What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

Started by Bonehelm, May 24, 2007, 08:52:55 AM

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Atriod

Quote from: Bachtoven on January 19, 2024, 11:02:54 AMA lot of box sets do. This recent addition to my library has 136 tracks.
EDIT: I didn't see your comment about box sets before I posted my response.


If this was posted to the New Releases thread I missed it, another to add to my to stream list!

Ian

Does anyone use a subwoofer? Would it make sense to use one with classical music?

Daverz

Quote from: Ian on January 28, 2024, 03:07:57 PMDoes anyone use a subwoofer? Would it make sense to use one with classical music?

Whether it's worthwhile for classical music is going to depend on how low in frequency your main speakers can go and how loud you can listen.  I use my subwoofer with bookshelf speakers and let the subwoofer handle everything below 110 Hz, which takes some strain off the mains in the big musical moments.  Also that way I can put the subwoofer close to a wall where it gets some volume boost from the room and put the mains further out into the room away from walls.

Another consideration is that to get the most out of it, you need some kind of electronics with "bass management", like an audio-video receiver or something like a minidsp. 

I use an SVS SB-1000 Pro.  This is a active (built-in amp), sealed (no port) model with a 12 inch woofer and DSP control.  It's a surprisingly light and small subwoofer without being one of the "micro" models.



Bachtoven

Quote from: Ian on January 28, 2024, 03:07:57 PMDoes anyone use a subwoofer? Would it make sense to use one with classical music?
I do, and for chamber or solo music it doesn't add much, but for orchestral music it adds some weight, and bass drums come across better. Of course, it's a huge help for large pipe organs. I have an SVS Ultra 13 sub. It's no longer made, sadly. Like Daverz' SVS, it has a built-in amp.
Audio: B&W 803D3, SVS Ultra 13, McIntosh MA9000, Mark Levinson No.5101, Roon Nucleus Plus, Denafrips Venus, VPI Prime Signature, Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Focal Stellia, Sennheiser HD800S

ultralinear

Quote from: Ian on January 28, 2024, 03:07:57 PMDoes anyone use a subwoofer? Would it make sense to use one with classical music?

+1 to the above responses. :)

I have a Rega Vulcan which sits unobtrusively in the corner and fills out the bottom octave where my main speakers don't go.  It's not identifiable as a source of sound, its effect is to fill out the sound coming from the main rig, and that effect is significant across most kinds of music - orchestral, obviously, but also solo piano.

Whether - and what type of - a subwoofer would work for you will depend on what main speakers it would be working with, and also the size & shape of the room.  No point trying to get down very low in a small room.

Adjustment is also important - I did mine by ear, with a deal of trial & error - a mini-DSP like @Daverz mentioned would take the guesswork out of it (one of these days I must get one. ::) ;D )

Valentino

Quote from: Ian on January 28, 2024, 03:07:57 PMDoes anyone use a subwoofer? Would it make sense to use one with classical music?
I have two with two 12" each in small boxes, playing mono. Upper crossover frequency 45 Hz because I have dipole speakers above that.
The subs really get some work to do on the new LP release of the Boston/Steinberg Zarathustra. I'm not really sure if the 16 Hz C is played, I cut hard below 20. 32 Hz is still menacing.
The heart (or brains) of my 4-way main system is a MiniDSP Flex Eight. No analog crossovers here since 2009 cause 3-way dipoles are difficult*, but the little box from Hong Kong is a whole lot easier to work with (and stable!) than an 8 ch out RME sound card and a PC running PLparEQ filters was. But I digress. Full range is good, especially for classical/acoustic music.

*Yes I know Siegfried Linkwitz did analog for his complex LX521, but he was Linkwitz in Linkwitz-Riley...
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Ian

#2786
Thank you all for your interesting answers.

For info my speakers are focal 816 W. At the moment my amp is a NAD 315BBE with no dedicated sub woofer output but is see that REL deliver a cable to be used directly on the speaker outputs.
My room is quite small but I always seem to be missing bass at low volume. I typically listen at around 55-60dB. And I like to "feel" the bass as much as hear it. I was thinking indeed that for the organ it would be great, I can imagine RWV 7th and Jongen's Symphonie Concertante with a sub woofer must take them to a new dimension.

@ Bachtoven, I see you have a McIntosh amp. I need to upgrade my amp and the McIntosh MA252, which has a dedicated sub out, is on my list. But I was thinking maybe, due to their history, McIntosh may be more suited to rock music. How do you find your amp with classical? I guess you are happy with it? I have not had the opportunity to hear any amps yet but that one and the Sugden A21 and Musical Fidelity A1 are on my list.

I am thinking about the REL Acoustics Classic 98,for my system.

Quote from: Valentino on January 29, 2024, 03:19:58 AMThe subs really get some work to do on the new LP release of the Boston/Steinberg Zarathustra.

Is this from the 3 (or 4?) LP box set? I was thinking about that too... just because it contains my favourite performance of the Planets. :)

Valentino

Yes, it's the 3 LP set which is quickly becoming unobtanium. They made 2100 copies in the first numbered batch.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

DavidW

Quote from: Ian on January 29, 2024, 03:52:11 AMMy room is quite small but I always seem to be missing bass at low volume. I typically listen at around 55-60dB. And I like to "feel" the bass as much as hear it.

Fletcher-Munson curve applies here!  It is too quiet for you to hear the bass (due to limits in human hearing).  That is why older amps had a loudness control to boost the bass and treble at low volumes to still sound full.  It is too bad that modern pre-amps and amps ditch that.



How you read the curve is how high it has to be to sound the same.  If the curve is flat they all sound the same.  You can see that it flattens at high volumes and is strongly U shaped at low volumes (meaning that bass and treble would have to be dramatically increased for you to hear it as easily as midrange).

I'm pointing this out because you can buy a subwoofer and still not benefit from the bass.

You might be better off buying a pre-amp with a loudness control!

Spotted Horses

#2789
Quote from: DavidW on January 29, 2024, 09:30:08 AMFletcher-Munson curve applies here!  It is too quiet for you to hear the bass (due to limits in human hearing).  That is why older amps had a loudness control to boost the bass and treble at low volumes to still sound full.  It is too bad that modern pre-amps and amps ditch that.



How you read the curve is how high it has to be to sound the same.  If the curve is flat they all sound the same.  You can see that it flattens at high volumes and is strongly U shaped at low volumes (meaning that bass and treble would have to be dramatically increased for you to hear it as easily as midrange).

I'm pointing this out because you can buy a subwoofer and still not benefit from the bass.

You might be better off buying a pre-amp with a loudness control!

The trouble with loudness controls is that they assume your speakers have some sensitivity. If you speakers are more sensitive (require less power) the loudness will kick in even when playing loud and if they are less sensitive (require more power to drive) the loudness will only kick in when playing very softly.

If you're listening through some sort of computer gadget you can use the equalizer to balance the sound at your preferred volume (or get an old school equalizer if you are using an analog system). I had a Harmon-Kardon 10 band equalizer in the day.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Valentino

Fond memories of a Yamaha FM receiver I once had with variable loudness control.  :)
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Holden

Quote from: Valentino on January 29, 2024, 03:19:58 AMI have two with two 12" each in small boxes, playing mono. Upper crossover frequency 45 Hz because I have dipole speakers above that.

Good point raised here.

Many who buy subs don't realise that even if you get two of them the sound still comes out of them in mono. It's how they integrate them with your main speakers that give the stereo/surround effect. The plus of this is that you can virtually place them anywhere you like in the room. The style of the subwoofer and where its port/s are will go some way to helping you determine that. For example I added a subwoofer to the soundbar that's connected to my TV. While I face the soundbar, which sits below the TV screen, the sub sits behind my chair out of the way. The sub in my desktop system sits at the bottom of my computer desk at my feet with the side firing port aimed at the side of the desk.
Cheers

Holden

DavidW

I think the virtue of having two subs is that it might be easier to obtain a flatter bass response across the room (due to the difficulty of having standing wave destructive and constructive interference at different bass frequencies).  One usually doesn't worry about stereo imaging when the wavelengths are comparable to the size of the room itself.

Atriod

#2793
I was able to hear KEF Blade Meta 2, I was blown away by what I heard. Among the best speakers I've heard at reproducing symphony music. Not surprisingly being pretty much the best measuring speakers directivity FR wise they sounded dead even throughout their entire bandwidth. Putting in Etymotic earplugs and playing way louder than I would ever listen I could not detect any compression.

Recreating a spiritual double header I came into a few weeks ago- Celibidache's live Munchner Bruckner Symphony 8 and Franck's Prelude, Chorale, and Fugue played by Michel Block. Sadly I could not listen to both pieces in full but it confirmed what I'd known; an incredible stereo elevates the emotional response of already great music/performances.

Now on my short list for shared space speakers.

Next will be the NYC dealer for MBL 101e for speakers I want to upgrade in the dedicated listening room.

DavidW

@Atriod my previous speakers were Kef and oh man they sounded good.  My current speakers don't have a clear upgrade path within their brand (Paradigm) because the flagships are just not much better... so when I want to upgrade my speakers I'll probably be looking at Kef again (and a few others on my mind).  I don't know when that would be, definitely not for a few years.

Atriod

Quote from: DavidW on February 03, 2024, 05:52:54 AM@Atriod my previous speakers were Kef and oh man they sounded good.  My current speakers don't have a clear upgrade path within their brand (Paradigm) because the flagships are just not much better... so when I want to upgrade my speakers I'll probably be looking at Kef again (and a few others on my mind).  I don't know when that would be, definitely not for a few years.

I used to own the first generation LS50, they've come a long way since then. I ended up selling them due to some lower mid coloration, seems like the Meta iteration drivers have fixed that. LS60 Meta (per Erin or Kef's directivity measurements) look really good too except for the speaker protection kicking in at spls that would occur at my listening distance with symphony and some solo keyboard music.

I would definitely keep a close eye on what this company is doing!

DavidW

I'm thinking of buying an NAD C700 and selling off my separates (excepting the cd transport of course).  With an hdmi earc I can also replace my soundbar as well.  It would handle streaming, playing my flac library, preamp and amp all in one... and it uses the same app that I'm already using for my Node.


Harry

Quote from: DavidW on February 18, 2024, 09:07:51 AMI'm thinking of buying an NAD C700 and selling off my separates (excepting the cd transport of course).  With an hdmi earc I can also replace my soundbar as well.  It would handle streaming, playing my flac library, preamp and amp all in one... and it uses the same app that I'm already using for my Node.



Love this little fellöw, although I would go for the bigger Masters Series M10 V2, really worth the money, and Roon compatible.
Every man who thinks he is something is nothing.
The man who is something is whoever thinks he is nothing.
Carmina Proverbialia 22.

AnotherSpin

Quote from: DavidW on February 18, 2024, 09:07:51 AMI'm thinking of buying an NAD C700 and selling off my separates (excepting the cd transport of course).  With an hdmi earc I can also replace my soundbar as well.  It would handle streaming, playing my flac library, preamp and amp all in one... and it uses the same app that I'm already using for my Node.



A step in the right direction.

DavidW

Quote from: Harry on February 18, 2024, 10:43:56 AMLove this little fellöw, although I would go for the bigger Masters Series M10 V2, really worth the money, and Roon compatible.

I went with that... the M10 V2 is on its way.  If I don't like it, I'll return it.  If I do like it, then I'll sell all those individual components.