Daniel Jones(1912-93)-a prolific Welsh symphonist

[Mountain Goat]

Incidentally,off topic,I know,but I am now a member of the 'Art Music Forum'! (I just 'bumped into' Dundonnell there,a little while ago!)

I've just joined that forum too, mainly to avail myself of the British music downloads which were previously on unsungcomposers. I was worried they might be gone for ever so it was a relief to find them there! I can now continue my (very enjoyable) journey through Jones' symphonies (see what I did there - thread now back on topic  ). The next step (when my next pay cheque arrives) is to get those 2 Lyrita CDs to complete the set.

And what about the string quartets, has anyone heard those? The Chandos 2-CD set seems to be out of print and Amazon sellers are asking for silly money 

[cilgwyn]

Thank you,for that! My suppers on now,so......oops.off topic,again! Seriously,you won't regret buying those! I remember getting the original Lps out of the library. I never forget them! And I'm not referring to the pops and clicks! They are impressive performances,even if they're old! A pity Bryden Thomson died before his time (as they say). He was an outspoken admirer of Daniel Jones & when he died the main hope for any further recordings,very possibly,died with him! (Hopefully,someone else will come along & take up his cause!)
As to the string quartets. I believe you can still download them from the Chandos 'shop'. Not quite the same,but it's something!

[Mountain Goat]

Well I said I'd wait till I get paid, but somehow while my mind was elsewhere my hand controlling the mouse seems to have gone and ordered those CDs already, plus the CD of Hoddinott's symphonies 2, 3 & 5 thrown in for good measure 

As to the string quartets. I believe you can still download them from the Chandos 'shop'. Not quite the same,but it's something!

Good to know I can still get them, though that would involve breaking the habit of a lifetime and actually paying for a download! I'm old-fashioned, I don't feel right paying for something which has no physical presence  Maybe I'll leave it a little longer, and keep checking Amazon to see if a copy pops up for a semi-reasonable price - that strategy worked for the similarly unavailable EMI set of Brian symphonies 7-9 & 31.

[cilgwyn]

Old fashioned? Do you have a dolby cassette deck too?!!! Nice to 'meet' someone who still cashes cheques,anyway!
Yes,it IS hard to resist! I saw that Groves 'Mass of Life',the other day (as you may know!) I've been looking for it for ages! The prices sellers asked have been sky high! Anyone would think Charles Groves had signed them himself!!! And it only came to £11.26! It is like mint!!!
Going back to the topic! Those Daniel Jones Lyrita cds are worth their weight in gold. Well,almost! I'm not so sure about the choral work,included. I quite like it,but it's Daniel Jones the symphonist who does it for me! Maybe,I'll have another go! You may feel differently!

[Mountain Goat]

Old fashioned? Do you have a dolby cassette deck too?!!! Nice to 'meet' someone who still cashes cheques,anyway!

Well I have a tape deck in my car, and still listen to vinyl occasionally. But I don't cash cheques though, "pay cheque" just has a nice ring to it! Sorry to shatter your illusions 

Anyway, I very much look forward to those CDs. As for the choral work - I rather liked that cantata "Come my way" which was broadcast on Radio 3 last year, so we'll see...

[cilgwyn]

I need to have another go at the choral works,when I'm in the right mood for them. As to my cheque book,I DID actually use it recently. It had been such a long time,for one brief moment,I couldn't remember how to write it! It all came back to me,then. Except the money,of course!
I actually bought a new dolby cassette deck about a year ago. I thought I'd buy one while I still could. I use it now & again,to record off the radio & now the loft insulation has been installed I must get around to putting up that fm stereo aerial that's been leaning against the living room wall for months!

  Meanwhile,back in the twenty first century...........I wonder if there are any record labels out there who are,unbeknown to us,contemplating a Daniel Jones cd release?

[Lilas Pastia]

The quartets are a great corpus of works. I've been  the happy owner of the cd set for a few years . IMO they belong to the half-dozen best series of chamber music composed in the second half of the last century.

[cilgwyn]

The quartets are a great corpus of works. I've been  the happy owner of the cd set for a few years . IMO they belong to the half-dozen best series of chamber music composed in the second half of the last century.

What a lucky man! As rare as hens teeth now....and you can probably get those on ebay! Downloads are allright,but they're not the same!
Shame on Chandos for not reissuing them! Bryden Thomson's wonderful,underrated Bax cycle (more Baxian than Handley overrated cycle imho) gets the same treatment! The rotters!
  Hopefully,we can look forward to allot of interesting discussions about this marvellous composer on 'The Art Music Forum'!

[cilgwyn]

After my Delius sessions (Koanga,The Magic Fountain,Song of the high hills) I felt like a really good symphony. I am now listening to the AMF downloads of Daniel Jones's symphonies 2 & 3. I can't believe how impressive these unrecorded,ignored (even here in Wales ) symphonies are. Marvellous! We get Rachmaninov & Glazunov symphonies from the BBCNOW,but no Daniel Jones symphonies! What a strange world! After Havergal Brian,I find him one of the most absorbing British (albeit,WELSH!) symphonists,I know. Very,very satisfying to listen to. Like Brian his music has a thorny exterior,but it has a strong lyrical vein & his orchestration is varied & colourful. At times almost romantic,the more you listen the more you find. Like Brian at his best,I think you could go on listening to this music,over & over again & always find something new.

[cilgwyn]

Of the two,I suppose the Second (if I have to choose) is the most immeadiately appealing. Right from it's haunting opening it grabs & holds you're attention all the way to the end. Despite a superficially thorny exterior,this is a very approachable symphony. Indeed,very possibly,the most immeadiately appealing of the entire cycle. Chock full of brilliant,glittering orchestration;in it's steely,granitic way,this is colourful,at times romantic music which evokes all kinds of images of shimmering seascapes and cloud flecked landscapes. One of the most absorbing British (WELSH! ) symphonies I have heard,which makes it all the more astonishing that a symphonist of this stature is ignored by our so called BBC National Symphony orchestra of Wales! So much for devolution! Maybe,they should be fined under the trades description act? But seriously,it IS very annoying!

The third symphony is in many ways every bit as absorbing. Less immeadiately approachable,but certainly not in any sense,difficult;this is Daniel Jones's muse wearing a much craggier,astringent,granitic exterior. In that sense,I suppose one could argue that intellectually it's even more interesting,because it's simply a harder nut to crack! As Brian enthusiasts will know,some of his later,less superficially appealing symphonies are actually some of the most intriguing of the lot. In that sense,there is the same fascination here of gradually unlocking the secrets within & the feeling of satisfaction this ultimately evokes. At the same time,as in Brian's earlier,large scale symphonies,there is a romantic streak,which is probably why one of the most potent images evoked by this symphony,is one of welsh seascapes.

[cilgwyn]

On October 6th,the BBC National Orchestra of Wales will be performing the Symphony No 11 by Daniel Jones,at the Brangwyn Hall,Swansea. Hopefully this will be broadcast!
More later....as it's time for bed!!!!

[Lilas Pastia]

After my Delius sessions (Koanga,The Magic Fountain,Song of the high hills) I felt like a really good symphony. I am now listening to the AMF downloads of Daniel Jones's symphonies 2 & 3. I can't believe how impressive these unrecorded,ignored (even here in Wales ) symphonies are. Marvellous! We get Rachmaninov & Glazunov symphonies from the BBCNOW,but no Daniel Jones symphonies! What a strange world! After Havergal Brian,I find him one of the most absorbing British (albeit,WELSH!) symphonists,I know. Very,very satisfying to listen to. Like Brian his music has a thorny exterior,but it has a strong lyrical vein & his orchestration is varied & colourful. At times almost romantic,the more you listen the more you find. Like Brian at his best,I think you could go on listening to this music,over & over again & always find something new.

My turn to be jealous ! I have only the two Lyritas of 4, 6-9. Where ARE thos AMF downloads ?

[Albion]

Where ARE thos AMF downloads ?

The archive which I maintain is now here, along with many other recordings (and members) formerly at another site ...

http://artmusic.smfforfree.com/

[cilgwyn]

My turn to be jealous ! I have only the two Lyritas of 4, 6-9. Where ARE thos AMF downloads ?

Ooh,nice to be able to make someone feel jealous! Wow! You're in for a treat! There's 'a whole lot of' Daniel Jones there!!!

[Mountain Goat]

I'm back now after a week walking and camping in the mountains of Snowdonia, and am pleased to see so much activity on the thread of one who is fast becoming one of my favourite composers!

On October 6th,the BBC National Orchestra of Wales will be performing the Symphony No 11 by Daniel Jones,at the Brangwyn Hall,Swansea.

Great news! I may well go to that, as Swansea isn't too far from me, and the rest of the programme looks good too - Elgar's cello concerto and Vaughan Williams' London Symphony (more details here).

The quartets are a great corpus of works. I've been  the happy owner of the cd set for a few years . IMO they belong to the half-dozen best series of chamber music composed in the second half of the last century.

Glad to hear that as I've just ordered it from an Amazon Marketplace seller, the price having dropped a fair bit - still a bit steep but if these quartets are as good as the symphonies it will be money well spent!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: cilgwyn on 12-09-2012, 17:18:34

Of the two,I suppose the Second (if I have to choose) is the most immeadiately appealing. Right from it's haunting opening it grabs & holds you're attention all the way to the end. Despite a superficially thorny exterior,this is a very approachable symphony. Indeed,very possibly,the most immeadiately appealing of the entire cycle. Chock full of brilliant,glittering orchestration;in it's steely,granitic way,this is colourful,at times romantic music which evokes all kinds of images of shimmering seascapes and cloud flecked landscapes. One of the most absorbing British (WELSH! ) symphonies I have heard,which makes it all the more astonishing that a symphonist of this stature is ignored by our so called BBC National Symphony orchestra of Wales! So much for devolution! Maybe,they should be fined under the trades description act? But seriously,it IS very annoying!



I have been listening to the Second Symphony multiple times these past few days - I completely agree with your analysis and verdict, cilgwyn. I liked it at once, as is recorded in this thread, but coming back to it, it is even better than I thought. It deserves repeated hearings, because it is filled to overflowing with ideas, too many to take in at once. As with Brian, you have to learn to understand how the music 'goes'. Once you have cracked that, the music speaks directly, and with great force and beauty.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

P.S. I can detect only two, very slight influences - Sibelius (one passage reminiscent of the Fifth) and Vaughan Williams (oompah bass, Fourth). But Daniel Jones is his own man. He is freer than Simpson, whose stringency can be a bit stifling.

[Dundonnell]

Good Gracious

You have succeeded in impressing Johan with you eloquent description   Well done   And now he is impressed by the music itself. Excellent

One of the points about the Jones symphonies is that they do really form a cogent cycle and that they should be listened to and studied as such, The same, obviously, applies to composers like Brian, Rubbra, Holmboe, Simpson.

It is ironic that Mark Morris(he who has little time for Simpson or Malcolm Arnold) in his Dictionary of Twentieth Century composers stated that Jones's significance would only increase over time   Not much sign of that at present although I would agree that he is the composer who, probably, is most in need of rediscovery. Unfortunately the centenary has come and gone without Chandos or Dutton evincing any interest

I had such hopes whilst Hickox was at the helm of the BBC NOW but Thomas Sondergard    More likely to be wanting to make a name for himself on the international stage.
That is the trouble with British orchestras appointing young or youngish foreign conductors. They are looking-understandably-to make a reputation and then move onwards and upwards. Conductors like Groves, Del Mar, Thomson, Handley were quite content to remain here and conduct regional orchestras and to conduct as much British music as possible.

[Mountain Goat]

The cello concerto is being broadcast tomorrow afternoon on Radio 3:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02x98z0

I assume this is the performance that was given in St Asaph Cathedral in September 2012. I was at this concert - quite a distance to travel but worth it as Daniel Jones' music is performed about as often as Havergal Brian's. 
In the interval I overheard many positive comments about the piece, so hopefully Jones has gained some new fans as a result.

[kafkaschimp]

For anyone who is interested, I have recordings (off air, live) of Daniel Jones Symphonies 10, 11, and 12 (all premiere performances) and the Sinfonietta.

I also have a recording of the premiere (only performance?) of the Oboe Concerto, commissioned for the Gower Festival by a small local radio station, who supplied me with a tape shortly after the performance. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't another copy in existence, unless they also supplied the Welsh Music Centre - but there is no mention of it in their archive search.

If anyone would like private copies of these, let me know at mmorris@incentre.net

I also have a copy of the extensive essay I wrote about Daniel Jones' music for the National Concert Hall of Wales' Daniel Jones Memorial Concert programme booklet, shortly after he died, and if anyone wants a photocopy of that, let me know.

mmorris@incentre.net


Mark Morris
University of Alberta
Edmonton
Alberta
Canada