Mravinsky Edition Brilliant Classics, some questions and observations

[donaldopato]

I am not sure how to really phrase this but just to come out and say I am baffled by many of the performances in the Brilliant Classics Mravinsky Edition set I just bought. I know Mravinksy's artistry from the incredible Tchaikovsky 4-6 and his Shostakovich 10th and 8th (on Erato and Philips), but the level of performance in these live recordings is quite poor in many respects.

I expected the "unique" Russian brass sound, the tubercular Russian audiences and certainly understand these were live recordings. However, the set is riddled with intonation problems, rough playing and ensemble issues. I thought the Leningrad Philharmonic was a better orchestra than this. It sure was in the 1960 Tchaikovsky 4-6.

One thing that set my teeth ajar was the odd Shostakovich 5th. The opening of the finale was taken at breakneck, almost absurd speed. However, the central part of the movement was incredible with the tension building up to the coda absolutely breathtaking. Yet, all was absolutely ruined by out of tune timpani "fanfares" that follow.

The Bartok Concerto for Orchestra is good, but he seems to bungle the very ending, the rhythm of the final figure is so different than I am used to hearing.

The live Tchaikovsky 5th has a lot of the incendiary power of the DG recordings. But the brass in the finale seem to be doing their own thing and are more blatty and overpowering than ever. The Debussy is ok, but the delicate percussion, especially the antique cymbals seem more like clanging metal plates.

I am not trying to be silly, help me, what am I missing? I have treasured the recordings I first listed by Mravinsky and find the set a fascinating look into his career. But was the Leningrad Orchestra that inconsistent?

If this is not the proper place for this discussion, please move me!

[eyeresist]

My own experience (with recordings) is that the Leningrad's reputation as a great orchestra is largely mythical. They could, however, whip up some impressive raw power.

[Drasko]

From my experience Leningrad Philharmonic was no more or less prone to cracked notes, pitch slips, or rough patches of orchestral coordination than any other orchestra of their stature when caught live on tape. Diference is that Mravinsky refused to do any studio recordings (like those Tchaikovsky on DG) after 1961 so vast majority of their discography are recordings of concerts: live, single take, no patching sessions.

I'm not familiar with Brilliant box, could be that they contain even rougher batch than usual, those shoud be mostly radio broadcast tapes which means probably even cruder recording quality than Melodiya's. 

[Renfield]

I'm not familiar with Brilliant box, could be that they contain even rougher batch than usual, those shoud be mostly radio broadcast tapes which means probably even cruder recording quality than Melodiya's. 

That. Maybe the sound, which is indeed quite harsh, is doing some of the "damage".

[Turner]

The release from Leningrad Classics or Elatus of Beethoven symphonies is very far from the much more polished and often superb DG or Melodiya-Denon stereo releases. Still, it is somewhat interesting for the interpretation, though. As far as I remember, his mono Bruckner 8 is an example of a better coordinated, early recording, whereas the later Shosty 15 has some coordination faults.



http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Apr03/Beethoven57_Mravinsky.htm

[Delicious Manager]

Previous answers have already covered some of the bases for the reasons for your observations. Mravinsky made very few studio recordings and so nearly all of what we have is warts-and-all live performances. For some reason (if you look at the recording dates), many of these were made during the bitterly cold winter months. I have no first-hand knowledge of the efficiency of the heating in 1940s to 1960s concert halls in Leningrad, but I suspect the musicians were performing in less-than-perfect conditions. As great as an orchestra as it was (and still is), the Leningrad Phil was comprised of normal human beings who could make mistakes in the heat of a live performance (perhaps with cold instruments and hands).

I urge you to seek out the series of live recordings captured of Mravinsky and the Leningrad PO at the 1978 Wiener Festwochen. Performances include Brahms 2, Schubert Unfinished, Shostakovich 5 (searingly intense), Tchaikovsky 5 and Weber's Oberon Overture. Wonderful stuff!

[Karl Henning]

For some reason (if you look at the recording dates), many of these were made during the bitterly cold winter months.

Well, the orchestra would have the summer off.

And in St Petersburg, they say the year consists of nine months of winter, and three months of waiting for summer.

[North Star]

And in St Petersburg, they say the year consists of nine months of winter, and three months of waiting for summer.

Winter (all nine months of it ) is great, apart from when you're out photographing or doing something else, and a) your bare hands freeze b) there's snow inside your boots.

[Florestan]

And in St Petersburg, they say the year consists of nine months of winter, and three months of waiting for summer.

That´s piece of cake. There is a remote, desolate yet inhabited alpine region near Grenoble, France where they say that the year consists of dix mois d´hiver, deux mois d´enfer... if you´ll excuse my French. 

[Delicious Manager]

Well, the orchestra would have the summer off.

And in St Petersburg, they say the year consists of nine months of winter, and three months of waiting for summer.

That's not quite fair, as the five months May to September can be very pleasant for a city of St Petersburg's northerly latitude. While orchestra would normally have July and August off, I have seen few live performances dated outside the period November-January.

[Karl Henning]

Aye, I remember sauntering through the White Nights very well.  It is a magical time.

[North Star]

Aye, I remember sauntering through the White Nights very well.  It is a magical time.

White Nights are all very well and good if you are too far south for the Midnight Sun. 

That´s piece of cake. There is a remote, desolate yet inhabited alpine region near Grenoble, France where they say that the year consists of dix mois d´hiver, deux mois d´enfer... if you´ll excuse my French. 

In 19th Century and earlier France, and Russia and probably many other countries, the peasants would fall into a semi hibernation for the winter.
http://qi.com/infocloud/hibernation
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/opinion/25robb.html

[Florestan]

In 19th Century and earlier France, and Russia and probably many other countries, the peasants would fall into a semi hibernation for the winter.
http://qi.com/infocloud/hibernation
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/opinion/25robb.html