Humphrey Searle?

[Kullervo]

Lately I've been intrigued by the CPO label's output of early 20th c. symphonists, though I have yet to hear any of them. Humphrey Searle is one that interests me in particular, but all I know about him thus far is that he was a pupil of Webern and a Liszt expert. Does anyone have any opinion on his music? Would it be worth forking out the $20 to pick up his symphonies?

[Harry]

Yes to all questions.

[Kullervo]

Yes to all questions.

There is no "Yes to all" button!

[Harry]

There is no "Yes to all" button!

I have most of the works released on CPO, and can safely say, buy them, they are more than good, so that is a button indeed my friend.

[Kullervo]

I have most of the works released on CPO, and can safely say, buy them, they are more than good, so that is a button indeed my friend.

Great, that's enough of a recommendation for me. I'll pick it up on my next Amazon spree.

[Robert]

Lately I've been intrigued by the CPO label's output of early 20th c. symphonists, though I have yet to hear any of them. Humphrey Searle is one that interests me in particular, but all I know about him thus far is that he was a pupil of Webern and a Liszt expert. Does anyone have any opinion on his music? Would it be worth forking out the $20 to pick up his symphonies?

for sure, also while your there look up Frankel......

[PerfectWagnerite]

I think Searle and Frankel stink, large atonal symphonies as a rule do not work because our ears can't discern thematic developement, rendering these works vacuous and unconvincing.

[Kullervo]

I think Searle and Frankel stink, large atonal symphonies as a rule do not work because our ears can't discern thematic developement, rendering these works vacuous and unconvincing.

From what I've read it looks like Searle isn't a complete serialist. Anyway, it's only $17 for the whole lot. If I don't like it, I can always resell it.

[Harry]

I think Searle and Frankel stink, large atonal symphonies

Yes I kind of expected this from you, and frankly it amuses me.
For what you say is very very personal, and has nothing to do with reality.
Searle and Frankel are both great composers, and if you can ignore the Violin Concerto from Frankel, well than indeed your dislike is great.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Yes I kind of expected this from you, and frankly it amuses me.
For what you say is very very personal, and has nothing to do with reality.
Searle and Frankel are both great composers, and if you can ignore the Violin Concerto from Frankel, well than indeed your dislike is great.

Well, the original poster asked whether anyone has any opinion on Searle and I gave an opinion. Whether your opinion or mine is reality is irrelevant. Frankly I hate the music, and that goes for Valen also, who also wrote large atonal works. I can't tell whether they are all serial or not because my ears can't pick that out. I know they are all atonal though.

[vandermolen]

I have to admit that I find Searle's music rather turgid but I'm sure that is my loss. I struggle with Frankel but find his music more rewarding.

[Harry]

Well, the original poster asked whether anyone has any opinion on Searle and I gave an opinion. Whether your opinion or mine is reality is irrelevant. Frankly I hate the music, and that goes for Valen also, who also wrote large atonal works. I can't tell whether they are all serial or not because my ears can't pick that out. I know they are all atonal though.

Frankel is not Atonal, and Searle is not either.

And why are you using hate as a word, have you any idea what that means?

[Harry]

I have to admit that I find Searle's music rather turgid but I'm sure that is my loss. I struggle with Frankel but find his music more rewarding.

Just listen to his beautiful Violin concerto  ( Frankel) and then tell me you are unmoved!

[vandermolen]

Just listen to his beautiful Violin concerto  ( Frankel) and then tell me you are unmoved!

OK Harry, you're on!

I have the Violin Concerto at home (In memory of the Six Million?) and I will listen to it again asap and let you know what I think.

[Kullervo]

I guess I will have to pick up the Frankel VC as well!

[PerfectWagnerite]

Frankel is not Atonal, and Searle is not either.

And why are you using hate as a word, have you any idea what that means?

Okay, hate is a bad word, how about I detest Seale's music? Is that better.

Now for the facts, I am just reading the liner note for Searle's 1st and 4th on CPO and it states:

The 12 note row on which the entire work is based, and which is stated in its original form at the onset on the lower strings...blah blah blah

"Row" just means "tone row" and that to me means the work is atonal and possibly serial as well. This has nothing to do with preference, just facts. Am I incorrect?

[not edward]

Okay, hate is a bad word, how about I detest Seale's music? Is that better.

Now for the facts, I am just reading the liner note for Searle's 1st and 4th on CPO and it states:

The 12 note row on which the entire work is based, and which is stated in its original form at the onset on the lower strings...blah blah blah

"Row" just means "tone row" and that to me means the work is atonal and possibly serial as well. This has nothing to do with preference, just facts. Am I incorrect?

Yes, these works use tone rows and are thus serial.

That does not guarantee atonality. It's perfectly possible to use serial technique to write in a tonal manner (for a really blatant example, see late Copland).

[PerfectWagnerite]

Yes, these works use tone rows and are thus serial.

That does not guarantee atonality. It's perfectly possible to use serial technique to write in a tonal manner (for a really blatant example, see late Copland).

Of course there are a few notable exceptions, like Copland, Britten, Stravinsky (and a few others I don't remember right now).

Yes but Searle was a disciple of Webern, not Copland.

[Kullervo]

That does not guarantee atonality. It's perfectly possible to use serial technique to write in a tonal manner (for a really blatant example, see late Copland).

Or Lutosławski's Musique Funebre

[vandermolen]

I think that Joonas Kokkonen is a kind of atonal composer but I really like his music, especially Symphony 4.