A New Defense of Mendelssohn

[jwinter]

ah, well. Let's talk Mendelssohn, rather than turn this into a Diner topic.

Good thought.  Any opinions on Mendelssohn's piano music?  I've listened to his Songs Without Words, but a few days ago I saw a new Arte Nova CD of his piano sonatas, which I didn't even know existed.  Did he write extensively for the piano, and are there any particularly recommendable recordings?

[Josquin des Prez]

As a general rule, someone who claims that racism is not prejudice is probably best served by avoiding references to Orwell.  "Ignorance is Strength" was not intended to be taken literally.   

Ignorance? Do you think it was due to ignorance that James Watson claimed there was a link between race and intelligence? Who's the real bigot here? The one who expresses an opinion, or the one who condemns said opinion based on prejudice, without examining the argument presented? Notice of course that Watson was punished for his claims, and he has been forced to recant his position (in public at least). Wanna talk about Orwellian?

[Florestan]

Good thought.  Any opinions on Mendelssohn's piano music?  I've listened to his Songs Without Words, but a few days ago I saw a new Arte Nova CD of his piano sonatas, which I didn't even know existed. 

That's exactly my case as well, never knew he wrote any piano sonata. If their quality is on a par with the best moments of Songs Without Words then then that CD would be a worthy acquisition, methinks.

[Josquin des Prez]

never knew he wrote any piano sonata.

He wrote three to be exact. I used to own the complete recording of his piano works, but i sold it a while back. Wasn't really impressed with his output in this field.

[Florestan]

(Re: race and racism

I think that it all boils down to answering three questions:

1. Do human races exist as a biological reality?

2. If yes, are there specific and intrinsic traits that are to be found predominantly in this or that race and not in others?

3. If yes again, should this fact bear political and social implications?)

[Florestan]

He wrote three to be exact. 

I suppose they are early works from his enfant prodige years.

[Bulldog]

Ignorance? Do you think it was due to ignorance that James Watson claimed there was a link between race and intelligence?

No, it was based on Watson's bigoted mindset.

[Josquin des Prez]

I suppose they are early works from his enfant prodige years.

I don't know actually. His sonatas are tagged as opus 6, 102 and 106 respectively, but with Mendelssohn opus numbers don't always reflect order of composition. It shouldn't be too hard to find out about it on the net though.

[Josquin des Prez]

No, it was based on Watson's bigoted mindset.

Prove it. Prove to me that racial differences between the races are a result of prejudice and are not based on heredity. Surely, since you know so well that Watson was a racist, you must have a perfect understanding of the subject and conclusive proof his statements were wrong, right?

Here's what Watson has to say on the matter, for those interested:

"I have always fiercely defended the position that we should base our view of the world on the state of our knowledge, on fact, and not on what we would like it to be. This is why genetics is so important. For it will lead us to answers to many of the big and difficult questions that have troubled people for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

...Since 1978, when a pail of water was dumped over my Harvard friend E O Wilson for saying that genes influence human behaviour, the assault against human behavioural genetics by wishful thinking has remained vigorous.

But irrationality must soon recede ... science is not here to make us feel good. It is to answer questions in the service of knowledge and greater understanding.

...We do not yet adequately understand the way in which the different environments in the world have selected over time the genes which determine our capacity to do different things. The overwhelming desire of society today is to assume that equal powers of reason are a universal heritage of humanity. It may well be. But simply wanting this to be the case is not enough. This is not science.

To question this is not to give in to racism. This is not a discussion about superiority or inferiority, it is about seeking to understand differences, about why some of us are great musicians and others great engineers."

[Bulldog]

That's exactly my case as well, never knew he wrote any piano sonata. If their quality is on a par with the best moments of Songs Without Words then then that CD would be a worthy acquisition, methinks.

He composed 7 sonatas for piano.

[Florestan]

I don't know actually. His sonatas are tagged as opus 6, 102 and 106 respectively, but with Mendelssohn opus numbers don't always reflect order of composition. It shouldn't be too hard to find out about it on the net though.

Wikipedia lists them as following:

Op. 6, Piano Sonata No. 1 in E major (1826)
Op. 105, Piano Sonata No. 2 in G minor (1821)
Op. 106, Piano Sonata No. 3 in B-flat major (1827)

So apparently they were composed at 17, 12 and 18 years respectively.

[Bulldog]

Prove it. Prove to me that racial differences between the races are a result of prejudice and are not based on heredity. Surely, since you know so well that Watson was a racist, you must have a perfect understanding of the subject and conclusive proof his statements were wrong, right?

Why don't you prove that Watson is not a bigot?  It's a shame that he's your hero.

[Florestan]

He composed 7 sonatas for piano.

What are the opus numbers for the other four?

[Bulldog]

Wikipedia lists them as following:

Op. 6, Piano Sonata No. 1 in E major (1826)
Op. 105, Piano Sonata No. 2 in G minor (1821)
Op. 106, Piano Sonata No. 3 in B-flat major (1827)

So apparently they were composed at 17, 12 and 18 years respectively.

He wrote four others - no opus numbers and composed in 1820.

[Florestan]

He wrote four others - no opus numbers and composed in 1820.

Thank you. Very early works, then. Were they recorded, I wonder?

[jlaurson]

Happy Birthday, Mendelssohn![/b]

Little Essay on the Composer for his Birthday. (And recording recommendations, too, of course.)

Felix Mendelssohn B.

Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy was born today, 200 years ago, in Hamburg, to Abraham Mendelssohn and Lea Salomon, grandson to Moses Mendelssohn, the famous philosopher, scholar, and model for Lessing's "Nathan the Wise". Felix' father, who converted to Lutheranism for convenience' sake ("If you don't believe in any one Religion as the right one, why burden your children with Judaism"), and added "Bartholdy" to the family name.

....

[Bulldog]

Thank you. Very early works, then. Were they recorded, I wonder?

A Roberto Prosseda recorded them for Decca.  I thought that Chiu might have for Harmonia Mundi, but I can't find any listing for it.

[knight66]

ah, well. Let's talk Mendelssohn, rather than turn this into a Diner topic.

Exactly so, thanks Herman. I also see some here struggling to discuss Mendelssohn around the off-topic interjections. These were started in a barefaced way too by our self proclaimed racist troll.

Josquin, here is the position. Any further leading up the garden path towards racist comments will be deleted. It hardly needs to be spelt out, but for clarity; explicitly racist comments will be deleted also. Finally; posts will not be amended they will be deleted in their entirety, along with any that quote the offending remarks.

Posters who struggle in a well meaning way with Josquin's remarks, please instead report the posts.

Now, Mendelssohn; since Saul is no longer present, we really oughht to be able to discuss him in a pleasant and interesting way....for once. I hope you can find that way to divert us back onto the topic.

Cheers,

Knight

[DavidW]

I find Mendelssohn's chamber works to be serious, deep works, especially the string quintets and quartets.  His choral works are also deep.  It's unfortunate for him that his image is associated with his popular works which are on the exuberant side, and many people don't appreciate the full emotional range seen across his entire repertoire.  It would be like judging Haydn solely on the basis of his Surprise symphony... oh wait that happens.

[haydnguy]

I believe Mendelssohn's place in musical history is well secured.