Greatness in Music

[EmpNapoleon]

Wait a minute.  Some people think their music is great, while some think the music of others is not so great.  I think I'm getting the hang of this!

[Larry Rinkel]

Wait a minute.  Some people think their music is great, while some think the music of others is not so great.  I think I'm getting the hang of this!

It only took 855 posts to arrive at this pithy conclusion.

[BachQ]

It only took 855 posts to arrive at this pithy conclusion.

854 posts (the first post merely poses the question ........ and should not be included in the final count .......)

[Larry Rinkel]

854 posts (the first post merely poses the question ........ and should not be included in the final count .......)

Pedant!

[karlhenning]

854 posts (the first post merely poses the question ........ and should not be included in the final count .......)

But . . . EmpNapoleon's post was reply No. 855 . . . .

« Reply #855 on: October 03, 2007, 06:16:20 PM »

[karlhenning]

Some people think their music is great, while some think the music of others is not so great.

And some think, "This whole notion of Greatness be hanged!"

[jochanaan]

And some think, "This whole notion of Greatness be hanged!"

How can you hang something you can't define?

[karlhenning]

Hangin's too good for it, ya mean?

[dtwilbanks]

And so on.

[jochanaan]

Hangin's too good for it, ya mean?

Well, maybe.  Until we can define it, maybe it's better ignored.  That's sometimes a fate worse than hanging.

[greg]

We await your final draft, Greg ........

lol, my thoughts about "Greatness in Music" could never be sorted out into a single, compact little post.
last time i brought up the "charisma factor" in speakers, and said compared it to music.
of my many random thoughts that come up from time to time about this subject, i have a few more.
(warning, these thoughts are completely unorganized)

Maybe instead of trying to decide whether something is a masterpiece or not is just too limited, or even if it's just good or not. There's other adjectives you could use, such as "playful" or whatever. No matter how "good" a Haydn string quartet might be, or a short little Prokofiev piano piece, it won't have the same impact as something like a Wagner opera or Beethoven symphony on the public. The latter tend to be possible candidates for "masterpieces".

Masterpiece issue aside, what about just being "good"? uhhh i might get to that later

Also, another thought I've had is descriptions of music. Think of the same piece of music and describe it as if you liked it, and as if you hated it. You have opposite descriptions of the same thing. If you like the Rite of Spring, you can describe it as "A Powerful, adrenaline rush that really appeals to the more primitive side", if you hate it you can call it "Music that's more annoying than cats trying to sing." If you like Tchaikovsky's 6th, you can call it "Sad/Melancholy" if you hate it "sappy" or something.

So for a piece of music to be successful, you have to play it to the right audience and at the right time. Plus, it has to be "good." Maybe recognizing quality in music you don't like is just recognizing that it's likely to be liked by a lot of people, except for you. Like a percentage game or something.

anyways, i'm thinking too much now, time to watch cartoons

[Ten thumbs]

How can you hang something you can't define?

Great paintings get hung. ;

[jochanaan]

...So for a piece of music to be successful, you have to play it to the right audience and at the right time...

That's a definition of success.  But one aspect of greatness seems to be that the music can "succeed" with different audiences, again and again and again...

[greg]

That's a definition of success.  But one aspect of greatness seems to be that the music can "succeed" with different audiences, again and again and again...

that's a mysterious aspect.......

[jochanaan]

that's a mysterious aspect.......

Yes, indeed.

[longears]

That's a definition of success.  But one aspect of greatness seems to be that the music can "succeed" with different audiences, again and again and again...

And another that it can succeed with the same audience again and again and again.

[Haffner]

And another that it can succeed with the same audience again and again and again.

Cannibal Corpse  !!!

[BachQ]

Masterpiece issue aside, what about just being "good"? uhhh i might get to that later

Q: Would a composer ever deliberately write something that is NOT "good"?

IOW, if it's "good" to the composer, then who are we to judge/adjudge otherwise?

[zamyrabyrd]

Don't know if this is the right thread, but as long as you're talking about "greatness", there is a GREAT master series by Daniel Barenboim on playing the Beethoven Piano Sonatas currently on Mezzo TV (France) . Probably this is recorded commercially somewhere or will be. (I'll buy it once I find it.) It's so interesting to hear the ideas informing his own performances (so you know why he did such and such) but more than that he shows how these works are the receptacles of Beethoven's own greatness.

Transcending experience and elevating it in art, which Beethoven was faced with in his own deafness, is true greatness. (It looks like I repeated "greatness" several times already, but I can't think of a better word. And that's why I placed this post here.)

ZB

[karlhenning]

It just plain belongs, zb.