such a diminutive title - it is in fact a substantial, often dark work which could easily be called a symphony. I highly recommend this excellent recording by James Judd and the NZSO, where it's coupled with the gorgeous (and very different) Der Seejungfrau:
[asin]B002AT46AO[/asin]
Quote from: kyjo on March 04, 2018, 09:37:21 PM
Just wanted to bring attention to Zemlinsky's wonderful Sinfonietta, which I discovered today. Written near the end of the composer's life in 1934, it exhibits a more acerbic (though hardly unapproachable) style than his earlier works. Stylistically, it reminded me in places of Weill's equally great Symphony no. 2, written in the same year. Zemlinsky did this work no favors by giving it such a diminutive title - it is in fact a substantial, often dark work which could easily be called a symphony. I highly recommend this excellent recording by James Judd and the NZSO, where it's coupled with the gorgeous (and very different) Der Seejungfrau:
[asin]B002AT46AO[/asin]
Right! I have this on the same Naxos CD but never listened to it as I'm always listening to 'The Mermaid'. So, thanks for alerting us to this work Kyle.
Zemlinsky is one of those composers I've tried to appreciate, I mean really try, but I always seem to come away from his music thinking I should've been listening to someone else instead. Die Seejungfrau is nice enough work, but not very evocative or compelling in any way. The Sinfonietta just doesn't sound too interesting in general. He kind of a represents the dying embers of German/Austrian Late-Romanticism and I'm afraid his predecessors did it better than he did. Just give me Mahler or someone of a completely different style like Schoenberg or Hindemith (if we're talking about Germanic composers).
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2018, 07:51:42 PM
Zemlinsky is one of those composers I've tried to appreciate, I mean really try, but I always seem to come away from his music thinking I should've been listening to someone else instead. Die Seejungfrau is nice enough work, but not very evocative or compelling in any way. The Sinfonietta just doesn't sound too interesting in general. He kind of a represents the dying embers or German/Austrian Late-Romanticism and I'm afraid his predecessors did it better than he did. Just give me Mahler or someone of a completely different style like Schoenberg or Hindemith (if we're talking about Germanic composers).
Strange, I really don't hear any significant elements of Mahler in the Sinfonietta, which the Naxos liner notes (http://naxos%20liner%20notes) claim fuses elements of Mahler with elements of Stravinsky and Hindemith. To me, it sounds closer to Prokofiev, especially Soviet-era Prokofiev, though the orchestration is noticeably different.
Quote from: Mahlerian on March 05, 2018, 08:37:03 PM
Strange, I really don't hear any significant elements of Mahler in the Sinfonietta, which the Naxos liner notes (http://naxos%20liner%20notes) claim fuses elements of Mahler with elements of Stravinsky and Hindemith. To me, it sounds closer to Prokofiev, especially Soviet-era Prokofiev, though the orchestration is noticeably different.
I didn't say the
Sinfonietta had any elements of Mahler in it. I was referring to Zemlinsky's style in general or from what I have heard (most of his orchestral music and very little of his lieder, operas, or chamber music). Regardless of all of this, I'm still rather unimpressed with what I've heard of his music.
I've had the Conlon CD with Seejungfrau and the Sinfonietta since shortly after they came out, and probably haven't listened to the Sinfonietta since then. But after the mentions here I fished it out, and found myself enjoying the Sinfonietta a great deal. The first movement was immediately interesting, being mostly constructed out of a pair of contrasting motifs, one ascending, the other descending. Just based on a first listen, it seemed to have an unusual structure, with the return of the opening material saved for a sort of coda. But the real highlight of the work was the second movement, where there were two very striking climaxes, one just before the midway point in the movement and one that comes soon after. Zemlinsky created something really unique there. The finale struck me as a well executed conclusion with somewhat sarcastic high spirits. Music of its age, but with something unique, I'd say, especially the striking middle movement.
[asin]B000002RVM[/asin]
I liked Conlon's performance, but I felt that the audio engineering didn't really capture the opulence of the orchestration. It was a bit congested and lacking in ambience. I will be looking for an alternate recording, I notice there are several choices in the catalog.
QuoteI liked Conlon's performance, but I felt that the audio engineering didn't really capture the opulence of the orchestration. It was a bit congested and lacking in ambience. I will be looking for an alternate recording, I notice there are several choices in the catalog.
The Conlon/Zemlinsky series discs were all blighted to some degree by their engineering. Somehow they gave the music an element of circumspection and caution that it doesn't have. I enjoyed the Anthony Beaumont/Czech PO recording of the Sinfonietta. That orchestra still retain a sound that for me seems wholly appropriate for this music. Beaumont's biography of Zemlinsky is well worth a read too.
I have the Conlon in a twofer; they were among the first available recordings, I think. I do not remember these works so well and the sound was kind of dull and distant. While I am not sufficiently familiar with enough of his works, I have the impression that, the Lyric symphony aside, Zemlinsky best is in his operas and string quartets, not the orchestral music.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 05, 2018, 10:39:09 PM
Zemlinsky, Sinfonietta, Conlon, Köln.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002RVM.01.L.jpg)
http://a-fwd.to/3rs76In (http://a-fwd.to/3rs76In)
A piece that made a big impression, particularly the middle movement. I think Conlon did fine work, but the audio isn't entirely satisfying to me. Looking for alternatives. More detailed impressions on the Zemlinsky thread.
Finding an alternative is full of potential pitfalls. There is an Ondine recording, but the fine print says it is an arrangement for chamber orchestra, there is a Chandos recording, and the fine print says it is a re-release of a Nimbus recording. (Can anything be worse?). So I am down to Dausgaard on another Chandos recording and the Naxos recording that has been mentioned above. Difficult decisions!
Mermaids I've met:
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/07/dip-your-ears-no-67.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/07/dip-your-ears-no-67.html)
If you are referring to
the Storgards recordings with the Helsinki Phil (http://a-fwd.to/3zHberb) of the Mermaid, that is
not arranged for chamber orchestra -- the
Sinfonietta on the same disc is. What's unique about the Mermaid here*, is that this is the new critical edition by Beaumont which restores some excised passages and corrects previous mistakes made in they copying of the score. It's a very fine, sumptuous performances; perhaps a touch genteel.
In the above-linked review I state that Dausgaard is my preferred choice, but this demands clarification (given in said review):
Dausgaard I (Chandos) (http://a-fwd.to/5bTdeD6), that is. He went on to re-record it
on Dacapo with a splendid coupling (http://a-fwd.to/6JAwXKq)... and live... but that didn't jump out at me as being outright better than the version before... just excellent, also. In any case OOP.
You mention that Beaumont is licensed from Nimbus. Are you sure? The same sources DID record Zemlinsky that was then brought out on Nimbus -- but not, I think, these. In any case, if so, I believe it'd be a case of these recordings being taken from the same source but not
made by Nimbus. I haven't got my copy (Chandos) around to see if that sheds any light on it. I think it's a v. good, brawny recording, if not necessarily or obviously topping either of Dausgaard's efforts.
I've also always liked Conlon, who introduced me to much of Zemlinksy by way of his records. They are held back by the sonics, but still hold a special place in my heart. This leaves Chailly/Berlin, the earliest (I think) of the bunch... and still perhaps the most exciting. (It's also available-ish as part of the "Entartete Musik" series (http://b0000042d7)
and on a Zemlinsky/Chailly Twofer.) I don't know Judd's recording (Naxos), nor Vaclav Neumann (?)'s (Wergo). I dismiss Cornelius Meister (CPO) out of hand. Ah, right, I also have Emmanuel Krivine (Alpha*), but that's not rising to the level of the others discussed above.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51yFIRxlqdL.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dQjuZIGHL._SX522_.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/5113yjBIKhL.jpg) |
| Dausgaard I, Chandos (http://a-fwd.to/5bTdeD6) | Storgards, Ondine (http://a-fwd.to/3zHberb) | Beaumont, Chandos (http://a-fwd.to/2EcRU1z) |
| (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517OZPfdEUL.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61urOMXm79L.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81NQQyJABnL._SX522_.jpg) |
| Dausgaard II, Dacapo (http://a-fwd.to/2Z8SRWA) | Chailly, Decca (http://a-fwd.to/4MfNlSz) | Conlon, EMI (http://a-fwd.to/3rs76In)
|
* See Carmina Burana's comment below: Storgards was the first to record that version; Krivine also did. Just listened to Storgards (and then Chailly) again... it's still annoyingly underwhelming. So perhaps Krivine really does shine, between the two of them.
QuoteQuote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 06, 2018, 01:55:09 AM
Mermaids I've met:
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/07/dip-your-ears-no-67.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/07/dip-your-ears-no-67.html)
If you are referring to the Storgards recordings with the Helsinki Phil (http://a-fwd.to/3zHberb) of the Mermaid, that is not arranged for chamber orchestra -- the Sinfonietta on the same piece is. What's unique about the Mermaid here, is that this is the new critical edition by Beaumont which restores some excised passages and corrects previous mistakes made in they copying of the score. It's a very fine, sumptuous performances; perhaps a touch genteel.
You mention that Beaumont is licensed from Nimbus. Are you sure? The same sources DID record Zemlinsky that was then brought out on Nimbus -- but not, I think, these. In any case, if so, I believe it'd be a case of these recordings being taken from the same source but not made by Nimbus. I haven't got my copy (Chandos) around to see if that sheds any light on it. I think it's a v. good, brawny recording, if not necessarily or obviously topping either of Dausgaard's efforts.
The Storgards is not unique in its use of the critical edition. It was the first recording to do so but Krivine uses it too. And to my ear more effectively than Storgards. But for what it is worth I'm not so certain of the value of that edition. It creates a version of the work that Zemlinsky never sanctioned and never heard - and it does not have the merit of being "complete first thoughts" since some passages of the original work are still missing and have had to be conjecturally in-filled. Curiously Beaumont in his biography makes the case for NOT needing a critical edition of the the Mermaid even though he mentions the stuck together and missing pages but then a few years later DID edit just such an edition.
The "Nimbus" recording was engineered in the Rudolfinum with a Czech team and Dominic Fyfe as producer. I assume in effect this was then licenced to Nimbus and/or later Chandos.
Concerning this CD:
[asin]B00000E399[/asin]
I obtained the Chailly a long time ago, possibly when it was first released. It was played on the local classical radio station, and so... ;) YES! I had to get that!
I thought it was, and remains, a fine recording: I will need to re-listen to the Conlon: I do not recall the sound being corseted, but...
I read in some booklet or guide that the "Mermaid" was unlucky since its premiere because this was together with Schönberg's "Pelleas & Melisande" and the latter was more popular with the audience right from the start.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 06, 2018, 01:55:09 AM
Mermaids I've met:
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/07/dip-your-ears-no-67.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/07/dip-your-ears-no-67.html)
If you are referring to the Storgards recordings with the Helsinki Phil (http://a-fwd.to/3zHberb) of the Mermaid, that is not arranged for chamber orchestra -- the Sinfonietta on the same disc is. What's unique about the Mermaid here*, is that this is the new critical edition by Beaumont which restores some excised passages and corrects previous mistakes made in they copying of the score. It's a very fine, sumptuous performances; perhaps a touch genteel.
In the above-linked review I state that Dausgaard is my preferred choice, but this demands clarification (given in said review): Dausgaard I (Chandos) (http://a-fwd.to/5bTdeD6), that is. He went on to re-record it on Dacapo with a splendid coupling (http://a-fwd.to/6JAwXKq)... and live... but that didn't jump out at me as being outright better than the version before... just excellent, also. In any case OOP.
You mention that Beaumont is licensed from Nimbus. Are you sure? The same sources DID record Zemlinsky that was then brought out on Nimbus -- but not, I think, these. In any case, if so, I believe it'd be a case of these recordings being taken from the same source but not made by Nimbus. I haven't got my copy (Chandos) around to see if that sheds any light on it. I think it's a v. good, brawny recording, if not necessarily or obviously topping either of Dausgaard's efforts.
I've also always liked Conlon, who introduced me to much of Zemlinksy by way of his records. They are held back by the sonics, but still hold a special place in my heart. This leaves Chailly/Berlin, the earliest (I think) of the bunch... and still perhaps the most exciting. (It's also available-ish as part of the "Entartete Musik" series (http://b0000042d7) and on a Zemlinsky/Chailly Twofer.) I don't know Judd's recording (Naxos), nor Vaclav Neumann (?)'s (Wergo). I dismiss Cornelius Meister (CPO) out of hand. Ah, right, I also have Emmanuel Krivine (Alpha*), but that's not rising to the level of the others discussed above.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51yFIRxlqdL.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dQjuZIGHL._SX522_.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/5113yjBIKhL.jpg) |
| Dausgaard I, Chandos (http://a-fwd.to/5bTdeD6) | Storgards, Ondine (http://a-fwd.to/3zHberb) | Beaumont, Chandos (http://a-fwd.to/2EcRU1z) |
| (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517OZPfdEUL.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61urOMXm79L.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81NQQyJABnL._SX522_.jpg) |
| Dausgaard II, Dacapo (http://a-fwd.to/2Z8SRWA) | Chailly, Decca (http://a-fwd.to/4MfNlSz) | Conlon, EMI (http://a-fwd.to/3rs76In)
|
* See Carmina Burana's comment below: Storgards was the first to record that version; Krivine also did. Just listened to Storgards (and then Chailly) again... it's still annoyingly underwhelming. So perhaps Krivine really does shine, between the two of them.
Thanks for your comments. It's actually the Sinfonietta rather than the Mermaid that I'm interested in (I have Chailly's mermaid and am happy with it) but that Beaumont Mermaid sounds attractive. The Chandos disc with the Beaumont Sinfonietta does specify licensed from Nimbus on the back cover, and it is my policy not to touch anything by Nimbus with a 10 foot pole.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RIvpJM5FL.jpg)
I think I will go with the Daussgaard Sinfonietta on Chandos (I've been happy with his work in the past) although his timings are a lot shorter than Conlon and I'm not sure that is good. Then I will look for the two symphonies (since I am also limited to the Conlon in those works).
I can't put my finger on what is wrong with the Conlon recordings, precisely. With a good recording (particularly of orchestra) my experience is if you listen too softly it doesn't sound convincing and as you turn up the volume, at some point it blooms, and if you turn it up to far it its too loud. Those recordings are too loud before they bloom, in my case. A lack of "air," as if each instrument is playing into its own little microphone but there is no sound of the space. It was recorded during a low-point of EMI engineering. The recordings they made in the 60's sounded a lot better.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 06, 2018, 07:44:27 AM
Thanks for your comments. It's actually the Sinfonietta rather than the Mermaid that I'm interested in (I have Chailly's mermaid and am happy with it) but that Beaumont Mermaid sounds attractive. The Chandos disc with the Beaumont Sinfonietta does specify licensed from Nimbus on the back cover, and it is my policy not to touch anything by Nimbus with a 10 foot pole.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RIvpJM5FL.jpg)
Oops... All that, and I got the piece wrong, that you were interested in.
Still, if I may correct you: The Chandos does NOT state: Licensed from Nimbus. It says: Previously released on Nimbus. It's not a Nimbus production... so your trepidations (which I share, if not to that degree) are perhaps not merited.
Quote from: Jo498 on March 06, 2018, 06:19:18 AM
I read in some booklet or guide that the "Mermaid" was unlucky since its premiere because this was together with Schönberg's "Pelleas & Melisande" and the latter was more popular with the audience right from the start.
Interesting. I can't evaluate that statement without more knowledge of how audiences reacted to both pieces. When I listened to the Sinfonietta last night, I was struck by what sounded like a reminiscence of Schoenberg's Pelleas, which was confirmed by this talk by Beaumont:
https://www.youtube.com/v/-JrAiNzqr_A
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 06, 2018, 07:47:33 AM
Oops... All that, and I got the piece wrong, that you were interested in.
Still, if I may correct you: The Chandos does NOT state: Licensed from Nimbus. It says: Previously released on Nimbus. It's not a Nimbus production... so your trepidations (which I share, if not to that degree) are perhaps not merited.
Your comments were still interesting and helpful.
Ok, I have to go to the Chandos web site and see if I can find the name of the record producer and engineer to confirm no Nimbus taint. :)
I cannot find more info on the audience reponse right now either, only confirm that both pieces were indeed played for the first time in one concert on January 25th 1906.
Quote from: Jo498 on March 06, 2018, 07:56:09 AM
I cannot find more info on the audience reponse right now either, only confirm that both pieces were indeed played for the first time in one concert on January 25th 1906.
Thanks for trying, at least. If you or anyone else hasn't seen it yet, the talk I linked to is quite enjoyable and gives a quick overview of Zemlinsky's life and work.
I'm ambivalent about a lot of what I've heard of his music, personally, but found the string quartets quite enjoyable when I heard them.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 06, 2018, 07:47:33 AM
Oops... All that, and I got the piece wrong, that you were interested in.
Still, if I may correct you: The Chandos does NOT state: Licensed from Nimbus. It says: Previously released on Nimbus. It's not a Nimbus production... so your trepidations (which I share, if not to that degree) are perhaps not merited.
According to the Chandos web site, only one track is produced by Ralph Couzens (the Chandos guy). The rest is produced by Dominic Fyfe. Dominic's name is associate with Nimbus recordings. ??? >:(
https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHAN%2010204
I see there is a Hyperion recording of the Symphonies, any comments?
[asin]B00GMH2VVQ[/asin]
I usually think of Brabbins as workmanlike but not inspired.
I think I will spring for the Dausgaard Sinfonietta, and look for recordings of the string quartets (I have at least one of them as a filler on a disc, but not the set). Any recommendations for the quartets from partisans of them? I noticed there is a Chandos set, and maybe one on DGG. The vocal music doesn't interest me, although I have and like a DVD of "The Dwarf."
Parenthetically, I sprang for the Dausgaard Sinfonietta, myself.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 06, 2018, 09:23:13 AM
Parenthetically, I sprang for the Dausgaard Sinfonietta, myself.
Big day for Dausgaard, he might be able to treat himself to a nice cafe latte with the revenue he's collected today!
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 06, 2018, 09:06:25 AM
I think I will spring for the Dausgaard Sinfonietta, and look for recordings of the string quartets (I have at least one of them as a filler on a disc, but not the set). Any recommendations for the quartets from partisans of them? I noticed there is a Chandos set, and maybe one on DGG.
There are two Chandos sets, aren't there? One with the Schoenberg Quartet (http://a-fwd.to/5vMRkvl) and one with the Brodsky Quartet (http://a-fwd.to/7siVg2p) (most complete but a dud).
I don't have and know the La Salle Quartet (http://a-fwd.to/DyJZXSW)'s version, but I'm intrigued!
I like this disc of SQ4ts 2 & 4 (http://a-fwd.to/55mtLjS) quite a bit... with the aptly named Zemlinksy Quartet on Praga. (the other two are here (http://a-fwd.to/apcDKVU); I will get them before long; it might be my favorite cycle then.)
Ditto the Escher Quartet on Naxos (http://a-fwd.to/5B4s9ZH), which I reckon ought to be pretty good. Corda quartet's cycle I don't know.
You may not like to hear it, but I'm actually most enamored by the Artis Quartet's performances (
1 & 2 (http://a-fwd.to/6TMU1q7);
3 & 4 (http://a-fwd.to/sn4mXZU)) on ... you've guessed it: Nimbus.
QuoteThe vocal music doesn't interest me, although I have and like a DVD of "The Dwarf."
That's a pity... because I think that Zemlinsky might be at his best in the orchestral songs... http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/04/dip-your-ears-no-56.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/04/dip-your-ears-no-56.html)
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 06, 2018, 10:34:44 AM
That's a pity... because I think that Zemlinsky might be at his best in the orchestral songs... http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/04/dip-your-ears-no-56.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/04/dip-your-ears-no-56.html)
Amen! One of the greatest works ever: the
6 Orchestral Songs Opus 13 on texts by
Maeterlinck.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 06, 2018, 09:06:25 AM
I think I will spring for the Dausgaard Sinfonietta, and look for recordings of the string quartets (I have at least one of them as a filler on a disc, but not the set). Any recommendations for the quartets from partisans of them?
I have not listened to others for comparison, I do like the
LaSalle Quartet:
[asin]B00E5YNBSU[/asin]
Note that the symphonies are very early works, unlike the "Lyrische Symphonie" and Sinfonietta.
Of the quartets, I have heard several disks. The most "viennese" must be the Artis, the LaSalle was the first complete recording and it holds up quite well although the sound and playing is no way as luscious as the Artis. The Naxos also seems very good, so if the price is an issue, go for them.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on March 06, 2018, 10:34:44 AM
There are two Chandos sets, aren't there? One with the Schoenberg Quartet (http://a-fwd.to/5vMRkvl) and one with the Brodsky Quartet (http://a-fwd.to/7siVg2p) (most complete but a dud).
I don't have and know the La Salle Quartet (http://a-fwd.to/DyJZXSW)'s version, but I'm intrigued!
I like this disc of SQ4ts 2 & 4 (http://a-fwd.to/55mtLjS) quite a bit... with the aptly named Zemlinksy Quartet on Praga. (the other two are here (http://a-fwd.to/apcDKVU); I will get them before long; it might be my favorite cycle then.)
Ditto the Escher Quartet on Naxos (http://a-fwd.to/5B4s9ZH), which I reckon ought to be pretty good. Corda quartet's cycle I don't know.
You may not like to hear it, but I'm actually most enamored by the Artis Quartet's performances (1 & 2 (http://a-fwd.to/6TMU1q7); 3 & 4 (http://a-fwd.to/sn4mXZU)) on ... you've guessed it: Nimbus.
That's a pity... because I think that Zemlinsky might be at his best in the orchestral songs... http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/04/dip-your-ears-no-56.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2006/04/dip-your-ears-no-56.html)
Those two Praga releases don't make a cycle, 1+4 and 2+4, no 3, and they're by two different ensembles (The Praga quartet and the Zemlinsky quartet, confusing one quartet with same name as the label, the other with the same name as the composer.). I already have the one with 1+4.
I'm sure the La Salle is good, but early digital DGG string quartets recording seems like a recipe for disaster. I think I'll give the Schoenberg quartet a try.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on March 06, 2018, 10:46:24 AM
I have not listened to others for comparison, I do like the LaSalle Quartet:
[asin]B00E5YNBSU[/asin]
That box is a temptation, I admit. I loved the La Salle when I had their late Beethoven on vinyl, but on CD DGG transformed it into a fingernails-on-the-chalkboard concerto. I fear the same here.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 06, 2018, 10:52:19 AM
Those two Praga releases don't make a cycle, 1+4 and 2+4, no 3, and they're by two different ensembles (The Praga quartet and the Zemlinsky quartet, confusing one quartet with same name as the label, the other with the same name as the composer.). I already have the one with 1+4.
I'm sure the La Salle is good, but early digital DGG string quartets recording seems like a recipe for disaster. I think I'll give the Schoenberg quartet a try.
FWIW, I got the Schoenberg Quartet set on Chandos about a year ago, and enjoyed it a lot. I found
Zemlinsky 's
SQ No. 3, op. 19 an impressive achievement.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 06, 2018, 10:52:19 AM
Those two Praga releases don't make a cycle, 1+4 and 2+4, no 3, and they're by two different ensembles (The Praga quartet and the Zemlinsky quartet, confusing one quartet with same name as the label, the other with the same name as the composer.). I already have the one with 1+4.
I'm sure the La Salle is good, but early digital DGG string quartets recording seems like a recipe for disaster. I think I'll give the Schoenberg quartet a try.
I knew something didn't add up there, with nearly 20 years between the two releases. ;D
Quote from: ritter on March 06, 2018, 11:28:03 AM
FWIW, I got the Schoenberg Quartet set on Chandos about a year ago, and enjoyed it a lot. I found Zemlinsky ‘s SQ No. 3, op. 19 an impressive achievement.
The Schoenberg Quartet sure did great Schoenberg.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
I'm quite fond of Zemlinsky's dark and ultra-chromatic String Quartet no. 2, which inhabits much the same sound-world of Schoenberg's Verklärte Nacht and String Quartet no. 1. I was less impressed with Zemlinsky's premier work in the genre, finding it lacking in memorable ideas. I haven't heard his 3rd and 4th quartets yet.
The first string quartet is, while not quite a student work, still very much in the Brahms or even Dvorak vein, similar to the "zeroth" quartet by Schoenberg. I agree that the 2nd is a very important piece. The two later ones are also good but again different, less romantic-expressionist, shorter and more neoclassicist. Very roughly like the Sinfonietta compared to the Mermaid or the Lyric Symphony
Quote from: Jo498 on March 06, 2018, 07:56:09 AM
I cannot find more info on the audience reponse right now either, only confirm that both pieces were indeed played for the first time in one concert on January 25th 1906.
From Paul Banks' notes to the Chandos CD of
Die Seejungfrau &c.:
QuoteIt was at one of the [Schaffender Tonkünstler in Wien] concerts, on 25 January 1905, that Zemlinsky conducted the première of his symphonic poem Die Seejungfrau . . . The work should have marked an important step in Zemlinsky's creative life, but it had the misfortune to be heard for the first time alongside the première of another, even greater work, Schoenberg's Pelleas und Melisande. Zemlinsky was so taken aback by the relative coolness of the audience's response that he withdrew his piece, and it remained unheard (indeed was considered 'lost') until 1984.
By sort-of unrelated coincidence, that Cornelius Meister Mermaid is swimming my way now... so I can put my prejudice to the test, at last.
While linking to a cover image of a Szymanowski CD via Amazon I found this composer in the 'Customers who bought this item also bought' section. A (very) brief listen to the samples on the page was interesting. So would this recording of String Quartets be representative/worthwhile? Or is there another recommendation? Do tell. Cheers.
[asin]B00DOQBUWE[/asin]
Ironically, if you scroll up you'll see some discussion of just this subject.
I don't know that release. I've recently listened to the 4th quartet by the LaSalle Quartet and Praga quartet, and enjoyed both.
Quote from: Baron Scarpia on April 12, 2018, 10:14:43 AM
Ironically, if you scroll up you'll see some discussion of just this subject.
I don't know that release. I've recently listened to the 4th quartet by the LaSalle Quartet and Praga quartet, and enjoyed both.
I should have read the thread more thoroughly? ;D Yeah, I just skimmed it.
I've noted your recommendations for the fourth. Cheers.
You'll like these, Nik :)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 12, 2018, 10:32:27 AM
You'll like these, Nik :)
Yeah, even from the few bars in the short preview(s) they sound interesting. :)
I have not done A-B comparison but I have the LaSalle, one disk of the Artis, another one and one of the Naxos and the Naxos recording holds up very well and I doubt that any of the other available recordings is obviously superior.
The only recording of Zemlinsky quartets that didn't work for me was the Lark Quartet.
Today, Die Seejungfrau has been around my ears. I had not contemplated its huge potential before. I've come to the conclusion that it is deservedly a masterpiece. Subtleties and sensuality are the main features I feel, there is a right balance between lyricism and power without being never bombastic. Some Scriabinesque touches enhance the feeling of beauty to it. The orchestration is luxuriant, a fine example of brilliant orchestral control.
All in all, I've fallen in love with it.
The Chailly's recording was the one I listened to. Details and atmosphere are given with a persuasive playing.
(https://resources.wimpmusic.com/images/467ba2a3/b93d/443c/baa1/056c8bab27cd/640x640.jpg)
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 24, 2018, 02:47:44 PM
Today, Die Seejungfrau has been around my ears. I had not contemplated its huge potential before. I've come to the conclusion that it is deservedly a masterpiece. Subtleties and sensuality are the main features I feel, there is a right balance between lyricism and power without being never bombastic. Some Scriabinesque touches enhance the feeling of beauty to it. The orchestration is luxuriant, a fine example of brilliant orchestral control.
All in all, I've fallen in love with it.
The Chailly's recording was the one I listened to. Details and atmosphere are given with a persuasive playing.
(https://resources.wimpmusic.com/images/467ba2a3/b93d/443c/baa1/056c8bab27cd/640x640.jpg)
Chailly really brings out the "luxuriant" aspects: an all-around A+ performance for an all-around A+ opus! Allow me to recommend the
6 Orchesterlieder with texts by
Maurice Maeterlinck.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 24, 2018, 02:47:44 PM
Today, Die Seejungfrau has been around my ears. I had not contemplated its huge potential before. I've come to the conclusion that it is deservedly a masterpiece. Subtleties and sensuality are the main features I feel, there is a right balance between lyricism and power without being never bombastic. Some Scriabinesque touches enhance the feeling of beauty to it. The orchestration is luxuriant, a fine example of brilliant orchestral control.
All in all, I've fallen in love with it.
The Chailly's recording was the one I listened to. Details and atmosphere are given with a persuasive playing.
(https://resources.wimpmusic.com/images/467ba2a3/b93d/443c/baa1/056c8bab27cd/640x640.jpg)
It has the most magical opening in the watery depths and is my favourite work by Zemlinsky. That CD was also a comparatively recent acquisition for me and it is excellent in all respects.
Quote from: Cato on September 24, 2018, 03:41:09 PM
Chailly really brings out the "luxuriant" aspects: an all-around A+ performance for an all-around A+ opus! Allow me to recommend the 6 Orchesterlieder with texts by Maurice Maeterlinck.
Oh yes, luxuriant is a quite apt word for the whole work and performance.
I'm gonna investigate the Lieder. Thanks for it.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 24, 2018, 11:46:53 PM
It has the most magical opening in the watery depths and is my favourite work by Zemlinsky. That CD was also a comparatively recent acquisition for me and it is excellent in all respects.
Indeed! The performance is a benchmark IMHO. The work is really magical from its very beginning. I'm still stunned by it.
The choral/vocal works by Zemlinsky are interesting examples in the late-romantic tradition. I listened to some of them (Minnelied, Frühlingsglaube, Geheimnis, Waldgespräch, the Psalms, Frühlingsbegräbnis and the Maeterlinck-Lieder). I only knew his orchestral and some chamber works, but this part of his output is quite worth listening. The EMI set contains some of them.
In addition, a good revelation (among many recently) has been Ein Tanzpoem, or the intended ballet music to Das Glaserne Herz. Simply wonderful, a sort of ballet-poem as its name suggests, with appealing Viennese airs and some exciting moments. I enjoyed it a lot. It should be better known. It's not as spectacular as Die Seejungfrau but it's pretty close.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51MBzlCJ7TL.jpg)
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 27, 2018, 04:55:53 PM
The choral/vocal works by Zemlinsky are interesting examples in the late-romantic tradition. I listened to some of them (Minnelied, Frühlingsglaube, Geheimnis, Waldgespräch, the Psalms, Frühlingsbegräbnis and the Maeterlinck-Lieder). I only knew his orchestral and some chamber works, but this part of his output is quite worth listening. The EMI set contains some of them.
In addition, a good revelation (among many recently) has been Ein Tanzpoem, or the intended ballet music to Das Glaserne Herz. Simply wonderful, a sort of ballet-poem as its name suggests, with appealing Viennese airs and some exciting moments. I enjoyed it a lot. It should be better known. It's not as spectacular as Die Seejungfrau but it's pretty close.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51MBzlCJ7TL.jpg)
That is an excellent set!
James Conlon and his German band are most excellent!
I adore Zemlinsky more so than his pupil Arnold Schoenberg, The mermaid is one of my favorite symphony of his, I bet this composer as lot's more to offer.
I listened to, and enjoyed, for the first time today, Zemlinsky's fourth string quartet, performed by the Lark Quartet. Wow, what a piece. I will be exploring more of Zemlinsky's music for sure. I want to get my hands on Chailly's recording of the Lyric Symphony. Is that a piece worth exploring, or just a copycat Das Lied von der Erde? :D I listened to some of it earlier and liked what I was hearing.
Quote from: vers la flamme on November 24, 2019, 02:09:39 PM
I listened to, and enjoyed, for the first time today, Zemlinsky's fourth string quartet, performed by the Lark Quartet. Wow, what a piece. I will be exploring more of Zemlinsky's music for sure. I want to get my hands on Chailly's recording of the Lyric Symphony. Is that a piece worth exploring, or just a copycat Das Lied von der Erde? :D I listened to some of it earlier and liked what I was hearing.
Zemlinsky's
Lyrische Symphonie is a great work and, no, it's not a copycat of
Das Lied von der Erde. I'd try and get
all of Chailly's Zemlinsky's recordings (if you can find them).
Except for being a "song symphony" the lyric symphony seems quite different in mood etc. to Das Lied von der Erde. I have heard other instrumental workssuch as the Mermaid, but admittedly don't remember much. The Lyric symphony seems the best of them. There are several operas, I can recommend the Florentine Tragedy. And all of the string quartets.
Quote from: vers la flamme on November 24, 2019, 02:09:39 PM
I listened to, and enjoyed, for the first time today, Zemlinsky's fourth string quartet, performed by the Lark Quartet. Wow, what a piece. I will be exploring more of Zemlinsky's music for sure. I want to get my hands on Chailly's recording of the Lyric Symphony. Is that a piece worth exploring, or just a copycat Das Lied von der Erde? :D I listened to some of it earlier and liked what I was hearing.
Absolutely 2nd what Mirror Image says about the the Lyric Symphony - no Das-Lied-lite this! All the 4 quartets are extraordinary works. Chailly is well served by the Decca engineers in his Zemlinsky recordings but there are other fine recordings too - I like Sinopoli in Dresden and Beaumont in Prague (Czech PO). If you are at all into operas his 2 1-acters are powerful stuff too.
Wow, what a prolific composer he was. I will likely look into the Lyric Symphony first (which I'm sure probably has very little to do with Das Lied in reality ;D), and then explore the rest of the string quartets – I'm not much of an opera guy, unfortunately; this is what has stopped me from exploring further the music of Franz Schreker, another composer of this era whose music interests me. But I do appreciate the comments.
Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on November 24, 2019, 11:37:38 AM
I adore Zemlinsky more so than his pupil Arnold Schoenberg, The mermaid is one of my favorite symphony of his, I bet this composer as lot's more to offer.
Oh yes! And the Chailly/RCO recording does justice to the work. I love its sumptuous and sensuous harmonies mixed with that unbeatable orchestration.
All the string quartets are more than good indeed, except his early SQ in E minor. Rather forgettable and down-watered IMO.
First an foremost I would like to says Zemlinsky is one of my favorite composer of this era, romantic?
I find Zemlinsky's work The mermaids stunningly powerful, pretty, sweet fantasy, it remind me of the music of Wagner from what I heard...
Do you agree???
Is Zemlinsky closer in sound to Brahms or Wagner to you or I just smoke krak or something(joke), I mean it's grandiose tonal,dramatic remind me of some Wagner work but I cannot says which one, so my question is does Zemlinsky universe as Wagnerian element, but I acknowledge Zemlinsky is Zemlinsky, he as is perticular sound.
But I sometime drawn parallels between composer by accident don't know why, I just do it...
What do you think agree or disagree , serious question , serious answer, send me a Mensa dude of death to answer, send me a beautiful mind James william Sydis of GmG , I want to know if people agree or I'M wrong.
To me Zemlinsky is closer in sound to Wagner at least in this work, than anybody else or I could be wrong, permit me to be if I am... ;)
Whom here love both Zemlinsky and Wagner and can answer this, please someone I need a good smart intelligent answer, how come when I play this work I usually think of Wagner music?
I don't make connection does whit his pupil Schoenberg and the pupil of his pupil Werbern ,Berg to be clear.
What do you make of this please any musicologist around can answer this one or a specialist of this era, I,m not familiar whit, I'm a renaissance guy don't know mutch about this late 19century or early 20 century era per. se.
Couldn't this have gone under the composer's own thread? I mean it's like you don't know how to use the 'Search' function.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 17, 2020, 07:37:25 AM
Couldn't this have gone under the composer's own thread? I mean it's like you don't know how to use the 'Search' function.
Yes I should have but wanted to make a distinct tread on his music and Wagner music because same ink for me at least ,if op want move it to Zemlinsky?
I have no objections?
Zemlinsky's String Quartet No.1 is nice, especially the Artis Quartett Wien recording. It really has that "old Vienna" flavor.
Quote from: vers la flamme on July 20, 2020, 01:51:27 AM
Zemlinsky's String Quartet No.1 is nice, especially the Artis Quartett Wien recording. It really has that "old Vienna" flavor.
I agree dear vers la flamme, Zemlinsky is a great great composer in my book, a super good composer, to be honnest whit you I prefer Zemlinsky to his pupil Arnold Schoenberg his music has epic propportion in my mind.
have a good day 8)
Quote from: vers la flamme on July 20, 2020, 01:51:27 AM
Zemlinsky's String Quartet No.1 is nice, especially the Artis Quartett Wien recording. It really has that "old Vienna" flavor.
The Artis Quartett are the recordings I own of the SQs and they are superb in every respect. I kept trying to look for the Schoenberg Quartet's recordings since I loved their Second Viennese School performances, but I couldn't find them. I'm actually kind of I didn't as I'm now rather content with what the Artis Quartett bring to the musical table. Have you heard any of the other SQs? They're all excellent --- the 2nd is the big-boned, Late-Romantic one, but the 3rd sees a change in his style as the writing becomes a bit more edgy and streamlined --- I detect a Schoenberg influence in this particular SQ and then the last one is rather Neoclassical. A winning SQ cycle overall and one that deserves to be better known. Also, do try his
Piano Trio, Op. 3 (for clarinet, cello and piano). It's a just gorgeous and if you haven't heard any of the lieder (incl. orchesterlieder), orchestral works,
Lyrische Symphonie or any of the operas, then do check these out as well. So much great music awaits you!
Quote from: deprofundis on July 20, 2020, 04:45:41 AM
I agree dear vers la flamme, Zemlinsky is a great great composer in my book...his music has epic proportions...
Which works do you find epic?
Die Seejungfrau, currently buzzing through GMG 0:) , would be an excellent choice, along with the
Lyric Symphony.
Quote from: Cato on April 30, 2021, 09:02:12 AM
Which works do you find epic? Die Seejungfrau, currently buzzing through GMG 0:) , would be an excellent choice, along with the Lyric Symphony.
I'd say
Eine florentinische Tragödie is quite epic as well.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2021, 09:04:46 AM
I'd say Eine florentinische Tragödie is quite epic as well.
Good example! For those who have an hour or so...
https://www.youtube.com/v/74HxFkhx-6U
Quote from: Cato on April 30, 2021, 01:49:59 PM
Good example! For those who have an hour or so...
https://www.youtube.com/v/74HxFkhx-6U
Zemlinsky composed several one-act operas.
Der Zwerg is another one-act opera, but I haven't heard this one yet. I've got the Conlon recording on the way.
Great Sir.Zemlinsky is a god of is era (Romantic), well The Mermaids symphopny is deep , pognant, powerfull, profound is a mysterious way, simply you cannot hate or dislike it, if you like Zemlinsky like me, what are the LP done of The Mermaids please I KNOW THERE EXPENSIVE? cHAILY, zemlinsky my verdict the great undermine master composer. Like is orchestration a lots.
Quote from: deprofundis on May 07, 2021, 07:25:28 PM
Great Sir.Zemlinsky is a god of is era (Romantic), well The Mermaids symphopny is deep , pognant, powerfull, profound is a mysterious way, simply you cannot hate or dislike it, if you like Zemlinsky like me, what are the LP done of The Mermaids please I KNOW THERE EXPENSIVE? cHAILY, zemlinsky my verdict the great undermine master composer. Like is orchestration a lots.
Not sure but here are a couple:
Quote from: vandermolen on May 09, 2021, 01:23:52 AM
[
Not sure but here are a couple:
I have the
Chailly performance and can recommend it highly!
Quote from: Cato on May 09, 2021, 04:06:25 AM
I have the Chailly performance and can recommend it highly!
+1
I'll also add that if someone hasn't heard the Lyrische Symphonie, all of the orchesterlieder and lieder (w/ piano), the SQs or Der Zwerg, then they definitely should rectify this soon!
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 09, 2021, 07:46:02 AM
I'll also add that if someone hasn't heard the Lyrische Symphonie, all of the orchesterlieder and lieder (w/ piano), the SQs or Der Zwerg, then they definitely should rectify this soon!
The
Sechs Orchesterlieder with poems by
Maurice Maeterlinck is a brilliant work!
Quote from: Cato on May 09, 2021, 12:41:55 PM
The Sechs Orchesterlieder with poems by Maurice Maeterlinck is a brilliant work!
I can only nod my head along with your own, Cato. 8)
I adore the work of Sir Zemlinsky more than his pupil Schoenberg, whit all due respect '' The mermaids' and his piano works wow I just listen to this recently stream Royal Liverpool Philharmonic orchestra Zemlinsky it's stunning & fabulous. 8)
I've recently listened to Zemlinsky's Die Seejungfrau (the Chailly performance with the RSO Berlin) and I was very impressed by this beautiful composition, that has marvelous orchestration and timbric colour.
The first movement alternates very powerful, intense sections, using thrilling climaxes, with more lyrical, expressive passages, while the second movement opens with another strong climax abruptly dissolving (similar to Bruckner) before the music bursts out again into a massive crescendo that, after reaching the peack, softens and fades into the sound of the harp, absolutely stunning; I loved the use of the violin solo in that part, as well as its weave with the orchestra in one of the leading themes of the movement, it reminded me the Tanzlied of Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra. The third movement shows a melancholic atmosphere, especially at the beginning with the string section and in the final part when the first theme comes back, but it is hauntingly beautiful too.
it's a pity Zemlinsky is still a rather neglected composer, because his music certainly deserves much more attention; I'll be definitely interested in deepening my knowledge of his compositions.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 04, 2022, 12:53:04 PM
I've recently listened to Zemlinsky's Die Seejungfrau (the Chailly performance with the RSO Berlin) and I was very impressed by this beautiful composition, that has marvelous orchestration and timbric colour.
The first movement alternates very powerful, intense sections, using thrilling climaxes, with more lyrical, expressive passages, while the second movement opens with another strong climax abruptly dissolving (similar to Bruckner) before the music bursts out again into a massive crescendo that, after reaching the peack, softens and fades into the sound of the harp, absolutely stunning; I loved the use of the violin solo in that part, as well as its weave with the orchestra in one of the leading themes of the movement, it reminded me the Tanzlied of Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra. The third movement shows a melancholic atmosphere, especially at the beginning with the string section and in the final part when the first theme comes back, but it is hauntingly beautiful too.
it's a pity Zemlinsky is still a rather neglected composer, because his music certainly deserves much more attention; I'll be definitely interested in deepening my knowledge of his compositions.
Next stop the Lyric Symphony and the String Quartets. The late Sinfonietta is a knotty but impressively austere work - quite different from The Mermaid.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 04, 2022, 02:54:07 PM
Next stop the Lyric Symphony and the String Quartets. The late Sinfonietta is a knotty but impressively austere work - quite different from The Mermaid.
I second these suggestions plus the orchesterlieder, choral works and operas (esp.
Der Zwerg and
Eine florentinische Tragödie).
Quote from: Roasted Swan on May 04, 2022, 02:54:07 PM
Next stop the Lyric Symphony and the String Quartets. The late Sinfonietta is a knotty but impressively austere work - quite different from The Mermaid.
I've already listened to the
Lyric Symphony and it is a beautiful piece, with a brilliant orchestration and very well combined atmospheres between the passionate intensity and the titanism of Mahler, and tense, haunting dissonances nearer to the expressionist music. I was told that this composition is often considered as the little brother of Mahler's
Das Lied von der Erde, and as a matter of fact they share some similarities like the instrumentation, the vocal structure and the texts based on eastern poems, but apart from that, Zemlinsky developed his work in a very original, expressive way.
I've also listened to the String Quartets recently and I loved them, especially No.2,3 and 4; they were more dissonant than I had expected (since I read Zemlinsky was never very attracted by the use of Schönberg and Second Viennese School's sharp atonality) but certainly thrilling and mesmerizing; String Quartet No.1 is the only one which shows a more brahmsian style.
Ah, my favourite thread title! :)
The 'Lyric Symphony' and 'Mermaid' are great favourites.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 06, 2022, 12:05:51 PM
I've already listened to the Lyric Symphony and it is a beautiful piece, with a brilliant orchestration and very well combined atmospheres between the passionate intensity and the titanism of Mahler, and tense, haunting dissonances nearer to the expressionist music. I was told that this composition is often considered as the little brother of Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, and as a matter of fact they share some similarities like the instrumentation, the vocal structure and the texts based on eastern poems, but apart from that, Zemlinsky developed his work in a very original, expressive way.
I've also listened to the String Quartets recently and I loved them, especially No.2,3 and 4; they were more dissonant than I had expected (since I read Zemlinsky was never very attracted by the use of Schönberg and Second Viennese School's sharp atonality) but certainly thrilling and mesmerizing; String Quartet No.1 is the only one which shows a more brahmsian style.
Great stuff, Ilaria. I love all of these works you mentioned. I still recommend checking out the operas
Der Zwerg and
Eine florentinische Tragödie, but also the choral works like the
Psalms. Zemlinsky is a fantastic composer!
Quote from: vandermolen on May 06, 2022, 12:10:31 PM
Ah, my favourite thread title! :)
The 'Lyric Symphony' and 'Mermaid' are great favourites.
Agreed, they are really gorgeous.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 06, 2022, 12:35:58 PM
Great stuff, Ilaria. I love all of these works you mentioned. I still recommend checking out the operas Der Zwerg and Eine florentinische Tragödie, but also the choral works like the Psalms. Zemlinsky is a fantastic composer!
I've already listened to the
Psalms (both on the Chailly & RSO Berlin recording) and I enjoyed those works very much, they're definitely remarkable; No. 23 is very mystical and evocative, while No. 13 has a quite different atmosphere, more tragic, haunting, with more tension and sometimes anxiety (apart from the glorious ending), but absolutely compelling.
I haven't forgotten your suggestion about Zemlinsky's operas, I promise I'll listen to them this weekend; I've just seen they're about 1 hour/1 hour and half long....they'll be a piece of cake for someone trained with Wagner's works. ;)
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 06, 2022, 01:38:11 PM
I've already listened to the Psalms (both on the Chailly & RSO Berlin recording) and I enjoyed those works very much, they're definitely remarkable; No. 23 is very mystical and evocative, while No. 13 has a quite different atmosphere, more tragic, haunting, with more tension and sometimes anxiety (apart from the glorious ending), but absolutely compelling.
I haven't forgotten your suggestion about Zemlinsky's operas, I promise I'll listen to them this weekend; I've just seen they're about 1 hour/1 hour and half long....they'll be a piece of cake for someone trained with Wagner's works. ;)
Great to read, Ilaria. 8) And, yes, these operas' durations should be quite easy for you. :)
First listening to a Zemlinsky opera, Der Zwerg: such an outstanding work, I absolutely loved it! The music was impressive, very immersive and involving, and although the scene is rather static and without many changes, the orchestral texture and the timbric variations depicted brilliantly the intense, passionate feelings, what could be seen and what was kept hidden, with a powerful chromatism, but also sharper harmonies showing the tension and sufference of the inner essence of the human being; really striking. There was a great juxtaposition of real and illusive, between the colourful, bright, but at the same time cold and cruel, atmospheres of the royal court, and the tragic duality of the dwarf, whose love, unlike Tristan and Isolde, couldn't be realized be realized even in death. The lively, suggestive spanish dances also remembered me Debussy's Iberia and Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio espagnol.
Next stop, Eine florentinische Tragödie......
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 08, 2022, 05:11:33 AM
First listening to a Zemlinsky opera, Der Zwerg: such an outstanding work, I absolutely loved it! The music was impressive, very immersive and involving, and although the scene is rather static and without many changes, the orchestral texture and the timbric variations depicted brilliantly the intense, passionate feelings, what could be seen and what was kept hidden, with a powerful chromatism, but also sharper harmonies showing the tension and sufference of the inner essence of the human being; really striking. There was a great juxtaposition of real and illusive, between the colourful, bright, but at the same time cold and cruel, atmospheres of the royal court, and the tragic duality of the dwarf, whose love, unlike Tristan and Isolde, couldn't be realized be realized even in death. The lively, suggestive spanish dances also remembered me Debussy's Iberia and Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio espagnol.
Next stop, Eine florentinische Tragödie......
8) Lovely, Ilaria. Glad you enjoyed
Der Zwerg. I'm going to have to revisit this opera as it's been quite some time since I've heard it. Hope you enjoy
Eine florentinische Tragödie as well. This opera is much more Expressionistic.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 08, 2022, 06:28:02 AM
8) Lovely, Ilaria. Glad you enjoyed Der Zwerg. I'm going to have to revisit this opera as it's been quite some time since I've heard it. Hope you enjoy Eine florentinische Tragödie as well. This opera is much more Expressionistic.
I have, immensely, "
ein prachtvolles Werk" ;D Agreed,
Eine florentinische Tragödie swings between a great chromatism, dissonant counterpoint and harmonies taken to extremes that are echoes of Mahler and Strauss, and a more modern style; its anxious and elusive tonal language doesn't appear thorugh either piercing tensions or breaking solutions, but it is suspended, with shading lines. Anyway the result is terribly beautiful.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 08, 2022, 08:42:01 AM
I have, immensely, "ein prachtvolles Werk" ;D Agreed, Eine florentinische Tragödie swings between a great chromatism, dissonant counterpoint and harmonies taken to extremes that are echoes of Mahler and Strauss, and a more modern style; its anxious and elusive tonal language doesn't appear thorugh either piercing tensions or breaking solutions, but it is suspended, with shading lines. Anyway the result is terribly beautiful.
Excellent! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'll probably revisit these works or, at least,
Der Zwerg because I remember thoroughly enjoying this one a lot. Perhaps when I'm off the next three days.
Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's Sinfonietta: it has become one of my favourite pieces of this composer, such a wonderful, marvelous work, showing a brilliant inventiveness for the rich musical texture, a mastery of development of the thematic variations from thin motifs as well as a great timbric variety; the tonality is never broken, but it is taken to extremes till almost to shade off in some parts. The fast beginning of the first movement is based on a four-tone motif that builds a quick introduction and that opens to a first expressive descending theme; then a second theme as a variation of the four-tones takes back and develops the introduction with a thrilling, powerfully beautiful phrasing, which also has echoes of the viennese dances, in an ironic way of mahlerian influence. The deep, evocative second movement has great intensity and continues with a gloomy, melancholic atmosphere, underlined by floating passages in ostinato, never at full orchestra (apart from some points where it bursts out with energy before rapidly diminishing), but often with orchestral sections solo or even solo instruments. There's great intensity in the third movement too, which combines powerful, restless parts with slower, but passionate and lyrical ones, always weaved together by a splendid phrasing. Really a little musical jewel.
Speaking about the Sinfonietta, here's a very particular recording, the 1940 Mitropoulos performance. The sound quality is not excellent, but anyway it's worth listening since it's a historical recording, the radio broadcast of the American premiere of the composition (which was also listened by Schoenberg).
https://www.youtube.com/v/yxWXSiEJU-8
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on July 16, 2022, 01:27:38 PM
Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's Sinfonietta: it has become one of my favourite pieces of this composer, such a wonderful, marvelous work, showing a brilliant inventiveness for the rich musical texture, a mastery of development of the thematic variations from thin motifs as well as a great timbric variety; the tonality is never broken, but it is taken to extremes till almost to shade off in some parts. The fast beginning of the first movement is based on a four-tone motif that builds a quick introduction and that opens to a first expressive descending theme; then a second theme as a variation of the four-tones takes back and develops the introduction with a thrilling, powerfully beautiful phrasing, which also has echoes of the viennese dances, in an ironic way of mahlerian influence. The deep, evocative second movement has great intensity and continues with a gloomy, melancholic atmosphere, underlined by floating passages in ostinato, never at full orchestra (apart from some points where it bursts out with energy before rapidly diminishing), but often with orchestral sections solo or even solo instruments. There's great intensity in the third movement too, which combines powerful, restless parts with slower, but passionate and lyrical ones, always weaved together by a splendid phrasing. Really a little musical jewel.
Excellent analysis, Ilaria! It's been a few years since I've heard the Sinfonietta, but I remember thinking very highly of it. As you say, it shows Zemlinsky exploring darker, more harmonically ambiguous waters than his earlier works, if not to the degree that, say, his colleagues in the 2nd Viennese School did. Do you have a favorite recording?
Quote from: kyjo on August 10, 2022, 07:15:54 PM
Excellent analysis, Ilaria! It's been a few years since I've heard the Sinfonietta, but I remember thinking very highly of it. As you say, it shows Zemlinsky exploring darker, more harmonically ambiguous waters than his earlier works, if not to the degree that, say, his colleagues in the 2nd Viennese School did. Do you have a favorite recording?
Thanks, Kyle! Yes, despite his great friendship with the Second Viennese School, he never followed their path to atonality and dodecaphony; nonetheless the tonal structures of his late works clearly showed Schönberg's influence, being darker, tenser, and hanging in the balance between tonal and atonal (like also, for example, in the 3rd and 4th String Quartets).
About Zemlinsky's
Sinfonietta, my favourite recording is the Conlon/Gürzenich-Orchestre Köln, there the orchestral colour and dynamics are perfectly handled, with a full, clear sound and excellent tempi; but I also like the Dausgaard/DNRSO very much for its power and intensity.
Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's String Quartet No. 2: it is absolutely a haunting and thrilling composition, and quite modern for Zemlinsky's style, which sounds very influenced by Schönberg's music about the structure and the harmonies, although it doesn't break up with tonality, even if it reaches the extremes, with a sense of suspense and indecision in keeping the step and crossing the line. The piece doesn't sound clearly divided into movements, but more a single formal block and it flows on without solution of continuity, full of tensions, anxieties and harmonic distorsions, alternating glimpses of calm to restless, passionate passages bursting into strain climaxes that rapidly fade down; it shows a marvelous use of the variety of timbres (with the strings always able to be very expressive) and rhythms, with sudden accelerations broken by following distensions, to evoke a dark and dissonant atmosphere, which is absolutely mesmerizing anyway and can deeply capture and impress; but also rich, articulated, yet animated textures, that, despite the density, proceed through continuous transformations and elaborations of the thematic lines in a very inventive development of the music and give the structure a great flexibility.
I think the LaSalle Quartet recording is the best for Zemlinsky's 2nd String Quartet (as well as for all the Zemlisky Quartets), but the Schoenberg Quartet is superb too.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on September 24, 2022, 09:21:51 AM
Some thoughts about Zemlinsky's String Quartet No. 2: it is absolutely a haunting and thrilling work, and quite modern for Zemlinsky's style, which sounds very influenced by Schönberg's music about the structure and the harmonies, although it doesn't break up with tonality, even if it reaches the extremes, with a sense of suspense and indecision in keeping the step and crossing the line. The piece doesn't sound clearly divided into movements, but more a single formal block and it flows on without solution of continuity, full of tensions, anxieties and harmonic distorsions, alternating glimpses of calm to restless, passionate passages bursting into strain climaxes that rapidly fade down; it shows a marvelous use of the variety of timbres (with the strings always able to be very expressive) and rhythms, with sudden accelerations broken by following distensions, to evoke a dark and dissonant atmosphere, which is absolutely mesmerizing anyway and can deeply capture and impress; but also rich, articulated, yet animated textures, that, despite the density, proceed through continuous transformations and elaborations of the thematic lines in a very inventive development of the music and give the structure a great flexibility.
I think the LaSalle Quartet recording is the best for Zemlinsky's 2nd String Quartet (as well as for all the Zemlisky Quartets), but the Schoenberg Quartet is superb too.
Great description of the piece! I guess most people "learnt" this work via the LaSalle set on DG - the playing is great but the recording shows its age I think. Recently(ish!) I was very impressed with the Escher Quartet's cycle on Naxos - stunning ensemble playing and very well recorded - do dip your toe if you don't know those performances already.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on September 24, 2022, 10:57:37 AM
Great description of the piece! I guess most people "learnt" this work via the LaSalle set on DG - the playing is great but the recording shows its age I think. Recently(ish!) I was very impressed with the Escher Quartet's cycle on Naxos - stunning ensemble playing and very well recorded - do dip your toe if you don't know those performances already.
I think the 2013 remastered version refreshed the sound quality; that one is an excellent set and the pairing with the Second Viennese School makes it definitely worth having. I don't know the Escher Quartet's cycle, but I'll see if I can find on youtube or spotify!
This extraordinary recording of Lyrische Symphonie is unbelievably gorgeous. It knocked my socks off!
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA0ODU4OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1MTh9)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 19, 2023, 07:23:49 PMThis extraordinary recording of Lyrische Symphonie is unbelievably gorgeous. It knocked my socks off!
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA0ODU4OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1MTh9)
Great to know - I love that work.
Always good to see the return of my favourite thread title!
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 19, 2023, 07:23:49 PMThis extraordinary recording of Lyrische Symphonie is unbelievably gorgeous. It knocked my socks off!
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA0ODU4OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1MTh9)
Completely agree, Sinopoli's recording is powerfully poignant, but also intimate and contemplative; the passionate atmosphere created by the orchestral playing is so beautifully immersive, it deeply captures. Voigt and Terfel are magnificent, their voices perfectly match the musical textures. It is certainly one of the best performances for the
Lyrische Symphonie in my opinion.
Tomorrow, Feb. 22 at 10:00 am (EST), WDR Symphony Orchestra will broadcast
Zemlinsky's
Die Seejungfrau, conducted by Ingo Metzmacher. The performance was recorded Jan. 13, 2024 at the Kölner Philharmonie.
-Bruce
Youtube premiere I assume? The work is over 100 years old and has multiple recordings.
Quote from: Maestro267 on February 21, 2024, 12:36:45 PMYoutube premiere I assume? The work is over 100 years old and has multiple recordings.
Ah, thanks, my bad for using the word "premiere," which I changed to "broadcast."
-Bruce
Quote from: brewski on February 21, 2024, 03:11:07 PMAh, thanks, my bad for using the word "premiere," which I changed to "broadcast."
-Bruce
Thanks for the heads up. I have it on now (missed first 8 minutes).
PD
Well, that was lovely...very romantic...at times made me think of "The Sea" (perhaps the swelling and lush sound of the strings).
Sad that his music wasn't more appreciated (unlike his brother-in-law's Schoenberg)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 22, 2024, 06:49:23 AMWell, that was lovely...very romantic...at times made me think of "The Sea" (perhaps the swelling and lush sound of the strings).
Sad that his music wasn't more appreciated (unlike his brother-in-law's Schoenberg)
PD
Agreed; it also shows a rich and varied orchestral colour similar to Richard Strauss.
Die Seejungfrau is such a wonderful piece, one of the most beautiful Zemlinsky's works.
Unfortunately he is a quite underrated composer (alas, Zemlinsky was the worst champion of his own music), but undoubtedly a great one!
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 22, 2024, 06:49:23 AMWell, that was lovely...very romantic...at times made me think of "The Sea" (perhaps the swelling and lush sound of the strings).
Sad that his music wasn't more appreciated (unlike his brother-in-law's Schoenberg)
PD
The context of it being written as a kind of love-letter to Alma Mahler who Zemlinsky taught before she married Mahler is significant. He was besotted with her - they got secretly engaged - but she left him. The result in this work is the most yearning passionate score Zemlinsky ever wrote. Compare it to his late quite objective and indeed stern works and the difference is striking. It was only when Chailly recorded Seejungfrau for Decca (still one of the best versions I think) that most modern listeners became aware of him as a composer in his own right rather than as just a footnote in Mahler's life.