Some aspects I love about the Christian religion

[Florestan]

If you look at everything that Jesus Christ demands of us and the highmindedness of it all, there is not much room left to engage in other activites that come very naturally to us (i.e. aesthetic, intellectual, philosophical)

Eric, you misconstrue both Christianity and human nature.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Eric, you misconstrue both Christianity and human nature.

How have I misconstrued Christianity ?

[david johnson]

'If you look at everything that Jesus Christ demands of us'

that is summed up in 'caring for others as you would for yourself' & 'respecting God'...His answers to what is the greatest commandment.
developing a selfless attitude and being worshipful does not preclude cultural endeavors.

dj

[karlhenning]

How have I misconstrued Christianity ?

Well, that and a hundred other matters.  So Christianity doesn't take it personally.

[DavidW]

No, not quite...   

Alright I follow you now.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Well, that and a hundred other matters.  So Christianity doesn't take it personally.

It was a  question  to Andrei, not you.

Why do you come in here with that sarcastic tone ?  Your first post here was the same.  And you claim to be a Christian, yes ?

Do you see a part of my point now ?

[Brian]

I think I know where this thread is going:

[PSmith08]

Since "meekness," at least in a modern sense, is a centerpiece of the OP, I think that I should take a moment to correct the misapprehension in that argument. I think ZB made an excellent point, one which I believe merits some elucidation. I should say that I'll assume that the textual traditions have given us more or less what was meant, though that's a whole field of study. Let's begin with our text, Matthew 5:5, which even the fairly vanilla NRSV translates as "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth." The commentators in The New Oxford Annotated Bible give us a note, however, "Meek, not 'submissive' or 'inconsequential' but aware of one's proper position in the kingdom; not overweening." (NOAB: NT p. 13.) A good philologist would never take a commentator at his or her word, not least because of the range of meanings that don't quite work in modern English. So, let's look at the Greek New Testament. I'll use the Nestle-Aland version, 27th ed., largely because it's my Greek NT and it's a fairly solid choice for people who really care about textual study in this field. The key word in Matt. 5:5 is, transliterated, praeis, which is (unless I'm way off here) the nominative plural of praos. How does the "Middle Liddell" (a fairly decent Greek lexicon) define that? "Mild, soft, gentle, meek." Now, my limited Greek is Attic Greek, and the NT is written in Koine Greek. There might be a few problems with my exegesis and my philology. Let us, then, turn to the Vulgate, which (after all) was translated from Koine to Latin by folks somewhat closer to the events in question than you and me. The key word there is "mites," which is the nominative plural of "mitis," which Lewis, in his Elementary Latin Dictionary (though it's not all that elementary by today's standards), translates as "mild, soft, gentle, lenient, kind." Now, there's some overlap there. Let's assume, then, that we'll take a consensus approach to our problem. The words mean essentially the same thing: "mild, soft, gentle." There is the flaw with the OP. Where is the theme of provocation or a reluctance to assert oneself? Someone who is "mild, soft, [or] gentle" need not be provoked to evince those traits, nor would s/he be reluctant to assert him- or herself.

[Florestan]

How have I misconstrued Christianity ?

I thank david johnosn and PSmith68 for answering this question in my stead.

As for misconstrueing human nature, I'll add that aesthetical and philosophical endeavours ar not at all "very natural" to us. The sense of beauty or the love of wisdom don't float in the air, nor do they grow in trees. They must be instilled and constantly cultivated in order to bear fruits. What come naturally to us is shallowness and mediocrity.

[Herman]

I thank david johnosn and PSmith68 for answering this question in my stead.

As for misconstrueing human nature, I'll add that aesthetical and philosophical endeavours ar not at all "very natural" to us. The sense of beauty or the love of wisdom don't float in the air, nor do they grow in trees. They must be instilled and constantly cultivated in order to bear fruits. What come naturally to us is shallowness and mediocrity.

What am I doing in this thread? Not much, but I would just like to disagree with the above. From very early on children (can) have a distinct aesthetical sense, preferring beautiful things (i.e. things they find beautiful) to ugly things, etc, and they don't need to be told so. Obviously they may later on need some help in more complicated aesthetic constructs, but even about this I'm not too sure. The most important thing is to have good and beautiful things on offer, and this, clearly, is what is lacking in most lives.

So pardon me for saying so, I think you're equally misconstruing human nature.

[karlhenning]

It was a  question  to Andrei, not you.

This is a thread in a forum.  If I (say) had a particular question to which I desired one person, and that person only, to respond, I should not post that question in a public forum, where (implicitly) questions are subject to several answers.

Why do you come in here with that sarcastic tone ?  Your first post here was the same.  And you claim to be a Christian, yes ?

Being a Christian does not imply pandering to narcissism.  Your thread title uses the first-person singular pronoun as the subject of the sole verb, and that verb is a signifier of your personal preference.  My initial post is purely informational, not in the least sarcastic.

Do you see a part of my point now ?

That you are judgemental, narrow-minded, and take a hostile view to that with which you disagree?  O Whingemeister, that has been clear to the entire forum for years.

[Herman]

Karl, Eric, wouldn't it be just as handy (or maybe even handier) to leave each other alone?

One thing's for sure, you're never going to agree.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Patrick,

There is the flaw with the OP. Where is the theme of provocation or a reluctance to assert oneself? Someone who is "mild, soft, [or] gentle" need not be provoked to evince those traits, nor would s/he be reluctant to assert him- or herself.

Although this doesn't affect my original question, I take your point... Thanks.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Herman,

I would just like to disagree with the above. From very early on children (can) have a distinct aesthetical sense, preferring beautiful things (i.e. things they find beautiful) to ugly things, etc, and they don't need to be told so. Obviously they may later on need some help in more complicated aesthetic constructs, but even about this I'm not too sure. The most important thing is to have good and beautiful things on offer, and this, clearly, is what is lacking in most lives.

Agreed, yes...

[Homo Aestheticus]

Karl,

Being a Christian does not imply pandering to narcissism.

Friend, this has nothing to do with narcissism. I merely wanted to get some input from Christians and non-believers on an issue that has puzzled me.

That you are judgemental, narrow-minded, and take a hostile view to that with which you disagree?  O Whingemeister, that has been clear to the entire forum for years.

Being 'judgmental and narrowminded' in aesthetic matters as I am is really not a big deal.

[Homo Aestheticus]

David,

Thanks.

'If you look at everything that Jesus Christ demands of us'

that is summed up in 'caring for others as you would for yourself' & 'respecting God'...His answers to what is the greatest commandment.
developing a selfless attitude and being worshipful does not preclude cultural endeavors.

Only 'caring' and 'respecting' ? 

Is that unique to Christianity ?  I recall  Socrates'  admonition in the Apology :

"O my friend, why do you who are a citizen of the great and mighty and wise city of Athens , care so much about laying up the greatest amount of money and honor and reputation, and so little about wisdom and truth and the greatest improvement of the soul, which you never regard or heed at all ? Are you not ashamed of this ? And if the person with whom I am arguing says: Yes, but I do care; I do not depart or let him go at once; I interrogate and examine and cross-examine him, and if I think that he has no virtue, but only says that he has, I reproach him with undervaluing the greater, and overvaluing the less. And this I should say to everyone whom I meet, young and old, citizen and alien, but especially to the citizens, inasmuch as they are my brethren. For this is the command of God..."

****

Now contrast this with my three quotations at the beginning of this thread or re-read "The Sermon on The Mount'... Needless to say, the Christian message is much more radical.

Developing a selfless attitude and being worshipful does not preclude cultural endeavors

When I read the teachings of Jesus and the epistles of Saint Paul there just  seems  to be very little room left for those things.

Also, would a person who truly has been 'born again' really have much desire to pursue the arts or letters ? 

[Florestan]

Also, would a person who truly has been 'born again' really have much desire to pursue the arts or letters ? 

A genuine Christian has no problem pursuing the arts and letters, if only for the glory of God and in the service of his fellow people. This has been done for centuries by Catholic and Orthodox Christians, starting with the early Fathers of the Church.

[karlhenning]

Also, would a person who truly has been 'born again' really have much desire to pursue the arts or letters ? 

So, this thread is not really about what you like about the Christian religion, but is in fact another occasion for you to air your spleen.

Gosh, what a surprise! (<-- that, Eric, is sarcasm; the first I've offered on this thread.)

[Homo Aestheticus]

Andrei,

A genuine Christian has no problem pursuing the arts and letters, if only for the glory of God and in the service of his fellow people. This has been done for centuries by Catholic and Orthodox Christians, starting with the early Fathers of the Church.

What would Jesus have said about theology ?

If I want to learn more about Christianity is it really necessary for me to read academicians like Saint Thomas Aquinas or Reinhold Niebuhr ?

It's often depressing to read works by Christian theologians since their writing can get very technical and impenetrable.

[Haffner]

I thank david johnosn and PSmith68 for answering this question in my stead.

The sense of beauty or the love of wisdom don't float in the air, nor do they grow in trees. They must be instilled and constantly cultivated in order to bear fruits.

There's something very beautiful about this. But, I wonder about naturally breathtaking sights, sounds, etc.