What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

[Mandryka]

I have three DACs, an American one (Theta), a British one (Deltec), a Canadian one (Museatex) I only play Red Book.

The problem I have is knowing the effect they're having. I'm sure, as 71db says, the analogue stage makes a difference, but how much of a difference, is not clear to me. And I'm not at all clear what the effect of the chip is.

Having said that when I first got the Theta and the Museatex I was really pleased. Maybe I've come to take them for granted. I never felt my Deltec DAC was special, it's called Bigger Bit.

Friends of mine like the idea of No Oversampling, they  say it makes for a more « valve like » sound. I don't know.

[Mandryka]

     Get a backup EF86. Also look for a Blackburn Mullard GZ34, an f32 like this:

     

   

This acquisition was problematic. It arrived, it worked beautifully for two hours, and it promptly exploded very dramatically.

Taken back by the vendor, who returned it after a week and it has worked with no problem since.

I've just sent it to a tech to look over, check the bias, replace any dodgy caps, do a sort of MOT and Service on it. It sounds very very musical, involving and warm. I've found myself enjoying music which I've never enjoyed before because of it.

My tech said that the explosion was probably real bad luck, that in truth a capacitor can explode at any time, though it is, thankfully, very rare.

I was using it with my JR 149s. The result wasn't quite as real as the combination of the Krell KSA50 and my Spendors. But that may have as much to do with the speakers as the amps (or the DACs? - you see how easy it is to overlook them!) When it comes back I'll swap around and compare and contrast.

[drogulus]

     I'm not an audiophile, I'm familiar with these tubes because I'm a guitar/bass player and I have amps that use them, 2 of them use the EF86, one uses a different pentode, and 3 of them use the GZ34 rectifier.

[Daverz]

Do DACs really make much of a difference?

Yeah, a $90 Topping D10 does a massively better job at transparently reproducing a digital recording than a $13k Totaldac d1-six DAC.

Take a look at the measurements at Audio Science Review:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-d10-dac.2470/

If you need more transparency, take a look at Sabaj D5, which has balanced outputs and a SINAD (signal above noise and distortion) of 119 dB. 

I have compared the D10 to my Auralic Vega.  They use the same DAC chip (ES9018).  I'm hard pressed to hear any difference except the obviously different volume level.

[Mandryka]

     I'm not an audiophile, I'm familiar with these tubes because I'm a guitar/bass player and I have amps that use them, 2 of them use the EF86, one uses a different pentode, and 3 of them use the GZ34 rectifier.

I kind of guessed that you know about guitar amps.

Is there a good thing to read on tubes, not technical, something which is aimed at people like me, which will explain the different types and maybe discuss their sound a bit, what their functions are in the amp etc.?

[Mandryka]

Yeah, a $90 Topping D10 does a massively better job at transparently reproducing a digital recording than a $13k Totaldac d1-six DAC.

So the question then is whether the $13K dac has any audio virtues which the $90 dac lacks.

[drogulus]

Is there a good thing to read on tubes, not technical, something which is aimed at people like me, which will explain the different types and maybe discuss their sound a bit, what their functions are in the amp etc.?

   You have to look up things like how the a particular tube type is used in an audio circuit. The relevant info is dispersed all over the place, like tube shootouts comparing current production tubes with ones made decades ago. One amp I have uses an EF86/12AU7 driver/inverter because nobody makes a 7199 any more. We decided on this because I looked up what Dynaco users were doing to replace their 7199s.

[Harry]

Well the Atoll DAC 300 I ordered cost 2500,- euro's and has raving reviews on the internet. After listening to a demo I was boiled over. I have in my secondary system an Atoll amp, Avalon wall mounted speakers, Nordost Red Dawn loudspeaker cables, and  Nordost Valhalla interlinks, and power cables made ny Nordost Also an oppo Bluray player, and a Technics DAC which I have now replaced. With the new DAC the sound stage is lifted up a whole new level. Lots of detailing, open stage, a slam bass, good vocals, low/mid/high balance almost perfect.

[Mandryka]

How's the bass on the wall mounted speakers, Harry? What do they do to stop it being too boomy?

[Harry]

How's the bass on the wall mounted speakers, Harry? What do they do to stop it being too boomy?

Well the Avalons coupled with the Atoll set up keep everything as tight as a snare drum, no boominess, no resonance, all in balance. It's just the total set up. I must add that there is a KEF subwoofer added to the system, that makes it even better. This bass hits your stomach, but never too much.

[Mandryka]

That's interesting. I tried my Rogers JR149s on wall brackets, Jim Rogers used to sell brackets for them, but the bass was boomy, it was as if they needed 30cm of space behind them. But I never tried them like that with a good amp, the Krell has a reputation for tight bass, so that may well have sorted out the problem.

[Harry]

That's interesting. I tried my Rogers JR149s on wall brackets, Jim Rogers used to sell brackets for them, but the bass was boomy, it was as if they needed 30cm of space behind them. But I never tried them like that with a good amp, the Krell has a reputation for tight bass, so that may well have sorted out the problem.

Well what I can say that these Avalons were meant to be build in the wall, which I did. I only know of Dali building also a speaker the same way, and I heard it, but it was far below these Avalons I have.

[71 dB]

Well the Atoll DAC 300 I ordered cost 2500,- euro's

One month salary for many before taxes... ...and after taxes most of it is going to rather mandatory things like rent, food, clothes, electric bills, etc. but I'm glad you have such money to invest on "secondary system DAC".

[Harry]

One month salary for many before taxes... ...and after taxes most of it is going to rather mandatory things like rent, food, clothes, electric bills, etc. but I'm glad you have such money to invest on "secondary system DAC".

I realized this too my friend, but be aware that I give most of my equipment I replace too others that are not so fortunate.
Maybe you remember that I gave thousands of CD'S away to GMG members all over the world, for no money at all, I even paid the postage myself.
There should be a thread that covers that all.

[71 dB]

I realized this too my friend, but be aware that I give most of my equipment I replace too others that are not so fortunate.
Maybe you remember that I gave thousands of CD'S away to GMG members all over the world, for no money at all, I even paid the postage myself.
There should be a thread that covers that all.

Harry, your generosity and kindness is not questioned in any way.
Just commenting on the casuality of mentioning of having ordered a 2500 euro DAC for your second system.
Masses don't do that, not even for their prime system.

[Daverz]

So the question then is whether the $13K dac has any audio virtues which the $90 dac lacks.

Once you've got noise and distortion below a certain level at the required output voltage, and you have a flat frequency response, there are no audio virtues to be added.  (And that TotalDAC is just incompetently designed.)  There is no reason to spend more than a few hundred bucks on a DAC these days unless you want more features like hybrid volume control, DSP, multichannel, analog inputs, etc.

[Fëanor]

Once you've got noise and distortion below a certain level at the required output voltage, and you have a flat frequency response, there are no audio virtues to be added.  (And that TotalDAC is just incompetently designed.)  There is no reason to spend more than a few hundred bucks on a DAC these days unless you want more features like hybrid volume control, DSP, multichannel, analog inputs, etc.

Hard-core audiophiles can hear, (or are convinced they can hear), extremely subtle sound differences;  well-heeled audiophile are often willing to spend quite large amounts to obtain the sound they prefer.

But I tend to agree that large mounts aren't necessarily need to get excellent sound.  Recently I replaced a USD 1300 Schiit Audio Gungnir Multibit DAC with a USD 400 Topping DX7s DAC;  the latter sounds essentially the same as the former, though if anything, it is tiny bitter better in the detail.

An excellent site for objective reviews of DACs, etc. is Audio Science Review.  There the highest performing DACs are round $2000, but there is  the case of a USD 14,000 DAC that is outperformed by a USD 220 unit.

[Mandryka]

Well the Atoll DAC 300 I ordered cost 2500,- euro's and has raving reviews on the internet. After listening to a demo I was boiled over. I have in my secondary system an Atoll amp, Avalon wall mounted speakers, Nordost Red Dawn loudspeaker cables, and  Nordost Valhalla interlinks, and power cables made ny Nordost Also an oppo Bluray player, and a Technics DAC which I have now replaced. With the new DAC the sound stage is lifted up a whole new level. Lots of detailing, open stage, a slam bass, good vocals, low/mid/high balance almost perfect.

Which Avalon model? I'm not in the market myself but I know someone who wants some top quality wall mounts, so he may well appreciate the information.

[Mandryka]

Once you've got noise and distortion below a certain level at the required output voltage, and you have a flat frequency response, there are no audio virtues to be added.  (And that TotalDAC is just incompetently designed.)  There is no reason to spend more than a few hundred bucks on a DAC these days unless you want more features like hybrid volume control, DSP, multichannel, analog inputs, etc.

Can you have a DAC with an impressively flat frequency response, but which sounds crap? No magic?

[Harry]

Which Avalon model? I'm not in the market myself but I know someone who wants some top quality wall mounts, so he may well appreciate the information.

I am not even sure Avalon still has them  in their programming. After church I will see on their site if they are still there. I have  them already for almost 20 years. Be aware however that you have to add a Subwoofer to those speakers.