Author Topic: Stockhausen's Spaceship  (Read 344293 times)

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Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #340 on: July 28, 2011, 12:24:01 PM »
Trans, usw 1973

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/WxKTjAWQH9s" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/WxKTjAWQH9s</a>

Life's a bit frantic at the moment and I've only been able to dip into this, but WOW! Bloody amazing piece of film. I'm clearing the decks for an uninterrupted viewing on Saturday, and as I don't speak German, I'll probably have a list of queries to bother you with.

First question, though: what is the opening orchestral work? For a few seconds, I thought it was a chaotic rehearsal of Trans, but obviously it isn't.  Is it Hymnen Region 3 with Orchestra

(Sorry if it becomes obvious later in the film; as I said, I've not been able to watch the whole clip.)

Thanks again for posting.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #341 on: July 28, 2011, 03:05:57 PM »
//p
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Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #342 on: July 28, 2011, 10:03:01 PM »

Offline Brewski

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #343 on: July 29, 2011, 07:10:39 AM »
There's a guy called "NewMusicXX" on YouTube who regularly uploads many fascinating pieces (I subscribe to his feed so I know when he's posted something) and yesterday he put up the complete electronic version of Kontakte, here:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vjofqA2SNY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-vjofqA2SNY</a>

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Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #344 on: July 29, 2011, 01:55:00 PM »
There's a guy called "NewMusicXX" on YouTube who regularly uploads many fascinating pieces (I subscribe to his feed so I know when he's posted something) and yesterday he put up the complete electronic version of Kontakte, here:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/-vjofqA2SNY" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/-vjofqA2SNY</a>

--Bruce

Excellent. I've got Kontakte on DG vinyl and love it. I've yet to hear a recording of Kontakte with piano and percussion that doesn't annoy me; the extraordinary textures and imagination of the electronic music are diluted and confused by the live instrumentalists IMHO.

Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #345 on: July 29, 2011, 02:19:21 PM »
I prefer the version w/ piano & percussion myself .. just adds more to it. The recording of it on Stockhausen's label is good stuff.



I haven't heard that one; on the one recording I actually own, the electronic music is a fuzzy, distant background to the instrumentalists.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 03:10:06 AM by MDL »

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #346 on: July 29, 2011, 03:07:25 PM »
I prefer the version w/ piano & percussion myself .. just adds more to it. The recording of it on Stockhausen's label is good stuff.



Same here. The tape-only version sounds disconnected in parts, which is a bit disconcerting. The instruments just give it a continuity and play with textures that the solo tape can't achieve.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #347 on: July 29, 2011, 03:12:04 PM »
I haven't heard that one; on the one recording I actually own, the electronic music is a fuzzy, distant background to the instrumentalists.



I also have that one :). Having been exposed to Kontakte through it almost 20 years ago is probably the reason why I prefer the tape + instrumentalists version.
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Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #348 on: July 30, 2011, 03:57:55 AM »
I'm listening to the 'pure' version myself right now at a high volume over loudspeakers .. love it .. considering what he had to work with back then it's just mindblowing how he got this result and how contemporary it sounds. But then again he never just 'played' with the technology .. he plumbed the depths of it to it's absolute limits.



As someone (Griffiths?) once pointed out, the very fact that each sound had be built up laboriously from scratch explains to some extent why Kontakte's sound world is so rich and microscopically detailed. Stockhausen couldn't just press a button, go parpbleephonk and think, "Hmm, yeah, that'll do."
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 02:49:25 AM by MDL »

Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #349 on: July 30, 2011, 06:03:46 AM »
Gesang des Junglinge is interesting for a couple of minutes but even 13 minutes of it is too long. Kontakte is a compendium of outdated sounds from the fifties, composed from outdated technology.


Gesang, too long?! There isn't one single second in the entire piece that is boring or redundant.

And for much of its duration, Kontakte contains some of the finest, most inventive electronic music I've ever heard.

Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #350 on: July 30, 2011, 07:31:32 AM »
Absolutely ,, just finished listening to Gesang .. everythings really starts there, synthesized sounds ..  music that moves structurally around the public .. , and the use of the boys voice was a stroke of genius .. gives the work a spiritual dimension/meaning .. using it and composing those choirs of an extraordinary polyphonic character, recorded with tape loops .. these unheard-of melodies and intervals that are still today, unique. And it's all unified/made up into one scale in perfect harmony so what could have been a disaster in the hands of a lesser composer, is actually a work that is alive, vivid and magical. It opened a new door, quite an achievement for a young man in his 20s.

I've heard Gesang "live" (as it were) several times, and being surrounded and engulfed by the swirling vocals and clattering electronic sounds is a pretty magical experience. Any doubts about the antiquated electronics are swept away by the power, beauty and inventiveness of Stockhausen's imagination. In both the quality of its music and the sheer technical skill Stockhausen displayed by creating music on such primitive, cobbled-together kit, Gesang is a staggering achievement.

Offline CRCulver

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #351 on: August 05, 2011, 06:07:49 AM »
As a matter of fact Stravinsky was jerked off of neo-classicism by Webern, to whom he was introduced by Robert Craft and nowhere - I mean nowhere - has Carter ever indicated Stockhausen was an influence in his move to atonality. Besides, Stockhausen's main role at the time when Carter was evolving away from neo-classicism was his role in the development of Integral Serialism (ie, the synthesis of Webern and of Messiaen's Modes de Valeur et d'Intensite) and Carter never got into twelve-one composition of any sort.

Not to mention that Stockhausen's influence on electronica is greatly exaggerated. Key IDM artists didn't hear Stockhausen's music until after they had established their style, and their reaction to it was generally negative.

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #352 on: August 06, 2011, 06:43:55 PM »
your claim does not jive with what I've learned from books about and by Carter.  In looking back through the book that compiles most of Carter's writings, which comprise quite a bit over several decades, there is nothing about Stockhausen

Same here--Carter acknowledges the influence of Ives, Stravinsky, Schoenberg and Varèse; he also acknowledges his indebtedness to Nadia Boulanger as a teacher.
//p
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snyprrr

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #353 on: August 06, 2011, 09:21:01 PM »
haha, More Helikopter!, haha,...

where can I get the t-shirt? ;) ;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 11:59:59 AM by snyprrr »

Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #354 on: August 07, 2011, 05:49:21 AM »
Who is Maconie and what is his program?  If it is Stuart Maconie, then I will take the information with a grain of salt, but still interested in where he got it.

Robin Maconie, a NZ musicologist famed for his detailed coverage of Stockhausen in his The Works of Stockhausen from the early 1970s--a book I heartily recommend, more recently republished as Other planets and revised to include updates through Licht.

I think James has read too much into Maconie's words in the summary for the radio broadcast. There is a fleeting reference to Gruppen in the literature when Maconie establishes the parallel between Stockhausen and Carter as two composers that were interested in simultaneous use of different tempi in music. However, Carter's use of it predates Stockhausen's, as evidenced by his String Quartet of 1951 and an article about rhythm from 1955. If anything, the influence would have been the other way around.
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Offline petrarch

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #355 on: August 07, 2011, 03:21:22 PM »
It is mad and even faintly mendacious to suggest otherwise - just as it is mad to claim Stockhausen as an influence on Stravinsky and Carter, against all evidence.

Even though the influence on Carter is a stretch, the influence on (late) Stravinsky isn't--it is quite well documented.
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Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #356 on: August 12, 2011, 10:01:12 AM »

I ordered the Eötvös recording of Gruppen and Punkte, and it will be waiting for me when I arrive in Chicago in a few days.

I've now listened to Gruppen a few times, in this Eötvös performance. It's a lot clearer than what I remember from the Abbado, and I'm certainly enjoying it more this time around.

So far a success. I'll go on to Punkte later.
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Offline MDL

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #357 on: August 12, 2011, 10:33:02 AM »
I've now listened to Gruppen a few times, in this Eötvös performance. It's a lot clearer than what I remember from the Abbado, and I'm certainly enjoying it more this time around.

So far a success. I'll go on to Punkte later.

The recorded balances in Abbado's DG recording are strange and the detail doesn't come through too clearly  Eötvös is much better. But try to get your hands on the DG/Verlag composer-conducted recording. It really is special, and it come coupled with Carre, which is astounding.

snyprrr

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #358 on: August 13, 2011, 06:28:37 AM »
Yes, it is true Eotvos is sharper than Abbado but Abbado's tone is so refined it makes Gruppen sound like a classic - on a par with Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert et alii.

Everyone's saying how 'off' Abbado is, but, hey,... you're right, if one didn't know better, how is one to tell how 'bad' he is? It sounds just fine to me. I did compare with the Eotvos, on YouTube, and, aside from the computer speakers' limitations, I thought the Abbado came off alright,... yea, and the sound is DG quality.

anyway...

Offline Cato

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Re: Stockhausen's Spaceship
« Reply #359 on: August 24, 2011, 04:53:48 PM »
Live Review: Taka Kigawa at (Le) Poisson Rouge, NYC (8/22)
By Jake Cohen on August 23rd, 2011 in Concert Reviews

He opened his program with Stockhausen’s Klavierstück X, a work filled with constant tone clusters and glissandi, featuring perhaps more virtuosic modernist fireworks than the Boulez. Kigawa took an entirely novel and whimsical approach to playing this work, donning fingerless fleece gloves to aid in the glissandi and clusters. ]

Would they not therefore be called "Mittens" ?   $:)

Or does the writer mean that the "fingerless fleece gloves" were actually covers for only the palms of the hands?
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