What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

Started by Bonehelm, May 24, 2007, 08:52:55 AM

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Daverz

Quote from: DavidW on May 17, 2022, 05:23:17 PM
So I really liked this.  By tackling the room first and foremost it might actually be the best sounding system even if there are some that might be more expensive.  Some things though:

As Todd pointed out digital is an afterthought.  This is clearly a vinyl guy.  His turntable probably costs on par with a house, but he is using an Oppo player and no streamer nor nad (unless I missed it).

Please don't show off a million dollar stereo by pouring a glass of bargain white wine at room temp!

I haven't seen the video, but an expensive boutique CD player is not going to perform any better than an Oppo.

Valentino

This.

A pretty box is nice. Tuning by ear? Jeez. Make proper electronics in the first place. Tuning by ear is a loudspeaker (and turntable) thing.
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
Audio-Technica | Bokrand | Thorens | Cambridge Audio | Logitech | Yamaha | Topping | MiniDSP | Hypex | ICEpower | Mundorf | SEAS | Beyma

Todd



As I stream more and more music, I need to go for a cheap streamer that can use my home wi-fi to stream full res recordings.  I currently use either an Audioengine B1 that relies on Bluetooth in my main system, or I stream via an Amazon Fire in my bedroom system.  Neither is acceptable for long term use, and there's no way I'm paying for an audiophile streamer.  That's like paying hundreds of dollars for an optical cable.  This dandy Dayton Audio WBA31 looks like the solution.  If it doesn't work to expectations, I'm out only $53.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

DavidW

I don't know how you found that Todd but what a bargain!  It has an app to make it easy to control, and it has digital out so your dac can do the heavy lifting. 

Todd

Quote from: DavidW on June 05, 2022, 12:44:40 PM
I don't know how you found that Todd but what a bargain!  It has an app to make it easy to control, and it has digital out so your dac can do the heavy lifting.

I became aware of Dayton Audio when working with Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy in designing my speakers built by Salk Sound about a decade ago.  Jim uses Dayton for basic speaker components - Dayton speaker spikes are massive, aesthetically pleasing, and cheap, as are their binding post plates - and he used one of their woofer designs in one of his top of line speakers.  Every once in a while I peruse the Dayton site to see what's what.  You can put together a decent sounding set up using Dayton components for peanuts (eg, bookshelf speakers with ribbon tweeters for ~$75/pair). 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

greg

#1965
I just finished setting up my surround sound system for my TV, but am trying to figure out what to do with my separate stereo system for listening to music.

What I'm lost on is what I should know/how to match a CD player (w/bluetooth) to speakers like these:

Klipsch Reference R-26FA Dolby Atmos Floorstanding Speakers, Black, Pair
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083GKTW4S/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

The CD player itself I'd like to not spend over $200 on... I preferably would get excellent standing speakers like these, but seems these are meant for receivers, and there is no matching CD player, so just confused how to match them.

edit: a little bit over $200, but considering this one:
Onkyo DXC390 6 Disc CD Changer,Black
https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-DXC390-Disc-CD-Changer/dp/B0000EZ1KK/ref=sr_1_15_mod_primary_new?crid=NQ0UZC6MTFBF&keywords=multi%2Bcd%2Bplayer&qid=1655060772&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=multi%2Bcd%2Bplayer%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-15&th=1

seems I need a receiver like this also:
Onkyo TX-8220 2 Home Audio Channel Stereo Receiver with Bluetooth,black
https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8220-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B075P831VY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2A2BGWMUCHC92&keywords=Onkyo+TX-8220+receiver&qid=1655061629&sprefix=onkyo+tx-8220+receiver%2Caps%2C213&sr=8-1

and should be able to connect to those speakers, despite being a different brand.
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

Spotted Horses

Quote from: greg on June 12, 2022, 10:51:12 AM
I just finished setting up my surround sound system for my TV, but am trying to figure out what to do with my separate stereo system for listening to music.

What I'm lost on is what I should know/how to match a CD player (w/bluetooth) to speakers like these:

Klipsch Reference R-26FA Dolby Atmos Floorstanding Speakers, Black, Pair
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083GKTW4S/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

The CD player itself I'd like to not spend over $200 on... I preferably would get excellent standing speakers like these, but seems these are meant for receivers, and there is no matching CD player, so just confused how to match them.

edit: a little bit over $200, but considering this one:
Onkyo DXC390 6 Disc CD Changer,Black
https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-DXC390-Disc-CD-Changer/dp/B0000EZ1KK/ref=sr_1_15_mod_primary_new?crid=NQ0UZC6MTFBF&keywords=multi%2Bcd%2Bplayer&qid=1655060772&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=multi%2Bcd%2Bplayer%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-15&th=1

seems I need a receiver like this also:
Onkyo TX-8220 2 Home Audio Channel Stereo Receiver with Bluetooth,black
https://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-8220-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B075P831VY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2A2BGWMUCHC92&keywords=Onkyo+TX-8220+receiver&qid=1655061629&sprefix=onkyo+tx-8220+receiver%2Caps%2C213&sr=8-1

and should be able to connect to those speakers, despite being a different brand.

Those speakers do not connect with bluetooth, as far as I can see. They are passive speakers that connect with wires, which is why they require a receiver or amplifier with substantial output power. You can connect your phone or other source to the receiver by bluetooth but the receiver drives the speaker by delivering electrical current.

There are speakers that connect with bluetooth, but typically not in the audiophile range. Bluetooth audio connectivity involves lossy compression, so you are always listening to compressed audio with bluetooth, even if your source is lossless (FLAC, etc).
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

DavidW

Dolby atmos speakers for a stereo?  Entry level Klipsch speakers can be abrasively bright.  On that limited budget I would
(a) consider bookshelves instead (I recommend Kef), unless you're in a large room you'll better far better SQ for the buck
(b) skip the cd player and buy the cheapest transport (dvd/bd/4k/cd whatever) you can find and put that money in the speakers
(c) buy the Yamaha receiver instead, save $50 and again put it on the speakers

You could probably actually do better with used or vintage in that price bracket.


greg

Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 12, 2022, 03:08:28 PM
Bluetooth audio connectivity involves lossy compression, so you are always listening to compressed audio with bluetooth, even if your source is lossless (FLAC, etc).
Good point, though my digital music library is all mp3, and besides that it would just be streaming off of youtube/maybe even Spotify, etc. so if that's the only concern then it shouldn't be a big deal.
But some sort of USB connection where I can plug in my flash drive with my entire digital music library and play from there would be nice, too.



Quote from: DavidW on June 12, 2022, 03:53:50 PM
Entry level Klipsch speakers can be abrasively bright.
Would be nice if there were a way to know how they sound before buying... mostly for stuff that is all-around good for any genre of music.



Quote from: DavidW on June 12, 2022, 03:53:50 PM
(b) skip the cd player and buy the cheapest transport (dvd/bd/4k/cd whatever) you can find and put that money in the speakers
The confusing part is not knowing wtf a transport is until now, and not knowing how things can be connected.

I can consider bookshelf speakers as long as they can sit on a stand, no plans to get a shelf for them.
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

DavidW

Quote from: greg on June 12, 2022, 06:13:51 PM
Would be nice if there were a way to know how they sound before buying... mostly for stuff that is all-around good for any genre of music.

Reviews and measurements will help you out.  Unlike headphones, flat speakers sound flat and natural.  You usually want a flat frequency response.  Well... in your room.  When I talk about curves or graphs here, I'm talking about amplitude versus frequency, otherwise known as the frequency response curve.

A big part of it is how it sounds in your room.  You can buy a pair of bookshelves and they are small enough it would not be that difficult to return if you don't like them as they sound in your room.  But I will give you a cheat, which will help you sort it out.  And I'm assuming you're not going to treat your room in anyway.

1. If you can't move your speakers 3 feet away from the wall, the bass will be bloated.  That means that you want thin or brighter than neutral speakers to compensate.  That means when you look at a graph it is okay if the upper mids and treble are higher than the bass and lower mids.  But it would be terrible for the bass to be louder than the high frequencies.  Neutral speakers would sound overly warm and bloated.  Front facing bass ports are your friend here.  That is in the review look for "thin, bright, cold" or look at the graph and look for it to curve up when you read it left to right.

2. If you have lots of hardwood floor, glass windows, bare walls, not a lot of furniture it makes speakers overly bright.  In that case you would want darker speakers, the type that roll off the treble or with appropriate toe-in you achieve the same result.  In this case dark, warm speakers (elevated bass and reduced treble) are your friend.  If you have the case of #1 at the same time, you need to reduce the treble but not elevate the bass.  That is look in the review for the words "warm, dark, inviting" or look at the graph and look for it curve down when you read it left to right.

3. If you can position your speakers well, you have carpet or an area rug and paintings or panels or curtains in your room, not lots of hard surfaces that fails to dampen reflections... then congratulations you have a great room!  You should buy neutral speakers.  Look for the words "neutral, best, balanced" or a flat curve.

4. If you sit 2 m away or less, you need to look for good near field speakers.  If you sit 3 m away or more, you need far field.  Most reviews address the performance in both areas.

5. In small rooms bookshelves work fine, in large rooms think towers... but you can also go for bookshelves and add a subwoofer later.

So for example if your room was well furnished but you have to put the speakers up close to the wall, the Klipsch might look promising but it depends.  If you have to put the speakers close to the wall due to wife acceptance factor, yes.  If it is because your room is small then NO.  You don't put towers in a small room.

If you are in pursuit of high fidelity then you need to be open to room treatment, proper speaker placement and neutral speakers.  The intangibles like sound stage, detail, blackness etc. are strongly tied to getting the basics right.  It is just not nearly as easy to buy good speakers as it is to buy good headphones.  You have to be open to reading reviews and trial and error.  Else you could end up stuck with something that you don't like and don't use.

But that being said not everyone is going want to neurotically obsess over bass traps, acoustic panels, sitting positions etc.  If you're not a reviewer whatever.  But if you try to get speakers that have synergy with your room you could have a much better experience for the same money without becoming a neurotic audiophile.  If you buy from a store that sells audio gear they will have a good return policy and completely understand.  You don't have to stick with Amazon.

DavidW

The tldr is that you need to be open to reading reviews and auditioning speakers to find your best match and put nearly all of your budget in the speakers.  Your room and your ears will dictate what sounds good to you.

71 dB

Quote from: DavidW on June 13, 2022, 05:25:54 AM
The tldr is that you need to be open to reading reviews and auditioning speakers to find your best match and put nearly all of your budget in the speakers.  Your room and your ears will dictate what sounds good to you.

Speakers are very high in the priority, but saying one should spend nearly all of the budget in the speakers isn't a good general guideline. It depends. Affordable speakers can have good sound these days, but if you prefer exotic speakers the price tag can be shocking. A significant amount of the budget should be allocated in the speakers. It is a case by case thing what is significant.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Irons

Quote from: DavidW on June 13, 2022, 05:25:54 AM
The tldr is that you need to be open to reading reviews and auditioning speakers to find your best match and put nearly all of your budget in the speakers.  Your room and your ears will dictate what sounds good to you.

The owner of the company producing the Linn Sondek TT, Ivor Tiefenbrun once said "s--t in s--t out. He has a point as no matter how good or expensive the speakers, if the front end of a system is not up to it then you are not going to turn water into wine.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

71 dB

Quote from: Irons on June 13, 2022, 08:17:43 AM
The owner of the company producing the Linn Sondek TT, Ivor Tiefenbrun once said "s--t in s--t out. He has a point as no matter how good or expensive the speakers, if the front end of a system is not up to it then you are not going to turn water into wine.

A seller of front ends over-emphasizing the importance of front ends? How surprising!

Linn Sondek was founded 50 years ago! 10 years before CD format! Back then you had bad front ends. Now, four decades of digital audio one has to try really hard to find bad (digital) front ends. The bottlenecks of good sound today are:

1) Bad acoustics
2) Bad speakers
3) Bad speaker placement
4) Bad listening spot
5) Bad music production, mixing and mastering
6) Too low bitrate in compressed audio (e.g. 128 kbps mp3)

If you can avoid these problems, good sound quality is pretty much quaranteed.

Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

DavidW

Quote from: 71 dB on June 13, 2022, 07:30:29 AM
Speakers are very high in the priority, but saying one should spend nearly all of the budget in the speakers isn't a good general guideline.

I agree, but I wasn't talking in general.  If you read ALL of the posts you'll see that Greg's budget is quite limited.  If you only have $1k to spend TOTAL, nearly all of it should go into the speakers.  There are good entry level speakers out there, but also lots of garbage, and so Greg needs to read reviews and audition speakers.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 13, 2022, 09:05:40 AM
The bottlenecks of good sound today are:

1) Bad acoustics
2) Bad speakers
3) Bad speaker placement
4) Bad listening spot
5) Bad music production, mixing and mastering
6) Too low bitrate in compressed audio (e.g. 128 kbps mp3)

If you can avoid these problems, good sound quality is pretty much quaranteed.



Totally agreed.

DavidW

Quote from: DavidW on May 09, 2022, 04:50:37 PM
I've been using my dac in preamp mode (so it just uses digital attenuation), but I just bought the Schitt Freya S.  I really couldn't believe how much improved the SQ is.  Smooth, articulate, full.  It is all there.  I started with Aho's Trombone Concerto and the sharp, shrill edge on the trombone is gone.  It sounded musical and full.  I moved on to my other challenge the Fischer Mahler 9 and it sounded expressive in a way that it didn't before.  I was also shocked how layered the sound was.  All the different parts of the orchestra were in their own space.

btw I've never regretted this purchase.  Providing some gain onto the dac's signal really opened up the music.  It sounds so good!

71 dB

Quote from: DavidW on June 13, 2022, 09:49:04 AM
I agree, but I wasn't talking in general.  If you read ALL of the posts you'll see that Greg's budget is quite limited.  If you only have $1k to spend TOTAL, nearly all of it should go into the speakers.  There are good entry level speakers out there, but also lots of garbage, and so Greg needs to read reviews and audition speakers.

Yeah, I didn't realise the context of your post and took it generally.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

drogulus

     My PSB small bookshelf speakers must be going on 25 years old. They are Canadian in nationality as well as sonic signature. By that I mean they don't really have much of a sound besides the music that's played on them. My room is small, though, and for a big room I might go for Walsh omnis. I owned Ohm Fs in the '70s, and you haven't lived until you've stood right next to one speaker while clearly hearing the other. The sweet spot is most of the room.
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drogulus

     I use direct injection of my lossless media files on HDDs into my "ChinOppo", which is what some wiseguy named a media player which is identical to an Oppo 203 without a disc player. It even has the same software that says Oppo.

     I'm thinking of getting the Zapitti Oppo substitute. It's pricey but what are you going to do? None of the disk players on the market can play everything through the USB like an almost real Oppo can.
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The new erato

Quote from: 71 dB on June 13, 2022, 09:05:40 AM
A seller of front ends over-emphasizing the importance of front ends? How surprising!

Linn Sondek was founded 50 years ago! 10 years before CD format! Back then you had bad front ends. Now, four decades of digital audio one has to try really hard to find bad (digital) front ends. The bottlenecks of good sound today are:

1) Bad acoustics
2) Bad speakers
3) Bad speaker placement
4) Bad listening spot
5) Bad music production, mixing and mastering
6) Too low bitrate in compressed audio (e.g. 128 kbps mp3)

If you can avoid these problems, good sound quality is pretty much quaranteed.

I totally agree in this. That isn't to say other things don't matter, but room and environment (essentially your first four points) are the first four things one needs to get reight. And I will add that what is the "right" speaker dependes upon what music you like to listen to, and at what level.