GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Thom on April 14, 2007, 11:37:44 AM

Title: George Lloyd
Post by: Thom on April 14, 2007, 11:37:44 AM
Some time ago Composer of the week (BBC Radio 3) was dedicated to George Lloyd. I made a recording of these episodes and was able to record all the symphonies (12 of them), played by the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra and several conductors amongst them Lloyd himself. I am still discovering this music but what I have heard so far was much to my liking, especially the 3d and 4th symphonies. Has anyone any experience with the music of this composer? I had never heard of him and so it was a shot in the dark, of which I am not at all sorry.

X
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 14, 2007, 12:02:06 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lloyd_%28composer%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lloyd_%28composer%29)

You lucky man, having all the Symphonies taped.
Tell us all about his music, I am very curious how they sound.

Could not find any commercial recordings.
You know of any?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Thom on April 14, 2007, 12:07:08 PM
If you don't mind Harry, I first quote the Times:

Quote:
------

Obituary

The Times: Monday July 6 1998

George Lloyd, composer died on July 3 aged 85. He was born on June 28th 1913.

George Lloyd's long career was a remarkable cycle of recognition and neglect. Prodigiously successful in the 1930's, he saw a promising future blighted first by traumatic wartime service in the Royal Navy, which left him incapacitated for several years, and then by a change in artistic fashion which meant that for decades his compositions went unheard. For a time he gave up on music altogether and became a market gardener instead.

Slowly however, he returned to composing and even more slowly his musical fortunes turned. With his health restored and the wider artistic climate transformed, he enjoyed an extraordinary Indian summer in the last two decades of his life. New works were written, recorded and performed. Other pieces were discovered and revived. All were greeted with popular enthusiasm that was almost without parallel in contemporary musical life. Given a chance to hear it at last audiences found that they loved Lloyd's work.

It was not hard to understand why. Lloyd was an unashamedly late- Romantic composer. His first love he once said has been for the Italian Operatic masters Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti, Bellini. Elgar was the English composer he most admired. Content to mine the expressive potential melody and harmony in the grand 19th Century tradition, Lloyd rejected the theoretical rigours of 20th Century modernism as a musical dead end. Here was a contemporary composer whose work sounded nothing like most contemporary music.

To listeners fond of asking why modern composers are incapable of writing decent tunes, Lloyd's music came as a welcome revelation. But the populist triumphalism of his noisier champions was no more accurate a reflection of his achievements than the grudging response of more professional critics. Conservative though it is in idiom, Lloyd's music is free of easy nostalgia and pastiche. He may have looked to the past for his inspiration, but his response is vital and intensely personal to the world in which he lived.

Born in Cornwall to a comfortable family with some money and a great deal of enthusiasm for music, George Walter Selwyn Lloyd missed much of his schooling because of rheumatic fever. He went on to study violin with Albert Sammons and composition with Harry Farjeon.

His was a precocious talent. His first Symphony, written when he was 19 was premiered by the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra in 1933.
Two years later his career was well under way. A second symphony had its premier at Eastbourne in 1935 and was followed almost immediately by a Third which the BBC Symphony Orchestra performed.

Meanwhile Lloyd's First opera Iernin had been performed in Penzance in 1934. The Times critic, Frank Howes, on holiday in that area, had given a glowing review, which lead to London performances at the Lyceum the following year. A second opera, The Serf was staged at Covent Garden when Lloyd was just 25 under the baton of Albert Coates.

The war put a stop to this musical progress. As Royal Marine bandsman, Lloyd doubled as a gunner, serving on the notoriously dangerous Arctic convoys. I 1942 a faulty torpedo did a U-turn in the sea and blew up his ship. Lloyd was rescued but not before he had seen most of his fellow gunners drowned in oil. The trauma and severe shell-shock exacerbated the weak health he had suffered as a child, bringing about a complete collapse. He attempted to come to terms with his grim wartime experience in his Fourth and Fifth symphonies, works which only the devoted nursing of his Swiss-born wife Nancy enabled him to complete (in 1946 and 1948 respectively).

Despite the severity of his illness, Lloyd managed to produce a third opera, John Socman, about a Wiltshire soldier at Agincourt. Commissioned for the festival of Britain in 1951, it had its first performance at Bristol. The libretto, like those for the two previous operas, was provided by his father William Lloyd.

Lloyd's health deteriorated further, and in 1952 he withdrew to Dorset where for 20 years he was a market gardener growing mushrooms and carnations. He continued to compose intermittently, rising at 4.30am and writing for three hours before the start of the working day. But he found it difficult to get his work performed and became increasingly disillusioned, seeing himself at odds with a musical establishment apparently in thrall to the serialist and a tonal orthodoxies of European modernism.

"I sent scores off to the BBC" he later said. "They came back, usually without comment. I never wrote 12-tone music because I didn't like the theory. I studied the blessed thing in the early 1930's and thought it was a cock-eyed idea that produced horrible sounds. It made composers forget how to sing."

Nevertheless, he was not entirely without supporters. Among those who continued to respond to his music's opulence, vigour and colour were the conductors Charles Groves and Edward Downes and the pianist John Ogden, for whom Lloyd wrote the first of four piano concertos, Scapegoat, in 1963.

The tide began to turn albeit slowly. In 1970's Gavin Henderson, then chief executive of the Philharmonia, gave useful support. The BBC, after neglecting Lloyd for years, accepted his eighth Symphony for performance in 1969 - and finally got round to broadcasting it eight years later. His Sixth Symphony was given at the Proms in 1981,and in the same year three of his symphonies were recorded by Lyrita Records.

But perhaps the most influential figure in the recent revival of Lloyd's fortunes was Peter Kermani an American entrepreneur and music lover whose enthusiasm for Lloyd's work led to deal with the Albany Symphony Orchestra from New York State. This brought forth a flood of performances and recordings of both old and new compositions. It has also brought Lloyd a whole new American audience and, in his own delighted words, ""All of a sudden buckets of dollars!"

Among the new works recorded were Lloyd's Eleventh and Twelfth Symphonies, which had their first performances in 1986 and 1990. Other major new compositions included a large scale choral piece, The Vigil of Venus, premiered at the Festival Hall in1989, nine years after its completion, an a Symphonic mass , premiered at the 1993 Brighton festival under the baton of the composer. The latter work was described by Gramophone magazine as "one of the finest pieces of English choral writing of the 20th century": the Times critic remarked, not unkindly, on its "overwhelming retrospection".

Lloyd suffered heart trouble last year, but recovered sufficiently to resume work on a Requiem, which he completed three weeks ago. He is survived by his wife Nancy whom he married in 1937. They had no children.

Unquote
--------

Indeed the keywords seem to be: Romantic, tonal, great tunes. Ina way he reminds me a bit of Edmund Rubbra which I like also very much.

X
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 14, 2007, 12:15:20 PM
Thanks for this wonderful but said article. But still could not find the Lyrita recordings nor any other.
You made me truly curious, so now I will roam the ends of the world, to get some music from him. :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on April 14, 2007, 02:32:54 PM
Thanks for this wonderful but said article. But still could not find the Lyrita recordings nor any other.
You made me truly curious, so now I will roam the ends of the world, to get some music from him. :)

The symphonies and piano concertos are on the Albany label, Harry, available from Amazon and Amazon UK. Full-price, though, which is why I'm collecting them  s l o w l y. . .

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on April 14, 2007, 09:59:26 PM
Lyritas will return in due course.  Had the good fortune to hear him conduct Symphony 11 in London and had some nice correspondence with him afterwards. My recommendations are symphonies nos 4,7,8,11 and 12. Slow movement of No 8 is great.

I also like "Scapegoat" piano concerto and the epic Piano Concerto 3, both inspired by World War Two (like Symphony 4).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 09:43:51 AM
The symphonies and piano concertos are on the Albany label, Harry, available from Amazon and Amazon UK. Full-price, though, which is why I'm collecting them  s l o w l y. . .

Sarge

On JPC nothing came up at all, so I thought nothing was recorded. Albany= full price, darn, just our luck again.
I ordered a cd from Sterling with the music of Olsson, at it will set me back 19,00 euro's.
Amazon UK it is then!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Robert on April 15, 2007, 09:45:24 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lloyd_%28composer%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lloyd_%28composer%29)

You lucky man, having all the Symphonies taped.
Tell us all about his music, I am very curious how they sound.

Could not find any commercial recordings.
You know of any?

HARRY,

Archiv Music has his complete output.....They also have one disc a compilation of his works. That disc is about 11 dollars all the other discs are about 17. I own his 5 7 and 11.  I enjoy his work but not enough to go after his whole ouput....
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 09:47:53 AM
HARRY,

Archiv Music has his complete output.....They also have one disc a compilation of his works. That disc is about 11 dollars all the other discs are about 17. I own his 5 7 and 11.  I enjoy his work but not enough to go after his whole ouput....

What to expect from this music, can you compare it to one of his fellow composers?
Describe his music, even?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on April 15, 2007, 09:54:06 AM
NAXOS has some, so you can sample a disc or two fairly cheaply.

I have heard 4 or 5 symphonies and one concerto, along with some shorter pieces. Frankly, I find Lloyd's musis rather boring -- a bit more interesting than Stanford, but not as interesting as Parry ( to name two composers somewhat similar ).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 10:02:44 AM
NAXOS has some, so you can sample a disc or two fairly cheaply.

I have heard 4 or 5 symphonies and one concerto, along with some shorter pieces. Frankly, I find Lloyd's musis rather boring -- a bit more interesting than Stanford, but not as interesting as Parry ( to name two composers somewhat similar ).

Never saw them on Naxos! Are you sure, could you post the images?
I have both Stanford and Parry, their Orchestral works.
But now I know were to place them.
Thanks. :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on April 15, 2007, 10:10:10 AM
Never saw them on Naxos! Are you sure, could you post the images?
I have both Stanford and Parry, their Orchestral works.
But know I know were to place them.
Thanks. :)

Wait, I was wrong. The Lloyd symphonies I have are of the more expensive variety. It is the others I have from NAXOS. Somehow I remembered the Parry as from another label.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 10:14:49 AM
Well it was to good to be true, I guess. :'( ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Robert on April 15, 2007, 10:19:42 AM
What to expect from this music, can you compare it to one of his fellow composers?
Describe his music, even?

Lloyds music is hard to categorize. it is very accessible. long-lined melodies, highly melodic and spirited. great orchestration, very tuneful...a little like movie music....it is interesting.....I have been thinking who he would be like and I  keep thinking Arnold without the edge....not as serious.....but interesting enough....I eventually return to him, he is not in my player enough....I have not given up on him....ASMF his fourth and ninth and cello conc are on my list....Im sure I will pick up his fourth soon....
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 10:21:38 AM
Lloyds music is hard to categorize. it is very accessible. long-lined melodies, highly melodic and spirited. great orchestration, very tuneful...a little like movie music....it is interesting.....I have been thinking who he would be like and I  keep thinking Arnold without the edge....not as serious.....but interesting enough....I eventually return to him, he is not in my player enough....I have not given up on him....ASMF his fourth and ninth and cello conc are on my list....Im sure I will pick up his fourth soon....

Thanks Robert, that's enough for me to go on. Are those Albany records any good, soundwise?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Robert on April 15, 2007, 10:22:57 AM
Thanks Robert, that's enough for me to go on. Are those Albany records any good, soundwise?

YES.....
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 10:25:15 AM
YES.....

Have to work extra hard to pay for all those nice recommendations, O well................ :P
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: johnQpublic on April 15, 2007, 12:36:14 PM
Frankly, I find Lloyd's musis rather boring

Springrite & I agree on this one. But I'd call it banal rathr than boring.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 12:47:00 PM
Well everyone eats his soup as she or he likes it right?
I will try all of them and report back, but if it is anything like Parry or Stanford it will be oke with me!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Brian on April 15, 2007, 03:55:07 PM
Well everyone eats his soup as she or he likes it right?
I will try all of them and report back, but if it is anything like Parry or Stanford it will be oke with me!
Naxos just released Vol. 1 of the Stanford symphonies, and I am warming up to it. Harmlessly pleasant, I suppose, even catchy in places.

David Hurwitz is a big Lloyd fan apparently...reviews (http://www.classicstoday.com/searchlogic_default.asp).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 09:49:11 PM
Naxos just released Vol. 1 of the Stanford symphonies, and I am warming up to it. Harmlessly pleasant, I suppose, even catchy in places.

David Hurwitz is a big Lloyd fan apparently...reviews (http://www.classicstoday.com/searchlogic_default.asp).

Remember that in the mid-price also the Chandos recordings is available.
And I would like some feedback on the Naxos recording if possible. :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: tjguitar on May 07, 2007, 12:31:57 PM
Remember that in the mid-price also the Chandos recordings is available.

Are you talking about the Stanford Symphonies conducted by Handley w/ the Ulster? I like them, which is no surprise as I generally enjoy Handley, but is it really mid price? Isn't list price around $50 ? BTW, they haven't remastered them, it's a 1994 release I think.

They did however remaster and re-issue The 6 Irish Rhapsodies and Piano Concerto from the same recordings on a double disc set for $13.98...which is very good!  I'm hoping they do the same for the Clarinet Concerto and Concert Piece for Organ & Orchestra.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on May 07, 2007, 09:40:52 PM
Are you talking about the Stanford Symphonies conducted by Handley w/ the Ulster? I like them, which is no surprise as I generally enjoy Handley, but is it really mid price? Isn't list price around $50 ? BTW, they haven't remastered them, it's a 1994 release I think.

They did however remaster and re-issue The 6 Irish Rhapsodies and Piano Concerto from the same recordings on a double disc set for $13.98...which is very good!  I'm hoping they do the same for the Clarinet Concerto and Concert Piece for Organ & Orchestra.

Well, remastering Chandos recordings from 1994 is not really necessary, for I can say they sound well enough.
I remember Sarge saying the same thing about the price, but here in Europe  it is midprice.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: sound67 on May 07, 2007, 09:59:36 PM
Springrite & I agree on this one. But I'd call it banal rathr than boring.

Count me in on the banality charge. Innocuous, simplistic, harmless music. Clearly, the shell shock never wore off.

Thomas
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: tjguitar on May 08, 2007, 05:42:04 AM
Well, remastering Chandos recordings from 1994 is not really necessary, for I can say they sound well enough.
I remember Sarge saying the same thing about the price, but here in Europe  it is midprice.

Well technically theyre from the late 80s thru 91, the symphonies were just released together w/o all the other extras in 92-94ish.  But you're right, they're fairly recent enough.  Still, Chandos has remastered a number of recordings from the same timeframe.  I'm happy with the set, for sure.  I just hope they re-issue the clarinet concerto and concert piece for organ and orchestra as it's only available on a couple of single discs of symphonies and I don't want to re-buy those. for the "extras" :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sean on May 08, 2007, 08:13:35 AM
The opening of the Fifth symphony is one of the cleverest and even most memorable melodies I ever heard, hiding disturbingly strong emotions beneath a sunny surface- Lloyd being a manic depressive. I've tried a few other symphonies along with the Symphonic mass but though he has his own distinct voice I don't rate much of it that highly. A composer to explore more.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 08, 2007, 02:30:58 PM
The opening of the Fifth symphony is one of the cleverest and even most memorable melodies I ever heard, hiding disturbingly strong emotions beneath a sunny surface- Lloyd being a manic depressive. I've tried a few other symphonies along with the Symphonic mass but though he has his own distinct voice I don't rate much of it that highly. A composer to explore more.

Yes, I love the Fifth; it's my favorite of the symphonies I've heard so far. Today I heard 1 and 12 for the first time and was impressed (the First surprised me; I wasn't expecting much but it's quite an accomplishment for a 19-year-old). I also own 8, 9, and 11 but they haven't grabbed me. In truth, I haven't given them my full attention; I'm not blaming the music yet. More tomorrow...it's nearly 1:30 a.m. here.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Est.1965 on March 16, 2009, 10:17:07 AM
I have heard 4 or 5 symphonies and one concerto, along with some shorter pieces. Frankly, I find Lloyd's musis rather boring -- a bit more interesting than Stanford, but not as interesting as Parry ( to name two composers somewhat similar ).

WHAT???   >:(  What utter nonsense.  Lloyd is nothing like Stanford or Parry, not even close, I'm amazed they were held up in comparison.  And to say Lloyds music is 'rather boring' is enough to make me quite literally laugh.
Unbelievable.   >:(
Lloyds music is exciting and, for an Englsih composer, wonderfully creative and forward thinking.  As I've recently got his Requiem and some of his symphonies, I've thought of Lloyd as a breath of fresh air and a musically brilliant orchestrator.
Pah!  :P  :(
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Dundonnell on March 16, 2009, 03:36:28 PM
WHAT???   >:(  What utter nonsense.  Lloyd is nothing like Stanford or Parry, not even close, I'm amazed they were held up in comparison.  And to say Lloyds music is 'rather boring' is enough to make me quite literally laugh.
Unbelievable.   >:(
Lloyds music is exciting and, for an Englsih composer, wonderfully creative and forward thinking.  As I've recently got his Requiem and some of his symphonies, I've thought of Lloyd as a breath of fresh air and a musically brilliant orchestrator.
Pah!  :P  :(

I rather like George Lloyd as well, John-although I am obviously far too much of a spineless wimp to have said so before on GMG ;D I don't rate him as a composer of any real originality and I find his 'lighter' symphonies and the 'lighter' movements within the symphonies often somewhat facile. His slow movements however do have a considerable amount of depth, passion and sheer beauty. And, yes, I agree that the man could orchestrate!

My own favourites among the symphonies are Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 11-with No.7 being by far the best imo. I know that No.11 has been criticised a lot-but I happen to like the work very much :)

I don't think that Lloyd can be completely acquitted of the charge of banality on occasion and he was undoubtedly exceptionally fortunate to be able to afford to subsidise the complete recordings of his music but I agree that the comparisons with Stanford and Parry are, to say the least, strange :)

The bottom line is though that there is probably no middle way with Lloyd. People will either dismiss the music with utter contempt as totally 'irrelevant' to the 20th century, eg "George Lloyd's music is perfect for those who wish to ignore the fact that they are living at the end of the 20th century"(Mark Morris)or cherish the lyrical gifts of a composer who knew just how hopelessly out of fashion he would be for most of his life but went on regardless.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: schweitzeralan on March 22, 2009, 10:58:37 AM
Some time ago Composer of the week (BBC Radio 3) was dedicated to George Lloyd. I made a recording of these episodes and was able to record all the symphonies (12 of them), played by the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra and several conductors amongst them Lloyd himself. I am still discovering this music but what I have heard so far was much to my liking, especially the 3d and 4th symphonies. Has anyone any experience with the music of this composer? I had never heard of him and so it was a shot in the dark, of which I am not at all sorry.

X

I have been a strong enthusiast of George Lloyd's symphonies for several years and have recordings of his later works.  I particularly like the 8th and 9th symphonies. Several good posts on this erstwhile neglected composers are illuminating.  This is not a professional opinion but is more of an assumption.  Lloyd's work suggests to me influences from two significant sources in British music; namely Delius and Elgar. These composers created quite different musical styles, or patterns, as it were.  Lloyd's works have for the most part that "Elgarian" presence; however, there is a magical, mystical element, particularly in his 9th, which reminds me of the Delian, or of other composers of the "Bax Generation," who were quite influenced, in my opinion, by the music of Delius.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 23, 2009, 12:25:18 AM
I rather like George Lloyd as well, John-although I am obviously far too much of a spineless wimp to have said so before on GMG ;D I don't rate him as a composer of any real originality and I find his 'lighter' symphonies and the 'lighter' movements within the symphonies often somewhat facile. His slow movements however do have a considerable amount of depth, passion and sheer beauty. And, yes, I agree that the man could orchestrate!

My own favourites among the symphonies are Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 11-with No.7 being by far the best imo. I know that No.11 has been criticised a lot-but I happen to like the work very much :)

I don't think that Lloyd can be completely acquitted of the charge of banality on occasion and he was undoubtedly exceptionally fortunate to be able to afford to subsidise the complete recordings of his music but I agree that the comparisons with Stanford and Parry are, to say the least, strange :)

The bottom line is though that there is probably no middle way with Lloyd. People will either dismiss the music with utter contempt as totally 'irrelevant' to the 20th century, eg "George Lloyd's music is perfect for those who wish to ignore the fact that they are living at the end of the 20th century"(Mark Morris)or cherish the lyrical gifts of a composer who knew just how hopelessly out of fashion he would be for most of his life but went on regardless.

I am very much in agreement - even to the extent of really liking the inspiriting 11th Symphony (the only one I have seen live - with George Lloyd conducting). 'Like a cross between Ron Goodwin and Sibelius' is one description I have read of Lloyd's music - not entirely fair, but with an element of truth perhaps. Symphony No 4 is the best in my view, but also No 7 and 8 (great slow movement). I also like the 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto and the Khachaturian like 3rd Piano Concerto. He is a more interesting composer that often given credit for I think.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 23, 2009, 07:02:36 AM
My own favourites among the symphonies are Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 11-with No.7 being by far the best imo.

Symphony No 4 is the best in my view, but also No 7...

Since my last post in this thread I've added symphonies 2 and 4 to my Lloyd collection. The Seventh I don't have but I just placed an order. Hope to have it by the end of the week.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 23, 2009, 07:59:21 AM
Since my last post in this thread I've added symphonies 2 and 4 to my Lloyd collection. The Seventh I don't have but I just placed an order. Hope to have it by the end of the week.

Sarge

Let us know what you think.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Mirror Image on August 09, 2010, 12:57:14 PM
Lloyd's music (especially the symphonies) is something I have been wanting to explore for quite some time. I wish Albany Records would just go ahead and create a box set of the symhonies and other orchestral works like the concerti. I mean I wonder why they haven't yet? I'm sure they get some kind of feedback on this from time to time?
 
By the way, to compare Stanford's and Parry's symphonies to that of Lloyd is really like trying to compare apples and oranges. Lloyd isn't anything like them and the only affinity they share was they all composed classical music.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on August 09, 2010, 10:42:34 PM
O, dear I suddenly remember that a box with his symphonies is lying about somewhere, and I must start listening to it. I faintly recall a attempt that was aborted somehow, anyway what I heard made me sit up. This is the box that suffered my abuse. :)

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb79/walboi/srcd2258.jpg)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 10, 2010, 04:02:13 AM
I have that box too, Harry, but there seems to be a controversy about who really wrote those symphonies.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/Miss%20Marple.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Harry on August 10, 2010, 04:52:30 AM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh thats a marvelous thing you did there!!!!!! He looks like Miss Marple sure enough.
Bravo for you cunning, you almost got me! ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: snyprrr on August 10, 2010, 06:23:14 AM
exciting and, for an Englsih composer, wonderfully creative and forward thinking. 

Yes, for an English composer he not bad,... mean what do you expect, right? ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2010, 09:52:08 AM
I've always thought that George Lloyd looked like Margaret Rutherford (the first 'Miss Marple' on film).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on May 10, 2013, 03:01:26 AM
Some posts on the HB thread relating to the difficulty of Havergal Brian's later symphonies got me looking,out of curiosity,I suppose, for a George Lloyd thread. In many ways,Lloyd has to be the ultimate in easy symphony listening. Indeed,it is quite possible that if he had composed popular music he would be classed as 'middle of the road'!! What I DO find interesting about this thread is the number of posts by members curious about his music,who seem to have ordered cds of Lloyds music,in response to posts here;yet,the last post here is dated 2010?!! Could it be that their purchases didn't quite live up to expectations?!!!
I was also suprised to read that Dundonnell,who seems to have emigrated to the AMF Forum,is quite positive towards the symphonies of George Lloyd. I know he's not keen on York Bowen,having a penchance for challenging,predominantly sombre music,of the kind composed by Fricker,Cooke & Wordsworth,amongst others,so,I must say, I was expecting luke warm enthusiasm at best! Instead,he singles out his slow movements as having 'a considerable amount of depth,passion and sheer beauty". Adding,quote,"I agree that the man could orchestrate".

As to me;the only Lloyd symphony I ever owned was No7,which has a finale which sounds,at times,as if John Williams of 'Star Wars' & 'Indiana Jones' fame,has got in on the action! Not having heard the symphony for years,I recall a series of VERY LOUD climaxes,each one LOUDER and more spectacular,if that's the right word for it,than the one before it. What the heck it had to do with the legend of Persephone,I don't know?!! Judging by the sheer decibels erupting in the finale;old Indie Jones,or the Man of Steel himself,must have dropped in on the action,to rescue Persephone in person!
Either way,it certainly gave my record player speakers a thumping. Full blast with bass at maximum & my parents running for the nearest air raid shelter (tough luck,about that!)
I was a teenager then;now I'm middle aged and for the last few days I've been playing piano/instrumental music by Scott (much better than his orchestral music) Bax & Ireland;and currently,Piano Quartets & Quintets by Faure!! ???

What's happening to me?!! :( ???
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Klaatu on May 10, 2013, 10:52:41 PM
George Lloyd and Havergal Brian! Now, that brings back the memories....

Many years ago, in the days when I still had hair, I discovered the wonderful Vincent's record shop in Needless Alley, Birmingham (UK). Sadly, this emporium - whose sales staff all seemed to have the knowledge of a professional musicologist - has long since disappeared.

Lloyd's Fifth symphony had just been released, and this was the start of the composer's rediscovery by the musical media. I walked into Vincent's specifically to look for this LP.

Having found the Lloyd, I chanced on the Lyrita LP of Havergal Brian's 6th and 16th symphonies. A few years earlier I had seen the BBC documentary of his life, "The Unknown Warrior", and was fascinated by the man's story.

So I left the shop with both the Lloyd and the Brian LPs (plus a few others - Alan Bush and Edmund Rubbra, amongst them.)

On playing the records I immediately loved the Lloyd and hated the Brian - I just couldn't fathom the latter.

But an odd thing happened - I kept getting drawn back time and again to the Brian disc. Perhaps the music reminded me of one of those infuriating "hidden picture" puzzles that drive you nuts but you can't rest until you "see" it.

Nowadays I still like Lloyd - and I think his Symphonic Mass is a masterpiece which was unfortunately written about a half-century too late - but I have no doubt that Brian is a far more significant composer, although his output is wildly uneven.

Lloyd's Mass is to be performed this year at Truro. A recording is available on YouTube. Had this work been penned between, say, 1910-1930, it would have become a treasured jewel in the crown of English* choral/orchestral music; such a shame that it was stylistically so outdated at the time of its composition.

* I'm not sure whether Lloyd considered himself to be an "English" composer, or - as a true Cornishman would - a strictly "Cornish" one!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on May 13, 2013, 07:53:22 AM
I really like Lloyd too but have to be in a certain mood.  His music is well crafted, extremely melodic, old fashion, but if you like Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Arnold in his dances and less serious side, there is much to enjoy here.  I also think he reminds me a great deal of Derek Bourgeois.  The melodies aren't very sticky but are well constructed. 

I prefer the Lyrita box set of Symphonies 4, 5, & 8 with the more seasoned Philharmonia Orchestra under Edward Downes to the composers recordings with Albany.  My favorite symphony is No. 7 because there is an elegant depth to it.  I also enjoy the Symphonic Mass and Vigil of Venus very much.

One thing I don't fully understand, what is the nature of his medical problem that kept him away from composing for two decades?  I recall from program notes in one of the CDs that he didn't see combat during his military services though there was an accident.  Basically, does anyone have further details on his medical issues?  Was it depression? 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Brian on May 13, 2013, 07:54:31 AM
There's a big sale at ArkivMusic right now - all the Albany records are $10 each if you buy three or more. I'm strongly considering it; I have only the Fifth Symphony, but love that piece.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 13, 2013, 08:07:56 AM
One thing I don't fully understand, what is the nature of his medical problem that kept him away from composing for two decades?  I recall from program notes in one of the CDs that he didn't see combat during his military services though there was an accident.  Basically, does anyone have further details on his medical issues?  Was it depression?

Today we call it PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder). He saw 17 shipmates die when one of their ship's own torpedos malfunctioned during a battle, causing an explosion which ruptured oil tanks, flooding the compartment where he and 19 other bandsmen were stationed. Only three escaped, Lloyd being the last one to make it out but not before taking oil into his lungs and stomach. He was so traumatized, he couldn't function at all. Couldn't speak. Lost coordination and mobility. Doctors initially thought he'd be institutionalized for life. After his discharge, his wife nursed him back to health but it took three years.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sean on June 25, 2013, 08:34:25 AM
The centenary of his birth falls on Friday, 28th June.

I'm only familiar with the Third, Fifth and Tenth symphonies, A Symphonic mass and Charade but the opening movement of the Fifth has a marvellously sophisticated melody that seems cheerful enough but really masks darker emotions; Lloyd I understand had to deal with manic depression. The Mass is richly scored and the Tenth symphony is for brass- I'd like to explore more.

Couldn't see an existing Lloyd thread...
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sean on June 25, 2013, 08:37:01 AM
My regrets, this should be on the composers board- can someone oblige in moving it?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 25, 2013, 08:38:14 AM

Couldn't see an existing Lloyd thread...

Here

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,297.0.html


Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sean on June 25, 2013, 08:41:08 AM
Oh well. The search box didn't bring it up- maybe it doesn't include thread names and I need to be more creative.

Somebody do the business.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Mirror Image on June 25, 2013, 11:10:45 AM
Can't say I've been particularly impressed with any work I've heard by Lloyd. Certainly not up to par with some of my favorites.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 25, 2013, 01:33:27 PM
Fourth Symphony is the best I think. Powerful and moving in places, containing memorable themes, influenced by his tragic war time experience being blown up in a ship escorting an Arctic convoy. First movement played on the radio today.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 02:17:37 AM
Can't say I've been particularly impressed with any work I've heard by Lloyd. Certainly not up to par with some of my favorites.


I can say I've been particularly impressed with all the works I've heard by Lloyd. Certainly up to par with some of my favorites  ;) Warmly emotional music, generous melodic content. A brave individual hewing his own path in the post-war modern world.

Sarge

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 26, 2013, 02:52:35 AM
The centenary of his birth falls on Friday, 28th June.

Thanks for the heads up. A good time to revisit my Lloyd recordings. I'll start today.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sean on June 26, 2013, 04:50:22 AM
He did find his own path, always a good sign for some kind of thinking mind.

By the way I also bought that Handel op.6 Baroque high watermark under Brown & ASMF, lush stuff.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 26, 2013, 07:28:48 AM

I can say I've been particularly impressed with all the works I've heard by Lloyd. Certainly up to par with some of my favorites  ;) Warmly emotional music, generous melodic content. A brave individual hewing his own path in the post-war modern world.

Sarge
Nice to see someone sticking up for Lloyd,who doesn't seem to garner too many adherents these days. Some years ago,when Lloyd was 'rediscovered' (a bit like HB was) his colourful,tonal scores & biography caused a minor stir amongst some critics,some of whom were very enthusiastic about the recordings that were subsequently made. Every other magazine or newspaper seemed to have something about the 'shell shocked' composer,his subsequent neglect and extraordinary 'rediscovery'. He was interviewed on the radio & I think he was even on Desert Island Discs? This was before the recent resurgence of interest in composers like Holbrooke,Bantock,Scott and Bowen,amongst others,and it certainly got some interesting & useful debates going,about tonal vs progressive/avant-guarde;so good on Lloyd and his proponents for that!!
Then his 'star' seemed to fade and the notion that LLoyd was just a derivative,bland,forgettable throwback  seemed to multiply and take hold! Also Lloyd died,and we all know what happens to a composers music when that happens;even if he's very good!
As to me. I'm no Lloydian,or whatever you might call his admirers;but I do remember enjoying a performance of his Fifth Symphony on the radio. The Seventh Symphony was on the only Lloyd cd I ever owned,apart from a BBC Music Magazint cassette of his Ninth (I think?). As a teenager,Lloyds Seventh was a fun work out for my cd player,at full volume,with mega bass boost on full!! The Finale with it's VW (Walton?) meets Korngold meets Star Wars climaxes,each one louder,noisier and more spectacular than the one before it,was just grrrree-aat!
Not sure if I would like it now.....but I'd be very curious to hear it again. I think I might even buy a s/h copy later this year.
On a quieter level,some of Lloyd's slow movements are very fine. In these more reflective moments,I think Lloyd does have his own individual voice. I certainly prefer his music to that of Bowen or Alwyn! Maybe,another reappraisal might help. A mid price box set from Albany might help his 'cause'! I've certainly heard allot worse!

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2013, 02:08:50 PM
I liked the 7th Symphony too and saw him conduct Symphony 11 in London and corresponded with him a bit. Symphs 4,5,7 and 8 are the best ones I think although I also like nos 11 and 12. I think that he is a far more interesting composer than Holbrooke and Bowen. I like some of Holbrooke's chamber music but I find his orchestral works to be unreservedly turgid.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sean on June 26, 2013, 08:17:23 PM
Good stuff Cilgwyn.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2013, 02:20:22 AM
On a quieter level,some of Lloyd's slow movements are very fine. In these more reflective moments,I think Lloyd does have his own individual voice.

This trailer to a film about Lloyd begins with a bit of the Lento tranquillo from the Fourth Symphony (which segues at 1:12 into the first movement of the Seventh). Absolutely gorgeous. His father loved Italian bel canto. You can hear the influence, I think.

http://www.youtube.com/v/m-mAFoqTU4Y


Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 28, 2013, 03:22:20 AM
The Hurwitzer is a Lloyd advocate. Here are his reviews of the composer's recordings (the review of #5 can only be accessed by those with an Insider account):

Symphony 4  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13027/?search=1) "The performance captured here, under the composer’s baton, is superb, notably clearer and more sharp-edged than Edward Downes’ otherwise worthy effort on Lyrita....do listen to this intensely beautiful, atmospheric, and joyous work."

Symphony 5  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-10029/?search=1)  "....this outstanding disc presents one of the truly great Romantic symphonies in as fine a fashion as we have any right to expect"

Symphony 7  9/9 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13026/?search=1) "....he was a very fine advocate of his own music, and this is without a doubt one of the last century’s major symphonic statements."

Symphonies 2 & 9  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13023/?search=1) "George Lloyd’s Second Symphony is a remarkable achievement for a 19-year-old. In terms of structure, it’s loosely based on Tchaikovsky’s Sixth, with its peppy third-movement march (its tune fully worthy of the great Russian composer) and melancholy finale (bluesy rather than hysterically despairing). More importantly, the work shows Lloyd fully in command of his own personal idiom....the promise of the Second is abundantly fulfilled in the Ninth. The performances here are outstanding, among the best in Albany’s Lloyd cycle, with sonics to match."

Symphony 8  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12980/?search=1) "The symphony has three big movements, is typically colorfully scored, and sports a full range of arresting melodic ideas. This performance by the composer himself is just about ideal."

Symphonies 1 & 12  9/9 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12981/?search=1)  "The First Symphony is a pleasant, exuberant, but slightly anonymous piece in the tradition of the early 20th century English tonal school. The Twelfth, on the other hand, is clearly a work of the late 20th century, more ambitious in formal terms and scored with a full awareness of the potential of the modern orchestra. It’s melodic and harmonic character could have come from no one but Lloyd."

Symphony 3  9/8 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12983/?search=1) "Like Shostakovich’s First, written at roughly the same age, the music reveals Lloyd in command of a distinctive personal voice, composed of frankly romantic melody, contemporary harmony (with perhaps a touch of jazz to spice things up), and brilliant orchestration. In this last department, particularly, Lloyd had a real gift."

Symphony 11  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12975/?search=1) "...the Eleventh is simply chock-full of memorable tunes, arresting gestures, and brilliant orchestration. The idiom is unashamedly romantic in its grandeur and sweep, and in its concentration on the expression of human emotion."

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Brian on December 05, 2014, 08:34:37 PM
If you'll allow me to revive this thread...

Someone recently saw me posting in the Listening Thread about my listening to Lloyd's Fifth Symphony. In fact, I had listened to it twice consecutively (along with the Fourth). And whoever it was, they said they were glad I was growing to be a fan of this composer, or discovering his music, or some such thing. That was not the case.

In September 2008, Hurricane Ike besieged Houston. My college had all its students move back on campus into shelters for the hurricane, and we stayed in the cafeteria while the storm raged outside. I spent a long night watching the gale-force winds and rain attack our building, and at about 2 a.m. fired up my iPod and listened to two pieces of music. Bruckner's Seventh Symphony (accidentally fell asleep through the adagio: the only sleep I got that stormy night) and George Lloyd's Fifth Symphony.

Since then I listen to Lloyd's Fifth about once per year. That's not much, but it's enough for the music to stay with me. A symphony that truly contains everything: pastoralism, anger, lyricism, heartbreak, a happy ending. It's sort of the platonic ideal of the Late Romantic Symphony, with, as Sean says repeatedly in this thread, a complex first movement, as well as a passionate romantic slow movement (what a complex of melodies) and inspiring finale. It's rather much, in its hour of chromatic drama. The piece strikes me as romanticism in desperate search of modernistic credentials. An old-fashioned composer, it always sounds like, jumping on the bandwagon to sound like a new composer. And yet, in the face of the triumphal finale and its explosion of tunes and splashy brass parts, you can't help but resist.

Naxos Music Library finally uploaded the Downes/Lyrita box set of Symphonies 4, 5, and 8. No. 4 strikes me as a similarly masterful, even great symphony. But despite 6 years of love for George Lloyd's Fifth, I still haven't had opportunity to properly explore a single one of his other works. Until the time (and recommendations!) arrive(s), it remains, all by itself, on a short list of my favorite pieces forgotten by time, critics, and even GMG. This forum does a great job remembering great old composers who aren't remembered anywhere else. And maybe I'm complicit, because I've always remembered Lloyd's Fifth as a complete symphony, even a perfect symphony, without knowing any of his other music.

I hope somebody will tell me that some of his other works are even better. But if they aren't, well, one masterpiece is enough for anybody.

This thread is an interesting read, but nobody really describes the music, or explains how one work is different from the others, so I'm not sure where to go next. Anybody want to help?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 07, 2014, 01:53:42 AM
I think that Lloyd himself regarded his 7th Symphony as the best. It is together with nos 4,5,8,11 (which I saw live) and 12 the ones I listen to along with the fine 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto and the epic Third Piano Concerto. If you are only familiar with the symphonies I'd recommend these works too.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: amw on December 07, 2014, 02:02:13 AM
From the limited amount of description his music has received here, plus a few comments made by co-workers, Lloyd's music sounds like it is completely the opposite of anything I might be remotely interested in. Derivative, longwinded, bombastic, garish, high-calorie, Wagnerian, Mahlerian, ... like Bax minus the taste. (Not that Bax has very much of that in the first place ;D)

...So I've checked out Symphony No. 7 from the library. (Curiosity will kill me someday.) Will report back eventually.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 07, 2014, 06:37:35 AM
...So I've checked out Symphony No. 7 from the library. (Curiosity will kill me someday.) Will report back eventually.

I hope you survive your encounter with Lloyd  ;D  I just re-listened to the Seventh. I'm afraid the Agitato movement will be a problem for you unless you can, like you did with Bruckner 8, listen to it as an alternative score for Star Wars (it would work nicely, I think). I see cilgwyn agrees with me  8) Lloyd's music is cinematic, stylistically kin to classic Hollywood scores.

As a teenager,Lloyds Seventh was a fun work out for my cd player,at full volume,with mega bass boost on full!! The Finale with it's VW (Walton?) meets Korngold meets Star Wars climaxes,each one louder,noisier and more spectacular than the one before it,was just grrrree-aat!

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 07, 2014, 11:21:30 AM
From the limited amount of description his music has received here, plus a few comments made by co-workers, Lloyd's music sounds like it is completely the opposite of anything I might be remotely interested in. Derivative, longwinded, bombastic, garish, high-calorie, Wagnerian, Mahlerian, ... like Bax minus the taste. (Not that Bax has very much of that in the first place ;D)

...So I've checked out Symphony No. 7 from the library. (Curiosity will kill me someday.) Will report back eventually.

Let us know what you think.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 08, 2014, 12:15:42 PM
Listened to Lloyd's Sixth this evening. To continue the Star Wars' theme, the Adagio would fit the Tatooine sunset. Surely this is one of the most beautiful Lloyd movements, moments.

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/may2014/Tatooine-sunset.jpg)

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 08, 2014, 01:17:21 PM
"Derivative, longwinded, bombastic, garish, high-calorie, Wagnerian, Mahlerian, ... like Bax minus the taste."

Makes you want to hear his music,doesn't it?!! ;D I recall thinking that parts of the finale of his Seventh sounded like something out of the 'Empire Strikes Back'! Each climax bigger and louder than the one before it. Great fun with the volume full blast and lots of bass! The opening and ending of the symphony is,however,anything but garish or bombastic. In fact it has one of the loveliest openers of any British symphony I have heard.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 08, 2014, 01:43:37 PM
The opening and ending of the symphony is,however,anything but garish or bombastic. In fact it has one of the loveliest openers of any British symphony I have heard.

And the "epilogue" (the last five minutes or so of the last movement) is breathtaking.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 08, 2014, 03:11:26 PM
It's a long time since I heard it,Sarge. I do seem to recall now that it ends in the same way,as mysteriously and enigmatically as it began. A lovely slow movement too and allot of skilful,colourful,exciting orchestration on the way. I wouldn't mind having it in my collection again,but the postman think I'm a crackpot already with all the cds he's had to stuff through my letterbox over the last couple of weeks! (He probably approaches my letterbox with hypodermic in hand........just in case!! ??? ;D)
I also remember the Fifth had a hauntingly,beautiful slow movement. I taped the symphony off the radio at the time! The re-discovery of George Lloyd created a minor stir back then!

Maybe next May,after the election?! An avalanche of George Lloyd cds!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Brian on December 09, 2014, 11:06:47 AM
Listening to the Seventh for the first time now. Thanks, YouTube! The slow movement has just begun...the first had this interesting structural arc of beginning and ending in the mysterious fog and rising by degrees so gradually I never felt the gears shifting.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 09, 2014, 12:11:30 PM
Oh good it's at YouTube. I won't have to frighten that postman (with more cd packages!)  Thanks for that post,Brian! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: amw on December 10, 2014, 12:48:55 AM
So, Lloyd 7. I found it uneven and ramshackle. There are lots of passages that break immersion by being strongly reminiscent of something else (usually either Vaughan Williams or Bax/Delius, occasionally film scores). Even without those, it seems to have the Mahler problem of trying to do everything, at the expense of coherence. And yes, the Agitato movement frequently borders on melodrama, which images of Luke Skywalker piloting his space fighter into the Death Star could only slightly alleviate. At the same time, there are some lovely moments, particularly the opening of the slow movement (which has a reflective character not too far off from a lot of British 'pastoral' music, but in a unique voice), the overall concept of the first movement (who opens a symphony with a scherzo? that takes some labia to pull off) and several passages in the finale's descent into the depths. The xylophone solos are also an unexpected touch, even though I suspect they were cribbed from Bartók's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta.

A point of comparison that came to mind was Walton, whose music is quite similar in feel and derivation, though Walton always sticks close to classical forms. One might compare Walton in turn to Hindemith post-1938, and Lloyd to Hindemith pre-1918. As it happens I enjoyed Lloyd's symphony better than either of Walton's, not that that's saying much, but Walton was clearly the more disciplined composer with Lloyd coming across more as a 'talented amateur'.

Another thing that struck me was how old this music sounds, compared to the 4-movement Bruckner 9 I was listening to the other day. Harmonically, formally and hermeneutically Bruckner is more adventurous than Lloyd, even if Lloyd's music might be more 'up-to-date' in terms of compositional techniques—it sounds like he would have been a lot more comfortable being a student of Joachim Raff, whereas Bruckner's true place would be as the Germanic counterpart to Olivier Messiaen. But maybe that's a bit far-fetched.

I didn't hate it, but I'm not sure I'm that interested in listening to the other 11 Lloyd symphonies (+ a Mass of some kind) the library has collected. At least not in the next three months or so. Maybe if I ever get into Mahler.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Jo498 on December 10, 2014, 03:34:38 AM
Never even heard of Lloyd, but
What do you mean with "hermeneutically adventurous"?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 10, 2014, 05:20:04 AM
I agree with some of this 'analysis'. Although I seem to recall that this was what made it such fun! It is along time since I heard it though,and I was allot younger then!! I seem to remember that Khatchaturian was on allot!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 10, 2014, 07:08:18 AM
Before Lloyd is written off completely try Symphony 4. 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Brian on December 10, 2014, 12:59:25 PM
Before Lloyd is written off completely try Symphony 4.
I've heard 4, 5, 7, and 8, and 4 and (especially) 5 are my favorites. 5 is probably the most explicitly/deliberately old-fashioned, since it is so loyal to romantic ideals and harmonies and the classical sense of "balance". I also think 5 has the least "fat", because it has the most structure. (The 20-minute finale to 7 is fun, but it just kept going and going.) That said, what on earth are those five movements doing in the same symphony? And why on earth does it work?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 10, 2014, 02:30:29 PM
I like the way Lloyd pulls out all the stops in the finale of the Seventh. Each climax bigger and louder than the one before. I thought the Star Wars intrusions were Fun! But then there is that mysterious opening and epilogue that Sarge enjoys so much. I do agree that there is something ramshackle about it and a magpie quality about it all,but it's so unbuttoned and as vandermolen says,how it all hangs together is,if you do groove with it (to use hippy terminology) a minor wonder! I do find myself scratching my head at what exactly the myth of Persephone has to do with the technicolor tumult of the Finale? This is the bit where Luke Skywalker pops into the underworld with his light sabre. Why not? But just what was Lloyd thinking of?!! ??? ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 11, 2014, 04:43:02 AM
I like the way Lloyd pulls out all the stops in the finale of the Seventh. Each climax bigger and louder than the one before. I thought the Star Wars intrusions were Fun! But then there is that mysterious opening and epilogue that Sarge enjoys so much. I do agree that there is something ramshackle about it and a magpie quality about it all,but it's so unbuttoned and as vandermolen says,how it all hangs together is,if you do groove with it (to use hippy terminology) a minor wonder! I do find myself scratching my head at what exactly the myth of Persephone has to do with the technicolor tumult of the Finale? This is the bit where Luke Skywalker pops into the underworld with his light sabre. Why not? But just what was Lloyd thinking of?!! ??? ;D

Nice post.  :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 19, 2014, 04:55:55 AM
After making the momentous decision not to buy any more cds until next May at the earliest (bar the Testament & Dutton Brian releases) I was taken a-back to spot a s/h Albany cassette of George Lloyd's Seventh on ebay. My new self imposed rule not applying to cassettes what could I do? I had to buy it!! ;D
I also bought a Chandos cassette of Harty's Irish Symphony & Comedy Overture......because it was there and I think I might like it?!
In case anyone is wondering,my trusty old downstairs cd player is getting dodgy so I have an excuse (Some old musicassettes are getting hauled out. Now I'm glad I kept them!!)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 19, 2014, 05:37:05 AM
I'll have to manually turn the cassette over for the Luke SkyWalker finale! ??? Oh,the sweat &  toil! :( ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 22, 2014, 03:26:12 AM
And the "epilogue" (the last five minutes or so of the last movement) is breathtaking.

Sarge

I agree. Listened to no.7 today having not played it for a couple of years. I didn't find it bombastic at all and found the slow movement both poetic and moving, along with the epilogue. I found that the atmosphere of the piece stays with me and I enjoyed the Greek mythological inspiration.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2014, 04:05:06 AM
I haven't heard it in fourteen odd years and yet it's stayed with me! It would be very exciting to see all  that battery of brass and percussion in action in the concert hall,too! Oh,well!!
Khatchaturian's Second Symphony is another one that is often cited as being bombastic. Again,I hadn't heard it for years,but it 'stayed with me',as you put it. Hearing it again in the Jarvi Chandos recording (surely one of his best) it came across as a very poweful wartime symphony. Even those memorably very loud bits towards the end (you know the ones! ;D) sounded just right. The culmination of all the boiling ,seething drama and tension that is always,even in the most lyrical,tender,'Gayaneh' like moments,just waiting to break out.
His third symphony? Now that is bombastic! But possibly fun,if you're in the right mood for some!! ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2014, 04:36:48 AM
Having said that (see my previous post!) maybe his (Khatchaturian's) third symphony isn't so bombastic,if you take it on it's own terms,in the context of it's time and where it was written! This also may apply to Knipper's Fourth,a bit of a joke in the West,but the Russian people don't seem to have regarded it as bombastic. It was very popular there! Having said that,Khatchaturian's third does seem to my ears to suffer from that problem I do regard as bombast. Thin material! That 'big tune' that goes on and on,getting ever more discordant! But that's probably it's point I suppose! But why Vincent Price (as Dr Phibes?) playing the organ?!! (Of course maybe they had to like them! And did they have as much time to listen to their Melodiya Lps as we did? (When they arrived after weeks/months of waiting,that is!! ;D)
Gliere's third is another example. His material seems dangerously stretched to breaking point at times;but thankfully he's a fantastic orchestrator and he's very good at disguising it.
As to George Lloyd's Seventh,if memory serves correctly (the tape should be here soon) it's too full of good ideas,at least to my ears,to be in the least bit bombastic.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2014, 06:13:38 AM
Well I'll get to find out soon! ??? ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 22, 2014, 12:02:53 PM
Well I'll get to find out soon! ??? ;D

OT

I like all the Khachaturian symphonies, No. 1 is very underrated and the Jarvi version of No. 2 sweeps the field with its massively intimidating opening. That is my favourite version of his finest symphony. I enjoy the much maligned No. 3 too. Dr Phibes is also at the organ console in 'Sinfonia Antartica' included in the newly released Melodiya boxed set of the symphonies of Vaughan Williams (Rozhdestvensky).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2014, 04:21:45 AM
In case anyone is wondering why we are talking about Khatchaturian in the George Lloyd thread? We are discussing 'bombast'! ;D

Vandermole,I had a chance to hear Tjeknavorian's RCA recording of Khatchaturian's First Symphony recently via a superb transfer made from the original Lp. This reading just sweeps you along with it. Epic,poignant exciting,passionate in turn. This is a magisterial performance in superb sound that really needs to be made available on cd. The ASV is very poor,it just doesn't give you any idea of how good this symphony is. Why didn't Jarvi do it I wonder? There is hope however. I notice some RCA first time reissues which many had given up all hope of ever hearing again. The Danon Die Fledermaus for example (but the conductor left out Frosch!! ???) And the so-called 'complete' Gayaneh took years to release.

Anyway,back to George Lloyd!! ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2014, 05:04:00 AM
One point! If memory serves me correctly,weren't some of the George Lloyd recordings originally released on the Lyrita label? If so which ones? If so were they released on cd? I must find that old Penguin guide!!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 23, 2014, 05:43:23 AM
One point! If memory serves me correctly,weren't some of the George Lloyd recordings originally released on the Lyrita label? If so which ones? If so were they released on cd? I must find that old Penguin guide!!

The CD release with Miss Marple on the cover:

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/july2010/GLloyd458.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2014, 06:17:07 AM
 ;D Thanks Sarge! A Private Eye look-a-like,if ever there was! Of course,everyone know it's really Margaret Rutherford (albeit in colour)! Mind you,on second thoughts,are Lyrita absolutely sure they didn't get the negatives mixed up?!!

If you don't like George Lloyd it could be a case of 'Murder he composed!' ??? ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2014, 10:57:25 AM
In case anyone is wondering why we are talking about Khatchaturian in the George Lloyd thread? We are discussing 'bombast'! ;D

Vandermole,I had a chance to hear Tjeknavorian's RCA recording of Khatchaturian's First Symphony recently via a superb transfer made from the original Lp. This reading just sweeps you along with it. Epic,poignant exciting,passionate in turn. This is a magisterial performance in superb sound that really needs to be made available on cd. The ASV is very poor,it just doesn't give you any idea of how good this symphony is. Why didn't Jarvi do it I wonder? There is hope however. I notice some RCA first time reissues which many had given up all hope of ever hearing again. The Danon Die Fledermaus for example (but the conductor left out Frosch!! ???) And the so-called 'complete' Gayaneh took years to release.

Anyway,back to George Lloyd!! ;D


RCA have a lot to answer for John. Bax: Symphony 3 LSO Downes, Miaskovsky: Symphony 21 Morton Gould, Chicago SO (who commissioned the work) + the totally unsurpassed Tcheknavorian LSO Khachaturian Symphony 1 you mention. All best performances as far as I'm concerned and none released on CD. Shameful.  >:(
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2014, 11:50:22 AM
Yes,people have been raving about the KlassikHaus restoration of the Gould Miaskovsky 21 (and the Antar  with it was very good,too. Quite a nice coupling imho!) This Lp would make a fantastic reissue. Gould also made  excellent recordings of Copland's Billy the Kid and Rodeo. He seems to have been a very good conductor from what little I've heard. And there's another recording conducted by him that is supposed to be good. Unfortunately it has slipped my mind! Nielsen's Second,that's it! I bet you've heard it if it's any good?

My apologies for accidentally referring to you as Vandermole! My crummy typing,as usual!! ??? ;D

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 24, 2014, 03:32:58 AM
Luke Walker touched down today via my letterbox! Actually the Conifer cassette of George Lloyd's Seventh,which I bought on ebay! Very good condition too,I'm happy to say! A little tape hiss accompanying those soft opening notes,but I quite like it,as long as it's not too loud!
As to the symphony itself. I have to say I'm in agreement with Vandermolen and Sarge. This is the first time I have heard this symphony in years and imo it's not a note too long. I really enjoyed it. I think it has one of the most beautiful slow movements I have heard in any British symphony. I love the way he opens the symphony and ends it. The music just seems to dwindle away into silence. It has a mysterious enigmatic atmosphere in places which really seems to evoke that other world that Lloyd speaks off and the connections between it. I wonder if George Lloyd ever read any of the books of Marie Corelli,the Victorian novelist,who outsold Dickens,Thackeray and every other author you can think of! A Romance of two Worlds,The Everlasting Life (I love that one!) etc,etc!  Very strange books. A pity she became such a joke towards the end of her life. The books are a bit 'purple' by today's standards,but she had a terrific imagination! Gladstone and Queen Victoria were both avid fans!

http://mariecorelli.org.uk/ (http://mariecorelli.org.uk/)

It's more likely that George Lloyd read books of Greek legends. Popular ones when I was young included those of Nathaniel Hawthorne and Andrew Lang. Also,in cinematic form,Jason and the Argonauts! How I enjoyed that one! No one ever believes me of course,but Niall MacGinnis*,who played Zeus in that movie,was my childhood GP! Also starring in Night of the Demon,he retired to West Wales after he left acting and returned to medicine! I remember him giving my Dad a tetanus injection after he stepped on a nail while collecting firewood. The needles were all blunt. He kept trying one after the other. It wasn't that clicky little thing they use now! A nice man,though and a very good GP,when he had a decent supply of needles! I didn't know he'd been Zeus and summoned Demons in a film,then! :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_MacGinnis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_MacGinnis)

By the way! More confusion. A Conifer cassette? I thought it was going to be an Albany cassette! Lyrita! Conifer! Albany? Where the heck do Conifer come into this?!!! ??? ??? ;D



*There,got his name right!! :-[ ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on July 24, 2015, 02:47:13 AM
I like what I've heard of George Lloyd's music so far. I've got the 4th & 7th Symphonies, The Vigil of Venus and A Symphonic Mass. My favourite of these is the Mass. Fantastic that the 1990s can produce a late addition to the great canon of 20th-century British choral works. The ending of the Sanctus is one of the most incredible and powerful moments I've ever heard in music. Gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 24, 2015, 04:59:55 AM
I like what I've heard of George Lloyd's music so far. I've got the 4th & 7th Symphonies, The Vigil of Venus and A Symphonic Mass. My favourite of these is the Mass. Fantastic that the 1990s can produce a late addition to the great canon of 20th-century British choral works. The ending of the Sanctus is one of the most incredible and powerful moments I've ever heard in music. Gives me goosebumps every time I hear it.
Thanks. Must listen to the Symphonic Mass again. In addition to symphonies 4 and 7 I'd recommend No.8 and the Khachaturian-like No.11 which I was lucky enough to see live conducted by the composer. Also piano concertos 1 'Scapegoat' and 3. No.3 has a very powerful slow movement and a very catchy tune in the last movement.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on July 25, 2015, 10:49:04 AM
I'm listening to Lloyd's Seventh Symphony now, and his orchestration is absolutely marvellous! From the opening with that incessant repeated xylophone note, through to the brass-powered Agitato finale with its earth-shattering climax, this is an immensely powerful work.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Klaatu on July 25, 2015, 12:33:25 PM
I must agree about Lloyd's Symphonic Mass. A really powerful piece with a recurring Big Tune, and a late romantic idiom (very anachronistic for its day, but who cares?), it would absolutely bring the house down at the BBC Proms.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 26, 2015, 07:11:58 AM
I must agree about Lloyd's Symphonic Mass. A really powerful piece with a recurring Big Tune, and a late romantic idiom (very anachronistic for its day, but who cares?), it would absolutely bring the house down at the BBC Proms.

Thank you. I have it somewhere in my collection. Must find it immediately.  ???
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on October 08, 2015, 06:55:48 AM
The First and Twelfth Symphonies are now in my collection. I'm nearing the end of No. 1 as I write. A wonderful piece; the slow section (the symphony is in one continuous movement, of 25 minutes' length) is absolutely gorgeous! The whole work is wonderfully orchestrated. From 1932, so it belongs to the great flowering of British symphonies of that era.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Mirror Image on June 04, 2016, 07:44:15 AM
This documentary about Lloyd may be of some interest:

https://www.youtube.com/v/NGaYZ7K3oa8
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 04, 2016, 09:06:48 AM
This documentary about Lloyd may be of some interest:

Thanks, John!

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 04, 2016, 11:00:43 AM
Thanks, John!

Sarge

Looks great! Thanks from me too.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Mirror Image on June 04, 2016, 05:28:38 PM
Thanks, John!

Sarge

Looks great! Thanks from me too.

You're welcome guys. Enjoy! 8)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on June 07, 2016, 08:23:09 AM
This documentary about Lloyd may be of some interest:

https://www.youtube.com/v/NGaYZ7K3oa8

I really enjoyed this documentary.  Thanks for posting.  What an interesting example of perseverance and sticking to one's true voice even if its not appreciated.  It would have been much easier for him to just write contemporary style.  I am glad he stuck it out and became such a prolific writer.  It sort of reminds me of Derek Bourgeois as a very interesting and prolific (extremely prolific) example of writing whatever he desires regardless of trends.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 07, 2016, 11:40:29 AM
This documentary about Lloyd may be of some interest:

https://www.youtube.com/v/NGaYZ7K3oa8
I also watched it right through tonight (instead of doing my work  8)). What a moving documentary, especially the very ending. The early reference to Vaughan Williams was hilarious. It is really about the triumph of perseverance in the face of apparently insurmountable obstacles. Many thanks John for posting this.  :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on June 07, 2016, 11:50:11 AM
One thing I didn't understand - and maybe some Brits can elucidate us...what does it mean to have something "accepted by the BBC"?  They said after years of trial his Symphony No. 8 was accepted by the BBC but had to wait years to be performed.  What is the acceptance for and does that mean music doesn't get performed if its not accepted?   ???
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 07, 2016, 12:47:53 PM
Sorry to be critical be I have never got on with the Lloyd symphonies; I don't find them symphonic at all, they could end 15 minutes earlier or later and wouldn't make any difference. The material is often too reminiscent of big-band music or film scores.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 07, 2016, 08:01:19 PM
One thing I didn't understand - and maybe some Brits can elucidate us...what does it mean to have something "accepted by the BBC"?  They said after years of trial his Symphony No. 8 was accepted by the BBC but had to wait years to be performed.  What is the acceptance for and does that mean music doesn't get performed if its not accepted?   ???
My own understanding is that it has been accepted for (eventual?) performance and/or broadcast by the BBC. For example for performance at the annual BBC Proms concerts in London (or at one of their regional concerts) or broadcast on the 'Third Programme' (Now BBC Radio 3).  There was/is a committee which made a judgment about the work. In the 1960s/70s, when the chairman was William Glock, they were quite hostile to tonal music written in a more conventional idiom, such as that composed by George Lloyd.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 07, 2016, 08:09:16 PM
Sorry to be critical be I have never got on with the Lloyd symphonies; I don't find them symphonic at all, they could end 15 minutes earlier or later and wouldn't make any difference. The material is often too reminiscent of big-band music or film scores.
I don't like all his music and sometimes it does seem to go on for too long but symphonies 4 (born out of his traumatic wartime experience - he was one of the few British composers to serve in the armed forces, as it points out in the documentary) and 7 are very fine in my opinion and I am often moved by his music.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on June 08, 2016, 11:40:59 AM
My own understanding is that it has been accepted for (eventual?) performance and/or broadcast by the BBC. For example for performance at the annual BBC Proms concerts in London (or at one of their regional concerts) or broadcast on the 'Third Programme' (Now BBC Radio 3).  There was/is a committee which made a judgment about the work. In the 1960s/70s, when the chairman was William Glock, they were quite hostile to tonal music written in a more conventional idiom, such as that composed by George Lloyd.

I see.  So it almost sounds like a music publisher with their own network of orchestras (and all the associated PR that is associated with a broadcasting network).  Though I assume the BBC is not for profit whereas a publisher is, they are effectively adding this work to their roster of performable works.  This does not mean that if it isn't accepted into the BBC that it matters so much since orchestras like the Royal Philharmonic, London Symphony, London Philharmonic, etc., are not BBC but obviously orchestras such as BBC Philharmonic, BBC Concert, BBC NOW, etc., are.  Did I get that right?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 08, 2016, 09:46:27 PM
I see.  So it almost sounds like a music publisher with their own network of orchestras (and all the associated PR that is associated with a broadcasting network).  Though I assume the BBC is not for profit whereas a publisher is, they are effectively adding this work to their roster of performable works.  This does not mean that if it isn't accepted into the BBC that it matters so much since orchestras like the Royal Philharmonic, London Symphony, London Philharmonic, etc., are not BBC but obviously orchestras such as BBC Philharmonic, BBC Concert, BBC NOW, etc., are.  Did I get that right?
That sounds right to me although I'm no expert.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 08, 2016, 11:41:22 PM
I like his Seventh Symphony,the only one I know particularly well (although I do have  a Piano concerto,by him) because it sounds like film music!! ??? ;D I particularly enjoy the 'Luke Sky Walker/Star Wars' shennanigans of the finale,in which Lloyd seems to be trying to make each orchestral climax even bigger,louder and more spectacular than the one preceding it! What the heck it's got to do with the legend (I think it's about Peresephone) I don't know! I'll have to look at the notes again) but ooh,it's fun!! A lovely slow movement,too and I love the mysterious way the symphony opens and dwindles away into silence,as mysteriously and enigmatically as it began. It's quite magical. It's not an epoch shattering masterpiece,but it's not to be sneered at in George Sanders style either!!
I wish Telarc (not sure if they're still going?) or Chandos would do this one. It's the sort of music that would benefit from state of the art recording technology;although the Albany is very good. You could literally shake the house down!! ??? :o ;D

I currently have the cassette release of the Seventh,not the cd! I haven't bought the cd for fear that I will immediately decide I need the Whole lot!! :( No's 4 and 5 (which I DID hear on the radio & record onto a tape,some years ago) are certainly  very tempting! I remember the Fifth had a particularly lovely slow movement. Luckily,I do have a cassette deck. I may 'cheat' and transfer the cassette onto a cd-r. All I need is a lead,apparently,to connect to the pc.
I think the cassette of a Piano concerto I own is of the third? I think it has some connection with the war and a dreaded night time knock on the door?!! Someone here will know?! I think it has some good music in it,and that part is the most memorable. Maybe it goes on a bit too long for it's material;but I think,overall, I enjoyed it?!

I'll 'dig e'm out' a bit later!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 09, 2016, 07:54:48 AM
I like his Seventh Symphony,the only one I know particularly well (although I do have  a Piano concerto,by him) because it sounds like film music!! ??? ;D I particularly enjoy the 'Luke Sky Walker/Star Wars' shennanigans of the finale,in which Lloyd seems to be trying to make each orchestral climax even bigger,louder and more spectacular than the one preceding it! What the heck it's got to do with the legend (I think it's about Peresephone) I don't know! I'll have to look at the notes again) but ooh,it's fun!! A lovely slow movement,too and I love the mysterious way the symphony opens and dwindles away into silence,as mysteriously and enigmatically as it began. It's quite magical. It's not an epoch shattering masterpiece,but it's not to be sneered at in George Sanders style either!!
I wish Telarc (not sure if they're still going?) or Chandos would do this one. It's the sort of music that would benefit from state of the art recording technology;although the Albany is very good. You could literally shake the house down!! ??? :o ;D

I currently have the cassette release of the Seventh,not the cd! I haven't bought the cd for fear that I will immediately decide I need the Whole lot!! :( No's 4 and 5 (which I DID hear on the radio & record onto a tape,some years ago) are certainly  very tempting! I remember the Fifth had a particularly lovely slow movement. Luckily,I do have a cassette deck. I may 'cheat' and transfer the cassette onto a cd-r. All I need is a lead,apparently,to connect to the pc.
I think the cassette of a Piano concerto I own is of the third? I think it has some connection with the war and a dreaded night time knock on the door?!! Someone here will know?! I think it has some good music in it,and that part is the most memorable. Maybe it goes on a bit too long for it's material;but I think,overall, I enjoyed it?!

I'll 'dig e'm out' a bit later!
No.7 is very good I agree. Reading that a work 'sounds like film music' isn't a turn off for me either - Alwyn's Symphony 1 comes to mind. Yes, Lloyd's PC. No.3 has an excellent slow movement which I think is supposed to represent the dreaded 'knock on the door' in the night from the Gestapo in the occupied countries during the Second World War. The work rather reminds me of Khachaturian which is a plus for me. Also, that slow movement is not dissimilar to the theme music for the film 'The Diary of Anne Frank' (black and white version) in the section where they are all dreading being discovered by the Gestapo. The Lyrita set of symphonies 4,5 and 8 is brilliant if you want to ration yourself. They are my favourite recordings of all three symphonies.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 09, 2016, 10:10:26 AM
I like the Khatchaturian Piano Concerto,so I'm going to have to have another listen. Incidentally,I suppose I shouldn't really ask this here;but I will!! ;D Which is your favourite recording of that work? I have the Katin/Rignold recording on a cd-r. One I downloaded off one of those vinyl blogs and the other one,I haven't transfered yet,which is a paid for download. I coupled it with Prokofiev's third,because I couldn't think of anything else to couple it with. He should have composed two!! ;D
Going back to the Lloyd. I saw that Lyrita set of 4,5 & 8 in a paper list of cds that was sent out to me a few days ago. It's strange that a paper mailing list seems so extraordinary these days,when I used to spend so much of my time,in pre internet days,poring through those things!!
Of course,I'll feel an overwhelming compulsion to buy the cd of No 7,then!! ???  :( ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 09, 2016, 10:12:44 AM
Yes,you hear that. "It sounds like film music". My reaction. Does it?!! Okay,must buy that!!! :o ;D

Although,it does depend! If they said it "sounded like "Chariots of Fire"!"  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2016, 11:13:28 AM
Sorry to be critical be I have never got on with the Lloyd symphonies; I don't find them symphonic at all, they could end 15 minutes earlier or later and wouldn't make any difference. The material is often too reminiscent of big-band music or film scores.

I like his Seventh Symphony,the only one I know particularly well

Am I the only real Lloyd fan around here? (I mean someone who owns, and enjoys, most of the music.)  Among the Symphonies, only the Third and Eighth's last movements disappoint me (the latter too frantic, unvaried and long...at least it seemed so the last time I listened to it). Of the Symphonies, my favorites are 4, 5, 6, 7, 11, 12 and 2 but the rest have movements worth hearing (e.g., the First's Elgarian variations; the Third's Sturm und Drang first movement and tragic second). I agree they don't have a classical symphony's structure but the haunting moods Lloyd creates along with the inexhaustible melodic magic more than compensate. But then, I like film music too  8)

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 09, 2016, 11:41:20 AM
Am I the only real Lloyd fan around here? (I mean someone who owns, and enjoys, most of the music.)  Among the Symphonies, only the Third and Eighth's last movements disappoint me (the latter too frantic, unvaried and long...at least it seemed so the last time I listened to it). Of the Symphonies, my favorites are 4, 5, 6, 7, 11, 12 and 2 but the rest have movements worth hearing (e.g., the First's Elgarian variations; the Third's Sturm und Drang first movement and tragic second). I agree they don't have a classical symphony's structure but the haunting moods Lloyd creates along with the inexhaustible melodic magic more than compensate. But then, I like film music too  8)

Sarge
No, you're not the only fan here Sarge! I like piano concerto 'Scapegoat' and the epic No.3. Of the symphonies, of which I have every one on CD and some in multiple copies ( ::)) my favourites are No.4 (brilliant), No.7, No.8, No.5, No.11 and No.12. I need to explore the Mass and Requiem.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 09, 2016, 11:46:51 AM
I like the Khatchaturian Piano Concerto,so I'm going to have to have another listen. Incidentally,I suppose I shouldn't really ask this here;but I will!! ;D Which is your favourite recording of that work? I have the Katin/Rignold recording on a cd-r. One I downloaded off one of those vinyl blogs and the other one,I haven't transfered yet,which is a paid for download. I coupled it with Prokofiev's third,because I couldn't think of anything else to couple it with. He should have composed two!! ;D
Going back to the Lloyd. I saw that Lyrita set of 4,5 & 8 in a paper list of cds that was sent out to me a few days ago. It's strange that a paper mailing list seems so extraordinary these days,when I used to spend so much of my time,in pre internet days,poring through those things!!
Of course,I'll feel an overwhelming compulsion to buy the cd of No 7,then!! ???  :( ;D
OT. I like the Moura Lympany version and have just bought the famous version with Boult conducting. I think that my very favourite version is with Yakov Flier conducted by Kondrashin. It has just been reissued on the Italian Urania label but I also have it on Melodiya.  ::) Anyone who likes the Khachaturian PC should warm to the No.3 by George Lloyd (available used for under $2 on US Amazon).


Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 09, 2016, 12:02:11 PM
Of the symphonies, of which I have every one on CD and some in multiple copies ( ::))

I have some duplicates too  ;D ...like the Albany and Conifer 11; two copies of 9. Anyway, glad to hear someone besides me has invested in the lot, or nearly so. I'm missing a few choral and chamber CDs (some priced astronomically now).

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 09, 2016, 12:38:51 PM
I have some duplicates too  ;D ...like the Albany and Conifer 11; two copies of 9. Anyway, glad to hear someone besides me has invested in the lot, or nearly so. I'm missing a few choral and chamber CDs (some priced astronomically now).

Sarge
es
I have three copies of Symphony 4 one with Downes (the best I think) and two different releases of the same performance conducted by George Lloyd. ::)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Scion7 on June 09, 2016, 02:23:19 PM
from The New Grove:

Lloyd, George (Walter Selwyn)

(b St Ives, Cornwall, 28 June 1913; d London, 3 July 1998). English composer and conductor. He studied at the Trinity College of Music, where his teachers included Harry Farjeon and William Lovelock. His first success came in 1932 when he conducted his First Symphony with the Penzance Orchestral Society; the work was performed again the following year with the Bournemouth Municipal Orchestra. The Second Symphony (1933) and a canon for orchestra, since destroyed, were heard in Eastbourne in 1934. His father, who had encouraged him to write operas, became his librettist and their opera Iernin (1933–4), on a Cornish legend, was produced in Penzance in November 1934.

 Impressed by the opera, John Ireland recommended Lloyd’s Third Symphony (1933, rev. 1935) to Edward Clark at the BBC, where Lloyd was invited to conduct the work on 29 November 1935. In 1938 the Lloyds’ second opera, The Serf (1936–8), set during the reign of King Stephen, was performed at Covent Garden and in Liverpool and Glasgow.

During World War II, Lloyd served in the Royal Marines as a bandsman. Assigned to an Artic convoy, he was one of only four survivors when his ship’s transmitting station was struck by its own malfunctioning torpedo. Suffering from oil ingestion and shell-shock, he was slowly nursed back to health by his wife.

Eventually relocated to rural Dorset, Lloyd became a market gardener, continuing to compose in his spare time. Over many years, he accumulated a substantial portfolio of new works.  In 1973, he returned to London.

WORKS

Ops (all librettos by W. Lloyd): Iernin (3), 1933–4, Penzance, Nov 1934; The Serf (3), 1936–8, London, 20 Oct 1938, extracts arr. vn, pf; John Socman (3), 1949–51, Bristol, 15 May 1951

Orch: Sym. no.1, 1932, rev. 1934, 1980; Sym. no.2, 1933, Sym. no.3, 1933, rev. 1935; The Serf, concert ov., 1946; Sym. no.4, 1946; Sym. no.5, 1947–8; John Socman, ov., 1951; Sym. no.6, 1956; Sym. no.7, 1959; Sym. no.8, 1961, orchd 1965; Pf Conc. no.1 ‘Scapegoat’, 1963; Pf Conc. no.2, 1964; Pf Conc. no.3, 1968; Suite Charade, 1969; Sym. no.9, 1969; Pf Conc. no.4, 1970, orchd 1983; Vn Conc. no.2, vn, str, 1977; Sym. no.11, 1985; Sym. no.12, 1989; Le Pont du Gard, 1990; The Dying Tree, 1992; Floating Cloud, 1993; The Serf, 2 orch suites, 1997; Vc Conc., 1998

Wind: Trinidad, march, military band, 1941, orchd 1946, arr. 1990; Vn Conc. no.1, vn, wind, 1970; Sym. no.10 ‘November Journeys’, 1981; Royal Parks, 1984, no.2 ‘In Memoriam’, arr. orch; Diversions on a Bass Theme, 1986; English Heritage, 1987; Forest of Arden, 1987; Evening Song, 1991; King's Messenger, 1993

Vocal: The Vigil of Venus (Pervigilium Veneris), S, T, chorus, orch, 1980; A Sym. Mass, chorus, orch, 1992; A Litany, S, B, chorus, orch, 1995; Ps 130, chorus, 1995; Requiem, Ct, chorus, org, 1998; songs, incl. Wantage Bells (J. Betjeman), We'll Go No More a Roving (G. Byron), Noon on the River (W. Lloyd)

Chbr and solo inst: Lament, Air and Dance, vn, pf, 1975; Sonata, vn, pf, 1976; Miniature Triptych, brass qnt, 1981

Pf: An African Shrine, 1966; Aubade, 2 pf, 1971; The Aggressive Fishes, 1972; The Lily-Leaf and the Grasshopper, 1972; The Road Through Samarkand, 1972, arr. 2 pf, 1995; St Antony and the Bogside Beggar, 1972; Suite ‘Transformation of the Naked Ape’, 1972; Intercom Baby, 1987; Eventide, 2 pf, 1989
Arr.: Les sylphides, small orch, 1935

======================= will edit this down later =====================

Not familiar with the music - will give it a spin when I have some time.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 09, 2016, 11:10:00 PM
Thanks for the list of works. Have been listening to Piano Concerto 1 'Scapegoat' which is one of my favourite works by George Lloyd (I nearly wrote 'Lloyd George' then  ???) it is quite short at 25 mins in one movement but powerful and memorable. PC No.3 has a fine memorable and brooding slow movement and a very catchy tune in the finale which is stuck in my head. It is much longer at 48 minutes.

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on June 10, 2016, 12:17:11 AM
The Twelfth is probably my favourite Lloyd symphony, of the ones I've heard. The second theme (if I've got that right) is absolutely stunning, with a Nimrod-like descending chord pattern in its second half. The symphony also ends with a beautiful Epilogue, a fitting end to his symphony cycle.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 10, 2016, 09:59:16 AM
The Twelfth is probably my favourite Lloyd symphony, of the ones I've heard. The second theme (if I've got that right) is absolutely stunning, with a Nimrod-like descending chord pattern in its second half. The symphony also ends with a beautiful Epilogue, a fitting end to his symphony cycle.
Yes, very much agree with you.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 10, 2016, 11:54:56 PM
I listened to my old Albany musicassettes of his Seventh and third Piano concerto,after managing to hook up a lead from ye olde cassette deck,to the back of my mini hi-fi. I can see what you mean about the Piano concerto reminding you of Khatchaturian. It doesn't share the exotic sound world,but there are similarities in the bravura and percussive style of some of the writing. I'm not a musician,so I can't really hone in on the technicalities;but when you hear the opening the Khatchaturian definitely is the first comparison that springs to mind. Also,like the Khatchaturian,there is a poignancy to some of the more reflective parts which really does move me. The slow movement in particular,is a very striking and,imho,inspired composition. It really does stay in my mind. For all it's duration (and maybe it does go on a bit too long for it's own good?) this is music that I want to go back to and listen again. I honestly think that this is one of the most enjoyable,absorbing and satisfying,British Piano concertos I have heard. Great 'minimalist' 'artwork' on the cover,too! ;D I see that the Fifth Symphony was issued with a similar design. It makes the 'designers' of those old Aries LP sleeves look like 'Hipgnosis'!.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipgnosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipgnosis)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 11, 2016, 12:16:15 AM
I also think the way the Seventh begins and ends is quite masterly and superb. And the stuff in between is very good too!! ;D If the rest of his output is anywhere near as good,I can't blame Sarge for being a George Lloyd Groupie!! 8)
 I haven't got the Fifth Symphony,and,as far as I can ascertain, there never was a cassette release :(;but I can still 'hear' parts of it in my head,from a Radio 3 broadcast,back in the 80s;so it must have made an impression,too! I remember even going to the trouble of recording it on a cassette (from the radio) on at least two occasions. Alas,the tapes got chewed up,long ago! >:( And not in anger!! ;D

I also remembering hearing a broadcast of 'Iernin'!

I must admit,I wasn't aware of this. Is Sarge a member?!! :) Not that he should be. If I joined a society for every composer I liked I wouldn't have any money for cds!

http://www.georgelloyd.com/index.php/the-george-lloyd-society (http://www.georgelloyd.com/index.php/the-george-lloyd-society)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 11, 2016, 02:43:15 AM
I must admit,I wasn't aware of this. Is Sarge a member?!! :)

No, I'm not a member. If I join any composer society, it would first be HB. But I'll consider Lloyd. Thanks for pointing to its existence.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on June 11, 2016, 03:07:14 AM
After reading this thread, I have put symphonies 4, 7, 12 (and 1, which is paired with 2) in my shopping cart.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: North Star on June 11, 2016, 03:08:16 AM
No, I'm not a member. If I join any composer society, it would first be HB. But I'll consider Lloyd. Thanks for pointing to its existence.

Sarge
Karl will be in tears.  0:)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Rons_talking on June 11, 2016, 03:32:36 AM
I like his 8th Symphony to some extent but most of Lloyd's music sounds uninteresting. He tends to pause between ideas rather than eliding them which can make a listener grow impatient. The music is way too Romantic in its harmony, rhythm, etc. I can see the appeal for those who like that kind of sound, but for me it lacks more than it delivers.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 11, 2016, 03:57:32 AM


Karl will be in tears.  0:)

There's a KH society? ???  :D

You know I am a faithful reader and listener at Henning's Headquarters.  8)

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 11, 2016, 11:31:53 AM
I listened to my old Albany musicassettes of his Seventh and third Piano concerto,after managing to hook up a lead from ye olde cassette deck,to the back of my mini hi-fi. I can see what you mean about the Piano concerto reminding you of Khatchaturian. It doesn't share the exotic sound world,but there are similarities in the bravura and percussive style of some of the writing. I'm not a musician,so I can't really hone in on the technicalities;but when you hear the opening the Khatchaturian definitely is the first comparison that springs to mind. Also,like the Khatchaturian,there is a poignancy to some of the more reflective parts which really does move me. The slow movement in particular,is a very striking and,imho,inspired composition. It really does stay in my mind. For all it's duration (and maybe it does go on a bit too long for it's own good?) this is music that I want to go back to and listen again. I honestly think that this is one of the most enjoyable,absorbing and satisfying,British Piano concertos I have heard. Great 'minimalist' 'artwork' on the cover,too! ;D I see that the Fifth Symphony was issued with a similar design. It makes the 'designers' of those old Aries LP sleeves look like 'Hipgnosis'!.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipgnosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipgnosis)
Very astute analysis John with which I totally agree. The Third Piano Concerto does go on a bit but I love the haunting and ominous slow movement and the catchy theme in the finale stays with me. I'm so pleased that I saw him conduct Symphony 11 which is the other Khachaturian-sounding work in my opinion.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 11, 2016, 11:37:30 AM
After reading this thread, I have put symphonies 4, 7, 12 (and 1, which is paired with 2) in my shopping cart.
All great choices Paul. I was listening to Symphony 4 today - it has a wonderful 'triumph against the odds ending'.
Let us know what you think.  :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 11, 2016, 02:11:09 PM
Very astute analysis John with which I totally agree. The Third Piano Concerto does go on a bit but I love the haunting and ominous slow movement and the catchy theme in the finale stays with me. I'm so pleased that I saw him conduct Symphony 11 which is the other Khachaturian-sounding work in my opinion.
Indeed! But,for a work that "does go on a bit" I did have an overwhelming urge to put it on again,so,imho,Lloyd must have done something right! More wheat than chaff,I think. I loved it;and like the Khatchaturian,there's something "fun" about it! It's the all out bravura of the writing;and the slow movement really is haunting. Also,because my copy was a musicassette,I had a side break. Time for a cup of coffee before the 17' 33" "Vivace" Finale! Maybe,having to turn over to Side 2 was actually a good idea sometimes! ??? ;D

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 11, 2016, 09:13:09 PM
Indeed! But,for a work that "does go on a bit" I did have an overwhelming urge to put it on again,so,imho,Lloyd must have done something right! More wheat than chaff,I think. I loved it;and like the Khatchaturian,there's something "fun" about it! It's the all out bravura of the writing;and the slow movement really is haunting. Also,because my copy was a musicassette,I had a side break. Time for a cup of coffee before the 17' 33" "Vivace" Finale! Maybe,having to turn over to Side 2 was actually a good idea sometimes! ??? ;D
Yes, I agree. I had much the same experience with Symphony 4 yesterday. As soon as it was finished I wanted to play it again. What do you think of GL's much shorter Piano Concerto 1 'Scapegoat'?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 12, 2016, 04:16:20 AM
Of course,if it is a bit too long,you have to ask yourself (or the man in the mirror?! ;D) why do I want to play this again,so much?!! Maybe it isn't really a bit too long? Or maybe,there are just a few passages of note spinning here and there,but the majority of is good,or has that tingle factor,that gets you up on your metaphorical feet.......if you aren't standing up while listening,of course?!! I think the latter..............in my case,anyway!

Another one that,I suppose,goes on a bit too long perhaps,and apparently bores some people,is Respighi's Sinfonia Drammatica. I love it! All those huge floor shaking,pulverising climaxes,the totally over the top,cinematic splendour of the orchestration and the wonderful tunes,just get me going. I usually end up conducting the orchestra. I feel quite exhilarated at the end of it.

For some strange reason the duration of Lloyd's third Piano concerto has brought to mind another 'block buster' for piano and orchestra. Villa Lobos' Choros No 11. No,I don't think there are any similarities in terms of sound or atmosphere;it's just the sheer scale of the Choros 11 and the fact that this is a work that,like Lloyd's third,possibly goes on a bit?! Again,like Lloyd's third,if it does go on a bit,why do I feel so good after listening to it?! I haven't been too impressed by some of VL's larger scale works,but the Choros No 11 is an exception. In fact,I think it is absolutely amazing,and in terms of the sheer audacity,scale,teeming invention and complexity of the orchestration,truly mind boggling!!

One last thought;and not entirely serious,I might add. (Yes,I think George Lloyd should have used one!! >:( ;D) With all this talk of comparisons between Lloyd and Khatchaturian,it struck me that probably the only thing really missing from Lloyd's third Piano concerto is a Flexatone! ??? ;D

Apologies,I nearly forgot. No,I'm afraid I haven't heard the 'Scapegoat'.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 12, 2016, 08:48:41 AM
Of course,if it is a bit too long,you have to ask yourself (or the man in the mirror?! ;D) why do I want to play this again,so much?!! Maybe it isn't really a bit too long? Or maybe,there are just a few passages of note spinning here and there,but the majority of is good,or has that tingle factor,that gets you up on your metaphorical feet.......if you aren't standing up while listening,of course?!! I think the latter..............in my case,anyway!

Another one that,I suppose,goes on a bit too long perhaps,and apparently bores some people,is Respighi's Sinfonia Drammatica. I love it! All those huge floor shaking,pulverising climaxes,the totally over the top,cinematic splendour of the orchestration and the wonderful tunes,just get me going. I usually end up conducting the orchestra. I feel quite exhilarated at the end of it.

For some strange reason the duration of Lloyd's third Piano concerto has brought to mind another 'block buster' for piano and orchestra. Villa Lobos' Choros No 11. No,I don't think there are any similarities in terms of sound or atmosphere;it's just the sheer scale of the Choros 11 and the fact that this is a work that,like Lloyd's third,possibly goes on a bit?! Again,like Lloyd's third,if it does go on a bit,why do I feel so good after listening to it?! I haven't been too impressed by some of VL's larger scale works,but the Choros No 11 is an exception. In fact,I think it is absolutely amazing,and in terms of the sheer audacity,scale,teeming invention and complexity of the orchestration,truly mind boggling!!

One last thought;and not entirely serious,I might add. (Yes,I think George Lloyd should have used one!! >:( ;D) With all this talk of comparisons between Lloyd and Khatchaturian,it struck me that probably the only thing really missing from Lloyd's third Piano concerto is a Flexatone! ??? ;D

Apologies,I nearly forgot. No,I'm afraid I haven't heard the 'Scapegoat'.
I've bought several CDs of music by Villa Lobos and apart from one poetic passage in Symphony 4 have been always disappointed (like with the music of Christopher Gunning or York Bowen or Nicholas Maw). Having said that I think I enjoyed one of the Choros pieces conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas. I must get Choros 11 however as two other people have also recommended it to me recently. I've always liked Respighi, notwithstanding his liking for Fascism but the Sinfonia Drammatica has always passed me by and I don't recall anything memorable about it - I would say much the same about the 'Alpine Symphony' by Richard Strauss (or almost all his other music for that matter). However, I love the cinematic 'Church Windows', Metamorphoseon and the Botticelli Pictures by Respighi and the Concerto Gregoriano (which when I first heard on the radio, assumed was by Gerald Finzi  ::)).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 12, 2016, 09:49:51 AM
Interesting! I feel the same way about 'Church Windows' as you do about the Sinfonia Drammatica. Having said that,I remember looking through posts here and discovering to my dismay that fans of the Sinfonia Drammatica are few and far between even amongst admirers of Respighi. I even like his Concerto in modo misolidio,but not as much. I also think that Pizzetti's Canti della Stagione Alta is even better;and no one seems to like that!  :( ;D However,even I'll admit that his Metamorphoseon is vastly superior to the Symphony. It's a real 'sleeper' and deserves allot more exposure than it gets.
As to Villa Lobos. I remain unimpressed by virtually everything I have heard to date. They sound so exciting on paper and in reviews,but oh,dear! :( The tenth symphony was a particularly big disappointment! Choros No 11 is the one piece of music that has impressed me. I have the Ondine recording. Anyway,I should be discussing this in another column,shouldn't I?!!
In brief,then ;D..........I like Richard Strauss' operas;but only the quieter ones. Well,quiet for Richard Strauss! I like Also Sprach Zarathustra now and again,for some reason;but the others less so!! Khatchaturian gets accused of bombast;but his Piano concerto is a soothing balm in comparison. Korngold gets allot of flak in some quarters,but I actually find his orchestration far more refined and tasteful;and the textures are far more interesting. On the other hand,Richard Strauss' Wind Concertos are rather nice. I have the EMI Kempe cd and I was pleasantly surprised.
As to York Bowen!! ::) Well,each to his own,I say;although,imho,if you want to discover a once forgotten English pianist composer,from what I've listened to so far,Roger Sacheverell Coke is far more interesting.
Which brings me back to George Lloyd,who knows how to pull out all the stops with all the brass and percussion,when he really needs to,but balances this with a poetic sensibility and some genuinely moving,heartfelt music. In fact,I'm going to take advantage of that £3.50 credit I got,while I was offline,and send off Ye Olde cheque for that Lyrita set of No's 4,5 & 8 tomorrow! (The chaps got Lyrita on Special offer!)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 12, 2016, 08:50:25 PM
Interesting! I feel the same way about 'Church Windows' as you do about the Sinfonia Drammatica. Having said that,I remember looking through posts here and discovering to my dismay that fans of the Sinfonia Drammatica are few and far between even amongst admirers of Respighi. I even like his Concerto in modo misolidio,but not as much. I also think that Pizzetti's Canti della Stagione Alta is even better;and no one seems to like that!  :( ;D However,even I'll admit that his Metamorphoseon is vastly superior to the Symphony. It's a real 'sleeper' and deserves allot more exposure than it gets.
As to Villa Lobos. I remain unimpressed by virtually everything I have heard to date. They sound so exciting on paper and in reviews,but oh,dear! :( The tenth symphony was a particularly big disappointment! Choros No 11 is the one piece of music that has impressed me. I have the Ondine recording. Anyway,I should be discussing this in another column,shouldn't I?!!
In brief,then ;D..........I like Richard Strauss' operas;but only the quieter ones. Well,quiet for Richard Strauss! I like Also Sprach Zarathustra now and again,for some reason;but the others less so!! Khatchaturian gets accused of bombast;but his Piano concerto is a soothing balm in comparison. Korngold gets allot of flak in some quarters,but I actually find his orchestration far more refined and tasteful;and the textures are far more interesting. On the other hand,Richard Strauss' Wind Concertos are rather nice. I have the EMI Kempe cd and I was pleasantly surprised.
As to York Bowen!! ::) Well,each to his own,I say;although,imho,if you want to discover a once forgotten English pianist composer,from what I've listened to so far,Roger Sacheverell Coke is far more interesting.
Which brings me back to George Lloyd,who knows how to pull out all the stops with all the brass and percussion,when he really needs to,but balances this with a poetic sensibility and some genuinely moving,heartfelt music. In fact,I'm going to take advantage of that £3.50 credit I got,while I was offline,and send off Ye Olde cheque for that Lyrita set of No's 4,5 & 8 tomorrow! (The chaps got Lyrita on Special offer!)
I must try Sinfonia Drammatica again as I like much Respighi. You'll really like the Lyrita George Lloyd set. The performance of No.8 was the first on LP and generated a lot of excitement in the pages of Gramophone. Also, I think that the performances are even better than the ones by the composer - good as they are. Must look out for Roger Sacherverell Cooke (which reminds me of a rather precious/effete joke: Question: 'Is there more than one Sitwell?', Answer: 'Yes, there are sacheverell' ::) 8)).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 13, 2016, 06:25:06 AM
Play it full blast.Perhaps your neighbour will like it?!! ??? ;D Lyrita cd,duly ordered. Strange how sending a cheque for a cd set through the post seems so wierd. I actually,should get it cheaper than on Amazon or ebay!! I also bought a s/h copy of the Eleventh on cd for £3.79,post free,on ebay (not MusicMagpie,so we'll see!). Having a bit of a dispute with a German seller at the moment,who will be another one on my 'don't buy from list'!
I actually didn't get the Sacheverell-Coke joke at first. Then it got me. You have to say it quickly (in your mind)......perhaps with a posh accent and a glass of wine! Funny! ;D Imho his music is much better than York Bowen's. It's darker hewn and has more fibre! Hyperion are supposed to be recording a cd of his Piano concertos,or what exists of them. It will be interesting to see how his orchestral music compares to his instrumental output. His life would make a great movie in itself!
As to the Downes/Lloyd cd set. I have seen allot of enthusiastic reviews now;most of which seem to think that Downes has the edge. Yes,George Lloyd was quite a 'story' back in the 80s,I think? As a story,his brief early success,descent into obscurity and subsequent re-discovery almost rivalled that of a certain Havergal Brian,for a short while! No Guiness Book of Record breaking sized symphony,though!!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 13, 2016, 06:55:10 AM
Play it full blast.Perhaps your neighbour will like it?!! ??? ;D Lyrita cd,duly ordered. Strange how sending a cheque for a cd set through the post seems so wierd. I actually,should get it cheaper than on Amazon or ebay!! I also bought a s/h copy of the Eleventh on cd for £3.79,post free,on ebay (not MusicMagpie,so we'll see!). Having a bit of a dispute with a German seller at the moment,who will be another one on my 'don't buy from list'!
I actually didn't get the Sacheverell-Coke joke at first. Then it got me. You have to say it quickly (in your mind)......perhaps with a posh accent and a glass of wine! Funny! ;D Imho his music is much better than York Bowen's. It's darker hewn and has more fibre! Hyperion are supposed to be recording a cd of his Piano concertos,or what exists of them. It will be interesting to see how his orchestral music compares to his instrumental output. His life would make a great movie in itself!
As to the Downes/Lloyd cd set. I have seen allot of enthusiastic reviews now;most of which seem to think that Downes has the edge. Yes,George Lloyd was quite a 'story' back in the 80s,I think? As a story,his brief early success,descent into obscurity and subsequent re-discovery almost rivalled that of a certain Havergal Brian,for a short while! No Guiness Book of Record breaking sized symphony,though!!
Has Zoverstocks transformed into Musical Magpie?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 13, 2016, 07:30:41 AM
Zoverstocks and estocks are now,officially,MusicMagpie! I remember a while back,when Zoverstocks were still fairly newish on Amazon,that I was never going to buy from them again,as I had to return so many cds. Although to be fair,I always got a polite email and a refund. They never made me wait. The last straw was a cd that looked like Torville and Dean had been skating on it! I decided to buy my cds from estocks,convinced that they were far superior,and feeling quite smug about my move! Of course,a van load,or so,of cds later,I realised they were the same firm!! Doh!! They'd got me!! :-[ ;D Again,to be fair,I've never had any problems with getting refunds for cds,or dvds, or waiting for emails.I've had some amazing bargains.......and for my wallets sake,I sometimes wish they weren't so cheap! :( ;D

I ordered the Lloyd cd set via a cheque sent by 'snail mail',as some people call it now! Classics Direct;which I used when my last pc went down,for good!! I still have some credit with them;and the Lyrita Lloyd set is on offer! Rob Barnett (I think) compares his Symphonies 4-8 with the those of Bax and Alwyn. I've never really got anywhere much with Alwyn,to date;but my shelves are groaning with Bax cds (weight wise!). How do you think George Lloyd measures up to the symphonies of these composers? Rob Barnett's comparison is interesting;but as a cycle,why not?!! Maybe,Bax has a visionary quality which runs deeper,and more of his own voice? But surely,if I listen enough,so has Lloyd?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 13, 2016, 07:50:07 AM
Zoverstocks and estocks are now,officially,MusicMagpie! I remember a while back,when Zoverstocks were still fairly newish on Amazon,that I was never going to buy from them again,as I had to return so many cds. Although to be fair,I always got a polite email and a refund. They never made me wait. The last straw was a cd that looked like Torville and Dean had been skating on it! I decided to buy my cds from estocks,convinced that they were far superior,and feeling quite smug about my move! Of course,a van load,or so,of cds later,I realised they were the same firm!! Doh!! They'd got me!! :-[ ;D Again,to be fair,I've never had any problems with getting refunds for cds,or dvds, or waiting for emails.I've had some amazing bargains.......and for my wallets sake,I sometimes wish they weren't so cheap! :( ;D

I ordered the Lloyd cd set via a cheque sent by 'snail mail',as some people call it now! Classics Direct;which I used when my last pc went down,for good!! I still have some credit with them;and the Lyrita Lloyd set is on offer! Rob Barnett (I think) compares his Symphonies 4-8 with the those of Bax and Alwyn. I've never really got anywhere much with Alwyn,to date;but my shelves are groaning with Bax cds (weight wise!). How do you think George Lloyd measures up to the symphonies of these composers? Rob Barnett's comparison is interesting;but as a cycle,why not?!! Maybe,Bax has a visionary quality which runs deeper,and more of his own voice? But surely,if I listen enough,so has Lloyd?
Thank you for that information John. I wondered why Zoverstocks had disappeared and MusicMagpie was everywhere. Yes, I know what you mean - today I ordered a Klemperer Bruckner Symphony 4 and a Rattle Mahler Symphony 10 for 0.19p each + postage. My wife has now confronted me about the 'obscene' amount of CDs in our study and about my 'affair' with my CD collection, suggesting that I need professional help, which is probably true (have just ordered a Klemperer Bruckner symphs 4-9 boxed set  >:D) now, back to Lloyd. I think that Bax's music is more 'Celtic' and 'Legendary' if you know what I mean. I love all the Bax symphonies but only some of those by Lloyd. However, I have the highest respect for Lloyd's symphonies 4 and 7 in particular and also like nos 8,11 and 12 and, of course the PC No.3 and the 'Scapegoat' concerto. If anything I think that Alwyn is closer to Bax than Lloyd. I do like all the Alwyn symphonies and consider him to be a fine composer. There is a great Barbirolli Alwyn CD on Dutton with symphony 1 and 2. No.1 is like film music but I find it exciting and moving. No.2 was Alwyn's own favourite and probably the greatest of them. His film score to 'Odd Man Out' is magnificent. He sent me a kindly response to my fan mail.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 13, 2016, 09:16:03 AM
The irony of course is that George Lloyd is Cornish,so unlike Bax,he is actually the Celt;although,looking at his Wikipedia entry,his father was American;and I don't know how far back his roots actually go back there? I will try and read more about him. Whether there is anything specifically Celtic about his music,I don't know? I'm not familiar enough with his music yet,of course. My father is Welsh speaking and I was born and brought up in Wales,but I can't say I find anything specifically Welsh sounding about Welsh composers beyond their source of inspiration and atmosphere. Well,not in the way VW or Elgar sound English,or Ravel sounds French,for example. Allot of the music of Daniel Jones and Grace Williams does make me think of Welsh things,of course. Daniel Jones evokes Welsh Seascapes and the rugged landscapes of parts of Wales. Seascapes,particularly,unsurprisingly. But I don't find anything specifically Welsh about the music itself! Although,there is a 'Welshness' to their music,somewhere. William Mathias is another example. It just doesn't sound as obviously of it's country of origin as does the music of VW,Elgar or even Holst.
Strangely enough,even though Bax wasn't inspired by Wales,I always find his music evokes very powerful images in my mind of Welsh land and seascapes;also,unsurprisingly,Welsh legends and Folklore. Even more so than any Welsh composer I know of!!!! In fact,if I didn't know better,I could actually believe that some of his music,like,for example,the First and Second Symphonies was actually inspired by Welsh legends! But when you think about it;the two countries (Wales and Ireland) aren't exactly far from each other;and their histories are entwined. I often think that in terms of his Celtic affinities,inspiration and the images his music evokes,Bax could almost be a Welsh composer. If you enjoy Welsh foklore and mythology,Daniel Jones and Grace Williams are more abstract in their approach;even thoughthey use Welsh titles and names. The orchestral music from Holbrooke's Cauldron of Annwn cycle also evokes Welsh landscapes and myths (also,unsurprisingly!) which is probably why I actually quite like some of it. Of course,unlike Bax,he actually spent allot of time there, That said,there is nothing specifically Welsh about the music itself.
I wonder how much Celtic,or Cornish imagery or atmosphere I will find in Lloyd? Will his music evoke any imagey from my native land. I am not expecting it to sound specifically Celtic or Cornish,though?!!

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 13, 2016, 11:12:27 AM
Got to wait for that cheque to clear first,though! ::) ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 13, 2016, 10:20:01 PM
Well, I've discovered another excellent Cornish composer called Judith Bailey (born 1941) whose 'Havas - a period of Summer' is a very enjoyable, memorable, lyrical and approachable work, which I can't stop playing. And, guess what, the CD features music by George Lloyd too, his 'The Serf - Prelude to Act II', 'In Memoriam' which is very good, 'Le Pont Du Gard' and 'HMS Trinidad March' (this was the ship in which George Lloyd was blown up on in the Second World War).
I have been in contact with Judith Bailey who is ever so nice and sent me a CD of her chamber music which features a very poignant work called 'Light' written after the death of her partner - I find it very moving:


Hoddinott's 'Welsh Dances' sound very Welsh to me  8)


I like the music of Grace Williams (especially Symphony 2 on Lyrita - influenced by her teacher Vaughan Williams) and Daniel Jones and William Matthias; especially his Symphony 1.

I'm going to Cornwall on holiday in a few weeks and must visit the beautiful 'Gurnard's Head' where GL is pictured in a photo by his wife on the front cover of Symphony 8.

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 13, 2016, 11:11:22 PM
Oh,don't tell me that! Temptation,remember?! I WILL make a note of it,though,for future reference,as they say. It sounds very interesting.Also,judging by the two cds of theirs I own,Em are a beautifully produced label. The booklet with my Em cd of Violin & Viola Sonatas by Bantock,Holbrooke & Coke,is a model of it's kind.There is a wonderful photo of the trio standing below Harlech Castle (c1919) near the front.Bantock in a white suit and Scott and Holbrooke looking very dandy. The latter with a cane,trying to look the aloof artist. He'd be frothing at the mouth at the level of interest here!! Sacheverell Coke,nearing the end of his life,sitting in the concert hall that his mum has built for him in their decaying pile,in front of his grand piano,with one of the cigarettes that eventually killed him. There is a better reproduction and some more interesting photos of the Coke's in the Somm cd booklet,though!
The nearest I get to Cornwall is Radio Cornwall,which I sometimes listen on MW,particularly the phone in,during the day. Being a fan of retro technology I listen on MW. Cuts to the BBC budget may put an end to that before long as the ageing AM transmitters are considered expensive to replace. I also have some books on Cornish folklore. They're our Celtic brethren here,of course. Although,they haven't got into devolution yet! ??? ;D
I like Daniel Jones,Grace Williams and William Mathias. I agree that his First symphony is the best of the bunch,but I rather like the Second;and the third is pretty good. The first really packs a punch though. It's full of energy and not a note too long. I notice there is an earlier recording coupled with Joubert (I think?). How does this compare with the Nimbus recording. This earlier recording is the one that would have been in the libraries,on Lp,I presume?!
I'm not so keen on Hoddinott,so far. Not that I dislike his music. It just doesn't stay with me and there's less warmth. David Wynne was another prolific Welsh composer. His music gets some praise on the internet somewhere and I was curious to hear him. Unfortunately the few examples I have heard via the AMF forum have disappointed me,so far,anyway! Lyrita are supposed to be releasing a recording of a recent performance of Grace Williams' Missa Cambrensis before long. About time,too!
Great photo of Lloyd on the cover of that cd of his eighth. My Lyrita set has the Miss Marples shot on the front,of course!! ;D Were the Downes recordings ever released individually,on cd? Releases of the Lloyd recordings are so confusing. There seem to be multiple recordings on different labels of the same recordings!!!
Incidentally,the German seller I was moaning about has unexpectedly and very graciously refunded me. I don't have to return it! I won't name them;but their name sounds like a certain extinct,flightless bird (Hope that bodes well!). Just saying,because I like to be fair! They need to spruce up their linguistics dept if they want to sell overseas,though! It might help!! 
What I dread is the Seller who takes offence,ie "How dare you suggest that I would sell anything that would be in anything less than in Mint condition! Look at my ratings!" The worst one ever;a full page rant and a demand to "return the packaging for my inspection"!! >:( ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 13, 2016, 11:38:54 PM
I don't think that the Lyritas, with Margaret Rutherford on the front, were ever issued individually on CD, although, of course, I have them individually on LP. I think that you'll have to get the Judith Bailey/George Lloyd CD - just sell your house or car to raise the funds. I agree that the EM CDs are beautifully produced and have several of them including Robin Milford's eloquent Violin Concerto. I recently bought a Dutton CD with his 'Darkling Thrush' (after Thomas Hardy). I first heard the poem on 'Thought for the Day' on BBC Radio 4, on my drive to work, when Richard Harries, the then Bishop of Oxford, read it out and I found it very moving. The Milford work is very touching. He had a tragic life as his only child was run over and killed as a little boy and Milford ultimately committed suicide. I think there is an unpublished symphony which I would love to hear. On that cheerful note I need to go to work. Oh, yes, I like that Joubert Symphony too. Oddly Lyrita issued it as a CD 'single' and then coupled with the Mathias - I have both.  ::)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 14, 2016, 02:02:45 AM
 ;D I'll definitely put it on my list for future reference. I have just seen the Amazon reviews. One of them by someone you know. Well,I hope so?!! ;D Cinematic,eh?!! Very tempting! And so is George Lloyd's Eleventh,which I am listening to on headphones now. This is a fun listen. A bit of Shostakovich,to my ears in the opening pages,but then the familiar Lloyd fingerprints appeared. Exciting orchestration. I'm enjoying this. The Seventh Symphony has more arresting,memorable ideas,but the orchestration here is splendid,though. It 'tickles' the ears. I like what I'm hearing.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 14, 2016, 02:43:01 AM
Enjoyable as this,and viscerally exciting in places,that the Eleventh Symphony,undoubtedly, is;there's no doubt in my mind,that it lacks the truly memorable ideas and haunting atmosphere of the Seventh. I will need to listen to this more,of course,before I really make up my mind. But just think of the way the Seventh opens and ends;it's magical;it stays with you. Some great stuff here though. The drum beats in the finale,for example. Lloyd's orchestration is very spectacular in places. I will certainly want to listen to this again at some point.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 14, 2016, 02:52:50 AM
;D I'll definitely put it on my list for future reference. I have just seen the Amazon reviews. One of them by someone you know. Well,I hope so?!! ;D Cinematic,eh?!! Very tempting! And so is George Lloyd's Eleventh,which I am listening to on headphones now. This is a fun listen. A bit of Shostakovich,to my ears in the opening pages,but then the familiar Lloyd fingerprints appeared. Exciting orchestration. I'm enjoying this. The Seventh Symphony has more arresting,memorable ideas,but the orchestration here is splendid,though. It 'tickles' the ears. I like what I'm hearing.
Writing from work now. If I'm sacked it will be your fault  :D
No.11 is great and is the one I have seen performed live, conducted by the Great Man itself. It is a bit like Shostakovich.
Yes, that Amazon review of 'Havas' etc is very profound and insightful  8). Judith Bailey also sent a copy to me without realising I already had it! Unfortunately I've already given it away to a music-loving friend otherwise I'd have been happy to send it to you as a freebie.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 14, 2016, 02:55:18 AM
Enjoyable as this,and viscerally exciting in places,that the Eleventh Symphony,undoubtedly, is;there's no doubt in my mind,that it lacks the truly memorable ideas and haunting atmosphere of the Seventh. I will need to listen to this more,of course,before I really make up my mind. But just think of the way the Seventh opens and ends;it's magical;it stays with you. Some great stuff here though. The drum beats in the finale,for example. Lloyd's orchestration is very spectacular in places. I will certainly want to listen to this again at some point.
My brother came with me to the concert featuring Symphony 11 and did not find it at all memorable. I especially like the final movement, which I think are often the best (Symphony 4 comes to mind also).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 14, 2016, 04:21:29 AM
There's allot of fabulous orchestration here. I have no complaints about what I'm listening to here! ;D I hate comparisons,anyway! I like the epic scale of it,and the sound engineering is truly spectacular. Allot of the music does bring to mind cinematic blockbusters;but not Luke Skywalker,specifically,this time! The quieter moments are even more spectacular in their own way. There's even a sequence in the first movement that evokes VW's Sinfonia Antartica,or more appropriately,those Arctic Convoys,perhaps? I think this one will grow on me.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 14, 2016, 04:43:32 AM
There's allot of fabulous orchestration here. I have no complaints about what I'm listening to here! ;D I hate comparisons,anyway! I like the epic scale of it,and the sound engineering is truly spectacular. Allot of the music does bring to mind cinematic blockbusters;but not Luke Skywalker,specifically,this time! The quieter moments are even more spectacular in their own way. There's even a sequence in the first movement that evokes VW's Sinfonia Antartica,or more appropriately,those Arctic Convoys,perhaps? I think this one will grow on me.
I can see that I will have to listen to Symphony 11 tonight.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 14, 2016, 10:03:15 PM
Just listening to Symphony 8 (Albany/Lloyd) and had forgotten just how good it is. If anything it is better or at least as good as the Lyrita recording. The photo on the front is of the composer at Zennor Head, Cornwall and not Gurnard's Head as I said above. I remember that when interest in Lloyd revived in the 1980s a critic described his music as being like a cross between (film composer) 'Ron Goodwin and Sibelius' I see what he means but I think that this is to do Lloyd an injustice.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 14, 2016, 10:58:07 PM
Yes,I can see what that critic meant about Ron Goodwin. It is very 'filmic' at times (often!) but in a good way. Anyway,Ron Goodwin didn't compose symphonies as far as I know. I think he's the 633 Squadron bloke,isn't he? I actually,quite like that one! Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba-Dee-Daaa!! ;D I haven't seen the film! Of course,it's supposed to be disparaging,I suppose. But the Seventh and Eleventh are packed with genuinely imaginative ideas and superb orchestration;and it's not just empty bombast,either. I listened to the Eleventh Symphony yesterday (as you know! ;D) and there was allot of powerful writing there,allot of emotion. No,it's not Mahler,but it's not shallow technicolor,either. One of the things I like about the music I've heard so far is Lloyd is not afraid of letting us know what he's feeling. He's less unbuttoned in this sense,less stiff upper lip than allot of British composers.
It also struck me that if you enjoy the colourful,cinematic blockbusters of the likes of Korgold and Dohnanyi,Lloyd is going to be high on your list;and possibly the closest to a British equivalent. In brief.....great stuff!! ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 14, 2016, 11:05:31 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/633_Squadron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/633_Squadron)

Yes,that figures! Great stuff!! ??? ;D

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/518OkpWFnYL_zps3qkvmn6f.jpg)

DAKA-DAKA-DAKA! Eeeeeee-yooow! (imitates aeroplane)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 15, 2016, 03:16:55 AM
Seriously,I think I'll skip that one!! ::)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 15, 2016, 04:17:49 AM
I have that Ron Goodwin CD of course, with my collection of Chandos film music. No one should miss 'Odd Man Out' by William Alwyn, a truly symphonic score featuring a marvellous doomed processional reminiscent of the 'Road to Calvary' from Miklos Rosza's score for 'Ben Hur'. I recall a critic saying that '633 Squadron' featured the greatest horn theme since Mozart. Lloyd's 11th symphony scheduled for later today.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 15, 2016, 04:32:44 AM
I recall a critic saying that '633 Squadron' featured the greatest horn theme since Mozart.

One of my favorite movie themes.

https://www.youtube.com/v/XWXQUhBsUVM

The film itself: unoriginal plot, mediocre acting but spectacular flight scenes, employing actual Mosquitos.


Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 15, 2016, 05:25:05 AM
Seriously,I think I'll skip that one!! ::)
Only because I'd want to buy more! ;D Their Brian Easdale cd has been on my radar for a long time;and the there's the Moby Dick soundtrack you've recommended,more than once!
One film collection I do have is of Bernard Herrmann. It's on Decca Eloquence and includes music from his sc-fi and fantasy scores. I love fifties sci-fi and Journey to the Centre (or Center) as they say,with James Mason is one of my all time favourite movies. I loved it as a kid,and love is a BIG,or BIGG-ISH kid! ::) ;D I did have the Chandos Malcolm Arnold album. I should have kept that one. Whistle down the Wind is a lovely tune,and Bridge on the River Kwai,with Colonel Bogey is foot tapping,toothbrush waving stuff! Another one that sticks in the mind is his use of 'This old man' in the Inn of the Sixth Happiness. I've got the MGM soundtrack to Kiss me Kate somewhere,too. But,that's a little different,of course!
Odd man Out is a very good film. Grim,though!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 15, 2016, 07:22:09 AM
One of my favorite movie themes.

https://www.youtube.com/v/XWXQUhBsUVM

The film itself: unoriginal plot, mediocre acting but spectacular flight scenes, employing actual Mosquitos.


Sarge
I agree and my dad flew in the Mosquitos during the War (Coastal Command navigator).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 15, 2016, 08:45:47 AM
Do you think I should put that Ron Grainger cd on my list?!! :-\ And how does the rest of the cd measure up to the famous tune? I'll have a look at the movie next time it's on. Just to listen to the tune and watch the planes in action. Maybe not the whole way through? I have watched Where Eagles dare,and,indeed,read the book a long,long time ago. So that's Ron Grainger,too!
Hope you're enjoying George Lloyd's Eleventh,now,Vandermolen!

Ron Goodwin!!Where's that Gingko Biloba?!!! ::)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 15, 2016, 08:56:11 AM
Do you think I should put that Ron Grainger cd on my list?!! :-\ And how does the rest of the cd measure up to the famous tune? I'll have a look at the movie next time it's on. Just to listen to the tune and watch the planes in action. Maybe not the whole way through? I have watched Where Eagles dare,and,indeed,read the book a long,long time ago. So that's Ron Grainger,too!
Hope you're enjoying George Lloyd's Eleventh,now,Vandermolen!

Ron Goodwin!!Where's that Gingko Biloba?!!! ::)
Hehe
Well, I like the Battle of Britain music and Where Eagles Dare ('Broadsword calling Danny boy...Broadsword calling Danny boy etc.......)
Of course there was a big hoohaa when Walton's score for Battle of Britain was replaced by the Ron Goodwin score apart from the fine 'Battle in the Air' sequence. So, I'd get the CD along with the Judith Bailey  8). Lloyd's 11th going on now.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 15, 2016, 09:50:28 AM
Symphony 11 is immensely enjoyable. Maybe not the greatest (4,7,12?) but I rate it along with No.8 and 5 (which I have not heard in a long time) as very fine. It is like a film score and reminded me at times of William Alwyn's First Symphony (do you know it?), which I enjoy very much. Id forgotten that it is in five movements. The first of which is rather Khachaturian-like in its percussive effect. The slow movement rises to a powerful climax and the finale has a great stay-in-your-head tune which conveys, to me at least, an affirmative sense of home-coming. Altogether an immensely enjoyable work.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 16, 2016, 07:00:58 AM
Have just listened to Symphony 7 twice. It is a beautiful, eloquent and reflect score which, unusually for Lloyd, ends quietly. It now ranks as my favourite alongside No.4 and is a more dreamy and atmospheric work, as appropriate for its roots in the myth of Proserpine.


Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 16, 2016, 09:59:22 AM
Can't wait to hear No 4!! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 16, 2016, 10:17:49 AM
Can't wait to hear No 4!! :)
Very different to No.7 but in view of Lloyd's personal history (ship he was on sunk in World War Two - decades of neglect) I find it very moving.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 16, 2016, 10:18:13 AM
Can't wait to hear No 4!! :)

It's stunning. 4, 5, 7 and 12 keep rotating, vying for "Best of Lloyd".

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 16, 2016, 10:26:10 AM
It's stunning. 4, 5, 7 and 12 keep rotating, vying for "Best of Lloyd".

Sarge
All great Sarge though ages since I've heard No.5. His ship HMS Trinidad was torpedoed in World War Two and he witnessed many of his friends drown and nearly died himself. Decades later he witnessed the immediate aftermath of bandsman ( he was a bandsman in the army) being blown up in London by the IRA with their horses which brought his whole World War Two experiences back to him. For decades he couldn't compose and developed a market garden business growing carnations (quite successfully I think) with the loving support of his wife. Slowly, he returned to composing. In this context I find Symphony 4 with its echoes of the sea and triumph against the odds incredibly moving.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 17, 2016, 11:05:47 AM
It's stunning. 4, 5, 7 and 12 keep rotating, vying for "Best of Lloyd".

Sarge
You're a fan of No 5,Sarge? I remember it made an impression on me,when I heard it on the radio back in the eighties. I think I recorded it off air on cassette twice. I still have a cassette deck,but the tapes long gone (chewed up). I remember it had some lovely music. I'll have the Downes cds soon,hopefully?!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 17, 2016, 12:26:39 PM
You're a fan of No 5,Sarge?

I am a fan. It's chock full of the things we love about Lloyd: the cinematic splendor, the great and memorable melodies, the brilliant orchestration. The Symphony opens with what sounds like an English film set in a picturesque country village but with a disturbing undercurrent, hinting at dark secrets (a Miss Marple mystery?  :D ). The Corale movement has more Star Wars-like themes, along with a Mahlerian funeral march that also has a hint of Kurt Weil. There's a beautiful bel canto outburst in the Lamento fourth movement and the Symphony has one of his most satisfying endings, a climactic brass and percussion triumph. I think you'll enjoy it.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 17, 2016, 10:10:32 PM
I am a fan. It's chock full of the things we love about Lloyd: the cinematic splendor, the great and memorable melodies, the brilliant orchestration. The Symphony opens with what sounds like an English film set in a picturesque country village but with a disturbing undercurrent, hinting at dark secrets (a Miss Marple mystery?  :D ). The Corale movement has more Star Wars-like themes, along with a Mahlerian funeral march that also has a hint of Kurt Weil. There's a splendid bel canto outburst in the Lamento fourth movement and the Symphony has one of his most satisfying endings, a climactic brass and percussion triumph. I think you'll enjoy it.

Sarge
Right. Must find my copy! Thanks Sarge.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 19, 2016, 12:58:29 AM
I am a fan. It's chock full of the things we love about Lloyd: the cinematic splendor, the great and memorable melodies, the brilliant orchestration. The Symphony opens with what sounds like an English film set in a picturesque country village but with a disturbing undercurrent, hinting at dark secrets (a Miss Marple mystery?  :D ). The Corale movement has more Star Wars-like themes, along with a Mahlerian funeral march that also has a hint of Kurt Weil. There's a beautiful bel canto outburst in the Lamento fourth movement and the Symphony has one of his most satisfying endings, a climactic brass and percussion triumph. I think you'll enjoy it.

Sarge
Star Wars like themes. Right,that does it for me. Although,I hasten to add;I'm not a Star Wars fan! I'M A Fifties Sci-fi Man,in the main. John Williams,at his best though,is fun! I think I even had a cd,or tape,once?
Got any John Williams (the Composer) cds,Vandermolen? (Sarge?). Come on,own up!! ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 19, 2016, 03:51:42 AM
Got any John Williams (the Composer) cds,Vandermolen? (Sarge?). Come on,own up!! ;D

Yeah I have some John Williams in my collection (list copied from my CD data base):

WILLIAMS   SUPERMAN   WILLIAMS/LSO
WILLIAMS   STAR WARS (ORIGINAL 2-CD BOX) WILLIAMS/LSO
WILLIAMS   STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE  (SPECIAL EDITION) WILLIAMS/LSO
WILLIAMS   THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK   GERHARDT/NATIONAL PO
WILLIAMS   THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (SPECIAL EDITION) WILLIAMS/LSO
WILLIAMS   RETURN OF THE JEDI   WILLIAMS/LSO
WILLIAMS   STAR WARS: EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE WILLIAMS/LSO
WILLIAMS   STAR WARS: EPISODE II: ATTACK OF THE CLONES WILLIAMS/LSO
WILLIAMS   JURASSIC PARK
WILLIAMS   HARRY POTTER AND THE PHILOSOPHER'S STONE   
WILLIAMS   HOOK   
WILLIAMS   THE REIVERS WILLIAMS/BOSTON POPS
WILLIAMS   BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY SUITE WILLIAMS/BOSTON POPS
WILLIAMS   THE COWBOYS OVERTURE WILLIAMS/BOSTON POPS
WILLIAMS   LIBERTY FANFARE KUNZEL/CINCINNATI POPS
WILLIAMS   TUBA CONCERTO    SNELL/FOUNDATION PHILHARMONIC O


Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 19, 2016, 10:06:51 AM
Just a couple,Sarge! ;D I can see why you like George Lloyd! As i said,I'm not a Star Wars fan,but I think I'd have to be a curmudgeon not to enjoy John Williams at his best.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 19, 2016, 10:43:26 AM
Star Wars like themes. Right,that does it for me. Although,I hasten to add;I'm not a Star Wars fan! I'M A Fifties Sci-fi Man,in the main. John Williams,at his best though,is fun! I think I even had a cd,or tape,once?
Got any John Williams (the Composer) cds,Vandermolen? (Sarge?). Come on,own up!! ;D
I have a number of Star Wars compilations and soundtracks including old and new versions of 'Return of the Jedi' (my favourite) also Schindler's List and War Horse - not so keen on the latter although opening is like Vaughan Williams. LP of ET soundtrack I think. Jaws soundtrack. The Reivers, Born of the Fourth of July (With Copland's 'Red Pony'). Saving Private Ryan, Seven Years in Tibet. I especially like Saving Private Ryan, apart from 'Hymn to the Fallen' which, to me, sounds corny. Bernard Herrmann was better at this kind of thing. Satisfied?  8)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 19, 2016, 12:20:52 PM
While listening to George Lloyd's Eleventh again today,I thought i recognised a brief tune. It didn't last long;but I may be mistaken (shurely some mistake ed,as Private Eye would say) but I was convinced it was Tara's theme from Gone with the Wind. A film which,incidentally (and apologies here to anyone who loves it) bores me stiff!! The resemblance is only brief,,however,and I don't think the George Lloyd 'estate' have anything to worry about. At least not any more than John Williams,who according to one critic at the time of the Proms premiere,cribbed his famous theme motif from the opening of Havergal Brian's Gothic!! ???
I'm also pleased to note that at not one point during George Lloyd's Eleventh did I detect anything that remotely resembled the theme from Neighbours!!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on June 19, 2016, 08:51:52 PM
While listening to George Lloyd's Eleventh again today,I thought i recognised a brief tune. It didn't last long;but I may be mistaken (shurely some mistake ed,as Private Eye would say) but I was convinced it was Tara's theme from Gone with the Wind. A film which,incidentally (and apologies here to anyone who loves it) bores me stiff!! The resemblance is only brief,,however,and I don't think the George Lloyd 'estate' have anything to worry about. At least not any more than John Williams,who according to one critic at the time of the Proms premiere,cribbed his famous theme motif from the opening of Havergal Brian's Gothic!! ???
I'm also pleased to note that at not one point during George Lloyd's Eleventh did I detect anything that remotely resembled the theme from Neighbours!!
Oddly enough I'm listening to George Lloyd's 11th Symphony now. There is also an interesting thematic link between Prokofiev's 'March' from 'Love of Three Oranges' and 'March of the Ewoks' or is it 'Parade of the Ewoks' from 'Star Wars - Return of the Jedi'.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on June 22, 2016, 08:52:38 AM
I thought you had the Albany Fifth,Vandermolen (Must read back through your posts!)?!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on July 02, 2016, 12:23:36 AM
The 3cd Lyrita set of Lloyd's Symphonies 4,5 & 8 has just arrived. The old syle fat box jewel case,with Margaret Rutherford on the front is still in shrinkwrap as I type this post. It took a bit longer,because Ye Olde Cheque had to clear!! 8)

Now to remove the plastic.......fingers tremblings with anticipation and,erm.....the after effects of lager!!! ::)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2016, 06:05:34 AM
The 3cd Lyrita set of Lloyd's Symphonies 4,5 & 8 has just arrived. The old syle fat box jewel case,with Margaret Rutherford on the front is still in shrinkwrap as I type this post. It took a bit longer,because Ye Olde Cheque had to clear!! 8)

Now to remove the plastic.......fingers tremblings with anticipation and,erm.....the after effects of lager!!! ::)

Don't snap the plastic hinges off in your excitement.  8)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2016, 06:07:11 AM
I thought you had the Albany Fifth,Vandermolen (Must read back through your posts!)?!
I do have it now but think that I only had the Lyrita before - but who knows?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 08, 2016, 09:42:46 AM
I wish I'd had this Lp when I was a youngster! Listening to Vaughan Williams meets the Empire Strikes Back now,on a a very good example of the once popular musicassette,which I bought secondhand. I'll have to turn over for the finale! :( ;D (The machine can play the other side,but cassette decks not being plentiful these days,I don't want to stress the tape heads!)

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/s-l1600_zps6qf8g2ma.jpg)

Regarding the box set of Symphonies 4,5 & 8. I haven't posted about this yet;but it doesn't mean I wasn't too excited by what I heard. In fact,there were two reasons why I didn't. One was because these symphonies aren't quite as easy a listen as you might expect. They are quite complex works and written on a large scale,so it actually takes a while to get a grasp of them. Repeated listenings help! This,a bit of a surprise when you think of Lloyd's popular image as a purveyor of easily accessible tonal music. Okay,we're not talking Mahler or Shostakovich here;but they do take a bit of time to get your head around. Another reason why these symphonies are such a satisfying listen,besides the fact that they are full of lovely melodies and often very exciting orchestration. Shallow,superficial imho,they are not. In fact I was very impressed by everything I heard. As to the second reason I didn't post earlier. Just things to do and other newer cds to plough through......!!!

More to follow!! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 08, 2016, 10:11:15 AM
Lloyd's 4th and 7th are my favourites but I have a soft spot for No.11 which is the only one I've seen live and also Piano concertos 1 'Scapegoat' and 3. The Symphony 11 and PC.3 remind me of Khachaturian.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on December 08, 2016, 10:47:23 AM
No's 4,5 & 7 are my favourites........but I think I like No 11 as well! I think the Fifth was the first I ever heard.......on Radio 3,in the 80's. I taped it twice. No 7 was the first one I ever owned on cd. Unfortunately,I later sold it!! ::) I now have it on cassette. I quite like old analogue gadgets,and now & again I have a musicassette session. I listened to Handel's Solomon earlier!! Lloyd's Piano Concerto no 3 is on now. Yes,if you like Khatchaturian you're going to need to hear Lloyd's Eleventh Symphony and Piano Concerto No 3. Not that there's anything Armenian about them;but they have that same technicolor feel about them. Also,they both have wonderful slow movements;although I think the Khatchaturian is the finer of the two. But enough of comparisons. They should be enjoyed on their own terms!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 08, 2016, 01:36:04 PM
No's 4,5 & 7 are my favourites........but I think I like No 11 as well! I think the Fifth was the first I ever heard.......on Radio 3,in the 80's. I taped it twice. No 7 was the first one I ever owned on cd. Unfortunately,I later sold it!! ::) I now have it on cassette. I quite like old analogue gadgets,and now & again I have a musicassette session. I listened to Handel's Solomon earlier!! Lloyd's Piano Concerto no 3 is on now. Yes,if you like Khatchaturian you're going to need to hear Lloyd's Eleventh Symphony and Piano Concerto No 3. Not that there's anything Armenian about them;but they have that same technicolor feel about them. Also,they both have wonderful slow movements;although I think the Khatchaturian is the finer of the two. But enough of comparisons. They should be enjoyed on their own terms!
Totally agree with you. The PC 3 has a powerful slow movement which according to GL represents the fear of the 'knock on the door' in the night felt by those living in occupied countries in World War Two. Thematically it reminds me of the score to the original black and white film of 'The Diary of Anne Frank' composed, I think, by Alfred Newman.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 22, 2017, 05:00:21 PM
I found the symphonies good but not excellent. The most satisfactory ones for my were the 3rd (great slow movement), 4th (glowing ending), 8th, 11st and 12nd (the 7th did not seem so good  :( , I did not want to express that). I think that the No. 12 is a fitting conclusion for this cycle of symphonies.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2017, 11:58:48 AM
New release which I've ordered for the poetic Symphony 7. Together with No.4 it is my favourite symphony by George Lloyd:

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 12:31:26 PM
And you get the two for your money! I have the original Conifer musicassette of the Seventh,which I sometimes play on my cassette deck (not much point putting it on my cd player! ::)). I actually,prefer the Fifth to the Fourth symphony. The Seventh is my favourite. The Fifth was the first George Lloyd symphony I ever heard.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2017, 12:45:06 PM
And you get the two for your money! I have the original Conifer musicassette of the Seventh,which I sometimes play on my cassette deck (not much point putting it on my cd player! ::)). I actually,prefer the Fifth to the Fourth symphony. The Seventh is my favourite. The Fifth was the first George Lloyd symphony I ever heard.
Thanks. No.8 on a fine old Lyrita LP was my first encounter with Lloyd. Apart from 4 and 7, 5,8,11 and 12 are my favourites along with the piano concerto 'Scapegoat' and the Khachaturian-like Piano Concerto No.3, which also reminds me in sections of Alfred Newman's fine score for the original film of 'The Diary of Anne Frank'.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 01:12:46 PM
Oops yes! I forgot about the Piano Concerto No 3. I also have that one on a conifer cassette. That is definitely one of my favourites. I don't know the 'Scapegoat'. Do you prefer that to third,by the way? The Piano concerto No 3 is a bit of a blockbuster in it's own way. I love that slow movement.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2017, 01:40:46 PM
Oops yes! I forgot about the Piano Concerto No 3. I also have that one on a conifer cassette. That is definitely one of my favourites. I don't know the 'Scapegoat'. Do you prefer that to third,by the way? The Piano concerto No 3 is a bit of a blockbuster in it's own way. I love that slow movement.
'Scapegoat' is more poetic and restrained but rather moving - reminds me a bit of Symphony 7. I think it's his best PC although I thoroughly enjoy No.3.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on August 09, 2017, 03:50:02 PM
New release which I've ordered for the poetic Symphony 7. Together with No.4 it is my favourite symphony by George Lloyd:


Vandermolen, I like your style.  I agree with you.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on August 09, 2017, 11:47:55 PM
'Scapegoat' is more poetic and restrained but rather moving - reminds me a bit of Symphony 7. I think it's his best PC although I thoroughly enjoy No.3.
I'm going to have to hear that one,when I can? I will resist it for the time being,as I've just bought a couple of cd's and a book. One of the purchases was the new Lyrita,Daniel Jones cd.
I have read some posts at the Art Music Forum,suggesting frustration that Lyrita have released a cd of Lloyd's Symphonies 6 & 7,when they could have released something that isn't available on cd. I can understand their frustration;but they've just brought out more Daniel Jones,and a 2cd set of Fricker symphonies is going to be released in October. Anyway,composer's interpretations are always interesting,and the Seventh is one of George Lloyd's best;so I'm quite happy with this release! :) I gather the Sixth is in a more light hearted vein? I believe Sarge like it. But then I gather he likes them all,and is what you migh call,a big fan! He posted a,sort of,'guide' to his Symphonies on this thread,I seem to remember,quite some posts ago,and I must look at it again.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2017, 01:45:08 PM
Vandermolen, I like your style.  I agree with you.
:)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2017, 01:49:28 PM
I'm going to have to hear that one,when I can? I will resist it for the time being,as I've just bought a couple of cd's and a book. One of the purchases was the new Lyrita,Daniel Jones cd.
I have read some posts at the Art Music Forum,suggesting frustration that Lyrita have released a cd of Lloyd's Symphonies 6 & 7,when they could have released something that isn't available on cd. I can understand their frustration;but they've just brought out more Daniel Jones,and a 2cd set of Fricker symphonies is going to be released in October. Anyway,composer's interpretations are always interesting,and the Seventh is one of George Lloyd's best;so I'm quite happy with this release! :) I gather the Sixth is in a more light hearted vein? I believe Sarge like it. But then I gather he likes them all,and is what you migh call,a big fan! He posted a,sort of,'guide' to his Symphonies on this thread,I seem to remember,quite some posts ago,and I must look at it again.
No.7 has more appeal than No.6. So far I've resisted the temptation to buy the Daniel Jones CD including Symphony 2 but I've greatly enjoyed Symphony 1. I just wish that Lyrita would release Ruth Gipps's Symphony 4.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2017, 10:06:38 PM
As far as one can tell from the short sample tracks on Amazon UK the performance of Symphony 7 on the forthcoming Lyrita CD (Downes) is more urgent and quite different to George Lloyd's more reflective recording on Conifer. I really look forward to hearing the whole symphony on Lyrita.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on August 10, 2017, 10:21:15 PM
Just got a hold of a copy of the 11th. Look forward to listening to it!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2017, 11:07:53 PM
Just got a hold of a copy of the 11th. Look forward to listening to it!
Great stuff! It's the only one I've heard live with George Lloyd conducting at the Barbican in London. It reminds me of Khachaturian in places as does Lloyd's Third Piano Concerto. It (Symphony 11 and PC 3) has a very catchy theme in the last movement.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Scion7 on August 10, 2017, 11:08:19 PM
Still have not followed up on my early 2016 promise to check out Lloyd's music.  I should rectify that - I keep getting diverted by somewhat "forgotten" 1850-1930 Romantics and so on.

(https://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/mp/compositions/P106415402MPC113304565/views/1,width=300,height=300,appearanceId=486,backgroundColor=E8E8E8,version=1440596141/british-flag-smiley-face-tanks-women-s-bamboo-performance-tank-by-all-sport.jpg)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 11, 2017, 12:01:37 PM
Still have not followed up on my early 2016 promise to check out Lloyd's music.  I should rectify that - I keep getting diverted by somewhat "forgotten" 1850-1930 Romantics and so on.

(https://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/mp/compositions/P106415402MPC113304565/views/1,width=300,height=300,appearanceId=486,backgroundColor=E8E8E8,version=1440596141/british-flag-smiley-face-tanks-women-s-bamboo-performance-tank-by-all-sport.jpg)
Yes, get on with it! 8)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on August 17, 2017, 05:12:09 AM
New release which I've ordered for the poetic Symphony 7. Together with No.4 it is my favourite symphony by George Lloyd:



Does anyone know when this will be released?  I don't see it on Amazon or lytira's website.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2017, 06:16:56 AM
Does anyone know when this will be released?  I don't see it on Amazon or lytira's website.
1st September according to the Amazon.co.uk website.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Scion7 on August 17, 2017, 06:06:02 PM
He didn't compose a lot of chamber works, but still one would think that some of it would have been recorded.


Lament, Air and Dance, for Violin & Piano  (1975)
Sonata for Violin & Piano  (1976)
A Miniature Triptych (1) for Brass Quintet 2 Trpt,Horn,Trbn,Tba  (1981)

8-28-17 oops!  my mistake - Tasmin Little/Martin Roscoe - Troy029-2 / Albany

radio broadcast - Equale Brass
   


Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Scion7 on August 27, 2017, 02:53:11 PM
Yes, get on with it! 8)

Sunday night's project!
Going to download the YT audio files and take them for a spin over the coming days.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on August 28, 2017, 12:32:08 PM
Sunday night's project!
Going to download the YT audio files and take them for a spin over the coming days.
:)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Scion7 on August 28, 2017, 07:07:53 PM
Continuing on a very, very early Tuesday morning when I should be in bed!
Good stuff - melodic, well constructed.
He was a good composer of music for brass - a couple of live performance vids for your ... downloadness ...

King's Messenger  -->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dob6Y4ocMs

The Forest of Arden -->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvIzjmnR_pE
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on August 29, 2017, 05:53:24 AM
Continuing on a very, very early Tuesday morning when I should be in bed!
Good stuff - melodic, well constructed.
He was a good composer of music for brass - a couple of live performance vids for your ... downloadness ...

King's Messenger  -->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dob6Y4ocMs

The Forest of Arden -->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvIzjmnR_pE

Brits have always been good brass writers it seems.  I love Malcolm Arnold's, Derek Bourgeois' (unlike his orchestral music that is never performed his brass music is very popular), Arthur Butterworth's brass music immensely.   
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Scion7 on August 29, 2017, 11:52:07 AM
I've been giving this a listen.

(https://s26.postimg.org/z2j8pid7d/Lloyd-piano.jpg)

African Shrine is an agressive, Bartokian piece.






Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on September 02, 2017, 05:17:38 AM
The performance of the Symphony 7 here is, IMHO, terrific in this release of the premiere performance under Edward Downes. It is darker and more epic than in the Conifer release under the composer. I've had to play it twice already.
Paul Conway speculates in the notes that Lloyd's traumatic war-time experiences may be being played out here more than in the Fourth Symphony, which is usually associated with the War:

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on September 02, 2017, 03:54:28 PM
The performance of the Symphony 7 here is, IMHO, terrific in this release of the premiere performance under Edward Downes. It is darker and more epic than in the Conifer release under the composer. I've had to play it twice already.
Paul Conway speculates in the notes that Lloyd's traumatic war-time experiences may be being played out here more than in the Fourth Symphony, which is usually associated with the War:



Wow was this good!  Great CD.  Very strong work and performance in fine analog sound. 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on September 03, 2017, 02:04:23 AM
Wow was this good!  Great CD.  Very strong work and performance in fine analog sound.
Delighted you think so too.  :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 28, 2018, 09:01:42 AM
Just want to say: I have listened to symphonies 4-9 for the past few weeks. Have fallen head over heels in love with 6, 7 and 9. Will expand on this later.

One gripe - what's Theresa May doing on that Lyrita cover of 6 & 7?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 28, 2018, 09:25:08 AM
Just want to say: I have listened to symphonies 4-9 for the past few weeks. Have fallen head over heels in love with 6, 7 and 9. Will expand on this later.

One gripe - what's Theresa May doing on that Lyrita cover of 6 & 7?

It's Margaret Rutherford actually.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=margaret+rutherford&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiX5qncxI_aAhUUesAKHXr8BakQ_AUIESgB&biw=1024&bih=672#imgrc=TAnxrTsfmusdUM:

 8)

Symphonies 4,7,8,10 and 11 are my favourites plus the 'Scapegoat' piano concerto and also PC No.3.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 28, 2018, 09:37:56 AM
Have fallen head over heels in love with 6, 7 and 9.

Symphonies 4,7,8,10 and 11 are my favourites

My Top Five: 7, 5, 4, 12, 11 ...although I enjoy them all, more or less. The only real problem is the last movement of 8: just too long, frantic and unvaried.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 28, 2018, 09:41:02 AM
My Top Five: 7, 5, 4, 12, 11 ...although I enjoy them all, more or less. The only real problem is the last movement of 8: just too long, frantic and unvaried.

Sarge

I meant 12 and not 10. 12 is a poetic and touching end to the cycle. No.11 and PC 3 remind me of Khachaturian.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 28, 2018, 09:41:17 AM
It's Margaret Rutherford actually.


(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/Miss%20Marple.jpg)


Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 28, 2018, 09:43:25 AM
I meant 12 and not 10. 12 is a poetic and touching end to the cycle.

Ah...I confess I was surprised the band symphony was in your top 5. 12 makes more sense, and on that we agree.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 28, 2018, 02:10:27 PM

(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/Miss%20Marple.jpg)


Sarge

Brilliant!
LOL
 ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on April 01, 2018, 07:14:08 PM
I really like Lloyd's PC no. 4, which often has a lush, Rachmaninoffian flavor. The finale is annoyingly catchy! I must become more familiar with his symphonies - I only know no. 8, which I liked quite a bit.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on April 02, 2018, 04:41:26 AM
If you like,the eighth,you're bound to enjoy No's 4-7. I like the Seventh best,followed by the Fifth and Fourth (in that order).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on April 07, 2018, 12:25:39 AM
If you like,the eighth,you're bound to enjoy No's 4-7. I like the Seventh best,followed by the Fifth and Fourth (in that order).

Those are the finest ones I think although I also like the slow movement of No.8 and the Khachaturian-like No.11.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 11, 2018, 07:08:53 AM
Symphonies 4-9 are at this moment my core Lloyd symphonies. I have postponed listening to the final three, because I want to have something to look forward to. I never expected to appreciate... Miss Marple so much!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on April 11, 2018, 02:29:44 PM
Symphonies 4-9 are at this moment my core Lloyd symphonies. I have postponed listening to the final three, because I want to have something to look forward to. I never expected to appreciate... Miss Marple so much!
Excellent Johan - it's amazing that she had time to compose between solving all those mysterious and complicated murder cases.
 8)

I like 11 and 12 also and the PC 'Scapegoat' and PC 3 which has a great tune in the finale.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on April 11, 2018, 03:53:22 PM
Symphonies 4-9 are at this moment my core Lloyd symphonies. I have postponed listening to the final three, because I want to have something to look forward to. I never expected to appreciate... Miss Marple so much!

Johan, you won't be disappointed when you continue your exploration of this very fine composer.  I also enjoy his large-scale oratorios so after you exhaust the symphonies, there is much else to explore.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on April 13, 2018, 12:12:35 AM
Aha,the "modify" function is back (with me) at last!! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on April 13, 2018, 12:13:12 AM
I've received the Lyrita cd of 6 & 7. My father only has a cheap cd player I left there,with fairly basic sound quality,at best. (It also looks like one of those apes in the movie franchise,if you look at it the right way!! ??? ;D). I can listen to it in much better sound,now I'm back! Interestigly,I expected not to like the Sixth. Lightweight it may be,and I doubt it will be a favourite;but it really shows off Lloyd's talent for orchestration;and a lovely slow movement. If you fancy a nice,lightweight symphony by a fairly recent composer,this could be just your cup of tea. I will pore over the meatier Seventh a little later. It's nice to listen to them in succession,by the way. The booklet notes observe that the Sixth is probably (or is,I forget?) the best of Llloyd's lighter symphony forays.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 13, 2018, 01:22:13 AM
Johan, you won't be disappointed when you continue your exploration of this very fine composer.  I also enjoy his large-scale oratorios so after you exhaust the symphonies, there is much else to explore.

Good suggestion! I did listen to his Symphonic Mass. But only the once. There is a lot still to get to know.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 13, 2018, 01:23:33 AM
Excellent Johan - it's amazing that she had time to compose between solving all those mysterious and complicated murder cases.
 8)

I like 11 and 12 also and the PC 'Scapegoat' and PC 3 which has a great tune in the finale.

She was an amazing lady.

11, 12 and the two PCs will be listened to in due course...
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on April 15, 2018, 08:59:08 AM
Good suggestion! I did listen to his Symphonic Mass. But only the once. There is a lot still to get to know.

The Symphonic Mass is one of my favourite British choral works. The climax of the Sanctus is spectacular! I've also got The Vigil of Venus and A Litany, but I haven't listened to those as often.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on July 21, 2018, 03:22:00 AM
There isn't a Ruth Gipps thread;but I wonder if vandermolen (or anyone else who is interested in this composer) is aware  that Chandos are going to be releasing a cd of Ruth Gipps' Symphonies 2 & 4. You can view the artwork on the MDT website!

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on July 27, 2018, 06:07:45 AM
I've ordered Lloyd's recording of Symphony No. 5, so I'm looking forward to hearing that. At close to an hour in length, a rather substantial symphony.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 27, 2018, 06:11:15 AM
That symphony has really grown on me. At the moment my favourite Lloyd symphonies are 5, 6, 7 and 9.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on July 27, 2018, 03:16:52 PM
That symphony has really grown on me. At the moment my favourite Lloyd symphonies are 5, 6, 7 and 9.

4 will soon be added to that list. :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 27, 2018, 10:13:44 PM
4 will soon be added to that list. :)

4 is my favourite and I prefer Edward Downes's recording that the one conducted by the composer, although that is good as well. Other than that 7,8,11 and 12 remain my favourites. I especially like the slow movement of No.8 -must listen to it again.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on July 28, 2018, 12:56:56 AM
Strange,you miss out the Fifth?! That has to be one of the very best. I remember hearing it on the radio and recording it on cassette. It stayed in my mind. It was years before I got around to buying a cd,though! I must admit I can't make any headway with the Eighth,despite repeated attempts. Yet,I believe that was the work that kick started the revival of interest in George Lloyd's music.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 28, 2018, 03:29:35 AM
Strange,you miss out the Fifth?! That has to be one of the very best. I remember hearing it on the radio and recording it on cassette. It stayed in my mind. It was years before I got around to buying a cd,though! I must admit I can't make any headway with the Eighth,despite repeated attempts. Yet,I believe that was the work that kick started the revival of interest in George Lloyd's music.

I like No.5 but haven't heard it for ages.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on July 28, 2018, 04:40:02 AM
I love Edward Downes's Lyrita release of Symphony No. 6 and 7.  This is a very thrilling interpretation of No. 7, I think beating the composer's own version.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 28, 2018, 06:01:53 AM
I love Edward Downes's Lyrita release of Symphony No. 6 and 7.  This is a very thrilling interpretation of No. 7, I think beating the composer's own version.
I almost agree with you, were it not for the fact that I think the main climax of the first movement is marginally more powerful under Lloyd himself.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on July 28, 2018, 10:08:58 AM
At the moment, my Lloyd collection consists of Symphonies Nos. 1, 4, 7 & 12 (with No. 5 coming this week all being well), plus The Vigil of Venus, Symphonic Mass and A Litany, although I haven't heard the latter as often. I gave The Vigil of Venus a rare spin the other day. I enjoy the music, but I have trouble following the text of that one. And at 78 minutes it's quite lengthy so I don't often have the capacity to tackle such a work.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on July 28, 2018, 03:13:01 PM
I almost agree with you, were it not for the fact that I think the main climax of the first movement is marginally more powerful under Lloyd himself.

But the work comes together in its final movement.  That is where Downes really shines.  Please hear it again. 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 28, 2018, 09:38:28 PM
But the work comes together in its final movement.  That is where Downes really shines.  Please hear it again.
I know what you mean. I had the piece on a loop in both performances, so revisiting it again isn't necessary. The fact remains - for me, that is - that the first climax comes off even stronger in the Lloyd. Both performances are great. And the work itself is a masterpiece.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 28, 2018, 11:20:08 PM
The work I haven't got my head round yet is the Symphonic Mass which is rated very highly. Any views on it?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on July 29, 2018, 12:09:33 PM
The Seventh Symphony is a masterpiece in my view. The obsessively ticking xylophone figure which opens the work and returns at the terrifying climax of the first movement and at the ending of the work is really effective. The first movement contains some really imaginative orchestration effects (witness the clattering col legno strings at one point) and has a nervous anxiety often bordering on the nightmarish that recalls Malcolm Arnold. The slow movement has a lovely delicacy (to contrast the outer movements) which several distinctively Rosenkavalier-like passages in the upper woodwinds and celesta. The finale is a bit overlong perhaps, but contains some impressively imposing brass writing and heroic string themes, before coming to a movingly quiet ending of uneasy peace.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 29, 2018, 12:28:17 PM
I think the finally is a tad too long, too. Still, the work is very solid, very imaginative and moving. Yes, a masterpiece.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on July 30, 2018, 02:38:50 AM
The climax of the finale of No. 7 is immensely powerful imo. With the only appearance in a Lloyd symphony of the organ, albeit for just a bar or two. But it's certainly effective!

Meanwhile, my copy of Symphony No. 5 has arrived, and I'm listening as I write.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 AM
I think the finally is a tad too long, too. Still, the work is very solid, very imaginative and moving. Yes, a masterpiece.

It's long but in a Baxian way...it's a bit of a bubble bath with a glass of wine.  Pure pleasure.  Some people hate wine and bubble baths and Bax so might not like this either.  Brian on the other hand, even with the Gothic, he doesn't stay on an idea for very long so a 110 minute symphony feels like several integrated symphonies and his later shorter works are concise but have a manic quality to them.  Lloyd is sort of the opposite.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 30, 2018, 05:18:44 AM
Interesting comment!
I have always seen Delius and Brian as opposites, and I love them both almost as much (Brian wins by a margin). Bax and Lloyd are more in the middle of that spectrum. The epic and the lyrical are more evenly matched. Lloyd is just a bit more sober than Bax, and I now prefer him. But Bax 1, 2 and 3 are always fresh. That finale of the Seventh reminded me of Bax, too.
Brian composed his Symphony No. 13 in 1959, the same year Lloyd composed his Symphony No. 7. Long live compositional diversity!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on July 30, 2018, 02:59:44 PM
Interesting comment!
I have always seen Delius and Brian as opposites, and I love them both almost as much (Brian wins by a margin). Bax and Lloyd are more in the middle of that spectrum. The epic and the lyrical are more evenly matched. Lloyd is just a bit more sober than Bax, and I now prefer him. But Bax 1, 2 and 3 are always fresh. That finale of the Seventh reminded me of Bax, too.
Brian composed his Symphony No. 13 in 1959, the same year Lloyd composed his Symphony No. 7. Long live compositional diversity!

Awesome post!  I wish Brian was better with transitions so his ideas felt less manic and more, well, structured.  I think those of us who love him are able to "imagine" the structure he intended.  Lloyd spells it out how ideas go from one to the next.  It could be that Brian just had too many ideas but that is generally true with EVERY creative artist.  They need to tame the ideas and show discipline towards them.  That is one of the reasons why I love Rachmaninoff, though he has many wonderful ideas, he was so much mastery of transitions.  He's just so freaking good at it that I randomly picked this moment:
https://youtu.be/fvy0nN5t0Po?t=1882 (https://youtu.be/fvy0nN5t0Po?t=1882)
Where he transitions from one idea to the next so effortlessly.  Listen to how the melody of the immediate idea because secondary accompaniment as the mood and harmony transitions so gradually.  Some might think "why does everything have to be spelled out?" but to me this is effortless transition of ideas.  We get this in Lloyd and I think Brian doesn't care if the listener understands the connection between ideas.  Again, we know each other through our love of Brian so don't take this as a criticism of his since I traveled around the world to hear the Gothic once in my lifetime but I always felt Brian was at his best when he connected the dots.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on July 30, 2018, 03:53:15 PM
Awesome post!  I wish Brian was better with transitions so his ideas felt less manic and more, well, structured.  I think those of us who love him are able to "imagine" the structure he intended.  Lloyd spells it out how ideas go from one to the next.  It could be that Brian just had too many ideas but that is generally true with EVERY creative artist.  They need to tame the ideas and show discipline towards them.  That is one of the reasons why I love Rachmaninoff, though he has many wonderful ideas, he was so much mastery of transitions.  He's just so freaking good at it that I randomly picked this moment:
https://youtu.be/fvy0nN5t0Po?t=1882 (https://youtu.be/fvy0nN5t0Po?t=1882)
Where he transitions from one idea to the next so effortlessly.  Listen to how the melody of the immediate idea because secondary accompaniment as the mood and harmony transitions so gradually.  Some might think "why does everything have to be spelled out?" but to me this is effortless transition of ideas.  We get this in Lloyd and I think Brian doesn't care if the listener understands the connection between ideas.  Again, we know each other through our love of Brian so don't take this as a criticism of his since I traveled around the world to hear the Gothic once in my lifetime but I always felt Brian was at his best when he connected the dots.


I agree with what you say about Brian - the relative lack of transitions in his music is something I’ve had trouble warming to. He has some great ideas, but the lack of connective tissue between them is an issue for me. Also agreed about Rachmaninoff - his transitions are masterly. Another great example in his output is the transition into the second theme of the first movement of the Symphonic Dances.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 30, 2018, 04:16:00 PM
Thanks for the above ruminations. I want to say something about that lack of transitions in (late) Brian. I think it is a function of old age. There is less of a focus on a 'narrative', on melody and organic transitions. Concision and polyphony are the norm. The idea that age could be one of the reasons came to me when I got to know a very aged Dutch writer and poet, Sybren Polet. His late poetry, written in his eighties, is allusive, rapid, jumpy. A firework of associations, images and ideas. He told me he would never write any fiction anymore, that took too much time, time he didn't have. Remind you of someone?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on July 30, 2018, 10:37:21 PM
I enjoyed Symphony No. 5. Definitely one of the lighter symphonies, despite its near-hour-long length. The first 3 movement omit certain instruments: heavy brass and percussion in the 1st, for example. It seemed to me like it had a breeze blowing through it, so to speak. Even the 4th movement Lamento didn't seem overwhelmingly tragic to me. Certainly sounds like a product of the apparent happy time he was having when he wrote it.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on July 31, 2018, 01:18:34 AM
Awesome post!  I wish Brian was better with transitions so his ideas felt less manic and more, well, structured.  I think those of us who love him are able to "imagine" the structure he intended.  Lloyd spells it out how ideas go from one to the next.  It could be that Brian just had too many ideas but that is generally true with EVERY creative artist.  They need to tame the ideas and show discipline towards them.  That is one of the reasons why I love Rachmaninoff, though he has many wonderful ideas, he was so much mastery of transitions.  He's just so freaking good at it that I randomly picked this moment:
https://youtu.be/fvy0nN5t0Po?t=1882 (https://youtu.be/fvy0nN5t0Po?t=1882)
Where he transitions from one idea to the next so effortlessly.  Listen to how the melody of the immediate idea because secondary accompaniment as the mood and harmony transitions so gradually.  Some might think "why does everything have to be spelled out?" but to me this is effortless transition of ideas.  We get this in Lloyd and I think Brian doesn't care if the listener understands the connection between ideas.  Again, we know each other through our love of Brian so don't take this as a criticism of his since I traveled around the world to hear the Gothic once in my lifetime but I always felt Brian was at his best when he connected the dots.
OT

I think that The Bells is Rachmaninov's masterpiece - a magnificent and deeply moving score.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on July 31, 2018, 05:00:33 AM
Thanks for the above ruminations. I want to say something about that lack of transitions in (late) Brian. I think it is a function of old age. There is less of a focus on a 'narrative', on melody and organic transitions. Concision and polyphony are the norm. The idea that age could be one of the reasons came to me when I got to know a very aged Dutch writer and poet, Sybren Polet. His late poetry, written in his eighties, is allusive, rapid, jumpy. A firework of associations, images and ideas. He told me he would never write any fiction anymore, that took too much time, time he didn't have. Remind you of someone?

Interesting point.  I also wonder, George Lloyd had something Brian never really had (I might be wrong so you correct me if I'm wrong).  Lloyd was a huge success from an early age then suffered from disillusion and neglect through most of his life but I believe had a resurgence in the last years of his life.  I believe Brian never had success and was pretty much ignored all his life except by people who were huge fans such as Malcolm MacDonald and Robert Simpson.  Perhaps this difference means that Brian never really thought his works would be heard so they didn't really have a need from his point of view of speaking to anyone other than himself.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on October 08, 2018, 02:36:18 AM
My copy of Symphony No. 11 has arrived, and I'm giving it a listen now.

...And I love it! The orchestration is masterful. Like the Fifth, it seems like a symphony borne out of joyful times, where even the Grave slow movement (IV) is more of an affirmation of life than a lament of death. The divisi string chords that start the second movement are incredible, and the enormous climax of the finale is mindblowing!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on October 08, 2018, 05:00:35 AM
My copy of Symphony No. 11 has arrived, and I'm giving it a listen now.

...And I love it! The orchestration is masterful. Like the Fifth, it seems like a symphony borne out of joyful times, where even the Grave slow movement (IV) is more of an affirmation of life than a lament of death. The divisi string chords that start the second movement are incredible, and the enormous climax of the finale is mindblowing!
One of my favourites and I even saw George Lloyd conduct it  :)
It was at the Barbican in London and is still the only Lloyd symphony I've heard live. After it I wrote a crazed fan letter to George Lloyd and had a nice correspondence with him. Symphony 11 reminds me of Khachaturian and has that wonderful repeating tune in the last movement. I'm glad that you enjoy it as well.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on October 08, 2018, 06:29:45 AM
One of my favourites and I even saw George Lloyd conduct it  :)
It was at the Barbican in London and is still the only Lloyd symphony I've heard live. After it I wrote a crazed fan letter to George Lloyd and had a nice correspondence with him. Symphony 11 reminds me of Khachaturian and has that wonderful repeating tune in the last movement. I'm glad that you enjoy it as well.

Tell us some of the stories of your nice correspondences with him!  I quite enjoy No. 11, I think it was the first of his I heard on tape.  I thought the opening is dark and exciting, the elegy moving, and the finale exuberant.  It reminded me of Walton's Symphony No. 1 overall and the ending especially. 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on October 08, 2018, 07:44:29 AM
Tell us some of the stories of your nice correspondences with him!  I quite enjoy No. 11, I think it was the first of his I heard on tape.  I thought the opening is dark and exciting, the elegy moving, and the finale exuberant.  It reminded me of Walton's Symphony No. 1 overall and the ending especially.
I'll try to find the letters but goodness knows where they are.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on December 12, 2018, 05:07:27 PM
I have just been absolutely blown away by Lloyd's A Symphonic Mass. This work, written late in the composer's life in 1992, shows no advancement of the composer's typical idiom or flirtations with atonality. I've seen it described as Lloyd's masterpiece, and it certainly strikes me as the most consistently inspired work by him I've heard - there's not a single uninteresting moment. It is staunchly tonal, and when dissonance is used it is to great effect. It is an epic, life-affirming work though not without its darker moments - the Credo contains a terrifying nightmare vision at its center. It's a marvelous continuation of the British choral/orchestral tradition of VW, Walton, and Howells. Highly recommended to all:


Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on December 12, 2018, 05:54:02 PM
I have just been absolutely blown away by Lloyd's A Symphonic Mass. This work, written late in the composer's life in 1992, shows no advancement of the composer's typical idiom or flirtations with atonality. I've seen it described as Lloyd's masterpiece, and it certainly strikes me as the most consistently inspired work by him I've heard - there's not a single uninteresting moment. It is staunchly tonal, and when dissonance is used it is to great effect. It is an epic, life-affirming work though not without its darker moments - the Credo contains a terrifying nightmare vision at its center. It's a marvelous continuation of the British choral/orchestral tradition of VW, Walton, and Howells. Highly recommended to all:



I share your connection to this composer and your namesake.  I feel George Lloyd is sort of like the Kurt Atterberg of Britain.  Sort of a very fine composer who is marginalized because of his traditional idiom.   But the music is complex hiding behind tradition.  Yes, he didn't revolutionize composition the way Beethoven, Debussy, Stravinsky might have but there are VERY many great composers who are individualistic rather than revolutionary! 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: SymphonicAddict on December 12, 2018, 06:12:44 PM
I have just been absolutely blown away by Lloyd's A Symphonic Mass. This work, written late in the composer's life in 1992, shows no advancement of the composer's typical idiom or flirtations with atonality. I've seen it described as Lloyd's masterpiece, and it certainly strikes me as the most consistently inspired work by him I've heard - there's not a single uninteresting moment. It is staunchly tonal, and when dissonance is used it is to great effect. It is an epic, life-affirming work though not without its darker moments - the Credo contains a terrifying nightmare vision at its center. It's a marvelous continuation of the British choral/orchestral tradition of VW, Walton, and Howells. Highly recommended to all:




Quite interesting! I like the majority of his symphonies and concertos, so this will be on my listening way.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on December 12, 2018, 11:36:33 PM
Quite interesting! I like the majority of his symphonies and concertos, so this will be on my listening way.

Me too. I've owned the CD for years but hardly know it. Must rectify that.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on December 13, 2018, 08:31:04 AM
Yes! The Symphonic Mass is amazing! It's either that or the 12th Symphony that currently stands as my favourite Lloyd work.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on December 15, 2018, 01:13:15 PM
I share your connection to this composer and your namesake.  I feel George Lloyd is sort of like the Kurt Atterberg of Britain.  Sort of a very fine composer who is marginalized because of his traditional idiom.   But the music is complex hiding behind tradition.  Yes, he didn't revolutionize composition the way Beethoven, Debussy, Stravinsky might have but there are VERY many great composers who are individualistic rather than revolutionary!

Your Atterberg comparison is very apt. I love the music of the so-called 20th century "reactionaries" such as Lloyd, Atterberg, Braga Santos, Hanson, Alwyn, Damase, etc. who composed fully tonal, lushly melodic music well into the mid-to-late 20th century when serialism and other avant-gardisms were all the rage. I feel that they have been severely shortchanged in the classical music world simply because of their conservative idioms, which is a shame, as their music has such great appeal and would bring down the house in concert if only given the chance!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on December 15, 2018, 01:15:52 PM
Quite interesting! I like the majority of his symphonies and concertos, so this will be on my listening way.

I'm sure both you and Jeffrey would like A Symphonic Mass very much as well! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Papy Oli on February 16, 2019, 01:27:27 AM
Just a little thread bump to add my appreciation of his symphonies 6 & 7 (the Lyrita  Downes CD) I have recently discovered thanks to the discussions here.

I have now consequently ordered the 4/5/8 on Lyrita as well  ;D

For the remaining symphonies (in case 4/5/8 convince me further), I saw some of them are well priced on the George Lloyd society website. Is the shop on this site still active/reliable, would you know please ? Thanks.

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on February 16, 2019, 12:09:28 PM
Just a little thread bump to add my appreciation of his symphonies 6 & 7 (the Lyrita  Downes CD) I have recently discovered thanks to the discussions here.

I have now consequently ordered the 4/5/8 on Lyrita as well  ;D

For the remaining symphonies (in case 4/5/8 convince me further), I saw some of them are well priced on the George Lloyd society website. Is the shop on this site still active/reliable, would you know please ? Thanks.

Olivier - I've just checked the George Lloyd Society website and as far as I can tell it looks up and running. That Lyrita set is terrific. I rated Edward Downes as a great conductor and the performance of Symphony 4 is better than the composer's own version - good as that is.
Jeffrey
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Papy Oli on February 17, 2019, 10:15:07 AM
Olivier - I've just checked the George Lloyd Society website and as far as I can tell it looks up and running. That Lyrita set is terrific. I rated Edward Downes as a great conductor and the performance of Symphony 4 is better than the composer's own version - good as that is.
Jeffrey

Thank you Jeffrey. I might give it a go if/when i feel like exploring beyond the 4/5/6/7/8... although there are already some cheap used copies on AMZ of the 3/10/symphonic Mass...tempting...  0:)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on February 17, 2019, 10:37:39 AM
I'm sure both you and Jeffrey would like A Symphonic Mass very much as well! :)

I listened to it the other day Kyle and really enjoyed it. I hadn't really appreciated it before.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on February 17, 2019, 11:45:26 AM
I listened to it the other day Kyle and really enjoyed it. I hadn't really appreciated it before.

Great to hear! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Papy Oli on February 21, 2019, 02:01:11 AM
In case you can listen to it, the BBC Radio 4 podcast have a Desert Island Discs podcast with George Lloyd from 1995 here :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093pn9 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093pn9)

Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on February 21, 2019, 04:13:33 AM
In case you can listen to it, the BBC Radio 4 podcast have a Desert Island Discs podcast with George Lloyd from 1995 here :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093pn9 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093pn9)

Oh, didn't know that - thanks Olivier.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 21, 2019, 04:24:05 AM
In case you can listen to it, the BBC Radio 4 podcast have a Desert Island Discs podcast with George Lloyd from 1995 here :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093pn9 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093pn9)


Listening to it now. Many thanks! What a lovely man.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Papy Oli on February 21, 2019, 04:40:46 AM
I have not gone through the whole listings yet but there is the same program with Walton, Tippett and Ligeti too at least.

I have been rummaging through some of Radio 3 & 4 podcasts to help with my British "explorations" (queued up so far: composer of the week for Elgar, Walton, Tippett, Stevens, Butterworth, Rubbra, Parry... Secret Admirers on Berkeley, Arnold, Bax... Discovering Music on Elgar and Moeran symphonies,Finzi Terra Pax, Tippett, Walton again...Great Lives on Coleridge Taylor...)

A real goldmine, when one is late to this game like me  0:)
 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Papy Oli on February 21, 2019, 04:54:12 AM
Oh, didn't know that - thanks Olivier.


Listening to it now. Many thanks! What a lovely man.

You're both welcome. he certainly came across as a very endearing character in that program (I liked his simplicity and certain detachment towards his late "fame" and the BBC attitude).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 19, 2019, 10:25:22 AM
I enjoyed listening to his eighth symphony,last night. For some reason it hadn't "clicked" with me,until now. I would play No's 4,5 & 7;but the eighth would end up getting switched off! Yet,I believe it was the Lloyd symphony (or work?) which sparked off the Lloyd revival;so I kept thinking,maybe,I should like it?! Perhaps the sunnier demeanour of the work had something to do with it? Maybe,I needed a bit more of the drama and shadow that make the other three seem a little more varied in scope? But while this is not one of my favourite Lloyd symphony (at least not,yet!) it has some some of his most vivacious orchestration,and some exciting sounds from the brass section. I think I'll play it again later?!! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 19, 2019, 10:33:36 AM
Hi cilgwyn! That's funny - I've had exactly the same experience with the Eighth last week... Until now I loved symphonies 3-9, except 8. But last week the piece suddenly 'clicked' with me, too. Don't know why. It simply convinced me, and that final movement is incredibly exciting. I really admire Lloyd as a composer and as a man. He went through enormous trauma and still was able to create so much beauty and joy afterwards. To me, that's greatness.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 19, 2019, 01:10:10 PM
I enjoyed listening to his eighth symphony,last night. For some reason it hadn't "clicked" with me,until now. I would play No's 4,5 & 7;but the eighth would end up getting switched off! Yet,I believe it was the Lloyd symphony (or work?) which sparked off the Lloyd revival;so I kept thinking,maybe,I should like it?! Perhaps the sunnier demeanour of the work had something to do with it? Maybe,I needed a bit more of the drama and shadow that make the other three seem a little more varied in scope? But while this is not one of my favourite Lloyd symphony (at least not,yet!) it has some some of his most vivacious orchestration,and some exciting sounds from the brass section. I think I'll play it again later?!! :)
There was a lot of excitement when Lloyd's 8th Symphony appeared on a Lyrita CD. It has a lovely slow movement.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 19, 2019, 03:12:51 PM
Yes,I remember! There was quite a flurry of interest in George LLoyd at the time! The eighth isn't one of my favourites yet,and might never be;but I can see (hear) why it aroused such interest. It is dazzlingly scored.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on March 19, 2019, 08:08:59 PM
I just listened to Lloyd's 4th Symphony Arctic for the first time (Philarmonia/Downes on Lyrita) and I am utterly BLOWN AWAY!!! My God, this man could write some bewilderingly thrilling, colorful, memorable music!!! The first three movements are fantastic, but nothing prepared me for the sheer gloriousness of the 20-minute finale, where one splendid, life-affirming idea follows another in a manner not unlike the finale of another great 4th, the Braga Santos. When I read that the symphony was inspired by horrific events Lloyd experienced while serving in the Arctic Envoy (?) during WWII, I was expecting a dark, tragic piece, but, save for the dramatic climax of the first movement which very effectively portrays gunfire, this is an uplifting, tuneful, and masterfully orchestrated work which demands to be heard. Definitely my discovery of the year so far!!!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 19, 2019, 10:47:10 PM
I just listened to Lloyd's 4th Symphony Arctic for the first time (Philarmonia/Downes on Lyrita) and I am utterly BLOWN AWAY!!! My God, this man could write some bewilderingly thrilling, colorful, memorable music!!! The first three movements are fantastic, but nothing prepared me for the sheer gloriousness of the 20-minute finale, where one splendid, life-affirming idea follows another in a manner not unlike the finale of another great 4th, the Braga Santos. When I read that the symphony was inspired by horrific events Lloyd experienced while serving in the Arctic Envoy (?) during WWII, I was expecting a dark, tragic piece, but, save for the dramatic climax of the first movement which very effectively portrays gunfire, this is an uplifting, tuneful, and masterfully orchestrated work which demands to be heard. Definitely my discovery of the year so far!!!
Delighted that you like this great work Kyle. It is my favourite although I like No.7 very much as well. His wartime trauma came from his experiences on an Arctic Convoy, basically Royal Navy protected merchant ships taking much-needed supplies to Russia (USSR) in World War Two. Many ships were sunk on these convoys by U-boats and of course you couldn't survive for long in those Arctic waters.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Roasted Swan on March 20, 2019, 12:16:23 AM
George Loyd is a composer I've never liked as much as I think I should or ought to.  He absolute fits the profile of the type of music I enjoy but I rarely find myself reaching for his discs to listen to.  One of the few (very few) instances where I bought some of his recordings, sold them, and them bought them again!  But I'm going to listen to Symphony No.4 in the next couple of days again and hope I have a "clicking"(!) moment
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on March 20, 2019, 12:17:36 AM
I only have #11 and loved it!
Maybe I should venture into a few more works.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 12:57:58 AM
I got one of those "click" moments about two weeks ago. I had just lifted a heavy barbell onto my shoulders. Unfortunately,it was my back!! ??? :(
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 20, 2019, 01:11:17 AM
I got one of those "click" moments about two weeks ago. I had just lifted a heavy barbell onto my shoulders. Unfortunately,it was my back!! ??? :(


Ai...


'Back' to Lloyd: as I said, 3-9 are all good, with 7 and 9 being special favourites.


Two things I noticed about the Third  Symphony: the ending is very Brianic, and the second theme of the first movement uncannily predicts a similar theme in Khatchaturian's Second Symphony.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: arpeggio on March 20, 2019, 02:36:37 AM
Whenever some misinformed self proclaimed expert bemoans the lack of tonal 20th century music, Lloyd is one of the composers I use to counter their claim.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 02:50:48 AM

Ai...


'Back' to Lloyd: as I said, 3-9 are all good, with 7 and 9 being special favourites.


Two things I noticed about the Third  Symphony: the ending is very Brianic, and the second theme of the first movement uncannily predicts a similar theme in Khatchaturian's Second Symphony.
I haven't heard that one. Would you recommend the third,Johan? A Brianic ending (!) and I like Khatchaturian,at his best!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 20, 2019, 02:57:12 AM
I would certainly recommend it. It's very compact, a nice mix of power and beauty. The start of the third movement really sounds like Brian, it also starts the Coda. After that you get a triumphant peroration with a very prominent 'added-sixth' chord. Quite exhilarating. It's on YouTube.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 03:30:56 AM
Thanks for the reply,Johan. I'll have a listen there first. I'm trying to resist cd's for now. The old bank account. Don't want it getting too threadbare. I even put a block on websites selling cd's;but got around it by sending off a cheque to a shop that still sends out paper lists ::)! Remember those?!

By the way,if anyone here is ever without an internet connection ::) :(,they're called Classics Direct. They advertise in Gramophone,and I find them very good! They have special offers on certain labels;but enough advertising! ;D I was able to buy a new Brian cd,I seem to remember,when my pc went down,about a year,or two,back! Posting a letter,with a cheque,for a cd,feels so strange,now! To think I used to do it all the time (and po's when I was younger!)

NB: The cd I ordered by cheque,is the Lyrita cd of Rootham's First Symphony. My copy was,actually,a paid for download. Although,before that I had an off air tape. (I know,vandermolen likes that one!)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 20, 2019, 04:00:24 AM
Thanks for the reply,Johan. I'll have a listen there first. I'm trying to resist cd's for now. The old bank account. Don't want it getting too threadbare. I even put a block on websites selling cd's;but got around it by sending off a cheque to a shop that still sends out paper lists ::)! Remember those?!

By the way,if anyone here is ever without an internet connection ::) :(,they're called Classics Direct. They advertise in Gramophone,and I find them very good! They have special offers on certain labels;but enough advertising! ;D I was able to buy a new Brian cd,I seem to remember,when my pc went down,about a year,or two,back! Posting a letter,with a cheque,for a cd,feels so strange,now! To think I used to do it all the time (and po's when I was younger!)

NB: The cd I ordered by cheque,is the Lyrita cd of Rootham's First Symphony. My copy was,actually,a paid for download. Although,before that I had an off air tape. (I know,vandermolen likes that one!)
Yes, I do although Christo doesn't  8)
The Second is very moving, especially the choral finale, dictated to his student Patrick Hadley in the last few days of his (Rootham's) life. Rootham was the teacher of Bliss and I think that you can see Rootham's influence in Bliss's music. Going back to GL I hardly know Symphony 3 and must rectify that, especially after Johan's comments.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 05:09:14 AM
I have a feeling having the actual cd,with all the booklet notes, might help?! I must admit,I really do like the artwork,for some reason. I also like Holbrooke;although,even if you like his music,and I actually do,it's not him at his best (pleasant as I think it is!). I haven't heard the Bantock Overture! I also had an off air recording of the symphony conducted by Andrew Davis,I believe? I might still have it? Unfortunately,the sound has some fault (I think it starts well and switches to one channel?!!). A pity;as it would be interesting to hear another recording. I might try & upload it;but mucking about with Audacity almost has me yearning for the days of cassette recording!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7C1W1n.jpg)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 05:16:20 AM
I'm a bit of a fan of "original Lp artwork' for cd reissues. In the case of some Lyrita reissues,it could be difficult,of course;but I just looked up the original Lp and was confronted by this!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/0eob73z.jpg)

And,erm.........................................back to George Lloyd?!! ???
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 20, 2019, 05:35:38 AM
I have a feeling having the actual cd,with all the booklet notes, might help?! I must admit,I really do like the artwork,for some reason. I also like Holbrooke;although,even if you like his music,and I actually do,it's not him at his best (pleasant as I think it is!). I haven't heard the Bantock Overture! I also had an off air recording of the symphony conducted by Andrew Davis,I believe? I might still have it? Unfortunately,the sound has some fault (I think it starts well and switches to one channel?!!). A pity;as it would be interesting to hear another recording. I might try & upload it;but mucking about with Audacity almost has me yearning for the days of cassette recording!

(https://i.imgur.com/H7C1W1n.jpg)

I have the LP, the CD and a CD copy of the LP made before the CD was released  ::) yes, the booklet notes and art work are all part of the experience as far as I'm concerned. The CD cover is much better than the LP design. Keith Hensby was the graphic artist who produced all those LP designs. He was certainly alive and well and still designing a few years ago. I like the Bantock overture more than the Holbrooke. Partly due to your influence I think I have come to appreciate Holbrooke more in recent years. Yes, back to GL! Symphonies 4,7,11,8, 12 and 5 are my favourites, probably in that order
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 20, 2019, 05:45:13 AM
I loved symphonies 3-9, except 8. But last week the piece suddenly 'clicked' with me, too. Don't know why. It simply convinced me, and that final movement is incredibly exciting.

The last time I listened to all the symphonies, one right after another, the Eighth came in almost dead last when I ranked them. My problem was that last movement which I found too long, too frantic, too unvaried. But perhaps I just wasn't in the mood for it. I'll give it another try. Right now 7, 5 and 4 remain my favorites.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 20, 2019, 05:51:48 AM
But perhaps I just wasn't in the mood for it. I'll give it another try.


Who knows? For one reason or another I suddenly was able to go along with what this symphony was doing. And so that final movement really came off. 




Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Papy Oli on March 20, 2019, 08:04:12 AM
Really enjoying a similar journey through his symphonies. I have equally liked 4 through to 8 up to now (a couple of listens each to date). 10 is the only only one I have found really underwhelming so far. Listening to 11 as we speak and getting nicely drawn in that sound world again.

I have yet to hear 3, although I have had a run through Charade on that same CD, quirky and ok but nothing more.

2/9 & 1/11 are awaiting nicely in the basket and will be invested in before long to complete the cycle  0:)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 09:40:31 AM
I have the LP, the CD and a CD copy of the LP made before the CD was released  ::) yes, the booklet notes and art work are all part of the experience as far as I'm concerned. The CD cover is much better than the LP design. Keith Hensby was the graphic artist who produced all those LP designs. He was certainly alive and well and still designing a few years ago. I like the Bantock overture more than the Holbrooke. Partly due to your influence I think I have come to appreciate Holbrooke more in recent years. Yes, back to GL! Symphonies 4,7,11,8, 12 and 5 are my favourites, probably in that order
Actually,the Rootham Lp isn't that bad! It's like he was trying to create some kind of celtic imagery (those ornate brooches and jewellry). The Bax ones were terrible,though!

I still wouldn't rate the eighth as one of my favourites;but I listened to it last night,and I did enjoy it! He really could orchestrate! Oh,and great hair,too!! ;D :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 09:41:19 AM
Really enjoying a similar journey through his symphonies. I have equally liked 4 through to 8 up to now (a couple of listens each to date). 10 is the only only one I have found really underwhelming so far. Listening to 11 as we speak and getting nicely drawn in that sound world again.

I have yet to hear 3, although I have had a run through Charade on that same CD, quirky and ok but nothing more.

2/9 & 1/11 are awaiting nicely in the basket and will be invested in before long to complete the cycle  0:)
Glad you're enjoying his music! :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 20, 2019, 09:45:00 AM
Actually,the Rootham Lp isn't that bad! It's like he was trying to create some kind of celtic imagery (those ornate brooches and jewellry). The Bax ones were terrible,though!

I still wouldn't rate the eighth as one of my favourites;but I listened to it last night,and I did enjoy it! He really could orchestrate! Oh,and great hair,too!! ;D :)

Yes, here's the LP cover of Bax's Symphony 6 is ghastly green. Maybe someone who didn't like the symphony has attacked the LP sleeve on the right hand side by scraping at it with their fingernails, in the spirit (no pun intended) of 'The Lady in Black'   >:D
(http://)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 20, 2019, 09:58:33 AM
Is there anything resembling a consensus on Lloyd's most successful symphony, i.e. a place to start?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 20, 2019, 10:06:39 AM
Is there anything resembling a consensus on Lloyd's most successful symphony, i.e. a place to start?


As far as I'm concerned: Symphony No. 7.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 20, 2019, 10:13:10 AM
Is there anything resembling a consensus on Lloyd's most successful symphony, i.e. a place to start?

Most successful? That's a tough question. In terms of what it meant to Lloyd, I'd suggest 4. But 7 is my favorite by a small margin over 4 and 5.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 20, 2019, 10:14:59 AM

Who knows? For one reason or another I suddenly was able to go along with what this symphony was doing. And so that final movement really came off.

It worked for me this time too. Quite enjoyed it this afternoon. But god, those first two movements...ravishing.

Sarge
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 10:26:04 AM
For a newcomer,I'd pick No 7,too! The haunting opening. It just draws you in! The slow movement is superb. And then there's the visceral thrill of the finale. I suppose some of that talk,(much) earlier in this thread,of Luke SkyWalker (or whatever his name is?!) and light sabres doesn't help;but it is very exciting! The Conifer cd will give your music system a good old work out. I would get the Lyrita cd first,if you're new to it. It has a darker quality. The finale could seem a little more ott,in places,in the Conifer recording. The Lyrita recording is more restrained. Or get both?! The Conifer/Albany cd is usually available very cheaply;and you could try that first! I haven't heard all the symphonies,mind (ie,No's 1,2,3,10 & 12).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 20, 2019, 10:35:56 AM
For a newcomer,I'd pick No 7,too! The haunting opening. It just draws you in! The slow movement is superb. And then there's the visceral thrill of the finale. I suppose some of that talk,(much) earlier in this thread,of Luke SkyWalker (or whatever his name is?!) and light sabres doesn't help;but it is very exciting! The Conifer cd will give your music system a good old work out. I would get the Lyrita cd first,if you're new to it. It has a darker quality. The finale could seem a little more ott,in places,in the Conifer recording. The Lyrita recording is more restrained. Or get both?! The Conifer/Albany cd is usually available very cheaply;and you could try that first! I haven't heard all the symphonies,mind (ie,No's 1,2,3,10 & 12).
No.12 has a valedictory quality to it which I find appealing.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 10:45:41 AM
The Hurwitz is a fan?!! :o ;D

The Hurwitzer is a Lloyd advocate. Here are his reviews of the composer's recordings (the review of #5 can only be accessed by those with an Insider account):

Symphony 4  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13027/?search=1) "The performance captured here, under the composer’s baton, is superb, notably clearer and more sharp-edged than Edward Downes’ otherwise worthy effort on Lyrita....do listen to this intensely beautiful, atmospheric, and joyous work."

Symphony 5  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-10029/?search=1)  "....this outstanding disc presents one of the truly great Romantic symphonies in as fine a fashion as we have any right to expect"

Symphony 7  9/9 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13026/?search=1) "....he was a very fine advocate of his own music, and this is without a doubt one of the last century’s major symphonic statements."

Symphonies 2 & 9  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-13023/?search=1) "George Lloyd’s Second Symphony is a remarkable achievement for a 19-year-old. In terms of structure, it’s loosely based on Tchaikovsky’s Sixth, with its peppy third-movement march (its tune fully worthy of the great Russian composer) and melancholy finale (bluesy rather than hysterically despairing). More importantly, the work shows Lloyd fully in command of his own personal idiom....the promise of the Second is abundantly fulfilled in the Ninth. The performances here are outstanding, among the best in Albany’s Lloyd cycle, with sonics to match."

Symphony 8  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12980/?search=1) "The symphony has three big movements, is typically colorfully scored, and sports a full range of arresting melodic ideas. This performance by the composer himself is just about ideal."

Symphonies 1 & 12  9/9 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12981/?search=1)  "The First Symphony is a pleasant, exuberant, but slightly anonymous piece in the tradition of the early 20th century English tonal school. The Twelfth, on the other hand, is clearly a work of the late 20th century, more ambitious in formal terms and scored with a full awareness of the potential of the modern orchestra. It’s melodic and harmonic character could have come from no one but Lloyd."

Symphony 3  9/8 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12983/?search=1) "Like Shostakovich’s First, written at roughly the same age, the music reveals Lloyd in command of a distinctive personal voice, composed of frankly romantic melody, contemporary harmony (with perhaps a touch of jazz to spice things up), and brilliant orchestration. In this last department, particularly, Lloyd had a real gift."

Symphony 11  10/10 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12975/?search=1) "...the Eleventh is simply chock-full of memorable tunes, arresting gestures, and brilliant orchestration. The idiom is unashamedly romantic in its grandeur and sweep, and in its concentration on the expression of human emotion."

Sarge
The Seventh "without doubt one of the last century's major symphonic statements." Well,there you are!! ;D
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 20, 2019, 10:45:48 AM
For a newcomer,I'd pick No 7,too! The haunting opening. It just draws you in! The slow movement is superb. And then there's the visceral thrill of the finale. I suppose some of that talk,(much) earlier in this thread,of Luke SkyWalker (or whatever his name is?!) and light sabres doesn't help;but it is very exciting! The Conifer cd will give your music system a good old work out. I would get the Lyrita cd first,if you're new to it. It has a darker quality. The finale could seem a little more ott,in places,in the Conifer recording. The Lyrita recording is more restrained. Or get both?! The Conifer/Albany cd is usually available very cheaply;and you could try that first! I haven't heard all the symphonies,mind (ie,No's 1,2,3,10 & 12).

Luke Skywalker? Ok. Just the association is enough to turn me off the composer.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 20, 2019, 10:52:26 AM
Luke Skywalker? Ok. Just the association is enough to turn me off the composer.


NOOOO!


Forget about him.


The Seventh is great.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 20, 2019, 10:53:10 AM
What does it have to do with Luke Skywalker, then?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 20, 2019, 10:56:07 AM
What does it have to do with Luke Skywalker, then?


A thematic similarity, if I remember correctly. Not Lloyd's fault.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 11:02:51 AM
I said it wouldn't help!! ::) ;D

vandermolen: I've been thinking of investing in the cd of his first two Piano concertos,in the last week,or so! How does the "Scapegoat" compare to the third? I understand it's a sterner,more turbulent (angry?) work? What can I expect? (I am referring to the right concerto,I hope? There are two on the cd!) I read that John Ogdon described it,thus,"The piece is a torso,a Hercules:it is unforgettable." Lloyd wrote the concerto for him,and Ogdon gave the first performance in 1964. I only just found that out,incidentally!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on March 20, 2019, 11:07:29 AM
Wow this thread has suddenly had quite the revival in just the last 10 hours or so!

By coincidence, I popped Symphony No. 1 on yesterday. It has some wonderful moments, especially the slow middle section.

Oddly enough, I find No. 4 the hardest one for me to get into atm. I can't put my finger on why. None of its tunes have yet lodged in my memory that I can recall without having to listen to the piece again, whereas something has done that in the rest of the symphonies I've heard (1, 5, 7, 11 & 12).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 20, 2019, 11:39:04 AM
I said it wouldn't help!! ::) ;D

vandermolen: I've been thinking of investing in the cd of his first two Piano concertos,in the last week,or so! How does the "Scapegoat" compare to the third? I understand it's a sterner,more turbulent (angry?) work? What can I expect? (I am referring to the right concerto,I hope? There are two on the cd!) I read that John Ogdon described it,thus,"The piece is a torso,a Hercules:it is unforgettable." Lloyd wrote the concerto for him,and Ogdon gave the first performance in 1964. I only just found that out,incidentally!
Cilgwyn. The 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto is perhaps the best and the most moving and integrated in my view. It is one of my favourite works by Lloyd, especially as performed by John Ogden. No. 3 is my other favourite (great last movement theme). I rarely listen to the others.
Hope that helps
 :)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 03:14:32 PM

A thematic similarity, if I remember correctly. Not Lloyd's fault.
I am no fan of the Star Wars franchise. It's fifties sci-fi,for me (and a little 60's). I do enjoy the music,though! I think I might have been the one who started this,I'm afraid?! I first heard the Seventh when I was quite a bit younger,and the finale does have an element of John Williams,to my ears,with all those huge climaxes,each one seeming to top the one before it. I don't have a problem with that. I love it. To me,it's a tour de force,which shows off Lloyd's mastery of the orchestra. I think it is absolutely thrilling! And what's wrong with a bit of excitement?! I seem to remember that George Lloyd has said,in interviews,that he liked to give the public what they want! (Thrilling brass,percussion). But the whole symphony is superbly structured,from beginning to end. And I love the way it ends as quietly and mysteriously,and enigmatically,as it began. Hearing the symphony for the first time,as a mature adult :-\ ::),I would probably make a bit less of the noisy bits;and playing them full blast at my parents house;even if my mother was still alive (my father is). I would be more attuned to the quieter moments,the poetry;that lovely slow movement. And the recent account on Lyrita makes more of this aspect of the symphony. The less boomy,sonics also help to temper the louder moments.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 20, 2019, 03:28:47 PM
It's a pity I brought this up,really;and I hope I haven't upset anyone here?! That said,I confess to liking and admiring the music of Korngold and feeling that Khatchaturian deserves more critical respect than he gets. Two composers who can be a bit noisy at times,and have been accused of bombast,at times (and the latter,famously,as more korn than gold!). There is allot of poetry and feeling (and tragedy) in the slower,quieter,more reflective moments of the Khatchaturian concertos,for example. I find parts of them quite moving in a really,fine performance. I have often had a tear pricking at the corner of my eye! And Gayaneh is,imho,a superb ballet score. (The Kakhidze recording badly,needs a reissue,by the way! Come on,Melodiya! ;D)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on March 20, 2019, 04:26:22 PM
No.12 has a valedictory quality to it which I find appealing.

The same can be said of No. 11.  If short, he's a very fine composer very much worth exploring.  I haven't heard a single work of his I thought was a waste of time.  No. 7 is fantastic and very intense (especially in the Edward Downes recording) so for that reason, I suggest No. 7 is the best example of Lloyd's music but the disc of No. 4, 5, 8 by Downes is the best intro.  No. 7 isn't as representative as 4, 5, and 8 are.  Regardless, a wonderful composer I always enjoy hearing.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 20, 2019, 11:24:45 PM
The same can be said of No. 11.  If short, he's a very fine composer very much worth exploring.  I haven't heard a single work of his I thought was a waste of time.  No. 7 is fantastic and very intense (especially in the Edward Downes recording) so for that reason, I suggest No. 7 is the best example of Lloyd's music but the disc of No. 4, 5, 8 by Downes is the best intro.  No. 7 isn't as representative as 4, 5, and 8 are.  Regardless, a wonderful composer I always enjoy hearing.
Largely agree. I prefer Downes's recording of Symphony 4 to the (very good) one conducted by the composer.

I agree with cilgwyn and also rate Khachaturian's music highly (all three symphonies, including the much derided No.3) as well as Korngold (Symphony, Violin Concerto, Cello Concerto).

Lloyd's 11th Symphony always reminds me of Khachaturian. Lloyd's 3rd Piano Concerto has a fine, hauntingly ominous slow movement,  symbolic of the 'knock on the door' in Nazi occupied Europe. It is quite reminiscent of a section of Alfred Newman's fine score for 'The Diary of Anne Frank'.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 21, 2019, 01:01:02 PM
Changing a bit the topic, has anyone heard this CD with his violin concertos?

(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/34061031628.jpg?1438599715)

When I listened to them some months ago, I thought they were delectable, above all the one with strings, one of his finest creations imho, prefering it above the piano concertos. I'm not saying the piano concertos are bad, just they didn't click on me as much as I wanted.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on March 21, 2019, 04:18:22 PM
Well, based on a few recommendations in this thread I listened to Lloyd's Symphony No.3.  and...well...hmm...I freaking LOVED IT!  A wonderful symphony so impressive given he was 20 years old when it was written.  This makes me feel the need to traverse his entire symphony catalog.  Highly recommended.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 21, 2019, 04:37:18 PM
Well, based on a few recommendations in this thread I listened to Lloyd's Symphony No.3.  and...well...hmm...I freaking LOVED IT!  A wonderful symphony so impressive given he was 20 years old when it was written.  This makes me feel the need to traverse his entire symphony catalog.  Highly recommended.


Yes, good stuff, isn't it? The music is extremely self-assured.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 23, 2019, 08:32:19 AM
Been enjoying this in the car today. Rachmaninov and Khachaturian came to my mind but it is still IMO a fine work:
(http://)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on March 23, 2019, 10:33:03 AM
I've yet to dive into the concertos. I know the two violin concertos are scored for just strings in one and just winds in the other, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Brian on March 23, 2019, 11:21:09 AM
Is there anything resembling a consensus on Lloyd's most successful symphony, i.e. a place to start?
Sounds like everyone else is pointing at 4 and 7. If I may offer a different point of view - I don't think I've ever heard 7, so at a bit of a disadvantage here. My intro to Lloyd was the Lyrita 3CD set of 4, 5, and 8, and I immediately hit it off with 5. It's something I listen to about twice a year for over a decade now. It's quite hard to describe because any description of it sounds stupid (part pastoral romp, part tragedy, with the full orchestra only playing together in the second half), but the parts all work together cumulatively so very well. 4 is also good.

But I would start someone off with 6. The reason is simple: it's the short one  ;D It's only like 20 minutes, and you get the full Lloyd experience, including a romantic time warp slow movement. If you like 6, then proceed on to 4 and 5, which are an hour each, and consider some of the other stuff, which is also ... well, usually also an hour each.

This answer may depend on how you plan to sample. On CD, No. 6 comes with a fun little overture and another symphony, 10, which is for wind band and not a top recommendation of anyone's. So No. 6 may be a superior starting point if you are streaming or trying it out on YouTube, but if you want to start with paying for a physical CD, maybe you should after all go with 4 and/or 5. As for me, guess it's time I tried No. 7...
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Maestro267 on March 23, 2019, 12:30:10 PM
No. 5, despite its length, is definitely on the lighter side compared with Nos. 4 & 7.

Meanwhile, I've just (as I type) come to the end of another playthrough of A Symphonic Mass. Again, an awesome work. I keep raving about the awe-inspiring conclusion of the Sanctus/Benedictus, but it's just that jaw-dropping!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 23, 2019, 03:48:42 PM
No.4 would be my choice.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2019, 01:18:57 PM
The 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto would, I think, be a good introduction to Lloyd's music. Much as I like PC 3 with its echoes of Rachmaninov and Khachaturian I think that No.1 is the more original work. It is dramatic and turbulent but approachable and with moments of intense poetry like the eloquent conclusion. It is quite short at 25 minutes. I wish that John Ogdon had recorded it as he performed at the premiere:
(http://)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 24, 2019, 03:41:48 PM
The 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto would, I think, be a good introduction to Lloyd's music. Much as I like PC 3 with its echoes of Rachmaninov and Khachaturian I think that No.1 is the more original work. It is dramatic and turbulent but approachable and with moments of intense poetry like the eloquent conclusion. It is quite short at 25 minutes. I wish that John Ogdon had recorded it as he performed at the premiere:
(http://)

As far as I remember, that concerto was the one I liked the most. The length appeared an advantage. The PC 4 is the only one I don't have. Do you know it, Jeffrey?
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on March 24, 2019, 03:44:23 PM
Is there anything resembling a consensus on Lloyd's most successful symphony, i.e. a place to start?

I think No. 11 is a great place to start.  It's where I got my start.  It is not my favorite of his symphonies...that would be No. 7 which is probably his most pessimistic...whereas 11 is transformative like many of the greatest symphonies (Beethoven 5, 9, Shosti 5, 7, Mahler 2, etc).  So it has a very wide range of emotions from strife, darkness, tenderness, mystery, satire, definitive joy.  In this you get everything of George Lloyd.  No. 4 for me has a bit too much jollity for its subject matter.  No. 5 and 8 have many of the same qualities but perhaps not as eloquently stated.  No. 7 is terse and dark.  No. 3 is wonderful also but I am new to that one compared to 11.   So to me, the No. 11 is sort of his Rach 2 or Proko 5...the best place to introduce someone to.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on March 24, 2019, 04:43:44 PM
I just purchased symphonies #4,5,6,7,8. Should receive it in a week!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2019, 10:46:25 PM
As far as I remember, that concerto was the one I liked the most. The length appeared an advantage. The PC 4 is the only one I don't have. Do you know it, Jeffrey?
Yes Cesar, - although I haven't listened to it for years but I remember that 'Scapegoat' and No.3 were my favourites. No.4 did not make much of an impression on me but maybe I should listen to it again.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2019, 10:55:45 PM
I just purchased symphonies #4,5,6,7,8. Should receive it in a week!

Excellent Paul. I don't know No.6 so well, although it is included on the new Lyrita release - the others plus 11 and 12 are my favourites.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2019, 10:57:30 PM
I think No. 11 is a great place to start.  It's where I got my start.  It is not my favorite of his symphonies...that would be No. 7 which is probably his most pessimistic...whereas 11 is transformative like many of the greatest symphonies (Beethoven 5, 9, Shosti 5, 7, Mahler 2, etc).  So it has a very wide range of emotions from strife, darkness, tenderness, mystery, satire, definitive joy.  In this you get everything of George Lloyd.  No. 4 for me has a bit too much jollity for its subject matter.  No. 5 and 8 have many of the same qualities but perhaps not as eloquently stated.  No. 7 is terse and dark.  No. 3 is wonderful also but I am new to that one compared to 11.   So to me, the No. 11 is sort of his Rach 2 or Proko 5...the best place to introduce someone to.
I agree about No.11. Oddly enough I've found No.4 quite dark in places. I need to hear 3 again as I feel that I hardly know it.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on March 24, 2019, 11:01:20 PM
I agree about No.11. Oddly enough I've found No.4 quite dark in places. I need to hear 3 again as I feel that I hardly know it.
For what it's worth, I started with #11 as well. It's the only piece I have heard so far.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2019, 05:41:57 AM
As far as I remember, that concerto was the one I liked the most. The length appeared an advantage. The PC 4 is the only one I don't have. Do you know it, Jeffrey?

Change of View!

Following the discussion here I decided the buy the George Lloyd sampler (below) dirt cheap on Amazon UK. Coincidentally it features the long (15 minutes) opening movement of Piano Concerto 4. I thought it was great. It features a soulful and highly memorable tune a few minutes in which keeps returning. As soon as the movement ended I had to play it again. So, on second thoughts Cesar, I'd recommend PC 4 at least for its engaging opening movement.
(http://)

PS the sampler itself is rather good - featuring half a photo of Margaret Rutherford on the cover.
 8)
There's a good review of the PC4 here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/George-Lloyd-Lily-leaf-Grasshopper-Transformation/dp/B019GRBP1K
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 25, 2019, 10:05:59 AM
I'm listening to the Fourth Symphony,now! I'm going to have to hear the 'Scapegoat',aren't I? And,No3! But I will resist for the time being! (I've got a sack full of empty cd packaging to cart out tonight!! :( What must the postman think?!! ??? ::) ;D) I'll put on his Piano concerto No 3*,later! I've got it on a very plain looking Conifer cassette! I've got to turn it over to hear the final movement! Just like in the good ol' days!! ::) ;D

*by George Lloyd,not the postman!!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 25, 2019, 11:18:20 AM

But I would start someone off with 6. The reason is simple: it's the short one  ;D It's only like 20 minutes, and you get the full Lloyd experience, including a romantic time warp slow movement. If you like 6, then proceed on to 4 and 5, which are an hour each, and consider some of the other stuff, which is also ... well, usually also an hour each.


The Sixth is masterly. I can find no weakness in it. It really is a thing of beauty. So, yes, as your introduction to Lloyd it certainly will work.


Another thing: 11 was a symphony I still had to listen to. After doing so, I feel I haven't yet grasped it. It seems more abstract than symphonies 3-9, focussing more on atmosphere through sonorities and orchestral colour.


I shall have to listen to it many more times (no chore).
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Brian on March 25, 2019, 01:50:01 PM
Agree with you, Johan - the 11th is one of the harder ones. I don't get it yet.

I hope Scarpia hasn't gotten perplexed/frustrated by everyone recommending every single symphony!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 25, 2019, 01:54:29 PM
Haha!


I think it's clear that most Lloydians here regard Symphony No. 7 as an absolute masterpiece, Brian...
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on March 25, 2019, 02:03:32 PM
Agree with you, Johan - the 11th is one of the harder ones. I don't get it yet.

I hope Scarpia hasn't gotten perplexed/frustrated by everyone recommending every single symphony!

Scarpia's interest has evaporated, due to perplexion, budgetary constraints, and time constraints.

Brian, I remember once you put a movement of Lloyd into a "guess this composer" thread long ago. Do you remember which one it was? I vaguely remember thinking it sounded like Rimsky-Kosakov.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on March 25, 2019, 04:45:51 PM
Another thing: 11 was a symphony I still had to listen to. After doing so, I feel I haven't yet grasped it. It seems more abstract than symphonies 3-9, focussing more on atmosphere through sonorities and orchestral colour.

Fascinating.  I found it to be a no brainier.  In fact maybe too on the nose. 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on March 25, 2019, 04:47:45 PM
Haha!
I think it's clear that most Lloydians here regard Symphony No. 7 as an absolute masterpiece, Brian...

I would agree with this assessment.  Have you heard this recording?  https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/LE%201135  Absolutely fantastic and intense. 
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 25, 2019, 05:20:54 PM
Change of View!

Following the discussion here I decided the buy the George Lloyd sampler (below) dirt cheap on Amazon UK. Coincidentally it features the long (15 minutes) opening movement of Piano Concerto 4. I thought it was great. It features a soulful and highly memorable tune a few minutes in which keeps returning. As soon as the movement ended I had to play it again. So, on second thoughts Cesar, I'd recommend PC 4 at least for its engaging opening movement.
(http://)

PS the sampler itself is rather good - featuring half a photo of Margaret Rutherford on the cover.
 8)
There's a good review of the PC4 here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/George-Lloyd-Lily-leaf-Grasshopper-Transformation/dp/B019GRBP1K

Good stuff, Jeffrey. Thanks! Now I'm curious about that concerto!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: springrite on March 25, 2019, 05:42:13 PM
Fascinating.  I found it to be a no brainier.  In fact maybe too on the nose.
No wonder I liked it...
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 25, 2019, 08:53:38 PM
I would agree with this assessment.  Have you heard this recording?  https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/LE%201135 (https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/LE%201135)  Absolutely fantastic and intense.


Of course I have. But - I prefer Lloyd's own reading on Albany, which to me packs an even more powerful punch.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2019, 11:02:23 PM
I'm listening to the Fourth Symphony,now! I'm going to have to hear the 'Scapegoat',aren't I? And,No3! But I will resist for the time being! (I've got a sack full of empty cd packaging to cart out tonight!! :( What must the postman think?!! ??? ::) ;D) I'll put on his Piano concerto No 3*,later! I've got it on a very plain looking Conifer cassette! I've got to turn it over to hear the final movement! Just like in the good ol' days!! ::) ;D

*by George Lloyd,not the postman!!

I'd like to hear your postman's piano concerto as well.  8)

 Yes, you have to hear 'Scapegoat' (it is quite short) and PC 3 and 4 which I'm just appreciating for the first time.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: cilgwyn on March 26, 2019, 04:14:39 AM
The first movement of the Fourth Symphony brings to mind war time movies with battles at sea;perhaps with Jack Hawkins,or someone,at the helm? There's a lovely,serene,slow movement,then. I used to like the Fifth best,of the two. The Fourth has taken longer to assimilate. The Fifth seems more,obviously,tuneful and,immediately,approachable. The Fourth is a more complex,darker work.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on March 26, 2019, 06:30:50 AM
The first movement of the Fourth Symphony brings to mind war time movies with battles at sea;perhaps with Jack Hawkins,or someone,at the helm? There's a lovely,serene,slow movement,then. I used to like the Fifth best,of the two. The Fourth has taken longer to assimilate. The Fifth seems more,obviously,tuneful and,immediately,approachable. The Fourth is a more complex,darker work.

I like the first movement of the 4th but to me, the rest of it just seems too jolly for my tastes.  Not that I don't like the work, just that my sensibilities are towards more serious or darker music.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 26, 2019, 03:01:17 PM
The first movement of the Fourth Symphony brings to mind war time movies with battles at sea;perhaps with Jack Hawkins,or someone,at the helm? There's a lovely,serene,slow movement,then. I used to like the Fifth best,of the two. The Fourth has taken longer to assimilate. The Fifth seems more,obviously,tuneful and,immediately,approachable. The Fourth is a more complex,darker work.
Very much agree with this and like the Jack Hawkins analogy. I wish that someone would put together a longer suite of Rawsthorne's score to 'The Cruel Sea' although I like what is available on Chandos and Silvascreen. As for GL I prefer No.4 to No.5, melodic though that is. I think that No.4 is quite a dark score although that is not the consensus here.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on March 26, 2019, 07:51:26 PM
I like the first movement of the 4th but to me, the rest of it just seems too jolly for my tastes.  Not that I don't like the work, just that my sensibilities are towards more serious or darker music.

Yes, I was certainly expecting the 4th to be an overall darker work considering its subject matter, but I soon got too swept up in the sheer joy and brio of the work to care! It seems to me like Lloyd is truly exorcising his traumas from the war in the much darker 7th symphony.

It's great to see so much enthusiasm for Lloyd springing up on this forum! Now if only concert programmers would catch on... ::)
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on March 26, 2019, 07:53:53 PM
Change of View!

Following the discussion here I decided the buy the George Lloyd sampler (below) dirt cheap on Amazon UK. Coincidentally it features the long (15 minutes) opening movement of Piano Concerto 4. I thought it was great. It features a soulful and highly memorable tune a few minutes in which keeps returning. As soon as the movement ended I had to play it again. So, on second thoughts Cesar, I'd recommend PC 4 at least for its engaging opening movement.
(http://)

PS the sampler itself is rather good - featuring half a photo of Margaret Rutherford on the cover.
 8)
There's a good review of the PC4 here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/George-Lloyd-Lily-leaf-Grasshopper-Transformation/dp/B019GRBP1K

I like PC 4 a good deal. The finale has a naggingly catchy, quintessentially Lloydian tune that you'll have stuck in your head for days!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on March 26, 2019, 11:34:24 PM
I like PC 4 a good deal. The finale has a naggingly catchy, quintessentially Lloydian tune that you'll have stuck in your head for days!

Thanks Kyle - I intend to play the whole work through later today.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: vandermolen on April 02, 2019, 07:03:47 AM
Changing a bit the topic, has anyone heard this CD with his violin concertos?

(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/34061031628.jpg?1438599715)

When I listened to them some months ago, I thought they were delectable, above all the one with strings, one of his finest creations imho, prefering it above the piano concertos. I'm not saying the piano concertos are bad, just they didn't click on me as much as I wanted.
Do you know I've had this CD for years and never recall listening to it ::). Cesar is right the Concerto for Violin and Strings is a fine work and has been a nice Lloyd discovery for me along with PC 4, which I was initially dismissive of. The Violin Concerto reminded me in places of Alwyn and Shostakovich but it is an original and characteristic work. So, thank you Cesar for alerting us to it.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: SymphonicAddict on April 02, 2019, 01:35:56 PM
Do you know I've had this CD for years and never recall listening to it ::). Cesar is right the Concerto for Violin and Strings is a fine work and has been a nice Lloyd discovery for me along with PC 4, which I was initially dismissive of. The Violin Concerto reminded me in places of Alwyn and Shostakovich but it is an original and characteristic work. So, thank you Cesar for alerting us to it.

My pleasure, Jeffrey! I hadn't realized the Alwyn echoes on it, it sounds right.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on April 03, 2019, 10:38:25 AM
I listened to the Fifth Symphony (Philharmonia/Downes on Lyrita) a few days ago, which I found nearly as impressive as the Fourth. The opening is utterly gorgeous, with a gentle, pastoral theme that contains some delicious harmonic shifts. The second movement is a solemn Corale, the third a fleet, neo-Mendelssohnian scherzo, the fourth (Lamento) is an outpouring of passion and grief that is darker than anything in the Fourth Symphony, and the finale is a thrilling, ebullient race to the finish with an ever-present snare drum goading the orchestra along (in the manner of W. Schuman’s 3rd rather than Nielsen’s 5th). Lloyd is fast becoming one of my current favorite composers!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on April 03, 2019, 12:06:12 PM
Yes, that Fifth is a masterly work! I was also amazed at its quality.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on May 12, 2019, 06:05:45 AM
I haven't seen this documentary mentioned but here is a documentary about George Lloyd called "Strong Storms and Symphonies":
https://vimeo.com/218826305
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 12, 2019, 06:16:34 AM
I haven't seen this documentary mentioned but here is a documentary about George Lloyd called "Strong Storms and Symphonies":
https://vimeo.com/218826305 (https://vimeo.com/218826305)


Thanks! Will check it out later this week!
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: kyjo on May 12, 2019, 07:45:27 AM
I haven't seen this documentary mentioned but here is a documentary about George Lloyd called "Strong Storms and Symphonies":
https://vimeo.com/218826305

Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

Continuing in my exploration of Lloyd’s music, I recently listened to the 6th Symphony (BBCNSO/Downes/Lyrita). This has the reputation of being one of Lloyd’s “lighter” symphonies, but that should not be taken as a pejorative description. It’s a wonderfully energetic, tuneful, and succinct work with a gorgeously melancholic slow movement.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 12, 2019, 09:10:09 AM
Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

Continuing in my exploration of Lloyd’s music, I recently listened to the 6th Symphony (BBCNSO/Downes/Lyrita). This has the reputation of being one of Lloyd’s “lighter” symphonies, but that should not be taken as a pejorative description. It’s a wonderfully energetic, tuneful, and succinct work with a gorgeously melancholic slow movement.


The 6th is terrific! A glorious work.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: Laal_John on May 13, 2019, 11:54:23 PM
Yes, I was certainly expecting the 4th to be an overall darker work considering its subject matter, but I soon got too swept up in the sheer joy and brio of the work to care! It seems to me like Lloyd is truly exorcising his traumas from the war in the much darker 7th symphony.

It's great to see so much enthusiasm for Lloyd springing up on this forum! Now if only concert programmers would catch on... ::)

Is the attitude still somewhat visceral towards the performances of his music? I thought we were leaving that behind these days. I've only just discovered Lloyd, somewhat hidden in plain sight all these years. I've previously immersed myself in Rachmaninoff whilst out on long walks in the countryside and love romantic music. I find George Lloyd's symphonies are an entire delight to listen too when out in nature, but in trying to find more of his work, found it to be almost placed in a corner. Good to see the popularity here is still thriving.
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: relm1 on May 14, 2019, 05:31:25 AM
Take a read of this paper about a re-assessment of the music of George Lloyd. 
https://www.georgelloyd.com/georgelloyd-v2/images/Free_Downloads/The_Swing_of_the_Pendulum.pdf
Title: Re: George Lloyd
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on May 14, 2019, 05:39:51 AM
Excellent! Thnx.