20th century impressionism

[schweitzeralan]

Is there anyone out there who listens to and heartily appreciates musical impressionism?  I myself don't limit my appreciation of the vast complexities of music across the centuries; however, I tend to prefer early to mid 20th century works.  Not just Debussy, the "progenitor," as it were, but composers perhaps influenced by the French (or Scandinavian) aesthetic.  I listen to many a composer. and my favorites include the following:  Sibelius, Debussy, Scriabin (perhaps not an "impressionist" par SE, but his later works suggest certain tendencies); Joseph Marx; Florent Schmitt; Arnold Bax; John Ireland; Cyril Scott; Ravel; Charles T. Griffes; Arthur Farwell; Madetoja; Vaino Raitio; Howard Hanson; Bowen; Alexander Krein; Suk; Novak; Uno Klami; (some) Enescu; Pingoud; Vaughn Williams (studied a summer with Ravel); plus others. These are just a few of my passionate interest.  Other than those who are professionals or those affiliated with conservatories, I sense very little interest in the hidden pleasures of sensuous, colorful, yet dynamic and consummate music on the part of the general public.

[Dax]

It would be useful to know how you define musical impressionism, given your list of composers.

[snyprrr]

first thing that pops is TAKEMITSU. No? true tone "painting"...calligraphy

Delius?

"impressionistic" music to me means "serene", otherwise i'd have to include the "nature" music of Xenakis.

so...is FELDMAN?

amoungst the "traditional" composers, note that Milhaud's first two quartets sound very much like Deb/Rvl, but it seems that most "impressionists" went on to incorporate ALL the styles that were in the pot in the 1920s.

who REMAINED an "impressionist"?? Dutilleux?

keep in mind that many french composers were of the Franckian/Beethovenian ilk.....ropartz wrote a Gminor quartet in the same year as debussy, and i haven't heard it, but i would venture that it doesn't sound the debussy. does anyone know?

try the Roger-Ducasse quartet No.2 of 1953 (50 minutes!). it is definitely the "Faure quartet No.2".

[some guy]

"impressionistic" music to me means "serene"

Unless your impressions are of a crowded city, or an erupting volcano, or a bloody battle, or...

("Nature music" of Xenakis? To what are you referring??)

I like the definition of impressionism that excludes Debussy (who hated the word applied to his music) and includes Charles Ives.

(Debussy and Ravel in the same breath makes about as much sense as Glass, Riley, Reich in the same breath, i.e., none.)

[snyprrr]

Unless your impressions are of a crowded city, or an erupting volcano, or a bloody battle, or...

("Nature music" of Xenakis? To what are you referring??)[/color]

i don't know if i "quoted" correctly...if there is no quote, then i am referring to the first two sentences of your last post...ending with"to what are you referring"

the impressions of a crowded city, volcano, and battle is EXACTLY the "nature" music of Xenakis i am talking about. listen to "jonchais" (sic)
there is, i believe, a famous quote by milan kundera alluding to the same.

i know i loosely, or inappropriately,  apply the term "impression" to "serenity", it's just a personal catch word i use for music that will sooth my nerves...perhaps "languid" (is that the right word?)...late night music when i don't want any thorns...works by takemitsu and feldman come to mind

briano eno/harold budd?

am i totally off base here?

[snyprrr]

sorry, i didn't "qote" correctly...

[some guy]

"I fell in love with Varese and Xenakis: those pictures of sound-worlds that were objective but not-existent spoke to me of a life freed from human subjectivity, aggresive and burdensome; they spoke of the sweetly non-human beauty of the world before or after mankind moved through it."

If this is the quote you mean, it doesn't appear to support "impressions of a crowded city, volcano, and battle."

Nor does this: "Xenakis opposes the whole of the European history of music. His point of departure is elsewhere; not in an artificial sound isolated from nature in order to express a subjectivity, but in an earthly 'objective' sound, in a mass of sound which does not rise from the human heart, but which approaches us from the outside, like raindrops or the voice of wind."

Jonchaies is certainly a lovely and visceral piece. It's got some of the cluster music of old school Xenakis, but even more of the transparency of later Xenakis, with smoother sound and more "ordinary" orchestral writing. (Still very original and exciting stuff, to be sure!)

I think a lot of people do think of "impressionism" as applied to music as serene and pretty. So you're certainly not off base in that regard. I was just pointing out that one could have impressions that were anything but serene and pretty. And if "impressionism" can be given any sort of descriptive meaning, then certainly Ives was more of an impressionist than any of the other names on this thread so far. (His music includes serene and pretty, too, just by the way.)

Xenakis, though? No. His music is more like nature itself than an impression of it. More like the world itself, natural and artificial, than any impression of it. That's what I think Kundera is saying, too.

[snyprrr]

yes, that's what i meant to say....literal water and rain, and not really "impressions"


don't ask me why, but beethoven sym no6 just popped into my mind...and sym. fantastique.

...and yes, everything you said about ives

but in a zappa moment i'm wondering if Bach was getting musical "impressions" from God, or actual notes, a la the ten commandments. is that a valid question for the purposes of what we're talking about, or does that get into the "does a composer's "person" dictate what kinds of sounds they will "impress" by pen to paper". is that a religious question, haha?

but anyhow, what about SATIE taking musical impressions of statues in the "gymopedes"?

[Grazioso]

Given your interest in impressionism and early- to mid-20th-century works, a couple composers you might want to explore are Bax and Boulanger.

[schweitzeralan]

Given your interest in impressionism and early- to mid-20th-century works, a couple composers you might want to explore are Bax and Boulanger.

Definitly Bax.  Boulanger Concertino is inspired by her teacher Ravel.  Bax remains one of my favorites.  With the exception of some of his chamber works i own everything recorded by Sir Arnold.

[schweitzeralan]

It appears that I lost this posting as I was reparing it.  I simply stated that the term impressionism is an acknowledged European aesthetic movement of the early 20th century art, music and literature. To some extent some vestiges of the style have survived within the modernist, even avant-garde movements of mid and late 20th century.  The late Christopher Palmer wrote an escellent study on impressionism.  In my later years I listen to those composers whose works evince an impressionistic, veiled, mystique, flavored with nuance, color, melodic minor usage et. al.  I believe I've listened to and have become acquainted with most works which harbor this particular aesthetic.  I'm desperately looking for works I don't know.I know all this is strictly personal, as I submerge my self in Bax, Debussy, Sibelius, Scriabin, Mompou, Creston, and many others.  Have a good day all!

[drogulus]

Definitly Bax.  Boulanger Concertino is inspired by her teacher Ravel.  Bax remains one of my favorites.  With the exception of some of his chamber works i own everything recorded by Sir Arnold.

      Boulanger is a favorite of mine, and though her training certainly would place her close to the impressionists, her music tends towards the dramatic, and even sometimes bombastic. That's often true of Bax, too. If you have to categorize these composers they'd be right on the border between impressionism and late romantic/early modern.



   

[snyprrr]

sorry if my posts veered away from the topic.

i HAVE been looking for THEE classic "impressionistic/pastoral" string quartet (after the standard deb/rvl coupling), especially the British quartets.

i remember the delius and howells...how's the moeran? i remember hearing v-w's first quartet after he studied with ravel,...but

and the faure and milhaud's first two....does jongen fit here? i suppose the chausson unfinished quartet comes the closest.

is anyone familiar with the quartets of kochlin? the first two have just been released.

[schweitzeralan]

Indeed I am familiar with Howells, Jongen and Moeran.  Major composers in my opinion.  Am not familiar with the chamber works, as I listen mainly to  orchestral and pianistic works.  Moeran's Symphony in G is a masterpiece.  I just bought Dyson's symphony.  He was a contemporary of Moeran, and some critics claim it is conceived on the same level as Moeran's major work.  As of three listenings on my part, I admit I have to disagree.

[snyprrr]

yea, i'm a string quartet kinda guy...

but hey...can i shake it up? it just occured to me.

GERALD FINZI!!!


anyone???

[schweitzeralan]

yea, i'm a string quartet kinda guy...

but hey...can i shake it up? it just occured to me.

GERALD FINZI!!!


anyone???

Finzi is another British composer of the so called "Bax Generation."
finzi composed, I believe, many vocal works.

[Lethevich]

finzi composed, I believe, many vocal works.

One of the best British composers for voice, no less

His Dies Natalis, Intimations of Immortality, In Terra Pax, Magnificat and smaller songs are of a quality that almost no other British composer of the 20th century has surpassed. His two concerti (clarinet, cello) are also rather wonderful, although not particularly impressionist...

[Ten thumbs]

"impressionistic" music to me means "serene",

This is perhaps right but it rules out Debussy at once. There is nothing serene about La Mer, for instance. This work belongs to the same style as Le Sacre du Printemps. I associate these pieces with their fluid movement with Van Gogh with his strong wavy lines and spirals. This is the very antithesis of Impressionism.
I find it difficult to name a composer because the fact that he or she has written a serene piece or two is insufficient to categorize them as impressionist. I think we are looking for relatively static music without rapid mood (ie distant key) changes. Possibly some Satie or Mompou.

[Grazioso]

as impressionist. I think we are looking for relatively static music without rapid mood (ie distant key) changes. Possibly some Satie or

Though that could take one into the realm of the sort of "mystic minimalism" produced by Arvo Pärt or works like Pettersson's 7th symphony, which largely eschews sudden shifts in mood for slow organic growth but would hardly be classified as impressionist by most listeners.

[schweitzeralan]

This is perhaps right but it rules out Debussy at once. There is nothing serene about La Mer, for instance. This work belongs to the same style as Le Sacre du Printemps. I associate these pieces with their fluid movement with Van Gogh with his strong wavy lines and spirals. This is the very antithesis of Impressionism.
I find it difficult to name a composer because the fact that he or she has written a serene piece or two is insufficient to categorize them as impressionist. I think we are looking for relatively static music without rapid mood (ie distant key) changes. Possibly some Satie or Mompou.

Definitely Mompou.