What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

[Todd]

I have a pair of custom speakers on order from Salk Sound which should be done in the next week or two, but in the interim I snagged these one-of-a-kind speakers direct from Dennis Murphy, the dude who designs Salk's crossovers (including mine), and has his own speaker line called Philharmonic Audio.  They are an updated version of the ACI Sapphire IIIs.  The main driver is the same Focal Kevlar woofer as the ACI, but the tweeter is the insanely bargain priced Vifa XT25 - $35-ish a pop for a frequency response curve that even some $400-a-pop tweeters can't match.  (The HD is perhaps not as good as some uber-high end tweets, but hey, the CSD is pretty freakin' sweet, too.) 

Anyway, these speakers have no real bass (cutoff is around 60 Hz), but from that point up they are superb.  I've listened to a number of discs and radio broadcasts, and I have nary a complaint.  A guitar and flute sonata (can't recall the composer right now), sounded smooth and supremely clear.  Sure, they can't play loud, and when I heard Massive Attack's Angel on the radio, the lack of bass induced a chuckle (it was unfair to listen to that song), but limits aside, these bad boys are among the biggest bargain I've stumbled across.  Since it is literally the only pair in existence, I count myself very lucky.  The super bargain price ($275 for speakers with components topping $200 in my estimation) just adds to the overall good feeling.  A chamber music fan's dream come true, I tell ya'. 

[Fëanor]

...
I have a pair of custom speakers on order from Salk Sound which should be done in the next week or two, but in the interim I snagged these one-of-a-kind speakers direct from Dennis Murphy, the dude who designs Salk's crossovers (including mine), and has his own speaker line called Philharmonic Audio.  They are an updated version of the ACI Sapphire IIIs.  The main driver is the same Focal Kevlar woofer as the ACI, but the tweeter is the insanely bargain priced Vifa XT25 - $35-ish a pop for a frequency response curve that even some $400-a-pop tweeters can't match.  (The HD is perhaps not as good as some uber-high end tweets, but hey, the CSD is pretty freakin' sweet, too.) 

Anyway, these speakers have no real bass (cutoff is around 60 Hz), but from that point up they are superb.  I've listened to a number of discs and radio broadcasts, and I have nary a complaint.  A guitar and flute sonata (can't recall the composer right now), sounded smooth and supremely clear.  Sure, they can't play loud, and when I heard Massive Attack's Angel on the radio, the lack of bass induced a chuckle (it was unfair to listen to that song), but limits aside, these bad boys are among the biggest bargain I've stumbled across.  Since it is literally the only pair in existence, I count myself very lucky.  The super bargain price ($275 for speakers with components topping $200 in my estimation) just adds to the overall good feeling.  A chamber music fan's dream come true, I tell ya'.

Sounds good, Todd. And they seems like a bargain.  The bass difficiency will be solved by use of a subwoofer. So, potentially, will be the loudness issue.

The ideal way to use the subwoofer is to have it carry all the sound below 80 Hz. You get this if you can use a low-pass filter to send the sub sound below 80 Hz and (N.B.) a high-pass filter that will send your main speakers only sound above 80 Hz.  The Salks will play louder without distortion because they won't have to try to reproduce the lowest notes. Unfortunately obtaining the high-pass filter can be a problem; most subwoofers provide only the low-pass filter they require, and most integrated amps and preamps  don't provide the high-pass as feature.

[Todd]

After much contemplation, and a decent amount of time perusing the measurements on the Zaph audio site, I decided that the best solution for my last pair of floorstanding speakers for many years (barring a massive influx of heretofore unidentified cash) would be to go for a custom design.  I wanted maximum bass output, dynamic headroom, and overall clarity from the smallest possible speaker.  Seas Excel W16 woofers to the rescue - they have the same xmax as the 10" Excel drivers.  (I contemplated the equally impressive ScanSpeak Illuminators, but the T/S parameters bump up against MLTL limits from what I have read, and I didn't want a standard ported design.)  I also opted for an "exotic" finish (quilted maple with a double dye process).  My current speakers use the W15s, so sonically, they are just a bit thinner sounding than what will be arriving at my door on Tuesday.  I kept the insanely good RAAL ribbon tweeter - I just can't go back to domes for long term listening.  Salk Sound may add this design to their product offerings.  If my expectations are met - and both of the other pairs of Salks I have bought exceeded expectations - I'll be a happy camper.  They took three months to build from order to delivery, but that's fine by me.

[HIPster]

Thanks for the update and photos, Todd.

Absolutely gorgeous finish on those speakers.

I look forward to further posts on listening to those beauties once they are up and running.

Congrats!

[Fëanor]

...
I wanted maximum bass output, dynamic headroom, and overall clarity from the smallest possible speaker.  Seas Excel W16 woofers to the rescue - they have the same xmax as the 10" Excel drivers.  (I contemplated the equally impressive ScanSpeak Illuminators, but the T/S parameters bump up against MLTL limits from what I have read, and I didn't want a standard ported design.)  I also opted for an "exotic" finish (quilted maple with a double dye process).  My current speakers use the W15s, so sonically, they are just a bit thinner sounding than what will be arriving at my door on Tuesday.  I kept the insanely good RAAL ribbon tweeter - I just can't go back to domes for long term listening.  Salk Sound may add this design to their product offerings.  If my expectations are met - and both of the other pairs of Salks I have bought exceeded expectations - I'll be a happy camper.  They took three months to build from order to delivery, but that's fine by me.

So I guess those are the Salk SongTower Supercharged? Congrats! No doubt they are great.

It's interesting that their transmission line design permits placement closer to the walls without the usual issues. (see HERE)

[Todd]

So I guess those are the Salk SongTower Supercharged? Congrats! No doubt they are great.

They are more like Supercharged Supercharged SongTowers.  Jim is looking for a new name, and will probably put them in the Veracity line.  The standard SCST uses W15s; those are what I currently use in my main system.

[marvinbrown]

  Dear all,

I need help. So please help.  I am 40 years old and have grown up listening to cassettes and now CDs/mp3/AAC files. I am now seriously thinking of getting a turntable.  Why? Well, I have been hearing (pun intended) how much better analogue recordings sound than their digital counterparts and I am intrigued. Yes I know about the pops and clicks but if the sound is considerably better (IE more alive, more like the real perfromance) then I would like to investigate further.  I am considering the Project Debut Carbon turntable.  Is this a wise investment? Or am I headed (unnecessarily) down a narrow dark alley? Should I just stick to CDs instead?

  Please help!

  marvin

[The new erato]

Or am I headed (unnecessarily) down a narrow dark alley? Should I just stick to CDs instead?

  Please help!

  marvin

Only you can tell. But be aware that there ARE differences between CD players and DACS, and that the serious stuff can make a significant difference also in the digital domain.

[marvinbrown]

Only you can tell. But be aware that there ARE differences between CD players and DACS, and that the serious stuff can make a significant difference also in the digital domain.

  Thank you for the quick reply.  I have a decent DAC (the Marantz CD6004) which produces remarkably accurate sound.  But I have been reading that there is something about the sound of vinyl, it being analogue and all that gives a unique and more realistic accurate sound that digital is just incapable of delivering. Is there any truth to this? Or am I better off upgrading the CD/DAC player instead?

  marvin
 

[The new erato]

  Thank you for the quick reply.  I have a decent DAC (the Marantz CD6004) which produces remarkably accurate sound.  But I have been reading that there is something about the sound of vinyl, it being analogue and all that gives a unique and more realistic accurate sound that digital is just incapable of delivering. Is there any truth to this? Or am I better off upgrading the CD/DAC player instead?

  marvin

Analog sound can be amazingly realistic. As can digital sound, given that things are done right. What wins out for me is the convenience, availability and price of digital music vs vinyl. Getting an LP player to sound right requires somededication, and for me it seems that it requires some interest in the medium in addition to the interest in the music. As I said - whether it is right for you is difficult to tell. I have 1000 LPs and a LP player, but never use them. But I also have a 4000 USD digital rig, as well as a couple of  CD/SACD players at around half that price.

[jlaurson]

  Thank you for the quick reply.  I have a decent DAC (the Marantz CD6004) which produces remarkably accurate sound.  But I have been reading that there is something about the sound of vinyl, it being analogue and all that gives a unique and more realistic accurate sound that digital is just incapable of delivering. Is there any truth to this? Or am I better off upgrading the CD/DAC player instead?

  marvin

I am convinced that the overwhelming part of why vinyl sounds better than digital formats do is psychological -- namely found in the reason that the very act of taking a vinyl out, placing it on the turn table, placing the needle, putting the LP cover off to the side, and sitting down -- that this ritual focuses the mind, enhanced concentration, and therefore gives the impression of better sound, thanks too the much keener listening that results. It's really the same as decanting a red wine (instead of having it on tap in boxes) or the stuffing of a pipe instead of the quick cigarette...

[marvinbrown]

Analog sound can be amazingly realistic. As can digital sound, given that things are done right. What wins out for me is the convenience, availability and price of digital music vs vinyl. Getting an LP player to sound right requires somededication, and for me it seems that it requires some interest in the medium in addition to the interest in the music. As I said - whether it is right for you is difficult to tell. I have 1000 LPs and a LP player, but never use them. But I also have a 4000 USD digital rig, as well as a couple of  CD/SACD players at around half that price.

  I hear what you say about convenience.  If I am going to entertain vinyl further it will probably be for recordings that mean the most to me- the one's I like best. You have a superb setup by the way (nice pictures on your link). It far exceeds anything I'll ever have.  I was struck by how you have 1000 LPs but never use them.  This is a clear indication to me that the "vinyl" sound is not all it is cracked up to be. Anyway, I will experiment, vinly records can be had for £1 at my local oxfam.  I figured it would be worth a shot.  thank you so much for your feedback.

I am convinced that the overwhelming part of why vinyl sounds better than digital formats do is psychological -- namely found in the reason that the very act of taking a vinyl out, placing it on the turn table, placing the needle, putting the LP cover off to the side, and sitting down -- that this ritual focuses the mind, enhanced concentration, and therefore gives the impression of better sound, thanks too the much keener listening that results. It's really the same as decanting a red wine (instead of having it on tap in boxes) or the stuffing of a pipe instead of the quick cigarette...

  Talk about "romanticizing" an experience!  Nice post btw.

  marvin

[Todd]

But I have been reading that there is something about the sound of vinyl

Vinyl sounds warmer and has more distortion than digital.  Which one sounds better is purely a matter of preference.  For classical, I generally find digital better, though string quartets sound superb, and some piano recordings are quite good.  Vinyl works better for much rock and jazz.  The biggest drawback is selection: very few new recordings are released on LP. 

[The new erato]

Vinyl sounds warmer and has more distortion than digital.  Which one sounds better is purely a matter of preference.   The biggest drawback is selection: very few new recordings are released on LP.

My opinion exactly. Remember: even harmonics are very musical and may be the reason some people prefer vinyl and tubes - which have lots of them. You have to work out what works for you.

[Fëanor]

  Dear all,

I need help. So please help.  I am 40 years old and have grown up listening to cassettes and now CDs/mp3/AAC files. I am now seriously thinking of getting a turntable.  Why? Well, I have been hearing (pun intended) how much better analogue recordings sound than their digital counterparts and I am intrigued. Yes I know about the pops and clicks but if the sound is considerably better (IE more alive, more like the real perfromance) then I would like to investigate further.  I am considering the Project Debut Carbon turntable.  Is this a wise investment? Or am I headed (unnecessarily) down a narrow dark alley? Should I just stick to CDs instead?

  Please help!

  marvin

If you're a mainly a classical listener, stick to CD where the selection is many times greater.  People who argue for vinyl and are also classical listeners most often have large LP collections that date back to 1990 & earlier when LP was still the prevalent medium.

Does LP sound better?  Well read what others have said here.  Personally I say it doesn't if you have good reproduction equipment, (though LP sounds different so there is matter of simple preference).

For several years now I buy most of my music on CD but rip it immediately to lossless computer files, (FLAC or ALAC), and listen exclusively from my dedicated music computer. Basically I never listen to actual "silver discs" any more. Note that good external DACs can sound much, much better than the standard, build-in computer DACs, (the ubiquitous Realtek audio chips).

Becoming more common are CD-quality and even higher resolution downloads; such downloads might eventually displace "silver discs" but for now physical CDs offer by far the greatest selection. SACD, (also silver disc), is an option for the classical listener though a special SACD player is necessary and, again, the selection is much smaller than CD.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

  I am considering the Project Debut Carbon turntable.  Is this a wise investment?

Marvin - that's the turntable I just got. I can't compare turntables, but I can tell you I'm fairly hooked on vinyl now. 

[marvinbrown]

  Dear All,

  First of all I would like to thank everyone here for contributing to the discussion.  I very much appreciate all of your inputs and I am very gratefull to you all.  As I understand it now, vinyl sounds "different" and "different" is not necessarily "better" ( IE a more accurate life sounding sound).  "Better" sound comes from mastering techniques.  But more importantly, the more I am researching vinyl the more I am concerned about the added "work" that will be required to clean and maintain records, flip records over (Wagner's Ring for example is on 22 double sided records, which means that I am going to have to get up 43 times after side 1), replace cartridges which costs money...and then there is the issue of it degrading with every playback, rewind and fastforward also become issues....oh dear.................. That said I am not prepared to close the door on vinyl just yet, I need to hear a demonstration first.  I have scheduled one this Friday. I am trying to be as open minded as I possible can about this.

   PS: It is not my intention to leave the CD/digital domain. Oh no, I have invested heavily in this medium, but if there is something additional that vinyl could add, why not?

  marvin

 

[The new erato]

I think you are going about this the right way.

[Fëanor]

  Dear All,

  First of all I would like to thank everyone here for contributing to the discussion.  I very much appreciate all of your inputs and I am very gratefull to you all.  As I understand it now, vinyl sounds "different" and "different" is not necessarily "better" ( IE a more accurate life sounding sound).  "Better" sound comes from mastering techniques.  But more importantly, the more I am researching vinyl the more I am concerned about the added "work" that will be required to clean and maintain records, flip records over (Wagner's Ring for example is on 22 double sided records, which means that I am going to have to get up 43 times after side 1), replace cartridges which costs money...and then there is the issue of it degrading with every playback, rewind and fastforward also become issues....oh dear.................. That said I am not prepared to close the door on vinyl just yet, I need to hear a demonstration first.  I have scheduled one this Friday. I am trying to be as open minded as I possible can about this.

   PS: It is not my intention to leave the CD/digital domain. Oh no, I have invested heavily in this medium, but if there is something additional that vinyl could add, why not?

  marvin

Frankly the "work" as you accurately refer to it, was a big factor that send me to CD in the mid '80s, not the sound, nor the selection at the time. Others were the finite life time of LPs.

However quite a few vinyl lovers perversely love the rituals of LP handling and turntable tuning -- go figure.  I can't even stand physical CD handling any more: give me point & click.

A "last straw" for me was the time I accidentally smashed a $500 cartridge the first time I used it.   

[marvinbrown]

A "last straw" for me was the time I accidentally smashed a $500 cartridge the first time I used it.   

  Ouch! I am so sorry to hear about that.  I have heard that cartdriges tend to be a bit fragile.  I didn't think they were THAT fragile.

Marvin - that's the turntable I just got. I can't compare turntables, but I can tell you I'm fairly hooked on vinyl now. 

  Congratulations on your new turntable.  I would like to ask you if you had replace the cartridge yet?  I have been told that if I play records frequently the cartridge needs to be replaced once every 6 months.

  marvin