|
Godzillaviolist
Guest
|
 |
« on: December 19, 2005, 02:00:53 PM » |
|
There are often arguments here about whether Mahler's Das Lied Von Der Erde is a Song Cycle or a Symphony. Your take?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Calaf
Guest
|
 |
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2005, 02:53:50 PM » |
|
That's a very good question. Mahler himself wasn't sure. In the end he called it Das Lied von der Erde because he felt it formed a cycle of songs. He didn't call it Lieder (Songs), but Song. A 6-movement work in one piece. The Lieder (Rückert, Gesellen or Kindertoten) have all been sung in extracts as well as in whole. I've never heard any 'extract' from Das Lied. The orchestral part is as big (in the forces involved) as in his symphonies. A hybrid work ?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
M forever
Guest
|
|
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2005, 03:04:29 PM » |
|
MAHLER, Gustav. Das Lied von der Erde. Eine Symphonie für eine Tenor- und eine Alt- (oder Bariton-) Stimme und Orchester (nach Hans Bethges "Die chinesische Flöte") ... Partitur. Vienna/ Leipzig, Universal-Edition (1912).
Next question, please.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
D Minor
|
|
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2005, 03:16:40 PM » |
|
Das Lied is perhaps the first composition to totally integrate the song cycle and the symphony. It is a song cycle and a symphony in equal measure.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Petor23
|
|
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2005, 03:45:01 PM » |
|
It's a song-symphony  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I have words for everything that can be expressed:
Coincidentimently; Embryomalic; Electrifically; Fiveishness; Flimmer; Inexclickable; Fenugrish five things; I am fluxating in 8.; It is a Valsefy. - Leif Segerstam |
|
|
|
Godzillaviolist
Guest
|
|
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2005, 03:46:20 PM » |
|
MAHLER, Gustav. Das Lied von der Erde. Eine Symphonie für eine Tenor- und eine Alt- (oder Bariton-) Stimme und Orchester (nach Hans Bethges "Die chinesische Flöte") ... Partitur. Vienna/ Leipzig, Universal-Edition (1912).
Did Mahler himself add the "Eine Symphonie" part? Mahler died in 1911, the year before that was published. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
KevinP
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2005, 03:49:08 PM » |
|
Heaven forbid we can't put a proper label on the work.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
We labour under the delusion that today's performance is the best the world has known. In a true musical sense, the performance in Mozart's time was a lot better, from what I've read. The musicians played better together and they seemed to be more concerned. --WIlliam Russo, 1962
|
|
|
|
MahlerSnob
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2005, 03:55:56 PM » |
|
Das Lied is perhaps the first composition to totally integrate the song cycle and the symphony. It is a song cycle and a symphony in equal measure. Yes, but to a certain degree all of Mahler's symphonys are part song cycle. Mahler's songs are the backbone for all of his compositions. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
WWBD - What Would Bach Do?
|
|
|
|
Xenophanes
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2005, 04:17:55 PM » |
|
There are often arguments here about whether Mahler's Das Lied Von Der Erde is a Song Cycle or a Symphony. Your take?
Yes. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
CyberStryke21
Guest
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2005, 04:49:12 PM » |
|
I've read the theory that Mahler did, in fact, compose it as his 9th symphony, but didn't call it as such out of respect/fear of Beethoven, but I can't remember where.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
val
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2005, 09:56:59 PM » |
|
To me, it is a song cycle (based on the common element of the chinese poems). Never a Symphony, since it has no thematic relation between the movements, no symphonic structure. We can call it a Symphony, but then, all could be called a Symphony.
But, no matter, it is a masterpiece. The poems are extraordinary beautiful and Mahler has a deep understanding of them. The first and last Lieder are, in my opinion, the greatest inspirations of Mahler.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Harry Collier
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2005, 11:59:24 PM » |
|
Obviously, it's a symphonic song cycle  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
MahlerSnob
|
|
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2005, 01:41:27 AM » |
|
To me, it is a song cycle (based on the common element of the chinese poems). Never a Symphony, since it has no thematic relation between the movements, no symphonic structure. We can call it a Symphony, but then, all could be called a Symphony. I believe the same can be said about Mahler 3, although I haven't studied the piece thoroughly so I'm not too familiar with it's large-scale thematic and formal relationships. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
WWBD - What Would Bach Do?
|
|
|
|
DavidW
Guest
|
|
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2005, 01:49:13 AM » |
|
Yes, but to a certain degree all of Mahler's symphonys are part song cycle. Mahler's songs are the backbone for all of his compositions.
Even the ones that don't have singing!? Give me a break!! It's obvious that for instance the sixth symphony is not a fucking song cycle. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
from the new world
|
|
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2005, 08:06:03 AM » |
|
As a mathematician I think that my arithmetic way be wrong:  Symphony no. 8 in E flat 9) Das Lied von der Erde 10) Symphony no. 9 in D It it is a symphony then why did Mahler call his 10th the 9th and his 11th the 10th? Since it would be very easy to rename Das Lied whonce the 10th (9th) was completed. But Mahler did not do this, and I can only assume that Das Lied is not a symphony. Though it is a very impressive integrated symphonic song cycle. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Poll
