Greatest Brahms Symphony

[Herman]

The revision doesn't change the music much; it's primarily a reorchestration. 

I hear lots more than orchestration differences. (Folks: this is about Schumann 4!)

[Renfield]

It's tragically beautiful.

Indeed.

More so, it is the most formally accomplished of Brahms' symphonies by far; to the extent that one can even hear the difference without a score. (Or at least I do. If that is simply a subjectively manufactured by-product of my liking it, I stand to be corrected.)


Edit: Who was it that suggested the Brahms' 4th is really a 4-movement set of highly elaborate variations on a theme? I forget.

[Que]

But the fourth -- what is it that I'm not hearing? That I'm failing to respond to?

Resignation, melancholy, hope.
You're probably still young...? 

Q

[Brian]

It's interesting to see such agreement about the greatness of the 4th.

Can someone explain why? -- I've just never enjoyed it myself as much as the first two,

The first is tragic. The second is beautiful.

But the fourth -- what is it that I'm not hearing? That I'm failing to respond to?

Eh, I'd say more like the first is heroic, the second beautiful, the third bittersweet, the fourth tragic. Or perhaps the third tragic - and the fourth a glorious abyss...

[hornteacher]

It's interesting to see such agreement about the greatness of the 4th.

Can someone explain why? -- I've just never enjoyed it myself as much as the first two,

The first is tragic. The second is beautiful.

But the fourth -- what is it that I'm not hearing? That I'm failing to respond to?

Honestly it took me a while to get into the 4th as well, but its been my favorite ever since.  The greatness is in the construction.  You've got a beautiful E minor first movement that gives a kind of passionate intensity, a weighty second movement in a very ambivalent tonality (Phrygian mode), a rugged and energetic third movement that resembles sailors having a good time by the docks, and the real kicker, a finale in the form of a passacaglia, (essentially a repeated bass line with variations layered on top).  In this case, Brahms manages to brilliantly compose 30 variations that develop over the movement like a sonata form structure.  Its a huge achievement in compositional writing.  Great stuff.  Try looking at a score while you listen.  That helped me a lot.

[Renfield]

If we're doing "semantic" descriptions, the 4th is quite literally tragic indeed, as I see it, culminating in catastrophe.

(With the full meaning of the word: "the denouement  of a drama", as the Oxford Dictionary would have it.)

And the masterfully-contained structure only reinforces that, of course.

[Mandryka]

Great responses -- thanks!

I am still young (at heart.)

When I said that the first is tragic, for some reason I had in mind a particular performance -- Giulini's 1962 recording with the Philharmonia.

I can't hear the tragedy or resignation or melancholy  in the fourth -- I just don't hear anything like that at all. I guess it must be a bit of a blind spot.

I've always seen it as quite a jolly thing really -- you'll all think I'm mad I'm sure!

I'm going to go away and listen to it again -- if I change my mind I'll let you know.