The World's 20 Greatest Orchestras

[Shrunk]

...according to Gramophone magazine.  In order:

1. Royal Concertgebouw
2. BPO
3. VPO
4. LSO
5. Chicago Symphony
6. Bavarian Radio Symphony Orch.
7. Cleveland Orchestra
8. Los Angeles Philharmonic
9. Budapest Festival Orchestra
10. Dresden Staatskapelle
11. Boston Symphony Orchestra
12. New York Philharmonic
13. San Francisco Symphony Orchestra
14. Mariinsky Theatre Orchestra
15. Russian National Orchestra
16. St. Petersburg Philharmonic
17. Leipzig Gewandhaus
18. Metropolitan Opera Orchestra
19. Saito Kinen Orchestra
20. Czech Philharmonic

Of course, I don't necessarily endorse the listing myself, or even the idea of such a list in general, but they're fun to provoke discussion with.  Any unjustified exclusions?  Unworthy inclusions?  Thoughts on what makes an orchestra great?

[Brian]

I have to question the enterprise - and would like to point out the British bias of which the list reeks. (The BPO doesn't deserve that high a finish - except that Gramophone are enamored with Simon Rattle...)

[Herman]

Eh, Brian? Berlin is in Germany. The Berlin Philharmonic has been considered one of the top three orchestras (with the VPO and the RCO) for many, many years, long before Rattle came to Berlin.

The British bias would show in making the generic LSO nr 4, where, under normal circumstances the Dresden should be.

[Brian]

Oh, I know; I was simply expressing a reservation that Berlin may no longer be worthy of being the world's #2. The whole idea of rankings is silly, however. I doubt the Dresden people are shaking in their boots worrying about how they have fallen behind the Budapest Festival Orchestra!

[Que]

Always a pleasure to see the RCO appreciated.
But I have seem to have missed the artistic rise of the orchestras from Los Angeles & San Francisco, and the downfall of Dresden, Leipzig & the Czech Philharmonic...

Q

[Dundonnell]

I have to question the enterprise - and would like to point out the British bias of which the list reeks. (The BPO doesn't deserve that high a finish - except that Gramophone are enamored with Simon Rattle...)

"British bias"??

I am outraged There is only ONE British orchestra in the list! There are SEVEN American orchestras! How many more do you want? The Philadelphia?

The inclusion of the Czech Philharmonic, the Saito Kinen and three Russian orchestras to the exclusion of the Philharmonia or the London Philharmonic is-at least-debatable.

[Kuhlau]

This topic seems to have done the rounds of every classical music forum I attend. And I agree: the whole venture is worthless. Let me give you the puerile opening sentences of the article that preceded the feature in last month's Gramophone - evidence (as if more was needed) that this publication has gone to the dogs:

It's a classical title showdown! Swapping gloves for glissandi and punches for prestos, players from around the globe square up for the hotly contested spot of World's Best Symphony Orchestra.

Excuse my language for a moment, but what b*ll*cks!

Not only is this indicative of feature-writing of the poorest and laziest kind, but it's also cliched, utterly irrelevant and wildly hyperbolic. Since when has this 'battle' (as Gramophone's eager sub-editor obviously and childishly decided this space-filling round-up should be billed) ever been ' ... hotly contested ... '. A total nonsense, IMO - one that made me cringe when I read it.

As for Brian's suggestion of British bias, I see no such thing at all. The Rattle angle is a straw that even a dying man wouldn't bother clutching at. And the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra emerging as the winners? Under Jansons? Seriously? Every recording bar one that I've heard from these forces (on their RCO Live label) has left me singularly unimpressed. But I'm sure the publicity was welcomed by all in Amsterdam.

FK

[Dundonnell]

I completely agree with your views on the 'Gramophone'!

I am rapidly despairing of a magazine I have bought, on and off, for over 40 years.

[Kuhlau]

I'm switching to International Record Review in the new year. A title for grown-ups.

FK

[Dundonnell]

I'm switching to International Record Review in the new year. A title for grown-ups.

FK

I buy both (and the BBC Music Magazine)....but only because I am very, very rich (NOT!!)

[Kuhlau]

At least BBC Music magazine knows it's not a super-intellectual title. Gramophone, OTOH, likes folk to think it is ... when in fact, it's lost its way, lowered its standards and gone in for more tabloid-style articles than does credit to its prestigious past. Guess that's what you get for sharing a stable with Classic FM magazine.

FK