What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

[Bogey]

Is this recommended even if the larger floor speakers have a sub component?

Here is a shot from the web of the speakers, but not mine:

[drogulus]

     No, those speakers don't need a subwoofer.

     

[Bogey]

     No, those speakers don't need a subwoofer.

     

Yes, my Sansui's have plenty of ooomph.  So, now that I do not need a sub, let me pick your (and others') brains on other avenues to continue improving sound.
 
However, I believe one of my biggest challenges is the room itself.  Pretty much concrete.  14 ft by 14 ft.  Only about 4ft. spread between the floor speakers and 6ft. between the Diamonds.  My dad suggested some throw rugs along with a screen at the opposite side of the room made of fabric to cut down on the sound bouncing around.  Any other suggestions?

[drogulus]

Yes, my Sansui's have plenty of ooomph.  So, now that I do not need a sub, let me pick your (and others') brains on other avenues to continue improving sound.
 
However, I believe one of my biggest challenges is the room itself.  Pretty much concrete.  14 ft by 14 ft.  Only about 4ft. spread between the floor speakers and 6ft. between the Diamonds.  My dad suggested some throw rugs along with a screen at the opposite side of the room made of fabric to cut down on the sound bouncing around.  Any other suggestions?

     Cutting down on reflections is good. Also try moving the big speakers around until the balance sounds right to you. They might sound a bit boomy if they are too close to the back wall. Once you have the balance zeroed in you won't need the other pair of speakers. If you do need them there might be something wrong with one or more of the drivers in the Sansui's. I would want to run both sets separately to see exactly what each pair is doing.

[Bogey]

     Cutting down on reflections is good. Also try moving the big speakers around until the balance sounds right to you. They might sound a bit boomy if they are too close to the back wall. Once you have the balance zeroed in you won't need the other pair of speakers. If you do need them there might be something wrong with one or more of the drivers in the Sansui's. I would want to run both sets separately to see exactly what each pair is doing.

Already had them away from the wall.  Will do some testing with some cds per your suggestion.  That might be an easier medium to calibrate with.  There are some adjustments on the back of the speakers

last picture in top row...I have mine on "natural".  Any thoughts here?

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5847401

[Daverz]

Yes, my Sansui's have plenty of ooomph.  So, now that I do not need a sub, let me pick your (and others') brains on other avenues to continue improving sound.
 
However, I believe one of my biggest challenges is the room itself.  Pretty much concrete.  14 ft by 14 ft.  Only about 4ft. spread between the floor speakers and 6ft. between the Diamonds.  My dad suggested some throw rugs along with a screen at the opposite side of the room made of fabric to cut down on the sound bouncing around.  Any other suggestions?

How high  is the ceiling?  You're going to have some low frequency room modes in  a square room like that.  See these room mode calculators:

http://www.mcsquared.com/metricmodes.htm
http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Acoustics/RoomModeStandingWaveCalcu.html

Interesting discussion here:

http://www.realtraps.com/art_tuning.htm

though those guys are selling a product, so take it with a grain of salt.

[drogulus]

Already had them away from the wall.  Will do some testing with some cds per your suggestion.  That might be an easier medium to calibrate with.  There are some adjustments on the back of the speakers

last picture in top row...I have mine on "natural".  Any thoughts here?

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5847401

     That might be the flat setting, if, that is, there is one. The goal should be to find a setting that works for different kinds of music.

[Bogey]

     That might be the flat setting, if, that is, there is one. The goal should be to find a setting that works for different kinds of music.

Right.  I just sampled Miss You by the Stones.  Without the Diamonds, could not tell the difference.  Sounded AWESOME!  Now, with REM Fall on Me the Diamonds add a nice touch.  This is so freakin fun I cannot tell you. 

Oh, should I put my floor speakers on top of anything?  Bricks, wood, carpet....?

Daverz,
You an MIT grad?  Dang man.  I will have to read over the sites a bit more slowly and get back with you.  Thanks for the links.  I am continuing to learn. 

[71 dB]

Explain transparency a bit if you do not mind.

A transparent audio chain has an impulse response that is very impulse-like. Impulse response is simply the response to impulse (very short strong pulse). Below is an example of an actual impulse responce of a loudspeaker:

Click the thumbnail for bigger picture

If amplifier sends a very short (positive) strong pulse to this loudspeaker, this is what comes out (2.5 m from the loudspeaker on tweeter axis). We see that not only is there a large pulse up (positive) but also almost as strong negative dip. the response oscillates for a while before dying out. Why does a sharp positive pulse turn into this kind of mess? It's because the frequence responses of loudspeakers aren't totally flat. Also, the lowest frequencies are strongly attenuated. Frequencies are delayed differently; lower frequencies take more time "to come out." These are some of the reasons why transparency isn't 100 %. It's up to our ears if this is transparent enough.

This impulse response was measured (by me and my friend using MLSSA) in an anechoic chamber. A normal listening room acoustics will dramatically lower the degree of transparency.

Impulse response describes completely the behavior of a linear system.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Another way of looking it, Bill, is that the frequency spectrum of an impulse signal is very wide. If your system's frequency response is perfect you will recover every one of those frequency contents at the output. But nothing is ideal. These different frequencies will have different propagation delays (travel at different velocies if you will) down a cable AND the speakers will have different gains and phase shifts as a function of frequency.

[Valentino]

You could of course have a "perfect" frequency response and still have a far from perfect impulse response. A "perfect" impulse response yields a a "perfect" frequency response.

If I had room for it I'd have 5 channels for the same reasons as 71dB, but we have chosen to have music in the main living room and TV elsewhere.

My stereo is somewhat uncommon.
The main speakers use two SEAS Excel 5" Al-Mg midbass drivers with neodynium magnets and one Mundorf AMT (Heil principle) tweeter in MTM configuration. They are driven by an amplifier based on the B&O ICEpower125ASX class D 2x60W into 8 ohm module. A 2nd order passive filter roll them off from ~120Hz.
The subwoofers each use two Beyma 12" drivers in ELF tuning, i.e. they operate below the cabinet tuning frequency. Amps are again ICEpower, this time one 500ASP per side. Bass crossover and EQ is handled by the Behringer DCX2496 (second mention in this thread). This whole condondrum is called tangenAVdesign System.
The control center is the ingenious Logitech Slimdevices Transporter. Most of my music is FLAC now, the ripped CDs are stored away. The Transporter of course plays internet radio too.
I also have a collection of LPs that I play on an old SOTA Sapphire with a Well Tempered Classic tone arm. RIAA is a SAT Phonofix, and the signal is then digitized by a RME ADI-2 and fed to the Transporter by optical SPDIF.
An old CD-player is also connected to the Transporter. Visitors sometimes bring their own music.


The funny thing on the ceiling is an acoustic absorber. I'm a nearfielder, as you may see. The listening chair is not always placed in the listening position.


I am planning other Slimdevices-boxes in other parts of the house. Bedroom, kids rooms etc. All users accessing the same server but picking their music or web streams of choice. For the main system I'm planning a convolver to get the "perfect" impulse response. The transporter supports an effect loop. Smart box, did I mention that?

[Daverz]

The main speakers use two SEAS Excel 5" Al-Mg midbass drivers with neodynium magnets and one Mundorf AMT (Heil principle) tweeter in MTM configuration. They are driven by an amplifier based on the B&O ICEpower125ASX class D 2x60W into 8 ohm module. A 2nd order passive filter roll them off from ~120Hz.
The subwoofers each use two Beyma 12" drivers in ELF tuning, i.e. they operate below the cabinet tuning frequency. Amps are again ICEpower, this time one 500ASP per side. Bass crossover and EQ is handled by the Behringer DCX2496 (second mention in this thread). This whole condondrum is called tangenAVdesign System.

Is this something you put together yourself from pre-existing plans?

[Bogey]

The control center is the ingenious Logitech Slimdevices Transporter. Most of my music is FLAC now, the ripped CDs are stored away. The Transporter of course plays internet radio too.
I also have a collection of LPs that I play on an old SOTA Sapphire with a Well Tempered Classic tone arm. RIAA is a SAT Phonofix, and the signal is then digitized by a RME ADI-2 and fed to the Transporter by optical SPDIF.

How does this effect the analogue (which is obviously no longer analogue) sound when playing lps?

[Daverz]

How does this effect the analogue (which is obviously no longer analogue) sound when playing lps?

In my current NHT Xd system, everything goes through additional analog->digital and digital signal processing steps.  The result to my ears seems completely transparent, though there isn't a way to listen without the processing.   

[Bogey]

In my current NHT Xd system, everything goes through additional analog->digital and digital signal processing steps.  The result to my ears seems completely transparent, though there isn't a way to listen without the processing.   

So, no change from what you can detect.  That is cool!

[Bogey]

Sorry to throw this one out again, but should I raise my floor speakers up off the floor a bit?

[Valentino]

Is this something you put together yourself from pre-existing plans?

It's a commercially available system, but in very small series and only in Norway.

[Valentino]

How does this effect the analogue (which is obviously no longer analogue) sound when playing lps?

It may not be completely transparent, Bogey, but a better performing AD-converter costs more than I'm willing to pay. And in an A/B test I might not notice a difference, so...
Anyway: It sounds like LPs. I sample at 24 bit 96kHz btw.

[Que]

Sorry to throw this one out again, but should I raise my floor speakers up off the floor a bit?

If you'd want to avoid extra resonance by a wooden floor, yes.
Put it on something non-resonant like special spikes, but ordinary brick works as well.

Q

[71 dB]

Sorry to throw this one out again, but should I raise my floor speakers up off the floor a bit?

What speakers do you have? Floor speakers are (or at least should be) designed so that you don't need to raise them. Usually tweeter is supposed to be on the same level as your ears when you sit down to listen.

What do you want to gain by raising the speakers? Avoid reflection? What is wrong with the sound?