GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Opera and Vocal => Topic started by: Harry on June 23, 2007, 07:46:08 AM

Title: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Harry on June 23, 2007, 07:46:08 AM
I love all operas by Lully, Rameau, and the likes. Gardiner recorded alot of them, and I hope, that Warner bundles them together for a nice price.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on June 23, 2007, 07:54:18 AM
I love all operas by Lully, Rameau, and the likes. Gardiner recorded alot of them, and I hope, that Warner bundles them together for a nice price.

The same description applies to Minkowski as well, who made the only (so far) and really superb recording of Marin Marais's "Alcyone".  Lully's "Phaeton" and Remeau's "Platee" are also worth a hear (all Erato/Warner).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on June 23, 2007, 09:08:41 AM
I love all operas by Lully, Rameau, and the likes. Gardiner recorded alot of them, and I hope, that Warner bundles them together for a nice price.

The same description applies to Minkowski as well, who made the only (so far) and really superb recording of Marin Marais's "Alcyone"Lully's "Phaeton" and Rameau's "Platee" are also worth a hear (all Erato/Warner).

OK, you guys. Give a novice like me a recommendation for a superb French baroque opera!
Where shall I start? Names and numbers please! :)

Thanks! :)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Harry on June 23, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
OK, you guys. Give a novice like me a recommendation for a superb French baroque opera!
Where shall I start? Names and numbers please! :)

Thanks! :)

Q

Q, pick any of the Rameau's on Erato, they are all fine!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on June 23, 2007, 02:42:25 PM
OK, you guys. Give a novice like me a recommendation for a superb French baroque opera!
Where shall I start? Names and numbers please! :)

Thanks! :)

Q

For many the ULTIMATE French baroque opera (in the category of tragédies lyriques anyway)
isn't one by Lully or Rameau, but Médée composed by Marc-Antoine Charpentier (libretto:
Thomas Corneille). William Christie recorded it twice (for HM and Erato respectively), although
the general preference is for the later Erato version with the late Lorraine Hunt in the title role.
It is said that Charpentier instilled into the genre a rare psychological complexity that
can be utterly challenging and rewarding to attentive listeners.  The HM version, furthermore,
is cut in several places, but it has its share of supporters.  I am most fascinated by
the vocal style of haute-contres in this period, and Mark Padmore does a most convincing
job as a French baroque Heldentenor  :D

wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Médée_(Charpentier))


4509-96558-2 (Erato)
HM901139-41 (Harmonia mundi)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on June 23, 2007, 03:23:52 PM
For those interested in Gesamtkunstwerk in early modern Europe, this stage version of the Molière/Lully comédie-ballet Le bourgeois gentilhomme is a highly recommended experience.  There is more theatre than music here (about 3:1 in a four-hour production) but the performance is so oustanding in all departments (theatre, music, dance) it is no drawback at all.  The players recite in ancient French and observe all known theatrical practices of the time, including speaking at all times not to each other but facing the audience.  The stage is lit by 500 candles and houses a totally engrossing show from beginning to end.  The actors are wonderfully fun to watch even for me, from essentially a foreign (oriental) persepctive, and the included 50-minute documentary shows, in the case of Vincent Dumestre, what it takes to be a first-rate promoter of French baroque culture/music.   

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on June 23, 2007, 08:32:20 PM
For many the ULTIMATE French baroque opera (in the category of tragédies lyriques anyway)
isn't one by Lully or Rameau, but Médée composed by Marc-Antoine Charpentier (libretto:
Thomas Corneille). William Christie recorded it twice (for HM and Erato respectively), although
the general preference is for the later Erato version with the late Lorraine Hunt in the title role.
It is said that Charpentier instilled into the genre a rare psychological complexity that
can be utterly challenging and rewarding to attentive listeners.  The HM version, furthermore,
is cut in several places, but it has its share of supporters.  I am most fascinated by
the vocal style of haute-contres in this period, and Mark Padmore does a most convincing
job as a French baroque Heldentenor  :D

wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Médée_(Charpentier))

4509-96558-2 (Erato)
HM901139-41 (Harmonia mundi)

Thank you Masolino for the recommendation! :)
I do hope Hunt's and Padmore's French is OK? (I must confess to some bias against anglophone singers in this respect... :-\)


I second the recommendation for Clérambault cantatas (there are other recordings) and esp. the Campra Requiem. This, along with the Gilles Requiem is one of the high points of the French Baroque sacred repertoire. The Charpentier Te Deum is another incontournable. Don't miss out on Corrette either.

Lilas, could you mention some performers/recordings for those?

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: 71 dB on June 24, 2007, 02:41:02 AM
For many the ULTIMATE French baroque opera (in the category of tragédies lyriques anyway)
isn't one by Lully or Rameau, but Médée composed by Marc-Antoine Charpentier

I haven't heard this work. However, no matter how good it is ignoring Rameau's operas is plain stupidity.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: 71 dB on June 24, 2007, 04:25:49 AM
71 dB,

Indicating a preference for Charpentier opera as a first choice in French baroque opera, does not equate to ignoring any other composer. Besides, calling others stupid because of their preferences is not a very good idea  - please be nice!  :)

But if you want to stick up for Rameau's operas - please do so! Explain which ones you like, and why you prefer them. Compare with Charpentier's operas - I could learn something! :)

Q

I think you misinterpreted me. I didn't call anyone stupid. I am really interested of Charpentier's operas as I consider him the greatest 17th century composer of France. I just doubt Charpentier's operas can have the same level of harmonic bliss and orchestral colours Rameau has.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on June 24, 2007, 06:04:27 AM
I think you misinterpreted me. I didn't call anyone stupid. I am really interested of Charpentier's operas as I consider him the greatest 17th century composer of France. I just doubt Charpentier's operas can have the same level of harmonic bliss and orchestral colours Rameau has.

So long as operas are more than "harmonic bliss and orchestral colours" there is reason to prefer Charpentier's late operatic masterpiece to Rameau's works.  Rameau actually wrote catchier tunes as far as I am concerned, but there is such psychological realism in Charpentier's dramatic music (which came to a full bloom in Medea) that it stuns even modern listeners at first encounter.  His characterisation for most characters is so acute it is a bit like hearing a verismo opera two centuries before its time.  I think Charpentier's profound background in writing oratorios (his teacher in Rome was Giacomo Carissimi) is what enabled him to stand out here.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: 71 dB on June 24, 2007, 07:25:48 AM
Any Rameau operas you could recommend?

Q

Well, I don't know any Rameau opera I couldn't recommend. However, "Les Boreades" and "Les Indes galantes" are among the best ones. William Christie/Opus Arte is the way to go (DVD). Increadible!

On CD Minkowski's "Dardanus" on Archiv kicks ass.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on June 24, 2007, 07:27:14 AM
François R. Velde has written a great expository essay on recordings of French baroque operas, and it is well worth a read:

A Survey of Recorded French Opera (1670-1770) (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/velde/opera.htm)

A great Rameau opera to begin with, in my own experience, is his first one, Hippolyte et Aricie, based on Racine's tragedy Pheadre.  As has been commented, it is a rare Rameau opera which can "stand on its own in terms of drama" and this is perhaps why it has received multiple recordings, such as one by Minkowski (Archiv) and Christie (Erato/Warner).  The Amazon reviews for both versions are interesting to read as they were written by obviously partisan but passionate enthusiasts of this music:

Christie's version (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Panzarella-Delunsch-Florissants/dp/B000005E4S)
Minkowski's version (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Fouchécourt-Musiciens-Minkowski/dp/B0000057EU)

I only have the Minkowski recording, which was recorded live at a concert performance at Versailles. 
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: 71 dB on June 24, 2007, 07:30:31 AM
So long as operas are more than "harmonic bliss and orchestral colours" there is reason to prefer Charpentier's late operatic masterpiece to Rameau's works.  Rameau actually wrote catchier tunes as far as I am concerned, but there is such psychological realism in Charpentier's dramatic music (which came to a full bloom in Medea) that it stuns even modern listeners at first encounter.  His characterisation for most characters is so acute it is a bit like hearing a verismo opera two centuries before its time.  I think Charpentier's profound background in writing oratorios (his teacher in Rome was Giacomo Carissimi) is what enabled him to stand out here.

I'm sure Charpentier and Rameau complement each other. Charpentier is middle baroque while Rameau is late baroque.

I must get Charpentier's operas. They are just damn expensive.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on June 24, 2007, 08:09:45 AM
I think I have a good collection af French Baroque opera, including operas by Mondonville, Monteclair, Boismortier, Charpentiers Medea + Le Malade Imaginaire, a lot of Rameau - but my favorite of them all is Lullys Acis & Galatee on Archiv (Minkowski). Plus the DVD of Rameaus Platee under Monkowski as well - with Paul Agnew in an amazing performance of the tite role. I find Lully in general very powerful despite his admittedly much simpler style than eg Rameau.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Harry on June 24, 2007, 08:35:50 AM
A few which are on my list. By no means all.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Harry on June 24, 2007, 08:37:25 AM
 :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Joan on June 24, 2007, 04:13:25 PM
Just as I logged on a few minutes, on this station www.kusc.org (http://www.kusc.org)  they were talking about Lully and playing his music to Gentilhomme. (They've moved on to Clementi.)

I only have two Lully operas: the William Christie Atys, and this one on DVD:


Can anyone tell me how this Persee compares musically to other recordings of it? I really loved Cyril Auvity in it. He sounded very "period" to me, not that I would really know. I saw a review that criticised the women singers, although they sounded fine to me, but maybe too modern? I also saw a French review that was very critical of Colin Ainsworth, but my French is very weak so I couldn't tell if the reviewer was criticising him for his French accent or for the way he was singing French music.

Also, what do you folks think of the film Le Roi Danse? I own the soundtrack for that and it makes a very enjoyable "mix" CD. I've only seen the first half of the film; it seemed pretty over the top to me!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on June 25, 2007, 03:15:54 PM

And I adore Veronique Gens album Tragedienne of great arias, but which I suspect falls into the category of French Baroque Opera-Lite



Listening to the (French baroque) musical tragedies in their entireties can be a daunting experience, the genre itself being one of extreme formality and discursiveness (it is recitation-based).  So even many "complete" recordings are cut in places to save listeners from death from boredom.  Given a great voice and perfect diction selection albums like this one will not disappoint even if drama will inevitably get underplayed when all context is removed.  Gens's voice has matured over the years - hearing her more fresh-voiced in early recordings such as Minkowski's version of Marais Alcyone (recorded 1990) makes one realise that recordings are a bit like photographs...
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Heather Harrison on July 15, 2007, 08:32:50 AM
François R. Velde has written a great expository essay on recordings of French baroque operas, and it is well worth a read:

A Survey of Recorded French Opera (1670-1770) (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/velde/opera.htm)

A great Rameau opera to begin with, in my own experience, is his first one, Hippolyte et Aricie, based on Racine's tragedy Pheadre.  As has been commented, it is a rare Rameau opera which can "stand on its own in terms of drama" and this is perhaps why it has received multiple recordings, such as one by Minkowski (Archiv) and Christie (Erato/Warner).  The Amazon reviews for both versions are interesting to read as they were written by obviously partisan but passionate enthusiasts of this music:

Christie's version (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Panzarella-Delunsch-Florissants/dp/B000005E4S)
Minkowski's version (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Fouchécourt-Musiciens-Minkowski/dp/B0000057EU)

I only have the Minkowski recording, which was recorded live at a concert performance at Versailles. 


I have been meaning to get into this thread, but I have been exploring so much of the French Baroque that it is hard to know where to start.  Since you mention this opera, I'll add my impressions of it.  I also have the Minkowski recording, and I may also get the Christie recording; this opera is so good that I wouldn't mind having two performances.  Hopefully it will come out on DVD some day.

According to the liner notes, this opera had some difficulty finding acceptance because the music was too complicated (and - horror of horrors - had some influences from the Italian style); someone at the time even used the word "Baroque" as a pejorative to describe it.  Naturally, these precise characteristics make it interesting for me.  There is great variety to the music - beautiful arias, polyphonic choral pieces, exciting storm scenes, and the melodic French-style recitative.  It would be a great introduction to Rameau's operas, and I think it is one of his best.

In addition to this, I have other operas by Rameau and Lully, religious music by Charpentier, instrumental music by Marais and Couperin, and a variety of others.  I am glad more of this music is appearing all the time; it has been neglected far too long.  And it is nice to have such expert interpreters as William Christie and Marc Minkowski; so far I have not found a single dud in all of their output.

Heather
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Tancata on July 17, 2007, 03:50:17 AM
Please don't feel restricted to what's currently discussed - if it's French baroque: just pitch in!

Q


Well, on that note I'll jump in. I know you prefer negative reviews, Q, but that will be impossible in the case of this DVD:

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Nov05/Rameau_Paladins_oa0938d.jpg)

It's simply a winner, as you might know from discussions of it on the previous version of the forum.

The music - Rameau's final opera/ballet "Les Paladins" is very fine. It took me a couple of listens to properly break into - it sounded a little superficial at first - but it isn't. The spectacle is divided between regular operatic sections, where Rameau demonstrates his mastery of the drama in baroque music, and dance sections which are lively but not too "frothy".

Singing is very good all 'round, especially the lithe Topi Lehtipuu as the noble and amusingly vain Atis. One possible exception is Rene Schirrer, who tends to run out of steam when going for the lowest notes of the blustery bad guy Anselme. Special mention to Francois Piolino, who has a firm and powerful (if very camp) high tenor voice, ideal for the bizarre peacock-like Manto  :).

O, the production...the production... multiple video screens and buckets full of dancers. Trampolines, lions, storks, the Metro, tit, ass, cock and balls...everything is here, and it's spectacular, never a jumble. Rather, all these diverse elements are used very cleverly to bring out the humour. Not too much reinterpretation is needed actually - the jokes are extremely modern, and the big scenes (such as the rather ambiguous seduction of Anselme by Manto) are pulled off extremely well  ;). Each of the characters has a counterpart dancer who interprets what they're feeling at the time, a concept which is used well for both humourous and dramatic effect.

The dancing is (very) modern, but goes very well - in a bizarre way - with the baroque ballet music.


A great performance all round...I'm sure others will recommend it too  :).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on September 08, 2007, 08:54:20 AM
Back to the subject of this thread: saw a raving review of this on Classicstoday (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11163).
Anyone knows this recording or this opera?



Thanks! :)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on September 08, 2007, 09:46:02 AM
And classicstoday gave it a 10/10.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: 71 dB on September 09, 2007, 02:41:00 AM
Anyone knows this recording or this opera?




All I know is I want it.  :P
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on September 09, 2007, 09:39:49 PM
All I know is I want it.  :P
Good answer! Me, too.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on October 13, 2007, 11:29:43 PM
.



LULLY:    Atys, opera   / Les Arts Florissants, Christie  (Harmonia Mundi)

This is perhaps Lully's best opera. The Prologue is splendid with the colors of the instruments, the rhythm. The first two acts, however, are heavy with the kind of rhetoric declamation that Lully introduced in French vocal music.

But the opera has extraordinary moments: the scene of the Sleep, in the 3rd act, is a model followed by many composers (Rameau, Purcell), and the great tragedy of the 5th act, with Atys murdering Sangaride and then killing himself. In this scenes Lully is at the level of Monteverdi.

The interpreters are just acceptable, except the very touching Agnes Mellon in Sangaride and Bernard Deletré, irresistible comedian in the role of the God of the River.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: pjme on January 19, 2008, 06:56:16 AM
From January 21st on, Lully's "Cadmus et Hermione" will be staged at the Opéra Comique  in Paris. Vincent Dumestre and Le Poème Harmonique ( Claire Lefilliatre etc) perform, Benjamin Lazar ( 30) is the director. In this month's "Diapason" he talks enthusiastically about this premiere : Lully's first "tragédie lyrique"!
He calls it a "hybrid" work that combines comedy & tragedy,the profane &and the  sacred .
It will be a grand spectacle ,with a special role for "real" theater machines. No high tech tricks, but handmade contraptions.

Lazar and his troupe studied Bacilly's "l'Art de bien chanter" (1668) and "Réflexions critiques" de l'Abbé Du Bos ( early 18th cent;). As for the way singer/actors should move ,he consulted "Sept traités sur le jeu du comedien" ( edit. honoré Champion). Georges Forestier's preface to Racine's "Oeuvres complètes" gave valuable insight into declamation and prosody.

The spectacle was meticulously prepared at Royaumont, so that the actor-singers had time to assimilate ( "incarner") this way of performing.
Lazar impressed the French public with equally well prepared stagings of Le bourgeois gentilhomme and Landi's Sant'Alessio.
"The audience was surprised by this unexpected and singular result : it was "evident". They may have expected a forced, mannered style, but what they saw was fluent, natural."

And further : "I refuse the comfort of modernisation. I love this type of poetry and expression.There is no need to extract ( such a work) from its time. Its aura is eternal."

I hope that "Cadmus et Hermione" will be broadcast on France Musique. !
After Paris, the spectacle moves to Rouen (February).


Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on January 19, 2008, 07:12:08 AM

I hope that "Cadmus et Hermione" will be broadcast on France Musique.


I hope it will be recorded or filmed!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: pjme on January 19, 2008, 07:48:00 AM
I hope it will be recorded or filmed!

But of course!

Here's more from the Royaumont site :http://www.royaumont.com

I visited the Abbey last year. A magical place! Take the virtual tour ..or go there ,sooner or later.

Lully/Quinault : Cadmus et Hermione

 
 
An operatic training and performance workshop
Production project from Théâtre National de l’Opéra-Comique, in coproduction with le Centre de Musique Baroque de Versailles and Royaumont Foundation.



Presentation
The Opera Comique, The Versailles Baroque Music Centre and Royaumont Foundation have joined

Poème Harmonique for an ambitious project based on Cadmus et Hermione. After the success enjoyed by the comedy-ballet Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme rehearsed and produced at Royaumont with a team of young singers, dancers and actors, Vincent Dumestre and Benjamin Lazar, this time in association with Gudrun Skamletz, are seeking to embark on an exploration of first lyric tragedy ; in 1673, Lully, a great admirer of Racine, created a new genre unique in Europe, with the poet Quinault. In Cadmus et Hermione, the music is not simply incidental, but carries the action entirely, creating with theatre and dance together in a single dramatic unity. This revolutionary work, and a veritable source for French Opera, combines the constitutive elements in a balanced way that guaranteed its success:

- the French recitatif, a form of sung declamation, which drives the action;

- the choir, whose essential role in the dramatics is akin to that of the antique chorus;

- the use of dance, inherited from court ballet, as a rhetorical and dramatic element;

- the alternation of glory and love themes with comic type scenes inherited from comedy-ballet;

- fantasy, that allows the appearance of gods and monsters, and encourages the more spectacular aspects provided by theatre machinery.Training and experimental work at Royaumont will make it possible to constitute a troop of singers, dancers and musicians, and who take all the time needed to explore the ways in which declamatory and other song, gestures and dance may be performed in this lyric tragedy, based on the historical investigative approach to the 17th century being carried out by Le Poème Harmonique with help from the Versailles Baroque Music Centre (Grandes journées Lully, Autumn 2008). The fruits of this multidisciplinary project will be shown to the public at the Opera Comique in Paris in February 2008, followed by performances at Versailles Royal Opera a tour in Autumn 2008.





Teachers
Vincent Dumestre, artistic director

Benjamin Lazar, stage director

Gudrun Skamletz, chorégraph

Le Poème Harmonique

Thomas Leconte, Jean Duron, musicologists (Centre de Musique Baroque de Versailles)

Program
Vincent Dumestre, Benjamin Lazar and Gudrun Skamletz would like the work at Royaumont to provide an opportunity for research and reflection concerning 17th century language, its refined and subtle aspects, its colours and sounds, the way it is declaimed and sung, and its gestures, as well as its choreographic rhetoric along with the marvellous, monstrous and comic vocabularies. The experience gained from Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme (organic links between theatre, music and dance, reconstructed pronunciation, candle-lit staging and so on) will make it possible to take that research further.

 

Dates of training

- from 2 to 6 June 2007 (soloist singers only),

- from 20 to 29 July 2007 (tutti),

- from 30 November to 9 December 2007 (tutti).
 

 
 11 soloist singers
 15 chorus and coryphei singers 
 8 dancers.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on February 17, 2008, 08:46:55 AM
I'm enjoying this at present:



Colorful music, fine recording, very Lully in style.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Mozart on May 15, 2008, 07:48:55 PM
Does anyone like it? I've tried a few time now to get into it, but it just seems like 3 hours of slow whining(without the fun side effects). Can someone pick out a few special arias for me to listen to?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on May 15, 2008, 11:51:50 PM
Maybe you can try the instrumental pieces or arrangements from this repertory instead first.  "Concert suites" from Lully, Rameau, Marais etc. sound good.  Or if you insist on vocal recordings, I can think at least one now that would suit your need.  Veronique Gens has a voice that would please most listeners, and the accompaniment from Rousset can't be beat.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HSRMZV48L._SS400_.jpg)

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Mozart on May 16, 2008, 09:58:52 AM
Maybe you can try the instrumental pieces or arrangements from this repertory instead first.  "Concert suites" from Lully, Rameau, Marais etc. sound good.  Or if you insist on vocal recordings, I can think at least one now that would suit your need.  Veronique Gens has a voice that would please most listeners, and the accompaniment from Rousset can't be beat.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HSRMZV48L._SS400_.jpg)



Haha, this cd is the whole reason I wan't to start listening to french baroque opera. I love her! Really I do! Her Handel cantatas are amazing, and her Mozart cd makes me start daydreaming. She is also in Minkowski's recording of Dardanus, but I have trouble getting anything out of it. Slow long arias, that don't seem to stand out 1 from the other.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on May 16, 2008, 10:41:20 AM
You may need another chanteuse then
This one likes it fast

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Mozart on May 16, 2008, 11:22:32 AM
Cute girl, but I can't say I love her voice or technique like I do Gens. I've only heard her in Italian so I'll try to find this cd :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Mozart on May 16, 2008, 12:36:31 PM
Well, I did like the Gluck arias...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HSRMZV48L._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: jhar26 on March 30, 2009, 03:26:03 AM
.



Terrific DVD of Rameau's Les Indes Galantes with Danielle de Niese, Paul Agnew, Patricia Petibon and many others. William Christie conducts.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: 71 dB on March 30, 2009, 06:50:03 AM
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Aug05/Rameau_Indes_Gallante_OA0923D.gif)

Terrific DVD of Rameau's Les Indes Galantes with Danielle de Niese, Paul Agnew, Patricia Petibon and many others. William Christie conducts.

Yes, TERRIFIC! This awesome DVD is responsible for the large part for making my father warm up to classical music.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 15, 2009, 12:20:52 PM
Gosh, this is a long thread, and this is my first post in it - I thought I should attempt to see all of it before I spoke, but life is short and art is long, and I had to do a bit of skipping... but as far as I can see (forgive me if I missed it), no one has yet talked about this DVD (though there has been mention made of the live performances):



Right. Now, trust me.
Stop whatever you're doing now, and order one.
You can get one here for instance:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hermione-trag%C3%A9die-Quinault-Harmonique-Dumestre/dp/B001EVPBY4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1239829258&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hermione-trag%C3%A9die-Quinault-Harmonique-Dumestre/dp/B001EVPBY4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1239829258&sr=1-1).

There are no special features on the disc, no bargain deals to be had. You just pay your money and get the best opera on DVD I've ever seen. Better even than Christie's Les Indes Galantes. Well, OK you can't really compare them. But that's the territory we're talking about.

It is stunning. The production is lit with hundreds of tiny living flames, to get the authentic lighting of the period. Not a gimmick, I promise - the character of the lighting throughout is exquisite and a major contributor to the beauty of the production - so delicate and soft. The sets are magic. Sheer magic. The costumes... oh, breathtaking.

And then there are the gestures - the carefully rehearsed and executed movements that ought to seem formulaic but which are fantastically expressive. I have never seen hands used to such effect. The way in which Cadmus and Hermione's hands get closer and closer as the opera progresses, but not touching until they're finally united is itself something to be treasured. Andre Morsche, as Cadmus, has a presence the like of which I don't believe I've seen. I can't take my eyes of him whenever he's on stage.

And then there's the music. Haunting, magisterial, - a revelation. The closing scenes, with the whole cast on stage, singing together the same passage over and over with variations, is very, very moving.

Watching this is as close as you're going to get, ever, to seeing what the Sun King saw. If it was good enough for him, it's good enough for me. Stupendous. Infinitely re-watchable and relistenable. It might make you cry in places - not so much because of events in the plot, but just because of the sheer privilege of being able to sit at home and watch such an unsurpassable work of theatrical/operatic art. You need a copy of this.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on April 15, 2009, 10:22:00 PM
Gosh, this is a long thread, and this is my first post in it - I thought I should attempt to see all of it before I spoke, but life is short and art is long, and I had to do a bit of skipping... but as far as I can see (forgive me if I missed it), no one has yet talked about this DVD (though there has been mention made of the live performances):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qRtVIRuML._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Right. Now, trust me.
Stop whatever you're doing now, and order one.


Dumestre here repeats the success he had with the Moliere/Lully Le Bourgois gentilhomme a few years ago, following pretty much the same recipes stylistically.   There is a special feature on that one though, and very good, too.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RWYP9CNAL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 15, 2009, 11:29:01 PM
the Moliere/Lully Le Bourgois gentilhomme a few years ago, following pretty much the same recipes stylistically.

I've given serious thought to buying that, but when I checked out a few snippets from You tube there seemed to be a good deal of merely spoken dialogue, rather than music. Is it so?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on April 15, 2009, 11:34:49 PM
I've given serious thought to buying that, but when I checked out a few snippets from You tube there seemed to be a good deal of merely spoken dialogue, rather than music. Is it so?

Indeed - Moliere was a (superb) playwright; Lully only composed the incidental music.  But the features you mentioned in your review are all there, including a chaconne in the final chorus.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 15, 2009, 11:45:44 PM
Indeed - Moliere was a (superb) playwright; Lully only composed the incidental music.  But the features you mentioned in your review are all there, including a chaconne in the final chorus.

Thanks, but I'll pester you again, if I may. Is Lully's music mostly instrumental, then, and confined to the 'ballet' sections? You mentioned a final chorus - but how much singing is there apart from that (if any)??
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on April 15, 2009, 11:54:05 PM
Thanks, but I'll pester you again, if I may. Is Lully's music mostly instrumental, then, and confined to the 'ballet' sections? You mentioned a final chorus - but how much singing is there apart from that (if any)??

Vocal music is mostly limited to the prologue, first act and final act (an extended, colourful divertissiment).  About one third of Lully's total contribution there is texted and therefore sung.

edit. Sorry I am forgetting the marvellous gibberish Turkish song in the third (fourth?) act as well.  But it is true that most songs are found at either the beginning or the end.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 16, 2009, 12:00:41 AM
Vocal music is mostly limited to the prologue, first act and final act (an extended, colourful divertissiment).  About one third of Lully's total contribution there is texted and therefore sung.

Thanks for this. I think if I'd discovered Gentilhomme, and then moved on to Cadmus, I'd be thrilled; but I'm not so sure about the reverse: I have the feeling that there won't be enough music in Gentilhomme for me, even though I'd love to support these Alpha folk in their endeavours.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: FideLeo on April 16, 2009, 12:04:10 AM
Thanks for this. I think if I'd discovered Gentilhomme, and then moved on to Cadmus, I'd be thrilled; but I'm not so sure about the reverse: I have the feeling that there won't be enough music in Gentilhomme for me, even though I'd love to support these Alpha folk in their endeavours.

No Gentilhomme is emphatically not a tragedie lyrique.  But superb entertainment it is, and for drama I will definitely take Moliere over Quinault.  :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on June 02, 2009, 08:24:57 AM
Is anyone familiar with Hugo Reyne Lully series on Accord. I'm particularly interested in Isis and Amadis and there doesn't seem to be many reviews around. Where is erato, our tragedie en musique loving Norwegian? Have you heard any?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on June 02, 2009, 08:42:26 AM
Is anyone familiar with Hugo Reyne Lully series on Accord. I'm particularly interested in Isis and Amadis and there doesn't seem to be many reviews around. Where is erato, our tragedie en musique loving Norwegian? Have you heard any?
I'm here, but even though this series have been on my wishlist for quite some years, they are not easy or inexpensive to get, so I never got around to it, there always was something else more easily available. But thanks for remembering that, much appreciated. My baroque opera moneyspending recently have gone towards recent Handel opera (Faramoondo & Ezio) issues, Handel cantatas (the Glossa series), and some Hyperion oratorio sets, as well as filling out the holes in my Opus 111 Vivaldi opera series, and the K 617 Cavalli Gli Amori di Apolllo et Daphne (superb BTW). So the French baroque has suffered (though I did buy Tharauds Couperin disc on Harmonia Mundi).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on June 02, 2009, 09:07:59 AM
My baroque opera moneyspending recently have gone towards recent Handel opera (Faramoondo & Ezio) issues, Handel cantatas (the Glossa series), and some Hyperion oratorio sets, as well as filling out the holes in my Opus 111 Vivaldi opera series, and the K 617 Cavalli Gli Amori di Apolllo et Daphne (superb BTW).

Infidel >:( [I'm thinking of getting Cavalli's La Calisto Jacobs DVD]

I'm currently in a Lully phase - Gentilhomme and Cadmus from Alpha, Herreweghe Armide, Minkowski's Phaeton, lots of motets on Naxos, Malgoire's second Alceste (mp3 rip unfortunately, it is ridiculously oop)...with Rousset's Roland on order from europadisc (fingers crossed they can deliver)...so I'd probably be getting those anyhow, but lack of info, plus quite negative amazon review (http://www.amazon.com/Isis-LULLY-Musicien-Soleil-Vol/dp/B000B8WDQK) combined with rather unimpressive scene du froid excerpt (http://www.simphonie-du-marais.org/spip.php?article80) on their own site makes me undecided for now.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on June 02, 2009, 09:16:38 AM


I'm currently in a Lully phase - Gentilhomme (have it!) and Cadmus from Alpha, Herreweghe Armide (have it!), Minkowski's Phaeton (have it!) , lots of motets on Naxos (have all three discs!), Malgoire's second Alceste (mp3 rip unfortunately, it is ridiculously oop)...with Rousset's Roland on order from europadisc (have it!)

Why not go for the superb productions of Psyche and also Thesee on cpo from the Boston Early Music Festival?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on June 02, 2009, 09:56:53 AM
Why not go for the superb productions of Psyche and also Thesee on cpo from the Boston Early Music Festival?


They are on my shopping list, along with fe other things, but first want to see what'll happen with my Roland order, excerpts I heard on Ambroisie sampler were stunning.

Another thing I'm considering is unofficial DVD of legendary Christie 1987 Atys, it's actually French TV rip but it's not that expensive and I'll probably give it a go (if I ever figure where was the site that was offering it ::)). Why that production wasn't ever offered officialy on DVD when it was recorded for TV is beyond me.

NewOlde on the other hand seems to unconditionally love Reyne:
http://www.newolde.com/lully.htm
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on September 09, 2009, 12:56:45 AM
.



This was highly recommended in Gramophone on release last year, and I bought one (partly because I have a special interest in the Persephone myth), but I've only now got around to seriously listening to it. To summarise - I'm delighted with it.

I think I've underestimated Lully in my Baroque explorations (which is surprising given the impact made by the stupendously fine DVD of Cadmus & Hermione). In particular, there's something very special about the harmonies in the choral passages (and in duets, etc, too). Those passages can be very 'heroic' in character - but they're also capable of achieving a very moving plaintiveness and delicacy. An example here would be the passage where Proserpine and her friends are in the fields picking flowers. There's a certain poignancy to this moment because we know that disaster is about to strike, but here, now, she and her friends are delighting in the flowers and the moment; and the music - the interplay between Proserpine and the female chorus - expresses that arcadian delight perfectly.

Lully/Quinault have played havoc with the usual structure of the myth, but it doesn't matter in the least. The strangest is the promotion of Arethusa from a bit part to a main player in the drama, but it works well. Of course the whole scheme is constructed as usual to celebrate Kingship, so that Jupiter (symbolising the King) restores harmony to the world by intervening in Proserpine's fate; but that's OK; these great myths (and this is one of the most profound) retain their imaginative power no matter what way you twist them.

Presentation is unimpressive. There's a nice enough booklet/libretto, but the 2CDs are each housed in separate slimline CD cases (why not a double?), and the whole inserted into a flimsy card slipcase which is too tight a fit, and so at risk of damage. Because everything has been squeezed onto 2 CDs there's an unfortunate break in the music in mid-Act, at a great dramatic moment: Pluto is hidden; we hear Persephone approaching through the meadows with her friends ... and then you have to change the CD.

But these are quibbles. The music is the thing, and it's stupendous. Just get one.

Youtube sample (start of Act III):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ9VscoLcEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ9VscoLcEs)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on September 09, 2009, 01:08:57 AM


But these are quibbles. The music is the thing, and it's stupendous. Just get one.


I have got one, and I am contemplating the other french baroque operas on Glossa, eg Marais Semele etc.

But whatever you do; BE SURE to pick up the cpo Psyche if this has wetted your appetite for Lully!  
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on September 09, 2009, 08:26:44 AM
But whatever you do; BE SURE to pick up the cpo Psyche if this has wetted your appetite for Lully!  

Oh yes indeed - I already have one on order, Erato. And also a copy of Phaeton (Minkowski).

I was listening to Act III again today - really, the music accompanying Ceres's realisation that her daughter is lost is simply marvellous; there's an ache, a real heartache, in it.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on September 09, 2009, 08:33:13 AM
Oh yes indeed - I already have one on order, Erato. And also a copy of Phaeton (Minkowski).

I have them all. Don't forget Minkowskis Acis & Galatee on Archiv if available, it's a particular favorite of mine. I'm a Lulliste.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on September 09, 2009, 12:21:37 PM
I'm a Lulliste.

I think I am a soon-to-be-Lulliste. (I already think Cadmus & Hermione is the finest opera I have ever seen on DVD.)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Josquin des Prez on September 09, 2009, 07:25:08 PM
Lully is a most underrated composer. He gave French Baroque music its own unique voice. You can't sneer on that.  
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on September 10, 2009, 05:41:54 AM
Spotted this at jpc (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Jacques-Chambonnieres-Les-Pieces-de-Clavessin-Heft-1-2/hnum/9395404) for 9,99 euros, which is a steal.

No, steal-ing is jpc shipping rate at 19.99 euros, but I'm still tempted.

I think I am a soon-to-be-Lulliste.

In which case don't miss Armide, still my favorite Lully tragedie en musique. But avoid the truncated Naxos recording, Herreweghe on HM is the way to go.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on September 17, 2009, 05:57:50 AM
.



I've now listened to the whole of this recording, and I can confirm that it's worth buying purely for the astonishing performance of Carolyn Sampson as Psyche, backed up by Karina Gauvin as a frighteningly vengeful Venus. Really, the portrayal of Psyche by Carolyn Sampson is superb. It's not just great singing - it's great drama: the delicacy of the little nuances in her voice is such that I feel I could never quite get to the bottom of it no matter how many times I listen. When she comes to L'Amour's (Cupid's) palace, for example, it seems that every inflection in her singing has dramatic meaning as well as beauty. She has a way of making little flourishes - no, I need to invent a word: 'fritillations' - that flicker so briefly across my hearing that they're gone before I can quite register them, but the effect is like a thrilling little shiver of expectation. For me, she is the highlight of this recording, this performance, but I can't say I found any aspect of it disappointing.

When I saw how long the last act is (it really adds little to the plot because it's just a celebration of the immortalising of Psyche), I wondered if I might get a bit squirmy; but no - there's some very varied music here. Jupiter/Louis (read it how you like) has made everything turn out right yet again, and the music is determined to make sure we realise it and enjoy ourselves. I found it quite hard to sit still in places - such is the infectious character of the music.

So the range of dramatic and musical experience here is considerable - taking in the poignancy of Psyche's predicament, the wonderfully devilish encounter with the Furies, and the celebration of everyone living happily ever after. I don't think this replaces Proserpine as my favourite, but that's a matter of personal preference. As a performance, this may reach places that Proserpine doesn't, quite. Best to get both.

There are lots of little b/w photos of a live production in the booklet, running alongside the libretto - a nice touch.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on October 06, 2009, 04:59:53 AM
.



Phaëton is a story of great dramatic potential, of blind ambition and greed for power and glory which pushes everything else aside to end in inevitable fall and demise. Story which is relevant in any age, and much more straightforward in its plot than many other labyrinthine Arcadian tales favored by french baroque composers and librettists and as such should appeal more easily to todays audiences. Quinault handles it very well, until the last act that is, where in the desire to deal with all of his characters he makes the act far too episodic, almost promenade like, and loses cumulative buildup to a finale which has the potential to easily match Don Giovanni in its flair. Don't think much can be done about this but I still think the opera more than deserves a new recording, because this one is hardly perfect. Sound quality, orchestra and chorus are all quite fine. Minkowski drives hard, too hard at times, perhaps avoiding longueurs but also losing charm in dance episodes and interludes, and maybe if he had been les relentless he could have made some key moments more telling. Singers are mixed bunch, female part being the problematic one for me. Out of three main female roles two are chore to listen to. I haven't the slightest idea what is the appeal of Jennifer Smith's voice (Theone), it's not exactly pretty one and constant back of the throat tone production is terribly annoying. Rachel Yakar was acceptable in Leonhardt's Campra L'Europe Galante some twenty years earlier but she is way past her prime here, heavy, matronly (even if the role of Clymene is the mother) and straining. Rest of the cast is mostly fine: Crook, Gens, Fouchecourt ...
Even though I'm not completely happy with this recording it is definitely worth having, who knows when or even if the next will come, and it's currently available at almost giveaway price of 11 euros.

http://www.amazon.de/Lully-Fouchécourt-Huttenlocher-Musiciens-Minkowski/dp/B000005EAR  (http://www.amazon.de/Lully-Fouchécourt-Huttenlocher-Musiciens-Minkowski/dp/B000005EAR)   
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DavidW on October 06, 2009, 09:16:47 AM
What do people think of Lully's Persee?  It's on my netflix queue, and I'm hoping that it will be good. :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on October 07, 2009, 01:26:30 AM
What do people think of Lully's Persee?  It's on my netflix queue, and I'm hoping that it will be good. :)

I only know it through this DVD:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516GQP1MFFL.jpg)

which I found disappointing. I felt there was something wrong with the sound balance, and although there was some effective dancing, the acting was wooden, stagey and fake, and these things largely prevented me from enjoying the music. On the other hand, in fairness I should explain that I came to it fresh from this unbelievably fine Cadmus & Hermione:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qRtVIRuML.jpg)

which is still the finest opera DVD I've ever seen, or expect to see. So my expectations of Persee were enormous, and it may be that if I were to watch it again, I'd be less repelled by it. Even so, I'd suggest that if you're wanting to watch a Lully opera on DVD, then it really ought to be the Dumestre Cadmus & Hermione.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DavidW on October 07, 2009, 04:57:59 AM
Ah shucks that's the only Lully opera at netflix!  Guess I'm better off buying. :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on October 07, 2009, 07:00:07 AM
Ah shucks that's the only Lully opera at netflix!  Guess I'm better off buying. :)

Fairness compels me to add that others don't share my disappointment. There's a discussion I recall having somewhere here on GMG (where? where?) which would give you a more balanced view than mine alone.

Alternatively, and more satisfactorily, judge for yourself by taking a look on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l91R_8ICWg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l91R_8ICWg)

The chap who posted this first clip has posted heaps of others too. (Listening to this reminds me of another problem I have with this production - the curious emphasis on the rolling of 'R's, to an extent that I find very intrusive. It's altogether as if they're trying too hard.)


Later: The discussion of Persee I mentioned (in which T-C offers a different view) is in this thread:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12350.40.html (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,12350.40.html)

You might be interested in the discussion of the Christie DVD of Rameau's Les Indes Galantes in that thread, too.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DavidW on October 07, 2009, 07:29:18 AM
Thanks for the links, will check out the youtube later.

Christie has already proven himself to me with Orlando, so I added that Rameau you mentioned to my queue.  Netflix has quite a bit of Rameau. :)  They just don't like Lully. :'(
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on October 07, 2009, 07:49:01 AM
They just don't like Lully. :'(

Silly people! (If you don't love Les Indes Galantes, then I will stand on my head and declare myself to be a turnip.)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on December 23, 2009, 01:25:53 AM
Bumping this thread, and currently constructing it as a seperate thread out of the general French Baroque Musique thread that has become quite long! :)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on March 20, 2010, 01:53:36 AM
Recently reissued! :) And according to a French internet source (http://www.classiquenews.com/ecouter/lire_article.aspx?article=3399&identifiant=200912159NTPHRFGXO8HMJXOG3E6JAT6X) with full notes & texts. 4 operas on 10 discs. I would order at Amazon UK, which for some strange reason is way cheaper (£28) than its French and German counterparts (€89,50 & €77)! :o

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HriCVl8BL.jpg)

Of course, I picked this valuable news up at the indispensible site for Baroque lovers: Newolde.com (http://www.newolde.com/)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on March 20, 2010, 01:55:07 AM
Indispensable indeed, though I somehow managed to miss that reissue!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on March 20, 2010, 11:15:54 AM
Recently reissued! :) And according to a French internet source (http://www.classiquenews.com/ecouter/lire_article.aspx?article=3399&identifiant=200912159NTPHRFGXO8HMJXOG3E6JAT6X) with full notes & texts. 4 operas on 10 discs. I would order at Amazon UK, which for some strange reason is way cheaper (£28) than its French and German counterparts (€89,50 & €77)! :o

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HriCVl8BL.jpg)
Q
I ordered it, just in case amazon.co.uk did misprice it.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on March 20, 2010, 01:14:31 PM
I ordered it, just in case amazon.co.uk did misprice it.

That thought crossed my mind as well.... :)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on March 23, 2010, 08:30:37 AM
I would order at Amazon UK, which for some strange reason is way cheaper (£28) than its French and German counterparts (€89,50 & €77)!

Surely that must be a mistake! Like everyone else, I've placed my order - so we'll soon enough find out!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on March 30, 2010, 01:03:29 PM
If anyone is interested, here's HDTV broadcast recording from French France2 TV channel of Lully's Armide under William Christie from Theatre des Champs-Elysees, October 2008.

Very decent quality both audio and video.
720p HDTV | AVI | H264 1280 x 720 1700Kbps 25fps | MPEG 1 Layer 3 2CH 48KHz 224 kbps| 02:50:04 | 2.25GB | French subtitles

Full credits:
ARMIDE
Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687)
The last Lully's tragedy, created 1686

Theatre des Champs-Elysees Paris
October 2008
William Christie, musical conductor & harpsichord
Robert Carsen, stage director

Jean-Claude Gallotta, choreography
Gideon Davey, sets & costumes
Robert Carsen et Peter Van Praet, lights

Choeur et Orchestre Les Arts Florissants
with :
Claire Debono, La Gloire, Phenice, Lucinde
Isabelle Druet, La Sagesse, Sidonie, Melisse
Stephanie d'Oustrac, Armide
Nathan Berg, Hidraot
Paul Agnew, Renaud
Marc Mauillon, Ubalde, Aronte
Marc Callahan, Artemidore
Andrew Tortise, Le Chevalier Danois
Laurent Naouri, La Haine
Anders J. Dahlin, Un amant fortune

Code: [Select]
http://rapidshare.com/files/332401990/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.001.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332403488/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.002.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332619908/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.003.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332422826/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.004.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332619048/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.005.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332652696/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.006.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332441627/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.007.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332444405/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.008.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332459622/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.009.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332468274/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.010.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332474960/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.011.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332379130/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte0_1_2.avi.012.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/332683545/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.001.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332690965/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.002.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332713581/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.003.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332722559/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.004.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332743564/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.005.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332752907/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.006.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332774244/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.007.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332780473/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.008.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332803796/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.009.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332806714/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.010.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332835469/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.011.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332836376/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.012.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/332659096/Lully-Armide-Christie-Paris-081014-acte3_4_5.avi.013.html

use hjsplit (http://www.freebyte.com/hjsplit/) to join files 
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: mamascarlatti on April 01, 2010, 01:18:14 PM
Hello everyone, my first post on this opera forum which I've been following with pleasure,

Here are two more Rameau operas on DVD. (I mainly watch opera on DVD as I like the whole package). Quite a contrast.

My favourite of the two is “Les Boréades” conducted by William Christie:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FxCn7QufL.jpg)

The music is wonderful, choruses, dances and (i don’t really know if this is the word” – programmatic music – related for example to the weather, as in sweeping winds, or when the god Borée is impotently storming about it the last act, lots of little unfinished phrases. Also I personally love the colour given to the orchestration by the frequent domination of wind instruments.

The production highlights two main themes: la Liberté versus buttoned-up (literally) conformity, and the passage of the seasons.  The seasons are particularly beautifully incarnated, fields of spring flowers, twirling autumn leaves flung from whirling umbrellas, twinkling winter starts followed by flurries of snow, and back to spring again. The followers of liberty wear flowing white tunics, as opposed to the brutalist grey greatcoats and long leather gloves of the followers of the north wind. Liberty and love triumph in the end (the themes of the forthcoming revolution are already well represented in this opera, no wonder it was never shown at the time).

The main part is sung by Barbara Bonney, not an obvious choice for this genre, but she acquits herself well without necessarily producing what I can only call the “French sound” that you hear from Sandrine Piau, Véronique Gens, Patricia Petitbon. Other parts are sung by such veteran Rameau experts as Paul Agnew  and Nicolas RIvenq who will be familiar to fans of les Indes Galantes.

My only caveat is the dancing. It’s technically extremely accomplished, but the choreography is ultra-modern and consistently employs extremely fast, angular, exaggerated and robotic arm movements. It grew on me, but was rather exhausting. The explanation offered in the hour-long documentary (good old Opus Arte) is that the director wanted a modern counterpart to the high stylised and conventionalised movements of baroque dance.

Platée (cond Marc Minkowski) is the second opera, quite a different kettle of fish, or should I say frogs:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ARQ826ABL.jpg)

The story is much slighter, and is really an excuse for lots of “divertissements” particularly on the part of Folly (clad à la Marie-Antoinette in sheet music) and her dancers. Paul Agnew hangs up his hero’s arrow to play the titular ugly marsh nymph, whom (in a twist of particularly gallic logic) Jupiter pretends to marry in order to prove to Juno that he is not actually unfaithful to her (huh???) The production by Laurent Pelly is modern, Comédie Française meets Beatrix Potter with a bit of commedia dell’arte thrown in, and a rollicking time is had by all.

I’m now contemplating my next DVD purchases.

Pretty much decided on Les Paladins:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bu7Pj72cL.jpg)

But not sure about Castor et Pollux:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515rX%2BYMgoL.jpg)

Or Zoroastre:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519DZrRP92L.jpg)

Any advice gratefully received. I don't mind modern productions, or even Regie, as long as it makes sense. (possibly the latter is an oxymoron... )
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 01, 2010, 01:25:29 PM
Hello everyone, my first post on this opera forum which I've been following with pleasure,

Hello Natalie, nice to see you here. Welcome, and thanks for the tips.
                               *****

Has anyone yet received any info about their order of that Lully box set from Amazon that we talked about a few posts above? It's been only silence, so far, for me.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on April 01, 2010, 01:31:57 PM
Hello Natalie, nice to see you here. Welcome, and thanks for the tips.
                               *****

Has anyone yet received any info about their order of that Lully box set from Amazon that we talked about a few posts above? It's been only silence, so far, for me.
I got mine at the beginning of the week. Ordered from amazon.co.uk, but shipped from Germany even though it wasn't from a reseller.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 01, 2010, 01:36:53 PM
I got mine at the beginning of the week. Ordered from amazon.co.uk, but shipped from Germany even though it wasn't from a reseller.
Ah, well that's encouraging. Thanks Erato. I'm past their original estimated dispatch date, but I notice that they're now giving an estimated  2 to 4 weeks for delivery, so it sounds as if things will happen if I just sit tight.

Does it have the necessary texts and so on, as we hoped? Or is it just a box of discs?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on April 01, 2010, 01:45:41 PM
Has anyone yet received any info about their order of that Lully box set from Amazon that we talked about a few posts above? It's been only silence, so far, for me.

Silence for me as well, should have been shipped yesterday, but my credit card hasn't been charged yet and no emails explaining the delay. On product page they changed availability from 4-6 days (when I placed the order 10 days ago) to 2-4 weeks and now back to 5-10 days. I'm guessing their initial stock was very small.

Or Zoroastre.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519DZrRP92L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Any advice gratefully received. I don't mind modern productions, or even Regie, as long as it makes sense. (possibly the latter is an oxymoron... )

I have that Zoroastre but short on time right now. Will try to post on it tomorrow.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 01, 2010, 01:50:17 PM
On product page they changed availability from 4-6 days (when I placed the order 10 days ago) to 2-4 weeks and now back to 5-10 days.
That switch, from 2-4weeks to 5-10 days, only occurred today (this morning it was still 2-4 weeks). I guess that's a promising sign.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DarkAngel on April 01, 2010, 01:54:51 PM
Hello everyone, my first post on this opera forum which I've been following with pleasure,

Here are two more Rameau operas on DVD. (I mainly watch opera on DVD as I like the whole package). Quite a contrast.

My favourite of the two is “Les Boréades” conducted by William Christie
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FxCn7QufL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

The music is wonderful, choruses, dances and (i don’t really know if this is the word” – programmatic music – related for example to the weather, as in sweeping winds, or when the god Borée is impotently storming about it the last act, lots of little unfinished phrases. Also I personally love the colour given to the orchestration by the frequent domination of wind instruments.

The production highlights two main themes: la Liberté versus buttoned-up (literally) conformity, and the passage of the seasons.  The seasons are particularly beautifully incarnated, fields of spring flowers, twirling autumn leaves flung from whirling umbrellas, twinkling winter starts followed by flurries of snow, and back to spring again. The followers of liberty wear flowing white tunics, as opposed to the brutalist grey greatcoats and long leather gloves of the followers of the north wind. Liberty and love triumph in the end (the themes of the forthcoming revolution are already well represented in this opera, no wonder it was never shown at the time).

The main part is sung by Barbara Bonney, not an obvious choice for this genre, but she acquits herself well without necessarily producing what I can only call the “French sound” that you hear from Sandrine Piau, Véronique Gens, Patricia Petitbon. Other parts are sung by such veteran Rameau experts as Paul Agnew  and Nicolas RIvenq who will be familiar to fans of les Indes Galantes.

My only caveat is the dancing. It’s technically extremely accomplished, but the choreography is ultra-modern and consistently employs extremely fast, angular, exaggerated and robotic arm movements. It grew on me, but was rather exhausting. The explanation offered in the hour-long documentary (good old Opus Arte) is that the director wanted a modern counterpart to the high stylised and conventionalised movements of baroque dance.

Platée (cond Marc Minkowski) is the second opera, quite a different kettle of fish, or should I say frogs.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ARQ826ABL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

The story is much slighter, and is really an excuse for lots of “divertissements” particularly on the part of Folly (clad à la Marie-Antoinette in sheet music) and her dancers. Paul Agnew hangs up his hero’s arrow to play the titular ugly marsh nymph, whom (in a twist of particularly gallic logic) Jupiter pretends to marry in order to prove to Juno that he is not actually unfaithful to her (huh???) The production by Laurent Pelly is modern, Comédie Française meets Beatrix Potter with a bit of commedia dell’arte thrown in, and a rollicking time is had by all.

I’m now contemplating my next DVD purchases.

Pretty much decided on Les Paladins
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bu7Pj72cL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

But not sure about Castor et Pollux
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515rX%2BYMgoL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Or Zoroastre.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519DZrRP92L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Any advice gratefully received. I don't mind modern productions, or even Regie, as long as it makes sense. (possibly the latter is an oxymoron... )

There are two essential Rameau DVDs for me, the performances are a breath of fresh air with creative modern staging's, both under the most able guidance of William Christie........
 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YQ12TDGDL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bu7Pj72cL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
 
Always worth a trip to youtube to preview/explore any DVD you are looking to buy, excellent modern production video and sound:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVs5FxXAHD0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVs5FxXAHD0&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp66Vh1E-UE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp66Vh1E-UE&feature=related)

The Les Indes Gallant is the best baroque staging DVD of any opera/ballet I have ever seen, truely essential for the baroque fan.......if you have this already you know what I mean 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: mamascarlatti on April 01, 2010, 02:30:28 PM

There are two essential Rameau DVDs for me, the performances are a breath of fresh air with creative modern staging's, both under the most able guidance of William Christie........
 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YQ12TDGDL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bu7Pj72cL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
 
The Les Indes Gallant is the best baroque staging DVD of any opera/ballet I have ever seen, truely essential for the baroque fan.......if you have this already you know what I mean

 Yes thank you, I have Les Indes Galantes and love it to bits. I've lent it out to a ballet enthusiast friend and am looking forward to its return so I can watch it again.

I see you recommend Les Paladins. I'd love to know what you like about it.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DarkAngel on April 01, 2010, 04:06:15 PM
Yes thank you, I have Les Indes Galantes and love it to bits. I've lent it out to a ballet enthusiast friend and am looking forward to its return so I can watch it again.

I see you recommend Les Paladins. I'd love to know what you like about it.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bu7Pj72cL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
 
This Comedy/Ballet was a complete failure for Rameau and went right over the heads of French audience of the time 1760 and languished in complete obsurity ever since.......anarchy and parody rule the day in this work. The modern creative staging using multi-level back projected backdrops allows the genius to finally emerge, the many styles of dance including modern skillfully blend with baroque music/vocals to make this a thrilling surprising experience, how did they come up with all this cool stuff?
 
When I first saw this I was very surprised at its sophistication, almost like a drug trip so creative and dramatic in its presentation and skillfully blending of opera and dance elements......
 
The youtube video link above sets the stage of what to expect  :) 
 

 
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: mamascarlatti on April 01, 2010, 04:25:03 PM
I looked at the clip - Les Paladins looks really fascinating, rich and colourful, and is going in my Amazon cart. Thanks DarkAngel
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on April 01, 2010, 09:15:10 PM
Ah, well that's encouraging. Thanks Erato. I'm past their original estimated dispatch date, but I notice that they're now giving an estimated  2 to 4 weeks for delivery, so it sounds as if things will happen if I just sit tight.

Does it have the necessary texts and so on, as we hoped? Or is it just a box of discs?
Full texts, despite a compact box. Isis were very good.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 02, 2010, 12:13:49 AM
Full texts, despite a compact box. Isis were very good.

Excellent! Thanks.

Update from Amazon this morning, apologising for the delay in getting stock, and giving me a new arrival estimate (13-20 April).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on April 02, 2010, 10:26:27 AM
Or Zoroastre.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519DZrRP92L.jpg)

Any advice gratefully received. I don't mind modern productions, or even Regie, as long as it makes sense. (possibly the latter is an oxymoron... )

Zoroastre has rather straightforward plot. King of Bactria (ancient Persia) had died and two factions fight for the throne. Forces of light/good led by Zoroastre and forces of dark/evil led by Abramane. They are backing two female pretenders to the throne: Amelite, rightful hair (goodie) and Erinice, second in succession (badie). That’s about it.
Zoroastre is excellent haute-contre Anders J. Dahlin. Perhaps more lyrical than heroic, but beautiful voice, very agile and flexible. His acting is rudimentary with basically constant Ethan Hawkeish kind of dreamy posture, but then again Zoroastre is not that complicated character: he loves Amelite and fights for the good, period.
Amelite is sung by soprano Sine Bundgaard and in my opinion she is probably weakest link in leading quartet. Her start is bit shaky but gets fine onwards, though sounding pretty bland to me. It’s a bitch of a role dramatically, must be said. She has acreages of excellent music to sing but the character is completely passive one, Amelite loves Zoroastre and suffers from everybody else, but doesn’t really do anything, everything happens to her (gets kidnapped by Erinice in act I, then gets tortured by her in act II, Abramane nearly kills her in act III, nothing happens to her in act IV only because she’s not in it, and gets again kidnapped in act V, this time by Abramane). Bundgaard’s acting is mostly a complete enigma to me, I couldn’t really tell from her facial expressions and body language what is she trying to convey at many given moments. Could be my fault.
Bass-baritone Evgueniy Alexiev is Abramane, impressive voice but somewhat unwieldy in faster ornamented passages, acting overdone at moments too much eye-rolling, twitching and sneering for my taste, Gary Oldman on acid came to mind for some reason. Have to say he brings out his big aria, Osons achiever de grands crimes in quite impressive fashion, it is aria similar in tone to Iago’s Credo from Verdi’s Otello and Alexiev manages to come across as truly menacing and sinister. That is actually the only moment where I prefer this production to Christie’s Erato recording (audio only) where Nathan Berg singing Abramane adds touch of caricature to his character which I didn’t like, Abramane for me should be straight down the road bad guy: Scarpia, not Iznogoud.
Anna-Maria Panzarella as Erinice steals the show completely, though it mostly is her show. The character of Erinice is the most complex, psychologically and dramatically. She is a woman scorned, madly in love with Zoroastre, who doesn’t give a damn about her. Swinging between extreme feelings of hate and desire for vengeance, and love and being unable to act on her vengeance when moment appears. Making pacts with Abramane and then remorse kicks in and she can’t deliver, and then Abramane kicks her … Panzarella is spot on both vocally and dramatically, simply fantastic. Her final soliloquy in front of closed curtain at the beginning of act V is wonderfully poignant. She is perhaps even better in this production than she was some 5-6 years ago for Christie, where she was excellent as well.     
Rousset’s conducting is brisk, forward moving, very well shaped. He uses the same 1756 revised version of score as Christie but drops very last, epilogue like, solo aria for Amelite and ends on show-stopping duet with chorus: Qu’il l’ enchaine a jamais which strikes me as perfectly right thing to do theatrically. Although it is the same version Rousset’s orchestra sounds sparser than Christie’s to me, for instance I couldn’t spot any clarinets in the pit. Could be wrong though. Sound mix (stereo at least) favors the singers over orchestra to the extent that slightly makes me uncomfortable and strain to hear it. Maybe it’s the acoustics of Drottningholm, maybe I’m imagining but I wasn’t perfectly happy with the balance.
It is filmed in Drottningholm Theatre which is original baroque theatre: wooden planks, canvas backdrops, machinery operated by ropes, whole lot. One can google for pictures.
Costumes look period to me, though more casual period than haute-couture period, very nice without seeking too much attention.
Direction is not regietheater. My guess director Pierre Audi was in the first place limited by use of period theatre so he chose to go with original story and to make his points along the way through directing singers, lighting and camera. I’m not sure many of his points really work but did not find them too much obtrusive either. For instance he uses from time to time shots from unusual angles: from above and from deep within a stage, to which end flies over me. That kind of shots could be used in naturalistic settings to break away the ‘theatre magic’ and show the viewer that it is artifice after all, but with setting where artifice is obvious from moment one I fail to see the point. Another instance could be in act IV, which takes place in this secret temple of Ariman, supreme evil god, where Abramane takes his henchmen in attempt to regroup after initially being whopped by Zoroastre’s forces. There all kind of incantation happens and finally they invoke Ariman, whose thundering voice from beyond tells them to get their grip and go kick some ass. Now Audi chooses that Ariman's lines be sung by singer on stage and he uses the same singer which in Act II sung Oromases, high priest of the goodies who gives some mojo to Zoroastre and so forth. I’m guessing director is making point that ultimate good and ultimate evil are just different sides of ultimate one, or whatnot, which might be fine but he ruins the climax of Act IV because just another singer on stage is not the same as thundering voix souterraine (act IV anyhow comes of bit lame, doesn’t really convey the right mood for me).
Dancing is the robotic kind, it was supposed to comment on the plot but for the most time I don’t get the message, perhaps someone more perceptive would. Choreography on its own is actually quite interesting to watch and I found it enjoyable.
Basic line, I quite enjoyed the production for the most part, there is nothing very wrong with it but not everything is perfect and wouldn’t consider it a reference version (that would be Christie on CD). I wouldn’t pay the full price for it, but if you can find it cheaper do pick it up, it’s not like we are spoiled for choices.

edit: poor grammar, as usual

Update from Amazon this morning, apologising for the delay in getting stock, and giving me a new arrival estimate (13-20 April).
Same here.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: mamascarlatti on April 02, 2010, 05:08:02 PM

Basic line, I quite enjoyed the production for the most part, there is nothing very wrong with it but not everything is perfect and wouldn’t consider it a reference version (that would be Christie on CD). I wouldn’t pay the full price for it, but if you can find it cheaper do pick it up, it’s not like we are spoiled for choices.


Thank you for the full and informative review, Drasko. Zoroastre sounds like one to put on the wait and see list. As you say there is not a lot of choice, but more is coming out every year as the interest in baroque opera grows.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DarkAngel on April 02, 2010, 05:43:52 PM
Thank you for the full and informative review, Drasko. Zoroastre sounds like one to put on the wait and see list. As you say there is not a lot of choice, but more is coming out every year as the interest in baroque opera grows.

Youtube is an incredible resource to preview DVDs you are thinking of purchase, amazing what you can find there.....even Zoroastre
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p3z7q10DAU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p3z7q10DAU)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: mamascarlatti on April 02, 2010, 07:11:42 PM

Youtube is an incredible resource to preview DVDs you are thinking of purchase, amazing what you can find there.....even Zoroastre
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p3z7q10DAU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p3z7q10DAU)

You are of course quite right, and I am possibly guilty of not doing enough youtube watching before I buy. I think somehow I don't want to spoil the surprise for myself?!

My wallet does not thank you, DarkAngel, now i want to buy it again. :) Aaargh, save me from myself!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on April 02, 2010, 11:38:40 PM
My wallet does not thank you, DarkAngel, now i want to buy it again. :) Aaargh, save me from myself!

A familiar phenomenon around here - welcome to GMG! ;D

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: knight66 on April 02, 2010, 11:52:29 PM
DarkAngel, Thanks for drawing my attention to Les Paladins. I already have the life enhancing Christie version of Les Indes Galantes. I have placed the order for Paladines having had a look at YouTube. Excellent.

Mike
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DarkAngel on April 03, 2010, 02:23:52 PM
DarkAngel, Thanks for drawing my attention to Les Paladins. I already have the life enhancing Christie version of Les Indes Galantes. I have placed the order for Paladines having had a look at YouTube. Excellent.

Mike

Les Paladins has even more dance numbers than Indes Galantes, a mixture of all types of classical and modern dance including hybrid break dancing......sounds like a recipe for disaster but it succeeds brilliantly!
 
You will be impressed how creative they use the back projected screens, you will see two people dancing together and then realize only 1 is casting a shadow.....the other is an illusion
 
Also refreshing to see the lead singers also do some basic dance routines along with the professional dancers
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 10, 2010, 11:28:48 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HriCVl8BL.jpg)

I finally got a message from Amazon yesterday telling me that this amazing bargain box had been dispatched to me.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DarkAngel on April 10, 2010, 11:49:29 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HriCVl8BL.jpg)

I finally got a message from Amazon yesterday telling me that this amazing bargain box had been dispatched to me.

The music of the Sun King shall soon be yours.............
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: knight66 on April 10, 2010, 01:41:30 PM
Les Paladins has arrived and has been watched. What superb entertainment. At last I am starting to get my ear into this music and watching the very full documentary that is on disc two allowed me to re-listen to the highlights and I was surprised how much of the music had lodged after only one listen.

Sometimes there is perhaps a bit too much going on, but there is certainly never a boring moment. A very imaginative production that manages to hold the attention. Wonderful singing, dancing and playing.

Mike
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: DarkAngel on April 10, 2010, 01:48:48 PM
Les Paladins has arrived and has been watched. What superb entertainment. At last I am starting to get my ear into this music and watching the very full documentary that is on disc two allowed me to re-listen to the highlights and I was surprised how much of the music had lodged after only one listen.

Sometimes there is perhaps a bit too much going on, but there is certainly never a boring moment. A very imaginative production that manages to hold the attention. Wonderful singing, dancing and playing.

Mike

I forgot about the nice featurettes included for background info........always welcome
 
It is interesting how this baroque music can work so well with modern creative stage techniques, perhaps the old is the new again......the blending of music and dance is a wonderful thing to behold
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 14, 2010, 03:59:25 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HriCVl8BL.jpg)

At last this box arrived today. At under £30 for 10 CDs it is a bargain indeed, but, a warning to anyone out there who may be considering this set: although the texts of the operas are indeed given in the accompanying booklet, they're only in French. There are no translations.

Soooo... does anyone know where I can get translations of Bourgeois Gentilhomme, Isis, etc?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Franco on April 14, 2010, 05:05:19 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HriCVl8BL.jpg)

At last this box arrived today. At under £30 for 10 CDs it is a bargain indeed, but, a warning to anyone out there who may be considering this set: although the texts of the operas are indeed given in the accompanying booklet, they're only in French. There are no translations.

Soooo... does anyone know where I can get translations of Bourgeois Gentilhomme, Isis, etc?

I had ordered that set, but cancelled it yesterday after the second message (and after two months) from Amazon.uk informing me of its continued backordered status.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on April 14, 2010, 05:47:06 AM
Soooo... does anyone know where I can get translations of Bourgeois Gentilhomme, Isis, etc?

Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme shouldn't be too difficult, for the rest learning French might prove easier and quicker. But if you do manage to find Quinault in English let me know, my set is in mail.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: mamascarlatti on April 14, 2010, 12:25:27 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HriCVl8BL.jpg)

Soooo... does anyone know where I can get translations of Bourgeois Gentilhomme, Isis, etc?

A couple of the Bourgeois gentilhomme:

Literal but very dull

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2992/2992-h/2992-h.htm (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2992/2992-h/2992-h.htm)

Freer but closer to the spirit of the original:

http://www.rippon.net/bourgeois/sact1.htm (http://www.rippon.net/bourgeois/sact1.htm)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on April 14, 2010, 10:57:08 PM
A couple of the Bourgeois gentilhomme:

Literal but very dull

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2992/2992-h/2992-h.htm (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2992/2992-h/2992-h.htm)

Freer but closer to the spirit of the original:

http://www.rippon.net/bourgeois/sact1.htm (http://www.rippon.net/bourgeois/sact1.htm)
Marvellous! Thanks, Natalie.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on May 02, 2010, 03:05:52 PM
Soooo... does anyone know where I can get translations of Bourgeois Gentilhomme, Isis, etc?

English translations, free downloads, and you get to choose the text format:

http://www.munseys.com/book/3357/AMADIS_By_QUINAULT
http://www.munseys.com/book/3358/ISIS_By_Quinault
http://www.munseys.com/book/3356/ARMIDA_By_Quinault_1686
http://www.munseys.com/book/3359/ATYS_By_Quinault
http://www.munseys.com/book/3366/CADMUS_AND_HERMIONE_By_Quinault
http://www.munseys.com/book/3370/PERSEUS_By_QUINAULT
http://www.munseys.com/book/3373/CASTOR_AND_POLLUX,_By_Rameau_and_Bernard,_An_Opera
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on May 03, 2010, 02:22:12 AM
English translations, free downloads, and you get to choose the text format:

http://www.munseys.com/book/3357/AMADIS_By_QUINAULT
http://www.munseys.com/book/3358/ISIS_By_Quinault
http://www.munseys.com/book/3356/ARMIDA_By_Quinault_1686
http://www.munseys.com/book/3359/ATYS_By_Quinault
http://www.munseys.com/book/3366/CADMUS_AND_HERMIONE_By_Quinault
http://www.munseys.com/book/3370/PERSEUS_By_QUINAULT
http://www.munseys.com/book/3373/CASTOR_AND_POLLUX,_By_Rameau_and_Bernard,_An_Opera
What a bumper bonanza! Thanks very much indeed, Drasko.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on June 12, 2010, 11:46:33 PM
Don't know if I posted this personal website/blog on (French) Baroque opera before, but heartily recommended for those who can read French. :)

Le magazine de l'opéra baroque (http://operabaroque.fr/Cadre_baroque.htm)

Note the links to on line librettos: http://operabaroque.fr/Livrets.htm

And another source for (French) librettos: http://livretsbaroques.fr/operas.htm

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on July 10, 2010, 10:32:31 AM
Andre Campra's L'Europe galante is seminal work of French baroque theatar. Premiered in 1697 is the first opera-ballet (consists of several acts with independant plots, bound by some sort of general idea) and it represents shift in preference of French audiences toward lighter fare after domination of more demanding gesamtkunstwerk of Lullian tragédie lyrique.

Now why I'm writing this? Because I find moderately strange the fact that, to my knowledge, recording of complete piece doesn't exist. Only performance I'm aware of is 37 year old recording of about 50 minutes worth of excerpts by La Petite Bande under Leonhardt (http://www.amazon.de/Bourgois-Gentilhomme-Gustav-Leonhardt/dp/B0030BYU7U).

And why I'm writing this? Well, because on one of those Russian sites which law abiding classical music lover should avoid I found an unofficial recording of complete opera-ballet by forces of Academie baroque europeenne d'Ambronay. It's their 2005 production under baton of William Christie. Details of the production can be found here at their website - Academie baroque europeenne d'Ambronay (http://www.ambronay.org/Musique-baroque/Academie-baroque-europeenne-d-Ambronay/Historique/2005-L-Europe-Galante-Andre-Campra,i346.html). Obviously it's a student production and some voices are rougher and readier than other and we are facing an array of accents but it is generaly fine, and so is the orchestral playing under sure hand of Christie.

Recording (decent quality mp3 at 256 kbps, split into five files (acts)) can be downloaded from here:
http://files.mail.ru/8SIV5N
(wait 10 seconds countdown, then click on link saying Campra_-_Leurope_Galante_Christie.zip)

But sice Miss Dobbin butcheres a bit my favorite aria Paisibles lieux, here's Rachel Yakar with Leonhardt as a little bonus to those few who might be curious:
http://www.mediafire.com/?wnwjzqj1wzm
(don't let the tag saying Andre Destouches confuse you, Destouches wrote few arias for his teacher's opera-ballet)

 
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on October 05, 2010, 01:21:01 AM
A new issue! :o Comments are welcome.  :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4039956210139.jpg)

                               at jpc (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Jean-Philippe-Rameau-Les-Paladins/hnum/4898728)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on October 05, 2010, 10:02:38 AM
A new issue! :o Comments are welcome.  :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4039956210139.jpg)

                               at jpc (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Jean-Philippe-Rameau-Les-Paladins/hnum/4898728)

Q
Yes I know! newolde.com is a fine place for the latest news on new releases. I'm waiting for the critics on this; but this is one Rameau opera I lack.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on January 29, 2011, 05:31:20 AM
For those in vicinity of Paris, in May there will be revival of Lully's Atys under Christie at Opéra Comique.

http://www.opera-comique.com/en/atys/atys1.html

For those who aren't, there is complete concert performance of Bellérophon under Rousset from Versailles on youtube (single video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N2QDHnmmD8
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on January 29, 2011, 10:47:43 AM
For those in vicinity of Paris, in May there will be revival of Lully's Atys under Christie at Opéra Comique.

http://www.opera-comique.com/en/atys/atys1.html

For those who aren't, there is complete concert performance of Bellérophon under Rousset from Versailles on youtube (single video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N2QDHnmmD8
Scheduled for CD release in March.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on February 25, 2011, 12:04:01 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tvOaZk-nL.jpg)

Five operas plus Grand Motet on 11 DVDs, box set from Opus Arte, pre-order prices at around 50 Euros.

http://www.opusarte.com/en/pre-orders/rameau-operas.html
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Shrunk on April 24, 2011, 03:15:18 AM
Any recommendations for the operatic works of Lully and Rameau?  CD preferred over DVD.

I have tickets for Opera Atelier's production of Lully's Armide (http://www.operaatelier.com/season/armide.htm) next year, so I'm particularly interested in a recording of that.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: petrarch on April 24, 2011, 03:20:14 AM
Any recommendations for the operatic works of Lully and Rameau?  CD preferred over DVD.

I have tickets for Opera Atelier's production of Lully's Armide (http://www.operaatelier.com/season/armide.htm) next year, so I'm particularly interested in a recording of that.

Plenty of options here, with information and samples (especially the Alpha label):

http://www.outhere-music.com/
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on September 12, 2011, 02:33:22 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/arts/music/atys-french-baroque-opera-by-lully-at-bam.html?_r=1

For New Yorkers, 5 performances of Atys revival, September 18-24. I'm jealous.

http://www.bam.org/view.aspx?pid=3085
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on April 14, 2012, 08:16:32 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XQmGjDygL.jpg)

Idylle sur le Paix is 40 minute pastorale, writen in 1685 on elegant libretto by Jean Racine (their only collaboration) in celebration of Regensburg Truce. It was big success both at its premiere and later, often performed in place of prologue of other operas (even its content mostly resembles those).
That doesn't surprise, as it is some of finest music Lully wrote at height of his powers (within next year or two he'll write Armide, Roland and Acis et Galatee), in particular big chorus number 'Qu'il regne ce heros' and also concluding Chaconne pour Madame la Princesse de Conti is as good as Passacaille from Armide or Chaconne from Roland.
Performances are very good all around (although none of the singers is truly memorable, initially at least).

Companion piece is really only a make weight. It's short, under 15 minute suite of orchestral pieces from ballet La Temple de la Paix which Lully wrote the same year for the Dauphin (Louis XIV son).

Highly recommended, it could serve as nice intro into Lully's music due to its length, and also shouldn't be missed by seasoned Lullians
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on July 19, 2012, 03:07:41 PM
Paris Opera production of Rameau's Hippolyte et Aricie that premiered last month can already be watched on youtube in its entirety and in quite decent quality (recorded off Mezzo). I'm certain DVD release will follow, which will be, I believe, the first video of the opera, but for the impatient ones (although with only French subs):

http://www.youtube.com/v/NPJm0XRjVbc

Sarah Connolly (Phèdre),
Anne-Catherine Gillet (Aricie),
Topi Lehtipuu (Hippolyte),
Stéphane Degout (Thésée)
Le Concert d'Astree / Emmanuelle Haïm

I haven't watched it myself yet, but here's Nigel Wilkinson's review:
http://npw-opera-concerts.blogspot.com/2012/06/rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie.html



Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Elgarian on July 21, 2012, 06:19:02 AM
Paris Opera production of Rameau's Hippolyte et Aricie that premiered last month can already be watched on youtube in its entirety and in quite decent quality (recorded off Mezzo). I'm certain DVD release will follow, which will be, I believe, the first video of the opera, but for the impatient ones (although with only French subs):

http://www.youtube.com/v/NPJm0XRjVbc

Sarah Connolly (Phèdre),
Anne-Catherine Gillet (Aricie),
Topi Lehtipuu (Hippolyte),
Stéphane Degout (Thésée)
Le Concert d'Astree / Emmanuelle Haïm

This may be turn out to be the best thing since the wonderful Dumestre Cadmus & Hermione ...

Quote
I haven't watched it myself yet, but here's Nigel Wilkinson's review:
http://npw-opera-concerts.blogspot.com/2012/06/rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie.html

Interesting review, though pretty useless to me as a guide to the production. The Dumestre Cadmus & Hermione is one of the finest opera productions I've ever seen on DVD, but I know people who found it utterly tedious. I suspect this is a similar case. At any rate, I'll be in the queue to buy one when the DVD comes out. Thanks very much for the alert, Drasko.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: nico1616 on July 21, 2012, 12:37:31 PM
Paris Opera production of Rameau's Hippolyte et Aricie that premiered last month can already be watched on youtube in its entirety and in quite decent quality (recorded off Mezzo). I'm certain DVD release will follow, which will be, I believe, the first video of the opera, but for the impatient ones (although with only French subs):

http://www.youtube.com/v/NPJm0XRjVbc

Sarah Connolly (Phèdre),
Anne-Catherine Gillet (Aricie),
Topi Lehtipuu (Hippolyte),
Stéphane Degout (Thésée)
Le Concert d'Astree / Emmanuelle Haïm

I haven't watched it myself yet, but here's Nigel Wilkinson's review:
http://npw-opera-concerts.blogspot.com/2012/06/rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie.html

Thanks! These messages save me a Mezzo subsription :D
It looks like a great cast, I am especially interested in Topi Lehtipuu as Hippolyte. He has yet to give a performance that does not baffle me :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on September 02, 2013, 08:59:20 AM
New issue:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562227019.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on September 05, 2013, 01:19:59 PM
New issue:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562227019.jpg)

Q

And an important one at that. Les Sourprises de l'Amour haven't been recorded complete before, just some sort of suite by Minkowski.

I see this is three act version/revision, where Anacreon serves as a third act. Anacreon, separately written one-acter, has been recorded by both Christie and Minkowski, but for original first two acts this is the premiere. On the wishlist it goes, though the cheapskate in me wishes they had gone for two act - 2 CDs.

 
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on September 25, 2013, 07:51:27 AM
New releases:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/912tRQcZK-L._SL1429_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.fr/Lully-Phaéton-Jean-Baptiste/dp/B00EYFRWPI (http://www.amazon.fr/Lully-Phaéton-Jean-Baptiste/dp/B00EYFRWPI)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71j96rn6uBL._SL1200_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-Dardanus-Jean-Philippe/dp/B00DEPVMFU (http://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-Dardanus-Jean-Philippe/dp/B00DEPVMFU)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Geo Dude on June 12, 2014, 10:41:28 AM
I visited this section in hopes of finding a thread like this....of course, Harry did not disappoint. :P  I'm just beginning to dig into this material, with arias, instrumental excerpts, and a few operas on the way.  (And a few sitting on my shelf. :))

I'm pretty sure that I'll give in and get that Opus Arte box set next month; I've heard a lot of good things about it and the price is certainly right.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on June 17, 2014, 11:25:35 PM
I visited this section in hopes of finding a thread like this....of course, Harry did not disappoint. :P  I'm just beginning to dig into this material, with arias, instrumental excerpts, and a few operas on the way.  (And a few sitting on my shelf. :))

I'm pretty sure that I'll give in and get that Opus Arte box set next month; I've heard a lot of good things about it and the price is certainly right.

I 've already recommended it elsewhere, but I think Sabine Devieilhe's disc of Rameau arias is wonderful and might make a good point of entrance (myself, I've listened to plenty but not yet to many complete recordings ... they're piling up for when the time is right):



Here's a wonderful little promo-video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kNblZlxAN4
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: knight66 on June 18, 2014, 06:22:57 AM
Yes, you recommended it and I downloaded about half of it. A very enjoyable disc. I think I am beginning to get my ear in. For a long time I have felt that after half an hour it all sound the same. This singer brings the work to life.

Mike
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Geo Dude on June 18, 2014, 04:31:30 PM
I 've already recommended it elsewhere, but I think Sabine Devieilhe's disc of Rameau arias is wonderful and might make a good point of entrance (myself, I've listened to plenty but not yet to many complete recordings ... they're piling up for when the time is right):



That one is in the listening stack right now, actually. :)  I'd put together a few recordings in order form when I stumbled across that one, listened to the samples, and immediately knew that I had to have it.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on June 18, 2014, 10:57:46 PM
Yes, you recommended it and I downloaded about half of it. A very enjoyable disc. I think I am beginning to get my ear in. For a long time I have felt that after half an hour it all sound the same. This singer brings the work to life.

Mike

Yup, the disc is 81 minutes or so ... but it is paced very nicely I find, kind of delivers it's own storyline, with the "air de la folie" one of the highlights!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 05, 2014, 04:30:28 PM
[snip] ... This [i.e., Emmanuelle Haïm's DVD of Hippolyte et Aricie] may be turn out to be the best thing since the wonderful Dumestre Cadmus & Hermione ...

Interesting review, though pretty useless to me as a guide to the production. The Dumestre Cadmus & Hermione is one of the finest opera productions I've ever seen on DVD, but I know people who found it utterly tedious. I suspect this is a similar case. At any rate, I'll be in the queue to buy one when the DVD comes out. ... [snip]

It's out:

Rameau: Hippolyte et Aricie - Le Concert d’Astrée / Emmanuelle Haïm (DVD) (http://www.warnerclassics.com/release/3251821,0825646229178/emmanuelle-haim-rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie)

(http://opdwarner.com/sites/wmgtmseu01.prod.acquia-sites.com/files/styles/med/public/Hippolyte%20Cover%20low%20res.jpg)

I'm waiting for the Blu-ray.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Moonfish on October 08, 2014, 03:47:54 AM
So is everybody in this thread going crazy about the recent Rameau compilation? I know that the content has been posted elsewhere, but the French Baroque thread simply needs it as well!  :)

Peter PP - you stated (elsewhere) that you had mixed feelings about it? I guess the issue is the amount of overlap with recordings in one's collection. Certainly looks tempting.



"CD 1-3: Hippolyte et Aricie - William Christie
CD 4-6: Les Indes Galantes - Jean-François Paillard
CD 7-9: Castor et Pollux - Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10-11: Les Fêtes d'Hébé - William Christie
CD 12-13: Dardanus - Raymond Leppard
CD 14-15: Platée - Marc Minkowski
CD 16: Pigmalion - Nicholas McGegan
CD 17: Les Surprises de l'Amour - Marc Minkowski
CD 18-19: Naïs - Nicholas McGegan
CD 20-22: Zoroastre - William Christie
CD 23: La Guirlande - William Christie
CD 24: Zéphyre - William Christie
CD 25-27: Les Boréades - John Eliot Gardiner"
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 09, 2014, 01:29:31 AM
So is everybody in this thread going crazy about the recent Rameau compilation? ...

I hope so.

Quote
... I know that the content has been posted elsewhere, but the French Baroque thread simply needs it as well!  :)

Peter PP - you stated (elsewhere) that you had mixed feelings about it? ...

Yep. I find the older recordings (by Leppard, Paillard, and Harnoncourt) in that box set eminently resistible.

Leppard's Dardanus (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Dardanus-Jean-Philippe/) is old-fashioned – and that's not a compliment. I find it fascinating from a historical perspective (it was recorded in 1979, before HIP-ness began infecting affecting recordings of pre-Romantic music), but interpretation-wise it sticks out, sore-thumb-style, from the other recordings in the set.

Harnoncourt's Castor et Pollux (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Castor-Pollux-J-P/dp/B0012GSK9Y) sounds sour. (It's from 1972, when period instruments tended to be recorded unflatteringly – as this one was.) I'm also not keen on the interpretation. It's stern and humourless. (I could imagine Maestro H having a furrowed brow throughout the entirety of the recording.)

As for Paillard's Les Indes Galantes (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-galantes-Jean-Philippe/dp/B0055CJ8P6)...

I thought I had that recording, but I don't. Oops. I'm in no position to say anything about it. I do, however, have Paillard's album, Rameau à Versailles (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Versailles-Concerti-Hippolyte-Aricie/dp/B00000E8TU). If Paillard's Les Indes Galantes (http://Les Indes Galantes) sounds anything like Rameau à Versailles, it's going to sound very old.

Incidentally, I don't know why Erato didn't license the William Christie / Les Arts Florissants recording of Les Indes Galantes (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027O75) from Harmonia Mundi. (Maybe they don't like Harmonia Mundi.)

Quote
... I guess the issue is the amount of overlap with recordings in one's collection. Certainly looks tempting.

While I'm still in "Grrr" mode, I'm wondering why it's a 27-CD set. Why didn't Erato add Nicholas McGegan's recording of La Princesse de Navarre (http://www.amazon.com/Princesse-Navarre-Rameau/dp/B000001Z34/)? That's an Erato (single) CD, and that could have easily been added, making it a 28-disc set. Easy. And find two CDs* or a double-CD in the vaults, and you've got yourself a 30-disc set. Even easier.

Overall, given that there are (to me) a few clunkers in the set, I'd recommend leaving the set alone and pestering eBay (http://www.ebay.com/) or Amazon (http:///www.amazon.com/) (or whoever you prefer) for secondhand cheapies.

But if you're a completist, and you like the idea of some one-stop Rameau-shopping, start saving...

Oh, by the way:

Would you (or anyone else reading this) like me to put some excerpts of what I've been talking about on YouTube for you to hear? Just say the word, and I'll add a few tracks from those operas.

(*Erato have two Rameau compilations, Tragédiennes I (http://www.amazon.com/Trag%C3%A9diennes-1-Jean-Baptiste-Lully/dp/B000BU99CO) and Tragédiennes II (http://www.amazon.com/Trag%C3%A9diennes-Rameau-Berlioz-Christophe-Rousset/dp/B0020GUXU4). They could have added those, rounding off the set quite nicely.)

Quote



"CD 1-3: Hippolyte et Aricie - William Christie
CD 4-6: Les Indes Galantes - Jean-François Paillard
CD 7-9: Castor et Pollux - Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10-11: Les Fêtes d'Hébé - William Christie
CD 12-13: Dardanus - Raymond Leppard
CD 14-15: Platée - Marc Minkowski
CD 16: Pigmalion - Nicholas McGegan
CD 17: Les Surprises de l'Amour - Marc Minkowski
CD 18-19: Naïs - Nicholas McGegan
CD 20-22: Zoroastre - William Christie
CD 23: La Guirlande - William Christie
CD 24: Zéphyre - William Christie
CD 25-27: Les Boréades - John Eliot Gardiner"

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on October 09, 2014, 03:46:29 AM

Incidentally, I don't know why Erato didn't license the William Christie / Les Arts Florissants recording of Les Indes Galantes (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027O75) from Harmonia Mundi. (Maybe they don't like Harmonia Mundi.)


Or might it have something to do with Harmonia Mundi including the Christie set in their recent - and wonderful - Opéra Baroque box? Completely agree with you about the Harnoncourt and Leppard recordings. And the Paillard account of Indes Galantes is a very distant third to Christie's and the rambunctious new recording conducted by Hugo Reyne.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on October 09, 2014, 05:44:39 AM
So is everybody in this thread going crazy about the recent Rameau compilation?

Not really, about third of it I already have, another third I'm not sure I want, and the rest I either have in other performances or would prefer to get as used singles with printed libretti.

Incidentally, I don't know why Erato didn't license the William Christie / Les Arts Florissants recording of Les Indes Galantes (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027O75) from Harmonia Mundi. (Maybe they don't like Harmonia Mundi.)

I'm not sure if Harmonia Mundi licenses their recordings to other labels at all. I can't think of single one off top of my head. Besides they have released their own Rameau box with said Les Indes Galantes.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 09, 2014, 04:32:57 PM
Not really, about third of it I already have, another third I'm not sure I want, and the rest I either have in other performances or would prefer to get as used singles with printed libretti.

I'm not sure if Harmonia Mundi licenses their recordings to other labels at all. I can't think of single one off top of my head. Besides they have released their own Rameau box with said Les Indes Galantes.

This'd be the one you mentioned:

(http://www.harmoniamundi.com/__media/document/5426/5426_v.jpg) (http://store.harmoniamundi.com/jean-philippe-rameau.html)

http://store.harmoniamundi.com/jean-philippe-rameau.html (http://store.harmoniamundi.com/jean-philippe-rameau.html)

Boxset CD Jean-Philippe Rameau Les Arts Florissants
250 years after his death, Jean-Philippe Rameau continues to fascinate the musical scene the world over, as is shown by the number of new productions of his operas scheduled for 2014 and beyond. But the Dijon-born composer also owes some of his current popularity to the passionate advocacy of William Christie. This sumptuous box set collects all the Rameau recordings he made for harmonia mundi in the 1980s and 1990s. Its selection of opéra-ballet, tragédie lyrique and harpsichord pieces highlights the multiple facets of an eminently classical œuvre, masterfully interpreted by this American-born musician who has become the foremost interpreter of 17th- and 18th-century French music. A must!

Contents:

Les Indes galantes
Castor et Pollux
Pygmalion
Nélée et Myrthis
Anacréon

Pièces de clavecin (1724)
Nouvelles Suites de pièces de clavecin (1728)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 09, 2014, 04:45:48 PM
Or might it have something to do with Harmonia Mundi including the Christie set in their recent - and wonderful - Opéra Baroque box?

This one?

Opéra Baroque - A Luxurious Limited Edition Box Set (http://www.hm-distribution.com/blog/2013/11/11/6vcqwn6r8lcadl1bir6200ds3gw0ln)

(http://static.squarespace.com/static/519bed0ee4b09e4694be34ce/t/52813d5ee4b0c046bfab4ecf/1384201582306/OperaBaroque500.jpg) (http://www.hm-distribution.com/blog/2013/11/11/6vcqwn6r8lcadl1bir6200ds3gw0ln)

The only Rameau in that box set is Les Indes galantes.

(http://static.squarespace.com/static/519bed0ee4b09e4694be34ce/t/52812087e4b05645e63646d7/1384194224737/OB3.jpg) (http://www.hm-distribution.com/blog/2013/11/11/6vcqwn6r8lcadl1bir6200ds3gw0ln)

Quote
Completely agree with you about the Harnoncourt and Leppard recordings. ...

Yeah, they're a little bit old in the tooth. (I have no problem with the age of recordings in general, but performance practice back then was a lot different.)

Quote
... And the Paillard account of Indes Galantes is a very distant third to Christie's and the rambunctious new recording conducted by Hugo Reyne.

I wouldn't doubt that for a moment.

It looks like the new Indes Galantes recording is a mighty fine interpretation. The person who runs NewOlde.com's Rameau page raves about it (http://www.newolde.com/rameau.htm).

I'm looking forward to getting it, but I can't find it cheap – or at least cheap-ish – anywhere. ($35 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Musiques%2B%25C3%25A0%2Bla%2BChabotterie/605013) is a bit pricey for me. $18.98 for the MP3s (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Hugo-Reyne/dp/B00K04U9KM) at Amazon.com is not too bad, price-wise, but the sound quality would be gruesome. Qobuz is selling the CD-quality files for AUS$29, and the studio-quality files for AUS$43 (http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/jean-philippe-rameau-les-indes-galantes-valerie-gabail-stephanie-revidat-reinoud-van-mechelen-aimery-lefevre-sydney-fierro-le-choeur-du-marais-simphonie-du-marais-hugo-reyne/3770003333029), but I ain't gonna pay that much for something that isn't a CD. Just call me Cheapskate Pete.)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3770003333029.jpg) (http://www.simphonie-du-marais.org/disque_les-indes-galantes/?lang=en)

http://www.simphonie-du-marais.org/disque_les-indes-galantes/?lang=en
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 09, 2014, 05:42:36 PM
I've already recommended it elsewhere, but I think Sabine Devieilhe's disc of Rameau arias is wonderful and might make a good point of entrance (myself, I've listened to plenty but not yet to many complete recordings ... they're piling up for when the time is right):



Here's a wonderful little promo-video Here are some promo-videos:

http://www.youtube.com/v/H3nDALkNrfA

http://www.youtube.com/v/yqeE1I6R7Hw

http://www.youtube.com/v/pRYj4IyHac4


And a 13-minute making-of video:

http://www.youtube.com/v/FbL6VbQz8PA
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on October 10, 2014, 12:20:26 AM

It looks like the new Indes Galantes recording is a mighty fine interpretation. The person who runs NewOlde.com's Rameau page raves about it (http://www.newolde.com/rameau.htm).


I don't always find myself agreeing with NewOlde, but in this case I'm with him 100%. And for some reason it's not expensive in the UK - £20 at MDT, and less than £17 at Amazon.uk

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 14, 2014, 06:45:22 PM
[snip]

It looks like the new Indes Galantes recording is a mighty fine interpretation. The person who runs NewOlde.com's Rameau page raves about it (http://www.newolde.com/rameau.htm).

I'm looking forward to getting it, but I can't find it cheap – or at least cheap-ish – anywhere. ($35 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Musiques%2B%25C3%25A0%2Bla%2BChabotterie/605013) is a bit pricey for me. $18.98 for the MP3s (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Hugo-Reyne/dp/B00K04U9KM) at Amazon.com is not too bad, price-wise, but the sound quality would be gruesome. Qobuz is selling the CD-quality files for AUS$29, and the studio-quality files for AUS$43 (http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/jean-philippe-rameau-les-indes-galantes-valerie-gabail-stephanie-revidat-reinoud-van-mechelen-aimery-lefevre-sydney-fierro-le-choeur-du-marais-simphonie-du-marais-hugo-reyne/3770003333029), but I ain't gonna pay that much for something that isn't a CD. Just call me Cheapskate Pete.)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3770003333029.jpg) (http://www.simphonie-du-marais.org/disque_les-indes-galantes/?lang=en)

http://www.simphonie-du-marais.org/disque_les-indes-galantes/?lang=en
I don't always find myself agreeing with NewOlde, but in this case I'm with him 100%. And for some reason it's not expensive in the UK - £20 at MDT, and less than £17 at Amazon.uk

After moaning about how expensive it was, I finally gave in and bought the new Les Indes Galantes. I couldn't help myself. It kept looking at me, and wouldn't leave me alone as I tried to go about my daily business, and no amount of saying to myself "Nah, that's way too dear" prevented it from tempting me with its availability. Curse you, O Discs of Temptation!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 14, 2014, 08:26:49 PM
It looks like there's another new Rameau disc that I'm going to have to try not to buy...

Rameau: Les Fêtes de l'Hymen et de l'Amour

Chantal Santon-Jeffery (soprano)
Carolyn Sampson (soprano)
Blandine Staskiewicz (soprano)
Jennifer Borghi (alto)
Reinoud Van Mechelen (countertenor)
Mathias Vidal (countertenors)
Tassis Christoyannis (bass)
Alain Buet (basses)

Le Concert Spirituel
Hervé Niquet, conductor

World Premiere Recording

(http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/files/References/337/GCD_921629_front_HD.jpg) (http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/reference.aspx?id=337)

About this CD:

The latest in Hervé Niquet and Le Concert Spirituel’s “reinvigorations” of French operatic music from the Baroque and beyond for Glossa is Jean-Philippe Rameau’s 1747 Les Fêtes de l’Hymen et de l’Amour, a ballet heroïque in a prologue and three entrées, the whole work designed, when first created, to comprise a complete theatrical spectacle. Music for dancing – as befits a ballet – is given a prominent role and Rameau is able to create new orchestral sonorities, especially in the ballets figurés which encouraged the author to compose especially expressive symphonies and to give the choruses – even a double-chorus – an integral role in the action. Added to this are supernatural effects, and plots for the entrées which explored the then uncommon world of Egyptian mythology (including a musical depiction of the flooding of the River Nile).

In his vocal music Rameau deftly switches between the Italianizing style and the French mode of expression current in the mid-18th century, all of which allows the team of vocal soloists – led by the three sopranos Chantal Santon-Jeffery, Carolyn Sampson and Blandine Staskiewicz – to demonstrate their accomplished talents. Overseen by the Centre de musique baroque de Versailles, and with a descriptive booklet from Thomas Soury, this new recording is an important addition to the Rameau catalogue – the more so in the 250th anniversary year of the composer’s death. It brings to life one of Rameau’s finer, if underrated, compositions, and a dramatic work written on the cusp of important reforms in opera.

Glossa Music: http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/reference.aspx?id=337 (http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/reference.aspx?id=337)

Buy from:
Amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rameau-F%C3%AAtes-Hymen-Concert-Spirituel/dp/B00N3E6L44)
Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-lHymen-lAmour-Mathias-Vidal/dp/B00N3E6L44)
Amazon.fr (http://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-F%C3%AAtes-lHymen-lAmour-Niquet/dp/B00MAI6LQC)
ArkivMusic (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1559200)
FNAC (http://musique.fnac.com/a7633679/Jean-Philippe-Rameau-Fetes-de-l-hymen-et-de-l-amour-CD-album)
Harmonia Mundi Store (http://store.harmoniamundi.com/les-fetes-de-l-hymen.html)
iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/ie/album/rameau-les-fetes-lhymen-et/id922286952)
Premiereopera Italy (http://premiereopera.net/product/les-fetes-de-lhymen-et-de-lamour-by-rameau-paris-2014/)
Presto Classical (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Glossa/GCD921629)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on October 15, 2014, 02:17:25 AM
It looks like there's another new Rameau disc that I'm going to have to try not to buy...

Rameau: Les Fêtes de l'Hymen et de l'Amour
That ship has sailed for me I'm afraid.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 15, 2014, 03:18:45 AM
That ship has sailed for me I'm afraid.

I don't know if the complete inability to resist buying Rameau CDs is a blessing or a curse.

Up until a moment ago, I was the only person I knew who couldn't walk past a disc that had the word "Rameau" on the front. I'm glad to meet a fellow PPORG.*

(*Persistent Purchaser Of Rameau Goods.)

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: ritter on October 15, 2014, 03:44:44 AM
I don't know if the complete inability to resist buying Rameau CDs is a blessing or a curse.

Up until a moment ago, I was the only person I knew who couldn't walk past a disc that had the word "Rameau" on the front. I'm glad to meet a fellow PPORG.*

(*Persistent Purchaser Of Rameau Goods.)
Well, I'm afraid I may have been infected  ::)...it seems like a mild afflication at present, but, doctor, ¿does it necessarily get worse?  :o

 ;)

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on October 15, 2014, 05:23:27 AM
Well, I'm afraid I may have been infected  ::)...it seems like a mild afflication at present, but, doctor, ¿does it necessarily get worse?  :o

 ;)

I think it does. My Rameau habit quickly developed into full-blown French Baroque addiction, which has required regular & expensive doses of Marais, Dauvergne, Destouches, Boismortier, Royer, De Lalande, Couperin, Charpentier - and of course lashes of Lully. Next up: Lully's Atys, released in the UK next week, from the team that brought us the new Indes Galantes.



Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Moonfish on October 15, 2014, 07:01:54 AM
Well, I'm afraid I may have been infected  ::)...it seems like a mild afflication at present, but, doctor, ¿does it necessarily get worse?  :o

 ;)

I think Peter PP is a carrier of the Rameau virus! I think I am coming down with something Baroque!    :P
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: ritter on October 15, 2014, 07:14:24 AM
I think it does. My Rameau habit quickly developed into full-blown French Baroque addiction, which has required regular & expensive doses of Marais, Dauvergne, Destouches, Boismortier, Royer, De Lalande, Couperin, Charpentier - and of course lashes of Lully. Next up: Lully's Atys, released in the UK next week, from the team that brought us the new Indes Galantes.
Well, I myself have always been a sucker for tragédies en musique, but this particular Rameau-craze is some sort of new strain... :)

Have you heard Atys before? Wonderful, wonderful piece...."Dormons, dormons tous" . I still cherish the memory of seeing Christie and his Les Arts Florissants do it in the beautiful Villégier staging here in Madrid in the late 80s... :) :) :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Moonfish on October 15, 2014, 07:16:37 AM
Succumbed and received the recent Erato compilation today. A mild fever has started...... hmmmmmm

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Moonfish on October 15, 2014, 07:19:21 AM
Testing the waters from this compilation with "Les Fetes d'Hebe".  Wish me luck!

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: ritter on October 15, 2014, 07:31:59 AM
 Well, I see Les Boréades looming in the listening horizon for tonight... :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on October 15, 2014, 07:40:36 AM

Have you heard Atys before? Wonderful, wonderful piece...."Dormons, dormons tous" . I still cherish the memory of seeing Christie and his Les Arts Florissants do it in the beautiful Villégier staging here in Madrid in the late 80s... :) :) :)

I have the Christie recording of Atys, and have watched the Villégier production on DVD - but am deeply envious that you saw it on stage.

Have you seen the Haim/Alexandre production of Hippolyte et Aricie? From the clips on YouTube, it looks wonderful.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: ritter on October 15, 2014, 07:47:22 AM


Have you seen the Haim/Alexandre production of Hippolyte et Aricie? From the clips on YouTube, it looks wonderful.
Nope...but a friend of mine saw it live at the Palais Garnier and was overwhelmd...He arrived at the conclusion that Hippolyte is, along with Pelléas et Mélisande and Les Troyens one of the greatest French operas ever! I must seek out that DVD (oh, this fever, this fever  ::) )
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 15, 2014, 04:38:52 PM
I have the Christie recording of Atys, and have watched the Villégier production on DVD - but am deeply envious that you saw it on stage.

Have you seen the Haim/Alexandre production of Hippolyte et Aricie? From the clips on YouTube, it looks wonderful.

It sure does.

http://www.youtube.com/v/W-5qzH0d2Hg

http://www.youtube.com/v/wZdrNY_TA78
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 23, 2014, 11:43:50 PM
Testing the waters from this compilation with "Les Fetes d'Hebe".  Wish me luck!



There are three available recordings featuring Les Fêtes d'Hébé:
If you're interested in comparing the different styles of each conductor, here's the same excerpt from the opera:



Les Fêtes d'Hébé ou Les Talens Liriques, Acte III "La Danse", Scène 6 - Premier et Deuxième Gavottes
Les Arts Florissants / William Christie
http://www.youtube.com/v/5EhV90J08jA



Les Fêtes d'Hébé (Paris, 1739. Suite from the Opéra-ballet) - Gavottes en rondeau pour les bergers
Orchestra of the 18th Century / Frans Brüggen
http://www.youtube.com/v/kqfovCIWmec



Les Fêtes d'Hébé, 3ème Entrée: La Danse, Acte de ballet - 2 Gavottes en Rondeau
Monteverdi Orchestra / John Eliot Gardiner
http://www.youtube.com/v/a8GJtRm9VFw
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 24, 2014, 12:01:16 AM
[snip] ... My Rameau habit quickly developed into full-blown French Baroque addiction ... [snip]

I know exactly where you're coming from, JC.

For anyone who likes Rameau's operas and wants to see what else is out there, I can thoroughly recommend Mondonville's Les Fêtes de Paphos (http://www.amazon.com/Mondonville-Fouch%C3%A9court-Lalouette-lyriques-Rousset/dp/B000004CYX). It's very Rameau-ian, though not as innovative. (I'd call it "Rameau-Lite".) It is, however, very enjoyable for anyone who's been bitten by the Rameau bug. I'd go so far as to say Les Fêtes de Paphos is the best Rameau opera not written by Rameau.

Here it is:

Mondonville - Les Fêtes de Paphos (1758)

Sandrine Piau (sop)
Véronique Gens (sop)
Agnès Mellon (sop)
Jean-Paul Fouchécourt (ten)
Olivier Lallouette (bar)
Peter Harvey (bar)
James Oxley (ten)

Les Talens Lyriques / Christophe Rousset
(Recorded 1997)

Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Mondonville-Fouch%C3%A9court-Lalouette-lyriques-Rousset/dp/B000004CYX)

CD 1
http://www.youtube.com/v/Z3Ylx6fxcCU

CD 2
http://www.youtube.com/v/Dx3-jdlcI8k
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on October 24, 2014, 09:27:42 AM

I'd go so far as to say Les Fêtes de Paphos is the best Rameau opera not written by Rameau.


I wish I'd thought of that - brilliantly put, PPP.

I was sent a review copy of Les Fêtes de Paphos when it was released, but failed to appreciate it at the time. Now, approaching Mondonville after immersion in Rameau and his precursors, I can only wonder why I was so obtuse. You have his Grands Motets, I assume?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 28, 2014, 05:23:16 PM
And in the expensive corner...

Mondonville - Titon et l'Aurore
Les Musiciens du Louvre / Marc Minkowski

eBay: US$164.75 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mondonville-Titon-et-lAurore-CD-2-Discs-Erato-USA-/301343989181) (Yes, really.)

(http://img.maniadb.com/images/album/258/258596_1_f.jpg) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mondonville-Titon-et-lAurore-CD-2-Discs-Erato-USA-/301343989181)

And it's not even new.

At least over at Amazon.com it's a much more reasonable US$30.17 (http://www.amazon.com/Mondonville-Titon-lAurore-Jean-Joseph-Cassanea/dp/B000009J8Q) (also used, but affordable).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on October 28, 2014, 11:01:46 PM
Hi everybody. :)

I'm pleased to see that the interest in Barroque opera and French Baroque music in general has been rekindled! :)

I have made an adjustment by widening the scope of this thread to all Baroque Opera. Currently there is no designated place on the Opera and Vocal board to post about non-French opera, and more/separate threads does not make much sense.

In addition, some non-opera posts have been moved to the French Baroque thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1729.msg842410.html#msg842410)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on November 08, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
New:

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4260307434915.jpg)

Q

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on November 08, 2014, 05:33:23 PM
New:

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4260307434915.jpg)

Q

À chacun son goût.

Your signature: "À chacun son goût."

Translation: [Father talking to his son about him correctly identifying a form of Baroque music] "A chaconne, son. Good."
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: North Star on November 08, 2014, 05:51:40 PM
Your signature: "À chacun son goût."

Translation: [Father talking to his son about him correctly identifying a form of Baroque music] "A chaconne, son. Good."
No, it means 'the chaconne of the person with gout'.  8)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on November 09, 2014, 12:43:10 AM
I love chaccones, obviously.  :D

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Gordo on November 09, 2014, 07:34:27 PM
With a warm recommendation:

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028947933564.jpg)

Live recording.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on November 10, 2014, 01:33:24 AM
With a warm recommendation:

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028947933564.jpg)

Live recording.

Hopefully, she wasn't too bothered by the butterflies when she was singing.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Gordo on November 10, 2014, 04:20:06 AM
Hopefully, she wasn't too bothered by the butterflies when she was singing.

Yes! She was a true professional.  ;D

I think it's a nice cover.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on November 10, 2014, 06:16:07 AM
With a warm recommendation:

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028947933564.jpg)

Live recording.

I was going to buy this, but hesitated after reading a less than enthusiastic review on Amazon by someone whose judgement I usually trust. The review concludes: 'It seems to me that, while Caldara did his job with this score like a good professional, his heart wasn't really in the libretto's nonsense. It's attractive music on the whole, but I've heard much better from this composer especially in his sacred, as well as his genuinely heartfelt secular music. Having said that, Andrea Marcon and his excellent musicians make the best possible case for this revival of a work which, to my ears at least, is by no means in the top rank by the standards of this composer.'

A nonsensical libretto isn't in itself a deterrent, but would you rate the music more highly than this reviewer does?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on November 10, 2014, 10:44:00 AM
Does anybody have a view on this? It's just become available in the UK, and I'm very tempted, having been wowed by Reyne's Rameau.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Gordo on November 10, 2014, 10:59:25 AM
I was going to buy this, but hesitated after reading a less than enthusiastic review on Amazon by someone whose judgement I usually trust. The review concludes: 'It seems to me that, while Caldara did his job with this score like a good professional, his heart wasn't really in the libretto's nonsense. It's attractive music on the whole, but I've heard much better from this composer especially in his sacred, as well as his genuinely heartfelt secular music. Having said that, Andrea Marcon and his excellent musicians make the best possible case for this revival of a work which, to my ears at least, is by no means in the top rank by the standards of this composer.'

A nonsensical libretto isn't in itself a deterrent, but would you rate the music more highly than this reviewer does?

Yes, it's great fun.

Music and interpretation are excellent. One of the best things recorded this year in the Baroque field.  :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on November 10, 2014, 12:58:57 PM
Damn. I thought I might be able to save a bit of cash there, but evidently I have to buy it.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on November 10, 2014, 04:04:43 PM
With a warm recommendation:

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028947933564.jpg)

Live recording.

I was going to buy this, but hesitated after reading a less than enthusiastic review on Amazon by someone whose judgement I usually trust. The review concludes: 'It seems to me that, while Caldara did his job with this score like a good professional, his heart wasn't really in the libretto's nonsense. It's attractive music on the whole, but I've heard much better from this composer especially in his sacred, as well as his genuinely heartfelt secular music. Having said that, Andrea Marcon and his excellent musicians make the best possible case for this revival of a work which, to my ears at least, is by no means in the top rank by the standards of this composer.'

A nonsensical libretto isn't in itself a deterrent, but would you rate the music more highly than this reviewer does?

Yes, it's great fun.

Music and interpretation are excellent. One of the best things recorded this year in the Baroque field.  :)

Damn. I thought I might be able to save a bit of cash there, but evidently I have to buy it.

There are some excerpts on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Wy4dyqC0gW8

http://www.youtube.com/v/dZfAmnsPI3k

http://www.youtube.com/v/-usuqj1__G4

http://www.youtube.com/v/HjkdzvjK6nE


And you can hear samples of five tracks over at SoundCloud:

https://soundcloud.com/deutschegrammophon/sets/andrea-marcon-antonio-caldara-la-concordia-de-pianeti (https://soundcloud.com/deutschegrammophon/sets/andrea-marcon-antonio-caldara-la-concordia-de-pianeti)

Album details:

http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4793356 (http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4793356)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on December 14, 2014, 03:24:25 AM
New release! :)


Quote
Glossa devotes it latest Rameau offering to a further ballet héroïque, 'Les Fêtes de Polymnie', directed by György Vashegyi, featuring Aurélia Legay, Emöke Barath and Mathias Vidal, led by the incomparable Véronique Gens in arious vocal roles that appear in the Prologue and the three Entrées of this work. Composed in 1745, an annus mirabilis for France, Rameau, aided by his reformist librettist Louis de Cahusac s preferences for choruses and ballets, conjured up in addition to sparkling arias and recitatives a dazzling mosaic of intermèdes, passacailles, chaconnes and descriptive symphonies interspersed with vivid choral contributions, which the Purcell Choir and the Orfeo Orchestra deliver with refinement and spirit on this new recording of the festivities. As with the recent 'Les Fêtes de l Hymen et de l Amour' (conducted by Hervé Niquet), this modern-day revindication of 'Les Fêtes de Polymnie' is matched by an essay about the score (placed within its historical context) from Benoît Dratwicki of the supporting institution for this recording, the Centre de Musique Baroque de Versailles.

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on December 14, 2014, 03:45:10 PM
New release! :)


Q

More Rameau? Yes please.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on December 14, 2014, 04:13:07 PM
New release! :)


Q

January 12, 2015 (according to Amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00PKLTFOG/worldtwitch09)).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Gordo on December 14, 2014, 04:37:06 PM


Q

 :-[ :blank:  :D
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Purusha on December 14, 2014, 07:01:00 PM
I like Rameau's keyboard works, but his operas don't seem to do much for me. The one i tried (Zoroastre) seemed to be rather... scant, musically speaking. Not sure what to make of it. Perhaps i need more time, but it felt like the music was there mainly to help the drama along and didn't stand that well on its own. Are all his operas like this?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on December 14, 2014, 09:06:55 PM
I like Rameau's keyboard works, but his operas don't seem to do much for me. The one i tried (Zoroastre) seemed to be rather... scant, musically speaking. Not sure what to make of it. Perhaps i need more time, but it felt like the music was there mainly to help the drama along and didn't stand that well on its own. Are all his operas like this?

Nope.

For dramatic heft: Hippolyte et Aricie (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Panzarella-Delunsch-Florissants/dp/B000005E4S)

For dramatic heft (with extra sadness): Castor et Pollux (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Castor-Pollux-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027P8K)

For non-stop glorious tunes: Les fêtes d'Hébé (http://www.amazon.com/Fetes-DHebe-Jean-Philippe-Rameau/dp/B008F2J3LW)

For spectacle (and non-stop glorious tunes): Les Indes galantes (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027O75)

However, my favourite Rameau opera is Les Boréades (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Les-Boreades-Gardiner-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000009INY). It has all of the above.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on December 16, 2014, 07:35:36 AM
More…  8)



Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on December 16, 2014, 07:46:52 AM
Newish … arias compared by Gluck and Antonio Sacchini - anyone heard it already? :)

All  additional information I could find is in German...



Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on December 16, 2014, 07:51:53 AM
Nice..and intriguing..

Who was this guy?  ::)



G. A. Brescianellos (1690-1758). Tisbe, based on the popular tale of Pyramus and Thisbe, was the result of a commission from the Duke Eberhard IV Ludwig of Wurttemberg to his court composer to write a work to conclude the Carnival season 1718/19. Il Giusto Barocco rediscovered the opera in the Württemberg State Library, submitted it to musicological scrutiny, and rendered it once again performable. Jorg Halubek and Il Giusto Baroccodemonstrate they now have a place in the first ranks of German baroque orchestras. [Opernwelt, following the 2012 concert premiere]

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Decaffeinato on December 30, 2014, 02:20:39 PM
I'm apparently going to be going to a performance of Rodelinda.  Can anyone give me an idea of what i'm in for?  This will be the first baroque opera I've attended in person.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on December 30, 2014, 07:57:02 PM
I'm apparently going to be going to a performance of Rodelinda.  Can anyone give me an idea of what i'm in for?  This will be the first baroque opera I've attended in person.

Here's the music:

http://www.youtube.com/v/9zu4Ry50RDk
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on December 30, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
I'm apparently going to be going to a performance of Rodelinda.  Can anyone give me an idea of what i'm in for?  This will be the first baroque opera I've attended in person.

Is this the production you're going to by any chance?

Quote
http://opera.culturaldistrict.org/production/40598/Rodelinda (http://opera.culturaldistrict.org/production/40598/Rodelinda)

(https://culturaldistrict-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/culturaldistrict/system/assets/8733/original/main_40598.jpg)

RODELINDA

CAPA Theater
Pittsburgh Opera
412-456-6666
January 24, 2015 - February 1, 2015

NEW PRODUCTION!

In one of Handel's most popular operas, Queen Rodelinda endures grief, terror, and political upheaval, but remains steadfastly loyal as she waits – and works – to bring her exiled husband home. Starring our Resident Artists, with special guests Chatham Baroque (http://www.chathambaroque.org). Jasmine Muhammad (http://www.pittsburghopera.org/pages/Jasmine_Muhammad) takes the title role of the Lombard queen Rodelinda; Corrie Stallings (http://www.pittsburghopera.org/pages/Corrie_Stallings) takes the "pants role" of Bertarido; Laurel Semerdjian (http://www.pittsburghopera.org/pages/Laurel_Semerdjian) portrays the lady-in-waiting Eduige, while Phillip Gay (http://www.pittsburghopera.org/pages/Phillip_Gay) is the henchman Garibaldo. Carnegie Mellon School of Drama is once again our partner for set design, and Chatham Baroque players will lend their authentic style to the orchestral playing. Crystal Manich (http://crystalmanich.com) (Aida, 2013) directs; Baroque specialist Michael Beattie (http://www.michaelwbeattie.com) (Rinaldo, 2011) conducts.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on May 08, 2015, 08:21:09 AM
Coming in June:
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Drasko on May 14, 2015, 05:24:42 AM
Coming in June:

That is very interesting. Campra's Tancrede is singular among French Tragedie Lyrique in fact that female lead asks for dramatic mezzo, a voice rarely heard in French baroque. I never had the chance to hear it, the only existing full recording under Malgoire has been out of print for ages.   
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on June 13, 2015, 03:59:11 AM
New!  :)

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760014199585.jpg)

First opera conducted by Schneebeli I've seen.

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on June 24, 2015, 07:24:57 AM
Coming in September: Rameau's Zais, conducted by Rousset:

http://www.lestalenslyriques.com/fr/agenda/za%C3%AFs

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on June 24, 2015, 02:45:06 PM
Coming in September: Rameau's Zais, conducted by Rousset:

http://www.lestalenslyriques.com/fr/agenda/za%C3%AFs

Someone call the waaambulance, because I'm about to go "Waaah"...

Waaah. Rousset's Zaïs was played in full on the radio here in Australia last year, and I had no idea. I missed it. Waaah.

http://www.abc.net.au/classic/content/2014/08/10/4057535.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/classic/content/2014/08/10/4057535.htm)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on June 24, 2015, 08:44:08 PM
Coming in September: Rameau's Zais, conducted by Rousset:

http://www.lestalenslyriques.com/fr/agenda/za%C3%AFs

I have already preordered it. Pretty reasonable price on amazon.fr.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on September 21, 2015, 01:10:02 AM
Coming in November - Handel's Partenope. Jaroussky, Gauvin, Il Pomo d'Oro, Minasi.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on September 21, 2015, 01:15:59 AM
For everybody interested in new and coming (scroll down to the bottom of the link) baroque relases, I recommend this resource:

http://www.newolde.com
 (http://www.newolde.com)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on January 14, 2016, 10:32:57 AM
Has anyone heard this?

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on January 14, 2016, 10:59:51 AM
Has anyone heard this?
'
I have played through it once, but don't think I'm able to give a thumbs up/thumbs down yet.

Coming in November - Handel's Partenope. Jaroussky, Gauvin, Il Pomo d'Oro, Minasi.


Am listening to it now. Find it a very exciting version of one of Handels good but undeniably minor works.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on January 14, 2016, 12:36:18 PM
I have played through it once, but don't think I'm able to give a thumbs up/thumbs down yet.

Thanks for this - I'll be interested in your verdict.

As for Partenope, I've been telling myself that it's not a top-notch Handel, and that I can therefore live without it. But sooner or later, I know, I'm going to crack. And then there's the new Arminio . . . .
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on January 14, 2016, 02:27:30 PM
Thanks for this - I'll be interested in your verdict.

As for Partenope, I've been telling myself that it's not a top-notch Handel, and that I can therefore live without it. But sooner or later, I know, I'm going to crack. And then there's the new Arminio . . . .
And a new Imeneo.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on January 15, 2016, 01:33:57 AM
And a new Imeneo.

Thanks for the alert - I'd not noticed that Biondi's Imeneo is imminent.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Jo498 on January 15, 2016, 02:09:31 AM
Would you consider "Imeneo" rather top notch than "Partenope"?

I usually lack the patience for most full-length baroque opera. Of Handel's (only "real" Italian operas) I consider top notch:
Rinaldo, Rodelinda, Giulio Cesare, Alcina, Ariodante, Orlando, maybe Tamerlano. Which important ones am I missing?
(I have a few more on my shelves but not really listened to. Some time ago I was surprised to find a recording of "Lotario" a work whose existence I had not been consciously aware of in my collection...)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on January 15, 2016, 04:58:45 AM
I think you've got them about right, Ariodante being my particular favorite.

I've never heard Imeneo.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on January 15, 2016, 07:21:04 AM
Yes, I think that's the first team - though I would also make a strong case for Agrippina and Tolomeo.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on January 15, 2016, 07:52:38 AM
Yes, I think that's the first team - though I would also make a strong case for Agrippina and Tolomeo.
I would have mentioned Agrippina but I'm not sure it isn't an oratorio....?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on January 15, 2016, 08:15:57 AM
I would have mentioned Agrippina but I'm not sure it isn't an oratorio....?

Definitely an opera - first performed on 26 December 1709, at the Teatro San Giovanni Crisostomo in Venice
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Jo498 on January 15, 2016, 10:31:54 AM
I have "Imeneo" because it was in the very first Briliant Classics Handel box. Also Faramondo but I probably have not listened to either all the way through, kept them for "completeness". Also on my shelves, in addition to the 7 mentioned above: Agrippina, Teseo, Amadigi, Admeto, Flavio, Lotario. But I probably bought most of them during some binge or because they were cheap...
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: betterthanfine on January 19, 2016, 02:28:24 PM
Alright, hit me! What are Rameau's best opera's and which are the recordings to get hold of? :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on January 19, 2016, 02:58:57 PM
Alright, hit me! What are Rameau's best opera's and which are the recordings to get hold of? :)

It depends on what you're looking for in an opera.

For dramatic heft:
Hippolyte et Aricie (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Panzarella-Delunsch-Florissants/dp/B000005E4S))
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZdX37S40L.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Panzarella-Delunsch-Florissants/dp/B000005E4S)


For dramatic heft (with extra sadness):
Castor et Pollux (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Castor-Pollux-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027P8K))
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51B6VWQN3ML.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Castor-Pollux-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027P8K)


For non-stop glorious tunes:
Les fêtes d'Hébé (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie (http://www.amazon.com/Fetes-DHebe-Jean-Philippe-Rameau/dp/B008F2J3LW))
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81Yk4P%2BlNTL._SL1426_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Fetes-DHebe-Jean-Philippe-Rameau/dp/B008F2J3LW)


For spectacle (and non-stop glorious tunes):
Les Indes galantes (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027O75))
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/003/MI0001003905.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Indes-Galantes-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000027O75)


However, my favourite Rameau opera is Les Boréades. It has all of the above.

Les Boréades (English Baroque Soloists / John Eliot Gardiner (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Les-Boreades-Gardiner-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000009INY))
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51blShcX9XL.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Les-Boreades-Gardiner-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000009INY)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on January 19, 2016, 10:28:43 PM
Seems like an excellent selection. Might get some myself. :)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on January 20, 2016, 01:31:32 AM
Seems like an excellent selection. Might get some myself. :)

Q

And I can thoroughly recommend adding this to your list:

La Guirlande / Zéphyre (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-La-Guirlande-Z%C3%A9phyre-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000059QUY))
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pf%2B8AXifL.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-La-Guirlande-Z%C3%A9phyre-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000059QUY)

They're two works that are classified as actes de ballet, but they're really two miniature operas. (It's a 2-CD set, with La Guirlande on one, and Zéphyre on the other.) The stories are slight, but the music is gorgeous. And William Christie's conducting in both pieces is relaxed. (He usually has a habit of being hard-driven.)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: betterthanfine on January 20, 2016, 02:05:55 AM
Thanks a lot, Peter! Not really sure what I'm looking for in Rameau, but I've been listening to recordings by Sabine Devieilhe and Carolyn Sampson lately, and find them extremely appealing. Dramatic heft is always good, but so far it's the glorious tunes that have piqued my interest. I just realised I have that Castor & Pollux in the big Harmonia Mundi Lumières box, so I'll definitely give that one a spin today, and go for Les Fêtes d'Hébé or Les Boréades next probably.

By the way, I take it you're a Christie fan? ;)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on January 20, 2016, 06:02:01 AM
Add this amazing DVD:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QlJqTbfiL._AC_UL320_SR224,320_.jpg)

with Pauls Agnew's glorious performace as the frog princess:

(http://arthaus-musik.com/fileadmin/dvds/m1067/slides/dv-opplt-platee-plat-e3.jpg)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on January 20, 2016, 06:39:38 AM
I shall check it out - thank you. On a related topic, I believe that the DVD of the recent Glyndebourne production of Handel's Saul is coming out soon. Not strictly an opera, I know, but it was a spectacularly dramatic show.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on January 20, 2016, 04:46:01 PM
Add this amazing DVD:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QlJqTbfiL._AC_UL320_SR224,320_.jpg)

with Pauls Agnew's glorious performace as the frog princess:

(http://arthaus-musik.com/fileadmin/dvds/m1067/slides/dv-opplt-platee-plat-e3.jpg)

For an audiovisual introduction to Rameau, I'd recommend Les Indes galantes first. Paul Agnew's great performance notwithstanding, to me Platée doesn't have the instant appeal of other Rameau operas.

Les Indes galantes (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Galantes-Hartelius-Christie-Florissants/dp/B0009S4EQO)) DVD
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81a8hw1pMiL._SL1500_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Galantes-Hartelius-Christie-Florissants/dp/B0009S4EQO)

Here's some of the music from Les Indes galantes:

https://www.youtube.com/v/e2WPa-l-PmI
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on January 20, 2016, 04:53:46 PM
Thanks a lot, Peter!

No problem.

Not really sure what I'm looking for in Rameau, but I've been listening to recordings by Sabine Devieilhe and Carolyn Sampson lately, and find them extremely appealing. Dramatic heft is always good, but so far it's the glorious tunes that have piqued my interest.

For me, it's the combination of melodies and harmonies that sets Rameau apart from all other Baroque composers. The orchestration is amazing.

I just realised I have that Castor & Pollux in the big Harmonia Mundi Lumières box, so I'll definitely give that one a spin today, and go for Les Fêtes d'Hébé or Les Boréades next probably.

I don't recommend Castor et Pollux as a first stop for Rameau operas. It's not the most tuneful Rameau opera – but it does have the stunning aria, "Tristes apprêts, pâles flambeaux":

Rameau: Castor et Pollux - (Agnès Mellon [sop]; Les Arts Florissants / William Christie)
https://www.youtube.com/v/joJ37aNBdnE

I'd go with Les Indes galantes. It's an overload of glorious tunes.

By the way, I take it you're a Christie fan? ;)

I'm not much of a fan. It's just that he basically has a monopoly on recordings of Rameau operas. In Rameau, I prefer almost any other conductor, mainly because I find Christie too hard-driven most of the time. He's considered the world's foremost authority on Rameau, so I'm not in a position to say "Yes, but..."

For the record (tee hee), my favourite conductor of Rameau is Frans Brüggen. He lets the music breathe, and (to me) makes it sound like the greatest music ever written. Unfortunately, he never recorded a Rameau opera, only ever orchestral suites from the operas. Otherwise, I'd be recommending every Rameau recording by Frans Brüggen and his Orchestra of the 18th Century.

For example, get a load of this:

Rameau: Les Boréades, Acte IV - Entrée (Orchestra of the 18th Century / Frans Brüggen)
https://www.youtube.com/v/OmOXl17ibDc
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on January 21, 2016, 01:52:45 AM
I'm not much of a fan. It's just that he basically has a monopoly on recordings of Rameau operas.

I'm not sure that 'monopoly' is quite the right word any more - in recent years there have been some fine Rameau recordings from Niquet, d'Hérin, Reyne, Pichon and Rousset.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Jo498 on January 21, 2016, 02:02:04 AM
Minkowski did Hippolyte et Aricie (and at least one more) and Harnoncourt Castor & Pollux These two are the only complete ones I have but cannot claim that I know them, bought them on some binge years ago but never listened to them all through...

As far as Suites go, in addition to Brüggen's Indes Galantes I'd recommend the two-disc-set with Savall. Among the most colorful and attractive music I know.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Peter Power Pop on January 21, 2016, 03:37:59 PM
As far as Suites go, in addition to Brüggen's Indes Galantes I'd recommend the two-disc-set with Savall. Among the most colorful and attractive music I know.

Here's the album on Spotify:

Rameau: L'Orchestre de Louis XV (Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall)
https://play.spotify.com/album/1jstSqjS4CuyggOMqbvyUm (https://play.spotify.com/album/1jstSqjS4CuyggOMqbvyUm)

And here's the gang doin' their thing live:

https://www.youtube.com/v/nkvDniqFWUk
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Monsieur Croche on September 20, 2016, 05:47:30 AM
Add this amazing DVD:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QlJqTbfiL._AC_UL320_SR224,320_.jpg)

with Pauls Agnew's glorious performace as the frog princess:

(http://arthaus-musik.com/fileadmin/dvds/m1067/slides/dv-opplt-platee-plat-e3.jpg)

A stunning production and performance:  Agnew is startlingly good!  If you like / love Rameau, this is a run, don't walk non-decision... 'just do it.'  lol.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2016, 10:31:59 AM
A stunning production and performance:  Agnew is startlingly good!  If you like / love Rameau, this is a run, don't walk non-decision... 'just do it.'  lol.
Som true. Amazingly. I also saw him do, with Les Arts Florissants, the best Monteverdi madrigal performance ever last year. So different from the antics in Platee, and WHAT a singer!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on October 01, 2016, 11:23:34 AM
Did a search on this forum and found threads about French opera and threads about baroque opera, but none about French baroque opera.

Honestly, I am not an opera lover, although when I was younger I went through a Verdi phase and a bit of a Wagner and Handel phase. I just have too many other musical interests these days (organ, piano, choral, chamber, lieder, some symphonies, jazz, ethnic music), and I am generally quite uninterested in plots, characters and the like.

Anyway, I would like to explore some French baroque opera, as I really love the instrumental music of Rameau, Lully, Couperin, Grigny, et al. I think this would be enjoyable for my commute. Any suggestions (especially inexpensive ones) would be appreciated!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on October 01, 2016, 08:53:57 PM
I am giving this fascinating thread a bump.

I expect The New Erato to give wine pairings for each of the French operas discussed here. (although I will be listening mostly in my car as a way to distract from my commute through the bowels of HELL A).

I also found a Castor et Pollux performance with Gerard Souzay. Anything with him is a must have IMO.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91xrVvybZfL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on October 02, 2016, 04:55:41 AM
I expect this to be very good as well as cheap (but haven't heard it), there's an ongoing offer on Harmonia Mundi on mdt:



I remember driving thorugh the vineyards in the Loire in 2002 listening to Charpentiers Medee bought in the FNAC shop in Beaune.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on October 02, 2016, 05:04:56 AM
I expect this to be very good as well as cheap (but haven't heard it), there's an ongoing offer on Harmonia Mundi on mdt:



I remember driving thorugh the vineyards in the Loire in 2002 listening to Charpentiers Medee bought in the FNAC shop in Beaune.

Looks good!  :) Do you know if this series comes with full texts?

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on October 02, 2016, 06:57:19 AM
I don't know but I guess not. At a tenner on mdt I guess I can forgiver them....
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on October 02, 2016, 07:02:42 AM
I don't know but I guess not. At a tenner on mdt I guess I can forgiver them....

You're right: I went to Amazon to check out the fineprint on the back cover: "Liner notes in French, English, German".
So, that's commercial speak for: no libretto....

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on October 02, 2016, 07:20:03 AM
At least the story is known from Mozart.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on October 03, 2016, 12:52:16 AM
You're right: I went to Amazon to check out the fineprint on the back cover: "Liner notes in French, English, German".
So, that's commercial speak for: no libretto....

Q

I have HM's reissue of Cavalli's Giasone, and I'm sure the format for Idoménée will be the same - track listing, essay and synopsis only.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on October 03, 2016, 12:55:12 AM
Did a search on this forum and found threads about French opera and threads about baroque opera, but none about French baroque opera.

Honestly, I am not an opera lover, although when I was younger I went through a Verdi phase and a bit of a Wagner and Handel phase. I just have too many other musical interests these days (organ, piano, choral, chamber, lieder, some symphonies, jazz, ethnic music), and I am generally quite uninterested in plots, characters and the like.

Anyway, I would like to explore some French baroque opera, as I really love the instrumental music of Rameau, Lully, Couperin, Grigny, et al. I think this would be enjoyable for my commute. Any suggestions (especially inexpensive ones) would be appreciated!

My no. 1 recommendation:

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on October 03, 2016, 02:11:08 AM
My no. 1 recommendation:


I remember driving through the vineyards in the Loire in 2002 listening to Charpentiers Medee bought in the FNAC shop in Beaune.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on October 03, 2016, 04:47:14 PM
Vouvray or Chinon?
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on October 03, 2016, 08:42:20 PM
Savennieres,
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on December 10, 2016, 07:55:32 AM
Coming next month - Mondonville's Isbé, from György Vashegyi & Orfeo Orchestra & Purcell Choir
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on December 10, 2016, 09:02:34 AM
Coming next month - Mondonville's Isbé, from György Vashegyi & Orfeo Orchestra & Purcell Choir
Ow, ow, ow, me want!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on January 01, 2017, 09:27:51 AM
Seems there's no general Händel operas thread here, right? So allow me to cross-post this (from the listening thread) here - reference is made to the Christie recording (from 1999) which I had played just before:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Er64g1mKL.jpg)

Compared to Christie, I guess Joyce DiDonato is even more brilliant in the title role than Renée Fleming, the Ruggerios both sound very good (Maite Beaumont, Susan Graham), both Morganas are great (I love Natalie Dessay who sings the part with Christie - she's quite different from Karina Gauvin, who's another favourite and sings with Curtis ... Dessay being more on-the-edge, nervous, livelier), while Christie clearly has the edge on Bradamante, sung wonderfully by Kathleen Kuhlmann (who already sang the part with Hickox in what many still seem to consider the best recording of "Alcina"), while Sonia Prina applies way too much vibrato to my taste ... I guess the men are fine in both, and so are the Obertos, but Laurent Naouri (Melisso w/Christie) is maybe somewhat finer than the others ... in general, the Curtis sound amazing, warm and full (though the orchestra is pretty small, all names are given in the booklet of the full edition, same for chorus which is just the soloists plus six extras). But then, regardless, the Christie performance is more animated, more varied, more lively, I find. Hard to pick, really ... which goes for the Hickox as well, which has Arleen Augér in the title role, Della Jones as Ruggiero, and as mentioned, Kuhlmann as Bradamante. If I had to pick one today, I'd tend to go with the Christie, though the extra aria for Ruggiero that Curtis adds is a clear plus ("Bramo di trionfar", inserted as Scene 7 in Act 1).

Either way, it shall be amazing to hear Bartoli and Jaroussky (and Antonini conducting), I'm sure!


What are people's thoughts on "Alcina" here, what recording(s) do you prefer and why? And is the DVD from Aix with Petibon, Jaroussky, Prohaska et al. (Marcon, Erato) as enticing as it looks? (If it's only half as enticing, I'll have to get it.)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Jo498 on January 01, 2017, 09:32:57 AM
Hickox is more complete as far as I recall (I think Christie cuts some of the Ballet music) and Augér preferable to Fleming IMO. But Dessay is great on the Christie (I still got rid of it due to space reasons and only kept the Hickox, maybe some day when I really get into watching opera on DVD I'll get another one).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on January 01, 2017, 09:51:00 AM
Hm, Christie has a few cuts here and there, it seems (or so I read in a review online) - but mostly minor ones (ballet music, a da capo here and there).

Just comparing Curtis with Hickox now (Hickox adds that extra aria, "Bramo di trionfar", with the opening recitative at the end of disc 3 as a bonus), and it seems Curtis omits the ballet music at the end of act 2, but other than that, it's all there (can't tell about repeats or partial cuts of course ... and Hickox adds a chorus bonus, too, "Questo è il cielo de' contenti").
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on February 19, 2017, 06:13:39 AM
cross-post from the concerts thread:


Zurich Opera, 18 February 2017

MÉDÉE
Marc-Antoine Charpentier

Conductor: William Christie
Producer: Andreas Homoki
Stage design: Hartmut Meyer
Costumes: Mechthild Seipel
Light design: Franck Evin
Choreographische Beratung: Katrin Kolo
Chorus master: Jürg Hämmerli
Dramaturgy: Werner Hintze, Fabio Dietsche

Médée: Stéphanie D’Oustrac
Jason: Reinoud Van Mechelen
Créon: Nahuel Di Pierro
Créuse: Mélissa Petit
Oronte: Ivan Thirion
L’Amour, Captif de l’Amour, Premier Fantôme: Florie Valiquette
Nérine: Carmen Seibel
Arcas, Second Corinthien, La Jalousie: Spencer Lang
Un Argien, La Vengeance: Roberto Lorenzi
Une Italienne: Sandrine Droin
Premier Corinthien, Un Argien, Un Démon: Nicholas Scott
Cleone: Gemma Ni Bhriain
Deuxième Fantôme: Francisca Montiel

Harpsichord: Paolo Zanzu
Lute: Brian Feehan, Juan Sebastian Lima
Cello: Claudius Herrmann
Gamba: Martin Zeller
Violone: Dieter Lange

Orchestra La Scintilla
Chor der Oper Zürich
Members of Les Arts Florissants

Phenomenal in every respect, one of the best opera nights ever, and quite likely to be the highlight of this still young year. How amazing to witness a cast that is really at home in the language in question - not that I actually understood it word by word, but none of the minor to major diction and pronounciation and accent problems that we usually just have to accept when watching opera (and in that respect: what a huge difference to the Milan "Don Carlo"). I've become tolerant long ago about this, but what a huge different to have a fully idiomatic cast! William Christie strictly insists on this, as he mentioned during the matinee in presentation of this new production a few weeks back - the show last night was actually the final one again already - and I fully endorse this, now that I have been able to witness the wonderful results.

So many great things, it's really hard to find words.

Let's start with the play itself. What a wonderful opera, finding a perfect balance between words and music. There's no fat to it, it's just perfect. No vocal girlands, no show-offery, no nothing, just a perfect synchronisation between what is sung and how it is sung (and played). This is not a sequence of numbers with star arias and all that, but really a play. And Homoki's production and stage direction actually made it work in a way that even the Divertissements were quite perfectly integrated into the whole, sort of echo chambers of the main plot.

The choir, enlarged by an haute-contre section from Les Arts florissants, did a wonderful job (as I've come to expect by now - Zurich opera can be really proud of such a fine choir). So did La Scintilla, the HIP orchestra of Zurich opera. They were enlarged by several guests as well, mainly in the winds section, which had a lot of work to do and did just fine. Christie had a harpsichord to play and conduct from, but to his right there was another harpsichord, as well as a small organ. As I could not see much of the orchestra during the play (I could see the recorders and that was pretty cool, too), I don't know how much of the harpsichord continuo was played by Christie himself. The continuo section was really good anyway, bleding into a wonderful and varied sound, using different combinations of the instruments at hand (including the organ I mentioned).

The stage itself was set up very simple, using a second floor that could be lifted to disappear and was often lowered so it was merely a step up from the ground level. On top you would have different colours than downstairs, the lower area was also opened up to the back a few times, but mostly just to let people (or devils) appear and disappear - very effective, and very nice to look at, too. There was hardly any furniture or other stuff on the stage, which fit the unfolding tragedy perfectly well, I found.

And as the tragedy has been mentioned, it really sempt to be the tragedy of Stéphanie d'Oustrac. She was outstanding in the title role, both as a singer as well as an actress - she really became Medea. Yet at the same time it got pretty clear how much love Charpentier must have had for that character, so far beyond any moral categories mankind is used to - not to say a monster. The melodies Chapentier wrote for his Médée are truly beguiling, again and again. Van Mechelen did an outstanding job as well. Most beautiful where the - quite many - moments when they sang at a very low volume. Those pianissimo moments, a few soft harpsichord tones added ... what tension, what vibrancy! At some moments I felt as if I were watching a forbidden scene - the intimacy generated by those very quiet moments was amazing. Of course this again was made possible by the fact that d'Oustrac really filled that role perfectly well, vibrant and intense. The other roles, both larger and smaller, were all cast very well, too. What I found interesting, and it was certainly determined only in part by my own preferences, is how much this is about Medea, the monster, and how relatively little sympathy came up for Créuse (Mélissa Petit was excellent, not her fault at all!) by comparison. Créuse, at least as far as the play seems to tell us, is not the one to blame really for the events that are to unfold - yet it's Medea, the independent and strong character that captures the attention, that is front and center, albeit her doings are horrible beyond belief. This of course creates tension as well, which again is held back or counterbalanced ingeniously by Charpentier's music.

So yeah, great night at the opera!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on February 20, 2017, 08:15:40 AM
The latest Rousset / Lully, released next month:

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: ritter on March 11, 2017, 03:56:50 AM
Cross-posted from the "Purchases today" thread: 
 
Bought this curiosity today in La boite à musique in Brussels:

(http://www.forumopera.com/sites/default/files/styles/rectangle_barre_de_gauche_234px__cd-livres-breves_/public/776.jpg?itok=3uh-8HmC)

In 1952, the Paris Opéra presented for the first time in 200 years the complete (but heavily cut) Les Indes galantes. The lavish prodcution was a hit, and was performed over 250 times well into the 1960s. This recording, a radio broadcast from 1954, is almost a "who's who" of French singing of those days (Rita Gorr, Jacqueline Brumaire, Jean Giraudeau, Janine Micheau, Géori Boué, Henri Legay, Roger Bourdin). Nothing even remotely HIP here, of course; the orchestration had been "retouched" by Paul Dukas--one entrée, many years earlier--and Henri Büsser. The conductor is Louis Fourestier.

These Indes galantes inspired two of Nicolas de Staël's (who had seen the staging at the Opéra in 1953) most acclaimed painitings (both in private collections AFAIK):

(https://dg19s6hp6ufoh.cloudfront.net/pictures/612457673/large/indes1.jpeg?1418063705)  (http://philippehoubart.p.h.pic.centerblog.net/ff368cd6.jpg)
Sampling this, it has a sort of endearing charm to it. The performance is at best adequate, the orchestral textures are very thick, and there are some big ensemble problems at some points (most disturbingly, in "Forêts paisbles..."  >:(. The singers styles span the whole gamut from heroic grand opéra to the more intimate opéra comique, but always in the "grand old manner". But there's also a sense of occasion, of rediscovery, which is captivating. Tolerable sound for a 1954 broadcast (and it includes the introdcutory comments by the announcer, as weedll as some comments between numbers--which sometimes have not finished when the music restarts  ::) -- the ORTF never quite master this aspect, I'm afraid,  as I've listened to broadcasts from the 70s where it also happens).
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on March 11, 2017, 04:22:28 AM
Interesting...  Do you know if a DVD of this 1954 production exist ?  Paris opera had and still has an amazing "corps de Ballet", and in the indes galantes it must have been a "grand spectacle".
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: ritter on March 11, 2017, 08:28:36 AM
Interesting...  Do you know if a DVD of this 1954 production exist ?  Paris opera had and still has an amazing "corps de Ballet", and in the indes galantes it must have been a "grand spectacle".
Not to my knowledge, and I think it unlikely (are there any filmed opera performances from France from those years?). The choreagraphy was by several artists, Serge Lifar among them. The sets also were a team effort, apparently, with Georges Wakhévitch being the only familiar name to me. The production was by Maurice Lehmann (of whom I had never heard of until now  :-[). Here (http://fresques.ina.fr/en-scenes/fiche-media/Scenes01013/les-indes-galantes-de-rameau-mises-en-scene-par-maurice-lehmann-a-l-opera-de-paris.html) the metteur en scène speaks about the production.

A picture of the lavish sets:

(http://www.rameau2014.fr/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/sauvages-1952/56899-1-fre-FR/sauvages-1952_imagelarge.jpg)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on March 11, 2017, 08:57:59 AM
(are there any filmed opera performances from France from those years?).
Thank you Ritter.  Sometimes traveling through time is a very compelling fantasy.  As far as filmed operas, they exist, but most of the time they are not available to the public: everything that got filmed by the french TV is in the INA archives and the INA does not throw anything away.  However, making something available is the result of some editorial policy, i.e. politics and finances, two things that have been running in deep trouble lately.  Here is an example: I got interested in Tansman last opera Sabbataï Zévi, le faux messie.  I contacted Tansman daughter who certified that the INA had a copy of the original recording.  I contacted them, and they told me that they were not interested in making a public release of this work.  Maybe not Le mot de la fin, because such an editorial view comes from a director whose tenure is limited.  New director, new editorial policy... Hopes goes on....
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: ritter on March 11, 2017, 09:09:53 AM
Thank you Ritter.  Sometimes traveling through time is a very compelling fantasy.  As far as filmed operas, they exist, but most of the time they are not available to the public: everything that got filmed by the french TV is in the INA archives and the INA does not throw anything away.  However, making something available is the result of some editorial policy, i.e. politics and finances, two things that have been running in deep trouble lately.  Here is an example: I got interested in Tansman last opera Sabbataï Zévi, le faux messie.  I contacted Tansman daughter who certified that the INA had a copy of the original recording.  I contacted them, and they told me that they were not interested in making a public release of this work.  Maybe not Le mot de la fin, because such an editorial view comes from a director whose tenure is limited.  New director, new editorial policy... Hopes goes on....
L'espoir ne meurt jamais. In any event, you are lucky in France to have the INA, which preserves so much valuable material and makes a good chunk of it available to the public...  :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on April 19, 2017, 10:05:18 AM
After the wonderful Amadis de Gaule, the opera in french composed by Johann Christian Bach I had to get his Zanaida



David Stern (son of Isaac the violinist) discovered a complete score of this opera in the library of an American collector in 2010 and decided to exhume this interesting opera and record it. Compared to Amadis which is firmly classical, this leans a bit toward the baroque with Mozartian idioms.  I love the musical style of this period, where elegance was always at the forefront.



Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on May 04, 2017, 12:28:19 PM
Titon et L'aurore, Mondonville



This is an OOP cd, I acquired after some negotiations with the Rakuten seller.  This opera was supposed to represent french baroque.  I do not find it quite as interesting as Isbé released recently with modern recording techniques (reviewed in another thread).  The diction of the singers is remarquably good.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on July 17, 2017, 09:03:57 AM
Beside Zanaida (posted above), I recently listened to la Clemenza de Scipione, but in term of recorded operas of J.-C. Bach, my clear favorite is this Amadis de Gaule.  There is so much energy in it, it is a truely uplifting moment for me.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51dlM7SNPzL._SY400_.jpg)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on August 23, 2017, 12:16:26 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AwhNI%2B9oL._SY400_.jpg)

Took advantage of the Naive sales on qobuz to get this for 4€.  I had heard some exerpts of Juditha Triumphans oratorio on Magdalena Kozena Vivaldi CD with Andrea Marcon (a favorite !).  Magdalena Kozena slips inside Juditha as if it was her.  Truely magical singing.  I wish the orchestra would also be Andrea Marcon Venice baroque orchestra, but the core of the performance remains the vocal parts so the bland orchestra does not get in the way.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on September 04, 2017, 02:14:34 AM
Lucerne Festival - Luzern, KKL, 22 August 2017

Monteverdi: L’Orfeo


Krystian Adam – Orfeo
Hana Blažiková – La Musica, Euridice
Kangmin Justin Kim – Speranza
Anna Dennis – Ninfa
Lucile Richardot – Messaggiera
Francesca Boncompagni – Proserpina
Gianluca Buratto – Caronte, Plutone
Furio Zanasi – Apollo
und weitere Solisten

English Baroque Soloists
Monteverdi Choir
Sir John Eliot Gardiner – Dirigent und Regie
Elsa Rooke – Regie

I was asked to report about this over in the what opera-thread... guess it suits here better and may sink into oblivion a tiny bit slower ... can't do much better than the following, hope it'll give an impression.

This was an epiphany - nothing less than that! Terrifically sung and played, and actually acted, too, although it was a semi-staged performance with very low-profile (but wonderful and most effective) costumes and otherwise just an empty stage, on which the orchestra was set up in two groups: strings and large continuo (two lutes/chitarrones, cello, harpsichord/organ and harp) to the left, cornetts and sackbuts and again a large continuo group (two lutes/chitarrones, cello, double bass, bassoon, harpsichord/organ) to the right. Gardiner stood in front of the right group, the space in the middle, in front of and in the back of the orchestra (including the empty ranks behind the stage) were all used at various times by solo singers, choirs and horn players, the messagiera came in from the back of the hall through the aisles, the echo was placed on the second gallery right next to my seat ... and sound in the large hall was absolutely gorgeous, even from my seat up on that gallery and roughly at the height of Gardiner's.

The lack of scenery all but increased the level of intensity of the performance - it kind of boiled it down to the music itself, which is so full of emotion - hard to come to grips with that, at some moments! So the lack was actually a big plus, and in a way that I guess even minimalist modern stagings can't offer, as it really threw back everything into the music itself. The placement and movement of singers and instrumentalists was most effective I found, in no way a derision of the concept. Krystian Adam was a rather subtle but convincing Orfeo, Hana Blaziková a tender, almost frail Euridice, and in the prologue of course she accompanied herself on harp - gorgeous, needless to say!

original german write-up over here:
http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/2017/08/monteverdi-lorfeo-adam-blazikova.html
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Mahlerian on September 04, 2017, 08:24:32 AM
Thanks for the report!  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on October 03, 2017, 09:29:02 AM
Pancrace Royer, Pyrrhus

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519tCowwGAL.jpg)

Pancrace Royer is mostly known as an extravagant harpsichordist, who left us some keyboard pieces full of invention.  After spending number of years, accompanying rehearsals at the lyric opera he eventually became the director of the royal academy theater.  This exposure to lyric works led to this composition which had a limited success during his lifetime.  It is a pleasant listening, but lacks surprises.  It is a long series of recitatives with occasional instrumental breaks.  There are also a couple of short choral ensembles.  Campra is closest to his composition style.
Some of the singers do not put their accentuation on the tonic or dominant which sounds strange to my ears.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Leo K. on October 03, 2017, 10:41:59 AM
Pancrace Royer, Pyrrhus

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519tCowwGAL.jpg)

Pancrace Royer is mostly known as an extravagant harpsichordist, who left us some keyboard pieces full of invention.  After spending number of years, accompanying rehearsals at the lyric opera he eventually became the director of the royal academy theater.  This exposure to lyric works led to this composition which had a limited success during his lifetime.  It is a pleasant listening, but lacks surprises.  It is a long series of recitatives with occasional instrumental breaks.  There are also a couple of short choral ensembles.  Campra is closest to his composition style.
Some of the singers do not put their accentuation on the tonic or dominant which sounds strange to my ears.

Thank you for the heads up!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on November 16, 2017, 03:53:59 AM
Sorry if I'm late breaking the news, but these ought to be mentioned here I think:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Wbflz9zDL._SL1500_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/712V10gviPL._SL1500_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41-KFG26vrL._SY400_.jpg)

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: JCBuckley on November 16, 2017, 10:01:25 AM
Sorry if I'm late breaking the news, but these ought to be mentioned here I think:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Wbflz9zDL._SL1500_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/712V10gviPL._SL1500_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41-KFG26vrL._SY400_.jpg)

The Marais is a reissue, without the libretto, I suspect - but it's a terrific recording.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on November 17, 2017, 01:07:13 AM
The Marais is a reissue, without the libretto, I suspect - but it's a terrific recording.

Thanks, wasn't aware ... but as I don't have the original release ...
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on November 25, 2017, 12:26:43 AM
New release:


http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Jun/Lully_Armide_AP135.htm

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on December 03, 2017, 12:12:27 PM
Giving an other spin for Isbé which will almost certainly be on my bestof list for 2017



The music, from the orchestration to the clever interweaving of recitative airs and choruses make this a lovely baroque opera.  And the realisation by these Budapest orchestra & chorus is exemplary.   I love this 3 CD set.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: The new erato on December 03, 2017, 02:39:15 PM
The Marais is a reissue, without the libretto, I suspect - but it's a terrific recording.
It has the libretto.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on December 28, 2017, 03:39:44 PM
Went through these in the past days, all first and so far single listens:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/348/MI0004348137.jpg)(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/242/MI0004242446.jpg)(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/302/MI0004302121.jpg)

All of them very, very nice, I found. I have to confess though that the instrumental part of the third ("Les Fêtes de Polymnie", not announced on the front cover) is not something I love these days - I just don't seem to have access to French instrumental music of that period, other than solo music (both for viola da gamba and harpsichord), but that's not Rousset and his forces fault. I love their playing in the operas as well as in the shorter "Pygmalion". And the singers and all ... this is just glorious music and I'm happy I'm finding a way in. I've heard some bits so far, including Charpentier's "Médée" as performed last season at Zurich opera - but it still feels new and unfamiliar to me.

Related, not opera, but maybe of interest to the crowd here - Marie-Claude Chappuis who is part of the cast of two of the above sets, has this new disc out on DHM, duets with Luca Pianca on lute, and gorgeous stuff, too (I guess it's quite a bit better than Pianca's disc on alpha with Roberta Mameli - that one is a bit on the cool side, both in singing as well as production, while Chappuis on DHM is cozy and warm):

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81lASgKgFdL._SL500_.jpg)

Also gave a first spin to this one:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QjAEu4RDL._SL500_.jpg)

And again, both singing and playing are pretty outstanding, I found ... but it will likely not become a favourite opera, it's just a weird piece. The other 2017 Händel on Glossa, "Catone", is one more weird thing that is very interesting though, as it offers insights into how in those days opera often worked (it's basically a compilation of other composer's arias - many of which the cast of "Catone" had sung - into a new piece). Again, the singing is wonderful there,

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/198/MI0004198412.jpg)

Oh, and as this turns into kind of a round-up: did we mention this one, "La liberazione di Ruggiero dall'Isola di Alcina" by Francesca Caccini? Now we're talking, at Glossa's, too!

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/166/MI0004166961.jpg)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on December 29, 2017, 07:08:57 AM
Giving an other spin for Isbé which will almost certainly be on my bestof list for 2017



The music, from the orchestration to the clever interweaving of recitative airs and choruses make this a lovely baroque opera.  And the realisation by these Budapest orchestra & chorus is exemplary.   I love this 3 CD set.

Pre-ordered this over a year back ... but just finally gave it a first spin - and I agree, it's gorgeous! Too long for regular consumption (I don't like splitting up operas, but I may have to get used to that, I see several others here going one act per day or similar), but I'll try and revisit sooner, rather than later!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on December 29, 2017, 10:49:04 AM
Pre-ordered this over a year back ... but just finally gave it a first spin - and I agree, it's gorgeous! Too long for regular consumption (I don't like splitting up operas, but I may have to get used to that, I see several others here going one act per day or similar), but I'll try and revisit sooner, rather than later!
If you are short of time, just stick to act 5 which has the most musical beauties.  And of course I just cannot get out of my head the final 4 1/2 min duo between Isbe and Corridon supported by the corus Je n'aimerai que toi.  This little jewel closes the opera in the utmost quietness.  So unusual and so wonderful..
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on December 29, 2017, 02:46:04 PM
If you are short of time, just stick to act 5 which has the most musical beauties.  And of course I just cannot get out of my head the final 4 1/2 min duo between Isbe and Corridon supported by the corus Je n'aimerai que toi.  This little jewel closes the opera in the utmost quietness.  So unusual and so wonderful..

That quiet ending is indeed wonderful, yes!
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on December 30, 2017, 02:08:59 AM
Having another go at this opera:


And what an amazing opera it is..... :)

Like most Baroque operas pretty long, lasting almost 3 hours.
I know the problem described above and usually listen 1 or 2 acts in one stretch.
But I wasn't bored. Though the plot is pretty standard fare for a Baroque opera: a war between two empires, a love story with two additional love triangles...
Yet it's a very versatile piece, with different musical moods reflecting the themes of pride, war, triumph and defeat, lofty Arcadian scenes, love and deceat, and even satire, provided by a jester-like figure. I found the music really modern and innovative for early 18th c.

Some impressive singing by Roman Trekel, Dorothea Röschmann, Werner Güra et al.
But of course the real hero is René Jacobs, resurrecting this opera.

Found this a real eye opener on German Baroque opera.
A masterpiece by a composer I hardly know....

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-5202/

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forumopera.com%2Fv1%2Fcritiques%2Fcroesus-keiser.htm&sandbox=1

http://www.classical-music.com/review/keiser-1

Info about the Baroque Opera box set: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Nov13/Opera_baroque_HMX2908658.htm

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: zamyrabyrd on December 30, 2017, 02:41:38 AM
Two minutes of this is even more than I can bear. Why the H is DiDonato wearing purple paint on her face? Maybe if she stood up, there wouldn't be that cloying vibrato:

https://www.medici.tv/en/concerts/joyce-didonato-in-war-and-peace-harmony-through-music/
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: zamyrabyrd on December 30, 2017, 05:46:18 AM
More like Baroque Parody:

https://www.youtube.com/v/JeHqNWPSsgM

If the singing were a little less strident, one could listen without having to watch.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Tsaraslondon on December 30, 2017, 09:40:02 AM
I don't mind the quick vibrato, to be honest. It reminds me a little of Supervia.

Some years ago I saw DiDonato in the Aix-en-Provence production of Hercules at the Barbican in London, and thought her performance absolutely riveting, though I can imagine some might have found it a little too realistic. In context it worked superbly.

https://youtu.be/iOFHISqfwjk (https://youtu.be/iOFHISqfwjk)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: zamyrabyrd on December 30, 2017, 10:04:57 PM
I don't mind the quick vibrato, to be honest. It reminds me a little of Supervia.

Some years ago I saw DiDonato in the Aix-en-Provence production of Hercules at the Barbican in London, and thought her performance absolutely riveting, though I can imagine some might have found it a little too realistic. In context it worked superbly.

https://youtu.be/iOFHISqfwjk (https://youtu.be/iOFHISqfwjk)

There is less of the vibrato in the clip you posted, perhaps because the aria lies low most of the time. I didn't enjoy Supervia's singing, however. Right now as I type, I am listening rather than watching. Her delivery may have worked onstage but I don't think it would in an audio recording as with other skilled singers such as Joan Sutherland.
I believe the drama of the Baroque style in embedded in the music itself. Attempts to superimpose emotion over and above what's written distort the intention and the result.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on January 23, 2018, 04:23:48 PM
Dug out this version of Orfeo ed Euridice with Franco Fagioli as Orfeo and Laurence Equilbey directing the insula orchestra on period instruments



This music of Gluck is so dramatic that it becomes thrilling.  The mixing of the Viennese and Paris versions is a strange idea especially considering the cuts made.  But I enjoyed it for the score and the commited performance.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on January 27, 2018, 09:11:07 AM
This arrived yesterday.  My acquaintance with Nicola Porpora is mostly through recitals by counter-tenors who almost invariably include some arias written for Farinelli or Caffarelli, some of the most famous castras trained by Porpora



I found listening to Germanico in Germania most enjoyable thanks to a superior cast of baroque singers.  On the other hand, if you think that Porpora was a contemporary of Josef Haydn, there is not the slightest premises of the classical period in his music.  Porpora was a composer firmly anchored in the baroque era mostly concerned in developping "le beau chant".  And of course when you listen to this opera, you find that this is just perfect.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on January 27, 2018, 09:14:27 AM
This arrived yesterday.  My acquaintance with Nicola Porpora is mostly through recitals by counter-tenors who almost invariably include some arias written for Farinelli or Caffarelli, some of the most famous castras trained by Porpora



I found listening to Germanico in Germania most enjoyable thanks to a superior cast of baroque singers.  On the other hand, if you think Porpora was a contemporary of Josef Haydn, there is not the slightest premises of the classical period in his music.  Porpora was a composer firmly anchored in the baroque era mostly concerned in developping "le beau chant".  And of course when you listen to this opera, you find that this is just perfect.

Niiiiiice!  :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on January 27, 2018, 11:10:20 AM
Although he has recorded many, many discs, I had never heard the counter-tenor Max Emannuel Cencic (born in Croatia) before.  He made a very strong impression on me in the role of Germanico. His voice is sharp, capable of reaching very high notes and conveys lots of expressivity in the mezzo-soprano range.  I am thinking of getting on of his recitals CDs.  Here are the one I am thinking about



(3 CD -Vivaldi-Scarlatti-Caldara)




 
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on January 27, 2018, 11:32:38 AM
Spineur, given your liking of Porpora (haven't heard the Germanico) and Cencic, this might be right up your alley ( provide you don't already have it):



Found it an wonderful opera of surprising quality in an awesome performance. My fist encounter with Cencic (the lead is by Jaroussky). Might give some more impressions later,  or look up previous ones.  :)

Q
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: North Star on January 27, 2018, 11:34:16 AM
Although he has recorded many, many discs, I had never heard the counter-tenor Max Emannuel Cencic (born in Croatia) before.  He made a very strong impression on me in the role of Germanico. His voice is sharp, capable of reaching very high notes and conveys lots of expressivity in the mezzo-soprano range.  I am thinking of getting on of his recitals CDs.  Here are the one I am thinking about
This one with Jaroussky ought to be worth a look, too.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on January 27, 2018, 11:48:03 AM
Spineur, given your liking of Porpora (haven't heard the Germanico) and Cencic, this might be right up your alley ( provide you don't already have it):



Found it an wonderful opera of surprising quality in an awesome performance. My fist encounter with Cencic (the lead is by Jaroussky). Might give some more impressions later,  or look up previous ones.  :)

Q
I have this one.  Time to give it another spin.  Thanks Que & North Star !
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: GioCar on January 27, 2018, 10:06:31 PM
This arrived yesterday.  My acquaintance with Nicola Porpora is mostly through recitals by counter-tenors who almost invariably include some arias written for Farinelli or Caffarelli, some of the most famous castras trained by Porpora



I found listening to Germanico in Germania most enjoyable thanks to a superior cast of baroque singers.  On the other hand, if you think that Porpora was a contemporary of Josef Haydn, there is not the slightest premises of the classical period in his music.  Porpora was a composer firmly anchored in the baroque era mostly concerned in developping "le beau chant".  And of course when you listen to this opera, you find that this is just perfect.

Hi Spineur, not to be pedantic but Porpora was a contemporary of Bach, being born in 1686.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on January 27, 2018, 11:43:23 PM
Hi Spineur, not to be pedantic but Porpora was a contemporary of Bach, being born in 1686.
But he died in 1768.  A very long life for the period.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: GioCar on January 28, 2018, 01:10:11 AM
But he died in 1768.  A very long life for the period.

Yes, that's true but:

1732 Germanico in Germania
1733 Orlando
1735 Les indes galantes

1732 Haydn's birth

I wouldn't say that either Handel or Rameau (who died just 4 years before Porpora) are contemporaries of Haydn. Porpora was a baroque composer in style and time, like Handel and Rameau.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on February 10, 2018, 01:15:51 PM
I was quite curious to see how Marc-Antoine Charpentier, a deeply religious man would approach this biblical story around homosexuality.  It ends up by being a rather poignant love story, David sung by Pierre Charboneau (fantastic in the role of David) and Anita Quintas as Jonathas.
Gorgeous music, wonderfully interpreted by Les arts Florissants under William Christie.  The staging is rather undecipherable to me, but isnt obstructive in any way.  The only reason to get the DVD is for the acting. Philippe Charbonneau is a great actor and singer.  There is a CD version of this production, which is a real option considering the total neutrality of the staging.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on February 12, 2018, 11:16:01 AM
Händel, Ottone.  Great cast: Cencic, Snouffer, Kudinov, Hallenberg, Sabata Il Pomo d'Oro led by George Petrou.  I had never heard of this Händel opera before and was let to it by Germanico, also sung by Cencic.  I checked there was 3 other recording of this little known Haendel opera.  For me, the rediscovery of all this baroque repertoire is a marvelous achievement of the HIP movement.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on February 17, 2018, 07:50:26 AM
I am getting lonely in this thread.  I may have to turn the lights off....

Vivaldi: Il Farnace
Probably the best Vivaldi opera recording I have listened to so far



Max Emmanuel Cencic in the title role and a most illustrious cast around him.  Diego Fasiolis leads quite a dynamic orchestra and never lets down the pace.  Most notable: the diction.  I can hear distinctively every word here which makes the text intelligible to a non-italian who understands this beautiful language.


Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: king ubu on February 17, 2018, 09:59:40 AM
Please keep it going!

I have all those (David & Jonathas DVD, Ottone, Farnace) on my piles, but these days just don't do much opera, and even less baroque opera (live I'll be catching "La Scala di Seta" next, nothing baroque on the schedule, but also "Idomeneo" and Holliger's new "Lunea").
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on February 25, 2018, 03:27:07 AM
Monteverdi: Il rittorno d'Ulisse in Patria
Because of the incomplete nature of the score that made it to us, the available recording are noticably different, as there is a wide lattitude in the interpretation of the work.  There are at least 4 recordings that I know.  My favorite is probably René Jacobs, which is the one I chose for my sunday listen

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61BhleeyEoL.jpg)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on February 25, 2018, 03:31:14 AM
Monteverdi: Il rittorno d'Ulisse in Patria
Because of the incomplete nature of the score that made it to us, the available recording are noticably different, as there is a wide lattitude in the interpretation of the work.  There are at least 4 recordings that I know.  My favorite is probably René Jacobs, which is the one I chose for my sunday listen

Do you like Jacobs in Monteverdi better than Garrido?  :)

Q

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Spineur on February 25, 2018, 04:01:22 AM
Do you like Jacobs in Monteverdi better than Garrido?  :)

Q
Generally speaking yes.  Garrido sound is lush and exotic (to my ears).  It suits L’Incoronazione di Poppea best.  But Ulysse is a rough and shrewd character and Jacobs capture this side of Ulisse well.  Also Jacobs chose for the missing part of the score music from other Monteverdi works that blend very well with the work.

Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Que on February 25, 2018, 01:14:58 PM
Generally speaking yes.  Garrido sound is lush and exotic (to my ears).  It suits L’Incoronazione di Poppea best.  But Ulysse is a rough and shrewd character and Jacobs capture this side of Ulisse well.  Also Jacobs chose for the missing part of the score music from other Monteverdi works that blend very well with the work.

Thanks, much appreciated!  :)
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: Biffo on March 07, 2018, 03:43:16 AM
Just finished listening to Cavalli's La Calisto in a performance by Rene Jacobs and Concerto Vocale. I have mixed feelings about it. It took three sessions although I enjoyed Acts II & III a lot more. Possibly the unsympathetic nature of most of the characters had something to do with it. I found Act I heavy going at times though the rest contains some ravishing music.
Title: Re: ~ Baroque Opera ~
Post by: knight66 on April 16, 2018, 04:53:05 AM
Enfers: Stephane Degout, Pygmalion, cond Raphael Pichon.

This is a concept album with a difference. And it does belong under both opera and vocal categories. The opera consists of arias and choruses by Gluck and Rameau, Phedre, Pluton etc, interspersed with movements of a recently discovered requiem mass. This creates an overall mass sequence described as sacred and profain. The music is divided into Introit, Kyrie etc. The latin mass elements were created anonymously in the 18th cent; appropriating the music from Rameau’s Castor and Pollux. Close to the start a suitably sepulchral mood is achieved via a very fierce performance of Rebel’s Chaos. That is the only piece by other than the two composers previously mentioned.

Degout carries the bulk of the solo work, a handful of other singers take relatively minor roles.

Now all of that reads as though this was either heavy going academic work or a gimmick. Bt it works superbly. The whole disc hangs together terrifically well. It is a long way from an album of miscellaneous arias or of Baroque pieces. The drama of the arias drives the sequence forward and the mass proper contains beautiful and of course high quality music. It feels like the performance of one piece of music. Everything works superbly, soloist, orchestra and choir. There is a detailed booklet on the music and the ideas prompting the disc. It would make a terrific concert, luckily, we can however hear it at home.

Mike