The DRAMA in opera

[marvinbrown]

   Opera fans I would like to hear your opinions concerning DRAMA in opera. A few topics to touch upon:

   1) Where does it come from? 
   2) Is it predominantly in the music and libretto? or do we actually need the visual effect of SEEING an opera performed to realize the DRAMA. Are we (I am guilty of this by the way) doing ourselves a disservice by simply reading the libretto as we listen along? 

  I am asking these questions because only recently have I begun to watch operas on DVD and am sensing that the dramatic effect is amplified when the VISUAL aspect is involved.  My imagination as wild as it can be is proving not to be enough. Special effects, costumes, the stage setting have to come together combining with the music and action on stage to promote DRAMA. 

  How true is this formula?

  SOUND (music and libretto)+SIGHT (action, special effects) = DRAMA?

  marvin

[bhodges]

Like all good fiction, plays, cinema, etc., opera's drama is tied to great storytelling.  The best librettists know how to tell a good tale well and keep the audience interested.  But that said, the great thing about opera is that the best works have a fusion between this literary aspect (the drama) and the music, the latter often telling the story in a way that words cannot.  Having just seen Verdi's Falstaff recently, I was again amazed at Verdi's agility in orchestrating much of the drama, so that even without the words, the music communicates much of the action.

I personally think DVDs are the best thing to happen to recorded opera in a long time.  They don't replace actually being there, but the picture and sound quality make watching opera a vastly improved "at-home experience" than it used to be.

--Bruce

[karlhenning]

Like all good fiction, plays, cinema, etc., opera's drama is tied to great storytelling.

Well, there were these three lovely young women.  Only they really weren't women, because they lived at the bottom of a river.  And they weren't really young, because they were as old as the river.  Fact is, they were sort of the spirit of the river, and if you ask me, If they're not really young women, but the spirit of the river, then why are there three of them? well, you've got me stumped . . . .

[bhodges]

Well, there were these three lovely young women.  Only they really weren't women, because they lived at the bottom of a river.  And they weren't really young, because they were as old as the river.  Fact is, they were sort of the spirit of the river, and if you ask me, If they're not really young women, but the spirit of the river, then why are there three of them? well, you've got me stumped . . . .

Man...I can't imagine who would like that story. 

--Bruce

[mahlertitan]

seeing and hearing are equally important.

[beclemund]

Even listening to the music without libretto in hand, there are multiple auditory cues that can establish the mood of a song, or the drama of an act. In very much the same way you can get the emotional content of spoken word when you're talking on the phone to someone who is alarmed, angry or sad. The voice is a powerful instrument by itself.

Certainly, the combination of all parts of the opera can contribute to the emotional impact. Vocal performance can be complimented by engaging acting within the context of a moving story. Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk notions aside, you can definitely be moved by how an opera touches a single sense.

I will admit, for those operas that I enjoy the most, I prefer seeing them live, owning a DVD for repeat viewings, and I often have multiple readings on audio and each can get me just as engaged in a work and the work's drama. But there are also times where I've watched a recorded performance on DVD that I've loved on CD where I've found the visual performance to be completely distracting and had a negative impact on my engagement in the opera.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Let me see. It is drama when it is La Traviata wth Anna Netrebko.
When it is Tristan starring Jane Eaglen or Turandot with Marton then I would rather just listen to a recording so that the visuals don't ruin it for me.

[marvinbrown]

But there are also times where I've watched a recorded performance on DVD that I've loved on CD where I've found the visual performance to be completely distracting and had a negative impact on my engagement in the opera.

    You found the visual performance to be completely distracting and PerfectWagnerite follows by distinguishing between performances he likes to see and hear and those that displeased him (visually-I take it Jane Eaglen's size had something to do with it) and would much rather only listen to.  So the visual effect does have bearing on one's engagement and it seems that great storytelling (to quote Bruce-libretto and music) can be affected by this.     

  marvin   

[bhodges]

It might be interesting to have a thread on opera DVDs in which the musical elements are compelling, but the visuals don't work (for you) at all.  I've liked the opera DVDs I've seen (perhaps 40-50), but I'm sure there are some clinkers out there. 

--Bruce

[Anne]

It might be interesting to have a thread on opera DVDs in which the musical elements are compelling, but the visuals don't work (for you) at all.  I've liked the opera DVDs I've seen (perhaps 40-50), but I'm sure there are some clinkers out there. 

--Bruce

We could start with the Eurotrash for Wagner's Ring.  The first sight of a business suit in that work - makes the hair on the back of my neck stand straight up to attention.  Grrr!

[bricon]

   Opera fans I would like to hear your opinions concerning DRAMA in opera. A few topics to touch upon:

   1) Where does it come from? 
   2) Is it predominantly in the music and libretto? or do we actually need the visual effect of SEEING an opera performed to realize the DRAMA. Are we (I am guilty of this by the way) doing ourselves a disservice by simply reading the libretto as we listen along? 

Generally speaking the order of dramatic importance of the main aspects of opera are:
1)   Music
2)   Libretto
3)   Mise en scène

There are many operas that are dramatic triumphs which have ridiculous libretti and are staged with less than perfect concepts/sets/costumes; yet I can't think of a dramtically convincing opera that doesn't have a first-rate score.

Some of the most dramatically satisfying operas that I've attended have been concert or semi-staged performances; so although distinctive staging and special effects can enhance an operatic performance, they are not always absolutely necessary.

[uffeviking]

In total agreement with you, Brian! Of the many Walküre performances I have seen and have in my collection, the one I treasure most is the concert performance of the 2005 Proms with Pappano conducting, and stars like Domingo, Terfel and Meier. It is in concert performances where 'the other' star, the conductor, is visible and draws our attention to the importance of the music of the work.

[marvinbrown]

Generally speaking the order of dramatic importance of the main aspects of opera are:
1)   Music
2)   Libretto
3)   Mise en scène

There are many operas that are dramatic triumphs which have ridiculous libretti and are staged with less than perfect concepts/sets/costumes; yet I can't think of a dramtically convincing opera that doesn't have a first-rate score.

Some of the most dramatically satisfying operas that I've attended have been concert or semi-staged performances; so although distinctive staging and special effects can enhance an operatic performance, they are not always absolutely necessary.

   Hello bricon I like how you have placed music above all else and I agree with that.  I am not sure however if Wagner would agree with us.  But then again Wagner was a master at libretto and mise en scene.  For example some of the stage directions he has written are quite extraordinary like  (Valhalla is engulfed in flames in the Ring Cycle) and lets not forget Isolde's transfiguration as she sinks lifeless onto Tristan's Body (that would blow my mind to see).  Something tells me that Wagner wanted to awe his audiences visually in addition to providing them with captivating music.

  marvin

[bricon]

I am not sure however if Wagner would agree with us.  But then again Wagner was a master at libretto and mise en scene. 

I don't know that Wagner is a particularly good example of a "master librettist". If ever a librettist cried out for a sympathetic editor, it was surely Richard Wagner. The fact that Wagner's operas often work better in concert (despite their less than perfect libretti) than in staged performances, seems to reinforce the point that his music is of primary importance in his operas.

[johnshade]

We could start with the Eurotrash ...  The first sight of a business suit ... makes the hair on the back of my neck stand straight up to attention.  Grrr!

I agree. I have made several comments on this board regarding the trashy updated staging of beloved operas, live and on DVD.

[marvinbrown]

I agree. I have made several comments on this board regarding the trashy updated staging of beloved operas, live and on DVD.

  By "eurotrash" do you mean a production in the style of Jean Paul Gaultier? 

I am already having problems understanding the drama of operas with modern adaptations (I can't seem to get over visual productions that stray into the abstract or surreal or have strange futuristic settings) The last thing I need is to see a production inspired by ideas championed by likes of Jean Paul Gaultier.  (Please Note: no offence directed at Gaultier himself)

  marvin

[johnshade]

marvin,

I don't know the origin of the term, but "Eurotrash" seems to the accepted catch-all for describing controversial stagings of opera, especially modern adaptations.

[Josquin des Prez]

I don't know the origin of the term, but "Eurotrash" seems to the accepted catch-all for describing controversial stagings of opera.

Or trashy ones.

[Larry Rinkel]

   Opera fans I would like to hear your opinions concerning DRAMA in opera. A few topics to touch upon:

   1) Where does it come from? 
   2) Is it predominantly in the music and libretto?

I would suggest a reading of Joseph Kerman's Opera as Drama, easily available from Amazon.com.

[marvinbrown]

I would suggest a reading of Joseph Kerman's Opera as Drama, easily available from Amazon.com.

  Yes Larry I am aware that there are many books on this subject and I have recently started looking into these, but I am also interested in YOUR opinion on the subject.  Do you find that an opera must be seen (ie staged) to be truely effective as far as drama is concerned ? and to what extent does the visual aspect of it all add or subtract from your engagement to the drama?  For example many here have voiced their lack of enjoyement (engagement) of opera masterpeices that have "trashy" or "eurotrashy" productions.  Others claim that at times the music alone can set a "dramatic" mood without the need of the "visual effect".

  marvin