The Art of Fugue

Started by The Mad Hatter, May 23, 2007, 12:37:26 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

czgirb

For my taste:
* Organ: Walcha (DGG)
* Harpsichord: Gilbert (DGG)
* Piano: Koriolov (Tacet)

Bulldog

Quote from: czgirb on August 23, 2011, 12:12:50 AM
For my taste:
* Organ: Walcha (DGG)
* Harpsichord: Gilbert (DGG)
* Piano: Koriolov (Tacet)


That's very close to my taste except I prefer Tureck slightly to Koroliov.

Mandryka

Quote from: Bulldog on August 24, 2011, 02:10:48 PM
That's very close to my taste except I prefer Tureck slightly to Koroliov.

You're confusing AoF with WTC maybe -- or is there a Tureck AoF that I haven't heard?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Bulldog

Quote from: Mandryka on November 15, 2011, 08:01:08 AM
You're confusing AoF with WTC maybe -- or is there a Tureck AoF that I haven't heard?

My mistake - I was thinking of Nikolayeva's Hyperion recording.

Mandryka

#244
I just discovered this (rather beautiful) track on spotify

http://open.spotify.com/track/4LXkAX4uRjwctPFQXTYK8K

which is  a transcription of the final cpt of  AoF for choir and orchestra,  apparently  by C.P. E. Bach. The performers are the Gesualdo Consort and Harry van der Kamp. From this CD

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: (: premont :) on August 03, 2011, 02:08:09 PM
The problem of the mirror fugues may be solved by playing them on two keyboards, a solution Bach himself hinted at by arranging the three part mirror fugue for two keyboards adding a free fourth part for the fourth hand.


You mean, a duet?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2012, 03:30:43 AM
You mean, a duet?

Yes. And this is how they [the mirror fugues] often are recorded, when harpsichord or piano is used.

All the four part contrapuncti may also be played by four hands, each hand playing one part, whether played on two harpsichords (like Ton Koopman and Tini Mathot) or on two pianos (like Richard Buhlig and Wesley Kuhnle) or on different manuals of an organ (like Pascale Rouet / Jean-Christophe Leclere) or on more organs (like the Wolfgang von Karajan Ensemble), and there is even a recording with two parts played on piano and two parts on organ (Jean-Christophe Geiser organ and Elisabeth Sombart piano - on IFO). 
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on January 09, 2012, 03:30:43 AM
You mean, a duet?

Afterthought:

Not a duet in the traditional sense, as all four parts have got equal importance.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Antoine Marchand

#248
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 24, 2012, 09:00:10 AM
[asin]B0044ZQ8T4[/asin]

A nice and friendly version IMO. Maybe a bit too friendly.

It's an interesting version, very well played, indeed. But it has certain "softness" that constantly has recalled me those paintings of Rubens with nude women of soft flesh and generous rounded parts (curiously, those paintings contain nude people, but hardly are about any essential "nakedness").

I see this version as an exploration of the sensual possibilities of the AoF (I think wind instruments play a very important role in this aspect), very easy to enjoy by a wide range of audience when you forget for one minute the "philosophical" considerations involved here. For instance, personally I consider the AoF is the work which most eloquently has spoken about the Unity in the Occidental music (how all new things come from old, known things), but this version is entirely about the Diversity: contrapuntus 1, string quartet; contrapunctus 2, harpsichord, contrapunctus 3, oboe and tenor oboe, contrapunctus 4, tutti (strings & winds) and so (just to mention the most evident manifestation of this "variety": the instrumentarium). In short, this version could be considered as a sort of perfect opposite to Leonhardt or even to the orchestral Münchinger. 

:)   

Mandryka

#249
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 09, 2012, 11:33:30 AM
Yes. And this is how they [the mirror fugues] often are recorded, when harpsichord or piano is used.

All the four part contrapuncti may also be played by four hands, each hand playing one part, whether played on two harpsichords (like Ton Koopman and Tini Mathot) or on two pianos (like Richard Buhlig and Wesley Kuhnle) or on different manuals of an organ (like Pascale Rouet / Jean-Christophe Leclere) or on more organs (like the Wolfgang von Karajan Ensemble), and there is even a recording with two parts played on piano and two parts on organ (Jean-Christophe Geiser organ and Elisabeth Sombart piano - on IFO).

I've just ordered this -- and his Goldbergs. I can't wait as I find myself enjoying not just his French Suites but also Book 2 of WTC. It surprised me how much I'm liking the Well Tempered Clavier because I'd read a negative review of Book 1. But in some of the pieces of Book 2 I hear a sort of liveliness and lightness  and energy which I find very attractive. 
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Opus106

Regards,
Navneeth

Leon

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 25, 2007, 04:28:30 AM
Try Emerson. I know they usually get a bad rap from me but their style seems to land very well for this piece. They are much more agile then Keller and their texture if very clear as well.

I have been listening to the Emerson Quartet's recording of the Art of Fugue and agree that it is a good SQ version.  I have not done a head-to-head comparison with Fretwork, but I never quite warmed to their version, although I like their Goldberg Variations exceedingly well. 

[asin]B00008O8B3[/asin]
[asin]B00006YYBR[/asin]
[asin]B00585QLWI[/asin]

I suppose I should give Fretwork's AOF another spin today.

:)

Scion7

Leonhardt's on ProArte.

When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Scion7

Quote from: Coopmv on March 06, 2012, 04:47:24 PM
Did Leonhardt actually record for Pro-Arte or is this some re-issue?



The back of the informative 12-page note-insert that came with the set states it was recorded June 1969, and that it is copyrighted by Deutsche-Harmonia Mundi, and licensed under agreement with them.

This issue is from 1981.
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Scion7

#254
Quote from: Coopmv on March 06, 2012, 05:26:16 PM
So the now defunct Pro-Arte was like BC.  I have Leonhardt's Goldberg Variations on Pro-Arte as well ...

          The Oct 1979 issue of Gramophone had this to say about the Harmonia Mundi issue:

BACH. The Art of Fugue, BWV1080. Gustav Leonhardt (harpsichord).
Harmonia Mundi 1C 165 99793-4 (two records, nas, £9.98).

The Art of Fugue was accepted as a keyboard work as soon as it was published just after Bach's death, and only this century has it been argued that because it was published in score with one stave to each part Bach was inviting an ensemble performance by whatever instruments you chose. Indeed several ensemble performances have been recorded, as also some for organ solo. It was also argued from the first, even by the composer's son, C. P. E. Bach, that the work was unfinished, and attempts to complete the final fugue have been made, notably by Tovey.
In a really magnificent sleeve-note Gustav Leonhardt disputes much of he above. He cites several composers of the time who published contrapuntal keyboard music in score to show more clearly what was going on. Nor can this be organ music, for Bach did not provide any pedal parts. He proves with convincing detail that The Art of Fugue can only be harpsichord music. He lists places where a phrase had to be switched by an octave to make it playable by two hands, and where a part which should end in a minim ends with a crotchet to release the hand for something else. And so on—Q.E.D.; this is harpsichord music.
Leonhardt thinks (though he knows he cannot prove) that the final unfinished fugue does not belong, and that it is pure coincidence that The Art of Fugue subject can be made to fit its three themes; it is, after all, a subject that will fit almost anything—it had to be, for
Bach's purposes. Also Bach described this unfinished fugue as for three voices, whereas with The Art of Fugue subject it would have had four. I think the argument can be accepted, though it would be a pity if we were never again to hear that marvellous unfinished fugue.
So Leonhardt omits it, as also "Contrapunctus 13", presumably because he thinks the four-part version of it for two keyboards both sufficient and more interesting. Also he puts No. 4 after No. 1, and relegates the four canons to the fourth and last side. This denies the work a final climax. It will never have occurred to Bach that it needed one; even so, in a radio broadcast it might be best to play just Nos. 1 to 12. And these records certainly must be played. This is the most convincing and profound performance I have ever heard. As you listen you realize to the full what stupendous music this is, ingenious beyond belief yet deeply felt as well. Leonhardt never changes registration in mid-piece. His only quirk is to play the Canon at the octave on a 4ft stop so that it sounds an octave up. He uses a good deal of thoughtful rubato, partly to point an entry, and it is astonishing how much detail one can hear. In No. 6, marked to be played in the French style, all the semiquavers are played in dotted rhythm and the tempo is strict. He is a little on the defensive about the unplayability of the third bar from the end, others having cited it as proof that Bach counted on an ensemble performance, and he justifies himself by pointing to an unplayable bar in the cadenza of the Brandenburg Concerto No. 5, but he might equally have shown that in his harpsichord music Bach's long-held pedal notes are often notional, in the mind as it were. The low D in No. 6 will have ceased to sound long before the bar in question is reached, so there is no point in wanting to hold it down, especially as Bach gives you a chance of reanimating it in the following bar.
You may think at the start that there is too much resonance; as each minim in the subject is played you can still just hear the one before. I can only report that after the first few seconds I never gave the resonance another thought, and ended by thinking the sound very good. The harpsichord is a modern reproduction by Martin Skowroneck of a Dulcken instrument of 1745. I cannot recommend these discs too strongly.
     ~R.F.


When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Scion7

Coopmv - I moved your quotes to this thread - feel free to delete the posts over on the Well-Tempered thread -
apologies for initiating the Leonhardt on the wrong thread - (smack to the forehead!)
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

premont

Quote from: Scion7 on March 06, 2012, 05:37:40 PM
Leonhardt's on ProArte.

Yes, Leonhardt´s second recording (DHM) is also my first choice, when it is about a harpsichord rendering, as I have mentioned above in this very thread.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Marc

Quote from: Scion7 on March 06, 2012, 05:40:41 PMThe Oct 1979 issue of Gramophone had this to say about the Harmonia Mundi issue:

BACH. The Art of Fugue, BWV1080. Gustav Leonhardt (harpsichord).
Harmonia Mundi 1C 165 99793-4 (two records, nas, £9.98).

[....] [Leonhardt] relegates the four canons to the fourth and last side. This denies the work a final climax. It will never have occurred to Bach that it needed one; even so, in a radio broadcast it might be best to play just Nos. 1 to 12. [....]

My guess is, the reviewer means that in a broadcast it's sufficient to play Contrapuncti 1-11, which is, at least to me, more than satisfactory enough as a finished corpus.

Sometimes I even find myself on the idea that the unfinished fugue (deliberately left out in Leonhardt's recording) was just an attempt by Bach to replace CPT 11 as a closure .... and he thought at a certain point nah, it's too much, let's leave it as it is. ;)

Mandryka

#258
I've been  listening to Rubsam's AoF (on Naxos.) I think that expressively it's a wonderful performance. As is often the case with Rubsam's later recordings, there seems to be a story behind the music.

Here are some random notes.

The thing that struck me when I first listened to it is that it's unrelentingly intense, until the Four-part mirror fugue, which is like a moment of peace and tranquillity (the structure reminds me of Strauss's Elektra – with the Four-part mirror fugue corresponding to the Recognition scene.)

Rubsam intersperses the canons with the fugues in quite a usual way, except for the fact that he plays Cpt VIII out of sequence – the performance of cpt VIII is extraordinary – one of the most memorable things in the whole recording.

After the introduction (Cpt I), the following three fugues (Cpt II  to IV) are played jubilantly. The sequence of fugues is interrupted by the Canon all'ottava, which is given a sort of mystical, other worldly registration. There then follows three fugues (Cpt V, VI and VII) which are played very turbulently and very aggressively and un-beautifully. That sequence is, to my ears, simply wonderful – some of the most powerful performances of anything I've ever heard.

The agressive sequence is halted by  another mysical other worldly canon. After that there's a sequence of three fugues (Cpt IX, X, VII) which I find indescribable and fascinating – especially the out of order cpt VIII. The aggressive non-beauty (sorry, I don't want to say "ugly "  because that sounds like a negative, which I don't intend at all) has gone I think, and is replaced by a strength and determination.

The Canon alla Duodecima in Contrapunto alla Quinta ushers in a less weighty feeling, and is immediately followed by the striking peaceful caesura of the Four-part mirror fugue. The Three-part mirror fugue + inversion is joyful and dancing. The whole trip is concluded with an extraordinary ineffable, angelic performance of the Canon per Augmentationem in Contrario Motu.

The incomplete fugue acts like a sort of postlude. Or the music played over the titles at the end of the epic feature film.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Sammy

Quote from: Mandryka on April 27, 2012, 10:30:46 AM

After the introduction (Cpt I), the following three fugues (Cpt II  to IV) are played jubilantly.

Your comment here surprised me.  "Jubilant" might apply to a degree to Cpt IV, but I don't hear it with II and III which are quite severe except for infrequent (and astounding) rays of light.