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powerful Pierre
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« on: November 28, 2006, 11:37:44 PM » |
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What are your thoughts on these works under Klemperer. Is he a bit dated or does he still have marvels to reveal to us.
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david johnson
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 12:31:39 AM » |
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he's fine. 'dated' would be the hip guys.  dj |
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dirkronk
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 12:34:28 AM » |
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Dated? Only if you've come to Beethoven via HIP performance practice and believe it to be gospel. You won't get the faster speeds from Klemperer...often just the opposite. What you WILL get is Klempie's own view, which involves not only (often but not always) slow tempi but a very powerful exposition of structure, among other things.
For me, sometimes this IS marvelous, as in both his mono and stereo Eroicas and in his live 9th on Testament.
Sometimes it is frustrating, as in his famous molasses-slow 6th, which I've listened to for over 25 years in an attempt to hear the magic that others claim to hear. Beautifully and lovingly rendered? Sure. But it galumphs in places where I think it should flow and/or dance.
And sometimes it simply does nothing at all for me, which is why I don't bother keeping many of his stereo LvB performances. I DO keep the mono 3, 5 & 7, the stereo 1, 3 & 6, and that live 9th (the one made with the same forces as his studio stereo version, not a separate 9th that Testament has also issued).
Your reaction may be decidedly different, of course. Certainly you should give a listen for yourself. Check local libraries...they may well have Klemperer's LvB stereo set, which is considered a classic by many, even if I'm less than enthusiastic about all the renderings.
Cheers,
Dirk
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~George
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 01:27:15 AM » |
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What are your thoughts on these works under Klemperer. Is he a bit dated or does he still have marvels to reveal to us.
I suggest changing the title of your original post to include "Klemperer," that way, if other people search for this topic later, it will be more easily accessed. |
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"Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child or drags you down like a stone to consume you till you choose to let this go. Choose to, let this go." -Tool
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jwinter
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 03:16:34 AM » |
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For a massive, dark, grand interpretation of the Eroica, there's no one better than Klemperer IMO. I tend to prefer the stereo, but the mono is excellent as well. And I agree with Dirk on the Testament 9th, it's truly otustanding (there's an EMI DVD which is also nice if you want to see him in action). I also particularly enjoy his 6th.
I think his cycle is well worth picking up if you enjoy old-style Beethoven -- the current set includes the PCs with Barenboim, and is a fine bargain...
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The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.
-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
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Iconito
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 03:51:15 AM » |
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Dated? Only if you've come to Beethoven via HIP performance practice and believe it to be gospel.
OK, I'll ask (But you don't laugh!) What is a "HIP" performance supposed to be?  |
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“It’s your language. I’m just trying to use it.” –Victor Borge
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Daverz
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 04:01:02 AM » |
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We're talkin' art here; it doesn't have a sell-by date. In addition to the Klemperer mono Eroica, another very, very different Eroica I'd recommend from around that time is the Scherchen. |
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Harry
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2006, 04:03:53 AM » |
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From your lips darts loveliness, flowers from your face,
Love fires from both your eyes, your hands shoot music's grace,
With your looks you rob their sight, their ears you stop with song,
Poor men! Pursued from every side, the hunt will not last long.
*******
"SONIC STEAMROLLER BY CHOICE"
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Harry
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2006, 04:05:32 AM » |
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Historical informed performance.
HIP
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From your lips darts loveliness, flowers from your face,
Love fires from both your eyes, your hands shoot music's grace,
With your looks you rob their sight, their ears you stop with song,
Poor men! Pursued from every side, the hunt will not last long.
*******
"SONIC STEAMROLLER BY CHOICE"
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Simongodders
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2006, 04:07:10 AM » |
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OK, I'll ask (But you don't laugh!) What is a "HIP" performance supposed to be? HIP? It's like, really cool dude, that Klemperer was a laid back cat..... Sorry, being silly HIP = Historically Informed Practice. Fast and light, generally speaking... |
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Because it's there....
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Iconito
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 04:29:43 AM » |
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Alright… So, “HIP” means “Historically Informed Performance”… Or perhaps “Practice”… In any case, dirkronk’s “HIP performance practice” was one hell of a redundancy ¿Right?  Thank you very much for the answers! (I tell you: I don’t envy English-speakers at all when it comes to remember those thousands of acronyms they use all the time… It seems they really hate to type…. LOL  ) |
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“It’s your language. I’m just trying to use it.” –Victor Borge
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dirkronk
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 05:20:38 AM » |
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Alright… So, “HIP” means “Historically Informed Performance”… Or perhaps “Practice”… In any case, dirkronk’s “HIP performance practice” was one hell of a redundancy ¿Right? Right. And I should be ashamed of myself, since I'm forever correcting people who say "Rio Grande River" and similar things.  Of course, I wonder what the "proper" way of rephrasing my comment would be: HIP practice? HIP style? Dirk |
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Iconito
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 05:45:28 AM » |
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I wonder what the "proper" way of rephrasing my comment would be: HIP practice? HIP style?
Perhaps something like «….. Only if you've come to Beethoven via “Historically informed” performances…..»? Just say NO to acronyms!!! |
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“It’s your language. I’m just trying to use it.” –Victor Borge
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Wanderer
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2006, 06:09:21 AM » |
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Just say NO to acronyms!!! J.S.N.T.A. sounds like a very good idea for an association. Also, all these name-butcheries of the Klempie-Shosta-Mendy variety ought to be outlawed. |
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Now, doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, in most cases he just passes quietly away and doesn't know anything about it until the next morning?
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Don
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2006, 06:17:14 AM » |
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HIP? It's like, really cool dude, that Klemperer was a laid back cat..... Sorry, being silly HIP = Historically Informed Practice. Fast and light, generally speaking... It's "Performance", not Practice, and "fast and light" does not describe HIP. |
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