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The Back Room => The Diner => Topic started by: kishnevi on December 01, 2017, 07:10:52 PM

Title: World Cup 2018
Post by: kishnevi on December 01, 2017, 07:10:52 PM
Brackets are published, so I guess we can start a thread
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2745180-world-cup-draw-2018-results-groups-bracket-and-schedule-revealed.amp.html
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Jo498 on December 02, 2017, 02:11:24 AM
The most remarkable news concerning the WC is already old news, namely that neither Italy nor the Netherlands managed to qualify.

Russia, the host, got a fairly easy group and has good chances to qualify for the next round. Groups B, C and D are not too easy but all of the respective favorites should be able to get through. With E and F the interesting thing is that if either Brazil or Germany finish second in their group, they could meet in the first k.o. round, making for an early "finale" for two favorites.
England should manage to hold Tunisia and Panama at bay, so there is some hope they will be a little more successful than last time. :D
Group H is only underdogs with no clear favorite.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on December 02, 2017, 04:14:55 AM
England has an 'easy group' but I admired Gareth Southgate for saying that England have often written off 'easy teams' and then ended up being beaten by them. Anyway I look forward to the massively over-confident expectations followed by a humiliating early exit. I enjoyed the prophetic Private Eye cartoon, last time round showing the England team emerging from their aircraft whilst a speech bubble from the cockpit asked 'shall we keep the engines running?'
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Jo498 on December 02, 2017, 04:42:11 AM
The positive is that England performed so bad the last time so expectations are rather low and it should not be too hard to exceed them. ;)
Whereas anything short of the finale will be a disappointment for Germany; Brazil certainly will want to make amends for their 2014 failure on home soil and so does France for the last European CS.

(Admittedly, I am hardly following soccer except for the large international events. My personal highlight in sports 2018 will probably be the Athletics European CS in Berlin with a fairly promising German team (massive talent appeared in the last few years from mostly young women in sprint/relays and distance running in addition to our traditonal strengths in the throwing and dec/heptathlon events) who will be supermotivated at home.)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: nodogen on December 02, 2017, 04:44:27 AM

England should manage to hold Tunisia and Panama at bay, so there is some hope they will be a little more successful than last time. :D


You should try decaf. Panama will be particularly testing - sometimes they have as many as 11 players on at the same time. 🙃
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: bwv 1080 on December 02, 2017, 01:52:40 PM
The fact that this is in Russia and the next in Qatar just underscores how corrupt FIFA is and makes me have no interest in it, despite watching quite a bit of the last one
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Jo498 on December 03, 2017, 12:11:25 AM
True, but FIFA has been extraordinarily corrupt since a very long time, only it was not rubbed in one's face with the Cup taking place in France, Japan, Germany etc.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: GioCar on December 03, 2017, 12:25:18 AM
The most remarkable news concerning the WC is already old news, namely that neither Italy nor the Netherlands managed to qualify.


I'll be rooting for the Icelandic team. Really.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Jo498 on December 03, 2017, 12:36:57 AM
Agreed, the participation of Iceland is also more noteworthy than the sorting into groups. They have a chance to preceed beyond the group stage but it will not be easy (Croatia once (98 or 94) famously kicked out Germany in the k.o. phase and Nigeria is unstable but when they are good they can be formidable.)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: epicous on December 03, 2017, 03:13:46 AM
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OW7nYcrTSLg/WiPcKRtRFwI/AAAAAAAAAJA/19KO0dWJxYYPdYjMrKHDFZer6PASDdqpQCLcBGAs/s1600/fg.jpg)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: epicous on December 03, 2017, 03:21:45 AM
My team, in a congregation of indurated teams: Germany, Sweden and S. Sorea.
Germany, the tabbed troupe to not abdicate in this kingdom.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: bwv 1080 on December 03, 2017, 05:54:26 AM
True, but FIFA has been extraordinarily corrupt since a very long time, only it was not rubbed in one's face with the Cup taking place in France, Japan, Germany etc.

Yes it’s like football, when I was ignorant that it destroys the brains of the players I enjoyed it, now I can’t. 
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Jo498 on December 03, 2017, 08:57:02 AM
At least in soccer it is not obvious if or how the corrupt institutions seriously harm the sport; it's doing very well.
My favorit sport, Athletics/Running, has similar dubious institutions (I think all large international sports institutions have their fair share of corruption) and has been haunted by doping problems for decades. But it still fascinates me and I will support it by watching, hoping (against data) that the controls and honest athletes prevail.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on June 13, 2018, 02:24:31 AM
Spanish fire coach two days before the start of the World Cup. I think they are in possibly in trouble...what a distraction. You can read about it here...https://www.yahoo.com/sports/spain-sacks-manager-julen-lopetegui-eve-world-cup-amid-real-madrid-controversy-101319421.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/spain-sacks-manager-julen-lopetegui-eve-world-cup-amid-real-madrid-controversy-101319421.html).

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 13, 2018, 04:49:12 AM
There was a funny and no doubt prophetic cartoon in the paper today showing the England Team coach parked in the 'Short Stay' car park at Heathrow Airport.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on June 18, 2018, 02:54:09 AM
Mexico wins, Ronaldo scores 3, Messi plays terrible seems to be the story so far...
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on June 18, 2018, 02:55:54 AM
Mexico wins, Ronaldo scores 3, Messi plays terrible seems to be the story so far...

Nah.
No Team NL / Hup Holland Hup / Oranje Boven this year.

That's the story. Period.

;)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on June 18, 2018, 11:09:12 AM
Pretty exciting so far for just the first games. The Spain-Portugal game was a delight to watch - not perfect, but some amazing skill on both sides. England just pulled off a small miracle, so maybe they will be in the mix after all. Or have I jinxed it?! :) I loved seeing Mexico beat Germany. Brazil was lucky to get out of there with a point. Will be interesting to see if they adjust or if other teams try to replicate what Switzerland did.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 18, 2018, 11:27:51 AM
Can't believe that England won their opening game! However they can't afford to waste so many chances in their future games.
Thank goodness for Harry Kane.
 :)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: DaveF on June 18, 2018, 11:59:35 AM
I'll be rooting for the Icelandic team. Really.

They're much loved here in Wales too, partly because we have Aron Gunnarsson at Cardiff City and partly for some other reason I forget.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: springrite on June 18, 2018, 05:05:58 PM
England just pulled off a small miracle, so maybe they will be in the mix after all. Or have I jinxed it?! :)

I think you have grossly over-estimated your influence.  ;)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on June 18, 2018, 08:17:31 PM
I'll be rooting for the Icelandic team. Really.

I understand that.
I'd like to see Belgium perform well, too, because they are our neighbours, and IMHO potentially they have the best squad. The problem with them is that there is always some problem with internal f(r)actions. Their 2nd half against Panama was alright though.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 18, 2018, 09:35:08 PM
I understand that.
I'd like to see Belgium perform well, too, because they are our neighbours, and IMHO potentially they have the best squad. The problem with them is that there is always some problem with internal f(r)actions. Their 2nd half against Panama was alright though.

Belgium are invariably a good side.

A team from their past featured one of my favourite footballer's names:

Julien Cools

Not to mention Jan Ceulemans (in the same Belgian side I think).

Definitely the most trendy names in the History of the World Cup.

 :)

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on June 18, 2018, 09:38:29 PM
I think you have grossly over-estimated your influence.  ;)
I agree. There are so many other jinxes that have priority over mine! :)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on June 18, 2018, 10:50:51 PM
Belgium are invariably a good side.

A team from their past featured one of my favourite footballer's names:

Julien Cools

Not to mention Jan Ceulemans (in the same Belgian side I think).

Definitely the most trendy names in the History of the World Cup.

 :)

Cools was 1970s and Ceulemans (mainly) 1980s. The latter was certainly one of my favourite players, great skills and fighting spirit.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 18, 2018, 11:41:38 PM
Cools was 1970s and Ceulemans (mainly) 1980s. The latter was certainly one of my favourite players, great skills and fighting spirit.

Thanks!

They were both fine players.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on June 19, 2018, 12:00:21 AM
Thanks!

They were both fine players.

I have warm and happy memories of the good ole Belgian squad, also because of the legendary commentator Rik de Saedeleer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1LVA64E2o8
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 19, 2018, 12:12:38 AM
I have warm and happy memories of the good ole Belgian squad, also because of the legendary commentator Rik de Saedeleer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1LVA64E2o8

Excellent Marc - he seems to have been inspired by South American football commentators:

My own favourite, and that of many English football fans I suspect, remains this one - 'The Voice of Norway', even though England were on the receiving end of it. Norway had just beaten England 2-1 in a World Cup qualifier:

https://youtu.be/PqZTP8-8wIs

'Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher your boys took a hell of a beating...'
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on June 19, 2018, 01:42:53 AM
Excellent Marc - he seems to have been inspired by South American football commentators:

My own favourite, and that of many English football fans I suspect, remains this one - 'The Voice of Norway', even though England were on the receiving end of it. Norway had just beaten England 2-1 in a World Cup qualifier:

https://youtu.be/PqZTP8-8wIs

'Maggie Thatcher, can you hear me? Maggie Thatcher your boys took a hell of a beating...'

Yeah, De Saedeleer was happy to make likewise comments about the Dutch when the situation was appropriate... well, I didn't mind.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: epicous on June 24, 2018, 07:22:40 AM
Hard Group

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X8vorvmMnFs/Wy_E6DGqpWI/AAAAAAAAALg/pgVsN3dD3ME26Q6uAWNveJx7qNA37vrvgCLcBGAs/s1600/grupoF.JPG)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 24, 2018, 12:45:36 PM
Amazing England result today (6-1 v Panama) but, based on past experience,my fear is that it will raise unrealistic expectations.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: marvinbrown on June 25, 2018, 09:02:48 AM
 my 2 cents:
 After watching Germany's mesmerising win (with one man down!) over Sweden, come on a winning goal in the last 30 seconds of overtime play,  I thought...well the Germanic people did give the world JS Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Brahms, Haydn, Kant, Hegel, Enistein,.....etc.etc. so I should expect nothing short of a mesmerising performance by the German team! Argentina is an embarrassment, very poor sportsmanship, England hasn't really been tested, Russia is on a roll,....fun fun fun!

  marvin
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 25, 2018, 02:02:08 PM
my 2 cents:
 After watching Germany's mesmerising win (with one man down!) over Sweden, come on a winning goal in the last 30 seconds of overtime play,  I thought...well the Germanic people did give the world JS Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Brahms, Haydn, Kant, Hegel, Enistein,.....etc.etc. so I should expect nothing short of a mesmerising performance by the German team! Argentina is an embarrassment, very poor sportsmanship, England hasn't really been tested, Russia is on a roll,....fun fun fun!

  marvin

'England hasn't really been tested..' True although victories should give them more confidence than usual - maybe wishful thinking.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on June 25, 2018, 09:55:26 PM
my 2 cents:
 After watching Germany's mesmerising win (with one man down!) over Sweden, come on a winning goal in the last 30 seconds of overtime play,  I thought...well the Germanic people did give the world JS Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Brahms, Haydn, Kant, Hegel, Enistein,.....etc.etc. so I should expect nothing short of a mesmerising performance by the German team!

Himmelherrgott!

I sincerely hope they won't. I'm sick and tired of Germany winning. No, really, I can't wait for them going home and I hope it''l happen rather sooner than later.  ;D

Your list of luminaries, hmmm... possibly Mozart and Haydn would have enjoyed watching a football match now and then, but the other ones would probably have had only contempt for such a low form of mass entertainment.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: marvinbrown on June 26, 2018, 04:32:16 AM
 
'England hasn't really been tested..' True although victories should give them more confidence than usual - maybe wishful thinking.


  or worst.... a young team with potential can easily be lulled into a false sense of security. They have to be careful.

  marvin

 
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2018, 05:23:29 AM

 

  or worst.... a young team with potential can easily be lulled into a false sense of security. They have to be careful.

  marvin

 

Agreed - do I sense impending catastrophe?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: springrite on June 26, 2018, 03:13:31 PM
Agreed - do I sense impending catastrophe?

I watch sports for catastrophes. They are far more entertaining than glory.  >:D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on June 26, 2018, 10:05:22 PM
I watch sports for catastrophes. They are far more entertaining than glory.  >:D

That is quite true Paul!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: epicous on June 27, 2018, 05:06:50 AM
Himmelherrgott!

Your list of luminaries, hmmm... possibly Mozart and Haydn would have enjoyed watching a football match now and then,

Austria often loses against Germany, but there was a surprise result  in a pre Cup friendly:

https://www.youtube.com/v/Zy4VIoi6-Fo




Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: marvinbrown on June 27, 2018, 11:02:51 AM


  Germany has been eliminated, by a team that had not qualified to the next round.  Life is stranger than fiction. Florestan   8) can sleep well tonight.........
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Sergeant Rock on June 27, 2018, 11:06:18 AM
I watch sports for catastrophes. They are far more entertaining than glory.  >:D

Then Germany's loss to South Korea, and their elimination, should have entertained you mightily  ;)

Sarge
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on June 27, 2018, 11:22:11 AM

  Germany has been eliminated, by a team that had not qualified to the next round.  Life is stranger than fiction. Florestan   8) can sleep well tonight.........

Very well, indeed. The "mesmerizing play" has turned into what it really was even at their first match, the one with Mexico: dull, commonplace, uninspired and lethargic. They were a pale shadow of their former self of 4 years ago and their going home is fully deserved.

Now I can hardly wait for Argentina to beat France and Croatia to beat Denmark; there should be official penalties for such blatantly, shamefully non-combat draws as the one between France and Denmark.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: André on June 27, 2018, 03:54:55 PM
My son has always rooted for the mannschaft. Today he switched for the Red Devils  >:D

(https://static.cnews.fr/sites/default/files/styles/image_640_360/public/iconsport_icon_blg_141117_01_02.jpg?itok=jsaF-G4Q)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on June 28, 2018, 07:15:39 AM
I'm trying to play music for each of the 16 winners/survivors.  Luckily,  most of the countries are pretty easy.

Any recommendations for composers from Colombia or Uruguay?  Preferably downloadable.  And preferably good music.

For Uruguay, the best I can come up with so far is Serebrier – maybe Symphony #2 (?). 

For Colombia, I think I'm gonna go with this:
Guitar Music of Colombia



Any suggestions?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on June 29, 2018, 03:27:31 AM
My son has always rooted for the mannschaft. Today he switched for the Red Devils  >:D

(https://static.cnews.fr/sites/default/files/styles/image_640_360/public/iconsport_icon_blg_141117_01_02.jpg?itok=jsaF-G4Q)

Not a bad switch. ;)
Hope them Belges will keep the good spirit up!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: André on June 29, 2018, 04:43:37 AM
They’re surprisingly good. My son being half belgian had no qualms about changing allegiances  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on June 30, 2018, 04:21:22 AM
They’re surprisingly good. […]

I must admit it's not really a surprise to me. This very talented generation already knocked on the door at the Olympics of 2008. I thought that, with all their class acts in their squad, they were behaving too cautious (a Belgian 'disease') in Brazil 2014 (FIFA) and especially France 2016 (UEFA).
Maybe it's their last chance to get to the Finale. I really hope so, because, if the spirit is good, they are able to play great and attractive football, the way Germany did during the last dozen years or so.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 06:14:10 AM
Well, at least Spain deserves the World Cup for ball possession and passing (again).
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 07:53:34 AM
Wow.
Germany out. Argentina, Portugal, Spain.

Spain waited until extra time to realize that one has to play forward to score goals.
Too late.

2nd Great Party for the Russians, after the opening match against Saudi Arabia.
The morning after that particular match, they read in the newspapers that taxes were raised and the pensionable age was increased with 5 years.

Putin's team knows when to strike. >:D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on July 01, 2018, 08:53:28 AM
I'm looking forward to watching this Croatian team play – I haven't seen them yet and they are supposed to have the best midfielders.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 09:00:37 AM
I'm looking forward to watching this Croatian team play – I haven't seen them yet and they are supposed to have the best midfielders.

For football's sake Croatia better win.

OTOH: I've always had a soft spot for the Red and White Danish Dynamite.
But with their Norwegian coach Åge Hareide, much of the Dynamite has disappeared. Until now, apart from the odd exceptions, they've been rather boring in this tournament.

After one minute: 1-0 for Danmark!

EDIT: after two minutes: 1-1!

:o

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 01, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
Wow.
Germany out. Argentina, Portugal, Spain.

Spain waited until extra time to realize that one has to play forward to score goals.
Too late.

2nd Great Party for the Russians, after the opening match against Saudi Arabia.
The morning after that particular match, they read in the newspapers that taxes were raised and the pensionable age was increased with 5 years.

Putin's team knows when to strike. >:D

Russian players will be allowed to live a bit longer, it seems... :D

8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 10:04:39 AM
Russian players will be allowed to live a bit longer, it seems... :D

8)

Vlad will arrange ANYthing.

Btw: Lasse Schöne on the pitch. Hopefully he's able to deliver more decent forward passes for the Danes.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 01, 2018, 10:33:33 AM
For football's sake Croatia better win.

Agreed but... 75:00 into the game and the perspective is not quite good.  >:(

EDIT: Spain was just a bit --- only just a bit --- better than Germany.  ;D

Go, Belgium!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 01, 2018, 10:58:48 AM
I really hoped Croatia would crush Denmark!

I was wrong!

Go, Belgium!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 11:16:06 AM
It would be great if a former refugee from Sudan with laceless shoes is going to save Denmark. :)
EDIT: not laceless, my mistake. He just doesn't tie them.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 11:26:06 AM
Oops.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 01, 2018, 11:32:21 AM
It would be great if a former refugee from Sudan with laceless shoes is going to save Denmark. :)
EDIT: not laceless, my mistake. He just doesn't tie them.

The Devil may care! I, for one, don't care anymore!  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 11:39:29 AM
Oops. Oops.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 11:44:58 AM
Funny.
Both goalies seem to pick a corner.

So the solution should be: right in the middle. Hard. Without mercy.
And now it's through the middle. Yet with mercy.

What a series.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 11:47:26 AM
Croatia escapes... at least Rakitic and Modric scored the penalty kick in the decisive series.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 01, 2018, 11:51:01 AM
Go, Croatia!

It would be great if a former refugee from Sudan with laceless shoes is going to save Denmark. :)
EDIT: not laceless, my mistake. He just doesn't tie them.

Jeszcze Europe nie zginęła!

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on July 01, 2018, 11:52:34 AM
Hey, that's Polish!

Europa još nije umrla.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 01, 2018, 11:57:15 AM
Hey, that's Polish!

I know!  ;D

Quote
Europa još nije umrla.

Europa n-a murit! (Romanian)  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: (: premont :) on July 01, 2018, 02:52:29 PM
Croatia escapes... at least Rakitic and Modric scored the penalty kick in the decisive series.

All in all Croatias "efforts" didn't impress me.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 01, 2018, 07:07:20 PM
All in all Croatias "efforts" didn't impress me.

In a hidden way, that's what I meant to say. I did expect more from them. And I'm convinced they could have done a much better job in this match.

It's a pity that many talented squads are too afraid, cautious or nervous to be themselves in the knock-out series... just because the stakes are 'so high'.
You probably remember the Danish squads of a.o. EC 1984 and WC 1986, and even EC 1992. They just played football the way they wanted to.
As did Brazil and France in 1982 and 1986, and the Dutch team in 1974, 1978 and 1988.
And the Germans from 2006 to 2016.
No fear of losing. Just try to score more goals than your opponent. And if you lose, at least you didn't betray your own spirit.
IMHO, such teams make football attractive.

It's an attitude that has become a rarity in football during the last decades. That's why I'm rooting for the Belgians this year. It seems they have shaken off their 'fears'. But... they still have to play their first knock-out match. Let's wait, see, and keep the fingers crossed.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 01, 2018, 11:19:15 PM
In a hidden way, that's what I meant to say. I did expect more from them. And I'm convinced they could have done a much better job in this match.

It's a pity that many talented squads are too afraid, cautious or nervous to be themselves in the knock-out series... just because the stakes are 'so high'.
You probably remember the Danish squads of a.o. EC 1984 and WC 1986, and even EC 1992. They just played football the way they wanted to.
As did Brazil and France in 1982 and 1986, and the Dutch team in 1974, 1978 and 1988.
And the Germans from 2006 to 2016.
No fear of losing. Just try to score more goals than your opponent. And if you lose, at least you didn't betray your own spirit.
IMHO, such teams make football attractive.

It's an attitude that has become a rarity in football during the last decades. That's why I'm rooting for the Belgians this year. It seems they have shaken off their 'fears'. But... they still have to play their first knock-out match. Let's wait, see, and keep the fingers crossed.

Agreed on all accounts.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 02, 2018, 10:16:10 AM
Another shocker in the making...?

Belgium took it too easy I think, they allowed Japan to build confidence by not disturbing their passing game.
And Carrasco is a weak link IMO... I expected him to be substituted during half time.

On Belgian (and Dutch) telly everyone was already talking about a quarter final between Brazil and Belgium... I fear it's not gonna happen.

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 02, 2018, 10:29:03 AM
Another shocker in the making...?

Belgium took it too easy I think, they allowed Japan to build confidence by not disturbing their passing game.
And Carrasco is a weak link IMO... I expected him to be substituted during half time.

On Belgian (and Dutch) telly everyone was already talking about a quarter final between Brazil and Belgium... I fear it's not gonna happen.

Japan lost my sympathy with their lazy match against Poland.
Now they play smart and are doing what Belgium should have been doing from the start: early hunting to force mistakes.

OOPS.

Now Belgium is lucky with a header of Jan Vertonghen.

This match could get more and more interesting.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 02, 2018, 10:32:43 AM
[…]

This match could get more and more interesting.

WOW.
Fellaini!
They've woken up!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 02, 2018, 10:54:24 AM
Great break in the dying seconds.

But I really feel sad for Japan. They were great.

This was a very sympathetic match, with (almost) no dirty fouls.

Thumbs up for both squads.

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on July 02, 2018, 10:57:27 AM
OMG!

At least it was a quick death.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Dima on July 02, 2018, 09:57:04 PM
Dmitriy Masleev (the winner of the last Tchaikovsky piano competition) plays piano transcription of "Football" of Schostakovich.
It was played on concert as bis in support of Russian team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTkUOroGEAk
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2018, 10:16:46 PM
Dmitriy Masleev (the winner of the last Tchaikovsky piano competition) plays piano transcription of "Football" of Schostakovich.
It was played on concert as bis in support of Russian team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTkUOroGEAk
Yes, Shostakovich was a great football fan.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2018, 10:18:16 PM
Great break in the dying seconds.

But I really feel sad for Japan. They were great.

This was a very sympathetic match, with (almost) no dirty fouls.

Thumbs up for both squads.

Yes, was heartbreaking for Japan - they gave us great pleasure.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 02, 2018, 10:29:39 PM
Great break in the dying seconds.

But I really feel sad for Japan. They were great.

This was a very sympathetic match, with (almost) no dirty fouls.

Thumbs up for both squads.

Yes.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Dima on July 02, 2018, 10:33:41 PM
I think for Belgium it will be easier with Brazil than with Japan, because Brazilians are more showmen.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 02, 2018, 11:31:32 PM
I think for Belgium it will be easier with Brazil than with Japan, because Brazilians are more showmen.

OTOH: the shows of guys like cry baby Neymar (pretending to be dying about a dozen times per match) can be very distracting and disturbing, slowing down the game et cetera, and eventually leading to irritation and worse gameplay. Neymar knows that, and he uses it to his advantage. The entire Brazilian squad knows it, too. Other opponents have fallen for those tricks. So the Belgians have to keep their cool.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 03:44:39 AM
Russia looks very good, I am not saying that they are doping.  :-\
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 03:48:33 AM
I have to comment.
Overall, the game is screaming to be brought into the 21st century.

Other than that, it has been great fun so far. If England loses today, all is right!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 04:01:01 AM
I have to comment.
Overall, the game is screaming to be brought into the 21st century.

Care to elaborate? What features would a "21st century football game" display?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2018, 04:19:00 AM
Care to elaborate? What features would a "21st century football game" display?

I can make an educated guess, but I think that the VAR is one of them.

Some of my other wishes are (not sure if eljr meant this, too):
- yellow cards for schwalbes and pretending, and for berating the ref
- 30 or 35 minutes of 'pure' playtime for each half; clock stopped during breaks and whatever
- (even) more decisions after checking VAR

(And I've got plenty more.)

I watched a high level rugby match a few years ago, and a huge fellow was mocking the ref's decision. The ref, a small guy, said loud and clear: "you play rugby, I do the refereeing. You do your job, I do mine. One more sound from you and you'll be send off." And the huge fellow was immediately silent and joined the scrum.

I like football, but all those cry and scream babies make me puke sometimes, I have to admit. (As do some of their coaches.)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 04:27:29 AM
Care to elaborate? What features would a "21st century football game" display?

Not really or I would have.

But I will now that you asked.

As I enjoy many sports futbol pops out to me every time I watch it for it's inexactness. It would be so easy to simply stop the clock in this day and age when there is a stoppage for example.

Then we have the problem with the refs, missing so much and interpreting so individually. Camera use has helped but not nearly as much as it has in other sports. It has taken way too long to implement and not being maximized yet. 

And now it seems football tackling is the norm and we have no rules that would end this.

Was it the Belgium striker who was taken down by the defender, from behind, after beating the last defender and goalie! And not even a red card?
Rules for such blatant violations need to be created. In a case like that, the goal should be awarded and the player tossed, at the least.

Offside continues to be a guessing game, we need new rules on what is off sides. Little kids can't even understand the stupid rule until they are around 12 or 13 years old.

It rally lessens my enjoyment of the game to see all these things in every match.

FIFA is old and it shows.




Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 04:56:02 AM
Not really or I would have.

But I will now that you asked.

As I enjoy many sports futbol pops out to me every time I watch it for it's inexactness. It would be so easy to simply stop the clock in this day and age when there is a stoppage for example.

Then we have the problem with the refs, missing so much and interpreting so individually. Camera use has helped but not nearly as much as it has in other sports. It has taken way too long to implement and not being maximized yet. 

And now it seems football tackling is the norm and we have no rules that would end this.

Was it the Belgium striker who was taken down by the defender, from behind, after beating the last defender and goalie! And not even a red card?
Rules for such blatant violations need to be created. In a case like that, the goal should be awarded and the player tossed, at the least.

Offside continues to be a guessing game, we need new rules on what is off sides. Little kids can't even understand the stupid rule until they are around 12 or 13 years old.

It rally lessens my enjoyment of the game to see all these things in every match.

FIFA is old and it shows.

I see. You'd like to see football turned into an exact science.  :laugh:

I disagree. Save for blatant errors, which are few and far between on average, the rules are sufficiently clear and enforceable, and offside is one of the clearest.

I do agree there is a problem, but it has far less to do with rules and their enforcement as it has with playing the game in itself. Poster Marc has made some great points in this respect.

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 05:00:45 AM
I watched a high level rugby match a few years ago, and a huge fellow was mocking the ref's decision. The ref, a small guy, said loud and clear: "you play rugby, I do the refereeing. You do your job, I do mine. One more sound from you and you'll be send off." And the huge fellow was immediately silent and joined the scrum.

Hear, hear!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 05:09:29 AM
I see. You'd like to see football turned into an exact science.  :laugh:

I disagree. Save for blatant errors, which are few and far between on average, the rules are sufficiently clear and enforceable, and offside is one of the clearest.

I do agree there is a problem, but it has far less to do with rules and their enforcement as it has with playing the game in itself. Poster Marc has made some great points in this respect.

The rules should be an exact science, yes. The athletes themselves should provide the outcome.

I respect that you disagree and prefer arbitrariness and chance not earthed in the athlete's performance. 

And if you think you disagree with me on this, you should be glad you are not here in the states where my views on how the USA Soccer Federation is destroying the game here is assaulted by all with a vested interest! ;)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 06:13:27 AM
The rules should be an exact science, yes.

The rules are exact. But, as with every other rule in every other field, the big question is: who and how enforces them?

The referee is a human being, and as such, even the most scrupulous of them is prone to error. The best one can do is to have the most controversial moments double-checked ---  and this is exactlty what the VAR is for. I'd say that on average it did its job and should be continued, even extended. But short of stopping the game every three minutes to minutiously check the video, the complete and incontrovertible exclusion / correction of errors is well-nigh impossible.

Quote
The athletes themselves should provide the outcome.

That sounds very good on paper but in real life it's oftenly the athlete themselves who create the problems and the ambiguity, as Marc correctly pointed out. The task of asking the possible correction of an error (or for that matter every other interaction with the referee) should be assigned solely and exclusively to the captain in the field (as is the case in rugby) or to the coach on the bench. Each protestation or simulation should result in the other team being given a free kick 10 meters towards the goal. (In this I agree that some rules should be changed. :) )

Quote
I respect that you disagree and prefer arbitrariness and chance not earthed in the athlete's performance.


I emphatically do not. Either I have expressed myself obscurely, or you completely misunderstood me. I hope the above might clarify things a bit.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 06:16:09 AM
Switzerland - Sweden, the dullest, most uninteresting match so far (France-Denmark and England-Belgium excluded).  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 06:38:39 AM
Switzerland - Sweden, the dullest, most uninteresting match so far (France-Denmark and England-Belgium excluded).  ;D

Finally we agree!

Go Sweden!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 06:43:04 AM
Finally we agree!

I'm quite sure we would agree on many things were it not for this darned politics!  :D  :P
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2018, 06:57:43 AM
Sweden: sly assassin.

Lucky 'goal' by Forsberg, who btw is the only creative footballer of this squad.
But for the entire team (spirit), the farewell of Ibrahimovic seems to work fine.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 07:00:16 AM
The rules are exact. But, as with every other rule in every other field, the big question is: who and how enforces them?

The referee is a human being, and as such, even the most scrupulous of them is prone to error. The best one can do is to have the most controversial moments double-checked ---  and this is exactlty what the VAR is for. I'd say that on average it did its job and should be continued, even extended. But short of stopping the game every three minutes to minutiously check the video, the complete and incontrovertible exclusion / correction of errors is well-nigh impossible.


Not at all. Simply give both coaches two challenges per match. If the coach is correct and ref wrong they retain the challenge. Plus, honest, there is so much time in soccer where nothing is really happening but the clock runs that stopping the game is simply not valid, objectively. I do understand and respect those that have played and watched the game for decades and do not care about anything but tradition.

AVR in soccer is terrible right now, they really could learn from America sport and should.


Quote
That sounds very good on paper but in real life it's oftenly the athlete themselves who create the problems and the ambiguity, as Marc correctly pointed out. The task of asking the possible correction of an error (or for that matter every other interaction with the referee) should be assigned solely and exclusively to the captain in the field (as is the case in rugby) or to the coach on the bench. Each protestation or simulation should result in the other team being given a free kick 10 meters towards the goal. (In this I agree that some rules should be changed. :) )

We could come to an agreement if we continued the talk.
Players are overwhelming wrong and should never be allowed to challenge.  We see this daily in American sports.

People/players always believe what benefits them or what they perceive will benefit them. Hence the rise of Trump in the states.
 

Quote
I emphatically do not. Either I have expressed myself obscurely, or you completely misunderstood me. I hope the above might clarify things a bit.

Your definition of exact and mine are different. I am much less willing to settle so from my perspective my statement is true about you.

-----------------------

Good example of soccer needing change, the Swed just taken down. Called correctly but I do not like that rule as the player is highly likely to score if not taken down. A free kick from there is much less likely to result in a goal. So a red card and free kick is preferable to not breaking the rule by fouling. The penalty should be greater than the infraction if you want to stop the infractions. 
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 07:04:30 AM
I'm quite sure we would agree on many things were it not for this darned politics!  :D  :P

Agree or not I am but a student of classical music even at my advanced years.  In that arena I would only learn from you.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 07:05:28 AM
We could come to an agreement if we continued the talk.

I have no doubt about it. Add some beer and it's a sealed deal!  :laugh:
 
Quote
The penalty should be greater than the infraction if you want to stop the infractions.

I agree wholeheartedly, but --- how about the infraction of illegally crossing the US border? Does it qualify?  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 07:06:36 AM
Agree or not I am but a student of classical music even at my advanced users and in that arena I would not often do anything but learn from you.

Too many negatives in this sentence for my non-native English speaker self. Is it meant as a compliment?  :)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 07:09:44 AM
Too many negatives in this sentence for my non-native English speaker self. Is it meant as a compliment?  :)

I was saying I am really stupid when it comes you classical music and I would be wise to simply learn from you and other posters here.

So if you think you knowledge of classical a positive, it was indeed a compliment.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 03, 2018, 07:12:47 AM

I agree wholeheartedly, but --- how about the infraction of illegally crossing the US border? Does it qualify?  ;D

As with sport and crime, motive becomes the differentiator.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 07:19:57 AM
I was saying I am really stupid when it comes you classical music and I would be wise to simply learn from you and other posters here.

Oh, come on, don't sell yourself cheap! You're not at all stupid when it comes to classical music. We all like what we like, period.  :laugh:

Quote
So if you think you knowledge of classical a positive, it was indeed a compliment.

I don't think my knowledge of classical music is that positive, but thank you anyway!  :)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 07:22:19 AM
As with sport and crime, motive becomes the differentiator.

And who judges the motive, if not a human (and as such prone to error) referee?  Give me the best and minutest legislation in the world, the question still remains: who, and where, are the best and minutest judges in the world? :)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on July 03, 2018, 12:14:33 PM
WoW! England win....on penalties! The world really is coming to an end!  ??? ::) :laugh:
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 03, 2018, 01:27:37 PM
WoW! England win....on penalties! The world really is coming to an end!  ??? ::) :laugh:

I am still totally shell-shocked by this. The goalkeeper has had some criticism before now but I thought that he played very well in the match which augured well for the penalties. Had to have several glasses of red wine to calm my nerves down after the match. Long live Harry Kane!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 03, 2018, 01:29:44 PM
My brother-in-law lives in Sweden with his Swedish partner and children. This could cause a conflict of interests next Saturday.
 8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on July 03, 2018, 10:03:13 PM
I am still totally shell-shocked by this. The goalkeeper has had some criticism before now but I thought that he played very well in the match which augured well for the penalties. Had to have several glasses of red wine to calm my nerves down after the match. Long live Harry Kane!
I feel like they've just gotten into their own heads for so long - so nice to see them dispel that. I think they have a good chance in the next match.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 03, 2018, 11:11:42 PM
The curse is over.  :D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 04, 2018, 02:47:17 AM
The curse is over.  :D

With much help of course.

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news/articles/international/categories/world-cup-2018/radamel-falcao-accuses-referee-of-england-bias/297630

First thing I though of as the matched progressed was that this ref was a Trumpet.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 04, 2018, 03:44:03 AM
With much help of course.

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news/articles/international/categories/world-cup-2018/radamel-falcao-accuses-referee-of-england-bias/297630

First thing I though of as the matched progressed was that this ref was a Trumpet.

You, sir, are irremediably obsessed.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on July 04, 2018, 04:01:37 AM
With much help of course.

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news/articles/international/categories/world-cup-2018/radamel-falcao-accuses-referee-of-england-bias/297630

First thing I though of as the matched progressed was that this ref was a Trumpet.
He's a brass tubed instrument with valves? Is there another meaning I am unfamiliar with?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: NikF on July 04, 2018, 04:23:49 AM
He's a brass tubed instrument with valves? Is there another meaning I am unfamiliar with?

Decades ago it was in popular use in the UK. Example: "Away ye go, ya fu**in' trumpet, ye!" - to suggest someone is an ignorant blowhard, spouting uninformed BS with a dash of blaring smug prig. And I'm sure I've heard it at football matches, aimed at both the referee and linesmen. Having said that, the most popular chant remains "The referee's a wanker".

e: further (and better) example -

Amateur photographer: "I'm going to start work on my autumn series of photos, during which I'll seek to clearly illustrate a firm line indicating the difference between art and commerce"

Pro photographer: "Shut it, ya fu**in' trumpet."

 ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 04, 2018, 06:04:21 AM
He's a brass tubed instrument with valves? Is there another meaning I am unfamiliar with?

Trumpet, slang for Trumpist.

A Trumpet/Trumpist is a hateful, vengeful soul who worships an orange deity while claiming white supremacy. The irony is lost on them.
They are know to be highly hypocritical and unwavered by truth. 
There is a sense of entitlement that they feel  has been repressed by main stream and liberal philosophies that embrace the concept that all men are created equal.
One of the note worth hypocrisies they engage in is the bastardization of their own Christian values with new self serving interpretations of bible and their religious tenets.

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 04, 2018, 09:16:17 AM
Trumpet, slang for Trumpist.

A Trumpet/Trumpist is a hateful, vengeful soul who worships an orange deity while claiming white supremacy. The irony is lost on them.
They are know to be highly hypocritical and unwavered by truth. 
There is a sense of entitlement that they feel  has been repressed by main stream and liberal philosophies that embrace the concept that all men are created equal.
One of the note worth hypocrisies they engage in is the bastardization of their own Christian values with new self serving interpretations of bible and their religious tenets.

Hope this helps!

What has all this got to do with the World Cup? You, sir, are clearly and positively obsessed.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 04, 2018, 11:08:06 AM
What has all this got to do with the World Cup? You, sir, are clearly and positively obsessed.

The only other time I was so "obsessed" was when Sarah Palin was running for VP. She was another fuircake elevated to levels that put us at risk and was juxtaposed to decent values.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2018, 09:19:02 PM
I feel like they've just gotten into their own heads for so long - so nice to see them dispel that. I think they have a good chance in the next match.

Thanks. I hope so.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 04, 2018, 09:24:00 PM
With much help of course.

https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news/articles/international/categories/world-cup-2018/radamel-falcao-accuses-referee-of-england-bias/297630

First thing I though of as the matched progressed was that this ref was a Trumpet.

I don't think that Colombia deserved to win although I'm biased of course. They committed loads of fouls including one of their officials elbowing one of the England team as they went off for half-time. Definitely a case of sour grapes as far as I'm concerned. The crowd were hostile towards England and, in the circumstances, I think that the England team deserved their victory.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 04, 2018, 10:55:01 PM
I don't think that Colombia deserved to win although I'm biased of course. They committed loads of fouls including one of their officials elbowing one of the England team as they went off for half-time. Definitely a case of sour grapes as far as I'm concerned. The crowd were hostile towards England and, in the circumstances, I think that the England team deserved their victory.

With matches like these, I just turn the telly off. Waste of time.
Not because of their football talent(s), but because of their behaviour I'm happy that Colombia didn't win this one.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 04, 2018, 11:30:47 PM
I don't think that Colombia deserved to win although I'm biased of course. They committed loads of fouls including one of their officials elbowing one of the England team as they went off for half-time. Definitely a case of sour grapes as far as I'm concerned. The crowd were hostile towards England and, in the circumstances, I think that the England team deserved their victory.

With matches like these, I just turn the telly off. Waste of time.
Not because of their football talent(s), but because of their behaviour I'm happy that Colombia didn't win this one.

+ 1.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 05, 2018, 02:52:41 AM
I root for Uruguay, Croatia, Belgium and England (I have an irrational grudge against Sweden ever since they eliminated Romania after penalty kicks at World Cup 1994 and went to semi-finals in our stead  ;D ).
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 05, 2018, 03:08:47 AM
I can't help myself.

Heja Sverige!

(https://images2.imgbox.com/5e/9b/4YCQDZ0Q_o.jpg)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 05, 2018, 03:25:40 AM
I can't help myself.

Heja Sverige!

(https://images2.imgbox.com/5e/9b/4YCQDZ0Q_o.jpg)

If you put it this way...  :laugh:

England is highly competitive, though.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/10/09/472D209200000578-5164163-image-m-4_1512898942345.jpg)

The also have a milder climate, and it shows. Honestly it suits me finer than Sweden's  ;D  :-*
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 05, 2018, 04:15:03 AM
I can't help myself.

Heja Sverige!

(https://images2.imgbox.com/5e/9b/4YCQDZ0Q_o.jpg)

If you put it this way...  :laugh:

England is highly competitive, though.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/10/09/472D209200000578-5164163-image-m-4_1512898942345.jpg)

The also have a milder climate, and it shows. Honestly it suits me finer than Sweden's  ;D  :-*

I.c. the climate: I prefer the Scandinavian climate. The English climate is depressing. This is already known since the days of Astérix. And remember the Walrus: "Sitting in an English garden, waiting for the sun. If the sun don't come, you get a tan from standing in the English rain."
I.c. Her Majesty's Blonde: you made your point(s). In fact, I am even willing to admit that your Limey's Lady is more stylishly dressed than my Svenska Flicka. She certainly knows how to keep up her appearance (like almost all English ladies, btw).
But of course I was only referring to the music, not to the looks.
I just wanted to make that clear.
(I feel relieved now.)

:)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 05, 2018, 04:25:00 AM
I.c. the climate: I prefer the Scandinavian climate. The English climate is depressing. This is already known since the days of Astérix. And remember the Walrus: "Sitting in an English garden, waiting for the sun. If the sun don't come, you get a tan from standing in the English rain."

Fair point. Honestly, for a Southerner like me the English climate is jus as bad the Swedish one. The closest I got to it was living in The Netherlands for more than a year, and I just  hated the rain, the rain, the rain, the never, never, never, never ending rain...

Quote
I.c. Her Majesty's Blonde: you made your point(s). In fact, I am even willing to admit that your Limey's Lady is more stylishly dressed than my Svenska Flicka. She certainly knows how to keep up her appearance (like almost all English ladies, btw).

Hell, yeah! Do I love this "what you see is what you get" attitude.  :D

Quote
But of course I was only referring to the music, not to the looks.
I just wanted to make that clear.
(I feel relieved now.)

:)

|Oh, I'll certainly give you ABBA over Samantha Fox any time of the day. As for me, I prefer Schubert to both.  >:D :P

Just kidding, I actually prefer BZN.  :-*


Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 05, 2018, 04:27:09 AM
Fair point. Honestly, for a Southerner like me the English climate is jus as bad the Swedish one. The closest I got to it was living in The Netherlands for more than a year, and I just  hated the rain, the rain, the rain, the never, never, never, never ending rain...

Hell, yeah! Do I love this "what you see is what you get" attitude.  :D

|Oh, I'll certainly give you ABBA over Samantha Fox any time of the day. As for me, I prefer Schubert to both.  >:D :P

Just kidding, I actually prefer BZN.  :-*

Of all these, BZN most certainly has got most inventive bass parts!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 05, 2018, 04:30:56 AM
Of all these, BZN most certainly has got most inventive bass parts!

Seriously now, I wouldn't go as far as to put their bass above Schubert's but I quite like their music. It's one of my (many) guilty pleasures in this respect.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on July 05, 2018, 05:41:40 AM
My predictions:
France over Uruguay
Belgium over Brazil
Russia over Croatia
England over Sweden

Not necessarily what I want to happen.  I will be rooting for Croatia.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 05, 2018, 05:43:48 AM
I will be rooting for Croatia.

A man after my own heart.  :-*
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 05, 2018, 09:00:10 AM
Seriously now, I wouldn't go as far as to put their bass above Schubert's but I quite like their music. It's one of my (many) guilty pleasures in this respect.

Not to worry, I wasn't serious.
And don't feel guilty about pleasures, I would like to add. ;)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 05, 2018, 10:32:09 AM
Disturbing:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/983716/england-colombia-fifa-world-cup-2018-penalties-death-threats-escobar
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 05, 2018, 01:55:06 PM
My predictions:
France over Uruguay
Belgium over Brazil
Russia over Croatia
England over Sweden

Not necessarily what I want to happen.  I will be rooting for Croatia.

Who I'd like to win,
Uruguay
Belgium
Croatia
Sweden

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 05, 2018, 03:06:49 PM
My predictions:
France over Uruguay
Belgium over Brazil
Russia over Croatia
England over Sweden

Not necessarily what I want to happen.  I will be rooting for Croatia.

For me,

Croatia
Uruguay
England
Belgium

No hope for that lineup, but there you have it. :)

8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2018, 12:39:03 AM
Who I'd like to win,
Uruguay
Belgium
Croatia
Sweden

What? No England!  :o :'( 8)

I think that France have a good chance of winning the whole thing.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 06, 2018, 06:39:16 AM


I think that France have a good chance of winning the whole thing.

They can sure throw themselves to the ground and roll around as good as anybody.

I am so sick of the horrible officiating of which allowing this is a part.

It is just so hard for this American to enjoy soccer with all the manifestations of poor control of the rules.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on July 06, 2018, 08:58:01 AM
Brazil, Belgium... the two best teams in the tournament so far, imho.

Here goes....

0-0 after 120 minutes?  Or a slugfest?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 06, 2018, 09:45:54 AM
I'm not entirely 'happy' with Belgium not chasing after the ball at an earlier stage, but Brazil didn't manage to punish them, and with a.o. De Bruyne in a different position, Belgium seems more dangerous in ball possession than ever before during this tournament.
2-0 for my neighbours. It's impressive (so far).

And luckilly, so far also a very good match, without much dirtly little fouls and diving.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 06, 2018, 10:00:55 AM
Brazil, Belgium... the two best teams in the tournament



totally agree

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 06, 2018, 10:40:12 AM
Brazil deserved a penalty kick earlier in the 2nd half.
Now it's 2-1... Belgium needs soms substitutions, otherwise they could get slaughtered like they slaughtered Japan themselves.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 06, 2018, 10:44:47 AM
Lukaku off... strange.
I would have picked one of the tired looking midfielders…
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 06, 2018, 10:51:14 AM
Neymar just can't help himself. That was a little foul on him, he dived almost into the back of the net and this ref doesn't appreciate his theatre.

Brazil deserves an equalizer though. Just 3 minutes to 'fix' that.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 06, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
Congrats to me neighbours.
They were the luckiest in a great and exciting match.

Hehe… here, in the north of NL, there are now some crazy Dutchmen doing a little fireworks spectacle.

This Brazilian team was much better than their squad in 2014, yet they didn't get that far.

So, it's France against Belgium for the 1st semi-final, isn't it? Very interesting.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 06, 2018, 11:10:03 AM
A very good game. Belgium was better in the first half, Brazil in the second. They would have deserved an equalizer but all in all I am pleased with the result. And I agree with all of Marc's comments.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Ken B on July 06, 2018, 05:14:35 PM
They can sure throw themselves to the ground and roll around as good as anybody.

I am so sick of the horrible officiating of which allowing this is a part.

It is just so hard for this American to enjoy soccer with all the manifestations of poor control of the rules.

It's a cheater's game.
 [insert snarky comment about that's why it’s popular in Europe here]
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2018, 11:52:52 AM
Russia - Croatia: insane intensity.

(Earlier today I fell asleep during Sweden - England.)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 07, 2018, 11:55:52 AM
Russia - Croatia: insane intensity.

(Earlier today I fell asleep during Sweden - England.)

Конец Фильма.

I'ms sorry to say I can't feel sorry for the Russians.  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 07, 2018, 11:59:36 AM
Well, 2 of my teams won today. Have to be happy about that! Be interesting to see if Croatia can field a team Wednesday, especially in goal. Hard match today!

8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
Конец Фильма.

I'ms sorry to say I can't feel sorry for the Russians.  ;D

The Russians fought like lions.
Of the 32 participating countries they were last in the FIFA-rankings. Internal fights, problems with the coach, and bad results in their friendly matches.
In the end, they have performed far better than expected. Of course the support of the home crowd was a plus, but I really did not expect them doing so (relatively) well.

This was the last match in Sochi, wasn't it?
Pity. I liked the Russian speaker/announcer. He would have been excellent as deacon in a Russian-Orthodox service.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2018, 12:08:55 PM
Well, 2 of my teams won today. Have to be happy about that! […]

Baby, you're a rich man?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 07, 2018, 12:17:00 PM
The Russians fought like lions.
Of the 32 participating countries they were last in the FIFA-rankings. Internal fights, problems with the coach, and bad results in their friendly matches.
In the end, they have performed far better than expected. Of course the support of the home crowd was a plus, but I really did not expect them doing so (relatively) well.

All true and I didn't either. Were they surely behind Saudi Arabia or Panama in ranking, though?

But think of it this way: a Brazilian first saved and then buried them.  :laugh:

Quote
This was the last match in Sochi, wasn't it?

Yes. From now on, only St. Petersburg and Moscow.

Quote
Pity. I liked the Russian speaker/announcer. He would have been excellent as deacon in a Russian-Orthodox service.

 :D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 07, 2018, 12:19:30 PM
Congrats to England and  Croatia!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2018, 12:30:00 PM
All true and I didn't either. Were they surely behind Saudi Arabia or Panama in ranking, though?
[…]

Yeah. Even Japan was behind Panama.
Russia 70, Saudi-Arabia 67, Japan 61, South Korea 57, Panama 55.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/index.html
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 07, 2018, 12:48:21 PM
Yeah. Even Japan was behind Panama.
Russia 70, Saudi-Arabia 67, Japan 61, South Korea 57, Panama 55.

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/index.html

Russia and Japan were far ahead their rankings.

Now, I would just love to see a final Belgium-Croatia but I'm afraid we'll have France-England instead, in which case I'll root for the referee.  :laugh:
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2018, 12:55:35 PM
Russia and Japan were far ahead their rankings.

Now, I would just love to see a final Belgium-Croatia but I'm afraid we'll have France-England instead, in which case I'll root for the referee.  :laugh:

If the ref is Dutch, I might join you. ;)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 07, 2018, 01:53:25 PM
Russia and Japan were far ahead their rankings.

Now, I would just love to see a final Belgium-Croatia but I'm afraid we'll have France-England instead, in which case I'll root for the referee.  :laugh:

At the end of the first round I thought Belgium looked the best in the tournament along with Portugal and Spain.

After the first elimination round I put Brazil and Belgium as the two best.

Now I must stay with Belgium as they have looked the best to me.

But, it's soccer and more than any other sport the best team does not always win.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 07, 2018, 03:19:58 PM
Baby, you're a rich man?

Oh, dear no! Can't wager on something as unpredictable as futbol! :D

8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2018, 07:06:34 AM
Russia - Croatia: insane intensity.

(Earlier today I fell asleep during Sweden - England.)

'Fell asleep.... :o'

I watched the match in a pub in Rye East Sussex, the atmosphere was electric. Decades of national humiliation reversed.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Ken B on July 08, 2018, 07:55:22 AM
'Fell asleep.... :o'

I watched the match in a pub in Rye East Sussex, the atmosphere was electric. Decades of national humiliation reversed.

That was the Brexit vote.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 08, 2018, 08:06:17 AM
That was the Brexit vote.

Yeah.
And, who knows, a Brexit finale in the making?

BRUXELLES vs ENGLAND, MY ENGLAND?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2018, 10:57:40 PM
They should put Gareth Southgate in charge of the Brexit negotiations.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 10, 2018, 09:59:30 AM
So far, Belgium is not really able to reach Lukaku.

Chadli should move to the left, he's not at ease.
Hazard more to the centre, De Bruyne to the right.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 10, 2018, 10:36:37 AM
Given his play in earlier matches, I doubt it's a good sign to bring Carrasco in to make things better.

Belgium is certainly the most positive and forward thinking squad, but I fear that defensive France is going to outsmart them.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: DaveF on July 10, 2018, 11:44:35 AM
Brave little Belgium...

Remarkable statistic mentioned on the BBC: that during the competition they've beaten sides from all 5 of the FIFA confederations: Europe (England), North America (Panama), South America (Brazil), Africa (Tunisia), Asia (Japan).  So really they're world champs already.

Now can we just give the cup to France and go home?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 11, 2018, 09:30:22 PM
Heartbreak for England fans last night but Croatia were the stronger team. Sadly with no Argentina, Germany, Brazil and Spain left in the competition England never had a better chance of getting into the World Cup Final.
 :-\
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 11, 2018, 09:41:29 PM
What I miss most in this tournament (and in modern football in general) are the daredevils who aren't afraid to make an individual action to split defenses open. It's all passing passing passing. That's why I'm gonna miss a guy like Eden Hazard next Sunday. He was one of the few exceptions, along with Neymar and Christiano Ronaldo. The latter are also cry babies though, and I don't like that at all.
Of course Messi is a daredevil, too, but not that much when he's playing for Argentina. He doesn't really seem at ease when he's not playing for/with Barça.

Anyway, I think I will 'support' Croatia in the Finale, and Belgium for 3rd place.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2018, 12:59:43 AM
What I miss most in this tournament (and in modern football in general) are the daredevils who aren't afraid to make an individual action to split defenses open. It's all passing passing passing. That's why I'm gonna miss a guy like Eden Hazard next Sunday. He was one of the few exceptions, along with Neymar and Christiano Ronaldo. The latter are also cry babies though, and I don't like that at all.
Of course Messi is a daredevil, too, but not that much when he's playing for Argentina. He doesn't really seem at ease when he's not playing for/with Barça.

Anyway, I think I will 'support' Croatia in the Finale, and Belgium for 3rd place.

I think I'll be supporting Croatia too but I hope that the England reserves win the other, somewhat meaningless, match.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Christo on July 12, 2018, 01:22:50 AM
Decades of national humiliation reversed.
The English nation humiliated? By WHOM?? Were it the Cornish, Welsh, Manx, Scots, Irish, Channel Islanders, or perhaps our naughty Belgian neighbours?  ???
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2018, 01:37:40 AM
The English nation humiliated? By WHOM?? Were it the Cornish, Welsh, Manx, Scots, Irish, Channel Islanders, or perhaps our naughty Belgian neighbours?  ???
Most recently by Iceland
 8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 12, 2018, 02:53:18 AM
The English nation humiliated? By WHOM?? Were it the Cornish, Welsh, Manx, Scots, Irish, Channel Islanders, or perhaps our naughty Belgian neighbours?  ???

LOL, I had to laugh at you taking his poke semi personal.

England had a great run, good luck vs Belgium.

--------------

Off subject, in the USA we got ride of 3rd place games.

It's a ridiculous competition. A team like Belgium will be so flat and not caring after coming to win the whole thing.
England on the other had will be sky high, happy to have gotten so far and thrilled to have a shot at 3rd. They may well win in spite of Belgium being so much better a team for this reason.

They need to do away with these "unnatural" games.

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2018, 04:02:53 AM
LOL, I had to laugh at you taking his poke semi personal.

England had a great run, good luck vs Belgium.

--------------

Off subject, in the USA we got ride of 3rd place games.

It's a ridiculous competition. A team like Belgium will be so flat and not caring after coming to win the whole thing.
England on the other had will be sky high, happy to have gotten so far and thrilled to have a shot at 3rd. They may well win in spite of Belgium being so much better a team for this reason.

They need to do away with these "unnatural" games.

The view on 'Breakfast News' (BBC) was split between the game being meaningless and 'Let's go for Bronze'. I suspect that it will be England Reserves v Belgium Reserves.

Love your avatar image by the way!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 12, 2018, 04:37:47 AM
The view on 'Breakfast News' (BBC) was split between the game being meaningless and 'Let's go for Bronze'. I suspect that it will be England Reserves v Belgium Reserves.

Love your avatar image by the way!

I changed my avatar just this morning.

I have been spending time in the Trump thread and I felt like I was in outer-space.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Madiel on July 12, 2018, 04:45:56 AM
It's a ridiculous competition.

It's frequently one of the most entertaining games of the tournament.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Gurn Blanston on July 12, 2018, 05:17:28 AM
I changed my avatar just this morning.

I have been spending time in the Trump thread and I felt like I was in outer-space.

"Open the Pod Bay doors, HAL..."

"Sorry, Dave, I can't do that"

You do realize that more importantly than 3rd place is the necessity to balance the show out with 2 games, a sort of warm-up for the Big Event?  As one of our earlier vice-presidential candidates is quoted as saying "it ain't worth a bucket of warm spit'.  :)

8)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 12, 2018, 05:22:49 AM
It's frequently one of the most entertaining games of the tournament.

this has been a great set of games!

A wonderful Cup.

I say this in spite of the odious job FIFA does with the game rules and enforcing them.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on July 12, 2018, 06:18:24 AM
Croatia to take it.  #GloryToUkraine

But I like France too.  And England, and Belgium.

It's all good.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Madiel on July 12, 2018, 06:28:29 AM
#GloryToUkraine

Eh?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: amw on July 12, 2018, 06:47:23 AM
Social media thing where people who were rooting for Croatia to beat Russia spouted a lot of Ukrainian anti-Russian nationalist phrases (which in Ukraine itself are mostly heard from neo-nazi paramilitary groups, but never mind). Makes somewhat less sense in the context of Croatia-England. #ErinGoBragh would be better.

(And with Croatia-France coming up presumably: #LaValiseOuLeCerceuil, although given that something like 75% of the French team is of African descent maybe #LeChantDesAfricains would be more appropriate)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: André on July 12, 2018, 08:07:02 AM
All the players from « african descent » were born in France. Until what generation will their skin colour define them ?  ::)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2018, 09:34:49 AM
I changed my avatar just this morning.

I have been spending time in the Trump thread and I felt like I was in outer-space.

One of my favourite films - saw it eight times (as a 12/13 year old) on a the big screen in Leicester Square, London when it came out in 1968.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 12, 2018, 09:38:44 AM
"Open the Pod Bay doors, HAL..."

"Sorry, Dave, I can't do that"

You do realize that more importantly than 3rd place is the necessity to balance the show out with 2 games, a sort of warm-up for the Big Event?  As one of our earlier vice-presidential candidates is quoted as saying "it ain't worth a bucket of warm spit'.  :)

8)

Douglas Rain, the voice of HAL, is still around - a reclusive Canadian actor who never gives interviews. I guess that Andre might know about him as a fellow Canadian.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Zeus on July 12, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
#GloryToUkraine

Social media thing where people who were rooting for Croatia to beat Russia spouted a lot of Ukrainian anti-Russian nationalist phrases (which in Ukraine itself are mostly heard from neo-nazi paramilitary groups, but never mind).

Domagoj Vida, one of the Croatian players who earlier played for Dynamo Kyiv, said "slava Ukraina" after the Croatia-Russia match, and since then the Russian media has been beating up on the Croatian team, and on Vida in particular.  Not surprisingly, since then, Vida has gotten boos from the Russian crowd every time he has touched the ball during a game.  One of the Croatian trainers was even sent home to try to quell the controversy, to no effect.

The phrase itself "slava ukraina" is pretty harmless stuff, literally "Glory to Ukraine", but made particularly poignant by recent events in Maidan, and Ukrainian opposition to the Russian invasion of parts of Ukraine.  As for other possible neo-nazi paramilitary groups and their sayings, I cannot say, as they have a fairly marginal role in Ukrainian society – and even less of a role amongst Ukrainian sympathizers elsewhere – despite concerted efforts by Russian media to amplify their significance, and to paint all forms of Ukrainian patriotism (bizarrely) as Neo-Nazi fascism.

In any event, I for one admire Vida's courage, and will cheer for the Croatian team because of it.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: amw on July 12, 2018, 10:22:23 AM
All the players from « african descent » were born in France. Until what generation will their skin colour define them ?  ::)
Of course they are French, but given that France colonised large parts of Africa and treats its citizens of African descent rather poorly, they might not have particularly positive feelings towards the country of France per se.

Domagoj Vida, one of the players who earlier played for Dynamo Kyiv, said "slava Ukraina" after the Croatia-Russia match, and since then the Russian media has been beating up on the Croatian team, and Vida in particular.  Additionally, since then, Vida has gotten boos from the Russian crowd every time he has touched the ball during a game.  One of the Croatian trainers was sent home to try to quell the controversy, to no effect.

The phrase itself "slava ukraina" is pretty harmless stuff, literally "Glory to Ukraine", but made particularly poignant by recent events in Maidan, and the Ukrainian opposition to the Russian invasion of parts of Ukraine.  As for other possibly neo-nazi paramilitary groups and their sayings, I cannot say, as they have a fairly marginal role in Ukrainian society – and even less of a role amongst Ukrainian sympathizers elsewhere – despite concerted efforts by Russian media to amplify their significance and to paint Ukrainian patriotism (bizarrely) as Neo-Nazi fascism.

I admire Vida's courage, and will cheer for the Croatian team because of it.
Downplaying the role of neo-nazi groups in the post-Maidan Ukrainian government is not a great look. The speaker of parliament & several government ministers are affiliated with such groups, which is part of the reason Slava Ukraina has become so much more politically charged than necessary.

Obviously the main reason he said that is just to troll the Russians, which I totally support. Without the Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine & annexation of Crimea all these groups like the Azov Battalion would never have amounted to anything.

Anyway I am 100% behind Croatia and its trolling efforts and hopefully eventual World Cup victory.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 12, 2018, 11:37:00 AM
Go, Croatia, go!

A fantastic team and some fantastic players!

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: amw on July 12, 2018, 12:04:38 PM
They've been amazing this year—a genuine team effort instead of relying on one or two star players. (Not that being a star player seems to mean much anymore given Messi's dreadful performance.) France is apparently a slight favourite but given how many upsets Croatia has pulled off, I'm hoping for one more. Or at least some quality anti-French slogans.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Madiel on July 12, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
At least now I know why Vida kept being booed in the semifinal.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Marc on July 12, 2018, 08:15:16 PM
They've been amazing this year—a genuine team effort instead of relying on one or two star players. (Not that being a star player seems to mean much anymore given Messi's dreadful performance.) [...]

Don't underestimate the stardom of Luka Modrić. Ask people in Madrid. ;)
On the pitch, he's the (more modest than others) genius conductor of tough Team Croatia.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2018, 02:25:21 AM
Don't underestimate the stardom of Luka Modrić. Ask people in Madrid. ;)
On the pitch, he's the (more modest than others) genius conductor of tough Team Croatia.

Yes, he's an excellent player and grew up in difficult times. However I thought that he exhibited unnecessary schadenfreude in his post-match interview after the defeat of England.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2018, 09:23:16 AM
Well done Belgium for coming third. They were far better than England.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 14, 2018, 09:26:08 AM
Well done Belgium for coming third. They were far better than England.

Yes.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Brian on July 14, 2018, 11:10:21 AM
Very happy for Belgium today - hope to be similarly happy for Croatia tomorrow!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Christo on July 14, 2018, 11:32:42 AM
Saw the Belgian team winning from Brazil last week in a Cairo suburb, and saw them winning today between red alerts about missiles from Gaza on an Israeli TV screen. The Egyptians I was with were fans of Brazil, but here the Belgians were favourite. Something with Europe and underdogs.  ::)
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2018, 05:09:12 AM
Saw the Belgian team winning from Brazil last week in a Cairo suburb, and saw them winning today between red alerts about missiles from Gaza on an Israeli TV screen. The Egyptians I was with were fans of Brazil, but here the Belgians were favourite. Something with Europe and underdogs.  ::)

Sounds like you're having an interesting time!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 15, 2018, 06:39:24 AM
Entertaining So far but have the same problem with soccer that I do with hockey - penalties have too much an impact on the outcome.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: eljr on July 15, 2018, 07:50:22 AM
Entertaining So far but have the same problem with soccer that I do with hockey - penalties have too much an impact on the outcome.

it's way worse than hockey

no other sport is so determined

FIFA needs to get it's act together

the refs and video review is bush league
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 15, 2018, 09:08:41 AM
Congratulations to the French, honor to the Croatians! The former were the better team, the latter fought until the last minute but the supplementary match they had ahead of France (due to extra time and penaltty kicks) took its toll on them. An excellent match and one of the best finals ever.

But --- the free kick which resulted in Mandzukic's self goal was a gross error both of Pitana and the VAR team, a rather unpleasant spot on the otherwise quite clean record of this tournament's referee. That being said, I would respectfully suggest some Americans to abstain from commenting on football --- have you seen we Yurpeans commenting on baseball or American football?  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2018, 12:46:12 PM
Congratulations to the French, honor to the Croatians! The former were the better team, the latter fought until the last minute but the supplementary match they had ahead of France (due to extra time and penaltty kicks) took its toll on them. An excellent match and one of the best finals ever.

But --- the free kick which resulted in Mandzukic's self goal was a gross error both of Pitana and the VAR team, a rather unpleasant spot on the otherwise quite clean record of this tournament's referee. That being said, I would respectfully suggest some Americans to abstain from commenting on football --- have you seen we Yurpeans commenting on baseball or American football?  ;D
The penalty was a poor decision as well. The referee was obviously in two minds about it and it should not have been awarded. The whole game swung on two poor refereeing decisions. I do not agree that the French were the better team. Croatia was unlucky and deserved better.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Ken B on July 15, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Congratulations to the French, honor to the Croatians! The former were the better team, the latter fought until the last minute but the supplementary match they had ahead of France (due to extra time and penaltty kicks) took its toll on them. An excellent match and one of the best finals ever.

But --- the free kick which resulted in Mandzukic's self goal was a gross error both of Pitana and the VAR team, a rather unpleasant spot on the otherwise quite clean record of this tournament's referee. That being said, I would respectfully suggest some Americans to abstain from commenting on football --- have you seen we Yurpeans commenting on baseball or American football?  ;D
As a Canadian I am exempt this prohibition. Soccer is a cheater's game. You may draw what conclusions you like regarding its popularity in Europe!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Madiel on July 15, 2018, 02:45:23 PM
The better team on the day lost.

They were certainly the better team for the first hour, and really the game only swung in France's favour after some highly dubious decisions had swung the scoreboard in their favour and forced Croatia to chase the game, even more than they had been.

At halftime one of the Australian commentators said France must be asking themselves how on earth they were leading when they were playing so badly (and being made to play badly by the opposition).

This article encapsulates my views pretty well: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/07/15/decisions-world-cup-final-showed-vars-fatal-flaw-on-field-referee/

And earlier in the day a friend and I had actually been discussing how the standard of refereeing and the use of VAR had been pretty solid this tournament. Who knew they were going to save some of the worst outcomes of the tournament for its biggest match?

Still, it will go down in history as the craziest and most action-packed final for a long time.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 15, 2018, 08:15:02 PM
I do not agree that the French were the better team. Croatia was unlucky and deserved better.

The better team on the day lost.

They were certainly the better team for the first hour, and really the game only swung in France's favour after some highly dubious decisions had swung the scoreboard in their favour and forced Croatia to chase the game, even more than they had been.

At halftime one of the Australian commentators said France must be asking themselves how on earth they were leading when they were playing so badly (and being made to play badly by the opposition).

This article encapsulates my views pretty well: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/07/15/decisions-world-cup-final-showed-vars-fatal-flaw-on-field-referee/

And earlier in the day a friend and I had actually been discussing how the standard of refereeing and the use of VAR had been pretty solid this tournament. Who knew they were going to save some of the worst outcomes of the tournament for its biggest match?

Still, it will go down in history as the craziest and most action-packed final for a long time.

Actually, I changed my mind rather quickly after posting. Croatia has been robbed of their chances by bad refereeing, both on-field and VAR. For the record, I rooted for them.

The article Madiel linked to is spot on.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 15, 2018, 08:29:24 PM
Soccer is a cheater's game. You may draw what conclusions you like regarding its popularity in Europe being invented in England!

Fixed.  ;D

Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 15, 2018, 09:16:35 PM
The better team on the day lost.

They were certainly the better team for the first hour, and really the game only swung in France's favour after some highly dubious decisions had swung the scoreboard in their favour and forced Croatia to chase the game, even more than they had been.

At halftime one of the Australian commentators said France must be asking themselves how on earth they were leading when they were playing so badly (and being made to play badly by the opposition).

This article encapsulates my views pretty well: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/07/15/decisions-world-cup-final-showed-vars-fatal-flaw-on-field-referee/

And earlier in the day a friend and I had actually been discussing how the standard of refereeing and the use of VAR had been pretty solid this tournament. Who knew they were going to save some of the worst outcomes of the tournament for its biggest match?

Still, it will go down in history as the craziest and most action-packed final for a long time.

Totally agree with this. The Croatian team were dominating the match until those two poor refereeing decisions. The Telegraph article is right. It reminded me of when Frank Lampard, playing for England, had a perfectly good goal not given against Germany (VAR would have shown the ball clearly over the goal line) and it changed the whole dynamic of the game. Obviously teams can overcome bad decisions but as Modric of Croatia said two bad decisions killed the game for them.

Still, at least England broke their penalty shoot-out curse!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 16, 2018, 01:20:51 AM
In 1990 Pele predicted that an African team was going to win the FIFA World Cup by the year 2000. He was wrong by 18 years.  >:D

Griezmann should have seen the yellow card for simulation and Perisic's handball, while obvious, was not obviously intentional. I have lauded and applauded the refereeing, both on-field and VAR, all during the tournament --- how could I have guessed they saved the worst for last?  :(



Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: vandermolen on July 16, 2018, 01:44:12 AM
In 1990 Pele predicted that an African team was going to win the FIFA World Cup by the year 2000. He was wrong by 18 years.  >:D

Griezmann should have seen the yellow card for simulation and Perisic's handball, while obvious, was not obviously intentional. I have lauded and applauded the refereeing, both on-field and VAR, all during the tournament --- how could I have guessed they saved the worst for last?  :(

Yes, they did save the worst decision-making for the Final, I agree.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: (: premont :) on July 16, 2018, 01:47:30 AM
…. Perisic's handball, while obvious, was not obviously intentional.

Nothing doubtful about it. Clear and indubitable handball.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 16, 2018, 02:07:04 AM
Premont: I saw that coming.  :D

I'll give you I might have been wrong; will you give me France-Denmark a shamefully, blatantly non-combat match?
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on July 16, 2018, 02:57:27 AM
In 1990 Pele predicted that an African team was going to win the FIFA World Cup by the year 2000. He was wrong by 18 years.  >:D

Griezmann should have seen the yellow card for simulation and Perisic's handball, while obvious, was not obviously intentional. I have lauded and applauded the refereeing, both on-field and VAR, all during the tournament --- how could I have guessed they saved the worst for last?  :(

Normally, I am a bit against calling handballs, because of the arbitrary/subjective nature of the call. But in this case I think the ref got it right. Perisic opens his hand flat and moves his hand/arm out of its natural position to 'palm' it or intercept it. Maybe it was unintentional in the sense that he is trying to contort his body to do something else. But in so doing he moves his hand to intercept the ball. The problem, though, is that his arm/hand are moving and this isn't an easy call where the hand is hit by the ball without moving. Still, I'd say he got it right.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 16, 2018, 03:31:54 AM
Normally, I am a bit against calling handballs, because of the arbitrary/subjective nature of the call. But in this case I think the ref got it right. Perisic opens his hand flat and moves his hand/arm out of its natural position to 'palm' it or intercept it. Maybe it was unintentional in the sense that he is trying to contort his body to do something else. But in so doing he moves his hand to intercept the ball. The problem, though, is that his arm/hand are moving and this isn't an easy call where the hand is hit by the ball without moving. Still, I'd say he got it right.

During the match I agreed with Pitana --- and implicitly with you. After the match was over I've seen countless replays and I am not that convinced anymore.

Maybe one way out of this conundrum is to state once and for all that any handball, irrespective of  whether it's intentional or not (I still say in Perisic's case was unintentional), will be penalized.

But then again, could a player jump without moving the hands first up and then down?

Frankly, I don't see any clear-cut solution for disputable handballs, as opposed to offsides or goal-line balls where a technology similar to that used in tennis produces unequivocal results.

Bottom line, I still maintain that overall France was better than Croatia in this match but also that the free kick which resulted in 1-0 for France was a gross error and the penalty at least debatable, and that we would never know what the final result would have been without them.

I am biased, though, as I have rooted for Croatia with all my heart.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: (: premont :) on July 16, 2018, 03:37:01 AM
Will you give me France-Denmark a shamefully, blatantly non-combat match?


Yes, indeed a dreary boring match. I only watched it to the end because of the Danish participation.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: mc ukrneal on July 16, 2018, 04:00:17 AM
During the match I agreed with Pitana --- and implicitly with you. After the match was over I've seen countless replays and I am not that convinced anymore.

Maybe one way out of this conundrum is to state once and for all that any handball, irrespective of  whether it's intentional or not (I still say in Perisic's case was unintentional), will be penalized.

But then again, could a player jump without moving the hands first up and then down?

Frankly, I don't see any clear-cut solution for disputable handballs, as opposed to offsides or goal-line balls where a technology similar to that used in tennis produces unequivocal results.

Bottom line, I still maintain that overall France was better than Croatia in this match but also that the free kick which resulted in 1-0 for France was a gross error and the penalty at least debatable, and that we would never know what the final result would have been without them.

I am biased, though, as I have rooted for Croatia with all my heart.
I'd be ok to penalize any handball in the penalty area. It could be different outside the area (but maybe better to be consistent). I saw a handball in one of the earlier games (forget who) where it was unintentional, but the guy had his hands over his head, so it was automatically called. Even though there was nothing the guy could do to evade it, the blanket rule made it much easier to determine (and accept).
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Madiel on July 16, 2018, 04:04:29 AM
Hands are not typically over heads.

They are, however, typically alongside one's body. And arms cannot be cut off.

The proposition of penalising every handball is frankly ridiculous for this reason. All you would get would be opponents deliberately aiming at bodies in the knowledge that at torso height they have a nearly 50% chance of hitting the forbidden limbs.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 16, 2018, 04:16:22 AM
Hands are not typically over heads.

Agreed. But then again can players really not jump without hands up (Denmark's Poulsen case)? Judging by athletics, it can be done alright. And especially when you know that having your hands over your head is going more likely than not to result in a penalty in the unfortunate but only too possible case the ball hits your hand, or viceversa, why do they do it still, I wonder?

Quote
They are, however, typically alongside one's body. And arms cannot be cut off.

Precisely (Perisic's case).

Quote
The proposition of penalising every handball is frankly ridiculous for this reason. All you would get would be opponents deliberately aiming at bodies in the knowledge that at torso height they have a nearly 50% chance of hitting the forbidden limbs.

This.

As I said, I really don't know what could be done in order to eliminate once and for all any subjectivity in handballs.  ???
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 16, 2018, 04:18:28 AM

Yes, indeed a dreary boring match. I only watched it to the end because of the Danish participation.

My problem was not that much the boredom in itself; it was not the only boring match. The problem was that both teams were obviously content with a draw and made no attempt to conceal it. They might have as well left the field and go have a drink together celebrating their qualifying for the next round.  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: (: premont :) on July 16, 2018, 04:56:46 AM
My problem was not that much the boredom in itself; it was not the only boring match. The problem was that both teams were obviously content with a draw and made no attempt to conceal it. They might have as well left the field and go have a drink together celebrating their qualifying for the next round.  ;D


Quite agree. This made the boredom more frustrating than usual.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 16, 2018, 05:13:49 AM

Quite agree. This made the boredom more frustrating than usual.

That match was the main reason why I wanted both Denmark and France to get out of the competition.  ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Madiel on July 16, 2018, 05:51:21 AM

Quite agree. This made the boredom more frustrating than usual.

What was more frustrating was watching Australia squander any chance of progressing at Denmark's expense.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Ken B on July 16, 2018, 08:43:05 AM
So Andrei, boredom punctuated by cheating? I'll take curling.
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Florestan on July 16, 2018, 09:47:39 AM
So Andrei, boredom punctuated by cheating?

Bottom line it's just a game we Yurpeans criticize freely and willingly --- way better than Justin Bieber Trudeau's idiocy being swallowed whole and willingly by your compatriots....  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: Ken B on July 16, 2018, 01:47:04 PM
Bottom line it's just a game we Yurpeans criticize freely and willingly --- way better than Justin Bieber Trudeau's idiocy being swallowed whole and willingly by your compatriots....  ;D ;D ;D
Oh, I’ll take curling over Trudeau too!
Title: Re: World Cup 2018
Post by: (: premont :) on July 16, 2018, 03:23:55 PM
What was more frustrating was watching Australia squander any chance of progressing at Denmark's expense.

I understand this - of course.