CPE Bach (Carl Philipp Emanuel)

Started by rubio, December 27, 2008, 08:33:28 AM

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Josquin des Prez

I had the chance to sample a large amount of his music, and IMHO, his most significant compositions appear to be his concertos and choral works. His symphonies are in the early Mannheim style and frankly they are too modest to bother with. His keyboard music is supposed to be quite experimental but good luck finding a recording that doesn't use a clavichord. Apparently at one point in his career the composer made an appreciatory remark for the instrument and now all the HIP retards think his keyboard music should be played on a toy.

Josquin des Prez

Quote from: Barak on January 27, 2009, 04:31:00 PM
CPE Bach and Boccherini are the greatest musicains between the Bach-Handel-Scarlatti axis and the Haydn-Mozart one.

Erm, Boccherini was born after Haydn. I'd say Gluck was probably the greatest composer of this period. And lets not forget Pergolesi or Mathias Georg Monn, who would have probably developed to be great composers as well had they lived longer.

71 dB

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 04, 2010, 06:24:04 AM
And lets not forget Pergolesi...
Good call. Hasse and maybe Locatelli could be mentioned too.
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Scarpia

This one is awesome, BTW:


Very frustrating that there are not more choices in recordings of the symphonies.  CPO has undertaken to record the complete J.C. Bach Symphonies, but no such committment to CPE, who I like a lot better.

Martin Lind

I think the symphonies WQ 183 are remarkably fresh and I like also the WQ 182.

The best symphonies after Haydn and Mozart? Of course right if you take the best things these composers have written, like especially the late Mozart and Haydn symphonies. But Haydn often bores me when CPE Bach doesn't do that.

The point is still: There is a difference of style between the Viennese classic and CPE Bach. If you expect something like Haydn or Mozart you will be disappointed. You must take the man in his own right, then he is a very interesting composer.

And don't think of this music as "transitional". As mere transition between baroque and classical music. There is a certain style there which is unique, a certain freshness and boldness of expression. This is very interesting music.

Regards
Martin

Scarpia

His symphonies did not thrill me, but I really liked some of the Trio Sonatas.


Brahmsian

Quote from: Scarpia on November 09, 2010, 10:53:01 AM
His symphonies did not thrill me, but I really liked some of the Trio Sonatas.



A few months ago I heard a breathtaking trio sonatas of CPE on the radio.  Can't remember which one, but it was a minor key work, and I rather enjoyed it more than the JSB trio sonatas I listened to the other day.

Scarpia

It might also have been from his release.



by Les Coucous Benevoles.  It's on the Musica Viva label and I think it was a co-production of Canadian Radio.

Brahmsian

Quote from: Scarpia on November 09, 2010, 12:31:46 PM
It might also have been from his release.



by Les Coucous Benevoles.  It's on the Musica Viva label and I think it was a co-production of Canadian Radio.

Probably was exactly that recording, since it was the French-Canadian station I was tuned in.  :)

Scarpia

Quote from: ChamberNut on November 09, 2010, 12:36:42 PM
Probably was exactly that recording, since it was the French-Canadian station I was tuned in.  :)

I have both, but I've only listened to the Canadian one so far, which was very good.  It includes some of the early Trio Sonatas, which were written under J.S. Bach's supervision. 

Gurn Blanston

Am I the only one here that didn't know that CPE Bach wrote some Violin Sonatas?



And good ones too! There are 4 of them on this disk, Wq 76 - 78 and H 545 (I confess to not knowing the H numbers at all, but it is Wq deest). The addition of the violin (which has plenty of obbligato parts) seems to be what it took to get CPE into a jollier mood than I normally seem to get from him.

Edna Stern is playing a very nice sounding Walter reproduction. Amandine Beyer is a first rate fiddler who seems to be under contract with Zig-Zag. I have also her 4 Seasons which is in my Top 5 of those works. Anyway, I am delighted with this disk, wish I had known about it sooner so I would have been enjoying it for longer! :)

8)

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Now playing:
Amandine Beyer (Violin) \ Edna Stern (Fortepiano) - Bach CPE Wq deest Sonata in g for Fortepiano & Violin 1st mvmt - Allegro
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Que

#51
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 27, 2010, 03:53:55 PM
Am I the only one here that didn't know that CPE Bach wrote some Violin Sonatas?



And good ones too! There are 4 of them on this disk, Wq 76 - 78 and H 545 (I confess to not knowing the H numbers at all, but it is Wq deest). The addition of the violin (which has plenty of obbligato parts) seems to be what it took to get CPE into a jollier mood than I normally seem to get from him.

Edna Stern is playing a very nice sounding Walter reproduction. Amandine Beyer is a first rate fiddler who seems to be under contract with Zig-Zag. I have also her 4 Seasons which is in my Top 5 of those works. Anyway, I am delighted with this disk, wish I had known about it sooner so I would have been enjoying it for longer! :)

I was planning to post something about this remarkable disc, but I guess you've beaten me to it, Gurn;D

Absolutely great stuff - original and imaginative music. Difficult to describe - please have a listen, but I thought them quite mature as compositions and forward looking in music-historical terms.Those who are into Mozart's violin sonatas and the likes, needn't hesitate! :) I like both performers very much. Amandine Beyer reminds me somewhat of Anton Steck, a favourite of Gurn and myself, strong projection and a firm tone, though Beyer is a bit less fierce than Steck. My first encounter with Edna Stern, but she is an outright winner: perfect interplay and great fingerwork, provides all kinds of shades and nuances with boldness when called for. I saw a reviewer that wrongly assumed that a piano was used and that the word "fortepianist" in the booklet was mistaken. No mistake, though is seems that the wonderfull sound of the Walter replica fools some and the description of the instrument is indeed hard to find. 8)

A resounding seconding of Gurn's recommendation! :)

Q

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: milk on June 27, 2011, 06:28:55 AM
I've been gaga for Gamba lately. Leaving aside Baroque, here are two recordings I recently purchased that fit into the paramaters of this thread:


Milk,
Thanks for pointing this one out to us. I have been wanting some of this music for a while now, and didn't have a grip on where to go with it. This looks like the perfect starter disk.

As for your Pandolfo question, clearly you have discerned by now that I haven't a clue. :-\

8)
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milk

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on June 27, 2011, 06:41:21 AM
Milk,
Thanks for pointing this one out to us. I have been wanting some of this music for a while now, and didn't have a grip on where to go with it. This looks like the perfect starter disk.

As for your Pandolfo question, clearly you have discerned by now that I haven't a clue. :-\

8)

The Pandolfo recording has Rinaldo Alessandrini on harpsichord (can I restrain myself from this purchase?). The above recording - the one I own - employs a crisp sounding Silbermann fortepiano. Interesting stuff coming out of Italy! 

Que

Quote from: milk on June 27, 2011, 08:07:17 AM
The Pandolfo recording has Rinaldo Alessandrini on harpsichord (can I restrain myself from this purchase?). The above recording - the one I own - employs a crisp sounding Silbermann fortepiano. Interesting stuff coming out of Italy!

The Pandolfo/Alessandrini has been reissued on Brilliant (from Tactus, I believe). It was nice, but I wasn't quite over the moon by it.  ::)

The Problem might be that neither of the distinguished gentlemen has a thing with the early-Classical period. I would expect more from the Ghielmi brothers! :)

Q

milk

Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 27, 2011, 12:08:18 PM
The Pandolfo/Alessandrini has been reissued on Brilliant (from Tactus, I believe). It was nice, but I wasn't quite over the moon by it.  ::)

The Problem might be that neither of the distinguished gentlemen has a thing with the early-Classical period. I would expect more from the Ghielmi brothers! :)

Q

Right. After listening to the Pandolfo samples and getting more into the Ghielmi, I'm inclined to forgo the Pandolfo. The Ghielmi brothers made a fine recording. Not to wander off topic, but Pandolfo has made some interesting baroque recordings . But as for CPE Bach, the Pandolfo recording in the samples sounded a bit fussy. But I could very well change my mind down the road if I decide to explore it more. I love the sound of Ghielmi's Silbermann!   

milk

I don't know what it is about C.P.E Bach...Looking at my computer, I have about 24 hours of his music - including Spanyi (some of the solo and some of the concerto recordings) and, I should mention, the wonderful new Staier recording. I feel like with a lot of other composers I can tell you what it is I enjoy about them. Carl is a mystery to me. I'm still not sure exactly why I keep coming back for more. The Hamburg concertos (I have Van Asperen as well as the new Staier) are a more straightforward kind of pleasure. They're just so inventive and melodic and fun. But so much of his music is denser and harder to explain (in terms of my experience). These are my vague, clumsy, before bedtime thoughts. 

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: milk on June 28, 2011, 05:35:30 AM
I don't know what it is about C.P.E Bach...Looking at my computer, I have about 24 hours of his music - including Spanyi (some of the solo and some of the concerto recordings) and, I should mention, the wonderful new Staier recording. I feel like with a lot of other composers I can tell you what it is I enjoy about them. Carl is a mystery to me. I'm still not sure exactly why I keep coming back for more. The Hamburg concertos (I have Van Asperen as well as the new Staier) are a more straightforward kind of pleasure. They're just so inventive and melodic and fun. But so much of his music is denser and harder to explain (in terms of my experience). These are my vague, clumsy, before bedtime thoughts.

Don'tcha just hate that! :)  It's funny to me, because this particular composer arouses the same feelings in me as in you. I also have a ton of his music and listen to it frequently and at length, but if pressed to explain why, I doubt I could. Or even to pick out a particular piece to represent him. Strange!  :-\

8)
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milk

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on June 29, 2011, 08:33:39 AM
Don'tcha just hate that! :)  It's funny to me, because this particular composer arouses the same feelings in me as in you. I also have a ton of his music and listen to it frequently and at length, but if pressed to explain why, I doubt I could. Or even to pick out a particular piece to represent him. Strange!  :-\

8)

I often wonder what people at the time thought. I mean I get the feeling that there is something really cutting edge about CPE. It seems like his output was enormous...but I could be wrong about that since I don't really know about music history. Anyway, seems like the keyboard concertos are never ending. I like what Spanyi has done with his choice of instruments, both on the solo and concerto recordings. Yeah...CPE kind of baffles me. I can't think of anyone to compare his music to. 

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: milk on June 30, 2011, 12:42:46 AM
I often wonder what people at the time thought. I mean I get the feeling that there is something really cutting edge about CPE. It seems like his output was enormous...but I could be wrong about that since I don't really know about music history. Anyway, seems like the keyboard concertos are never ending. I like what Spanyi has done with his choice of instruments, both on the solo and concerto recordings. Yeah...CPE kind of baffles me. I can't think of anyone to compare his music to.

There really isn't anyone to compare him to, since the similar ones were all his disciples. :)  One thing that has occurred to me is that he has been frequently referred to as a founder of Classical Style, and yet I can't see how. His sonatas are not like any typical classical sonata, and a great deal of his work is really fantasias. The one thing that I can see is in the use of the keyboard, where I think he was a pioneer for all, in that he influenced all subsequent composers in what the possibilities of the keyboard are. Sort of broke the shell there.  :)

8)
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