Topic: The Early Music Club (EMC)

[Mandryka]

What changed in the world of Machaut interpretation with Parrot? Do you think his recording of, say, the Notre Dame Mass, still holds up?

From a performance point of view, Parrott was one of the first to experiment with an assertive rather than a meek  a capella singing style from men only, one of the first to use a small ensemble of singers, one of the first focus on mid and lower registers, and one of the first to relish the harmonies in the score rather than write them out. He also decided to present the music Machaut wrote in the context of a whole mass, with chanted stuff.

I can’t say whether his ideas still hold up, I’m just not in touch with current research. Obviously I can’t say whether anyone will like his recording. But I can say that it’s a landmark experiment in the music’s reception history.

[San Antone]

What changed in the world of Machaut interpretation with Parrot? Do you think his recording of, say, the Notre Dame Mass, still holds up?

Parrott's recording of the Messe is among the best, IMO, and still holds up.  There have been others in his wake, Mary Berry and Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Dominique Vellard), e.g., that use a similar approach which are also very good.

His male vocal group is smaller, his conservative treatment of accidentals (musica ficta) and pitch (low) are correct, IMO, and he places the polyphonic sections of the Mass within the proper liturgical setting, with all the chants of the Proper.  And above all he does not use any instruments.

[vers la flamme]

Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

[Traverso]

Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

Parrott is nothing less than great in Monteverdi,The Vesper, Selva morale e spirituale  and not to forget his excellent Orfeo

[San Antone]

Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

Andrew Parrott wrote a game-changing paper concerning the pitch level of Monteverdi Vespers, and his subsequent recording is mandatory, IMO, for anyone interested in this music.

[Mandryka]

Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order.

It’s on YouTube, so you can see what you make of the interpretation yourself before making an investment. This is a piece of music which has been received a lot of different approaches on record.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/RDovcUQ8Kgk" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://youtube.com/v/RDovcUQ8Kgk</a>

I’m afraid I haven’t heard his Monteverdi.

[deprofundis]

I have the Andrew Parrot of Gesualdo, it's average but not bad.

Dear ZamyraByrd how about madrigals, I'm listening Fruhe Italiensche Madrigale by capella antiqua Munchen directed by Konrad Ruhland, we have big name of Franco-Flemish here De Rore, Arcadelt ,verdelot, 2lp Box-set , have you heard this Mandryka, anyone?

Sounds goods but I don't know, it did not had the impact I wish on me perhaps, I'm too harsh in my judgement, did not heard it enough already.

[Mandryka]

I’ve heard his Gesualdo, but I’ve never thought about it apart from this: it’s good to break up the motets with some chanting, an unbroken sequence of responsoria motets is too rich for me.

In the music Machaut composed for the mass, the interesting thing for me is that Parrott gets the singers to sing straight, sing fast, and sing without much inflection. There are consequences for the “atmosphere” he creates, and presumably the performance is a reflection of ideas he has about what a medieval mass “felt like.” Or maybe he’s identifying the music with the score.

This is an aspect of the performance which may or may not stand up to scrutiny in the light of what’s known today about medieval singing. I don’t know. Some people followed him, but many more recent interpretations - Vellard, Vienna Vocal Consort, Capella Tetsuro Hanai, Emmanuel Bonnardot,  Lucien Kandell, Ensemble Organum, Graindelavoix - have not followed him in this. They’re more soulful.

[San Antone]

I’ve heard his Gesualdo, but I’ve never thought about it apart from this: it’s good to break up the motets with some chanting, an unbroken sequence of responsoria motets is too rich for me.

In the music Machaut composed for the mass, the interesting thing for me is that Parrott gets the singers to sing straight, sing fast, and sing without much inflection. There are consequences for the “atmosphere” he creates, and presumably the performance is a reflection of ideas he has about what a medieval mass “felt like.” Or maybe he’s identifying the music with the score.

This is an aspect of the performance which may or may not stand up to scrutiny in the light of what’s known today about medieval singing. I don’t know. Some people followed him, but many more recent interpretations - Vellard, Vienna Vocal Consort, Capella Tetsuro Hanai, Lucien Kandell, Ensemble Organum, Graindelavoix - have not followed him in this. They’re more soulful.

First, I don't share your characterization of the singing of Parrott's group. 

Next, we don't know more today about Medieval singing than we did when Andrew Parrott made his recording of the Machaut Messe.  The professional scholarship post-Parrott has focused mostly on the context for the mass's composition, treatment of accidentals and size of the vocal ensemble.  However, some musicians such as Manuel Peres and Bjorn Schmelzer have concocted some imaginative theories for their somewhat radical performance of Machaut and other examples of Medieval music.  As for melismatic ornamentation, there is little to base their performance practices on other than speculation.

That said, I do find the recordings by Peres and Schmelzer entertaining, even though the arguments they deploy for their approach, as beautiful as it may sound, remain unconvincing.  Kandel is less interesting, and the other groups you mention I probably have heard but don't remember anything about their recordings.  I would not place Dominique Vellard along with Peres and Schmelzer in this regard. His recording of the Messe is closer to Parrott's than either Peres or Schmelzer.

We've debated these issues to death in the past. 

 

[Que]

Following up on our discussion on the WAYLT thread:

Interesting comparative review by Todd McComb from Medieval.org:
http://www.medieval.org/music/early/cdc/frb9373.html

Q

[Que]

Oh, and anyone interested in Franco-Flemish polyphony should have a look at this shortlist:
http://www.medieval.org/music/early/polyphony.html

Q

[deprofundis]

Dear folks of EMC good news for you guys, Marcel Pérès masterpiece of masterpiece have been finally re-issue for our divine pleasure ''Le Graduel d'Aliénor de Bretagne''.

WOW what a news I did not knew this it happen in October 2019, i really love this recording, very sunny & soulful very good, what else can I say it's Marcel best album ever. And I heard them all so far, who want to debated if he done better so far, this is tremendously triumphant, this is it, on a desert Island, imagine I'm alone or you are in a scenario like the Brilliant movie LOST whit Tom Hanks, you want this album, by all god mean, this is so ethereal & 
outstanding,you won't feel alone even if alone...

Perfect album of ancient lore  of of the best, I stamp my approval, If you love ancient music , you will love this just as much as I do, I stamped this other worldly moving, this album will have many spin in you're CD player I swear to god, heck do you want me to lie, a must, true love at first sight, this album gorgeous, splendid music.

[deprofundis]

Choir  of church for the advent is prodigious,I really like this ensemble, really do, the voice are warm and fluid sung whit devotion, in other  words, they are real darn good professional, needless to says I own ever record they put out, there dazzling fabulous.

Seek them all like I did and tell me what you think:
H.Praetorius
F.Geurrero
P.de manchicourt vol 1-2
T.Crécquillon vol 1-2
J.Clémens non Papa
G.Dufay

You love renaissance, what are you waiting for, you're missing on  such a skillful & talented ensemble, I love this ensemble so much, it's screaming out awesome all over.

What do you think of them, do you like em, tell me, I think there fantastic, tremendously out of this world great(this is a small word for such an ensemble).

[Mandryka]

Interesting mariological essay from the above CD

MARIAN SONGS

Throughout the Middle Ages Mary was a focal point for meditation and pray-er. Because she had been human herself, she was pre-eminently able to understand human shortcomings and weaknesses. At the same time, by having conceived and borne the Son of God while retaining her virginity, she was a human being in close contact with the divine. For medieval man this combination of divinity and humanity was one of the most appealing of Mary's characteristics. Mary was invo-ked as 'mediatrix,' a mediator between man and God, and as 'advocata,' an advo-cate pleading for man with God.

 In the course of the Middle Ages the relation between Mary and the praying and singing individual gradually changes. In the early Middle Ages Mary is predomi-nantly the distant queen of heaven, at the end of the Middle Ages she is also hailed and invoked as a loving and merci-ful woman. Small wonder that in the plas-tic arts and in literature Mary appears in many different guises. Typical of the early Middle Ages is the image of Mary as the Mother of God, the queen of heaven. She is depicted as a crowned monarch, standing on the crescent moon, garlan-ded with the rays of the sun. In texts which describe Mary in this capacity there is no question of a personal relationship between Mary and the person who is watching or reading and/or liste-ning. Man is - so to speak - not personally involved in what he envisages while praying, singing and listening. He is a spectator who can only sing Mary's prais-es from a distance. Among the songs on the present CD this image of Mary is apparent in e.g. the introit Gaudeamus omnes in Domino and in the hymn Ave generosa, gloriosa et intacta puella. But also in the fifteenth-century Middle Dutch song Laet ons mit hogher vrolicheit Mary is predominantly presented in many of the guises she had acquired in the course of the Middle Ages: chosen Mother of God, pure flower of chastity, noble cham-ber of the Trinity, fountain of sweetness, temple of dignity, noble rose...

Yet in this Middle-Dutch song other qualities are mentioned as well, and in the course of the Middle Ages these beco-me increasingly important in the worship of the Virgin Mary. People sing of Mary as the comforter of all sorrow, the mother of gentleness and mercy. These characte-ristics make her pre-eminently suited for the roles increasingly reserved for her: those of advocata and mediatrix. In Laet ons mit hogher vrolicheit the single task given to man is to sing Mary's praise. Many of the other songs on the present CD present a quite different picture. In these Mary is repeatedly called upon to intercede on man's behalf. Because of his sinfulness and uncleanness man cannot address God and his Son directly, but asks Mary to put in a good word for him.

A splendid example of a song in which the two guises of Mary - queen of heaven and merciful, compassionate mot-her - are lauded is Royne celestre, buer fusses to nee (Queen of heaven, happy was your birth). In the first three stanzas Mary is extolled as heavenly queen, foun-tain of mercy, odoriferous rose, to which man may turn for rest and consolation. In the fourth stanza the poet employs the-mes characteristic of courtly love poetry: in Mary there is no deceit, calculation or ambiguity, disloyalty or falsehood, traits which a lover so often encounters in the lady he (distantly) loves. Unlike the earth-ly lady, Mary is not going to drive him to insanity: for those who love you with a pure love cannot but turn out all right and obtain eternal life.' This stanza is also the pivot of the poem: it is followed by another three stanzas in which man's sinfulness and filthiness are sharply con-trasted with Mary's freshness and purity. The song ends with a prayer to Mary: 'Source of loveliness, have mercy, have mercy. Unite me with your beloved Son, as you have done before with many a lost soul ...'


In the English song Edi be thu hevene quene (Blessed are you, queen of heaven) Mary is both praised on account of her excellent qualities and called upon to have mercy on the 'I' of the song and to unite him with her Son. This song employs even more imagery from the tra-dition of courtly love poetry than Royne celestre. Mary is addressed as 'swete leve-di' (sweet lady) and the 'I'describes him-self as 'thin knight', 'thi mon' (your ser-vant), who is bound to Mary by bonds of love. This particular choice of words gives the poem a very personal, almost intima-te character.


The prayer for intercession and mediation is not always worded in such pregnant and personal language. In the song Santa Maria, strela do dia (Holy Mary, morning star) the prayer for Mary's intercession and mediation is much more detached. There is no 'I' in the poem, but 'sinners' and 'we' instead. Modestly the poet ends with the wish 'and, if it please you, I would dearly like to see my soul in such company.' Also in Maria virgo virgi-num, Salve Regina misericordiae, Quen boa dona querra and Verbum bonum et suave the prayer for intercession and help
is less personal. In this regard it is inter-esting to note that in Mariam Matrem Mary and Jesus are by turns lauded and implored to answer the prayers of the people and to defend them: 'Let us honour Mary, Virgin and mother, and extol Jesus Christ in unity.'

The suffering Mary is extensively port-rayed in the Italian song Or piangiamo, the piange Maria: Let us lament because Mary is more than usually sorrowful. In the first stanza Mary is depicted as stan-ding at the foot of the cross, bent over and weeping, while a thousand spears seem to be piercing her heart. In the sec-ond and third stanzas Mary is speaking. She is inconsolable because she has lost her Son, and she is wondering whom to turn to for help. Such texts were very popular in the late Middle Ages. Very well known is the Stabat mater, a comprehen-sive account of Mary's suffering at the cross. By emphasizing Mary's humanity and vulnerability in this way the praying individual could identify with precisely this humanity and - as it were - unite with Mary in feeling the suffering of her Son.



MARY AND THE OLD TESTAMENT

Together with Jesus, Mary is the link between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Jesus is mentioned frequently in the Old Testament, e.g. in the book of Isaiah and in the Psalms. But for medieval man Mary, too, was obviously connected with the Old Testament. Not only did she belong to the house of David, the famous king who wrote the psalms and whose exploits are chronicled in several Old Testament books. Mary was also regarded as the new Eve, who annulled the effects of the Fall caused by the first Eve, through the immaculate conception and the virgin birth of her Son. In Salve Regina misericordiae the people addres-sing Mary call themselves 'exiles, children of Eve'. This earthly life is a state of exile, which they have to endure because they are Eve's descendants. They implore Mary to be their intercessor, who, after the period of exile is over, will lead them to heaven where they will see Jesus. In Edi be thu hevene quene, too, we find a reference to the bitter sufferings Eve has brought upon her descendants, and to Mary, who will guide them out of their affliction to heaven. In this song there is also a reference to Mary's 'heghe kunne', her high lineage, i.e. her being descended from king David. A similar reference is found in Verbum bonum et suave.


The connection between the Old Testament and Mary does not end here. Medieval theology regarded some Old Testament events as prefigurations of Mary and particularly of the virgin birth of Christ. For most people living in the Middle Ages such references were self-evi-dent. They could be found in theological writings, but they were depicted too, for example in murals and in miniatures in illuminated manuscripts. A miniature in a fifteenth-century manuscript from Zwolle shows the Annunciation: the angel Gabriel tells Mary that she will give birth to the Son of God. In the margin of this miniature there are two smaller miniatu-res, representing Moses with the burning bush and Gideon with the fleece of wool. For the contemporary (educated) behol-der these references were crystal clear:
4
they prefigured the virgin birth of Christ. The bush that was not affected by the fla-mes points forward to Mary, who remai-ned a virgin although she became preg-nant. And the fleece which Gideon had put on the threshing-floor and which became sodden with dew, was seen as a foreshadowing of Mary's conception, while the dry threshing-floor symbolized Mary's virginity. Such prefigurations can also be found in texts. Verbum bonum et suave, with its emphasis on the sweet and good word 'Ave' with which the angel greeted Mary, is a song in praise of the immaculate conception. In this song, too, Gideon's fleece of wool and the sign of the bush' (i.e. the burning bush) are mentioned. A more veiled reference to Gideon's fleece is found in Ave generosa, gloriosa et intacta puella. Here Mary's conception is compared to the grass on which the dew descends and which is infused with growing-power. Also in Laet ons mit hogher vrolicheit, a song about the virgin birth, there is a reference to the 'sweet dew' that fell on Mary, who is depicted as a fresh-blown rose.


THE MUSIC

Between the 10th and 15th centuries a rich Marian repertoire develops, intended for a variety of occasions: Church festivals in honour of Mary, religious plays, proces-sions, pilgrimages, and of devotional mu-sic performed by professional musicians (minstrels) for an evening's entertainment at court.

The minstrel's job was to accompany monophonic songs. This musical tradition was oral: minstrels did not read or write music, but knew countless melodies by heart and were able to improvise an accompaniment on the spot, often with an introduction, an interlude and a closing piece. When no vocalists were at hand, a minstrel could create an entirely new piece on the basis of the conventions with regard to improvisation and composition.

The virtuosity of Gautier de Coinci and Hildegard von Bingen and the refined can-tigas of Alfonso the Wise are contrasted with much simpler music, such as the ear-liest songs of praise in honour of Mary, the Gregorian antiphons. Gregorian chant is monophonic music par excellence. Anti-phons like Ave Maria gratia plena and Salve Regina play an important role in the Marian repertoire, because many subse-quent compositions in honour of the Bles-sed Virgin are based on them. Ever since the 13th century the Marian antiphons have been sung in churches and monaste-ries at the end of Compline, the last of the canonical hours of prayer. Especially in the Low Countries the Marian antiphons found their way to the people: from the end of the 14th century every opportunity was taken to sing or perform them, high up on a tower, in the parvis, on Holy Days, etc. The introit Gaudeamus omnes in Domino is also found in the Gregorian repertoire in honour of Mary.

The visionary nun Hildegard von Bingen wrote songs written down ca. 1150 in the collection Symphonia armonie celesti-urn revelationum. Her poetry and music are both beautiful and idiosyncratic. Scenes from her visions are joined to original melodies of an unusually large melodic range. The song of praise Ave generosa was notated under her supervision.


The 13th-century French musician, poet and abbot Gautier de Coinci lived in an era in which cultural life was dominated by poetry. Most of his songs are contra-facts: new words set to existing melodies. As a poet he is one of the all-time greats. From his most important work, Miracles de Nostre-Dame, he emerges as a passionate verbal wizard. In 40.000 lines of verse Gautier recounts the miracles worked by the Virgin Mary, and intersperses his narra-tive with prayers and songs. One of these
songs is the lay Royne celestre. The lay, a lengthy epic song, was regarded as the ultimate poetic challenge.

 La quarte estampie Royale is one of the few examples of notated instrumental music from this period. It is one of eight `petrified' improvisations to be found in the Old French Manuscrit du roi. The pres-ent CD contains further examples of ins-trumental improvisation, some traditional, some made up spontaneously during per-formance. The Estampida splendida is an improvisation on the caccia 0 Virgo splen-dens from the Llibre Vermeil. The estampie is followed by the polyphonic song Mariam Matrem from the same manu-script. The Llibre Vermeil is the 14th-centu-ry collection of Marian songs kept in the monastery of Montserrat, which is dedica-ted to the 'black madonna' (The Blessed Virgin Maria).

The motet Maria virgo virginum can be found in the French satirical poem Roman de Fauvel, which is an important source for 11th- through 13th-century music. The poet of the Roman de Fauvel satirizes various social evils and invokes the help of the Virgin of Virgins.


Dance tune is the earliest notated ins-trumental music from England. It is a rebec solo. Because of its loud and pier-cing sound the rebec was used during pro-cessions to keep the devils at bay. The Dance tune is preceded by Edi be thu, hevene quene, a melody with typically English parallel thirds. In the rest of Europe at that time the third was not regarded as a harmonious interval. The instrumental intermezzi are improvised.

The estampie Danza Ave Maria pia, performed on a portative organ, develo-ped from an improvised prelude to the sequence Verbum bonum et suave. It is based on an organ intabulation of the Gregorian Credo in a recently discovered manuscript dating from 1445.

The title of the improvised Bassa dan-za sopra Salve Regina hints at its source of inspiration, and also informs us that the melody of the antiphon is to be heard in the bass.


The song of praise Laet ons mit hog-her vrolicheit, a Dutchified version of the 12th-century Ave marls stella, is performed in alternatim fashion (vocal-instrumental). The instrumental part is improvised. Salve Regina and Ave mods stella belong to the Dutch Marian repertoire of the late Middle Ages. Instrumentalists would improvise of an evening on the Marian antiphons and other songs . The Dutch text of the hymn comes from the hymnal of the religious movement known as 'Modeme Devotie'. The members of this lay community were enjoined to silence, but they were allowed to sing hymns from their own little hymn in which the Marian songs figure prominently.

The 13th-century Cantigas de Santa Maria are the Spanish counterpart of Mira-cles de Nostre-Dame. They recount over 400 miracles worked by Mary, many of the songs being contrafacts. An important dif-ference with the Miracles is that the Can-tigas included only songs. The poems are written in Galician-Portuguese, an artificial language used for lyric poetry. King Alfonso X the Wise was the patron of this undertaking. The enlightened monarch turned his court into a centre of art and learning, and participated in the actual writing of the Cantigas, in which two types of song can be distinguished. Most of the ,ongs are `cantigas de miragre', miniature miracle plays set to music. Santa Maria, strela do dia and Quen boa dona querra belong to the minority category of `canti-gas de loor', simple songs of praise sung during worship in church.
 
In 13th century Italy, under the influence of Franciscan friars, the lay fraternities of the laudesi (singers of praise) were for-med, which for centuries - extending into the 20th century - helped to strengthen the social fabric of the community. They developed an immense repertory of songs of praise, the laude. These have come down to us in some 200 manuscripts, only two of which - Cortona and Florence -contain musical notation. The songs in the Cortona manuscript have simple, syllabic melodies, and are suitable for use during processions; hence the assumption that they were popular with the common peop-le. 0 divina virgo is an instrumental ver-sion of the lauda of the same title. The manuscript from Florence shows a deve-lopment towards melismatic laude for solo performance, but the melodic structure remains lucid notwithstanding, witness Or piangiamo the piange Maria.

[deprofundis]

This is quite impressive Mandryka, very insightful, I'm blown away, so fascinating, what do you think of Jacob Regnart marian motets I.m,
perhaps I,m lasy but do happen to have some quantity of marian motets. The adoration of virgin Mary as theme in this Burgundy era, nice find.

[Mandryka]

Regnart is very special to me because of a recording,  not marian motets, amateur singing by today's standards and no doubt old fashioned, but palpably intense, committed music making in that special way that pioneer amateur singers can bring. He shares the LP with his contemporary Leonhardt Lechner. I have a transfer, a good one, which you are welcome to have.

[deprofundis]

Andrew Carwood an excellent conductor of ensemble The fabulous: The Cardinal's musick and pick and choose a tremendously good composer: Orlande Lassus or Robert Fayrfax etc ...

Chance are it will be a keeper to cherish, thank you mister Carwood, My Lassus Missa surge Propera whit motets is one of my favorite Lassus release ever, timeless. the triple albums of Fayrfax is fantastic and majestic, very enjoyable, delightful pleasure.

I will be on a look out for more The cardinal's musick & Andrew Carwood work.

[deprofundis]

Regnart is very special to me because of a recording,  not marian motets, amateur singing by today's standards and no doubt old fashioned, but palpably intense, committed music making in that special way that pioneer amateur singers can bring. He shares the LP with his contemporary Leonhardt Lechner. I have a transfer, a good one, which you are welcome to have.

hello Madryka wow what a vinyl Regnart on Eterna, I have one ars nova album on that label thick robust vinyl from 1960.I worship Eterna release, this Label has good offerings, this is one of them. Have a nice day.

[Mandryka]

In fact, re Regnart I even like the Ciquecento recording. I say "even" because the style and the sound of that group is not usually something I respond to well -- they make a noise which is too rich and purple and chocolate coloured for my taste. I want a bit more lemon juice. But somehow their Regnart  CD caught my imagination, so that may say something about the music.

Chapeau à vous pour avoir deniché une perle de compositeur!