GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: tjguitar on April 15, 2007, 04:18:53 PM

Title: EJ Moeran
Post by: tjguitar on April 15, 2007, 04:18:53 PM
In my quest of branching out to more of Vernon Handley's conducted recordings (after enjoying his Bax, Bliss and Stanford on Chandos, Bantock & Simpson on Hyperion, Arnold on Conifer/DECCA; and Vaughan Williams & Elgar on EMI)

Next up was EJ Moeran.

What does everyone think of Moeran?

I recently got these chandos CDs:


(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00013BOF6.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45605354_AA240_.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/54/41/73d3eb6709a0afa995d21110._AA240_.L.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0002NRRNS.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45156637_AA240_.jpg)


I think my favorite piece is the "Rhapsody for Piano and Orchestra" on the CD with the symphony.

I also got this CD of chamber music, but have not had a chance to listen to it yet:
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00013BOFQ.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V47030133_AA240_.jpg)

I'm generally more a fan of big orchestral works than the chamber music, but I do like some of Bax's and Arnold's compositions for smaller ensembles.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Harry on April 15, 2007, 10:04:32 PM
Moeran is  a excellent composer, which I almost bought the moment these recordings you listed were released.
I was amazed by the powerful language Moeran is using, so different from his fellow composers, and yet so alike.
The violin concerto is awesome, and so is his Symphony in G minor. Some works are also recorded on Naxos but not that good as the Chandos recordings. Would like to see some more chamberworks recorded. For the chandos recording you have there is a fine example of his craft in this micro world of his.
Enjoy, and thank you for bringing him to the fore!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on April 16, 2007, 01:43:51 AM
The best ever Moeran record has just been released on CD by Lyrita.  It is Sir Adrian Boult conducting the Symphony and the Sinfonietta.  If you like the Symphony you have to hear this one. It is by far the best performance of this work, head and shoulders above all the others (although I like the historic Heward and EMI Dilkes versions too).
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Catison on April 16, 2007, 06:45:35 AM
I like the Naxos CD.  In particular, I get a thrill out of the last movement of his Sinfonietta.  For some reason it reminds me of Carter's Holiday Overture, a favorite of mine.

But looking through his recordings, I can't help but think, "Did this guy only take one photo?"
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: tjguitar on April 16, 2007, 08:38:18 AM
I wonder why Chandos didn't include Del Mar's recording of the Sinfonietta in their reissues, I guess there just wasn't room.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Robert on April 16, 2007, 11:29:31 AM
I wonder why Chandos didn't include Del Mar's recording of the Sinfonietta in their reissues, I guess there just wasn't room.

Count me in on the sinfonietta but I also like his cello concerto.....
Title: E J Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2007, 07:13:06 AM
E J Moeran's great Symphony in G minor has just won the Gramophone Magazine Award for best historic reissue and I don't think that there has been a Moeran thread here yet:

http://www.lyrita.co.uk/

Moeran is one of my very favourite composers; especially the Symphony, Cello Concerto, Violin Sonata and Sinfonietta.  The Symphony, which I have never seen performed, should be up there with the much better known Walton Symphony 1 and Vaughan Williams Symphony 4, also from the 1930s.

He had quite a sad life, injured in the First World War, a piece of shrapnel lodged in his head may have encouraged a propensity for over-indulgence in alcohol (although I manage this perfectly well without any such historical trauma ;D) He was found dead (from heart failure) in the River Kenmare in 1950.

Any views on Moeran?
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Harry on October 24, 2007, 08:01:30 AM
Nonother than that I bought his recordings on Chandos when they were released on LP.
Later on I replaced them by cd's. Why?
Because I think his compositions marvelous, and whatever I bought all impressed me mightily, and still does.
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: head-case on October 24, 2007, 09:24:58 AM
Moeran is one of my very favourite composers; especially the Symphony, Cello Concerto, Violin Sonata and Sinfonietta. 

It is actually hard for me to believe that anyone could consider Moeran to be one of his or her favorite composers!  :o
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Harry on October 24, 2007, 09:27:15 AM
Well I am pleased to meet you.
I am a Moeran admirer thank you! :)
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Montpellier on October 24, 2007, 10:53:47 AM
I wouldn't claim that Moeran is my favourite but his music is certainly engaging and that Lyrita release is a winner.  About time I bought it.  I've got by with a transfer from the LP as, well, a couple years ago, I never believed it would see the light of day on CD while Richard Itter held that catalogue so close to his chest.
 
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2007, 11:32:53 AM
It is actually hard for me to believe that anyone could consider Moeran to be one of his or her favorite composers!  :o

Really? Why?
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Mark on October 24, 2007, 11:44:05 AM
vandermolen, you are the listener I want to be ... if I wasn't so obsessed with music of the Austro-German school, and much more willing to devote greater time to exploring British 20th century composers, that is. ;D
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2007, 11:59:50 AM
vandermolen, you are the listener I want to be ... if I wasn't so obsessed with music of the Austro-German school, and much more willing to devote greater time to exploring British 20th century composers, that is. ;D

Thanks Mark, but I am a great fan of Bruckner and Mahler too!

Now get back to that baby ;D
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Mark on October 24, 2007, 12:30:56 PM
Now get back to that baby ;D

Just been feeding her. ;D


Now, when can we expect a thread from you on Rutland Boughton?
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Dundonnell on October 24, 2007, 03:33:16 PM
Another Moeran admirer here too! I would not claim that Moeran was a great composer but he did write some extremely attractive music in a romantic style which was soon to be deemed 'out of date'. He was obviously influenced by Sibelius in the symphony and by the folk music he collected as a young man. I love the symphony and greatly like the violin concerto too. I do think that the cello concerto-while pleasant enough-is a weaker work.

Anyone who likes Bax or John Ireland would probably like Moeran too. I certainly don't think that Moeran is in any way a lesser composer than Ireland and I-infinitely-prefer him to Delius. (Oh no, I am doing it again...comparing composers to the detriment of one!)

I wish that I could afford to collect multiple copies of works! I do have the Moeran symphony on both Chandos(Handley) and Naxos(Lloyd-Jones). I really don't think that I should buy the Lyrita as well-great though the performance is. (Anyway-I've just remembered that I have the Boult version on LP!! Hurrah!)

Maybe someone could explain why certain people-of whom I am certainly one(and there are others on this site :) have such an interest in and love of 20th century British music? It certainly isn't in any way an overtly nationalist thing(I am Scottish anyway) but the quintessentially British/English music of the first half of the 20th century has an appeal which must in some way strike the correct receptive chords in evoking emotions linked to our perceptions of landscape, mood etc related to our native country.

Oh... I had better stop before I get in over my head and out of my depth! It is too late at night here for such cod philosophising!!
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Mark on October 24, 2007, 10:00:29 PM
Maybe someone could explain why certain people-of whom I am certainly one(and there are others on this site :) have such an interest in and love of 20th century British music? It certainly isn't in any way an overtly nationalist thing(I am Scottish anyway) but the quintessentially British/English music of the first half of the 20th century has an appeal which must in some way strike the correct receptive chords in evoking emotions linked to our perceptions of landscape, mood etc related to our native country.

My interest in British 20th century music has grown steadily since discovering Gerald Finzi about four years ago. I've since explored Boughton, Moeran, Bax, Bliss, Britten, Warlock and the wonderful Rebecca Clark, as well as the 'big guns' like Elgar, Holst and Vaughan Williams. It's really only the 'lack' (relatively speaking) of so much 'core repertoire' in my collection that currently keeps me from making a more in-depth exploration of the works of British composers from the last century.
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2007, 02:37:41 AM
Just been feeding her. ;D


Now, when can we expect a thread from you on Rutland Boughton?

I like "The Immortal Hour" very much and there is a charming Oboe Concerto (written for his daughter I think). However, I have been less impressed with RB's symphonies. On a recent Dutton CD I was disappointed with Boughton's "Cromwell Symphony" and much preferred its companion on disc; Edgar Bainton's valedictory Third Symphony. Maybe I'll do a Bainton thread instead!
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:40:31 AM
I like "The Immortal Hour" very much and there is a charming Oboe Concerto (written for his daughter I think). However, I have been less impressed with RB's symphonies. On a recent Dutton CD I was disappointed with Boughton's "Cromwell Symphony" and much preferred its companion on disc; Edgar Bainton's valedictory Third Symphony. Maybe I'll do a Bainton thread instead!

Try Boughton's String Quartet, 'From The Welsh Hills'. Terrific stuff. :)
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2007, 02:47:09 AM


Maybe someone could explain why certain people-of whom I am certainly one(and there are others on this site :) have such an interest in and love of 20th century British music? It certainly isn't in any way an overtly nationalist thing(I am Scottish anyway) but the quintessentially British/English music of the first half of the 20th century has an appeal which must in some way strike the correct receptive chords in evoking emotions linked to our perceptions of landscape, mood etc related to our native country.

Oh... I had better stop before I get in over my head and out of my depth! It is too late at night here for such cod philosophising!!

I think that you have explained the appeal of much early/mid 20th century music above. Like you, I am no nationalist but the music of VW, Moeran, Bax, Finzi, Ireland, Rubbra etc has a unique appeal for me. I think that it has something to do with the English (sorry British!) landscape. I love walking in the countryside and invariably have some music by those composers running through my head.  Being interested in history also has something to do with it and I wonder what those Henry Wood Proms were like in the inter-war period when the music of those composers featured regularly. I guess it's a bit of a wistful nostalgia trip but VW, Bax etc do provide something of an antidote to a society whose heroes are the likes of "Ant and Dec" and Chantelle from "Big Brother" (not that I watch such tripe you understand!)

I have rambled incoherently, so enough for now ;D




Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 02:48:47 AM
I think that you have explained the appeal of much early/mid 20th century music above. Like you, I am no nationalist but the music of VW, Moeran, Bax, Finzi, Ireland, Rubbra etc has a unique appeal for me. I think that it has something to do with the English (sorry British!) landscape. I love walking in the countryside and invariably have some music by those composers running through my head.  Being interested in history also has something to do with it and I wonder what those Henry Wood Proms were like in the inter-war period when the music of those composers featured regularly. I guess it's a bit of a wistful nostalgia trip but VW, Bax etc do provide something of an antidote to a society whose heroes are the likes of "Ant and Dec" and Chantelle from "Big Brother" (not that I watch such tripe you understand!)

With you all the way on this. :)
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2007, 02:49:56 AM
Try Boughton's String Quartet, 'From The Welsh Hills'. Terrific stuff. :)

Guess what. I have that CD (Hyperion), someone gave it to me as a present but I have not listed to it properly. I shall do so. Thanks Mark.

Jeffrey
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Hector on October 25, 2007, 02:53:12 AM
The Beeb were forever airing the Sinfonietta, at one time, usually a in-house performance from one of their regional orchestras or the Heward recording, which must sound dated, now.

It just sort of went through me without touching the sides but I still went out and bought David Lloyd-Jones Naxos disc and became enthralled.

I suspect that he is as good as Bax, perhaps better, in some respects, because, to my ear, Moeran's musical argument is tighter.

Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Montpellier on October 25, 2007, 03:37:02 AM
....and I-infinitely-prefer him to Delius. (Oh no, I am doing it again...comparing composers to the detriment of one!)
I have no doubt about who was the more original but they're both fine!  It's a "fact" that people either like or dislike Delius with no ground between, so they say!

Quote
Maybe someone could explain why certain people-of whom I am certainly one(and there are others on this site :) have such an interest in and love of 20th century British music? It certainly isn't in any way an overtly nationalist thing(I am Scottish anyway) but the quintessentially British/English music of the first half of the 20th century has an appeal which must in some way strike the correct receptive chords in evoking emotions linked to our perceptions of landscape, mood etc related to our native country.
Because it's listenable and gently adventurous? ...which is more than can be said for most music composed in the first half of the 20th C.   I'm not saying there was no nice music elsewhere but it has to be sought out.

:) 



Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Dundonnell on October 25, 2007, 03:58:47 AM
I like "The Immortal Hour" very much and there is a charming Oboe Concerto (written for his daughter I think). However, I have been less impressed with RB's symphonies. On a recent Dutton CD I was disappointed with Boughton's "Cromwell Symphony" and much preferred its companion on disc; Edgar Bainton's valedictory Third Symphony. Maybe I'll do a Bainton thread instead!

We are getting off the subject of the thread but since it doesn't look we are getting a Rutland Boughton thread-do you know the 2nd and 3rd symphonies?
I suspect that you may know the 3rd since Hyperion coupled it with the Oboe Concerto. However there is a BBC Radio Classics CD with Symphony No.2 "Deirde"-(A Celtic Symphony) and Symphony No.3 with the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Edward Downes. Both symphonies are attractive and tuneful, if no masterpieces, and much better worked out than the early Cromwell Symphony, which I admit was disappointing.

I wonder why the BBC gave up on that series? I managed to collect the Boughton, the Bliss Violin Concerto played by Alfredo Campoli coupled with the Ballet "The Lady of Shalott", the Rubbra 4th symphony(Handley) coupled with the marvellous Piano Concerto(why no modern recording?) and cello Soliloquy(Malcolm Binns and Raphael Sommer respectively), Robert Simpson's Piano Concerto-played by John Ogden no less, coupled with Rawsthorne's 2nd Piano Concerto and double piano concerto in which Ogden is joined by his wife Brenda Lucas, and the Rawsthorne Violin Concerti played by Theo Olof and Manoug Parikian.

The series was issued by Carlton Classics and promised to make available lost treasures from the BBC archives. The BBC Legends series is fantastic but does focus on much more mainstream repertoire in classic performances.

Anyway, sorry to have strayed so far from Moeran!!
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 25, 2007, 04:14:59 AM
We are getting off the subject of the thread but since it doesn't look we are getting a Rutland Boughton thread-do you know the 2nd and 3rd symphonies?
I suspect that you may know the 3rd since Hyperion coupled it with the Oboe Concerto. However there is a BBC Radio Classics CD with Symphony No.2 "Deirde"-(A Celtic Symphony) and Symphony No.3 with the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Edward Downes. Both symphonies are attractive and tuneful, if no masterpieces, and much better worked out than the early Cromwell Symphony, which I admit was disappointing.

I wonder why the BBC gave up on that series? I managed to collect the Boughton, the Bliss Violin Concerto played by Alfredo Campoli coupled with the Ballet "The Lady of Shalott", the Rubbra 4th symphony(Handley) coupled with the marvellous Piano Concerto(why no modern recording?) and cello Soliloquy(Malcolm Binns and Raphael Sommer respectively), Robert Simpson's Piano Concerto-played by John Ogden no less, coupled with Rawsthorne's 2nd Piano Concerto and double piano concerto in which Ogden is joined by his wife Brenda Lucas, and the Rawsthorne Violin Concerti played by Theo Olof and Manoug Parikian.

The series was issued by Carlton Classics and promised to make available lost treasures from the BBC archives. The BBC Legends series is fantastic but does focus on much more mainstream repertoire in classic performances.

Anyway, sorry to have strayed so far from Moeran!!

I do know the Boughton No 3 but not No 2.  BBC Radio Classics got generally very poor reviews. I think that they often deserved better. Like you I collected the Rubbra No 4, Bliss Violin Concerto but also a very good Hymnus Paradisi from Gloucester Cathedral, Morning Heroes with Richard Baker, VW's Pilgrim's Progress adapted for radio, Bantock's Pagan Symphony with Bax Northern Ballads and a v interesting Vaughan Williams Sancta Civitas (a masterpiece) with Symphony 5 (BBC SO Rozhdestvensky)+ Boult conducting Bliss's Music for Strings and Moeran's Sinfonietta (which brings us back to Moeran!!) I think that they now fetch very high prices as they are so rare.
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 07:37:10 AM
Guess what. I have that CD (Hyperion), someone gave it to me as a present but I have not listed to it properly. I shall do so. Thanks Mark.

Jeffrey

Yep, that's the one. Only, I got it dirt cheap as a Helios reissue. ;)

What say we just open a single, British 20th century composers thread? Think we had one on the old forum. :)
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Guido on October 25, 2007, 10:21:31 AM
Mark, You would probably like the Moeran cello concerto - the only available recording is Wallfish, but he does a really decent job of this one. IMO its not as good as the Finzi, but its still great. I assume you have heard the Bliss cello concerto...?
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: Mark on October 25, 2007, 11:03:52 AM
Mark, You would probably like the Moeran cello concerto - the only available recording is Wallfish, but he does a really decent job of this one. IMO its not as good as the Finzi, but its still great. I assume you have heard the Bliss cello concerto...?

I've heard neither cello concerto, sadly. The Bliss Piano Concerto, however, I am familiar with. :)
Title: Re: E J Moeran
Post by: tjguitar on November 10, 2007, 09:32:16 PM
Quote
Maybe someone could explain why certain people-of whom I am certainly one(and there are others on this site Smiley have such an interest in and love of 20th century British music? It certainly isn't in any way an overtly nationalist thing(I am Scottish anyway) but the quintessentially British/English music of the first half of the 20th century has an appeal which must in some way strike the correct receptive chords in evoking emotions linked to our perceptions of landscape, mood etc related to our native country.

I couldn't really tell you what appeals to me about the music....I'm a 22 year old American, I've been to England a few times, but never had the urge to move their or anything. :) I loved the FILM music from Bax, Arnold, Vaughan Williams, Bliss etc that the late David Wishart produced for his Cloud Nine label, later reissued on Silva America. Since I liked those compositions, I then decided to check out their "classical" compositions.  Rest is history....
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: jowcol on October 09, 2008, 04:14:59 AM
I know that I'm coming late into this thread, but I just want to chime in and say that the G Minor Symphony, for me, is one of the great 20th Century symphonies, and one that I'll never tire of. 

I'd also rank the Handley  over the David Lloyd Jones version on Naxos, but I've not heard the Boult version. 

For those of you who are interested in another take on this symphony, you might want to check out this live recording with the Shrewsbury Symphony Orchestra conducted by Andrew Rose.  It is not a professional recording, but I found it listenable enough, and it was my first introduction to this work.  It is also free for download as mp3, as long as you don't try to make money on it.

http://www.moeran.com/Audio/Symphony.html
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 09, 2008, 05:48:14 AM
I know that I'm coming late into this thread, but I just want to chime in and say that the G Minor Symphony, for me, is one of the great 20th Century symphonies, and one that I'll never tire of. 

I'd also rank the Handley  over the David Lloyd Jones version on Naxos, but I've not heard the Boult version. 

For those of you who are interested in another take on this symphony, you might want to check out this live recording with the Shrewsbury Symphony Orchestra conducted by Andrew Rose.  It is not a professional recording, but I found it listenable enough, and it was my first introduction to this work.  It is also free for download as mp3, as long as you don't try to make money on it.

http://www.moeran.com/Audio/Symphony.html

I agree with you about the Symphony and my next favourite work is the Cello Concerto (Boult/Coetmore on Lyrita). I like the newish Chandos reissue with the Cello Concerto and Violin Concerto coupled together (pictured above, with the flock of birds on the cover).

The Moeran website is worth a visit:

http://www.moeran.com/index2.html

CD below is must buy for Moeran fans.



Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 09, 2008, 06:07:30 AM
I love Moeran. Yes, that Symphony is one of the great poetic masterpieces of the 20th century and among the most moving responses to the First World War, the consequences of which, mentally and physically, Moeran had to live with for the rest of his short life.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 09, 2008, 03:56:32 PM
I love Moeran. Yes, that Symphony is one of the great poetic masterpieces of the 20th century and among the most moving responses to the First World War, the consequences of which, mentally and physically, Moeran had to live with for the rest of his short life.

Yes, absolutely true. The climax of the Cello Concerto is, I believe, Moeran's final statement of the musical ideas which were so dear to him. Very moving, especially in the performance by Peers Coetmore with Boult on Lyrita. Her playing might not be so polished as on the Chandos recording but it is more deeply felt (Coetmore was Moeran's wife).

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: drogulus on October 09, 2008, 04:56:54 PM


For those of you who are interested in another take on this symphony, you might want to check out this live recording with the Shrewsbury Symphony Orchestra conducted by Andrew Rose.  It is not a professional recording, but I found it listenable enough, and it was my first introduction to this work.  It is also free for download as mp3, as long as you don't try to make money on it.

http://www.moeran.com/Audio/Symphony.html

     Thanks, jowcol. I'm downloading now. This composer gets mentioned so often I wonder why I haven't investigated him before now.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Moldyoldie on June 30, 2009, 07:26:39 AM
[Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?"]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EXCM74QTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Moeran: Violin Concerto; Lonely Waters; Whythorne's Shadow
Lydia Mordkovitch, violin (in concerto)
Ulster Orchestra
Vernon Handley, cond.

Moeran: Cello Concerto
Raphael Wallfisch, cello
Bouremouth Sinfonietta
Norman Del Mar, cond.
CHANDOS


This is my introduction to E. J. Moeran (1894-1950) whom I first read about recently and whose music was described as being firmly entrenched in the "cowpat" school of twentieth century British music, a term derogatorally coined by English serialist composer Elisabeth Lutyens to describe the more idyllically inclined music of Ralph Vaughan Williams, Gerald Finzi, Hubert Parry, and the like.  Yes, the music here is nothing if not evocative of British and Irish vistas abetted by frequent none-too-subtle allusions to inherently familiar folk melodies and rhythms.  One can choose to either love this music for its simple summonings or be aloof to its seeming ubiquity and triteness; there's certainly nothing threatening nor overtly challenging to be heard.

The Violin Concerto of 1937 is probably the most attractive and substantive work here -- three varying movements traversing both a soberly Romantic and homespun musical landscape.  Soloist Lydia Mordkovitch produces a somewhat roughhewn sonority, especially in the lower register, but still displays an appropriately sweet-sounding rumination bookending the folksy jauntiness found in the middle movement.  In painting this beautiful and amiable picture, she's very well-balanced with the vividly recorded Ulster Orchestra led by Vernon Handley.

Handley and the Ulster also perform the near contemporaneous Lonely Waters and Whythorne's Shadow, the latter's namesake being an Elizabethan-era composer -- together representing about fifteen minutes of flowing, lovely, and mostly innocuous musical buffer.

The program ends with the Cello Concerto, a later work from around the end of World War II.  Soloist Raphael Wallfisch is accompanied by the Bournemouth Sinfonietta led by Norman Del Mar in a recording originally released a few years previous to the above in the mid-1980s and compellingly appended here to make for this chock-full 2004 re-release.  It's perhaps too easy to say this is musically more of the same as its earlier violin counterpart -- a beautiful and pastorally inspired rumination sandwiching and infused with some lilting Irish folk stylings, this time featuring the deeply rich sonority of Wallfisch's instrument.  If, perchance, there's an actual "expression" to be heard in this score, it's mostly latent in this performance, but it melds well with this uniformly peaceable and amiable program -- one, with small effort, I happened to take delight in this particular morning.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: schweitzeralan on June 30, 2009, 07:48:37 AM
In my quest of branching out to more of Vernon Handley's conducted recordings (after enjoying his Bax, Bliss and Stanford on Chandos, Bantock & Simpson on Hyperion, Arnold on Conifer/DECCA; and Vaughan Williams & Elgar on EMI)

Next up was EJ Moeran.

What does everyone think of Moeran?

I recently got these chandos CDs:


(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00013BOF6.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45605354_AA240_.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/54/41/73d3eb6709a0afa995d21110._AA240_.L.jpg)(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0002NRRNS.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45156637_AA240_.jpg)


I think my favorite piece is the "Rhapsody for Piano and Orchestra" on the CD with the symphony.

I also got this CD of chamber music, but have not had a chance to listen to it yet:
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00013BOFQ.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V47030133_AA240_.jpg)

I'm generally more a fan of big orchestral works than the chamber music, but I do like some of Bax's and Arnold's compositions for smaller ensembles.

Good thread with interesting, informed comments.  I simply wish to add my name on the list of those who recognize Moeran as a significant English composer.  Many similarities to Bax, Ireland, Bridge, et. al., which has been acknowledged on the thread.  Moeran follows essentially the Delian line more than the Elgarian.  Many good works; however, it is the "Symphony In G" which is his masterpiece.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Lethevich on June 30, 2009, 09:33:54 AM
Thanks for the review, Moldyoldie. I have heard almost no Moeran, and can't particularly remember the famous symphony, which for a 20th century tonal music fan is almost heretical. Must investigate further...

Those Chandos discs are unusually well presented - even better than their recent Bax. I hope that this continues, as classical music doesn't need crappy cover art - it simply requires labels who hire professional rather than amateur graphic designers.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2009, 11:16:35 AM
The Symphony is being performed at the London Proms this year.

Here's the link:

http://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/bbc-proms/prom09/default.aspx
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: tjguitar on June 30, 2009, 02:29:46 PM
Thanks for the review, Moldyoldie. I have heard almost no Moeran, and can't particularly remember the famous symphony, which for a 20th century tonal music fan is almost heretical. Must investigate further...

Those Chandos discs are unusually well presented - even better than their recent Bax. I hope that this continues, as classical music doesn't need crappy cover art - it simply requires labels who hire professional rather than amateur graphic designers.

I'm really disapppointed with the NAXOS cover art for most of the classical CDs that I have.


I may have said this years ago, but its unfortunate that Chandos didnt include the Del Mar Sinfonietta in those reissues....
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Dundonnell on July 01, 2009, 02:29:21 AM
The Symphony is being performed at the London Proms this year.

Here's the link:

http://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/bbc-proms/prom09/default.aspx

A programme of British music conducted by Vassily Sinaisky? Extraordinary! Never thought of him as a conductor interested in British music.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2009, 01:14:40 PM
A programme of British music conducted by Vassily Sinaisky? Extraordinary! Never thought of him as a conductor interested in British music.

Have just booked up for the Prom on 23rd July - Moeran's Symphony, first (and probably last!) time I shall hear this in concert-with Finzi and Elgar's Second Symphony it should be a great concert.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Brian on July 11, 2009, 07:48:57 PM
Have just booked up for the Prom on 23rd July - Moeran's Symphony, first (and probably last!) time I shall hear this in concert-with Finzi and Elgar's Second Symphony it should be a great concert.
Wow; wish I could be there. On my recent road trip I partook in Moeran's Sinfonietta - very favorably impressed, though I thought the last two movements did not rise to the level of the first.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2009, 11:58:07 PM
Wow; wish I could be there. On my recent road trip I partook in Moeran's Sinfonietta - very favorably impressed, though I thought the last two movements did not rise to the level of the first.

The Sinfonietta is good - first Moeran I heard. Boult's Lyrita performance is the one to have. Do you know the Cello Concerto? This and the Symphony are his masterpieces I think. The Violin Concerto is better known but I find the Cello Concerto to be the greater work.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on July 24, 2009, 11:23:41 PM
It was a great experience to attend the Prom concert in London last Thursday and hear the Moeran Symphony live for the first (and possibly last time - it was last performed at the Proms in 1938!) Vassily Sinaisky and the BBC Philharmonic gave a wonderfully cogent performance which even my 21 year old daughter (attending her first classical concert) enjoyed, despite announcing, on leaving home for the concert, that she was bringing her ear-plugs with her.

It was a really good concert, which also featured Finzi's Grand Fantasia and Toccata and a fine performance of Symphony No 2 by Elgar.  Yes, it was really interesting to hear a Russian conductor in these works - I have an interesting CD of Svetlanov conducting Symphony No 2 by Elgar with the USSR Symphony Orchestra - a fine, if rather unidiomatic performance.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 25, 2009, 12:03:51 AM
It was a great experience to attend the Prom concert in London last Thursday and hear the Moeran Symphony live for the first (and possibly last time - it was last performed at the Proms in 1938!) Vassily Sinaisky and the BBC Philharmonic gave a wonderfully cogent performance which even my 21 year old daughter (attending her first classical concert) enjoyed, despite announcing, on leaving home for the concert, that she was bringing her ear-plugs with her.

It was a really good concert, which also featured Finzi's Grand Fantasia and Toccata and a fine performance of Symphony No 2 by Elgar.  Yes, it was really interesting to hear a Russian conductor in these works - I have an interesting CD of Svetlanov conducting Symphony No 2 by Elgar with the USSR Symphony Orchestra - a fine, if rather unidiomatic performance.

Thanks, Jeffrey! I am slightly envious... But I am going to use the BBC iPlayer NOW! The concert can still be heard for a few days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007v097/episodes/player
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2009, 12:35:38 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey! I am slightly envious... But I am going to use the BBC iPlayer NOW! The concert can still be heard for a few days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007v097/episodes/player
Thanks Johan!

I am trying to see if any newspapers review the concert today.  I was very moved to finally hear the Moeran live, especially in a great performance (I was more aware than before of the influence of Vaughan Williams Symphony No 4 in this work) - one of my very favourite works. Now bring on Miaskovsky (Festival Hall London April 2010) and Braga Santos (?!!!)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 25, 2009, 12:50:40 AM
Thanks Johan!

I am trying to see if any newspapers review the concert today.  I was very moved to finally hear the Moeran live, especially in a great performance (I was more aware than before of the influence of Vaughan Williams Symphony No 4 in this work) - one of my very favourite works. Now bring on Miaskovsky (Festival Hall London April 2010) and Braga Santos (?!!!)

I am in the final few minutes of the Moeran. Yes, a great performance. Sinaisky accentuates both the beauty and the harshness very tellingly, I think. I was reminded of RVW too, more strongly than before, especially in the first movement (though not the 4th in particular).

Next year - Brian, Myaskovsky and Braga Santos, in ONE concert. Yes!

Addition: according to the presenter: 1) Sinaisky loves the Moeran symphony for its 'drama' and 'sincerity' and 2) the BBC Philharmonic will be performing the work again next season at their home base in Manchester (Bridgewater Hall).
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on July 25, 2009, 01:53:26 AM
I am in the final few minutes of the Moeran. Yes, a great performance. Sinaisky accentuates both the beauty and the harshness very tellingly, I think. I was reminded of RVW too, more strongly than before, especially in the first movement (though not the 4th in particular).

Next year - Brian, Myaskovsky and Braga Santos, in ONE concert. Yes!

Addition: according to the presenter: 1) Sinaisky loves the Moeran symphony for its 'drama' and 'sincerity' and 2) the BBC Philharmonic will be performing the work again next season at their home base in Manchester (Bridgewater Hall).

That's really interesting Johan - it would be great if they could record the Symphony - but maybe that is hoping for too much.  In fact we were sitting right next to the BBC 4 (TV) announcer and crew. Just before the end of each piece there was considerable clattering as the cameras were moved about and the TV announcer got back in his place  ::)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Guido on July 26, 2009, 04:01:16 AM
I really wanted to go to this but couldn't... When will it be on BBC4 TV?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 10, 2012, 03:57:34 AM
I thought there had to be a Moeran thread, yes of course I love his work, I find it very vital and well argued, and very, very beautiful.

I know most of his orchestral works and some of his chamber works, and thoroughly recommend the Chandos recordings.

One thing which I find very interesting about Moeran is that he seemed to write in the same style and at the same level of inspiration throughout his career. For example it is thought that one string quartet dates from early in his career (1920s) and the other from later (1940s), and yet they sound pretty much the same stylistically. Only in the late orchestral works like the Sinfonietta or the Serenade, does he seem to be moving to a more neoclassical style.

Finally does anyone here know the sonata for two violins? There's a free mp3 on the web somewhere, do a search. It's a great work too!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on June 10, 2012, 06:43:35 AM
I thought there had to be a Moeran thread, yes of course I love his work, I find it very vital and well argued, and very, very beautiful.

I know most of his orchestral works and some of his chamber works, and thoroughly recommend the Chandos recordings.

One thing which I find very interesting about Moeran is that he seemed to write in the same style and at the same level of inspiration throughout his career. For example it is thought that one string quartet dates from early in his career (1920s) and the other from later (1940s), and yet they sound pretty much the same stylistically. Only in the late orchestral works like the Sinfonietta or the Serenade, does he seem to be moving to a more neoclassical style.

Finally does anyone here know the sonata for two violins? There's a free mp3 on the web somewhere, do a search. It's a great work too!

Interesting point about Moeran's style.  I don't know the sonata you mention. My favourites are the great Symphony and the wonderful Cello Concerto. I prefer the Coetmore/Boult performance on Lyrita to the Chandos.  The cello playing in the Chandos is more polished, but there is something very special about the Lyrita, performed by Moeran's widow - the marriage was not very happy by the sound of it (I don't mean by the sound of the recording!) but there is something very moving and heartfelt about Coetmore's playing, even though she was not a regular performer by 1969 when the recording was made.  Boult's accompaniment is wonderful.  I find the climax of the work to be overwhelming.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on July 12, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
Anyone caught up with Martin Yates' 'realisation of fragments of the Second Symphony' yet?

I've just listened to the first BBC broadcast and I was blown away, it's a great work, it has all the brio and vim of the Sinfonietta, coupled with the large-scale design and depth of the 1st Symphony. Yates has done very well to construct something as connected as this from what were quite sketchy sketches (500 out of 1200 bars are in the sketches, the rest is either Yates using these to make further music, or Yates composing in the style of Moeran).

I was particularly impressed with the development of the 1st movement, a sort of Celtic fairyland seascape created by beautiful liquid textures and intricate cross-rhythms, but unlike the seascape of the slow movement of No.1, this is underwater. If I remember rightly Lir was the Irish god of of the sea, so this is Lir's palace or whatever :-) The interesting thing is that Yates says in his BBC 3 talk that he had to develop the material of the 1st movement more fully than the sketches did, so I wonder if this passage is in the sketches, or is Yates composing.

The other particularly impressive part of this work is the finale, where Yates only had a few bars to go on. It works amazingly well and sounds very authentic.

I might write to Yates to thank him for it and suggest he start composing in his own right!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 13, 2012, 12:57:24 AM
Thanks for reminding me - I'll see if I can squeeze in a first listen...
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on April 05, 2013, 08:29:43 AM
Super new CD in all respects.  Would be an ideal introduction to his lyrical, soulful music if you don't know it. The Cello Concerto is, along with the Symphony, Moeran's finest work IMHO and worthy to stand alongside those of Elgar and Miaskovsky.

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Brian on April 05, 2013, 12:42:02 PM
Super new CD in all respects.  Would be an ideal introduction to his lyrical, soulful music if you don't know it. The Cello Concerto is, along with the Symphony, Moeran's finest work IMHO and worthy to stand alongside those of Elgar and Miaskovsky.
and don't forget Weinberg


I greatly enjoyed the Cello Concerto on first listen and will probably try it again next week. I don't know if the emotional stakes are quite as high as in Elgar and Weinberg, but the lyrical writing is superb.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on April 05, 2013, 10:55:19 PM
and don't forget Weinberg


I greatly enjoyed the Cello Concerto on first listen and will probably try it again next week. I don't know if the emotional stakes are quite as high as in Elgar and Weinberg, but the lyrical writing is superb.

Thank you. I am a great admirer of Weinberg but don't know his Cello Concerto - clearly I need to rectify this! The new Naxos of Moeran's Cello Concerto is beautifully played and recorded. It is better played than the Coetmore/Boult recording but the climax of the last movement - a very moving love song, is not as overwhelming in the new recording (after all Coetmore was Moeran's wife, although the marriage was not a happy one). I would not be without the Boult/Coetmore Lyrita recording which is the most deeply fely of the three now available. Another fine thing about the Naxos CD is the fine couplings - I had not realised that there was an (optional) vocal section to 'Lonely Waters' (c. 1931) and was surprised when the Soprano came in with the folk song!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on December 31, 2013, 05:25:07 PM
Looks interesting - forthcoming release.

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on December 31, 2013, 06:29:39 PM
Looks interesting - forthcoming release.



Nice. I still have yet to acquire the earlier Falletta recording, but I have bought Little's new recording of his Violin Concerto, so it will be interesting to hear this work with some new ears and Little as the soloist certainly won't hinder the performance! 8)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 12, 2014, 01:22:05 AM
The JoAnn Falletta Naxos CD is wonderful in all respects. I was especially struck by her version of Overture to a Masque, played with much more urgency than in other recordings and oddly moving in its wartime context - reminding me of Lilburn's Aotearoa Overture. The Rhapsodies and In the Mountain Country are also given very fine performances and a terrific recording. A must for Moeran fans and a great introduction to his soulful, moving and atmospheric music.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2014, 01:29:59 AM
That all sounds very appealing, Jeffrey. The 'Overture for a Masque' has always been a favourite of mine. If this new performance is better than Handley's, it really must be something. (Boult's (on Lyrita) is far too slow and ponderous, in my opinion.)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 12, 2014, 07:11:14 AM
That all sounds very appealing, Jeffrey. The 'Overture for a Masque' has always been a favourite of mine. If this new performance is better than Handley's, it really must be something. (Boult's (on Lyrita) is far too slow and ponderous, in my opinion.)

Hi Johan, I am sure that you will love the new version of the Overture - much greater urgency than the Boult and all I can say is that I did not really appreciate how good this work is until JoAnn Falletta's performance, but the excellent recording helps too. The Overture is seen as a 'light' jolly work to cheer people up in the war - but it has much greater depth than I appreciated - the whole CD is very involving.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2014, 07:14:33 AM
The nice thing about the Overture is that it seems to encapsulate the whole of Moeran in only a few minutes - the melancholy and the joy.


P.S. I'm going to buy this later tonight (download).
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 12, 2014, 11:23:58 AM
The nice thing about the Overture is that it seems to encapsulate the whole of Moeran in only a few minutes - the melancholy and the joy.


P.S. I'm going to buy this later tonight (download).

Yes, you are right about it encapsulating the essence of Moeran - as with Lilburn and the Aotearoa Overture.

Let us know what you think. Hope it lives up to expectations.  :)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2014, 01:10:07 PM
Listening to this as I write... The 'Overture to a Masque' is, indeed, done very well, Jeffrey. Falletta is energetic, but doesn't rush the lyricism.


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61HhZb0J-dL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 12, 2014, 01:40:05 PM
Listening to this as I write... The 'Overture to a Masque' is, indeed, done very well, Jeffrey. Falletta is energetic, but doesn't rush the lyricism.


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61HhZb0J-dL._SS500_.jpg)

Let us know what you make of the rest of the programme Johan. I have just got to the 1943 Rhapsody for the umpteenth time. I am especially fond of the short Rhapsody No. 1 from 1922, which also seems to encapsulate the essence of Moeran. Oops, I think I meant the 1924/41 Rhapsody No. 2 - they are all good!




Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 12, 2014, 04:51:53 PM
Funny thing is, I have listened to most of Moeran's work, inc hard to find pieces like the piano works and the folk-song settings, and the Two Violin Sonata

[http://www.moeran.net/Audio/Sonata_for_Two_Violins.html]

But I've never heard The Overture to a Masque.

I better download it.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2014, 04:54:14 PM
Here's the Handley:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JudvDOjCqss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JudvDOjCqss)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2014, 04:58:37 PM
Moeran is a bit hard for me to get into. I own all of Handley's recordings on Chandos. Could any of you guys who really enjoy his music point out some characteristics of his music that make him unique?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2014, 05:05:23 PM
I'm going to bed, as it is already late here (2am).


A few things about Moeran. He's a Delian, and a Sibelian, (though not as strongly, in my opinion). His harmonies resemble those of Delius, but with a twist - Moeran is much more melancholy and bittersweet. And there is no eroticism in his music. His music has gusto, pain, ebullience, and a strong sense of landscape (which connects him to both Delius and RVW). There is also the influence of folksong in his work (more Irish than English).


And now - sleep!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2014, 05:06:49 PM
I'm going to bed, as it is already late here (2am).


A few things about Moeran. He's a Delian, and a Sibelian, (though not as strongly, in my opinion). His harmonies resemble those of Delius, but with a twist - Moeran is much more melchancoly and bittersweet. And there is no eroticism in his music. His music has gusto, pain, ebullience, and a strong sense of landscape (which connects him to both Delius and RVW). There is also the influence of folksong in his work (more Irish than English).


And now - sleep!

Thanks, Johan! Goodnight my fellow Delian! 8)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 12, 2014, 06:27:56 PM
Moeran is a bit hard for me to get into. I own all of Handley's recordings on Chandos. Could any of you guys who really enjoy his music point out some characteristics of his music that make him unique?

What I like about him him is his consistently high quality, almost everyting he wrote is worth listening to, and what make it worth listening to is the very strong sense you get of musical movement: at the end of a Moeran piece you really get a sense of a musical journey, an emotional narrative, not just a whole lot of notes that happened one after the other.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2014, 06:46:56 PM
What I like about him him is his consistently high quality, almost everyting he wrote is worth listening to, and what make it worth listening to is the very strong sense you get of musical movement: at the end of a Moeran piece you really get a sense of a musical journey, an emotional narrative, not just a whole lot of notes that happened one after the other.

Which is exactly how I felt about Brenton Broadstock's symphonies, but do not feel from Moeran's music. Strange stuff.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 12, 2014, 08:13:04 PM
And I had the opposite reaction!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2014, 08:32:38 PM
And I had the opposite reaction!

I know that's why I brought it up. ;) 8) But, seriously, I'm going to listen to some of Moeran's music tomorrow.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2014, 08:42:45 PM
Any works I should try first? How about the Violin Concerto? I have Little's performance with A. Davis that was just released a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 13, 2014, 04:37:27 AM
Any works I should try first? How about the Violin Concerto? I have Little's performance with A. Davis that was just released a few weeks ago.

Agree with Johan about the appeal of Moeran. There is an underlying sadness and nostalgic regret in much of the music, which I find appealing as is the synthesis of Bax, Walton, Sibelius and Delius.

Personally I prefer the Cello Concerto but it is perhaps less immediately approachable. I think that the new Naxos CD is a good place to start. The Symphony is wonderful as is the Sinfonietta (coupled together on Naxos and Lyrita). CD below is nice.

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 13, 2014, 04:51:25 AM
That's certainly a 'nice' CD! "Lonely Waters" is among Moeran's most haunting pieces and gets a wonderful performance.


Btw, I have now listened to the whole Naxos CD. It's good. The outstanding works are, in my opinion, the Overture and the Second Rhapsody. The unnumbered, concertante Rhapsody in F sharp major is a very curious thing, in which Moeran foreshadows the peroration of the "Overture for a Masque", whilst at the same time 'channeling' Ravel in Spanish-cum-Valse mode...
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 13, 2014, 06:52:12 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. I'll check out the Cello Concerto at some point.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on January 13, 2014, 12:30:39 PM
Yep, the Overture is vintage Moeran

 :)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 13, 2014, 12:35:25 PM
I listened to the Symphony again, Boult's performance. What a moving work! Those moments where the 'veil is lifted', so to speak, and you can hear utter loneliness. Deeply touching.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 13, 2014, 01:49:39 PM
I listened to the Symphony again, Boult's performance. What a moving work! Those moments where the 'veil is lifted', so to speak, and you can hear utter loneliness. Deeply touching.

Totally agree Johan and also about the new Naxos. Boult gets the 'Tapiola-like' section in the finale just right in a more integrated performance than any other. I also have a soft spot for the Dilkes and the fine old Leslie Heward version, recently reissued on Dutton. I especially like the end of the second movement of the Symphony, which is very moving.

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 14, 2014, 01:48:22 AM
My three favourite moments of the symphony are 1) the lyrical passage just before the close of the first movement (with that high horn), 2) the string passage just after the opening of the final movement and 3) the passionate descending sigh of the strings just before the coda.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 14, 2014, 02:57:22 AM
My three favourite moments of the symphony are 1) the lyrical passage just before the close of the first movement (with that high horn), 2) the string passage just after the opening of the final movement and 3) the passionate descending sigh of the strings just before the coda.

Yes, that lyrical passage is very good indeed.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on May 21, 2014, 10:50:23 PM
I've just been through the works of Moeran listening chronologically and I maintain my very high regard for all his works. The most notable thing I noticed going through this time was how good the Cello Concerto was, I'm now thinking that this is his masterpiece jointly with the Symphony in G minor.

Particularly the first movement is very profound; it is at a moderate tempo but the listener can't quite decide whether it is allegro moderato or Andante (as sometimes in Sibelius). The themes and their treatment are likewise Sibelian stoical, so that themes that appear initially neutral can seem either rhapsodic and lyrical, or elegiac, or even threatening when they appear again without much actual change to them. The ending is bleak with a shiver of musical sleet out of Elgar's Second Symphony... and then the real slow movement begins.

Magical stuff.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on March 03, 2015, 07:34:36 PM
I've recently been getting back into Moeran, which resulted in quite a little CDCDCD splurge, and right now I'm revisiting his Violin Concerto (Little/A. Davis). Really beautiful music. In some respects, it reminds of a cross between Delius (in the slower passagework) and RVW and even a little Barber in the faster parts (esp. the middle movement). Are these fair comparisons? Anyway, I'm definitely going to be listening to more of his music.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on March 03, 2015, 09:34:09 PM
I've just been through the works of Moeran listening chronologically and I maintain my very high regard for all his works. The most notable thing I noticed going through this time was how good the Cello Concerto was, I'm now thinking that this is his masterpiece jointly with the Symphony in G minor.

Particularly the first movement is very profound; it is at a moderate tempo but the listener can't quite decide whether it is allegro moderato or Andante (as sometimes in Sibelius). The themes and their treatment are likewise Sibelian stoical, so that themes that appear initially neutral can seem either rhapsodic and lyrical, or elegiac, or even threatening when they appear again without much actual change to them. The ending is bleak with a shiver of musical sleet out of Elgar's Second Symphony... and then the real slow movement begins.

Magical stuff.

Agree about the Cello Concerto - his greatest work alongside the Symphony. I find the climax of the last movement, especially in the Boult/Coetmore performance, to be overwhelming. She was Moeran's wife after all and even though the playing is not perfect it is by far the most heartfelt performance. I think that John is right about the Barber connection too.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on March 03, 2015, 09:39:01 PM
Agree about the Cello Concerto - his greatest work alongside the Symphony. I find the climax of the last movement, especially in the Boult/Coetmore performance, to be overwhelming. She was Moeran's wife after all and even though the playing is not perfect it is by far the most heartfelt performance. I think that John is right about the Barber connection too.

Really excited about listening to the Cello Concerto again. I already own the Wallfisch/Handley performance, but I'm going to wait and listen to the Johnston/Falletta performance first once it arrives. I thought I might had been making a bit of a stretch with the slight Barber connection. Good to see I wasn't too far off the mark. :)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Rons_talking on March 08, 2015, 05:18:24 PM
Really excited about listening to the Cello Concerto again. I already own the Wallfisch/Handley performance, but I'm going to wait and listen to the Johnston/Falletta performance first once it arrives. I thought I might had been making a bit of a stretch with the slight Barber connection. Good to see I wasn't too far off the mark. :)

I just downloaded three of Moeran's albums and I'm in agreement with most everything about the Cello Concerto. Part of it's strength is the fact that many of the most lyrical moments are in its natural tessitura rather than ranging in upper octaves when a statement is to be made. The Adagio is beautiful and progresses in such a natural organic way. No abrupt tempo changes nor are any modulations discontiouous with the phrasing and harmonic development. It affects me the way Barber's Piano Concerto's slow movement does; you fall in love and only want change if it's for the better, and that's precisely what happens (not that the composers use the same diction!). He seems at his best when a bit rhapsodic...not hemmed in by the form (I also like the three rhapsodies I've heard). A nice discovery for me that I owe to you guys!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on March 08, 2015, 07:54:47 PM
I just downloaded three of Moeran's albums and I'm in agreement with most everything about the Cello Concerto. Part of it's strength is the fact that many of the most lyrical moments are in its natural tessitura rather than ranging in upper octaves when a statement is to be made. The Adagio is beautiful and progresses in such a natural organic way. No abrupt tempo changes nor are any modulations discontiouous with the phrasing and harmonic development. It affects me the way Barber's Piano Concerto's slow movement does; you fall in love and only want change if it's for the better, and that's precisely what happens (not that the composers use the same diction!). He seems at his best when a bit rhapsodic...not hemmed in by the form (I also like the three rhapsodies I've heard). A nice discovery for me that I owe to you guys!

Great to read this, Rons_talking. You should definitely check out the Violin Concerto with Tasmin Little/Andrew Davis on Chandos. Quite frankly, Little owns this concerto right now. I prefer her performance to the earlier Mordkovitch recording. Happy listening!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on March 09, 2015, 02:30:18 PM
My appreciation for the Violin Concerto has just skyrocketed. It's always hard for me to describe how a piece of music makes me feel but I have a strong emotional connection with this work. It's almost as if Moeran was writing directly to me. The last movement Lento had me in tears a few days ago as there seems to be some kind of loss or letting go of something in the music. Tasmin Little's performance is the best I've heard of the three I own. She really does tell a wonderful story here. Andrew Davis is with her every step of the way. As I've said many times, this is a true musical partnership. I really hope people discover this performance.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on March 09, 2015, 02:51:59 PM
Re: The Cello Concerto on Naxos with Johnston/Falletta

I have to say I wasn't particularly taken with the performance. It sounded quite nice at first but then I started missing the lushness of the Wallfisch/Handley performance. I don't think Johnston/Falletta are at fault so much but I do think the audio quality isn't as full as could have been and this kind of turned me off to the performance. I also didn't feel that Adagio like I felt in the Wallfisch/Handley. I don't think there was much in the way of a musical narrative either in this Johnston/Falletta recording. Anyway, that's just my two cents. I'm certainly glad I heard it but it doesn't displace the Wallfisch/Handley IMHO.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Scion7 on October 13, 2015, 12:47:43 AM
The Grove considers Moeran's technique to be superior to all his British contemporaries.  Listening to his music one might be surprised that a man with a severe head injury form WWI can be such a master-craftsman.  In this regard, you might call him the British Brahms.   :)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 13, 2015, 01:27:36 AM
Who wrote the entry? That's quite a claim. Though I admit, I cannot find fault with Moeran's technique, either.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Scion7 on October 13, 2015, 02:10:36 AM
Craftsmanship is not everything, though - he won't be replacing his fellow Brits Vaughan Williams or Bowen any time soon.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 13, 2015, 02:43:50 AM
Nope. Agreed.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 13, 2015, 06:36:35 AM
Craftsmanship is not everything, though - he won't be replacing his fellow Brits Vaughan Williams or Bowen any time soon.
Agree about VW but Bowen has been a complete blind-spot for me.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on October 13, 2015, 06:50:37 AM
Craftsmanship is not everything, though - he won't be replacing his fellow Brits Vaughan Williams or Bowen any time soon.

Bowen? In my view, he's hardly on the same level as Vaughan Williams. I've heard around four or five Bowen works and I've got to say that I remain rather underwhelmed.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Scion7 on October 13, 2015, 07:27:13 AM
Vaughan Williams is the superior orchestral works composer,
but Bowen is the superior chamber works composer.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Klaatu on October 13, 2015, 07:40:14 AM
Moeran has the distinction of being one of:

"Six Magnificent Classical-Music-Composing Bastards (You’ve Probably Never Heard Of)"

http://www.mrdankelly.com/blog/?p=1343

Others so honoured include Havergal Brian and Peter Warlock. Who knew that Classical Music could be so badass?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on October 13, 2015, 07:41:11 AM
Vaughan Williams is the superior orchestral works composer,
but Bowen is the superior chamber works composer.

But RVW made major contributions in almost every genre including opera. His symphonies remain a milestone in symphonic writing and, thus, propelling him way into the top-tier of British composers. I'm not saying that Bowen doesn't deserve attention, I'm saying that I don't really see, or hear rather, why you rate him so highly, but we're all different and hear things in completely different ways. As much as I'd like to see Rubbra, for example, get as much recognition as RVW, I have to accept the reality that this isn't going to happen and I can certainly hear why RVW is such a revered composer internationally ---- he simply has a unique musical persona that only he possesses and this musical language of his is universal.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on October 13, 2015, 07:59:55 AM
Moeran has the distinction of being one of:

"Six Magnificent Classical-Music-Composing Bastards (You’ve Probably Never Heard Of)"

http://www.mrdankelly.com/blog/?p=1343

Others so honoured include Havergal Brian and Peter Warlock. Who knew that Classical Music could be so badass?

Very funny article. Thanks!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Scion7 on October 13, 2015, 05:26:58 PM
I don't know of any "major" chamber work recognized by Vaughan Williams.
Nice stuff, but "major"??
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on October 13, 2015, 06:23:35 PM
I don't know of any "major" chamber work recognized by Vaughan Williams.
Nice stuff, but "major"??

Certainly the Phantasy Quintet and Violin Sonata count as major contributions to chamber music? For me, even if RVW didn't compose one piece of chamber music, his star would still shine much brighter than Bowen's and this is in part due to the strength of the orchestral music and, yes, I would count The Pilgrim's Progress as a major addition to the genre of opera. Also, let's not forget his choral music, which surely also helped put him ahead of the pack. He had such a singular approach and once you've heard heard a note from him, you can't mistake him for anyone else. But if the music itself wasn't any good, then that would be a different story, but, alas, it's incredible and anyone looking to get into British composers will most definitely run across RVW before they did Bowen or at least that's how I feel. Not that this is a popularity contest but merely pointing out that one composer has had a greater influence over the other.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Scion7 on October 13, 2015, 06:31:58 PM
They count as great compositions.  SIGNIFICANT, no.  "Major" and "significant" have meanings along the lines of Bartok's string quartets - these were major innovative works that shook the world of chamber music - many, if not most, musicologists consider them the most important since Beethoven's.  That's the point I'm making.

Ol' Rafe was significant for his songs and his orchestral writing, musically.

By the way, until you come to terms with Bach, Beethoven, etc., we're going to continue to look at you as a "work in progress" or "person in therapy."    :P   There is still hope!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: kishnevi on October 13, 2015, 06:32:33 PM
RVW wrote "big" music, Bowen did not.  But Bowen's chamber music  is at least as good as anything by RVW, and his piano music is exceptional.
Did RVW write anything for piano? I don't remember any.

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on October 13, 2015, 06:42:17 PM
They count as great compositions.  SIGNIFICANT, no.  "Major" and "significant" have meanings along the lines of Bartok's string quartets - these were major innovative works that shook the world of chamber music - many, if not most, musicologists consider them the most important since Beethoven's.  That's the point I'm making.

Ol' Rafe was significant for his songs and his orchestral writing, musically.

By the way, until you come to terms with Bach, Beethoven, etc., we're going to continue to look at you as a "work in progress" or "person in therapy."    :P   There is still hope!

But my point is this: how many classical listeners, if interested in British music, can dodge RVW's influence? RVW's influence can be heard in the music of Moeran, Finzi, Howells, Rubbra, some Britten, some Tippett, Holst (though I'm sure Holst influenced some of RVW's music), Gordon Jacob, and several others whose names I'm forgetting right now. I'm not saying that Bowen isn't a good composer or of any significance in his own right, I'm just saying that when it comes to British music (leave Germanic music out of this please and Bartok for that matter), RVW is a giant.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Scion7 on October 13, 2015, 06:52:29 PM
... RVW is a giant.
  Yes, he is - remember, I grew up in listening to him in school ad nauseam, much more than you native-born Americans will ever understand!   :-)

But he isn't remembered for his chamber pieces. 

To get back on topic, has anyone ever attended a concert that a piece by Moeran was performed?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2015, 01:14:26 AM
  Yes, he is - remember, I grew up in listening to him in school ad nauseam, much more than you native-born Americans will ever understand!   :-)

But he isn't remembered for his chamber pieces. 

To get back on topic, has anyone ever attended a concert that a piece by Moeran was performed?

I attended Moeran's Symphony at the Proms in London (2009). I was really thrilled to see it live. I hope that BBC Music Magazine will release it as their accompanying CD one day - their choices are getting a bit more adventurous (Stenhammar's Second Symphony recently).
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: revdrdave on October 14, 2015, 05:31:01 AM
Did RVW write anything for piano? I don't remember any.

Yes, he did, about three-quarters of a CD worth but piano music was never a large part of his output.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on October 14, 2015, 05:58:33 AM
Yes, he did, about three-quarters of a CD worth but piano music was never a large part of his output.
'The Lake in the Mountains' is worth hearing in its piano version:


Back on topic:

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: cilgwyn on January 21, 2017, 12:13:28 PM
I love this symphony. This was the first recording I heard. I had the Lp when I was a youngster. I love that photo. I used to prop it up in front of me while I was listening. Their Bax cycle had wonderful photos too.

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/51n1xeBU5BL_zps0sk2guex.jpg)

I also have the Boult recording and the Neville Dilkes recording which I got after reading that vandermolen likes it. The HMV release fills out the cd playing time with Barbirolli's wonderful recordings of Ireland's London Overture and Bax's Tintagel,which makes a very satisfying concert. I also have a cd-r of Heward's recording. I filled out the cd-r playing time with recordings of Barbirolli's recordings of Ireland's The Forgotten Rite and Mai Dun.


Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 02:23:13 PM
I love this symphony. This was the first recording I heard. I had the Lp when I was a youngster. I love that photo. I used to prop it up in front of me while I was listening. Their Bax cycle had wonderful photos too.

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/51n1xeBU5BL_zps0sk2guex.jpg)

I also have the Boult recording and the Neville Dilkes recording which I got after reading that vandermolen likes it. The HMV release fills out the cd playing time with Barbirolli's wonderful recordings of Ireland's London Overture and Bax's Tintagel,which makes a very satisfying concert. I also have a cd-r of Heward's recording. I filled out the cd-r playing time with recordings of Barbirolli's recordings of Ireland's The Forgotten Rite and Mai Dun.
The Moeran and Ireland works are a great programme - three of my favourite works. I loved the 'Ring of Kerry' photo on the cover of the original Dilkes LP release which was a wonderful discovery. I was working in Harrods as a student and invariably spent my lunch hour in the record dept. I impulse bought the Moeran Symphony and always loved it.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: cilgwyn on January 21, 2017, 03:47:02 PM
Yes,I really enjoy that performance. I've got it lined up now,actually. I have a fondness for the Handley though,because it's the first one I heard. There must be a photo of the original Dilkes Lp somewhere. I must admit I got rid of the 'enchant' Chandos reissue of the Handley recording because it didn't have that photo! The other one has some rocks on it!!
I was just looking at the Moeran Dilkes Lp you refer to on ebay, Yes,I can see why you wanted that. The emi studio release,which I hadn't seen before,does appear to have it on the front,albeit in a shrunken,butchered form! ??? :(  The Hmv release has the Ireland & Bax,though,as compensation!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 11:53:50 PM
Yes,I really enjoy that performance. I've got it lined up now,actually. I have a fondness for the Handley though,because it's the first one I heard. There must be a photo of the original Dilkes Lp somewhere. I must admit I got rid of the 'enchant' Chandos reissue of the Handley recording because it didn't have that photo! The other one has some rocks on it!!
I was just looking at the Moeran Dilkes Lp you refer to on ebay, Yes,I can see why you wanted that. The emi studio release,which I hadn't seen before,does appear to have it on the front,albeit in a shrunken,butchered form! ??? :(  The Hmv release has the Ireland & Bax,though,as compensation!
I did exactly the same as you with the 'enchant' CD for the same reason. Yes, the EMI Studio release has my favourite CD cover image as it, sort of, reproduces the LP photo. I liked the Chandos budget release Cello Concerto/Violin Concerto release with its flock of birds cover. As a performance of the Cello Concerto, however, I much prefer the Boult/Coetmore release which is deeply moving. The Cello Concerto is my next favourite work by Moeran:

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: cilgwyn on January 22, 2017, 03:07:36 AM
Of course the cd artwork shouldn't really be that important......but I kept looking at it......and it played on my mind! In the end I just had to buy it!! ::) ;D The HMV label's artwork for the Dilkes Moeran is allright. It looks like one of those old painting by numbers efforts. I remember when I was a youngster,an elderly aunt knowing I liked painting,bought me a painting by numbers set. I remember my being mortified when I opened my present.  ??? >:( You don't buy a budding little Picasso Jr a painting by numbers kit! The ego!! ;D Lenny the Lion went down allot better the following year!!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 23, 2017, 01:37:35 PM
Of course the cd artwork shouldn't really be that important......but I kept looking at it......and it played on my mind! In the end I just had to buy it!! ::) ;D The HMV label's artwork for the Dilkes Moeran is allright. It looks like one of those old painting by numbers efforts. I remember when I was a youngster,an elderly aunt knowing I liked painting,bought me a painting by numbers set. I remember my being mortified when I opened my present.  ??? >:( You don't buy a budding little Picasso Jr a painting by numbers kit! The ego!! ;D Lenny the Lion went down allot better the following year!!
Personally I preferred Sparky's Magic Piano. Sorting out my CDs today (as instructed) I came across that fine original Chandos release of Vernon Handley with the Ulster Orchestra with the fine cover image of 'Purple and Tomies Mountains/Lough Leane. Co. Kerry' by Derek Forss FRPS. It is indeed a fine performance I also like the photo of Moeran and his pipe at the back of the booklet, looking slightly less troubled than usual. I like having photos of composers in the booklet. It annoyed me when Bernstein's great Sony CD of William Schuman symphonies contained loads of photos of Lennie but none of the composer. Likewise when DGG issued their CD of Honegger's Second and 'Liturgique' symphonies replacing the fine line drawing of Honegger from the original LP with yet another photo of Herbert Von Karajan. Don't worry this will all be resolved in my psychotherapy sessions.  8)
PS I enjoyed your 'Painting by Numbers' anecdote. Your comment about the HMV image looking like Painting by Numbers made me laugh - it will never seem the same again.
PPS the end of the slow movement of Moeran's Symphony is a most beautiful section of the score - I find it very moving.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 23, 2017, 04:04:35 PM
I did exactly the same as you with the 'enchant' CD for the same reason. Yes, the EMI Studio release has my favourite CD cover image as it, sort of, reproduces the LP photo. I liked the Chandos budget release Cello Concerto/Violin Concerto release with its flock of birds cover. As a performance of the Cello Concerto, however, I much prefer the Boult/Coetmore release which is deeply moving. The Cello Concerto is my next favourite work by Moeran:



I'll have to seek out this Coetmore/Boult recording, Jeffrey. Thanks for the heads-up. I take it this performance in question is on the Lyrita label?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 24, 2017, 01:50:14 AM
I'll have to seek out this Coetmore/Boult recording, Jeffrey. Thanks for the heads-up. I take it this performance in question is on the Lyrita label?
Be aware John that the soloist on this Lyrita release is Moeran's widow. By the time she made the recording she was no longer performing regularly in concert and therefore her playing is not as polished as the recordings on Chandos and Naxos. Having said that there is a humanity about this performance which, in my eyes, elevates it above all those version. You might be interested in my review of the CD on Amazon UK and the comment by Peter Gage below it. This is, along with the symphony, Moeran's greatest work:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/E-Moeran-Cello-Concerto-Sonata-x/dp/B00165QOSK/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1485246164&sr=1-1&keywords=Moeran+coetmore

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 24, 2017, 07:05:01 AM
I've added the cover image to the Lyrita CD (above).
I find the picture very poignant. Moeran was a troubled man probably due to having shrapnel in his head from the First World War. His friendship with  the composer Peter Warlock didn't do him any good either. He married late in life to the cellist Piers Coetmore, the soloist on the Lyrita recording. The relationship was also troubled and the marriage was not especially happy - they spent long periods apart as she was touring frequently. I find the photo moving because although they are holding hands you get a sense, I think, that all is not well from the body language and facial expressions - like they are close but not close. The fact that it is a black and white photo in a bleak moorland landscape ( where I suspect Moeran felt most at home) only adds to it. Maybe I'm retrospectively reading things into it which were not there. Anyway, I love the CD - greatest, though least polished performance of the Cello Concerto and find the climax of the last movement to be overwhelming. Boult's accompaniment is also wonderful - a truly great disc.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: cilgwyn on January 24, 2017, 07:17:29 AM
I'm currently enjoying this cd. Another great cover photo,too!

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/51Npr9pFcJL_zps5wrbtk29.jpg)
It's interesting to be reminded that I was enjoying listening to a cd of a mewing kitten!
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mirror Image on January 24, 2017, 07:30:27 AM
Be aware John that the soloist on this Lyrita release is Moeran's widow. By the time she made the recording she was no longer performing regularly in concert and therefore her playing is not as polished as the recordings on Chandos and Naxos. Having said that there is a humanity about this performance which, in my eyes, elevates it above all those version. You might be interested in my review of the CD on Amazon UK and the comment by Peter Gage below it. This is, along with the symphony, Moeran's greatest work:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/E-Moeran-Cello-Concerto-Sonata-x/dp/B00165QOSK/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1485246164&sr=1-1&keywords=Moeran+coetmore



I've added the cover image to the Lyrita CD (above).
I find the picture very poignant. Moeran was a troubled man probably due to having shrapnel in his head from the First World War. His friendship with  the composer Peter Warlock didn't do him any good either. He married late in life to the cellist Piers Coetmore, the soloist on the Lyrita recording. The relationship was also troubled and the marriage was not especially happy - they spent long periods apart as she was touring frequently. I find the photo moving because although they are holding hands you get a sense, I think, that all is not well from the body language and facial expressions - like they are close but not close. The fact that it is a black and white photo in a bleak moorland landscape ( where I suspect Moeran felt most at home) only adds to it. Maybe I'm retrospectively reading things into it which were not there. Anyway, I love the CD - greatest, though least polished performance of the Cello Concerto and find the climax of the last movement to be overwhelming. Boult's accompaniment is also wonderful - a truly great disc.

Thanks for the information and feedback, Jeffrey. I'm not too worried about a performance being that polished whenever the emotional commitment from the soloist is much more attention-grabbing. I didn't know Coetmore was his wife. Interesting.

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 24, 2017, 07:37:05 AM
Thanks for the information and feedback, Jeffrey. I'm not too worried about a performance being that polished whenever the emotional commitment from the soloist is much more attention-grabbing. I didn't know Coetmore was his wife. Interesting.
Both the other works on the CD are very good too John. Moeran regarded the Cello Sonata as the final statement of his musical beliefs
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on January 24, 2017, 07:37:44 AM
I'm currently enjoying this cd. Another great cover photo,too!

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/51Npr9pFcJL_zps5wrbtk29.jpg)
A great CD in all respects. I especially like 'In the Mountain Country'.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2018, 08:06:16 AM
Enjoying Moeran's life-affirming 'Sinfonietta' from this splendid collection. Really, he should have called it Symphony 2:

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 16, 2018, 10:47:47 AM
Enjoying Moeran's life-affirming 'Sinfonietta' from this splendid collection. Really, he should have called it Symphony 2:



Count me as another fan of that sparkling work. The only recording I have is this one:

(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/747313583720.jpg?1471125817)

My favorite movement is the 2nd (the variations). There is an unforgettable melody which delights me over and over again.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2018, 11:11:04 AM
Count me as another fan of that sparkling work. The only recording I have is this one:

(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/747313583720.jpg?1471125817)

My favorite movement is the 2nd (the variations). There is an unforgettable melody which delights me over and over again.

I love the whole work Cesar and have every recording I think  ::)

Let me see:

Boult Lyrita (the best I think)
BBC Radio Classics (Boult)
Naxos (Lloyd Jones)
Somm (Beecham)
Del Mar (Chandos)
Hickox (EMI)

They are all good in different ways.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 16, 2018, 12:37:14 PM
I love the whole work Cesar and have every recording I think  ::)

Let me see:

Boult Lyrita (the best I think)
BBC Radio Classics (Boult)
Naxos (Lloyd Jones)
Somm (Beecham)
Del Mar (Chandos)
Hickox (EMI)

They are all good in different ways.

Please, don't get me wrong. I do also love the whole work. It's just that melody is really special to me  ;)

In fact, I'm thinking in getting the Boult one. It is paired with the Symphony, isn't it?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Baron Scarpia on May 16, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
I think I have the Sinfonietta by Hickox and the Symphony by Handley. Don't recall having listened.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 16, 2018, 12:45:25 PM
I think I have the Sinfonietta by Hickox and the Symphony by Handley. Don't recall having listened.

It would be good you give them a spin. Those works are wonderful.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2018, 08:52:50 PM
Please, don't get me wrong. I do also love the whole work. It's just that melody is really special to me  ;)

In fact, I'm thinking in getting the Boult one. It is paired with the Symphony, isn't it?

I realised that you liked it all Cesar. My post didn't come out as I intended. Yes, on Lyrita - a wonderful CD.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Oates on May 17, 2018, 05:10:43 AM
I realised that you liked it all Cesar. My post didn't come out as I intended. Yes, on Lyrita - a wonderful CD.

Much as I value Boult's brilliant version of the symphony, I don't think the Lyrita releases capture the 3 rhapsodies as well as Vernon Handley does on Chandos.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2018, 05:50:16 AM
Much as I value Boult's brilliant version of the symphony, I don't think the Lyrita releases capture the 3 rhapsodies as well as Vernon Handley does on Chandos.
Interesting point although I much prefer Boult's version of the symphony to Handley's, strong as that is. Actually the version by Neville Dilkes is my favourite recording of the symphony (also Heward).
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: kyjo on May 17, 2018, 06:50:42 AM
Moeran has become a real favorite of mine recently. Particularly the epic Symphony in G minor and the hauntingly lyrical Cello Concerto, but also the invogorating Sinfonietta, colorful Rhapsodies, and folksy String Quartet no. 1. Not unlike RVW, Moeran’s music has an immensely appealing combination of Sibelian power and atmosphere, English folk influences, and emotional pathos.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2018, 08:47:51 AM
Moeran has become a real favorite of mine recently. Particularly the epic Symphony in G minor and the hauntingly lyrical Cello Concerto, but also the invogorating Sinfonietta, colorful Rhapsodies, and folksy String Quartet no. 1. Not unlike RVW, Moeran’s music has an immensely appealing combination of Sibelian power and atmosphere, English folk influences, and emotional pathos.

There's a really nice Cello Sonata as well Kyle.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 17, 2018, 10:51:36 AM
I realised that you liked it all Cesar. My post didn't come out as I intended. Yes, on Lyrita - a wonderful CD.

No problem  :)

Thank you Jeffrey. I'm gonna acquire it, perhaps next month.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 17, 2018, 11:01:38 AM
I share your tastes about those works. Additionally, I like the Violin sonata, the Violin concerto, the 2 string quartets, the piano trio, the string trio, Nocturne for baritone, chorus and orchestra and the completed 2nd Symphony in E flat major. There definitely are more works to discover yet. Regarding the Cello sonata, I find it a bit dry. I suppose I need to appreciate it better.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2018, 11:38:40 AM
No problem  :)

Thank you Jeffrey. I'm gonna acquire it, perhaps next month.

I'm sure that you wont regret it Cesar.
 :)
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on May 17, 2018, 06:25:09 PM
I only just found out that Moeran's solo songs had been recorded (on Chandos). Have ordered them. Has anyone else had a listen?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: calyptorhynchus on June 18, 2018, 09:41:53 PM
Ok, so the solo songs arrived a few days ago and I have been listening to them.

A great disappointment  :( (perhaps why I hadn't heard about the disks, no one was raving about them!)

Anyway, they are not very good, definitely not up to the level of the orchestral and chamber works, or even the folk-song settings. Moeran doesn't seem to have had much literary discernment as the poems he chose were mostly quite poor, and those that weren't (Shakespeare songs &c) challenge comparison with better settings and come off worse. And his vocal lines are very unmemorable and non-inevitable... you know how a really great song-setting convinces you that it couldn't have been set any other way and has you singing it to yourself afterwards? Well, there aren't any like that.

 :( again

Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J on June 20, 2018, 07:25:19 AM
Regarding the Cello sonata, I find it a bit dry. I suppose I need to appreciate it better.

I'll admit to never having understood what commenters mean when they call a given work "dry" or (in this case) "a bit dry".  (BTW, why do reviewers conversely never refer to a piece as "wet" or "moist" or even "fluid", - though sometimes "florid" or "flowing")?  Just what IS the standard antithesis of "dry" in musical commentary?


Can anyone elaborate?
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: Mahlerian on June 20, 2018, 08:53:15 AM
I'll admit to never having understood what commenters mean when they call a given work "dry" or (in this case) "a bit dry".  (BTW, why do reviewers conversely never refer to a piece as "wet" or "moist" or even "fluid", - though sometimes "florid" or "flowing")?  Just what IS the standard antithesis of "dry" in musical commentary?


Can anyone elaborate?

I'm not quite sure, but I think that dry in this context is being used in an analogy with wine, where it means "astringent."  So the opposite would be something like "succulent" or "sweet."  One often sees "lush" being used to describe music as well.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dry

Gives as No. 20: Dull, uninteresting, which is probably close to how the term is sometimes used in music criticism, though I think that the wine analogy often applies as well, when someone talks about dry fugal writing providing an intellectual rather than emotional pleasure, for instance.
Title: Re: EJ Moeran
Post by: J on June 20, 2018, 02:43:44 PM
I'm not quite sure, but I think that dry in this context is being used in an analogy with wine, where it means "astringent."  So the opposite would be something like "succulent" or "sweet."  One often sees "lush" being used to describe music as well.

You may be onto it.  I get that, and can apply the suggested analogy and contrast to my own listening experience in a meaningful way.