Bach Chamber and Instrumental music

[prémont]

Well there's also Nordstoga & Lotsberg - and I mention the organist first because that's how it comes across in the recording   It's beautiful music in its way but the violinist is a bit recessed in the mix and sounds a bit 'second fiddle' in the middle of a big empty church.  I think Edouard & Eichelberger that I mentioned upthread is a much more interesting recording - though often there is more tremolo in the organ than there is vibrato in the violin - a strange reversal.

There are also two MI recordings with organ, Michelle Auclair / Marie-Claire Alain and Jochen Brusch / Svend Mikkelsen, but honestly I don't find them competitive.

[SonicMan46]

Thanks ALL for the comments - decided that I wanted to add just one and picked the Ghielmi brothers (on sale at PrestoMusic) mainly for a different slant on the performances w/ use of a fortepiano.  Dave   RE: Gamba Sonatas

Well, I'm confused and may have purchased the wrong Ghielmi brothers recording?  I was interested in the fortepiano and assumed that it was the KB instrument for all of the works - the first pic below is what I ordered from PrestoMusic on the Passacaille label, and landed today; the booklet notes described Lorenzo using harpsichord and fortepiano (both copies by Andrea Restelli, Milan); the 3 'gamba sonatas' are intermixed w/ 3 Preludes & Fugues from WTC II - in listening my feeling is that the Sonatas are on harpsichord and the P&Fs are on fortepiano - the recording date is 2011.

Now, in looking at the second image and reading David Vernier's review of this recording in Classics Today, the same mixture of works is described, stated to be recorded in 1997 w/ a fortepiano after Silbermann - so appears that these two bros put down the same program 14+ years apart and used the KBs differently on another label?  I sent an email to Lorenzo's website but not sure if there will be a response?  Any clarification from those who may know both of these recordings?  Thanks.  Dave

 

[prémont]

RE: Gamba Sonatas

It's about two different recordings. In the Ars Music recording only fortepiano is used. And also two of the WTC pieces differ.

See Bach Cantatas website here:

https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Ghielmi-V.htm

[SonicMan46]

RE: Gamba Sonatas

It's about two different recordings. In the Ars Music recording only fortepiano is used. And also two of the WTC pieces differ.

See Bach Cantatas website here: https://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Ghielmi-V.htm

Well, understood two different labels, years, and recordings but was curious how the two KB instruments were used on the 'newer' CD that I purchased - WELL, surprise - Lorenzo Ghielmi answered my email the next day, as quoted below - so, of the 6 works on the recording, the first four are performed on the fortepiano and last two on the harpsichord.

For those interested, the fortepiano (pic below from link in email) is a copy by Andrea Restelli (Milan, 1996) after Gottfried Silbermann (1749); the harpsichord also a copy by Andrea Restelli (Milan, 2003) after Christian Vater (Hanover, 1738) - the discussion in the link was in Italian - I've translated to English for those not conversant in the language (the web translation tools are amazing!) and now in the attachment.  Dave

Hallo. I recorded the G and D sonatas with piano and the g minor with harpsichord. The WTK I with Harpsichord and the WTK II with piano....
In the booklet you find information.

On Bach and the piano here:  https://lorenzoghielmi.com/johann-sebastian-bach-e-il-pianoforte/

Cordiali saluti - LG

 

[prémont]

Well, understood two different labels, years, and recordings but was curious how the two KB instruments were used on the 'newer' CD that I purchased ...

Well, I didn't realize, that this was the problem, since it could be solved by a simple listening test.

[milk]

Am I right that there are only two recordings of the violin and keyboard music with piano? - the Capucon/Fray and the Dauteicourt/Pohjonen?

[Mandryka]

I'm sure there are lots. Michelle Makarski, whose manner I like, did one with Keith Jarrett, whose manner I also like,  for example.

[milk]

This has chamber organ. I'm not sure it has been discussed. This has a mild and subdued quality to it. I might say more about it later.

I'm sure there are lots. Michelle Makarski, whose manner I like, did one with Keith Jarrett, whose manner I also like,  for example.

Makarski is strangely well in the background on that recording. Just an observation. It might be good otherwise. I know you weren't necessarily recommending it. But I'm listening to the Tognetti. I didn't know him. He's mellow. The chamber organ adds to that effect. In the E Major, especially the adagio ma non tanto, they switch to harpsichord but the use of Gamba as obbligato (Daniel Yeadon) adds something sweet and forlorn. In the C minor they go back to the chamber organ and it really, again, makes for a mellow and mournful emotion.
This recording really appeals to me. I like Tognetti, again, for his mildness. 

It's really hard to get used to listening to modern violin after l enjoying HIP baroque. To me, it's just jarring and ultimately not as good. The tones of the two instruments (piano and violin) don't even mix together somehow.

With less vibrato, this works a bit better. ETA much better!

[Mandryka]

Makarski is strangely well in the background on that recording.

Not at all on the equipment I'm using, with the Spotify stream. These things must be able to modify the balance. I'm quite surprised at that actually, it's sort of quite important.

[milk]

Not at all on the equipment I'm using, with the Spotify stream. These things must be able to modify the balance. I'm quite surprised at that actually, it's sort of quite important.

I might try it on headphones some time then. I really do like it when performances are geared towards intimacy. 

[Mandryka]

Keith Jarrett does a nice job of his solo in 1019

[Selig]

Am I right that there are only two recordings of the violin and keyboard music with piano? - the Capucon/Fray and the Dauteicourt/Pohjonen?

Viktoria Mullova and Bruno Canino did nos. 1, 2 & 6 at least. I remember liking Canino's solo in 1019

[Mandryka]

I'm also rather partial to organ accompaniment in this music:


Bach Sonatas for Violin and Keyboard - Edouard, Eichelberger

I just listened to 1018. I don't think Odile Édouard's style works for me in 18th century music, somehow the articulation takes away the life of the music and the whole thing sounds self conscious and heavy. And the last movement sounded almost chaotic to me. I didn't like it much when it came out and I feel the same today.  I'm sticking with Pierot and Gester.

[Jo498]

Am I right that there are only two recordings of the violin and keyboard music with piano? - the Capucon/Fray and the Dauteicourt/Pohjonen?

There must be a few older ones, maybe not all complete, although Menuhin in the 1950s already has harpsichord accompaniment.
There is Laredo/Gould and more recently Zimmermann/Pace

[prémont]

There must be a few older ones, maybe not all complete, although Menuhin in the 1950s already has harpsichord accompaniment.
There is Laredo/Gould and more recently Zimmermann/Pace

IIRC there is a complete recording with Menuhin and Louis Kentner at the piano.

[milk]

There must be a few older ones, maybe not all complete, although Menuhin in the 1950s already has harpsichord accompaniment.
There is Laredo/Gould and more recently Zimmermann/Pace

I've listened to a few now, including Zoltán Kocsis and I forget who. I just can't stand them from the very first. 1014 with this vibrato violin fading in sounds ridiculous to me. I'll stick with HIP. These pieces of music are the prime examples of why non-HIP fails when it does fail or why certain pieces of music just don't sound good on moderns.

[prémont]

I've listened to a few now, including Zoltán Kocsis and I forget who. I just can't stand them from the very first. 1014 with this vibrato violin fading in sounds ridiculous to me. I'll stick with HIP. These pieces of music are the prime examples of why non-HIP fails when it does fail or why certain pieces of music just don't sound good on moderns.

I think it's too categorical to reject all non-HIP recordings in that way. Have you heard Lautenbacher / Galling, Barchet / Veyron-Lacroix, Szeryng / Walcha, Schneiderhan / K. Richter and Menuhin / Malcolm?

[Jo498]

All of these use harpsichord, so should be considered proto-informed, I'd say.  To my shame I cannot remember if it was the piano with Kentner or the harpsichord with Malcolm because it was a pirate/grey re-issue CD ("the 50s" or so) but I think it was the issue shown below, so that would have been Kentner (and I cannot find a cheapo grey reissue of the Menuhin/Malcolm). I encountered this in an apartment I lived in for a few months more than 10 years ago while the original tenant was on a sabbatical, so it was his disc and I never owned it but I was positively surprised. Although, back then, I was maybe just happy to have any good music because I had not brought anything and was not able to stream etc.

[Mandryka]

I think it's too categorical to reject all non-HIP recordings in that way. Have you heard Lautenbacher / Galling, Barchet / Veyron-Lacroix, Szeryng / Walcha, Schneiderhan / K. Richter and Menuhin / Malcolm?

Are you forgetting Suk/Ruzickova?

https://archive.org/details/lp_js-bach-zuzana-rikova-josef-suk-sonata-f_johann-sebastian-bach-zuzana-rikova-josef

[prémont]

Are you forgetting Suk/Ruzickova?

https://archive.org/details/lp_js-bach-zuzana-rikova-josef-suk-sonata-f_johann-sebastian-bach-zuzana-rikova-josef

No, I briefly considered including it, but even if it's heart-breaking beautiful, I was not convinced, that this was the kind of interpretation milk wanted.

However I should have included Lautenbacher / Klinkerfuss, but I took too long time to recall the name of Klinkerfuss.