Topic: Suggestion reguarding Giulio Cesare.

[Josquin des Prez]

Can anyone recommend a version of Handel's Giulio Cesare that meets the following criteria?:

1) That all characters are casted accordingly (I.E., no female sopranos for male roles. Who though this up, exactly? I had to ditch Rene Jacobs version, as fine as it was, just because i couldn't stand the idea).

2) Be period instruments.

3) Outstanding performance and sonics (duh).

4) Singers actually know how to sing in Italian.

Thanks.

[bricon]

1) That all characters are casted accordingly

Don't you mean castrated accordingly?

[bricon]

Edit

[Josquin des Prez]

Ha yes, the castrati, is this why they do it? Does anybody even know what a castrated singer sounds like? I can't even begin to fathom how ridiculous it must look to have women play male roles on stage.

[bricon]

Ha yes, the castrati, is this why they do it? Does anybody even know what a castrated singer sounds like?

Recordings exist for only one castrato, Alessandro Moreschi, a singer from the Sistine Chapel from the latter part of the 19th century. His recordings were made in 1902, when he was in his 40s and his voice was (by then) way past its prime. It must be stressed that Moreschi was a “church” singer, not an opera singer – his style would have been VERY different to that which would have been required to sing the Handel operatic repertoire.

Here’s a link to a recording of Moreschi singing from 1902.

I can't even begin to fathom how ridiculous it must look to have women play male roles on stage.

“Trouser” roles are VERY common in opera; composers from Mozart to Strauss have written some very famous pieces for such situations. It’s really just a matter of being able to suspend disbelief; if you can cope with a dramatic situation where a 150 Kg tenor is portraying the role of a starving student, or a “matronly” soprano is playing a teenaged girl; then a woman dressed as a man shouldn’t present too much of a dramatic difficulty.

[Que]

Can anyone recommend a version of Handel's Giulio Cesare that meets the following criteria?:

1) That all characters are casted accordingly (I.E., no female sopranos for male roles. Who though this up, exactly? I had to ditch Rene Jacobs version, as fine as it was, just because i couldn't stand the idea).

Ditching the recording by Jacobs for such a reason is unbelievable.
Since there is no recording that matches your criteria, I guess I'll have to do without.  
BTW that would apply to most Italian baroque operas.

Q

[erato]

If you have problems with females singing roles written for male castrati, you have two options IMHO:

1. Find another interst area than baroque opera

2. Work with your obvious hangups about women prtending to be men.

Sorry, but there you are.

[Wendell_E]

Can anyone recommend a version of Handel's Giulio Cesare that meets the following criteria?:

1) That all characters are casted accordingly (I.E., no female sopranos for male roles. Who though this up, exactly? I had to ditch Rene Jacobs version, as fine as it was, just because i couldn't stand the idea).

In the original production of Giulio Cesare, the role of Sesto was sung by one Margherita Durastanti.  Obviously Handel didn't know what he was doing, and modern productions that cast a countertenor in the role are more HIP than Handel himself was.   

Ha yes, the castrati, is this why they do it? Does anybody even know what a castrated singer sounds like? I can't even begin to fathom how ridiculous it must look to have women play male roles on stage.

I think one of the great things about recordings is that looks aren't really a consideration.  Imagine they look however you like (also works with Pavarotti recordings).  On the Glydebourne DVD, I find Sarah Connolly and Andrea Kirchschlager make fairly convincing males.

I imagine some folks in Handel's time said "I can't even begin to fathom how ridiculous it must sound to have high-voiced eunuchs play heroic male roles on stage."

In any case, I wish I could help you find a recording that meets your standards (Jacobs meets my standards, so I've quit looking).  I know a guy at another board who's a huge Handel freak and probably has every recording of Cesare that's ever been issued.  I'll make a post there and see if he answers.

Edit: It just occurred to me:  Are countertenors OK by you, or do you want the male roles transposed and sung by actual tenors/baritones/basses, like Richter's DG version?  I don't think any modern period-instrument performance would use those "normal" male voices.

[Larry Rinkel]

Can anyone recommend a version of Handel's Giulio Cesare that meets the following criteria?:

1) That all characters are casted accordingly (I.E., no female sopranos for male roles. Who though this up, exactly? I had to ditch Rene Jacobs version, as fine as it was, just because i couldn't stand the idea).

2) Be period instruments.

3) Outstanding performance and sonics (duh).

4) Singers actually know how to sing in Italian.

Thanks.

Then you've given up the best version, and you won't find any others meeting your criteria. It's not just a matter of dramatic illusion; the concern is also vocal register. Handel conceived these parts for sopranos, and having baritones or basses rumble along in their manly transpositions (as Fischer-Dieskau and Norman Treigle did when playing Caesar in the older days) completely distorts and muddies the textures Handel conceived. Since we're not likely ever to hear castrati live, female voices are the only suitable substitute.

[Tancata]

In the original production of Giulio Cesare, the role of Sesto was sung by one Margherita Durastanti.  Obviously Handel didn't know what he was doing, and modern productions that cast a countertenor in the role are more HIP than Handel himself was.   

Yes, it's important to remember that Sesto was originally sung by a woman in trousers, so I'm not sure what the problem is here.

That said, there is an excellent 1999 live version from the Met where David Daniels does extremely well even at that high vocal pitch (you can get it at Opera Share among other places). 

"Unfortunately", Jennifer Larmore is singing Cesare so that one is out too. Recording quality isn't top-tier either (it's a radio broadcast).

[Larry Rinkel]

That said, there is an excellent 1999 live version from the Met where David Daniels does extremely well even at that high vocal pitch (you can get it at Opera Share among other places). 

Quite true - I completely forget about the countertenors.

[Que]

In the original production of Giulio Cesare, the role of Sesto was sung by one Margherita Durastanti.  Obviously Handel didn't know what he was doing,

 

This gets better and better!

and modern productions that cast a countertenor in the role are more HIP than Handel himself was.   

Completely wrong is more like it!

Q

[Josquin des Prez]

Schopenhauer was right. Opera truly is a filthy mistake. And to think i approached the genre with the best intentions. Never mind then, no Handel for me i guess.

[Wendell_E]

Schopenhauer was right. Opera truly is a filthy mistake. And to think i approached the genre with the best intentions. Never mind then, no Handel for me i guess.

 

Surrender!  Resistance is futile!

[Anne]

You can enjoy a lot of opera without Handel.  I have been listening for 10 years and am just beginning now to enjoy Handel and Gluck; so avoid them.  Perhaps we could list the operas of non-baroque composers with trouser roles and you could avoid those.

Here are some:
Le Nozzi di Figaro (am so sad to list this one.  It is arguably the best opera ever written (Mozart - this one is from the Classical period)
Der Rosenkavalier (Richard Strauss - not the same as Johann Straus - Romantic period)
Un Ballo in Mascera - (Verdi - Romantic period)
Can't think of any others at the moment.  Just don't turn away from opera in general because of a few trouser roles.  There are far more operas without trouser roles than with.

[Larry Rinkel]

You can enjoy a lot of opera without Handel.  I have been listening for 10 years and am just beginning now to enjoy Handel and Gluck; so avoid them.  Perhaps we could list the operas of non-baroque composers with trouser roles and you could avoid those.

Here are some: (from the Romantic period)
Le Nozzi di Figaro (am so sad to list this one.  It is arguably the best opera ever written (Mozart - this one is from the Classical period)
Der Rosenkavalier (Richard Strauss - not the same as Johann Straus)
Un Ballo in Mascera - Verdi
Can't think of any others at the moment.  Just don't turn away from opera in general because of a few trouser rolls.  There are far more operas without trouser rolls than with.

Quite right. I'm sure you'll find operas where people take off their pants.

[Anne]

Quite right. I'm sure you'll find operas where people take off their pants.

Larry,

I was just correcting some errors in my original post when you already quoted me.  Sorry about the errors.

[Kullervo]

Surrender!  Resistance is futile!

I didn't know the Borg were opera fans.

[Anne]

Quite right. I'm sure you'll find operas where people take off their pants.

LOL

[Tsaraslondon]

Ha yes, the castrati, is this why they do it? Does anybody even know what a castrated singer sounds like? I can't even begin to fathom how ridiculous it must look to have women play male roles on stage.

What? Even those male roles that were written for female singers, like Cherubino in Le Nozze di Figaro, Octavian in Der Rosenkavalier, Orlovsky in Die Fledermaus?  And, now that I come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there are some male Handel roles that were written for female singers.