What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

Started by Bonehelm, May 24, 2007, 08:52:55 AM

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Mandryka

Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 13, 2019, 07:48:05 PM

They also don't work effectively in the corners of every room

That's interesting, I've always been tempted by corner Tannoys because I would like speakers which work in corners to replace my electrostatics,  and classic Tannoys though expensive, are a good investment because of demand in the Far East. But what you say makes me think I should avoid them.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

dissily Mordentroge

#1601
Quote from: Mandryka on December 13, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
That's interesting, I've always been tempted by corner Tannoys because I would like speakers which work in corners to replace my electrostatics,  and classic Tannoys though expensive, are a good investment because of demand in the Far East. But what you say makes me think I should avoid them.
The enclosure designs are in the public domain. If you know a cabinet maker able to handle angles other than 90 deg the drivers are available.
The kinds of rooms where they fail to function properly in corners are where those corners are so far apart the stereo image ends up with a gap in the middle.
Here's a simpler design not requiring corner placement.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diy_tannoy_horn_e.html
If your room isn't gigantic these will provide you with more than sufficient bass IF you don't use an underpowered valve amp.
Corner horns as designed originally by Tannoy are very complex constructions only the most skilled cabinet makers should tackle.
http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Speakers-Horns-Parts-Stands/Tannoy/GRF-Corner-Horn/CAD-CNC-plans-and-files/86900

https://www.hilberink.nl/speaker.htm

However, my advice is if you're thinking along these lines be aware there are many traps for beginners. An alternative would be to buy a pair of middle of the range (top if you can afford them ) KEF dual concentric speakers and add a sub-woofer later on.(Two would be the best way to go though) Run side to side with Tannoys I suggest the age of the Tannoy design is audible. The Tannoys are not unpleasant but certainly coloured in the mid-bass. As you're in London you're in the best location to hunt down a pair of used KEF LS 50's or similar.
https://www.whathifi.com/kef/ls50/review

dissily Mordentroge

#1602
One attitude expressed on other threads here drives me insane. This idea  a valid opinion can be given, of say, the correct choice of organ stops heard via low fidelity audio system is so illogical I've given up trying to explain the delusion. If they imagine audio equipment need not be of a certain standard to actually hear subtle differences (actually even profound differences) between a Schnitger organ and a modern Rieger organ why do they think centuries of art, craft and science are needed to design and construct these instruments themselves?  Something doesn't add up.
As to comparing and making judgements of recordings of complex orchestral forces without being able to hear what's actually on those CD's/ downloads etc I'm amazed such selective denial can be manifested by otherwise apparently intelligent individuals.
OK, music can be enjoyed on inferior (term chosen deliberately) equipment, yes it can. This however does not give the listener an open enough window onto a performance to make valid judgements of a recordings quality, let alone other musical details such as dynamic contrasts etc. To blindly accept such evaluations as reliable risks disappointment. The problem has become exacerbated since printed magazines such as Gramophone are less often consulted by potential customers who now give credence to amateur reviews they dig up on the web . And yes, I'm throwing a rock into a wasps nest deliberately .
I confess however I've been as guilty of this stupidity myself by purchasing recordings based on how they sound on a sites such as Youtube. Often put there by amateurs and/or subjected to MP 3 compression etc this is another risky methodology.

I suppose though it's all an improvement on the days when I used to audition LP's in record retailers who invariably played them on the worst imaginable gear that not only masked faults and strangled musicality but through the use of damaged styli damaged the LP you were about to take home.

dissily Mordentroge

Quote from: Mandryka on December 13, 2019, 11:05:11 PM
That's interesting, I've always been tempted by corner Tannoys because I would like speakers which work in corners to replace my electrostatics,  and classic Tannoys though expensive, are a good investment because of demand in the Far East. But what you say makes me think I should avoid them.
Just noticed your mention of electrostatics. If these are any of QUAD's in decent condition you're going to find the mid range on Tannoy's very crude by comparison. Mind you, you will no longer have to sit rigidly in the 'sweet spot' to avoid the stereo image falling apart. Again I'd suggest KEF LS 50's as their mids are close to an equal of electrostatics with much clearer highs and don't fall apart when things go really loud. I've lived with a number of QUADs and although finding them very musical I found myself restricting my listening to smaller forces. I never managed to get sub-woofers to blend seamlessly with them either.

71 dB

Quote from: Ratliff on December 13, 2019, 08:22:15 PM
I was an NAD enthusiast back in the day when they made components which were simple and elegant in design but had high quality circuitry. My respect for NAD ended when I got an A/V receiver, I think a T761, probably the precursor to your model. After a short time it seemed to develop a DC bias in the output stage (when I turned it on I noticed low frequency driver cones suddenly jump to a constant offset from resting position, suggesting a DC current running through them). Then it started throwing thermal faults. By then it was out of warranty and I vaguely remember heaving it into a trash dumpster.

A lot of people say they are done with NAD, but somehow the company is still in the business. I have had my problems too, just a few years ago with my C 565BEE CD-player, but now the player has been functioning as it should. I think home theatre sound when it "arrived" in the 90's was a shock to NAD that had been the "king" of affordable two channel audio, but it seems they have adapted and learned how to do things.

Quote from: Ratliff on December 13, 2019, 08:22:15 PMNow I have a Marantz 2 channel power amp and a nice A/V amp from Yamaha, which is way cheaper than anything from NAD, is easy to use and sounds great.

I still run my headphones through my old, old NAD 1130 pre-amp, mostly for sentimental reasons.



Such an elegant piece of iron!. I've been running it since the 80's and it still works like a dream.

So do you have separate systems/speakers for 2 channel audio (Marantz) and multichannel audio (Yamaha)?

Do you know what's the output impedance of the NAD 1130 headphone output?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

dissily Mordentroge

Quote from: 71 dB on December 15, 2019, 03:46:22 AM

Do you know what's the output impedance of the NAD 1130 headphone output?
Listed on the web as 120 Ohms BUT be warned. NAD is one of those companies whose small print informs us. 'The manufacturer reserves the right to alter specifications without notice'

Daverz

Quote from: 71 dB on December 15, 2019, 03:46:22 AM
A lot of people say they are done with NAD, but somehow the company is still in the business. I have had my problems too, just a few years ago with my C 565BEE CD-player, but now the player has been functioning as it should. I think home theatre sound when it "arrived" in the 90's was a shock to NAD that had been the "king" of affordable two channel audio, but it seems they have adapted and learned how to do things.

So do you have separate systems/speakers for 2 channel audio (Marantz) and multichannel audio (Yamaha)?

Do you know what's the output impedance of the NAD 1130 headphone output?

I would suggest a dedicated headphone amp.  Doesn't have to run you over 100 Euro for near state-of-the-art.  See

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-index-of-audio-hardware-reviews.8184/

for reviews and measurements of various headphone amps and DAC/headphone amps.

Ratliff

Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 15, 2019, 04:37:07 PM
Listed on the web as 120 Ohms BUT be warned. NAD is one of those companies whose small print informs us. 'The manufacturer reserves the right to alter specifications without notice'

I've had this amp since 1987, if I remember correctly. I don't think the warning means NAD techs will sneak into your house in the middle of the night and swap out resisters. :)

dissily Mordentroge

Quote from: Ratliff on December 15, 2019, 06:51:23 PM
I've had this amp since 1987, if I remember correctly. I don't think the warning means NAD techs will sneak into your house in the middle of the night and swap out resisters. :)
No, but it does mean different production runs may have different values without the published values being updated.
As to having an NAD tech sneak into my house in the middle of the night, I'd give him more than resistors to play with.  :P

dissily Mordentroge

#1609
Quote from: Daverz on December 15, 2019, 05:26:34 PM

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-index-of-audio-hardware-reviews.8184/
for reviews and measurements of various headphone amps and DAC/headphone amps.
This is a wonderful resource for those who can interpret the test results. Thanks for posting it. I don't know how I've never encountered it previously over the decades.However I noticed their test methodology on the Nakamichi 'Dragon' was anything but scientific.
I still have one, and a tame Nakamichi technician ( a rare beast these days) that runs to original specification (the deck that is, not the tech). All three heads and the transport mechanism were however replaced with new parts over ten years ago. And yes, I still use it with metal tapes,especially to confuse audiophools they're listening to a state of the art digital source.

Daverz

Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 15, 2019, 07:00:20 PM
This is a wonderful resource for those who can interpret the test results. Thanks for posting it. I don't know how I've never encountered it previously over the decades.However I noticed their test methodology on the Nakamichi 'Dragon' was anything but scientific.

Looking at that thread, some of the other members there agree, though I don't see anyone putting up measurements.

All moot now as a cheap ADC will vastly outperform it.

dissily Mordentroge

#1611
Quote from: Daverz on December 15, 2019, 08:41:42 PM
Looking at that thread, some of the other members there agree, though I don't see anyone putting up measurements.

All moot now as a cheap ADC will vastly outperform it.
True but like some silly old fart hanging onto a vintage MG sports car I hang onto mine.
It's intersting too when children visit and ask 'What's that thing' . For some reason they think it's very ingenious.

71 dB

Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 15, 2019, 04:37:07 PM
Listed on the web as 120 Ohms BUT be warned. NAD is one of those companies whose small print informs us. 'The manufacturer reserves the right to alter specifications without notice'

Ok, that's the (stupid) "standard", but many headphones require lower output impedance, some as low as 10 Ω! Too high output impedance causes problems such as frequency response error, distortion and uncontrolled sound due to lack of adequate damping. However, many headphones work just fine with 120 Ω output impedance (those with high impedance or/and flat impedance curve), but not all!

Quote from: Ratliff on December 15, 2019, 06:51:23 PM
I've had this amp since 1987, if I remember correctly. I don't think the warning means NAD techs will sneak into your house in the middle of the night and swap out resisters. :)

HAH!  ;D  ;D  ;D
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

dissily Mordentroge

Quote from: 71 dB on December 16, 2019, 04:40:43 PM
Ok, that's the (stupid) "standard", but many headphones require lower output impedance, some as low as 10 Ω! Too high output impedance causes problems such as frequency response error, distortion and uncontrolled sound due to lack of adequate damping. However, many headphones work just fine with 120 Ω output impedance (those with high impedance or/and flat impedance curve), but not all!
Or you could spend silly money on something like a Manley Audio earphone amp which includes variable output impedances switchable between Low 12-50 Ohm, Mid 50-200 Ohm and High 200-600 Ohms.
https://www.manley.com/hifi/mabhpa

71 dB

Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 16, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Or you could spend silly money on something like a Manley Audio earphone amp which includes variable output impedances switchable between Low 12-50 Ohm, Mid 50-200 Ohm and High 200-600 Ohms.
https://www.manley.com/hifi/mabhpa

Or you can build a $50 DIY headphone adapter including a crossfeeder and output impedance of 1 Ω. That's what I did.  0:)

Even cheaper solution to deal with the output impedance is to make your DIY headpgone extension cable with say 10 Ω resistors connecting the signal to ground lowering the effective output seen by the headphones (however this, lowers volume level a lot).
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

dissily Mordentroge

Quote from: 71 dB on December 16, 2019, 05:56:25 PM
Or you can build a $50 DIY headphone adapter including a crossfeeder and output impedance of 1 Ω. That's what I did.  0:)

Even cheaper solution to deal with the output impedance is to make your DIY headpgone extension cable with say 10 Ω resistors connecting the signal to ground lowering the effective output seen by the headphones (however this, lowers volume level a lot).
Indeed but I prefer the audiosnob approach. An addiction I blame my late Uncle for.

71 dB

Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 16, 2019, 07:16:21 PM
Indeed but I prefer the audiosnob approach. An addiction I blame my late Uncle for.

The only addiction I have to blame my late uncle for is Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. In Finland you can find those in only some places and the price is about 3 times the prices in the US. The irony is in general Finnish (European for that matter) chocolate is superior to American chocolate.

Being an audiosnob is dangerous and addictions aren often harmful. It's a fine line of having great sound in sane ways without crossing the line of lunacy were you have your $2000 speaker cables on wooden blocks (cherry tree of something like that) to have "airy" sound... ...my education in the field of electric engineering/acoustics gives me some kind of protection against severe audiosnobbery.

The point was in products such as NAD 1130 which otherwise may have great performance are somewhat compromised when it comes to the headphone output - it can be surprisingly bad when used with certain headphone models. I have noticed that in some of their newer products NAD has lower heaphone output impedance (68 Ω, 10 Ω and even 8 Ω) so in some ways this issue has been aknowledged.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Ratliff

Quote from: 71 dB on December 17, 2019, 03:11:27 AM
The only addiction I have to blame my late uncle for is Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. In Finland you can find those in only some places and the price is about 3 times the prices in the US. The irony is in general Finnish (European for that matter) chocolate is superior to American chocolate.

That is a huge generalization The mass market food here is probably worse than the mass market food in Europe, but the best food here is as good as or better than anything made anywhere in the world. My peanut butter cup addiction is "Justin's," based in Boulder, Colorado. My chocolate of choice these days is TCHO, based in Berkeley, California. The latter is better than any Swiss or Belgian chocolate I have ever had.

71 dB

#1618
Quote from: Ratliff on December 17, 2019, 07:15:16 AM
That is a huge generalization The mass market food here is probably worse than the mass market food in Europe, but the best food here is as good as or better than anything made anywhere in the world. My peanut butter cup addiction is "Justin's," based in Boulder, Colorado. My chocolate of choice these days is TCHO, based in Berkeley, California. The latter is better than any Swiss or Belgian chocolate I have ever had.

My "opinion" is based on the opinions of Americans who taste Finnish chocolate (especially from Fazer brand). For me that chocolate is "normal" good stuff as I have eaten it all my life, but for many foreigners it's something special. Go figure...

Living in Finland I have never heard of Justin's or TCHO. Perhaps those are the best chocolate in the World, what do I know...  ::)
Similarly, what Europe has to offer is not limited to Swiss and Belgian chocolate, so keep that in mind.

I was talking about chocolate, maybe candies too. Those seem to be of high quality in Finland (althou people outside the Nordic countries struggle with salty liquorice aka 'salmiakki '  ;D ) Food is another issue. I believe there's delicious food everywhere in the World, just different. In Finland foreigners are often blown away by salmon soup 'lohikeitto ' and Finnish cinnamon rolls 'korvapuusti '.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Ratliff

Quote from: 71 dB on December 17, 2019, 09:30:06 AM
My "opinion" is based on the opinions of Americans who taste Finnish chocolate (especially from Fazer brand). For me that chocolate is "normal" good stuff as I have eaten it all my life, but for many foreigners it's something special. Go figure...

Living in Finland I have never heard of Justin's or TCHO. Perhaps those are the best chocolate in the World, what do I know...  ::)
Similarly, what Europe has to offer is not limited to Swiss and Belgian chocolate, so keep that in mind.

I was talking about chocolate, maybe candies too. Those seem to be of high quality in Finland (althou people outside the Nordic countries struggle with salty liquorice aka 'salmiakki '  ;D ) Food is another issue. I believe there's delicious food everywhere in the World, just different. In Finland foreigners are often blown away by salmon soup 'lohikeitto ' and Finnish cinnamon rolls 'korvapuusti '.

My wife has family in Finland, who she has visited often in the past. She says she has had Fazar chocolate and it is nice, but rather generic. She described it as the Finnish version of Hershey's. Looking at the web site, it seems a notch or two above Hershey. That tends to confirm my impression, that mass market stuff in Europe is better than in the U.S., although the U.S. has the greatest variety available, including very good stuff.

My favorite European chocolate products are Anthon Berg Fruit and Marzipan candies, and Niederegger Marzipan.