Any piece that you have lots of recordings of but still not completely happy?

[Sergeant Rock]

The other work is Elgar's 2nd.

Hector, resistance is futile. You know in your heart Sinopoli got it right. Just admit it, in a loud and confident voice before your peers and the Queen. You'll feel better in the morning. 

Sarge

[Harry Collier]

I own Klemp's Bach Suites...I won't tell if you won't

Interesting. Be assured, I won't tell anyone.The Japanese, thank goodness, refuse to be fashionable when it comes to classical music, so I was able to obtain the 1960 recording of the Bach Brandenburgs from Klemperer and the Philharmonia (from HMV in Tokyo, an EMI-Japan release). The recording seems to be banned in pretty well every other country, a reason for being deeply aggrieved at the dictatorship of the Harpsichord Brigade.
What does one want from a recording of the Brandenburgs? a) clarity of texture -- we need to hear all the parts b) balance of sound c) top-of-the-range playing in both solos and tuttis d) a sense of overall structure e) a sense of depth and perspective in the recording.
Well, so far I have only listened to Brandenburgs 1-3 of this set. But, so far, the Klemperer set has all of these qualities. I am delightfully amazed. Perhaps at last -- after much hunting, trial and error, it has to be said -- I have found my ideal set of Bach's Brandenburg concerti. And not a plucking harpsichord in sight (except for the fifth Brandenburg).

[Bunny]

I have multiple recordings of any piece I love.  If I don't love the music, I don't even want one recording of it.  I think it was Artur Schnabel who once said that the music is greater than the performance, which meant that you always could find something new when performing the same pieces.  Thus, I'm always in search of a new great performance to lend insight into the heart of the music.

[Brian]

Gliere, Ilya Murometz.  Rakhlin might be the best (I have a transfer from Lp; don't remember who did it off the top of my head).  Stokowski is very good for what it is, a chopped to bit version of the score.  Of course, some people think the music is shit anyway.

I first discovered that amazing work on the Naxos disc (Johanos) a few weeks ago ... it really left me stunned. What an awesome piece!

As for what conductors get wrong in the pieces I picked ... dunno, have never found recs I love completely. Take the Tchaikovsky Serenade as an example. (I haven't heard your Barbirolli rec, seems unavailable on ArkivMusic too.) Nearly everyone seems to take the very opening kind of limply, and a hair quickly. The transition to the first subject always strikes me as off ... hm. The serenade as a whole seems to be a fluid stream of consciousness, which seems a rare interpretive style ... Honestly, I have never seen the score and don't know what Tchaikovsky intended; I just know that my recordings don't sound like my ideal. Sorry I can't help

[Que]

The 9th of LvB. Someone always louses something up.

Yep, that's a tough one that occupied me for years. But believe me, it exists!
(Furtwängler Lucerne '54. Also like Jochum/RCO.)

LvB's Missa Solemnis . . . . . . . . Klemperer is pretty damn close . . . . . . . but not quite tout à fait au point . . . . . .

Ditto for me! But I have still two on my list to try: Jochum/RCO and Kubelik/BRSO.

But frankly I think the problem is in the balance between orchestra and choir. Something I guess can only be satisfactory solved by a HIP recording. Unfortunately, I don't like the Gardiner...

Q

[Mozart]

Fricsay,

Karajan '62,

Karajan '77

I have both Karajans, and lots more but I usually will listen to Wand's.

[Hector]

I misread HEctor's post as if he was looking for a satisfying Elgar's Cello concerto and I recommended Fournier, but what he actually wrote was Edgar's 2nd symphony 

Him as well!

[Hector]

Hector, resistance is futile. You know in your heart Sinopoli got it right. Just admit it, in a loud and confident voice before your peers and the Queen. You'll feel better in the morning. 

Sarge

In my deep, dark heart of unfathomable blackness I know that Boult got it right.

But which recording?

There are two conductors who could never get it right and should have been discouraged: Soltnopoli and Sinolti. The very though Aaaaaaaaaah!

[FideLeo]

But frankly I think the problem is in the balance between orchestra and choir. Something I guess can only be satisfactory solved by a HIP recording. Unfortunately, I don't like the Gardiner...

Q

Herreweghe's version has a near perfect balance between o / c - it may or may not be the tonmeister's doing, but it sounds good to these ears, with most sung words now being intelligible.

[Que]

Herreweghe's version has a near perfect balance between o / c - it may or may not be the tonmeister's doing, but it sounds good to these ears, with every sung word now being intelligible rather than mumbled.

Thank you!

JS BACH - Patron Saint of the Harpsichord Brigade

Nice...

Q

[FideLeo]

Thank you!

To me it is rather plausible to suggest that, at the premiere of the ninth, the choir and vocal soloists were actually placed IN FRONT OF the orchestra, rather than the other way around, as in most modern performances.  Indeed this would have resolved the problem of balance rather nicely, with a choir that is closer and thus more audible to the audience offstage.  Supposedly the orchestral musicians were seated in the back, perhaps on terraced platforms like Berlioz's orchestra in Paris Conservatory shortly after.

[Bunny]

Herreweghe's version has a near perfect balance between o / c - it may or may not be the tonmeister's doing, but it sounds good to these ears, with most sung words now being intelligible.

I have heard very mixed reports about Herreweghe's Ninth.  On one hand I hear that the singing is very good and on the other I hear (and in more than one place) that the soprano is noticeably flat in a few places.  From what I have read, the recording has not garnered any great acclaim.  I will be glad if someone here buys it and can give an honest appraisal of this recording.  Meanwhile, I'm afraid that I'm still on the fence for this one.

[Mark]

You might consider Karajan's '77 Berlin recording. It was a Grand Prix du Disque winner and comes highly recommended by several British critics, including Ivan March who says, "Both soloists sing with eloquence. What is especially appealing is the beautifully recorded contribution of the Vienna Singverein, full and well focused (just sample the grave ‘Denn alles Fleisch, es ist wie Gras’ – so well balanced with the orchestra)."

Sarge

This recommendation for a new Brahms A German Requiem came today, and I'm listening to it now. There's certainly some energy and excitement here that's missing from other recordings I own. The acoustic is a little 'crowded' (perhaps 'busy' is a better word), and I'd like to hear it on good hifi equipment before passing final judgement. But on the whole, I am at least enjoying what I'm hearing ... so all good so far.

[FideLeo]

I have heard very mixed reports about Herreweghe's Ninth.  On one hand I hear that the singing is very good and on the other I hear (and in more than one place) that the soprano is noticeably flat in a few places.  From what I have read, the recording has not garnered any great acclaim.  I will be glad if someone here buys it and can give an honest appraisal of this recording.  Meanwhile, I'm afraid that I'm still on the fence for this one.

Well Q. didn't ask for a "be-all-and-end-all" ninth, only one with a great o/c balance, hence my recommendation of the Herreweghe.  I wouldn't be surprised if you have different priorities in choosing your next recording to purchase.  

[Bunny]

Well Q. didn't ask for a "be-all-and-end-all" ninth, only one with a great o/c balance, hence my recommendation of the Herreweghe.  I wouldn't be surprised if you have different priorities in choosing your next recording to purchase. 

Priorities aside, I don't know what I'll be purchasing as my dear friend FL spurred me to take the hit for a certain Haydn recording by the Apponyi Quartett (and I am very sorry about my wallet. )

As the thread is about recordings that don't quite meet the standard of perfection, perhaps the Herreweghe will fit right in.

[FideLeo]

Priorities aside, I don't know what I'll be purchasing as my dear friend FL spurred me to take the hit for a certain Haydn recording by the Apponyi Quartett (and I am very sorry about my wallet. )

I hope your "dear friend" didn't urge you to buy expensive!  

As the thread is about recordings that don't quite meet the standard of perfection, perhaps the Herreweghe will fit right in.

As do most other recordongs of the ninth.  Too bad the thread will be too short for all recordings ever made to be nominated in it.   

[Que]

Well Q. didn't ask for a "be-all-and-end-all" ninth, only one with a great o/c balance, hence my recommendation of the Herreweghe.  I wouldn't be surprised if you have different priorities in choosing your next recording to purchase.  

Ha! Whe have a misunderstanding: I was talking about the Missa Solemnis!
And thought you recommended Herreweghe's recording of that...  But I find your comments on the ninth very interesting nonetheless, and I guess they apply to the Missa Solemnis too.

Q

[FideLeo]

Ha! Whe have a misunderstanding: I was talking about the Missa Solemnis!
And thought you recommended Herreweghe's recording of that...  But I find your comments on the ninth very interesting nonetheless, and I guess they apply to the Missa Solemnis too.

Q

OOOPS!   

Herreweghe's Missa Solemnis is quite a bit fuzzily recorded than his ninth, being a live recording and all.  Zinman's cheap recording, while not really hip, has more clarity in that department, I think, and doesn't sound small either.  While there is no perfect recording of the ninth in my book - based on the factor of o/c balance alone - it's even worse in the case of the Missa.  Perhaps Andreas Spering, Christoph Spering or Bruno Weil will make a near perfect recording (again in that regard) for us one day.  Meanwhile I am getting some cheap thrills from the Hanover Band/Kerje Kvam recording.  Very nebulous sound - it's a NIMBUS (tm)!  - but it has some rather exposed brass playing (on the level of Savall's Eroica and Derek Solomon's Schumann) which I rather enjoy in this kind of music.

[Que]

While there is no perfect recording of the ninth in my book - based on the factor of o/c balance alone - it's even worse in the case of the Missa.

My sentiments exactly. 

Perhaps Andreas Spering, Christoph Spering or Bruno Weil will make a near perfect recording (again in that regard) for us one day.

Again I agree - I'm counting on them as well, and would add Frieder Bernius and Thomas Hengelbrock as contenders. Hope it shall not be long until one of them takes on the challenge!

Q

[FideLeo]

My sentiments exactly. 

Again I agree - I'm counting on them as well, and would add Frieder Bernius and Thomas Hengelbrock as contenders. Hope it shall not be long until one of them takes on the challenge!

Q

Bernius is a very gifted choral conductor, but he never seems to be interested in anything later than Willibald Gluck.  Ditto Ton Koopman (Mozart) and Thomas Hengelbrock (Haydn).  Marc Minkowski can drive his music with a turbo like there is no tomorrow - imo what a great Missa performance needs - but I don't think he will touch Beethoven either.  Alas! 

Actually another near perfect candidate for recording a near perfect Beethoven Missa is Martin Haselböck, whose work released on the Caprriccio label has been somehow neglected.  His Haydn, which I have heard, is vital, and he has since made very hip recordings of Schubert Masses and Bruckner Symphony No. 1.  Perhaps he will be obliged.