Author Topic: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?  (Read 444803 times)

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Offline hvbias

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2020 on: September 22, 2022, 03:05:48 PM »
Again, how do you know

It is always nice to see passionate audiophile types go on about things no one cares about, like horns.

As opposed to the ignorant that speak as an authority on a subject that they possess barely any understanding of? Someone that just learned about Floyd Toole last week is not someone I'm too keen on taking seriously, doubly so someone that is so eager to arrogantly double down on misinformation.

Actually what the hell, I'll troll through some of the patents:

https://patents.justia.com/patent/4685532

Don Keele seemed to be involved in some of the work at Electro-Voice, though he has now moved on to curved CBT arrays which control more of the vertical directivity.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline Todd

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2021 on: September 22, 2022, 03:19:59 PM »
Audiophilia has many shamans who inspire great devotion.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Offline Irons

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2022 on: September 23, 2022, 12:15:49 AM »
Again, how do you know

It is always nice to see passionate audiophile types go on about things no one cares about, like horns.


I care about horns, I have a pair (Tannoy Duel Concentric). Not perfect but what speaker is. Horns are not the most accurate but sound nice in a big room. Flea-power drives them and as hvbias has said already directionally is outstanding.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline aligreto

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2023 on: September 23, 2022, 12:46:14 AM »
I also care about horns and I would like to own a pair. However, I would have to swap my car plus a lot of other things to own the pair that I want!  ;D
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline Todd

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2024 on: September 23, 2022, 04:27:09 AM »
Not perfect but what speaker is.

There is no such thing.  One must choose the imperfections one prefers.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Offline Irons

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2025 on: September 23, 2022, 06:30:07 AM »
I also care about horns and I would like to own a pair. However, I would have to swap my car plus a lot of other things to own the pair that I want!  ;D

Not just down to price, Fergus. Horns by nature are big. I had a pair of Impulse H2's worse then the pic below as mine were all black. It was like two upturned coffins in room corners. The wife hated them and they had to go.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Fëanor

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2026 on: September 23, 2022, 07:26:06 AM »
...
A properly designed amp generates so little distortion (when driven at power levels it can easily handle) that nobody can hear it, while speakers can easily generate audible distortion when pushed a little bit, especially at low frequencies. The system of amp + cable + speaker can have an effect* on the sound if there is mismatch. It is possible you have heard something like this, but generally it is wise to assume most of the differences you think you hear are a product of placebo and are likely to vanish in proper listening tests.
...

The placebo effect is a plausible explanation for perceived differences in amplifier sound -- except when what you hear is different than what you were expecting.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2027 on: September 23, 2022, 08:16:23 AM »
The placebo effect is a plausible explanation for perceived differences in amplifier sound -- except when what you hear is different than what you were expecting.

How often does that happen compared to people hearing what they were expecting?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Fëanor

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2028 on: September 24, 2022, 03:09:57 AM »
The placebo effect is a plausible explanation for perceived differences in amplifier sound -- except when what you hear is different than what you were expecting.

How often does that happen compared to people hearing what they were expecting?

The exception disproves the rule.  To be sure, most people tend to hear what they were expecting.  But I personally have been surprised time & again as have many experience enthusiasts of my acquaintance.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2029 on: September 24, 2022, 03:36:42 AM »
The exception disproves the rule. 

Oh? I guess I just lost this one. Whatever. People who think amps sound different can hunt for the right one. People like me don't have that luxury (money time need will etc.) The amp I have is the one that has ALMOST* all the properties I need and is only painfully expensive. There was one option for me. Luckily I think the sound is perfect (there is nothing that bothers me).

* I can't have digital sources to headphones via my crossfeed headphone adapther, only analog. So I have to use external DAC to feed the amp while the digital inputs are useless with headphones - a brainfart of the amp designers. Headphone output works of course put has too high impedance and lacks crossfeed functionality (useless for me)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 03:49:16 AM by 71 dB »
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Fëanor

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2030 on: September 24, 2022, 09:04:30 AM »
Oh? I guess I just lost this one. Whatever. People who think amps sound different can hunt for the right one. People like me don't have that luxury (money time need will etc.) The amp I have is the one that has ALMOST* all the properties I need and is only painfully expensive. There was one option for me. Luckily I think the sound is perfect (there is nothing that bothers me).

* I can't have digital sources to headphones via my crossfeed headphone adapter, only analog. So I have to use external DAC to feed the amp while the digital inputs are useless with headphones - a brainfart of the amp designers. Headphone output works of course put has too high impedance and lacks crossfeed functionality (useless for me)

Well I suppose the good news is that superb amplifiers no longer have to be "painfully" expensive".

Just as an example, power amps built using the Purifi class D modules are essentially SOTA while being actually cheap by classic audiophile standards.  So for example the Nord Three SE 1ET400A MKII Dual Mono stereo amp is currently GBP 1650, (Euro 1850);  see the ASR measurements here.

The Benchmark HPA4 preamp & headphone amp is SOTA and relatively cheap at USD 3000, (Euro 3090); ASR review here.  The line preamp only version is USD 2450.  The Topping Pre90 is less elegant but only USD 850 (with extra inputs option);  ASR review.

If you need or prefer a separate headphone amp, (as I do), there are SOTA options available for cheap.  'Phone impedance is clearly a factor in your choice.  The Topping A90, (analog only), is about as good as it gets and will "drive anything" according to ASR, for USD 500.  There are great, relatively cheap DAC/headphone amp combos too such as the SMSL SP400;  ASR here.

Personally I hate headphone listening and don't have a great setup, however it's big with lots of folks.  (See my current system at my signature link below.)

The spoiler is that -- to make things more complicated -- objectively superb performance isn't what everybody wants.  Lot of people prefer lots of low order, (2nd/3rd), harmonic distortion.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 09:13:19 AM by Fëanor »

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2031 on: September 24, 2022, 09:21:59 AM »
Well I suppose the good news is that superb amplifiers no longer have to be "painfully" expensive".

Just as an example, power amps built using the Purifi class D modules are essentially SOTA while being actually cheap by classic audiophile standards.  So for example the Nord Three SE 1ET400A MKII Dual Mono stereo amp is currently GBP 1650, (Euro 1850);  see the ASR measurements here.

The Benchmark HPA4 preamp & headphone amp is SOTA and relatively cheap at USD 3000, (Euro 3090); ASR review here.  The line preamp only version is USD 2450.  The Topping Pre90 is less elegant but only USD 850 (with extra inputs option);  ASR review.

If you need or prefer a separate headphone amp, (as I do), there are SOTA options available for cheap.  'Phone impedance is clearly a factor in your choice.  The Topping A90, (analog only), is about as good as it gets and will "drive anything" according to ASR, for USD 500.  There are great, relatively cheap DAC/headphone amp combos too such as the SMSL SP400;  ASR here.

Personally I hate headphone listening and don't have a great setup, however it's big with lots of folks.  (See my current system at my signature link below.)

The spoiler is that -- to make things more complicated -- objectively superb performance isn't what everybody wants.  Lot of people prefer lots of low order, (2nd/3rd), harmonic distortion.
One of the things that can be frustrating for folks who own certain systems/setups is that if your equipment really shows what's there in terms of how things were recorded, you can hear the good, the bad, and the ugly.

PD

Offline Valentino

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2032 on: September 24, 2022, 10:32:50 AM »
I showed the frequency response of my setup previously. Opinion: Get that right and recording imperfections become less of a nuisance.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes

Offline 71 dB

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2033 on: September 24, 2022, 12:05:52 PM »
Well I suppose the good news is that superb amplifiers no longer have to be "painfully" expensive".

Just as an example, power amps built using the Purifi class D modules are essentially SOTA while being actually cheap by classic audiophile standards.  So for example the Nord Three SE 1ET400A MKII Dual Mono stereo amp is currently GBP 1650, (Euro 1850);  see the ASR measurements here.

The Benchmark HPA4 preamp & headphone amp is SOTA and relatively cheap at USD 3000, (Euro 3090); ASR review here.  The line preamp only version is USD 2450.  The Topping Pre90 is less elegant but only USD 850 (with extra inputs option);  ASR review.

If you need or prefer a separate headphone amp, (as I do), there are SOTA options available for cheap.  'Phone impedance is clearly a factor in your choice.  The Topping A90, (analog only), is about as good as it gets and will "drive anything" according to ASR, for USD 500.  There are great, relatively cheap DAC/headphone amp combos too such as the SMSL SP400;  ASR here.

Personally I hate headphone listening and don't have a great setup, however it's big with lots of folks.  (See my current system at my signature link below.)

The spoiler is that -- to make things more complicated -- objectively superb performance isn't what everybody wants.  Lot of people prefer lots of low order, (2nd/3rd), harmonic distortion.

I have a 5-channel speaker system, so stereo amps won't do. Also, what is affordable to you may not be affordable to others. Maybe you earn $10.000 a month? Most people don't. I have been unemployed for 6 years. In my opinion 3000 dollars for a stereo amp is insane, but that's me.

People are so different that recommendings things to other people doesn't work. Our realities are so different.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline 71 dB

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2034 on: September 24, 2022, 12:09:17 PM »
One of the things that can be frustrating for folks who own certain systems/setups is that if your equipment really shows what's there in terms of how things were recorded, you can hear the good, the bad, and the ugly.

PD

Nowadays a relatively cheap systems can be so transparent that it reveals everything. No need for expensive gear.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Harry

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2035 on: September 24, 2022, 12:31:06 PM »
Nowadays a relatively cheap systems can be so transparent that it reveals everything. No need for expensive gear.

I am sorry Poju, but I have to disagree strongly, my life long listening experience made one thing clear, expensive gear reveals much more as a average set up.
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Offline Fëanor

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2036 on: September 24, 2022, 12:31:53 PM »
I have a 5-channel speaker system, so stereo amps won't do. Also, what is affordable to you may not be affordable to others. Maybe you earn $10.000 a month? Most people don't. I have been unemployed for 6 years. In my opinion 3000 dollars for a stereo amp is insane, but that's me.

People are so different that recommendings things to other people doesn't work. Our realities are so different.

Yes, all fair and no dispute.  Come to that, I've been retired for 12 years on essentially a fixed income

I was simply pointing out components that were SOTA beyond reasonable without being spectacularly expensive.  Looking for the latter?  Hey, no problem.  How about a pair of Pass Labs XS300 monoblocks?  US$85,000, (each of the pair pair weighs 60 kilos).  Yes and people do buy these things.




Offline Fëanor

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2037 on: September 24, 2022, 12:34:42 PM »
One of the things that can be frustrating for folks who own certain systems/setups is that if your equipment really shows what's there in terms of how things were recorded, you can hear the good, the bad, and the ugly.

PD

Agreed.  The most transparent systems cut no slack for less than great recordings.  What was recorded is what you get.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2038 on: September 24, 2022, 12:59:41 PM »
I am sorry Poju, but I have to disagree strongly, my life long listening experience made one thing clear, expensive gear reveals much more as a average set up.

Well, speakers and headphones to some extent*, but "the other stuff" is very transparent even at lower price these days thanks to digital technology.

That is a good thing. Otherwise good sound would only be available for the rich.

* $1000 headphones probably have better sound that $100 headphones, but the correlation is not 100 %. Sometimes cheaper product is better.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 01:38:24 PM by 71 dB »
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Todd

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Re: What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?
« Reply #2039 on: September 24, 2022, 01:22:21 PM »
Equating price with sound quality is pure audiophile nonsense.  There are some ridiculously expensive pieces of (all types of) gear that sound mediocre, bad, or awful.  Speakers are the worst in this regard.  To be fair, there are also some ridiculously expensive pieces of gear that sound great, but price does not always equate to quality. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson