The Art of Fugue

Started by The Mad Hatter, May 23, 2007, 12:37:26 AM

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Mandryka

#500
Just a thought about Asperen's AoF, though a rather recherché one. Elizabeth Farr's Peter Philips CD does for Peter Philips's music what Asperen does for AoF - she ornaments it to bits. I like Farr's recording too, because I think ornamentation is a nice way of marking the pulse.
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Mandryka

Are there any other recordings of large selections of AoF for four string instruments than these?

Emerson
Fretwork
Italiano
Juliard
Keller
Les Voix Humaines
Modern
Musicarius
Phantasm
Portaland
Quartetto Classico
Sit Fast
Soundiva
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premont

#502
Quote from: Mandryka on May 20, 2022, 04:22:33 AM
Are there any other recordings of large selections of AoF for four string instruments than these?

Emerson
Fretwork
Italiano
Juliard
Keller
Les Voix Humaines
Modern
Musicarius
Phantasm
Portaland
Quartetto Classico
Sit Fast
Soundiva

Ensemble versions of AoF are not my great interest, and of the versions you mention I only know (from listening) the gambe quartet versions and Emerson, Italiano and Juliard and the ones I mention below from the top of my head.

Kölner Violen Consort (suppose you know it)
Roth Quartet
Delmé quartet (haven't heard it)
Bernini quartet (manuscript version and period instruments))
Musica Antiqua Köln, Reinhard Goebel (for the most played OVPP)
Soloists from Collegium Aureum (string quartet with a violone playing 16' parallel with the cello).
Brecon Baroque (with Podger) is also OVPP

Edit: I recall one more for string quartet:

Bell' Arte Ensemble (leader Susanne Lautenbacher)
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Mandryka

#503
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 20, 2022, 05:44:28 AM
Ensemble versions of AoF are not my great interest, and of the versions you mention I only know (from listening) the gambe quartet versions and Emerson, Italiano and Juliard and the ones I mention below from the top of my head.

Kölner Violen Consort (suppose you know it)
Roth Quartet
Delmé quartet (haven't heard it)
Bernini quartet (manuscript version and period instruments))
Musica Antiqua Köln, Reinhard Goebel (for the most played OVPP)
Soloists from Collegium Aureum (string quartet with a violone playing 16' parallel with the cello).
Brecon Baroque (with Podger) is also OVPP

Cheers. I know some of these, I don't know how I forgot Roth and Delmé and and Kölner Violen Consort. The Delmé is enjoyable when they play faster!  I shall listen to Bernini on Qobuz, I was unaware of them.
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Mandryka

#504
By the way I've listened to a lot of these over the past few weeks. None of them are specially imaginative with the articulation or counterpoint, the best I can say is that there is something very distinctive going on with Les Voix Humaines.

That being said I've enjoyed dipping into the introverted, peaceful and expressive Keller and the intense Italiano members version. And some of the others have their moments.
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premont

Quote from: Mandryka on May 20, 2022, 09:19:25 AM
By the way I've listened to a lot of these over the past few weeks. None of them are specially imaginative with the articulation or counterpoint, the best I can say is that there is something very distinctive going on with Les Voix Humaines.

Largely agreed. Of the ones in question I know (see above) I find the Bernini quartet to be the most imaginative.

Quote from: Mandryka
That being said I've enjoyed dipping into the introverted, peaceful and expressive Keller and the intense Italiano members version. And some of the others have their moments.

I think the Italiano members' version is shamelessly extrovert and almost cocksure, but that may be what you call intense.  :)
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Mandryka

#506
Bernini ain't bad at all, thanks for pointing it out. Italiano certainly sound as though they would have been knackered after the performance.
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Mandryka

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Jo498

Is Musica Antiqua/Goebel (Archiv) basically "HIP in string quartet formation" or how do they vary in the ensembles?
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

premont

Quote from: Jo498 on May 27, 2022, 12:11:54 AM
Is Musica Antiqua/Goebel (Archiv) basically "HIP in string quartet formation" or how do they vary in the ensembles?

Yes. A few contrapuncti (and the canons) are played on harpsichords by Andreas Staier and Robert Hill..

The string quartet:
Reinhard Goebel violin
Hajo Bäss violin (or viola when the alto part is to low for a violin)
Karlheinz Steeb viola
Phoebe Carrai cello

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Jo498

thanks, how do they relate/compare to "modern" string quartet performances in that piece?
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mandryka

#511
Quote from: Jo498 on May 27, 2022, 01:06:46 AM
thanks, how do they relate/compare to "modern" string quartet performances in that piece?

They're not as interesting in terms of sonority and articulation as Delian. Not as sweet and pastoral as Delme.
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premont

Quote from: Jo498 on May 27, 2022, 01:06:46 AM
thanks, how do they relate/compare to "modern" string quartet performances in that piece?

A bit faceless I think. On the other hand I'm not particularly keen on MI string quartets in this music. My preferred string quartet version is the recording by the (period instrument) Bernini quartet, though they play the manuscript version and for that reason among other things omit the incomplete four part fugue.
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milk

I find Rubsam's AOF on Lautenwerk very natural sounding. Unlike some of his other stuff on that instrument, there's nothing that jumps out as strange or eccentric or hard to get used to about it - not to me. I even want to say it works especially well on lautenwerk. I think Mandryka wrote that AOF goes best with harpsichord because the jagged nature of the music. That may be but it seems that the lute harpsichord also accommodates 1080 quite well, at least to my ears.

Mandryka

#514
What I want now is AoF played by lute ensemble in the madrigal manner of Rübsam. However nice Keith Hill's lute harpsichord is, it's not as nice for overtones and resonances as a real lute. And I think the fact that two hands are forming the sound on a real lute makes a big difference to what can be done in terms of attacks and other effects. Apparently some lutes aren't even fretted - even better! All those microtones! Actually, even guitar would be good!

It's not so much that I'm feeling down on the harpsichord. It's more that I want to sing a song of praise for lutes and similar instruments.
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milk

Quote from: Mandryka on July 31, 2022, 05:04:24 AM
What I want now is AoF played by lute ensemble in the madrigal manner of Rübsam. However nice Keith Hill's lute harpsichord is, it's not as nice for overtones and resonances as a real lute. And I think the fact that two hands are forming the sound on a real lute makes a big difference to what can be done in terms of attacks and other effects. Apparently some lutes aren't even fretted - even better! All those microtones! Actually, even guitar would be good!

It's not so much that I'm feeling down on the harpsichord. It's more that I want to sing a song of praise for lutes and similar instruments.
That would be interesting and I'm surprised it's not been tried given how much is out there these days. John Paul's lautenwerk is less clean and has slightly more overtones I think. But he never got to AOF and his playing is much more straightforward. Rubsam does a wonderful job bringing an emotional fragility to the music that I don't think I've heard/felt before.

Mandryka

In the booklet essay to Viotta Ensemble's AoF we are told

QuoteWith respect to his Bach arrangement, Jan van Vlijmen says, 'Bach has played an overpowering role in my musical life and work. In a manner of speaking, he is a staple of my musical diet. In my arrangement, I devised a different instrumentation for each contrapunctus (the tutti orchestra made up of all fourteen players occurs only three times - in nos. V, XI and XIX). By using the instru-ments, I wanted to delineate the structure and the development of the musical phrases and lines of Die Kunst der Fuge. The point of this arrangement is in fact the analysis - it can be considered an analytical instrumentation inspired by Anton Webern.

Any thoughts about what the bit I've put in italics could possibly mean?
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Mandryka

What sounds like quite a decent performance from Jean Luc Ho, he may use some organ effects later on, like tremulant. I can feel it coming!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKudkAyIo&ab_channel=RolandLopes

The organ is neo- Gottfried Silberman and is, IMO, rather fab.

https://ligneorguesremarquables.com/en/the-organs/lorgue-de-porrentruy/

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premont

#518
Quote from: Mandryka on February 07, 2023, 06:19:31 AMWhat sounds like quite a decent performance from Jean Luc Ho, he may use some organ effects later on, like tremulant. I can feel it coming!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKudkAyIo&ab_channel=RolandLopes

The organ is neo- Gottfried Silberman and is, IMO, rather fab.

https://ligneorguesremarquables.com/en/the-organs/lorgue-de-porrentruy/



He used tremulant only in one of the Canons. I also appreciate his sparing use of the pedal. But all in all he uses too much reeds, particularly trumpet. I think he began rather inspired with the first contrapuncti but later became more perfunctory and craftsman-like. At times it seemed as if he thought the most of getting finished. But  I think he has the potential of making an interesting recording of the work. Thanks for posting it.
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Mandryka

Quote from: premont on February 07, 2023, 11:52:40 AMHe used tremulant only in one of the Canons. I also appreciate his sparing use of the pedal. But all in all he uses too much reeds, particularly trumpet. I think he began rather inspired with the first contrapuncti but later became more perfunctory and craftsman-like. At times it seemed as if he thought the most of getting finished. But  I think he has the potential of making an interesting recording of the work. Thanks for posting it.

Yes, the one CD I know from him, Sweelinck on claviorganum and spinet, is like that. Long passages of solid academic craftsmanship - and then occasionally moments of real inspired playing. I'm glad to have it though.
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