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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2007, 03:59:22 PM » |
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Well, but it had the arrangements of the Schubert German Dances and the Bach Ricercar a 6, didn't it?
Well, yes, and upon inspection, those are the only two WoO. Again, I haven't heard this set, only the latter one. |
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Chi più sa, meno crede
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Catison
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2007, 12:27:53 AM » |
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If you go to www.antonwebern.com, you'll find a lot of free music to download (from the Sony Boulez). |
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-Brett  |
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jochanaan
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2007, 03:52:47 AM » |
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*puts on the Sinopoli/Staatskapelle Dresden set and listens in awe* "Greatest"? Well, since we still haven't successfully defined that term, I don't think we can answer that.  But Webern is certainly great. Still, as essential and gorgeous as Webern's music is, we should remember that he stands on Schoenberg's shoulders. |
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Imagination + discipline = creativity.
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g r e g
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« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2007, 05:47:24 AM » |
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He's one of my favorites, though definetely not my very favorite.
Influential, though, probably just as much as Schoenberg or Stravinsky since so many composers have used pointillism in some way (and he was the first one to develop the style).
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James
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« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2007, 08:57:40 AM » |
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love webern, he was absolutely a true genius who was way ahead of his time, i love the brevity and concentration of his work, the harmonic and melodic language....out of schoenberg's pupils he made the most profound and fluent use of the serial technique, it's intellectually engaging and deeply expressive at the same time and not to mention highly original. his op. 21 is one of the most profound pieces of harmonic writing ever to exist imo. also, he was for many of the prominent composers of the darmstadt school (i.e. boulez, stockhausen, ligeti, nono, berio etc) like a 'god'...so very influencial too...
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The aim of music is not to express feelings but to express music. It is not a vessel into which the composer distills his soul drop by drop, but a labyrinth with no beginning and no end, full of new paths to discover, where mystery remains eternal. - Pierre Boulez
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The Six
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« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2007, 11:44:05 AM » |
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Someone make the argument that Messiaen is the 20th century's greatest, please.
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Bunnyears
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« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2007, 11:57:19 AM » |
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I wouldn't consider Webern at the level of Stravinsky, Schönberg, Bartok or Debussy. All these composers were more diversified and to me with a much greater creative dimension.But Webern is, no doubt, one of the composers I would put immediately after those four, with Berg, Hindemith, Prokofiev, Ravel, Enescu, Frank Martin and some others. I love above all his music for string quartet: the opus 5, 9 and 28, very pure but also very expressive, with the power of the silence, the art of the allusion. His works for orchestra, like the opus 6 or 21, although never far from the expressionism, have a purity of colours, even an elegance, that seem very fresh when we compare them to Strauss, Mahler or Shostakovitch. The purity of crystal, but always human, with a strange poetry. And some of his Choral Works, like the two Cantatas or Augenlicht are on the top of Choral music in the 20th century. The only part of Webern's production I cannot like are the Lieder. He seems to compose with total indifference for the text. So, why chose an extraordinary poet like Trakl? Why not chose only sounds with no words, no meaning? This said, after listening to works like Heldenleben or Shostakovitch's 7th, hearing Webern's Symphony opus 21 it is like to feel fresh and pure water, after being submerged in a swamp.  Not to mention Shostakovich! |
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MahlerTitan
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« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2007, 09:33:50 PM » |
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the greatest genius is DSCH, because he is the greatest.
and yes, shut the f--k up, i like my reasoning circular....
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Sapere Aude
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Larry Rinkel
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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2007, 12:47:52 AM » |
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Someone make the argument that Messiaen is the 20th century's greatest, please.
Someone hand me a barf bag . . . . |
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donwyn
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2007, 03:53:29 AM » |
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If not the greatest Webern certainly gets my vote as one of the greatest.
I wish I could say it was love at first listen for me but I'm grateful the blinders eventually lifted and I could see him for the talent he is.
His decision to give up composing rather than emigrate from Nazi Germany ranks as one of the more compelling "What If's" of the 20th c. What compositional roads would he have gone down? Anything large-scale? Seems he was the only one of the 'Schoenberg school' who didn't embrace opera. Even Zemlinsky got in on the act. If there were innovations to be had to make opera compatible with his style I'm sure Webern would've found them.
I'm also fond of his hodge-podge use of unique instrumental combinations in his chamber works. Voice, guitar, saxophone...makes for very colorful works. I'd love to have heard what he'd have accomplished given time to develope this further.
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Traffic jams...we must be doing something right.
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James
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« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2007, 11:31:13 AM » |
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It's hard to reduce it to one figure for the 20th, but composers like Stravinsky, the 3 Viennesse (Schoenberg, Berg & Webern) and Bartok are pretty much the greatest or the great. All so liberating....
Messiaen is up there too, without a doubt.
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The aim of music is not to express feelings but to express music. It is not a vessel into which the composer distills his soul drop by drop, but a labyrinth with no beginning and no end, full of new paths to discover, where mystery remains eternal. - Pierre Boulez
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Larry Rinkel
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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2007, 12:07:27 PM » |
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Messiaen is up there too, without a doubt.
I have no doubts that he's not up there. |
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jochanaan
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« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2007, 02:30:07 AM » |
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I have no doubts that he's not up there.
A challenge, Larry: Just exactly why is Messiaen such a "barf-bag," to use your words?  (Start a new thread if you want, since this is a Webern thread.) |
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Imagination + discipline = creativity.
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Larry Rinkel
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« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2007, 05:51:41 AM » |
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A challenge, Larry: Just exactly why is Messiaen such a "barf-bag," to use your words? (Start a new thread if you want, since this is a Webern thread.) I did not say Messiaen is a barf-bag. I simply asked for a barf-bag when his name was brought up. There is a difference. |
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D Minor
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« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2007, 05:54:48 AM » |
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I did not say Messiaen is a barf-bag. I simply asked for a barf-bag when his name was brought up. There is a difference.
LOL |
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